@calhackit9806. Originally Tailas parts was meant for Lyta. But because she couldn't come back to the show after the premier so JMS trapdoored the Lyra charactef and replaced her part with the Talia character. But later the Talia actress wanted to leave and the Lyta actress was free again so he trapdoor the Talia character this time and brought back Lyta into her original part.
13:09 - The UFO saucer craft are the Vree. Remember back in Season 1 where the guy was suing the Grey-alien looking dude for abducting his great-grandfather and ruining his reputation? That's a Vree. The Vree are fascinating, though all their stuff comes up in ancillary materials and not the show proper. They are ridiculously advanced, but only about as old as humanity. They're not -quite- as advanced as the Minbari, but are literally one step away. They're basically what happens if 4chan trolls became a species. They worship what is basically the Goddess Eris and delight in practical jokes and pranks. They're also supremely capitalistic in an extreme laissez-faire way. They're also hyper-competitive. These traits is why they advanced so fast. While they have families, the primary social construct of their civilization are their guilds, which interact with each other through a complex and ever changing mesh of treaties and agreements. The worst intercine war the Vree ever had was because two individuals of different guilds married, the two guilds had a falling out, and they refused to get divorced because of it. The myriad of agreements and treaties led to a massive war; human xenosociologists called this The Romeo and Juliet War. They achieved interstellar civilization around 1930 and sent out scouts basically everywhere. One scout found Earth and ended up crash landing there in 1948. The surviving crew were rescued, but the Vree didn't find Earth to be particularly interesting or commercially viable, so basically just ignored it... until they discovered that Earth media became obsessed with saucer UFOs and aliens. The Vree thought this was the funniest damn thing ever -- that a minor crash could cause a massive cultural obsession in an alien culture -- that they started visiting Earth and mucking with things literally For The Lulz. They abducted people, mutilated cattle, gave anal probes, made mysterious prophetic statements to abductees (that were entirely bull) and generally just trolled Earth. When the Centauri made official contact with humanity, they thought the joke was over and stopped coming... Until they learned that EVEN NOW Earthers are still butthurt over the whole prank they pulled two hundred years ago. Vree love humans because we're the gift that keeps on giving. We're so easy to troll and poke fun of. Vree think Earth is the single greatest prank ever committed in the universe and they're delighted to be a part of it.
Yeah Anna is Melissa Gilbert, who was married to Boxleitner at the time. The earlier actress in the video message was Beth Toussaint. She was in a bunch of Trek.
Back in the day of the premiere broadcast, “Shadow Dancing” was functionally the S3 cliffhanger in my area - it works pretty well at that. Months passed before the actual season finale aired and S4 premiered the following week.
Delenn: "-If I may finish!" Some rando: "No!" *Absolute silence as Delenn finishes her speech.* Whoever that ambassador is, he doesn't get invited to the fun parties.
Can't wait to see the dance Jeff does on this one. There might be cartwheels. I think the thumbnail is Brent's "God damn it! Jeff is gonna be insufferable" face.
@@brentallenlive Kudos to him! Now, is there any chance, any chance at all that we'll get some sympathy for Dr. Franklin's plight in this episode?... Or will you guys just agree with alt-Franklin?
Imagine back in the day when the end of the season was approaching, *you did not know if the series would even be approved for another season*, and even if it was, it would still be months until there would be a new episode to watch...! It was absolutely excruciating, lemme tell ya. :D Get your butt ready for season 4 - it will be a ride like none other. I have never seen another TV show with so many big-hit episodes just piled on top of eachother either before or since like in B5 S4. And this with a full stable of what was it, 22 episodes per season in B5? None of that 6-8 episodes for a season sillyness we get with streaming TV these days... :P Crazy, crazy stuff. You're going to be soo entertained! If only I could watch everything all over again for the first time, damn. That'd be so sweet.
I really hope Jeff posts his reaction video. It was sooooo hard back when Jeff first said his prediction theory about Anna to keep quiet. It was funny watching Brent's reaction! Both of you guys help me make it through the work week! Love your videos!
This was an excellent episode. Really drives home the cost of bieng 'The One' with Delenn and Sheridan; sending off people to die for them in battle. And that battle scene.... wow. I did not expect to see Minbari with third degree burns gore in a Babylon 5 episode... The Minbari ships were the stations' saviours at the end of the Earth alliance battle, and the shadows ripped through them like they're made of paper! What a strange shot to see Delenn Sheridan in the same Minbari warship grey council room... the same type of room Sinclair was in when he was tortured and interrogated by the Minbari... they've Interesting to compare season 1 Minbari where everyone's afraid or resentful of them as fearsome foes. Look how far they've come... The franklin scenes are excellent. When Sheridan said 'someone who is your equal and opposite' I actually had a different thought than Anna... A much cooler thought of a Sheridan shadow-human hybrid doppelganger clone. It has all his abilities and tactical knowledge but secretly controlling the Shadow fleet.
Fighting Fantasy Book 17: Babylon 5 *Brown 7* : You have been mortally wounded, your life is leaking away and you must find help immediately. Do you: A) Crawl along the corridor towards an elevator shaft: Go to Red 2 B) Pull yourself up a ladder and stagger along the next corridor: Go to Brown 6 C) Stagger towards the Zocalo: Go to Red 5 *Red 2* : You have managed to reach a bar area where celebrations are underway; then some lady screams at seeing you. Do you: A) Lie unconscious on the floor to avoid the screaming: Proceed to Medlab 1 on a gurney and give your warning line there B) Say your heartfelt desperate line then pass out: Proceed to Medlab 1 on a gurney to do it all again *Brown 6* : You continue to stagger through Brown sector. Proceed to stagger towards the Zócalo in Red 5 *Red 5* : You stagger through the Zócalo, looking for a familiar face. Do you A) Fall unconscious to the floor: Proceed to Medlab 1 on a gurney B) Say your heartfelt desperate line, collapse onto a stranger, then pass out: Proceed to Medlab 1 on a gurney to do it all again C) Warn a friendly-looking security guard of what you know in a cryptic fashion and then expire: Proceed to the morgue.
Dogging Franklin's walkabout ordeal for getting long in the tooth feels kinda crappy. Dealing with addiction isn't something that you can just do on a schedule, it takes whatever time it takes. The fact that it ran for as long as it did makes it feel more honest than someone saying "we need a storyline that fills three episodes Der Der der"
I anticipate a slightly less exuberant show from Jeff about the Anna Sheridan reveal. I imagine Jeff with a French beret on his head and a cigarette between his fingers, saying in his best French Accent, "But, of course." Oh wait, Jeff can't do accents very well. Oh well, one can dream.
I have a longstanding theory that the other Franklin was a Shadow, keeping an eye on the station. It saw a dying human and decided to see if it could prod him into fighting to survive. (Others have theorised it was Kosh II, but Kosh II would never ask "What do you want?")
Naaaaaaaah, I don't think so. You know how it is: they blow the budget on a big space episode so they have to make the final episode all pretentious and shit so people will think they've had their minds blown by a minimalist cop-out. Then the episode gets a high series rank for being left-field while the few people who saw through are like "No you fools! That episode was shit! They just tricked you into thinking it was good!"
@threedoubleyoudotcom751 Possibly, but considering she's been "dead" for 5 yrs and he's been on B5 for only 2......Would you expect your dead wife to have a house key to your new house?
The DVD version really butchered the composite shots (shots with both live action and CG) which was mostly cleaned up in this HD version, but the composite shots are still a bit blurry like the split screen with Franklin or the first kiss of Delenn and Sheridan.
Ah Delenn and Sheridan, the right people, at the right time in the right place. Also a pay off from Sheridan keeping the secret when he had Morden arrested, isn´t it?
The Franklin splitscreen is pretty terrible by today's standard, but remember back when this was watched in Standard definition on a CRT screen, you really couldn't tell.
Jeff has been talking about Anna Sheridan coming back for 1.5 seasons now, and all of us were confused and losing our minds over the fact that he kept on repeating it that she would return. Personally I thought for a long time that he was spoiled, but I hope not and it's just Jeff's great deductive skills. I'm guessing he took the literary device of "Chekhov's rifle" and saw the signs that her being mentioned over and over is not a coincidence. Amazing that so far Jeff has gotten 2 of his major story building predictions correct. I expect a video of him dancing around with his crown again very soon :)
oh, it was just reading the clues, after the revelation of the Icarus was given, it certainly raised the possibility this would happen, and there were good reasons (literary devices) which also promote it once one sees the clue
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime (Not a spoiler) hope you won't expect the romance between Londo and G'Ka... I've already said too much :) . . . . . (this is a joke referencing a prank done by JMS on set to Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas once upon a time)
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime It gets a lot easier once you realize how JMS really likes to play the long game with stories, both putting in hints for future content and referencing old events later.This is also why B5 is one of the best series to rewatch as things get a totally different angle when you actually know the future.
Jeff is Emperor of the long-game prediction. With Valen and now Anna, he's the God-King. The great Shai-haluud. Moadib. When he made these predictions I cried aloud, threw my hands up and said, well that's the show.
If you’ve been watching the Brent Watches, then you’ll know I’ve secretly been on this train for awhile, despite what I say to Jeff’s face on the main show.
I know, I know, Anna Sheridan is back. Can we get Jeff a trophy already? He clearly deserves one! 🙂 And, after all, we have to get to him telling us exactly how bad Dr. Franklin was in this episode...
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime He does indeed and he goes and puts it on his head for a while. He also did not spot Anna in the titles. He wavered there for a little while (Is it Talia!?) but was obviously happy when Anna appeared. He also thanked everyone for not spoiling the Anna thing, so give yourself a clap on the back for keeping YT Anna-free for so long (or good jobs moderators!). I look forward to Monday.
I think no one has noted that it appears Brent watched this one right after doing the podcast.... as it seemed both of them planned on doing. Clearly, a prediction of the old school fans has come true. Do we get a crown, too? ;)
Brent is wearing the same top as for the AtRCONHP recording, so it is a fair assumption he went to this reaction pretty soon after recording with Jeff.
Correction: Brent DOES love this series. And so does Jeff. Watching one episode at a time is tough, but going any faster is even tougher. For the record: Brent’s favorite Trek is pretty much which ever one he’s watching at the moment, but Voyager will always hold a special place in his heart as it was his entry point into trek. Jeff’s favorite is DS9.
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime I always hold a special place for TOS, and don't try to rate it along the other series, so for all ST not TOS, DS9 is my favorite. Whether I think TOS or DS9 is better depends upon the day, and how I am making the judgment.
Regarding what you said, I agree, I think "traditions" & rituals are VERY valuable & important. One of the things I truly HATE about "so-called" 'progressivism' in the West is the near COMPLETE abandonment of EVERYTHING that came before! And the foolish, propagandized mindset of the younger "internet" generations that "Everything that happened before 'I' was borne was 'bad', 'racist', "evil", etc.". Granted, EVERY generation does that to a SMALL degree. (is a little less "traditional" then the previous generation) But I think the internet/ social media has really "floored the accelerator" & "dialed it up to 11"! I really hope there is a "backlash" or the "pendulum swings back the other way" in the future & there comes a revival of EMBRACING traditions & rituals. (religious, familial, ancestral, national, cultural, and so on) Because I truly believe we LOSE something precious of ourselves when we selfishly "turn our backs" so completely on them like we seem to be doing now.
I'm not sure there is a good answer to how long Franklin should have spent on 'Walkabout', I feel they got it about right here but it's definitely going to be a "Your mileage may vary" thing. It's also a little unclear exactly how long it was in real time, although we know that we're about 12 days on from the first "Z minus..." message, but the length of time to detox had to be covered at the very least.
Every season covers one year, and there are 22 episodes per season. So, there is roughly a fortnight between the episodes. So, in correct viewing order, the walkabout took about a month. In Brent's and Jeff's viewing order, it was about two months.
@@Nikioko That would only track if the episodes were spaced linearly. There is no reason to assume that, especially since this epsiode started at z-7, and ended at z-2 if I recall correctly. We have no frame of reference for how long it is between WWE and walkabout whichever order they are watched in. Also, it's the Lurker's Guide viewing order. It is as 'correct' as any other since it was JMS approved...
I was happy that his walkabout wasn't a "one episode" thing, as is common with these sorts of issues. It feels like Franklin had to actually deal with his issues over a long time, rather than a quick "that was tough, but wow we're perfect now" situation. And he clearly went through mutliple stages in his journey, ending with bleeding out in the hallway. It feels like 1-2 months, which is probably fast for real life but reasonable for a TV show.
Well, you're not entirely wrong about the trust thing. There are certainly two sides to the story here and it isn't hard to see either side. But you do seem to be forgetting that Sheridan and Delenn are being upfront here, telling the league everything they can honestly and when they can't tell them something still being honest about and saying "we can't tell you that yet." Whereas last week's Londo would have straight up told them an advantageous lie and organized it so the Shadows would hear, probably at their cost to make it more convincing. And when you realize that Vir has shown a lot more loyalty and trustworthiness to Londo than the League has to Delenn and Sheridan... well, Londo's character is not coming off well in the comparison.
True, But if Londo was like hey Vir, I have something for you to do, But i can't explain more, The telepath would pick up.on that as well and Lord Refa would be immediately Sus 🤔
@@Markus117d Absolutely fair. The problem I have with that is this is assuming that's the only option Londo has. Which is, ironically, underestimating him. The dude's shown himself the master of multiple methods of intrigue, I'm pretty sure he could have found another way to feed false information to his enemies if he really wanted to. He just figured this was the best cost vs. benefit analysis. And, given how that seems to value Vir, it felt pretty bad.
Back in thhe day JMS was quite active on what evolved into social media. Before the season finale aired he teased to the fans that we will finally learn of the motivation and goals of the shadows and probably one third of the audience will agree with them...
It's disappointing that the Anna reveal is slightly spoiled in the opening credits. But there are very strict and prescriptive SAG rules about guest star credits, it couldn't be helped.
Two things about the space battle were amazing. One, the chaos. There are no lines as we understand them There are just groups of ships in various locations, trying to pin down other ships and destroy them. One victory becomes another loss and vice versa. And also, the different weapons systems of the various people involved. That was always my problem with Star Trek: Deep Space 9. The space battles were too 2-dimensional. And two, you don't have to show in detail how the battle goes.Another problem with the space battles in Deeps Space 9. They were too simplified because they needed to be understandable on screen. Here we see ships destroyed and no idea how it is going until the Shadows retreat and even then it takes you a few seconds to understand it. And yet, there is no big cry of victory, as we see the wrecks of ships that didn't survive, which makes you feel their losses more when they say how they did in the battle. But the mind boggling thing? We have the first real victory against the shadows. Not just that the Shadows had to retreat, but they didn't achieve their goal either. On the contrary, the message that they can be beaten is out. We also have Franklin resole his problems and nearly dying. But all that pales against the reveal of Anna Sheridan at the end. The real shocker. Sheridan's literal equal and opposite, his wife. And with that the episode ends and all you can do is sit there in shock, no idea what it means or what is going to happen next.
@threedoubleyoudotcom751 It depends on how you look at it. The Shadows know exactly how strong everyone's ships are except for the White Stars. But if they focus on the known heavy guns like the Minbari, they risk the younger races ganging up on them, so they can't completely ignore the younger races. On top of that, a Shadow ship held by a telepath is an easy target for anyone. We are unclear how the Shadows actually command their fleet and who is responsible for their strategy. In this particular engagement they might not even had a big strategy as they were just going in and destroy a lot of mostly helpless refugee ships. They only turned up in such numbers to make sure they completely wipe the refugee ships out to max out the fear factor. Nothing scarier than a sudden silence only to find an fleet of destroyed ships with no survivors afterwards.
Ah yes, that thumbnail. So many of us were giggling madly to ourselves when Jeff first floated his prediction about Anna Sheridan waaaaaaay back when.
As JMS has said - paraphrasing ' If you create a thread at the start, you have to pick it up later'....
and all the discussions connected to it since then; of course, it is all in good fun (or should be).
@calhackit9806 some threads are just weak. Others are subject to the whims of others, so have to be killed and disec--.
@calhackit9806. Originally Tailas parts was meant for Lyta. But because she couldn't come back to the show after the premier so JMS trapdoored the Lyra charactef and replaced her part with the Talia character. But later the Talia actress wanted to leave and the Lyta actress was free again so he trapdoor the Talia character this time and brought back Lyta into her original part.
@@Duke00x that's spoilers dude.
13:09 - The UFO saucer craft are the Vree. Remember back in Season 1 where the guy was suing the Grey-alien looking dude for abducting his great-grandfather and ruining his reputation? That's a Vree.
The Vree are fascinating, though all their stuff comes up in ancillary materials and not the show proper. They are ridiculously advanced, but only about as old as humanity. They're not -quite- as advanced as the Minbari, but are literally one step away. They're basically what happens if 4chan trolls became a species.
They worship what is basically the Goddess Eris and delight in practical jokes and pranks. They're also supremely capitalistic in an extreme laissez-faire way. They're also hyper-competitive. These traits is why they advanced so fast. While they have families, the primary social construct of their civilization are their guilds, which interact with each other through a complex and ever changing mesh of treaties and agreements. The worst intercine war the Vree ever had was because two individuals of different guilds married, the two guilds had a falling out, and they refused to get divorced because of it. The myriad of agreements and treaties led to a massive war; human xenosociologists called this The Romeo and Juliet War.
They achieved interstellar civilization around 1930 and sent out scouts basically everywhere. One scout found Earth and ended up crash landing there in 1948. The surviving crew were rescued, but the Vree didn't find Earth to be particularly interesting or commercially viable, so basically just ignored it... until they discovered that Earth media became obsessed with saucer UFOs and aliens.
The Vree thought this was the funniest damn thing ever -- that a minor crash could cause a massive cultural obsession in an alien culture -- that they started visiting Earth and mucking with things literally For The Lulz. They abducted people, mutilated cattle, gave anal probes, made mysterious prophetic statements to abductees (that were entirely bull) and generally just trolled Earth. When the Centauri made official contact with humanity, they thought the joke was over and stopped coming...
Until they learned that EVEN NOW Earthers are still butthurt over the whole prank they pulled two hundred years ago. Vree love humans because we're the gift that keeps on giving. We're so easy to troll and poke fun of. Vree think Earth is the single greatest prank ever committed in the universe and they're delighted to be a part of it.
That is just some awesome lore, thanks for sharing it.
Love those ships!
@@brandonvaughn7255 No problem! Happy you enjoyed. :)
Even Franklin gets a positive statement from Brent. Well done.
“What are you?”
“Alive. Everything else is negotiable.”
Yeah Anna is Melissa Gilbert, who was married to Boxleitner at the time.
The earlier actress in the video message was Beth Toussaint. She was in a bunch of Trek.
Including Tasha Yar’s sister, if I remember correctly
Back in the day of the premiere broadcast, “Shadow Dancing” was functionally the S3 cliffhanger in my area - it works pretty well at that. Months passed before the actual season finale aired and S4 premiered the following week.
That's a pretty cool cliffhanger. We had the long break here after WWE. They held the rest of season 3 until the fall tv season started.
Delenn: "-If I may finish!"
Some rando: "No!"
*Absolute silence as Delenn finishes her speech.*
Whoever that ambassador is, he doesn't get invited to the fun parties.
Yeah! a solid episode, and an excellent entry into the season finale. Looking forward to hearing your predictions for that on Monday.
Be seeing you!
Can't wait to see the dance Jeff does on this one. There might be cartwheels. I think the thumbnail is Brent's "God damn it! Jeff is gonna be insufferable" face.
I think that’s literally exactly what I said
@@brentallenlive Hope Jeff posts the scene where he called it... Big time. ( now crown his ass )
@@brentallenlive Kudos to him! Now, is there any chance, any chance at all that we'll get some sympathy for Dr. Franklin's plight in this episode?... Or will you guys just agree with alt-Franklin?
@@brentallenlive that just means you need to up your game for predictions in S4; I know you can do it!
Melissa Gilbert was married with Bruce Boxleitner in the 1990's, so they recast the actress that play Anna Sheridan to put her.
That actress also played Tasha Yar's sister, Ishara Yar, in the STNG episode "Legacy".
@@readhistory2023 The other actress, that is, who initially played her - Beth Toussaint.
Actually they couldn't find Beth Toussaint (ty ohauss) at the time they were filming so that's why they went with Melissa.
No, Delenn & Sharidan were not on/using the Grey Council headquarters. Any of the heavy cruisers have a tactical room like that.
Imagine back in the day when the end of the season was approaching, *you did not know if the series would even be approved for another season*, and even if it was, it would still be months until there would be a new episode to watch...!
It was absolutely excruciating, lemme tell ya. :D
Get your butt ready for season 4 - it will be a ride like none other. I have never seen another TV show with so many big-hit episodes just piled on top of eachother either before or since like in B5 S4. And this with a full stable of what was it, 22 episodes per season in B5? None of that 6-8 episodes for a season sillyness we get with streaming TV these days... :P Crazy, crazy stuff.
You're going to be soo entertained! If only I could watch everything all over again for the first time, damn. That'd be so sweet.
don't over-hype the season-- it is my favorite season, but there are still issues one can have with much of it
I really hope Jeff posts his reaction video. It was sooooo hard back when Jeff first said his prediction theory about Anna to keep quiet. It was funny watching Brent's reaction! Both of you guys help me make it through the work week! Love your videos!
It's up! And THANK YOU for keeping quiet!
And in a wonderful moment of synchronicity, Anna Sheridan was played by Melissa Gilbert, Bruce's then real-life wife!
Jeff is the King of Predictions!! He got the most important things right.
He even called Franklin out on being a jerk, something very few others have noticed.
This was an excellent episode. Really drives home the cost of bieng 'The One' with Delenn and Sheridan; sending off people to die for them in battle. And that battle scene.... wow. I did not expect to see Minbari with third degree burns gore in a Babylon 5 episode... The Minbari ships were the stations' saviours at the end of the Earth alliance battle, and the shadows ripped through them like they're made of paper! What a strange shot to see Delenn Sheridan in the same Minbari warship grey council room... the same type of room Sinclair was in when he was tortured and interrogated by the Minbari... they've Interesting to compare season 1 Minbari where everyone's afraid or resentful of them as fearsome foes. Look how far they've come... The franklin scenes are excellent. When Sheridan said 'someone who is your equal and opposite' I actually had a different thought than Anna... A much cooler thought of a Sheridan shadow-human hybrid doppelganger clone. It has all his abilities and tactical knowledge but secretly controlling the Shadow fleet.
Yeah Sheridan the Starkiller in the heart of a Minbari warship as a friend and ally. Who'd have thought?
16:30 To paraphrase Jack Sparrow, "There'll be no living with him after this."
I waited years for this one first broadcast.
Can’t wait for you to see the next episode!
Fighting Fantasy Book 17: Babylon 5
*Brown 7* : You have been mortally wounded, your life is leaking away and you must find help immediately. Do you:
A) Crawl along the corridor towards an elevator shaft: Go to Red 2
B) Pull yourself up a ladder and stagger along the next corridor: Go to Brown 6
C) Stagger towards the Zocalo: Go to Red 5
*Red 2* : You have managed to reach a bar area where celebrations are underway; then some lady screams at seeing you. Do you:
A) Lie unconscious on the floor to avoid the screaming: Proceed to Medlab 1 on a gurney and give your warning line there
B) Say your heartfelt desperate line then pass out: Proceed to Medlab 1 on a gurney to do it all again
*Brown 6* : You continue to stagger through Brown sector. Proceed to stagger towards the Zócalo in Red 5
*Red 5* : You stagger through the Zócalo, looking for a familiar face. Do you
A) Fall unconscious to the floor: Proceed to Medlab 1 on a gurney
B) Say your heartfelt desperate line, collapse onto a stranger, then pass out: Proceed to Medlab 1 on a gurney to do it all again
C) Warn a friendly-looking security guard of what you know in a cryptic fashion and then expire: Proceed to the morgue.
@@calhackit9806 Actually Garibaldi threatened people with spacing on numerous occasions before that episode with that particualar comment.
Garibaldi is an eye-for-an-eye tooth-for-a-tooth kinda guy
@@ianstopher9111 Delenn: "Then you end up with a world full of toothless blind people." Garibaldi: "Yes, but only the bad ones."
Dogging Franklin's walkabout ordeal for getting long in the tooth feels kinda crappy. Dealing with addiction isn't something that you can just do on a schedule, it takes whatever time it takes. The fact that it ran for as long as it did makes it feel more honest than someone saying "we need a storyline that fills three episodes Der Der der"
I anticipate a slightly less exuberant show from Jeff about the Anna Sheridan reveal. I imagine Jeff with a French beret on his head and a cigarette between his fingers, saying in his best French Accent, "But, of course." Oh wait, Jeff can't do accents very well. Oh well, one can dream.
At the time this episode was filmed, Melissa Gilbert (Anna) was married to Boxleitner. They split in 2011.
Not the grey council headquarters, but using a similar kind of tech
I have a longstanding theory that the other Franklin was a Shadow, keeping an eye on the station. It saw a dying human and decided to see if it could prod him into fighting to survive.
(Others have theorised it was Kosh II, but Kosh II would never ask "What do you want?")
Great isn't it?... I wonder if they could possibly top it in the next episode for the season finale?....
Naaaaaaaah, I don't think so. You know how it is: they blow the budget on a big space episode so they have to make the final episode all pretentious and shit so people will think they've had their minds blown by a minimalist cop-out. Then the episode gets a high series rank for being left-field while the few people who saw through are like "No you fools! That episode was shit! They just tricked you into thinking it was good!"
Red flag #1: Your wife who has been declared dead for ages, knows you're seeing a new girlfriend and just walks right into your room anyway.
This is one of those I've waited to see you see first.
The Minbari area isn't the Grey Council chamber (three lights instead of nine). Think of it more as a Flag Bridge.
This Anna, Melissa Gilbert and Bruce Boxleitner were married in real life during this time if I am not mistaken.
if I remember correctly, they wanted the original Anna, but she couldn't do it; Melissa was free, and the rest is history
This is correct. They got his wife to play his wife.
Yep. She got elected to the head of the Actors Union a couple of years after this aired.
So I guess anyone can just walk into the captain’s quarters in the middle of the night?
That'll teach him to not regularly change his password......
@threedoubleyoudotcom751 Possibly, but considering she's been "dead" for 5 yrs and he's been on B5 for only 2......Would you expect your dead wife to have a house key to your new house?
It’s his favorite passcode. He saw no need to change it. The only other person with it was his wife, and she is dead…
Let the drumroll ... BEGIN ...
37 hours? Oh man! This is cruel, Brent! 😂
Just wanted to make sure it wasn’t late
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTimeI feel like I've seen this whole react in just that thumbnail.
So here we are at the end of Season Three. 😁
The DVD version really butchered the composite shots (shots with both live action and CG) which was mostly cleaned up in this HD version, but the composite shots are still a bit blurry like the split screen with Franklin or the first kiss of Delenn and Sheridan.
Ah Delenn and Sheridan, the right people, at the right time in the right place.
Also a pay off from Sheridan keeping the secret when he had Morden arrested, isn´t it?
you are gonna love the next one
The Franklin splitscreen is pretty terrible by today's standard, but remember back when this was watched in Standard definition on a CRT screen, you really couldn't tell.
I hope we non-members can see Jeff's reaction to Anna, even if just as a short. :D
It's up!
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime Thanks!
Jeff has been talking about Anna Sheridan coming back for 1.5 seasons now, and all of us were confused and losing our minds over the fact that he kept on repeating it that she would return. Personally I thought for a long time that he was spoiled, but I hope not and it's just Jeff's great deductive skills. I'm guessing he took the literary device of "Chekhov's rifle" and saw the signs that her being mentioned over and over is not a coincidence. Amazing that so far Jeff has gotten 2 of his major story building predictions correct. I expect a video of him dancing around with his crown again very soon :)
oh, it was just reading the clues, after the revelation of the Icarus was given, it certainly raised the possibility this would happen, and there were good reasons (literary devices) which also promote it once one sees the clue
Honestly it was kinda obvious as the show goes on…
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime (Not a spoiler) hope you won't expect the romance between Londo and G'Ka... I've already said too much :)
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(this is a joke referencing a prank done by JMS on set to Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas once upon a time)
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime It gets a lot easier once you realize how JMS really likes to play the long game with stories, both putting in hints for future content and referencing old events later.This is also why B5 is one of the best series to rewatch as things get a totally different angle when you actually know the future.
@@Petrosman Londo mentioned that alternative universe storyline in his recording for Jeff and Brent
NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I can't wait that long. Also, who is the King of Predictions now?
I was thinking the same thing. I hope Jeff hasn’t put away that crown
Jeff is Emperor of the long-game prediction. With Valen and now Anna, he's the God-King. The great Shai-haluud. Moadib. When he made these predictions I cried aloud, threw my hands up and said, well that's the show.
Jeff predicted both Sinclair being Valen and "Mordenized" Anna Sheridan. Hard for Brent to catch up on that.
If you’ve been watching the Brent Watches, then you’ll know I’ve secretly been on this train for awhile, despite what I say to Jeff’s face on the main show.
How come you put this up before uploading it on patreon?
Don’t worry. It will release on patreon well before this goes live.
@@brentallenlive thank you!
That thumbnail is quite a mystery. It says "I'm Anna Sheridan, John's ______________". The blank could be anything!
John's bed buddy? John's better angel? John's better half?
these are lame....finish the statement...John's____________________
mother.
I thought of something slightly less printable than bed buddy
@@ianstopher9111 mistress? Or mattress?
'John's insufferable little sister. The other one.'
The flying saucers are the Vree.
lol on screenshot
An epic episode - if you don't want to watch the next one straight after, there's no hope ;)
Imagine if this had been the finale. What a soap cliff-hanger that would be!
Can’t watch until we record the main show. But as soon as we press “Stop Record” the next episode is fair game.
We remember the rush to wrap up the discussion of WWE1: 5 stars, new #1, let's get out of here...
I know, I know, Anna Sheridan is back. Can we get Jeff a trophy already? He clearly deserves one! 🙂 And, after all, we have to get to him telling us exactly how bad Dr. Franklin was in this episode...
He literally has a crown...
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime He does indeed and he goes and puts it on his head for a while. He also did not spot Anna in the titles. He wavered there for a little while (Is it Talia!?) but was obviously happy when Anna appeared. He also thanked everyone for not spoiling the Anna thing, so give yourself a clap on the back for keeping YT Anna-free for so long (or good jobs moderators!). I look forward to Monday.
👑🏆🎉
John's wife played by Bruce's wife
I just typed Anna Sheridan meme into a popular search engine and the first result is the above screengrab.
Dr. Franklin redemption? 🤣🤣🤣
I wished!...
The Redemption of Stephen Franklin
He wants to do it all again. Literally Babylon 5 for the Second Time. Let's all watch Believers again.
@@ianstopher9111 He'll end up making the same decisions again and again. When you had that kind of father, it's pretty hard to change...
So maybe he's learnt one lesson. But what about the womanizing?
I think no one has noted that it appears Brent watched this one right after doing the podcast.... as it seemed both of them planned on doing. Clearly, a prediction of the old school fans has come true. Do we get a crown, too? ;)
They did say a couple of weeks ago that their schedules might require a change in their recording times
Brent is wearing the same top as for the AtRCONHP recording, so it is a fair assumption he went to this reaction pretty soon after recording with Jeff.
Correction: Brent DOES love this series. And so does Jeff. Watching one episode at a time is tough, but going any faster is even tougher.
For the record: Brent’s favorite Trek is pretty much which ever one he’s watching at the moment, but Voyager will always hold a special place in his heart as it was his entry point into trek.
Jeff’s favorite is DS9.
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime I do have a fondness for Scorpion Parts 1&2.
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime I always hold a special place for TOS, and don't try to rate it along the other series, so for all ST not TOS, DS9 is my favorite. Whether I think TOS or DS9 is better depends upon the day, and how I am making the judgment.
I remember I had to pick my jaw off the floor when Jeff made his Anna prediction back in season one.
season two
@@hornorsilk2901 You're right! Early S2...Sheridan wasn't there for S1. My lapse; thanks for the save.
@@olivedempsey1654 sometimes, everything gets confused as to when things happen -- especially a show like B5 which does have arcs
Regarding what you said, I agree, I think "traditions" & rituals are VERY valuable & important.
One of the things I truly HATE about "so-called" 'progressivism' in the West is the near COMPLETE abandonment of EVERYTHING that came before! And the foolish, propagandized mindset of the younger "internet" generations that "Everything that happened before 'I' was borne was 'bad', 'racist', "evil", etc.".
Granted, EVERY generation does that to a SMALL degree. (is a little less "traditional" then the previous generation) But I think the internet/ social media has really "floored the accelerator" & "dialed it up to 11"!
I really hope there is a "backlash" or the "pendulum swings back the other way" in the future & there comes a revival of EMBRACING traditions & rituals. (religious, familial, ancestral, national, cultural, and so on)
Because I truly believe we LOSE something precious of ourselves when we selfishly "turn our backs" so completely on them like we seem to be doing now.
So, Brent.. how would you like your crow served? lol
I'm not sure there is a good answer to how long Franklin should have spent on 'Walkabout', I feel they got it about right here but it's definitely going to be a "Your mileage may vary" thing. It's also a little unclear exactly how long it was in real time, although we know that we're about 12 days on from the first "Z minus..." message, but the length of time to detox had to be covered at the very least.
Every season covers one year, and there are 22 episodes per season. So, there is roughly a fortnight between the episodes. So, in correct viewing order, the walkabout took about a month. In Brent's and Jeff's viewing order, it was about two months.
@@Nikioko That would only track if the episodes were spaced linearly. There is no reason to assume that, especially since this epsiode started at z-7, and ended at z-2 if I recall correctly. We have no frame of reference for how long it is between WWE and walkabout whichever order they are watched in.
Also, it's the Lurker's Guide viewing order. It is as 'correct' as any other since it was JMS approved...
I was happy that his walkabout wasn't a "one episode" thing, as is common with these sorts of issues. It feels like Franklin had to actually deal with his issues over a long time, rather than a quick "that was tough, but wow we're perfect now" situation. And he clearly went through mutliple stages in his journey, ending with bleeding out in the hallway.
It feels like 1-2 months, which is probably fast for real life but reasonable for a TV show.
Well, you're not entirely wrong about the trust thing. There are certainly two sides to the story here and it isn't hard to see either side. But you do seem to be forgetting that Sheridan and Delenn are being upfront here, telling the league everything they can honestly and when they can't tell them something still being honest about and saying "we can't tell you that yet." Whereas last week's Londo would have straight up told them an advantageous lie and organized it so the Shadows would hear, probably at their cost to make it more convincing. And when you realize that Vir has shown a lot more loyalty and trustworthiness to Londo than the League has to Delenn and Sheridan... well, Londo's character is not coming off well in the comparison.
True, But if Londo was like hey Vir, I have something for you to do, But i can't explain more, The telepath would pick up.on that as well and Lord Refa would be immediately Sus 🤔
@@Markus117d Absolutely fair. The problem I have with that is this is assuming that's the only option Londo has. Which is, ironically, underestimating him. The dude's shown himself the master of multiple methods of intrigue, I'm pretty sure he could have found another way to feed false information to his enemies if he really wanted to. He just figured this was the best cost vs. benefit analysis. And, given how that seems to value Vir, it felt pretty bad.
I did try and warn you both not to look at the guest staring credits on this episode, Sadly you didn't see my warning or No one passed it on.. 👍
No one, no one listen to poor Markus.
@@samsonau8205 Lol.. It's Ok Markus is used to it 🤣
Listen carefully: MARKus
You have to put on the Jeff watches babyolon 5 so we can see the feild goal dance of him taking the lead in I called that contest Kosk and Anna
It's up! At least a preview of it
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime Hail to the King
Back in thhe day JMS was quite active on what evolved into social media. Before the season finale aired he teased to the fans that we will finally learn of the motivation and goals of the shadows and probably one third of the audience will agree with them...
Melissa Gilbert...was then Bruce Boxleitners real life wife
"A Minus 1.625 Days"
What? You thought the 'Z minus' thing was about the battle?
39 hours away? Tease
hmm....wouldn't that be 39 STANDARD Hours? lol
@@meistro727 😂😂 I see what you did there
R -38 hours
Z Minus 3 Days.
It's disappointing that the Anna reveal is slightly spoiled in the opening credits. But there are very strict and prescriptive SAG rules about guest star credits, it couldn't be helped.
I guess leaving off Anna's last name was the best compromise they could get.
Even the Witcher would not save Franklin.
@1:00 you people down below - I see what you did there
I lurk, you lurk, he/she/it lurks ...
That was a very spoiliery opening credit. I assume it was some sort of legal obligation.
Yes.
I heard "access" to her "panelling".
Z minus seven days....
Z minus is just a countdown timer.
Two things about the space battle were amazing. One, the chaos. There are no lines as we understand them There are just groups of ships in various locations, trying to pin down other ships and destroy them. One victory becomes another loss and vice versa. And also, the different weapons systems of the various people involved.
That was always my problem with Star Trek: Deep Space 9. The space battles were too 2-dimensional.
And two, you don't have to show in detail how the battle goes.Another problem with the space battles in Deeps Space 9. They were too simplified because they needed to be understandable on screen. Here we see ships destroyed and no idea how it is going until the Shadows retreat and even then it takes you a few seconds to understand it. And yet, there is no big cry of victory, as we see the wrecks of ships that didn't survive, which makes you feel their losses more when they say how they did in the battle.
But the mind boggling thing?
We have the first real victory against the shadows. Not just that the Shadows had to retreat, but they didn't achieve their goal either. On the contrary, the message that they can be beaten is out.
We also have Franklin resole his problems and nearly dying.
But all that pales against the reveal of Anna Sheridan at the end. The real shocker. Sheridan's literal equal and opposite, his wife. And with that the episode ends and all you can do is sit there in shock, no idea what it means or what is going to happen next.
@threedoubleyoudotcom751 It depends on how you look at it. The Shadows know exactly how strong everyone's ships are except for the White Stars.
But if they focus on the known heavy guns like the Minbari, they risk the younger races ganging up on them, so they can't completely ignore the younger races. On top of that, a Shadow ship held by a telepath is an easy target for anyone.
We are unclear how the Shadows actually command their fleet and who is responsible for their strategy.
In this particular engagement they might not even had a big strategy as they were just going in and destroy a lot of mostly helpless refugee ships. They only turned up in such numbers to make sure they completely wipe the refugee ships out to max out the fear factor.
Nothing scarier than a sudden silence only to find an fleet of destroyed ships with no survivors afterwards.
In terms of weapon strength, the younger races are pretty close. There is an implied reason for this.@threedoubleyoudotcom751
4:34: Brent, you should stop looking at the special guest stars at least for the first time you watch the episode. You spoil yourself.
I never mean to
Who's that in the thumbnail? Have we even heard of her
It is Lizzie's friend.
It's Sara's sister@@ianstopher9111
Its the little girl in pigtails from " Little House on the Prairie" all grown up.
@@cedric13Half-Pint
It's Batgirl!
Nice spoiler in the thumbnail.
Anything for ratings :)
Clickbait. 😆
@@Nikioko that would be Brent’s dog holding paws aloft looking at Anna
It's not "zee" ... it is ZED!
Is it also bed, ced, ded, ed, fed, ged, ped, Ted, and ved?
looks like b5 spoiled it for you who would be appearing in this episode
I’d say it was just as much of a surprise at the beginning as it was at the end. Just filled the episode a questioning anticipation
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