This crazy situation should be fixed

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 411

  • @danh6720
    @danh6720 หลายเดือนก่อน +178

    It makes USPSA uninteresting for the same reason D&D looks uninteresting.

    • @BenStoeger187
      @BenStoeger187  หลายเดือนก่อน +43

      Great way of putting it

    • @ripdoinksinamish
      @ripdoinksinamish หลายเดือนก่อน +22

      If you haven’t played DnD or other tabletop games definitely give it a go. There’s a lot of ways to play so it’s likely you will find something to enjoy. Definitely isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, though.

    • @Pappy7064
      @Pappy7064 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      @@ripdoinksinamish I'd rather spend my time dating women then play DnD. But hey to each their own.

    • @The_Disaster_Box
      @The_Disaster_Box หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      D&D players hate rules lawyers to.

    • @The_Disaster_Box
      @The_Disaster_Box หลายเดือนก่อน +40

      @@Pappy7064every time I hear someone say that, I’m 90% sure they never done ether one.

  • @amosmoses9247
    @amosmoses9247 หลายเดือนก่อน +260

    If it was actually a safety issue and the RO knew what was going to happen, and didnt stop the action, then the RO is negligent and that needs to be addressed.

    • @NDcompetitiveshooter
      @NDcompetitiveshooter หลายเดือนก่อน +37

      Which, in reality, proves he knew deep down that it was not an unsafe act.

    • @tostado22
      @tostado22 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah that was a "oh I got you now, fucker" moment

    • @KSwanson-r7g
      @KSwanson-r7g หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      It seems that from the moment these two saw each other that day they were both ready to go to war over rule x8.3rt.whatever. Which is really unfortunate on for so many reasons.

  • @randalljeffs7272
    @randalljeffs7272 หลายเดือนก่อน +135

    Fifteen years ago at my first competition I showed up with my crappy gear and knowing no one. I had practiced for more than a year to be ready to shoot a match and not embarrass myself. (I now know I should have just started showing up as soon as I got into shooting.) I was nervous and didn’t really know range commands.
    The RO had me step up to the first shooting position and asked me if I “understood the course of fire.” I said yes and being nervous I looked down at my holster and patted my gun. I didn’t draw my gun or anything. The RO then tried to DQ me for touching the gun before I was told to “load and make ready.” Some of the other shooters were really nice and knew it was my first match. They knew that this RO was a jerk and told me to go get the match director. I went and got him, the match director overruled the DQ and I got to shoot the match.
    But if that jerk RO had got his way, I would have been DQd and probably never would have shot competition again. These anal ROs are a real danger to the future of the sport.

    • @Six_One_Six
      @Six_One_Six หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      If i were the match director, said RO would be told he's not welcome on the property. People who are intentionally toxic like that narcissist will ruin anything they touch.

    • @notice9218
      @notice9218 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Very common. Power corrupts, even the tiny amount an RO has.

    • @Six_One_Six
      @Six_One_Six หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@notice9218 damn...i generally dont like people, but when i show up to a match I try to make it so everyone wants to shoot my stage...I'll cheer anyone on. If someone's clearly new, i'll let them know what gets you DQ'd take extra time...what happens to the sport when nobody wants to show out?

    • @mrgoodkat8567
      @mrgoodkat8567 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      My question because i truly dont know, is if the ro saw he was drawing from appendix, why not turn or instruct the shooter to square up his body down range so he cant “flag or point” up range on the draw?

    • @ctrackthezer0
      @ctrackthezer0 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Why would touching the unloaded gun be a DQ why is that a rule? Sounds like the type of guy that get jumpy when someone points a gun at the camera in a TH-cam video. Schizophrenic behavior.

  • @not_that_jon_guy
    @not_that_jon_guy หลายเดือนก่อน +280

    that RO has been practicing to pull off a sub second "STHAP" all year.

    • @AlexanderSotelo
      @AlexanderSotelo หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@not_that_jon_guy
      💯

    • @mkozek5753
      @mkozek5753 หลายเดือนก่อน

      FUDD

  • @lewisshemery2585
    @lewisshemery2585 หลายเดือนก่อน +239

    Dude yelled, "Stop" so hard he ran out of breath.

    • @jonfeder
      @jonfeder หลายเดือนก่อน +33

      he sounds like he needed his blood pressure checked 50 pounds ago

    • @papabear2965
      @papabear2965 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      He definitely locks up his gun and ammo in separate places

    • @markanthonypar-wise1499
      @markanthonypar-wise1499 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      😭😂

    • @Saboteur_91
      @Saboteur_91 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@papabear2965 his wife’s boyfriend said it’s safer that way

    • @jgrunthaner
      @jgrunthaner หลายเดือนก่อน

      I’m sure someone said “i could see down the barrel”

  • @grzegorzzak1109
    @grzegorzzak1109 หลายเดือนก่อน +98

    As soon as competitions start being more about technicalities, than skills, they become pointless.

    • @jediknight1294
      @jediknight1294 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Any competition you need to know the rules, USPSA and IPSC the big problem is the rules SOUND technical and an authority but... Are actually incredibly open to interpretation.
      The problem is very few people are willing to pony up the 40$ match fee at a local and MAKE them go through the Arb.

  • @swiftaudi
    @swiftaudi หลายเดือนก่อน +108

    The range officer knew he was going to yell stop. And in that case he should have proactively told him I don’t want you doing it this way.

    • @kdworak4754
      @kdworak4754 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      This makes the most sense.

    • @mynamejef7963
      @mynamejef7963 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      Then he wouldn’t have got to yell stop and impose his power

  • @Maxter119
    @Maxter119 หลายเดือนก่อน +131

    I quit my local IDPA, because of an RO just like this guy. It got so bad that the club later got rid of IDPA.

    • @mkozek5753
      @mkozek5753 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      now I'm discouraged from even joining....

    • @asanti76
      @asanti76 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@mkozek5753just go don’t worry about this but I agree, I this was my first match and that RO DQ’d me…. I’d never come back

    • @Eric_from_Kansas
      @Eric_from_Kansas 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Pretty gay of the club to get rid of the whole program when they could have just gotten rid of a shit RO.

  • @FocusTripp
    @FocusTripp หลายเดือนก่อน +130

    Are we sure the RO just didn't want to follow him around on the stage? He sounded like he was about to die.

    • @_Art.Vandelay
      @_Art.Vandelay หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      Dude sounds like he gets out of breath getting out of bed

    • @BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw
      @BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hey! It's Hops butt buddy ❤

    • @prestigiouschili7911
      @prestigiouschili7911 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw🍑👈🏻

  • @wheelguns4wheelmen802
    @wheelguns4wheelmen802 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

    As a lawyer, I love it when someone whips out a rule cite and totally owns someone who is wrongly calling them out. But I could see why non-lawyers could be turned off by that. In any event, this was a bad call. It’s like calling 181 degree break. No way anyone can see 179 v 181 by any level of certainty. If it’s safe, I would not call it.

  • @just9911
    @just9911 หลายเดือนก่อน +45

    The RSO is just angry at the world because he can’t remember the last time he was able to look down and see his junk.

    • @mrstevemassa
      @mrstevemassa หลายเดือนก่อน

      Enough of the elder abuse Sonny.

    • @just9911
      @just9911 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@mrstevemassathat’s not elder abuse. It’s a statement about him being incredibly out of shape.

  • @blodus4521
    @blodus4521 หลายเดือนก่อน +87

    Some of the old guys just wait around to utter the phrase "you know what you did right?" at the slightest infraction.

    • @TheRedneckPreppy
      @TheRedneckPreppy หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I will *always* take the over on hearing that during a competition if someone gets DQ'ed.

    • @SilasWeber-oi2gb
      @SilasWeber-oi2gb หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Bruhhh I got that exact same line when some old fart DQ me

    • @MrNgMichael
      @MrNgMichael หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      It's the same BS when cops do that. Comes from a power trip moment.

    • @derrick11boutain
      @derrick11boutain หลายเดือนก่อน

      Always make them explain it to you. Even if you clearly know the reason. I want them to show me, not the other way around.

  • @TacticalConsiderations
    @TacticalConsiderations หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    Range Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudds

  • @chefmatt6299
    @chefmatt6299 หลายเดือนก่อน +95

    Stoeger for President of USPSA. MUSPSAGA

    • @felixdewinter3484
      @felixdewinter3484 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      MUSP SAGA sounds like a brand of jelly spread for toast

  • @MrPaglissi
    @MrPaglissi หลายเดือนก่อน +33

    The reality is, it’s hard to watch this video and not have the impression that this was a bated ambush and that the RO could not wait to DQ someone for it. The flash to bang between draw and DQ was immediate. He was waiting for it. Bad for the sport.

    • @vanniek71
      @vanniek71 หลายเดือนก่อน

      100% Unfortunately there are a few of these types out there.

  • @LFAnon
    @LFAnon หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    LOL this is why people think competition is gay
    great take from ben here

  • @mabutarif
    @mabutarif หลายเดือนก่อน +34

    That’s the issue. Many RSOs go to the range just to flex muscles and be jerks. That’s why I stopped going to competitions and hate going to many ranges.

  • @n0tthemessiah
    @n0tthemessiah หลายเดือนก่อน +33

    Had an experience with an RO like that at a state shooting range; he was just looking for reasons to flex his authority and scream people. I was testing a few different rounds with a rifle that I had just fit a new muzzle brake onto, wanted to make sure I could get a zero with weight on the barrel. I specifically asked and waited for the booth at the end of the range so there would only be someone to the right of me and no one on my left, just to minimize how much it might affect other shooters. I shot maybe one round per minute because I was trying to be extremely thorough and meticulous about my positioning, technique, etc. I got a couple of rounds off before the dude next to me asks the RO for help with his rifle.
    So RO is fiddling with this dude's gun 5 feet away and after a minute or so I send off a round -- he immediately walks to my booth, gets right in my face and yells "Can't you fucking wait!? Can you not shoot for five fucking minutes?!". He never said anything to me before, there isn't any range rule about not shooting if an RO is in the booth next to you, and it was a hot range with at least a dozen other people still shooting. I didn't even say anything to him, I just started getting my shit together and left as fast as I could.
    Not a great look when someone with a temper and looking to start shit with anyone at a moment's notice is also an authority figure carrying a gun.

  • @nchintalapani
    @nchintalapani หลายเดือนก่อน +27

    The rules are meant to foster a safe environment, the DQ is unnecessary. The dude was facing downrange and no safety rules were broken. I have seen such R.O's go on a power trip and
    I have had most RO's advise me on drawing within rules while appendix carrying before the buzzer goes off. To those who taught me and advised me, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.These pedantic rules are a buzz kill for most newbies.

    • @williamcooper2496
      @williamcooper2496 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Spot on... That's why I'll never be a USPSA "newbie." I have zero interest in dealing with B.S.

  • @Proton_Decay
    @Proton_Decay หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    It needs to be said out loud when debating what rules should be (your "zoom-out" is much more than an opinion!): The USPSA is a 501(c)3 non-profit, the range is most likely also a non-profit. Per their non-profit charters, their literal reason for existing is to educate the public about and to encourage participation in shooting sports. That's the north star -- any "safety" rules where the RO literally stands by waiting for you to act unsafely works against that north star, so either the rule is broken or the RO is broken.
    Imagine in a televised NFL game, the referees all waited and watched as a team prepared for something they knew to be unsafe, and waited for them to execute before calling it out to issue a penalty, it would be a PR shit-storm.

  • @BlackSheepPractical
    @BlackSheepPractical หลายเดือนก่อน +78

    I literally hate the RO’s voice

    • @Thatguy11351
      @Thatguy11351 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      Especially when he says “unload and show clear.” 😂

    • @n0tthemessiah
      @n0tthemessiah หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      @@Thatguy11351 You can practically hear the chamber to his second stomach halfway through the sentence

    • @steve4462
      @steve4462 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Yup. His tone sounded like he was looking forward to DQing this guy.

  • @kechme
    @kechme หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    Great video. Seems to me that the 180 rule is an important rule but why are there so many 180 trap stages? Why plan a stage that makes me shoot at 178 degrees? I’m not a fan of those stages.

    • @echosierra7556
      @echosierra7556 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      …and the rules state not to create “180 traps”

  • @n4d3m4n
    @n4d3m4n หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    If this is how all USPSA is ruled, Then having a slight forward cant on a 3:00 holster should also DQ you for just drawing down range. The gun directly out of the holster is still slightly breaking the 180 in the exact same way as an appendix holster to the left.

    • @JoshsGameClub
      @JoshsGameClub หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Which is why the exception is made in the rules. There's a similar rule and exception in IDPA, which I shot for a while. It makes allowance for the draw stroke.
      RO was dildough.

    • @henrylui6239
      @henrylui6239 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes, we the people overseas DQ those who set their holster like this too😂
      And we don’t allow concealed carry holster.
      The holster cant policy was setup for fair and safety to make sure no one is drawing unsafe or having huge advantage by setting his muzzle already pointing the target from the holster.

    • @pa3gungal
      @pa3gungal หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      This is not how USPSA is ruled. The RO was in the wrong. As with all DQs, in this case the match director was called and they overturned the DQ. The video looks bad, but this was a case of a dickhead RO not knowing the rules and the escalation process worked.

  • @mousemx1534
    @mousemx1534 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    That RO makes me embarrassed that I’m an RO.

  • @mattrognstad
    @mattrognstad หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Two bits I'd add:
    1. An important aspect of this is that Troy (head boss of ROs) came up with this rule interpretation and pushed it on ROs at major matches, even though it is against the plain language of the rule, which is clearly talking about starts where you are facing an unsafe direction. That obviously wasn't the case here.
    2. When I was protesting USPSA, so many people talked about the rule book as though it is a godsend and essential to good matches. It actually seems to get you crap like this when the DNROI and some ROs feel empowered to bend the rules to mean whatever they want

    • @jediknight1294
      @jediknight1294 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'm fairly sure Troy isn't a native English speaker or he just genuinely has a profound learning disability because some of his interpretations are just crackpipe.

  • @Osprey1994
    @Osprey1994 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Just watched a video on this rule a few days ago, and it's really terribly penned.
    Agree with Ben 100%. I also really can't stress that the rule seems terribly written, and it either should be repealed or rewritten in a way that prevents people from being DQ'd off the draw for an absolute nothingburger.

  • @jpablos80
    @jpablos80 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Kind of the same is currently happening in IPSC in Argentina. At least in the region I used to shoot at. DISGUSTING. Thanks for bringing it up bro. 👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻

  • @Jesse-xp4lf
    @Jesse-xp4lf หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    Anyone else using Ben’s targets on the wall for dry fire practice? 😆

    • @kdworak4754
      @kdworak4754 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      If you're not you're wrong

    • @Realandrewmccall
      @Realandrewmccall หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Right here 😅

    • @Downfal1
      @Downfal1 หลายเดือนก่อน

      4 times a week 200-300 rounds a session.

  • @kylehill4437
    @kylehill4437 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    I agree this is ridiculous, the RO shouldve been proactive and reasonable about it, if he's truly concerned about safety, then help contribute to safety. Rules should make things easier for the end user, not make it more difficult.

  • @lazaruswws
    @lazaruswws หลายเดือนก่อน +28

    Range Officer just jealous because he too fat to carry appendix.
    Can the RO actually see where the weapon is pointed from his position behind the shooter? Seems like he made the decision to call it before he saw it.

  • @JoshuaE-BiblePatriot
    @JoshuaE-BiblePatriot หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    lol guy turned around and knew the code already. Wild. Wild

  • @Bane_Diesel
    @Bane_Diesel หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I remember as a brand new uspsa shooter the RO asked me "shooter are you sure you're ready?" My optic cover was still on. After I put on during the rain.

  • @abolishtheatfandrepealthenfa
    @abolishtheatfandrepealthenfa หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    It's honestly 100% my biggest apprehension about getting involved. Been debating it heavily for a year.

    • @davereloader8837
      @davereloader8837 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Find a chill local match and you won't regret it. Vast majority are super cool and helpful. I promise you that.

    • @abolishtheatfandrepealthenfa
      @abolishtheatfandrepealthenfa หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @davereloader8837 i appreciate this. I'll try to find something nearby

  • @DRFUZY1
    @DRFUZY1 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    “You don’t go train enough! You need to be training in competitive shooting matches.”
    Competitive shooting match RSOs:

  • @CorlosMazda
    @CorlosMazda หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    This is why I only recognize the first rule of gun safety. Which is to have fun

  • @SinistralRifleman
    @SinistralRifleman หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    This small sampling is of shitty attitude/rules enforcement is common to USPSA experience whenever I’ve tried participating in it.
    The biggest problems I’ve had at multigun and 2 gun events have been USPSA range officers applying their mindset and rules to a sport where they don’t apply.

    • @jediknight1294
      @jediknight1294 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It's very regional, iv had more shitty ro experiences with Idpa than USPSA, the old books 'failure to do right' and the subjective nature of so much of it allowed this kind of RO to royally fuck things for people.
      This is annother example of that RO using an inteoretation that defies the plain text of the rules because Troy thinks it's how English works.

  • @FluffPuffkotj
    @FluffPuffkotj หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    "Range rules are not safety rules". Most competition guys I have interacted with do not understand that. Which is why I don't attend these sort of events.

  • @SteveSnom
    @SteveSnom หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I RO under IPSC rules and that would not be a DQ. More importantly if there is a competitor who may be in a start position that is not consistent with the Course Briefing then the RO can't start until the competitor complies with the range brief. Likewise, if there is an equipment issue that may cause a rule breach that needs to be addressed before starting.. Just bad ROing on all levels

  • @swiftaudi
    @swiftaudi หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I shot appendix for two years. Some people just can’t get past appendix being a thing and then they make every situation unsafe in their own head. Fortunately none of those people ran my local club. But major marches or state matches were a 💩 show.

  • @roflchopter11
    @roflchopter11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    RO is probably also a cop AND an HOA board member.

    • @Tact_mo
      @Tact_mo 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

      He isn’t

  • @sillybears9865
    @sillybears9865 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    so the RO is standing literally on the 180, directly behind the guy where he almost 100% can't see his muzzle and calls a 180 on the draw over some holster rules voodoo?

  • @scotttyler9774
    @scotttyler9774 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Not a competitive shooter,but I've played competitive sports my entire life. The official who says " hey, you're getting close on this. I'll have to call it if you do it again " gets respect from everyone. It's the human factor. Maybe the previous official let it go. Telling the shooter " I see you are appendix draw. I'm going to the 180 rule strict" Problem solved before hand.

    • @joshuabaker5712
      @joshuabaker5712 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Can't do that per rules at a major match. At a local sure.

  • @SuspiciousGanymede
    @SuspiciousGanymede หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    Range rules and pushy ROs got me to quit going to the public range near me. Every time i went there were new rules that didn't stop people from being flagged or muzzled.
    Private ranges and private events are much more forgiving.

  • @LockTimeClarity
    @LockTimeClarity หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Good video Ben, you are 100% correct. Spot on. This is a discouragement to pistol shooters wanting to participate. Is appendix carry be permitted for USPSA? The RO set this shooter up.

  • @pitts3219
    @pitts3219 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I was considering shooting my first match with US PCA until I saw this footage. Forget it I don’t need the headache!

  • @modernsoul6590
    @modernsoul6590 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Uspsa is as fun or not based on the people who participate. I have been encouraged and felt very welcomed. I have also run into ro’s like the one in the video. There are also competitors who take it way too seriously and have melt downs when things don’t go their way.

  • @DanDan-cl7em
    @DanDan-cl7em หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I dig this Next chapter: Stoeger vs RSOs

  • @benardo8
    @benardo8 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Well said… I love USPSA … but this is exactly why young guys hate it… I came from the 3 gun world….and I watched guys in the early USPSA Multigun days…get DQed from putting an unloaded and flagged rifle into a bag improperly.

    • @byronbranch4645
      @byronbranch4645 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Lol. No way. That's crazy

    • @onpsxmember
      @onpsxmember หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Was that about the area they were in? Handling & loading area? Sounds weird.

    • @benardo8
      @benardo8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The guys that were DQed was for not having their muzzle of the rifle/shotgun directly facing berm when removing the firearm from the bag/cart at the safe table… the ROs were calling it “flagging the crowd”….but no one was flagged…and the rifle/shotgun was cleared/chamber flagged…this is annoying…yes…a safety issue…not even close…

    • @benardo8
      @benardo8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Not to mention…that when every competitor at the match walks up to to the stage with a rifle/shotgun in his magical gun bag…the muzzle of both firearms are pointed directly at your pelvis…but I guess a canvas gun bag is bullet proof…

  • @carlb86
    @carlb86 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I turned left on an facing uprange start at a level II. When they had an RO posted directly on the fault line just hoping to DQ people at that stage.
    After the unload and show clear the RO was actually critical of me and lamented, "you turned the wrong way."

  • @A4Blue-m7n
    @A4Blue-m7n หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    That clip makes me not want to do USPSA

  • @NeSPyS
    @NeSPyS หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I'm a casual match shooter. I might shoot 5-10 matches a year. Started in 2018, and while I have not been DQd (yet), I have witnessed similar situations twice in different states, one in IDPA, one in USPSA. Leaves a bad taste for months. Last one was a 180 "break" for a reload done in the shooters workspace while facing downrange. Absolute insanity. Also, the people that pull this crap are always fat. Just an observation.

  • @damnmillennials3913
    @damnmillennials3913 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    You should keep that *mini IPSC target in the background of every video. Makes for a great dry fire target when watching your videos

  • @ES_Competitive
    @ES_Competitive หลายเดือนก่อน

    The problem is USPSA’s definition of breaking the 180 if the front of the holster crosses on the draw. It should be where your muzzle is pointed.

  • @chrisdiceart
    @chrisdiceart หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    And this is why I've never shot IDPA - the FuD "Failure to do right" rule... hopefully USPSA isn't heading down this path. The goal should be to have fun and be safe. Rule breakage or not - the RO is a FUD A@@hole for teeing up the guy without saying anything just to DQ him.

    • @Gun_Dork
      @Gun_Dork หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      But… this is USPSA.

    • @JeromeJBecker
      @JeromeJBecker หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@Gun_Dork The main reason @chrisdiceart brought up The IDPA the "Failure To Do Right" rule is because it often gets applied by Range Officers subjectively instead of objective violations of the rules or safety. An example in USPSA would be Troy McManus, Range Officer Institute Director, having a unwritten rule that the top of the slide should be used as a reference when applying 180 break calls despite no where in the rulebook stating this to be a violation of the 180. Troy has given this unwritten rule speech to ROs at big matches and I bet the Range Officer in the video Stoeger discussed has this same mentality.
      If USPSA keeps going down the same road as IDPA with all its arguments over rules that weren't violated or DQing when it was not unsafe, then it will continue to push away shooters toward alternate shooting sports.

    • @keithkarp
      @keithkarp หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@JeromeJBeckerwhat other alternative shooting sports are out there that don’t have all this bs? I want to be safe and have fun. It’s videos like this that’s kept me from
      Even trying my hand.

    • @Gun_Dork
      @Gun_Dork หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@JeromeJBecker granted I’ve only been shooting IDPA for 3 years now, and have shot majors, SO a few majors, but I have never seen, heard, or given a Failure To Do Right. Maybe I’ve been fortunate in having great SOs, maybe I’ve been fortunate in being a balanced SO myself, which I feel is an extension of that home club. But back to your point, I’ve never seen it levied.

  • @rfbradley5
    @rfbradley5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This should never be a DQ situation but if so it should be a DQ for the RO because: If truly a safety issue and the RO observes the “unsafe” holster angle at start position yet continues to say “stand by” and hit the start beep, allowing the gun to draw at the “unsafe” angle, the RO is even more at fault than the unwitting shooter for whatever supposedly unsafe thing occurred.

  • @rikhansen4574
    @rikhansen4574 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love the honest critique

  • @ShootingSportsandAccesso-sd9li
    @ShootingSportsandAccesso-sd9li หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Next up: RO's to DQ anyone with a rearward canted holster.

    • @ShootingSportsandAccesso-sd9li
      @ShootingSportsandAccesso-sd9li หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Also: very few people had these safety concerns when folks like Nils fell on his face with a loaded handgun in a match but they'll bring it up over this stuff.

    • @jediknight1294
      @jediknight1294 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Given how dumb troys interpretation of this rule is.. I wouldn't be suprised.

  • @wcw2793
    @wcw2793 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I shot an indoor match years ago (when Production was still the division to shoot) where we all used our EDC guns and holsters. I was one of the few guys that had an edge since I actually practiced with my carry gun and my AIWB holster. It was a struggle bus for everyone else cause they’re used to shooting their Tanfos and Open guns. When a competitor was told to make ready, he made his DA/SA gun (SIG P228 I believe) and holstered it but forgot to hit the decocker. The RO had every opportunity to stop him and go, “hey man, don’t forget to hit your decocker.” He didn’t though. As soon as the guy holstered his gun, the RO went, “aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnddd you’re DQ’d.” It was a dick move and that was honestly the last time we had that type of match. This attitude from ROs is toxic and doesn’t need to be welcomed in USPSA. It does nothing but discourage people from coming back.

  • @fmatthew5876
    @fmatthew5876 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    This is why I don't do competitive shooting. I train for self defense and all these nerd rules are going build terrible habits.

  • @nektarioscatlett6264
    @nektarioscatlett6264 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It’s really funny because a lot of standard owb setups are pointed slightly back and technically break 180 to clear the holster

  • @JG_1998
    @JG_1998 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I've been planning to start competing in USPSA carry optics from appendix, but I'm gonna hold off until they figure this shit out.

    • @Anonusermf
      @Anonusermf หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Full send. Us appendix folks gotta keep pushing

  • @Olivehollow
    @Olivehollow หลายเดือนก่อน

    As someone who has a range at my house, If I came to a competition and this happened to me I would never come back. Would definitely be seen as a waste of my time. But I guess I just wouldn’t draw from Appendix at USPSA since the rules around it seem such a fine line.

  • @John-lz3hf
    @John-lz3hf หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I'm going to save my time and money and avoid the whole thing. Great response to leadership, though.

  • @xtreamar1550
    @xtreamar1550 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I was running a USPSA match this last Sunday and the RO told me to watch my 180 when I was re holstering . I wasn’t aware that I broke it but I said sorry.. no problem and that was it. We went on with our day. This guy is just being an asshole

  • @Inawoods
    @Inawoods หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    You've got to re name uspsa if you're not gonna allow actual Practical Shooting in the practical shooting association

  • @chrisd.7616
    @chrisd.7616 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    I’ll be totally honest I haven’t shot any matches in uspsa however I can’t see what the hell he did wrong. I don’t even see how he broke the 180.

    • @evey0259
      @evey0259 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I think it's because it was appendix. The rules are generally based on the expectation that the holster is forward facing. It's a badly written rule.

    • @rayr1642
      @rayr1642 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Take a look at the red boundaries by his feet. You can see that the rest of the firing lane is almost at 90 degrees to his right. Because he turned to the left with an appendix holster before the stage started, the orientation of his gun breaks the 180 degree rule even before it came out. If his holster had been on his right hip, the gun would not have broken the 180 plane.

  • @mdbm777
    @mdbm777 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    This was clearly a problem prior to the camera going live. The RO and shooter were prepared the have this fight

  • @Jake64823
    @Jake64823 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think this is the same RO that can be heard at 1:40 in Jay Beal’s Nats POV video. If I had to guess, he’s the one who caused the same stink at Nats this year.

  • @Bursar60
    @Bursar60 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Agree, fear of getting hung up on a myriad of rules has always kept me shy from wanting to go even though I'd outgrow like to

  • @SAR0311
    @SAR0311 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Having never shot a match or even observed a match but always curious I am one of the ones who needs to have that broken down and explained this way. It does not look very fun or inviting to see how quick and easy you can get dq'd for such a subtle and technical violation.

  • @ghostbear4417
    @ghostbear4417 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Lifetime Ban re-instated...

  • @bigandrich44
    @bigandrich44 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Our local club does stuff like this every match. 2-5 DQ’s per match, now they struggle to get more than 20 shooters.

  • @jeffreyacton2684
    @jeffreyacton2684 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I was at a match where a guy was almost booted from an idpa match for appendix carry. I thought idpa was all about practical shooting scenarios. Its no surprise I dont go to matches very often. Id rather shoot at home. I get we need rules but at the end of the day most of us just want to get together, shoot, and have a good time.

  • @DA-rm5bh
    @DA-rm5bh หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Can anything be taken from the video about how to FIND THE DOT?

  • @KartSmarter
    @KartSmarter หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    RO decided he was going to DQ the shooter before the draw even happened. If the reason we have the 180 rule is safety, why wait until the shooter does what you 100% know he’s about to do before you stop him.

  • @Bolo2028
    @Bolo2028 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I agree with your take on the matter.

  • @thinkingman6648
    @thinkingman6648 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Not a good optic. What about stage design considerations for all competitors?

  • @MSH4U
    @MSH4U หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Typical USPSA, if you’re going to allow appendix carry in competition, the start position should be described in the stage description, the same thing that they do with PCC. The RO should have had that discussion when the guy walked up.

  • @rolotomase1440
    @rolotomase1440 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The problem is RO's looking to DQ somebody vs. ensuring things are done safely. If the RO knew something unsafe was going to happen - he shouldn't have stopped it right there.

  • @derekparker3945
    @derekparker3945 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The fact that the "FBI cant" is accommodated for but not AIWB is pretty strange. Appendix is the most prevalent carry method for civilians and I really applaud anyone getting competition reps from there. IMO it's something that should be acceptable and accommodations made for it going forward in USPSA.

  • @JustinV911
    @JustinV911 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Stubble Ben looking good

  • @ds5503
    @ds5503 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Does Attorneys on Retainer have a USPSA Rules subscription plan?

  • @Sam-qn4ly
    @Sam-qn4ly 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thats the same stop you hear before unsealing and ancient evil from a tomb

  • @duganashley1337
    @duganashley1337 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    my first USPSA match was after a long time of only military training, CQB, light infantry raids, explosive breaching etc. from GWOT era. I DQd about 15 seconds into the first stage turning around to pick up a target I bypassed. Turns out, they dont like it when you go dynamic/deep in the USPSA stages. I have never heard so many people yelling "No!" in unison

    • @AlexanderSotelo
      @AlexanderSotelo หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Yeah dude. Your situation is not at all the same as what happened in this video. Your DQ was 💯.

    • @ripdoinksinamish
      @ripdoinksinamish หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      How about don’t point your gun in an unsafe direction when you’re doing a civilian competition? There’s no reason to be unsafe.

    • @swiftaudi
      @swiftaudi หลายเดือนก่อน

      Was it with an AK… AK… I bet wetter is better! Lol I still rock that song from time to time and I don’t even have an AK. Dugan is the original TH-cam gun daddy!

    • @duganashley1337
      @duganashley1337 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ripdoinksinamish It was safe, It just wasnt safe to USPSA standards. I wasnt familiar with the rules at the time. Military team CQB is way different, there is no crossover to USPSA.

    • @duganashley1337
      @duganashley1337 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@AlexanderSotelo No shit?

  • @Purple_Wayne
    @Purple_Wayne หลายเดือนก่อน

    That whole interaction makes me want to stay away from competitions altogether.

  • @AlexanderSotelo
    @AlexanderSotelo หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    What stands out to me is that the RO was ready to call “Stop,” and the shooter was prepared to challenge the DQ by citing the rules. This suggests there may have been prior discussion about this specific rule.
    That said, I think this is a questionable call. The rule, as written, clearly applies to situations where the shooter is facing uprange or moving uprange. Enforcing it in a way that contradicts the plain wording of the rule is unacceptable. If DNROI can interpret and enforce rules however he sees fit, then what’s the point of having written rules at all?

    • @jediknight1294
      @jediknight1294 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      That is why Troy needs to go. He's done this shit a LOT

  • @isaudy
    @isaudy หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Some people get high on power.

  • @thenricks5063
    @thenricks5063 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If this is what it’s like I don’t want to be involved, especially when it costs quite a bit of money just to think about getting involved.

  • @tallcip65
    @tallcip65 หลายเดือนก่อน

    USPCA competitions are crazy. I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near an event where random NARPs are running around shooting guns as fast as they can.

  • @skibidibobsir
    @skibidibobsir หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    It reminds me of the three step rule in NBA and how it famously wasn't enforced on star players like Michael Jordan.

  • @mickbrentar784
    @mickbrentar784 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’m so happy this doesn’t happen in the matches I typically attend.
    All rules aside, basic human interaction should be a requirement to be an RO.

  • @anele3426
    @anele3426 หลายเดือนก่อน

    My local ROs are cool guys. If stage has some sketchy spot they will point it out during the briefing and never setup traps like this man did

  • @southendsuspect
    @southendsuspect หลายเดือนก่อน

    RO said the shooter broke the 180 when the "trigger" came out of the holster. 😄

  • @oddsparrow8522
    @oddsparrow8522 หลายเดือนก่อน

    We have the same problem within IPSC. The saddest thing is that they watch eaches backs

  • @blazemontana1
    @blazemontana1 หลายเดือนก่อน

    lol. I shot a match with that guy today. Range master called it not a dq after the RO’s call and he got to finish the match.

  • @thelastmiddleclass2490
    @thelastmiddleclass2490 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Whos the guy who told him to stop?

  • @snarkvsog
    @snarkvsog หลายเดือนก่อน

    Unrelated question but what do you think about fins/thumb rests on pistols?
    I have been seeing more and more products that add thumb rests to pistols. To me it seems like adding more stuff to push and touch during shooting only adds more ways grip can be inconsistent.

  • @SAR0311
    @SAR0311 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Are the rules in place to enforce safety or are they in place to narrow down the playing field through disqualifications?

  • @jessco8950
    @jessco8950 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The fact this dude instantly knew what he did wrong and had the rule ready to site tells me he was either spoken to about this before or he knows he shouldn’t have done that.

  • @annonymouslibertairian9120
    @annonymouslibertairian9120 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I am 7 months into the sport. I take an RO training course in Febuary (and a Ben course in March).
    But with my limited knowledge, screw that RO. He should have warned him if he was about to do something he thought was unsafe. If that rule is enforced for safety.
    That guy was on a power trip and wanted to show off his knowledge. And if someone sites a rule, you take 30 seconds to look at the rule and then decide if it's correct or not. Put the egos away everyone.

    • @joshuabaker5712
      @joshuabaker5712 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And clearly you haven't read the rule book. The RO can not coach the shooter. This is the same as a loaded table start and you setting the gun down with the safety off. That's a DQ too. Neither instance can the RO say hey do this not that.

    • @annonymouslibertairian9120
      @annonymouslibertairian9120 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @joshuabaker5712 pointing out a potential rule violation is not coaching. the first single stack stage I did the RO said "hey, you need to have your safety on. Next time I am going to DQ you." Ok, no problem, now I know.
      To Ben's point... The rules are not supposed to be there to trip people up and get them DQ'd. There are safety concerns, then there are unfair advantages. But trying to catch people slipping and DQing them from a match they paid to participate in is going to chase people away from the sport. Especially if it's someone wanting to just flex their authority.
      And RO's should absolutely be telling people "you are about to violate this rule you might not be aware of, let me stop you before I have to DQ you.

    • @joshuabaker5712
      @joshuabaker5712 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @annonymouslibertairian9120 was that at a local match or a level 2 match though? Because it is 100% coaching and should have gotten you a DQ.

    • @annonymouslibertairian9120
      @annonymouslibertairian9120 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @joshuabaker5712 telling someone they are about to break a rule is not coaching. Telling them to change position to start because it's faster another way, or telling to keep their gun up between targets is coaching. Telling them "don't forget the hidden targets behind that barrel is coaching.
      Telling them "don't draw like that, it's against the the rules" is not coaching.