as someone who has been groomed and sexually abused by a teacher at 12 years old + groomed throughout my entire adolescence by older men, i wish more movies would be as raw and realistic and even empathetic towards victims like this one is, regardless of gender and/or sexuality of both the victim and the perpetrator
Thank you for your take on this! I thought it was VERY well acted and written. It was also too uncomfortable and disturbing for me to watch all the way through. After I saw what I saw of it, I wished I could ask someone who this actually happened to what they think of this film.
You said that you think Elizabeth is clearly attracted to Joe, but that’s not really it. She’s so method and manipulative and wanted to “seduce” him just as Gracie did. It was her goal and she succeeded. And that relates to her shallow transformation into Gracie. She’s a weirdo is what I’m trying to say. An amusing one tho
Yes, I think it was just a part of her research. She wanted to seduce him like Gracie did. When she goes to the pet store she reenacts the abuse in the backroom. Crazy! It's method acting to the extreme, and it turns her into a nut (like Gracie).
Agree, Elizabeth clearly does not need anyone, she relies solely on herself for everything, and always in control, much like Gracie.. the difference between them is that Elizabeth does not hide who she is, while Gracie never reveals het true character in the presence of others.
Just a theory, her rapid mood cycling could be borderline personality disorder which is not uncommon in people who were SAed as children. When Gracie was hunting the fox, no one else is around to witness her true self, it is such a revelatory scene for the viewer. The close up of her face in that scene is the true Gracie. She’s far from weak or helpless prey, she’s the predator.
It sounds like Julianne Moore's character is a covert narcissist. Her ability to gaslight him sounds devastating; she audaciously blames her young, naive husband for her seducing him as a child. Furthermore, he is emotionally stunted because she has kept him emotionally dependent upon her by forcing him to navigate her unreasonable outbursts and volatile emotions, all while she is consciously manipulating him vua emasculation and control. It's classic narcissitic abuse.😢 Can't wait to see it though. Love Ms Moore's films. Great actress! ❤
RE: comments abt the daughters’ (dress and scale bizz) Did y’all not notice how a few scenes later Gracie is wearing that same dress she called her daughter “brave” for? I also feel like ya’ll missed the most important/revealing point of information Julianne gave during the “breakdown abt cake cancelation” scene … he asks “why did she cancel?” “…idk, her sister is sick or something… I WASTED HOURS MAKING THAT CAKE!!” Which gives us in no uncertain terms (pretty early on) validation of the fact that this woman does not have empathy for other people.
Yes, that is the scene where she first see her emotional, outraged over a canceled order. Not sure if she used this as an opportunity to control Joe, showing him she is this fragile woman, that she would in fact break without him, as he later states to Elizabeth. The truth is that she does not have a fragile bone in her body. so do y'all think she really broke down, or was this an act, so joe sees her as needy?
@@beatsventura8813good catch. Much like Mary K Letourneau (til the day she died) insisted that Vili “was the boss” and was the instigator in their relationship from the start. Mary K came off as this delicate, innocent, fragile flower. But underneath the facade you can clearly see the control she held over that kid. She knew what she was doing.
That was such a good movie. Like a psychological horror movie. I know people like Julianne Moore's character. People obey people like Gracie because they do not want to upset them. The guilt trips and the angry scenes can be neverending, as we saw when Joe tried to confront Gracie. It was very creepy at the end, when Natalie Portman kept saying to the boy who's playing Joe: "It's not that kind of snake." No. It's the kind of snake that wraps itself tightly around your body and slowly squeezes the life out of you.
I enjoyed it as well. The characters were interesting and entertaining. I agree that people like Gracie are first class manipulators, are tolerated, as their motives are never clear.
i think it did a really good job of showing the effect and aftermath of a victim. staying with someone who was your gr00mer into adulthood, and still being trapped like a kid. you could see it in his whole body. he was carrying so much unreleased trauma. his performance was beautiful! the movie did a great job of capturing just how creepy it is, from a perspective i haven't seen dine before. i mean even natalie's character talking on the phone about how the cast of the boy wasn't s3xy enough. like "the kid isn't s3xxy enough" HE IS A KID he is not supposed to be !!! and how at the end her tried to talk to his wife, and gr00mer and up til now she still treats him horribly. just in full control of him. and he caves like a little kid. is it not called fawning? it was just very well made.... HOWEVER, as a film, i don't know what exactly it wanted to say beyond that. it was messy and as a movie, it was not that good.
Honestly, he broke me. We know this is based on a real story, but we also know there are far too many survivors of sexual grooming. Melton played this with so much vulnerability, EVERYONE must surely be rooting for him xxx
I think I read somewhere that one of the main points of this film is that Elizabeth is over-invested in her acting to the point where she is just as manipulative as Gracie is. She is blurring the boundaries and becomes obsessive compulsive in the same way Nina in Black Swan became.
Great review. Did anyone else wonder if the man child was gonna leave his family at the graduation? I thought the bug that turned into a butterfly, that he let fly away represented him finding his own freedom and life by leaving his wife. Good movie!
Yo, good point! He might just be leaving after all! I was wondering what took him so long to find a space. Maybe that wasn't the problem after all. Then I thought maybe he just didn't want to sit next to gracie at the time, but ur theory explains his getting so emotional aside from simply being proud of the twins. He's probably going to find that bug group or person he's been texting throughout the movie. Maybe that's the same person he was telling Elizabeth about when explaining the caterpillars
I llike that they never spell out why Joe is the way he is. You could read it as arrested development due to his abuse, but I thought he was probably always like that. His neurodivergence is why Gracie singled him out in the first place. He was extremely vulnerable, and easier to control long-term.
Mary kay letourno did a TV interview with her husband a couple years back and I think that will fill in a lot of the blanks that you wanted to see because you really get an impression of how their relationship was.
There was a Lifetime movie in the early 2000s about Mary Kay Letourneau. It was called something like, "American Girl: The Mary Kay Letourneau story. I remember watching it as a kid when home sick from school, thinking it was one of those movies about the American Girl Dolls. No idea why I thought that would be on Lifetime but I digress. I remember it being an anger inducing mess. The movie portrayed her as this victim who didn't know any better or something, not an adult woman with multiple kids (one that was Villi's age) and a husband. I was maybe twelve when I saw that movie and I remember feeling such rage. Never before had I wanted to beat someone up more than I did Mary Kay Letourneau. I think even the name shows whose side they were on.
Yeah it’s on tubi. What stick to me how they portray him like he sought her out like what !? Never mind the “boy” look older not a middle schooler which he was🥴
@@nicole71047 Oh, that doesn't surprise me that it's on Tubi. So many Lifetime movies are on there. Honestly, given how the rest of the film was and how they portrayed her as the victim, it kind of makes the casting suspicious.
America makes A LOT of excuses for pretty white women. To some degree they are to be protected at all costs. It's so sick and messed up. This movie was excellent at portraying narcissists...they are predators and can be very dangerous.
Immediately after watching the movie, I looked for an update on Laturneau. They gave Barbara Walters an interview in 2015. Two years later he filed for separation. In 2020 she died of cancer. What I found curious is that both her and Debra Lafave were bipolar. Debra cited this as a contributing factor in her poor judgement.
I watch other reviews channels, but you’re the only one I am subbed to. You’re incredibly professional - highlighting various technical aspects of filmmaking (score, acting, directing, cinematography, symbolism, editing, screenplay, etc.) - , you’re hilarious, you mention other films by the filmmaker, you are incredibly thorough and most of all, you don’t LOVE everything you watch, you don’t love a film just because it was made by a pedigreed director. I enjoy your reviews in so many ways and I respect the hell out of both of you.
I've watched a number of reviews of this movie (I honestly don't think I could handle watching the movie itself) so I kind of know more or less where things go, and I'm an old, so I remember this case from when I was younger. But just to prove I can still be surprised, there was a spit-take moment in there where I was like "wait... *Dateline* is still running?"
I am so glad you mentioned the size of his appendage. When i saw it, i had to rewind and take another look because i couldn't believe the size of it. And then i wondered "was that the whole point? This director has got me looking at Joe with lustful intent!"...and then i felt really disgusted with myself. I dont know if it was intentional, but that moment alone made me realise these women may have desired the young boy / man-child but every fibre in their being should have stopped them exploiting him. Brilliant film! Xxx
I had the same feeling about Gracie - that he seems fragile, but she knows exactly what she's doing and she's a really skilled manipulator. The people in the community seemed nice, but the lawyer said that these are just a few people who try to protect her. I got the impression that she's still somewhat of a pariah in the community at large. I loved the scenes with Georgie and the ex husband, and the one where Natalie talks about the sex scenes and so on. It's a great movie and so much beneath the surface.
Being fragile is only a persona she used to maintain control. It is not her true nature, she is very calculated in everything, not one moment where her face will drip into her true self, which we later see when she is hunting.
My thought was this happens a lot, she complains a lot and uses emotional manipulation on him a lot. Because she cried right before they were intimate and seems to be a pattern
This sounds like an amazing movie. Based on your discussion, I also wonder if Natalie Portman's character is like the butterfly. Not only do they represent transformation, they also represent chaos (Butterfly Effect). She's coming in like the butterfly and acting as a sort of mirror forcing everyone to confront reality and themselves. Maybe Melton's character likes butterflies because underneath, he wants something to introduce the chaos that will shatter the controlling prison Moore's character has made and free him.
In many ways, joe is not a butterfly. He wishes he could be one which is why he finds joy in setting them free. He never got to spread his wings and fly away. It's probably anothe reason why he gets emotional talking about the kids graduating. They'll get to do what he's never done and he wants their lives to be better than his
Really enjoyed this review! You both touched on my favourite aspects of the film that a lot of other reviews haven't mentioned. I saw this film two nights ago and I'm still thinking about it; Charles Melton's performance in particular really broke me. His fragile, psychologically stunted behavior made me want a better outcome for him so badly. I hope he wins some awards for that wonderful performance.
I think the two women are an excellent example of narcissists. The movie really showed the colateral damage of Gracie's actions. Her oldest daughter seems to be the truth teller in the family, and she is consistently hushed when she does it.
Savanah is a weird place full of scandals and strangeness. Everyone just rolls with it. It's a darkness behind the sunny facade. Setting the story there was genius.
The baking scene was my favorite in that Gracie revealed herself. She projected her predatory behavior on to husband and tried to portray a victim. She was most loyal to herself.
I think the bowl of water is there as the limit. Gracie asks him to shower prior to bed. Signifying that she expects him to know. He's younger, he doesn't just know what she knows. Also, she is willing to accept his bedside water bath so he can console her. Liken to walking into the Catholic church. You go to the baptismal water and cleanse to be with God, essentially. That's what I got out of it. Water is a theme here. Water/saltwater is a cleansing agent. The swimming pool is like to the bible story about the Pharasees, clean on the outside but empty and dirty on the inside. Signifying Gracie's inability to her truth and responsibility of her actions/sins. She won't admit. Blaming her husband who was far too young to hold responsibility and the burden of truth. But the wrong person is cleansing.
You are so good at dissecting characters and relationships. Also I appreciate the mention of other films made by the directors/actors you’re reviewing and the mentioning of composers and cinematographers as well as production values. And you guys are fun! I also love spoilers!!! Carry on guys! 🎞️❤️👍🏾
I am looking forward to this movie but damn, hearing it unfold had me in shock. *Update: Saw it. Loved it. Probably the most disturbing movie in years because of the dialogue and what it was based on. I do think Elizabeth's intentions were somewhat foreshadowed by one of the people beside Joe barbecuing is that he saw her "naked" and "doing some blood ritual" instead of her Norah's Ark role.
I think Elizabeth is a reflection of Gracie. We see Gracie through Elizabeth. Instead of creating a story that retells what happened or what was on her mind it was done through the eyes of this B-grade actress. Elizabeth was attracted sexually to Joe but not beyond that, she likes the idea that she can manipulate this man-child, and that's the same satisfaction Gracie got out of this relationship. She hated the one with her ex-husband because she's not in control.
This was such a great review, with a surprising deep dive into the visuals and symbolism! I saw it at Sydney Film Fes in June and had no one to talk to about it, but this was so spot on!
I really loved this film, as uncomfortable and upsetting as the material gets. I just watched both the original and remake of Speak No Evil and kept thinking about the implications of living in a household where the sad and the difficult and even the abusive are never mentioned. This movie explores all that in a way that feels both delicate and honest
This is a film I’ve been so excited for. Glad to hear that everyone did a great job when it came to their acting and the film itself. P.S. making a mental note about the Netflix theater in case I’m ever invited to bring a pillow 😂
I like Julianne Moore and Natalie Portman.. however I didn't see this when my friend told me about the film. So I didn't see it because I don't support pedophila and how Hollywood has been glamorizing it in film. Anyway good job on the review guys!
6:33 the score is the least subtle thing about the movie and I love it. Everything is trying to keep the absolute depravity of an adult r***ing a teenager under wraps, but the score won’t let us forget what happened
I realized that one bit feom Friends had nothing to do with the main cast but a random couple with an obvious age gap making out after they said "I was his best teacher/And I was her best student". That was such a quick but obvious dig at Letourneau.
What did you think of the unused Chekhov's gun near the end? To me it felt like they suddenly scrapped the original ending and just stuck something else on instead. One minute she's walking through the woods with the gun, and then she's at the graduation, with no transition. I kind of felt like everything fell apart there. The final scene is great, but the whole graduation thing just confused me.
It wasn’t a Chekhov’s gun. It was showing her running away from her delusions and coming face to face with a predator, which was a reflection of herself.
Hey, fellas. I hope all is well. 😊I don't have Netflix; but, I feel as though this is very similar to Notes on a Scandal with Cate Blanchett and Dame Judy Dench. Even though that movie isn't based on the Letourneau scandal, it was about a teacher involved with one of her students. The movie was great, as was the novel upon which it was based.
This movie looks so good. I have a sad story related to this movie, i have an ex that went to highschool with Charles Melton, same year but not the same classroom. My ex had heavy alcohol issue, he was just destroying his life. I feel that there was a lot of pressure in highschool and college in that town to be "somebody", and look how far Melton has gone, but my ex didn't understand that to go far you need to work really hard and be the best among others, so he started failing and feel into depression and self destruction......it's funny my ex is super white and came from a whealthy family while Melton seems to be Filipino and i don't know his situation but he has been acting secondary characters for years, just a reminder that we can all go far but never take things for granted.
This movie is base on a real story of teacher, having a relationship with a 12-year-old student. Then eventually married that student later on, then divorce year after before she passed away. After been married for 14 years with two kids together.
I followed the Letourneau scandal and was curious to see what things the film might include, exclude or change - details like switching it from West Coast to East Coast, adding in the woman's baking business and the husband's butterfly hobby. Very interesting. I thought the whole thing was extremely well done (the acting was superb) and loved this review. Great job by all.
Thank you so much for this review! For me, the highlight of the film was the final few minutes where Natalie Portman's character plays a seduction scene. Her awkwardness contrasts with the way she described the sex scenes when being interviewed by high school students. It's as if the gravity of the story kept her from treating her work as easily as before
I watched this review for May December before I finally watched the movie and I really like the movie and Charles Melton absolutely breaks my heart with his performance as Joe. Gracie and Elizabeth are two sides of the same coin in my opinion. Charles Melton has the best performance in the movie. The movie leaves you with more questions than answers.
I remember the MKL whole thing- all the news articles/horrid details. But what I remember most: everyone saying it’s every boys dream to have this affair w/ the teacher”. I was a kid, and it made me think it was ok, too. I can’t wait to see this now!!! Thx ❤
Well, considering she was being charged and put in prison I don't see how anyone could get the impression that it was ok or every boy's dream. Certainly not that young! I knew full well that it was NOT OK!
This movie is base on a real story of teacher, having a relationship with a 12-year-old student. Then eventually married that student later on, then divorce year after before she passed away. After been married for 14 years with two kids together.
In the scene the daughter is trying on the dresses, there is a mirror ehich reflects her, so the audience sees two Gracies. Interesting, as this is true.
I think the bowl of water was there because she has these outbursts so often, he just has to be prepared for it, so he always has water handy on the bedside.
Even though I find situations like this incredibly disgusting I'm interested in this movie...mostly because of Julianne Moore and Natalie Portman. The way in which you guys describe this movie it doesn't sound like it glorfies these types of so-called relationships by any means.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this film. And, thanks for saying "She's being so Flazéda about it!" That made me smile. Nod to Pearl and still a good description of her reaction to the seduction...
The film really shows the duality of everything. Gracie wanted people (including Joe) to see her as an naive, harmless, but she is passive aggressive, manipulative narcissist. Elizabeth is also very similar (her manipulation is mainly used to further her film/career) - with her mimicking Gracie’s mannerisms as the film progress it holds a mirror to Gracie and it challenges Gracie’s worldview hence Gracie feels threatened. The background of the children‘s graduation along with Elizabeth’s intrusion have made Joe reevaluate his past properly for the first time. The town on the surface seems to have accepted Gracie/Joe’s relationship but as the attorney pointed out the sentiment is hollow.
This was a fascinating and strange movie. I remember the Mary Kay Letrourneau fiasco in the 90s and the idea of exploring what this dysfunctional family would look like 20-something years later is very interesting. This didn't land with me as strongly as I wanted but I felt it was quite good. I like how Natalie Portman's character was, in many ways, just as manipulative and predatory as Julianne Moore's character. Both of these women were snakes, very selfish, very manipulative and letting their desires take them to awful, not-ok places. The only difference is that one is a pedo, and the other is not YET a pedo but may become one eventually. Poor Joe basically got preyed on again, because he may be in a grown body, but he clearly had issues and was emotionally stunted. Awesome review!
I saw this movie recently. I have to be honest, i think this is a bland melodrama of the week tv movie. Great acting, especially Charles Melton as the husband. Nick loved it and Joseph said it is excellent but i will "grab" one thing Joseph said about it that i totally agree with, hence my disappointment with the movie: i really needed to know in which point the couple was in their relationship, if he secretly condemned her for their scandalous affair and everything. Talking about Portman's character, i was wondering if she was doing this investigative work because she was eager to play this defining role or if that was an excuse for her to be a slimy, sneaky, provocative person.
This isn't super related to gracie and elizabeth, but i also found it interesting how georgie and joe are character foils. Both are harboring anger, but have different energies. Georgie was unsettling because he's so volatile. You never know when he'll explode. On the other hand hoe is also clearly boiling inside, but doesn't seem as intimidating because he is emotionally stunted. It might seem strange because joe has his "own" family and a steady, reliable job, while georgia is more of a free spirit who doesn't seem to have it all figured out and life seems to be a mess, yet there is a confidence there that joe doesn't have in himself. They were both affected by the past in different ways. A past that very much still lives in the present though gracie tries to deny it
I cancelled my Netflix subscription some time ago. But I really, really want to see this, especially after this review. I guess Netflix will be taking my money!
There’s a scene in always sunny in Philadelphia where they say Dennis was raped by his teacher as a boy and he disagrees but he seems unsure-which is this movie. Anyhow, I enjoyed the analysis of this movie cuz it’s really subtle. I’m guessing the score was making fun of dateline or any other retro sensationalist true crime series circa the 90s
Common description of a romance between 2 persons of vastly different ages, more likely than not, an older man and much younger woman...May (early, younger) vs. December (late, older)
Nick mentioned 'excellent twice' and Joseph describes it as a "masterpiece" ... Movie of the week vibes, poll quote, makes it seem down to-earth yet, it's poking at black comedy...I'd watch for the female leads point of view!
For me I feel relieved that at least the people who made this movie understand manipulative narcissism. Most of my mother's friends and even her siblings don't seem to be fully aware of it. Are you like a blend of Gracie's kids and Joe? That's how I feel like I was, sometimes trying to calm her down, sometimes displaying hatred/anger to her face, only to be met with no guilty feelings from mom. What worked for me was a cold demeanour (no reaction to her drama). That would make her realize her manipulation was not working.
He stayed purely for the love of his own children. That scene on the roof with his son broke my heart. Both of those women were demented. 😢
as someone who has been groomed and sexually abused by a teacher at 12 years old + groomed throughout my entire adolescence by older men, i wish more movies would be as raw and realistic and even empathetic towards victims like this one is, regardless of gender and/or sexuality of both the victim and the perpetrator
Sending you so much love 😢
I'm sorry this happened to you. Sending you love also
I’m sorry
Thank you for your take on this! I thought it was VERY well acted and written. It was also too uncomfortable and disturbing for me to watch all the way through. After I saw what I saw of it, I wished I could ask someone who this actually happened to what they think of this film.
You said that you think Elizabeth is clearly attracted to Joe, but that’s not really it. She’s so method and manipulative and wanted to “seduce” him just as Gracie did. It was her goal and she succeeded. And that relates to her shallow transformation into Gracie. She’s a weirdo is what I’m trying to say. An amusing one tho
Yes, I think it was just a part of her research. She wanted to seduce him like Gracie did. When she goes to the pet store she reenacts the abuse in the backroom. Crazy! It's method acting to the extreme, and it turns her into a nut (like Gracie).
She's just as bad as Gracie another narcissist
I agree
Agree! She was doing research for her part
Agree, Elizabeth clearly does not need anyone, she relies solely on herself for everything, and always in control, much like Gracie.. the difference between them is that Elizabeth does not hide who she is, while Gracie never reveals het true character in the presence of others.
These two gentlemen are the best reviewers on TH-cam…period.
Just a theory, her rapid mood cycling could be borderline personality disorder which is not uncommon in people who were SAed as children.
When Gracie was hunting the fox, no one else is around to witness her true self, it is such a revelatory scene for the viewer. The close up of her face in that scene is the true Gracie. She’s far from weak or helpless prey, she’s the predator.
The roles gracie and joe play in nature speak volumes about their character
It sounds like Julianne Moore's character is a covert narcissist. Her ability to gaslight him sounds devastating; she audaciously blames her young, naive husband for her seducing him as a child. Furthermore, he is emotionally stunted because she has kept him emotionally dependent upon her by forcing him to navigate her unreasonable outbursts and volatile emotions, all while she is consciously manipulating him vua emasculation and control. It's classic narcissitic abuse.😢
Can't wait to see it though. Love Ms Moore's films. Great actress! ❤
RE: comments abt the daughters’ (dress and scale bizz) Did y’all not notice how a few scenes later Gracie is wearing that same dress she called her daughter “brave” for? I also feel like ya’ll missed the most important/revealing point of information Julianne gave during the “breakdown abt cake cancelation” scene … he asks “why did she cancel?” “…idk, her sister is sick or something… I WASTED HOURS MAKING THAT CAKE!!” Which gives us in no uncertain terms (pretty early on) validation of the fact that this woman does not have empathy for other people.
Yes they did at 21:20
Yes, that is the scene where she first see her emotional, outraged over a canceled order. Not sure if she used this as an opportunity to control Joe, showing him she is this fragile woman, that she would in fact break without him, as he later states to Elizabeth. The truth is that she does not have a fragile bone in her body. so do y'all think she really broke down, or was this an act, so joe sees her as needy?
@@beatsventura8813good catch. Much like Mary K Letourneau (til the day she died) insisted that Vili “was the boss” and was the instigator in their relationship from the start.
Mary K came off as this delicate, innocent, fragile flower. But underneath the facade you can clearly see the control she held over that kid. She knew what she was doing.
That was such a good movie. Like a psychological horror movie. I know people like Julianne Moore's character. People obey people like Gracie because they do not want to upset them. The guilt trips and the angry scenes can be neverending, as we saw when Joe tried to confront Gracie. It was very creepy at the end, when Natalie Portman kept saying to the boy who's playing Joe: "It's not that kind of snake." No. It's the kind of snake that wraps itself tightly around your body and slowly squeezes the life out of you.
The last take we see, she was practically moving like the snake too.
I enjoyed it as well. The characters were interesting and entertaining. I agree that people like Gracie are first class manipulators, are tolerated, as their motives are never clear.
Well considering 'Gracie' is based on a real person, they walk amongst us.
i think it did a really good job of showing the effect and aftermath of a victim. staying with someone who was your gr00mer into adulthood, and still being trapped like a kid. you could see it in his whole body. he was carrying so much unreleased trauma. his performance was beautiful! the movie did a great job of capturing just how creepy it is, from a perspective i haven't seen dine before. i mean even natalie's character talking on the phone about how the cast of the boy wasn't s3xy enough. like "the kid isn't s3xxy enough" HE IS A KID he is not supposed to be !!! and how at the end her tried to talk to his wife, and gr00mer and up til now she still treats him horribly. just in full control of him. and he caves like a little kid. is it not called fawning? it was just very well made.... HOWEVER, as a film, i don't know what exactly it wanted to say beyond that. it was messy and as a movie, it was not that good.
Charles Melton was quietly astonishing! His performance blew me away!!!
Honestly, he broke me. We know this is based on a real story, but we also know there are far too many survivors of sexual grooming. Melton played this with so much vulnerability, EVERYONE must surely be rooting for him xxx
I think I read somewhere that one of the main points of this film is that Elizabeth is over-invested in her acting to the point where she is just as manipulative as Gracie is. She is blurring the boundaries and becomes obsessive compulsive in the same way Nina in Black Swan became.
Great review. Did anyone else wonder if the man child was gonna leave his family at the graduation? I thought the bug that turned into a butterfly, that he let fly away represented him finding his own freedom and life by leaving his wife. Good movie!
Yo, good point! He might just be leaving after all! I was wondering what took him so long to find a space. Maybe that wasn't the problem after all. Then I thought maybe he just didn't want to sit next to gracie at the time, but ur theory explains his getting so emotional aside from simply being proud of the twins. He's probably going to find that bug group or person he's been texting throughout the movie. Maybe that's the same person he was telling Elizabeth about when explaining the caterpillars
I llike that they never spell out why Joe is the way he is. You could read it as arrested development due to his abuse, but I thought he was probably always like that. His neurodivergence is why Gracie singled him out in the first place. He was extremely vulnerable, and easier to control long-term.
Mary kay letourno did a TV interview with her husband a couple years back and I think that will fill in a lot of the blanks that you wanted to see because you really get an impression of how their relationship was.
Especially… she’s was whose the boss.. 😬 that interview she’s literally bullying to say who’d initiation the “relationship “ 🙃
Not her husband, her victim.
@@nicole71047I remember that! It was so uncomfortable, her husband was looking at her like he was embarrassed for her
There was a Lifetime movie in the early 2000s about Mary Kay Letourneau. It was called something like, "American Girl: The Mary Kay Letourneau story. I remember watching it as a kid when home sick from school, thinking it was one of those movies about the American Girl Dolls. No idea why I thought that would be on Lifetime but I digress. I remember it being an anger inducing mess. The movie portrayed her as this victim who didn't know any better or something, not an adult woman with multiple kids (one that was Villi's age) and a husband. I was maybe twelve when I saw that movie and I remember feeling such rage. Never before had I wanted to beat someone up more than I did Mary Kay Letourneau. I think even the name shows whose side they were on.
Yeah it’s on tubi. What stick to me how they portray him like he sought her out like what !? Never mind the “boy” look older not a middle schooler which he was🥴
@@nicole71047 Oh, that doesn't surprise me that it's on Tubi. So many Lifetime movies are on there. Honestly, given how the rest of the film was and how they portrayed her as the victim, it kind of makes the casting suspicious.
America makes A LOT of excuses for pretty white women. To some degree they are to be protected at all costs. It's so sick and messed up. This movie was excellent at portraying narcissists...they are predators and can be very dangerous.
Immediately after watching the movie, I looked for an update on Laturneau. They gave Barbara Walters an interview in 2015. Two years later he filed for separation. In 2020 she died of cancer.
What I found curious is that both her and Debra Lafave were bipolar. Debra cited this as a contributing factor in her poor judgement.
I watch other reviews channels, but you’re the only one I am subbed to. You’re incredibly professional - highlighting various technical aspects of filmmaking (score, acting, directing, cinematography, symbolism, editing, screenplay, etc.) - , you’re hilarious, you mention other films by the filmmaker, you are incredibly thorough and most of all, you don’t LOVE everything you watch, you don’t love a film just because it was made by a pedigreed director. I enjoy your reviews in so many ways and I respect the hell out of both of you.
Thank you!
I've watched a number of reviews of this movie (I honestly don't think I could handle watching the movie itself) so I kind of know more or less where things go, and I'm an old, so I remember this case from when I was younger. But just to prove I can still be surprised, there was a spit-take moment in there where I was like "wait... *Dateline* is still running?"
I am so glad you mentioned the size of his appendage. When i saw it, i had to rewind and take another look because i couldn't believe the size of it. And then i wondered "was that the whole point? This director has got me looking at Joe with lustful intent!"...and then i felt really disgusted with myself.
I dont know if it was intentional, but that moment alone made me realise these women may have desired the young boy / man-child but every fibre in their being should have stopped them exploiting him. Brilliant film! Xxx
I had the same feeling about Gracie - that he seems fragile, but she knows exactly what she's doing and she's a really skilled manipulator. The people in the community seemed nice, but the lawyer said that these are just a few people who try to protect her. I got the impression that she's still somewhat of a pariah in the community at large. I loved the scenes with Georgie and the ex husband, and the one where Natalie talks about the sex scenes and so on. It's a great movie and so much beneath the surface.
Being fragile is only a persona she used to maintain control. It is not her true nature, she is very calculated in everything, not one moment where her face will drip into her true self, which we later see when she is hunting.
I thought of his bedside washing as something a teen boy would do. Not wanting to take a shower, so they just wash up and move on.
Clever observation
He's 34 now. Not a teenager. I think he was just rushing so he could get some sleep finally. Probably had a glass of water by the bed and used that.
My thought was this happens a lot, she complains a lot and uses emotional manipulation on him a lot. Because she cried right before they were intimate and seems to be a pattern
This sounds like an amazing movie. Based on your discussion, I also wonder if Natalie Portman's character is like the butterfly. Not only do they represent transformation, they also represent chaos (Butterfly Effect). She's coming in like the butterfly and acting as a sort of mirror forcing everyone to confront reality and themselves. Maybe Melton's character likes butterflies because underneath, he wants something to introduce the chaos that will shatter the controlling prison Moore's character has made and free him.
In many ways, joe is not a butterfly. He wishes he could be one which is why he finds joy in setting them free. He never got to spread his wings and fly away. It's probably anothe reason why he gets emotional talking about the kids graduating. They'll get to do what he's never done and he wants their lives to be better than his
May-December? Looks more like January-December ... going to check out the trailer, love me some JMoore
Lmao
Leave it to Joseph to introduce a hilariously awkward phrase for movie oddities, "nebulizer sex scene." LOVE IT!
Really enjoyed this review! You both touched on my favourite aspects of the film that a lot of other reviews haven't mentioned. I saw this film two nights ago and I'm still thinking about it; Charles Melton's performance in particular really broke me. His fragile, psychologically stunted behavior made me want a better outcome for him so badly.
I hope he wins some awards for that wonderful performance.
I think the two women are an excellent example of narcissists. The movie really showed the colateral damage of Gracie's actions. Her oldest daughter seems to be the truth teller in the family, and she is consistently hushed when she does it.
Just watched this last night and I’m so blown away I have no words. Julianne Moore is a phenomenon and the entire cast did this just brilliantly.
Savanah is a weird place full of scandals and strangeness. Everyone just rolls with it. It's a darkness behind the sunny facade. Setting the story there was genius.
Makes sense for the title of the movie too! Seems bright like May but it’s really dark like December
The baking scene was my favorite in that Gracie revealed herself. She projected her predatory behavior on to husband and tried to portray a victim. She was most loyal to herself.
I think the bowl of water is there as the limit. Gracie asks him to shower prior to bed. Signifying that she expects him to know. He's younger, he doesn't just know what she knows. Also, she is willing to accept his bedside water bath so he can console her. Liken to walking into the Catholic church. You go to the baptismal water and cleanse to be with God, essentially. That's what I got out of it. Water is a theme here. Water/saltwater is a cleansing agent. The swimming pool is like to the bible story about the Pharasees, clean on the outside but empty and dirty on the inside. Signifying Gracie's inability to her truth and responsibility of her actions/sins. She won't admit. Blaming her husband who was far too young to hold responsibility and the burden of truth. But the wrong person is cleansing.
You are so good at dissecting characters and relationships. Also I appreciate the mention of other films made by the directors/actors you’re reviewing and the mentioning of composers and cinematographers as well as production values. And you guys are fun! I also love spoilers!!! Carry on guys! 🎞️❤️👍🏾
I am looking forward to this movie but damn, hearing it unfold had me in shock.
*Update: Saw it. Loved it. Probably the most disturbing movie in years because of the dialogue and what it was based on.
I do think Elizabeth's intentions were somewhat foreshadowed by one of the people beside Joe barbecuing is that he saw her "naked" and "doing some blood ritual" instead of her Norah's Ark role.
Love Todd Haynes along with these two incredible female leads. Im so excited for this one.
I think Elizabeth is a reflection of Gracie. We see Gracie through Elizabeth. Instead of creating a story that retells what happened or what was on her mind it was done through the eyes of this B-grade actress. Elizabeth was attracted sexually to Joe but not beyond that, she likes the idea that she can manipulate this man-child, and that's the same satisfaction Gracie got out of this relationship. She hated the one with her ex-husband because she's not in control.
This was such a great review, with a surprising deep dive into the visuals and symbolism! I saw it at Sydney Film Fes in June and had no one to talk to about it, but this was so spot on!
Nick looks so happy when he says ‘the score is so damn good’…I love to see Nick happy…❤
I really loved this film, as uncomfortable and upsetting as the material gets. I just watched both the original and remake of Speak No Evil and kept thinking about the implications of living in a household where the sad and the difficult and even the abusive are never mentioned. This movie explores all that in a way that feels both delicate and honest
Will sam and Aaron Taylor Johnson be viewing?
💀
That could help😅
Maybe Courtney Stodden too?
This is a film I’ve been so excited for. Glad to hear that everyone did a great job when it came to their acting and the film itself.
P.S. making a mental note about the Netflix theater in case I’m ever invited to bring a pillow 😂
Such a great discussion of this wonderful movie. ❤ 🎞️
I saw this film last night and loved it. Such great performances and subtext! I was leaning forward the whole runtime! So good.
I like Julianne Moore and Natalie Portman.. however I didn't see this when my friend told me about the film. So I didn't see it because I don't support pedophila and how Hollywood has been glamorizing it in film. Anyway good job on the review guys!
6:33 the score is the least subtle thing about the movie and I love it. Everything is trying to keep the absolute depravity of an adult r***ing a teenager under wraps, but the score won’t let us forget what happened
This story is making me cringe.🥴 a 7th grader?! Jesus!😢
I realized that one bit feom Friends had nothing to do with the main cast but a random couple with an obvious age gap making out after they said "I was his best teacher/And I was her best student".
That was such a quick but obvious dig at Letourneau.
Just like Mary Kay Laternou…
This was inspired by a real life story. Look it up.
What did you think of the unused Chekhov's gun near the end? To me it felt like they suddenly scrapped the original ending and just stuck something else on instead. One minute she's walking through the woods with the gun, and then she's at the graduation, with no transition. I kind of felt like everything fell apart there. The final scene is great, but the whole graduation thing just confused me.
It wasn’t a Chekhov’s gun. It was showing her running away from her delusions and coming face to face with a predator, which was a reflection of herself.
@@Sharpe1502 Still: unused gun.
Me : "Googling How to watch The Go-Between". I ❤ you, Nick!!
How old are the Latourneau kids. Now?
You guys are brilliant at what you do
They are
Hey, fellas. I hope all is well. 😊I don't have Netflix; but, I feel as though this is very similar to Notes on a Scandal with Cate Blanchett and Dame Judy Dench. Even though that movie isn't based on the Letourneau scandal, it was about a teacher involved with one of her students. The movie was great, as was the novel upon which it was based.
This movie looks so good. I have a sad story related to this movie, i have an ex that went to highschool with Charles Melton, same year but not the same classroom. My ex had heavy alcohol issue, he was just destroying his life. I feel that there was a lot of pressure in highschool and college in that town to be "somebody", and look how far Melton has gone, but my ex didn't understand that to go far you need to work really hard and be the best among others, so he started failing and feel into depression and self destruction......it's funny my ex is super white and came from a whealthy family while Melton seems to be Filipino and i don't know his situation but he has been acting secondary characters for years, just a reminder that we can all go far but never take things for granted.
This movie is base on a real story of teacher, having a relationship with a 12-year-old student. Then eventually married that student later on, then divorce year after before she passed away. After been married for 14 years with two kids together.
I haven’t wanted to see a film like I did May December in such a long time. Glad I did. Remarkable film.
Good review! Don't know if I could stomach seeing this because of the subject matter...
It’s an interesting movie. The performances were fantastic. Natalie being tantalizing at the pet shop by herself…. Love that scene.
In this scene she was so ridiculous.When I saw it in the movie I lawghed a lot. .Her acting was so affected and ridiculous.
I followed the Letourneau scandal and was curious to see what things the film might include, exclude or change - details like switching it from West Coast to East Coast, adding in the woman's baking business and the husband's butterfly hobby. Very interesting. I thought the whole thing was extremely well done (the acting was superb) and loved this review. Great job by all.
Just watched this movie and ugh it was so fantastic! Melton was amazing. Came here right after to hear your guys thoughts!
My favorite movie of the year so far… but I haven’t seen Poor Things or Zone of Interest yet…
The bowl of water is a southern thing.
I loved this review. I love that you go scene by scene. You are very perceptive and eloquent.
Love all your insights about these characters.
Thanks for the great review! Much appreciated. Hope you're both well.
📽🍿🥤🎫🎬
Thank you!
Thank you so much for this review! For me, the highlight of the film was the final few minutes where Natalie Portman's character plays a seduction scene. Her awkwardness contrasts with the way she described the sex scenes when being interviewed by high school students. It's as if the gravity of the story kept her from treating her work as easily as before
I watched this review for May December before I finally watched the movie and I really like the movie and Charles Melton absolutely breaks my heart with his performance as Joe. Gracie and Elizabeth are two sides of the same coin in my opinion. Charles Melton has the best performance in the movie. The movie leaves you with more questions than answers.
I remember the MKL whole thing- all the news articles/horrid details. But what I remember most: everyone saying it’s every boys dream to have this affair w/ the teacher”. I was a kid, and it made me think it was ok, too. I can’t wait to see this now!!! Thx ❤
Well, considering she was being charged and put in prison I don't see how anyone could get the impression that it was ok or every boy's dream. Certainly not that young! I knew full well that it was NOT OK!
Amazing review…really thorough .
Far From Heaven is one of my favorite movies, and Julianne Moore is one of my favorite actresses. I’m really looking forward to this movie
not me pausing the video to go back to see the eggplant I missed lol
I love your rapport, yall do not have enough subscribers
This movie is base on a real story of teacher, having a relationship with a 12-year-old student. Then eventually married that student later on, then divorce year after before she passed away. After been married for 14 years with two kids together.
In the scene the daughter is trying on the dresses, there is a mirror ehich reflects her, so the audience sees two Gracies. Interesting, as this is true.
I think the bowl of water was there because she has these outbursts so often, he just has to be prepared for it, so he always has water handy on the bedside.
Even though I find situations like this incredibly disgusting I'm interested in this movie...mostly because of Julianne Moore and Natalie Portman. The way in which you guys describe this movie it doesn't sound like it glorfies these types of so-called relationships by any means.
I have been watching from the beginning!!! Woo hoo we are at 29,000!!🎉🎉🎉🎉 I remember when we were at 17,000.
The Persona shirt is everything!!
This is a film I'm actually interested in. Actually not surprised this film is excellent. Very mary kay latorneau- esque
Inappropriate relationship, yes, but also a crime. She was convicted of child abuse and was sentenced to prison.
A lady friend understood that what Joe splashes on is maybe cologne.
To me it felt like just water, but not sure.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this film. And, thanks for saying "She's being so Flazéda about it!" That made me smile. Nod to Pearl and still a good description of her reaction to the seduction...
The film really shows the duality of everything.
Gracie wanted people (including Joe) to see her as an naive, harmless, but she is passive aggressive, manipulative narcissist.
Elizabeth is also very similar (her manipulation is mainly used to further her film/career) - with her mimicking Gracie’s mannerisms as the film progress it holds a mirror to Gracie and it challenges Gracie’s worldview hence Gracie feels threatened.
The background of the children‘s graduation along with Elizabeth’s intrusion have made Joe reevaluate his past properly for the first time.
The town on the surface seems to have accepted Gracie/Joe’s relationship but as the attorney pointed out the sentiment is hollow.
I discovered your channel from this video. I love your thoughtful discussion of this film. It has really stuck with me since watching.
This was a fascinating and strange movie. I remember the Mary Kay Letrourneau fiasco in the 90s and the idea of exploring what this dysfunctional family would look like 20-something years later is very interesting. This didn't land with me as strongly as I wanted but I felt it was quite good. I like how Natalie Portman's character was, in many ways, just as manipulative and predatory as Julianne Moore's character. Both of these women were snakes, very selfish, very manipulative and letting their desires take them to awful, not-ok places. The only difference is that one is a pedo, and the other is not YET a pedo but may become one eventually. Poor Joe basically got preyed on again, because he may be in a grown body, but he clearly had issues and was emotionally stunted. Awesome review!
Best review I've seen so far, you guys went into all the tiny details that others looked over. Great job!
I didn't realize he did the karen carpenter barbie movie. Love her
23:37 y’all got me laughing in my car
I saw this movie recently. I have to be honest, i think this is a bland melodrama of the week tv movie. Great acting, especially Charles Melton as the husband. Nick loved it and Joseph said it is excellent but i will "grab" one thing Joseph said about it that i totally agree with, hence my disappointment with the movie: i really needed to know in which point the couple was in their relationship, if he secretly condemned her for their scandalous affair and everything. Talking about Portman's character, i was wondering if she was doing this investigative work because she was eager to play this defining role or if that was an excuse for her to be a slimy, sneaky, provocative person.
I think Natalie Portman’s character was just slimy and a bad person. That movie did not seem like it was gonna win awards.
@@Sharpe1502 I totally agree with you.
This isn't super related to gracie and elizabeth, but i also found it interesting how georgie and joe are character foils. Both are harboring anger, but have different energies. Georgie was unsettling because he's so volatile. You never know when he'll explode. On the other hand hoe is also clearly boiling inside, but doesn't seem as intimidating because he is emotionally stunted. It might seem strange because joe has his "own" family and a steady, reliable job, while georgia is more of a free spirit who doesn't seem to have it all figured out and life seems to be a mess, yet there is a confidence there that joe doesn't have in himself. They were both affected by the past in different ways. A past that very much still lives in the present though gracie tries to deny it
Great commentary😀
Great review gents. Thanks!!
MB: The Georgie actor plays the Riddler on the GOTHAM TV show
Sounds very intriguing I’ll definitely be checking it out
I cancelled my Netflix subscription some time ago. But I really, really want to see this, especially after this review. I guess Netflix will be taking my money!
It’s in select theaters! 🎭
Great review. Agree with just about everything you both said.
Ah! I couldn't figure out why the score seemed so familiar.
I am mesmerized by the hands.
You guys got me excited to see this
TY. May give this movie a go, based on your review.
There’s a scene in always sunny in Philadelphia where they say Dennis was raped by his teacher as a boy and he disagrees but he seems unsure-which is this movie. Anyhow, I enjoyed the analysis of this movie cuz it’s really subtle. I’m guessing the score was making fun of dateline or any other retro sensationalist true crime series circa the 90s
I loved Georgie as well!
19:23 make my heart go boom. I loved this review.
But why is it called May December????
Common description of a romance between 2 persons of vastly different ages, more likely than not, an older man and much younger woman...May (early, younger) vs. December (late, older)
Nick mentioned 'excellent twice' and Joseph describes it as a "masterpiece" ... Movie of the week vibes, poll quote, makes it seem down to-earth yet, it's poking at black comedy...I'd watch for the female leads point of view!
This movie was a lill confrontational because having been raised by a manipulative narcissistic mother this is very very disturbing for me..
For me I feel relieved that at least the people who made this movie understand manipulative narcissism. Most of my mother's friends and even her siblings don't seem to be fully aware of it. Are you like a blend of Gracie's kids and Joe? That's how I feel like I was, sometimes trying to calm her down, sometimes displaying hatred/anger to her face, only to be met with no guilty feelings from mom. What worked for me was a cold demeanour (no reaction to her drama). That would make her realize her manipulation was not working.
"It's not that kind of snake 🐍"