In this episode of ‘The Business of Life,' we discuss immigration: What would happen if the millions of undocumented immigrants working in the US were deported tomorrow? Watch "Millennial Veterans and the Cost of War (Episode 4)” - bit.ly/1HwUCeP
'Native' Americans immigrated over the Siberian land bridge in what amounts to 3 great waves. We are all Africans, because that's where homo sapiens originated.
VICE News In Canada we don't have this problem because the low paying jobs Canadians won't take are filled by temporary foreign workers from other countries that come here legally and pay taxes and rent houses and take part in the economy.
When they were talking about undocumented workers in some industries having a devastating effect if they were removed, this was dead on. For a specific example, Alabama passed a law criminalizing having undocumented workers work for you. This had the effect of farmers needing to hire citizens. The problem was they couldn't get employees. They tried direct hiring. Virtually no takers. They used prison labor. Terribly ineffective and wasteful. They even went to other states to try to get people to come work the fields. The net outcome? Alabama is quietly dismantling that law because food was left in the fields to rot. It didn't work.
John Raymond I agree, that same scenario played out in Arizona too, farmers had a hard time trying to hire citizens which jacked up the operating costs so much farmers lobbied to dismantle and said the'd refuse to fund campaigns if they didn't. mass deportation is just not feasible
John Raymond I have relatives in Alabama and they did not advertise their openings to the public because many were not aware of the change in the law pertaining to undocumented workers not allowed to work. The truth is that the law was forcing the criminal farmers to hire Americans or immigrants with the proper documents that allowed them to work, so now they have to pay minimum wage and they did not want to follow the law. They were criminals and hired illegals, so they are paying the price for it. I do not feel sorry for them. They knew it was wrong and were too cheap to hire Americans.
John Raymond So basically every thing you say proves that America is a slavery nation to this day and without importing slave labor Americas quality of life will suffer. Which further basically means that America is a failed state and nations around the world instituting the same type of democracy that America has does not serve Americas purpose. Because America can only remain legitimate on the basis that there is chaos and strife somewhere around the world.
This series is so interesting, especially as a student going into his senior year of high school. It's so eye opening to the world around me, giving so much perspective through different situations that may, in the future, in our daily lives.
Like how this guy keeps claiming all of these numbers are fake and made up and then doesn't present a source to argue his side- its just a blind sided opinion...
They needed to distinguish between legal and illegal immigration. By almost running the two together, they make it seem like illegal immigrants contribute a heck of a lot more than they really do, like when they talked about the silicon valley startups. Those people are likely legal immigrants with valuable skills (who likely came from an Eastern country like India), not illegal immigrants from Mexico with little to no skills who are simply trying to find a better life and pay to be smuggled across the border. To me, the issue with most people seems to be with illegal immigration, not *legal immigration in general.
Hey Vice! Is there a chance that you could upload a uncut version of the Business of Life? I, and I'm sure many other people, would love to see some of the rebuttals by the contestants.
I just want to say as far as Mexicans go the money that is collected and earned, is sent right back to Mexico and very little stays in the states I see this all the time, only one of these panelists stuck to the statistics and the others either argued sentimental points or failed to back there "opinion" up. Nothing against my people but Mexicans if not South Americans as well that illegally arrived here hurt us as much as they help, they really don't make a large dent because they don't spend much here and send a large majority of that money home, but also just take the jobs that aren't cushy, nobody wants to do and let's be frank almost no one reading this has so much as picked a field once in there life.
You couldn't be more wrong. Your statement is exactly the opposite. If anybody spends money here it's Mexican immigrants they buy houses here new trucks and cars as well as sending money to Mexico. Not only that but there's so many Mexicans that just travel here to shop, so you have middle to upper class Mexican bringing money into the country.
***** Let's not make generalizations. how do you know that very little money is spent here by illegal immigrants? It's almost impossible to survive on a low wage living in the states even more so when money theyre making is not being kept by them and being sent to their families as you say. I don't doubt it, but it's incredibly difficult to both survive in the states and send money back home especially with the little amount of money they make. They might send their family, what? 20 dollars every other week or so, thats about 200 pesos. almost nothing.
***** Don't blame that on the right wing. Corporations have no political allegiances, both right wing and left wing politicians work for the same people, for the same outcome, more money in bankers pockets. You seem well informed, figured you'd know this.
David Frum always brings an interesting perspective. The rest of these shows have been mostly circle jerks between the host and guests. At least there's some debate here.
Does anyone else feel this discussion was a complete waste of time? Time was too short to hear a solid solution from the different panelist fand it seemed like two of the panelist were making sentimental arguments with no real statistical support.
I'm close to 3 years late on this video but they never mentioned the 1960s immigration Act of the USA where you have a flood of migrants from around the world including Asia & Latin America, not just European-focused migration to the States anymore.
This whole episode keeps jumping back and forth between illegal immigrants and immigrants in general and confusing the two groups. Example: Silicon valley being started by immigrants, doesn't mean they were also illegal!! @ 17:07, immigrants are small business owners: Isn't the lady confusing illegal immigrants with all immigrants? How would that stat apply to illegals? What small business owner would openly admit to being an illegal? @ 21:20, in regards to outdated laws, maybe they should change the law that allows all babies born into US to become citizens? Its a loophole and enticement for illegal immigrants to come.
perfecttrunks2000 YES thank you! They weren't distinguishing between illegal and legal immigration, making it seem like there were a ton of positives to illegal immigration, when in fact the positives were really only due to legal immigration.
The discussion of "Immigration" is always focused on so-called HISPANICS/LATIOS immigrants, but omit other nationalities! This country has enough Hispanics, therefore, there should be a quota on that group to make America more diverse.
I'm an immigrant. Born in another country but completed my requirement for citizenship by military service in the Armed Forces. After Iraq/Afghanistan I completed my obligations in a path to citizenship. I sympathize with immigrants but there are some facts to the conservative viewpoint. Close community immigrant economics almost always involve sending money back home. Over 80 percent of money earned is sent back. This money is not recirculated back into the US economy as products purchased in Mexico are not US made or GNO's that tax through the Mexican economy. Many do not pay taxes and statistical data based on earnings is anecdotal at best. Immigrant incomes are often not reported due to fear of deportation. Statistics related to this are based purely on test pool studies. This is often countered by the very solid statistics from real world public services. Massive spikes in illegal immigrant use of public services. Over 100 hospitals shut down along the border or reduced trauma care units from level 1 down to level 3. There is a lot of truth to fining business owners that use illegal undocumented workers. Fines typically range from $1000-$5000 versus the hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars saved in paying proper wages. If business were fined more than the savings from undocumented workers, there would be no reason to illegally cross the border. Switzerland is a good example of a country that has significant fines for illegal workforces.
David Han He fails to define highly skilled and it is a shame. To those of us who know a bit more about the subject (formerly a Master's student working along some of the greatest and brightest IMMIGRANT engineers in the world at one of the nation's finest intitutions), thoravian comment makes so much sense.
OMG i read the comments of so many ignorant bigots. I don't know if i should cry of pity or laugh of your autodestructive way of thinking. You are so much full of hate that you don't see reality. It's so much easier to blame others than taking responsability of your own actions. There are many fallacies these bigots uses to excuse their hate. First, many uses the narcos, but mexico wouldn't have narcos if USA wasn't the most drugaddict country in the world. If you kill a drug dealer another will just take his place, as long there are consumers there will be suppliers and i don't see anyone saying hate words against USA because of that, because with USA the other countries are the bad ones always, but not them. You want to stop the narcos? Stop being junkies, no one is forcing you to use drugs. Second, "they take our jobs and are invading us". USA is so hypocrite, in your indepence declaration you say this "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." But apparently when they wrote "all men" they were refering only to white people because they didn't give the right of Life to the native americans(almost exterminated) and they continued to use black people to do the hard work, and the blacks didn't have the same rights until 60's, and about the immigrants Where is the right of pursuit of Happiness? Is it only right when you take others land in your pursuit of happiness? When "americans" couldn't use the blacks to do the hard work then you used the cheap immigrant workers, because you are lazy. I'm not trying to offend americans but it's the truth. Even now that there is a lack of immigrants and there are so many open jobs to be taken, and even if they are offered better salaries, the americans does not take those jobs, while the average mexican in US have 2-3 jobs and they pay taxes(even the illegals). Third, "but they are illegals, any nation has immigration laws and has the right to deport illegals". Yes, you are right about that, but plz let's be honest, that's not what bothers these people. I once saw a comment of a canadian that said that he lived 12 years in USA illegaly and the cops knew that he was illegal and they didn't give a shit(because he is white), they even told him that if someone ask he should say he was from fargo since he sounded like that. So the truth is not that you mind that they are illegal, the legal status is the least you bigot people care for, you mind that they are brown, that they are becoming majority in some states and that you are being forced to learn spanish to get better jobs. But you are the ones that are dependant of others to do the hard jobs, you are the ones that caused this in first place. Stop blameing others for what you did. Four, "They are ruining our country". As i said before, the mexicans has an average of 2-3 jobs and work 6-7 days a week, they contribute a lot to "america" economically speaking, while there are white people asking for money on the streets you won't see mexicans asking for charity, they get their money with hard work. You don't want them to take your jobs? then work hard too, maybe that way you can have more appreciation for those that do the hard work. If others are more competitive than you, the answer is that you should become competitive too, not blameing them for trying hard. Another thing to mention is that not all immigrants and not all brown people in "america" are mexican. In fact nowdays the migration between México and USA has reverted, the mitration of mexicans to USA is almost cero, but there are still people from center and south america crossing to US and "americans" call them mexicans. Fifth, the white superiority crap. In what exactly white people is superior? "White people is more beautiful" False, if white people is more beautiful is not because their genetics, is because in general they have a better life quality. You will never see people that have a life quality like the blacks in africa to look like supermodels. There are many brown and black people that have good life quality and are beautiful. I dare any white person to work in the fields like the immigrants do for about a year, let's see if your cute face, skin and health doesn't starts to wither. "Whites are more succesful" False, the immigrants in US prove it. People just needs the oportunity and the will to work hard for it. "Whites are more intelligent" I will not say that one race is more intelligent than others, but bigots usually use stadistics to try to prove that they are the most intelligent race. Well, as i said before, im not going to say which is better but we latins at least can say that we don't suffer of avocado hand. In US 7% of the "Adult Americans" believe that the chocolate milk is obtained from brown cows. Many "Americans" doesn't know that Dairy products are made of milk. I can go on but i think that's enough. So stop being hypocrites, lazy and stop blaming others and that way you should "Make America Great Again".
I wish they would stop using the term "ILLEGAL" immigrants in the program. Humans are not illegal. Boarders are man made. The earth is big enough for all of us. A piece of paper should not overrule our human compassion toward those in search for a better life. We should treat each other as we ourselves want to be treated. In the end I think that's the duty we have as human beings towards one another.
I'm an American going to university in Canada and I know for a fact (because it takes a lot of research to move to another country) that when I graduate I can apply for a temporary work/residence permit that will give me a year to find a career job in Canada that would allow me to stay. So basically, I put my 4 years of education in and they make it relatively easy to stay and work in Canada and contribute to the economy. A 4 year degree gives me skills, and I bring that into Canada's economy. I know many foreign students can't stay in America as easily as foreign students can stay in Canada after their degree finishes and that is messed up. I want an America where people who want to study here and use their newly acquired skills and degrees to be able to stay very easily and get jobs that will further America, especially science and technology students.
What really kept tripping me up (and making it hard for me to follow) through this whole thing was the fact that everyone kept dancing around calling it what it actually is and instead kept using the term 'immigrant'. This whole conversation was not on legal immigrants and the fact that everyone kept calling illegals the same as immigrants who actually belong here I would think is really offensive to actual immigrants.
My wife legally immigrated to the US in 2001 at the age of 18. She came on the family sponsor green card, her grandmother was a dual citizen. My wife was 8 years old when her mother sign her up for immigration. Their family was split up because not everyone was approved at the same time. One by one all but the most successful business owning, wealth even by American standards, made it to the US. For her parents generation (baby boomers) life in America was and still is harder than it was for them in the Dominican Republic. They had good incomes in DR and lived a middle class there. They owned houses and about half of them were college educated. Their college educations are worthless in the US and so they to working class jobs in factories and warehouses. The good news is that the next generation is doing much better. My wife and I own 4 houses. I sold my business in 2016. My wife will be eligible to retire from the military in 2024. Her cousin's husband is a well paid super in Bayside Queens. Her other cousin and her husband work in hospital administration and live a middle class life. My wife's brother graduated from Temple with a film production degree and is doing that work out in Hollywood. I think as Americans we are blessed to have so many people who want to be Americans and are willing to do so much and risk so much to be part of our society. Too many Americans have forgotten or no longer believe in what is written at the bottom of the statue of liberty. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
noobslayer10101 lol you know Bank of America has call centers in Mexico, all the deported illegal immigrants that are English speaking get jobs with call centers.
The big problem is the difficulty to obtain a work permit, it is allowed only for the positions of supervisors, directors or managers, for jobs like cleaning pools, gardeners, electricians, and others, especially in construction, the immigrant can not visa. Now let's be honest, I know many illegal immigrants who pay their taxes, have paid medical care, have cars, rent houses and spend money they can with their work in the United States, do not send out of the country, ie, generate foreign exchange, create other jobs, summarizing make money turn in the economy by strengthening the same, and something else, work, often six days a week 10-12 hours a day earning a fraction of the salary of a "documented". Someone is qualified to work in these conditions? Someone is enabled to wake up at 5am to clean 5, 6 sometimes 7 houses a day? Someone is qualified to stay all day in the sun cleaning pool? Someone enables carragar stone, sand, cement, installing floor and wall tiles all day, all week by 8 or $ 9 an hour? Think good about what you speak of illegal immigrants, I agree that the "criminals”, whether illegal immigrants or should not be punished, but the overwhelming majority are good people, working people who have family, contributing to the country's growth and often does not have any benefit in return. Do you really believe that the person who leaves his country of origin, often leaving their families, leave their story backwards wants to stay illegally in the country? Do not want. They left their country of origin for fear of hunger, violence and sometimes prejudice, and of course they would choose the United States, "the land of freedom, opportunity, where if you work hard you can achieve your dreams," This is the idea that the United States sell out there and everyone believes it, but when they arrive here they encounter a totally different reality, he is humiliated, exploited and labeled as alien but still remains strong because to believe that this idea of freedom will one day be realized. Remember the saying of the statue of liberty card "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. " When people ask me what race I am I say the human race, the only thing that differentiates us is the language, but this is easy to solve.
How about we talk about the fact that America took much of Mexico and called it our own. It's not random which country is in which position...the US government caused Mexico to lose much territory and it wasn't concerned with paying the Mexican PEOPLE for it like they should. If we want to celebrate liberty then we need to read the words on the statue of Liberty. It's good that they are having a "discussion" but they are sort of blaming the victim and beating around the bush.
Um no. The former territories Mexico had were conquered by the white Spaniards. Mexico then inherited then when they got independent and only ruled it for 23 years. The US had a war with Mexico and annexed them . we then payed billion of dollars to the government so yes we did pay Mexican citizens for it. It's been part of the US 5 times longer than it was Mexico so no its Mexico's territories. The US developed that land not Mexico . Mexico has enough land as it is so your point is irrelevant and is only used to draw sympathy
That's how the world operated prior to the 20th century. Nations conquered other lands and enjoyed the benefits. And even earlier than that, 100's and 1000's of years before then, those who were conquered were often killed, enslaved, or in the very least forced to flee the land. Whoever was more advanced in warfare got the spoils. Morality was very different, both collectively, and culturally. You can't hold the standards of today to the old world before the 20th century. Atrocities were common back then, but since then the western hemisphere has become more civilized. Especially post WW 2.
I Feel like everyone is talking past each other, and not acknowledging that there might be a path between all of them. Unlike the rest of the videos in this series, this episode feels like talking point rhetoric, not helping to educate or inform, but to divide people across party lines. I am disappointed vice news, this is a low point for this series, and I hope that other episodes are more level headed and informative than this one.
"We can't enforce laws that are totally out of date". Wow. Nice that she has decided that having national borders, having an immigration policy, etc. is just SOO last century. Oddly absent this conversation is the increase in crime brought by illegal immigrants. A recently release report had 121 dead Americans b/n 2010 and 2014 at the hands of illegals that had been arrested, incarcerated, and then released into the US with little to no supervision. I would like to know how many dead Americans is ok, and how many dead Americans is too many(?) How about the narco-wars that have been going on for the last decade? Every other day it's "8 Heads in a Duffel Bag" chicano-style south of the Rio Grande. How about the cost of educating millions of illegal children at the cost of $10,000 per child per year. How about the continuing high unemployment rate among black men? Wouldn't they benefit from having the opportunity to work at many of the jobs taken by the illegals? Are you going to continue to push the narrative that Americans are so racist that they won't hire black men but they will hire illegal Mexicans? Horse-poop. What about the loss of American culture, ideology, unity? Are none of these things worth fighting for ?
Wait so if all the immagrants got deported the U.S. dollar would have more value? Also does that mean that our debt would go down a little? I dont know just taking a guess.
Applying legally through sibling sponsorship is time consuming (10 to 30 years) ie. Indian, Chinese. And , we know well that Qualified Indian and qualified Chinese can make any country great again. America shud shorten the time .
An inflow of poor unskilled Immigrants into the US is BAD for Americans. In Economics the REAL wage = the marginal productivity of labor essentially it means: you earn what you produce So anything that effects MPL, will also effect the real wage. When you increase the amount of labor, and other resources are relatively constant, MPL will decrease (and therefore the real wage will decrease). For example: Consider a world with 1 hammer and 1 construction worker. In a year he can build 1 house. Now an immigrant immigrates into our economy, now there are 2 workers and 1 hammer. The workers have less tools to use, and therefore have to share the hammer, this leads them to being less productive (now say they can only build .75 houses per worker). Since they now PRODUCE less, they EARN less. This massive inflow of poor, unskilled workers undeniably harms poor, uneducated Americans. It doesn't harm the American elites who benefit from the cheap labor (families like the Clintons & Bush's), but the poor feel the burden from lower real wages.
The impact of immigration varies by demographics, economics and location. The 1965 Immigration Act brought a steady stream of poor immigrants from the Caribbean and South America into black American communities, but not white ones. These immigrants were able to assimilate into America and create anchor immigrant sub-communities that have grown exponentially through both legal and illegal chain migration and birthright citizenship. A white community, just a few miles away would not experience any of this, however, a white business owner like a construction contractor, could reap the financial benefit of hiring cheaper immigrant labor while not having to tolerate poor immigrants in their community. The impact of immigration on subsidized housing also depends on demographics and can differ by a matter of a few city blocks. In downtown NYC, the subsidized housing in the Corlears Hook district just south of the Williamsburg Bridge has been virtually impenetrable by Asian and Hispanic immigrants since they were built, but the subsidized housing just north of the same bridge are completely Hispanic. Non-Asians cannot get apartments in subsidized Confucius Plaza nor Chatham Green, but on the other side of the river in what was once predominately black Lindsay Park Coops, the population has become almost entirely Asian in less than a decade. Immigration has diversified black communities in NYC like Harlem and Bedstuy, but not white ones like Howard Beach, Mill Basin or Gerritsen Beach. The community of Sea Gate on the western end of the Coney Island peninsula is literally impenetrable and has like a Great Wall running along 37th Street to keep undesirables out. Speaking of Great Walls, all the housing in Flushing Queens NY is occupied by Asians, indeed, Flushing looks like a city in China. Yet Flushing is the location Macedonia African Methodist Church established in1811. There are no black American owned business in Flushing, but every black American community has several Asian owned businesses. Which brings me another case in point, that the economic growth that immigrants bring to America is not reciprocated.
Michael Moynihan was hoping to hear more on EB 5 investment VISA. How successful has it been and is it attracting the desired immigrants and the economic benefit it is creating in places such as Detroit? Otherwise, awesome show.
Wouldn't a problem be that if these people were to be deported, how would communities fill the gaps... Example; harder labor jobs, landscaping and construction, what would happen to the homes these people occupy? Landlords would be left vacant houses, but would rent prices drop? Where can I find more information on this topic? I studied it a bit last year, and truly loved to debate it.
I come from an illegal grandparents. My grandfather worked in construction, he practically created an empire. To the point of having nearly, 120 laborers at one point(while being an immigrant). So whats this of Latinos being a leach. I know started a housing development company, where I rent apartments to all ethnic groups, when they are having trouble with rent, they ask me for work, do you guys know how long they last? Not more than 3 days. So yeah immigrants take up jobs, but the jobs citizens feel that they are too good for, while not having education. Thank you
10:00 Only highschool dropouts?? Yeah right!! I have friends coming out of College struggling to find a sustainable job and moving back in with their parents.
VICE News I like this segment, but the way this is edited makes the pace of the show seem too fast. A.D.H.D-ish at times. I think this show would be way better if they had more dialog on the topics they discuss. Maybe extending the shows duration or having fewer sub topics so they can have more content rich discussion. This is still a good show just a little too fast paced (jumping from topic to topic) for me. Will still watch either way. It's just my 2 cents.
Saying that "every other country" meaningfully applies their immigration laws is kind of a broad overreach. Many countries, namely European countries on the Mediterranean coast (Italy, Greece, and Spain) have an overflow of illegal immigration from North Africa.
Well cherry picked panel to for a discussion that didn't brought anything new and mostly ignore the most important arguments. They didn't talk about the fact that seasonal workers have all the advantage and non of the disadvantage of illegal worker. They didn't talk about the fact that only a fraction of immigrant are actual worker, they put housewives, children, unemployed, criminals and elders has undocumented workers. They don't talk about technological progress an automation that will make 40% of today job disappear in 10 years. They don't talk about the fact that there is 10 millions unemployed in Europe and millions more poor European that can perfectly take the place of every useful immigrant. They don't talk about the fact that technical and technological progress is more profitable for the economy than cheap labor. They don't talk about the fact that universities prefer to take foreign student before white because they pay more or give affirmative actions to non white so they exclude people who are more qualified and would take their place. They talk about the need for cheap labor in agriculture which is a completely backward model of development that only maintain underdevelopment. Lets just import vegetable from Mexico and invest in industries instead. It would be mush more profitable for society.
"On February 16,2015,the Walla Walla Union Bulletin reported that $100 Billion in Social Security payroll taxes is collected from illegal immigrants,even through few will ever be able to collect benefits,according to Stephen Boss,Social Security chief actuary."
I think they forgot to mention another reason why legal citizens don't want illegal immigrants in their country. This debate has been almost entirely based on a economic sense. One might think happiness is wealth but they also forget to add the social aspect of what makes a person happy. Many of us citizens dont want immigrants because( this might sound a bit racist, bigotry) we just dont like how they act different from ourselves. Have different custom, values, and what they think is appropriate it can seem rude to us. Not saying ours is better than theirs but it is our country not theirs so they should act according to our values. Humans naturally want to be around similar people such as themselves. Why do you think your friends or love one most likely share a common interest with you.
i feel like immigrants who are leaving their country for better opportunities in america should instead be focusing on creating opportunities in their own country.
technically they are helping their own country when they transfer their salary back home. it damages the country they work in and enriches the country they sendmoney to.
Net cost on average family $1,200.00? How much of the collective pay out is actually paid out to the international BANKS in interest / day as opposed to what is actually spent on the people itself.
I would like to point out how India contributes humongous amounts of money to US Social Security without having to claim itself. There are numerous countries with which US does not have a 'totalisation' pact viz. a treaty which empowers the immigrant to actually claim social security benefits while contributing to it as well.
Let me get this straight?? 🤔 ....They can come up with $3000-$10,000 to pay a coyote for an illegal entrance into the US, but they can’t come up with $1,000 for the legit documents??? 🤔 💨 🤥
The question no one asks is that citizens of another nation, not willing to take responsibility for their country, to change it for the better, does their country a disservice along with making their originating country, worse. Thought experiment: Should America fall into 3rd world status, would you leave or try to make America a better place? And if you desire to make America a better place but leave anyways, wouldn't you leave the pool of aspiring reformers a bit smaller and without support? This is the problem, instead of immigrants holding their government accountable, they move to America, bringing with them, poverty and crime.
There is only one truth, we are one species on one known habitable planet we call home. If we don't come to the conclusion that each and every human entering this life, must be loved, educated, trained and shown to love, honor, and work for each other, our extinction is inevitable. People that categorize themselves differently other than simply just human, and mentally place themselves above others because of title, will only realize their mistake at the time of death. In order for humans to really consider themselves intelligent, evolved creatures, unification MUST occur. It's the only way we will learn to unravel the mysteries of this universe. All one has to do is imagine how much collaboration and corporation we must have, in order to learn to navigate this tiny galaxy of ours. We are very primitive creatures just starting to learn and understand how little we know of our own existence, and our place in his universe. If we continue with all the forms of ideals that separate and divide us, like race, borders, countries, religions, wealth, etc. the. We are all already dead and don't even realize it. The choice is yours. You are the one that has to decide to wake up to the truth.
As technology advances...simple jobs will become obsolete and more technical jobs which require higher education will make the majority of available jobs. What happens when 20 million burger flippers, cashiers, ect., will they all be able to file for welfare, Medicare, ect., without paying their fair share. Just curious about the financial implications.
Why would you want to move here anyways? Unless you're already rich there is very little opportunity in the US when compared to the UK, the rest of Europe, and Japan.
Confirmation bias all over the fucking place. Anyone else remember when VICE used to be a respected as a source of journalism on the web? No? Me either.
When you say that they contribute to economy by buying things going out to eat, consuming things isn't actually the case in most. I work with alot of hispanic people who send their entire paychecks back to mexico for their families. so how do they contribute to the economy?
What I'm getting at in Dallas We are seeing the Hispanic community with 3 local masses in Spanish, and Hispanic based business and grocery stores where they hire people who can't or don't speak English and are undocumented. A bubble community beyond the public spotlight with large market space business (mercado ) that sells only Mexican heritage & culture made fashion and apparel. And also is the front for the other side of the coin to drugs, & prostitutions rackets. Just saying the woman selling birds at the local mercado, or one of the other non-existent based business you only find inside this bubble. There is nothing wrong with creating a employment boom and vacuum for opportunity.
Why do they keep saying that only native americans are not immigrants? They too came to North America from eurasia thousands of years ago. That makes them immigrants too by the same standard... My view is, only people born in the USA are not immigrant to the USA.
the real issue is that our society from its very core is fucking insane. the very basic elements of life are completely out of view. Industrial agriculture is the worst mistake 'western' society has ever made, its never worked going as far back as this civilization existed(essentially the roman era, as our current system is based on this, however that was monocultural obviously as there was no industry). Why? because its never based on fertility and overall health. Europe was a culture of disease because the people ate like shit because they couldn't do anything about. The native american cultures had it pretty close and unfortunately we burned away a couple thousand year plant breeding program, things adapted to a specific bio-region... its going to take that amount of time to get back towards that level of resiliency and overall health. eevverryy level of our society is screwed because of the consciousness of man currently, and the conditioning we undergo. Health is equivalent to one's diet then environment and then very closely lifestyle. whats my point? there is zero way forward trying to patch up the bullshit we currently call 'life'.. in 2014 84 people made 50% of all the money in the world.. there is no solution to that except completely forgoing this whole 'system'. cutting away all the details, until like 80% of the population is producing their own food, nothing really matters, because that type of lifestyle requires an entire reworking of all levels of existence here on earth.. the same solution has always been, but, because this 'solution' removes dependence from this senseless living system, it will never really be talked about except in tiny circles. thankfully however, the permaculture movement exists now.. from that stand-point NON of these 'issues' even matter. clean water, clean air, clean food produces great quality of life and earth as a garden of eden.. but, non of that matters because life then isn't about 'money' and then it screws up this hidden control system.
I wanted to hear about numbers. not morals, emotions and laws with politics.. why change our country, why not change your country you are running from. change it so people don't want to leave and come here.
Disscussing human lives in the language of economics is incredibly grotesque to me. Congratulations vice, you have now hoisted yourself to the status of a large neo liberal media organization, albeit one with a varnish of hipness and youth you do not find at CNN. It's absolutely repulsive to see a company who is responsible in part for the largest economic collapse since the great depression and made everyday tax payers to foot the bill for their malfeasance, host a panel on whether migrants and refugees should be able to stay and work in america so that they can make enough money to feed and clothe their family.
Why are Mexicans coming to the U.S. for agricultural work when Mexico and Central America have a growing season that is almost double what a good portion of the U.S. has?
Immigration can be solved by allowing and documenting people. They can work and pay taxes like every other citizen. They don't have to become citizens. That's another subject. There can even be an immigrant tax for all those people crying that they are taking from americans. With college and health care provided to all people our productivity as a nation will thrive.
why arent they just taxed like everyone else? maybe to make it fair, tax them more because 1. they aren't citizens and 2. their money earned is leaving our country. unless thats a good thing...
my dad came to the states age of 18. He worked in the field. Him and other People lifting 5 gallon bucket weigh about 15-20pound a piece for 42 cents a bucket a day. I don't see a me or other americans do it 5 days a week
Yea creating jobs in Mexican speaking salons, Mexican based food stores like Fiesta that carry mostly Hispanic based ethic based foods. Other wise for many Hispanics who are much less transitioned have no allegiance or loyalty for America. Work jobs for less money because their employers know they less or no options and often work as contact employees and never file taxes.
90% of this country's money moves through the middle class not the millionaire or billionaire class. The millionaire and billionaires hoard their money
In this episode of ‘The Business of Life,' we discuss immigration: What would happen if the millions of undocumented immigrants working in the US were deported tomorrow?
Watch "Millennial Veterans and the Cost of War (Episode 4)” - bit.ly/1HwUCeP
VICE News David Frum is a BITCH!!!!
'Native' Americans immigrated over the Siberian land bridge in what amounts to 3 great waves.
We are all Africans, because that's where homo sapiens originated.
VICE News In Canada we don't have this problem because the low paying jobs Canadians won't take are filled by temporary foreign workers from other countries that come here legally and pay taxes and rent houses and take part in the economy.
ShayneKay Canada also has a better health care program than the US.
Go talk about Canada somewhere else...
When they were talking about undocumented workers in some industries having a devastating effect if they were removed, this was dead on. For a specific example, Alabama passed a law criminalizing having undocumented workers work for you. This had the effect of farmers needing to hire citizens. The problem was they couldn't get employees. They tried direct hiring. Virtually no takers. They used prison labor. Terribly ineffective and wasteful. They even went to other states to try to get people to come work the fields. The net outcome? Alabama is quietly dismantling that law because food was left in the fields to rot. It didn't work.
Thanks for sharing this , there's a way that they think things will go, and then there's the reality .
John Raymond I agree, that same scenario played out in Arizona too, farmers had a hard time trying to hire citizens which jacked up the operating costs so much farmers lobbied to dismantle and said the'd refuse to fund campaigns if they didn't. mass deportation is just not feasible
John Raymond Thanks for the comment, i didn't know the industry would take that much of an impact due to the absence of the undocumented workers.
John Raymond I have relatives in Alabama and they did not advertise their openings to the public because many were not aware of the change in the law pertaining to undocumented workers not allowed to work. The truth is that the law was forcing the criminal farmers to hire Americans or immigrants with the proper documents that allowed them to work, so now they have to pay minimum wage and they did not want to follow the law. They were criminals and hired illegals, so they are paying the price for it. I do not feel sorry for them. They knew it was wrong and were too cheap to hire Americans.
John Raymond So basically every thing you say proves that America is a slavery nation to this day and without importing slave labor Americas quality of life will suffer. Which further basically means that America is a failed state and nations around the world instituting the same type of democracy that America has does not serve Americas purpose. Because America can only remain legitimate on the basis that there is chaos and strife somewhere around the world.
This series is so interesting, especially as a student going into his senior year of high school. It's so eye opening to the world around me, giving so much perspective through different situations that may, in the future, in our daily lives.
Like how this guy keeps claiming all of these numbers are fake and made up and then doesn't present a source to argue his side- its just a blind sided opinion...
Sounds like the mainstream media
gulyas Devin basically- if you can't back your shit up with something real and you just argue your opinion... then you're an idiot and a problem lol
dushbagg1 After all he did work for the Bush administration..
dushbagg1 This is David Frum's MO. He is a weekly guest on KCRW's Left, Right, and Center and this is typical Frum BS.
John Masters Or.... You just blindly agree with someone and tell them to look something up that you yourself haven't looked up
They needed to distinguish between legal and illegal immigration. By almost running the two together, they make it seem like illegal immigrants contribute a heck of a lot more than they really do, like when they talked about the silicon valley startups. Those people are likely legal immigrants with valuable skills (who likely came from an Eastern country like India), not illegal immigrants from Mexico with little to no skills who are simply trying to find a better life and pay to be smuggled across the border. To me, the issue with most people seems to be with illegal immigration, not *legal immigration in general.
Hey Vice! Is there a chance that you could upload a uncut version of the Business of Life? I, and I'm sure many other people, would love to see some of the rebuttals by the contestants.
I just want to say as far as Mexicans go the money that is collected and earned, is sent right back to Mexico and very little stays in the states I see this all the time, only one of these panelists stuck to the statistics and the others either argued sentimental points or failed to back there "opinion" up. Nothing against my people but Mexicans if not South Americans as well that illegally arrived here hurt us as much as they help, they really don't make a large dent because they don't spend much here and send a large majority of that money home, but also just take the jobs that aren't cushy, nobody wants to do and let's be frank almost no one reading this has so much as picked a field once in there life.
Stfu u ignorant bitch
You couldn't be more wrong. Your statement is exactly the opposite. If anybody spends money here it's Mexican immigrants they buy houses here new trucks and cars as well as sending money to Mexico. Not only that but there's so many Mexicans that just travel here to shop, so you have middle to upper class Mexican bringing money into the country.
I have. For the first part of my professional career. Actually we displaced Mexicans. I work at stone hill winery.
***** Let's not make generalizations. how do you know that very little money is spent here by illegal immigrants? It's almost impossible to survive on a low wage living in the states even more so when money theyre making is not being kept by them and being sent to their families as you say. I don't doubt it, but it's incredibly difficult to both survive in the states and send money back home especially with the little amount of money they make. They might send their family, what? 20 dollars every other week or so, thats about 200 pesos. almost nothing.
***** Don't blame that on the right wing. Corporations have no political allegiances, both right wing and left wing politicians work for the same people, for the same outcome, more money in bankers pockets.
You seem well informed, figured you'd know this.
David Frum always brings an interesting perspective. The rest of these shows have been mostly circle jerks between the host and guests. At least there's some debate here.
Does anyone else feel this discussion was a complete waste of time? Time was too short to hear a solid solution from the different panelist fand it seemed like two of the panelist were making sentimental arguments with no real statistical support.
I am an Indian national. My US visa application was refused for no reason.
Now, I am a research scientist in France.
vm0531 sure you are, and i'm a astronaut.
vm0531 will you ever go back to India and share all you have learn to help improve your country or at least the region of India you hail from?
Native Americans traveled to America 15,000 years ago from Asia.
I'm close to 3 years late on this video but they never mentioned the 1960s immigration Act of the USA where you have a flood of migrants from around the world including Asia & Latin America, not just European-focused migration to the States anymore.
This whole episode keeps jumping back and forth between illegal immigrants and immigrants in general and confusing the two groups. Example: Silicon valley being started by immigrants, doesn't mean they were also illegal!!
@ 17:07, immigrants are small business owners: Isn't the lady confusing illegal immigrants with all immigrants? How would that stat apply to illegals? What small business owner would openly admit to being an illegal?
@ 21:20, in regards to outdated laws, maybe they should change the law that allows all babies born into US to become citizens? Its a loophole and enticement for illegal immigrants to come.
perfecttrunks2000 YES thank you! They weren't distinguishing between illegal and legal immigration, making it seem like there were a ton of positives to illegal immigration, when in fact the positives were really only due to legal immigration.
The discussion of "Immigration" is always focused on so-called HISPANICS/LATIOS immigrants, but omit other nationalities! This country has enough Hispanics, therefore, there should be a quota on that group to make America more diverse.
I'm an immigrant. Born in another country but completed my requirement for citizenship by military service in the Armed Forces. After Iraq/Afghanistan I completed my obligations in a path to citizenship.
I sympathize with immigrants but there are some facts to the conservative viewpoint.
Close community immigrant economics almost always involve sending money back home. Over 80 percent of money earned is sent back. This money is not recirculated back into the US economy as products purchased in Mexico are not US made or GNO's that tax through the Mexican economy.
Many do not pay taxes and statistical data based on earnings is anecdotal at best. Immigrant incomes are often not reported due to fear of deportation. Statistics related to this are based purely on test pool studies. This is often countered by the very solid statistics from real world public services. Massive spikes in illegal immigrant use of public services. Over 100 hospitals shut down along the border or reduced trauma care units from level 1 down to level 3.
There is a lot of truth to fining business owners that use illegal undocumented workers. Fines typically range from $1000-$5000 versus the hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars saved in paying proper wages. If business were fined more than the savings from undocumented workers, there would be no reason to illegally cross the border. Switzerland is a good example of a country that has significant fines for illegal workforces.
I came from Canada as an immigrant but its ok for me, because I am a white male.
The summary of David Frum's 20minutes.
thoravian a white male? I assume this means you're a ex yugoslav
Rather his argument supported high skilled workers of any nationality.
David Han He fails to define highly skilled and it is a shame. To those of us who know a bit more about the subject (formerly a Master's student working along some of the greatest and brightest IMMIGRANT engineers in the world at one of the nation's finest intitutions), thoravian comment makes so much sense.
The culture of America and Canada are similar not to mention we both speak English.
OMG i read the comments of so many ignorant bigots. I don't know if i should cry of pity or laugh of your autodestructive way of thinking.
You are so much full of hate that you don't see reality. It's so much easier to blame others than taking responsability of your own actions.
There are many fallacies these bigots uses to excuse their hate.
First, many uses the narcos, but mexico wouldn't have narcos if USA wasn't the most drugaddict country in the world. If you kill a drug dealer another will just take his place, as long there are consumers there will be suppliers and i don't see anyone saying hate words against USA because of that, because with USA the other countries are the bad ones always, but not them. You want to stop the narcos? Stop being junkies, no one is forcing you to use drugs.
Second, "they take our jobs and are invading us". USA is so hypocrite, in your indepence declaration you say this "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." But apparently when they wrote "all men" they were refering only to white people because they didn't give the right of Life to the native americans(almost exterminated) and they continued to use black people to do the hard work, and the blacks didn't have the same rights until 60's, and about the immigrants Where is the right of pursuit of Happiness? Is it only right when you take others land in your pursuit of happiness?
When "americans" couldn't use the blacks to do the hard work then you used the cheap immigrant workers, because you are lazy. I'm not trying to offend americans but it's the truth. Even now that there is a lack of immigrants and there are so many open jobs to be taken, and even if they are offered better salaries, the americans does not take those jobs, while the average mexican in US have 2-3 jobs and they pay taxes(even the illegals).
Third, "but they are illegals, any nation has immigration laws and has the right to deport illegals". Yes, you are right about that, but plz let's be honest, that's not what bothers these people. I once saw a comment of a canadian that said that he lived 12 years in USA illegaly and the cops knew that he was illegal and they didn't give a shit(because he is white), they even told him that if someone ask he should say he was from fargo since he sounded like that. So the truth is not that you mind that they are illegal, the legal status is the least you bigot people care for, you mind that they are brown, that they are becoming majority in some states and that you are being forced to learn spanish to get better jobs. But you are the ones that are dependant of others to do the hard jobs, you are the ones that caused this in first place. Stop blameing others for what you did.
Four, "They are ruining our country". As i said before, the mexicans has an average of 2-3 jobs and work 6-7 days a week, they contribute a lot to "america" economically speaking, while there are white people asking for money on the streets you won't see mexicans asking for charity, they get their money with hard work. You don't want them to take your jobs? then work hard too, maybe that way you can have more appreciation for those that do the hard work. If others are more competitive than you, the answer is that you should become competitive too, not blameing them for trying hard. Another thing to mention is that not all immigrants and not all brown people in "america" are mexican. In fact nowdays the migration between México and USA has reverted, the mitration of mexicans to USA is almost cero, but there are still people from center and south america crossing to US and "americans" call them mexicans.
Fifth, the white superiority crap. In what exactly white people is superior? "White people is more beautiful" False, if white people is more beautiful is not because their genetics, is because in general they have a better life quality. You will never see people that have a life quality like the blacks in africa to look like supermodels. There are many brown and black people that have good life quality and are beautiful. I dare any white person to work in the fields like the immigrants do for about a year, let's see if your cute face, skin and health doesn't starts to wither.
"Whites are more succesful" False, the immigrants in US prove it. People just needs the oportunity and the will to work hard for it.
"Whites are more intelligent" I will not say that one race is more intelligent than others, but bigots usually use stadistics to try to prove that they are the most intelligent race. Well, as i said before, im not going to say which is better but we latins at least can say that we don't suffer of avocado hand. In US 7% of the "Adult Americans" believe that the chocolate milk is obtained from brown cows. Many "Americans" doesn't know that Dairy products are made of milk. I can go on but i think that's enough.
So stop being hypocrites, lazy and stop blaming others and that way you should "Make America Great Again".
I wish they would stop using the term "ILLEGAL" immigrants in the program. Humans are not illegal. Boarders are man made. The earth is big enough for all of us. A piece of paper should not overrule our human compassion toward those in search for a better life. We should treat each other as we ourselves want to be treated. In the end I think that's the duty we have as human beings towards one another.
No boarders matter and not everyone has a right to go anywhere. I assume I'm not welcome to just walk into your house.
@rebel
So it would be okay for me to illegal go into your house and take take over.
much much better episode now that there was some debate. Thank you for switching it up.
Legal and Illegal immigration are different. In this video it seems as though they've blurred the two in order to make a point
states that say illegal immigration is okay, let them support them
I'm an American going to university in Canada and I know for a fact (because it takes a lot of research to move to another country) that when I graduate I can apply for a temporary work/residence permit that will give me a year to find a career job in Canada that would allow me to stay. So basically, I put my 4 years of education in and they make it relatively easy to stay and work in Canada and contribute to the economy. A 4 year degree gives me skills, and I bring that into Canada's economy. I know many foreign students can't stay in America as easily as foreign students can stay in Canada after their degree finishes and that is messed up. I want an America where people who want to study here and use their newly acquired skills and degrees to be able to stay very easily and get jobs that will further America, especially science and technology students.
Jake Vlogs why are so many Canadian grads have such a hard time finding in field jobs?
Harajuku3000 Depends where live. I know a lot of people who did not have problems finding work in their field.
What really kept tripping me up (and making it hard for me to follow) through this whole thing was the fact that everyone kept dancing around calling it what it actually is and instead kept using the term 'immigrant'. This whole conversation was not on legal immigrants and the fact that everyone kept calling illegals the same as immigrants who actually belong here I would think is really offensive to actual immigrants.
My wife legally immigrated to the US in 2001 at the age of 18. She came on the family sponsor green card, her grandmother was a dual citizen. My wife was 8 years old when her mother sign her up for immigration. Their family was split up because not everyone was approved at the same time. One by one all but the most successful business owning, wealth even by American standards, made it to the US. For her parents generation (baby boomers) life in America was and still is harder than it was for them in the Dominican Republic. They had good incomes in DR and lived a middle class there. They owned houses and about half of them were college educated. Their college educations are worthless in the US and so they to working class jobs in factories and warehouses. The good news is that the next generation is doing much better. My wife and I own 4 houses. I sold my business in 2016. My wife will be eligible to retire from the military in 2024. Her cousin's husband is a well paid super in Bayside Queens. Her other cousin and her husband work in hospital administration and live a middle class life. My wife's brother graduated from Temple with a film production degree and is doing that work out in Hollywood. I think as Americans we are blessed to have so many people who want to be Americans and are willing to do so much and risk so much to be part of our society. Too many Americans have forgotten or no longer believe in what is written at the bottom of the statue of liberty. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Even native americans have travelled to america from asia
Only thing I dont like is Bank of America as a sponsor but gotta pay the bills I guess
noobslayer10101 lol you know Bank of America has call centers in Mexico, all the deported illegal immigrants that are English speaking get jobs with call centers.
The big problem is the difficulty to obtain a work permit, it is allowed only for the positions of supervisors, directors or managers, for jobs like cleaning pools, gardeners, electricians, and others, especially in construction, the immigrant can not visa. Now let's be honest, I know many illegal immigrants who pay their taxes, have paid medical care, have cars, rent houses and spend money they can with their work in the United States, do not send out of the country, ie, generate foreign exchange, create other jobs, summarizing make money turn in the economy by strengthening the same, and something else, work, often six days a week 10-12 hours a day earning a fraction of the salary of a "documented". Someone is qualified to work in these conditions? Someone is enabled to wake up at 5am to clean 5, 6 sometimes 7 houses a day? Someone is qualified to stay all day in the sun cleaning pool? Someone enables carragar stone, sand, cement, installing floor and wall tiles all day, all week by 8 or $ 9 an hour? Think good about what you speak of illegal immigrants, I agree that the "criminals”, whether illegal immigrants or should not be punished, but the overwhelming majority are good people, working people who have family, contributing to the country's growth and often does not have any benefit in return. Do you really believe that the person who leaves his country of origin, often leaving their families, leave their story backwards wants to stay illegally in the country? Do not want. They left their country of origin for fear of hunger, violence and sometimes prejudice, and of course they would choose the United States, "the land of freedom, opportunity, where if you work hard you can achieve your dreams," This is the idea that the United States sell out there and everyone believes it, but when they arrive here they encounter a totally different reality, he is humiliated, exploited and labeled as alien but still remains strong because to believe that this idea of freedom will one day be realized.
Remember the saying of the statue of liberty card "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. "
When people ask me what race I am I say the human race, the only thing that differentiates us is the language, but this is easy to solve.
"Bank of America" *nods head*... *turns off*
We are one world we are all human we are one
How about we talk about the fact that America took much of Mexico and called it our own. It's not random which country is in which position...the US government caused Mexico to lose much territory and it wasn't concerned with paying the Mexican PEOPLE for it like they should. If we want to celebrate liberty then we need to read the words on the statue of Liberty. It's good that they are having a "discussion" but they are sort of blaming the victim and beating around the bush.
Um no. The former territories Mexico had were conquered by the white Spaniards. Mexico then inherited then when they got independent and only ruled it for 23 years. The US had a war with Mexico and annexed them . we then payed billion of dollars to the government so yes we did pay Mexican citizens for it. It's been part of the US 5 times longer than it was Mexico so no its Mexico's territories. The US developed that land not Mexico . Mexico has enough land as it is so your point is irrelevant and is only used to draw sympathy
That's how the world operated prior to the 20th century. Nations conquered other lands and enjoyed the benefits. And even earlier than that, 100's and 1000's of years before then, those who were conquered were often killed, enslaved, or in the very least forced to flee the land. Whoever was more advanced in warfare got the spoils. Morality was very different, both collectively, and culturally. You can't hold the standards of today to the old world before the 20th century. Atrocities were common back then, but since then the western hemisphere has become more civilized. Especially post WW 2.
Obama, just enforce the freaking law and kick everyone out of the country who entered illegally - IT IS YOUR JOB!
I Feel like everyone is talking past each other, and not acknowledging that there might be a path between all of them. Unlike the rest of the videos in this series, this episode feels like talking point rhetoric, not helping to educate or inform, but to divide people across party lines. I am disappointed vice news, this is a low point for this series, and I hope that other episodes are more level headed and informative than this one.
"We can't enforce laws that are totally out of date". Wow. Nice that she has decided that having national borders, having an immigration policy, etc. is just SOO last century.
Oddly absent this conversation is the increase in crime brought by illegal immigrants. A recently release report had 121 dead Americans b/n 2010 and 2014 at the hands of illegals that had been arrested, incarcerated, and then released into the US with little to no supervision. I would like to know how many dead Americans is ok, and how many dead Americans is too many(?)
How about the narco-wars that have been going on for the last decade? Every other day it's "8 Heads in a Duffel Bag" chicano-style south of the Rio Grande.
How about the cost of educating millions of illegal children at the cost of $10,000 per child per year.
How about the continuing high unemployment rate among black men? Wouldn't they benefit from having the opportunity to work at many of the jobs taken by the illegals?
Are you going to continue to push the narrative that Americans are so racist that they won't hire black men but they will hire illegal Mexicans? Horse-poop.
What about the loss of American culture, ideology, unity?
Are none of these things worth fighting for ?
hey actual talking about a problem in a correct way
Peace and love from Egypt
o noes, bank of america wouldn't be able to get their 123 billion if the illegals left, i cri :c
I like that dude farthest to the right. He has a lot of common sense.
Wait so if all the immagrants got deported the U.S. dollar would have more value?
Also does that mean that our debt would go down a little? I dont know just taking a guess.
i am very glad that i found this video.thanks sandra wetzel collins
Applying legally through sibling sponsorship is time consuming (10 to 30 years) ie. Indian, Chinese. And , we know well that Qualified Indian and
qualified Chinese can make any country great again. America shud shorten the time .
This is still one of the best shows.
An inflow of poor unskilled Immigrants into the US is BAD for Americans.
In Economics the REAL wage = the marginal productivity of labor
essentially it means: you earn what you produce
So anything that effects MPL, will also effect the real wage. When you increase the amount of labor, and other resources are relatively constant, MPL will decrease (and therefore the real wage will decrease).
For example:
Consider a world with 1 hammer and 1 construction worker. In a year he can build 1 house.
Now an immigrant immigrates into our economy, now there are 2 workers and 1 hammer. The workers have less tools to use, and therefore have to share the hammer, this leads them to being less productive (now say they can only build .75 houses per worker). Since they now PRODUCE less, they EARN less.
This massive inflow of poor, unskilled workers undeniably harms poor, uneducated Americans. It doesn't harm the American elites who benefit from the cheap labor (families like the Clintons & Bush's), but the poor feel the burden from lower real wages.
The impact of immigration varies by demographics, economics and location. The 1965 Immigration Act brought a steady stream of poor immigrants from the Caribbean and South America into black American communities, but not white ones. These immigrants were able to assimilate into America and create anchor immigrant sub-communities that have grown exponentially through both legal and illegal chain migration and birthright citizenship. A white community, just a few miles away would not experience any of this, however, a white business owner like a construction contractor, could reap the financial benefit of hiring cheaper immigrant labor while not having to tolerate poor immigrants in their community.
The impact of immigration on subsidized housing also depends on demographics and can differ by a matter of a few city blocks. In downtown NYC, the subsidized housing in the Corlears Hook district just south of the Williamsburg Bridge has been virtually impenetrable by Asian and Hispanic immigrants since they were built, but the subsidized housing just north of the same bridge are completely Hispanic. Non-Asians cannot get apartments in subsidized Confucius Plaza nor Chatham Green, but on the other side of the river in what was once predominately black Lindsay Park Coops, the population has become almost entirely Asian in less than a decade.
Immigration has diversified black communities in NYC like Harlem and Bedstuy, but not white ones like Howard Beach, Mill Basin or Gerritsen Beach. The community of Sea Gate on the western end of the Coney Island peninsula is literally impenetrable and has like a Great Wall running along 37th Street to keep undesirables out. Speaking of Great Walls, all the housing in Flushing Queens NY is occupied by Asians, indeed, Flushing looks like a city in China. Yet Flushing is the location Macedonia African Methodist Church established in1811. There are no black American owned business in Flushing, but every black American community has several Asian owned businesses. Which brings me another case in point, that the economic growth that immigrants bring to America is not reciprocated.
Michael Moynihan was hoping to hear more on EB 5 investment VISA. How successful has it been and is it attracting the desired immigrants and the economic benefit it is creating in places such as Detroit?
Otherwise, awesome show.
Wouldn't a problem be that if these people were to be deported, how would communities fill the gaps... Example; harder labor jobs, landscaping and construction, what would happen to the homes these people occupy? Landlords would be left vacant houses, but would rent prices drop?
Where can I find more information on this topic? I studied it a bit last year, and truly loved to debate it.
The government can look for American citizens to fill those in. Not everything has to be about money.
I come from an illegal grandparents. My grandfather worked in construction, he practically created an empire. To the point of having nearly, 120 laborers at one point(while being an immigrant). So whats this of Latinos being a leach. I know started a housing development company, where I rent apartments to all ethnic groups, when they are having trouble with rent, they ask me for work, do you guys know how long they last? Not more than 3 days. So yeah immigrants take up jobs, but the jobs citizens feel that they are too good for, while not having education. Thank you
10:00 Only highschool dropouts?? Yeah right!! I have friends coming out of College struggling to find a sustainable job and moving back in with their parents.
+Tegan Burns cause they are dumb
+chownful Honestly yeah but that's more of an opinion on our post education system
Tegan Burns What type of degrees do they have? They should be able to find a sustainable job somewhere in the USA if they have an in-demand degree.
VICE News I like this segment, but the way this is edited makes the pace of the show seem too fast. A.D.H.D-ish at times. I think this show would be way better if they had more dialog on the topics they discuss. Maybe extending the shows duration or having fewer sub topics so they can have more content rich discussion. This is still a good show just a little too fast paced (jumping from topic to topic) for me.
Will still watch either way. It's just my 2 cents.
Saying that "every other country" meaningfully applies their immigration laws is kind of a broad overreach. Many countries, namely European countries on the Mediterranean coast (Italy, Greece, and Spain) have an overflow of illegal immigration from North Africa.
Well cherry picked panel to for a discussion that didn't brought anything new and mostly ignore the most important arguments. They didn't talk about the fact that seasonal workers have all the advantage and non of the disadvantage of illegal worker. They didn't talk about the fact that only a fraction of immigrant are actual worker, they put housewives, children, unemployed, criminals and elders has undocumented workers. They don't talk about technological progress an automation that will make 40% of today job disappear in 10 years. They don't talk about the fact that there is 10 millions unemployed in Europe and millions more poor European that can perfectly take the place of every useful immigrant. They don't talk about the fact that technical and technological progress is more profitable for the economy than cheap labor. They don't talk about the fact that universities prefer to take foreign student before white because they pay more or give affirmative actions to non white so they exclude people who are more qualified and would take their place. They talk about the need for cheap labor in agriculture which is a completely backward model of development that only maintain underdevelopment. Lets just import vegetable from Mexico and invest in industries instead. It would be mush more profitable for society.
Wow Vice actually has a relatively unbiased debate over a social issue. Color me surprised.
Cut the crap and talk about N.A.F.T.A. and the War on Drugs.
"On February 16,2015,the Walla Walla Union Bulletin reported that $100 Billion in Social Security payroll taxes is collected from illegal immigrants,even through few will ever be able to collect benefits,according to Stephen Boss,Social Security chief actuary."
A bit lopsided but David had very good points.
I think they forgot to mention another reason why legal citizens don't want illegal immigrants in their country. This debate has been almost entirely based on a economic sense. One might think happiness is wealth but they also forget to add the social aspect of what makes a person happy. Many of us citizens dont want immigrants because( this might sound a bit racist, bigotry) we just dont like how they act different from ourselves. Have different custom, values, and what they think is appropriate it can seem rude to us. Not saying ours is better than theirs but it is our country not theirs so they should act according to our values. Humans naturally want to be around similar people such as themselves. Why do you think your friends or love one most likely share a common interest with you.
That Canadian(?) guy had a point about technology vs. cheap human labor. 2015 people, come on make the switch!
i feel like immigrants who are leaving their country for better opportunities in america should instead be focusing on creating opportunities in their own country.
technically they are helping their own country when they transfer their salary back home. it damages the country they work in and enriches the country they sendmoney to.
Mario Crespo do you know how strict the rules are to become a Mexican citizen? Boy bye!
Net cost on average family $1,200.00? How much of the collective pay out is actually paid out to the international BANKS in interest / day as opposed to what is actually spent on the people itself.
i want to see the whole thing
I would like to point out how India contributes humongous amounts of money to US Social Security without having to claim itself. There are numerous countries with which US does not have a 'totalisation' pact viz. a treaty which empowers the immigrant to actually claim social security benefits while contributing to it as well.
I would love to see a episode on the war on drugs!
Temporary work program is the only solution.
Let me get this straight?? 🤔 ....They can come up with $3000-$10,000 to pay a coyote for an illegal entrance into the US, but they can’t come up with $1,000 for the legit documents??? 🤔 💨 🤥
The question no one asks is that citizens of another nation, not willing to take responsibility for their country, to change it for the better, does their country a disservice along with making their originating country, worse.
Thought experiment:
Should America fall into 3rd world status, would you leave or try to make America a better place? And if you desire to make America a better place but leave anyways, wouldn't you leave the pool of aspiring reformers a bit smaller and without support?
This is the problem, instead of immigrants holding their government accountable, they move to America, bringing with them, poverty and crime.
the "day without immigrants" was a total fail. #bunk
There is only one truth, we are one species on one known habitable planet we call home. If we don't come to the conclusion that each and every human entering this life, must be loved, educated, trained and shown to love, honor, and work for each other, our extinction is inevitable. People that categorize themselves differently other than simply just human, and mentally place themselves above others because of title, will only realize their mistake at the time of death. In order for humans to really consider themselves intelligent, evolved creatures, unification MUST occur. It's the only way we will learn to unravel the mysteries of this universe. All one has to do is imagine how much collaboration and corporation we must have, in order to learn to navigate this tiny galaxy of ours. We are very primitive creatures just starting to learn and understand how little we know of our own existence, and our place in his universe. If we continue with all the forms of ideals that separate and divide us, like race, borders, countries, religions, wealth, etc. the. We are all already dead and don't even realize it. The choice is yours. You are the one that has to decide to wake up to the truth.
It's 2 against 1, and David Frum thumped both his opponents.
Hahaha I'm sure Germany & the rest of Europe would just be delighted if you informed them of this right about now lol
Yay, Vice News...aka Left Wing Propaganda From Your Friend Ezra Klein.
As technology advances...simple jobs will become obsolete and more technical jobs which require higher education will make the majority of available jobs. What happens when 20 million burger flippers, cashiers, ect., will they all be able to file for welfare, Medicare, ect., without paying their fair share. Just curious about the financial implications.
Why would you want to move here anyways? Unless you're already rich there is very little opportunity in the US when compared to the UK, the rest of Europe, and Japan.
Confirmation bias all over the fucking place. Anyone else remember when VICE used to be a respected as a source of journalism on the web? No? Me either.
When you say that they contribute to economy by buying things going out to eat, consuming things isn't actually the case in most. I work with alot of hispanic people who send their entire paychecks back to mexico for their families. so how do they contribute to the economy?
they work. paid work always produces more total value than the people who do it are paid (otherwise it simply would not be done).
What I'm getting at in Dallas We are seeing the Hispanic community with 3 local masses in Spanish, and Hispanic based business and grocery stores where they hire people who can't or don't speak English and are undocumented. A bubble community beyond the public spotlight with large market space business (mercado ) that sells only Mexican heritage & culture made fashion and apparel. And also is the front for the other side of the coin to drugs, & prostitutions rackets. Just saying the woman selling birds at the local mercado, or one of the other non-existent based business you only find inside this bubble. There is nothing wrong with creating a employment boom and vacuum for opportunity.
Why do they keep saying that only native americans are not immigrants? They too came to North America from eurasia thousands of years ago. That makes them immigrants too by the same standard... My view is, only people born in the USA are not immigrant to the USA.
Neavris The land had no inhabitants when they came here, they are not immigrants in the literal sense.
***** Those born here either then, no?
the real issue is that our society from its very core is fucking insane. the very basic elements of life are completely out of view. Industrial agriculture is the worst mistake 'western' society has ever made, its never worked going as far back as this civilization existed(essentially the roman era, as our current system is based on this, however that was monocultural obviously as there was no industry). Why? because its never based on fertility and overall health. Europe was a culture of disease because the people ate like shit because they couldn't do anything about. The native american cultures had it pretty close and unfortunately we burned away a couple thousand year plant breeding program, things adapted to a specific bio-region... its going to take that amount of time to get back towards that level of resiliency and overall health. eevverryy level of our society is screwed because of the consciousness of man currently, and the conditioning we undergo. Health is equivalent to one's diet then environment and then very closely lifestyle.
whats my point? there is zero way forward trying to patch up the bullshit we currently call 'life'.. in 2014 84 people made 50% of all the money in the world.. there is no solution to that except completely forgoing this whole 'system'.
cutting away all the details, until like 80% of the population is producing their own food, nothing really matters, because that type of lifestyle requires an entire reworking of all levels of existence here on earth.. the same solution has always been, but, because this 'solution' removes dependence from this senseless living system, it will never really be talked about except in tiny circles. thankfully however, the permaculture movement exists now.. from that stand-point NON of these 'issues' even matter.
clean water, clean air, clean food produces great quality of life and earth as a garden of eden.. but, non of that matters because life then isn't about 'money' and then it screws up this hidden control system.
I wanted to hear about numbers. not morals, emotions and laws with politics.. why change our country, why not change your country you are running from. change it so people don't want to leave and come here.
Disscussing human lives in the language of economics is incredibly grotesque to me. Congratulations vice, you have now hoisted yourself to the status of a large neo liberal media organization, albeit one with a varnish of hipness and youth you do not find at CNN. It's absolutely repulsive to see a company who is responsible in part for the largest economic collapse since the great depression and made everyday tax payers to foot the bill for their malfeasance, host a panel on whether migrants and refugees should be able to stay and work in america so that they can make enough money to feed and clothe their family.
Why are Mexicans coming to the U.S. for agricultural work when Mexico and Central America have a growing season that is almost double what a good portion of the U.S. has?
It has always been a dream of mine to move to the United States... but there simply is no legal way to do so! so im stuck here in England :(
yes, must be so miserable living in that poor country
Immigration can be solved by allowing and documenting people. They can work and pay taxes like every other citizen. They don't have to become citizens. That's another subject. There can even be an immigrant tax for all those people crying that they are taking from americans. With college and health care provided to all people our productivity as a nation will thrive.
why are american so frustrated? Those poor people are just doing their jobs. I mean come on.
why arent they just taxed like everyone else? maybe to make it fair, tax them more because 1. they aren't citizens and 2. their money earned is leaving our country. unless thats a good thing...
my dad came to the states age of 18. He worked in the field. Him and other People lifting 5 gallon bucket weigh about 15-20pound a piece for 42 cents a bucket a day. I don't see a me or other americans do it 5 days a week
Native Americans migrated to the U.S. From Asia...
make the fence bigger!
are there real people on the other side of this computer?
Yea creating jobs in Mexican speaking salons, Mexican based food stores like Fiesta that carry mostly Hispanic based ethic based foods. Other wise for many Hispanics who are much less transitioned have no allegiance or loyalty for America. Work jobs for less money because their employers know they less or no options and often work as contact employees and never file taxes.
90% of this country's money moves through the middle class not the millionaire or billionaire class.
The millionaire and billionaires hoard their money
i hated the editing on this. would've preferred to have just seen the raw footage.
Im in computer science and when i look around me, there is 4 white student vs 30 to 40 immigrant student. NOT NORMAL!
Ya we can put a man on the moon but can't think how to make a salad for less than $50.
Why do Americans use both Indians and Native Americans to describe Aboriginals?
Native Americans also traveled to America from somewhere else, homo sapiens is said to have originated in Africa.
Canada immigration laws are completely uncontroversial ? Lol I had to laugh at that.
The Canadian's out of touch, even if he's stepped foot in brooklyn. Canada does have controversy.
David Frum is a Canadian immigrant. He is a US citizen now ( at time of taping this).
He was the best one on this panel from what I heard.
The cost is actually 8,000 guaranteed, 3,000 at you own risk and 15,000 for a corrupt immigration officer
One would think if you all want to talk about LIFE. Then one might think about. What is the Onion Router?
nuke illeagls they wont stop then nuke them.
Proud of the ecuadorian woman
its not the people, its the employers