Brandon has said that one of the reasons Breaths can leave, and presumably the same reason Returned can leave, is because the nature of Endowment is to give things without strings. Put it another way, Breath focuses on Identity; who currently owns it, less than Connection. Stormlight is of Honor, and we know that Connection is considered Honor's "truest Surge". So Breaths, even Divine Breaths, have less Connection to Nalthis than most Investiture has to their respective planets.
I believe it is Adhesion that is Honours surge. From my understanding it relies heavily on Connection to function, but other surges that are not "of Honour" such as Cohesion and especially Tension (as it's a Bondsmith surge) are also probably highly involved with Connection.
@@Big3Taxi I realize Connection is a pretty core trait and other Surges will reference it in some way, but the impression I get from the books is that Adhesion is pretty much pure Connection. Brandon has also said that the Intent of Honor is an almost pure expression of Connection; bonds and oaths.
Damn, every time I had a snarky "well technically" comment to say you addressed it later, well played. Really high-quality channel, excited to see what other topics you have planned!
Holy shit, I cant believe i missed it, but Zahel Explaining Cognitive shadows in this book HAD to have been forshadowing Eshonais Shadow binding to the Chasmfiend!
Great video! One thing - Yumi isn't actually getting a "new" physical body, she's so invested she's able to reform Painter's body (in this case to match the sense of Self tied to her Spirit Web). It's mechanically similar to Vasher and Hoid being able to alter their appearance, why Siri can change her hair color and length, even with how healing works (Lopen regrowing his arm). Yumi is a being of pure investiture Connected to Painter's physical body, she just didn't realize she was doing it (Design hints at this too).
That's true! I was mostly referring to the very end of that book when they're both together. Before that with the body swapping it was totally just cognitive shadow swaps done by the spirits. Thank you for the comment!
@@jasonioan Ahhhh ok, looking back at the book quote you used, I gotcha. But wouldn't you assume her ability to manifest a physical body at the end is mechanically the same as her ability to manifest a physical body every day in her "simulation?" I'm not sure her Connection to Painter is much of a factor here. I'd thought that either: her Connection to the Spirits allowed for her to form a physical body to anchor to using the massive pool of Investiture that is her soul, her Connection to the Spirits allowed them to manifest her a physical body to anchor to, or that maybe since she's not tied to a specific Shard/some side effect of her technically being a Nightmare/Shade (a Cognitive Shadow loose in the Physical Realm) she can just ignore the usual Cognitive Shadow rules and simply form a body, no anchoring required (before you disregard the last option, check out this WoB: wob.coppermind.net/events/526-youtube-spoiler-stream-6/#e16402) I've been enjoying your videos! I really hope I'm not coming off as snobby here.
How the hell do you only have 4600 followers? You are the best absolute best king shit cause your channel that is the most entertaining and informative. Love it. Keep up the good work. Every video is awesome.
9:24 it's possible that the pull is avoidable within a system (or with shardic interference and contracts) but wouldn't the Heralds' returns to Braize count as "leaving" their planet, if not always with their intent.
I suppose it could count. I was operating under the assumption that "planet" can also mean "system" (A very Rosharan way to think of things, I know.) Raboniel says specifically that she can't leave the Rosharan System, so I assume the same would apply to Heralds.
Here’s my theory: what if the battle between Ambition, Odium, and Mercy damaged the Spiritual Realm around the Threnodite system in a way that blocks the pull of the Beyond for the people living there, and thus when they die, their souls are unable to pass on to the Beyond and when they lose their physical body they lose their Connection and Identity as a result, being corrupted by the leftover Investiture of Ambition. Maybe the shades are a combination of splinters of Ambition mixed with the souls of dead Threnodites. The Evil, though, is clearly something different, maybe a larger chunk of Investiture of Ambition that either obtained sentience on its own (like a Spren), or is itself a manifestation of the Cogntive Shadow of Uli Da (like Tanavast with the Stormfather)
This gets me wondering what happens to an Elantrian soul when they die. if anything different applies such as much more time to live without an anchor or potentially self anchoring in the cognitive realm.
I didnt know that Cognitive Shadows were subject to the same forces as the rest of Shadesmar. I wonder how this would effect Kelsier since he is literally worshipped by millions of Scadrians as a deity. Of course this would also take a long time to develop but i wonder what would happen to him after 1000 years and billions of people worshipping him.
Man, you do some good break downs. I agree with saze being able to return vin and ell, but i have a feeling vin would have been something thst would have interfeared with his vision. Cause with what ive seen so far (havnt read the w&t stuff yet,) and while i pray im wrong, i feel like kel might end up a baddy in the end. Which sadens me, as hes kinda my hero, despite the phyc flaws that seem to be sending him in that direction.
One thing you did kinda get wrong, at 2:51 you said a cognitive shadow passes onto the Spiritual, which is untrue. The soul passes onto the *Beyond*, which is notably very different than the spiritual. Some in the cosmere might say they're the same, but they would be wrong. Also, at 9:35 you mentioned that Zahel is the only shade we've seen off world, but you missed the Shade gun that Nazh shot, which somehow moved shades across the world.
Shades are weird. I talk about them at the end of the video. Zahel is the only confirmed re-bodied cognitive shadow we've seen leave their planetary system. Thank you for the comments!
Fantastic video. You've really upped your videos to another level recently and these last two have really helped me to properly contextualize cosmere concepts I had either ignored or had poor understanding of.
Just found the channel, you got my sub and I'm excited to see what you produce next ! One thing I would prefer in the way you present your info, is to maybe provide timestamps for people that don't want to be spoiled by meta info ? Like Words of Brandon stuff. I know it's part of the fandom, but sometimes I feel like super important stuff is revealed there that would make for great discoveries on our own by reading future content.
Incredible video! Got me very excited to re-read stormlight before 5 :) Severely underrated channel, keep it moving brother you have something special!
amazing job man, from the editing to the structure of the video, the places you shoot at, just impeccable! keep up the good work, you definitely deserve more subs and youll definitely get them eventually :D
I liked the insights about shades! I’m interested to see how things have changed by SP5 since we see at least one shade is still perfectly self aware with its own identity
Me too man... me too. My guess is that it has to do with that character being OLD and perhaps remembering the codified procedures to become a shade that he mentions in Secret History. Honestly as I was writing this comment I was reminded of the Reod. A change to the landscape and cognitive perceptions messed up the process to become and Elantrian, maybe the wound on the spiritual realm did something similar on Threnody?
Man what a cool backdrop! Looks like it must've been a lot of fun to film there! Though I'm just spitballing. There's no actual way I could know... 0_0
Not at all, friend and fellow TH-cam content creator @aidanpocock . There is no way an individual such as yourself could have been there assisting me making this video or any previous video for that matter
10:47 isn't Szeth another example of a cognitive shadow having a physical body without Shardic intervention? unless I'm misunderstanding how Nale nailed his soul back to his body(if you consider him a cognitive shadow that is)
That depends on whether or not we think Szeth is a cognitive Shadow. He was stapled into his body before much if any of his soul was able to be replaced. It's not confirmed that he's a cognitive shadow. But you're right, if he is one then he's another example of it being done without shardic intervention.
@@jasonioan He is probably a partial cognitive shadow, the 'fossilization' process of his soul not having happened, or only partially, before being stuck back into his body.
Thank you for the compliment! And yes, it is quite niche. That’s the side effect of making videos about Cosmere topics that I am interested in. I do plan to branch out into less niche Cosmere topics as time goes on.
@@jasonioan Yes, or branch into more -introduction- videos about Comsere? A kin to the Invicta video about Roshar, which got super popular. Or the Comsere explained by Wizards and Warriors, (but it has a lot of errors). Could be anything from what is investure, to what is the knights radients, what is Aether? etc.
Would people with power like mistborn world also have this tugging? They have some investature, so do they have it to a lesser extent? I don't believe we know. All I can Remember something like that being said in one of the storm light archive. That a radiant can't leave roshar, unless they hit the 5th ideal. I may be missing remembering. Great video cant wait tell the next one
Depends on the type of power, and what you want to do with it. The metalborn we have seen, feruchemists and I think a misting on roshar, seem to have been able to function just fine. This is probably due to the low "horsepower" they have. However, it is worth noting any and all awakeners, or awakened items have no issue leaving nalthis, due to the nature of endowment. We do not know what benefits the 5th oath does.
I'll start working on the next video next week :) I think that because allomancy is genetic, and is a smaller chunk of investiture attached to the spirit web, they have an easier time leaving. I see it kind of like breath where it's more tied to the individual than to the planet. Thank you for the comments as always, @silverdragon3332 !
It's the Utah State Capitol building. I got there a little after it opened on a Wednesday so it was pretty much empty. I had to do just a little compositing once or twice to remove some people from the top of the stairs.
We don't actually know for sure if the Beyond is the Spiritual Realm. It's a theory I can agree with, but we are not 100% sure if it's true and we'll never be. By the way, even if the two are not the same, a part of the person soul will keep existing forever in the Spiritual Realm, since eceryone has a spiritual aspect and it can't vanish, since there is no time in it. (This is how we can explain talking with the dead through spiritual connection). What I'm saying is: either the only part of you that remain is the one in the SR or there is also a part (the former cognitive shadow) that goes somewhere else. 2-Also, this also kinda solve the Zaheel conundrum: it doesn't matter if all of your investiture is replaced by the power of one Shard, all the versions of you, past and present, still exist in the SR. By a spiritual point of view, the soul is the same (I actuall don't know ho much Vasher knows about the Spiritual). That doesn't mean that your mind can access those other version of you in the SR (accessing to it in any form is usually performed through invested arts), just like people with dementia in the cosmere still have problems remember who they are. This doesn't solve the problem of cognitive decay/change in the Cognitive Shadows. However I think that my argument is revelant to explain the nightmares of Komashi: even after their body and mind have been turned into investiture and "processed", their spiritual aspect is intact and someone with a connection to them can give them back their shape.
So if the Cognitive Shadows are copies of the original soul, does that mean that the original goes to the spiritual realm while the copy remains? If copies keep dying and more are made, does that mean there could be multiple of the same soul in the beyond? Idk man, brain ghosts be wack 😂
I'm going off of the Sanderson and the audiobook pronunciation. That said, pronunciation of character names doesn't really matter and people can pronounce them however they want. :)
I feel like there’s room to argue that Szeth’s after image is his cognitive shadow sloppily stapled back to his restored physical self.
Brandon has said that one of the reasons Breaths can leave, and presumably the same reason Returned can leave, is because the nature of Endowment is to give things without strings. Put it another way, Breath focuses on Identity; who currently owns it, less than Connection. Stormlight is of Honor, and we know that Connection is considered Honor's "truest Surge". So Breaths, even Divine Breaths, have less Connection to Nalthis than most Investiture has to their respective planets.
I believe it is Adhesion that is Honours surge. From my understanding it relies heavily on Connection to function, but other surges that are not "of Honour" such as Cohesion and especially Tension (as it's a Bondsmith surge) are also probably highly involved with Connection.
@@Big3Taxi I realize Connection is a pretty core trait and other Surges will reference it in some way, but the impression I get from the books is that Adhesion is pretty much pure Connection.
Brandon has also said that the Intent of Honor is an almost pure expression of Connection; bonds and oaths.
Damn, every time I had a snarky "well technically" comment to say you addressed it later, well played. Really high-quality channel, excited to see what other topics you have planned!
Thank you! That means a lot from someone I recognize from many WoBs!
Yooo, it's LewsiTherinTelescope! Hu!
Holy shit, I cant believe i missed it, but Zahel Explaining Cognitive shadows in this book HAD to have been forshadowing Eshonais Shadow binding to the Chasmfiend!
Now that is one I haven't heard! That would be wild
As always, some of the best cosmere content on TH-cam.
I found this channel by chance, it seems cosmere content is getting more popular
Great video! One thing - Yumi isn't actually getting a "new" physical body, she's so invested she's able to reform Painter's body (in this case to match the sense of Self tied to her Spirit Web). It's mechanically similar to Vasher and Hoid being able to alter their appearance, why Siri can change her hair color and length, even with how healing works (Lopen regrowing his arm). Yumi is a being of pure investiture Connected to Painter's physical body, she just didn't realize she was doing it (Design hints at this too).
That's true! I was mostly referring to the very end of that book when they're both together. Before that with the body swapping it was totally just cognitive shadow swaps done by the spirits. Thank you for the comment!
@@jasonioan Ahhhh ok, looking back at the book quote you used, I gotcha. But wouldn't you assume her ability to manifest a physical body at the end is mechanically the same as her ability to manifest a physical body every day in her "simulation?" I'm not sure her Connection to Painter is much of a factor here. I'd thought that either: her Connection to the Spirits allowed for her to form a physical body to anchor to using the massive pool of Investiture that is her soul, her Connection to the Spirits allowed them to manifest her a physical body to anchor to, or that maybe since she's not tied to a specific Shard/some side effect of her technically being a Nightmare/Shade (a Cognitive Shadow loose in the Physical Realm) she can just ignore the usual Cognitive Shadow rules and simply form a body, no anchoring required (before you disregard the last option, check out this WoB: wob.coppermind.net/events/526-youtube-spoiler-stream-6/#e16402) I've been enjoying your videos! I really hope I'm not coming off as snobby here.
How the hell do you only have 4600 followers? You are the best absolute best king shit cause your channel that is the most entertaining and informative. Love it. Keep up the good work. Every video is awesome.
Thank you! I try my best
@ no shit you do. 🙌🙌🙌
Seriously this is such a good cosmere channel, i've been looking for one like this for ages!
Thank you! I’m glad you found me! 🎉
The first 30 seconds of this video were INSANE to me until I figured out you were talking about books.
Must have been hilarious!
Consistently some of the absolute best cosmere content out there!
Thank you so much!
9:24 it's possible that the pull is avoidable within a system (or with shardic interference and contracts) but wouldn't the Heralds' returns to Braize count as "leaving" their planet, if not always with their intent.
I suppose it could count. I was operating under the assumption that "planet" can also mean "system" (A very Rosharan way to think of things, I know.) Raboniel says specifically that she can't leave the Rosharan System, so I assume the same would apply to Heralds.
Here’s my theory: what if the battle between Ambition, Odium, and Mercy damaged the Spiritual Realm around the Threnodite system in a way that blocks the pull of the Beyond for the people living there, and thus when they die, their souls are unable to pass on to the Beyond and when they lose their physical body they lose their Connection and Identity as a result, being corrupted by the leftover Investiture of Ambition. Maybe the shades are a combination of splinters of Ambition mixed with the souls of dead Threnodites. The Evil, though, is clearly something different, maybe a larger chunk of Investiture of Ambition that either obtained sentience on its own (like a Spren), or is itself a manifestation of the Cogntive Shadow of Uli Da (like Tanavast with the Stormfather)
I'm doing my part!
This gets me wondering what happens to an Elantrian soul when they die. if anything different applies such as much more time to live without an anchor or potentially self anchoring in the cognitive realm.
What a day! New cosmere upload! Can’t get enough of this content mate it’s great!
I didnt know that Cognitive Shadows were subject to the same forces as the rest of Shadesmar. I wonder how this would effect Kelsier since he is literally worshipped by millions of Scadrians as a deity. Of course this would also take a long time to develop but i wonder what would happen to him after 1000 years and billions of people worshipping him.
Yo, nice! I didn't expect to see my old pixel art when watching this! haha.
Thank you for making it! It’s really cool!
How do you have so few subscribers? This is amazing!
I know right
Thank you so much! I think I just need to do a better job at getting the word out and hopefully the algorithm will start pushing my videos more.
Sick background, I love ur videos
Nice video! That Midjourney image of the Father machine is pretty amazing haha
Haha thanks. I think it's kinda fitting that the image of the father machine was AI generated.
Ah, finally. A true autist for the Cosmere with the vernacular to express it in video format without being silly or boring.
Peak content.
This is super high quality!!
Man, you do some good break downs. I agree with saze being able to return vin and ell, but i have a feeling vin would have been something thst would have interfeared with his vision. Cause with what ive seen so far (havnt read the w&t stuff yet,) and while i pray im wrong, i feel like kel might end up a baddy in the end. Which sadens me, as hes kinda my hero, despite the phyc flaws that seem to be sending him in that direction.
These videos are edited so well. Wow.
Thank you!
This is the content I was looking for. Thanks
One thing you did kinda get wrong, at 2:51 you said a cognitive shadow passes onto the Spiritual, which is untrue. The soul passes onto the *Beyond*, which is notably very different than the spiritual. Some in the cosmere might say they're the same, but they would be wrong. Also, at 9:35 you mentioned that Zahel is the only shade we've seen off world, but you missed the Shade gun that Nazh shot, which somehow moved shades across the world.
Shades are weird. I talk about them at the end of the video. Zahel is the only confirmed re-bodied cognitive shadow we've seen leave their planetary system. Thank you for the comments!
Fantastic video. You've really upped your videos to another level recently and these last two have really helped me to properly contextualize cosmere concepts I had either ignored or had poor understanding of.
Awesome friggin video
Just discovered your channel. Amazing videos, have a subscription 🙂
Thank you! I’m glad you found me, and liked what you saw!
Wow this must have taken forever to research! Nicely done.
10:19 - oh hello that’s my nightmare piece.👀🩵🩵
Just found the channel, you got my sub and I'm excited to see what you produce next !
One thing I would prefer in the way you present your info, is to maybe provide timestamps for people that don't want to be spoiled by meta info ? Like Words of Brandon stuff.
I know it's part of the fandom, but sometimes I feel like super important stuff is revealed there that would make for great discoveries on our own by reading future content.
Another absolute banger of a video! This is content to be proud of man. Keep up the awesome work 👍🏼
Incredible video! Got me very excited to re-read stormlight before 5 :)
Severely underrated channel, keep it moving brother you have something special!
Thanks a ton!
Keep it up this channel is awesome
Thanks!
Great video
Thanks!
Let’s goooooo new Jason Upload? My day of work just got better!
amazing job man, from the editing to the structure of the video, the places you shoot at, just impeccable! keep up the good work, you definitely deserve more subs and youll definitely get them eventually :D
Thank you so much! I have a lot of fun and put in a lot of work to make them, so I hope you’re right!
I liked the insights about shades! I’m interested to see how things have changed by SP5 since we see at least one shade is still perfectly self aware with its own identity
Me too man... me too. My guess is that it has to do with that character being OLD and perhaps remembering the codified procedures to become a shade that he mentions in Secret History. Honestly as I was writing this comment I was reminded of the Reod. A change to the landscape and cognitive perceptions messed up the process to become and Elantrian, maybe the wound on the spiritual realm did something similar on Threnody?
@@jasonioan interesting theory!
Amazing! Thanks again for the great explanation.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
Really great video!
Thank you!
Dude, you make some of the best cosmere content out there!
Wow, thanks!
Amazing video! With just this video, you've earned a new subscriber.
Awesome, thank you!
nice video!
Thank you!
The Fortnite Kelsier caught me off guard
According to Cremposting, Kelsier is a Fortnite original character that Brandon liked and wrote a book about.
Man what a cool backdrop! Looks like it must've been a lot of fun to film there! Though I'm just spitballing. There's no actual way I could know... 0_0
Not at all, friend and fellow TH-cam content creator @aidanpocock . There is no way an individual such as yourself could have been there assisting me making this video or any previous video for that matter
Maybe we should ask MediaPending what they think?
@@jasonioan I wouldn't know I definitely wasn't there either. I mean we weren't there... I mean.... What am I?... Who am I?
10:47 isn't Szeth another example of a cognitive shadow having a physical body without Shardic intervention? unless I'm misunderstanding how Nale nailed his soul back to his body(if you consider him a cognitive shadow that is)
That depends on whether or not we think Szeth is a cognitive Shadow. He was stapled into his body before much if any of his soul was able to be replaced. It's not confirmed that he's a cognitive shadow. But you're right, if he is one then he's another example of it being done without shardic intervention.
@@jasonioan He is probably a partial cognitive shadow, the 'fossilization' process of his soul not having happened, or only partially, before being stuck back into his body.
Quality video, such a niche subject tho.
Thank you for the compliment! And yes, it is quite niche. That’s the side effect of making videos about Cosmere topics that I am interested in. I do plan to branch out into less niche Cosmere topics as time goes on.
@@jasonioan Yes, or branch into more -introduction- videos about Comsere? A kin to the Invicta video about Roshar, which got super popular. Or the Comsere explained by Wizards and Warriors, (but it has a lot of errors).
Could be anything from what is investure, to what is the knights radients, what is Aether? etc.
Would people with power like mistborn world also have this tugging? They have some investature, so do they have it to a lesser extent? I don't believe we know. All I can Remember something like that being said in one of the storm light archive. That a radiant can't leave roshar, unless they hit the 5th ideal. I may be missing remembering.
Great video cant wait tell the next one
Depends on the type of power, and what you want to do with it. The metalborn we have seen, feruchemists and I think a misting on roshar, seem to have been able to function just fine. This is probably due to the low "horsepower" they have. However, it is worth noting any and all awakeners, or awakened items have no issue leaving nalthis, due to the nature of endowment. We do not know what benefits the 5th oath does.
I'll start working on the next video next week :)
I think that because allomancy is genetic, and is a smaller chunk of investiture attached to the spirit web, they have an easier time leaving. I see it kind of like breath where it's more tied to the individual than to the planet.
Thank you for the comments as always, @silverdragon3332 !
I know its Silverlight, but where on the uhh, Physical Realm did you record this? That's a lot of marble without a soul around!
It's the Utah State Capitol building. I got there a little after it opened on a Wednesday so it was pretty much empty. I had to do just a little compositing once or twice to remove some people from the top of the stairs.
Awesome. Loved the video too; I find this and your others to be very informative while also perfectly paced and data driven. Thanks for making these!
where was this filmed?
We don't actually know for sure if the Beyond is the Spiritual Realm. It's a theory I can agree with, but we are not 100% sure if it's true and we'll never be.
By the way, even if the two are not the same, a part of the person soul will keep existing forever in the Spiritual Realm, since eceryone has a spiritual aspect and it can't vanish, since there is no time in it.
(This is how we can explain talking with the dead through spiritual connection).
What I'm saying is: either the only part of you that remain is the one in the SR or there is also a part (the former cognitive shadow) that goes somewhere else.
2-Also, this also kinda solve the Zaheel conundrum: it doesn't matter if all of your investiture is replaced by the power of one Shard, all the versions of you, past and present, still exist in the SR. By a spiritual point of view, the soul is the same (I actuall don't know ho much Vasher knows about the Spiritual).
That doesn't mean that your mind can access those other version of you in the SR (accessing to it in any form is usually performed through invested arts), just like people with dementia in the cosmere still have problems remember who they are.
This doesn't solve the problem of cognitive decay/change in the Cognitive Shadows.
However I think that my argument is revelant to explain the nightmares of Komashi: even after their body and mind have been turned into investiture and "processed", their spiritual aspect is intact and someone with a connection to them can give them back their shape.
isn't that venice? Love the idea of silverlight being a floating city now that I think about it
It's not Venice, though it would be nice to go back there someday. Maybe one day I'll have the video budget for that haha.
Why can't Kelsier use Allomancy?
Dude I think he's in the Utah Capital. I did not expect that for a cosmere video.
It’s the closest place to Silverlight that I could think of. If you think that’s impressive, you should see where I shot the last two videos!
Son of Honor. Son of Tanavast.
Is that a Persona reference?
P.S. I'll face myself!
Szeth didn't die, though.
He was healed before experiencing braindeath.
So if the Cognitive Shadows are copies of the original soul, does that mean that the original goes to the spiritual realm while the copy remains?
If copies keep dying and more are made, does that mean there could be multiple of the same soul in the beyond?
Idk man, brain ghosts be wack 😂
Yokihedros are virtuosity? What!
That's where their investiture comes from, yup!
thats not silver light that the utah sate capital
hejoe? I always pronounced it hijo, like the spanish word
I'm going off of the Sanderson and the audiobook pronunciation. That said, pronunciation of character names doesn't really matter and people can pronounce them however they want. :)
Honestly I have to activity prevent myself from doing a Portuguese pronunciation of it 😅
@@jasonioan I wasn't trying to correct your pronunciation for the record, just interested to see how someone else pronounced it differently :)