As a Canadian it makes me angry that our tithing money went to subsidize BYU students. There was plenty of need in the area our ward was in and most members lived on low incomes. Building church universities around the world might not be practical but they could have offered scholarships to students in need in the wards and branches from which the tithing was collected.
I agree. My parents didn't have degrees and didn't have reliable income. Yet they still always paid their tithing, and I don't think it's fair that it's going to byu. They probably don't care though because they are so brainwashed.
Cradle Catholic and currently in the midst of a faith crisis. Same. Obsessed. (Also worked for the Catholic church for 15 years as director of youth ministry)
I always love when we have Gerardo on; not as aggressive as many panelists when taking the time to speak (i feel it, as someone who always ends up in the same problem), but when he does it might as well be to start with the words, "I have receipts." Then he just brings this highly detailed account with supporting documentation showing why what he's saying is true, the extent to which the lie he's addressing is false, etc.
Elder Bednar performed my sister’s sealing and his remarks and attitude were so off putting to me that I never went back to the temple. So, thanks Elder B!
Yeah, I've been to too many sealings where old fellows are showing off and come across as shallow. As if being older equals being wiser. Very off-putting.
During my faith crisis, Bednar came to my city. I hoped he would help my faith, but he did the opposite. People asked him questions and he told people to read/pray (assuming they hadn't already tried that) instead of answering their questions, quite a few times. Maybe he thought Q&A meant "question and assume". There may have been a hint of condescending impatience in there as well.
As a person who’s home ward has a temple announced in their city, the wards have continually been combined, declined in activity, and at many times held 3 wards in one building. A temple is the last ditch rallying cry for its dwindling membership.
That bit where he talks about the temple ceremony and rooms, and what the endowment ceremony represents is literally more information than I was given as a member preparing to go through the temple for the first time.
Yes. The build up and hype that members get about the temple before they actually go through it is nearly completely devoid of any details or concrete information. Instead, all you get is adjectives, like "special", "sacred", "sublime", "inspirational", "transcendent", "illuminating", "life-changing" and so on. Naturally, the hype creates expectations that tend to be based on whatever the listener associates with such adjectives, according to the listener's imagination and experience. In some form or another, the expectations are that the temple experience will absolutely raise the participant's spirituality, wisdom and life-path choices to a much higher level, in effect resulting in an ascension to a higher plane of consciousness. That is the expectation. The reality: (1) Lockers for your belongings because there are thieves in the temple from time to time; (2) Rushing into a small cold space to have olive oil dabbed here and there on your body by a stranger who mumbles some magic words about your loins and navel and stuff; (3) Going to a booth to get your super-sacred and secret "new name" (which just happens to be the exact same new name (usually a boring biblical name) given to everyone else on that day (one name for all females and another name for all males); (4) Being dressed up in an all-white costume that looks super cultish, creepy and freaky, consisting of white slippers, socks, possibly a jumpsuit or suit or dress, robes and sashes and a floppy hat that looks like a non-waterproof shower cap...and a green apron with a fig leaf design; (5) practicing goofy handshakes and memorizing the names of the handshakes as though your eternal fate depends on knowing the handshakes and their names at a later "testing" time; and (6) Standing around an altar in a group and chanting while raising arms and dropping arms repeatedly, in a scene that could be from a Victorian era ghost movie or a creepy Stephen King movie.... After all that busywork, you then rush out to make room for "the next session". On the way out, you have to be sure to smile on cue to your companions and say something like "I really felt the spirit in this session" (kind of like turning to your neighbor as the naked emperor walks by and saying something like "I really like how that platinum fleur de lis design accentuates the ethereal purple gossamer sleeve fabric and the diaphonous collars.") Meanwhile, in your heart of hearts, you feel troubled because not only was there no appreciable ascension to a higher state of spirituality and consciousness, you feel like you're actually going the opposite direction because you're having to lie to yourself about what you just experienced in order to avoid examining the doubts that it raises about the legitimacy of your religion.
I specifically asked, when I was getting my recommend, if there would be an opportunity to ask questions before or after the endowment, and was told yes, there would be an opportunity for that after the session. Which there wasn't. You're not supposed to talk in the Celestial room, and the people working in the dressing rooms are busy and there's no privacy there anyway, and then you leave and you're not supposed to talk about the temple outside. I did "feel the spirit" in the Celestial room twice. Once, when I had my first endowment (felt nothing during the ceremony itself, except confused). I think that was because I was being welcomed there by the people I loved who had come with me. Once, my very last day at the temple, when after a year of intense prayer and study during which I felt nothing except discouragement, I finally gave up and told God I was leaving the church. I felt this overwhelming peace and certainty that I was doing the right thing (the exact feeling I'd been trying to find when praying for confirmation that the church was true). Best decision I ever made. Also, I was totally disappointed about the "new name." When I was a kid, I thought that I was going to have my premortal name restored to me (hahaha!) so it would be unique. When I was older, I knew that I wouldn't, but I still figured I would get my own name that was chosen specially for me, even if it wasn't completely unique to me. How disappointing to learn that you just get a name off a list, and everyone who goes on the same day gets the same one, so my mom, my aunts, my cousin, and my roommate all know my "secret" name. Also, the name they gave me was ugly. :(
Bednar visited my mission once. He struck me as a very smug individual. He asked us to read some church material to prepare for his arrival. What material exactly? General conference talks given by HIM. Someone asked him what role his wife and kids played in his apostolic calling. He answered by saying they were a “good mirror for showing me how much progress I made in the gospel.” He’s so arrogant.
If Bednar had any real interest in honesty, he would describe Mormon membership numbers something like this: The church has on its roles 16.8 million members. However, we estimate that only 3.3 million members are active in that they regularly attend church services and approximately 1.5 million members pay tithing regularly. The church is working hard to bring inactive members back into full activity in the church, but this is a real challenge given the increasingly secular world, the vast amount of information concerning Mormonism's history available on the internet and other sources and the problems the church has had with truthfully disclosing various aspects of its history which have had an adverse impact on the testimonies of many members. The church is committed to being more honest about its history and other areas that are problematic for the church. .... Fat chance. If only pigs could fly.
Nope…instead, the church is like the soldier from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It looks at its hemorrhaging membership and says “its just a flesh wound”!
Those who believe that the numbers presented by the church as “total membership” represent actual butts in pews have most likely never been to church outside the US. I served in Chile and literally every ward had 500-600 people on the ward roster and the average Sunday attendance was 60-80 people…in the summer. In the winter it was more like 40-50. Even if activity levels are way higher in the US, outside the US, especially in the poorer latin american, african and asian countries, the activity rates are abysmal. Its not opinion, it is reality. And those people don’t even know the ugly realities of church history because there are not many resources available to them. Europe has the same problems, but mainly due to secularism. Every ward I’ve lived in here in the US almost never has convert baptisms. Like ever. Except for the spanish speaking wards I was in…but with the same problems as mentioned before…they get baptized, come for a little, and don’t come back. The church gets to count a bean! Yeah!
@@sasquatl Why would you find it hard to believe that "< 1/3 of members are active"? Have you even checked your own ward/stake records? Do you have any experience living in branches/wards/stakes outside of the areas that have the largest concentrations of Mormons? There are many places where not even half of the members on record are active. Most "converts" go inactive not long after baptism. (That's well known among Mormons I know who live in areas that the heartland Mormons tend to refer to as "the mission field"...and I'm pretty sure it also holds in Utah, Idaho and Arizona as well. ) I mean, if you have any solid data that you can show to support your position that it is "hard to believe", please do contribute. Just saying that something is "hard to believe" doesn't advance knowledge in any way. As for "never Mormons", it's obviously a context-appropriate term. For a discussion community that includes (among others) (a) believing Mormons, (b) questioning Mormons, (c) ex-Mormons and (d) people who have never been Mormons but who are interested in the topic of Mormon beliefs, history, etc., please note that for category (d) the term "never Mormons" is a convenient shorthand term for distinguishing category (d) from the other categories. The term "non-Mormon" could possibly also be used, but it is more ambiguous as it could also refer to ex-Mormons. As for "never JW"...absolutely! If you become interested in joining a discussion community that focuses on all things related to JWs, you may find it helpful or even necessary to identify yourself as a "never JW" in order to avoid having to explain multiple times that you are a "person who has never been a member of the JW organization but are participating in the discussion community because you are nonetheless interested in or impacted by the JW organization."
I had a bad temple experience as well. I definitely wanted to leave the temple during my endowment when they asked if anyone wanted to leave, but my mom was on one side, my dad was on the other side. and i thought, we just drove 4 hours to get here, and if I walk out, I'm not going to be able to go on my mission in a week. During the annointing, the lady said the wrong words, and the lady next to her was correcting her, and I was like, what the hell is going on right now???
I feel so validated when people talk about not enjoying the temple. Especially not talking about it as a believing member but being more open about it after leaving. My eyes were wide open the whole time I was getting endowed. The word cult went through my mind so many times. And I thought it was MY fault! I wasn’t prepared enough!
As a former convert, the consequences of leaving the church were moot. I don’t mind not serving a mission, I don’t mind not paying tithing, fast offerings, sharing the bs this doctrine is. One thing I am grateful to the church is that it finally opened my eyes to the fraud that all religions are, and pushed me out of that victim mentality of a believer.
Thank you for featuring Elder Bednar. I dislike his smugness greatly! Should make a perfect future president of The Church. What I think gets me the most is how he treats his wife. He’s an inspiration to make me realize how blessed 🙏 I am to be an independent woman who loves coffee, tank tops, foul language and an occasional toke. This should be fun to watch on a Friday night!
@@scottbrandon6244 Thanks, yes I know. My point is that by the time it’s his turn he will be quite old. That is a problem that all the leaders are extremely old. We have had prophets who suffer from complete dementia. That was what I meant. Will make a fine future president; meaning the future
@@dianethulin1700 I was looking at a general conference talk by Uchtdorf the other day. He had only been an apostle for six months. He was around 62 but looked very young for his age. I was saying to myself that would be a great age to become President. And younger members can relate to a youthful looking leader.
Imagine if that church built and maintained one homeless shelter, one clinic, one trade school/community college and/or one daycare for every temple built. Imagine if they actually donated 10% to charity every year...
Yes. With all of the resources available, it's hard to imagine that, at a minimum, if the church was lead by benevolent leaders concerned about improving the lives of members, it wouldn't engage heavily in teaching young members very practical life skills and arts (e.g. in areas like agriculture, plumbing, carpentry, weaving, shoe-making, home-building, electrical work, water purification, nutrition, drawing, painting, printing, music, etc....) They could do this in addition to managing homeless shelters, health clinics and so on. It's mind boggling how much they go out of their way to NOT empower individual members in any practical way.
But instead they chose to build America’s largest shopping mall. Given that they believe that when Jesus comes again he will ask for an accounting of what they have done, it truly beggars belief that this is somehow justified. Jesus might ask “so what exactly did you do with all of that tithing? Build orphanges for dying aids babies in Thailand?”, “ummm, no…we went with another shopping mall…”…
My mind nearly exploded when I was still in and I realized that every non-lds church around me has a homeless shelter or food kitchen or some real, physical resource at their building helping our local community on-the-ground with no strings attached. I've lived all over the world and never seen a single LDS meetinghouse with a homeless or women's shelter, soup kitchen, etc.
When I told my sons, who are not LDS, that I was going to serve a mission in the temple, one son asked me how much the church would pay me for that. When I said it wasn't paying anything, they gawked !! lol '' So you are giving them two years of your time, AND you are paying THEM for the privilege????
For most missionaries, giving two years of your time AND paying for the privilege.....AND being treated like a slave, monitored 24/7 by an assigned "companion" who is commanded to snitch on you if you ever break any of the hundreds of insane rules you are forced to comply with. What a deal!!!
There is so much need in the world.Children dying of starvation,people struggling to make ends meet.Why can’t some of that money be given to help in the world.
The breakdown & clarification of the church’s humanitarianism donations is worth a tiktok/reel/quickvid. I can’t tell you how many members (myself included before I left) think the church is shoveling money to humanitarian efforts. Members need to see the reality.
The church and it’s leaders should be at least as truthful, forthright, and complete in every utterance as every member is expected to be in a temple recommend interview. Anything less is hypocrisy and screams “this is a cult!” As the song teaches “do what is right, let the consequence follow”, they need to set the example or stop talking!
What a great episode. Anytime RFM can comment on Elder Bednar is an event worth listening to. RFM "has Bendnar's number" and says so much in a few words and tone of voice.
Elder Bednar has aged rapidly, I remember when he was touted as a young apostle and I’m still in my 20s. Either the apostles age faster due to a deal with the devil or what passes as a young apostle is embarrassingly old.
@@jeffwilson4693 Yipes! The older I get the younger 70 seems. Boyfriend turning 66 soon and me 60 this year I did make it a point to observe Elder Bednar after reading these comments about his appearance. In my limited experience working with cancer patients as well as patients who have post surgical speech therapy it seems there’s more than just some grey hair. His speech seemed a little shaky but he did have vigor although it was muted slightly. The give away to my mind was RFM noting how he was reading. We have seen him speak holding onto that kid instead of cue cards. For some reason he was unprepared to give that talk, in my opinion
So funny that the best thing they can say about women in the church is the relief society is really old. Kept laughing about that all through watching this episode.
My kids will never know what its like to have shame instilled in them the way Bednar did to that boy. Mistakes are about learning. They will struggle to love themselves at times, but I will not make it harder for them.
The boy probably didn't understand much about what was going on in terms of Bednar's "teaching moment", but probably felt like it was personal and all about him and his "sins", feeling like the Apostle was aware of it all and was warning him that he was on the path to destruction. Crying from fear, shame and nervousness. Of course Bednar didn't even need the boy as a prop and his "teaching moment" probably would have been more effective if Bednar had just acted out the motions by himself. But making things cringy and less clear is what "inspired" "general authorities" are for, right?
My family was completely destroyed when we joined the church. My sister who is still a TBM says “well that’s not how it was supposed to be!” oh well that’s wonderful thanks for that TBM sister!!!! That makes all the difference in the world !!!!not.
My mom's ward, in São Paulo, keeps getting emptier and emptier. Today I went there, and the same people who were there 5 years ago are still there, but there's almost no new people.
John on mass shootings at 43:06. He is asking about the church response. However I would also like to hear from John and other PhDs in clinical psychology in the Mormon Stories community as to what they think the source of the problem is and any solutions.
I agree with Jon and the other participant’s that a close examination of the LDS church’s investments lobbying efforts will show you the “fruits” of the LDS church. 1) Buy and build investment funds with tax free donations. 2) Lobby against LGBT human rights.
You briefly spoke about being a History Major. When I went to BYUI, as a history major, the teachers and students would often joke abt how no one from our dept was allowed to give a devotional talk bc the GA were too afraid. Had an amazing badass female professor who was very greatful when We’d call all my teachers ‘Professor’ not Sister/Brother. Her published papers would constantly get eyebrow raises from the higher ups lol
I have never been able to figure out what is so sacred about anything done in the Temple. I was so disappointed to find out that my Temple name was not special to me but everyone that session had the same one. A funny self story is when we used to go to DC Temple as a ward once a month, I told my friend, the Bishop’s wife, that I didn’t like going as I always got a terrible headache. She then reached over and loosened my veil. No more headaches.😂
And needing to pay.At tithing is what makes us able to go to the Temple.What about those who are worthy,but not able to pay tithing,no recommend.So basically we need to pay our way to Heaven.So glad I have learned that.
Keeping sacred ordinances essential to eternal well-being behind a paywall? Yes, that's the business model. And they don't even teach the "principle of tithing" as it was originally outlined in their scriptures, i.e. as a percentage of one's "increase". If you raise chickens and you were blessed with a very fertile bunch of chickens that increased your flock from 100 to 200, your increase would be 100 chickens (minus whatever additional work and feed went into keeping it going) and you would owe Mormon god 10 chickens. The greedy leaders, however, want you to think that exchanging your time and labor for the market value of your time and labor (a wage) is an increase, when it's not. All you have done is given to someone else your time and labor in exchange for the monetary value of that time an labor. There is no net increase for you. In terms of tithing "principles" it would make more sense to pay tithing only on gifts received, rather than wages earned. But the church is more in the business of accumulating wealth for the leaders to play around with than it is in pursuing any kind of doctrinal or logical consistency. I guess they're quite consistent with the "give us your money and maybe god will help you out later on" messaging.
I try not to judge people on their mannerisms and tone of voice. Because I'm neurodiverse, it's hard for me not to be overly sensitive and overwhelmed at how robotic, detatched, patronizing and ego-centric Bednar seems. I left the church because of this albeist flavor from the GA's, before I even researched real church history. Their tones and personalities are so off-putting to me. I couldn't let my children look to leaders/speakers who deliver like that. There's not many solid, truthful, good things coming out of their mouths. Yikes!
It's weird. But every time I see Bednar's name, the phrase "Bednar and broomsticks" pops into my head. It's like some kind of message from the ether, but I can't decipher its meaning yet.
There was young adults event I watched hosted by Elder Bednar. A man who appeared rather young had just lost wife to an illness. I was surprised by Elder Bednar's response to the widower because it did not seem very sympathetic.
Oh man, I had never seen that video of Elder Bednar with the little boy before. That brought back so many things for me. Granted my faith transition is recent and ongoing so it's all a little tender. I met Elder Bednar privately when I was about that little boys age. It was just my family in the room with him and he was so scary to me. In the MTC my companion and I were invited to have Christmas dinner with him and I once again had a bad experience. Ive met several apostles and most have been kind but Elder Bednar still scares me.
🤔Reflecting on being a strong believer, once upon a time, and now, years out of the church, it is easy to see all the dishonesty. It’s sad 😞 to see how these kind of misleading messages often pull vulnerable people in, divide families, provide a false foundation of truth, and fail to validate real truth.
John and temples purpose at 53:45. Boundary maintenance may also refer to a subculture of insiders and outsiders. There is a "club" of people who are in the know about the temple, and many members who have never attended. I could never get a straight answer as to what the expectations were before I went except bring money for clothing. The issues of who gets the recommend is another issue. It is not just about tithing, but bishops can deny temple access if the recommend interview questions are not answered correctly. Then they have to discuss it and reschedule an interview at a later date. If a member was inactive that was another reason to deny a recommend.
The kid at 30:24. He was clearly uncomfortable. However I noticed adults in the audience just smiling away through the whole exercise. There is another video series I saw which is geared toward YSA. It too is hosted by Elder Bednar. Some of the material there looked like it made some class members uncomfortable.
I agree. The boy was clearly uncomfortable from the very beginning. Elder Bednar was oblivious to how the boy was feeling. It went on and on. I’ve seen this clip several times and it makes me uncomfortable and angry every time I watch it. I mean, let the kid go already!
@@littlebee5048 I’m not so sure Bednar was oblivious to the child being uncomfortable. In fact I wonder if he gets off a little at this display of power
"Adults in the audience just smiling away". Hey, that's exactly what they're supposed to do. It wouldn't be much of a cult if they started behaving like people with minds of their own in the presence of one of their top leader guys. Sounds like you're not the kind of team player who can appreciate the more subtle requirements of cult membership. Shame on you! ;o)
It would be interesting for MS to do a poll and ask former members of the church how many of their family are no longer active but have not withdrawn their membership. I would love to see a number on that.
I have always felt sorry for Sister Bednar. She seems to be in fear of saying or doing the wrong thing.Like a child who is going to be punished for a naughty deed.
Prophets continuing since Joseph Smith at 56:39. True, but there were three year gaps between each subsequent prophet after JS died. There was a belief held by some leaders early in the church that JS would return some day. Plus the succession was not figured out. So it was not continual succession like today. The early church had no official President on a continual basis. So there was a three gap between JS and BY; a three year gap between BY and John Taylor; and a two year gap between Taylor and Woodruff. No gap occurs thereafter.
You could hardly blame those reporters for being hypnotized when Elder Bednar's eyeballs started spinning in circles. It was either that or running for the exits thinking he would explode.
It's cult the luciferian powers same ones they get by putting on green apron represents his power aka lucifer. Newnamenoah has videos prove the rituals
Wow that does make a good euphemism 🤣 that sounds straight out of a romance novel: she was awed by his manhood. The Italians were mesmerized by his priesthood 🤣 nice
I’m sorry I just can’t not laugh. “By my estimates there are about 3-4 active Mormon’s in the church”. I know 3-4 million was what was meant but still, made me laugh. Thanks for all the effort put into this podcast and videos!! 💜
Yeah I think the LDS Corp doesn't just teach us to look outside for our beliefs, but also to actively shush our inner selves and intuition to the point of not even knowing who we really are. There's constant dissonance and shame.
Not sure if I am hyper sensitive but no man should ever be allowed to hold my child like that. It seems so intrusive and an invasion of privacy. Imagine if that was a young woman he was holding on to like that. Not ok
The funny thing is that he probably thought he was acting as a "master teacher" in that moment, illustrating a concept with a memorable skit (using the poor boy as a prop). But in reality, it was super cringe and creepy. He could have taken the boy's question and just acted it out by himself, using himself as the example, instead of bringing the boy out of the audience and traumatizing the boy. One thing that is not in short supply among the Mormon leaders is massive egos. Bednar probably also thought that the boy would go through life cherishing the memory of how he was "touched by an Apostle of the Lard".
The church taught me to not trust myself and my own intuition and that I was a human and the Book of Mormon teaches that “The natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever…” This taught me that my own intuition was wrong and evil and that I needed to fully trust in the leaders of the church to tell me what was right and wrong because I was incapable to do that because I am human and an enemy to God.
Denominational churches typically have a headquarters, parishes have similar beliefs, and pastors/priests go to theological school which is often a graduate degree. Denominational churches are typically Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Episcopal. Evangelical churches in the US are typically non-denominational, any charismatic person with a Bible can start one, no education required. When Mormons say they are the 4th largest denomination in the US, that might be the case as that wording excludes all the evangelicals.
Wow! I'm a member of the LDS Church from the Philippines! At first I was so hesitant to liked this video cause I only subscribed to channels that Christ's church I mean the international youtube channel of the Church so that I cannot be confused about what the podcast/random type of video says, anyway thanks for the positive comments it made myself to be interested woth this
This is a superlative episode y’all have a good chemistry with RFM in the room everybody has upped their game and RFM’s jokes and quips are right on target
Just a thought..with all the millions of dollars being donated by both the church and celebrities, why are people still living below the poverty line? To where is the money donated? Who is it helping?
Judging from all of the very obvious and public nepotism that is evident in everything from which men become the top leaders to which people get really nice sinecures (paid positions) in church-controlled organizations (including universities, among other things), there is probably a whole lot more of that going on with regard to companies and service providers that routinely contract with the church for various things (possibly including temple-building projects and so on), with the net result that tithepayer-contributed funds can, via contracts, eventually find their way into the private pockets of people/shareholders of companies that the church "prefers" to do business with. If it turns out that many of those private pockets belong to people who have close connections to church leaders, I would not be surprised at all.
Who brought the kid over the line and held him over the line. Bednar was acting like an evil spirit himself. The little kid in this instance was powerless. Nobody who is ever in that situation is ever powerless. You always have your agency.
Oh, those wonderful temples! Soon, just like a certain global coffee shop franchise, Mormon temples will be so ubiquitous that you'll never have to travel more than 15 minutes to get your "sacred spice necrodunkaccino" or your "hand-shakerato latte". You can give it to me through the veil inside or through the drive-thru veil when I'm in a hurry. Thanks for the convenience. Be sure to keep your "frequent-proxy" card handy to win free prizes. Any temple customer who does the same work for the same dead person 5 times is eligible to enter a drawing for a free pair of white temple socks! But, seriously, this discussion was so on point with regard to the apparent nuttiness of the church's massive temple building expansion at a time when (1) the number of temple goers appears to be declining overall and (2) there likely are very few additional records of names of dead people to even do dead people ordinances for. (From what I've heard on numerous occasions, recycling of names of dead people is commonplace so that visitors to the temple will have something to do, even though there are no new records of dead people names available. ) In addition to the discussion of the public relations/power projection imagery goals that the erection of hundreds of temples may accomplish (even though to outsiders, the temples probably just seem a bit creepy and weird), I can't help but wonder about a couple of other possible objectives that this big temple-building program may accomplish. (1) Who/What entities (including shareholders of corporate parties, and shareholders of corporate shareholders) are on the other side of all of the contracts that the church and church-controlled entities enter into in connection with all of the various aspects of temple building, from finding and brokering land acquisitions, deciding whose land to buy, hiring architects, sourcing materials, general contracting services, government relations work, etc.? One thing for certain is that a significant amount of tithepayer-derived money is moving from church owned and controlled accounts into private hands through all of the contracts and transactions that are inevitably involved in each temple project. Maybe this question is too cynical, but is it possible that to some degree the transfer of wealth from the church into private hands through temple-building projects is not simply incidental? (2) For what it's worth, 100s of new temples mean 100s of new real estate acquisitions in major urban areas, typically located in upscale areas. So the church is also inevitably building up a large real estate investment portfolio. (In urban areas of many countries the underlying land value at certain locations is often much greater than any value attached to the buildings sited on the land -- to the point that buildings are almost trivial components of the value of the real estate holding.)
It almost feels like his statements about the church not being a humanitarian organization and the implication being that the good works are actually PR expenses should challenge their tax exempt status
"for an old man I'm pretty strong." my kids are around that kids age. and they have a similar haircut and every.single.mama.instinct was screaming at me to get that child to safety. (now, it would still scream out to me if it wasn't SO EASY to picture my child in that moment)
It makes GREAT sense! 100 temples secures temple oaths of obedience AND their wealth for life, AND those governments officials temple sworn to uphold their theocracy....global government under pressure. Nelson. It's power international financial ties.
Announcing temples, and acquiring land is a tax accounting strategy for the LDS 4th mission - maintain tax exempt status. But by all means don't pay janitors or clergy, or quadruple the relief society budget, etc
Fun fact, a long time ago the Relief Society had its own building. The LDS church in Elba, Idaho has a brick Relief Society building across the street, the words "Relief Society" are in stone on the front of it. I don't know if the LDS church still owns it, the Relief Society doesn't meet there. I have been to craft bazaars held in the building.
Catholics claim one billion members, but everybody knows they are not all active. So, I don't think that it's unfair that the church claims almost 17 million members, with 3-4 million active members is actually a pretty good and high activity rate still. As time goes by, I will expect the activity rate to drop down to 10% or less, this will be similar to other churches' activity rates.
@2:42:00 BYU isn't about being a good school, it's the church's perpetual motion engine. Bring people to the church. Bring the kids to BYU. Kids stay in the church and get jobs with more money. More money means more tithing. Repeat.
In addition, the church still practices polygamy by supporting doctrines which uphold and enable polygamy: a latent belief in Adam-God and the Proclamation on the Family. The whole theology is based on the hetero sex act, and in God being a big super-man in the sky, after the image of Brigham Young.
I have to disagree with the idea that if you don't have anything to hide, then speaking with the press shouldn't be a problem. Here's a real-life example: a reporter asked a relative of mine, a politician, for a comment on something. He declined. She asked why. He replied, "Because I know who you are, and I don't trust you." She said, "If you don't give me a statement, I will make one up for you." Bias in be reporting is it well-known. They will edit, exclude necessary context, etc. Also, I took mandatory anti-harassment training for my first job over two decades ago. Avoiding unnecessary touch is not new. Bednar's demonstration seems painfully out of touch.
"The race and the priesthood needs an apostle to stand up and blatantly say 'We were wrong'" I'm not really sure how this will help when the founding scripture is one long story explaining that the existence of 'dark skinned' Native Americans is due to a curse from God. The idea that non-white skin color is punishment for wickedness is a central theme of the Book of Mormon (and this idea is not limited to the BoM but exists in other LDS scripture). So what would it even mean for an apostle to say 'We were wrong'? Would they be saying that the BoM is fiction? I don't know how the church escapes from this corner they are painted into.
The way that blacks have been treated really rankles me! As a child and teen I would ask about this and was told by my church leaders to pray that the prophet would get a revelation to give blacks the priesthood. They put it on God like there’s nothing more we can do 🤷♀️ When I would try to get friends to go to youth activities it was always “ Aren’t Mormons racist?” And I’m defending those racist assholes because I think this is how God wants it! This really makes me so angry bc they were and are bigots
I can appreciate the sentiment about what the church leaders "should" do. At the same time, I'm always a bit befuddled by a certain line of thinking among post-Mormons, which in effect calls/demands/requests the leaders of the church to make changes (e.g. giving females the priesthood) that, if made by the leaders, would logically be the equivalent of acknowledging that the church has never been anything other than a man-made organization that has ZERO grounds for claiming to be led by God or Jesus or any other supreme being. Again, I appreciate the sentiment. And I guess the church could sort of function for some of its members as officially being an uninspired social club for perhaps a few more decades following the admission that throughout its entire history all of its past leaders have been less inspired and less led by God than a typical dollar store manager. And I guess for some people "having the priesthood" would feel good(?) even while knowing that it's an entirely fictional "priesthood" that has less meaning than holding the rank of "Daisy" or "Brownie" in the Girl Scouts. But for me, once you realize how bogus it is, it doesn't make much sense to essentially request or demand that the leaders pretend to get "revelations" in order to make changes that will make the church more popular. Of course a bogus church that doesn't pretend to be led by revelations from God can make changes anytime it wants. But unless it's a fun place, what's the point? I guess if they start spending some of that $100 billion hoard they could make it worthwhile. Turn the temples into health spas and fitness centers. Turn Stake Centers into Mormon-themed amusement parks, where having the "priesthood" gives you access to the best rides.
Temples at 52:39. I had a much better experience with temples. But at my height of activity I was doing 3-4 endowment sessions each Saturday and helping with family sealings work. There are people who don't believe it when they hear the endowment and initiatory changed over time. They only know recent ceremonies and were not around pre 1990 and pre 2005.
It sounds like you know your early church history. I have a question. I am seeing in my family history where family members have been baptized and had temple sealings in New York and Nauvoo. Then I see where they are again baptized by proxy in various temples years later. Also re baptized during the reformation. Was it thought their previous baptisms were canceled? I don’t know how to understand these records
Why on earth would the NAACP want to have anything to do with Mormonism? How much money did the Mormon church give the NAACP to buy their friendship? EDIT: In fact, a while back, when I saw in the news that the NAACP was willing to interact with the SLC based sect of Mormonism, I lost respect for the NAACP.
Why would he even say The Church is not a humanitarian organization after laying out his case that The Church is a humanitarian organization? Just so bizarre! And that’s nothing to brag about when what you’re doing is bragging about The Church!! I guess he’s not a dodo so I’m left to believe he’s stupid
I live in San Francisco and know if you are partnering with a church it’s going to be Glide Memorial. The Church most likely think they’re too pro-gay ( while loving all of gods children equally of course). Cecil Williams is not the smarmy type. Class act that man. I have encountered him over the years and think of him as living Christs example
I wonder if when church leaders talk about the “humanitarian efforts” such as bringing clean water to African villages, they actually mean that missionaries out there, paying THEM, working on behalf of the church to prey on impoverished people happen to take part in the efforts whilst on their missions. Meaning, it was less about the humanitarian efforts and the money spent and more about signing more people up to the church to pay you tithings and increase your profits.
Although I do not believe the individuals that are giving their service do so for what is in it for themselves, but the church as an organization does..They pay where they want to make change "from the outside in".
Also...I can't help but feel the church is trying to get out in front of the Vallow Daybell murder trials especially since "Under The Banner of God" coming out.
I burst into tears for caller Adrianne who is gay but still married and clearly has several children. Listening audio-only so I did not understand the child-being-held clip, but I didn't need to see Adrianne to get the whole story. My heart aches for her.
So creepy to see Bednar jimmy-up on the kid! Bednar is the one stepping over the line! And he probably felt intimidated by the power differential. Women know what this is like. And the adults think it’s special he was selected to go up there. Horrible crossing of boundaries asking him to really press back on him physically. And he didn’t even know his name!
Wow! You got me thinking about how certain and many churches outside of Mormanism are allowed to discriminate against women and LGBQT! I think of the Catholic church….wake up people! I have done some critical thinking because of you videos. Bravo! God bless you and may God’s grace be upon you ❤️🙏
No. Holland would always be the number one pick because he has more enthusiasm. The problem is that he's still recovering from some injuries he sustained while trying to crawl over, under and around the Book of Mormon for the 8th time in 3 days. (Apparently it's some kind of workout routine for senior citizens that he hopes to market to LDS affiliated fitness centers.)
I thought Pathways also included Math and English? In many non English speaking countries missionaries still offer English classes even now. I saw ads in our local Stake here in the US for English classes for immigrants as well- another way to find converts.
Bednar didn't even know the kids name till he asked afterward, so not concentual. And the poor kid is crying! Dann how is that okay? If the acelestial room is a representation of out heavenly home it's no wonder Luucy rebelled and caused a ruckus.
The first time I went to the temple I thought the Celestial Room was going to be lush with plants and beauty like the Garden of Eden. Instead it reminded me of the lobby of a luxury hotel. Except not that interesting
Marriage at 54:39. Marriages in other churches are never eternal. The whole point is they are for time on earth only. In fact that is part of the vows made with the couple and pastor presiding. Evangelical and Catholic churches like to make this point of difference in LDS and other marriages, that theirs is for time of earth only. However I have seen two versions of temple marriages for LDS members. Most are married for time and eternity or sealed together. In some cases the wording if different and the marriage is for time on earth only. An example would be a woman marrying for a second time who is widowed. That second marriage is for time on earth only. There is a way around that but it may involve cancelling the first sealing to the dead husband.
the 'til death us do part' line is not a refutation of LDS sealing but was the standard wording for centuries not as a statement of limits but of a full life commitment. I understand that mormon men can be multiplely sealed to wives, but a woman can only be eternal sealed once.
Women in early church history used priesthood authority outside of temple ordinances and gave healing blessings - take a look at In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton
I am wondering whether the Lds church having a non profit status may get in trouble with the I RS with the leak about the 120 billion net worth, therefore the spending on new temples and/or "humanitarian spending to avoid being busted like Trump and loosing the non-profit status.
As an accountant we have to "get behind the figures" and communicate to management to make decisions. Then Bedar says he is an apostle, b******t. Especially from a very corporate church and successful at investments.
Let’s not forget that we went to the temple to get a curse. We were told by Lucifer, that If we do not live up to every covenant we make in the temple, we are in Lucifer’s power. Nice memory. This is where I think the church should be sued for manipulation and abuse.
I am NOT defending Rusty, but, older men to have a tendency to re-marry very quickly. My opinion of this is that men of Rusty's generation are used to be 'taken care of' and not having to 'fend for themselves,' so they look for another wife rather quickly. Also, I feel sorry for Mrs. Bednar. She always looks either miserable, or looks like she is trying to put on a happy face. I can't imagine being married to that man.
I just want to point out that the posted pic says "Mormon Apostle Unscripted" and yet I saw Bednar read a script throughout his press talk and even mocked for it in the discussion/chat. I think if we are going to call out the church for being dishonest we need to be more honest than this lest we be like unto the hypocrites. I love and appreciate you guys❣ I was transfixed on the analysis, so many smart ppls in hur, and I can't wait for part deux I hope my calling this out and still publicly adoring you all is not considered gaslighting, but perceived as genuine feels. À la prochaine!
I saw it as kinda an inside joke as we all know they would never ever address the national press club “unscripted”. But I totally see your point. They’re rarely “unscripted” anymore, particularly in front of nonmembers, what with the ubiquitousnesses of cameras. They’ve learned they create far too many problems without sticking to a script.
With regards to the members to church buildings, most buildings have multiple "wards" meet in one building. Not saying it adds up to 17 million, but still.
It's odd that plural marriage is spun to be a compliment to women, because in the eternal economy there are fewer righteous men. The idea of the lost boys, however, looms over men who don't make the cut. It hurts men and women, but perhaps women more.
I really don't mean to be hating on Bednar, but I just really do NOT like him in any way. Nothing about him is inspiring. I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but what the hell is he doing being an Apostle anyway?
When it comes to the shootings, I don't think "senseless" is a fair word to use. Like RFM says, they are a symptom. In a way, there is a sense to them and I can only suspect that a large portion of them could have been avoided with the right changes, like better mental health practices, more loving and accepting environments, less focus on perfection and living up to ideals, less prioritizing rules over people, etc. Those are all things that the church does not do well.
Didn’t get to watch live. However. Amongs the plethora of mis-characterised teachings and how they are applied (changed) today from decades past. Would like to address two points. Blessings. Hymn: “Count your many blessings!! Name them One By One”. Of course we have certainly in my youth taught paying tithing and serving attracts blessings. Goodness me “Prove Me Now Herewith, If I will not open the Windows of Heaven and pour out blessings you cannot contain”. A principle that has multiple application across church teachings. Secondly ‘Being like Jesus’! If Bednar was living an’Jesus Life’ he should like the Apostles of old be amongst the people without purse or script’! Not being paid $200,000.00 stipend. Enjoying the benefits of his office that ‘we’ don’t see. Yes, they work long hours, they travel a lot. So did Jesus. But unlike them he didn’t have billions of dollars behind him. Etc etc etc. He didn’t mention, I noted, the $2,000,000.00 that was paid to the ‘unexpected’ coupling of ‘organisations’. I always thought the LDS church was a ‘Church’. Not an organisation. So much more but my fingers hurt. Ask us questions! Just expect the nature of the question to be changed. Look forward to the next episode.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
As a Canadian it makes me angry that our tithing money went to subsidize BYU students. There was plenty of need in the area our ward was in and most members lived on low incomes. Building church universities around the world might not be practical but they could have offered scholarships to students in need in the wards and branches from which the tithing was collected.
I agree. My parents didn't have degrees and didn't have reliable income. Yet they still always paid their tithing, and I don't think it's fair that it's going to byu. They probably don't care though because they are so brainwashed.
Current agnostic atheist, grew up Catholic, have NOTHING to do with Mormonism at all in my life…but I’m obsessed with this channel. Great work!
L Ron Hubbard .....WAS A BLACK MAN
I am also agnostic, worked for the Catholic church 20 years. Heartsick that ALL CHURCHES are not march to progest those already born.
At least Mormons have inverted pentagram on SLC Temple not shying away they are evil
I am obsessed with this channel too, and I have NOTHING to do with Mormonism either. It’s just so interesting and well produced.
Cradle Catholic and currently in the midst of a faith crisis. Same. Obsessed.
(Also worked for the Catholic church for 15 years as director of youth ministry)
I always love when we have Gerardo on; not as aggressive as many panelists when taking the time to speak (i feel it, as someone who always ends up in the same problem), but when he does it might as well be to start with the words, "I have receipts." Then he just brings this highly detailed account with supporting documentation showing why what he's saying is true, the extent to which the lie he's addressing is false, etc.
Well put!
Yes!
Gerardo is so wise! I love hearing from him more. ❤️
Gerardo always has those receipts :)
Gerardo is my fave.
Elder Bednar performed my sister’s sealing and his remarks and attitude were so off putting to me that I never went back to the temple. So, thanks Elder B!
Good example of following your instincts! Good on you!
Yeah, I've been to too many sealings where old fellows are showing off and come across as shallow. As if being older equals being wiser. Very off-putting.
During my faith crisis, Bednar came to my city. I hoped he would help my faith, but he did the opposite. People asked him questions and he told people to read/pray (assuming they hadn't already tried that) instead of answering their questions, quite a few times. Maybe he thought Q&A meant "question and assume". There may have been a hint of condescending impatience in there as well.
As a person who’s home ward has a temple announced in their city, the wards have continually been combined, declined in activity, and at many times held 3 wards in one building. A temple is the last ditch rallying cry for its dwindling membership.
Will they put inverted pentagram on building warn free thinkers and Christians? SLC has or had one
That bit where he talks about the temple ceremony and rooms, and what the endowment ceremony represents is literally more information than I was given as a member preparing to go through the temple for the first time.
Yes. The build up and hype that members get about the temple before they actually go through it is nearly completely devoid of any details or concrete information. Instead, all you get is adjectives, like "special", "sacred", "sublime", "inspirational", "transcendent", "illuminating", "life-changing" and so on.
Naturally, the hype creates expectations that tend to be based on whatever the listener associates with such adjectives, according to the listener's imagination and experience. In some form or another, the expectations are that the temple experience will absolutely raise the participant's spirituality, wisdom and life-path choices to a much higher level, in effect resulting in an ascension to a higher plane of consciousness.
That is the expectation.
The reality: (1) Lockers for your belongings because there are thieves in the temple from time to time; (2) Rushing into a small cold space to have olive oil dabbed here and there on your body by a stranger who mumbles some magic words about your loins and navel and stuff; (3) Going to a booth to get your super-sacred and secret "new name" (which just happens to be the exact same new name (usually a boring biblical name) given to everyone else on that day (one name for all females and another name for all males); (4) Being dressed up in an all-white costume that looks super cultish, creepy and freaky, consisting of white slippers, socks, possibly a jumpsuit or suit or dress, robes and sashes and a floppy hat that looks like a non-waterproof shower cap...and a green apron with a fig leaf design; (5) practicing goofy handshakes and memorizing the names of the handshakes as though your eternal fate depends on knowing the handshakes and their names at a later "testing" time; and (6) Standing around an altar in a group and chanting while raising arms and dropping arms repeatedly, in a scene that could be from a Victorian era ghost movie or a creepy Stephen King movie....
After all that busywork, you then rush out to make room for "the next session". On the way out, you have to be sure to smile on cue to your companions and say something like "I really felt the spirit in this session" (kind of like turning to your neighbor as the naked emperor walks by and saying something like "I really like how that platinum fleur de lis design accentuates the ethereal purple gossamer sleeve fabric and the diaphonous collars.") Meanwhile, in your heart of hearts, you feel troubled because not only was there no appreciable ascension to a higher state of spirituality and consciousness, you feel like you're actually going the opposite direction because you're having to lie to yourself about what you just experienced in order to avoid examining the doubts that it raises about the legitimacy of your religion.
I specifically asked, when I was getting my recommend, if there would be an opportunity to ask questions before or after the endowment, and was told yes, there would be an opportunity for that after the session. Which there wasn't. You're not supposed to talk in the Celestial room, and the people working in the dressing rooms are busy and there's no privacy there anyway, and then you leave and you're not supposed to talk about the temple outside.
I did "feel the spirit" in the Celestial room twice. Once, when I had my first endowment (felt nothing during the ceremony itself, except confused). I think that was because I was being welcomed there by the people I loved who had come with me. Once, my very last day at the temple, when after a year of intense prayer and study during which I felt nothing except discouragement, I finally gave up and told God I was leaving the church. I felt this overwhelming peace and certainty that I was doing the right thing (the exact feeling I'd been trying to find when praying for confirmation that the church was true). Best decision I ever made.
Also, I was totally disappointed about the "new name." When I was a kid, I thought that I was going to have my premortal name restored to me (hahaha!) so it would be unique. When I was older, I knew that I wouldn't, but I still figured I would get my own name that was chosen specially for me, even if it wasn't completely unique to me. How disappointing to learn that you just get a name off a list, and everyone who goes on the same day gets the same one, so my mom, my aunts, my cousin, and my roommate all know my "secret" name. Also, the name they gave me was ugly. :(
Bednar visited my mission once. He struck me as a very smug individual. He asked us to read some church material to prepare for his arrival. What material exactly? General conference talks given by HIM.
Someone asked him what role his wife and kids played in his apostolic calling. He answered by saying they were a “good mirror for showing me how much progress I made in the gospel.”
He’s so arrogant.
If Bednar had any real interest in honesty, he would describe Mormon membership numbers something like this: The church has on its roles 16.8 million members. However, we estimate that only 3.3 million members are active in that they regularly attend church services and approximately 1.5 million members pay tithing regularly. The church is working hard to bring inactive members back into full activity in the church, but this is a real challenge given the increasingly secular world, the vast amount of information concerning Mormonism's history available on the internet and other sources and the problems the church has had with truthfully disclosing various aspects of its history which have had an adverse impact on the testimonies of many members. The church is committed to being more honest about its history and other areas that are problematic for the church. .... Fat chance. If only pigs could fly.
Never going to happen.
Nope…instead, the church is like the soldier from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It looks at its hemorrhaging membership and says “its just a flesh wound”!
Those who believe that the numbers presented by the church as “total membership” represent actual butts in pews have most likely never been to church outside the US. I served in Chile and literally every ward had 500-600 people on the ward roster and the average Sunday attendance was 60-80 people…in the summer. In the winter it was more like 40-50. Even if activity levels are way higher in the US, outside the US, especially in the poorer latin american, african and asian countries, the activity rates are abysmal. Its not opinion, it is reality. And those people don’t even know the ugly realities of church history because there are not many resources available to them. Europe has the same problems, but mainly due to secularism. Every ward I’ve lived in here in the US almost never has convert baptisms. Like ever. Except for the spanish speaking wards I was in…but with the same problems as mentioned before…they get baptized, come for a little, and don’t come back. The church gets to count a bean! Yeah!
@@sasquatl Why would you find it hard to believe that "< 1/3 of members are active"? Have you even checked your own ward/stake records? Do you have any experience living in branches/wards/stakes outside of the areas that have the largest concentrations of Mormons? There are many places where not even half of the members on record are active. Most "converts" go inactive not long after baptism. (That's well known among Mormons I know who live in areas that the heartland Mormons tend to refer to as "the mission field"...and I'm pretty sure it also holds in Utah, Idaho and Arizona as well. ) I mean, if you have any solid data that you can show to support your position that it is "hard to believe", please do contribute. Just saying that something is "hard to believe" doesn't advance knowledge in any way.
As for "never Mormons", it's obviously a context-appropriate term. For a discussion community that includes (among others) (a) believing Mormons, (b) questioning Mormons, (c) ex-Mormons and (d) people who have never been Mormons but who are interested in the topic of Mormon beliefs, history, etc., please note that for category (d) the term "never Mormons" is a convenient shorthand term for distinguishing category (d) from the other categories. The term "non-Mormon" could possibly also be used, but it is more ambiguous as it could also refer to ex-Mormons.
As for "never JW"...absolutely! If you become interested in joining a discussion community that focuses on all things related to JWs, you may find it helpful or even necessary to identify yourself as a "never JW" in order to avoid having to explain multiple times that you are a "person who has never been a member of the JW organization but are participating in the discussion community because you are nonetheless interested in or impacted by the JW organization."
3 mill is my guestimate
I had a bad temple experience as well. I definitely wanted to leave the temple during my endowment when they asked if anyone wanted to leave, but my mom was on one side, my dad was on the other side. and i thought, we just drove 4 hours to get here, and if I walk out, I'm not going to be able to go on my mission in a week. During the annointing, the lady said the wrong words, and the lady next to her was correcting her, and I was like, what the hell is going on right now???
Social and Family pressure is the only reason I went through the endowment.
@@kennethd.9436 I'm curious to hear if anyone has ever actually walked out.
You listen some j bag when they ask you questions if you want leave. I have be honest this sounds freakishly like luciferian cult
I feel so validated when people talk about not enjoying the temple. Especially not talking about it as a believing member but being more open about it after leaving.
My eyes were wide open the whole time I was getting endowed. The word cult went through my mind so many times. And I thought it was MY fault! I wasn’t prepared enough!
As a former convert, the consequences of leaving the church were moot. I don’t mind not serving a mission, I don’t mind not paying tithing, fast offerings, sharing the bs this doctrine is. One thing I am grateful to the church is that it finally opened my eyes to the fraud that all religions are, and pushed me out of that victim mentality of a believer.
Thank you for featuring Elder Bednar. I dislike his smugness greatly! Should make a perfect future president of The Church. What I think gets me the most is how he treats his wife. He’s an inspiration to make me realize how blessed 🙏 I am to be an independent woman who loves coffee, tank tops, foul language and an occasional toke. This should be fun to watch on a Friday night!
Next President will be Oaks. Then Holland and Ballard. I want to see Elder Uchtdorf as President one day.
@@scottbrandon6244 Thanks, yes I know. My point is that by the time it’s his turn he will be quite old. That is a problem that all the leaders are extremely old. We have had prophets who suffer from complete dementia. That was what I meant. Will make a fine future president; meaning the future
@@dianethulin1700 I was looking at a general conference talk by Uchtdorf the other day. He had only been an apostle for six months. He was around 62 but looked very young for his age. I was saying to myself that would be a great age to become President. And younger members can relate to a youthful looking leader.
@@scottbrandon6244 Agree completely!
Imagine if that church built and maintained one homeless shelter, one clinic, one trade school/community college and/or one daycare for every temple built. Imagine if they actually donated 10% to charity every year...
Yes. With all of the resources available, it's hard to imagine that, at a minimum, if the church was lead by benevolent leaders concerned about improving the lives of members, it wouldn't engage heavily in teaching young members very practical life skills and arts (e.g. in areas like agriculture, plumbing, carpentry, weaving, shoe-making, home-building, electrical work, water purification, nutrition, drawing, painting, printing, music, etc....) They could do this in addition to managing homeless shelters, health clinics and so on.
It's mind boggling how much they go out of their way to NOT empower individual members in any practical way.
But instead they chose to build America’s largest shopping mall. Given that they believe that when Jesus comes again he will ask for an accounting of what they have done, it truly beggars belief that this is somehow justified. Jesus might ask “so what exactly did you do with all of that tithing? Build orphanges for dying aids babies in Thailand?”, “ummm, no…we went with another shopping mall…”…
My mind nearly exploded when I was still in and I realized that every non-lds church around me has a homeless shelter or food kitchen or some real, physical resource at their building helping our local community on-the-ground with no strings attached. I've lived all over the world and never seen a single LDS meetinghouse with a homeless or women's shelter, soup kitchen, etc.
When I told my sons, who are not LDS, that I was going to serve a mission in the temple, one son asked me how much the church would pay me for that. When I said it wasn't paying anything, they gawked !! lol '' So you are giving them two years of your time, AND you are paying THEM for the privilege????
For most missionaries, giving two years of your time AND paying for the privilege.....AND being treated like a slave, monitored 24/7 by an assigned "companion" who is commanded to snitch on you if you ever break any of the hundreds of insane rules you are forced to comply with. What a deal!!!
There is so much need in the world.Children dying of starvation,people struggling to make ends meet.Why can’t some of that money be given to help in the world.
The breakdown & clarification of the church’s humanitarianism donations is worth a tiktok/reel/quickvid. I can’t tell you how many members (myself included before I left) think the church is shoveling money to humanitarian efforts. Members need to see the reality.
The church and it’s leaders should be at least as truthful, forthright, and complete in every utterance as every member is expected to be in a temple recommend interview. Anything less is hypocrisy and screams “this is a cult!” As the song teaches “do what is right, let the consequence follow”, they need to set the example or stop talking!
What a great episode. Anytime RFM can comment on Elder Bednar is an event worth listening to. RFM "has Bendnar's number" and says so much in a few words and tone of voice.
That part where he is so awful to that little boy is horrifying. The child is crying!! And Bednar is clearly pleased that he made the child cry.
It was creepy. He put his arms around the kid & put his mouth in his ear. It was weird & creepy. I wanted to puke.
Elder Bednar has aged rapidly, I remember when he was touted as a young apostle and I’m still in my 20s. Either the apostles age faster due to a deal with the devil or what passes as a young apostle is embarrassingly old.
Nah. Think he dyed his hair and then stopped.
He will be 70 in two weeks.
@@jeffwilson4693 Yipes! The older I get the younger 70 seems. Boyfriend turning 66 soon and me 60 this year
I did make it a point to observe Elder Bednar after reading these comments about his appearance. In my limited experience working with cancer patients as well as patients who have post surgical speech therapy it seems there’s more than just some grey hair. His speech seemed a little shaky but he did have vigor although it was muted slightly. The give away to my mind was RFM noting how he was reading. We have seen him speak holding onto that kid instead of cue cards. For some reason he was unprepared to give that talk, in my opinion
@@dianethulin1700 He could also be going thru a spiritual trial. After all, he is an Apostle.
@@jeffwilson4693 Something to consider 🤔
So funny that the best thing they can say about women in the church is the relief society is really old. Kept laughing about that all through watching this episode.
And it came to pass that the Mormonite Church did join itself to everything which, in my youth, I was taught were secret combinations.
My kids will never know what its like to have shame instilled in them the way Bednar did to that boy. Mistakes are about learning. They will struggle to love themselves at times, but I will not make it harder for them.
The boy probably didn't understand much about what was going on in terms of Bednar's "teaching moment", but probably felt like it was personal and all about him and his "sins", feeling like the Apostle was aware of it all and was warning him that he was on the path to destruction. Crying from fear, shame and nervousness. Of course Bednar didn't even need the boy as a prop and his "teaching moment" probably would have been more effective if Bednar had just acted out the motions by himself. But making things cringy and less clear is what "inspired" "general authorities" are for, right?
Good job those are bad guys! Oaks said it's wrong to criticize the leaders even if it's true? That is straight up cult control
My family was completely destroyed when we joined the church. My sister who is still a TBM says “well that’s not how it was supposed to be!” oh well that’s wonderful thanks for that TBM sister!!!! That makes all the difference in the world
!!!!not.
I’m sorry Miriam. ❤️I hope they find their way out
My mom's ward, in São Paulo, keeps getting emptier and emptier. Today I went there, and the same people who were there 5 years ago are still there, but there's almost no new people.
John on mass shootings at 43:06. He is asking about the church response. However I would also like to hear from John and other PhDs in clinical psychology in the Mormon Stories community as to what they think the source of the problem is and any solutions.
I agree with Jon and the other participant’s that a close examination of the LDS church’s investments lobbying efforts will show you the “fruits” of the LDS church.
1) Buy and build investment funds with tax free donations.
2) Lobby against LGBT human rights.
You briefly spoke about being a History Major. When I went to BYUI, as a history major, the teachers and students would often joke abt how no one from our dept was allowed to give a devotional talk bc the GA were too afraid. Had an amazing badass female professor who was very greatful when We’d call all my teachers ‘Professor’ not Sister/Brother. Her published papers would constantly get eyebrow raises from the higher ups lol
I have never been able to figure out what is so sacred about anything done in the Temple. I was so disappointed to find out that my Temple name was not special to me but everyone that session had the same one. A funny self story is when we used to go to DC Temple as a ward once a month, I told my friend, the Bishop’s wife, that I didn’t like going as I always got a terrible headache. She then reached over and loosened my veil. No more headaches.😂
I would like Bednar's financial remarks audited.
And needing to pay.At tithing is what makes us able to go to the Temple.What about those who are worthy,but not able to pay tithing,no recommend.So basically we need to pay our way to Heaven.So glad I have learned that.
Keeping sacred ordinances essential to eternal well-being behind a paywall? Yes, that's the business model. And they don't even teach the "principle of tithing" as it was originally outlined in their scriptures, i.e. as a percentage of one's "increase". If you raise chickens and you were blessed with a very fertile bunch of chickens that increased your flock from 100 to 200, your increase would be 100 chickens (minus whatever additional work and feed went into keeping it going) and you would owe Mormon god 10 chickens.
The greedy leaders, however, want you to think that exchanging your time and labor for the market value of your time and labor (a wage) is an increase, when it's not. All you have done is given to someone else your time and labor in exchange for the monetary value of that time an labor. There is no net increase for you. In terms of tithing "principles" it would make more sense to pay tithing only on gifts received, rather than wages earned. But the church is more in the business of accumulating wealth for the leaders to play around with than it is in pursuing any kind of doctrinal or logical consistency. I guess they're quite consistent with the "give us your money and maybe god will help you out later on" messaging.
I try not to judge people on their mannerisms and tone of voice. Because I'm neurodiverse, it's hard for me not to be overly sensitive and overwhelmed at how robotic, detatched, patronizing and ego-centric Bednar seems.
I left the church because of this albeist flavor from the GA's, before I even researched real church history. Their tones and personalities are so off-putting to me. I couldn't let my children look to leaders/speakers who deliver like that. There's not many solid, truthful, good things coming out of their mouths. Yikes!
It's weird. But every time I see Bednar's name, the phrase "Bednar and broomsticks" pops into my head. It's like some kind of message from the ether, but I can't decipher its meaning yet.
The movie bedknobs and broomsticks?? 😅
There was young adults event I watched hosted by Elder Bednar. A man who appeared rather young had just lost wife to an illness. I was surprised by Elder Bednar's response to the widower because it did not seem very sympathetic.
42:10 Would Bednar accept “We’ll pray for you” as an appropriate consolation for the church’s losses in the stock market? 😄
Oh man, I had never seen that video of Elder Bednar with the little boy before. That brought back so many things for me. Granted my faith transition is recent and ongoing so it's all a little tender. I met Elder Bednar privately when I was about that little boys age. It was just my family in the room with him and he was so scary to me. In the MTC my companion and I were invited to have Christmas dinner with him and I once again had a bad experience. Ive met several apostles and most have been kind but Elder Bednar still scares me.
🤔Reflecting on being a strong believer, once upon a time, and now, years out of the church, it is easy to see all the dishonesty. It’s sad 😞 to see how these kind of misleading messages often pull vulnerable people in, divide families, provide a false foundation of truth, and fail to validate real truth.
I grew up in the Church and I knew that the only reason we didn't practice was because it is against the law.
John and temples purpose at 53:45. Boundary maintenance may also refer to a subculture of insiders and outsiders. There is a "club" of people who are in the know about the temple, and many members who have never attended. I could never get a straight answer as to what the expectations were before I went except bring money for clothing. The issues of who gets the recommend is another issue. It is not just about tithing, but bishops can deny temple access if the recommend interview questions are not answered correctly. Then they have to discuss it and reschedule an interview at a later date. If a member was inactive that was another reason to deny a recommend.
So true!!
The kid at 30:24. He was clearly uncomfortable. However I noticed adults in the audience just smiling away through the whole exercise. There is another video series I saw which is geared toward YSA. It too is hosted by Elder Bednar. Some of the material there looked like it made some class members uncomfortable.
It’s like when everybody is thrilled with the super young couple getting engaged after a couple of weeks
I agree. The boy was clearly uncomfortable from the very beginning. Elder Bednar was oblivious to how the boy was feeling. It went on and on. I’ve seen this clip several times and it makes me uncomfortable and angry every time I watch it. I mean, let the kid go already!
@@littlebee5048 I’m not so sure Bednar was oblivious to the child being uncomfortable. In fact I wonder if he gets off a little at this display of power
@@dianethulin1700 that is the vibe I got too. Very creepy.
"Adults in the audience just smiling away". Hey, that's exactly what they're supposed to do. It wouldn't be much of a cult if they started behaving like people with minds of their own in the presence of one of their top leader guys. Sounds like you're not the kind of team player who can appreciate the more subtle requirements of cult membership. Shame on you! ;o)
It would be interesting for MS to do a poll and ask former members of the church how many of their family are no longer active but have not withdrawn their membership. I would love to see a number on that.
I have always felt sorry for Sister Bednar. She seems to be in fear of saying or doing the wrong thing.Like a child who is going to be punished for a naughty deed.
Prophets continuing since Joseph Smith at 56:39. True, but there were three year gaps between each subsequent prophet after JS died. There was a belief held by some leaders early in the church that JS would return some day. Plus the succession was not figured out. So it was not continual succession like today. The early church had no official President on a continual basis. So there was a three gap between JS and BY; a three year gap between BY and John Taylor; and a two year gap between Taylor and Woodruff. No gap occurs thereafter.
I think they were banking on Hyrum
He told my mission that he hypnotized a group of reporters in Italy with his priesthood.
You could hardly blame those reporters for being hypnotized when Elder Bednar's eyeballs started spinning in circles. It was either that or running for the exits thinking he would explode.
"With his priesthood"? So is that what they're calling it in Italian now? I thought the correct translation was "indecent exposure".
It's cult the luciferian powers same ones they get by putting on green apron represents his power aka lucifer. Newnamenoah has videos prove the rituals
Wow that does make a good euphemism 🤣 that sounds straight out of a romance novel: she was awed by his manhood. The Italians were mesmerized by his priesthood 🤣 nice
I’m sorry I just can’t not laugh. “By my estimates there are about 3-4 active Mormon’s in the church”. I know 3-4 million was what was meant but still, made me laugh. Thanks for all the effort put into this podcast and videos!! 💜
Yeah I think the LDS Corp doesn't just teach us to look outside for our beliefs, but also to actively shush our inner selves and intuition to the point of not even knowing who we really are. There's constant dissonance and shame.
Not sure if I am hyper sensitive but no man should ever be allowed to hold my child like that. It seems so intrusive and an invasion of privacy. Imagine if that was a young woman he was holding on to like that. Not ok
The funny thing is that he probably thought he was acting as a "master teacher" in that moment, illustrating a concept with a memorable skit (using the poor boy as a prop). But in reality, it was super cringe and creepy. He could have taken the boy's question and just acted it out by himself, using himself as the example, instead of bringing the boy out of the audience and traumatizing the boy. One thing that is not in short supply among the Mormon leaders is massive egos. Bednar probably also thought that the boy would go through life cherishing the memory of how he was "touched by an Apostle of the Lard".
@@TEAM__POSEID0N oh there are no shortage in egos there I know! And the cover up culture is a real thing too. Scary 😟
Agree 💯
The church taught me to not trust myself and my own intuition and that I was a human and the Book of Mormon teaches that “The natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever…”
This taught me that my own intuition was wrong and evil and that I needed to fully trust in the leaders of the church to tell me what was right and wrong because I was incapable to do that because I am human and an enemy to God.
Denominational churches typically have a headquarters, parishes have similar beliefs, and pastors/priests go to theological school which is often a graduate degree. Denominational churches are typically Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Episcopal. Evangelical churches in the US are typically non-denominational, any charismatic person with a Bible can start one, no education required. When Mormons say they are the 4th largest denomination in the US, that might be the case as that wording excludes all the evangelicals.
You are brilliant Alicia. Would love to meet in person some day.
Wow! I'm a member of the LDS Church from the Philippines! At first I was so hesitant to liked this video cause I only subscribed to channels that Christ's church I mean the international youtube channel of the Church so that I cannot be confused about what the podcast/random type of video says, anyway thanks for the positive comments it made myself to be interested woth this
This is a superlative episode y’all have a good chemistry with RFM in the room everybody has upped their game and RFM’s jokes and quips are right on target
Just a thought..with all the millions of dollars being donated by both the church and celebrities, why are people still living below the poverty line? To where is the money donated? Who is it helping?
Judging from all of the very obvious and public nepotism that is evident in everything from which men become the top leaders to which people get really nice sinecures (paid positions) in church-controlled organizations (including universities, among other things), there is probably a whole lot more of that going on with regard to companies and service providers that routinely contract with the church for various things (possibly including temple-building projects and so on), with the net result that tithepayer-contributed funds can, via contracts, eventually find their way into the private pockets of people/shareholders of companies that the church "prefers" to do business with. If it turns out that many of those private pockets belong to people who have close connections to church leaders, I would not be surprised at all.
Who brought the kid over the line and held him over the line. Bednar was acting like an evil spirit himself. The little kid in this instance was powerless. Nobody who is ever in that situation is ever powerless. You always have your agency.
Oh, those wonderful temples! Soon, just like a certain global coffee shop franchise, Mormon temples will be so ubiquitous that you'll never have to travel more than 15 minutes to get your "sacred spice necrodunkaccino" or your "hand-shakerato latte". You can give it to me through the veil inside or through the drive-thru veil when I'm in a hurry. Thanks for the convenience. Be sure to keep your "frequent-proxy" card handy to win free prizes. Any temple customer who does the same work for the same dead person 5 times is eligible to enter a drawing for a free pair of white temple socks!
But, seriously, this discussion was so on point with regard to the apparent nuttiness of the church's massive temple building expansion at a time when (1) the number of temple goers appears to be declining overall and (2) there likely are very few additional records of names of dead people to even do dead people ordinances for. (From what I've heard on numerous occasions, recycling of names of dead people is commonplace so that visitors to the temple will have something to do, even though there are no new records of dead people names available. )
In addition to the discussion of the public relations/power projection imagery goals that the erection of hundreds of temples may accomplish (even though to outsiders, the temples probably just seem a bit creepy and weird), I can't help but wonder about a couple of other possible objectives that this big temple-building program may accomplish.
(1) Who/What entities (including shareholders of corporate parties, and shareholders of corporate shareholders) are on the other side of all of the contracts that the church and church-controlled entities enter into in connection with all of the various aspects of temple building, from finding and brokering land acquisitions, deciding whose land to buy, hiring architects, sourcing materials, general contracting services, government relations work, etc.? One thing for certain is that a significant amount of tithepayer-derived money is moving from church owned and controlled accounts into private hands through all of the contracts and transactions that are inevitably involved in each temple project. Maybe this question is too cynical, but is it possible that to some degree the transfer of wealth from the church into private hands through temple-building projects is not simply incidental?
(2) For what it's worth, 100s of new temples mean 100s of new real estate acquisitions in major urban areas, typically located in upscale areas. So the church is also inevitably building up a large real estate investment portfolio. (In urban areas of many countries the underlying land value at certain locations is often much greater than any value attached to the buildings sited on the land -- to the point that buildings are almost trivial components of the value of the real estate holding.)
Maybe the church will shrink so much they give the frequent punch cards and eventually you can get enough punches to get the 2nd Anointing! 🤣😂
Good point! I wonder which private entities benefit the most from temple building and do certain church leaders have connections to those entities?
It almost feels like his statements about the church not being a humanitarian organization and the implication being that the good works are actually PR expenses should challenge their tax exempt status
"for an old man I'm pretty strong."
my kids are around that kids age. and they have a similar haircut and every.single.mama.instinct was screaming at me to get that child to safety.
(now, it would still scream out to me if it wasn't SO EASY to picture my child in that moment)
It makes GREAT sense! 100 temples secures temple oaths of obedience AND their wealth for life, AND those governments officials temple sworn to uphold their theocracy....global government under pressure. Nelson. It's power international financial ties.
Announcing temples, and acquiring land is a tax accounting strategy for the LDS 4th mission - maintain tax exempt status. But by all means don't pay janitors or clergy, or quadruple the relief society budget, etc
Fun fact, a long time ago the Relief Society had its own building. The LDS church in Elba, Idaho has a brick Relief Society building across the street, the words "Relief Society" are in stone on the front of it. I don't know if the LDS church still owns it, the Relief Society doesn't meet there. I have been to craft bazaars held in the building.
Catholics claim one billion members, but everybody knows they are not all active. So, I don't think that it's unfair that the church claims almost 17 million members, with 3-4 million active members is actually a pretty good and high activity rate still. As time goes by, I will expect the activity rate to drop down to 10% or less, this will be similar to other churches' activity rates.
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
Good work.
@2:42:00 BYU isn't about being a good school, it's the church's perpetual motion engine. Bring people to the church. Bring the kids to BYU. Kids stay in the church and get jobs with more money. More money means more tithing. Repeat.
With their massive mountains of money I've always been uncomfortable with the Church counting member's direct contributions as their own.
In addition, the church still practices polygamy by supporting doctrines which uphold and enable polygamy: a latent belief in Adam-God and the Proclamation on the Family. The whole theology is based on the hetero sex act, and in God being a big super-man in the sky, after the image of Brigham Young.
I have to disagree with the idea that if you don't have anything to hide, then speaking with the press shouldn't be a problem. Here's a real-life example: a reporter asked a relative of mine, a politician, for a comment on something. He declined. She asked why. He replied, "Because I know who you are, and I don't trust you." She said, "If you don't give me a statement, I will make one up for you." Bias in be reporting is it well-known. They will edit, exclude necessary context, etc.
Also, I took mandatory anti-harassment training for my first job over two decades ago. Avoiding unnecessary touch is not new. Bednar's demonstration seems painfully out of touch.
"The race and the priesthood needs an apostle to stand up and blatantly say 'We were wrong'"
I'm not really sure how this will help when the founding scripture is one long story explaining that the existence of 'dark skinned' Native Americans is due to a curse from God. The idea that non-white skin color is punishment for wickedness is a central theme of the Book of Mormon (and this idea is not limited to the BoM but exists in other LDS scripture). So what would it even mean for an apostle to say 'We were wrong'? Would they be saying that the BoM is fiction? I don't know how the church escapes from this corner they are painted into.
The way that blacks have been treated really rankles me! As a child and teen I would ask about this and was told by my church leaders to pray that the prophet would get a revelation to give blacks the priesthood. They put it on God like there’s nothing more we can do 🤷♀️
When I would try to get friends to go to youth activities it was always “ Aren’t Mormons racist?” And I’m defending those racist assholes because I think this is how God wants it! This really makes me so angry bc they were and are bigots
I can appreciate the sentiment about what the church leaders "should" do. At the same time, I'm always a bit befuddled by a certain line of thinking among post-Mormons, which in effect calls/demands/requests the leaders of the church to make changes (e.g. giving females the priesthood) that, if made by the leaders, would logically be the equivalent of acknowledging that the church has never been anything other than a man-made organization that has ZERO grounds for claiming to be led by God or Jesus or any other supreme being.
Again, I appreciate the sentiment. And I guess the church could sort of function for some of its members as officially being an uninspired social club for perhaps a few more decades following the admission that throughout its entire history all of its past leaders have been less inspired and less led by God than a typical dollar store manager. And I guess for some people "having the priesthood" would feel good(?) even while knowing that it's an entirely fictional "priesthood" that has less meaning than holding the rank of "Daisy" or "Brownie" in the Girl Scouts.
But for me, once you realize how bogus it is, it doesn't make much sense to essentially request or demand that the leaders pretend to get "revelations" in order to make changes that will make the church more popular. Of course a bogus church that doesn't pretend to be led by revelations from God can make changes anytime it wants. But unless it's a fun place, what's the point? I guess if they start spending some of that $100 billion hoard they could make it worthwhile. Turn the temples into health spas and fitness centers. Turn Stake Centers into Mormon-themed amusement parks, where having the "priesthood" gives you access to the best rides.
Temples at 52:39. I had a much better experience with temples. But at my height of activity I was doing 3-4 endowment sessions each Saturday and helping with family sealings work. There are people who don't believe it when they hear the endowment and initiatory changed over time. They only know recent ceremonies and were not around pre 1990 and pre 2005.
It sounds like you know your early church history. I have a question. I am seeing in my family history where family members have been baptized and had temple sealings in New York and Nauvoo. Then I see where they are again baptized by proxy in various temples years later. Also re baptized during the reformation. Was it thought their previous baptisms were canceled? I don’t know how to understand these records
I loved the discussion about looking inside--examining one's heart, I think.
Mike Hickey did 20 yrs. He came home, went back to his family ranch, got married again and was taken back into the church.
Why on earth would the NAACP want to have anything to do with Mormonism? How much money did the Mormon church give the NAACP to buy their friendship?
EDIT: In fact, a while back, when I saw in the news that the NAACP was willing to interact with the SLC based sect of Mormonism, I lost respect for the NAACP.
Yep! San Francisco resident. Glide Memorial is the church with cache here
Why would he even say The Church is not a humanitarian organization after laying out his case that The Church is a humanitarian organization? Just so bizarre! And that’s nothing to brag about when what you’re doing is bragging about The Church!! I guess he’s not a dodo so I’m left to believe he’s stupid
I think your rants are right on the mark. :)
I live in San Francisco and know if you are partnering with a church it’s going to be Glide Memorial. The Church most likely think they’re too pro-gay ( while loving all of gods children equally of course). Cecil Williams is not the smarmy type. Class act that man. I have encountered him over the years and think of him as living Christs example
I wonder if when church leaders talk about the “humanitarian efforts” such as bringing clean water to African villages, they actually mean that missionaries out there, paying THEM, working on behalf of the church to prey on impoverished people happen to take part in the efforts whilst on their missions. Meaning, it was less about the humanitarian efforts and the money spent and more about signing more people up to the church to pay you tithings and increase your profits.
Although I do not believe the individuals that are giving their service do so for what is in it for themselves, but the church as an organization does..They pay where they want to make change "from the outside in".
Also...I can't help but feel the church is trying to get out in front of the Vallow Daybell murder trials especially since "Under The Banner of God" coming out.
Bednar is making enough of an impression I’ve seen him featured in “cringe” compilation videos.
I burst into tears for caller Adrianne who is gay but still married and clearly has several children. Listening audio-only so I did not understand the child-being-held clip, but I didn't need to see Adrianne to get the whole story. My heart aches for her.
So creepy to see Bednar jimmy-up on the kid! Bednar is the one stepping over the line! And he probably felt intimidated by the power differential. Women know what this is like. And the adults think it’s special he was selected to go up there. Horrible crossing of boundaries asking him to really press back on him physically. And he didn’t even know his name!
I love the Church. Thanks for posting
Thanks!
Wow! You got me thinking about how certain and many churches outside of Mormanism are allowed to discriminate against women and LGBQT! I think of the Catholic church….wake up people! I have done some critical thinking because of you videos. Bravo! God bless you and may God’s grace be upon you ❤️🙏
They chose Bednar because Holland would have been a Dodo again, and the church can't have that! Great podcast and great team.
No. Holland would always be the number one pick because he has more enthusiasm. The problem is that he's still recovering from some injuries he sustained while trying to crawl over, under and around the Book of Mormon for the 8th time in 3 days. (Apparently it's some kind of workout routine for senior citizens that he hopes to market to LDS affiliated fitness centers.)
I find it interesting that the church has more members outside of the U.S., but all of the Apostles are American. 🤔
There is one who is non American he is European.
Another is from Brazil. But yes, historically all white americans..Americans... Jesus wouldn't have it any other way!
I thought Pathways also included Math and English?
In many non English speaking countries missionaries still offer English classes even now. I saw ads in our local Stake here in the US for English classes for immigrants as well- another way to find converts.
Bednar didn't even know the kids name till he asked afterward, so not concentual. And the poor kid is crying! Dann how is that okay?
If the acelestial room is a representation of out heavenly home it's no wonder Luucy rebelled and caused a ruckus.
The first time I went to the temple I thought the Celestial Room was going to be lush with plants and beauty like the Garden of Eden. Instead it reminded me of the lobby of a luxury hotel. Except not that interesting
He had to read everything, even his declaration of the Grace vs Works difference.
Marriage at 54:39. Marriages in other churches are never eternal. The whole point is they are for time on earth only. In fact that is part of the vows made with the couple and pastor presiding. Evangelical and Catholic churches like to make this point of difference in LDS and other marriages, that theirs is for time of earth only. However I have seen two versions of temple marriages for LDS members. Most are married for time and eternity or sealed together. In some cases the wording if different and the marriage is for time on earth only. An example would be a woman marrying for a second time who is widowed. That second marriage is for time on earth only. There is a way around that but it may involve cancelling the first sealing to the dead husband.
the 'til death us do part' line is not a refutation of LDS sealing but was the standard wording for centuries not as a statement of limits but of a full life commitment.
I understand that mormon men can be multiplely sealed to wives, but a woman can only be eternal sealed once.
Women in early church history used priesthood authority outside of temple ordinances and gave healing blessings - take a look at In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton
Translation at 57:19. That is still the correct word to use for the Book of Mormon. The church officially still refers to it as a translation.
That Bernard "crossing the line" video is way creepy.
I am wondering whether the Lds church having a non profit status may get in trouble with the I RS with the leak about the 120 billion net worth, therefore the spending on new temples and/or "humanitarian spending to avoid being busted like Trump and loosing the non-profit status.
20 million donated to Unicef, is the money really going to those in need,???
As an accountant we have to "get behind the figures" and communicate to management to make decisions. Then Bedar says he is an apostle, b******t. Especially from a very corporate church and successful at investments.
Let’s not forget that we went to the temple to get a curse. We were told by Lucifer, that If we do not live up to every covenant we make in the temple, we are in Lucifer’s power. Nice memory. This is where I think the church should be sued for manipulation and abuse.
I am NOT defending Rusty, but, older men to have a tendency to re-marry very quickly. My opinion of this is that men of Rusty's generation are used to be 'taken care of' and not having to 'fend for themselves,' so they look for another wife rather quickly. Also, I feel sorry for Mrs. Bednar. She always looks either miserable, or looks like she is trying to put on a happy face. I can't imagine being married to that man.
I just want to point out that the posted pic says "Mormon Apostle Unscripted" and yet I saw Bednar read a script throughout his press talk and even mocked for it in the discussion/chat. I think if we are going to call out the church for being dishonest we need to be more honest than this lest we be like unto the hypocrites.
I love and appreciate you guys❣
I was transfixed on the analysis, so many smart ppls in hur, and I can't wait for part deux
I hope my calling this out and still publicly adoring you all is not considered gaslighting, but perceived as genuine feels.
À la prochaine!
I saw it as kinda an inside joke as we all know they would never ever address the national press club “unscripted”. But I totally see your point. They’re rarely “unscripted” anymore, particularly in front of nonmembers, what with the ubiquitousnesses of cameras. They’ve learned they create far too many problems without sticking to a script.
It is probably a reference to the TH-cam channel Saints Unscripted, where Mormon youth including a black guy talk about Mormonism.
I took it as the commentary was unscripted
@@caseyjude5472 Good point.
@@charlesmendeley9823 Good point.
With regards to the members to church buildings, most buildings have multiple "wards" meet in one building. Not saying it adds up to 17 million, but still.
It's odd that plural marriage is spun to be a compliment to women, because in the eternal economy there are fewer righteous men. The idea of the lost boys, however, looms over men who don't make the cut. It hurts men and women, but perhaps women more.
I really don't mean to be hating on Bednar, but I just really do NOT like him in any way. Nothing about him is inspiring. I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but what the hell is he doing being an Apostle anyway?
When it comes to the shootings, I don't think "senseless" is a fair word to use. Like RFM says, they are a symptom. In a way, there is a sense to them and I can only suspect that a large portion of them could have been avoided with the right changes, like better mental health practices, more loving and accepting environments, less focus on perfection and living up to ideals, less prioritizing rules over people, etc. Those are all things that the church does not do well.
Didn’t get to watch live.
However. Amongs the plethora of mis-characterised teachings and how they are applied (changed) today from decades past.
Would like to address two points.
Blessings. Hymn: “Count your many blessings!! Name them One By One”.
Of course we have certainly in my youth taught paying tithing and serving attracts blessings. Goodness me “Prove Me Now Herewith, If I will not open the Windows of Heaven and pour out blessings you cannot contain”. A principle that has multiple application across church teachings.
Secondly ‘Being like Jesus’!
If Bednar was living an’Jesus Life’ he should like the Apostles of old be amongst the people without purse or script’! Not being paid $200,000.00 stipend. Enjoying the benefits of his office that ‘we’ don’t see.
Yes, they work long hours, they travel a lot.
So did Jesus. But unlike them he didn’t have billions of dollars behind him. Etc etc etc.
He didn’t mention, I noted, the $2,000,000.00 that was paid to the ‘unexpected’ coupling of ‘organisations’.
I always thought the LDS church was a ‘Church’. Not an organisation.
So much more but my fingers hurt.
Ask us questions! Just expect the nature of the question to be changed.
Look forward to the next episode.