I understand the perspective presented in the video. However, I believe it is important to distinguish between students , tutors and professional teachers . It is implicit that if a student seeks a more structured class, they should book a session with a "professional teacher" as defined by iTalki. Community tutors are generally seen as guides in language learning, offering a more unstructured format where most learning happens spontaneously. I strongly advocate for students to engage with both a professional teacher and a community tutor: the former for consistent, structured classes that target weaknesses, and the latter for practicing what has been learned. If a student books a session with a tutor or teacher and then is expected to lead the entire conversation, it raises the question of the value of such a service. One would expect that the tutor or teacher has a plan tailored for new students based on their skill level. While I do not expect a teacher or tutor to act as entertainment, it is clear that some iTalki users might hold this expectation. The issue described is not exclusive to iTalki but rather reflects a broader misunderstanding of what language learning entails. Misguided expectations, often fueled by unrealistic portrayals from "TH-cam polyglots," lead to users approaching iTalki without a clear understanding of the language acquisition process. A significant problem with iTalki is the lack of consistency, as people frequently start and stop classes. In summary, students who perceive "iTalki as the problem" seem to misunderstand the actual issue. iTalki is a platform that connects learners with teachers while ensuring financial security for both parties (well it more or less facilitates the transaction) . Someone blaming italki for not making them fluent is akin to blaming my sneakers for not making me run faster. If students attend numerous lessons without substantial progress, it is ultimately their responsibility, much like in school, where learning continues outside class hours through homework and personal interest. Blaming iTalki for a lack of fluency without outside effort is analogous to blaming a school for not making one fluent in Italian without studying beyond class hours. This is why Option A was preferred. Providing students with numerous books and resources is futile if they do not utilize them. Truly committed students will seek additional resources during their iTalki calls, as I have done with my teacher. We review homework and progress together. Scheduling calls to converse in the target language constitutes learning, as comprehensive input is a crucial aspect of language acquisition. I do not understand why the value of such practice is diminished. Practicing moves learners from A2 to B1 levels. As a community tutor, people often book sessions for small chats. Those looking to create lesson plans should opt for the "professional teacher" category. Regarding the algorithm and visibility on iTalki, while I lack back-end data, I have found many long-time tutors still appearing when searching for community tutors. Bookings typically depend on availability, offerings, and the number of lessons conducted. For those offering widely spoken languages, competition is significant, especially if one is not a native speaker or lacks certification to teach it as a second language. Regarding reviews, many users, myself included, tend to disregard them due to inflated positive feedback. Conversely, significantly negative reviews can impact visibility on the platform. Sorry for the long comment I wanted to address everything overall thanks for the insight
Watch our learners of English! It is a language that has a level of subtlety you do not measure. When a speaker of English starts a sentence with "I understand" or "I see what you mean", it actually means "I'm about to disagree entirely with what you said". 😀 This response reminds me a bit of the scene in Blackadder, the Famous Blue Stone of Galveston. We are not sure what is actually said in terms of information. th-cam.com/video/kHWF50pXkEw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=R4Sh8y6Sxd5n_TaZ I'm not sure why you "advocate" these things you describe or in whose name you speak. It reads a bit like a press release if I'm honest. Do you work for Italki? (It's nothing to be ashamed of if you do. I mean, we're all friends here!) In fact, I'm not sure why you defend the exact 180 degree view even though I explained that students are not interested in plans or structured lessons. I don't quite understand the rest of these arguments either. I find it all very "Galvestonish" and a bit disturbing in that I don't understand if you have a personal or professional interest in this.
@@ouicommunicate I have an honest question: where does the statement "I see what you mean" imply that I will fully agree with your position throughout my post? I have, in fact, agreed with some of your points. If you had thoroughly read my responses instead of focusing on a niche analogy, you might have understood why I prefaced my statement with "I understand." It appears that you have disregarded many of the points I raised. I clearly stated the difference between a professional teacher and a community tutor, and I proceeded to outline what a student might expect from each. Additionally, I noted that you seem to be blaming the provider of the service instead of addressing the core issue, which is the inappropriate use of the service by some users. This issue is not necessarily an iTalki-specific problem. Furthermore, you did not address my point about community tutors. It makes sense that individuals seeking unstructured lessons would choose a community tutor to focus on conversational practice. By not responding to this, I assume you were, in fact, a community tutor. It would be unreasonable for a professional tutor to lack a structured plan for their students and expect them to create it on their own. Your inquiry about whether my interest is personal or professional is irrelevant to my refutation of your points. As an avid language learner for ten years, I felt compelled to share my opinion. To be frank, you come across as cynical and somewhat egotistical, as though you alone can identify the issue and know the solution. This is disingenuous, especially when you claim that "speaking" is not "practicing," when in fact, speaking is a form of practice. Although it should not be the sole method of practice, iTalki markets itself as a service to help people with this aspect of language learning. If you wanted to provide a different service, you could have created a separate class with a description stating it was a more structured course for consistent learners, as any experienced iTalki user would know.
@@CrimsonSun-n3i In terms if hierarchy in my video, I'm not concerned with community tutors. That's a point of detail. The main point is that if you're a language learner I say "why not?" and if you're a tutor I don't recommend it because your success is pre-determined. I feel that it's important to know that Italki is the product and remains the brand. At this point, it's like arguing whether Volkswagen make good cars or not. It's good that we have different views. I just found it suspicious that you were so adamant to disprove mine and I still think the tone sounds a bit like a press release, which is why I would like to know if you are affiliated with them.
@@ouicommunicate I apologize if my previous comments came across as aggressive or implied any underlying motivation. I am not affiliated with iTalki; I am simply a language learner with a deep interest in language acquisition. Also, I apologize for the overly formal tone-I tend to write this way to avoid coming off as aggressive and to ensure my points are clear without seeming targeted. I understand how it might seem overly formal, like a press release or a public relations statement. In your video, you mentioned that some of your students felt they were not learning and seemed to suggest that iTalki was to blame. I agree that iTalki can be inconsistent and unreliable as a source of income, which is a common challenge for those providing their own services and building a clientele. You correctly noted that iTalki is a brand that helps build a clientele because its name attracts an audience. Unfortunately, like many language learning sites, iTalki often promotes "new" ideals that may be more appealing in appearance than in substance, leading to unrealistic expectations among clients. I wanted to focus on the aspects of the video related to language learning since it was not primarily about financial security. iTalki does not enforce a curriculum or heavily restrict teaching methods, which has both advantages and disadvantages. When you mentioned that some students have unrealistic expectations about what they will gain from a class, I wanted to emphasize that this issue is not exclusive to iTalki. For example, someone looking to lose weight might go to the gym and hire a fitness instructor, but without maintaining healthy habits outside the gym, they will not see results. iTalki is like a gym with a low entry cost, attracting many newcomers who might not stay for the long haul. This could explain why iTalki frequently introduces new features and teachers to keep attracting fresh users. This business strategy may not be geared towards serious language learners or dedicated teachers, which can present challenges. If a student has taken numerous classes without progress, they need to reflect on their study habits and genuine desire to learn the language. Unfortunately, many people dislike the "boring" parts of learning, such as studying and consistency. Even with your own classes on your website, you will encounter individuals with unrealistic expectations who expect to be entertained rather than engage in hard work and dedication. When faced with reality, they may blame the teacher instead of addressing their own expectations, which might explain why some students have left. iTalki is not equipped to properly address this issue, so teachers who receive bad reviews can be unfairly penalized by the algorithm, even if they have done nothing wrong. iTalki can sometimes feel like a popularity contest, where tutors who cater to a more "fun and easy" approach to language learning are boosted the most. I want to reiterate that I agree with many of your points. I believe iTalki is beneficial for learners who understand how to approach language learning and can differentiate between tutors. Unfortunately, this may represent a small percentage of users.
Goodness Italki. You need to tone it down a bit. The lady doth protest too much methinks. Your agressive response to Chris has made me sure that I will never interact with Italki. Not as a student or a tutor.
Salut! Not sure why the algorithm recommended your video, but I’ve perused a few of your videos now and appreciate your thoughts on language learning and french specifically. Your comments about the uselessness of the platform to the user for anything other than (relatively) useless chatting is eye opening. I took several Italki lessons (en français) and always felt unsure of what, if anything I got out it. Never could quite put my finger on it, but you nailed the feeling I had.
Some really interesting points about Italki self-servingly wanting new tutors to be prioritised. But even more insightful was that Italki users are not learners. In addition to what you said these users reflect the common idea to "just talk"... so if a teacher asks for commitment or outside learning, the user will just find a teacher who will just talk and give pep talks that things will improve by pure chat.....
Yes, Italki might have changed things since but I doubt it. Minor details perhaps. Tutors are entertainers who talk for the sake of talking. Thanks for the comment.
Yeah I was confused here as well. I made a comment earlier talking about the differences between community tutor and professional teacher. If the guy is a community tutor it makes sense why no one is expecting a structured class.
I think the reason native English speakers would not book French lessons with a native English speaker is because they are looking for native French speakers to learn from. I don't think I've ever heard a native English speaker speak French without an accent.
Everyone has an accent! So, what level of purism are you aiming for? There's a significant difference between the accent in Marseille and the one in Paris, yet neither region is known for speaking the "cleanest" or "best" French. Then you have African French-from Morocco, Algeria, and beyond. Add Québécois French, often called "singing French," with its distinct accent, and let's not foregt Louisiana or Acadian French, which are nearly incomprehensible to many speakers from France. I would not recommend thinking like that as it's like insisting that only a Porsche can get you where you need to go while ignoring the fact that every car, no matter the brand, or condition, serves the same basic purpose. Just because someone does not speak with an accent does not mean they are good in teaching that language.
@@mybestideas1 it’s true that everyone has an accent but you know what the person is trying to say. They mean using phonemes, sentence structure, and patterns of speech that are borrowed directly from their native language. Not just a regional dialect of another native speaker. Sorta like the difference between creole and pidgin. I’m with you that understanding should be prioritized over sounding “right” but there is value in having native-like syntax. Being easier to understand and more relatable has advantages in communication. That being said, having a French teacher that speaks perfect French but has a notable French accent when speaking English likely means they wouldn’t know how to teach someone to reproduce the unique sounds of a foreign language anyway.
@@macalloway1 Most of us will end up having an accent, and the problem with accent is that even if you master it, and then it slips on some obscure point in a conversation it just sounds weird and the situation becomes ackward. I know this is the ultimate goal but the effort to get there is so immense that I'm not sure if it is worth it. But then, would you hire a native Quebequois or Acadian to teach you french?
I understand the perspective presented in the video. However, I believe it is important to distinguish between students , tutors and professional teachers . It is implicit that if a student seeks a more structured class, they should book a session with a "professional teacher" as defined by iTalki. Community tutors are generally seen as guides in language learning, offering a more unstructured format where most learning happens spontaneously.
I strongly advocate for students to engage with both a professional teacher and a community tutor: the former for consistent, structured classes that target weaknesses, and the latter for practicing what has been learned.
If a student books a session with a tutor or teacher and then is expected to lead the entire conversation, it raises the question of the value of such a service. One would expect that the tutor or teacher has a plan tailored for new students based on their skill level. While I do not expect a teacher or tutor to act as entertainment, it is clear that some iTalki users might hold this expectation.
The issue described is not exclusive to iTalki but rather reflects a broader misunderstanding of what language learning entails. Misguided expectations, often fueled by unrealistic portrayals from "TH-cam polyglots," lead to users approaching iTalki without a clear understanding of the language acquisition process. A significant problem with iTalki is the lack of consistency, as people frequently start and stop classes.
In summary, students who perceive "iTalki as the problem" seem to misunderstand the actual issue. iTalki is a platform that connects learners with teachers while ensuring financial security for both parties (well it more or less facilitates the transaction) . Someone blaming italki for not making them fluent is akin to blaming my sneakers for not making me run faster. If students attend numerous lessons without substantial progress, it is ultimately their responsibility, much like in school, where learning continues outside class hours through homework and personal interest. Blaming iTalki for a lack of fluency without outside effort is analogous to blaming a school for not making one fluent in Italian without studying beyond class hours.
This is why Option A was preferred. Providing students with numerous books and resources is futile if they do not utilize them. Truly committed students will seek additional resources during their iTalki calls, as I have done with my teacher. We review homework and progress together.
Scheduling calls to converse in the target language constitutes learning, as comprehensive input is a crucial aspect of language acquisition. I do not understand why the value of such practice is diminished. Practicing moves learners from A2 to B1 levels. As a community tutor, people often book sessions for small chats. Those looking to create lesson plans should opt for the "professional teacher" category.
Regarding the algorithm and visibility on iTalki, while I lack back-end data, I have found many long-time tutors still appearing when searching for community tutors. Bookings typically depend on availability, offerings, and the number of lessons conducted. For those offering widely spoken languages, competition is significant, especially if one is not a native speaker or lacks certification to teach it as a second language.
Regarding reviews, many users, myself included, tend to disregard them due to inflated positive feedback. Conversely, significantly negative reviews can impact visibility on the platform.
Sorry for the long comment I wanted to address everything overall thanks for the insight
Watch our learners of English! It is a language that has a level of subtlety you do not measure. When a speaker of English starts a sentence with "I understand" or "I see what you mean", it actually means "I'm about to disagree entirely with what you said". 😀 This response reminds me a bit of the scene in Blackadder, the Famous Blue Stone of Galveston. We are not sure what is actually said in terms of information. th-cam.com/video/kHWF50pXkEw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=R4Sh8y6Sxd5n_TaZ
I'm not sure why you "advocate" these things you describe or in whose name you speak. It reads a bit like a press release if I'm honest. Do you work for Italki? (It's nothing to be ashamed of if you do. I mean, we're all friends here!) In fact, I'm not sure why you defend the exact 180 degree view even though I explained that students are not interested in plans or structured lessons. I don't quite understand the rest of these arguments either. I find it all very "Galvestonish" and a bit disturbing in that I don't understand if you have a personal or professional interest in this.
@@ouicommunicate I have an honest question: where does the statement "I see what you mean" imply that I will fully agree with your position throughout my post? I have, in fact, agreed with some of your points. If you had thoroughly read my responses instead of focusing on a niche analogy, you might have understood why I prefaced my statement with "I understand."
It appears that you have disregarded many of the points I raised. I clearly stated the difference between a professional teacher and a community tutor, and I proceeded to outline what a student might expect from each. Additionally, I noted that you seem to be blaming the provider of the service instead of addressing the core issue, which is the inappropriate use of the service by some users. This issue is not necessarily an iTalki-specific problem.
Furthermore, you did not address my point about community tutors. It makes sense that individuals seeking unstructured lessons would choose a community tutor to focus on conversational practice. By not responding to this, I assume you were, in fact, a community tutor. It would be unreasonable for a professional tutor to lack a structured plan for their students and expect them to create it on their own.
Your inquiry about whether my interest is personal or professional is irrelevant to my refutation of your points. As an avid language learner for ten years, I felt compelled to share my opinion. To be frank, you come across as cynical and somewhat egotistical, as though you alone can identify the issue and know the solution. This is disingenuous, especially when you claim that "speaking" is not "practicing," when in fact, speaking is a form of practice. Although it should not be the sole method of practice, iTalki markets itself as a service to help people with this aspect of language learning.
If you wanted to provide a different service, you could have created a separate class with a description stating it was a more structured course for consistent learners, as any experienced iTalki user would know.
@@CrimsonSun-n3i In terms if hierarchy in my video, I'm not concerned with community tutors. That's a point of detail. The main point is that if you're a language learner I say "why not?" and if you're a tutor I don't recommend it because your success is pre-determined. I feel that it's important to know that Italki is the product and remains the brand. At this point, it's like arguing whether Volkswagen make good cars or not. It's good that we have different views. I just found it suspicious that you were so adamant to disprove mine and I still think the tone sounds a bit like a press release, which is why I would like to know if you are affiliated with them.
@@ouicommunicate I apologize if my previous comments came across as aggressive or implied any underlying motivation. I am not affiliated with iTalki; I am simply a language learner with a deep interest in language acquisition. Also, I apologize for the overly formal tone-I tend to write this way to avoid coming off as aggressive and to ensure my points are clear without seeming targeted. I understand how it might seem overly formal, like a press release or a public relations statement.
In your video, you mentioned that some of your students felt they were not learning and seemed to suggest that iTalki was to blame. I agree that iTalki can be inconsistent and unreliable as a source of income, which is a common challenge for those providing their own services and building a clientele. You correctly noted that iTalki is a brand that helps build a clientele because its name attracts an audience. Unfortunately, like many language learning sites, iTalki often promotes "new" ideals that may be more appealing in appearance than in substance, leading to unrealistic expectations among clients.
I wanted to focus on the aspects of the video related to language learning since it was not primarily about financial security. iTalki does not enforce a curriculum or heavily restrict teaching methods, which has both advantages and disadvantages. When you mentioned that some students have unrealistic expectations about what they will gain from a class, I wanted to emphasize that this issue is not exclusive to iTalki. For example, someone looking to lose weight might go to the gym and hire a fitness instructor, but without maintaining healthy habits outside the gym, they will not see results. iTalki is like a gym with a low entry cost, attracting many newcomers who might not stay for the long haul. This could explain why iTalki frequently introduces new features and teachers to keep attracting fresh users. This business strategy may not be geared towards serious language learners or dedicated teachers, which can present challenges.
If a student has taken numerous classes without progress, they need to reflect on their study habits and genuine desire to learn the language. Unfortunately, many people dislike the "boring" parts of learning, such as studying and consistency. Even with your own classes on your website, you will encounter individuals with unrealistic expectations who expect to be entertained rather than engage in hard work and dedication. When faced with reality, they may blame the teacher instead of addressing their own expectations, which might explain why some students have left. iTalki is not equipped to properly address this issue, so teachers who receive bad reviews can be unfairly penalized by the algorithm, even if they have done nothing wrong. iTalki can sometimes feel like a popularity contest, where tutors who cater to a more "fun and easy" approach to language learning are boosted the most. I want to reiterate that I agree with many of your points.
I believe iTalki is beneficial for learners who understand how to approach language learning and can differentiate between tutors. Unfortunately, this may represent a small percentage of users.
Goodness Italki. You need to tone it down a bit. The lady doth protest too much methinks. Your agressive response to Chris has made me sure that I will never interact with Italki. Not as a student or a tutor.
Salut! Not sure why the algorithm recommended your video, but I’ve perused a few of your videos now and appreciate your thoughts on language learning and french specifically. Your comments about the uselessness of the platform to the user for anything other than (relatively) useless chatting is eye opening. I took several Italki lessons (en français) and always felt unsure of what, if anything I got out it. Never could quite put my finger on it, but you nailed the feeling I had.
Really? That's nice of you! It took me close to 3000 classes to understand what was happening!!
I have a community tutor via iTalki who teaches me a new language. He TEACHES, he’s not a conversation partner.
Some really interesting points about Italki self-servingly wanting new tutors to be prioritised.
But even more insightful was that Italki users are not learners. In addition to what you said these users reflect the common idea to "just talk"... so if a teacher asks for commitment or outside learning, the user will just find a teacher who will just talk and give pep talks that things will improve by pure chat.....
Yes, Italki might have changed things since but I doubt it. Minor details perhaps. Tutors are entertainers who talk for the sake of talking. Thanks for the comment.
Chatting *is* learning. That’s the whole point of italki… it got me from A2 to B2
Indeed!
Yeah I was confused here as well. I made a comment earlier talking about the differences between community tutor and professional teacher. If the guy is a community tutor it makes sense why no one is expecting a structured class.
Hello . How to star taking lesson with you . Thanks
Thanks ! Claim your free trial now ! 😀 ouicommunicate.com/
I think the reason native English speakers would not book French lessons with a native English speaker is because they are looking for native French speakers to learn from. I don't think I've ever heard a native English speaker speak French without an accent.
That is probable !
Everyone has an accent! So, what level of purism are you aiming for? There's a significant difference between the accent in Marseille and the one in Paris, yet neither region is known for speaking the "cleanest" or "best" French.
Then you have African French-from Morocco, Algeria, and beyond. Add Québécois French, often called "singing French," with its distinct accent, and let's not foregt Louisiana or Acadian French, which are nearly incomprehensible to many speakers from France.
I would not recommend thinking like that as it's like insisting that only a Porsche can get you where you need to go while ignoring the fact that every car, no matter the brand, or condition, serves the same basic purpose. Just because someone does not speak with an accent does not mean they are good in teaching that language.
@@mybestideas1 it’s true that everyone has an accent but you know what the person is trying to say. They mean using phonemes, sentence structure, and patterns of speech that are borrowed directly from their native language. Not just a regional dialect of another native speaker. Sorta like the difference between creole and pidgin. I’m with you that understanding should be prioritized over sounding “right” but there is value in having native-like syntax. Being easier to understand and more relatable has advantages in communication. That being said, having a French teacher that speaks perfect French but has a notable French accent when speaking English likely means they wouldn’t know how to teach someone to reproduce the unique sounds of a foreign language anyway.
@@macalloway1 Most of us will end up having an accent, and the problem with accent is that even if you master it, and then it slips on some obscure point in a conversation it just sounds weird and the situation becomes ackward. I know this is the ultimate goal but the effort to get there is so immense that I'm not sure if it is worth it.
But then, would you hire a native Quebequois or Acadian to teach you french?