Too bad he is WRONG though, because "Sinclair IS Valen" instead of "Sinclair has the soul of Valen". Sinclair is the whole package, not just "the shiny glowing bit".
*This* is why B5 fans are the way we are about this show. Jeff's awesome reaction is pretty much how we all reacted back in the 90's. Not because we called it, but just over the sheer nerdgasm joy over great storytelling.
Exactly. I remember watching this back then and it was mind blowing. Not just as an episode, but because this was some of the best television ever made.
Star Trek has lots of time travel stories, but even though they are told nicely they NEVER EVER WORK because they are "repeatable" (the means of transportation are "common" and the method is "simple", cf. "The Voyage Home"). For this reason they NEVER EVER WORK and most importantly the "initial time voyage" that sets up the repeating cycle is a problem. There is ONE EXCEPTION (IMO) and it is this "War without end" storyline, because the initial voyage CAN WORK due to the goal of the Shadows.
The fact that JMS managed to rework this story in a way that made absolute sense after Michael O'Hare's mental illness forced him to leave, while incorporating Michael one last time, is a testament to how good a writer he is.
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTimeIt should be noted that when JMS wrote Babylon Squared, he didn't know whether B4 would be taken into the future or into the past. In other words, the Valen storyline hadn't been written yet. In other words: You predicted Sinclair would be Valen before JMS did :) Also, you are in fact very good with your predictions. It's really amazing. And I sometimes think you should give yourself more credit. :)
I remember reading in the Lurkers Guide (so long ago.....) that Peter Jurasik (Londo) said to JMS after reading the script "whatever you're smoking I want a pound of it"
"maybe the greatest episode of television of all time". Yes, it really is. This is why we are still here, 30 years later. And at long last - welcome to Babylon 5. ❤
@@nathancline4000 There are still many great episodes in B5 and other shows, of course. I think this is the best one in B5 and maybe in any show I watched.
Part Two of this two-parter has the distinction of taking place during the most different years of any episode of Babylon 5 (so far). It takes place in 2254, when Babylon 4 disappeared; 2258, when it reappeared and we had the episode "Babylon Squared"; 2260, the present day; 2278, Sheridan's flash-forward; and 1260, when Valen presented the Babylon 4 to the Minbari. And we'll leave the timing of Delenn's vision as a mystery. (The previous record was three in "Babylon Squared"; Garibaldi's vision of the past was 2256, Sinclair's vision of the future was the alternate timeline of 2260.) Third place is two in Chrysalis, which had the New Year's celebration, and thus took place in 2258 and 2259. Also: Glad you noticed the first kiss. Fans kept asking JMS (J. Michael Straczynski, the creator of Babylon 5) when Sheridan and Delenn were finally going to have their first kiss, and JMS told them that he had something special in mind. This was that "something special." Finally, you and Brent have made some comments that indicate that you are unaware that JMS was actually actively interacting with the fans online on message boards, correcting misconceptions, dropping hints, and filling in blank spots. The "Lurker's Guide" online contains a section on each episode entitled "JMS speaks" that contains a number of his quotes about the episode. (Note, you should not use that site to look up JMS speaks [until Babylon 5 for the Second Time, when I recommend you use it as a resource] because sometimes he speaks about future episodes, and though the guide makes a token effort to avoid spoilers, it is not spoiler-tagged.)
I dont think your right. Its unlikely they will see this comment, but to avoid spoilers I won't elaborate, but I think Deconstruction of Falling Stars has more. I could be wrong, but it definitely has more than 2 so it's second place if not first. Though it is an odd episode. And that's not a spoiler as any episode with that as a title and multiple times is going to be odd.
Thank you so much for posting this on TH-cam because this was not only a prediction payoff two seasons in the making for you, but also for us who have gone on this journey with you.
And now you see some of what all of us fans are on about when we keep talking about the payoffs. This show spent two and a half years laying out set ups and trails of breadcrumbs so that when moments like this hit they'd hit just like this. And they aren't done yet.
Michael O'hare had such a magnificent theatricality about him, in a more just alternate world he would've finished his run as captain of B5 and became the legend that we now remember of Sheridan.
Oh my god, Jeff. I remember my original reaction to your prediction was "F**k he got it much too soon!" Love the flashback idea and your whole reaction.
Wow...just WOW!!! This reaction was worth the wait! This was what many of us felt on the first airing. Also the final appearance of O'Hare/Sinclair in this way was just such a dignified way to finish the character arc and send O'Hare off. A brilliant, and beautifully done, pair of episodes.
JMS actually cut his TV writing teeth on She-Ra and He-Man (among other classic 80's cartoons, and a lot of other projects), so the Minbar/Brightmoon connection is probably less of a stretch than you might think!
There was always something that felt a bit deeper about The Real Ghostbusters. As a child I could tell that it had something that other cartoons didn’t. Now I ascribe that to JMS’ influence.
@@cb361If you ever read JMS's comments in the B5 Usenet archives about his time on TRGB, you'll learn a lot about the awfulness of studio producers. "Jeanine shouldn't have pointed glasses because it will scare children", "Winston should just drive and repair the Ecto-1".
For She-Ra in particular, he wasn't just a writer, but actually helped create the show bible, designing the world of the show and how all the characters fit within it, just as he would later do again for Babylon 5.
Brent may be really good at predicting individual episode plots, but Jeff, you picked out the Sinclair is Valen plot point very early on, and as you have since found out a few episodes from now there's another huge plot point you got real close on as well. Your ability to pick out those over-arcing plot points like that, at such an early point as you do, is jaw-dropping.
Yes Jeff you are the king. I have known this since you and Brent’s discussion on Interludes and Examinations which I was seriously thinking OMG JEFF GUESSED ALMOST 95% correct on the fate of Sinclair. Hail to the king Jeff.
Generally speaking I hate time travel. It never makes sense, is always easily picked apart and is very often just a complete cop out. I ADORE WAR WITHOUT END. Plus massive kudos on your precognitive abilities👍🏻 It’s so nice to see two old school, probably jaded, maybe disillusioned Sci-Fi geeks get so invested into this absolute legend of a show. Keep up the good work and best wishes to both of you 👍🏻
Finished watching this reaction. Now about to order the Blu-Ray box set. Then going to watch "The Road Home" which got delivered this morning. Today is a GOOD day.
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime I just watched The Road Home last night. It's really good, I enjoyed it a lot, but you and Brent need to leave it until you finish all of S5 to avoid any spoilers. Any time after the main series run is good though :)
You have to love the spacesuits that Delenn, Sheridan and Sinclair are wearing. According to JMS they were created for the movie 2010 with actors Roy Schneider, Bob Balaban, Helen Mirren, and John Lithgow, but never used. Also, notice that did Leonor spaceship what’s the inspiration for the Agamemnon.
With Babylon 5, JMS proves time and time again that he is The Master of Premeditation, Setup and Payoff. Anyone can throw around mystery boxes and hope for divine intervention to make at least some puzzle pieces kind of match. But not JMS. While there are some pieces that don't quite fit, they are few and far between. You will particularly notice that on your second watch. And as you have already seen a couple of times, payoffs are often immensely satisfying. All in all, there is a reason why we were so eager when you decided to watch this series. Because we knew this. We knew the chills, the goosebumps, the fist pumps... perhaps not the victory dance, but we understand. And we very muched hoped you'd appreciate it. Apparently you do. As the original self-buzzing guy, I wish you an eventful rest of the journey! And don't watch any TV movies before the series has ended!
Yeah, I can remember years later learning about O'Hares problems and decisions to leave the show, and I was like, wow, you mean this isn't the exact path we were supposed to be taking all along to get here?
While listening to the prediction on the Podcast I was actually screaming that you nailed this one, Jeff. Seeing the puzzle come together and your reaction to it was amzing.
LOVED your reaction at the end. Ever since you first predicted that Sinclair had Valen's soul I have been waiting for this episode. Your reaction did not disappoint.
S=V is kind of the R+L=J of B5; the clues are there if you're paying attention, and if you're not, yoi realise afterwards that they were and it wasnt just pulled from nowhere.
Now that you've seen this episode, I recommend the novel "To Dream in The City Of Sorrows." It is a FULLY CANON novel, that covers what Sinclair was doing on Minbar, during Season 2.
Although as a kid in the 90s I had no idea that Sinclair was actually Valen, I also jumped around excitedly at the revelation. And the episode as a whole, to be honest. I also still do just like you did after watching it again now as an adult. It's great to see someone as intelligent & mature as yourself react just like the majority of B5 fans regardless of our ages. Thank you for allowing us to see this bonus episode on your TH-cam channel.
So in a very appropriate "War Without End" - style time jump, I found you guys recently and I'm still working through your early reactions. And in those ones I am watching going "Oh, they just don't get it!" in terms of your reactions, and the early "I wonder if this'll come back, probably not, I doubt they put that much thought into it" (i.e. your REALLY early reactions) This. This is the reaction I knew was going to come. Your prediction was awesome, I'm glad you got this moment, and I'm now going to travel back in time and watch you get to this moment with an extra little grin!
What's really going to tickle your brain later, is that the triangle device that Delene used is the same one Sinclair used, but it was brought on to the station by Zathras from Epsilon 3.
Has a character ever been written off a show better? Sinclair is that guy the Mimbari have been talking about the whole series... The one thing I wish would be added somewhere is a Garibaldi getting told what happened to Sinclair.
Now consider the Triluminery device the Minbari used to scan Sinclair. All it would need to be is a DNA scanner locked to his genome. So it would show Valen and Sinclair as the strongest readings. Makes more sense now.
Been waiting for this. Glad you somehow made it spoiler free! I hope the community continues to do that, it makes watching your videos so much fun (though you guessing this so long ago made it very hard to stay silent)! Congratulations! Now I’m curious, I’ve never played Mass Effect. Is there something similar in that franchise? Every time you make an amazing guess, I wonder that.
The king is dead, Long Live King Jeff! You can tell that Michael O'Hare is in a much better place mentally in these episodes. The quote of being like an arrow in a bow perfectly explains his arc. Season one Sinclair is searching for a meaning to his life, he's lost. On Mimbar he find peace and a purpose and fulfills it by the end of this story.
LOL I am so glad that nobody told you that you got this prediction right. This would have been so much less impactful if someone had said that. It was a bit tempting at times. ;-)
Remember, for those of us who watched this series, we saw it once per week and only seasonally. When this episode came on and Sinclair was revealed to be Valen, I lost my shit!
So many pay offs. I fully agree with Jeff. Best episodes ever in TV. Valen, great machine, first kiss, Vir becomes emperor, Londo vision, so many great lines.
When I bought all the B5 Videos I would single out Babylon squared and War without end and just play them. The continuity is seamless between B² & WWE pt2. The fact you get to see both sides of the story was so awesome! Like you I had figured out that sinclair was Valan early on. What is fascinating though is that seeds have now been planted for the future events! The story writing throughout the arc was tremendous!
Thank you, thank tou, thank you I watched these episodes when they were originally broadcast, and ai also almost lost it at this reveal. And you just gotta love the skilled writing that created both Valen and Zathros.
I dunno if it's the absolute best episode of TV I've ever seen, but it's certainly on My shortlist. What it definitely is, though, is the most shocking and satisfying payoff in tv history. Remember: when the show was in first run, we had no idea why Sinclair exited the show, no idea that was the plan from the beginning (it was just altered slightly due to O'Hare's problems) and no idea it was even coming. The clues were all there, but putting them all together was next to impossible in those days. And then WWE comes along and smacks us all in the head. And you realize this was done almost perfectly, and right under your nose... Jawdropping, epic, and complete.
Coming back after re-watching the last 3 minutes of Jeff's reaction I don't know how many times. Most of the afternoon. I think this is why Brent's concern about not moving the football down the field in some episodes is misplaced. Yeah he has a point. BUT ALSO... I strongly believe the reason this reveal has as much impact as it does is because it took almost two full seasons to get to it. Seasons that had little teasers and bits of lore and hints sprinkled in all over the place, so when it all comes together here you're left agape and amazed at how it was all done. Epic. As was Jeff's reaction here. Kudos.
the collective gasp I bet we all made to ourselves when you made that prediction so early lol so glad you still had doubts enough to enjoy this moment. Funny though how everyone's reaction to the "destroyed Centauri Prime" gets taken out by the lacking CG... I think the point is if it's burning destruction and no lights out next to the royal palace, you can imagine it's worse elsewhere but also yeah, the build up makes you think it'd be complete destruction but it just looks like some burning buildings 😅
Yes, well kinda. It wasn’t so in the original airing but by the time the DVDs were being put out they dubbed that line in because it wasn’t planned like that until after Michale O’Hare could come back. The first VHS of the gathering did not have the line.
Yes, Kosh says Entil’Zha Valen right before the fake Sinclair poisons him. Even without the bones, Kosh recognized him immediately. This is why Kosh suddenly took interest in the humans and began studying them. Of course, as has been mentioned, the line was only in the re-release known as the Gathering from 1998 and not how the pilot aired in 1993. @@Babylon5FortheFirstTime
"How do you choke each other out?" My guess is by crushing the windpipe. Also this is such a great episode and damn the dark future of Londo is my absolute favorite part of it. Londo and G'Kar just get the best scenes and lines in this series and the series still is the best piece of television I´ve seen in my life. And now the torturing question, will it become true? From the seer who shared her vision with Sinclair we know, that there is no certain future. We can hope.
If this is how Jeff reacts as an adult, I pity his parents on Christmas morning as a kid! Do you think they tried to put valium in the breakfast cereal?... ;-) I wonder if Brent should try to rules lawyer on Monday - "Sorry Jeff, you can't have it, you said that Valen's soul awakened in Sinclair and what actually happened was..."
@@aexious 🤣 Well... Kinda? Not the Vorlons- tho they probably made it easy if it's true... It's not a spoiler, because it's just a fan theory that's been floating around for a long time- nothing JMS outright said or anything. But it does make sense: G'kar talking about swedish meatballs is early in Walkabout, which originally aired after this ep. So if you put 2 and 2 together with the big reveal of this one... A very interesting implication arises.
I just watched a grown man convert back to a kid through pure joy... awesome.
"I am called Valen" Jeff jumping up and dancing around with his prediction crown. Worth the wait.
I think it's the most beautifully hilarious reaction I've ever seen.
Jeff.exe has crashed.
The trailer of animated feature had same effect on me, hinting......
G'Quan????😅
Too bad he is WRONG though, because "Sinclair IS Valen" instead of "Sinclair has the soul of Valen". Sinclair is the whole package, not just "the shiny glowing bit".
'See Garibaldi's hair?...' Rule of thumb: You can always tell which season you're watching by the status of Mr. Garibaldi's hair.
Seems like in the alternative future Garibaldi had a transhair operation.
*This* is why B5 fans are the way we are about this show. Jeff's awesome reaction is pretty much how we all reacted back in the 90's. Not because we called it, but just over the sheer nerdgasm joy over great storytelling.
Exactly. I remember watching this back then and it was mind blowing. Not just as an episode, but because this was some of the best television ever made.
Did Jeff ever get this excited about Star Trek .
YES!!!
Star Trek has lots of time travel stories, but even though they are told nicely they NEVER EVER WORK because they are "repeatable" (the means of transportation are "common" and the method is "simple", cf. "The Voyage Home"). For this reason they NEVER EVER WORK and most importantly the "initial time voyage" that sets up the repeating cycle is a problem.
There is ONE EXCEPTION (IMO) and it is this "War without end" storyline, because the initial voyage CAN WORK due to the goal of the Shadows.
Watching Jeff squee with delight at the reveal that Sinclair is Valen was such a treasure.
It was like my daughter years and years ago, when she saw her first Disney movie.
The fact that JMS managed to rework this story in a way that made absolute sense after Michael O'Hare's mental illness forced him to leave, while incorporating Michael one last time, is a testament to how good a writer he is.
Agreed. Would have been so easy to let some of this pass in dialogue, but having O'Hare come back made this unbelievably epic.
It works so well, you wonder how it could have possibly ever been any other way.
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTimeIt should be noted that when JMS wrote Babylon Squared, he didn't know whether B4 would be taken into the future or into the past. In other words, the Valen storyline hadn't been written yet. In other words: You predicted Sinclair would be Valen before JMS did :)
Also, you are in fact very good with your predictions. It's really amazing. And I sometimes think you should give yourself more credit. :)
Brent is the King that was. Jeff is the King that is.
A rare Jeff watch for us non-patreon plebs. Thank you, generous content gods.
He wanted to flex his earned (well-earned) crown!
@@t3amtomahawk and he gets to do it again not too long from now!
@@craiglortie8483 Shhhh.......Spoilers.
@@craiglortie8483 REMOVE THIS COMMENT
@@6totoro6 What? I believe the other poster meant on the combined recap show on Monday.
... and this is why one should never spoil things to the reactors 👍😀
a thousand times this!
Those of us who have been DMs since the age of 12: Yes. We know.
This week we are starting a new adventure: it is called Tomb of Horrors.
@@ianstopher9111 Don't forget to swing by the Little Shop while there
awout the closes I get to a spoiler is calling bab squared a 3 parter :P
This reaction is a complete joy to behold.
Jeff's reaction at the end was so satisfying to watch! Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it
I remember reading in the Lurkers Guide (so long ago.....) that Peter Jurasik (Londo) said to JMS after reading the script "whatever you're smoking I want a pound of it"
Easy to hear that in Londo's Voice.
"maybe the greatest episode of television of all time".
Yes, it really is. This is why we are still here, 30 years later.
And at long last - welcome to Babylon 5. ❤
Its up there. But at least to this point. Of course, B5 itself still has some more doozeys to offer, culminating in Sleeping in Light.
@@nathancline4000 There are still many great episodes in B5 and other shows, of course.
I think this is the best one in B5 and maybe in any show I watched.
Part Two of this two-parter has the distinction of taking place during the most different years of any episode of Babylon 5 (so far). It takes place in 2254, when Babylon 4 disappeared; 2258, when it reappeared and we had the episode "Babylon Squared"; 2260, the present day; 2278, Sheridan's flash-forward; and 1260, when Valen presented the Babylon 4 to the Minbari. And we'll leave the timing of Delenn's vision as a mystery. (The previous record was three in "Babylon Squared"; Garibaldi's vision of the past was 2256, Sinclair's vision of the future was the alternate timeline of 2260.) Third place is two in Chrysalis, which had the New Year's celebration, and thus took place in 2258 and 2259.
Also: Glad you noticed the first kiss. Fans kept asking JMS (J. Michael Straczynski, the creator of Babylon 5) when Sheridan and Delenn were finally going to have their first kiss, and JMS told them that he had something special in mind. This was that "something special."
Finally, you and Brent have made some comments that indicate that you are unaware that JMS was actually actively interacting with the fans online on message boards, correcting misconceptions, dropping hints, and filling in blank spots. The "Lurker's Guide" online contains a section on each episode entitled "JMS speaks" that contains a number of his quotes about the episode. (Note, you should not use that site to look up JMS speaks [until Babylon 5 for the Second Time, when I recommend you use it as a resource] because sometimes he speaks about future episodes, and though the guide makes a token effort to avoid spoilers, it is not spoiler-tagged.)
I dont think your right. Its unlikely they will see this comment, but to avoid spoilers I won't elaborate, but I think Deconstruction of Falling Stars has more. I could be wrong, but it definitely has more than 2 so it's second place if not first. Though it is an odd episode. And that's not a spoiler as any episode with that as a title and multiple times is going to be odd.
a no spoilers comment... "Season isn't over yet. Keep your arms and hands inside to coaster at all times."
Couldn't have said it better myself :)
Just wait. You ain't seen nothin yet.
Thank you so much for posting this on TH-cam because this was not only a prediction payoff two seasons in the making for you, but also for us who have gone on this journey with you.
I've been waiting for you to get to these episodes ever since you called Sinclair being Valen. You need the crown of crowns.
And now you see some of what all of us fans are on about when we keep talking about the payoffs. This show spent two and a half years laying out set ups and trails of breadcrumbs so that when moments like this hit they'd hit just like this. And they aren't done yet.
This reveal is all the richer after hearing the actor's story, and his real-life struggles.
That closeup shot near the end of his eyes looking out... Such a tragic and soulful, yet purposeful look
Agreed
Michael O'hare had such a magnificent theatricality about him, in a more just alternate world he would've finished his run as captain of B5 and became the legend that we now remember of Sheridan.
Oh my god, Jeff. I remember my original reaction to your prediction was "F**k he got it much too soon!" Love the flashback idea and your whole reaction.
Probably his best reaction yet.
I am sooooooooo glad you posted this. I was hoping to see your reaction to these episodes. Can't wait.
Wow...just WOW!!! This reaction was worth the wait! This was what many of us felt on the first airing. Also the final appearance of O'Hare/Sinclair in this way was just such a dignified way to finish the character arc and send O'Hare off. A brilliant, and beautifully done, pair of episodes.
JMS actually cut his TV writing teeth on She-Ra and He-Man (among other classic 80's cartoons, and a lot of other projects), so the Minbar/Brightmoon connection is probably less of a stretch than you might think!
There was always something that felt a bit deeper about The Real Ghostbusters. As a child I could tell that it had something that other cartoons didn’t. Now I ascribe that to JMS’ influence.
@@cb361If you ever read JMS's comments in the B5 Usenet archives about his time on TRGB, you'll learn a lot about the awfulness of studio producers. "Jeanine shouldn't have pointed glasses because it will scare children", "Winston should just drive and repair the Ecto-1".
For She-Ra in particular, he wasn't just a writer, but actually helped create the show bible, designing the world of the show and how all the characters fit within it, just as he would later do again for Babylon 5.
Brent may be really good at predicting individual episode plots, but Jeff, you picked out the Sinclair is Valen plot point very early on, and as you have since found out a few episodes from now there's another huge plot point you got real close on as well. Your ability to pick out those over-arcing plot points like that, at such an early point as you do, is jaw-dropping.
You guys both got SO many bonus points for predictions this week.
Celebrating your Jeff is Valen prediction should be a TH-cam short.
RIP O'Hare, Furlen, Doyle, and Choate.
One of the best space operas ever made and so unfortunate in its actors passing beyond the Rim.
I just saw a grown middle-aged man revert back to his nine year old self on Christmas Morning. Priceless! Lol!!
Yes Jeff you are the king. I have known this since you and Brent’s discussion on Interludes and Examinations which I was seriously thinking OMG JEFF GUESSED ALMOST 95% correct on the fate of Sinclair.
Hail to the king Jeff.
Now you know why we were freaking out back when you made this prediction! 😁
Generally speaking I hate time travel. It never makes sense, is always easily picked apart and is very often just a complete cop out.
I ADORE WAR WITHOUT END.
Plus massive kudos on your precognitive abilities👍🏻
It’s so nice to see two old school, probably jaded, maybe disillusioned Sci-Fi geeks get so invested into this absolute legend of a show.
Keep up the good work and best wishes to both of you 👍🏻
'Maximum password attempts exceeded. Message deleted.'
Finished watching this reaction. Now about to order the Blu-Ray box set. Then going to watch "The Road Home" which got delivered this morning. Today is a GOOD day.
Have fun! We’ll catch up with the Road Home in about a year
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime I just watched The Road Home last night. It's really good, I enjoyed it a lot, but you and Brent need to leave it until you finish all of S5 to avoid any spoilers. Any time after the main series run is good though :)
You got it early. I’m going digital copy but it’s not available yet.
You have to love the spacesuits that Delenn, Sheridan and Sinclair are wearing. According to JMS they were created for the movie 2010 with actors Roy Schneider, Bob Balaban, Helen Mirren, and John Lithgow, but never used. Also, notice that did Leonor spaceship what’s the inspiration for the Agamemnon.
Also, your "rule of three" Trek references always caused me to raise an eyebrow *bzzzz* because ALL IS THREE!
I loved watching this because I remember my first watch and when that realization hits…..magic.
With Babylon 5, JMS proves time and time again that he is The Master of Premeditation, Setup and Payoff. Anyone can throw around mystery boxes and hope for divine intervention to make at least some puzzle pieces kind of match. But not JMS. While there are some pieces that don't quite fit, they are few and far between. You will particularly notice that on your second watch. And as you have already seen a couple of times, payoffs are often immensely satisfying.
All in all, there is a reason why we were so eager when you decided to watch this series. Because we knew this. We knew the chills, the goosebumps, the fist pumps... perhaps not the victory dance, but we understand. And we very muched hoped you'd appreciate it. Apparently you do.
As the original self-buzzing guy, I wish you an eventful rest of the journey! And don't watch any TV movies before the series has ended!
Yeah, I can remember years later learning about O'Hares problems and decisions to leave the show, and I was like, wow, you mean this isn't the exact path we were supposed to be taking all along to get here?
And we all had shitsxand gigles the last 3 seasons when those hints came up.
This was such an amazing payoff for a very long wait. 😂
Now, YHAT os what I call a reaction!
Well done, Jeff! The crown is well earned!
Be seeing you on Monday.
While listening to the prediction on the Podcast I was actually screaming that you nailed this one, Jeff. Seeing the puzzle come together and your reaction to it was amzing.
LOVED your reaction at the end. Ever since you first predicted that Sinclair had Valen's soul I have been waiting for this episode. Your reaction did not disappoint.
This entire podcast is worth it just for that end reaction.
These three episodes are my favorite part of Babylon 5. JMS played the long game, and tied it together beautifully
S=V is kind of the R+L=J of B5; the clues are there if you're paying attention, and if you're not, yoi realise afterwards that they were and it wasnt just pulled from nowhere.
Brilliant reaction. Everything about this episode is why I love B5 so much.
Now that you've seen this episode, I recommend the novel "To Dream in The City Of Sorrows." It is a FULLY CANON novel, that covers what Sinclair was doing on Minbar, during Season 2.
LOVED your reaction. This is one of my favorite two parter of any show.
I've been waiting on this one for a while now. Thanks for letting us share it with you.
All I will say, after seeing both, is that I'm glad he had on shorts
Although as a kid in the 90s I had no idea that Sinclair was actually Valen, I also jumped around excitedly at the revelation.
And the episode as a whole, to be honest.
I also still do just like you did after watching it again now as an adult.
It's great to see someone as intelligent & mature as yourself react just like the majority of B5 fans regardless of our ages.
Thank you for allowing us to see this bonus episode on your TH-cam channel.
So in a very appropriate "War Without End" - style time jump, I found you guys recently and I'm still working through your early reactions. And in those ones I am watching going "Oh, they just don't get it!" in terms of your reactions, and the early "I wonder if this'll come back, probably not, I doubt they put that much thought into it" (i.e. your REALLY early reactions)
This. This is the reaction I knew was going to come. Your prediction was awesome, I'm glad you got this moment, and I'm now going to travel back in time and watch you get to this moment with an extra little grin!
It’s almost as if JMS is taking us on a ride and you guys are on your own ride with us.
The Valen reaction was well worth it. When I saw this episode as a kid my reaction was pretty much shock and being speechless.
What's really going to tickle your brain later, is that the triangle device that Delene used is the same one Sinclair used, but it was brought on to the station by Zathras from Epsilon 3.
Has a character ever been written off a show better? Sinclair is that guy the Mimbari have been talking about the whole series...
The one thing I wish would be added somewhere is a Garibaldi getting told what happened to Sinclair.
There you go. That's why we love B5. Welcome aboard, lurker.
All in!!
Now consider the Triluminery device the Minbari used to scan Sinclair. All it would need to be is a DNA scanner locked to his genome. So it would show Valen and Sinclair as the strongest readings.
Makes more sense now.
The “Previously On” totally makes this!!
That was all Brent!! He's brilliant!
Been waiting for this. Glad you somehow made it spoiler free! I hope the community continues to do that, it makes watching your videos so much fun (though you guessing this so long ago made it very hard to stay silent)! Congratulations!
Now I’m curious, I’ve never played Mass Effect. Is there something similar in that franchise? Every time you make an amazing guess, I wonder that.
Let’s find out together. Brent will be starting his first time play through soon
Brent needs to hand that crown over now
I'm grateful he already had pants on for his victory dance!
Oh, tonight we will see Jeff watching. 😃
I seem to remember running round my chair too, on seeing the final reveal of Valen ....
Nice treat for all of us!
The king is dead, Long Live King Jeff!
You can tell that Michael O'Hare is in a much better place mentally in these episodes. The quote of being like an arrow in a bow perfectly explains his arc. Season one Sinclair is searching for a meaning to his life, he's lost. On Mimbar he find peace and a purpose and fulfills it by the end of this story.
LOL I am so glad that nobody told you that you got this prediction right. This would have been so much less impactful if someone had said that. It was a bit tempting at times. ;-)
That reaction was worth waiting for!
Great to see Jeff's joy at the end
Wow i could not stop smiling during your reaction video. Thank you ! You made my weekend so much better 😊
LOL! The reaction was awesome! wish I could watch it for the first time again, but alas, I had the pleasure of watching it when it originally aired.
Remember, for those of us who watched this series, we saw it once per week and only seasonally. When this episode came on and Sinclair was revealed to be Valen, I lost my shit!
This was probably my favorite double episode in all of scifi. Just adored this when all the pieces fit together. Your reaction is GOLD.
Glad you enjoyed it! I almost think of it as a trilogy! Babylon Squared into WWE 1 and 2. Together they are all perfect.
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime As we said, WWE Part 1 is part 1 but not of a two-parter
I’ll take this one and Best of Both Worlds.
Babylon Cubed?@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime
So many pay offs. I fully agree with Jeff. Best episodes ever in TV. Valen, great machine, first kiss, Vir becomes emperor, Londo vision, so many great lines.
It was at this point ( on original viewing ) that i realised this show was special!
This is how you do a good time travel story, and make Jeff dance with happiness 🤣
When I bought all the B5 Videos I would single out Babylon squared and War without end and just play them. The continuity is seamless between B² & WWE pt2. The fact you get to see both sides of the story was so awesome! Like you I had figured out that sinclair was Valan early on. What is fascinating though is that seeds have now been planted for the future events! The story writing throughout the arc was tremendous!
Thank you, thank tou, thank you I watched these episodes when they were originally broadcast, and ai also almost lost it at this reveal. And you just gotta love the skilled writing that created both Valen and Zathros.
You're very welcome!
It was great to see Jeff nail one!
Such a graceful winner! 🤣🤣
1) there’s no competition.
2) Even if it were, it’s far from over
Possibly THE best reaction video ever! 😁
This episode just hits differently since Micheal O’Hare’s passing and the truth about his mental health coming out
The king is dead, long live the king.
Been biting my tongue so hard every time you've explained 'The Rule of Three' in your show...
I dunno if it's the absolute best episode of TV I've ever seen, but it's certainly on My shortlist.
What it definitely is, though, is the most shocking and satisfying payoff in tv history.
Remember: when the show was in first run, we had no idea why Sinclair exited the show, no idea that was the plan from the beginning (it was just altered slightly due to O'Hare's problems) and no idea it was even coming.
The clues were all there, but putting them all together was next to impossible in those days.
And then WWE comes along and smacks us all in the head.
And you realize this was done almost perfectly, and right under your nose... Jawdropping, epic, and complete.
Coming back after re-watching the last 3 minutes of Jeff's reaction I don't know how many times. Most of the afternoon.
I think this is why Brent's concern about not moving the football down the field in some episodes is misplaced. Yeah he has a point. BUT ALSO... I strongly believe the reason this reveal has as much impact as it does is because it took almost two full seasons to get to it. Seasons that had little teasers and bits of lore and hints sprinkled in all over the place, so when it all comes together here you're left agape and amazed at how it was all done.
Epic. As was Jeff's reaction here.
Kudos.
Glad you enjoyed it. Jeff here. It's a balance, I think, but you're right. The slow play on this really made it hit all the harder.
the collective gasp I bet we all made to ourselves when you made that prediction so early lol so glad you still had doubts enough to enjoy this moment. Funny though how everyone's reaction to the "destroyed Centauri Prime" gets taken out by the lacking CG... I think the point is if it's burning destruction and no lights out next to the royal palace, you can imagine it's worse elsewhere but also yeah, the build up makes you think it'd be complete destruction but it just looks like some burning buildings 😅
Jeff Nailed it from Day One
Well should've nailed it on Day 1: it was staring him in the face in the remastered Gathering that Jeff watched.
Shocking how much more hair Jeff and Brent had in the Season 2 episode 1 reaction video!
So many Easter eggs to discuss on this one, but arrrgh gota wait til B5 for the second time. Can't wait. All hail club 65
Watching you see that completely made my day. Well played, sir.
What a welcome surprise and wonderful reaction!
I was laughing out loud at your ending reaction! Great stuff, truly love it. Good times. :)
Glad you enjoyed it!
Jeff is Vir coming in to scoop up the crown off Brent lol
Awesome, thank you, made my evening.
Glad to hear it!
If you listen closely in the Gathering Kosh calls the assassin who looked like Sinclair Valen.
Seriously?? Now we have a reason to look forward to watching that again!
Yes, well kinda.
It wasn’t so in the original airing but by the time the DVDs were being put out they dubbed that line in because it wasn’t planned like that until after Michale O’Hare could come back. The first VHS of the gathering did not have the line.
This was all intended for B5FTST
Yes, Kosh says Entil’Zha Valen right before the fake Sinclair poisons him. Even without the bones, Kosh recognized him immediately. This is why Kosh suddenly took interest in the humans and began studying them.
Of course, as has been mentioned, the line was only in the re-release known as the Gathering from 1998 and not how the pilot aired in 1993. @@Babylon5FortheFirstTime
"How do you choke each other out?"
My guess is by crushing the windpipe.
Also this is such a great episode and damn the dark future of Londo is my absolute favorite part of it. Londo and G'Kar just get the best scenes and lines in this series and the series still is the best piece of television I´ve seen in my life.
And now the torturing question, will it become true?
From the seer who shared her vision with Sinclair we know, that there is no certain future. We can hope.
If this is how Jeff reacts as an adult, I pity his parents on Christmas morning as a kid! Do you think they tried to put valium in the breakfast cereal?... ;-)
I wonder if Brent should try to rules lawyer on Monday - "Sorry Jeff, you can't have it, you said that Valen's soul awakened in Sinclair and what actually happened was..."
I'm only watching this to find out if he's figured out the Swedish meatballs mystery... 😂
An intergalactic Johnny Appleseed, but with spoo?
I mean maybe the Vorlons spoo'ed every planet they visited
@@aexious 🤣
Well... Kinda?
Not the Vorlons- tho they probably made it easy if it's true...
It's not a spoiler, because it's just a fan theory that's been floating around for a long time- nothing JMS outright said or anything.
But it does make sense: G'kar talking about swedish meatballs is early in Walkabout, which originally aired after this ep. So if you put 2 and 2 together with the big reveal of this one... A very interesting implication arises.
@@SuperZero42we are all Swedish Meatballs.
@@aexious 🤣
they have always been here
Omg such a happy reaction! Man you got really Lively! 😀
I literally gave you the crown way back when you predicted who Valen was👑
Impressive sir!!! Bragging rights!!