John VS Salamon - Anjin Meets His Old Friend | Shōgun Episode 8
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 เม.ย. 2024
- Shogun Samurai TV Series
John meets his Portuguese Missionary friend, Anjin beating up Salamon. Anjin want to go home in Erasmus but Salamon refuse and blame him.
#Shōgun #HiroyukiSanada #Samurai - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Honestly, respect to that samurai for getting Blackthorne the hell out of there when things got sour.
I know 😢 he waited for him, and how he was professional guiding him to the animals.. knowing John still probably didn't understand. He deserved a raise
He was a honorable homie 😊
In the book after seeing his crew again he took off his kimono and tossed it away because he could feel the lice on his body from his crew and was disgusted at how they chose to live compared to how he'd changed.
Yes... 100% correct... I have read the book many times, and we must accept that these TV versions do miss out, or modify , many parts of the book...
It's also interesting that the real life Adams, several of his fellow sailors did the same as he, adopted Japanese customs and dress and led successful lives there.
I'm not sure that it was that he'd changed. At least in a historic sense. Europeans in this age didn't wash as much as we do today but this is more due to the fact that bathing was more difficult. Even sailors would wash themselves in sea water. I'd have thought that it would have been more of a result of the differences between the men and their experiences. Blackthorn is valued by the Japanese and has been given gifts, physically cared for and been exposed to the upper echelon and other things that make him appreciate the local culture. He also has ambition to leave and to achieve his goals. His Dutch compatriot is seen as a filthy savage, left to squalor in drink and his only exposure to the locals seems to be soldiers that had abused them and prostitutes. He's also given up. I'm not surprised one wishes to remain clean and the other doesn't.
I remember in the 70s The Shogun, John did the same thing, but instead of Kimono, he tossed his old western shirt because it was dirty and full of lice, and he instantly bath himself on clean warm water and soap, he was very happy to wear a Japanese kimono again.
@@BingleFlimp Not really: historically Europeans used to bathe quite a lot (a remnant of Roman baths). This ended during the Black plague. As you know the disease was airborne, and the result of congregation, but some feared it was waterborne, as well as other diseases. It's why many reduced bathing to when absolutely necessary. Recall earlier in the show, when he was told to bathe, Blackthorn protested saying he didn't want to catch the flux
The samurai was probably like, why did they fist fight? He could have just told me to cut off his head. Ok, whatever, gaiging stuff but yeah, let's leave.
Lol
The Samurai might pulled a Stilgar there, he be like "My Nanban master is too humble to order me to deal with this dirty Nanban. All the more reason to know that he is the greatest master I've ever served. I shall serve him all my life!"
First time seeing his bud after many months, they immediatley fight.
Feels like my old school reunion.
In the book, the crew was living in squalor but they seemed content with the new subsidized lifestyle. They didn't have to work and could drink, have women, and eat and lounge about. The friction comes with John being disgusted by their unclean European life.
I was wondering what have actually they actually been doing in Edo all this time. Are they working? Salamon said they are barely hanging on but clearly they have money to drink and fest maybe on Toronaga's money.
Sure doesn't look like they're "barely hanging on", they're probably just homesick, lol.
Haven’t read the book it’s based on, but the way they are portrayed probably just begging for money if they are wearing those clothes and only speak English
@@kokutai3331*Dutch
@@kokutai3331 If you have not read the book, then you won't know that the crew of Erasmus, and Blackthorne, were speaking Dutch to each other... But all of the Japanese people, including Mariko, ( who were able to communicate with the ' barbarians '.. ) always spoke in Portuguese... We are only watching a TV presentation, in English and Japanese... Hope that makes sense ?
@@kokutai3331 They "fixed" too much of the story so now it doesn't make sense. Like for example, they didn't so much steer for Japan as drift there, as the Dutch crew was dying of scurvy below decks in their hammocks at the time.
*Beats his old friend
A friend who behaves like an enemy is no friend.
They where never friends to begin with.
Never saw one bit of friendship between these two.
Hate to say it, but this is what happens if you have ever lived in Japan - it changes your level of cleanliness for life. Their ways rub off on you.
But let's be real, people should be clean and have good hygiene no matter where they are in the world by default as that's just the standards.
bidet 😂
Where on earth did you live to get that idea? xD
You dont need to be in japan to have a proper hygine its common sense
@@SecretSev7enJapanese are on another level.
Everything he said to Blackthorn hit a nerve because it was all true. Blackthorne is an aweful person and hypocrite. 😅
But that guy was also pretty awful. So they both had it coming.
Pretty much. They were both shitty in their own ways
@@othelliusmaximusAren't we all, as humans. Aren't we all 💩 in our own way?
@@omathitis8498 true but some more than others
What did Blackthorne do?
Same question
I've read the book 43 times and Salaman was a mute
Different forms of media having different adaptational choices is nothing new.
Well you're free to watch the show 43 times and realize he is now not mute :)
I also read the book 43 times, and Saruman was definitely the lord of Isengard. I'm not sure if I read the right book.
Its a miracle, he speak.
There are a billion ways they could have adapted this scene that didn't devolve into a drunken fist-fight...
THere are a billion ways they could have not had broken english sailors drowning they sorrows at the prospect of never seeing home again for one man's ambition.
Blackthorne with the Ground n' Pound!!
In the books, JB (John Blackthorne) inwardly comes to regard his shipmates - and by unofficial extension, his own European culture - as repulsive and disgusting in comparison to Japan's civilized ways.
This is a common theme in movies/novels by Hollywood that are set in foreign land: a MC's initial belief in a foreign culture being barbaric and inhuman is gradually replaced by realization that it's his own Western culture that is toxic, superficial and amoral - while the "barbaric" culture contains a high level of sophistication and standards that he originally mistook for savagery at first glance.
I'd like to bust this nonsense: if JB here thought Japanese culture was clean and disciplined compared to his own, he'd be surprised when visiting a part of the city where the actual poor people live. The absolutely destitute, the lowest of the low. The kind who are so poor and desperate that they are not above selling their own children for some measly coins to buy food.
Yeah lady Mariko made a comment about how she wasn’t a peasant, so they clearly have a class system, and they’re obviously not above in-fighting and political machinations. It would seem human nature is still human nature no matter where you find it.
Blackthorne's POV is not meant to be universal in the books, moreso a man of his time being broken down by circumstance. James Clavell was an Englishman who was captured by Japanese in World War 2 and held prisoner. He went home as himself and lived a full life as a Westerner. His books reflect an obsession with the extreme cruelty of Japanese culture combined with the refined etiquette of its higher strata. His books and their adaptations have never been popular in Japan due to their emphasis on Japanese cruelty being seen by the Japanese as condescending.
@@vishaansingh1019 Clavell was English. His stand-in is British in King Rat. There are Australians but they are antagonists. I looked it up just to check and wikipedia says he was born in Australia, but his Navy dad was reassigned to England when he was 9 months old.
@@marudoethiopia Ah, right, forgot. Thank you.
But still in the early episode he lived in a village, far from nobles, most of them are pheasant, but their house still clean and they still bath each day, it's still a common thing even their servants who served him have the same thought about him not shower everyday, he's dirty. So with that, it's a proves that Their culture of cleanlines is still implemented by majority of their people.
I wonder why they haven't taken a bath and changed their clothes. Its as if they haven't left the ship they came from.
How come he doesn’t have his own retainers?
In the book he gets 200 of his own retainers about this time...in this show they just want him to be the biggest piece of crap possible
@@forddon ikr. His mannerism bugs the hell out of me.
@@IOXY3 How? Blackthrone's mannerism are pretty solid overall when he's actually trying to be formal to others.
@@forddon LOL What? He's not going have "retainers" following around him everywhere and they did NOT want him to be the "biggest piece of crap" possible AT ALL, it's just that Blackthrone has conflicting views and standards from how much japan has changed him and he's wondering if he even wants to go back home or stay in japan.
What are the retainers?
So nothing has changed
No, ALOT has changed for him, it's just that Blackthrone has conflicting views and standards from how much japan has changed him and he's wondering if he even wants to go back home or stay in japan.
Why doesn't he speak japanesse? At this point in the novel he already should be able to form simple phrases in this language.
Did you miss the part where he corrected even the priest in asking for coal instead of wood?
“Why doesn’t he speak Japanese?” Why haven’t you watched the show before rushing to make a comment like this? If you actually watched the show you would’ve seen Blackthorne actually speaking their language.
What a stupid comment
@@yourenotthatguypal3483 I haven't watch the show but I've read the book. In book he's much smarter than this guy.
I like this series, but getting a Canadian actor to do a Dutch accent speaking English? 😆
Think he got like two words correct and the rest is all made up.
All poor Europeans have to endure the rape of their language in Hollywood movies by American actors. Nothing new!
Spent all this time going on about how he wants to see his crew again then more or less only meets one of them things go badly once then I’m guessing he just forgets about them and moves on. Great show, but I feel like they definitely could’ve added more depth to this moment.
What more depth do you want from seeing your past-self in someone and beating the shit of that avatar, realizing how much you have changed and cutting off ties to your past.
@@milosmilosmilos each their own.
What do you expect he literally got attacked by him, and if he thinks that of john, then am guessing the majority do
@@lukefury8162 personally I just think it’s a little far-fetched for someone to care this much about worrying about their crew all along. Then after one conversation, he just drops that and that’s the end of it. personally, I would feel at least partially responsible that those men ended up where they are in the first place. Especially after learning what the first guy had to say. I would at least make an attempt to reach out a few more times in different ways as opposed to just quitting and forgetting about them after the first attempt knowing full well that they believe that I’m at least part of the reason they’re stuck here in the first place. I personally would feel I would owe them a little bit more than just 1 brief half drunk conversation.
Especially considering in the end of the day I’m not Japanese. I can dress like them learn the language, and understand their customs. Even appreciate and respect them. But in the end of the day I wasn’t born or raised in Japan. I wouldn’t be so quick to completely give up on men who are from my homeland my true homeland so easily.
but each their own.
@redt8311 No one forced them on that ship they all had ambitions of their own, and john was only following his captains orders, and for a long time, john most likely accepted they had all been killed I guess 🤷♂️when you live in a culture/society that's far more advanced than most of Europe you're own people can seem strange to you, probably should of handled the situation better but I won't hold it against since he's also been through alot
Maybe someone can tell me how he spoke to Salamon, who in the book is a mute. Jan Roper was the person he should have argued with. This scene is ridiculous.
Maybe cause its not the book?
@@longfellow5276 Then why is it described as being based upon the book? Of the many things that bother me about the series, their disrespect to Clavell is right at the top.
Because the story is told even if you change a detail. If the gist of it is that the now-changed Anjin sees his past crew as savages, even though he was the same as them just a few months ago, beats up his “past self” and decides clearly to cut ties with his plan to leave - then the story has been well told despite the changes.
This is not to say that I don’t understand your frustration. Every book I’ve read that had been turned into a movie or show I’ve despised (except for maybe Ender’s Game). But yeah, “based on a book” has just as much creative freedom as “based on a real story”!
@@milosmilosmilos First point granted, and your analysis of why they did it makes sense. But in the book he recognizes and agonizes about his oath to bring his men back to home, something the series omits, to the detriment of his character. Worse, are they really so stupid as to not know Salamon was mute? And if they did, for what reason would they do so?
Several small changes were made in the series to denigrate Blackthorne for no good reason except to pump up the other Japanese characters. Chalk it all down to American liberals who hate white men.
I assure you white men need no denigrating, in case you were still labouring under the impression you were somehow better than Japanese people.
Obviously they don't have the budget for the rest of the crew or a set, lighting, bystanders etc. so they just have Blackthorne do the most dispicable thing he can in an dark alley
Judging by the rest of the show, budget wasn't an issue. And there's nothing despicable about defending yourself.
That's not the most despicable thing you can do in a dark alley. I can think of plenty of acts. One of them involves a Dune popcorn bucket, two cans of Pilsbury Refrigerated Buttermilk Biscuits, and a closeted Republican lawmaker.
You forgot something: a truly wooden actor who couldn't act if his life depended on it.
@alyu1129 are you saying cosmo jarvis can't act😅😅
@@lukefury8162Heaven forbid that I would be so bold but does "deer in the headlight" remind you of someone?
Too much botox I presume.
LOL
Niestety zachowanie komisji wizowej w sprawie Kamińskiego to zwykła kompromitacja. O tym, że Kamiński na 18 kwietnia ma wezwanie do prokuratury było wiadomo od pewnego czasu (podawały to media) i komisja powinna wykazać się elastycznością wynikającą ze zdrowego rozsądku, ale za miast tego ktoś jak mały chłopczyk w piaskownicy, który chce czegoś a jak tego nie dostanie to stoi w piaskownicy i tupie nóżkami. Jest to równie kompromitujące jak działania p. Sroki w komisji ds. pegasusa.
unfortunately the budget only allowed one white man to appear
Fuji is the spy, she is ishidos concubine
Do you really think so when it was her husband's insults to Ishido that led to both her husband being forced to kill both himself and his baby to atone for his insults? She could hardly be Ishido's concubine and wife to one of Toranaga's samurai simultaneously.
No she isn't and no she definitely isn't.
Where did you people get this? In your dreams?
That's a Jew for you.
Theyre not jewish but go off
@@gronk2714 Salamon is a Jew.
@@gronk2714 u dont need to be one to be called one
Lousy acting. So wooden.