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Not-So-Fun Fact: Apparently, the conversation the two dudes were having actually happened - Gen Urobuchi (the writer of Madoka Magica) was in a crowded train one night and two guys were having that kind of conversation right in front of him.
“Fun” fact: According to Magia Record, the Sho they mentioned had a girlfriend named Inui Itsumi, a magical girl who was shell-shocked by Sho’s abuse she felt like she could do nothing but cling to him and his every word, even with everyone around her, even Kyubey for fuck’s sake, telling her that he wasn’t worth her time (though Kyubey was mostly saying that because the more time she spends working herself to death for Sho, the less time she spends hunting witches). A lot of stuff happened (she was mostly a side character in a Nagisa-focused story, and ultimately she became a witch, and in the movie version at least we see Sayaka fighting her witch’s familiars sometime before or after this scene, don’t remember Uhrmann The canine witch, with a craving nature. She has taken on the form of a dog in the vain hope of being loved by all. Humans who enter her barrier can't help but embrace her in concern. One hoping to defeat her can do so by feigning love. By the way, Inu means dog in Japanese, and she’s the canine witch, and female obviously… she sees herself as a bitch just like Sho and his friends see her and women in general. Some of the last words she even heard were Kyubey thanking her for finally being useful.
She was also constantly defending Sho, saying that all of his critics were "just jealous" of him. She defended him to her last breath. You could say that was Stockholm Syndrome, or you could say that she sincerely agreed with his actions and lifestyle even while being victimized by it. Really fucked up either way. I guess if there's any lesson to learn from that, it's this: Just because you're in a relationship, that doesn't mean that your love isn't unrequited.
Damn, what gets me about this scene is how Sayaka must’ve felt. A main theme of this anime is girl’s sacrifice, and how it goes unremembered. Kyubey tells Madoka that her current standard of living is thanks to the sacrifice of magical girls in the past that she’ll never even know the names of. Kyoko secretly sacrifices to make her father happy, but when he finds out his success is not the result of him, but of her and her “witchcraft”, he is enraged and kills her mom and himself to punish her. Sayaka sacrifices herself for kamijo, and he’ll never even know it was her. By this point, sayaka knows her trajectory. She’s sacrificed everything, and she won’t even be remembered for it. She knows she’s been used up by society and is about to be thrown away. And that’s why she kills these men (not that they didn’t already deserve it lol), because they’re enforcing that this girl needs to shut up and know her place, that once they’re done with her there’s nothing she can do. It’s really heartbreaking.
Killing those morons might have been a little excessive. But I can’t imagine how painful it was for Sayaka to again bear witness to people taking the efforts of those who love them for granted.
not usually a dub fan, but the voice acting of the guys on the train was excellent. totally captured the “i’m a piece of shit and i know it” attitude people like them have in real life.
@@connor8292 the manga was produced after the anime, since its a anime original. So she very much did do it in the anime as well, the manga just decided to cut the subtlety
@leobastian_ The Manga is actually based on an earlier draft of Urobuchi's script, which left the end of this scene up in the air. (Note, the original 2011 adaptation. Hanokage did a redraw of the Manga to bring it more in line with the anime, excising all the rough draft elements.)
I was disgusted when I first watched this scene. Seriously, who talks about women like that? My parents would've disowned me if I made comments like those two men.
True, but in a sense it provides a greater perspective for Sayaka. Ever since she became a magical girl, she believed it is her destiny to vanquish evil witches and protect the innocent. But what if the innocent are proven to be more rotten on the inside than the witches themselves? Plus the despair she felt where even though she made a wish to heal Kyosuke, she didn't get to tell her feelings and ended up seeing another girl.
Even though she isn't my favourite character, this was one of the greatest anime scenes I've ever seen. The visualisation of the pure madness and despair is incredible! You can't only see it, you can feel it.
Sayaka speaks for all the people who had to put up with misogynic men that have no problems speaking about their crimes on public transport. And believe me, this is nowhere near as bad as the ones commonly found on trains (and buses) in Australia.
To everyone saying that Sayaka killed them, here is what director Akiyuki Shinbou and screenwriter Gen Urobuchi to say in the matter: "Urobuchi - The conversations between two hosts that was overheard by Sayaka were true. I was in a crowded train and right in front of me were two guys making that kind of conversation. Shinbo - Wanna add: Sayaka in the anime did not kill those hosts. Urobuchi - In the screenplay it could be taken either way, so in the manga version by Hanokage-san the interpretation was taken as killed" However, in the recent reprint of the manga version, which features new art by Hanokage, the scene plays the same as in the anime, so Sayaka doesn't kills them either in the new manga version.
I always figured it was intentionally left up to interpretation. Whether or not Sayaka kills them, it doesn't really matter. Hell, the only named character is a "Sho" which is a pretty common male name in Japan afaik. They're intentionally just 1-dimensional scumbags that reinforce Sayaka's despair and lead to her transformation into Oktavia.
Bruh, if I ever caught MY son speaking about women like that in general, I would've smacked him into an alternate dimension and disown his ass on the spot. I am definitely gonna teach my son to respect women and NOT be like those misogynstic wastes of space that Sayaka encountered.
When they aired this scene in Australia back in 2013 or 2014, they muted out the mens' conversation. I don't know if that made it better or worse, it just ended up giving me the impression that Sayaka waited until sometime after they finished up to confront them instead of cutting in...and honestly, that felt even creepier.
@@tulipplant9317 Absolutely. They *really* shouldn't have chosen to air Madoka on ABC3 of all things if this was what they needed to do to get in on there, it barely scraped by with getting rated PG.
@@tulipplant9317 I don't know if it's different for the full set, but out here each individual episode was PG...somehow. IIRC the train scene was the only thing that got censored. edit: apparently the full series is M
@@Justin-yt7piNot really cus in supplemental Madoka material, it turns out the girl they were talking about became a witch because one if the guys kept abusing her and dehumanizing her. So good riddance, those guys just made the world worse. On a side note: the conversation those guys were having is apparently a real one that the creator of the show heard men having in real life on a train and he was completely sickened by it.
Word of God says they weren’t unalived, but Sayaka made sure they were terrified. They would’ve left quite the mess, I expect. But I wouldn’t be sorry if she had ended them. And I just realized that this shows how a wish for an awesome boyfriend would go terribly wrong.
@@PeachWookieeWord of God doesn't really agree on the men's fates. Akiyuki Shinbo says no she didn't kill them, the first version of Hanokage's Manga adaptation says yes she did, and Gen Urobuchi leaves it up in the air. Personally, I think Sayaka was too far gone emotionally to show any kind of restraint at this point, and considering the people she was cutting loose on, I'm siding with Hanokage on this one.
Are you talking about the magical girl Sho dated that this asshole 1 mentioned? If you are then the reasoning would be because her self esteem was so low that she couldn't bare to admit to herself that the only person that she really knew cared nothing for her. If she could get proper support systems and then leave him then she would need therapy for all the trauma caused but she would be okay and eventually happy. Though without those support systems she would shatter. There is always a way out for people in these situations but it is often not seen for a long time because being in these situations often sucks away any belief in yourself, hope to live a better life, and often cuts off your friends and people who care about you. WIth that in play it sometimes it's hard to see that you are in a bad situation much less that you can escape. It is saddening but very real and someone in that position can be happier.
I think Sarah Anne Williams is a perfect casting choice for Sayaka in a dub and I really like her in this scene, but I am not a fan at all of how these two sound. I know they aren't named characters with important roles but idk the performances kinda took me out of the scene.
This was based on a conversation heard outloud in a train, right ? Why ? Just...why ? If you think your partner is wasting too much money, you talk to each other about it, you find middle ground ! That's what humans are supposed to do ! Everyone spends money on anything the others find a waste ! What kind of point were those two trying to make !?
They don't have a point, they believe that they are simply better, care nothing about women, likely believing women to almost be a different species. They do not possess proper empathy or have simply been raised so horribly that they are going to need years of proper therapy to get to a normal level. People like this exist and it is truely saddening
So the dub makes the guys actually sound like genuine people and you could actually see a normal person talk the way they did(also, exactly what is the maturity rating on this show?) but they completely fumble on Sayaka's anguish and frustration?
Making them speak with poorly informed (even by 2012 standards) hip hop vernacular has to be one of the worst localization choices I've ever seen. They butchered the emotional gravity of this scene worse than she butchered those guys with her big swords.
No I understand that... I just think the localization is corny! Very hard to focus on the horrifying misogyny of their actual conversation, when someone decided it all had to be filtered through a "YO THATS WIGGITY WACK HOMESKILLET" machine. They sound like they're goofing around. Nobody talks like this, it's very unserious.
Don’t get me wrong everything they’re saying is horrendous and disgusting but those voices actors must’ve been laughing their asses off for a couple takes like why the fuck do we have to say this😂😂😂
No? Like, it’s good? Mfs for real out there thinking that every voice acting other than Japanese sucks lol. (I’ve watched madoka magica in Italian, and then in Japanese, but homura’s deeper voice to me it’s just much much better in Italian for example)
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Not-So-Fun Fact: Apparently, the conversation the two dudes were having actually happened - Gen Urobuchi (the writer of Madoka Magica) was in a crowded train one night and two guys were having that kind of conversation right in front of him.
That's so sad
I bet that made his stomach churn. It sure would have made me nauseous hearing such dehumanizing language.
No wonder Gen is so cynical
I love how pro-women gen is, especially in Japan, like it’s so weird to see men like that
sad
“Fun” fact: According to Magia Record, the Sho they mentioned had a girlfriend named Inui Itsumi, a magical girl who was shell-shocked by Sho’s abuse she felt like she could do nothing but cling to him and his every word, even with everyone around her, even Kyubey for fuck’s sake, telling her that he wasn’t worth her time (though Kyubey was mostly saying that because the more time she spends working herself to death for Sho, the less time she spends hunting witches). A lot of stuff happened (she was mostly a side character in a Nagisa-focused story, and ultimately she became a witch, and in the movie version at least we see Sayaka fighting her witch’s familiars sometime before or after this scene, don’t remember
Uhrmann
The canine witch, with a craving nature. She has taken on the form of a dog in the vain hope of being loved by all. Humans who enter her barrier can't help but embrace her in concern. One hoping to defeat her can do so by feigning love.
By the way, Inu means dog in Japanese, and she’s the canine witch, and female obviously… she sees herself as a bitch just like Sho and his friends see her and women in general. Some of the last words she even heard were Kyubey thanking her for finally being useful.
Jesus.
She was also constantly defending Sho, saying that all of his critics were "just jealous" of him. She defended him to her last breath. You could say that was Stockholm Syndrome, or you could say that she sincerely agreed with his actions and lifestyle even while being victimized by it. Really fucked up either way.
I guess if there's any lesson to learn from that, it's this: Just because you're in a relationship, that doesn't mean that your love isn't unrequited.
@@Sluppiewhat a fucked up but realistic story.
I could be wrong, but it seem like Inui have a pet kink.(as in she likes to be treated like a dog… sexually)
uhh no
Damn, what gets me about this scene is how Sayaka must’ve felt. A main theme of this anime is girl’s sacrifice, and how it goes unremembered. Kyubey tells Madoka that her current standard of living is thanks to the sacrifice of magical girls in the past that she’ll never even know the names of. Kyoko secretly sacrifices to make her father happy, but when he finds out his success is not the result of him, but of her and her “witchcraft”, he is enraged and kills her mom and himself to punish her. Sayaka sacrifices herself for kamijo, and he’ll never even know it was her.
By this point, sayaka knows her trajectory. She’s sacrificed everything, and she won’t even be remembered for it. She knows she’s been used up by society and is about to be thrown away. And that’s why she kills these men (not that they didn’t already deserve it lol), because they’re enforcing that this girl needs to shut up and know her place, that once they’re done with her there’s nothing she can do. It’s really heartbreaking.
Director Shinbou confirmed Sayaka didn't killed them in the anime.
She didn’t unalive them, but she probably made sure they wished they were wearing brown pants…
@@tsukihana7839 yeah but gen the writer said it’s left up to interpretation, and in the manga he helped write it shows her doing it.
@@PeachWookiee it’s ambiguous
I rather like the idea of them being terrified by her. Left alive, but gibbering messes…
Killing those morons might have been a little excessive. But I can’t imagine how painful it was for Sayaka to again bear witness to people taking the efforts of those who love them for granted.
mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent
-Adam Smith
I disagree after hearing them talk I was so disgusted I was glad she was able to shut them up once and for all
I don’t think she meant to it just made her mad and turned her into a witch from what I remember but I may be wrong
@@poopee4992In manga she killed them
not usually a dub fan, but the voice acting of the guys on the train was excellent. totally captured the “i’m a piece of shit and i know it” attitude people like them have in real life.
i think sayaka being ingulfed by static means she transformed and killed them😊
IIRC that's what she did in the manga.
@@connor8292 the manga was produced after the anime, since its a anime original. So she very much did do it in the anime as well, the manga just decided to cut the subtlety
@leobastian_ The Manga is actually based on an earlier draft of Urobuchi's script, which left the end of this scene up in the air. (Note, the original 2011 adaptation. Hanokage did a redraw of the Manga to bring it more in line with the anime, excising all the rough draft elements.)
I was disgusted when I first watched this scene. Seriously, who talks about women like that? My parents would've disowned me if I made comments like those two men.
You be surprise how disgusting people can be. Its that basic lack of empathy and outright cruelty that made Sayaka ask why does she even bother.
@@kap1618 I read somewhere that Gen Urobuchi based this scene on an actual conversation he overheard while on the train.
@@sayyestofairness4266 I heard about that. Its no wonder many of his older works have such a negative view of humanity.
@@kap1618 I can imagine, and I'm not kidding when I say that I felt like punching those two men in the face. No wonder Sayaka snapped.
True, but in a sense it provides a greater perspective for Sayaka. Ever since she became a magical girl, she believed it is her destiny to vanquish evil witches and protect the innocent. But what if the innocent are proven to be more rotten on the inside than the witches themselves? Plus the despair she felt where even though she made a wish to heal Kyosuke, she didn't get to tell her feelings and ended up seeing another girl.
Even though she isn't my favourite character, this was one of the greatest anime scenes I've ever seen. The visualisation of the pure madness and despair is incredible! You can't only see it, you can feel it.
Sayaka speaks for all the people who had to put up with misogynic men that have no problems speaking about their crimes on public transport. And believe me, this is nowhere near as bad as the ones commonly found on trains (and buses) in Australia.
To everyone saying that Sayaka killed them, here is what director Akiyuki Shinbou and screenwriter Gen Urobuchi to say in the matter:
"Urobuchi - The conversations between two hosts that was overheard by Sayaka were true. I was in a crowded train and right in front of me were two guys making that kind of conversation.
Shinbo - Wanna add: Sayaka in the anime did not kill those hosts.
Urobuchi - In the screenplay it could be taken either way, so in the manga version by Hanokage-san the interpretation was taken as killed"
However, in the recent reprint of the manga version, which features new art by Hanokage, the scene plays the same as in the anime, so Sayaka doesn't kills them either in the new manga version.
I always figured it was intentionally left up to interpretation. Whether or not Sayaka kills them, it doesn't really matter. Hell, the only named character is a "Sho" which is a pretty common male name in Japan afaik. They're intentionally just 1-dimensional scumbags that reinforce Sayaka's despair and lead to her transformation into Oktavia.
@@Aisubun i think that if she didn't kill them she might have hurt them instead...
Bruh, if I ever caught MY son speaking about women like that in general, I would've smacked him into an alternate dimension and disown his ass on the spot. I am definitely gonna teach my son to respect women and NOT be like those misogynstic wastes of space that Sayaka encountered.
When they aired this scene in Australia back in 2013 or 2014, they muted out the mens' conversation. I don't know if that made it better or worse, it just ended up giving me the impression that Sayaka waited until sometime after they finished up to confront them instead of cutting in...and honestly, that felt even creepier.
I feel like you should leave that convo uncensored.
Woman's struggles shouldn't be silenced.
@@tulipplant9317 Absolutely. They *really* shouldn't have chosen to air Madoka on ABC3 of all things if this was what they needed to do to get in on there, it barely scraped by with getting rated PG.
@@connor8292 Wait, this show is PG?
@@tulipplant9317 I don't know if it's different for the full set, but out here each individual episode was PG...somehow. IIRC the train scene was the only thing that got censored.
edit: apparently the full series is M
@@connor8292 I never watched this show. Based on the scene, I thought it was an M rated show with kid main characters. Like South Park.
Sayaka kill the anime Top G before he own a Bugatti
Although I love this anime very much, as a girl… this scene makes me very mad.
Why wouldn't it? If I heard anybody talk like that in real life, I'd slap their sorry asses in the face.
As a BOY, this scene makes me very mad.
@@crweewrc1388 I'm a man. And if I ever had a daughter, I'd berate anybody who'd talk to her like that.
as a boy this scene makes me wanting to punch my monitor and i hope that after this scene sayaka just killed them or sth lol
the good thing is that this anime wants you to think/know they are assholes, its not siding with them. that said its still frustrating to watch XD
...Give them a taste of marbles, Sayaka
@TartarosGeer234 and yet at the end, she feels worse about them marbles
@TartarosGeer234
Sayaka: "I hurt me, I also hurt marbles. I feel worse about them marbles."
I was not expecting this when I first watched this scene-
I just realized they were saying this 💀
I don’t blame Sayaka for killing those jerks
@@bbfox188 it’s still kind of messed up that she murdered them
@@Justin-yt7piNot really cus in supplemental Madoka material, it turns out the girl they were talking about became a witch because one if the guys kept abusing her and dehumanizing her.
So good riddance, those guys just made the world worse.
On a side note: the conversation those guys were having is apparently a real one that the creator of the show heard men having in real life on a train and he was completely sickened by it.
Word of God says they weren’t unalived, but Sayaka made sure they were terrified. They would’ve left quite the mess, I expect. But I wouldn’t be sorry if she had ended them.
And I just realized that this shows how a wish for an awesome boyfriend would go terribly wrong.
@@PeachWookieeWord of God doesn't really agree on the men's fates. Akiyuki Shinbo says no she didn't kill them, the first version of Hanokage's Manga adaptation says yes she did, and Gen Urobuchi leaves it up in the air.
Personally, I think Sayaka was too far gone emotionally to show any kind of restraint at this point, and considering the people she was cutting loose on, I'm siding with Hanokage on this one.
1:12...she did...I don't understand why. Even Kyubey warned her of this guy, and the drone makes it a big deal to create suffering.
Are you talking about the magical girl Sho dated that this asshole 1 mentioned? If you are then the reasoning would be because her self esteem was so low that she couldn't bare to admit to herself that the only person that she really knew cared nothing for her. If she could get proper support systems and then leave him then she would need therapy for all the trauma caused but she would be okay and eventually happy. Though without those support systems she would shatter.
There is always a way out for people in these situations but it is often not seen for a long time because being in these situations often sucks away any belief in yourself, hope to live a better life, and often cuts off your friends and people who care about you. WIth that in play it sometimes it's hard to see that you are in a bad situation much less that you can escape. It is saddening but very real and someone in that position can be happier.
They deserved it 100%
Creepy fact: It was implicated that Sayaka killed those 2 guys in that scene
you mean FUN fact
No she didn't
She just scared them
@@female-sz1fs she did actually
@@female-sz1fs in the manga, we can see her walking out the train with a trail of blood coming off her sword
@@nanatsu_kingvendedordepao7116 Exactly
Since when was modoka magica boondocks 💀
BRO THIS DOES SOUND LIKE BOONDOCKS DIALOGUE WHY WOULD YOU MAKE ME THINK THAT
@@probablyjinxed Now it reminds me of Class of '09. 💀
I think Sarah Anne Williams is a perfect casting choice for Sayaka in a dub and I really like her in this scene, but I am not a fan at all of how these two sound. I know they aren't named characters with important roles but idk the performances kinda took me out of the scene.
Bro it's fucking CJ and Big Smoke having a conversartion
Hotel Mario: "No." 1:20
This was based on a conversation heard outloud in a train, right ?
Why ? Just...why ? If you think your partner is wasting too much money, you talk to each other about it, you find middle ground ! That's what humans are supposed to do !
Everyone spends money on anything the others find a waste ! What kind of point were those two trying to make !?
They don't have a point, they believe that they are simply better, care nothing about women, likely believing women to almost be a different species. They do not possess proper empathy or have simply been raised so horribly that they are going to need years of proper therapy to get to a normal level. People like this exist and it is truely saddening
So the dub makes the guys actually sound like genuine people and you could actually see a normal person talk the way they did(also, exactly what is the maturity rating on this show?) but they completely fumble on Sayaka's anguish and frustration?
This is officially the scene, where Sayaka goes full Suguru Geto.
Making them speak with poorly informed (even by 2012 standards) hip hop vernacular has to be one of the worst localization choices I've ever seen. They butchered the emotional gravity of this scene worse than she butchered those guys with her big swords.
The way those young men were speaking actually speaks to them being rough and poorly educated individuals. I think it works, honestly.
No I understand that... I just think the localization is corny! Very hard to focus on the horrifying misogyny of their actual conversation, when someone decided it all had to be filtered through a "YO THATS WIGGITY WACK HOMESKILLET" machine. They sound like they're goofing around. Nobody talks like this, it's very unserious.
Idk if you’re in America but yes people like those two irl actually do tend to speak in hip hop vernacular
What hip hop vernacular do they use tho? Like yeah they say "yo" and "for real" and stuff like that but other than that...
Don’t get me wrong everything they’re saying is horrendous and disgusting but those voices actors must’ve been laughing their asses off for a couple takes like why the fuck do we have to say this😂😂😂
I don’t remember this scene damm
Gezz it was funny at first but then it just worse and worse
How was it ever funny?
the voice acting is so bad omg
This is pretty good, actually. And try the dub of the original Voltron, at least as far as Pidge is concerned.
No? Like, it’s good? Mfs for real out there thinking that every voice acting other than Japanese sucks lol.
(I’ve watched madoka magica in Italian, and then in Japanese, but homura’s deeper voice to me it’s just much much better in Italian for example)
@@jacopomalatesta4913 concordo