if anything, this documentary really just showed how hybe didn't choose the correct trainers for the girls. why are they pointing out her lack of confidence and not the technicalities? and how the heck would sakura understand what the producer meant with "singing in a brighter tone"? this truly makes me so frustrated (as someone who received singing lessons when i was younger, that is NOT how a proper trainer begins a session). sigh.
Yes, like is the technique that would give her confidence, cause she would know that she is capable. There is no way that she will be confident knowing that her skills are not that stable. She needs a new coach that can help her from the base.
I agree with your point, but with the producer tho, it's not their fault. They are producer, they dont give a shi* whether some person can sing or not, that person just need to sing their part and deliver what's in the producer's head to potray how the song will be. The one who will interpret these directions are the singer itself. Now, if the singer lacks the knowledge itself, that would entail a much bigger problem like what it has seen in Sakura. The faults are in how Hybe did not pursue better coaches for the girls, who are not to be motivator but to be a teacher.
That vocal trainer is the worst one I have seen. She did not mention once anything about vocals. All the vocal trainer yapped about was confidence. If Sakura learned to sing, she would get more confidence. However she can’t sing so she can’t suddenly get confident.
@@aintnootherfan I'm really sad for Sakura since I rooted for her since Produce 48 I always believed that she'll improve but then she's stuck with this kind of teacher and it feels kinda hopeless
Agree, this behavior might be the reason why Sakura isn’t improving and why the public’s response hurts her, her coach says she’s doing fine when she isn’t, she believes it and gets a different reaction from the public, giving her more doubts and anxiety
Hybe vocal teachers are pretty bad. Most of the good Hybe singers use other vocal coaches like DK and Seungkwan from Seventeen does. Jungkook also paid for his own vocal coach. Those trained by Hybe like Jimin and Le Sserafim have lots of faults in their technique.
@@aintnootherfan that "teacher" pissed me off so bad with this stupid comment! She must not be worried about her own reputation at all either... who's calling her for vocal lessons when she's putting saku out there like that??
Personally i think this is mostly the company's fault even in the documentary they are almost always practicing dancing and when she sees the vocal coach the coach tells her "it's been a while" ???? Like what do you mean it's been a while she has been getting so much hate for her vocals why is the company not helping them with their vocals and still make them practice dancing until they almost pass out . İ really feel for the girls
The dance practice focus source and hybe have is so bad. All of hybe groups can dance REALLY WELL. Yet they keep only focusing on that which cause all of their groups to have a scandal over vocals or rap every other buisness day
@@AUGHHHHHBBG yeah hype have a really high and toxic dancing standart for their group it's absolutely ridiculous plus the girls are already such amazing dancers but they apparently want them to become professional dancers not idols. İ really feel sad for the girls they are being drained by these dance practice
@@blue-fv3eh Exactly. It’s bad too cus the face of hybe being BTS makes many people think “Since these people are talented then hybe would help me too”
@@AUGHHHHHBBGbts are known for their rap, songwriting, self produced songs and dance, only jungkook is known for his vocals (jin too but his visuals overshadow his vocals), taehyung is known for his deep voice and visuals too not really his singing. BTS was never a vocal focused group so it makes sense for hybe to not care much abt vocals as much as dance and rap
In the documentary, Kazuha mentioned that she hoped to improve by continuing, but it only gets harder. I think she means that just as she starts to get comfortable, the concept changes, forcing her to learn something new instead of building on what she's already working on. This goes for the whole group-they need more consistent concepts to really develop their skills. They also need their own vocal coaches, as the company’s aren’t helping, and the two members with decent voices are actually getting worse. Lastly, they really need a break; I can’t recall them having any time off since their debut, except when they were sick.
They are expected to do what other idols have done including groups like IVE with Leeseos and wonyoungs singing and even dancing, same with aespa for stage presence and dance which was tbf due to their choreos. If it was just during performmaces fine because their performances are not suitable for dancing, but its also just the encores@fearnot_jeans
@@anisaafsar4528well that happened after both of those groups went through the hate trains lesserafim is going through right now so let’s see what happens next, if nothing else another girl group will get the same hate train next year
I really wish they pulled an ive and just took a long ass break from any minor promotions or activities for year/year and half to just steady their skills and calm down after their hate train. It’s what they need to improve at this point but hybe seems to money hungry and desperate (esp with the war with mhj) to give them the training they were already rushed out of getting once
@@anisaafsar4528not to mention it also took those groups YEARS to improve slowly, but le serra is expected to improve in months, even with an objectively worse starting point skill wise compared to ive or aespa
That vocal training clip was peculiar. First, the coach might have had Sakura stand and adjust her posture. Singing in a sitting position slightly hunched over inhibits your diapgram and breath control. Also, there was no keyboard to run scales and warm up her voice (fla fla ne-ee-ee-ee-ee). If that is the extent of the vocal coaching, I can see why there's limited improvement. There's techniques she can be taught to help with not only breath control, but pitch, stamina, projection, moving from chest to head voice, etc.
I wish I could! I feel so bad for her. I'm not the greatest singer, but I had some decent coaching. Confidence starts with knowing you're prepared and practiced in different scenarios. Just knitpicking parts of a song with a performer and hoping for the best won't cut it.
@@feelalittlepressurebut like everyone keep mentioning too is hybe and source music have an issue with not letting singers sing in their vocal range. Recent example of this is with illit. When we disco suited a lot of the girls well vocally. Especially Moka who got criticism for not being able to sing which clearly wasn’t the issue for her. Hybe do what a lot of jpop companies do. They have the high voice situation when they make vocals more high for people who vocals are lower (if u get what I’m saying)
@AUGHHHHHBBG Absolutely. Hybe/Source often shoehorn these higher register vocals into certain concepts with very little wiggle room for the natural ranges of their performers. That can cause long-term injuries. But they don't seem to priorize these real concerns. Quite frustrating.
I feel like they need to address more of her vocal health than her vocal abilities, she looks in pain when she sings, and yes that is probably partly due to her fear of singing, but she genuinely looks like singing is painful for her, even in the clip of her crying the first thing she does after she sings is touches her throat almost to soothe it. We know that generally K-pop idols don’t have the best technique and that can lead to vocal damage, but Sakura has been singing out of her range and with poor technique for ten plus years, she’s got to have vocal damage and that needs to be addressed. She needs a hiatus for multiple reasons but that should be a big reason for it, to 1. figure out what’s wrong and 2. To hopefully mitigate the damage caused by it. I feel like she’s needs to start from square one to not just build back up her confidence but to also relearn how to sing without damaging her health (mentally and physically)
THISSSS. The issue is the team around her don’t realize this and simply don’t care if they do know. They want her to force her vocals to change and that’s not how stuff works
Bro that's what I've been saying for sooo long. People say she should be getting better cuz of her many years in the industry, but the truth is she has been without any semblance of technique for a decade and now her voice is basically broken. She needs to build it back from the ground up. And unfortunately Hybe is the worst company for that
i think atp she should just go and look for a proper vocal coach outside her company herself because hybe has a history of hiring either really bad vocal coaches or none at all .. so it's really no wonder hybe idols get flamed for their weak vocals all the damn time
she should, but i don't think she knows. i feel like she just keeps blaming herself because she's doing so much worse compared to everyone else in the team and in the company. in a way, she's being gaslit to believe that she's the problem.
She probably too lazy to do that. After all she has been an idol for over 10 years and still no improvement. The best option is that Sakura gets a new job.
Oh? Well how about all the kpop stans who dog-piled on LSF just because they could, under the guise of 'constructive criticism'? So many of them blame the company, but no one wants to acknowledge the actual haters who don't care about Sakura improving. For them, it's all funsies just to bring her down and destroy her.
@@Emgee78 Would you rather Sakura continue to damage her voice by using incorrect vocal technique and constantly straining? I do not support the hate train against the girls but if you’re going to blame the public more than Hybe for what’s going on, you clearly don’t have Sakura’s best interest at heart either.
@@pixcainelet’s not lie yes there are people who genuinely want sakura’s voice to get better but there’s also a ton of people just using this as an excuse to hate on her
This reminded me of Seungmin from Stray Kids; he always dedicated himself a lot to singing, but he didn’t improve that much for a few years. He wasn’t terrible like Sakura, but he was aware that he could and should get better. I think he realized that the training at JYPE wasn’t enough, so he sought out a vocal coach on his own. From that point on, his improvement was quick and noticeable, and fans were always commenting on it. Shortly after, Lee Know also sought the same coach, and we’re seeing his progress day by day. I think Sakura should do the same; you can't rely on Hybe’s coach-it's clear she’s not helping with the improvement. She needs to seek help elsewhere, or she’ll stay stagnant, receiving all the hate due to the incompetent company that can’t even choose a good vocal coach.
Oh, he now has the same vocal coach as Baekhyun, right? (Or perhaps I mistook him for another idol?) And wow, maybe that's why Lee Know has improved so much lately and why he has gotten so much comfortable with singing. Props to him for taking up lessons. It clearly bore fruit.
@@thewaitisogreYg and jyp have bad thecniques, jyp is airy and yg is nasal, and you can clearly see is re inforce by the company, like a signature ... However i notice yhat the nmixx girls had great vocal thecnique , then someone said that one of the members was coaching them ans you can tell 😅 Is like how soyeon gave vocal techniques To the girls ans help shuhua sing better, shd was mediocre as Sakura and now she sings a little 😂, at least she hold notes and doesnt strain
To put into a more relatable context: This is when you know you aren’t good at math, the teacher offers 0 good support, even when you ask for help, and say that the reason why you can’t do the tests well is because you need confidence. Its incredibly frustrating, and now compound that with having your parents and family constantly berate you for not being able to do maths properly and you can see how this can spiral Edit: Reading your replies, I totally agree she should defo at this point get external help cause srsly HYBE ain’t doing much. Just an additional perspective on why she may not have gotten it earlier: - Pre IZ*One, she seemed to have no issue as a Jpop Idol. During IZ*One she seemed pretty content and there was no intense backlash against her vocals - During Lesserafim initial promotions, they seemed to be praised constantly for talent, hence she may have felt that she was competant enough. It was mainly the Easy era that everything went crashing down. - She may have not gotten help because the staff at Hybe was telling her that the only issue she has was lack of confidence, not lack of skill. Crappy advice = Crappy Actions. - The reason why she chose to be an Idol, even though she seemingly has bad vocals is that she may not have even known it to be as big of a problem till AFTER becoming an idol. As a Jpop idol, she was thriving if I rememeber correctly so she was completely fine and happy. This is like you doing a job that required minimal maths and you doing good at that level, then being upgraded to a role that required a lot more math. Again, in the end, I 100% agree she should defo get help from a competent source (*cough* not Hybe)
It will spiral if YOU let it spiral. I remember a classmate of mine who is not really good at math, they are not really getting support to some of the teachers so what did they do? They asked some of my other classmates to teach them. You are not getting help from people you expect help from? Ask someone else. You won't really have confidence if you are not getting the help that you need. At the end of the day, it is on YOU if you just don't improve. And mind you, this is not like math that is being forced for you to learn, she chose this path and I am pretty sure she knows everything that comes with it, fame, fortune and especially the pressure to perform well. It's not like this is her rookie year on her first group. If it is too much for her (which I doubt she doesn't expect), she can quit. It is easy (pun not intended) to say (or show in a documentary) that you are trying to improve but improvement will only show if you are actually working on it.
The difference between the Le Sserafim members and students is that the students usually don't have the resources to secure the proper tutors/coaches to help them learn and improve. Sakura has money and plenty of information about and proximity to proper, competent instructors available to her. So many idols who are really dedicated to vocal improvement hire proper coaches on their own rather look for their employer to do it. Considering how long Sakura has been in this game, and how long this problem has dogged her career, I am lost as to why she has not yet done this for herself.
at this point if hybe doesn’t want to invest in a proper vocal coach, then she might have to take it into her own hands. bare minimum there are teachers on youtube where you can get AT LEAST the basics on warmups, how to not strain, hell how to even find your range. yes, a physical teacher would be better, but when you’re starting w nothing, maybe some videos can help her pick up some building blocks.
I hope she knows some vocal trainers as understanding and articulate as Soyeon from (G)I-DLE, Shuhua was pretty tone-deaf and could not pronounce Korean correctly, look at her singing now is a much bigger improvement.
i seriously dont get this kpop industry logic of "saving your voice" before a performance. voice is just like a muscle, it gets stronger with consistent training. you see lots of idols working out before performances or photoshoots in order for their muscles to really pop during it, same should go to voice warmings. they're Singers, for fuck's sake
@@K82849Its a thing, but just like with physical exercises, rest comes _after_ the singing. Makes no sense to rest something that's already rested and has not been used yet.
unfortunately i think the state of vocal training in east asia as a whole is like this. the so called coaches just focus on superficial things like touching up stylistic choices instead of addressing the root problem that a student simply cannot and should not sing a certain song at this point.
@@sadhourstwentyfourseven9578 exactly my point like, sure, you need rest days when you're working out, but in order to have rest days you need to Train first. if they go to pre-recordings early in the morning, that more than anything is the time for warming up since they weren't using up their voices for Hours.
I saw the part with the vocal coach and literally stood in front of my screen like this "😦" I've been taking vocal lessons for 10 years, and at some point I went through a traumatic experience and had to quit singing for a year (didn't even sing at home for fun) after I had reached an incredibly significant milestone with my technique and confidence. When I got back into it I took a great hit to my confidence, I felt incometent for not being able to do the things I had worked so hard to do. I would sing something and even if it didnt sound bad it felt off, and I broke down during one lesson. What did my vocal coach do? She sat me down, let me calm down, and told me "We're gonna go back to basics". And we spent our next few sessions doing nothing but excersises to rebuild my skills and boost my confidence, and when we got to singing again I felt so much better knowing that if something felt off I would know how to fix it. That's what Sakura needs, not "Why did you lose your confidence?" but "Let's build some confidence". I really hope she can find a coach that can do that.
1. I’m so happy for you girl ❤❤ 2. Exactlyyy. The vocal coaches at source coddle feelings too much and won’t pinpoint the problem which is gonna be her downfall till they fix it
Do you know Jang JinYoung, SM vocal coach who appeares often in Idols Show? He appeared in a showed called Sister Slam Dunk where the participants are half non singer, and the singers are Minzy 2ne1, Somi, and ex-opera singer who wrecked her voices. He pointed their flaws, and help them to improve their singing. All of them, even the ex-opera singer who was so afraid and scared, he kept pushed her to do basics and build up her confidence. Somi lost a lot of confidence (this was when she was still in JYP), back to basics and help her confidence. Minzy learned a lot from him. He guide her to be able to singing high note. This man is SM vocal coache who teach wendy overcome her vocal nodule. Thats why when I watched the documentary, i was like, what the fuck did that vocal coach teach? 🫥
@@chickennerd2085 wait I remembered that too. And yes you're so right. Almost all of the sm trainers are like that because Lee Soo man got his hands on the best ones (whether dance, vocal etc ) of his country. Also he himself has some competence regarding these things so he has some set standard he wants his idols to reach or to be at. In comparison to that jyp is just.....you know it if well if you have watched slam dunk sisters and many of his group's studio album making behind the scenes videos. He's a terrible teacher and has horrible work ethics plus lack emotional intelligence horrendously. Enough jyp bashing. So what I'm saying is that he forces his idols to reach his own standards and personal aesthetics (so his idols can stand out according to him) but his own art and performance is so goofy that his own idols make fun of him. Lmao ifykyk. So he's in the way of his own idols but nmixx was made to go through a different route. So did stray kids because stray kids were just grinding on their own and jyp let them bc he wanted to try the bang sihyuk (his friend's) methods. Bang sihyuk is a great producer but actual stuff like vocals and dance is not his forte at all. All he cared about and still cares about is his idols should be synchronized. Neat and clean grand performances. Confidence. All such things appeal to younger audience easily. He's ambitious about his business so he makes his staff and idols work in that direction where there's lot of money. No ethics. Stupidities. And much more grand things with hollow insides. For example Le sserafim's big performances and crazy dance routines but mediocre techniques in dances and vocals are so prominent if one looks closely. Atleast older and mature audiences can't deny the flaws despite their strength being big enjoyable end of the year/award show performances. That's what we all look forward to the most for hybe groups because they eat every time. Still the flaws with big confidence is very much prominent and cringe in some cases. It's a bit in bearable sometimes imo. So this is just my observation of these big companies and their training styles since that's what we are talking about.
@@aintnootherfanisn't the biggest problem in kpop industry that idols and their employers do not know how to take criticism and take it to help themselves improve as an artist and business respectively. There's a pattern of their behavior that makes their actual haters more hostile.
I think that unfortunately Sakura has been put in situations where she hasn't been given the knowledge of how to protect her voice and also isn't given the opportunity to. Daisy (Momoland) was on tiktok and said that she was often told to be quiet before performing when she was doing vocal warmups, so she didn't distract anyone or was given no warning about singing live. This would damage anyone's voice. I think it must be hard to be able to sing ok for your role, and then suddenly you're in a new group and your voice isn't able to do what it used to, and you don't know why. It's a shame that Hybe and many other companies are so negligent towards vocal training and protecting their artists.
But the real question is, was Sakura ever a capable singer? Or are we projecting our wishes on her? Was there ever a moment where she proved herself vocally in a live setting? Without the vocals being altered to death.
Exactly the poor girl has damaged her voice to the point where it looks painful for her to sing, it must suck to even try to progress when in doing so you’re making the damage worse, it’s like if an athlete broke their leg but keeps trying to win, to problem of that is that they’re 1. Keeping the injury from healing and 2. It will make them worse in the long run no matter how much they try to get better
@@melila928 she could be. She's had moments since debut where she has shown potential. She's always been unstable and inconsistent but if given things in her range and the proper support, she could be decent. She'll never be a Taeyeon, Wendy, or Solar but she could be a Yuna, smaller range with a pretty tone.
My impression is that the vocal trainer is trying to distance herself from the problem by dismissing it as a confidence issue. That way, the trainer can't be blamed for not providing proper technical training support. When Hybe/Source Music contracted with Sakura, they should have analyzed her skillset meticulously and formulated a viable plan to make a more competent singer out of her. Sakura came to Kpop scene at an older age (around 20) than any other Kpop artist from Japan and her fist gig was with Iz*one which was a project group that wasn't motivated to commit to her long-term development. Therefore, she had never had proper Kpop training prior to joining Le Seraphim in 2022 at the age of 24. Knowing all this, it is ridiculously negligent of the trainer to dismiss Sakura's lack of vocal skills as a confidence issue. If they continue to dodge the real problem - which is lack of amount of vocal training - I don't see how Sakura can regain confidence to perform on a live stage. I like Sakura as a person and as an entertainment industry personality. She is nice, smart, funny, sharp-witted and has a pleasant vibe. But since Le Seraphim was formed as replacement for G-Friend, my favorite ex-girl group, I take pleasure in saying that Hybe/Source Music brought this problem upon themselves. P.S. I have and will keep rooting for Sakura and the team. I'm sure they will get over this and continue to thrive.
@@AUGHHHHHBBG couldn't have said it better myself. like, confidence in performance most importantly comes from knowing you have the skillset and tools to pull off what you're about to do and that you practiced to get there ready, similarly how athletes train before a competition. her coach sounds amateur, too, which only makes it worse.
sakura is in this industry since years ago. men, if you don't have the vocal trained, the technique and the confidence by now, it is not this particular vocal coach, it is hybe who hired this 1d10t instead of so many other talented singers who can be all rounded artist.
hybe seriously needs to give le sserafim a hiatus and hire them a better trainer. during their hiatus, they can better their skills and their mental health with this break. public opinion of them will also soften up
Would be the smart decision. Right? But instead Hype put out a documentary, that again mentions their bad singing skills, and bringing this all up again. And then they will have a comeback. Were all people will look out for their vocals. And now we should hope, that they come back with better skills to have this surprise attack. Like baaabam we can sing. Or, which I think is worser, they used the docu for pity and changed nothing and the girls will get more hate. Will be interesting to see
I empathise with the girls on that they are victims of the current state of kpop. Kpop companies want instant success asap. They dont want to develop their idols, take their time and grow slowly and surely. And so they take shortcuts. And compared to gen 2 and the rise of social media. If u have money and connects thats all u need rn. Talent doesnt matter much anymore.
doesn't help that le sserafim kinda debuted popular already, in spite of the garam situation, for having two of the most popular members of the arguably most popular 4th gen ggroup (izone). and their comebacks, in spite of the hate trains and criticism, still made huge numbers on the charts and sales. so yeah, safe to say hybe/soumu probably felt comfortable in not really honing their skills if the fans and the public (for the most part) give them money regardless.
When I saw that clip I saw everything, but vocal coaching. That vocal coach behaved more like a psychologist. No wonder Le Sserafim never improve their vocals. Yunjin should seriously sneak to Aespa when they have vocal classes.
It's not the vocal coach, it's the company. Even the only one who could sing before kcw, has backslid. Even though I don't think she was great but she could have improved/become great. The other girls were not trained. I feel the worst for kkura, ec, and zuha. Like they just need to turn the camera off, feel safe for a second and actually be coached. I good coach can get you to sing in your natural voice. The other two, I just don't think they have the drive after finding insta fame with p48, izone and lsf. Like chaewon is from infinites woollim. Artists need to have grit abs drive imo. Why try when you've sold more than almost every gg ever with the help of studio magic. I really used to blame ive (who I now think are great) for the state of kpop but it was hybe all along 🤪 I think you only have to look at jimin, txt, illit, lsf live encores to know what the problem is. Why are pledis/ador groups, not managed by bh, OK singers? Svt f9 and nj are all decent but the bang sihyuk groups are verging on tone deaf. Stop using Sakura as a scapegoat. I'm not even a fan but that girl is not trained in the Korean style.
I really feel your deep frustration in showing that scene with the vocal trainer. “Hey, why’d you lose confidence? Just do it like this! See? Easy! Just believe in yourself.” UGH It’s literally those memes that are like “how to draw a dog: step 1 - draw two circles, step 2: draw the rest of the dog.” She doesn’t have the training to get from A to B but they’re happy to just throw her into the deep end and then blame her for her lack of confidence when she starts to drown. It’s so frustrating.
their next cb is going to be very crucial for them, so for their sake, i hope they have improved even a little just enough for them to sing their encores properly. i've been feeling bad for them but if nothing is going to change then... i fear they have to carry that "tone deaf" group tag for a while.
tbh i fear it's never gonna leave them... they got criticized for their encore stages ever since debut and even then there hasn't been any major changes made in their training.
Honestly, it's really up to Eunchae and, especially, Sakura. Majority of the vocal criticism lies with those two. So, they're going to be under the most scrutiny for their upcoming live performance. If they both show, at least, _some_ improvements and stability, I think that they'll get praised for actually improving and genuinely putting in the work to improve. Kazuha has potential to show noticeable improvement, as she carries a decent sounding vocal tone. She also has the inherent drive to push herself to improve, as we've seen with her dancing abilities. She's already become the 2nd best dancer in LSF next to Chaewon.
I understand that self efficacy is important, but people acting like that will get rid of every problem here is disrespectful to singing as an art form. Singing involves so many different skills, and you usually need to develop them with that knowledge and intention. It's the same way as confidence will not help me magically draw the perfect hand or write a well structured plot. You need to understand what you are doing to do it well in most cases. While I am disgusted by the Le Sserafim hate train, I need people to be realistic on both sides of the issue. Great video!
I think there is also a lot of misunderstanding regarding Sakura's time in HKT48. Yes, she has been an idol for 10 years. However, people do not join HKT48 because their life dream is to be an idol. It's more considered a job to get so that you can later do what you actually want to do. People who join 48 groups will say I want to be a doctor, or I want to be an actor, or I want to be a teacher. Maybe they also thought that being an idol looks fun and cute. 48 groups are meant to be stepping stones hence why graduations are so celebrated. Not a lot of people actually desire to pursue being an idol sincerely but are rather idols so that they can pursue their actual dream. Chances are that Sakura was similar and only later decided to pursue being an idol more sincerely. And even if she was like this from the ground up, she would be more of an oddity in this regard inside her group. That culture explains why she did not pursue greater training whilst in HKT48. It's a fundamental difference in what an idol is in 48 groups vs Kpop groups that kpop fans just do not know or cannot understand. Afterwards she was put into izone where she focused on dancing (due to that being important as izone focused heavily on synchronization) and now she is in lesserafim with a company that does not desire to support her either. This is also fully ignoring her clear vocal damage. People point out that her vocals are shaky as if she doesn't sound insanely shaky just speaking.
THIS! So many people like to use “shes been an idol for a decade and still cant sing lmao” but they dont take time to research what her past idol life in Japan and Iz*one was even like. I may be biased, as Iz*One is/ was literally my ult group along with twice, so it really hurts me to see people hating on my girls 😭 however its also good to be realistic. Some stans are just delusional and will say things like “Sakura sounds amazing!” and “at least she sings better than you” and thats why stans have a bad reputation. Like its one thing to defend your favorite idols/ groups from jobless haters, but its another to just lie and pretend that everything is fine… that type of thinking will prevent idols from improving, which will just make them get hated even more Sorry I didn’t mean to write this much, sometimes I just get really passionate and have a lot to say 😅
And still. Produce48 was so many years ago. This is NOT Sakura hate. But by now, you'd think she'd wanna invest in a real vocal coach, even if she has to hire one herself. Even if she can only see said coach once every two weeks due to their schedule. If I ever get to the point where I'm *crying* due to low confidence over a skill I know I'm lacking in, I would get help for it.
It is sad. There are many videos of HKT48 that is singing so sweet and perfect. But the trouble is that she was not singing, only moving her month. She had few line at Iz*one´s musics, and I was always sad that she sang at some music only 2 lines. No a new group and she still singing few line again... And one of the blames: Lack of confidence! So you are a singer and you can not sing... Disappoint...
Imagine your math tutor asking you "Why aren't you confident? You can do it if you find it within yourself" like girl... what??? No, teach me how to understand this problem and fix it.
I want nothing more, DESPERATELY, for her to get some lessons and come out SINGING at these fools and shut them up!!! I'm not expecting Wendy, but she has the potential to be good!!
what i don't get is if SM artists seek out exterior vocal help even thought their company is known to give good vocal training, why on earth does she not look for other vocal couches outside hybe? she needs it
She never did. In AKB48, they trained individually, and she lacks compared to her peers but got center cause she was pretty. In Izone, she had no lines, and in Lesserafim, the line she gets are too hard for her.
I feel like she’s trying to make as much money as possible to retire early or go into acting or streaming. But Idk if hybe even allows their artist to seek exterior coaching.
Although not an excuse, remember how she debut in le sserafim? Doesnt hybe that persuaded her to join? Just my guess but she is not someone who really really want to be an idol anymore if not because of this. How do i put this, she is different than regular trainee who dream someday debuted in idol group. Especially how popular le sserafim got upon debuting
Exactly. I remember Baekhyun saying he did. If someone as good as Baekhyun can hire an outside coach, so can Sakura. I'm wondering if Hybe doesn't let them or something. Bc fr.
It’s so clear the vocal coach is too nice. I get caring about the feeling but the vocal coach isn’t pinpointing where Sakura need to change an it’s clear from her performances and how the vocal coach was acting during the documentary.
@@kkura09709How am I acting like an Asian parent- Also yes their is gentle teachers. I’m not saying be rude you do need to work with the person ur helping but there is gentle teachers and teachers who aren’t teaching.. These vocal coaches aren’t teaching well. They are coddling feelings too much and not addressing what the problem is and trying to figure out how to solve it which is their job. Sakura gonna stay not having confidence till they tell her exactly what she is struggling with so atleast she knows and even if they don’t teach her how to solve it she can know where to start herself. She is lost and the team around her is buggin
@@AUGHHHHHBBG the wording about her being “too nice” made me think you wanted her to treat sakura otherwise like some people around here, and again you’re talking about “coddling feelings” , responding to someone breaking down in front of you is not bad. the teacher being nice and caring about her feelings is not bad, its the way she seems to have structured these lessons
@@kkura09709that’s not what I’m complaining about and I’m sorry if it sounds like that. If she is crying u should comfort that’s a good thing. But esp what I mean by coddling feelings is for example her comment saying Sakura is giving 120%… Sakura is fighting hard but stuff like that her simply brushing it off as a confidence issue will not help Sakura
@@AUGHHHHHBBG one scene doesn’t show all that happens there, there’s a huge context neither of us are a part of, i agree with most of the things the channel says, and the last part of your reply too
Well this is the problem. Most of the SM Vocals coach was an ex idol of First and 2nd gen SM. They have too much loyalty to SM so we doubt that they want to be hired by other company to spill the secret formula of SM.
@chairmanrosethewisegentleman good vocal coaches are easy to find, but it's also about people clearly scouting the talent in which hybe doesn't do. They don't pick people who have underlying talent or passion. Sakura has always been in the industry but doesn't show any passion for improvement unlike (for a basic example) some like Leeseo and even wonyoung who took clear lip syncing criticism, kept silent and improved with I am.
This channel and the comment section are much better than many other TH-camrs (I am looking at you Sultry Film) and really gave constructive feedback to not only Sakura, the other members but also the techniques, constant concept change and vocal trainer. I hope Kkura gains her confidence and seeks a personal vocal trainer rather than just rely on HYBE’s vocal trainer who can focus and guide her to improve.
This is the consequence of always getting by and not addressing your shortcomings RIGHT FROM THE START. Sakura has been getting by in the industry. I remember the moment she got an A during PD48, I ask my self "why?". Her fans was so focused on her charisma, THAT she's famous in japan, she knows this idol life, all this stuff, but I know it's not gonna last long for the long run. The way she was edited in the show like she's improving vocally when its so obvious they were cutting the clips and manipulsting the edit. She has always been weak vocally but since she's always been getting by, the issue hasn't been addressed, now she's facing the consequences.
Watching all of the stuff with Le Sserafim just kinda hurts. I actually love them, and I've loved most of the music they've released which is kinda rare for me. I see how hard they work, and one aspect I love to see is how much joy appears to be in each performance they put on. If it's not genuine joy to be together and perform, then I have even MORE respect and admiration for it because that's hard to fake. They have strengths, and they clearly want to do well, so they have the drive to make their goals a reality. But somewhere along the way, their team and their company is deeply failing them and squandering all of that effort, drive, and motivation. And that's the worst thing of all in my eyes, seeing them struggle while they're doing everything in their power to fix the problems but aren't being given better tools and methods to actually fix things.
Sakura and shuhua are literally at the bottom vocally in kpop yet i truly think they can improve specially sakura they just have to take alot and alot of singing lessons
Wow thr thing is that soyeon help shuhua and nos she can sing a little, nos she can hold notes ... Before she was as bad as Sakura... So yes, shuhua at least so better, have you listen to her in the universities festival fancams, she was able to sing, good, nothing amazing but at least not mediocre or our of tune
Guys I think we’re overlooking the possibility (the likelihood imo) that the vocal lesson was fake or at least partially scripted to paint Sakura in a better light… That’s why they don’t do any actual vocal training in the clip-because the objective was to do PR damage control, not to depict real life. She deserves our empathy of course, but I wouldn’t draw strong conclusions about the ineptitude of the vocal coach (as many in the comments are doing) based on footage that is no doubt highly curated to depict the group in a sympathetic way.
What makes me sad is that as a result, people think *all* idols from Japan cant sing, rap and/or dance. As a fan of multiple JPOP groups - boy and girl groups alike - that just doesn't feel true to me. Maybe some groups, but not all of them. It's the generalization for me :/ (also yes by JPOP groups I mean those who debuted in Japan in a Japanese company, not KPOP's Japanese groups to clarify that, although the ones I know who were debuted by Korean companies also aren't bad and often are amazing too)
Japanese groups, like HTK48 and HTB48, do not focus on singing and the like. The JPOP idol track is more about fan interaction and personality development. You want further evidence of this? Go rewatch the evaluation episodes of Produce 48. Almost all of the Japanese idols were given low scores. More than a few had their abilities questions, ie "How did you debut when you can't dance?" Sakura had next to no training for singing while in HTK/AKB48, as a result it gave her a poor foundation to build on. The only thing a JPOP and KPOP idol have in common is the word 'Idol', and even then quite a few Japanese artists go out of their way to avoid the label. Saying Sakura has "Been and idol for 10 years" is technically correct, but assuming that means she's had singing lessons for all of those ten years is not the case.
@@andrewpelham1269 I know. But thats what I mean with the JPOP groups I like, they aren't like that. But to each their own, 10 years is still a lot to barely anything imo (or so it feels at least)
The poor thing is being gaslit into thinking that should already know how to sing well. How will she have the confidence to ask elsewhere for help if her company is telling her that it’s just a her problem and not a total lack of training problem?
It’s sad that hybe only persuaded her to join them because they need to debut a group with someone popular to compete against Aespa & Ive. There are many trainees who are competent and ready to debut for their talents, but sadly they couldn’t, because of their lack of popularity or ‘visuals’
Yeah they (HYBE) chose to debut mostly non-vocalists to form the team and this is the result. They should have known the team wasn’t balanced even before adding Eunchae, another non-vocalist, into the group. Their two singers don’t even have enough main vocalist materials
I've been thinking about this for a long time, even before the hate train. But I think Sakura has some sort of health problem in her vocal chords or throat, that can be fixed only with vocal chord surgery. Even her speaking voice is very unstable and shaky and it sounds chronically strained
Personally? I dont really think so unless she herself decides to seek out a vocal coach on her own. She's been doing this for basically as long as Eunchae has been alive and would rather spend her free time knitting (or something similar, I forgot), which fair enough, but she has also made comments similar to how 'idols dont really need to know how to sing' (or something similar) which doesn't apply to KPOP or JPOP - for most groups but especially those with longevity - so... yeah she can have her opinion but as a former fan, Im more disappointed than sad nowadays. I wish the 5 of them all the best still.
Im disgusted with Soumu and Hybe, and i also felt a bit of annoyed towards Sakura. She has all the money and connection to seek outside help to improve her skill. Any artist who deeply cared about their arts and skill would always find a way to improve on their own. Baekhyun, Chen, Xiumin, and A guy from Stray Kids seek vocal coach outside company. Lee Hi when she was still in YG, and Winner Kang Seungyoon seek vocal coach outside YG. I felt bad, but also annoyed? Shes been crying since i knew her about the same thing. Whinning and crying here and there. Then fix it girl. She had met a lot of powerful vocalists in kpop industry. Go find Taeyeon ask her: does she have recommendation on vocal teacher? Or Yunjin who is a colleague of Winter Aespa, ask her. Man, if I had that kind of connection, I would directly DM Taeyeon or Wendy asking Vocal Coach recommendation.
@@chickennerd2085 I mean, thats what I mean. I feel like she has other priorities and thats fine, but there's no reason to make statements like she has when there are idols out there who improve on a yearly basis, who want to improve and so on... Either way, Im also disappointed so Im focusing on other groups now.
@@glaciemdracoIm also disappointed so much. I used to be their fans. Im a patience fans. I would always hope my fave' improvement. No idols is perfect in their craft when they debuted (except TVXQ), but little to zero improvement on their vocals even years in the industry? At least be decent. What made me disappointed so much was her long ass essay after coachella saying "this is our best performance." Hello? Did i just get gaslight? It turned me off so quickly. Now, I focused more on other groups and even I knew and watched this documentary bc her fans kept shitting on other groups with her crying clips and it became viral.
@@chickennerd2085 Yeah, their best isn't horrible but its also kinda ... ? ... coming from a big company and all. But maybe thats just me. Hopefully their company has actual plans for them... someday :D
@@chickennerd2085 Sakura made a post about everyone having high standards and Chaewon basically showing the middle finger in her story just shows that they don't care at all.
love your videos and you’re 100% correct. She doesn’t have good trainers and that’s a huge part of the problem. The fact that they start by just singing a song is terrible. In my years of musical and vocal training, never do you just start out of nowhere without warming up first. 10-15 minutes to help find the healthy technique is so crucial. Basic classical training techniques could do wonders for her voice. There’s so much tension, and as someone who’s biggest problems with vocals has been tensions and constriction, I know that if she could just get some basic training it would help so much. She needs to relax her larynx and not compress it as much, that’ll help her find that nice pocket where she can then explore her chest range. From there it’s all a ladder to success, I just want someone to give her the proper techniques that’ll help her.
We tend to forget one thing as fans. The documentary of Lesserafim proved again that not only haters caused the girlies to be in this state. SOME Fearnots kept comparing them with their colleagues like IVE, NMIXX... etc. calling them untalented and bullying other fandoms which means every other fandom were actually waiting for the things they said like "Yunjin clears all your Vocalist" or "Sakura is good for someone coming out from Japan/J-Pop" and once all of that bragging wasn't real, it backfired. It's true that in 2022, Lesserafim were part of the few girl grouo that sang live, but their vocals never were on point, but Fearnots and hybe kept pushing them. Yunjin's words saying she wanted to change the industry were twisted by her own fans and even her talent (she's not an opera singer). They kept saying she would or she is when, in fact, she just began. How can she when her "family" is not letting her the time to and are already shoving her name in every people's mouth. Like the : "At Lesserafim can sing live". It clearly came back to them cause every other girl group actually sang live better than them : Ive at Lollapalooza, for example. And Lesserafim played the victim cards with apology and middle finger on stories cause they know how dumb fans are and it's not first time that everytime Lesserafim are in a controversy, fans defend them and five days later, Lesserafim use the same made up excuse to base on and say "do not judge" when their actions are more than simply problematic. They just don't care. And they learned how to not care. Hybe is to blame even more. Those girls are/were not good mentally even though Hybe and their fans claim that they have a therapist and psychologist on site. They used their pain as content for pity even though it looks like those girls are showing signs of imposter syndrome feeling ungrateful and unworthy. Hybe is acting all nice by saying "you can stop if you're tired, don't push yourself" when in fact, those girls spent years with Hybe toxic management so it's not in their genes anymore to sop when they are tired. Those girls starved themselves too under Hybe's management. They clearly were made to not say no or not or feel like a disappointment. Hybe debuted those girls only with 4 months of training as a group, when usually groups take 2 years to train and figure out what sound is best for them. It's good we share a light on haters cause some of them really want to end Lesserafim, but at the end of the day, Hybe and Fearnots have more influence on those girls than anyone else. They are the one who make think Eunchae will be ugly in a few years, not the contrary. The documentary was a media play, and the excuse they had was the previous documentary they made for antifragile. But where was the red line ? What did we learn about the documentary? Where were Kazuha and Chaewon in the documentary? What makes them different from other idols ? Cause we literally learned nothing from it, and Lesserafim will be the first victim and first one to suffer the hate train.
Well said. Especially that point about hybe actively profiting off their misfortune... As was the case with this documentary. At this point, it almost feels like they wait until things get too bad till they take action ; just for the buzz that comes with it. I'm not even a fearnot but it still rubs me the wrong way. It's awful
@fearnot_jeans you basically mentioned everything I had grievances with regarding HYBE and Le Sserafim. ALSO - mostly unrelated, but thank you SO much for bringing Ive's Lollapalooza performance to my attention. I didn't even know they were invited until I read your (long) comment, and I had a really fun time watching the whole thing just now.
6:09 felt that so hard, and i'm not a vocalist (brass player here, euphonium specifically.) i appreciate that you're mentioning the constant criticism deflection that's done by fearnots, because overhyping sakura's skills won't help her either. as a music major, that vocal teacher is frustrating. she needs to be fired, and hopefully sakura can get help from someone who fits and has a good reputation.
My bestfriend started taking vocal lessons a year and a half ago, completely from scratch. When I tell you she improved would be an understatement. She has developed: skill, personal style and *range*, from the literal basics. And do you know how she did it? She practiced every day, phrase by phrase, sometimes even word for word for *hours*, so that she could go directly to the source of the problem before she could even attempt a whole verse. I think that this is what Sakura needs, a good vocal coach, that teaches her good vocal habits *from scratch*.
And that's fair, but you can also still follow and support those that didn't make it to debut and hope they'll find success elsewhere. Voice alone won't always secure a spot. Let's not forget Jyp rejected Yuju (Gfriend main vocalist) because her singing wasn't enough for him in particular, but later she found a company that wanted her.
Then you can support strong vocal groups like NMIXX, BROWN EYED GIRLS, KIOF, and sooooooo many other groups that are very good at singing. How does Sakura effect talented singers from not making it into the group? She doesn’t. They can debut and you guys can CHOOSE to support them. But you guys only complain about bad singing then don’t support lesser known groups who are very good singers.
I feel like the whole confidence thing is just a way for the "vocal coaches" to make people think they're actually helping sakura instead of giving actual technical advice People can still be good singers with low confidence. Look at DK for example, he is quite hard on himself and that's part of the reason why he still hasn't gone onto LMJ though there are a decent amount of idols who have appeared on the show with lesser vocal capabilities than him. What makes you a halfway decent or even good singer is a good coach who can ACTUALLY GIVE YOU REAL ADVICE and hours upon hours of practice. Sakura can for sure improve her vocals significantly by finding an external coach
oh my god THANK YOU for this video. I've been saying the ENTIRE TIME that the entire problem in Sakura's lost of confidence and backlash is because Hybe does not help a single bit. They need to give her REAL vocal classes, not just a "aw you can do it", she needs to be trained in singing ! I'd say every Hybe idols basically needs to have a vocal teacher as well but that's another discussion.
Everyone in their right mind should agree to this too. The difference between singers, dancers, and idols is that idols are supposed to be able to handle both. Idols are basically singers who trained to be able to perform singing and dancing at the same time, and rapping for the most dedicated ones.
I'm literally 13 years old and I could do a better job training someone at Sakura's skill level than that vocal coach. When I first saw that clip I assumed that the woman was a producer or something teaching Sakura her parts. I imagine she must be confused too, wondering why she's not improving with these "vocal lessons" and blaming it on herself.
@@Emgee78 I... could, actually. I've been self-training for a couple years now and I've helped out a couple of my friends. But in any case, I should reiterate: I don't know what other training techniques that vocal coach has, but based on that clip, it seems very unhelpful and I could at least do a minimum that she isn't doing.
I feel bad for Sakura. People have been just brutal towards her, and I completely understand how that could make her terrified to sing. If I were in her shoes, I might feel the same way. And saying “Just be confident!” is magical thinking. Competence leads to confidence. And she’s not getting the tools she needs to be competent. Which is leading to a massive case of imposter syndrome, which is just making things worse. Companies don’t care about vocal competence, because they’ve got the crutches of pitch correction for studio vocals, and backing tracks for “live” performances. They have no incentive to do better for their idols in regard to their vocals.
I have seen so much unfair hate in this comment section I am going to let this information here: Sakura debuted in Japan at 13 years old after around 3 months of training. The japanese idol training and skillset is NOTHING alike to the korean one. Japanese idols are supposed to be personable, to make fans happy and remember their names, to be funny. They are NOT supposed to be particularly great singer or to know how to dance well. Sakuras voice in AKB 48 was way stronger than it is now and 7 years of her career were spent in Japan. We are talking about a girl who worked from the ages 13-20 in her home country without much voice or dance lessons. In 2018 sakura was in the TV show produce 48 with a lot of other Japanese idols and they were ridiculed because the idea koreans have of idols (and the training) simply didn't match the one in japan. They mocked their dancing and their singing and a lot of other things. In three months she made great improvement to her dancing to the point she could actually kind of dance, you can compare ger intial and her final performance. She became a better dancer in IZONE and in Lesserafim she isn't even considered a bad kpop idol dancer and is pretty ok within her dance heavy group. She also learned korean. This is all while working non-stop in double country promotions. She has composition credits, she has movie, tv and web series credits and even a 4 year long radio show and a makeup brand. She stopped Japanese idol promotions in 27 june 2021 (she had continued all the time after Izone diabandment) and on may 2 2022 she debuted. The girl has a total of 18 months time exclusively for training under her belt. That was it, 3 of them being trained japanese style. That means that from the age of 13 the girls has basically been doing ONE thing: WORKING. For contrast eunchae trained 2 whole years and she is 17 right now. Kazuha is 21 and trained between 5-6months with lesserafim but she also was a professional ballet dancer that had studied not just in japan, but in Moscow, in the UK and in the Dutch National Ballet academy before even beginning her training with Lesserafim. Sakura actually sang better before going to train to Korea, she was a lot more plesant and stable. You guys are bullying someone who did child labour from the age of 13 and has not have even the same training time as her team mates, one of them almost 10 years her junior. The girl has worked and worked and worked. Criticism doesn't need to mean outright cruelty.
@@aintnootherfan It wasn't a criticism towards you I think your videos are usually very graceful and balanced it was towards all the hate people are leaving down here. These people are legitimately insane saying she is lazy. A 26 year old with 13 years of working experience is insane. It shouldn't be a thing and this people are ignoring the fact that for most of that "experience" time she was a working child. It makes me angry and at the same time it breaks my heart seeing people be so unfair. I am not even a lesserafim fan but I know her from IZONE and it genuinely feels like slander.
What you said about jpop isn’t really true though. It may be the case for ak48 and those sort of groups, but jpop has tons of talented artists. For proof, choose a random anime opening and listen the live performance. More than likely, it’s going to be decent at least. Also, think of artists like yaosabi or Lisa. They’re definitely not weak.
@@kpopnimation I didn't say jpop in general (I love anime too, the openings are always epic). I said japanese idol training specifically and that's a comment specifically about groups like AKB48 not the japanese music industry as a whole. Is like if I had said "Most western boy groups can't dance because that isn't their main appeal" and you responded saying "But we have boy DANCE crews" like of course man, japan has great music but japanese idols are more heavy on fan meetings and live entertainment.
@@kpopnimation for the most part, idol ≠ singer. What idol sell is their popularity, personality, fan service. Especially in big group, voice is not a priority, thats a fact as long as there is few who can fill that role. But some people will callin them out obviously. And Sakura choosen as member honestly not because she is perfect idol who can sing, dance and all that, she was popular.
There are video of somi gets help on how to sing confidently with better skill from SM vocal coach in show unnie slam dunk and I hope this happen for them, somi improved by applying the technique and gain her confidence, even for that show but it gives people a better perspective or the idea that "somi can't sing" and "somi didn't work hard" isn't actually true.
"Hopefully, she will even learn how to enjoy singing." This part is important too. When the way is long and hard, you'd better enjoy it. I remember the words of babymonster dance coach LEEJUNG LEE: "Rather than to think 'I want them to be good dancers', my mentality was 'I want them to love dancing, a lot' ". Hope Le sserafim will get this kind of coach for vocals.
Honestly thats just how it is in kpop that idols never really improve vocally. 99% of idols are pretty much the same as they were at debut even after years of being active. And if there are predebut materials available, you can tell that many have the same skillset they had before they even became trainees. And it applies to companies like SM entertainment as well. (Many sm vocalists improved but afaik not under sm) Im not really sure why is it like that since idols apparently take vocal lessons ever since they start training.
This might be a hot take, but if Sakura didn't have her popularity from HKT/AKB and went through the Korean trainee cycle, she would of never debuted. Potential gets you in the door, but hard work and determination gets you across the finish line. I like her, but to me it always seemed like she coasted by because of her fanbase.
Confidence, talent, dedication, these are all things an idol should never have to rely on 100%. It says a lot about Sakura as a person to have gotten this far without any help or guidance from the people around her who SHOULD be helping her.
Not to start a fan war, but I see parallels between Le Sserafim and Stray Kids that make me really mad at Source. In Stray Kids’ survival series, JYP (person) noted how their songs were composed in an octave typically reserved for female vocalists as it was on the higher end of the male vocal range. Similar to have Fearnots are always justifying Le Sserafim’s poor vocal performances on none of the songs allegedly being in a key suitable for their ranges. What’d the Stray Kids members do? They practiced. Woojin and Han were especially working hard as they had to hit the high notes in “Hellevator”. We watched them struggling to hit the notes to the point where their voices were hoarse. What else? Hyunjin and Felix were having issues with their annunciation. Hyunjin wasn’t singing clearly. So, he practiced with a pencil in his mouth to get his mouth movements to be wider and allow him to pronounce the words better and to project. Felix was struggling because his Korean speaking skills were pretty mediocre at the time (not like I’m one to talk since mine are practically nonexistent). That happened throughout the series. Within spans of 2-3 days, they’d work so hard to be capable of performing after having fixed these issues. What’d Sakura do? Twice we saw “She’s trying her best. She’s giving it her all!” And where are the results to show for it? Actually, all of the members get criticized for their vocals with Chaewon usually getting a pass as her pop vocals are serviceable and Yunjin’s classical vocals are great too (even if they don’t always translate well to Le Sserafim’s music). While HYBE may not be known for their vocal prowess (outside of Seventeen, Fromis_9, and GFriend), they have more than enough resources to scout out some of the best vocal coaches in the industry. Not a bunch of baby sitters that’ll just comfort the idols when they do bad. If you look at SKZ’s vocal coach, she was extremely strict with Woojin and Seungmin. She knew what they were capable of. If they weren’t doing well, they were going to hear about it. Does Sakura deserve anywhere near the level of hatred and buIIying that she’s received? Absolutely not. But she needs to be given proper instruction and discipline or she’ll never improve and will continue to be ridiculed.
And not only that, but after debuting, Seungmin was aware that he could still improve further, so he went on his own to find a vocal coach outside the company (I imagine he realized that he had reached the limit of what JYPE's vocal coach could help with, and he didn’t want to stay stagnant, knowing that he could and should improve). After seeing how much he improved with the new coach, Lee Know also sought him out. Today, we can see how both have improved tremendously, even though they were never bad vocalists. I think Sakura shouldn’t stay stuck with Hybe’s coach, or she’ll remain at this level, thinking that what she lacks is confidence on her part and empathy from the public. Meanwhile, Hybe and Source Music profit while she takes all the hate.
@@Amanda-mv4qr THIIIS!!! Seungmin, Lee Know, and I.N have improved so much over the last few years! JYPE is limited in what they can provide to their idols in terms of vocal training. Looking at Woojin, he improved so much since he left the company. Once Seungmin took things into his own hands, he also so great strides in his vocal journey. Someone needs to get Sakura in touch with a vocal coach outside of HYBE because they’re as useful as a middle aged mom selling “healing crystals”.
that's what I've been saying! she was in arguably the most popular girl group of 4th gen (izone) and le sserafim is still Very popular and profitable. hell, she might have enough money to hire a whole team.
To be fair we also don’t know the contracts they are under cus kpop companies like managing everything including stuff like that. I thought this too but she might not be allowed to or just never had the idea to cus I don’t think she even know her vocal coach sucks
I do undetstand Sakura pain. I have severe trigger for my finacial part. I have tried hard but fail many time in the past. It stem from my dyfuctional narcisistic family. My dad keep bullied me since I was young that I will never be able to support myself. All life situation and relationship take me to mental breakdown. It took me years to be able to feel like normal person who can take normal job. It too painful to even think about back then. I hope Sakura can get through life and heal her inner wound.
6:48 debatable, if she's rational, then it should be rationale enough to say that it's her job to properly sing or the least "be average". I remember there was one idol being asked about practicing 12 hours a day while she rationally and logically answered "It's my job" without a single excuse. "a lot" of talentless people become so talented after practicing days and nights like crazy, they're also crying and depressed behind the curtain without any "documentary" but they keep going not knowing if they will make it or not. I feel like the documentary is just an "excuse" to say that they're struggling and to make people empathize yet still, every idol or every artists, they also struggle in their own way, some even worse that have never been captured on camera. it's safe to say it's her job to sing "average".
After seeing that vocal coach I really believe that KKura should invest in outside training and find someone that will genuinely help her to improve and get her to a place where she is more relaxed and comfortable when she sings. Other idols in the past had to go outside because the company workers playing games!
the worst thing is that I noticed most of the kpop vocal coaches tend to be like that, they dont work to develop their voices but they take their singing for granted acting like that is “their tone” or “their vocal color” and just try to make sure they dont go off key on stage
This might come as an unpopular opinion, but I feel once an idol starts making the bag, he or she needs to improve himself or herself on their own. The reason why Baekhyun, D.O , Chen , Taeyeon, Wendy, D.K, Seungkwan, Taeil, amongst other vocalists are competent with their singing is because the stepped out of their comfort zone.Sometimes, the company can do just little for you, you need to break out of that shell in order to give off your best and I strongly feel that’s where Sakura is lacking
That's untrue. The reason why a lot of these vocalists are good is because they sought actual training prior to joining companies and were specifically recruited for their exceptional vocal abilities. They had the capabilities and positive reinforcement to enjoy their craft. They had the foundations to work on it over the years even with the limited help from kpop companies, and many of the ones you listed are also veteran idols who have a lot of freedom to live alone and seek external coaches
I just find it crazy how Hybe literally set these girls up for failure. People have been coming for them since debut and nothing has changed. Hybe should have seen the early criticism and taken action instead of letting it get to this point. The criticism has turned into bullying and these talented ladies are being dragged through the mud and losing confidence simply because they lack the necessary training that a company as big as Hybe could easily provide. It's hard stanning the girls right now and I can only imagine how they feel being the most hated gg this year. I hope that they can take a break to refine their skills so that they can come back swinging.
Well, I don't know but she's been an idol for more than 10 years, and in the previous documentary about the group, she also said that she was scared of singing, one year had passed and she's saying the same thing. And she has time to crochet her performing outfits but doesn't have time to practice her singing skills?
also she makes more money than us will ever make with years of working, but she's still relying on the company's coach who's not exactly helping her with technicalities when she CAN afford a vocal coach who will help her better identify her problems and fix them. come on now, sakura.
Ever heard of a hobby you do outside of work? She can't and shouldn't be working 24/7 and she seems to be crocheting before she had to perform and in her free time
you want her to replace something that she likes with something she’s scared of? she’s said she wants to like singing, her goal is not different from what you want it to be, please be kind.
@@kkura09709 well then instead of being an idol, she should choose other jobs that really suit her. And if she really wants to be an idol then she should live up to the expectation of an idol. As someone said above, she has all the money to hire a different vocal coach to help her improve
The op in the video also said that singing is the thing that differentiate idols with back dancers, if an idol can't sing then what is the different between them and the back dancer? Back dancers dance very well and their stage prensence is no joke too y'know?
1st the hate that she get is just disgusting, yes she need vocal training but how can expect her improving with this joke, and hybe stans should rather get angry on hybe😮 i notice that before with BTS back on the day but Hybe (formaly big hit) dont care on the technique or even about the specifity of their idols V once revealed that he use to be scoled because he don't sing high, i think that why they let Jimin damaged his voice for 10 years because he sung high i my opinion Hybe just teach their idol in to sing a specific standard way of singing regardeless of their specifity of their own voices and call it a training and like you said they don't even teach the excercises that a beganer like Sakura need. i'm not a singer or vocal coach but i think the 1st think do a kind of diagnosis, and explain to her why she struggle help her to understand her voice and teach how use it correctly with excercises to master the bases of a good vocal technique. here i feel like it's like you put someone how don't even know to swim in the big pool and ask him to swim and called it training. i'm not sure that the lady is even a real vocal coach, i feel they just ask on of their producer to do the job since many people complaining about the lack of vocal of the girls honestly my advice for the girls is if they can afford it to hire a competente vocal coach with their own money
i think at this point, sakura definitely has some kind of vocal damage because her voice is shaky and uneven even when she speaks. she (and the rest of the group) needs an actual vocal trainer instead of whoever it is hybe assigned them bc it clearly isn't working. chaewon and yunjin are regressing while the other the other three are stagnant. if not that, then i'm afraid that if the girls really want to improve, they just need to hire a trainer themselves since hybe doesn't seem keen on helping.
Dude Sakura is arguably the richest member of the group, she can literally afford to hire a vocal teacher to improve her vocal skills... But what did she do during her 10-year career as an idol?
SHE DOES NEED MORE CONFIDENCE. But she needs to find her own voice first. Get a vocal coach who had to learn how to sing for themselves, not just someone that knows music. She can improve if she uses her own voice!
This is really frustrating. It shows how little a company like HYBE cares about their idols, tbh. They certainly have the resources to get actual vocal coaches, but instead they choose to showcase Sakura's insecurities, blame her for them, and monetise them, when they could help her grow out of them through proper training. It's infuriating.
If you’re passionate about singing you don’t need to wait for a company to give you a fruit you just search for it. I’m so proud that my bias has been doing it since debuted he respects his jobs and fans he still go to vocal sessions even though he’s in 10 years in this industry and ofc he’s amazing singer never disappointed his fans
I think Hybe blaming her lack of confidence takes the responsibility off of their lack of proper training. That’s why they refuse to admit it’s a technique problem, otherwise it would be their fault
hit the nail on the head. they got so confident about the sales and streams, it would immensely hurt their egos to admit they have mediocre idols in spite of that
HYBE/Source Music doesn't help them with this nonsense documentary, honestly. They literally threw them under the bus, again! Also, it's worth mention, when I learn to play piano, my teacher didn't hug me like a baby when I messed up something, he hit me with a freakin' wand. I'm not saying Idols should be hit with something, but babying them never gonna help. Especially BIG4 groups. BIG4 agencies, mostly HYBE and YG don't want to care about vocals, because they think being mainstream is enough already. Kpop fandom overall is MUCH BIGGER than any fandom of a group, so they will be judged more than a small agency group, and that's why they should focus on vocals and their main positions FIRST, than visuals and other stuff. Sakura knows she's bad, and she's in this industry for 13 YEARS, so I can't just blame the company, it's her fault as well! Sure, in Jpop vocals are not important, but she's a Kpop Idols for many years. Maybe it's just me, but she earns A LOT of money, so she has enough to hire a freakin' vocal trainer by herself. She doesn't need to wait for her lazy company.
@@AUGHHHHHBBG no wonder basically all of their newer groups (i.e the ones created after hybe bought companies) struggle with vocal technique. jake from enhypen said once that they're basically left with their own devices in terms of training.
@@northrnstar are we shocked tho? Like people been saying recently hybe is the SHEIN of kpop. They are fast fashion and pop out many groups without putting in effort to said group. Even for the mini companies like belift, source, etc are getting fed a new group every year now so they might be working on group but then it’s like “Source music have a new group called (enter random name)” People don’t get the time to relax with hybe and groups and it’s ridiculous. Popping out more kpop groups then Kylie Jenner announcing brand launches
hybe and source dgaf abt their artists receiving hate. they're reallly quick in taking down anything that can damage the reputation of their board members n ceo but they will let their artists suffer all the harm in the world. u can tell by how they treat garam, now newjeans, how they never provide good vocal training for lsf despite them getting hated for it. this is why fearnots should NOT stan that company!!! stop defending that company and hold them accountable!!!
I think sakura has been too reliant on auto tune and back tracking. When she got exposed that she can’t sing. It was hard to hide behind the auto tune anymore. People wanted to hear her vocals but she’s not able to deliver. She can’t even lip-sync atp cause people will call her out even more. So her only option is to train hard and prove people she is capable. Best of luck.
Obviously hybe only cares about money. Sakura during iz*one era has been improving constantly little by little. like idk why hybe won't focus on the basic needs of their idols. They have so much money. they'd gain more by investing properly.
Someone needs to have a word with sakura and explain everyone has a voice some are strong some are uniquely the person's voice with less range but it doesn't stop anyone from being a idol and expressing yourself . People expect alot for pop artists to sing and dance live. Not all singers have insane range of vocals I don't understand why people are new to this. she has to have some vocal Therapy where she has a nice relaxing relationship with a vocal coach with lots of experience who understands her back ground and story if her vocals improve or not I just want her to be confident she is one of the most intriguing and curious K-pop artists I get the feeling she will disappear from the limelight one day I hope not she is very entertaining and interesting can't help but route for her ✌️ Kura gang. Also I really respect you for your opinions on this video because I agree. Hybe sort this out 🤼
if hybe does not give sakura the resources she needs to improve, shes going to think she doesnt need to. her lack of growth is mostly not even her fault, because a vocal coach is meant to know best or at least better than her, so their advice is probably absolute to her. but unfortunately those coaches at hybe have not been giving her the advice she needs.
To say that confidence is a magical thing is an unfortunate phrasing. Confidence is the first (not the only) thing to work on: confidence is the belief that you CAN do something. So without confidence, you don't learn, practice or even show up! My 15 years of doing coaching has proven me than confidence is always the foundation to effective work. First confidence, then work on skills.
People is seems to forget that having a great vocal is also a gift, even if kkura's training for another years I doubt that she will ever improve, but I hope at least she can do basic, that was how bad her voice is, but well... Didn't blame her, it's company's fault for continue debuting idol who clearly can't sing
Obviously she wants to do better but Hybe isnt providing the tools for her to even do the bare minimum. Even if her natural vocal range, tone quality or innate musicality cant be helped with training, at this point the company should have at least taught her the basics of singing, vocal technique, breath control etc, just so she can get her lines out without her voice trembling. She's a victim of Hybe imo
Is she capable of improvement? Yes, of course. Will she actually do it? Most likely no. She’s been hearing these criticisms since Produce 48 and hasn’t improved her vocals at all by now. And the documentary was filmed before Coachella, so she went there knowing her weaknesses and still had the nerve to say her performance there was the best she’d ever given after fans fairly critiqued her vocals and asked the company to invest more in her training. So it’s not just on the company, she herself hasn’t taken any individual steps to improve her vocals and won’t address it honestly when it’s brought up, so I don’t see her attempting to change at this point in her career
she needs to take a break from activites. go calm herself, get confidence, and trained herself more bfr continuing promoting with the grp. she needs that. she cant continue working in that condition knowing singing was her weakest point rn. she in a situation where she actually can get all sorts of help if she wanted to. go find yourself the best vocal teacher
To me, Sakura just lacks basic natural talent in singing. She’s missing something foundational and that’s why she doesn’t seem to get better after so many years in the industry. I think what she’s lacking is something you have to be born with and I don’t think it’s something you can be trained to do. Even me with no vocal warmups can nail her parts in songs quite easily and I’m not even trained to sing. I’m willing to be proven wrong but I just think that’s her basic problem. And that’s why the conversation about her is redundant. She can’t really sing and she’s unable to improve because of that. So there’s really nothing to be done (or maybe she can meet up with SM’s vocal trainers.)
Probably doesn't have the type of musicality to understand nuances in different styles and vocal techniques. She doesn't seem to notice pitch in that one clip where she's confused.
It’s either she is naturally tone-deaf or she absolutely has 0 understanding of the technicalities. Like girl doesn’t know how to project her voice (she does what is called swallowing your own voice), not to sing in flat notes, rhythm and other basic things. A decent vocal coach would have told her not to swallow her own voice and be confident to start with. Without projecting your own voice you are absolutely doing nothing.
I guess sakura is just one of those people who are just not cut out for singing. Additionally, she also has to unlearn the bad techniques she have picked up for the past 10 years in her career. By the time, she will get the most basic down, she'll probably on her kpop retirement age. So it's a hopeless case for me. The vocal coach seems more like a motivational speaker than an actual vocal coach to me.
this is the difference between a “vocal coach” and a “voice teacher.” more people need to be aware of the difference. sakura needs a teacher, not a coach.
Tbh if u got into a group without being able to sing or dance well, i dont think the company picked you for ability. As a company why invest in something they deem a lost cause or has little to no benefit for them financially. If Sakura sings a bit better it won't change the amount of money they receive. Sakura isnt here for her ability to sing or dance. She got in because of her popularity that she rightfully deserves and worked hard for since she was a child. In the real world a company isn't always going to train you, you have to learn and train independently on your own time. That is life.
if anything, this documentary really just showed how hybe didn't choose the correct trainers for the girls. why are they pointing out her lack of confidence and not the technicalities? and how the heck would sakura understand what the producer meant with "singing in a brighter tone"? this truly makes me so frustrated (as someone who received singing lessons when i was younger, that is NOT how a proper trainer begins a session). sigh.
Srsly like the coach was more like passing time she hugged and stopped her crying but couldn’t she teach Sakura
That coach felt more like they were doing 10 different jobs but certainly not that of a vocal coach.
Yes, like is the technique that would give her confidence, cause she would know that she is capable. There is no way that she will be confident knowing that her skills are not that stable. She needs a new coach that can help her from the base.
I agree with your point, but with the producer tho, it's not their fault. They are producer, they dont give a shi* whether some person can sing or not, that person just need to sing their part and deliver what's in the producer's head to potray how the song will be. The one who will interpret these directions are the singer itself. Now, if the singer lacks the knowledge itself, that would entail a much bigger problem like what it has seen in Sakura. The faults are in how Hybe did not pursue better coaches for the girls, who are not to be motivator but to be a teacher.
That vocal trainer is the worst one I have seen. She did not mention once anything about vocals. All the vocal trainer yapped about was confidence. If Sakura learned to sing, she would get more confidence. However she can’t sing so she can’t suddenly get confident.
That vocal teacher is much better to be an inspirational speaker its ridiculous
“Why did you lose confidence?”
Idk I have ears maybe and something feels wrong?
@@aintnootherfan I'm really sad for Sakura since I rooted for her since Produce 48 I always believed that she'll improve but then she's stuck with this kind of teacher and it feels kinda hopeless
Agree, this behavior might be the reason why Sakura isn’t improving and why the public’s response hurts her, her coach says she’s doing fine when she isn’t, she believes it and gets a different reaction from the public, giving her more doubts and anxiety
Hybe vocal teachers are pretty bad. Most of the good Hybe singers use other vocal coaches like DK and Seungkwan from Seventeen does. Jungkook also paid for his own vocal coach. Those trained by Hybe like Jimin and Le Sserafim have lots of faults in their technique.
@@aintnootherfan that "teacher" pissed me off so bad with this stupid comment! She must not be worried about her own reputation at all either... who's calling her for vocal lessons when she's putting saku out there like that??
Personally i think this is mostly the company's fault even in the documentary they are almost always practicing dancing and when she sees the vocal coach the coach tells her "it's been a while" ???? Like what do you mean it's been a while she has been getting so much hate for her vocals why is the company not helping them with their vocals and still make them practice dancing until they almost pass out . İ really feel for the girls
The dance practice focus source and hybe have is so bad.
All of hybe groups can dance REALLY WELL. Yet they keep only focusing on that which cause all of their groups to have a scandal over vocals or rap every other buisness day
@@AUGHHHHHBBG yeah hype have a really high and toxic dancing standart for their group it's absolutely ridiculous plus the girls are already such amazing dancers but they apparently want them to become professional dancers not idols. İ really feel sad for the girls they are being drained by these dance practice
@@blue-fv3eh Exactly. It’s bad too cus the face of hybe being BTS makes many people think “Since these people are talented then hybe would help me too”
@@AUGHHHHHBBG BTS aren't known for being great vocalists, they're more acknowledged as dancers and rappers so it fits the case.
@@AUGHHHHHBBGbts are known for their rap, songwriting, self produced songs and dance, only jungkook is known for his vocals (jin too but his visuals overshadow his vocals), taehyung is known for his deep voice and visuals too not really his singing. BTS was never a vocal focused group so it makes sense for hybe to not care much abt vocals as much as dance and rap
In the documentary, Kazuha mentioned that she hoped to improve by continuing, but it only gets harder. I think she means that just as she starts to get comfortable, the concept changes, forcing her to learn something new instead of building on what she's already working on. This goes for the whole group-they need more consistent concepts to really develop their skills. They also need their own vocal coaches, as the company’s aren’t helping, and the two members with decent voices are actually getting worse. Lastly, they really need a break; I can’t recall them having any time off since their debut, except when they were sick.
All those girls wanted to be trainee. They wanted to train but debuted fast and are expected to improve faster than the light.
They are expected to do what other idols have done including groups like IVE with Leeseos and wonyoungs singing and even dancing, same with aespa for stage presence and dance which was tbf due to their choreos. If it was just during performmaces fine because their performances are not suitable for dancing, but its also just the encores@fearnot_jeans
@@anisaafsar4528well that happened after both of those groups went through the hate trains lesserafim is going through right now so let’s see what happens next, if nothing else another girl group will get the same hate train next year
I really wish they pulled an ive and just took a long ass break from any minor promotions or activities for year/year and half to just steady their skills and calm down after their hate train. It’s what they need to improve at this point but hybe seems to money hungry and desperate (esp with the war with mhj) to give them the training they were already rushed out of getting once
@@anisaafsar4528not to mention it also took those groups YEARS to improve slowly, but le serra is expected to improve in months, even with an objectively worse starting point skill wise compared to ive or aespa
That vocal training clip was peculiar. First, the coach might have had Sakura stand and adjust her posture. Singing in a sitting position slightly hunched over inhibits your diapgram and breath control. Also, there was no keyboard to run scales and warm up her voice (fla fla ne-ee-ee-ee-ee). If that is the extent of the vocal coaching, I can see why there's limited improvement. There's techniques she can be taught to help with not only breath control, but pitch, stamina, projection, moving from chest to head voice, etc.
Oh you went into DETAILLL…
Don’t be shy, go ask for ur job at hybe and save out girl
I wish I could! I feel so bad for her. I'm not the greatest singer, but I had some decent coaching. Confidence starts with knowing you're prepared and practiced in different scenarios. Just knitpicking parts of a song with a performer and hoping for the best won't cut it.
AMEN TO THAT
@@feelalittlepressurebut like everyone keep mentioning too is hybe and source music have an issue with not letting singers sing in their vocal range.
Recent example of this is with illit. When we disco suited a lot of the girls well vocally. Especially Moka who got criticism for not being able to sing which clearly wasn’t the issue for her.
Hybe do what a lot of jpop companies do. They have the high voice situation when they make vocals more high for people who vocals are lower (if u get what I’m saying)
@AUGHHHHHBBG Absolutely. Hybe/Source often shoehorn these higher register vocals into certain concepts with very little wiggle room for the natural ranges of their performers. That can cause long-term injuries. But they don't seem to priorize these real concerns. Quite frustrating.
I feel like they need to address more of her vocal health than her vocal abilities, she looks in pain when she sings, and yes that is probably partly due to her fear of singing, but she genuinely looks like singing is painful for her, even in the clip of her crying the first thing she does after she sings is touches her throat almost to soothe it. We know that generally K-pop idols don’t have the best technique and that can lead to vocal damage, but Sakura has been singing out of her range and with poor technique for ten plus years, she’s got to have vocal damage and that needs to be addressed. She needs a hiatus for multiple reasons but that should be a big reason for it, to 1. figure out what’s wrong and 2. To hopefully mitigate the damage caused by it. I feel like she’s needs to start from square one to not just build back up her confidence but to also relearn how to sing without damaging her health (mentally and physically)
THISSSS.
The issue is the team around her don’t realize this and simply don’t care if they do know. They want her to force her vocals to change and that’s not how stuff works
Absolutely. YUJU is a stellar vocalist and even she wrecked her voice in her time with gfriend and had to start over with basic vocal training.
Bro that's what I've been saying for sooo long. People say she should be getting better cuz of her many years in the industry, but the truth is she has been without any semblance of technique for a decade and now her voice is basically broken. She needs to build it back from the ground up. And unfortunately Hybe is the worst company for that
Exactly dude. She even speaks in a shaky voice.
@@mala4222 didn't she always, though?
i think atp she should just go and look for a proper vocal coach outside her company herself because hybe has a history of hiring either really bad vocal coaches or none at all .. so it's really no wonder hybe idols get flamed for their weak vocals all the damn time
she should, but i don't think she knows. i feel like she just keeps blaming herself because she's doing so much worse compared to everyone else in the team and in the company. in a way, she's being gaslit to believe that she's the problem.
She probably too lazy to do that. After all she has been an idol for over 10 years and still no improvement. The best option is that Sakura gets a new job.
I feel like she sounds better in izone/akb48. Idk what hype did to her
@@SamEricLlortragebait
@@matthew_983 Those songs just fit her natural tone better.
Hybe making the documentary showcasing the girls struggle like they aren't the primary reason for all of the damage was truly... something
Oh? Well how about all the kpop stans who dog-piled on LSF just because they could, under the guise of 'constructive criticism'? So many of them blame the company, but no one wants to acknowledge the actual haters who don't care about Sakura improving. For them, it's all funsies just to bring her down and destroy her.
@@Emgee78 Would you rather Sakura continue to damage her voice by using incorrect vocal technique and constantly straining? I do not support the hate train against the girls but if you’re going to blame the public more than Hybe for what’s going on, you clearly don’t have Sakura’s best interest at heart either.
@@pixcainelet’s not lie yes there are people who genuinely want sakura’s voice to get better but there’s also a ton of people just using this as an excuse to hate on her
This reminded me of Seungmin from Stray Kids; he always dedicated himself a lot to singing, but he didn’t improve that much for a few years. He wasn’t terrible like Sakura, but he was aware that he could and should get better. I think he realized that the training at JYPE wasn’t enough, so he sought out a vocal coach on his own. From that point on, his improvement was quick and noticeable, and fans were always commenting on it. Shortly after, Lee Know also sought the same coach, and we’re seeing his progress day by day. I think Sakura should do the same; you can't rely on Hybe’s coach-it's clear she’s not helping with the improvement. She needs to seek help elsewhere, or she’ll stay stagnant, receiving all the hate due to the incompetent company that can’t even choose a good vocal coach.
Oh, he now has the same vocal coach as Baekhyun, right? (Or perhaps I mistook him for another idol?)
And wow, maybe that's why Lee Know has improved so much lately and why he has gotten so much comfortable with singing. Props to him for taking up lessons. It clearly bore fruit.
i’m so proud of lee know. he went from being a mediocre vocalist to being on lee mujin service. that’s amazing. jype needs better vocal coaches.
@@thewaitisogreYg and jyp have bad thecniques, jyp is airy and yg is nasal, and you can clearly see is re inforce by the company, like a signature ... However i notice yhat the nmixx girls had great vocal thecnique , then someone said that one of the members was coaching them ans you can tell 😅
Is like how soyeon gave vocal techniques To the girls ans help shuhua sing better, shd was mediocre as Sakura and now she sings a little 😂, at least she hold notes and doesnt strain
To put into a more relatable context:
This is when you know you aren’t good at math, the teacher offers 0 good support, even when you ask for help, and say that the reason why you can’t do the tests well is because you need confidence. Its incredibly frustrating, and now compound that with having your parents and family constantly berate you for not being able to do maths properly and you can see how this can spiral
Edit: Reading your replies, I totally agree she should defo at this point get external help cause srsly HYBE ain’t doing much. Just an additional perspective on why she may not have gotten it earlier:
- Pre IZ*One, she seemed to have no issue as a Jpop Idol. During IZ*One she seemed pretty content and there was no intense backlash against her vocals
- During Lesserafim initial promotions, they seemed to be praised constantly for talent, hence she may have felt that she was competant enough. It was mainly the Easy era that everything went crashing down.
- She may have not gotten help because the staff at Hybe was telling her that the only issue she has was lack of confidence, not lack of skill. Crappy advice = Crappy Actions.
- The reason why she chose to be an Idol, even though she seemingly has bad vocals is that she may not have even known it to be as big of a problem till AFTER becoming an idol. As a Jpop idol, she was thriving if I rememeber correctly so she was completely fine and happy. This is like you doing a job that required minimal maths and you doing good at that level, then being upgraded to a role that required a lot more math.
Again, in the end, I 100% agree she should defo get help from a competent source (*cough* not Hybe)
Wait, why was this me in math, lol. 😭
It will spiral if YOU let it spiral. I remember a classmate of mine who is not really good at math, they are not really getting support to some of the teachers so what did they do? They asked some of my other classmates to teach them. You are not getting help from people you expect help from? Ask someone else. You won't really have confidence if you are not getting the help that you need. At the end of the day, it is on YOU if you just don't improve.
And mind you, this is not like math that is being forced for you to learn, she chose this path and I am pretty sure she knows everything that comes with it, fame, fortune and especially the pressure to perform well. It's not like this is her rookie year on her first group. If it is too much for her (which I doubt she doesn't expect), she can quit.
It is easy (pun not intended) to say (or show in a documentary) that you are trying to improve but improvement will only show if you are actually working on it.
but if you are not the best at math, you probably don’t dream of becoming a mathematician at the end of the day (?)
The difference between the Le Sserafim members and students is that the students usually don't have the resources to secure the proper tutors/coaches to help them learn and improve. Sakura has money and plenty of information about and proximity to proper, competent instructors available to her. So many idols who are really dedicated to vocal improvement hire proper coaches on their own rather look for their employer to do it. Considering how long Sakura has been in this game, and how long this problem has dogged her career, I am lost as to why she has not yet done this for herself.
this is great I do think it is different though if you're like that with math and have chosen a career in math
at this point if hybe doesn’t want to invest in a proper vocal coach, then she might have to take it into her own hands. bare minimum there are teachers on youtube where you can get AT LEAST the basics on warmups, how to not strain, hell how to even find your range. yes, a physical teacher would be better, but when you’re starting w nothing, maybe some videos can help her pick up some building blocks.
THIS
She should have done it years ago when she first got hate.
I hope she knows some vocal trainers as understanding and articulate as Soyeon from (G)I-DLE, Shuhua was pretty tone-deaf and could not pronounce Korean correctly, look at her singing now is a much bigger improvement.
What teachers are there on TH-cam? Could you recommend some?
@@hezhuoyuan3574 I only Karolina who often do reaction videos to Kpop girl groups
Fire that vocal coach Sakura should be doing lip trills and scales in her range before taking on the harder parts
i seriously dont get this kpop industry logic of "saving your voice" before a performance. voice is just like a muscle, it gets stronger with consistent training. you see lots of idols working out before performances or photoshoots in order for their muscles to really pop during it, same should go to voice warmings. they're Singers, for fuck's sake
@@northrnstarvocal rest is a real thing and it’s a valid practice but i agree there should be more extensive training
@@K82849Its a thing, but just like with physical exercises, rest comes _after_ the singing. Makes no sense to rest something that's already rested and has not been used yet.
unfortunately i think the state of vocal training in east asia as a whole is like this. the so called coaches just focus on superficial things like touching up stylistic choices instead of addressing the root problem that a student simply cannot and should not sing a certain song at this point.
@@sadhourstwentyfourseven9578 exactly my point like, sure, you need rest days when you're working out, but in order to have rest days you need to Train first. if they go to pre-recordings early in the morning, that more than anything is the time for warming up since they weren't using up their voices for Hours.
I saw the part with the vocal coach and literally stood in front of my screen like this "😦"
I've been taking vocal lessons for 10 years, and at some point I went through a traumatic experience and had to quit singing for a year (didn't even sing at home for fun) after I had reached an incredibly significant milestone with my technique and confidence.
When I got back into it I took a great hit to my confidence, I felt incometent for not being able to do the things I had worked so hard to do. I would sing something and even if it didnt sound bad it felt off, and I broke down during one lesson.
What did my vocal coach do? She sat me down, let me calm down, and told me "We're gonna go back to basics". And we spent our next few sessions doing nothing but excersises to rebuild my skills and boost my confidence, and when we got to singing again I felt so much better knowing that if something felt off I would know how to fix it.
That's what Sakura needs, not "Why did you lose your confidence?" but "Let's build some confidence". I really hope she can find a coach that can do that.
1. I’m so happy for you girl ❤❤
2. Exactlyyy. The vocal coaches at source coddle feelings too much and won’t pinpoint the problem which is gonna be her downfall till they fix it
God I love how you guys just GET IT😍
Do you know Jang JinYoung, SM vocal coach who appeares often in Idols Show?
He appeared in a showed called Sister Slam Dunk where the participants are half non singer, and the singers are Minzy 2ne1, Somi, and ex-opera singer who wrecked her voices.
He pointed their flaws, and help them to improve their singing. All of them, even the ex-opera singer who was so afraid and scared, he kept pushed her to do basics and build up her confidence.
Somi lost a lot of confidence (this was when she was still in JYP), back to basics and help her confidence.
Minzy learned a lot from him. He guide her to be able to singing high note.
This man is SM vocal coache who teach wendy overcome her vocal nodule.
Thats why when I watched the documentary, i was like, what the fuck did that vocal coach teach? 🫥
@@chickennerd2085 wait I remembered that too. And yes you're so right. Almost all of the sm trainers are like that because Lee Soo man got his hands on the best ones (whether dance, vocal etc ) of his country. Also he himself has some competence regarding these things so he has some set standard he wants his idols to reach or to be at.
In comparison to that jyp is just.....you know it if well if you have watched slam dunk sisters and many of his group's studio album making behind the scenes videos. He's a terrible teacher and has horrible work ethics plus lack emotional intelligence horrendously. Enough jyp bashing. So what I'm saying is that he forces his idols to reach his own standards and personal aesthetics (so his idols can stand out according to him) but his own art and performance is so goofy that his own idols make fun of him. Lmao ifykyk.
So he's in the way of his own idols but nmixx was made to go through a different route. So did stray kids because stray kids were just grinding on their own and jyp let them bc he wanted to try the bang sihyuk (his friend's) methods.
Bang sihyuk is a great producer but actual stuff like vocals and dance is not his forte at all. All he cared about and still cares about is his idols should be synchronized. Neat and clean grand performances. Confidence. All such things appeal to younger audience easily. He's ambitious about his business so he makes his staff and idols work in that direction where there's lot of money. No ethics. Stupidities. And much more grand things with hollow insides. For example Le sserafim's big performances and crazy dance routines but mediocre techniques in dances and vocals are so prominent if one looks closely. Atleast older and mature audiences can't deny the flaws despite their strength being big enjoyable end of the year/award show performances. That's what we all look forward to the most for hybe groups because they eat every time. Still the flaws with big confidence is very much prominent and cringe in some cases. It's a bit in bearable sometimes imo. So this is just my observation of these big companies and their training styles since that's what we are talking about.
@@aintnootherfanisn't the biggest problem in kpop industry that idols and their employers do not know how to take criticism and take it to help themselves improve as an artist and business respectively. There's a pattern of their behavior that makes their actual haters more hostile.
I think that unfortunately Sakura has been put in situations where she hasn't been given the knowledge of how to protect her voice and also isn't given the opportunity to. Daisy (Momoland) was on tiktok and said that she was often told to be quiet before performing when she was doing vocal warmups, so she didn't distract anyone or was given no warning about singing live. This would damage anyone's voice. I think it must be hard to be able to sing ok for your role, and then suddenly you're in a new group and your voice isn't able to do what it used to, and you don't know why. It's a shame that Hybe and many other companies are so negligent towards vocal training and protecting their artists.
But the real question is, was Sakura ever a capable singer? Or are we projecting our wishes on her? Was there ever a moment where she proved herself vocally in a live setting? Without the vocals being altered to death.
Exactly the poor girl has damaged her voice to the point where it looks painful for her to sing, it must suck to even try to progress when in doing so you’re making the damage worse, it’s like if an athlete broke their leg but keeps trying to win, to problem of that is that they’re 1. Keeping the injury from healing and 2. It will make them worse in the long run no matter how much they try to get better
Your not born with a good voice you get trained to get a good voice
@@melila928 she could be. She's had moments since debut where she has shown potential. She's always been unstable and inconsistent but if given things in her range and the proper support, she could be decent. She'll never be a Taeyeon, Wendy, or Solar but she could be a Yuna, smaller range with a pretty tone.
you're actually thinking of denise of secret number, not daisy
My impression is that the vocal trainer is trying to distance herself from the problem by dismissing it as a confidence issue. That way, the trainer can't be blamed for not providing proper technical training support.
When Hybe/Source Music contracted with Sakura, they should have analyzed her skillset meticulously and formulated a viable plan to make a more competent singer out of her. Sakura came to Kpop scene at an older age (around 20) than any other Kpop artist from Japan and her fist gig was with Iz*one which was a project group that wasn't motivated to commit to her long-term development. Therefore, she had never had proper Kpop training prior to joining Le Seraphim in 2022 at the age of 24. Knowing all this, it is ridiculously negligent of the trainer to dismiss Sakura's lack of vocal skills as a confidence issue. If they continue to dodge the real problem - which is lack of amount of vocal training - I don't see how Sakura can regain confidence to perform on a live stage.
I like Sakura as a person and as an entertainment industry personality. She is nice, smart, funny, sharp-witted and has a pleasant vibe. But since Le Seraphim was formed as replacement for G-Friend, my favorite ex-girl group, I take pleasure in saying that Hybe/Source Music brought this problem upon themselves.
P.S. I have and will keep rooting for Sakura and the team. I'm sure they will get over this and continue to thrive.
Totally agree!!!😁
I could never find the words on the direct issue with the vocal coach and u just did for me so thank you soooo much cus EXACTLY THISSSS
@@AUGHHHHHBBG couldn't have said it better myself. like, confidence in performance most importantly comes from knowing you have the skillset and tools to pull off what you're about to do and that you practiced to get there ready, similarly how athletes train before a competition. her coach sounds amateur, too, which only makes it worse.
****Le Sserafim
sakura is in this industry since years ago. men, if you don't have the vocal trained, the technique and the confidence by now, it is not this particular vocal coach, it is hybe who hired this 1d10t instead of so many other talented singers who can be all rounded artist.
hybe seriously needs to give le sserafim a hiatus and hire them a better trainer. during their hiatus, they can better their skills and their mental health with this break. public opinion of them will also soften up
Would be the smart decision. Right?
But instead Hype put out a documentary, that again mentions their bad singing skills, and bringing this all up again.
And then they will have a comeback. Were all people will look out for their vocals.
And now we should hope, that they come back with better skills to have this surprise attack. Like baaabam we can sing.
Or, which I think is worser, they used the docu for pity and changed nothing and the girls will get more hate.
Will be interesting to see
I empathise with the girls on that they are victims of the current state of kpop.
Kpop companies want instant success asap. They dont want to develop their idols, take their time and grow slowly and surely.
And so they take shortcuts. And compared to gen 2 and the rise of social media. If u have money and connects thats all u need rn. Talent doesnt matter much anymore.
doesn't help that le sserafim kinda debuted popular already, in spite of the garam situation, for having two of the most popular members of the arguably most popular 4th gen ggroup (izone). and their comebacks, in spite of the hate trains and criticism, still made huge numbers on the charts and sales. so yeah, safe to say hybe/soumu probably felt comfortable in not really honing their skills if the fans and the public (for the most part) give them money regardless.
They should hire a new vocal coach
When I saw that clip I saw everything, but vocal coaching. That vocal coach behaved more like a psychologist. No wonder Le Sserafim never improve their vocals. Yunjin should seriously sneak to Aespa when they have vocal classes.
@@vixxexo6855the first thing to be a singer is u should can be playing some instrument atleast to know some notes. But that teacher not even help her
It's not the vocal coach, it's the company. Even the only one who could sing before kcw, has backslid. Even though I don't think she was great but she could have improved/become great. The other girls were not trained. I feel the worst for kkura, ec, and zuha. Like they just need to turn the camera off, feel safe for a second and actually be coached. I good coach can get you to sing in your natural voice.
The other two, I just don't think they have the drive after finding insta fame with p48, izone and lsf. Like chaewon is from infinites woollim. Artists need to have grit abs drive imo. Why try when you've sold more than almost every gg ever with the help of studio magic. I really used to blame ive (who I now think are great) for the state of kpop but it was hybe all along 🤪 I think you only have to look at jimin, txt, illit, lsf live encores to know what the problem is. Why are pledis/ador groups, not managed by bh, OK singers? Svt f9 and nj are all decent but the bang sihyuk groups are verging on tone deaf. Stop using Sakura as a scapegoat. I'm not even a fan but that girl is not trained in the Korean style.
*singer
@@driopxz3387 that teacher knew how to sing, but too f4t to be on sakura's place.
I really feel your deep frustration in showing that scene with the vocal trainer. “Hey, why’d you lose confidence? Just do it like this! See? Easy! Just believe in yourself.” UGH
It’s literally those memes that are like “how to draw a dog: step 1 - draw two circles, step 2: draw the rest of the dog.”
She doesn’t have the training to get from A to B but they’re happy to just throw her into the deep end and then blame her for her lack of confidence when she starts to drown. It’s so frustrating.
their next cb is going to be very crucial for them, so for their sake, i hope they have improved even a little just enough for them to sing their encores properly. i've been feeling bad for them but if nothing is going to change then... i fear they have to carry that "tone deaf" group tag for a while.
tbh i fear it's never gonna leave them... they got criticized for their encore stages ever since debut and even then there hasn't been any major changes made in their training.
Honestly, it's really up to Eunchae and, especially, Sakura. Majority of the vocal criticism lies with those two. So, they're going to be under the most scrutiny for their upcoming live performance. If they both show, at least, _some_ improvements and stability, I think that they'll get praised for actually improving and genuinely putting in the work to improve.
Kazuha has potential to show noticeable improvement, as she carries a decent sounding vocal tone. She also has the inherent drive to push herself to improve, as we've seen with her dancing abilities. She's already become the 2nd best dancer in LSF next to Chaewon.
I understand that self efficacy is important, but people acting like that will get rid of every problem here is disrespectful to singing as an art form. Singing involves so many different skills, and you usually need to develop them with that knowledge and intention. It's the same way as confidence will not help me magically draw the perfect hand or write a well structured plot. You need to understand what you are doing to do it well in most cases. While I am disgusted by the Le Sserafim hate train, I need people to be realistic on both sides of the issue. Great video!
I agree, absolutely! Thank you!😁
I think there is also a lot of misunderstanding regarding Sakura's time in HKT48.
Yes, she has been an idol for 10 years. However, people do not join HKT48 because their life dream is to be an idol. It's more considered a job to get so that you can later do what you actually want to do. People who join 48 groups will say I want to be a doctor, or I want to be an actor, or I want to be a teacher. Maybe they also thought that being an idol looks fun and cute. 48 groups are meant to be stepping stones hence why graduations are so celebrated. Not a lot of people actually desire to pursue being an idol sincerely but are rather idols so that they can pursue their actual dream.
Chances are that Sakura was similar and only later decided to pursue being an idol more sincerely. And even if she was like this from the ground up, she would be more of an oddity in this regard inside her group. That culture explains why she did not pursue greater training whilst in HKT48. It's a fundamental difference in what an idol is in 48 groups vs Kpop groups that kpop fans just do not know or cannot understand.
Afterwards she was put into izone where she focused on dancing (due to that being important as izone focused heavily on synchronization) and now she is in lesserafim with a company that does not desire to support her either. This is also fully ignoring her clear vocal damage. People point out that her vocals are shaky as if she doesn't sound insanely shaky just speaking.
THIS! So many people like to use “shes been an idol for a decade and still cant sing lmao” but they dont take time to research what her past idol life in Japan and Iz*one was even like. I may be biased, as Iz*One is/ was literally my ult group along with twice, so it really hurts me to see people hating on my girls 😭 however its also good to be realistic. Some stans are just delusional and will say things like “Sakura sounds amazing!” and “at least she sings better than you” and thats why stans have a bad reputation. Like its one thing to defend your favorite idols/ groups from jobless haters, but its another to just lie and pretend that everything is fine… that type of thinking will prevent idols from improving, which will just make them get hated even more
Sorry I didn’t mean to write this much, sometimes I just get really passionate and have a lot to say 😅
And still. Produce48 was so many years ago. This is NOT Sakura hate.
But by now, you'd think she'd wanna invest in a real vocal coach, even if she has to hire one herself. Even if she can only see said coach once every two weeks due to their schedule. If I ever get to the point where I'm *crying* due to low confidence over a skill I know I'm lacking in, I would get help for it.
It is sad. There are many videos of HKT48 that is singing so sweet and perfect. But the trouble is that she was not singing, only moving her month. She had few line at Iz*one´s musics, and I was always sad that she sang at some music only 2 lines. No a new group and she still singing few line again... And one of the blames: Lack of confidence! So you are a singer and you can not sing... Disappoint...
Imagine your math tutor asking you "Why aren't you confident? You can do it if you find it within yourself" like girl... what??? No, teach me how to understand this problem and fix it.
I want nothing more, DESPERATELY, for her to get some lessons and come out SINGING at these fools and shut them up!!! I'm not expecting Wendy, but she has the potential to be good!!
what i don't get is if SM artists seek out exterior vocal help even thought their company is known to give good vocal training, why on earth does she not look for other vocal couches outside hybe? she needs it
She never did. In AKB48, they trained individually, and she lacks compared to her peers but got center cause she was pretty. In Izone, she had no lines, and in Lesserafim, the line she gets are too hard for her.
I feel like she’s trying to make as much money as possible to retire early or go into acting or streaming. But Idk if hybe even allows their artist to seek exterior coaching.
@@SpudhutCXrepwonhee got her own vocal and dance coach
Although not an excuse, remember how she debut in le sserafim? Doesnt hybe that persuaded her to join? Just my guess but she is not someone who really really want to be an idol anymore if not because of this. How do i put this, she is different than regular trainee who dream someday debuted in idol group. Especially how popular le sserafim got upon debuting
Exactly. I remember Baekhyun saying he did. If someone as good as Baekhyun can hire an outside coach, so can Sakura.
I'm wondering if Hybe doesn't let them or something. Bc fr.
It’s so clear the vocal coach is too nice.
I get caring about the feeling but the vocal coach isn’t pinpointing where Sakura need to change an it’s clear from her performances and how the vocal coach was acting during the documentary.
gentle teachers exist, dont act like some asian parent from 20th century
@@kkura09709How am I acting like an Asian parent-
Also yes their is gentle teachers. I’m not saying be rude you do need to work with the person ur helping but there is gentle teachers and teachers who aren’t teaching..
These vocal coaches aren’t teaching well. They are coddling feelings too much and not addressing what the problem is and trying to figure out how to solve it which is their job. Sakura gonna stay not having confidence till they tell her exactly what she is struggling with so atleast she knows and even if they don’t teach her how to solve it she can know where to start herself. She is lost and the team around her is buggin
@@AUGHHHHHBBG the wording about her being “too nice” made me think you wanted her to treat sakura otherwise like some people around here, and again you’re talking about “coddling feelings” , responding to someone breaking down in front of you is not bad. the teacher being nice and caring about her feelings is not bad, its the way she seems to have structured these lessons
@@kkura09709that’s not what I’m complaining about and I’m sorry if it sounds like that. If she is crying u should comfort that’s a good thing. But esp what I mean by coddling feelings is for example her comment saying Sakura is giving 120%… Sakura is fighting hard but stuff like that her simply brushing it off as a confidence issue will not help Sakura
@@AUGHHHHHBBG one scene doesn’t show all that happens there, there’s a huge context neither of us are a part of, i agree with most of the things the channel says, and the last part of your reply too
Hybe usually likes taking SM's employees right? Please just take one of their vocal coaches... please!
😀 this is wilddd
This 😭
Exactly 😂😂
Well this is the problem. Most of the SM Vocals coach was an ex idol of First and 2nd gen SM. They have too much loyalty to SM so we doubt that they want to be hired by other company to spill the secret formula of SM.
@chairmanrosethewisegentleman good vocal coaches are easy to find, but it's also about people clearly scouting the talent in which hybe doesn't do. They don't pick people who have underlying talent or passion. Sakura has always been in the industry but doesn't show any passion for improvement unlike (for a basic example) some like Leeseo and even wonyoung who took clear lip syncing criticism, kept silent and improved with I am.
All the comments in this video should be in the original one! So hybe could see the problem themselves
This channel and the comment section are much better than many other TH-camrs (I am looking at you Sultry Film) and really gave constructive feedback to not only Sakura, the other members but also the techniques, constant concept change and vocal trainer. I hope Kkura gains her confidence and seeks a personal vocal trainer rather than just rely on HYBE’s vocal trainer who can focus and guide her to improve.
Sultry film pisses me off so bad
This is the consequence of always getting by and not addressing your shortcomings RIGHT FROM THE START. Sakura has been getting by in the industry. I remember the moment she got an A during PD48, I ask my self "why?". Her fans was so focused on her charisma, THAT she's famous in japan, she knows this idol life, all this stuff, but I know it's not gonna last long for the long run. The way she was edited in the show like she's improving vocally when its so obvious they were cutting the clips and manipulsting the edit. She has always been weak vocally but since she's always been getting by, the issue hasn't been addressed, now she's facing the consequences.
Watching all of the stuff with Le Sserafim just kinda hurts. I actually love them, and I've loved most of the music they've released which is kinda rare for me. I see how hard they work, and one aspect I love to see is how much joy appears to be in each performance they put on. If it's not genuine joy to be together and perform, then I have even MORE respect and admiration for it because that's hard to fake. They have strengths, and they clearly want to do well, so they have the drive to make their goals a reality. But somewhere along the way, their team and their company is deeply failing them and squandering all of that effort, drive, and motivation. And that's the worst thing of all in my eyes, seeing them struggle while they're doing everything in their power to fix the problems but aren't being given better tools and methods to actually fix things.
Sakura and shuhua are literally at the bottom vocally in kpop yet i truly think they can improve specially sakura they just have to take alot and alot of singing lessons
Real. Shuhua got real bully for her vocals too
The thing is that Shuhua has been improving. Slightly but still.
Shuhua sounds much better now. She’s improved
Wow thr thing is that soyeon help shuhua and nos she can sing a little, nos she can hold notes ... Before she was as bad as Sakura... So yes, shuhua at least so better, have you listen to her in the universities festival fancams, she was able to sing, good, nothing amazing but at least not mediocre or our of tune
Guys I think we’re overlooking the possibility (the likelihood imo) that the vocal lesson was fake or at least partially scripted to paint Sakura in a better light… That’s why they don’t do any actual vocal training in the clip-because the objective was to do PR damage control, not to depict real life. She deserves our empathy of course, but I wouldn’t draw strong conclusions about the ineptitude of the vocal coach (as many in the comments are doing) based on footage that is no doubt highly curated to depict the group in a sympathetic way.
Some idols actually hire a vocal coach outside. The girls should have done this instead of relying solely on the company.
What makes me sad is that as a result, people think *all* idols from Japan cant sing, rap and/or dance.
As a fan of multiple JPOP groups - boy and girl groups alike - that just doesn't feel true to me. Maybe some groups, but not all of them. It's the generalization for me :/ (also yes by JPOP groups I mean those who debuted in Japan in a Japanese company, not KPOP's Japanese groups to clarify that, although the ones I know who were debuted by Korean companies also aren't bad and often are amazing too)
Japanese groups, like HTK48 and HTB48, do not focus on singing and the like. The JPOP idol track is more about fan interaction and personality development. You want further evidence of this? Go rewatch the evaluation episodes of Produce 48. Almost all of the Japanese idols were given low scores. More than a few had their abilities questions, ie "How did you debut when you can't dance?" Sakura had next to no training for singing while in HTK/AKB48, as a result it gave her a poor foundation to build on. The only thing a JPOP and KPOP idol have in common is the word 'Idol', and even then quite a few Japanese artists go out of their way to avoid the label. Saying Sakura has "Been and idol for 10 years" is technically correct, but assuming that means she's had singing lessons for all of those ten years is not the case.
@@andrewpelham1269 I know. But thats what I mean with the JPOP groups I like, they aren't like that. But to each their own, 10 years is still a lot to barely anything imo (or so it feels at least)
It's only AKB48 who can't sing that's it
@andrewpelham1269 they do. Each member train individually, which shows that some of them are really lazy or just don't want to or it's too hard.
NGL....a lot of kpop stans are very ignorant of jpop.....and it's something. I low-key blame produce48😅.
You're the only creator who have both empathy and constructive criticism down to the T.
The poor thing is being gaslit into thinking that should already know how to sing well. How will she have the confidence to ask elsewhere for help if her company is telling her that it’s just a her problem and not a total lack of training problem?
It’s sad that hybe only persuaded her to join them because they need to debut a group with someone popular to compete against Aespa & Ive. There are many trainees who are competent and ready to debut for their talents, but sadly they couldn’t, because of their lack of popularity or ‘visuals’
Yeah they (HYBE) chose to debut mostly non-vocalists to form the team and this is the result. They should have known the team wasn’t balanced even before adding Eunchae, another non-vocalist, into the group. Their two singers don’t even have enough main vocalist materials
I've been thinking about this for a long time, even before the hate train. But I think Sakura has some sort of health problem in her vocal chords or throat, that can be fixed only with vocal chord surgery. Even her speaking voice is very unstable and shaky and it sounds chronically strained
She undergone multiple impasive nose jobs, jaw and chin, was that affected her voice?
@@Zlkcll I think this can affect the voice projection, but I think it's her vocal chords that's the real problem
Sakura seems so sweet and gentle. It's painful to see her sadly struggling ❤
If I were Sakura, I would demand a better vocal coach. There is no way I would be in the industry for over 8 yrs and be sounding like that on stage
Personally? I dont really think so unless she herself decides to seek out a vocal coach on her own.
She's been doing this for basically as long as Eunchae has been alive and would rather spend her free time knitting (or something similar, I forgot), which fair enough, but she has also made comments similar to how 'idols dont really need to know how to sing' (or something similar) which doesn't apply to KPOP or JPOP - for most groups but especially those with longevity - so... yeah she can have her opinion but as a former fan, Im more disappointed than sad nowadays. I wish the 5 of them all the best still.
Im disgusted with Soumu and Hybe, and i also felt a bit of annoyed towards Sakura.
She has all the money and connection to seek outside help to improve her skill.
Any artist who deeply cared about their arts and skill would always find a way to improve on their own.
Baekhyun, Chen, Xiumin, and A guy from Stray Kids seek vocal coach outside company. Lee Hi when she was still in YG, and Winner Kang Seungyoon seek vocal coach outside YG.
I felt bad, but also annoyed? Shes been crying since i knew her about the same thing. Whinning and crying here and there. Then fix it girl.
She had met a lot of powerful vocalists in kpop industry. Go find Taeyeon ask her: does she have recommendation on vocal teacher? Or Yunjin who is a colleague of Winter Aespa, ask her.
Man, if I had that kind of connection, I would directly DM Taeyeon or Wendy asking Vocal Coach recommendation.
@@chickennerd2085 I mean, thats what I mean. I feel like she has other priorities and thats fine, but there's no reason to make statements like she has when there are idols out there who improve on a yearly basis, who want to improve and so on...
Either way, Im also disappointed so Im focusing on other groups now.
@@glaciemdracoIm also disappointed so much. I used to be their fans. Im a patience fans. I would always hope my fave' improvement. No idols is perfect in their craft when they debuted (except TVXQ), but little to zero improvement on their vocals even years in the industry? At least be decent.
What made me disappointed so much was her long ass essay after coachella saying "this is our best performance."
Hello? Did i just get gaslight? It turned me off so quickly.
Now, I focused more on other groups and even I knew and watched this documentary bc her fans kept shitting on other groups with her crying clips and it became viral.
@@chickennerd2085 Yeah, their best isn't horrible but its also kinda ... ? ... coming from a big company and all. But maybe thats just me.
Hopefully their company has actual plans for them... someday :D
@@chickennerd2085 Sakura made a post about everyone having high standards and Chaewon basically showing the middle finger in her story just shows that they don't care at all.
love your videos and you’re 100% correct. She doesn’t have good trainers and that’s a huge part of the problem. The fact that they start by just singing a song is terrible. In my years of musical and vocal training, never do you just start out of nowhere without warming up first. 10-15 minutes to help find the healthy technique is so crucial.
Basic classical training techniques could do wonders for her voice. There’s so much tension, and as someone who’s biggest problems with vocals has been tensions and constriction, I know that if she could just get some basic training it would help so much. She needs to relax her larynx and not compress it as much, that’ll help her find that nice pocket where she can then explore her chest range. From there it’s all a ladder to success, I just want someone to give her the proper techniques that’ll help her.
Did they hire an actress to play a vocal coach for the documentary?
Not impossible...
We tend to forget one thing as fans. The documentary of Lesserafim proved again that not only haters caused the girlies to be in this state.
SOME Fearnots kept comparing them with their colleagues like IVE, NMIXX... etc. calling them untalented and bullying other fandoms which means every other fandom were actually waiting for the things they said like "Yunjin clears all your Vocalist" or "Sakura is good for someone coming out from Japan/J-Pop" and once all of that bragging wasn't real, it backfired.
It's true that in 2022, Lesserafim were part of the few girl grouo that sang live, but their vocals never were on point, but Fearnots and hybe kept pushing them.
Yunjin's words saying she wanted to change the industry were twisted by her own fans and even her talent (she's not an opera singer). They kept saying she would or she is when, in fact, she just began. How can she when her "family" is not letting her the time to and are already shoving her name in every people's mouth. Like the : "At Lesserafim can sing live".
It clearly came back to them cause every other girl group actually sang live better than them : Ive at Lollapalooza, for example. And Lesserafim played the victim cards with apology and middle finger on stories cause they know how dumb fans are and it's not first time that everytime Lesserafim are in a controversy, fans defend them and five days later, Lesserafim use the same made up excuse to base on and say "do not judge" when their actions are more than simply problematic.
They just don't care. And they learned how to not care. Hybe is to blame even more. Those girls are/were not good mentally even though Hybe and their fans claim that they have a therapist and psychologist on site. They used their pain as content for pity even though it looks like those girls are showing signs of imposter syndrome feeling ungrateful and unworthy.
Hybe is acting all nice by saying "you can stop if you're tired, don't push yourself" when in fact, those girls spent years with Hybe toxic management so it's not in their genes anymore to sop when they are tired. Those girls starved themselves too under Hybe's management. They clearly were made to not say no or not or feel like a disappointment.
Hybe debuted those girls only with 4 months of training as a group, when usually groups take 2 years to train and figure out what sound is best for them. It's good we share a light on haters cause some of them really want to end Lesserafim, but at the end of the day, Hybe and Fearnots have more influence on those girls than anyone else. They are the one who make think Eunchae will be ugly in a few years, not the contrary. The documentary was a media play, and the excuse they had was the previous documentary they made for antifragile.
But where was the red line ? What did we learn about the documentary? Where were Kazuha and Chaewon in the documentary? What makes them different from other idols ? Cause we literally learned nothing from it, and Lesserafim will be the first victim and first one to suffer the hate train.
Well said. Especially that point about hybe actively profiting off their misfortune... As was the case with this documentary. At this point, it almost feels like they wait until things get too bad till they take action ; just for the buzz that comes with it. I'm not even a fearnot but it still rubs me the wrong way. It's awful
@@Abrigat REAL.
Oh you ate this
@fearnot_jeans you basically mentioned everything I had grievances with regarding HYBE and Le Sserafim.
ALSO - mostly unrelated, but thank you SO much for bringing Ive's Lollapalooza performance to my attention. I didn't even know they were invited until I read your (long) comment, and I had a really fun time watching the whole thing just now.
6:09
felt that so hard, and i'm not a vocalist (brass player here, euphonium specifically.) i appreciate that you're mentioning the constant criticism deflection that's done by fearnots, because overhyping sakura's skills won't help her either. as a music major, that vocal teacher is frustrating. she needs to be fired, and hopefully sakura can get help from someone who fits and has a good reputation.
My bestfriend started taking vocal lessons a year and a half ago, completely from scratch. When I tell you she improved would be an understatement. She has developed: skill, personal style and *range*, from the literal basics. And do you know how she did it? She practiced every day, phrase by phrase, sometimes even word for word for *hours*, so that she could go directly to the source of the problem before she could even attempt a whole verse.
I think that this is what Sakura needs, a good vocal coach, that teaches her good vocal habits *from scratch*.
I just think of all the ppl that can sing that don't debut when i hear idols that can't sing
And that's fair, but you can also still follow and support those that didn't make it to debut and hope they'll find success elsewhere. Voice alone won't always secure a spot. Let's not forget Jyp rejected Yuju (Gfriend main vocalist) because her singing wasn't enough for him in particular, but later she found a company that wanted her.
@@watashi5700 where can I support them if they don't debut? 🤔 That's the point of debuting
Yeah because for company Singing ability is not the first requirement.
Its all business,
Then you can support strong vocal groups like NMIXX, BROWN EYED GIRLS, KIOF, and sooooooo many other groups that are very good at singing. How does Sakura effect talented singers from not making it into the group? She doesn’t. They can debut and you guys can CHOOSE to support them. But you guys only complain about bad singing then don’t support lesser known groups who are very good singers.
@@carlmark4977 Not Sakura. It just makes you think of all the other trainees that can sing
I feel like the whole confidence thing is just a way for the "vocal coaches" to make people think they're actually helping sakura instead of giving actual technical advice
People can still be good singers with low confidence. Look at DK for example, he is quite hard on himself and that's part of the reason why he still hasn't gone onto LMJ though there are a decent amount of idols who have appeared on the show with lesser vocal capabilities than him.
What makes you a halfway decent or even good singer is a good coach who can ACTUALLY GIVE YOU REAL ADVICE and hours upon hours of practice. Sakura can for sure improve her vocals significantly by finding an external coach
oh my god THANK YOU for this video.
I've been saying the ENTIRE TIME that the entire problem in Sakura's lost of confidence and backlash is because Hybe does not help a single bit. They need to give her REAL vocal classes, not just a "aw you can do it", she needs to be trained in singing !
I'd say every Hybe idols basically needs to have a vocal teacher as well but that's another discussion.
It might be just my opinion but to me an idol is someone with talent in singing AND performance.
Everyone in their right mind should agree to this too. The difference between singers, dancers, and idols is that idols are supposed to be able to handle both. Idols are basically singers who trained to be able to perform singing and dancing at the same time, and rapping for the most dedicated ones.
I'm literally 13 years old and I could do a better job training someone at Sakura's skill level than that vocal coach. When I first saw that clip I assumed that the woman was a producer or something teaching Sakura her parts. I imagine she must be confused too, wondering why she's not improving with these "vocal lessons" and blaming it on herself.
No you can't. Let's not pretend here for internet points.
@@Emgee78 I... could, actually. I've been self-training for a couple years now and I've helped out a couple of my friends. But in any case, I should reiterate: I don't know what other training techniques that vocal coach has, but based on that clip, it seems very unhelpful and I could at least do a minimum that she isn't doing.
I feel bad for Sakura. People have been just brutal towards her, and I completely understand how that could make her terrified to sing. If I were in her shoes, I might feel the same way. And saying “Just be confident!” is magical thinking. Competence leads to confidence. And she’s not getting the tools she needs to be competent. Which is leading to a massive case of imposter syndrome, which is just making things worse.
Companies don’t care about vocal competence, because they’ve got the crutches of pitch correction for studio vocals, and backing tracks for “live” performances. They have no incentive to do better for their idols in regard to their vocals.
I have seen so much unfair hate in this comment section I am going to let this information here:
Sakura debuted in Japan at 13 years old after around 3 months of training.
The japanese idol training and skillset is NOTHING alike to the korean one. Japanese idols are supposed to be personable, to make fans happy and remember their names, to be funny. They are NOT supposed to be particularly great singer or to know how to dance well. Sakuras voice in AKB 48 was way stronger than it is now and 7 years of her career were spent in Japan. We are talking about a girl who worked from the ages 13-20 in her home country without much voice or dance lessons. In 2018 sakura was in the TV show produce 48 with a lot of other Japanese idols and they were ridiculed because the idea koreans have of idols (and the training) simply didn't match the one in japan. They mocked their dancing and their singing and a lot of other things. In three months she made great improvement to her dancing to the point she could actually kind of dance, you can compare ger intial and her final performance. She became a better dancer in IZONE and in Lesserafim she isn't even considered a bad kpop idol dancer and is pretty ok within her dance heavy group. She also learned korean. This is all while working non-stop in double country promotions. She has composition credits, she has movie, tv and web series credits and even a 4 year long radio show and a makeup brand. She stopped Japanese idol promotions in 27 june 2021 (she had continued all the time after Izone diabandment) and on may 2 2022 she debuted. The girl has a total of 18 months time exclusively for training under her belt. That was it, 3 of them being trained japanese style. That means that from the age of 13 the girls has basically been doing ONE thing: WORKING. For contrast eunchae trained 2 whole years and she is 17 right now. Kazuha is 21 and trained between 5-6months with lesserafim but she also was a professional ballet dancer that had studied not just in japan, but in Moscow, in the UK and in the Dutch National Ballet academy before even beginning her training with Lesserafim.
Sakura actually sang better before going to train to Korea, she was a lot more plesant and stable. You guys are bullying someone who did child labour from the age of 13 and has not have even the same training time as her team mates, one of them almost 10 years her junior. The girl has worked and worked and worked. Criticism doesn't need to mean outright cruelty.
Thank you for bringing all of this to our attention!
@@aintnootherfan It wasn't a criticism towards you I think your videos are usually very graceful and balanced it was towards all the hate people are leaving down here. These people are legitimately insane saying she is lazy. A 26 year old with 13 years of working experience is insane. It shouldn't be a thing and this people are ignoring the fact that for most of that "experience" time she was a working child. It makes me angry and at the same time it breaks my heart seeing people be so unfair. I am not even a lesserafim fan but I know her from IZONE and it genuinely feels like slander.
What you said about jpop isn’t really true though. It may be the case for ak48 and those sort of groups, but jpop has tons of talented artists. For proof, choose a random anime opening and listen the live performance. More than likely, it’s going to be decent at least. Also, think of artists like yaosabi or Lisa. They’re definitely not weak.
@@kpopnimation I didn't say jpop in general (I love anime too, the openings are always epic). I said japanese idol training specifically and that's a comment specifically about groups like AKB48 not the japanese music industry as a whole. Is like if I had said "Most western boy groups can't dance because that isn't their main appeal" and you responded saying "But we have boy DANCE crews" like of course man, japan has great music but japanese idols are more heavy on fan meetings and live entertainment.
@@kpopnimation for the most part, idol ≠ singer. What idol sell is their popularity, personality, fan service. Especially in big group, voice is not a priority, thats a fact as long as there is few who can fill that role.
But some people will callin them out obviously.
And Sakura choosen as member honestly not because she is perfect idol who can sing, dance and all that, she was popular.
There are video of somi gets help on how to sing confidently with better skill from SM vocal coach in show unnie slam dunk and I hope this happen for them,
somi improved by applying the technique and gain her confidence, even for that show but it gives people a better perspective or the idea that
"somi can't sing" and "somi didn't work hard" isn't actually true.
"Hopefully, she will even learn how to enjoy singing." This part is important too. When the way is long and hard, you'd better enjoy it. I remember the words of babymonster dance coach LEEJUNG LEE: "Rather than to think 'I want them to be good dancers', my mentality was 'I want them to love dancing, a lot' ". Hope Le sserafim will get this kind of coach for vocals.
Looking back at hybe report it seems they focused more on reporting other groups than improving their own groups
Honestly thats just how it is in kpop that idols never really improve vocally. 99% of idols are pretty much the same as they were at debut even after years of being active. And if there are predebut materials available, you can tell that many have the same skillset they had before they even became trainees. And it applies to companies like SM entertainment as well. (Many sm vocalists improved but afaik not under sm) Im not really sure why is it like that since idols apparently take vocal lessons ever since they start training.
This might be a hot take, but if Sakura didn't have her popularity from HKT/AKB and went through the Korean trainee cycle, she would of never debuted. Potential gets you in the door, but hard work and determination gets you across the finish line. I like her, but to me it always seemed like she coasted by because of her fanbase.
Confidence, talent, dedication, these are all things an idol should never have to rely on 100%. It says a lot about Sakura as a person to have gotten this far without any help or guidance from the people around her who SHOULD be helping her.
Not to start a fan war, but I see parallels between Le Sserafim and Stray Kids that make me really mad at Source.
In Stray Kids’ survival series, JYP (person) noted how their songs were composed in an octave typically reserved for female vocalists as it was on the higher end of the male vocal range. Similar to have Fearnots are always justifying Le Sserafim’s poor vocal performances on none of the songs allegedly being in a key suitable for their ranges. What’d the Stray Kids members do? They practiced. Woojin and Han were especially working hard as they had to hit the high notes in “Hellevator”. We watched them struggling to hit the notes to the point where their voices were hoarse.
What else? Hyunjin and Felix were having issues with their annunciation. Hyunjin wasn’t singing clearly. So, he practiced with a pencil in his mouth to get his mouth movements to be wider and allow him to pronounce the words better and to project. Felix was struggling because his Korean speaking skills were pretty mediocre at the time (not like I’m one to talk since mine are practically nonexistent).
That happened throughout the series. Within spans of 2-3 days, they’d work so hard to be capable of performing after having fixed these issues.
What’d Sakura do? Twice we saw “She’s trying her best. She’s giving it her all!” And where are the results to show for it? Actually, all of the members get criticized for their vocals with Chaewon usually getting a pass as her pop vocals are serviceable and Yunjin’s classical vocals are great too (even if they don’t always translate well to Le Sserafim’s music).
While HYBE may not be known for their vocal prowess (outside of Seventeen, Fromis_9, and GFriend), they have more than enough resources to scout out some of the best vocal coaches in the industry. Not a bunch of baby sitters that’ll just comfort the idols when they do bad.
If you look at SKZ’s vocal coach, she was extremely strict with Woojin and Seungmin. She knew what they were capable of. If they weren’t doing well, they were going to hear about it.
Does Sakura deserve anywhere near the level of hatred and buIIying that she’s received? Absolutely not. But she needs to be given proper instruction and discipline or she’ll never improve and will continue to be ridiculed.
And not only that, but after debuting, Seungmin was aware that he could still improve further, so he went on his own to find a vocal coach outside the company (I imagine he realized that he had reached the limit of what JYPE's vocal coach could help with, and he didn’t want to stay stagnant, knowing that he could and should improve). After seeing how much he improved with the new coach, Lee Know also sought him out. Today, we can see how both have improved tremendously, even though they were never bad vocalists. I think Sakura shouldn’t stay stuck with Hybe’s coach, or she’ll remain at this level, thinking that what she lacks is confidence on her part and empathy from the public. Meanwhile, Hybe and Source Music profit while she takes all the hate.
@@Amanda-mv4qr THIIIS!!! Seungmin, Lee Know, and I.N have improved so much over the last few years! JYPE is limited in what they can provide to their idols in terms of vocal training. Looking at Woojin, he improved so much since he left the company. Once Seungmin took things into his own hands, he also so great strides in his vocal journey.
Someone needs to get Sakura in touch with a vocal coach outside of HYBE because they’re as useful as a middle aged mom selling “healing crystals”.
I’m not gonna bully her but the experience in industry gave her wealth at least ? Couldn’t she hire a personal vocal coach?
that's what I've been saying! she was in arguably the most popular girl group of 4th gen (izone) and le sserafim is still Very popular and profitable. hell, she might have enough money to hire a whole team.
@@northrnstar yep
To be fair we also don’t know the contracts they are under cus kpop companies like managing everything including stuff like that.
I thought this too but she might not be allowed to or just never had the idea to cus I don’t think she even know her vocal coach sucks
@@AUGHHHHHBBG ?? Why would it not be allowed tho-
She can do it once she’s free
@@Danielle_bunny contracts
I do undetstand Sakura pain. I have severe trigger for my finacial part. I have tried hard but fail many time in the past. It stem from my dyfuctional narcisistic family. My dad keep bullied me since I was young that I will never be able to support myself. All life situation and relationship take me to mental breakdown. It took me years to be able to feel like normal person who can take normal job. It too painful to even think about back then. I hope Sakura can get through life and heal her inner wound.
6:48 debatable, if she's rational, then it should be rationale enough to say that it's her job to properly sing or the least "be average". I remember there was one idol being asked about practicing 12 hours a day while she rationally and logically answered "It's my job" without a single excuse. "a lot" of talentless people become so talented after practicing days and nights like crazy, they're also crying and depressed behind the curtain without any "documentary" but they keep going not knowing if they will make it or not. I feel like the documentary is just an "excuse" to say that they're struggling and to make people empathize yet still, every idol or every artists, they also struggle in their own way, some even worse that have never been captured on camera.
it's safe to say it's her job to sing "average".
Its Ningning 😊
After seeing that vocal coach I really believe that KKura should invest in outside training and find someone that will genuinely help her to improve and get her to a place where she is more relaxed and comfortable when she sings. Other idols in the past had to go outside because the company workers playing games!
Dont always blame the company see her ability too!! If she wants to improve she can hire her OWN teacher she is a MILLIONAIRE its not like she cant.
the worst thing is that I noticed most of the kpop vocal coaches tend to be like that, they dont work to develop their voices but they take their singing for granted acting like that is “their tone” or “their vocal color” and just try to make sure they dont go off key on stage
This might come as an unpopular opinion, but I feel once an idol starts making the bag, he or she needs to improve himself or herself on their own. The reason why Baekhyun, D.O , Chen , Taeyeon, Wendy, D.K, Seungkwan, Taeil, amongst other vocalists are competent with their singing is because the stepped out of their comfort zone.Sometimes, the company can do just little for you, you need to break out of that shell in order to give off your best and I strongly feel that’s where Sakura is lacking
That's untrue. The reason why a lot of these vocalists are good is because they sought actual training prior to joining companies and were specifically recruited for their exceptional vocal abilities. They had the capabilities and positive reinforcement to enjoy their craft. They had the foundations to work on it over the years even with the limited help from kpop companies, and many of the ones you listed are also veteran idols who have a lot of freedom to live alone and seek external coaches
Bro comparing to every main vocalist that known for their vocal...
I just find it crazy how Hybe literally set these girls up for failure. People have been coming for them since debut and nothing has changed.
Hybe should have seen the early criticism and taken action instead of letting it get to this point. The criticism has turned into bullying and these talented ladies are being dragged through the mud and losing confidence simply because they lack the necessary training that a company as big as Hybe could easily provide.
It's hard stanning the girls right now and I can only imagine how they feel being the most hated gg this year. I hope that they can take a break to refine their skills so that they can come back swinging.
Off topic I didn't expect Siyeon's Entrancing in the background, much appreciated lol
Well, I don't know but she's been an idol for more than 10 years, and in the previous documentary about the group, she also said that she was scared of singing, one year had passed and she's saying the same thing. And she has time to crochet her performing outfits but doesn't have time to practice her singing skills?
also she makes more money than us will ever make with years of working, but she's still relying on the company's coach who's not exactly helping her with technicalities when she CAN afford a vocal coach who will help her better identify her problems and fix them. come on now, sakura.
Ever heard of a hobby you do outside of work? She can't and shouldn't be working 24/7 and she seems to be crocheting before she had to perform and in her free time
you want her to replace something that she likes with something she’s scared of? she’s said she wants to like singing, her goal is not different from what you want it to be, please be kind.
@@kkura09709 well then instead of being an idol, she should choose other jobs that really suit her. And if she really wants to be an idol then she should live up to the expectation of an idol. As someone said above, she has all the money to hire a different vocal coach to help her improve
The op in the video also said that singing is the thing that differentiate idols with back dancers, if an idol can't sing then what is the different between them and the back dancer? Back dancers dance very well and their stage prensence is no joke too y'know?
Vocal coach is a charlatan. A random vocal coach from the streets in the Philippines could do better 😂
I appreciate the fact that you do these videos in English even though it's not your first language. Love from NC, USA! ❤
1st the hate that she get is just disgusting, yes she need vocal training but how can expect her improving with this joke, and hybe stans should rather get angry on hybe😮
i notice that before with BTS back on the day but Hybe (formaly big hit) dont care on the technique or even about the specifity of their idols
V once revealed that he use to be scoled because he don't sing high, i think that why they let Jimin damaged his voice for 10 years because he sung high
i my opinion Hybe just teach their idol in to sing a specific standard way of singing regardeless of their specifity of their own voices and call it a training and like you said they don't even teach the excercises that a beganer like Sakura need.
i'm not a singer or vocal coach but i think the 1st think do a kind of diagnosis, and explain to her why she struggle help her to understand her voice and teach how use it correctly with excercises to master the bases of a good vocal technique.
here i feel like it's like you put someone how don't even know to swim in the big pool and ask him to swim and called it training.
i'm not sure that the lady is even a real vocal coach, i feel they just ask on of their producer to do the job since many people complaining about the lack of vocal of the girls
honestly my advice for the girls is if they can afford it to hire a competente vocal coach with their own money
i think at this point, sakura definitely has some kind of vocal damage because her voice is shaky and uneven even when she speaks. she (and the rest of the group) needs an actual vocal trainer instead of whoever it is hybe assigned them bc it clearly isn't working. chaewon and yunjin are regressing while the other the other three are stagnant.
if not that, then i'm afraid that if the girls really want to improve, they just need to hire a trainer themselves since hybe doesn't seem keen on helping.
I said the vocal teacher being questionable on twitter and I got attacked by hybe stans 💀💀💀
Dude Sakura is arguably the richest member of the group, she can literally afford to hire a vocal teacher to improve her vocal skills... But what did she do during her 10-year career as an idol?
SHE DOES NEED MORE CONFIDENCE. But she needs to find her own voice first. Get a vocal coach who had to learn how to sing for themselves, not just someone that knows music. She can improve if she uses her own voice!
This is really frustrating. It shows how little a company like HYBE cares about their idols, tbh. They certainly have the resources to get actual vocal coaches, but instead they choose to showcase Sakura's insecurities, blame her for them, and monetise them, when they could help her grow out of them through proper training. It's infuriating.
Why it looks like hybe trying to sell their suffering???
tbh they've been doing this for a while, even before the whole encore stage/coachella fiasco.
If you’re passionate about singing you don’t need to wait for a company to give you a fruit you just search for it. I’m so proud that my bias has been doing it since debuted he respects his jobs and fans he still go to vocal sessions even though he’s in 10 years in this industry and ofc he’s amazing singer never disappointed his fans
I think Hybe blaming her lack of confidence takes the responsibility off of their lack of proper training. That’s why they refuse to admit it’s a technique problem, otherwise it would be their fault
hit the nail on the head. they got so confident about the sales and streams, it would immensely hurt their egos to admit they have mediocre idols in spite of that
HYBE/Source Music doesn't help them with this nonsense documentary, honestly. They literally threw them under the bus, again! Also, it's worth mention, when I learn to play piano, my teacher didn't hug me like a baby when I messed up something, he hit me with a freakin' wand. I'm not saying Idols should be hit with something, but babying them never gonna help. Especially BIG4 groups. BIG4 agencies, mostly HYBE and YG don't want to care about vocals, because they think being mainstream is enough already. Kpop fandom overall is MUCH BIGGER than any fandom of a group, so they will be judged more than a small agency group, and that's why they should focus on vocals and their main positions FIRST, than visuals and other stuff.
Sakura knows she's bad, and she's in this industry for 13 YEARS, so I can't just blame the company, it's her fault as well! Sure, in Jpop vocals are not important, but she's a Kpop Idols for many years. Maybe it's just me, but she earns A LOT of money, so she has enough to hire a freakin' vocal trainer by herself. She doesn't need to wait for her lazy company.
Exactly. Esp cus this women is saying “I feel like your giving 120%”
Like these vocal coaches are a mess mess mess mess mess
@@AUGHHHHHBBG no wonder basically all of their newer groups (i.e the ones created after hybe bought companies) struggle with vocal technique. jake from enhypen said once that they're basically left with their own devices in terms of training.
@@northrnstar are we shocked tho? Like people been saying recently hybe is the SHEIN of kpop. They are fast fashion and pop out many groups without putting in effort to said group. Even for the mini companies like belift, source, etc are getting fed a new group every year now so they might be working on group but then it’s like “Source music have a new group called (enter random name)”
People don’t get the time to relax with hybe and groups and it’s ridiculous. Popping out more kpop groups then Kylie Jenner announcing brand launches
I dont know YG has produce artists that cant carry a tune and are not confident??
@@emilyann4504 Babymosnter is basically their first vocal groups. 2NE1 was good too, but they were more like a Hip Hop group.
It's been 10 years. Probably not.
HYBE should fire every one of LeSserafim's vocal coaches and replace them with one's that actually TEACH.
hybe and source dgaf abt their artists receiving hate. they're reallly quick in taking down anything that can damage the reputation of their board members n ceo but they will let their artists suffer all the harm in the world. u can tell by how they treat garam, now newjeans, how they never provide good vocal training for lsf despite them getting hated for it. this is why fearnots should NOT stan that company!!! stop defending that company and hold them accountable!!!
I think sakura has been too reliant on auto tune and back tracking. When she got exposed that she can’t sing. It was hard to hide behind the auto tune anymore. People wanted to hear her vocals but she’s not able to deliver. She can’t even lip-sync atp cause people will call her out even more. So her only option is to train hard and prove people she is capable. Best of luck.
Obviously hybe only cares about money.
Sakura during iz*one era has been improving constantly little by little. like idk why hybe won't focus on the basic needs of their idols. They have so much money. they'd gain more by investing properly.
Hybe did something, they humiliate her with their actions and that documentary...
Someone needs to have a word with sakura and explain everyone has a voice some are strong some are uniquely the person's voice with less range but it doesn't stop anyone from being a idol and expressing yourself . People expect alot for pop artists to sing and dance live. Not all singers have insane range of vocals I don't understand why people are new to this. she has to have some vocal Therapy where she has a nice relaxing relationship with a vocal coach with lots of experience who understands her back ground and story if her vocals improve or not I just want her to be confident she is one of the most intriguing and curious K-pop artists I get the feeling she will disappear from the limelight one day I hope not she is very entertaining and interesting can't help but route for her ✌️ Kura gang. Also I really respect you for your opinions on this video because I agree. Hybe sort this out 🤼
if hybe does not give sakura the resources she needs to improve, shes going to think she doesnt need to. her lack of growth is mostly not even her fault, because a vocal coach is meant to know best or at least better than her, so their advice is probably absolute to her. but unfortunately those coaches at hybe have not been giving her the advice she needs.
To say that confidence is a magical thing is an unfortunate phrasing. Confidence is the first (not the only) thing to work on: confidence is the belief that you CAN do something. So without confidence, you don't learn, practice or even show up! My 15 years of doing coaching has proven me than confidence is always the foundation to effective work. First confidence, then work on skills.
People is seems to forget that having a great vocal is also a gift, even if kkura's training for another years I doubt that she will ever improve, but I hope at least she can do basic, that was how bad her voice is, but well... Didn't blame her, it's company's fault for continue debuting idol who clearly can't sing
Obviously she wants to do better but Hybe isnt providing the tools for her to even do the bare minimum. Even if her natural vocal range, tone quality or innate musicality cant be helped with training, at this point the company should have at least taught her the basics of singing, vocal technique, breath control etc, just so she can get her lines out without her voice trembling. She's a victim of Hybe imo
Is she capable of improvement? Yes, of course. Will she actually do it? Most likely no. She’s been hearing these criticisms since Produce 48 and hasn’t improved her vocals at all by now. And the documentary was filmed before Coachella, so she went there knowing her weaknesses and still had the nerve to say her performance there was the best she’d ever given after fans fairly critiqued her vocals and asked the company to invest more in her training. So it’s not just on the company, she herself hasn’t taken any individual steps to improve her vocals and won’t address it honestly when it’s brought up, so I don’t see her attempting to change at this point in her career
Yes, and it's sad to watch...
she needs to take a break from activites. go calm herself, get confidence, and trained herself more bfr continuing promoting with the grp. she needs that. she cant continue working in that condition knowing singing was her weakest point rn. she in a situation where she actually can get all sorts of help if she wanted to. go find yourself the best vocal teacher
To me, Sakura just lacks basic natural talent in singing. She’s missing something foundational and that’s why she doesn’t seem to get better after so many years in the industry. I think what she’s lacking is something you have to be born with and I don’t think it’s something you can be trained to do. Even me with no vocal warmups can nail her parts in songs quite easily and I’m not even trained to sing. I’m willing to be proven wrong but I just think that’s her basic problem. And that’s why the conversation about her is redundant. She can’t really sing and she’s unable to improve because of that. So there’s really nothing to be done (or maybe she can meet up with SM’s vocal trainers.)
Probably doesn't have the type of musicality to understand nuances in different styles and vocal techniques. She doesn't seem to notice pitch in that one clip where she's confused.
It’s either she is naturally tone-deaf or she absolutely has 0 understanding of the technicalities. Like girl doesn’t know how to project her voice (she does what is called swallowing your own voice), not to sing in flat notes, rhythm and other basic things. A decent vocal coach would have told her not to swallow her own voice and be confident to start with. Without projecting your own voice you are absolutely doing nothing.
I guess sakura is just one of those people who are just not cut out for singing. Additionally, she also has to unlearn the bad techniques she have picked up for the past 10 years in her career. By the time, she will get the most basic down, she'll probably on her kpop retirement age. So it's a hopeless case for me.
The vocal coach seems more like a motivational speaker than an actual vocal coach to me.
Exactly. It's so hard to unlearn bad habits when it comes to singing than dancing.
this is the difference between a “vocal coach” and a “voice teacher.” more people need to be aware of the difference. sakura needs a teacher, not a coach.
Sakura is not naturally gifted as a singer. But everyone can be taught to at least execute simple vocal parts (the ones she's usually given anyway).
Tbh if u got into a group without being able to sing or dance well, i dont think the company picked you for ability. As a company why invest in something they deem a lost cause or has little to no benefit for them financially. If Sakura sings a bit better it won't change the amount of money they receive. Sakura isnt here for her ability to sing or dance. She got in because of her popularity that she rightfully deserves and worked hard for since she was a child. In the real world a company isn't always going to train you, you have to learn and train independently on your own time. That is life.