Hybe - especially Bighit - value style over technique. All of their current main vocalists, save for the members from Fromis_9 and Seventeen, are vocalists who are encouraged to prioritize style over technique. It's a problem with the conglomerate in general in terms of the way that they train and produce their groups. Edit: The replies are a mess. Read at your own discretion.
And you can hear the limits of that practice when they have to sing live😡 Jungkook is actually pretty decent likely cause he has better techniques. Hybe is just lazy and doesn't want to hire more skilled singers as idols for whatever reasons
@@bebebongBaebaeJungkook is really good, but he prioritizes style over technique. But he has an incredible stamina, also an eye catching voice (ear catching idk HAHAHA). I believe that he'll improve his voice, he's young too.
@@xshxxoshe has the better technique in comparison to all the vocalists mentioned here, and by far in his own group, and I consider it is not a bad idea to choose style over technique in songs as you have to please the audience not trained them😂😂.
I want JYP to have whoever trained NMIXX vocalists train Lia. She has a beautiful voice and it’s being wasted because she doesn’t have solid technique. There is no reason why the weakest vocalist in nmixx (bae) should fall into the same vocal tier as the main vocalist of Itzy when these groups are under the same company. I know Lia probably can’t become a Lily or Haewon level vocalist but she can improve
@@spideysargent2474 The channel owner (Ain't No Other Fan) doesn't believe in tiers. But even if we go with tiers, Bae is higher than Lia. Bae is Low Weak to Average (D-) and Lia is High Weak (E+). Lia regressed a long time ago.
what makes me sad about the JYP vocal training, after watching their survival shows showing vocal training (such as the nizi projects, a2k), they mostly teach them how to use their voices to fit a song effectively rather than continuously improving their vocal health and quality. i feel like the greatest improvement in JYP vocals has to be Seungmin (and in turn I.N and Lee Know) with respect to the fact that Seungmin chose to go to a vocal coach outside of the company after getting the title of main vocalist, and I.N & Lee Know followed suit as the vocal line of Stray Kids. It's quite telling to know that even idols in the company acknowledge that the successful company is lacking in the vocal aspect of their training resources... I hope Lia (and other vocalists in the company!) can bloom and find the proper spaces to improve further to best showcase her talent that we all know is there!
I completely agree with this I always have some level of respect for idols who want to get better at their craft. It's sad that wanting to be a better vocalist is getting rarer these days(* cough * sakura * cough *), the only idols i can think of currently are taemin, moonbyul and as you said seungmin who are improving, asw as the nmixx girlies and the exo golden trio even though they're already at comparatively high level
Yeah seungmin went to the same vocal coach of the one and only byun baekhyun that’s is a great step for him his cover of D.O that’s okay him and I.N impressed me as an exol
@@k0k0m0n i also think what sets nmixx apart vocally, especially as a jyp group, is lily's role as main vocal. other than her amazing voice, her attention to detail and vocal performance that nmixx has brought up in different shows! they have said that lily is sensitive to poor vocal technique and she reacts negatively (said in a cute way) to her members when someone is off-pitch, on the wrong tone, or could do better. i feel like it is such a healthy mindset to have when part of the group aiming to improve everyone's vocal skills alongside her own!
Exactly. I'm so tired of JYP giving Itzy and Twice ridiculously high songs. Like come on, not every pop song has to be at a pitch that only dogs can hear. Give them proper lessons and then let their actual voices determine what kind of songs they should sing.
Lia's example makes me sad. I know people say she has a deep voice which is why she struggles with itzy's discography, and while I agree, 'Red' should be WELL within her range. At this point it's not even her fault, this is on JYP. She seems (and sounds) entirely self-taught, despite having trained at one of the biggest kpop companies, which is insane to me honestly. It's like JYP Ent is just leaving their artists to fend for themselves.
Yeah, and the sad thing is that kpop doesn't seem very fond of female singers with deep voices. Yuqi is the exception though cause they self-produce songs and Soyeon encourages her. Even with Momo, her voice is much deeper but she's made to sing in a higher pitch, it's just sad
Ehh idk, If improving was important to her she could very well get herself a good vocal coach outside of the company like stray kids members are doing recently for example. She surely has the means. So I wouldn't say this is entirely on the company.
@@baoziday5178rven yuqi can do high notes too tho. She can easily sing any other members part without struggling but aside from that, lia’s voice is not deep at all lmao. Yuqi and that one girl from stayc have deep voices
Yes, hybe clearly favours dance over vocals. I've heard enhypen's choreographers praise them for all being amazing dancers, but that comes with a price of less quality vocals unfortunately lol
@@p1kkuma its more like they prioritize style . remember when the producer pries jongwon for his vocal? the producers were praising not technic but color. a good dancer can be a grate vocalist (sm inter the chat)
But do you realize that this review just share outdated way of seeing vocal skills and music? I am a vocal teacher and I can tell you that Heeseung is truly amazing with his style and modernity...
@@p1kkuma Do you realize how stupid you sound? I am a vocal teacher and I can tell you that this reactor just have a very OUTDATED way of evaluating vocals skills and habilities and that enhypen have very good MODERN vocals
Dreamcatcher is one of my ults and I completely agree that Siyeon relies on her vibrato way too much (although her vibrato is really nice!). Also the fact that they are making Taehyun scream will never not make me mad as a die hard Rock, Punk, and Metal fan. The fact that “undercooked” could be used to describe most of these idols will never not make me upset. They deserve better.
Fr Siyeon's voice is probably one of the most powerful vocalists in KPop in terms of voice projection. Whenever she sings, it's loud and you know it's her coming through with the meat of the song. She has so much room to improve and it's tragic that such a talented group isn't properly backed.
There’s no way Siyeon’s technique isn’t hurting her voice. It’s definitely not screaming, but her high notes can sometimes sound awfully nasal, especially in more reason comebacks. Propose is probably a song that showcases her nasalness. And she’s straining really hard. I hope she learns a healthier technique. Her voice is suiting for dreamcatcher songs but it might backfire in the future when her voice is damaged. I hope she goes down a healthier route. I really adore her voice and I’m a huge fan of dreamcatcher as a whole…
@@blackbird251 Siyeon is one of my ults and I really hope that she will get a healthier technique Even Yoohyeon strained recently and it's sad bc they are all talented
@@ikaru5089 I personally feel that she uses it to cover up/smooth out any problems she experiences due to the fact that she isn’t isolating parts of her voice properly, including any nasality she might encounter. However, her vibrato is definitely my favorite part of her voice!
Exceptional vocalists (such as EXO) still attend vocal lessons more than a decade after debut, which truly puts them a cut above those who don’t bother to hone their craft. And it shows.
I love that you put good vocalist but with clear struggles, because a lot of them are quite talented and with proper vocal training could be vocal monsters With that being said, a part 2 would be amazing
@@erwane8532 none of what he said was outdated, and while they are very talented, most of them are dropping the ball for their position as main vocalist.
He used clips that all are from 2 or 3 years ago for Heeseung while he kept working on his flaws, isn't it a toxic and hateful behavior ? And I agree with the statement that it is outdated @@Rese_AA
Like I said in the last belting video, Shinee's Jonghyun is one of the most stylized vocalists in kpop and manages to control his voice however he wants to, but he always had a well developed and well rounded technique to support his constant changing and growth
Yeah I find it the distinction between trained and stylistic vocalists in kpop weird, as though someone with incredible technical ability can’t sing in a stylised way. I think kpop fans just use ‘stylistic vocalist’ to save themselves from admitting their faves aren’t great singers but sound good to them anyway.
@@_dont_mind_methe only good stylistic vocalist beside jonghyun is honestly yerin 15&, yes her hv is very underdeveloped but for a cursive singer her mix is actually very good
@@_dont_mind_me yes. Kpop stans think any good vocalist is automatically basic or boring to justify their favs' lack of fundamental vocal techniques as stylistic or unique voice etc.
agreed!!! partly b/c i selfishly wanna see an analysis of hueningkai’s vocals (since most people just discuss taehyun when it comes to TXT vocally). i’ve always thought HK’s vocals feel slightly more … well-rounded? and less strained than taehyun’s when they sing similar parts (i.e. “loser = lover” chorus or the shawn mendes cover shown in this vid). but also, HK is one of my absolute fave idols & i love his natural tone / vocal color - so i’d love to see an unbiased, well-trained person’s opinion on it, lol *** lol i meant 5SOS, not shawn mendes, my b
@fadegentetalentosa To be fair, shes one of the few idols whos actually taking vocal lessons. And those lessons seem to pay off as she has been improving quite a lot within the last few months
Haechan wasn’t always struggling like this, I think I’ve noticed a bit of vocal decline. Might be due to unhealthy habits or SM overworking this boy to death but his voice has definitely sounded healthier in the past. He can get back there again.
well this person DID use a video form fcking 2018 haechan was literally a child then😭 if you hear his recent vocal work like the recent recording behinds he’s MUCH better than chenle and renjun when it comes to belting, and he sounds open and relaxed and his notes have power and are rounded, whereas the other 2 sound like they’re in pain trying to sing c#5 notes like?!!? It’s WHOLLY unfair to just mention haechan (or mention haechan AT ALL and NOT use any of his RECENT work as “proof” btw🫤🫤) and not mention renjun and chenle when those 2 are so much weaker than haechan💀
@@hyuckAH06Hmm not sure I agree that age is a factor. Yes Haechan was like 18 but D.O.,Baekhyun and Chen from EXO were all in their late teens when they started and sounded phenomenal. I do think that many singers improve as they get older and gain more experience... If they continue to make their vocals a priority and take care of them. I've only heard a slight decline in Haechan's vocals live and I honestly think it's because he (and Mark) are being worked to death. SM is not giving 127 and Dream enough rest and space between comebacks. Haechan has had several health issues and he's not able to have enough time off to address that and get healthier. I think his vocals will improve when he can properly take care of his health. The body can only be pushed so far
Tbh, one of the reasons why I'm a bit upset that he smokes. nctzens always say he 'outsing kpop anyway' are delusional. Bro literally already has issues from overworking himself. Him smoking is making it worse for him in a long run with the rate sm's slave schedule.
@@hyuckAH06Renjun and Chenle catching strays for no reason 😂 Nah but I saw NCT Dream tour last year and heard the vocal decline with my own ears. I thought Renjun sounded way healthier, open and more relaxed, and Haechan was struggling to belt. Renjun has improved a lot! Chenle has stayed the same but I wouldn’t say he sounds in pain. I think Haechan was just overworked at that time so I don’t blame him for not sounding his best but it’s completely valid to mention his slight vocal decline. He’s not above criticism.
@@addy8078 😂😂😂and you want me to take your criticism seriously then? Honey there’s a shit ton of videos online of renjun cracking his voice dozens of time on tour😭😭 “he sounds relaxed and has improved a lot” meanwhile renjun can’t hold a note without cracking 💀is that your definition of sounding healthier, open and more relaxed? if Haechan isn’t above criticism neither are they! And you don’t have to LIE, or just admit that you have a weird hate boner for Haechan 🤷♀️renjun and Chenle don’t have NEARLY the same amount of high notes and big belty and challenging vocal parts so of course they won’t struggle as much! and even then haechan’s voice was often the only one not completely drowned out by the backing track and was overpowering it meanwhile renjun was struggling to be heard through it😭yeah I’ve heard them live too… lmfaooo just straight out LYING about renjun and chenle now are we? anyone with a good pair of ears and basic knowledge of vocal technique can HEAR the struggle in renjun’s voice! I rarely hear him be able to sing without his voice shaking; chenle too is extremely weak BOTH are technically weaker vocalists than haechan
if taehyun won't change his technique, i'm really afraid he'll develop nodules or even worse, might damage his vocal chords to the point that he loses his range :((
The sample videos for Heeseung are from 2021 and 2022, I think it would be more accurate to evaluate them with videos from more recent times. Because I think Enhypen has improved in general, but that doesn't mean it won't develop further, I just would like to see you evaluate it with more recent clips.
@@K0108-x8y I thought that too, but if jyp employed the staff for vocal training in the first place and they’re doing well with nmixx it just feels like an injustice to itzy by not employing them to work with them/div2
Maybe bc of nimixx's concept? Their music is a little weird, imagine how much more jarring it would sound if they weren't as talented vocally as they are?
Lia had so much potential, if she had had a better vocal coach who appreciated her tone and style, she could have been unstoppable. She can still get there, I believe in her. Even the best singers still take vocal lessons well into their careers, it’s nothing to be ashamed of.
so real, especially after i saw her jazz cover a few years ago when she was a trainee, she didn’t sound really shallow jypent really needs to find vocal coaches fitting to their trainee and idol’s tone and capabilities as well as vocal coaches who can help in different styles
I am so glad Haechan from NCT was included, many people don’t wanna admit it that Haechan actually falls behind in terms of vocal skills in NCT considering he is a main vocalist. It's a fact that he is a far better dancer than he is a vocalist. Edit: The comment section is a war lmao. If you don’t understand singing don't talk about it. Just cuz someone is stylistic doesn’t mean they can't be technical. And yes Haechan is not the worst main vocalist of NCT, but he definitely isn’t as good as people claim him to be. ChenLe, Renjun and Kun don't get that as much praise about their vocals as Haechan does. N before anyone says I am bashing, no I am not. He is my bias in Nct. Also I can't believe ppl still actually don't understand that stability =/= good vocal skills.
He’s ain’t even that bad considering chenle and renjun are RIGHT there (2 main vocals) who are much weaker than him and still don’t support a single note they sing. Also the “he’s my bias” lie is so old like please grow a pair! If you’re openly criticising someone so much at least have e the guys to stand by what you say💀no way can he be your bias if you’re this happy about his being thrown under the bus when there are literally weaker vocalists than him IN nct🥴does it matter if chenle renjun and kun don’t get as much praise? they’re literally very weak, none of them SUPPORT so if anyone deserves this criticism IT’S THEM!!! I’m not lying when say it painful listening to renjun and chenle sing sometimes because the amount they strain with how weak thin and airy their voices are is crazy
Haechan is decent and carries live performance fine. I don't know why people are bashing him in the comments. I wonder if he steps outside his comfort zone more in his Sun and Moon songs.
Compared to Taeil who manages to add a lot of style while not giving up healthy vocal habits, Haechan could do better. However this doesn’t mean he isn’t stable or have a good sense of intonation. He’s just a stylistic vocalist through and through.
I’d love to see a ranking of different 4th gen groups’ (SKZ, TXT, Enhypen, etc) vocal abilities and why… Like, within the groups themselves. Also your opinion on some of the FIRST TAKE performances.
I feel like some of the kpop companies only know how to teach idols to sing high. Cause in some of the covers in this video, and others I’ve seen floating around, idols tend to sing higher and louder than the original song. Before my friend got our friendgroup into Kpop, we used to joke that idols sounded like they were on helium. I must have got used to it cause I don’t think we were far off back then 😂
True, because there is a cult of high notes in Kpop, which is based on a long tradition in Asia to regard unnaturally high voices as more beautiful, refined and artistic, and even in men (see eg Chinese Opera). The way the music is written also emphasises that (note that it is "linear" with decorations rather than full harmonies, even in groups). It's not that they can only sing like that, but it is an aesthetic choice and it really is especially difficult. Whether one likes it or not, it does deserve recognition as a technical achievement. Partly its due to Asian voices being a bit higher on average, but not that high. It does amaze me that even grown men can achieve such falsettos, and so many of them among idols (without being castrati, because they have normal speaking voices).
I agree 100%, almost all of the idols on this list are really inconsistent and often strain the notes out of their comfort zone, most of the time you can see that they are in pain/physically struggling while singing
Funny how Lia is bashed all the time for being a main vocalist meanwhile Taehyun and Haechan are praised for singing their hearts out but they are all more or less same technical wise🙂 I don’t want them to be hated/bashed like Lia but It’s really interesting… P.s: Bold of you to put Haechan here, nctzens are already coming for you lol
The two boys sing with confidence and passion whereas as Lia, especially in the beginning, looked unsure and not confident. Look at the way she was just walking around that stage singing Red. It looked like a sound check than an actual performance. Also, both boys are great dancers and so half of their appreciation/ talent comes from their dance performance whereas Lia is significantly the weakest dancer in Itzy as if she made the group mainly on her vocals that are rather weak. Ps. I don’t think Lia is a bad singer but rather it’s the way she has to sing for Itzy songs.
people pay more attention to female idols in general and they don’t have crazy fans to defend them. the guy from txt is the worst for me, at least lia has a nice tone and sounds incredible in certain songs
While I am always on the lookout for institutionalized misogyny, as a totally untrained listener I do feel like Lia sounds more like she’s struggling than those two boys. What really makes me sad is that it clearly affects her confidence, whereas Haechan and Taehyun seem either unaware of or indifferent to the criticism.
Personal take : I feel like the best way of balancing out between style & technique for all these type of KPOP vocalists (Siyeon, Minnie, Haechan types) would just be mainly showcase style over technique in title track (since the company & composer of music too would want to focus style more which is pretty much the identity of these vocalist) AND showcase technique over style in b-side tracks (since as a listener to any of artist’s works, you would want every tracks to offer something different & new which can be a perfect chance for all these vocalists to step out of their usual zone and show the real vocal improvement there)! Sorry if my explanation can be confusing.
Honestly KPOP companies give vocal lessons in order to make sure their idols sing in a way that they think is more friendly to the Korean audience. It’s one of the reasons why there are so many stylistic vocalists in 4th gen atm.
Like PURPLE kiss with Swan. A lot of PURPLE kiss songs are catered to the stylistic style of Chaein and Swan. Especially Swan. Which is why she gets more lines than Goeun and Chaein actually had the most lines in the last album.
I always felt Siyeon followed the style of the band's vocalist singing. Yes, that band, plays drums, bass, guitar and more. Band vocalist somtimes sing "at will" and are very free, no matter how good their voices are. And you're right, her voice sounded healtier at the begining of her debut (Minx and Dreamcatcher). Dreamcatcher has enough rock and metal material that mimics the band's style which make Siyeon's singing not a problem, but she still has to retrain her voice. She can learn from the way Hayley Williams, Amy Lee, Freddie Mercury, M. Shadows, and Taka sing. They are the vocalist of a band whose singing level has been recognized as exceeding the standards of soloist even though they have to sing with a fairly loud genre.
I get what you are saying, but there are plenty of lead vocalists in rock bands that are vocally trained. Whether it be before joining a band or after and realizing they needed it.
@@mentalmaker03 Yup, that's why i said Siyeon can learn from them (not directly). There so many rock metal vocalist that musically and vocally trained, i just can't list their name one by one 😅
lia is so overhated for everything. her technique definitely needs a lot of work but what i noticed about her voice is she truly shines in slow songs, like falling slowly and her OSTs, her voice was MADE for those. her mid to lower registers are gorgeous and honey-like and her falsettos are so pretty. to me, falling slowly is the BEST song that showcases her voice. lia has one of the most distinct vocal tone in kpop to me
she is great at storytelling. in itzy's music its being greatly diminished because they are doing that thing every member sing for 4 seconds and then next member. when they begin to get longer lines like 12-16 seconds at a time her strength will show. just a random thought - IU's strength is also storytelling. if you put IU in itzy and similarly had her only sing 4 seconds at a time her strength would also be diminished.
11:25 NCT 127 has three main vocalists: Taeil, Doyoung, and Jaehyun. Haechan is a lead vocalist in 127 but a main vocalist in Dream. Edit: Nevermind, looks like my information is outdated. Haechan is a main vocalist in both units. I apologize for the original statement.
@@henolongerneedsme he was? My mistake then. I've been a fan since 2018 but I guess I looked over some news. Stupid of me, I know. I thank you and the others for correcting me.
As expected. Majority on the list is from 4th Gen. The quality of "Main Vocalist" title in 4th Gen is just so underwhelming. They mostly sing with intuition rather than using actual vocal techniques. They sounded more like a sub-vocalist at best.
None of the people in this video sounded like sub vocals. Everyone here are lead vocalists material at least and Siyeon, Heeseung and Haechan are decent for main vocals. While Lia and Taehyun would still be lead vocals in other groups.
@@vixxexo6855 If you think that everyone on the list is lead vocalist material and some of them are decent main vocalists then your standards for these positions are pretty low. Compare them to 2nd and 3rd gen main & lead vocalists or even 4th gen like ATEEZ, Stray Kids, aespa main & lead vocals. The gap in vocal talent & quality is just so wide.
@@zeid9828 They are better then Stray Kids and Ateez lead vocals. Minnie who is the weakest singer her, is still a better singer then I.N, Seonghwa and San. Only Jongho is better then Minnie in Ateez and Seungmin is barely better then Minnie.
@@vixxexo6855Minnie isn’t better than anyone you mentioned besides Seonghwa, she’s VERY inconsistent with her quality on notes and is very sloppy, the others all have consistent strengths and ranges of support unlike her.
when you use some 2 or 3 years old stuff (except bite me) it doesn't make criticism fair. heeseung improved a lot beyond that videos, you could use some of current ones for better analysis at least 🤷♀️
Man once gave an example of a main vocalist singing perfectly on pitch and called it no understanding of pitch. You want actual advice on vocals go check out Tristan Parades, man actually knows what he is talking about and doesn't just talk out of his ass for 20 minutes fooling all the braindead kpop stans who'd believe half baked bullshit.
@@incheonguy it's not toxic to give real advice and critique based on actual knowledge about singing :) as a singer myself, I know these idols would most likely not take it personally since most of the idols from these groups aren't receiving the proper voice lessons they deserve!
@@incheonguy nothing is toxic about constructive criticism. If people don’t receive it, they can’t improve. 👍 also, this channel is helpful for people who like to sing and want a better understanding of vocal techniques.
The way you only used 2-3 year old clips of Heeseung (i don't know if it is intentional, maybe you are not familiar) and the most recent (being more than one year old) being at a concert encore after singing and dancing for 2 hours... maybe you do have points but using these clips prove nothing i wish you did more research before making the claims you did.
No need to improve. Autotune and pitch correction is always there to save the day and delulu fans easily gets fooled with their "heavenly vocals" as usual. 😂
Lol so true. This kinda mixing has skyrocketed in 4th gen songs like txt, enhyphen, ive etc. its either the mixing is too much such that it outstands the actual vocals or the track is louder or at par with the vocals. One of the reasons why I rarely like any 4th gen songs
I somewhat disagree about Siyeon. I wouldn't be surprised if she knew how to sing with proper classical (or closer to Disney/broadway style) technique, she's just choosing to sing in this very stylized manor because they have a rock themed group. Her voice sounds pretty dependable even while dancing, she isn't constantly going flat or cracking, so maybe this is a reasonable technique to achieve the particular sound she's after. If any rock band vocalists have a different take I'd be curious to hear it though.
@user-tu9gz1ru5b I agree that siyeon has a whole range but she needs better technique. The producers are giving her notes that she doesn't know how to reach properly. She can reach them but she needs better technique.
8:57 taehyun is truly much more talented than what others make him to be! he just suffered from the standard too high notes hybe love but he got so comfortable now and especially sounds good within his actual range (I just watched their minisode: TOMORROW behind the scenes recording and it is evident how he approach rock/sounding raspy with less effort now compared to their 0x1=lovesong era)
It's well known that only SM provides consistent in house training for artists and it shows. They have the longest training and artists even continue to develop long after debut. That's why they have artists that continue to be successful for much longer and can keep up with changing styles.
Luna, arguably one of the best vocalists that Kpop has ever seen, was not a vocalist prior to SM training. She was a dancer, but yeah i do agree that a lot of them have had prior training but idols like Jessica, Winter, Seulgi also had no singing experience but became decent vocalists through SM training. Gotta give them credit lol. Btw, i dont stan boy groups in general so idk much about bg members who weren't singers before but turned out as good vocalists through SM training. @@hafizishakhafiz7624
@@gotugosrthis feels very aggressive, but in all fairness he is very obviously not a technical vocalist and prefers intuition so using old or new clips technique is probs gonna be rather similar also taking in consideration the love wins all cover but u dont have to agree 🤷♀️
I was so confused viewing this as the video is only 3 months ago and the clips you showed of Heeseung’s singing, were all in his fist 3-10 months of Enhypen. I was hoping for something more recent to accurately analyze his vocals at least since January 2023, since this video is from March 2024? Please update as you managed to get his one off pitch moment from his debut album
@@bethlarue9054 i’m not no vocal coach but ik he did a love wins all cover and it sounded um.. no comment, but he tried so I think the commentary about him is still correct but not a fan either so what would ik 🤷♀️
@@chennie8811 I completely disagree. Singing love wins all a cappella off the cuff, was pretty amazing and I’d love to see another K-pop artist do it as well as he did. He did not go off pitch, and he sang it in the original key.
@@bethlarue9054 It’s more about I was talking about his voice when he sings in upper ranges, I can feel the struggle and the lack of the support in his voice (not talking about the kpop tiers) from a mile away, it’s obvious he’s not a technical vocalist in any way and goes of by intuition . And i think there are vocalists who did do better such as Liz and the one of the EXO member’s did sorry idk their names well tho if u disagree, thats fine 🤷♀️
Agree to disagree. If you look at him while he is singing, you will see the expressions that he does for effect, but if you listen to him blindly, you will realize he has plenty of support for the high range
When you only using Heeseung’s 1st year as a content to judge his talents while he already 3rd year in the industry, its said a lots about your intention!? you event can used his current photo but not his current works?!
if you criticize idols for their singing you should use more current examples of their singing. heeseungs videos were all from at least 2 years ago and he has improved since then. The same goes for Taehyun and to some degree haechan, too, though I don't follow nct anymore so I don't know how much he improved. I have noticed the same issue with the last video you made about vocalists
thank you for this! every single time i see a video or short discussing or even just mentioning idols' vocals, the comments are just flooded with blinded fans. if you're as big of a fan as you claim to be, you should know that your faves can do better. it's okay to not be the best. it's okay to be bad as long as you recognize it and work on it!
As a consumer I will spend my money on songs that gives pleasure to my ears. I don't know if Enhypen's vocal techniques are good or bad I am not a vocal coach so are 90% kpop listeners. But all I can say is out of all 4th gen groups I find Enhypen's vocal most appealing & kind of addictive. I can loop their songs for the entire day especially the R&b influenced ones and not get bored
Heeseung has improved quite a lot over the years. I am kinda disappointed you used clips of him from almost 2 to 3 years ago. On top of that, all of them are from his debut era except one. So, it's not accurate to judge his vocals based on that. Enhypen did a mini song concert "highway" for their 3rd aniversary which was live mostly. You could have used that instead.
@@sliverhalo9286 when the owner of this vid used old contents which is the artist 1st year in the industry it’s said a lots of his intention and to attract haters too!? they are already in 3rd years they have a lots of contents & improvement!
Yep he clearly did not do his research. He didn’t even have much to say in his section so I don’t understand hate other reason is there to drag Heeseung in this video other than having him in the thumbnail for clout.
This video really illustrates something I was talking about earlier today: Two things that really set earlier gens apart especially 2nd and 3rd gen were a) allowing idols to have specialized positions and play to their strengths instead of pushing the “all rounder” propaganda. b) longer and more rigorous trainee periods so that idols / groups weren’t being served up so half-baked. I don’t know if it’s in a bid to cut costs on idol training or just the competitive demand that comes with every Korean teenager wanting to become an idol, but Kpop companies are so preoccupied with with debuting new groups and making as much money as they can with the bare minimum of investment, that they forget idols actually require training; pre-debut and on an ongoing basis. Longevity means nothing to the companies who are always ready to trade them in for a newer model so they really dgaf if the idols end up destroying their vocal cords with unhealthy technique and it shows! It’s kinda funny though, even though JYPE is such a slouch in this department, I think their sublabel studio J actually houses some of the strongest male vocalists in 4th gen: Jooyeon and Jungsu from Xdinary Heroes. Maybe being a band with instruments and not having to be preoccupied with choreo actually gives them some room to work on developing their voices. Even with Day6 as a 3rd gen example, I’d say Young K is one of the most technically proficient and confident male vocalists in the industry bc he’s constantly improvising and switching up his vocals in creative ways and I’ve never seen it fall flat. That type of confidence lets you know that time and care have gone into cultivating good technique!
you're so right on jyp housing really great vocalists in the 4th gen jooyeon and jungsu also yesss, young k appreciation at the end there. love to see young k being praised
For Heeseung, he was good a even vocalist before debuting and as time passed he improved alot and now is one of the best vocalist.. if you just see recent live medley of enhypen or even his solo lives when he sings you can easily see his vocal ability and improvement ❤
I wonder if you watched Heeseung’s cover songs (off my face, camping everywhere, sofa) as well as his live stream vocals? Heeseung may as well be one of the best rnb style idols I have seen. Most of your examples are from his earlier not long after debut stages and I find it quite unfair. I came here with an open mind to see what you have to say about where exactly he needed improvement on and how he could do better, but you commented little to nothing, so what was even the point of him being in the video? Your intentions are unclear to me.
stop being butt hurt that your fave was mentioned in this type of video. Aint No Fun commended heeseung for being a great vocalist, but just that he has a lot of vocal tension and that the lines he has in enha songs are quite difficult for him. if he has a good rnb style voice, that’s great. but that’s not what the majority of enha songs sound like, and heeseung is straining his voice too meet the songs they’re given (and lack of proper training for)
@@xmhcix5310 Of course he has areas to improve on as a vocalist, that’s why I clicked on this video with him on the thumbnail, I wanted to see how a “professional” can analyze him. What I got from the video was just a couple of sentences with practically no information other than “he isn’t that great and needs to practice more”, plus a bunch of early clips when he had just debuted for a year or so. No matter how I look at it, him being on the thumbnail is just clickbait and will only generate negative misconceptions from viewers that are not familiar with him.
Not saying it's favouritism but Minnie postions are too much for her skills I can't get why is Minnie the main vocal when even Yuqi is a better vocalist than her 😭💀 Miyeon should have itself been the main vocal with Yuqi being lead & Minnie being lead/sub
I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING LMAO. Just because she had a unique tone, i don't think she's suitable for main vocalist position, Miyeon could have been.
It even shows when singing live while dancing. Minnie struggles and I’m not referring to when she’s sick/unwell but in general. When her parts aren’t like easy(?) she’s quiet or out of breath. Even at the beginning of songs. She gets intro parts, high notes, highlight parts AND killing verse but when performing them she’s struggling and has been struggling since the very first day. Amazing stage presence yes she has it. dreamy voice? Hell yes that’s mother. But making her the main vocal with main vocalist parts 3/4 of the time is too much when on the other hand you have miyeon that literally doesn’t know the word struggle and sounds like the recording with little to no backtrack when jumping around while still having a good technique and sounding rly good is well…. questionable. Even yuqi is better yet she’s still a sub vocal same for soyeon…
i’m so happy you included minnie! she relies waaaay too much on her style and technique. i remember watching that Beast “Fiction” cover stage a few years ago and i was blown away. her vocals were amazing and she wasn’t falling back on her technique. my favorite minnie stage
glad haechan was bought into this discussion and it was interesting to see this perspective. personally comparing idols like lia and taehyun to haechan is however what got me, as an nctzen myself it's important to consider haechan often times doesn't have to do the heavy lifting with three other main vocalists (taeil doyoung jaehyun) in 127 and two others in dream (renjun chenle). he fills his role well, acting as a stylistic vocalist and strengthening the already strong foundation that the other members contribute towards
Agreed, like for 127 especially you kinda know what exactly what parts are going to what members cause they all have different strengths that they are very aware of and comment on regularly. Like they always talking about how Taeil is the only one that can cover certain parts, as well as doyoung etc. I think it was the NCT music show they kinda discussed a lot of this in the ep where Doyoung, Haechan and Taeil sang their OSTs
the thing with haechan tho is that he literally can have an unshallow support its just his stylistic choices😭 when theres instances where he was forced to leave his stylistic for a bit he was able to support up to A4 AND the support sounds full too. which why i dont get why he doesnt let go of his stylistic choices when he are able to have a full support just fine and better without it like no shallowness at all. even his low register is a lot better without the stylistic singing. haechan case is practically pretty much a case of choice. whether he wants to sound stylistic and have shallow support or not sound stylistic and have full support. kinda like a switch
The problem for most of the idols in this video and the previous one is that they either don't know or don't care what they're lacking, or they've bought into their stans' never-ending praise of their non-existent vocal prowess. To add to that, they're also too lazy to do anything to improve. There's really no excuse for them to skip vocal lessons. Even EXO members Chen and Baekhyun, as well as some others, took daily/weekly vocal lessons at the height of their busy schedules (and still do!). Really, there are two types of "vocalists" in KPOP: Those who are talented and take their jobs seriously, and those who just rely on their fans' delusions.
"Really, there are two types of "vocalists" in KPOP: Those who are talented and take their jobs seriously, and those who just rely on their fans' delusions." All of the people in this video are talented. What they lack is skill, not talent. Lots of people are born talented, but it takes effort and time to develop skill.
Taehyun has an amazing voice! Realistically people don't listen to music for vocal technique but it is important to maintain vocal health and longevity. I hope the agencies will give more time for vocal training without changing the uniqueness of each idol's voice. You can have the best technique in the world but that doesn't necessarily make your voice pleasant to listen to!
TXT doesn’t have official positions, but if they did, it would likely be Taehyun. However, it's evident that TXT could benefit from improved vocal training, particularly in managing high notes where they tend to strain. With more focused vocal lessons, they could truly become vocal powerhouses, especially Taehyun and Huening Kai.
‘Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach’ (George Bernard Shaw, 1905). It is no accident that a lot of those who can talk about singing the most, can sing and understand the point of singing, the least. Kpop videos comment sections are generous with examples and cases in point.
Siyeon is probably my bias in Dreamcatcher not only because of her voice but also because of her incredible stage presence. I'm going to see Dreamcatcher live in about ten days and even though I can recognize she has her limits and flaws as a vocalist, I'm still very excited to see the girls! I know it will be a great concert. Thank you for your videos, they are very informative ❤
I feel like this is the main problem with the kpop industry today as a whole. It creates this perfectly constructed shiny outer shell while leaving the core (the most important part) empty. All of the emphasis is given on turning trainees into visually appealing products that can make these companies quick money. What's frustrating is that they already have extremely talented individuals under them but they refuse to give them proper coaching in order to develop their vocals skills so that at the very least they don't have a panic attack before being asked to sing live (looking at hybe). Also, make no mistake, other companies e.g yg/jyp still need to train their artists better in terms of vocals. There is just so much untapped potential they're either wasting away or blatantly destroying. Also atp it should be pretty clear to anyone that these training systems are a scam and it's just a way to extrapolate money from children who're desperate for their dreams.
More vocal lessons are always helpful, even the best vocalists can benefit from a vocal lesson every now and then. But I do hope somebody helps these Hybe artists, especially the recently debuted ones because their singing scares me. I like TXT and their music, but Kai and Taehyun‘s vocal performance at MAMA was terrifying, I was scared that their vocal chords were going to burst. BigHit please never make them sing that kind of song ever again. It feels much better when they sing songs in a comfortable range. Also &Team could really use some help. It’s a shame because they’re one of my favorite recently debuted groups and their discography suits my taste really well. But I watched their videos on The First Take and it was rough to say the least. I know that the first take is hardly ever the best for any singer, but I don’t know why their management would do that to them. Like somebody please save them because they’re being held hostage in struggle city. I still love K regardless, he will always slay in my heart.
Fr hybe is so annoying when it comes to this topic. The groups have so many dance lessons but why do they not practice their vocals with teachers more? And the obession with high notes.
I actually disagree - more stages like that at MAMA should happen so we can see the reality of the skills of the singers and the progress they (hopefully!) make
@@sannahbouzeghoub3871I get what you mean, it’s good to push past your comfort zone sometimes and MAMA is a good opportunity for that. But there is way to push an idol’s comfort zone in a healthy way that does not make me fear for their vocal chords. I would much rather have them keep it basic over pushing them when they don’t have the technical foundation for it.
Actually most singers use vocal coaches regulary and have them with them during promotions. And I am talking about artisa like Adam Lambert or Luciano Pavarotti or Miley Cirius, they were there to ensure that they keep their voices in perfect health.
What do you mean their performance at mama was terrifying? The endless rain performance? I thought they did amazing, I especially loved Huening’s high note without the vocal frying and the way he slowly put the vibrato at the near end. I was more concerned for Taehyun’s vocal frying, it’s his style but it may damage his vocals. Huening’s was more on the softer side and could control it more.
Highly disagree with your point about Siyeon's vocal health being at risk. I agree that her technique is not perfect and she has room for improvement but I just can't take anyone seriously when they start claiming that she's putting her voice at risk. Like have you even followed her journey at all? She's been singing for well over 10 years at this point, started in a band during high school, became a minx member performing some shows here and there, touring almost every year since Dreamcatcher's debut with 10+ stops on each leg of each tour, one of the few idol groups to not lipsync at music shows. Like this girl has been singing A LOT and for A LONG TIME. If her technique was causing damage we would be starting to see/hear the effects of that damage at this point. She would have developed vocal nodules at some point (which she hasn't but another member has). She has talked in the past about how much she takes care of her voice, she KNOWS that she needs to take care of her voice and I can only assume that she is taking the appropriate measures to ensure that she's performing with her vocal health as a top priority. Just the sheer disrespect to assume that she doesn't know that she needs to take care of her own voice is baffling to me. Dreamcatcher's entire concept is built off of the back of her particular style. I think the company and everyone who's livelihood rests on her voice being in good condition is telling her to take care of her voice. As someone that's worked with a lot of industry professionals I really can't say that Siyeon's technique is at a point where I would be concerned for her vocal health. If I was working with her I might ask her if she feels like it's easy for her or if anything feels slightly off when she's performing, I might see if we could make things easier for her but I wouldn't go as far as to say that she should stop doing what she's currently doing. As long as she's adding the distortion in a healthy way, which as far as I can tell she is, then it's completely normal for her voice to sound like it does in a song like break the wall. Also find it a little strange that you always seem to single out her voice in the more rock centric songs of theirs when there's plenty of other live clips of her singing in more standard pop-centric songs. Almost makes me feel like you're seeking out specific clips to push an agenda or something. And this is all before we start considering that vocal technique is not always linked to vocal health or vocal issues. I mean wendy has one of the best vocal techniques in kpop but has suffered from vocal nodules in the past. There is a whole lot more that goes into vocal health than purely technique. It's absurd and honestly a very shallow view of the voice if you take that stance. But hey, I get it. It's cool to hate on a vocalist that doesn't conform to the norms. I actually find it funny that all anyone can ever say about Siyeon is that her technique doesn't SOUND healthy (key word being sound, because it's literally impossible for us to know through recordings). Must be doing a lot of things right if that's the only critique anyone ever has of her.
Well said. I couldn’t agree more. Some people love to degrade Siyeon's ability. They clearly don't know much but talk as if they're pro in the field. It's all opinions and preferences. I attended a lecture last year where we discussed techniques etc... For that session, we had guests who actually work professionally in this field - friends of the Prof. for a forum. We talked about bad techniques. So, we searched for videos like this one...to choose which vocalist we wanted them to check on. Guess who they picked? Surprise... surprise... Siyeon ofc... BEcause of so many bad reviews of her singing skills. Is she really that bad? This might be shocking to some people but they only had praises for her. Mind you, they only watched live performances. Those included the songs she sang on vlives...having some somnies in the class was golden... 😂 We just knew which clips to show them (plus the clips where people question her techniques). Their summary: She has good techniques and skills that make her a very good vocalist plus talents. The level of control, adaptability and fluidity she displays is something only a very good vocalist can do with such ease. She knows her limit and how to use her voice and skills appropriately. And yes she can support pretty well (the age-old claim against her.) Yes, there are many good vocalists in kpop and siyeon may not be the best nor perfect but she is definitely top tier. The best outcome of that day: They looked more into Dreamcatcher and new somnia were born. They even went to more than 1 stop of Deukae’s latest tour. They only have 1 word for the girls - AMAZING!
THANK YOU for this. This channel owner really hates Siyeon for some reason and has consistently picked clips designed to make her look like a subpar vocalist (like that deliberately weird note in Maison that sounds like a bad belt if you aren’t aware it’s a consistent execution that doesn’t extend to any other songs in the same concert).
As much as I'm an open minded InSomnia and am always willing to let people have their own opinion, I really couldn't believe she was actually on this list lol Thank you for your long comment! I agree with everything you said
I truly think that she indeed uses a stylistic choice to belt in most songs and make her sound more raw, she does strain a bit sometimes like every other singer and that doesn't make her a bad singer at all. Dreamcatcher is a very performance/vocal group, they are singing live and you are going to hear them make mistakes precisely because it's live. But I feel people show the same type of clips to show her bad technique when you have live clips of concerts or stages of bsides where she doesn't use that type of stylistic choice and sounds heavenly. I can give examples like 4 memory, alldaylong, fairytale and even fireflies are great examples that she can choose deliberately to sound more rockish or more popish. She has room for improvement in the way to support notes that are more like metal vocalists would do them correctly (I would love to hear fry screams from her), I think she is a great singer, very stable and always delivers good performances you can't compare her with maybe Wendy but definitely is on the list of best vocalists of her gen.
I think Taehyun and Hueningkai have a really beautiful voice, but it's a shame that because they're under bighit, the technique they implent on them is sadly....just horrible. It sometimes sounds very nasal and they have a tensed jaw which also kinda makes it sounds straining. Hueningkai would have had such a beautiful explosive voice like we have seen in his cover of Youngblood, he could geniunely be the powerhouse of vocals in his era, but bighit got their grimey slimy hands on him which pisses me off. Taehyun on the other hand, i've seen from covers and songs that he has a very beautiful honey voice, which can be powerful. But again, bighit is ruining his potential. I think that even if they are lacking now, they're still good despite bighit trying their best to ruin them. If they get a western vocal coach, or just really any vocal couch outside of bighit, they'd flourish and reach the top.
So i see people in the comment section tormenting Haechan and others belittling Renjun and Chenle for some reason _even though they weren't even mentioned in the video_ and i don't know how to respond actually but i'm gonna say my opinion idols should care about technique for their sake and for the health of their voices and by extension the longevity of their career but the thing is being a Kpop idol isn't exactly a sustainable job, kpop focuses on trends and momentarily stealing the spotlight not to mention it's not strictly music, there's also dance and dare i say it's even more important than vocals and since everyone is competing for the spotlight not just with other groups but also fellow group members therefore it's only natural for them to focus more on style rather than technique. Let's take Haechan as an example he isn't on the same level with Taeil and Doyoung and he admits it but he's more famous because of his distinctive style and unique tone and if you know NCT or not, chances are you gonna distinguish Haechan first. Taeil is NCT strongest vocalist but he's not among the popular ones and that is applied to most groups... I hope you're seeing what i mean, i'm pretty sure all of them know exactly their strength and weakness but they choose to put in work and effort in areas that distinguish them and make them more favored with fans so it's only natural that they keep on polishing their style _even if it's bad for their vocal health_ and again Haechan is a very good example of this, he is very distinguishable vocally and fans hype him up so he doesn't really need to change anything same goes for other idols
Healthy technique is not for the fans but for the idols. Healthy technique helps sustain the quality of idols voices for longer spans. If Haechan doesn't improve his technique, he is going to become like Jimin. If he is not there already. Being stylistic doesn't mean you have to have bad technique. You can work on both
As for improvement, nct dream is a great example of how they learned DURING their career. Starting off as children was probably the worst decision on sms part, since they didn't give the boys a chance to develop their actual voices first, leaving them to learn during their extremely stressful career and improve all of their idol traits at the same time. They managed to do so however and while I don't think they're the best vocalists, they're still not done improving as they always say themselves. Still, sm really did waste their potential imo.
@@asareirene i agree therefore i personally care if idols sound good to me not if they're actually good or not, it's their job to care about technique not mine
@@myraclesname if SM utilized Dream correctly they would've been better, they debuted them early just to make them promote once a year and that's it for like 5 years, sometimes i feel like NCT DREAM started just 2 years ago with Hot Sauce... I really hope the best for Dream as they're my ult bg and i hope they become better with time without compromising their health
@@spideysargent2474 That’s Because Everyone Thinks That Jaehyun Is A Baritone And Everyone Think That Jaehyun Can’t A Hit High Note And Also Not To Mentioned That Haechan Delusional Fans Thinks That Haechan Is Better Than Jaehyun
I understand some of your points but stop putting/using Lia in your thumbnails especially with this vid caption. She is literally already on hiatus for serious mental health issues and you do this? It has neg connotations behind it AND this isn’t your first time. This is put under her name. Like yall can’t even let her heal and gain her confidence back? Like I understand yall would love to see her improve because she CAN. But yall do this daily and it’s getting annoying.
I don't think voices should be compared at all, because they are individual. It's legit to talk about whether someone has a good technique though (eg regarding strength and agility), or whether he or she can compensate somehow if not. In that case rather than sounding bad the greater problem is that it might hurt their voice in the long run. But I'm surprised people who critique vocals never talk about "ear": many people have good voices but often sing off key and vice versa. Sometimes it's just due to bad technical conditions (venue, feedback system down etc), so it can even happen to someone who has perfect pitch, but there are some idols to whom it happens regularly, but they are nevertheless praised for their singing (not going to name names :)), so Im beginning to wonder how many music fans are actually tone deaf themselves. :)
@@Shaveurpossi That isn't true. Singing off key doesn't just happen to people out of their range or with bad technique, many have strong voices. Sometimes it's due to the venue or technical equipment, then it can happen even to someone with great technique and perfect pitch. But there seem to be some who really just have a bad ear, eg Jonghyun of SHINee. Taemin of the same group said of himself that he was tone deaf when he was a trainee, but he learned, which is quite amazing and is further evidence that it wasn't due to the technique they were taught. Conversely, few people have perfect pitch, it's a skill few people have and it's difficult if not impossible to learn, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they can sing well (eg they can be instrumentalists and have no vocal training at all). Suju's Ryeowook has both perfect pitch and a lovely voice, but I've seen some vocal coaches who had some criticism regarding his technique (eg that it is sometimes a bit nasal and forced), but that had no relation to his pitch.
At the VERY least, you should use clips of the idols singing from the last year or so. When you decide to use clips of their singing from 3 years ago, it makes it hard to take your video seriously.
I'm happy but sad at the same time when taehyun have high note, I'm more comfortable hearing him singing in his comfort range he should practice his vocal more😄 Also just like the other video Hybe need better vocal coach
Love how you included most clips of heeseung from 1-2 years ago, even for taehyun you used a 0x1=lovesong stage performance from 2 YEARS ago. Please, both of these idols have improved so much. And you’re spreading this info in 2024. I’m not hating, I just dont want new kpop fans to think that both these idols are bad vocalists.
I disagree with you having Siyeon here when she can literally outsing all of the people here combined. Her singing style is a ROCK singing style, not the typical pop style, so of course it's going to sound different and more loud and powerful. Her voice is really strong and she's very capable of controlling it to the point where I've never seen a video of Siyeon singing offkey or her voice sounding strained out of her whole career of 10 years. She can project very loudly which might seem like too much to certain people (I guess) but that's because she sings in a rock style as she is a rock singer. I don't know why she's on this list when this is supposed to be for people who can't sing or strain all the time.
I love your take on Siyeon 🐺. She is a powerful vocalist and because of DREAMCATCHER'S concept she doesn't sound like all the rest. InSomnia for Life 💙💙💙💙.
Agree with what you said but just a reminder there's 4 main vocalist in 127 Jaehyun ,Doyoung and Taeil Along with heachan. And heachan got demoted in lead in 127 He's main in dream
yeah something important not mentioned in this video is the fact that he is never the only main vocalist and doesn't have to carry his group vocally unlike others on this list
i saw dreamcatcher live and it was their final concert of their worldtour and i could notice siyeon struggling quite a bit, she was tired and exhausted yet she still wouldnt miss a single highnote. she has massively improved since this video and i hope that she keeps improving!
Minnie’s style is so beautiful, and I feel like it compliments Soyeon’s sound in a very unique way. Everyone in (G)-idle needs more training, but Soyeon uses them cleverly to achieve a very very distinctive sound and I feel like they cover quite a spectrum and that masks their faults very well. I hope they can keep growing together, because they definitely have good instincts.
i think that most of these problems are bcs these companies push their trainees to learn to quickly and hit some highnotes. If they fix their training mindset they could make way beter vocalists in 3 years which might mean they need to relax with the 2 month training periods💀. Unless the trainee is already skilled enough before joining the company. Look at Jongho, not saying he has no flaws but he is one if the best ones in 4th gen. He was already winning singing competitions as a kid and he still had a 5 years training period. Also Lily from nmixx, literal goat.
I really like your commentary on Heesung cause I agree that I think he has a good voice full of potential, so with like professional consistent training he could be really really great. I think of Ten whom I really love, was a pretty weak vocalist when he joined SM, but has really improved so much with training and is still improving. I feel like he is a true testament to what vocal training can do.
You really said the most generic statement about haechan, but didn’t really provide examples of where he’s lacking or what wasn’t good about the way he sings. All you did was compare him to other vocalists in his group…..
(Only commenting on ggs since I'm not a fan of the boy groups in this compilation.) Hearing Lia sing, she uses too much throatiness and she's extremely nasal. She needs to open up and learn to balance her mix properly. She tends to raise her larynx a lot. Siyeon is very tight within her mix and placement. She needs to base her belts within her core, which she usually bases them in her throat. She uses a lot of nasality as well. Might be a stylistic choice. But if she were to open up and use her powerful vibrato as a way to release tension, she'd do so much better. Minnie definitely uses too much of a stylistic sound to be able to properly belt out healthy notes, with them typically coming out a lot tighter and weaker. If she were to engage her core a lot more, open up, and try phrasing, some of the higher belts would come out much easier for her. Then again, a lot of (G)I-DLE's songs aren't particularly vocally challenging for her so singing the way she does will not affect the overall outcome of the performance/song. I do believe Miyeon should also be in this compilation given that Miyeon tends to tighten her throat excessively and is often under the note. She also sounds like what struggle feels like. And on that note, I do believe Rosé of BLACKPINK should be on here. While she's an amazing vocalist, her heavily stylistic approach to singing hinders her technique to such a degree where baby girl can hardly sing live after doing an hour long show, let alone 3 songs. She gets winded very fast due to the constant airflow coming out from her voice. If she were to take more vocal lessons, I think she could unlearn her stylistic singing and use a more natural tone that could benefit her.
@@slaypa she is an amazing Vocalist. But not the best. Please don't speak on things if you're not a vocal professional. You do not know the technicalities that actually go into singing. The fact that she able to hold any note, let alone be able to have Agility and vocal support while using such an unnatural tone is proof that she is an amazing Vocalist.
@@CosmicWin are you a professional then? i learn vocal pedagogy, and she's not an amazing vocalist with her stylistic technique, what agility are you talking about?? her sloppy run??
but he IS better 😭so if haechan is being criticized it’s only FAIR that the 2 vocalists who are objectively weaker than him also get the same criticism
@@hyuckAH06how pathetic you can be to bring them unprovoked and camp under every comment that pointing out it's irrelevantness? it's nobody's problem that you can't read it mentions nct 127 and renjun and chenle aren't in 127.
yes they all need training but heachan was proberbly a more significant entry since he is the one who gets the most praise out of the three. secondly these videos are prolly too shorts to put 3 vocalists from the same group in. they might be in a pt 2. them being bad doesnt make heachan good@@hyuckAH06
@@myraclesname don’t worry I’m sure when a part 2 IS made renjun and chenle will be on TOP considering how laughably weak their vocal technique is if YOU’RE kekekeing about Haechan being hated on (for no reason btw when renjun chenle kun are so much worse than him) it’s only fair for for delusional chenle fans to get a reality check that their bias is one of if not the weakest sm main vocalist
I love multiple idols on this list, but this video is so respectful and informative that I don't see why someone would get mad at it. These idols can get better, and in some cases they SHOULD due to their risky techniques, we all wish for them to have long careers
Im sorry but I know many vocal coaches that said that Siyeon's vocals are incredible and so underrated. Sure she sometimes makes mistakes but saying that she needs lessons isnt It
@@dayjimong it’s been 15 years of singing and 7 years of touring, she’d be like Yuju if her technique was that unhealthy! SuA had nodules, too, so they’re aware of the importance of vocal health-but Siyeon literally taught Yoohyeon technique, the cherry picked clips and overblown concern are pretty moronic at this point.
I feel like there are too many filler members in 5+ member groups so many of them are left with insufficient training, on the other hand style is encouraged. If I’ve learned anything on this channel: style without technique can’t do good
Not sure if this is a good comparison [I know nothing about being a vocalist + I can't sing myself] but Siyeon's vocals kind of remind me of Jongho's in the way they kinds of strain + rely on vibrato. Both, I think, have so much potential to become healthier + more powerful vocalists. If anyone who knows what they're talking about and can comment on on this, please respond. Thank you for the video, very interesting for a non-singer kpop fan!
These fake voices analysis been saying siyeon is going to lose her voice for 6 years now just admit you don't know how rock vocal techniques work and give it up
@soyeonvsveggies the only reason y'all think it's unhealthy is because your are comparing rock singing techniques to pop techniques and than think that because the way she sings is different than the mainstream it's bad it shows a lack of understanding of the Rock genre and the singing styles used in it
@soyeonvsveggies more proof of lack of understanding I didn't say her voice fits rock I said she uses a different singing techniques which is why kpop fans with their limited knowledge of the Rock genre can't comprehend why the way she sings is fine
@soyeonvsveggies it's healthy cause it doesn't damage her voice you should understand how that works and for propose if you don't listen to actual rock just say that the way she sings that note is a very common style choice especially for female leads in rock bands your comparing rock singing to kpop and they aren't done the same
@soyeonvsveggies her voice wasn't better it was different this is more lack of understanding of how vocal styles other than kpop work and of dreamcatcher's music she sings in a more traditionally kpop style in the early days of dreamcatcher and has slowly moved to a more rock sound you seem to be unable to realize there's more than one viable way to do something as broad as singing
@soyeonvsveggies the reason you're saying it unhealthy is because it sounds like strain but that's the thing almost all examples I've seen it's not I'm not saying she the best singer out there but the reality is because of the vocal techniques she uses which are common for that genre people assume it's unhealthy because they're not use to it
My problem is he uses the same video examples in every video he does. I’ve seen the same Heeseung examples since he started talking about him 3 years ago. He doesn’t let artists grow. He also holds artists to high standards in bad circumstances, like encore stages (awful example of good vocals). Take Heeseung’s last three recording sessions instead of encore stages from two years ago. His opinions are arguably unfair to an artist’s actual capabilities
Hybe - especially Bighit - value style over technique. All of their current main vocalists, save for the members from Fromis_9 and Seventeen, are vocalists who are encouraged to prioritize style over technique. It's a problem with the conglomerate in general in terms of the way that they train and produce their groups.
Edit: The replies are a mess. Read at your own discretion.
Seventeen's spine are about to be broken for carrying Hybe with their vocals
And you can hear the limits of that practice when they have to sing live😡 Jungkook is actually pretty decent likely cause he has better techniques. Hybe is just lazy and doesn't want to hire more skilled singers as idols for whatever reasons
@@bebebongBaebaeJungkook is really good, but he prioritizes style over technique. But he has an incredible stamina, also an eye catching voice (ear catching idk HAHAHA). I believe that he'll improve his voice, he's young too.
@@xshxxoshe has the better technique in comparison to all the vocalists mentioned here, and by far in his own group, and I consider it is not a bad idea to choose style over technique in songs as you have to please the audience not trained them😂😂.
@@RP-dp8lo I was praising Jungkook... 👀 I don't get it
I want JYP to have whoever trained NMIXX vocalists train Lia. She has a beautiful voice and it’s being wasted because she doesn’t have solid technique. There is no reason why the weakest vocalist in nmixx (bae) should fall into the same vocal tier as the main vocalist of Itzy when these groups are under the same company. I know Lia probably can’t become a Lily or Haewon level vocalist but she can improve
this!!
Bae is actually a bit of a stronger vocalist than Lia
@@li.moreau I know she has A4 over Lia but aren’t they in the same category or tier
@@spideysargent2474 The channel owner (Ain't No Other Fan) doesn't believe in tiers. But even if we go with tiers, Bae is higher than Lia. Bae is Low Weak to Average (D-) and Lia is High Weak (E+). Lia regressed a long time ago.
@@li.moreau oh I see the gap between them is worse than I thought
what makes me sad about the JYP vocal training, after watching their survival shows showing vocal training (such as the nizi projects, a2k), they mostly teach them how to use their voices to fit a song effectively rather than continuously improving their vocal health and quality.
i feel like the greatest improvement in JYP vocals has to be Seungmin (and in turn I.N and Lee Know) with respect to the fact that Seungmin chose to go to a vocal coach outside of the company after getting the title of main vocalist, and I.N & Lee Know followed suit as the vocal line of Stray Kids. It's quite telling to know that even idols in the company acknowledge that the successful company is lacking in the vocal aspect of their training resources...
I hope Lia (and other vocalists in the company!) can bloom and find the proper spaces to improve further to best showcase her talent that we all know is there!
I completely agree with this
I always have some level of respect for idols who want to get better at their craft. It's sad that wanting to be a better vocalist is getting rarer these days(* cough * sakura * cough *), the only idols i can think of currently are taemin, moonbyul and as you said seungmin who are improving, asw as the nmixx girlies and the exo golden trio even though they're already at comparatively high level
Yeah seungmin went to the same vocal coach of the one and only byun baekhyun that’s is a great step for him his cover of D.O that’s okay him and I.N impressed me as an exol
@@k0k0m0n i also think what sets nmixx apart vocally, especially as a jyp group, is lily's role as main vocal. other than her amazing voice, her attention to detail and vocal performance that nmixx has brought up in different shows!
they have said that lily is sensitive to poor vocal technique and she reacts negatively (said in a cute way) to her members when someone is off-pitch, on the wrong tone, or could do better. i feel like it is such a healthy mindset to have when part of the group aiming to improve everyone's vocal skills alongside her own!
Oh I didn’t know that, it’s really cool. I hope they will shine:)
Exactly. I'm so tired of JYP giving Itzy and Twice ridiculously high songs. Like come on, not every pop song has to be at a pitch that only dogs can hear. Give them proper lessons and then let their actual voices determine what kind of songs they should sing.
Lia's example makes me sad. I know people say she has a deep voice which is why she struggles with itzy's discography, and while I agree, 'Red' should be WELL within her range. At this point it's not even her fault, this is on JYP. She seems (and sounds) entirely self-taught, despite having trained at one of the biggest kpop companies, which is insane to me honestly. It's like JYP Ent is just leaving their artists to fend for themselves.
Yeah, and the sad thing is that kpop doesn't seem very fond of female singers with deep voices. Yuqi is the exception though cause they self-produce songs and Soyeon encourages her. Even with Momo, her voice is much deeper but she's made to sing in a higher pitch, it's just sad
she don't have deep voice
she doesn't have a deep voice, but for for her level she actually has nice lows even sometimes better than vocalist above her
Ehh idk, If improving was important to her she could very well get herself a good vocal coach outside of the company like stray kids members are doing recently for example. She surely has the means. So I wouldn't say this is entirely on the company.
@@baoziday5178rven yuqi can do high notes too tho. She can easily sing any other members part without struggling
but aside from that, lia’s voice is not deep at all lmao. Yuqi and that one girl from stayc have deep voices
the way heeseung is the best vocalist in enhypen an was one of the best during i-land says a lot abt hybe's priorities
Yes, hybe clearly favours dance over vocals. I've heard enhypen's choreographers praise them for all being amazing dancers, but that comes with a price of less quality vocals unfortunately lol
@@p1kkuma its more like they prioritize style . remember when the producer pries jongwon for his vocal? the producers were praising not technic but color. a good dancer can be a grate vocalist (sm inter the chat)
But do you realize that this review just share outdated way of seeing vocal skills and music? I am a vocal teacher and I can tell you that Heeseung is truly amazing with his style and modernity...
@@p1kkuma Do you realize how stupid you sound? I am a vocal teacher and I can tell you that this reactor just have a very OUTDATED way of evaluating vocals skills and habilities and that enhypen have very good MODERN vocals
@@p1kkumabut nct all have amazing vocals and all dance so well .enhypen just wasnt focused onto vocals or they werent given proper training
Dreamcatcher is one of my ults and I completely agree that Siyeon relies on her vibrato way too much (although her vibrato is really nice!). Also the fact that they are making Taehyun scream will never not make me mad as a die hard Rock, Punk, and Metal fan. The fact that “undercooked” could be used to describe most of these idols will never not make me upset. They deserve better.
Fr Siyeon's voice is probably one of the most powerful vocalists in KPop in terms of voice projection. Whenever she sings, it's loud and you know it's her coming through with the meat of the song. She has so much room to improve and it's tragic that such a talented group isn't properly backed.
There’s no way Siyeon’s technique isn’t hurting her voice. It’s definitely not screaming, but her high notes can sometimes sound awfully nasal, especially in more reason comebacks. Propose is probably a song that showcases her nasalness. And she’s straining really hard. I hope she learns a healthier technique. Her voice is suiting for dreamcatcher songs but it might backfire in the future when her voice is damaged. I hope she goes down a healthier route. I really adore her voice and I’m a huge fan of dreamcatcher as a whole…
@@blackbird251 Siyeon is one of my ults and I really hope that she will get a healthier technique
Even Yoohyeon strained recently and it's sad bc they are all talented
Vibrato is good, why everybody would hate that
@@ikaru5089 I personally feel that she uses it to cover up/smooth out any problems she experiences due to the fact that she isn’t isolating parts of her voice properly, including any nasality she might encounter. However, her vibrato is definitely my favorite part of her voice!
Exceptional vocalists (such as EXO) still attend vocal lessons more than a decade after debut, which truly puts them a cut above those who don’t bother to hone their craft. And it shows.
Chen, Ryeowook and Kyuhyun the best male vocalists on Kpop still taking vocal classes. Why would someone undeveloped not take vocal classes?
I love that you put good vocalist but with clear struggles, because a lot of them are quite talented and with proper vocal training could be vocal monsters
With that being said, a part 2 would be amazing
Nope all are very talented and I hope they don't listen to this review who promote very outdated way of singing for nerdies
@@erwane8532 none of what he said was outdated, and while they are very talented, most of them are dropping the ball for their position as main vocalist.
He used clips that all are from 2 or 3 years ago for Heeseung while he kept working on his flaws, isn't it a toxic and hateful behavior ? And I agree with the statement that it is outdated @@Rese_AA
@@ChachaMariette if he used old clips, that one thing. But he isn't promoting any outdated form of singing which is what I was replying to.
@@ChachaMariette if he use old clips, that one thing. But he isn't promoting any outdated form of singing which is what I was replying to.
Lee heeseung and other members of enhypen have improved incredibly
Like I said in the last belting video, Shinee's Jonghyun is one of the most stylized vocalists in kpop and manages to control his voice however he wants to, but he always had a well developed and well rounded technique to support his constant changing and growth
Yeah I find it the distinction between trained and stylistic vocalists in kpop weird, as though someone with incredible technical ability can’t sing in a stylised way. I think kpop fans just use ‘stylistic vocalist’ to save themselves from admitting their faves aren’t great singers but sound good to them anyway.
@@_dont_mind_methe only good stylistic vocalist beside jonghyun is honestly yerin 15&, yes her hv is very underdeveloped but for a cursive singer her mix is actually very good
@@slaypaHonestly speaking, is Hwasa a capable stylistic vocalist?
@@asareirene oh yeah hwasa is good too for a stylistic vocalist
@@_dont_mind_me yes. Kpop stans think any good vocalist is automatically basic or boring to justify their favs' lack of fundamental vocal techniques as stylistic or unique voice etc.
Now we need the Lead Vocals edition that Will be fun ✨
agreed!!! partly b/c i selfishly wanna see an analysis of hueningkai’s vocals (since most people just discuss taehyun when it comes to TXT vocally). i’ve always thought HK’s vocals feel slightly more … well-rounded? and less strained than taehyun’s when they sing similar parts (i.e. “loser = lover” chorus or the shawn mendes cover shown in this vid). but also, HK is one of my absolute fave idols & i love his natural tone / vocal color - so i’d love to see an unbiased, well-trained person’s opinion on it, lol
*** lol i meant 5SOS, not shawn mendes, my b
my girl IVE Yujin will def be in there.
Most Lead Vocalists are far away from even being decent so this video would run forever
@fadegentetalentosa To be fair, shes one of the few idols whos actually taking vocal lessons. And those lessons seem to pay off as she has been improving quite a lot within the last few months
Cough cough Jimin a.k.a Strainmin
Haechan wasn’t always struggling like this, I think I’ve noticed a bit of vocal decline. Might be due to unhealthy habits or SM overworking this boy to death but his voice has definitely sounded healthier in the past. He can get back there again.
well this person DID use a video form fcking 2018 haechan was literally a child then😭 if you hear his recent vocal work like the recent recording behinds he’s MUCH better than chenle and renjun when it comes to belting, and he sounds open and relaxed and his notes have power and are rounded, whereas the other 2 sound like they’re in pain trying to sing c#5 notes like?!!? It’s WHOLLY unfair to just mention haechan (or mention haechan AT ALL and NOT use any of his RECENT work as “proof” btw🫤🫤) and not mention renjun and chenle when those 2 are so much weaker than haechan💀
@@hyuckAH06Hmm not sure I agree that age is a factor. Yes Haechan was like 18 but D.O.,Baekhyun and Chen from EXO were all in their late teens when they started and sounded phenomenal. I do think that many singers improve as they get older and gain more experience... If they continue to make their vocals a priority and take care of them.
I've only heard a slight decline in Haechan's vocals live and I honestly think it's because he (and Mark) are being worked to death. SM is not giving 127 and Dream enough rest and space between comebacks. Haechan has had several health issues and he's not able to have enough time off to address that and get healthier. I think his vocals will improve when he can properly take care of his health. The body can only be pushed so far
Tbh, one of the reasons why I'm a bit upset that he smokes. nctzens always say he 'outsing kpop anyway' are delusional. Bro literally already has issues from overworking himself. Him smoking is making it worse for him in a long run with the rate sm's slave schedule.
@@hyuckAH06Renjun and Chenle catching strays for no reason 😂 Nah but I saw NCT Dream tour last year and heard the vocal decline with my own ears. I thought Renjun sounded way healthier, open and more relaxed, and Haechan was struggling to belt. Renjun has improved a lot! Chenle has stayed the same but I wouldn’t say he sounds in pain. I think Haechan was just overworked at that time so I don’t blame him for not sounding his best but it’s completely valid to mention his slight vocal decline. He’s not above criticism.
@@addy8078 😂😂😂and you want me to take your criticism seriously then? Honey there’s a shit ton of videos online of renjun cracking his voice dozens of time on tour😭😭 “he sounds relaxed and has improved a lot” meanwhile renjun can’t hold a note without cracking 💀is that your definition of sounding healthier, open and more relaxed? if Haechan isn’t above criticism neither are they! And you don’t have to LIE, or just admit that you have a weird hate boner for Haechan 🤷♀️renjun and Chenle don’t have NEARLY the same amount of high notes and big belty and challenging vocal parts so of course they won’t struggle as much! and even then haechan’s voice was often the only one not completely drowned out by the backing track and was overpowering it meanwhile renjun was struggling to be heard through it😭yeah I’ve heard them live too… lmfaooo just straight out LYING about renjun and chenle now are we? anyone with a good pair of ears and basic knowledge of vocal technique can HEAR the struggle in renjun’s voice! I rarely hear him be able to sing without his voice shaking; chenle too is extremely weak BOTH are technically weaker vocalists than haechan
if taehyun won't change his technique, i'm really afraid he'll develop nodules or even worse, might damage his vocal chords to the point that he loses his range :((
Me too as a moa
Same as a moa
I don’t how to reach him even if moas got on board without igniting hate train from other fandoms
The sample videos for Heeseung are from 2021 and 2022, I think it would be more accurate to evaluate them with videos from more recent times. Because I think Enhypen has improved in general, but that doesn't mean it won't develop further, I just would like to see you evaluate it with more recent clips.
I’m amazed Rose is not in this video. She is an epitome of a monster vocal given a bad singing style that affects her techniques by her agency.
I honestly will never understand why jyp doesn’t give other the vocal training that nmixx got
probably has to do with the division system in the company. Nmixx are managed by an entirely different team.
@@K0108-x8y I thought that too, but if jyp employed the staff for vocal training in the first place and they’re doing well with nmixx it just feels like an injustice to itzy by not employing them to work with them/div2
@@FareedKhan-xs9njto be very fair, most of NMIXX were significantly stronger singers to start with
Maybe bc of nimixx's concept? Their music is a little weird, imagine how much more jarring it would sound if they weren't as talented vocally as they are?
Lia had so much potential, if she had had a better vocal coach who appreciated her tone and style, she could have been unstoppable. She can still get there, I believe in her. Even the best singers still take vocal lessons well into their careers, it’s nothing to be ashamed of.
so real, especially after i saw her jazz cover a few years ago when she was a trainee, she didn’t sound really shallow jypent really needs to find vocal coaches fitting to their trainee and idol’s tone and capabilities as well as vocal coaches who can help in different styles
Taylor Swift is a very weak vocalist too, her songs are very simple, vocally speaking, so the fact that you can't even keep up with that....
This!
I am so glad Haechan from NCT was included, many people don’t wanna admit it that Haechan actually falls behind in terms of vocal skills in NCT considering he is a main vocalist. It's a fact that he is a far better dancer than he is a vocalist.
Edit: The comment section is a war lmao. If you don’t understand singing don't talk about it. Just cuz someone is stylistic doesn’t mean they can't be technical. And yes Haechan is not the worst main vocalist of NCT, but he definitely isn’t as good as people claim him to be. ChenLe, Renjun and Kun don't get that as much praise about their vocals as Haechan does. N before anyone says I am bashing, no I am not. He is my bias in Nct. Also I can't believe ppl still actually don't understand that stability =/= good vocal skills.
He’s ain’t even that bad considering chenle and renjun are RIGHT there (2 main vocals) who are much weaker than him and still don’t support a single note they sing. Also the “he’s my bias” lie is so old like please grow a pair! If you’re openly criticising someone so much at least have e the guys to stand by what you say💀no way can he be your bias if you’re this happy about his being thrown under the bus when there are literally weaker vocalists than him IN nct🥴does it matter if chenle renjun and kun don’t get as much praise? they’re literally very weak, none of them SUPPORT so if anyone deserves this criticism IT’S THEM!!! I’m not lying when say it painful listening to renjun and chenle sing sometimes because the amount they strain with how weak thin and airy their voices are is crazy
He has to be by far the most overrated vocalist out of all NCT members if I’m being brutally honest.
Haechan is decent and carries live performance fine. I don't know why people are bashing him in the comments.
I wonder if he steps outside his comfort zone more in his Sun and Moon songs.
Compared to Taeil who manages to add a lot of style while not giving up healthy vocal habits, Haechan could do better. However this doesn’t mean he isn’t stable or have a good sense of intonation. He’s just a stylistic vocalist through and through.
I pretty much thought the same thing. Though for me, Haechan is more like a stylistic vocalists. So he's decent, yet not great type.
I’d love to see a ranking of different 4th gen groups’ (SKZ, TXT, Enhypen, etc) vocal abilities and why… Like, within the groups themselves. Also your opinion on some of the FIRST TAKE performances.
I feel like some of the kpop companies only know how to teach idols to sing high. Cause in some of the covers in this video, and others I’ve seen floating around, idols tend to sing higher and louder than the original song. Before my friend got our friendgroup into Kpop, we used to joke that idols sounded like they were on helium. I must have got used to it cause I don’t think we were far off back then 😂
True, because there is a cult of high notes in Kpop, which is based on a long tradition in Asia to regard unnaturally high voices as more beautiful, refined and artistic, and even in men (see eg Chinese Opera). The way the music is written also emphasises that (note that it is "linear" with decorations rather than full harmonies, even in groups). It's not that they can only sing like that, but it is an aesthetic choice and it really is especially difficult. Whether one likes it or not, it does deserve recognition as a technical achievement. Partly its due to Asian voices being a bit higher on average, but not that high. It does amaze me that even grown men can achieve such falsettos, and so many of them among idols (without being castrati, because they have normal speaking voices).
I agree 100%, almost all of the idols on this list are really inconsistent and often strain the notes out of their comfort zone, most of the time you can see that they are in pain/physically struggling while singing
@@im_Ahyeonshe has a ton of tension in her voice
I mean the title is "Kpop Vocalists Who Need Vocal Lessons asap" and shes needs vocal lessons asap destroying her voice like that@@im_Ahyeon
Nope, this reactor just promote very outdated way of singing for nerdies.... So sad
Taehyun is always struggling it's so sad actually.
@@erwane8532 you're so biased it's funny
haechan one is a hard pill to swallow for most people 😭
2nd gen Stan’s been saying this but everyone was calling us haters. It’s not our fault we got to experience an era when vocals for SERVING!!!!
Right these 4th gen Stan’s are the reason their faves get away with bad vocal techniques and why most trainees aren’t properly trained in it either 😂
real
@@markigirl2757 exactly!! They only have themselves to blame bc they praise any and everything 😂
Funny how Lia is bashed all the time for being a main vocalist meanwhile Taehyun and Haechan are praised for singing their hearts out but they are all more or less same technical wise🙂 I don’t want them to be hated/bashed like Lia but It’s really interesting…
P.s: Bold of you to put Haechan here, nctzens are already coming for you lol
The two boys sing with confidence and passion whereas as Lia, especially in the beginning, looked unsure and not confident. Look at the way she was just walking around that stage singing Red. It looked like a sound check than an actual performance. Also, both boys are great dancers and so half of their appreciation/ talent comes from their dance performance whereas Lia is significantly the weakest dancer in Itzy as if she made the group mainly on her vocals that are rather weak.
Ps. I don’t think Lia is a bad singer but rather it’s the way she has to sing for Itzy songs.
people pay more attention to female idols in general and they don’t have crazy fans to defend them. the guy from txt is the worst for me, at least lia has a nice tone and sounds incredible in certain songs
If anything she’s slightly better than them… especially Taehyun 🫣
@@DeeDeeDeeeee Even I think she’s better but as a whole with dance, performance, vocals, he brings more to the table of an idol than Lia.
While I am always on the lookout for institutionalized misogyny, as a totally untrained listener I do feel like Lia sounds more like she’s struggling than those two boys. What really makes me sad is that it clearly affects her confidence, whereas Haechan and Taehyun seem either unaware of or indifferent to the criticism.
Personal take : I feel like the best way of balancing out between style & technique for all these type of KPOP vocalists (Siyeon, Minnie, Haechan types) would just be mainly showcase style over technique in title track (since the company & composer of music too would want to focus style more which is pretty much the identity of these vocalist) AND showcase technique over style in b-side tracks (since as a listener to any of artist’s works, you would want every tracks to offer something different & new which can be a perfect chance for all these vocalists to step out of their usual zone and show the real vocal improvement there)!
Sorry if my explanation can be confusing.
Sounds like a great idea. I'll support you if you ever became a kpop music producer.
@@absolutelynotellen Alright 😄
yes but they still need good technique
Honestly KPOP companies give vocal lessons in order to make sure their idols sing in a way that they think is more friendly to the Korean audience. It’s one of the reasons why there are so many stylistic vocalists in 4th gen atm.
Like PURPLE kiss with Swan. A lot of PURPLE kiss songs are catered to the stylistic style of Chaein and Swan. Especially Swan. Which is why she gets more lines than Goeun and Chaein actually had the most lines in the last album.
I always felt Siyeon followed the style of the band's vocalist singing. Yes, that band, plays drums, bass, guitar and more. Band vocalist somtimes sing "at will" and are very free, no matter how good their voices are. And you're right, her voice sounded healtier at the begining of her debut (Minx and Dreamcatcher).
Dreamcatcher has enough rock and metal material that mimics the band's style which make Siyeon's singing not a problem, but she still has to retrain her voice. She can learn from the way Hayley Williams, Amy Lee, Freddie Mercury, M. Shadows, and Taka sing. They are the vocalist of a band whose singing level has been recognized as exceeding the standards of soloist even though they have to sing with a fairly loud genre.
I get what you are saying, but there are plenty of lead vocalists in rock bands that are vocally trained. Whether it be before joining a band or after and realizing they needed it.
@@mentalmaker03 Yup, that's why i said Siyeon can learn from them (not directly). There so many rock metal vocalist that musically and vocally trained, i just can't list their name one by one 😅
lia is so overhated for everything. her technique definitely needs a lot of work but what i noticed about her voice is she truly shines in slow songs, like falling slowly and her OSTs, her voice was MADE for those. her mid to lower registers are gorgeous and honey-like and her falsettos are so pretty. to me, falling slowly is the BEST song that showcases her voice. lia has one of the most distinct vocal tone in kpop to me
she is great at storytelling.
in itzy's music its being greatly diminished because they are doing that thing every member sing for 4 seconds and then next member. when they begin to get longer lines like 12-16 seconds at a time her strength will show.
just a random thought - IU's strength is also storytelling. if you put IU in itzy and similarly had her only sing 4 seconds at a time her strength would also be diminished.
11:25 NCT 127 has three main vocalists: Taeil, Doyoung, and Jaehyun. Haechan is a lead vocalist in 127 but a main vocalist in Dream.
Edit: Nevermind, looks like my information is outdated. Haechan is a main vocalist in both units. I apologize for the original statement.
that was in like 2017. he is one of the main vocalists of 127 now. sm made him main vocalist due to popularity
He's been main vocalist for 127 since Simon Says or Superhuman. And then confirmed main vocalist for NCT as a whole in NCT 4Seasons
he has been promoted as the main vocalists since superhuman era wdym
@@henolongerneedsme he was? My mistake then. I've been a fan since 2018 but I guess I looked over some news. Stupid of me, I know. I thank you and the others for correcting me.
@lilyrose0116 Thank you for correcting me! I appreciate it.
As expected. Majority on the list is from 4th Gen. The quality of "Main Vocalist" title in 4th Gen is just so underwhelming. They mostly sing with intuition rather than using actual vocal techniques. They sounded more like a sub-vocalist at best.
None of the people in this video sounded like sub vocals. Everyone here are lead vocalists material at least and Siyeon, Heeseung and Haechan are decent for main vocals. While Lia and Taehyun would still be lead vocals in other groups.
@@vixxexo6855 If you think that everyone on the list is lead vocalist material and some of them are decent main vocalists then your standards for these positions are pretty low. Compare them to 2nd and 3rd gen main & lead vocalists or even 4th gen like ATEEZ, Stray Kids, aespa main & lead vocals. The gap in vocal talent & quality is just so wide.
@@zeid9828 They are better then Stray Kids and Ateez lead vocals. Minnie who is the weakest singer her, is still a better singer then I.N, Seonghwa and San. Only Jongho is better then Minnie in Ateez and Seungmin is barely better then Minnie.
@@zeid9828 ikr I re-listened to some 2nd gen and 3rd gen songs recently and I realised how strong their vocals were in comaprison to 4th gen.
@@vixxexo6855Minnie isn’t better than anyone you mentioned besides Seonghwa, she’s VERY inconsistent with her quality on notes and is very sloppy, the others all have consistent strengths and ranges of support unlike her.
when you use some 2 or 3 years old stuff (except bite me) it doesn't make criticism fair. heeseung improved a lot beyond that videos, you could use some of current ones for better analysis at least 🤷♀️
Completely agree with you his vocals have improved a lot along with the other members
This is the only vocal commenter I trust on TH-cam, I wonder if there'll be a vocal ranking for 2nd gen girls
Using only old videos for some idols while they improved so much as they worked hard is not trusty, bro, it's toxic and hateful!
Man once gave an example of a main vocalist singing perfectly on pitch and called it no understanding of pitch. You want actual advice on vocals go check out Tristan Parades, man actually knows what he is talking about and doesn't just talk out of his ass for 20 minutes fooling all the braindead kpop stans who'd believe half baked bullshit.
Run for roses is living rent free in our head atp
Right
This channel is for real talk, that's why I subscribed
You subscribed because you are toxic and like toxic fan content. Like this video.
@@incheonguy it's not toxic to give real advice and critique based on actual knowledge about singing :)
as a singer myself, I know these idols would most likely not take it personally since most of the idols from these groups aren't receiving the proper voice lessons they deserve!
@@incheonguy nothing is toxic about constructive criticism. If people don’t receive it, they can’t improve. 👍 also, this channel is helpful for people who like to sing and want a better understanding of vocal techniques.
@@incheonguy I know 😂 cuz real and honest opinion always has to be toxic that some people can't afford it 😂
this channel promote very outdated way of singing, just for nerdies obviously
all of heeseung's clips were old. goodnight heeseung is an amazing singer and he has perfect pitch
not by technique
I like this series cuz it's real
I would appreciate if you share how to improve singing or the areas you're talking about in the video
That would be awesome
@@Scarletdevilish IKR it will help people like me who wanna learn singing ❤
@@Happy_Girl_101. I also want to learn but currently I have no money to pay singing lessons 😅 some insight would help me create a good foundation
This!!
No it's not real, it s a very outdated way of seeing how to sing just for nerdies...
unrelated but i love hearing the blue blood and run for rosés instrumental in every video
Yes i also noticed blue bood! It's so good
I thought I played an Egyptian folk video by accident
Blue blood instruments always confuse me
The way you only used 2-3 year old clips of Heeseung (i don't know if it is intentional, maybe you are not familiar) and the most recent (being more than one year old) being at a concert encore after singing and dancing for 2 hours... maybe you do have points but using these clips prove nothing i wish you did more research before making the claims you did.
I agree with you so much! It’s useless dialogue! Also what are his qualifications to say these things?
@@Jaydashed probably none… at least none stated
I’m a huge Taylor swift fan and she is not the best singer (she has improved) but the fact that lia couldn’t even do red is actually disappointing.
No need to improve. Autotune and pitch correction is always there to save the day and delulu fans easily gets fooled with their "heavenly vocals" as usual. 😂
You just sound stupid. As a vocal teacher I can tell you that this reviewer just has a very outdated way to evaluate vocals skills....
It's true but let's just hope and stay positive about a potential improvement of these talented artists
Not it's absolutely false and outdated @@solinkdc2645
You sound just like a ridiculous hater who supprot this channel and analysis which are based on very outdated views and just for the nerdies
Lol so true. This kinda mixing has skyrocketed in 4th gen songs like txt, enhyphen, ive etc. its either the mixing is too much such that it outstands the actual vocals or the track is louder or at par with the vocals. One of the reasons why I rarely like any 4th gen songs
I somewhat disagree about Siyeon. I wouldn't be surprised if she knew how to sing with proper classical (or closer to Disney/broadway style) technique, she's just choosing to sing in this very stylized manor because they have a rock themed group. Her voice sounds pretty dependable even while dancing, she isn't constantly going flat or cracking, so maybe this is a reasonable technique to achieve the particular sound she's after. If any rock band vocalists have a different take I'd be curious to hear it though.
I dont think so honestly, her voice is very shrill and thin, it obviously shows that it’s very restricted and not fully discovered unlike yoohyeon
@@titi7440 Yeah, Yoohyeon is great and has shown a lot of versatility.
eh i doubt it
@@titi7440 "fully discovered" siyeon has a full range and that means she's restricted in her vocals?
@user-tu9gz1ru5b I agree that siyeon has a whole range but she needs better technique. The producers are giving her notes that she doesn't know how to reach properly. She can reach them but she needs better technique.
IDK but stylistic vocalist shouldn't belts any note, they should sing normal vocal line (Like Minnie)
💯💯✔️
Though, i would like to see them atleast hitting some riffs and runs rather than high notes
8:57 taehyun is truly much more talented than what others make him to be! he just suffered from the standard too high notes hybe love but he got so comfortable now and especially sounds good within his actual range (I just watched their minisode: TOMORROW behind the scenes recording and it is evident how he approach rock/sounding raspy with less effort now compared to their 0x1=lovesong era)
It's well known that only SM provides consistent in house training for artists and it shows. They have the longest training and artists even continue to develop long after debut. That's why they have artists that continue to be successful for much longer and can keep up with changing styles.
Most of proficient singers in sm are artist even before join sm..
@@hafizishakhafiz7624I wouldn't say "most". Many can either already dance or sing well, but not usually both,
Luna, arguably one of the best vocalists that Kpop has ever seen, was not a vocalist prior to SM training. She was a dancer, but yeah i do agree that a lot of them have had prior training but idols like Jessica, Winter, Seulgi also had no singing experience but became decent vocalists through SM training. Gotta give them credit lol. Btw, i dont stan boy groups in general so idk much about bg members who weren't singers before but turned out as good vocalists through SM training. @@hafizishakhafiz7624
love the kpop vocalists content, need more of it!
Nope it's just outdated tastes and I just hate all at this reactor likes, just a channel for nerdies
Heesueng's vocal has improved a lot these days
When the owner of this vid just a haters I’m sure he will keep using this Heeseung’s 1st year content & 1st encore for clout.
@@gotugosrthis feels very aggressive, but in all fairness he is very obviously not a technical vocalist and prefers intuition so using old or new clips technique is probs gonna be rather similar also taking in consideration the love wins all cover but u dont have to agree 🤷♀️
I was so confused viewing this as the video is only 3 months ago and the clips you showed of Heeseung’s singing, were all in his fist 3-10 months of Enhypen. I was hoping for something more recent to accurately analyze his vocals at least since January 2023, since this video is from March 2024? Please update as you managed to get his one off pitch moment from his debut album
right? none of the clips that were used were recent
@@bethlarue9054 i’m not no vocal coach but ik he did a love wins all cover and it sounded um.. no comment, but he tried so I think the commentary about him is still correct but not a fan either so what would ik 🤷♀️
@@chennie8811 I completely disagree. Singing love wins all a cappella off the cuff, was pretty amazing and I’d love to see another K-pop artist do it as well as he did. He did not go off pitch, and he sang it in the original key.
@@bethlarue9054 It’s more about I was talking about his voice when he sings in upper ranges, I can feel the struggle and the lack of the support in his voice (not talking about the kpop tiers) from a mile away, it’s obvious he’s not a technical vocalist in any way and goes of by intuition . And i think there are vocalists who did do better such as Liz and the one of the EXO member’s did sorry idk their names well tho if u disagree, thats fine 🤷♀️
Agree to disagree. If you look at him while he is singing, you will see the expressions that he does for effect, but if you listen to him blindly, you will realize he has plenty of support for the high range
When you only using Heeseung’s 1st year as a content to judge his talents while he already 3rd year in the industry, its said a lots about your intention!? you event can used his current photo but not his current works?!
if you criticize idols for their singing you should use more current examples of their singing. heeseungs videos were all from at least 2 years ago and he has improved since then. The same goes for Taehyun and to some degree haechan, too, though I don't follow nct anymore so I don't know how much he improved. I have noticed the same issue with the last video you made about vocalists
thank you for this! every single time i see a video or short discussing or even just mentioning idols' vocals, the comments are just flooded with blinded fans. if you're as big of a fan as you claim to be, you should know that your faves can do better. it's okay to not be the best. it's okay to be bad as long as you recognize it and work on it!
As a consumer I will spend my money on songs that gives pleasure to my ears. I don't know if Enhypen's vocal techniques are good or bad I am not a vocal coach so are 90% kpop listeners. But all I can say is out of all 4th gen groups I find Enhypen's vocal most appealing & kind of addictive. I can loop their songs for the entire day especially the R&b influenced ones and not get bored
Than you don't have be on this channel.. if you don't care about vocals technique
allllllll 4th gen groups? you've listened to all of them?
Heeseung has improved quite a lot over the years. I am kinda disappointed you used clips of him from almost 2 to 3 years ago. On top of that, all of them are from his debut era except one. So, it's not accurate to judge his vocals based on that. Enhypen did a mini song concert "highway" for their 3rd aniversary which was live mostly. You could have used that instead.
You can improve quite and bit and still be on the list
@@sliverhalo9286Yeah but in Heeseung's case. what is the point of showing his weakness with clips that are from 2021-22?? At least put new ones too
@@lu2400 exactly
@@sliverhalo9286 when the owner of this vid used old contents which is the artist 1st year in the industry it’s said a lots of his intention and to attract haters too!? they are already in 3rd years they have a lots of contents & improvement!
Yep he clearly did not do his research. He didn’t even have much to say in his section so I don’t understand hate other reason is there to drag Heeseung in this video other than having him in the thumbnail for clout.
This video really illustrates something I was talking about earlier today: Two things that really set earlier gens apart especially 2nd and 3rd gen were a) allowing idols to have specialized positions and play to their strengths instead of pushing the “all rounder” propaganda. b) longer and more rigorous trainee periods so that idols / groups weren’t being served up so half-baked.
I don’t know if it’s in a bid to cut costs on idol training or just the competitive demand that comes with every Korean teenager wanting to become an idol, but Kpop companies are so preoccupied with with debuting new groups and making as much money as they can with the bare minimum of investment, that they forget idols actually require training; pre-debut and on an ongoing basis.
Longevity means nothing to the companies who are always ready to trade them in for a newer model so they really dgaf if the idols end up destroying their vocal cords with unhealthy technique and it shows!
It’s kinda funny though, even though JYPE is such a slouch in this department, I think their sublabel studio J actually houses some of the strongest male vocalists in 4th gen: Jooyeon and Jungsu from Xdinary Heroes.
Maybe being a band with instruments and not having to be preoccupied with choreo actually gives them some room to work on developing their voices.
Even with Day6 as a 3rd gen example, I’d say Young K is one of the most technically proficient and confident male vocalists in the industry bc he’s constantly improvising and switching up his vocals in creative ways and I’ve never seen it fall flat. That type of confidence lets you know that time and care have gone into cultivating good technique!
you're so right on jyp housing really great vocalists in the 4th gen jooyeon and jungsu also yesss, young k appreciation at the end there. love to see young k being praised
For Heeseung, he was good a even vocalist before debuting and as time passed he improved alot and now is one of the best vocalist.. if you just see recent live medley of enhypen or even his solo lives when he sings you can easily see his vocal ability and improvement ❤
I wonder if you watched Heeseung’s cover songs (off my face, camping everywhere, sofa) as well as his live stream vocals? Heeseung may as well be one of the best rnb style idols I have seen. Most of your examples are from his earlier not long after debut stages and I find it quite unfair. I came here with an open mind to see what you have to say about where exactly he needed improvement on and how he could do better, but you commented little to nothing, so what was even the point of him being in the video? Your intentions are unclear to me.
stop being butt hurt that your fave was mentioned in this type of video. Aint No Fun commended heeseung for being a great vocalist, but just that he has a lot of vocal tension and that the lines he has in enha songs are quite difficult for him.
if he has a good rnb style voice, that’s great. but that’s not what the majority of enha songs sound like, and heeseung is straining his voice too meet the songs they’re given (and lack of proper training for)
@@xmhcix5310 Yes, but some people took this at a chance to hate on him so some fans got defensive.
@@xmhcix5310 Of course he has areas to improve on as a vocalist, that’s why I clicked on this video with him on the thumbnail, I wanted to see how a “professional” can analyze him. What I got from the video was just a couple of sentences with practically no information other than “he isn’t that great and needs to practice more”, plus a bunch of early clips when he had just debuted for a year or so. No matter how I look at it, him being on the thumbnail is just clickbait and will only generate negative misconceptions from viewers that are not familiar with him.
Haechan is a main vocalist in NCT Dream, but a lead vocalist in NCT 127. Jaehyun is the third main vocalist of NCT 127.
Not saying it's favouritism but Minnie postions are too much for her skills
I can't get why is Minnie the main vocal when even Yuqi is a better vocalist than her 😭💀
Miyeon should have itself been the main vocal with Yuqi being lead & Minnie being lead/sub
… also their tones together would be chefs kiss 😩😩😩
I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING LMAO. Just because she had a unique tone, i don't think she's suitable for main vocalist position, Miyeon could have been.
I guess Minnie’s vocal tone is really that addicting & mellow which make her become a main vocal instead lol
@soyeonvsveggies why 😭
It even shows when singing live while dancing. Minnie struggles and I’m not referring to when she’s sick/unwell but in general. When her parts aren’t like easy(?) she’s quiet or out of breath. Even at the beginning of songs. She gets intro parts, high notes, highlight parts AND killing verse but when performing them she’s struggling and has been struggling since the very first day.
Amazing stage presence yes she has it. dreamy voice? Hell yes that’s mother. But making her the main vocal with main vocalist parts 3/4 of the time is too much when on the other hand you have miyeon that literally doesn’t know the word struggle and sounds like the recording with little to no backtrack when jumping around while still having a good technique and sounding rly good is well…. questionable. Even yuqi is better yet she’s still a sub vocal same for soyeon…
i’m so happy you included minnie! she relies waaaay too much on her style and technique. i remember watching that Beast “Fiction” cover stage a few years ago and i was blown away. her vocals were amazing and she wasn’t falling back on her technique. my favorite minnie stage
glad haechan was bought into this discussion and it was interesting to see this perspective. personally comparing idols like lia and taehyun to haechan is however what got me, as an nctzen myself it's important to consider haechan often times doesn't have to do the heavy lifting with three other main vocalists (taeil doyoung jaehyun) in 127 and two others in dream (renjun chenle). he fills his role well, acting as a stylistic vocalist and strengthening the already strong foundation that the other members contribute towards
Agreed, like for 127 especially you kinda know what exactly what parts are going to what members cause they all have different strengths that they are very aware of and comment on regularly. Like they always talking about how Taeil is the only one that can cover certain parts, as well as doyoung etc. I think it was the NCT music show they kinda discussed a lot of this in the ep where Doyoung, Haechan and Taeil sang their OSTs
the thing with haechan tho is that he literally can have an unshallow support its just his stylistic choices😭 when theres instances where he was forced to leave his stylistic for a bit he was able to support up to A4 AND the support sounds full too. which why i dont get why he doesnt let go of his stylistic choices when he are able to have a full support just fine and better without it like no shallowness at all. even his low register is a lot better without the stylistic singing. haechan case is practically pretty much a case of choice. whether he wants to sound stylistic and have shallow support or not sound stylistic and have full support. kinda like a switch
The problem for most of the idols in this video and the previous one is that they either don't know or don't care what they're lacking, or they've bought into their stans' never-ending praise of their non-existent vocal prowess. To add to that, they're also too lazy to do anything to improve. There's really no excuse for them to skip vocal lessons. Even EXO members Chen and Baekhyun, as well as some others, took daily/weekly vocal lessons at the height of their busy schedules (and still do!). Really, there are two types of "vocalists" in KPOP: Those who are talented and take their jobs seriously, and those who just rely on their fans' delusions.
"Really, there are two types of "vocalists" in KPOP: Those who are talented and take their jobs seriously, and those who just rely on their fans' delusions." All of the people in this video are talented. What they lack is skill, not talent. Lots of people are born talented, but it takes effort and time to develop skill.
@@li.moreau that's what they said that they're not putting in the effort & dedication to develop their skills.
Taehyun has an amazing voice! Realistically people don't listen to music for vocal technique but it is important to maintain vocal health and longevity. I hope the agencies will give more time for vocal training without changing the uniqueness of each idol's voice. You can have the best technique in the world but that doesn't necessarily make your voice pleasant to listen to!
TXT doesn’t have official positions, but if they did, it would likely be Taehyun.
However, it's evident that TXT could benefit from improved vocal training, particularly in managing high notes where they tend to strain. With more focused vocal lessons, they could truly become vocal powerhouses, especially Taehyun and Huening Kai.
‘Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach’ (George Bernard Shaw, 1905). It is no accident that a lot of those who can talk about singing the most, can sing and understand the point of singing, the least. Kpop videos comment sections are generous with examples and cases in point.
but the comments are entertaining 😂
Some idiots on insta are fighting with me and not accepting Taehyun vocals are weak 🤦🏻♀️
Well they are not weak, they just need improvement
@@lenahenning He is weak tho, lol.
I believe with good vocal coach he can become one of the best
Siyeon is probably my bias in Dreamcatcher not only because of her voice but also because of her incredible stage presence. I'm going to see Dreamcatcher live in about ten days and even though I can recognize she has her limits and flaws as a vocalist, I'm still very excited to see the girls! I know it will be a great concert. Thank you for your videos, they are very informative ❤
I feel like this is the main problem with the kpop industry today as a whole. It creates this perfectly constructed shiny outer shell while leaving the core (the most important part) empty. All of the emphasis is given on turning trainees into visually appealing products that can make these companies quick money. What's frustrating is that they already have extremely talented individuals under them but they refuse to give them proper coaching in order to develop their vocals skills so that at the very least they don't have a panic attack before being asked to sing live (looking at hybe). Also, make no mistake, other companies e.g yg/jyp still need to train their artists better in terms of vocals. There is just so much untapped potential they're either wasting away or blatantly destroying.
Also atp it should be pretty clear to anyone that these training systems are a scam and it's just a way to extrapolate money from children who're desperate for their dreams.
I personally love Taehyun vocals especially his “growl” / “rasp” but when it comes down to technique I think Kai is way ahead of him.
More vocal lessons are always helpful, even the best vocalists can benefit from a vocal lesson every now and then. But I do hope somebody helps these Hybe artists, especially the recently debuted ones because their singing scares me. I like TXT and their music, but Kai and Taehyun‘s vocal performance at MAMA was terrifying, I was scared that their vocal chords were going to burst. BigHit please never make them sing that kind of song ever again. It feels much better when they sing songs in a comfortable range. Also &Team could really use some help. It’s a shame because they’re one of my favorite recently debuted groups and their discography suits my taste really well. But I watched their videos on The First Take and it was rough to say the least. I know that the first take is hardly ever the best for any singer, but I don’t know why their management would do that to them. Like somebody please save them because they’re being held hostage in struggle city. I still love K regardless, he will always slay in my heart.
Fr hybe is so annoying when it comes to this topic. The groups have so many dance lessons but why do they not practice their vocals with teachers more? And the obession with high notes.
I actually disagree - more stages like that at MAMA should happen so we can see the reality of the skills of the singers and the progress they (hopefully!) make
@@sannahbouzeghoub3871I get what you mean, it’s good to push past your comfort zone sometimes and MAMA is a good opportunity for that. But there is way to push an idol’s comfort zone in a healthy way that does not make me fear for their vocal chords. I would much rather have them keep it basic over pushing them when they don’t have the technical foundation for it.
Actually most singers use vocal coaches regulary and have them with them during promotions. And I am talking about artisa like Adam Lambert or Luciano Pavarotti or Miley Cirius, they were there to ensure that they keep their voices in perfect health.
What do you mean their performance at mama was terrifying? The endless rain performance? I thought they did amazing, I especially loved Huening’s high note without the vocal frying and the way he slowly put the vibrato at the near end. I was more concerned for Taehyun’s vocal frying, it’s his style but it may damage his vocals.
Huening’s was more on the softer side and could control it more.
Highly disagree with your point about Siyeon's vocal health being at risk. I agree that her technique is not perfect and she has room for improvement but I just can't take anyone seriously when they start claiming that she's putting her voice at risk. Like have you even followed her journey at all? She's been singing for well over 10 years at this point, started in a band during high school, became a minx member performing some shows here and there, touring almost every year since Dreamcatcher's debut with 10+ stops on each leg of each tour, one of the few idol groups to not lipsync at music shows. Like this girl has been singing A LOT and for A LONG TIME. If her technique was causing damage we would be starting to see/hear the effects of that damage at this point. She would have developed vocal nodules at some point (which she hasn't but another member has). She has talked in the past about how much she takes care of her voice, she KNOWS that she needs to take care of her voice and I can only assume that she is taking the appropriate measures to ensure that she's performing with her vocal health as a top priority.
Just the sheer disrespect to assume that she doesn't know that she needs to take care of her own voice is baffling to me. Dreamcatcher's entire concept is built off of the back of her particular style. I think the company and everyone who's livelihood rests on her voice being in good condition is telling her to take care of her voice.
As someone that's worked with a lot of industry professionals I really can't say that Siyeon's technique is at a point where I would be concerned for her vocal health. If I was working with her I might ask her if she feels like it's easy for her or if anything feels slightly off when she's performing, I might see if we could make things easier for her but I wouldn't go as far as to say that she should stop doing what she's currently doing. As long as she's adding the distortion in a healthy way, which as far as I can tell she is, then it's completely normal for her voice to sound like it does in a song like break the wall. Also find it a little strange that you always seem to single out her voice in the more rock centric songs of theirs when there's plenty of other live clips of her singing in more standard pop-centric songs. Almost makes me feel like you're seeking out specific clips to push an agenda or something.
And this is all before we start considering that vocal technique is not always linked to vocal health or vocal issues. I mean wendy has one of the best vocal techniques in kpop but has suffered from vocal nodules in the past. There is a whole lot more that goes into vocal health than purely technique. It's absurd and honestly a very shallow view of the voice if you take that stance.
But hey, I get it. It's cool to hate on a vocalist that doesn't conform to the norms. I actually find it funny that all anyone can ever say about Siyeon is that her technique doesn't SOUND healthy (key word being sound, because it's literally impossible for us to know through recordings). Must be doing a lot of things right if that's the only critique anyone ever has of her.
Well said. I couldn’t agree more. Some people love to degrade Siyeon's ability. They clearly don't know much but talk as if they're pro in the field. It's all opinions and preferences.
I attended a lecture last year where we discussed techniques etc... For that session, we had guests who actually work professionally in this field - friends of the Prof. for a forum.
We talked about bad techniques. So, we searched for videos like this one...to choose which vocalist we wanted them to check on.
Guess who they picked? Surprise... surprise... Siyeon ofc... BEcause of so many bad reviews of her singing skills. Is she really that bad?
This might be shocking to some people but they only had praises for her. Mind you, they only watched live performances. Those included the songs she sang on vlives...having some somnies in the class was golden... 😂 We just knew which clips to show them (plus the clips where people question her techniques).
Their summary:
She has good techniques and skills that make her a very good vocalist plus talents. The level of control, adaptability and fluidity she displays is something only a very good vocalist can do with such ease. She knows her limit and how to use her voice and skills appropriately. And yes she can support pretty well (the age-old claim against her.) Yes, there are many good vocalists in kpop and siyeon may not be the best nor perfect but she is definitely top tier.
The best outcome of that day:
They looked more into Dreamcatcher and new somnia were born. They even went to more than 1 stop of Deukae’s latest tour. They only have 1 word for the girls - AMAZING!
THANK YOU for this. This channel owner really hates Siyeon for some reason and has consistently picked clips designed to make her look like a subpar vocalist (like that deliberately weird note in Maison that sounds like a bad belt if you aren’t aware it’s a consistent execution that doesn’t extend to any other songs in the same concert).
As much as I'm an open minded InSomnia and am always willing to let people have their own opinion, I really couldn't believe she was actually on this list lol
Thank you for your long comment! I agree with everything you said
I truly think that she indeed uses a stylistic choice to belt in most songs and make her sound more raw, she does strain a bit sometimes like every other singer and that doesn't make her a bad singer at all. Dreamcatcher is a very performance/vocal group, they are singing live and you are going to hear them make mistakes precisely because it's live.
But I feel people show the same type of clips to show her bad technique when you have live clips of concerts or stages of bsides where she doesn't use that type of stylistic choice and sounds heavenly. I can give examples like 4 memory, alldaylong, fairytale and even fireflies are great examples that she can choose deliberately to sound more rockish or more popish.
She has room for improvement in the way to support notes that are more like metal vocalists would do them correctly (I would love to hear fry screams from her), I think she is a great singer, very stable and always delivers good performances you can't compare her with maybe Wendy but definitely is on the list of best vocalists of her gen.
I think Taehyun and Hueningkai have a really beautiful voice, but it's a shame that because they're under bighit, the technique they implent on them is sadly....just horrible. It sometimes sounds very nasal and they have a tensed jaw which also kinda makes it sounds straining. Hueningkai would have had such a beautiful explosive voice like we have seen in his cover of Youngblood, he could geniunely be the powerhouse of vocals in his era, but bighit got their grimey slimy hands on him which pisses me off. Taehyun on the other hand, i've seen from covers and songs that he has a very beautiful honey voice, which can be powerful. But again, bighit is ruining his potential. I think that even if they are lacking now, they're still good despite bighit trying their best to ruin them. If they get a western vocal coach, or just really any vocal couch outside of bighit, they'd flourish and reach the top.
So i see people in the comment section tormenting Haechan and others belittling Renjun and Chenle for some reason _even though they weren't even mentioned in the video_ and i don't know how to respond actually but i'm gonna say my opinion idols should care about technique for their sake and for the health of their voices and by extension the longevity of their career but the thing is being a Kpop idol isn't exactly a sustainable job, kpop focuses on trends and momentarily stealing the spotlight not to mention it's not strictly music, there's also dance and dare i say it's even more important than vocals and since everyone is competing for the spotlight not just with other groups but also fellow group members therefore it's only natural for them to focus more on style rather than technique. Let's take Haechan as an example he isn't on the same level with Taeil and Doyoung and he admits it but he's more famous because of his distinctive style and unique tone and if you know NCT or not, chances are you gonna distinguish Haechan first. Taeil is NCT strongest vocalist but he's not among the popular ones and that is applied to most groups... I hope you're seeing what i mean, i'm pretty sure all of them know exactly their strength and weakness but they choose to put in work and effort in areas that distinguish them and make them more favored with fans so it's only natural that they keep on polishing their style _even if it's bad for their vocal health_ and again Haechan is a very good example of this, he is very distinguishable vocally and fans hype him up so he doesn't really need to change anything same goes for other idols
Healthy technique is not for the fans but for the idols. Healthy technique helps sustain the quality of idols voices for longer spans. If Haechan doesn't improve his technique, he is going to become like Jimin. If he is not there already. Being stylistic doesn't mean you have to have bad technique. You can work on both
As for improvement, nct dream is a great example of how they learned DURING their career. Starting off as children was probably the worst decision on sms part, since they didn't give the boys a chance to develop their actual voices first, leaving them to learn during their extremely stressful career and improve all of their idol traits at the same time.
They managed to do so however and while I don't think they're the best vocalists, they're still not done improving as they always say themselves. Still, sm really did waste their potential imo.
@@asareirene i agree therefore i personally care if idols sound good to me not if they're actually good or not, it's their job to care about technique not mine
@@myraclesname if SM utilized Dream correctly they would've been better, they debuted them early just to make them promote once a year and that's it for like 5 years, sometimes i feel like NCT DREAM started just 2 years ago with Hot Sauce... I really hope the best for Dream as they're my ult bg and i hope they become better with time without compromising their health
@@confused7970 My point is that it's possible to sound good and have good technique. In fact, you are more likely to sound better with good technique
2:41 Why did her management let her get up on stage and sing that song? She couldn't have sounded any better during practice. They set her up to fail.
nct127 has 4 main vocalists😭😭 u cant forget about jaehyunnnnn. hes pretty good too tho
Literally jaehyun didn't sing his heart out in without u and timeless plus coming home, magic carpet, no longer, end to start, white night, plus more
@@nthapa2640to drive your point home, you should have added "to be treated like this"
Yeah Jaehyun has solid technique and supported range I’m confused why he’s always ignored even by vocal channels
@@spideysargent2474 That’s Because Everyone Thinks That Jaehyun Is A Baritone And Everyone Think That Jaehyun Can’t A Hit High Note And Also Not To Mentioned That Haechan Delusional Fans Thinks That Haechan Is Better Than Jaehyun
I understand some of your points but stop putting/using Lia in your thumbnails especially with this vid caption. She is literally already on hiatus for serious mental health issues and you do this? It has neg connotations behind it AND this isn’t your first time. This is put under her name. Like yall can’t even let her heal and gain her confidence back? Like I understand yall would love to see her improve because she CAN. But yall do this daily and it’s getting annoying.
I don't think voices should be compared at all, because they are individual.
It's legit to talk about whether someone has a good technique though (eg regarding strength and agility), or whether he or she can compensate somehow if not. In that case rather than sounding bad the greater problem is that it might hurt their voice in the long run.
But I'm surprised people who critique vocals never talk about "ear": many people have good voices but often sing off key and vice versa. Sometimes it's just due to bad technical conditions (venue, feedback system down etc), so it can even happen to someone who has perfect pitch, but there are some idols to whom it happens regularly, but they are nevertheless praised for their singing (not going to name names :)), so Im beginning to wonder how many music fans are actually tone deaf themselves. :)
Nah
They have bad vocal technique!(when they sing out of their range)
They should be trained to carry a note.
That’s just some excuse.
@@Shaveurpossi That isn't true. Singing off key doesn't just happen to people out of their range or with bad technique, many have strong voices. Sometimes it's due to the venue or technical equipment, then it can happen even to someone with great technique and perfect pitch. But there seem to be some who really just have a bad ear, eg Jonghyun of SHINee. Taemin of the same group said of himself that he was tone deaf when he was a trainee, but he learned, which is quite amazing and is further evidence that it wasn't due to the technique they were taught. Conversely, few people have perfect pitch, it's a skill few people have and it's difficult if not impossible to learn, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they can sing well (eg they can be instrumentalists and have no vocal training at all). Suju's Ryeowook has both perfect pitch and a lovely voice, but I've seen some vocal coaches who had some criticism regarding his technique (eg that it is sometimes a bit nasal and forced), but that had no relation to his pitch.
@@aligensaRyeowook and Taeyeon voices are GOLD.
@@mathhenri-xy5fhNo worries, I agree. ;)
At the VERY least, you should use clips of the idols singing from the last year or so. When you decide to use clips of their singing from 3 years ago, it makes it hard to take your video seriously.
exo's main vocalists are kpop's main vocalists. And these men still take vocal lessons. Real singers
I'm happy but sad at the same time when taehyun have high note, I'm more comfortable hearing him singing in his comfort range he should practice his vocal more😄
Also just like the other video Hybe need better vocal coach
11:20 Jaehyun was forgotten again...
Love how you included most clips of heeseung from 1-2 years ago, even for taehyun you used a 0x1=lovesong stage performance from 2 YEARS ago. Please, both of these idols have improved so much. And you’re spreading this info in 2024. I’m not hating, I just dont want new kpop fans to think that both these idols are bad vocalists.
I disagree with you having Siyeon here when she can literally outsing all of the people here combined. Her singing style is a ROCK singing style, not the typical pop style, so of course it's going to sound different and more loud and powerful. Her voice is really strong and she's very capable of controlling it to the point where I've never seen a video of Siyeon singing offkey or her voice sounding strained out of her whole career of 10 years. She can project very loudly which might seem like too much to certain people (I guess) but that's because she sings in a rock style as she is a rock singer. I don't know why she's on this list when this is supposed to be for people who can't sing or strain all the time.
I love your take on Siyeon 🐺. She is a powerful vocalist and because of DREAMCATCHER'S concept she doesn't sound like all the rest. InSomnia for Life 💙💙💙💙.
Agree with what you said but just a reminder there's 4 main vocalist in 127 Jaehyun ,Doyoung and Taeil Along with heachan. And heachan got demoted in lead in 127 He's main in dream
yeah something important not mentioned in this video is the fact that he is never the only main vocalist and doesn't have to carry his group vocally unlike others on this list
i saw dreamcatcher live and it was their final concert of their worldtour and i could notice siyeon struggling quite a bit, she was tired and exhausted yet she still wouldnt miss a single highnote. she has massively improved since this video and i hope that she keeps improving!
Minnie’s style is so beautiful, and I feel like it compliments Soyeon’s sound in a very unique way. Everyone in (G)-idle needs more training, but Soyeon uses them cleverly to achieve a very very distinctive sound and I feel like they cover quite a spectrum and that masks their faults very well. I hope they can keep growing together, because they definitely have good instincts.
The fact that everyone mentioned is from the new gen... Makes me question if kpop will have any good vocalist left in the future. Now i need therapy
Haechan’s been in the industry for nearly eight years now. He’s not new gen
i think that most of these problems are bcs these companies push their trainees to learn to quickly and hit some highnotes. If they fix their training mindset they could make way beter vocalists in 3 years which might mean they need to relax with the 2 month training periods💀. Unless the trainee is already skilled enough before joining the company.
Look at Jongho, not saying he has no flaws but he is one if the best ones in 4th gen. He was already winning singing competitions as a kid and he still had a 5 years training period. Also Lily from nmixx, literal goat.
I really like your commentary on Heesung cause I agree that I think he has a good voice full of potential, so with like professional consistent training he could be really really great. I think of Ten whom I really love, was a pretty weak vocalist when he joined SM, but has really improved so much with training and is still improving. I feel like he is a true testament to what vocal training can do.
Now we need a part 2 for lead vocalists this time !
You really said the most generic statement about haechan, but didn’t really provide examples of where he’s lacking or what wasn’t good about the way he sings. All you did was compare him to other vocalists in his group…..
(Only commenting on ggs since I'm not a fan of the boy groups in this compilation.)
Hearing Lia sing, she uses too much throatiness and she's extremely nasal. She needs to open up and learn to balance her mix properly. She tends to raise her larynx a lot.
Siyeon is very tight within her mix and placement. She needs to base her belts within her core, which she usually bases them in her throat. She uses a lot of nasality as well. Might be a stylistic choice. But if she were to open up and use her powerful vibrato as a way to release tension, she'd do so much better.
Minnie definitely uses too much of a stylistic sound to be able to properly belt out healthy notes, with them typically coming out a lot tighter and weaker. If she were to engage her core a lot more, open up, and try phrasing, some of the higher belts would come out much easier for her. Then again, a lot of (G)I-DLE's songs aren't particularly vocally challenging for her so singing the way she does will not affect the overall outcome of the performance/song. I do believe Miyeon should also be in this compilation given that Miyeon tends to tighten her throat excessively and is often under the note. She also sounds like what struggle feels like.
And on that note, I do believe Rosé of BLACKPINK should be on here. While she's an amazing vocalist, her heavily stylistic approach to singing hinders her technique to such a degree where baby girl can hardly sing live after doing an hour long show, let alone 3 songs. She gets winded very fast due to the constant airflow coming out from her voice. If she were to take more vocal lessons, I think she could unlearn her stylistic singing and use a more natural tone that could benefit her.
her mix during wannabe era is way better compared to after that era, idk what wackass happend to her mix after wannabe era
rosé is amazing singer but she's definitely not an amazing vocalist
@@slaypa she is an amazing Vocalist. But not the best. Please don't speak on things if you're not a vocal professional. You do not know the technicalities that actually go into singing. The fact that she able to hold any note, let alone be able to have Agility and vocal support while using such an unnatural tone is proof that she is an amazing Vocalist.
@@CosmicWin are you a professional then? i learn vocal pedagogy, and she's not an amazing vocalist with her stylistic technique, what agility are you talking about?? her sloppy run??
@@CosmicWinagility? You lost your credibility right there
People trashing Chenle and Renjun to make Haechan look better are just pathetic.
but he IS better 😭so if haechan is being criticized it’s only FAIR that the 2 vocalists who are objectively weaker than him also get the same criticism
@@hyuckAH06how pathetic you can be to bring them unprovoked and camp under every comment that pointing out it's irrelevantness? it's nobody's problem that you can't read it mentions nct 127 and renjun and chenle aren't in 127.
yes they all need training but heachan was proberbly a more significant entry since he is the one who gets the most praise out of the three. secondly these videos are prolly too shorts to put 3 vocalists from the same group in. they might be in a pt 2. them being bad doesnt make heachan good@@hyuckAH06
@@hyuckAH06 it really shows your obsession when you have to mention them everytime Haechan is brought up
@@myraclesname don’t worry I’m sure when a part 2 IS made renjun and chenle will be on TOP considering how laughably weak their vocal technique is if YOU’RE kekekeing about Haechan being hated on (for no reason btw when renjun chenle kun are so much worse than him) it’s only fair for for delusional chenle fans to get a reality check that their bias is one of if not the weakest sm main vocalist
NMIXX vocal trainers should be hired in all kpop companies tbh
heeseung's voice has a jay park vibe to it kinda where it's like unrefined but nice to listen to
I love multiple idols on this list, but this video is so respectful and informative that I don't see why someone would get mad at it. These idols can get better, and in some cases they SHOULD due to their risky techniques, we all wish for them to have long careers
Im sorry but I know many vocal coaches that said that Siyeon's vocals are incredible and so underrated. Sure she sometimes makes mistakes but saying that she needs lessons isnt It
yes instead she is the vocal teacher😂
exactly...but hoping her throat is fine. is an asset
@@dayjimong hahaha for real
@@dayjimong it’s been 15 years of singing and 7 years of touring, she’d be like Yuju if her technique was that unhealthy! SuA had nodules, too, so they’re aware of the importance of vocal health-but Siyeon literally taught Yoohyeon technique, the cherry picked clips and overblown concern are pretty moronic at this point.
She is just not that great
I feel like there are too many filler members in 5+ member groups so many of them are left with insufficient training, on the other hand style is encouraged.
If I’ve learned anything on this channel: style without technique can’t do good
Not sure if this is a good comparison [I know nothing about being a vocalist + I can't sing myself] but Siyeon's vocals kind of remind me of Jongho's in the way they kinds of strain + rely on vibrato. Both, I think, have so much potential to become healthier + more powerful vocalists. If anyone who knows what they're talking about and can comment on on this, please respond. Thank you for the video, very interesting for a non-singer kpop fan!
These fake voices analysis been saying siyeon is going to lose her voice for 6 years now just admit you don't know how rock vocal techniques work and give it up
@soyeonvsveggies the only reason y'all think it's unhealthy is because your are comparing rock singing techniques to pop techniques and than think that because the way she sings is different than the mainstream it's bad it shows a lack of understanding of the Rock genre and the singing styles used in it
@soyeonvsveggies more proof of lack of understanding I didn't say her voice fits rock I said she uses a different singing techniques which is why kpop fans with their limited knowledge of the Rock genre can't comprehend why the way she sings is fine
@soyeonvsveggies it's healthy cause it doesn't damage her voice you should understand how that works and for propose if you don't listen to actual rock just say that the way she sings that note is a very common style choice especially for female leads in rock bands your comparing rock singing to kpop and they aren't done the same
@soyeonvsveggies her voice wasn't better it was different this is more lack of understanding of how vocal styles other than kpop work and of dreamcatcher's music she sings in a more traditionally kpop style in the early days of dreamcatcher and has slowly moved to a more rock sound you seem to be unable to realize there's more than one viable way to do something as broad as singing
@soyeonvsveggies the reason you're saying it unhealthy is because it sounds like strain but that's the thing almost all examples I've seen it's not I'm not saying she the best singer out there but the reality is because of the vocal techniques she uses which are common for that genre people assume it's unhealthy because they're not use to it
My problem is he uses the same video examples in every video he does. I’ve seen the same Heeseung examples since he started talking about him 3 years ago. He doesn’t let artists grow.
He also holds artists to high standards in bad circumstances, like encore stages (awful example of good vocals). Take Heeseung’s last three recording sessions instead of encore stages from two years ago. His opinions are arguably unfair to an artist’s actual capabilities