It has already been ruled that the company must prove you caused the failure in order to void the warranty. The ruling came from the "warranty void if sticker removed" nonsense.
You forget the "reality moderator". In many cases they will claim warranty is void and then you need to have deep pockets to take them to court and prove otherwise. Most of the time litigation is a load more than the value of the item so the consumer just gives up.
It blows my mind how strong arming parts suppliers into not dealing with your competitors isn't ruled as an illegal monopoly and anti-competitive practices. It's the literal textbook definition of those things.
But it isn't though, they are only doing it to parts used in their phones only (enforced by patern right). You can still buy other chips that funtion the same, just not that specific one therefor not a monopoly Its like saying apple is a monopoly because they are the only suppliers of iphones
@@Alucard-gt1zf Found the Apple shill/fanboy. 1. WTF do you mean by "patern right"? Do you mean patent? I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't own the patents on the third party parts they source from suppliers. They threaten the parts suppliers with not doing business with them anymore if they also sell to anyone else, which the suppliers only agree to because Apple is a huge source of income for them. 2. No, you literally can't still buy other chips that "funtion" the same. Apple's been known to brick your products for even sourcing another identical part salvaged from an identical donor machine. If this were possible, don't you think Louis would be doing that already and not complaining about Apple's stranglehold on supplies? Louis has gotten in trouble for even trying to ship in functionally identical batteries that would work in Apple products (Apple claimed it would lead to counterfeiting), and frequently complains about the ONLY available source for working replacement components is from scrap machines he can salvage for parts. 3. "Its like saying apple is a monopoly because they are the only suppliers of iphones" That's not true in the slightest, and you clearly don't have a clue what an illegal monopoly is. No one is asking to produce iPhones as a whole product, and the iPhone is a singular product within a brand, not an entire industry. A more appropriate analogy would be if Apple were to somehow force all miniaturized electronics suppliers to no longer supply Samsung and other manufacturers, so that Apple could be the only company to produce smartphones. In this case, Apple is forcing suppliers to not work with independent repair companies and middlemen suppliers, so that Apple can have the monopoly on the industry of repairing Apple products.
Vision of the future: if manufacturers are forced to back off on limiting component supply then they are just going to build their products with all the component numbers erased. I am surprised apple haven't thought of this already.
@@Alucard-gt1zf To add to my other reply, you seem to be confusing phone repair with much easier repairs to your home computer where you can simply socket in a new CPU or sticks of RAM. Smartphones (especially iPhones) are made to be VERY particular about the exact parts that can go into them, and are usually soldered directly into the circuit board. You can't just go down to your local parts shop and pick up a new or different processor or whatever like you can do with PCs that are designed to accept a variety of parts and suppliers thereof.
I strongly believe this should be the standard response in any forum thread or discussion, where, in response to right to repair, someone says _"What about the warranty?"_ Let's make it happen!
Louis, asking sincerely in the interest of transparency, do you receive compensation (beyond expenses) from your advocacy organization? I genuinely have no idea, but if you do, probably better to draw a line in the sand and mention it early, put it in some sort of context, rather than it come out now. If not, even better to clarify.
@@MagnusReinhardt And what do I do if the defect prevents the ports from working so I can't make backups anymore, moron? I had that very issue not long ago but got lucky.
@@Worse_than_you_can_imagine But only after the original machine comes into the shop, *then* they send out the refurb. So at least one week up to two weeks or more without a machine to work with.
@@elineblind348 Likely an isolated groan from the phone conversation Mr. Rossmann had with the NYDCA/NYDCWP representative. The employee had some issue(s) responding to the inquiries, to say the least.
Haven't even watched the video yet, but stuff the warranty! They can't void the warranty anyway and we offer a warranty on our work! At least any decent technician does
I do...and it's better than the factory's. I always use better parts than the manufacturer does, tighter tolerances and higher temp/humidity specs. I'm repairing a single unit and component cost is generally not a deciding factor for me. I will use a 70 cent capacitor to replace their blown 2 cent unit.
@@CHMichael right and i think even Louis will void his own warranty on repairs if you do that. Plus Louis only offers a 3 month warranty on what he fixes. Why such liited time? Why not 1 year?
a great example for burden of proof, you replace the tires on your car, and then the dashboard/radio stops working. something that is completely unrelated and cannot void warranty
@@radfaraf Samsung does something similar to that. I wasn't able to get just the screen repaired, Samsung only provides comprehensive "repair kits" that include both the front and (WHY) REAR glass, the battery, and other parts, all that have to be used up on the same repair and can't be saved for other repairs. That's like going in for an oil change, but the car maker controls the parts supply and only sells the shops "repair kits" that include the oil and filter, air filter, spark plugs and wires, wiper blades, headlight bulbs, brakes and rotors, etc all that have to be used up along with the oil change.
@@DeathBringer769 Class action lawsuit maybe that would be worth it since the lawyers do it for free since they are expecting lots of cash for winning?
a good chunk of companies try to avoid standing behind their warranty anyways or make the whole process so complicated people don't waste their time with it. i know i bought a air hose a few months ago because it came with a 10 year warranty. glad i read some of the reviews or i would have never known to save the packaging if i actually ever need to try using the warranty.
Lenovo for the longest time answered this one perfectly. They designed their laptops to be serviceable and user upgradable. I swapped out the memory and the NVMe on my Flex 4 and they even included and empty HD cage if you wanted to install a second SSD or 2.5" hard drive - heck you could even swap the battery and the entire mainboard if you wanted. The rule was simple: if there's a warranty issue with their parts, restore the device to the original config and if the problem persists, send it in for warranty. That always struck me as a fair balance: the machine is yours to do what you want with it AND their warranty covers what they provided with it. Opening it up - which they made easy - and replacing parts did not void your warranty - but the warranty only covers what they provided.
I honestly don't understand how this is such a difficult concept for so many people to understand. It's simple logic! If you screwed up the repair, it's on you. If an independent repair shop screwed it up, it's on them. If the repair was done correctly and the problem is a manufacturer's defect or the manufacturer screwed up the repair, it's on them. That's how simple this is!
i only use the "warranty" if i have time to deal with official service center and free repair. if i don't have the time, i will open my stuffs to repair it myself no matter if i still have warranty or not
Side note: In the EU and UK, a warranty may be voided for any reason. However, consumers are covered by a separate legal guarantee (generally referred to as part of the buyer's Statutory Rights) which performs the same function. It requires the seller to replace or repair the device within two years (sometimes more depending on country) if a fault is found in the device that was present at the time of purchase (if this is reported within 6 months then it's the seller's responsibility to prove that the item was not faulty at purchase, otherwise it's the buyer's responsibility to prove it was).
Warranty is cool when you have it, I just had my brand new RTX 3070 prebuilt PC repaired under it few months ago for free because the power supply literally blew up, but it sucks when your device is out of warranty and that's where RTR comes in and is needed.
@@the_kombinator No, I also rarely have to use warranty, but I am just pointing out that warranty and RTR are complementary things - warranty so you can get your thing repaired for free during the warranty period and RTR so that you can get your thing repaired as cheap as possible after warranty period is over.
Warranty is better than insurance, it forces the manufacturer to design devices that last longer. For example, Europe mandated all things to have at least 2 year warranty. And so manufacturers are force to make devices that last at least 2 years. Before that, the manufacturer could give a 3 month warranty, and design things poorly that could not last even one year.
I had a girlfriend who loved iPhones, and bought the warranty (which itself is ridiculous, new products should just come with one) for her new phone. When she brought in her phone for a basic repair (broken screen that was advertised to be indestructible), they still made her pay something like $200 because the "warranty" they sold her covered basically...nothing. She apparently was supposed to buy the "premium" warranty which would have cost as much extra as she ended up paying extra to replace the screen. It's less a warranty, and more putting a down payment for the full cost of potential future repairs. She also had to go without the phone for several days, because unlike Samsung whose authorized repair shop was able to sit down and replace my screen right then while I got lunch, Apple made their shop the next day overnight the phone to a remote repair facility, who did the repair, overnighted it back to the shop, who then called her the following day to come in to pick it up.
I do warranty repair on kitchen appliances in norway. Some brands are more strict than others, but because of the strict consumer laws in here in Norway they are mostly easy going. Like with the brand I do most of my reprairs on, we do alot of good will repairs when the consumer have overloaded the device. Now when the customer has opened the device and fucked something up the warranty is ofc over. But most of the time when the customer has opened it them selves they usually deliver it while its opened. Then you have the ones that start opening it the same year they bought it then take pictures of it and send it to us when they register it for service -.-
1:00 Point of fact, My 2008 Kenmore Microwave has the schematic and trouble shooting information in a bag inside. My furnace also includes schematics inside the door. This seems more dangerous then battery powered tech and neither have a "VOID if broken" seal.
To be pedantic what these appliances include is most likely a chassis wiring diagram instead of a schematic. Most of the components are contained on control boards and I doubt you have the schematics on those. Regarding these being more dangerous, that's likely part of why they include service information. Improper service (for example: bypassing a broken microwave safety interlock or flame sensor) could result in _actual_ unsafe conditions and companies don't want their name to be tarnished by this.
Well I learned something today. When you think about it the notion that removing a sticker or opening anything up suddenly means a warranty, a promise the manufacturer will replace something if it breaks their word it is GOOD for a period of time, seems a bit silly. And I can certainly see why manufacturers do it as a means to filter out people who did break their own stuff then try to have it warrantied, but just because it's rational doesn't mean it's legal or right.
"it's harder than you think, even if you are paying well" As a manager who hires, I always sideways look at customers/other employees who say "why dont you just hire someone?" Also, I work at a dealership and am very aware of the Magnuson Moss warranty act and have had to instruct advisors on their verbiage about "that will void your warranty...."
My sweet home Nebraska, we repair, thank you and Erika waving off screen made me laugh. Mods or makers, are in our lifeblood. I hot rod everything and I am good at it. I also enjoy the rides around town. How can the world not be aware. You and Chris Chapel are my favorites.
Very good information. Thank you. I believe this can be applied to pocket knives aswell. I know some companies allowed you to work on the tool because they couldn’t do to the rona. Same thing can’t get parts. A lot less parts on a pocket tool then a device. Have a good day to all.
It blows my mind that regular people are going out of their way to fight with you on these issues. I’m fairly certain you’ve reiterated the very thing I’m about to say many times, but why would anyone argue against something, like right to repair, that is so clearly in their interests? I’m grateful there is someone as knowledgeable and measured in their approach as you at the forefront of this debate, thank you for your efforts.
I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head as to why customers / culture doesn't universally accept right to repair. The average user will have to play middleman between the repair man and the manufacture in a warranty dispute about an item they know nothing about.
In videogame console/accessory repair, until today I never had an issue finding board-level parts. I need a very specific fpc zif connector and the manufacturer(molex) doesn't offer the part to consumers. Have to buy a knockoff part or harvest one from an already otherwise damaged unit. Love your vids, Mr. Rossmann😺
I recently bought a Yamaha Jet ski and was told by the dealer if they don't perform the 10-hour service (Oil change, spark plug check, and steering cable check) for $300 it would void the warranty. They said after that, anyone can do the service. Funny how the manual does not mention that anywhere.
I was a service tech for a wide format printer manufacturer. The policy was to void warranty in case the client used third-party ink, which sure are cheap but sadly are mostly crap, still very common cause that company sold ink as if it was liquid gold, 50% of the gross income. Thankfully at the time I was the one to go there and call foul when needed, so I've never bothered anyone to replace a failed motor on the house even if they used raspberry juice for magenta or piss for yellow, but yeah... that was against policy (on a 13-100k€ printer). Now, printhead fails, it's on you, and by experience third party ink caused it, so there's nothing wrong with that. Just hope you've saved enough buying piss instead of gold to cover the cost.
Two points I would like to make: 1. What if something happens while you are under warranty (like water damage, dropping the device, power outrage that fries a circuit etc.). In many instances, you could just change a small part of the device. 2. What about after the device warranty? Most of phone warranties available are from 6 months to 1 year. What about after that period?
This law applies to more than just electronics. It is basically any consumer good valued at more than $25 sold to a consumer for personal use. I am dealing with a furniture store with a similar issue where I bought furniture, paid them extra to deliver and put it together, they did not put it together correctly and had missing parts and they are claiming that since I used my bare hand to tighten up a loose leg on a piece of furniture, then my entire warranty is voided and they will not fix the issue or replace the parts that were missing to begin with
In Australia, Canon (I think) lost a case about unrelated repairs voiding warranty. Ford as well I think. You can't claim that one unrelated item voided the warranty on something else that failed.
The big problem with Magnus and Moss warranty act is it is paywalled by the legal system, if you want to get something repaired under the warranty and they come back with "you broke the sicker, sue is if you want it fixed", it'll cost you way more than the device, and my very limited understanding is that costs are not usually included in the judgement for these cases, which will likely be in the thousands, which is why most people just say "fine, i'll buy another" or "i'll buy your competitor's product then".
These tech reviewers on TH-cam keep pushing the backwards narrative that "user upgrade = warranty void" They take it for granted, they don't even question it. Tinker = void warranty
@@rossmanngroup off the top of my head : RTU and Lon TV in their recent videos about the steam deck, where the storage is upgradable but the OEM says "not meant for user upgrade". The OEM is free to say whatever but these people mention warranty when the OEM does not. Like "yeah the storage might be upgradable but that might void your warranty" or "will this void your warranty?" (Asking the question even though it's illegal to void) And please let's not minimise "unprofessional hardware" or leisure items , the message is the same either way, it makes people believe in the lie. Not to say they are bad people or reviewers but criticism is criticism, and I've been noticing this warranty boogeyman increasingly since I started paying attention to r2r and learned that voiding warranty is actually illegal. Safe to assume 100% of the population also believed this lie at some point
@@rossmanngroup th-cam.com/video/OKhfZd5HDkY/w-d-xo.html this is the first example which comes to mind. His second sentence is about the voided warrenty. But i am pretty sure there are better examples.
Australia has a 2 year warranty for all electronics, to reduce e-waste and stop companies designing products that last 1.1 years, but we also need RtR.
I agree with you 99%, except one minor nit. I still find schematics and parts lists folded up and tucked away in appliances (e.g. microwaves, ovens, fridges) as recently as the last 10 years. Not sure if/when that stopped but it wasn't the '90s.
I work as a repair engineer for a certain computer component manufacturer and I have handled products with missing bios chips and mosfets that were clearly removed by them and then claiming warranty for those. While we void the warranty for those, we still cover the warranty even for the obvious damage that was done by the costumer, even oxidation. And I still wonder why some people still talks shit about our service.
In Serbia, if your car battery dies due to car being left sitting for a month, you jump start and you replace that battery with some other batty with SAME CHARACTESTICS, they void your warranty at next service.
The warranty is *absolutely* integral to right to repair. Nobody can stop you from modifying or altering anything you want. You're in possession of the device, enjoy yourself. The issue is whether the vendor is compelled to support unauthorized modifications to your device. It's not the *only* issue, but all the issues involved devolve back to that issue. It's not the lizard, continuing the metaphor, it's the sewer line from your house. If going to a third-party repair facility violates your warranty or your license (as in, the terms under which the vendor will fix or interoperate with your device), then what incentive do they have to authorize the manufacture of spare parts? if you, as a third party, want to pay some fab to make the parts, go ahead! Nobody can stop you. Compelling a device vendor to share schematics or produce spares isn't a *right*. When HP or Cisco produces documentation for authorized repair people, they're doing it because it's in their interest, not for the charitable benefit of grey market shops who will also get ahold of that documentation, the internet being what it is. Nobody can *stop* you from modifying a device in your possession, and there are no "repair police" which will come to your house to take away your stuff when you do so. But the vendor absolutely *can* withhold their cooperation with whatever you are doing, and there are legitimate reasons for doing so. One is license compliance. Got a 4K TV? Then it has a HDCP chip, and if you vandalize that chip to permit you to make high-quality duplicates of licensed content, the vendor who made the TV has an obligation to make that not work. I won't defend every scummy practice undertaken in the personal electronics field, but if you think this is going to be solved by legislation, you're going to be bitterly disappointed. In the highly unlikely event effective legislation is passed (because every electronics and computer company on the planet is going to lobby against this), it will immediately get challenged in court and get bounced, and when it reaches the SCOTUS, it will go down 6 - 3, because look at who's on the bench. The real remedy for these device lockdown practices is to change who you buy stuff from. Support open standards and open-source software, so that when you buy a device, it's sold on the undertaking that the vendor doesn't care what software you install and run on it. You can root any unlocked Android-based phone, because the OS is open-source. You can find instructions right here: source.android.com/setup/build/running. The solution to scummy business practices is to stop doing business with scumbags.
I think an important point you missed right there is, if I have warranty on a Device, i will most likely not go to an independent repair shop to get my device fixed but have it fixed by the manufacturer for free under warranty, so aside from upgrading your device with an ssd or a device entering an exdended warranty because the manufacturer built in a faulty chip right to repair is especially important for devices that are out of warranty aniway
Louis, the beginning of illustration about the Apple laptop and the Apple phone.... Yes you are correct in your illustration. Also in the days when they had the schematic, that when I learned how to do electronic way back in the days because of the schematics that came with the electronic until they quit sending the schematic with the electronic devices. But if somebody brought me something for me to fix I will fix it that's including a big TV flat screen or a laptop, but I gave up the tablets and phone last year.
I definitly learned something. I did not know anyone wiuld ask about the warrenty when it comes to repair since most things that require repair seem to break on the day aftwr the warrwnty ends. I am old enough to remember va ume tubes, tube testers and that there were placement diagrams with tube numbers in side the TV near the high voltage sections. I had to replace the belt on my dryer in the last year and to my amazement, there isn't even the hookup to power sticker inside it and it is over 5 years old. I am definitly for right to repair from amfinancial standpoint of I am willing to not hand over my money to people that make ' modern electronics ' as if it is a fancy Bic pen ie. it will break and you buy another at too much money for something that could be repaired.
Warranty Void stickers are only there to stop people who don't know they're illegal. Which is actually A LOT of people. This cuts down down on their warranty returns by a huge amount as those people won't even try to return stuff.
I replaced a macbook logicboard under the extended warranty for the GPU failing on a 17 inch 2011 back in 2015 in Canada at a apple store. The store said it was perfectly fine for me to bring it in without a hard drive in it at all even. they only care if physical damage is obvious to the device. They did even tell me the screen can be damaged but as long as the part that's failed is the part covered by the warranty it will still be replaced. They would just leave me with a broken screen.
That sticker which states: "Warranty void if sticker broken" is itself illegal. The trouble is, no one has the resources to fight this. I suggest you post the act that states this warranty isn't void unless manufacturers can prove you messed it up, as a link and source. This will help people a lot in fighting the bullshit.
The FTC has the resources to fight this. You let them know if you have a company pulling this crap on you. It won't really help your specific case, but eventually the FTC will come for said company.
To many who say this, the expiration date of the warranty is the expiration date of the product. They don't understand that some of us don't care at all about the warranty. We know that in most cases there might as well not be a warranty because the manufacturer will try to make the process as difficult as possible to try to get us to give up and just buy a new one. I personally never bother. I am happy to open a device and mess with it the day I buy it (and if I screw it up, that is on me), and if a device fails "under warranty" I pretty much never try to use the warranty.
And that's what I do as well, hell I bought the laptop I'm typing this on and immediately after first boot I opened it up to see the upgrade options and to install a second drive. YOU SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID TO OPEN SOMETHING YOU BOUGHT AND PAYED FOR. PERIOD.
IF a product has a super long warranty which covers the expected lifetime of the product (it lasts until the product becomes obsolete, or, until the product becomes so worn out that it's not worth repairing, then right to repair might not be a very important issue for that product, but that isn't relevant to the vast majority of products). Long warranties are already very rare, but warranties which last longer than the lifetime of the product are even rarer. Rarer still is a warranty which covers multiple repairs or replacements. After the first repair or replacement, that's often the end of the warranty, even if it's only in the first year of a five year warranty (common with storage drives, for example).
I remember when I bought an Atari 1040ST in the early 80's, in the late 80's it died. I was an electronics tech for an oilfield service company, and I had a power supply with 5V, and 12V outputs, so I broke it open, and wired in the supply, which worked fine, and the machine kept running until I just quit using it. Warranties usually are planned to run out right before the planned obsolescence of certain components. In the same 80's time frame, companies who manufactured washing machines went to a plastic coupling device for the motor to transmission linkage, which was very well engineered to fail on day 91. I fixed several of these that cost about 15 dollars for the part, and 5 minutes to fix, they have long since dropped that scam. Let's face it most Product Corporations are quite corrupt. I can fix anything, so I am not affected, except when the parts are no longer available. I am pleased to know that You are fighting to keep that from happening. Don't get me started on GE defrost timer "circuit boards" for Refrigerators. Just because the individual has an engineering degree, does not mean he, or she is competent.🤦♂️
All very reasonable. Spent 5 years with a manufacturer responsible for service channel training in the early 1990s. What you said made perfect sense. Right to repair is entirely reasonable.
In the US at least,many still don’t know that the 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty law also makes warranty void stickers illegal (sadly, my Xbox 360 got red-ring of death’s, and Microsoft would not warranty the device despite still being in warranty & their reason was that the warranty guidance sticker was broken (it was slightly scratched along the seal, but still 90% intact); and I sadly had no choice but a new one because Microsoft wouldn’t follow the law and I definitely didn’t have the money (or brains) to fight them in court over an Xbox 360 as a 12 year old.
The FTC is supposed to regulate and enforce such things, dating back to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act in the 70s like you pointed out, but they've almost never meaningfully enforced it legally with any substantial weight. I'm worried the same thing will happen with Right to Repair, regardless of the the FTC says or gets put into law.
plus the fact that most of time when someone comes to see or any other repair shop, it's b/c the device is not under warranty anymore otherwise the manufacturer would have fixed it under said warranty.
Solid answer, I think you could have gone further though. Under the current situation where makers are actively preventing owners from correctly repairing their devices they likely obtain some liability for repairs done incorrectly, and regardless of the more direct bad repair are responsible for its failure. If anything, hardware vendors being required to give usable access to owners prevents them from being liable for botched repair/upgrade jobs.
Louis, you may also want to mention that it is not the manufacturer that decides if your warranty is void or not. The manufacturer has to prove this to the Federal Trade Commission, only then can the FTC declare that your warranty isn't void.
Back in 2014, I signed a contract for a “new” free Samsung S5 (seen the salesperson cut the celo off the box!) to replace my then software deteriorated iPhone 4S which was only 2 years old (another free device). Was the best smart phone that I had ever used for the first 3 weeks, then it bricked out of nowhere (endless boot loops). Brought it to the carrier, who sent it away and issued a loner S5 whilst it was repaired. It came back 2 weeks later with an unrepaired motherboard (and a $500 price tag) because the device was found to be rooted. Which confused me (at the time not knowing what the term even meant) and annoyed me since I assumed that Samsung was trying to skip out on a repair. Not having any other recourse, I ended up buying out the $700 or so FREE contract and signed for a G4. I then opened a complaint with the better business bureau, while also hitting Google and seeing what in the hell rooting was (and how to prove a device is or isn’t). Needless to say, there is lots of information for people intentionally rooting devices. But I only found one other story of someone eating it on a rooted device deemed uncoverable by Samsung. And most importantly, I found out about the Knox counter. Since I was buying a brand new device (so I thought!), it should be 0x0. The problem was, it was 0x1, custom firmware. Samsung refused to do anything but refer me to the Manuel where it forbids device rooting. My carrier store essentially said that they couldn’t do anything about it. And 5 years later, I finally recycled the device and swallowed the hit, not seeing any recourse I could pursue. I fully intended to dump the carrier and the store after the G4 contract ended. But it turned out that I didn’t have to. My then carrier was absorbed by another big Canadian carrier, and I ended up getting transitioned to another carrier due to monopoly laws I think (no company can hold too much market share). Though I would have love to have ditched the store, it ended up changing carriers as well. But since this new carrier has never given me problems, I’ve made peace with it. Funny thing about the G4 . . . It also bricked at one point, which was horrifying. But it turns out that almost every other one in existence also had the same problem. So again, no issue in fixing that phone. In fact, that phone still works for my dad to this day. Thus, companies I will never buy from again are: -Samsung /LG -Apple IDE be tempted to add Motorola to the list for having a phone that’s hard to repair, but that is hardly a unique problem lol.
@@Valreg ….I don't need to see direct evidence, I just know it's true! I like beating them at that game. I do the prediction and decide based on that and gut feel. If it's a $$$ piece of gear, I consult with a real expert before buying any warranty crap.
Speaking about warranties, I never understood why certain car mfgs do not honor warranties just because there's a different owner. That seems like BS. They are warrantying the vehicle, not the person. Weird.
@@the_kombinator Kia switches to a shorter version of the warranty from a 10 yr / 100k mile limited powertrain to a 5 yr / 60k mile. That's what I mean. Car mfg aren't the only ones who do this, but just super obvious when it's a car. I just think that's BS. It doesn't matter who bought the damn car, the warranty should stay the same.
It is also a non-argument. Manufactures will already find any excuse to deny you a warranty, or design the device in such a way that any component covered by it will not break for the duration. E.g. If you crack your screen, that is never covered under a warranty, you need to pay out of pocket or have insurance. Or the battery, it has enough overhead to last 2-3 years until the warranty runs out. Same for the lifespan of capacitor or fan bearings. They are designed and manufactured with a lifespan that is 6-12 months longer than the warranty period.
The logic should be if you provide warranty then you provide full repair. However if you go outside that you should void the warranty but everything should be accesible via 1st or 3rd party.
TLDR if your warranty is active. U take it to the repair facility of the company… Right to repair helps outside of warranties the most. And helps force companies prevent you from only using them even out of the warranty. Effectively controlling pricing and preventing a consumer market.
We put a de facto warranty on all our repairs and we respect them because we can't manage the bad publicity. Big companies can do what they want, it won't unfortunately bankrupt them.
If anything right to repair should enhance warranty. The repair shop should have to issue some warranty on the repair, based on what was replaced. With a normal (2 year?) warranty for new parts, and lowered warranty for refurbished/donor parts. So you keep the normal warranty and have a new warranty on fixed parts. Sounds like a good deal to me, and it keeps repair shops honest and diligent.
Illegal or not, it's what HP did to me, though. I replaced the slow ass SSHDD from HP with an SSD. A year later the screen died (and I even payed for extender warranty after the replacement) and they just said; Nope. You've voided the warranty. -- It should be noted I'm a certified software and hardware expert.
HP has always been completely garbage. I have no idea why they have a good reputation or why anyone buys from them. Every HP product I've encountered has been trash and getting warranty repairs from them is trash. The last HP product I ever bought with my own money was a printer that died within warranty, and HP told me to go out and find my own repair shop instead of sending me out a box with a shipping label like any reasonable company would. Despite that, family and work have had HP products, and they're still just as crap. HP laptop that fell apart. HP computer that keeps blowing power supplies. HP printers that constantly jam, or stop receiving print requests until you power cycle, or make ink/toner messes even with official HP overpriced refills. HP is a complete waste of time and money.
@@mjc0961 I almost completely agree. But HP has had the faster laptops for a while and also clearly stolen apple's design features, so that's probably how they got their reputation
Just had to let go of my vintage bowman box fan. Cuz I can't find any one that would try, or anything online really instilling confidence that will fix it
Please, please, please, pleease, make another video going into more detail on the laws surrounding warranty void. If it really is illegal to void warranty based on non-user faults, it would be amazing to know how to get a company to pay for those nom-user faults, even when work has been done by the user and a warranty void sticker has been removed. As someone who often deals with devices with these stickers, knowing the process of getting a warranty covered even when work has been done would be great.
The liability waver on the back of your amusement ride ticket is not enforceable as well. If they don't maintain their rides and you get hurt, you can still sue them.
Lol, when my 2008 MacBook Pro graphics chip died 3 years later, the apple store made me put the original ram sticks back in the computer before they would fix it. I’m just glad I hadn’t resold them
Imagine if people were as concerned about the warranty on clothes. You can get any garment altered to fit your body and nobody cares! You just can’t return it to the store. How silly would it be for Forever 21 to send lobbyists to congress to fight against right to tailor? Or how absurd we’d say it was if Wranglers confiscated buttons from third party seamstresses.
What your videos have convinced me of more than anything: People don't want consumer rights, they don't want to have longevity for their devices, they don't want protection against anti-consumer acts & designs. What they do want is "premium feel" and to have the opportunity to kiss their favorite company's ass more than they do. Why, is everyone arguing every point that is in THE CONSUMER'S FAVOR? Something we've had in devices for YEARS- NONE of this is new people, holy cow.
Lenovo's premiere warranty is so good, you don't have to worry about right to repair. My screen starts to bleed around the edge, I call and they literally come to my house and replace the screen in front of me. Even then, you can still get the chips for Lenovo computers if you wanted to fix it.
Having my display replaced on my 2018 but it had a scratch so it was denied but the genius bar was "nice" enough to cover it on the house. Oh what a society we live in, pixel bleeding caused by a superficial scratch.
I repaired an IP68 certified phone with water damaged screen under warranty today because the glue holding the screen wasn't as watertight as it should have been.
And they don’t cover normal wear and tear and accidental damage. Warranties do cover defects in manufacture and workmanship. In other words, if its something the manufacturer goofed up, that’s where the warranty is made good.
@@NormanF62 A great example of that is the cooling fans in the apple laptops that don't cool anything while the laptop over heats. That's why apple gives soooo many refunds.
I'd like to know what you think of Marijuana and if you've ever used it in your life. I do microsoldering on random projects, such as installing a modchip on my switch, soldering directly to the cpu. Baked as hell. Works great.
I’m one of those people that got screwed over by the 2011 graphics chip in the MacBook Pro. It would constantly have problems and every time it was being looked at by then it never exhibited. Until it finally failed after their extended warranty period and they refused to do anything about it and offered for me to pay a crazy amount for a logicboard replacement. I don’t believe they even fixed the replacements they will die a horrible death again. Planned obsolescence and no right to repair is exactly what all these companies want so you’re forced to buy new when what you have is perfectly ok if you can fix it.
If a customer brings me a malfunctioning computer that is still under warranty I don´t even bother to diagnose it. Maybe I will make a backup of the data but other than that I tell them to take it to the store.
They need to make parts modular so the end user can replace them themselves. Like imagine an iPhone screen that just slid off. You can buy an iPhone and it may come with 2 free screens and a battery in the box. You can just slide the screen off and put a new one on without any tools. Or eject a battery and place in a new one. So you can have a charged battery on standby and be fully charged while you are at Disneyland you don't have to sit at an outlet for 4 hours charging like a Tesla car.
And a car loan application can include a clause that says they can send vinny and tony to your house to break your thumbs. Just because it can be written, doesn't mean it would be legal. Yes, warranty specs CAN be written that way, but it would violate laws and the company would be chewed up for it. There's a reason no warranty is written that way. You're not the first person to consider it.
my grandpa, grandma, dad and mom young tell me warranty back then is real, company really care for their consumer but now day warranty just to get extra buck while shorted the warranty date.
I love how this is right to repair info with a little but of Louis's life problems sprinkled in like his cat eating to much and people working for the department of consumer affairs who haven't had a drug test in a while
Thank god I live in Finland. Here we have mandatory 2 year warranty on all electronics plus many of our carriers give additional 1 year on top of that. Competition works out for consumer, who would have thought. I would never spend 1000€ on an iPhone if I couldn’t get 3 year warranty…
Warranties and the right to repair are somewhat linked by the prohibion on tying arrangments in the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act bans tying arrangements that void a customer's warranty for merely repairing their product at a non-OEM facility or with non-OEM parts, unless those OEM parts or repairs are provided free of charge. Tying arrangments are there to discourage people from repairing their products and encourage planned obselescence. They are illegal, but, because the MMWA is complex, and the FTC is very understaffed, the MMWA is almost never enforced.
5:51
Why is there a random moan? That legitimately scared the crap outta me. Lmao
I'm not sure how.
yea I also noticed that thoght smb is hacking me XDD
Thats a moan from louis breaking the brain of someone while on the phone trying to understand a fine he received
@@89lutzy Just remembered it.
Yes, the DCA person expresses his enthusiasm right here: th-cam.com/video/yi8_9WGk3Ok/w-d-xo.html
:)
I'm fairly certain it's the person he was talking about at that moment.
2:30 Sirens perfectly timed with Louis saying that's illegal
It has already been ruled that the company must prove you caused the failure in order to void the warranty. The ruling came from the "warranty void if sticker removed" nonsense.
Yep, all that's needed is to enforce the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
The CEOs (feds) runs the government corporations while the working class & poor gets screwed ovef.
@@mrleafbeef634 👍👍
@@mrleafbeef634 over
You forget the "reality moderator". In many cases they will claim warranty is void and then you need to have deep pockets to take them to court and prove otherwise. Most of the time litigation is a load more than the value of the item so the consumer just gives up.
It blows my mind how strong arming parts suppliers into not dealing with your competitors isn't ruled as an illegal monopoly and anti-competitive practices. It's the literal textbook definition of those things.
But it isn't though, they are only doing it to parts used in their phones only (enforced by patern right). You can still buy other chips that funtion the same, just not that specific one therefor not a monopoly
Its like saying apple is a monopoly because they are the only suppliers of iphones
@@Alucard-gt1zf Found the Apple shill/fanboy.
1. WTF do you mean by "patern right"? Do you mean patent? I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't own the patents on the third party parts they source from suppliers. They threaten the parts suppliers with not doing business with them anymore if they also sell to anyone else, which the suppliers only agree to because Apple is a huge source of income for them.
2. No, you literally can't still buy other chips that "funtion" the same. Apple's been known to brick your products for even sourcing another identical part salvaged from an identical donor machine. If this were possible, don't you think Louis would be doing that already and not complaining about Apple's stranglehold on supplies? Louis has gotten in trouble for even trying to ship in functionally identical batteries that would work in Apple products (Apple claimed it would lead to counterfeiting), and frequently complains about the ONLY available source for working replacement components is from scrap machines he can salvage for parts.
3. "Its like saying apple is a monopoly because they are the only suppliers of iphones" That's not true in the slightest, and you clearly don't have a clue what an illegal monopoly is. No one is asking to produce iPhones as a whole product, and the iPhone is a singular product within a brand, not an entire industry. A more appropriate analogy would be if Apple were to somehow force all miniaturized electronics suppliers to no longer supply Samsung and other manufacturers, so that Apple could be the only company to produce smartphones. In this case, Apple is forcing suppliers to not work with independent repair companies and middlemen suppliers, so that Apple can have the monopoly on the industry of repairing Apple products.
Vision of the future: if manufacturers are forced to back off on limiting component supply then they are just going to build their products with all the component numbers erased. I am surprised apple haven't thought of this already.
You forgot hijacking the prices
@@Alucard-gt1zf To add to my other reply, you seem to be confusing phone repair with much easier repairs to your home computer where you can simply socket in a new CPU or sticks of RAM. Smartphones (especially iPhones) are made to be VERY particular about the exact parts that can go into them, and are usually soldered directly into the circuit board. You can't just go down to your local parts shop and pick up a new or different processor or whatever like you can do with PCs that are designed to accept a variety of parts and suppliers thereof.
WHAT ABOUT THE LIZARD?!
I strongly believe this should be the standard response in any forum thread or discussion, where, in response to right to repair, someone says _"What about the warranty?"_
Let's make it happen!
@@rossmanngroup but still....what about the lizard!?
@@rossmanngroup Thank You for fighting the good fight for right to repair
The lizard appears at 5:52
Louis, asking sincerely in the interest of transparency, do you receive compensation (beyond expenses) from your advocacy organization? I genuinely have no idea, but if you do, probably better to draw a line in the sand and mention it early, put it in some sort of context, rather than it come out now. If not, even better to clarify.
Just a side note:
the warranty void sticker is actually illegal.
oh so that is why i don't see it anymore
Just a side note to your side note, that's basically what Louis just explained in this video
So basically they can bend the pins while “inspecting” the device and then point the blame 🤪
Is the sticker itself illegal? I thought it was just the act of voiding warranty that was illegal - stickers are just stickers
It gives me as much of a thrill to rip those warranty void stickers off as it does to rip tags off pillows and mattresses! 😂
As long as warranty simply means "we'll replace the entire machine for free and destroy your data" I say shove that warranty up your rear end.
back up your data
just do backups moron.
@@MagnusReinhardt And what do I do if the defect prevents the ports from working so I can't make backups anymore, moron?
I had that very issue not long ago but got lucky.
@@DevinDTV And what do I do if the defect prevents the ports from working?
I had that very issue not long ago but got lucky.
@@Worse_than_you_can_imagine But only after the original machine comes into the shop, *then* they send out the refurb.
So at least one week up to two weeks or more without a machine to work with.
The gentleman's bewildered groan around the 5:50 mark was a nice touch.
Ya what the fk was that.
@@elineblind348 Likely an isolated groan from the phone conversation Mr. Rossmann had with the NYDCA/NYDCWP representative. The employee had some issue(s) responding to the inquiries, to say the least.
Haven't even watched the video yet, but stuff the warranty! They can't void the warranty anyway and we offer a warranty on our work! At least any decent technician does
Warranty, what warranty?
Like Tavarish
"I AM the warranty"
I do...and it's better than the factory's. I always use better parts than the manufacturer does, tighter tolerances and higher temp/humidity specs. I'm repairing a single unit and component cost is generally not a deciding factor for me. I will use a 70 cent capacitor to replace their blown 2 cent unit.
@@CHMichael right and i think even Louis will void his own warranty on repairs if you do that. Plus Louis only offers a 3 month warranty on what he fixes. Why such liited time? Why not 1 year?
"My screen broke after I turned it on"
a great example for burden of proof, you replace the tires on your car, and then the dashboard/radio stops working. something that is completely unrelated and cannot void warranty
we all know they would really like if they could get away with pulling that though!
@@radfaraf Samsung does something similar to that. I wasn't able to get just the screen repaired, Samsung only provides comprehensive "repair kits" that include both the front and (WHY) REAR glass, the battery, and other parts, all that have to be used up on the same repair and can't be saved for other repairs. That's like going in for an oil change, but the car maker controls the parts supply and only sells the shops "repair kits" that include the oil and filter, air filter, spark plugs and wires, wiper blades, headlight bulbs, brakes and rotors, etc all that have to be used up along with the oil change.
@@Kune35 Ah, you broke your fridge? Sorry, we gotta replace your *home* and the fridge!
@@Kune35 Sounds like a scheme to make more money off selling parts. But look you got so many!! Yeah but I only need 1 part out of 15.
@@DeathBringer769 Class action lawsuit maybe that would be worth it since the lawyers do it for free since they are expecting lots of cash for winning?
Louis, I want a T-shirt that says, "What About the Lizard!?!"
I would buy it
I’d buy it
everyone would buy it
@@DeepFriedLemonWedges Shut up and take my money already!
but what about dragons?
I found the schematics for my ThinkPad in the official Lenovo forums. Fixed a single fuse and the device is still running perfectly
a good chunk of companies try to avoid standing behind their warranty anyways or make the whole process so complicated people don't waste their time with it. i know i bought a air hose a few months ago because it came with a 10 year warranty. glad i read some of the reviews or i would have never known to save the packaging if i actually ever need to try using the warranty.
Lenovo for the longest time answered this one perfectly. They designed their laptops to be serviceable and user upgradable. I swapped out the memory and the NVMe on my Flex 4 and they even included and empty HD cage if you wanted to install a second SSD or 2.5" hard drive - heck you could even swap the battery and the entire mainboard if you wanted. The rule was simple: if there's a warranty issue with their parts, restore the device to the original config and if the problem persists, send it in for warranty.
That always struck me as a fair balance: the machine is yours to do what you want with it AND their warranty covers what they provided with it. Opening it up - which they made easy - and replacing parts did not void your warranty - but the warranty only covers what they provided.
I honestly don't understand how this is such a difficult concept for so many people to understand. It's simple logic! If you screwed up the repair, it's on you. If an independent repair shop screwed it up, it's on them. If the repair was done correctly and the problem is a manufacturer's defect or the manufacturer screwed up the repair, it's on them. That's how simple this is!
i only use the "warranty" if i have time to deal with official service center and free repair. if i don't have the time, i will open my stuffs to repair it myself no matter if i still have warranty or not
Side note: In the EU and UK, a warranty may be voided for any reason.
However, consumers are covered by a separate legal guarantee (generally referred to as part of the buyer's Statutory Rights) which performs the same function. It requires the seller to replace or repair the device within two years (sometimes more depending on country) if a fault is found in the device that was present at the time of purchase (if this is reported within 6 months then it's the seller's responsibility to prove that the item was not faulty at purchase, otherwise it's the buyer's responsibility to prove it was).
Warranty is cool when you have it, I just had my brand new RTX 3070 prebuilt PC repaired under it few months ago for free because the power supply literally blew up, but it sucks when your device is out of warranty and that's where RTR comes in and is needed.
@@the_kombinator No, I also rarely have to use warranty, but I am just pointing out that warranty and RTR are complementary things - warranty so you can get your thing repaired for free during the warranty period and RTR so that you can get your thing repaired as cheap as possible after warranty period is over.
The "Warranty" is about as good as the "Insurance" people are sold. Any and every which way the can void it, they will do. That is what happens.
Well said
Warranty is better than insurance, it forces the manufacturer to design devices that last longer. For example, Europe mandated all things to have at least 2 year warranty. And so manufacturers are force to make devices that last at least 2 years. Before that, the manufacturer could give a 3 month warranty, and design things poorly that could not last even one year.
Saying stuff like this is purely stupid.
@@DrBernon Warranty is also the confidence of a company.
And the 2 year warranty policy in EU is really effective.
I had a girlfriend who loved iPhones, and bought the warranty (which itself is ridiculous, new products should just come with one) for her new phone. When she brought in her phone for a basic repair (broken screen that was advertised to be indestructible), they still made her pay something like $200 because the "warranty" they sold her covered basically...nothing. She apparently was supposed to buy the "premium" warranty which would have cost as much extra as she ended up paying extra to replace the screen. It's less a warranty, and more putting a down payment for the full cost of potential future repairs. She also had to go without the phone for several days, because unlike Samsung whose authorized repair shop was able to sit down and replace my screen right then while I got lunch, Apple made their shop the next day overnight the phone to a remote repair facility, who did the repair, overnighted it back to the shop, who then called her the following day to come in to pick it up.
I do warranty repair on kitchen appliances in norway. Some brands are more strict than others, but because of the strict consumer laws in here in Norway they are mostly easy going. Like with the brand I do most of my reprairs on, we do alot of good will repairs when the consumer have overloaded the device. Now when the customer has opened the device and fucked something up the warranty is ofc over. But most of the time when the customer has opened it them selves they usually deliver it while its opened. Then you have the ones that start opening it the same year they bought it then take pictures of it and send it to us when they register it for service -.-
1:00 Point of fact, My 2008 Kenmore Microwave has the schematic and trouble shooting information in a bag inside. My furnace also includes schematics inside the door. This seems more dangerous then battery powered tech and neither have a "VOID if broken" seal.
To be pedantic what these appliances include is most likely a chassis wiring diagram instead of a schematic. Most of the components are contained on control boards and I doubt you have the schematics on those.
Regarding these being more dangerous, that's likely part of why they include service information. Improper service (for example: bypassing a broken microwave safety interlock or flame sensor) could result in _actual_ unsafe conditions and companies don't want their name to be tarnished by this.
Well I learned something today. When you think about it the notion that removing a sticker or opening anything up suddenly means a warranty, a promise the manufacturer will replace something if it breaks their word it is GOOD for a period of time, seems a bit silly. And I can certainly see why manufacturers do it as a means to filter out people who did break their own stuff then try to have it warrantied, but just because it's rational doesn't mean it's legal or right.
Nice to hear it straight.
If you broke it tough.
If I broke it while trying to fix it ! It's on me !
Thank you.
Big up the right to repair.
"it's harder than you think, even if you are paying well" As a manager who hires, I always sideways look at customers/other employees who say "why dont you just hire someone?" Also, I work at a dealership and am very aware of the Magnuson Moss warranty act and have had to instruct advisors on their verbiage about "that will void your warranty...."
My sweet home Nebraska, we repair, thank you and Erika waving off screen made me laugh. Mods or makers, are in our lifeblood. I hot rod everything and I am good at it. I also enjoy the rides around town. How can the world not be aware. You and Chris Chapel are my favorites.
Very good information. Thank you. I believe this can be applied to pocket knives aswell. I know some companies allowed you to work on the tool because they couldn’t do to the rona. Same thing can’t get parts. A lot less parts on a pocket tool then a device. Have a good day to all.
It blows my mind that regular people are going out of their way to fight with you on these issues. I’m fairly certain you’ve reiterated the very thing I’m about to say many times, but why would anyone argue against something, like right to repair, that is so clearly in their interests? I’m grateful there is someone as knowledgeable and measured in their approach as you at the forefront of this debate, thank you for your efforts.
I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head as to why customers / culture doesn't universally accept right to repair. The average user will have to play middleman between the repair man and the manufacture in a warranty dispute about an item they know nothing about.
5:51 aaaaahhh xD Thank you, Louis.
I honestly thought I was hearing things.
@@killertruth186 haha yeah me too xD
In videogame console/accessory repair, until today I never had an issue finding board-level parts. I need a very specific fpc zif connector and the manufacturer(molex) doesn't offer the part to consumers.
Have to buy a knockoff part or harvest one from an already otherwise damaged unit.
Love your vids, Mr. Rossmann😺
Just for the algorithm I like and comment in 3 seconds. The world needs to see more of this honesty
I recently bought a Yamaha Jet ski and was told by the dealer if they don't perform the 10-hour service (Oil change, spark plug check, and steering cable check) for $300 it would void the warranty. They said after that, anyone can do the service. Funny how the manual does not mention that anywhere.
I was a service tech for a wide format printer manufacturer. The policy was to void warranty in case the client used third-party ink, which sure are cheap but sadly are mostly crap, still very common cause that company sold ink as if it was liquid gold, 50% of the gross income. Thankfully at the time I was the one to go there and call foul when needed, so I've never bothered anyone to replace a failed motor on the house even if they used raspberry juice for magenta or piss for yellow, but yeah... that was against policy (on a 13-100k€ printer). Now, printhead fails, it's on you, and by experience third party ink caused it, so there's nothing wrong with that. Just hope you've saved enough buying piss instead of gold to cover the cost.
Two points I would like to make: 1. What if something happens while you are under warranty (like water damage, dropping the device, power outrage that fries a circuit etc.). In many instances, you could just change a small part of the device. 2. What about after the device warranty? Most of phone warranties available are from 6 months to 1 year. What about after that period?
This law applies to more than just electronics. It is basically any consumer good valued at more than $25 sold to a consumer for personal use. I am dealing with a furniture store with a similar issue where I bought furniture, paid them extra to deliver and put it together, they did not put it together correctly and had missing parts and they are claiming that since I used my bare hand to tighten up a loose leg on a piece of furniture, then my entire warranty is voided and they will not fix the issue or replace the parts that were missing to begin with
In Australia, Canon (I think) lost a case about unrelated repairs voiding warranty. Ford as well I think. You can't claim that one unrelated item voided the warranty on something else that failed.
The big problem with Magnus and Moss warranty act is it is paywalled by the legal system, if you want to get something repaired under the warranty and they come back with "you broke the sicker, sue is if you want it fixed", it'll cost you way more than the device, and my very limited understanding is that costs are not usually included in the judgement for these cases, which will likely be in the thousands, which is why most people just say "fine, i'll buy another" or "i'll buy your competitor's product then".
These tech reviewers on TH-cam keep pushing the backwards narrative that "user upgrade = warranty void"
They take it for granted, they don't even question it.
Tinker = void warranty
Who?
@@rossmanngroup off the top of my head : RTU and Lon TV in their recent videos about the steam deck, where the storage is upgradable but the OEM says "not meant for user upgrade". The OEM is free to say whatever but these people mention warranty when the OEM does not. Like "yeah the storage might be upgradable but that might void your warranty" or "will this void your warranty?" (Asking the question even though it's illegal to void)
And please let's not minimise "unprofessional hardware" or leisure items , the message is the same either way, it makes people believe in the lie.
Not to say they are bad people or reviewers but criticism is criticism, and I've been noticing this warranty boogeyman increasingly since I started paying attention to r2r and learned that voiding warranty is actually illegal.
Safe to assume 100% of the population also believed this lie at some point
@@rossmanngroup th-cam.com/video/OKhfZd5HDkY/w-d-xo.html this is the first example which comes to mind. His second sentence is about the voided warrenty. But i am pretty sure there are better examples.
@@rossmanngroup edited to add more details
@@j0nny80ss7 good example as far as I can tell, thanks
Australia has a 2 year warranty for all electronics, to reduce e-waste and stop companies designing products that last 1.1 years, but we also need RtR.
You are an exemplary headman for the RtR movement. Thank you.
I agree with you 99%, except one minor nit. I still find schematics and parts lists folded up and tucked away in appliances (e.g. microwaves, ovens, fridges) as recently as the last 10 years. Not sure if/when that stopped but it wasn't the '90s.
Apple after right to repair goes through: We need to hire somebody with a four year degree to check parts, and pay them 10/hr.
I mean if they want a job. Why not.
I work as a repair engineer for a certain computer component manufacturer and I have handled products with missing bios chips and mosfets that were clearly removed by them and then claiming warranty for those. While we void the warranty for those, we still cover the warranty even for the obvious damage that was done by the costumer, even oxidation. And I still wonder why some people still talks shit about our service.
In Serbia, if your car battery dies due to car being left sitting for a month, you jump start and you replace that battery with some other batty with SAME CHARACTESTICS, they void your warranty at next service.
The warranty is *absolutely* integral to right to repair. Nobody can stop you from modifying or altering anything you want. You're in possession of the device, enjoy yourself. The issue is whether the vendor is compelled to support unauthorized modifications to your device. It's not the *only* issue, but all the issues involved devolve back to that issue. It's not the lizard, continuing the metaphor, it's the sewer line from your house. If going to a third-party repair facility violates your warranty or your license (as in, the terms under which the vendor will fix or interoperate with your device), then what incentive do they have to authorize the manufacture of spare parts? if you, as a third party, want to pay some fab to make the parts, go ahead! Nobody can stop you. Compelling a device vendor to share schematics or produce spares isn't a *right*. When HP or Cisco produces documentation for authorized repair people, they're doing it because it's in their interest, not for the charitable benefit of grey market shops who will also get ahold of that documentation, the internet being what it is.
Nobody can *stop* you from modifying a device in your possession, and there are no "repair police" which will come to your house to take away your stuff when you do so. But the vendor absolutely *can* withhold their cooperation with whatever you are doing, and there are legitimate reasons for doing so. One is license compliance. Got a 4K TV? Then it has a HDCP chip, and if you vandalize that chip to permit you to make high-quality duplicates of licensed content, the vendor who made the TV has an obligation to make that not work.
I won't defend every scummy practice undertaken in the personal electronics field, but if you think this is going to be solved by legislation, you're going to be bitterly disappointed. In the highly unlikely event effective legislation is passed (because every electronics and computer company on the planet is going to lobby against this), it will immediately get challenged in court and get bounced, and when it reaches the SCOTUS, it will go down 6 - 3, because look at who's on the bench. The real remedy for these device lockdown practices is to change who you buy stuff from. Support open standards and open-source software, so that when you buy a device, it's sold on the undertaking that the vendor doesn't care what software you install and run on it. You can root any unlocked Android-based phone, because the OS is open-source. You can find instructions right here: source.android.com/setup/build/running.
The solution to scummy business practices is to stop doing business with scumbags.
I think an important point you missed right there is, if I have warranty on a Device, i will most likely not go to an independent repair shop to get my device fixed but have it fixed by the manufacturer for free under warranty, so aside from upgrading your device with an ssd or a device entering an exdended warranty because the manufacturer built in a faulty chip right to repair is especially important for devices that are out of warranty aniway
Louis, the beginning of illustration about the Apple laptop and the Apple phone.... Yes you are correct in your illustration. Also in the days when they had the schematic, that when I learned how to do electronic way back in the days because of the schematics that came with the electronic until they quit sending the schematic with the electronic devices. But if somebody brought me something for me to fix I will fix it that's including a big TV flat screen or a laptop, but I gave up the tablets and phone last year.
I did learn something! This is the video we all wanted to see/hear since you started advocating for right to repair. Keep up the hard work, Louis!
I definitly learned something. I did not know anyone wiuld ask about the warrenty when it comes to repair since most things that require repair seem to break on the day aftwr the warrwnty ends. I am old enough to remember va ume tubes, tube testers and that there were placement diagrams with tube numbers in side the TV near the high voltage sections. I had to replace the belt on my dryer in the last year and to my amazement, there isn't even the hookup to power sticker inside it and it is over 5 years old.
I am definitly for right to repair from amfinancial standpoint of I am willing to not hand over my money to people that make ' modern electronics ' as if it is a fancy Bic pen ie. it will break and you buy another at too much money for something that could be repaired.
From my experience most things fuck up conveniently shortly after the warranty is up. I have seen this in Nintendo joycons, laptops,fridges ect
Warranty Void stickers are only there to stop people who don't know they're illegal. Which is actually A LOT of people. This cuts down down on their warranty returns by a huge amount as those people won't even try to return stuff.
I replaced a macbook logicboard under the extended warranty for the GPU failing on a 17 inch 2011 back in 2015 in Canada at a apple store. The store said it was perfectly fine for me to bring it in without a hard drive in it at all even. they only care if physical damage is obvious to the device. They did even tell me the screen can be damaged but as long as the part that's failed is the part covered by the warranty it will still be replaced. They would just leave me with a broken screen.
That sticker which states: "Warranty void if sticker broken" is itself illegal.
The trouble is, no one has the resources to fight this.
I suggest you post the act that states this warranty isn't void unless manufacturers can prove you messed it up, as a link and source.
This will help people a lot in fighting the bullshit.
The FTC has the resources to fight this. You let them know if you have a company pulling this crap on you. It won't really help your specific case, but eventually the FTC will come for said company.
To many who say this, the expiration date of the warranty is the expiration date of the product. They don't understand that some of us don't care at all about the warranty. We know that in most cases there might as well not be a warranty because the manufacturer will try to make the process as difficult as possible to try to get us to give up and just buy a new one. I personally never bother. I am happy to open a device and mess with it the day I buy it (and if I screw it up, that is on me), and if a device fails "under warranty" I pretty much never try to use the warranty.
And that's what I do as well, hell I bought the laptop I'm typing this on and immediately after first boot I opened it up to see the upgrade options and to install a second drive.
YOU SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID TO OPEN SOMETHING YOU BOUGHT AND PAYED FOR. PERIOD.
IF a product has a super long warranty which covers the expected lifetime of the product (it lasts until the product becomes obsolete, or, until the product becomes so worn out that it's not worth repairing, then right to repair might not be a very important issue for that product, but that isn't relevant to the vast majority of products). Long warranties are already very rare, but warranties which last longer than the lifetime of the product are even rarer. Rarer still is a warranty which covers multiple repairs or replacements. After the first repair or replacement, that's often the end of the warranty, even if it's only in the first year of a five year warranty (common with storage drives, for example).
I remember when I bought an Atari 1040ST in the early 80's, in the late 80's it died. I was an electronics tech for an oilfield service company, and I had a
power supply with 5V, and 12V outputs, so I broke it open, and wired in the supply, which worked fine, and the machine kept running until I just quit using it.
Warranties usually are planned to run out right before the planned obsolescence of certain components. In the same 80's time frame, companies who manufactured
washing machines went to a plastic coupling device for the motor to transmission linkage, which was very well engineered to fail on day 91. I fixed several of these
that cost about 15 dollars for the part, and 5 minutes to fix, they have long since dropped that scam. Let's face it most Product Corporations are quite corrupt.
I can fix anything, so I am not affected, except when the parts are no longer available. I am pleased to know that You are fighting to keep that from happening.
Don't get me started on GE defrost timer "circuit boards" for Refrigerators. Just because the individual has an engineering degree, does not mean he, or she is competent.🤦♂️
All very reasonable. Spent 5 years with a manufacturer responsible for service channel training in the early 1990s. What you said made perfect sense. Right to repair is entirely reasonable.
In the US at least,many still don’t know that the 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty law also makes warranty void stickers illegal (sadly, my Xbox 360 got red-ring of death’s, and Microsoft would not warranty the device despite still being in warranty & their reason was that the warranty guidance sticker was broken (it was slightly scratched along the seal, but still 90% intact); and I sadly had no choice but a new one because Microsoft wouldn’t follow the law and I definitely didn’t have the money (or brains) to fight them in court over an Xbox 360 as a 12 year old.
The FTC is supposed to regulate and enforce such things, dating back to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act in the 70s like you pointed out, but they've almost never meaningfully enforced it legally with any substantial weight. I'm worried the same thing will happen with Right to Repair, regardless of the the FTC says or gets put into law.
plus the fact that most of time when someone comes to see or any other repair shop, it's b/c the device is not under warranty anymore otherwise the manufacturer would have fixed it under said warranty.
Solid answer, I think you could have gone further though. Under the current situation where makers are actively preventing owners from correctly repairing their devices they likely obtain some liability for repairs done incorrectly, and regardless of the more direct bad repair are responsible for its failure. If anything, hardware vendors being required to give usable access to owners prevents them from being liable for botched repair/upgrade jobs.
Louis, you may also want to mention that it is not the manufacturer that decides if your warranty is void or not. The manufacturer has to prove this to the Federal Trade Commission, only then can the FTC declare that your warranty isn't void.
Back in 2014, I signed a contract for a “new” free Samsung S5 (seen the salesperson cut the celo off the box!) to replace my then software deteriorated iPhone 4S which was only 2 years old (another free device). Was the best smart phone that I had ever used for the first 3 weeks, then it bricked out of nowhere (endless boot loops). Brought it to the carrier, who sent it away and issued a loner S5 whilst it was repaired.
It came back 2 weeks later with an unrepaired motherboard (and a $500 price tag) because the device was found to be rooted. Which confused me (at the time not knowing what the term even meant) and annoyed me since I assumed that Samsung was trying to skip out on a repair. Not having any other recourse, I ended up buying out the $700 or so FREE contract and signed for a G4. I then opened a complaint with the better business bureau, while also hitting Google and seeing what in the hell rooting was (and how to prove a device is or isn’t).
Needless to say, there is lots of information for people intentionally rooting devices. But I only found one other story of someone eating it on a rooted device deemed uncoverable by Samsung. And most importantly, I found out about the Knox counter. Since I was buying a brand new device (so I thought!), it should be 0x0. The problem was, it was 0x1, custom firmware.
Samsung refused to do anything but refer me to the Manuel where it forbids device rooting. My carrier store essentially said that they couldn’t do anything about it. And 5 years later, I finally recycled the device and swallowed the hit, not seeing any recourse I could pursue.
I fully intended to dump the carrier and the store after the G4 contract ended. But it turned out that I didn’t have to. My then carrier was absorbed by another big Canadian carrier, and I ended up getting transitioned to another carrier due to monopoly laws I think (no company can hold too much market share). Though I would have love to have ditched the store, it ended up changing carriers as well. But since this new carrier has never given me problems, I’ve made peace with it.
Funny thing about the G4 . . . It also bricked at one point, which was horrifying. But it turns out that almost every other one in existence also had the same problem. So again, no issue in fixing that phone. In fact, that phone still works for my dad to this day.
Thus, companies I will never buy from again are:
-Samsung /LG
-Apple
IDE be tempted to add Motorola to the list for having a phone that’s hard to repair, but that is hardly a unique problem lol.
What's _really_ funny is how often products break just after the warranty expires.
It's called planned obsolescence
And it is not funny at all...
Major companies will do research on the life of their products and set the warranty to expire 3-6 months before major repairs are expected to begin
@@Valreg ….I don't need to see direct evidence, I just know it's true! I like beating them at that game. I do the prediction and decide based on that and gut feel. If it's a $$$ piece of gear, I consult with a real expert before buying any warranty crap.
crApple literally programs their devices to slow down after a certain period of time. They've openly admitted it.
Speaking about warranties, I never understood why certain car mfgs do not honor warranties just because there's a different owner. That seems like BS. They are warrantying the vehicle, not the person. Weird.
@@the_kombinator Kia switches to a shorter version of the warranty from a 10 yr / 100k mile limited powertrain to a 5 yr / 60k mile. That's what I mean. Car mfg aren't the only ones who do this, but just super obvious when it's a car.
I just think that's BS. It doesn't matter who bought the damn car, the warranty should stay the same.
I wish we had repair shops like yours here .😥it’s the pits here in France 😰
Keep up the good work!!!!
It is also a non-argument. Manufactures will already find any excuse to deny you a warranty, or design the device in such a way that any component covered by it will not break for the duration.
E.g. If you crack your screen, that is never covered under a warranty, you need to pay out of pocket or have insurance. Or the battery, it has enough overhead to last 2-3 years until the warranty runs out. Same for the lifespan of capacitor or fan bearings. They are designed and manufactured with a lifespan that is 6-12 months longer than the warranty period.
The logic should be if you provide warranty then you provide full repair. However if you go outside that you should void the warranty but everything should be accesible via 1st or 3rd party.
TLDR if your warranty is active. U take it to the repair facility of the company…
Right to repair helps outside of warranties the most. And helps force companies prevent you from only using them even out of the warranty. Effectively controlling pricing and preventing a consumer market.
We put a de facto warranty on all our repairs and we respect them because we can't manage the bad publicity. Big companies can do what they want, it won't unfortunately bankrupt them.
If anything right to repair should enhance warranty. The repair shop should have to issue some warranty on the repair, based on what was replaced. With a normal (2 year?) warranty for new parts, and lowered warranty for refurbished/donor parts. So you keep the normal warranty and have a new warranty on fixed parts. Sounds like a good deal to me, and it keeps repair shops honest and diligent.
Illegal or not, it's what HP did to me, though. I replaced the slow ass SSHDD from HP with an SSD. A year later the screen died (and I even payed for extender warranty after the replacement) and they just said; Nope. You've voided the warranty. -- It should be noted I'm a certified software and hardware expert.
You were taken for a ride...
You were RFO (Royally Fucked Over)
HP has always been completely garbage. I have no idea why they have a good reputation or why anyone buys from them. Every HP product I've encountered has been trash and getting warranty repairs from them is trash. The last HP product I ever bought with my own money was a printer that died within warranty, and HP told me to go out and find my own repair shop instead of sending me out a box with a shipping label like any reasonable company would.
Despite that, family and work have had HP products, and they're still just as crap. HP laptop that fell apart. HP computer that keeps blowing power supplies. HP printers that constantly jam, or stop receiving print requests until you power cycle, or make ink/toner messes even with official HP overpriced refills.
HP is a complete waste of time and money.
@@mjc0961 I almost completely agree. But HP has had the faster laptops for a while and also clearly stolen apple's design features, so that's probably how they got their reputation
Just had to let go of my vintage bowman box fan. Cuz I can't find any one that would try, or anything online really instilling confidence that will fix it
Please, please, please, pleease, make another video going into more detail on the laws surrounding warranty void. If it really is illegal to void warranty based on non-user faults, it would be amazing to know how to get a company to pay for those nom-user faults, even when work has been done by the user and a warranty void sticker has been removed. As someone who often deals with devices with these stickers, knowing the process of getting a warranty covered even when work has been done would be great.
The liability waver on the back of your amusement ride ticket is not enforceable as well. If they don't maintain their rides and you get hurt, you can still sue them.
Lol, when my 2008 MacBook Pro graphics chip died 3 years later, the apple store made me put the original ram sticks back in the computer before they would fix it. I’m just glad I hadn’t resold them
"what about the warranty?"
Then it works the same as the warranty for all the things you can repair yourself.
Louis: That's illegal
The background noise: *police sirens*
Imagine if people were as concerned about the warranty on clothes. You can get any garment altered to fit your body and nobody cares! You just can’t return it to the store. How silly would it be for Forever 21 to send lobbyists to congress to fight against right to tailor? Or how absurd we’d say it was if Wranglers confiscated buttons from third party seamstresses.
What your videos have convinced me of more than anything:
People don't want consumer rights, they don't want to have longevity for their devices, they don't want protection against anti-consumer acts & designs.
What they do want is "premium feel" and to have the opportunity to kiss their favorite company's ass more than they do.
Why, is everyone arguing every point that is in THE CONSUMER'S FAVOR? Something we've had in devices for YEARS- NONE of this is new people, holy cow.
Lenovo's premiere warranty is so good, you don't have to worry about right to repair. My screen starts to bleed around the edge, I call and they literally come to my house and replace the screen in front of me. Even then, you can still get the chips for Lenovo computers if you wanted to fix it.
Having my display replaced on my 2018 but it had a scratch so it was denied but the genius bar was "nice" enough to cover it on the house. Oh what a society we live in, pixel bleeding caused by a superficial scratch.
I can't recall the last time I had a problem with a product under warranty where I wasn't told to f* off by the product's company.
Many warranties do not cover abuse, battery life or water damage. Guess what three things are most likely going to go wrong.
I have never seen a warranty that covers those things.
I repaired an IP68 certified phone with water damaged screen under warranty today because the glue holding the screen wasn't as watertight as it should have been.
And they don’t cover normal wear and tear and accidental damage. Warranties do cover defects in manufacture and workmanship.
In other words, if its something the manufacturer goofed up, that’s where the warranty is made good.
@@NormanF62 A great example of that is the cooling fans in the apple laptops that don't cool anything while the laptop over heats. That's why apple gives soooo many refunds.
I'd like to know what you think of Marijuana and if you've ever used it in your life.
I do microsoldering on random projects, such as installing a modchip on my switch, soldering directly to the cpu.
Baked as hell.
Works great.
I’m one of those people that got screwed over by the 2011 graphics chip in the MacBook Pro. It would constantly have problems and every time it was being looked at by then it never exhibited. Until it finally failed after their extended warranty period and they refused to do anything about it and offered for me to pay a crazy amount for a logicboard replacement. I don’t believe they even fixed the replacements they will die a horrible death again. Planned obsolescence and no right to repair is exactly what all these companies want so you’re forced to buy new when what you have is perfectly ok if you can fix it.
"Please save my lizard, I think he's dying."
Vet: But what about the warranty?
"Wha.... what?"
If a customer brings me a malfunctioning computer that is still under warranty I don´t even bother to diagnose it. Maybe I will make a backup of the data but other than that I tell them to take it to the store.
Trained people are less disposable, can't have that.
They need to make parts modular so the end user can replace them themselves. Like imagine an iPhone screen that just slid off. You can buy an iPhone and it may come with 2 free screens and a battery in the box. You can just slide the screen off and put a new one on without any tools. Or eject a battery and place in a new one. So you can have a charged battery on standby and be fully charged while you are at Disneyland you don't have to sit at an outlet for 4 hours charging like a Tesla car.
Thats a pretty sweet mason jar lid, im going to have to find one of those.
Well, I definitely learned something. Thank you, Louis.
A warranty spec can always be written in a way to where no repair shot could ever comply.
And a car loan application can include a clause that says they can send vinny and tony to your house to break your thumbs. Just because it can be written, doesn't mean it would be legal. Yes, warranty specs CAN be written that way, but it would violate laws and the company would be chewed up for it. There's a reason no warranty is written that way. You're not the first person to consider it.
Aye man dont bring the Lizard into this hes been through enough
Phil what are you doing here?
my grandpa, grandma, dad and mom young tell me warranty back then is real, company really care for their consumer but now day warranty just to get extra buck while shorted the warranty date.
Thank you so much for this - I am dealing with a malfunctioning piece of hardware and this video cleared up much confusion I've been having. :)
I love how this is right to repair info with a little but of Louis's life problems sprinkled in like his cat eating to much and people working for the department of consumer affairs who haven't had a drug test in a while
the only warranty that i benefitted from was for my car battery. all other broken or worn out items had no active warranty.
yeah!
Thank god I live in Finland. Here we have mandatory 2 year warranty on all electronics plus many of our carriers give additional 1 year on top of that. Competition works out for consumer, who would have thought. I would never spend 1000€ on an iPhone if I couldn’t get 3 year warranty…
Warranties and the right to repair are somewhat linked by the prohibion on tying arrangments in the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act bans tying arrangements that void a customer's warranty for merely repairing their product at a non-OEM facility or with non-OEM parts, unless those OEM parts or repairs are provided free of charge. Tying arrangments are there to discourage people from repairing their products and encourage planned obselescence. They are illegal, but, because the MMWA is complex, and the FTC is very understaffed, the MMWA is almost never enforced.