Yep definitely needs a warning label. Maybe the MOCO has a Screamin Eagle 16ft power cord in the parts catalog..for $500.00 .but you will need a dealer only "reflash service " for another $150.00 before you can use it
That makes no sense, I have a buddy with a 2015 Tesla Model S and he's been charging his at home on a 25' shop cord for years now, no issues whatsoever? O_o
Of all of the other reviews I've watched about the Live Wire....you're the only one who has mentioned about the ill-use of an extension cord when charging. Thanks for that important info.
Ok so I'm not a motorcycle mechanic (I'm a refer tech) however we don't use extension cords on refrigeration equipment because of the possibility of long runs of possibly under sized wire making it difficult to pull the required amps to the equipment. Imagine trying to suck a thick milkshake through a tiny straw. Your equipment has to work harder causing over heating and possible damage. Not sure if that is what is happening in the livewire situation but something to think about. Having said that, there is no amount of cord at any guage that should have caused any damage to that bike in that short of time as long as the voltage was correct.
Exactly, anyone who's tried to run a welding machine on an extension cord knows about this. Keep 'em short, the longer they are the worse the welder does.
I recant my previous comment on the last video. Amps are amps and volts are volts, and THAT is a design flaw. Especially at $30,000 and if the gauge of the extension cord is sufficient - if that is the really the issue. If using an extension cord is an issue a $0.10 warning label and a circuit breaker could have saved a whole lotta effort.
It definitely makes sense that you can’t use extensions cords but it doesn’t make sense that there was no protections for the bike like a circuit break concept. The character of everyone’s reaction was very high. Would be interesting to see if after riding some to invoke a decharge if that reset charging capability. Since it usually takes a few days for videos to come out I should assume that even after riding around and not finding a charging station plugging in direct didn’t allow for charge. It is also possible that the garage power distribution plug isn’t up to a standard to charge the Livewire. Testing another outlet at a different location would have settled that. I’m sure multiple things were tried off camera. We will see in your up coming videos if you get another Livewire what happens. Again Chris representing Harley was awesome on the phone and you were accurate and respectful in how you communicated with him. If we all took that to every situation the world would be so much better. You guys are true role models. Awesome video with life lessons.
Charging is not a big deal, at least for a car. I learned the lesson of not charging using an extension cord, however my car protected itself....unlike the Harley. It was a dumb error on my part however a LOT of people make it.
Actually, my comment was more about charging in general than the extension cord issue. The small amount of charging stations is just one of the problems. I assume that these are some sort of quick charge but something tells me that quick probably means 30 minutes or more. I will admit that I think the bike looks pretty cool but I already have enough headaches in my life. I'm sure there will a day when fossil fuel will not be available and electric bikes will be the standard and not just an option. Thankfully for me, I think that I'm old enough to not outlast the dead dinosaurs.
@@williambeebe7285 The issue of poor charging infrastructure is huge and persists almost anywhere you go. There are a few apps that I use that are kept updated online by other drivers, and I rely heavily on those. At the end of the day, however, I use my Kia EV for puttering kids around town, getting groceries, etc. It has saved me mega bucks in gas and repairs as these things simply do not break down. The only repairs are related to tires, brakes and suspension. Nothing has broken related to the electrical powerplant. It's a teeny bit soon for e-motorcycles I think, but it's nice to see Harley trying to be ahead of the curve as opposed to lagging behind it.
So the Zero SRS offers double the range, can charge in less than 2 hours, has a 5 year warranty, weighs less, and sells for 10 thousand bucks less? Tough call... 🙄
not quite....range is dependent on where you ride. I get 120+miles/charge consistently. 5 yr battery warranty, rest is usual, and comparable Zero was about 6K less OTD diff....still a lot, but for me the fit and finish was worth it. Also...L1 charging is the most convenient for most people and how they will use the bike so in reality charging time is not relevant to everyone
I call bullshit. Voltage is voltage. If your extension cord is of a sufficient gauge it won't matter. When you plug into the wall what brings the electrons to the plug? Cords
I charge mine on an extension cord every day, but I DID buy a really heavy duty extension cord, I've never had a problem with it. The first day, I plugged it into a power strip, and it did NOT charge, it gave me the red warning light instead of the blinking blue light (and that's why I bought the heavy duty ext cord)
Hey Dave hope all is well I know I am asking you a year later, but I just bought a LiveWire One last night - Just to clarify, the heavy duty extension cord you use does work with your power strip, or did you need to plug that directly into the wall? Not sure if you will see this message a year later, but figured no harm in asking.
@@Mr-E. I have not tried it into a power strip, only directly into the wall. I suppose if you bought a nice heavy duty power strip, you might have some luck. The original power strip that I mentioned a year ago was also plugged into a long (not heavy-duty) extension cord, it was a serious of potential problems apparently.
I bet Ewan McGregor's bike didn't have that limitation. I haven't watched more than the preview yet, but he definitely plugged his into some shoddy wiring.
@@_hauntedhootenanny they were technically still prototypes when they used them. They didn't make the trip though. They had to use a diesel generator on the back of a truck at least twice that I saw
The reason not to use an extension reel on any high loads is if some of it is still coiled up it can overheat and be fire hazard, it also acts like an inductor giving some resistance/impedance so the voltage may be lower at the bike end of the lead and also the current/voltage may be out of phase so the bike don,t like it. Studied this a long time ago, just the basics I remember. Not aware of other brands of bikes being affected though.
Zero gets around this on their 110 plug... it looks like the plug on the back of your computer. It also charges at a substantially lower amount of power.
In NL You cannot use standard extension cords for charging any EV, due to the fact that there is a communication wire integrated which is needed for communication between the vehicle and the charging station. (In addition to the issues regarding charging currents and extension cords)
WTF? All the Livewire write ups I’ve read and this is the first time hearing this. This is exactly why I trust TH-cam motorcycle channels. I can see it myself.
Heard Wess say it's chilly at end of video.... what's temp in Florida? I'm jealous...40° up here in Jersey 1st winter still riding, honestly not bad with heated gear... Great video seeing X-mas palm trees.... as per bike very disappointing to see chargers all taken up, good thing wasn't emergency... definitely would suck
If i were to have bought a live wire and this happened I would be pissed, to put it lightly. I only have two outlets in my garage which are already taken up. Hopefully this is something that would be covered either when the bike was picked up or under the warranty. This bike is way too expensive to have that sort of issues IMO
@@costcotires ...Or you could buy the appropriate extention cord that is rated for voltage and amps. Not just some extention cord from around the house you use to plug a fan into.
Seems to me HD should tell you not to use an extension cord. They should supply something that will do the job if you can't get close to a regular outlet. Guess I'll be waiting till the next video for part 2
They can't because of liability issues. If your service branches have 20 amp circuit breakers then you need a 12 gauge extension cord. If you have screw in fuses then your house wiring is not able to support an EV charger.
This is my problem with all ev. I need a vehicle to be "at ready" at all times. Picture this. You use 75% of your charge on the daily grind. Add a few stops of your normal Friday ride home from work, beer, drinks, whatever. You get home at 5-6pm. You plug it in. An hour later you get a call. Your wife had a small accident on the way home from work. She's a nurse so she close to the hospital but far from home. If it's over 50 miles that 100 round trip. You're not gonna make. So what do you do? You jump in your gasser. Ev's are a luxury vehicle or made for very short travel if used for daily use. I put 160 miles a day riding from Crystal River to Tampa for work on my bike. No way I could or ppl like me could have one.
This would be nothing for an Energica with the 21kWh battery (plus models). It's 79mi one-way, and there are 2 fast chargers in Crystal River at the visitor center. At most 20mins to charge it up to make it back to Tampa at ludacris speeds. Easy peasy, I've clocked 10k miles on my Energica in 6mo and will be doing a cannonball style run from Orlando to key west in Feb with others electric bikes. Come meet up with us and see what it's really like.
@@ecodweeb that's not at ready. To many chances for it not to be charged. Also "guick" is a matter of opinion. Also this type of full drain to full charge is the fastest way to kill them. You can spin how ever you want. The tech isn't reliable yet. Give me interchangeable cells then I'll consider that type of investment. Until then, quick for me is 45 seconds at a gas pump.
I would say that your argument is not the intended target for ev bikes at the moment. It’s more people in urban environments with short commutes with stop and go traffic. Also short rides outside the city. Also, the 30k price tag is unrealistic for everyone unless you make a lot of money or live in San Diego but you need money to live there.. just my thoughts
@@richardwaldron222 it's certainly a reality and you're right, if there were an instance of an emergency - EV would fail you in this regard. However, there are a thousand other things that can go wrong leading up to an emergency. You could get in that gasser, rush to the emergency or person in need and hit traffic and still wait. The likelihood of your described situation, although possible, is so small in comparison to everyday riding. Seems like a stretch to discredit the enjoyment of the tech. I still have an ICE car, however will be getting an EV truck next year - which should cover any emergency situations as you described.
I like the idea of the electric bike, but the range kills the deal. I live 52 miles from Manhattan and would love to be able to go there, but as soon as you get there you would need to park it. Most of us would like to cruise around when we get to our destination.
Jim, really depends on how you ride and what the CCS/Level 3 network is in your area. For those that purchased a H-D LiveWire, you get 2000kW of free charging from Electrify America (apprx 140 full charge cycles) and 500kW free from Chargepoint H-D enabled dealerships. If you're riding on highways (55mph and below), the bike would be able to do that round trip. At interstate speeds, looking at close to 95 miles. There is a LiveWire dealer now in NYC, might be able to schedule something with them to test out the bike for half a day or so. If I were you, I wouldn't be worried about that commute or the ability to have some fun riding at the destination.
As someone who plans to purchase a Del Mar in a couple of months, I hope this issue has been resolved on newer models since this video has been posted.
Soon to be the DEADWIRE. It looked like the one Flip and Chey were riding a couple weeks back had a longer cord on it. You probably could get away with using an extension IF you used an industrial heavy-duty extension, like for a welder.
Given that United States and Canada use a supply voltage of 120 volts ± 6% , I find it very hard to believe the extension lead is at fault and what will happen in countries like Australia with 240 volts? Sounds like standard business research and development ie wait till a customer finds a fault and then try and fix it.
Makes sense to me, cant carry enough amperage threw the small extension cord, but definitely should have a built in fail safe for people who dont know better or dont read the owners manual.
Really not selling me on the live wire. Won’t take a charge, and then can’t find any charging stations, and the one you find are all taken. What are you supposed to do? Hitchhike when you run out of power? No thanks.
That's weird that using the extension cord caused your Livewire to stop charging. I had to use an extension cord once for mine and it charged just fine, although much slower than normal. Also, the Livewire really works best in areas that have DC Fast charging stations readily available. I live in Denver and have about 40 Level 3 stations available, so no problem finding a station.
Basically Harley has a schitty module and the CORD makes no difference. Three prong heavy extension cords are more than enough amperage carrying capacity. What do you think that wall socket is you are plugging into? It is a socket attached to a Romex wire extension from the house main AC bus which is in turn attached by another extension wire from the power pole.
I appreciate other people spending their money beta testing expensive toys because it's really a great service to others considering those toys. There is zero excuse for it not having fail-safe charging. There isn't much of an excuse for wanting anything that is not proven for MANY years previous when HD builds it.
BLOCKHEAD there should be an app to find all the near by charging stations and an indictor if they are being used at the moment. That way you don't have to ride around looking for a charger only to run out of power. Maybe make that recommendation to HD.
As some one who ordered one and has it coming this week, this is extremely concerning. But I do think I would have used an extension cord probably within the first week so this will save me huge! I really appreciate this content, thanks for the warning!
You can keep that piece of shit so much for technology If Harley wants to come back up start by getting rid of this thing This bike should be rented out in Disney land so people don’t have to walk around parks all day it’s a gimmick This electric bike was aimed to please younger people where are they gonna get thirty plus thousand dollars to pay for this toys r us bike they don’t even want to ride they want play station 5 not Harleys.
Wonder if that's what happened to Ewan's bike on Long Way Up. His wouldn't charge and they ended up replacing the whole entire battery. But it seems like with all the places they would have plugged in, they would have had some bad power issues as well. Weird.
Hey, Blockhead, strange that you are having a problem like that. I have owed a livewire from day one has to use the no-no cord with no problems. I would like to share these apps to find charging stations. If you buy a livewire, you get free charging from Electrify America, and they have the fastest chargers. Plugshare is a great app that will show you every charging station, and then you can also use Charge Point, which gives you free charging if you buy one. You can't use the Tesla charger as they use a different system. You might want to try disconnecting the 12volt battery so the bike will reset, then see if you can charge at home. If you end up buying one, Charge Point makes a great home charger that's faster than the stock one. Good luck, and I can't wait to hear how things go. If you have EA stations near you, they have 150, which will charge the bike in about 20 mins.
Did I understand correctly that the issue is that if you use a US extension cable then the polarity can be reversed? at 4:27 I think the guy on the phone says 'It has something to do with the pole of electricity that its trying to pull through the cord...' Wouldn't happen in the UK, all plugs and sockets are 3 pin, and live and neutral are always wired consistently, including extension cables.
wow i sure did not know that either on the extension cord. wow. and with such a lack of charging stations still that sure is problematic for sure. shessssh.
Extension cords shouldn't be a problem. That one just looks too thin and long for charging at 15A like that EVSE does. I used a 25 foot extension cord hooked to a 21 foot cable every night for 40k miles on my Zero with no problems, but it was a 12AWG cord and a 10AWG charging cable, not the little 14 or 16AWG you tried using. That overloaded the circuit with the voltage drop which requires many more amps to produce the same kW to the bike's charger. I'm kind of surprised something broke in the bike though. The charging cord should shut off with overload
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Thanks block.... that’s why we can’t have nice things. Haha 😂 that sucks though!!! 1 Harley needs to send someone home with tile customer so Harley can “inspect” the space and inform the customers that no extension cords can be used!! So it covers everyone’s a$$. 2 Harley need to turn that feature back on that Chris (@sickwideglide) was talking about. Because if I didn’t know about that I’d be furious!! 3 Block, can you ask Harley, as a customer what would happen next? Is your bike effed or spend thousands in repairs?? 4 The engine brake light is an awesome idea!! Maybe find a way to do that for all bike? I have seen products that have a similar concept that goes on the back of the helmet. 5 would be nice if you can see the charging stations online to see if it’s being used or if you can reserve it. Another great video!! Thanks Block! thanks Wes!
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
I'm pretty sure the old Harley guys warned people about this. It's like in the 80s when Ford made that little hatch back 4 banger Mustang. Is it really a Mustang at that point? I get moving along with the future however dont put your main company stamp on it. Build into a sister side brand like Toyota/Scion etc... make it it's own thing. Just a suggestion.
I don’t think that bike has had all the software updates mine has (4 since last 11/2019) but I have been charging with an extension cord fine for over a year. It depends on the gauge however. I use the same 10 gauge with my Tesla and my Livewire no problems.
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Most EV manufacturers do not allow the use of extension cords. The charger for the manufacturer I work for will check and it knows if you are using an extension cord and charging will not be allowed. Then again that small charger for the bike probably does not have the capacity to do that amount of system checking , it probably only checks for low voltage and faults. Our charger is like the size of your forearm. I can send you pictures if you want. On another note our charger does not say "do not use with extension cord" on it. It is only in the owners manual or if the dealer mentions it during the delivery but most customers dont listen and dont read the manuals.
You didn’t break anything, the OBC being fucked up from the factory is a known problem that most of us have had, it’s a recall item that they’ve fixed on nearly all of them. The extension cord thing is in the manual, but I’m fairly certain that had nothing to do with your issue here 🤷🏻♂️
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
New stuff always has a learning curve. Doesn't mean it's a crap product at all. Unfortunately it's good fodder for trolls hahah. I actually zapped something a month ago by using an extension cord. I had no idea!
Hey i been looking for some good answer, I work with electronics, this is a BIG Design flaw! If the bike is "asking" for really high power from the socket they needed to tell him to "build" or call electrician to make him one, This is not making any sens at all.. Well this is what happen when non electric company TRY to make electric super bike... Harley, learn from Zero learn from Brammo learn from Energica learn from Lightning lean from any $5000 Chinese bike at Ebay.
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Who ever your talking on the phone is full of shit. The extension cord is not the issue my man. I’ve ridden these bikes cross country and won a few races, if you have any questions message me. Also the motorcompany is aware of your situation.
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
the whole extension cord makes sense as its probably not the right gauge of wire for that power draw. Kind of lame that no one told you about that though.
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Just looking at my garage, my plugs are in the back of my garage, and I have built up shelves and workout equipment in front of that. If I was to buy one of these (which I never would) and found that out the hard way, I’d take the remaining 10 percent battery life and ghost ride that whip right through the front doors of the Harley dealership that set me up for failure! 😂
i think they should work on it more to see if they can get it to where it will charge on an extension cord, if they can't at least tell the person that is renting one it can't charge on one.
I have no experience with this bike but my guess is that the bike detected the charger wasn't getting the right input power and went into a maintenance mode where it does a discharge cycle before recharging the battery. That makes sense that you heard a pump running inside the bike to waste energy (tesla does this to heat their EV battery) My guess is this would take several hours so if you left it alone for another 24 hours it may have finished discharging and then recharged itself. .
That explanation seems sus though, plenty of ppl have charged cars using extension cords and its even been mentioned ok as long as the cord is rated for the current pulled. The only real thing that could happen using a less ideal cord would be higher resistance in the cord which could overheat and catch fire ( this is why its usually not recommended ) but I don't see how the cord would cause anything on the bike to overheat as that stuff would be getting less power from the extension
You should have went to a Walgreens even though Walmart they usually have charging stations I want to unplug one of those cars real quick just to see if the Live Wire charging system is working
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Dude, they just put like 24 Tesla charging stations at the Target over here in Titusville.... I have probably only seen 3 of them ever in use lol. However, I do want to test ride a LiveWire, but I will never buy one.
Didja try turning it off and turning it on again? :-D On a serious note though, Harley builds a bike and doesn't make it compatible with an extension cord?!? WTG Harley
What do y'all think about this situation? Share your thoughts!
Bullshit should have a warning label about it.
Very sad really, cause not everyone may have a simple outlet handy or charging station around them. Cause everyone owns a extension cord too.
Bummer actually, finding a charger isn’t good
Yep definitely needs a warning label. Maybe the MOCO has a Screamin Eagle 16ft power cord in the parts catalog..for $500.00 .but you will need a dealer only "reflash service " for another $150.00 before you can use it
That makes no sense, I have a buddy with a 2015 Tesla Model S and he's been charging his at home on a 25' shop cord for years now, no issues whatsoever? O_o
Of all of the other reviews I've watched about the Live Wire....you're the only one who has mentioned about the ill-use of an extension cord when charging. Thanks for that important info.
You got that right
The fact that there's no fail safe to stop this from completely disabling the bike is astonishing on HD's part.
Nice to see that they designed the full HD AMF experience into the new bikes. Check to see if its leaking battery acid on the floor.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 comment of the year my man💯💯
Right, the Livewire living up to it's heritage.
It might not leak oil but it can leak electricity.
Lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
HD lovers: this isn’t a real Harley!
Livewire: proceeds to break down in less than a month
HD lovers: must buy this Harley!
Ok so I'm not a motorcycle mechanic (I'm a refer tech) however we don't use extension cords on refrigeration equipment because of the possibility of long runs of possibly under sized wire making it difficult to pull the required amps to the equipment. Imagine trying to suck a thick milkshake through a tiny straw. Your equipment has to work harder causing over heating and possible damage. Not sure if that is what is happening in the livewire situation but something to think about.
Having said that, there is no amount of cord at any guage that should have caused any damage to that bike in that short of time as long as the voltage was correct.
Exactly, anyone who's tried to run a welding machine on an extension cord knows about this. Keep 'em short, the longer they are the worse the welder does.
As a welder I make my own like everyone else does out of SOOW cable etc.
I recant my previous comment on the last video. Amps are amps and volts are volts, and THAT is a design flaw. Especially at $30,000 and if the gauge of the extension cord is sufficient - if that is the really the issue. If using an extension cord is an issue a $0.10 warning label and a circuit breaker could have saved a whole lotta effort.
“I don’t want to bore you with all the troubleshooting” lmao that’s what I was excited to see
Plug your 30k motorcycle into an extention cord and it then breaks costing you lord knows hows much to fix. Probably voids a warranty also.
I made the mistake of watching until the very end..... 🤣
That’s why I only put 93 octane in my LiveWire
😂
More like Livefire at that point
Just throw a Mach on that gas do us all a favor
It definitely makes sense that you can’t use extensions cords but it doesn’t make sense that there was no protections for the bike like a circuit break concept. The character of everyone’s reaction was very high. Would be interesting to see if after riding some to invoke a decharge if that reset charging capability. Since it usually takes a few days for videos to come out I should assume that even after riding around and not finding a charging station plugging in direct didn’t allow for charge. It is also possible that the garage power distribution plug isn’t up to a standard to charge the Livewire. Testing another outlet at a different location would have settled that. I’m sure multiple things were tried off camera. We will see in your up coming videos if you get another Livewire what happens. Again Chris representing Harley was awesome on the phone and you were accurate and respectful in how you communicated with him. If we all took that to every situation the world would be so much better. You guys are true role models. Awesome video with life lessons.
Well, this video certainly did nothing to dispel my belief that charging an electric motorcycle would be a royal pain in the neck.
Charging is not a big deal, at least for a car. I learned the lesson of not charging using an extension cord, however my car protected itself....unlike the Harley. It was a dumb error on my part however a LOT of people make it.
Actually, my comment was more about charging in general than the extension cord issue. The small amount of charging stations is just one of the problems. I assume that these are some sort of quick charge but something tells me that quick probably means 30 minutes or more. I will admit that I think the bike looks pretty cool but I already have enough headaches in my life. I'm sure there will a day when fossil fuel will not be available and electric bikes will be the standard and not just an option. Thankfully for me, I think that I'm old enough to not outlast the dead dinosaurs.
@@williambeebe7285 The issue of poor charging infrastructure is huge and persists almost anywhere you go. There are a few apps that I use that are kept updated online by other drivers, and I rely heavily on those. At the end of the day, however, I use my Kia EV for puttering kids around town, getting groceries, etc. It has saved me mega bucks in gas and repairs as these things simply do not break down. The only repairs are related to tires, brakes and suspension. Nothing has broken related to the electrical powerplant. It's a teeny bit soon for e-motorcycles I think, but it's nice to see Harley trying to be ahead of the curve as opposed to lagging behind it.
@@CaptainFeathersword the dealership should have told him before they gave him the bike
So the Zero SRS offers double the range, can charge in less than 2 hours, has a 5 year warranty, weighs less, and sells for 10 thousand bucks less? Tough call... 🙄
not quite....range is dependent on where you ride. I get 120+miles/charge consistently. 5 yr battery warranty, rest is usual, and comparable Zero was about 6K less OTD diff....still a lot, but for me the fit and finish was worth it. Also...L1 charging is the most convenient for most people and how they will use the bike so in reality charging time is not relevant to everyone
I call bullshit. Voltage is voltage. If your extension cord is of a sufficient gauge it won't matter. When you plug into the wall what brings the electrons to the plug? Cords
Electric Vehicle Manufacturer says NOT TO USE Extension Cords!! And the longer the Cord the Voltage drops off!
Same with snow blowers' electric start..oddly enough..
Its a sign of very bad design on HD's part, just like not including level 2 charging as well. Every other EV can charge on extension cords just fine.
@@MotoMengy ....🤣🤣🤣...No its not!!! You don't plug a Tesla up using an everyday extension cord you have laying around to run a fuckin fan!!!
Ask me how I know you're not an electrical engineer...
I charge mine on an extension cord every day, but I DID buy a really heavy duty extension cord, I've never had a problem with it. The first day, I plugged it into a power strip, and it did NOT charge, it gave me the red warning light instead of the blinking blue light (and that's why I bought the heavy duty ext cord)
Still working for you?
Hey Dave hope all is well I know I am asking you a year later, but I just bought a LiveWire One last night - Just to clarify, the heavy duty extension cord you use does work with your power strip, or did you need to plug that directly into the wall? Not sure if you will see this message a year later, but figured no harm in asking.
@@Mr-E. I have not tried it into a power strip, only directly into the wall. I suppose if you bought a nice heavy duty power strip, you might have some luck. The original power strip that I mentioned a year ago was also plugged into a long (not heavy-duty) extension cord, it was a serious of potential problems apparently.
Me every time I buy something new: "Instructions, who needs those".,,
They gotta build them idiot proof. Obviously the engineers forgot that detail.
Reminded me of the garage scene from "Space Cowboys".
I bet Ewan McGregor's bike didn't have that limitation. I haven't watched more than the preview yet, but he definitely plugged his into some shoddy wiring.
Yeah I haven't finished but they had to replace his whole battery, and then some I'm sure.
@@_hauntedhootenanny they were technically still prototypes when they used them. They didn't make the trip though. They had to use a diesel generator on the back of a truck at least twice that I saw
The reason not to use an extension reel on any high loads is if some of it is still coiled up it can overheat and be fire hazard, it also acts like an inductor giving some resistance/impedance so the voltage may be lower at the bike end of the lead and also the current/voltage may be out of phase so the bike don,t like it. Studied this a long time ago, just the basics I remember. Not aware of other brands of bikes being affected though.
Zero gets around this on their 110 plug... it looks like the plug on the back of your computer. It also charges at a substantially lower amount of power.
In NL You cannot use standard extension cords for charging any EV, due to the fact that there is a communication wire integrated which is needed for communication between the vehicle and the charging station. (In addition to the issues regarding charging currents and extension cords)
That HD Dealership has some really good support. I've never had a good experience when even browsing some used Harleys at our local HD dealership.
That’s only cuz they know they’re on TH-cam
WTF? All the Livewire write ups I’ve read and this is the first time hearing this. This is exactly why I trust TH-cam motorcycle channels. I can see it myself.
Yep, you just made up my mind, I don't want anything to do with that house appliance.. LOL
That is insane if an extension cord break it vs just not charge it
I totally agree with you!!! another reason I would never buy it!
Heard Wess say it's chilly at end of video.... what's temp in Florida? I'm jealous...40° up here in Jersey 1st winter still riding, honestly not bad with heated gear... Great video seeing X-mas palm trees.... as per bike very disappointing to see chargers all taken up, good thing wasn't emergency... definitely would suck
If i were to have bought a live wire and this happened I would be pissed, to put it lightly. I only have two outlets in my garage which are already taken up. Hopefully this is something that would be covered either when the bike was picked up or under the warranty. This bike is way too expensive to have that sort of issues IMO
All Electric Vehicle Manufacturers say NOT TO USE a Extension Cord!!!
The problem is that they (as-in all Electric vehicle makers) want you to install those Fast charging stations in your house...
@@costcotires ...Or you could buy the appropriate extention cord that is rated for voltage and amps. Not just some extention cord from around the house you use to plug a fan into.
Seems to me HD should tell you not to use an extension cord. They should supply something that will do the job if you can't get close to a regular outlet. Guess I'll be waiting till the next video for part 2
All Electric vehicle manufacturers say not to use a extension cord!
They do when you buy it. Block didnt buy it, it was just given to him to ride.
They gave it to block for a week, they knew he’d have to charge it. I wouldn’t blame anyone in particular if anything I’d just say it was overlooked.
They can't because of liability issues. If your service branches have 20 amp circuit breakers then you need a 12 gauge extension cord. If you have screw in fuses then your house wiring is not able to support an EV charger.
Ewan MacGregor charged his prototype with an extension cord.
This is my problem with all ev. I need a vehicle to be "at ready" at all times.
Picture this. You use 75% of your charge on the daily grind. Add a few stops of your normal Friday ride home from work, beer, drinks, whatever. You get home at 5-6pm. You plug it in. An hour later you get a call. Your wife had a small accident on the way home from work. She's a nurse so she close to the hospital but far from home. If it's over 50 miles that 100 round trip. You're not gonna make. So what do you do?
You jump in your gasser.
Ev's are a luxury vehicle or made for very short travel if used for daily use.
I put 160 miles a day riding from Crystal River to Tampa for work on my bike.
No way I could or ppl like me could have one.
This would be nothing for an Energica with the 21kWh battery (plus models). It's 79mi one-way, and there are 2 fast chargers in Crystal River at the visitor center. At most 20mins to charge it up to make it back to Tampa at ludacris speeds. Easy peasy, I've clocked 10k miles on my Energica in 6mo and will be doing a cannonball style run from Orlando to key west in Feb with others electric bikes. Come meet up with us and see what it's really like.
@@ecodweeb that's not at ready. To many chances for it not to be charged. Also "guick" is a matter of opinion. Also this type of full drain to full charge is the fastest way to kill them. You can spin how ever you want. The tech isn't reliable yet. Give me interchangeable cells then I'll consider that type of investment. Until then, quick for me is 45 seconds at a gas pump.
I would say that your argument is not the intended target for ev bikes at the moment. It’s more people in urban environments with short commutes with stop and go traffic. Also short rides outside the city. Also, the 30k price tag is unrealistic for everyone unless you make a lot of money or live in San Diego but you need money to live there.. just my thoughts
@@richardwaldron222 it's certainly a reality and you're right, if there were an instance of an emergency - EV would fail you in this regard. However, there are a thousand other things that can go wrong leading up to an emergency. You could get in that gasser, rush to the emergency or person in need and hit traffic and still wait. The likelihood of your described situation, although possible, is so small in comparison to everyday riding. Seems like a stretch to discredit the enjoyment of the tech. I still have an ICE car, however will be getting an EV truck next year - which should cover any emergency situations as you described.
Have you tried pulling the main fuse and then putting it back kind of like resetting the ECM?
I like the idea of the electric bike, but the range kills the deal. I live 52 miles from Manhattan and would love to be able to go there, but as soon as you get there you would need to park it. Most of us would like to cruise around when we get to our destination.
Jim, really depends on how you ride and what the CCS/Level 3 network is in your area. For those that purchased a H-D LiveWire, you get 2000kW of free charging from Electrify America (apprx 140 full charge cycles) and 500kW free from Chargepoint H-D enabled dealerships. If you're riding on highways (55mph and below), the bike would be able to do that round trip. At interstate speeds, looking at close to 95 miles. There is a LiveWire dealer now in NYC, might be able to schedule something with them to test out the bike for half a day or so.
If I were you, I wouldn't be worried about that commute or the ability to have some fun riding at the destination.
If it wasn’t you, it would have been someone else. This is very important for everyone to see !
that's a fair point actually.
As someone who plans to purchase a Del Mar in a couple of months, I hope this issue has been resolved on newer models since this video has been posted.
Soon to be the DEADWIRE. It looked like the one Flip and Chey were riding a couple weeks back had a longer cord on it. You probably could get away with using an extension IF you used an industrial heavy-duty extension, like for a welder.
Thanks for the heads up basically don't charge with extension cable I hope you got the bike fixed
The livewire had been in development form 2014 to 2019 and they haven't got the charging sorted ?
This is an All EVs thing, not a livewire thing. Every EV is like this.
Glad you made the HD noises while riding. Bluhbluhbluhbluhbluh
Given that United States and Canada use a supply voltage of 120 volts ± 6% , I find it very hard to believe the extension lead is at fault and what will happen in countries like Australia with 240 volts? Sounds like standard business research and development ie wait till a customer finds a fault and then try and fix it.
Blockhead, you blockhead! 😂jk. I think the same thing happened to Ewan McGregor on Long Way Up
Makes sense to me, cant carry enough amperage threw the small extension cord, but definitely should have a built in fail safe for people who dont know better or dont read the owners manual.
Really not selling me on the live wire. Won’t take a charge, and then can’t find any charging stations, and the one you find are all taken. What are you supposed to do? Hitchhike when you run out of power? No thanks.
To be fair, the reason the bike won't take a charge is because it's broken. But the criticisms about the charge stations is legit.
This why we don’t have nice things. 😂
That's weird that using the extension cord caused your Livewire to stop charging. I had to use an extension cord once for mine and it charged just fine, although much slower than normal. Also, the Livewire really works best in areas that have DC Fast charging stations readily available. I live in Denver and have about 40 Level 3 stations available, so no problem finding a station.
Basically Harley has a schitty module and the CORD makes no difference. Three prong heavy extension cords are more than enough amperage carrying capacity. What do you think that wall socket is you are plugging into? It is a socket attached to a Romex wire extension from the house main AC bus which is in turn attached by another extension wire from the power pole.
I appreciate other people spending their money beta testing expensive toys because it's really a great service to others considering those toys.
There is zero excuse for it not having fail-safe charging. There isn't much of an excuse for wanting anything that is not proven for MANY years previous when HD builds it.
BLOCKHEAD there should be an app to find all the near by charging stations and an indictor if they are being used at the moment. That way you don't have to ride around looking for a charger only to run out of power. Maybe make that recommendation to HD.
As some one who ordered one and has it coming this week, this is extremely concerning. But I do think I would have used an extension cord probably within the first week so this will save me huge! I really appreciate this content, thanks for the warning!
Gonna take this bike on the old brick road, gonna... . It's gonna Not charge no more 😂
You can keep that piece of shit so much for technology If Harley wants to come back up start by getting rid of this thing This bike should be rented out in Disney land so people don’t have to walk around parks all day it’s a gimmick This electric bike was aimed to please younger people where are they gonna get thirty plus thousand dollars to pay for this toys r us bike they don’t even want to ride they want play station 5 not Harleys.
Wonder if that's what happened to Ewan's bike on Long Way Up. His wouldn't charge and they ended up replacing the whole entire battery. But it seems like with all the places they would have plugged in, they would have had some bad power issues as well. Weird.
Nice goin Block. Bustin the $30,000 Live Wire...lol
Hey, Blockhead, strange that you are having a problem like that. I have owed a livewire from day one has to use the no-no cord with no problems. I would like to share these apps to find charging stations. If you buy a livewire, you get free charging from Electrify America, and they have the fastest chargers. Plugshare is a great app that will show you every charging station, and then you can also use Charge Point, which gives you free charging if you buy one. You can't use the Tesla charger as they use a different system. You might want to try disconnecting the 12volt battery so the bike will reset, then see if you can charge at home. If you end up buying one, Charge Point makes a great home charger that's faster than the stock one. Good luck, and I can't wait to hear how things go. If you have EA stations near you, they have 150, which will charge the bike in about 20 mins.
That rear fender "thing" is disgusting. LOL
Did I understand correctly that the issue is that if you use a US extension cable then the polarity can be reversed? at 4:27 I think the guy on the phone says 'It has something to do with the pole of electricity that its trying to pull through the cord...' Wouldn't happen in the UK, all plugs and sockets are 3 pin, and live and neutral are always wired consistently, including extension cables.
wow i sure did not know that either on the extension cord. wow. and with such a lack of charging stations still that sure is problematic for sure. shessssh.
Extension cords shouldn't be a problem. That one just looks too thin and long for charging at 15A like that EVSE does. I used a 25 foot extension cord hooked to a 21 foot cable every night for 40k miles on my Zero with no problems, but it was a 12AWG cord and a 10AWG charging cable, not the little 14 or 16AWG you tried using. That overloaded the circuit with the voltage drop which requires many more amps to produce the same kW to the bike's charger. I'm kind of surprised something broke in the bike though. The charging cord should shut off with overload
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
You would think they would’ve told you about not using a extension cord. But good to know. Now I kinda wanna try one out.
Expensive boat anchor.
Thanks block.... that’s why we can’t have nice things. Haha 😂 that sucks though!!!
1 Harley needs to send someone home with tile customer so Harley can “inspect” the space and inform the customers that no extension cords can be used!! So it covers everyone’s a$$.
2 Harley need to turn that feature back on that Chris (@sickwideglide) was talking about. Because if I didn’t know about that I’d be furious!!
3 Block, can you ask Harley, as a customer what would happen next? Is your bike effed or spend thousands in repairs??
4 The engine brake light is an awesome idea!! Maybe find a way to do that for all bike? I have seen products that have a similar concept that goes on the back of the helmet.
5 would be nice if you can see the charging stations online to see if it’s being used or if you can reserve it.
Another great video!! Thanks Block! thanks Wes!
The noise that the LiveWire is making is the coolant system circulating the coolant.
dude a motorcycle that costs that much should not just get rekt from using an extension cable... that's insane.
Did it turn out that all you needed to do was reset the computerr?
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
I'm pretty sure the old Harley guys warned people about this. It's like in the 80s when Ford made that little hatch back 4 banger Mustang. Is it really a Mustang at that point? I get moving along with the future however dont put your main company stamp on it. Build into a sister side brand like Toyota/Scion etc... make it it's own thing. Just a suggestion.
Is the strong "engine" braking due to the electronics engaging to add battery charge since the throttle is not engaged?
I don’t think that bike has had all the software updates mine has (4 since last 11/2019) but I have been charging with an extension cord fine for over a year. It depends on the gauge however. I use the same 10 gauge with my Tesla and my Livewire no problems.
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Most EV manufacturers do not allow the use of extension cords. The charger for the manufacturer I work for will check and it knows if you are using an extension cord and charging will not be allowed. Then again that small charger for the bike probably does not have the capacity to do that amount of system checking , it probably only checks for low voltage and faults. Our charger is like the size of your forearm. I can send you pictures if you want. On another note our charger does not say "do not use with extension cord" on it. It is only in the owners manual or if the dealer mentions it during the delivery but most customers dont listen and dont read the manuals.
You didn’t break anything, the OBC being fucked up from the factory is a known problem that most of us have had, it’s a recall item that they’ve fixed on nearly all of them.
The extension cord thing is in the manual, but I’m fairly certain that had nothing to do with your issue here 🤷🏻♂️
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
@@AdventuresonZero LMFAO that's essentially what I already said here dude
@@Avesta. just wanted to validate what he said it was, LOTS of misinformation in these comments. Thanks for clarifying
@@AdventuresonZero well all of us Livewire owners thank you for you validation of a problem we’ve all dealt with 🤣
@@Avesta. thankfully I didn’t have to deal with it on mine
New stuff always has a learning curve. Doesn't mean it's a crap product at all. Unfortunately it's good fodder for trolls hahah. I actually zapped something a month ago by using an extension cord. I had no idea!
There's gotta be a LOT more charging stations before I buy a Livewire or Tesla.
That sucks, But at least they didn't say you broke it you bought it. Lol
Thank you for this
Hey i been looking for some good answer, I work with electronics, this is a BIG Design flaw!
If the bike is "asking" for really high power from the socket they needed to tell him to "build" or call electrician to make him one,
This is not making any sens at all..
Well this is what happen when non electric company TRY to make electric super bike...
Harley, learn from Zero learn from Brammo learn from Energica learn from Lightning lean from any $5000 Chinese bike at Ebay.
OMG he killed LiveWire! :):)
Running it through an extension cord is dropping the voltage below the proper voltage it needs to charge?
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
This isn’t from using the extension cord...
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Things that make me want to wait quite a while for EVs to get better before I ever own one: this
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Who ever your talking on the phone is full of shit. The extension cord is not the issue my man. I’ve ridden these bikes cross country and won a few races, if you have any questions message me. Also the motorcompany is aware of your situation.
The cord makes no difference unless it is a small wire gauge. The socket itself is an extension cord of the main AC bus installed in your house.
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
I wonder if it would have charged if you had a DC Fast station nearby, rather than a Level 2 station.
Hmmm the full Harley experience lol.
the whole extension cord makes sense as its probably not the right gauge of wire for that power draw. Kind of lame that no one told you about that though.
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Can't plug it in to an extension cord! HD take this piece of rubbish and burn it.
Please dispose off batteries as per local regulations. Do not throw it in the trash or light it on fire. Please
Just looking at my garage, my plugs are in the back of my garage, and I have built up shelves and workout equipment in front of that. If I was to buy one of these (which I never would) and found that out the hard way, I’d take the remaining 10 percent battery life and ghost ride that whip right through the front doors of the Harley dealership that set me up for failure! 😂
Uh... Whoops.
i think they should work on it more to see if they can get it to where it will charge on an extension cord, if they can't at least tell the person that is renting one it can't charge on one.
I have no experience with this bike but my guess is that the bike detected the charger wasn't getting the right input power and went into a maintenance mode where it does a discharge cycle before recharging the battery. That makes sense that you heard a pump running inside the bike to waste energy (tesla does this to heat their EV battery) My guess is this would take several hours so if you left it alone for another 24 hours it may have finished discharging and then recharged itself. .
That explanation seems sus though, plenty of ppl have charged cars using extension cords and its even been mentioned ok as long as the cord is rated for the current pulled. The only real thing that could happen using a less ideal cord would be higher resistance in the cord which could overheat and catch fire ( this is why its usually not recommended ) but I don't see how the cord would cause anything on the bike to overheat as that stuff would be getting less power from the extension
They said buy a electric bike, they said it would be fun!
Smdh, so glad that new techs at MMI don’t have to learn about that thing. Engineering nightmare.
You should have went to a Walgreens even though Walmart they usually have charging stations I want to unplug one of those cars real quick just to see if the Live Wire charging system is working
A bike that never should have been built
30k bike destroyed by an extention cord.. if I ever had the slightest urge to get this bike, it's gone
In his follow up video, it ended up being a hardware fault (before he plugged it in). There has already been a firmware update to all LiveWires to prevent this from happening. He just happened to have a faulty controller board. This isn't an issue for the LiveWire line up anymore.
Hahahahahaha you break it you buy it hahahahahaha jk , Merry Christmas Block Head .
Dude, they just put like 24 Tesla charging stations at the Target over here in Titusville.... I have probably only seen 3 of them ever in use lol. However, I do want to test ride a LiveWire, but I will never buy one.
just tow it up the top of a mountain and regen all the way down to charge up, seems pretty obvious to me
That easily broken? Unreal.
You done broke it. It’s all broke this is why we can’t have nice things
Bring it my house in college park. Got three charging plugs here we can test it on.
Didja try turning it off and turning it on again? :-D On a serious note though, Harley builds a bike and doesn't make it compatible with an extension cord?!? WTG Harley
They should put a clutch lever on to Livewire.
Just one more nail in the coffin for e-bikes for me.