I just can speak about my experience as a French expat in the US. When I moved there I had studied English for ten years and was still struggling to understand people in daily interactions and my conversation skills were still at a B1-B2 level. I decided to take online college courses and the first months have been terribly hard as I had to translate everything. It was time consuming and draining. I had to read and write a lot about many topics, so my skills improved significantly. I had decided that everything I would watch or read would be only in English with French subtitles first and then later in English. For a long time, I could understand only standard American English and struggled with anything else, but over the time I started to watch series/ videos with Australian, British, Scottish accents and my understanding improved even though it is still a little more difficult to understand. For speaking, it took me longer because the first years I was speaking English only with my husband. It is when I started to tutor students that actually I started to improve my speaking skills. The English grammar is not difficult but the pronunciation is. I have studied linguistics and remember that when I studied the English vowels my ear could not differentiate some of them although I had spent many years in the US. If someone is shy or unwilling to leave their confort zone, not open to learn or with poor grammar skills, it will limit considerably their ability to develop their fluency. I have known a Chinese lady in France who were barely able to get by after ten years in France because she was only socializing within her community while another was fluent in three years because she was talkative, curious and eager to learn French. The state of mind is key. 😊
I’ve seen the same thing as you’re describing, people living in a foreign country and failing to assimilate - at least through language, but I also know others, who are far more ambitious I believe immerse themselves in a language and learn it well. They took the opportunities freely handed them out n university reading groups and such activities, they actually took extra steps to learn both the written and spoken word. They still had accents, but they could intellectualize. It takes effort and many do not want to put in the extra effort is what I think it comes down to- that and who you or they might surround themselves with- people who value or don’t value clarity of language or not.
Just commenting to help boost the video and channel as i feel they provide great information. I don't have anything material to add to what you said. However, i do feel that listening can be a valuable addition to self or guided study. I agree that listening isn't going to help you learn but personally, I found listening to french radio (rtl2 and rfi) helpful in training my ears to recognize words in a sentence and provide humility. I am not and was not nearly as proficient in understanding French as 6 years of high school and college would have lead me to believe.
As a relatively new "serious" poster to TH-cam, I'm starting to learn that the users of TH-cam belong to two groups: the kind and reasonable users... and the avid haters. 😀 Haha! You Sir, belong to the first group. Thanks for the comment. Indeed, listening can have a positive effect. I myself watch Heidi in German to train my ear. But I wouldn't say it teaches me anything new. Thanks again !
When I go to France there is no magic that happens, I don’t end up with all this new language, no huges advances. Even after my immersions stays, I usually come away disapointed that I can’t understand the waiter or other simple interactions. I see that living there I could be quite isolated. I would need a circle of people/teachers willing to put time into me learning the language, which I don’t think is very realistic. Not forgetting, heaven forbid, that I would actually have to put in more time and effort. Glad you pointed out the difficulties in using radio programs and films to learn a language. Seems to be the go to advice of many teachers, butI find them sub-optimal. Don’t even get me started on how the French don’t believe in sub-titles, or being accurate when they do.
Thanks for sharing ! Yes, I never understood this insistence on listening to the radio that certain teachers encourage. I'm very unconvinced about the immersion technique, at a school or in reality. I would love to hear more direct experience from people who have tried. I love the word "sub optimal" : )
I have direct experience of living abroad expecting to pick up the language. 3 years in, I could understand a lot but still couldn’t put a sentence together. Now I study French every day (different language & country) for 1 hour and a half and have 3 classes per week. I can speak and understand to intermediate level, but my grammar is very bad. I can’t use the formulae that I’ve studied when I’m speaking; the words just seem to arise in my head. I’m glad that I can speak but frustrated by the broken grammar.
I just can speak about my experience as a French expat in the US. When I moved there I had studied English for ten years and was still struggling to understand people in daily interactions and my conversation skills were still at a B1-B2 level. I decided to take online college courses and the first months have been terribly hard as I had to translate everything. It was time consuming and draining. I had to read and write a lot about many topics, so my skills improved significantly. I had decided that everything I would watch or read would be only in English with French subtitles first and then later in English. For a long time, I could understand only standard American English and struggled with anything else, but over the time I started to watch series/ videos with Australian, British, Scottish accents and my understanding improved even though it is still a little more difficult to understand. For speaking, it took me longer because the first years I was speaking English only with my husband. It is when I started to tutor students that actually I started to improve my speaking skills. The English grammar is not difficult but the pronunciation is. I have studied linguistics and remember that when I studied the English vowels my ear could not differentiate some of them although I had spent many years in the US. If someone is shy or unwilling to leave their confort zone, not open to learn or with poor grammar skills, it will limit considerably their ability to develop their fluency. I have known a Chinese lady in France who were barely able to get by after ten years in France because she was only socializing within her community while another was fluent in three years because she was talkative, curious and eager to learn French. The state of mind is key. 😊
Thanks for your comment ! Very interesting to read your story. Easy answers never work !
I’ve seen the same thing as you’re describing, people living in a foreign country and failing to assimilate - at least through language, but I also know others, who are far more ambitious I believe immerse themselves in a language and learn it well. They took the opportunities freely handed them out n university reading groups and such activities, they actually took extra steps to learn both the written and spoken word. They still had accents, but they could intellectualize. It takes effort and many do not want to put in the extra effort is what I think it comes down to- that and who you or they might surround themselves with- people who value or don’t value clarity of language or not.
Thanks for sharing! Yes, it probably depends on having the right attitude.
Just commenting to help boost the video and channel as i feel they provide great information. I don't have anything material to add to what you said. However, i do feel that listening can be a valuable addition to self or guided study. I agree that listening isn't going to help you learn but personally, I found listening to french radio (rtl2 and rfi) helpful in training my ears to recognize words in a sentence and provide humility. I am not and was not nearly as proficient in understanding French as 6 years of high school and college would have lead me to believe.
As a relatively new "serious" poster to TH-cam, I'm starting to learn that the users of TH-cam belong to two groups: the kind and reasonable users... and the avid haters. 😀 Haha! You Sir, belong to the first group. Thanks for the comment. Indeed, listening can have a positive effect. I myself watch Heidi in German to train my ear. But I wouldn't say it teaches me anything new. Thanks again !
When I go to France there is no magic that happens, I don’t end up with all this new language, no huges advances. Even after my immersions stays, I usually come away disapointed that I can’t understand the waiter or other simple interactions. I see that living there I could be quite isolated. I would need a circle of people/teachers willing to put time into me learning the language, which I don’t think is very realistic. Not forgetting, heaven forbid, that I would actually have to put in more time and effort.
Glad you pointed out the difficulties in using radio programs and films to learn a language. Seems to be the go to advice of many teachers, butI find them sub-optimal. Don’t even get me started on how the French don’t believe in sub-titles, or being accurate when they do.
Thanks for sharing ! Yes, I never understood this insistence on listening to the radio that certain teachers encourage. I'm very unconvinced about the immersion technique, at a school or in reality. I would love to hear more direct experience from people who have tried. I love the word "sub optimal" : )
I have direct experience of living abroad expecting to pick up the language. 3 years in, I could understand a lot but still couldn’t put a sentence together. Now I study French every day (different language & country) for 1 hour and a half and have 3 classes per week. I can speak and understand to intermediate level, but my grammar is very bad. I can’t use the formulae that I’ve studied when I’m speaking; the words just seem to arise in my head. I’m glad that I can speak but frustrated by the broken grammar.
@@tendermoon4946 oh dear! If I may, with 3 classes a week your grammar should be spot on. Perhaps it's the way it was explained to you?