AV-8B Harrier Vs F-18 Hornet Dogfight with Aim-9M | DCS |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2020
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Satellite Images used in the Tacview are provided by the Sentinel-2 under the European Commission’s Copernicus Program.
If you enjoy war thunder or are looking forward to Microsoft flight simulator 2020, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8.
In this video we take the AV-8B Harrier out for a dogfight against the F-18 Hornet, for anyone wondering we are using the sidewinder M variants in this fight because the aim-9x would be insane and the harrier would have no chance. So, just thought it would be an interesting challenge and I Hope you guys enjoy the video thank you all for your ongoing support. Love you all. - เกม
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By no stretch of the imagination am I an expert in the Harrier especially in using it in an Air to Air role, so if you are experienced and you have some tips my all means share them in the comment section I'll be reading and learning from you guys, Thanks for watching and I hope everyone is staying safe. Love you all.
I wouldn’t do hornet and mig-21 a hornet killed two of those in just 40 seconds in real life
Great video! Would it be possible to stop harrier mid air and keep it that way. Then rudder turn and face the opponent at all times while shooting missiles?
Ps you forgot about flaps, maybe even vtol flaps, and water for engine boost.
Good thing you didn't stop fighting in Round 3 when you said you could pretty much give up! 👍🤣
Hey mate, love your work. I'd like to make a suggestion for a video. Would you be interested in re-enacting an incident from the Falklands War? Where two British Sea Harriers find some of their warships damaged, finding themselves engaged with 3x Argentinian Mirage 3's. The two AV-8Bs take out the three Mirages with only their sidewinders.
I've attached the video below for context.
Cheers, and thanks in advance!
David,
th-cam.com/video/7aEYkZjTBag/w-d-xo.html
Arnold Schwarzenegger is the best harrier pilot of all time.
"That is a textbook Harry Tasker takeoff right there!"
The fact that I get this makes me feel super old.
What? Q
Harry: Excuse me captain!. I'm going to borrow your plane for a minute.
Captain: 😦 ?... uh sir you're going to have to sign for that aircraft !.
True lies
„I‘m gonna try to do some of that harrier bullsh*t“ 😂😂😂
Good job, but I think you're selling the Harrier short in a Fox2 fight. I worked on the AV8A back in the early 1970's when the F-14 first came out. Our squadron took on the F-14s with the caveat that the Tomcats couldn't just stand off and fire AIM-54s. The Harrier "won" 17 out of 21 of these engagements! The "Harrier bullshit" is called "VIFFing" for Vectoring In Forward Flight and consistently resulted in the Tomcats overshooting. BTW -- the nozzles aren't all or nothing. You should try again with a 30% - 60% nozzle angle. You can also "slam on the brakes" by going beyond 90%, just do so briefly. Enjoy your vids!
Thanks for responding because I was getting a little irritated at calling the Viffing "bullshit". I never flew DAC against harriers but I talked to a number of harrier pilots and universaslly, they say that in capable hands, and knowing how to viff, it is almost unbeatable in a close in dogfight. The 17 out of 21 engagements that your f-14's experienced is pretty typical. They have been a surprise to new f-18 and f-16 pilots. You can't dogfight with a harrier at close range...you need to get separation and re-engage. The worse thing an 18 pilot can do, is to try to stall with a harrier...generally, it's where you will die. In real life, Viffing was used to great effect against Argentina's AF and Naval fighters way back in the Falklands war.
@ Jim, there you go -- this guy understands it. The Harrier's nozzle technique has a bit of nuance for sustaining difficult turn fights
The in-game tutorials cover the mechanics and controllability of these separate CTVC ("Combat Thrust Vector Control") maneuvers in the advanced handling and air to air tutorials. It's definitely not a single "all or nothing" trick - there are a lot of tactical options if you know how to use it. Not knowing how to use the nozzles and simply slamming them around to force an overshoot is one of the worst things you can do, as you risk departing controlled flight yourself.
My understanding though is that RAF and Fleet Air Arm Harrier pilots were incredibly highly skilled, as hovering a Harrier (which is a required skill for VTOL) is like trying to balance on a razor blade. I also suspect that the FAA Harriers in the Falklands had radar, as they were being used as fighter bombers.
Again thanks. I have spoken to a marine pilot who said the following: ‘1975 the AV-8A's and F-14's were both deployed to the Philippines. We arranged for dogfights to sharpen the skills of both sets of pilots. Both airplanes were armed with practice sidewinders and guns. We took away the BVR capability of the Tomcat.
Under these circumstances the Harriers won all 24 of the fights.
Next up on Growling Sidewinder: "Hey, I wasn't outmatched enough last time, so we'll do A-10 vs F-22 BVR fight..."
Lold
A-10 with Wing blown off BRRRRRRT!
I actually lol’d several times during this video - so much fun 😂
loling
The production quality has really stepped up as you were looking for. Top notch!
thank you toby. I appreciate the feedback glad to hear its working.
I love how you transitioned from the “oh shit I don’t see a chute, that’s bad” to the “AHAHAHAHAHAH YES GO DOWN” in just 10ish videos. Keep it up
I'm not sure if you're using it, remember the harrier has a higher engine mode. I think it's a button down on the left by the water controls, it might give you a little more turn rate
Harriers were notorious for burning water and fuel so quickly in that mode and also in the hover that in a real life situation you would need to capitalise on the fist opportunity then try to bug out back to base asap.
@@rhino269 I havent flown a harrier in DCS for a while bit I remember you get about a minute. The other issue is you can overspeed and permanently damage the engine. Its certainly not meant for dog fighting, but anything that can give you any advantage is worth a shot
Former harrier mech here, I believe you are talking about the combat datum, (or combat mode)
@@wyattcook897 That's the one. I'm only an out of practice sim pilot so it's nice to get it confirmed. Thank you!
@@rhino269 you are confusing the wet mode and the combat mode, the combat mode doesn’t actually use water
You should do harrier vs A4e next, a more even fight, kinda like the Falklands.
Good one and I was thinking the same thing.
MALVINAS u bitch
Dude, you mentionned *THE FALKLANDS* , you've pretty much oppened "the pandora box" of the TH-cam comments at this point 🤣
@ Incoming jingoism
@@hugomorales1996 Hello, the paratroopers beg to differ.
Based on my experience flying the harrier in DCS, you almost never want to go all the way with the nozzles in combat, but you do want to use them to complement your turn speed. To get the best sustained turn rate in the harrier you should put in about 40 degrees of nozzle after the first 180 when you are at around 350kts. In a 5-6G turn, you can sustain 250-280kts and turn extremely tightly in that configuration, and by dumping the nose or releasing backpressure and nozzles you can quickly accelerate again. I'm pretty confident you could have won the last fight if you'd used some nozzle to improve turn rate. You only really want to go to full nozzle to force an overshoot like in your first fight, and if you are above your opponent you can use them to do a very fast vertical 'flip' to get the nose pointed down if you add full aileron and rudder as well. Overall the harrier doesn't want to look for a fight, but with careful handling, it can turn the tables on an unwary opponent quite quickly, as long as you make the most of your energy at the start of the fight and don't burn it all with a full Viff or by applying constant full back stick without adding some nozzle too.
That Harrier honestly did better than I thought it would. Good job!
"I'm expecting to thoroughly get my ass handed to me in this fight..."
Maneuver kills the hornet less than 2 minutes later, not a single shot fired...
xD!
OOOO - loving the new graphics in the prefight - someone either has a new editor or has been learning a new skill, coz the production value has def levelled up.
thanks boss and its the "learning a new skill" part. always trying to learn and make these videos better.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Well, that new learning has def paid off my friend. Kudos.
thank you man much appreciated.
It was legitimately great looking editing.
no man no subscription.
The first maneuver kill I’ve seen on this channel
"Some of dat Harrier bullshit." LMAO
I just love coming back and seeing how polished your videos become! Great job!
LMAO nice. You should really try Mig-21 or Viggen vs. the Hornet or Viper. Especially with the Viggen you'd be surprised.
@@possiblyadickhead6653 dude that was one of my favourite models when I was a kid
:(😂😂
Nice job Mr Sidewinder. Worth remembering that you have a combat button on the lower left somewhere. It gives you more engine RPM if you need it, so might allow you a higher turn rate!
This channel is so underrated, Sidewinder produces content leveled to people who have millions of subscribers
very kind of you man thank you. almost 100k soon maybe 1 million someday.
@@GrowlingSidewinder the day is inevitable, trust me
G/S. Quick correction. The Harrier (although not the AV-8B variant) also flew with the Royal Navy (called the Sea Harrier) and the Indian Navy.
Secondly, one possible air-to-air scenario you could do is fly the Harrier against A4 Skyhawks and Mirage (although the Argentinians flew Mirage III).
...and yes, I recently posted on Razbam's facebook page requesting they include an update to have a Radar installed, as in the Harrier II, so it could carry AIM 120-C as well.
I'd rather see the FA2 Sea Harrier though
The M-2000C in DCS isn't a good substitute for a mirage III/V, they're just too different.
Tbh I don't see why you would wanna use a Harrier in an actual realistic fight with bvr missiles. It's slow speed screws it over. Razbam is working on another variant of the av8b dubbed the av8b+. The av8b+ is equiped with radar, but I think Razbam is developing it as a completely separate module, and not as a free update for us. So yeah... Want a radar? Need a deep, fat wallet.
@@playyocaster3424 I think thats a pretty limited view of it. I know the harrier isn't a helicopter but if you are very aware of an aircraft hot on you there are some cheeky options. If i was in a Mig or hornet and knew a harrier was sitting on the other side of a mountain range loaded with possible amraams I wouldn't get within 20 miles of it.
@@leoparddazzling2755 so, hop into an f16/18/14, and climb high, go fast, and tada, your PK of the missile magically increases
VIFF is for momentary use to improve rate or force an overshoot, you should never try to keep the nozzles down, also use the CMBT power switch to give yourself more power, flaps usage can help as well
You are so undersubscribed! I’m new to this community, and you are by far the best channel I have seen. Keep it up!
thank you very much very kind of you, welcome to the channel and the community.
Good flying! You did way way way better than I expected! Thrust vectoring to force an overshoot/maneuver kill was a pretty epic maneuver kill!
Love these new intros, they look gorgeous!! Keep up the good work
ahahaha yes sir, that is some fine harrier b*llcrap vertical nozzle tactics!
I may not know anything about flying let alone DCS, but I still appreciate these videos, they are fun to watch. I bet I could learn something too.
Nice Maneuver kill at the beginning.
Loved the video and the new graphics for the transitions!
That's one of the most interesting exercises I've seen in DCS. I thought this was going to be fairly one sided and was amazed by what you pulled off.
I wonder if other vectoring angles would give you better results. You are using full on or full off vectoring, but the Harrier is capable of other angles. For example, in other games with similar VTOL models I find that 60 to 75 degrees gives me a slow down where I can prevent a stall with nose up, but also drop the nose to control the speed and recover.
There must be hundreds of Harrier pilots out there. Put out a call and see if you can get one that plays DCS. :D
99.4 k!!! You’re so close!!!!!!! Also your vids are getting better and better. I wish I had found this channel earlier, I only found it at 80 k subs lol
YES! I'm not sure if you saw my comment or not a few videos ago, but I suggested a harrier dogfight and this made my day 😂
This ones a classic. I have been here before and that overshoot is hilarious.
wonderful vid , thank you for giving the little guy a chance. having read most of the comments from former av-8 pilots you still had a few tricks up your sleeve you didn`t know about , but all in all i think the little guy showed his muster. i don`t know if you`ll try it again or not but think if you try what jim uncaged suggested you might have a better outcome ,even against the f-16. thanx again for the great video and giving the harrier a chance to show his stuff.
Round 2 was basically the hornet saying “you wanna dance?? Let’s fucking dance!!”
Great video, thank you. New look is fantastic
100k subscribers. Congrats!
Read the book by Sharky Ward about fighting the Sea Harrier in the Falklands. He trained against F15's and scored a decent kill ratio. Admittedly the Sea Harrier had a radar and was more designed as fleet defence but you get the idea.
Great Video!
I'd like to see a Harrier vs A10C II dogfight where you take turns in each aircraft and see which one would come out on top.
This was a lot of fun. Thanks GS.
So the harrier is basically an all-or-nothing jet in a dog fight
It's fucking cool though.
Aye almost 100k subs congrats
Lmaoo I never would've thought of that nossle down trick. Absolutely genius
Also the fact that the enemy pilot mirrored your stall to kill you is hilarious
Royal Air Force Harriers and Royal Navy Sea Harriers were trained to ziff like that and used it to force the Argentines Pilots to overshoot during the Falklands, the idea being similar to Maverick hitting the brakes and Jester flying right by lol. The idea was you could then change the thrust back to standard flight, slot in behind the enemy plane and have a better shot from behind.
@@rhino269 Actually, Viffing was only used during the Falklands in the event that the harrier pilot had run out of alternative options, as it's only effective once and can be corrected for by the opponent if they know to expect it, along with the fact that the harrier accelerates fairly slowly making regaining speed before hitting the ocean difficult
When you hover in your harrier but the enemy Hornet also hovers. Lol
"Ooo that's a big fire" - Growling Sidewinder ~2020
I remember a quote from way the hell back in the day ('80s) from a one-off magazine called "Killer Elite"...I read that thing over and over so much I ended up wearing it out...
Anyway, it was an interview with an F-15 pilot on mock dogfighting different aircraft. With the Harrier, he said, "We killed a lot of those, too. He's only got one trick"
Pretty sure you used that one trick. LOL
lol ya I can't imagine what other trick the harrier might have its got to be this one.
Congrats on 100k
Holy sh*t that intro! As a video editor I got goosebumps!
Worth it to hear GS giggle.
Never stop being hilarious mate ;-)
Love the odd ball match up. Do more please like Mig 21s, A4s, Warthog Vs Warthog. ...stuff like that. Everyone will love it.
This was fun to watch :D
"Bullshittery" is officially added to fighter pilot dialogue! The transitions are getting better and better, GS! Great graphics.
Thank you rick much appreciated brother.
In the Falklands War Royal Navy Sea Harriers called use of downward nozzles " Viffing". Apparently very useful against the Argentinian A4's seeing as the A4's never managed to shoot down a single RN Sea Harrier or RAF Harrier.
100k congrats m8
Thank you man
Harrier pilots I have talked to say you can use the thrust nozzles set at 1/4 and 1/2 vectoring to force you around a turn without loosing all your velocity in the turn.
Seeing the F-18 do a tail stand was awesome! GS did great against the F-18. Very fun :)
This was very interesting. Easy more fun than the usual high performance turn fights.
I'd love to see some MiG-15 vs. F-86 action. Early cold war knife fights are much more entertaining.
Love your new intro!
Always great vids! Keep it up!. I'm a big fan of F/A-18 stuff. I would like to see more content in VR, it is better entertainer and I guess it is really the way to play DCS.
PS: will you upgrade your GPU with new RTX3080? :)
Just remember that your thrust is in the opposite to the way the nozzles are pointing when drawing your vectors (in the tac view of round 1). Thrust is pushing you forwards (nozzles at 0) or up (nozzles at 90).
You seem to be having a lot of fun in this fight 🙂
dang what a legendary aircraft ground or air attack varient.
Nooooooo! Lol, that was a great looking controlled recovery the 18 did on that second sortie....albeit risky : )
Great vidy as always
That first round was beautiful
Almost there at 100K!
Awesome stuff!
I watched a video on the Harrier presented by L/Col Kevin "smells " Gross , not too technical but very informative on flying the Harrier. He said he could out turn most f-18 pilots , especially if they were new to the plane. He gave examples of in-flight maneuvering I think they may be helpful if you decide to give the little guy another shot at dogfighting 😁. Thanks again .
first time i've seen proper 'viffing' used in DCS
I really cannot get to grips with the harrier. Great video as always
I’m gonna do some of that harrier shit. I didn’t even know there was a such thing. That one made me chuckle
i dont think i ever heard you be so happy as when you got that gunkill
Great Maneuvering !
Man that was good! Makes me realise the massive stones the Fleet Air Arm guys of the RN had in the falklands going up against the Argentinian air force and it's Mirage jets
this stuff is so much fun to watch.
U should dogfight cw Lemoyne while ur in a mig 29 and he's flying an f16!
This is very unlikely. Despite only doing ACM, fox2 or guns only. He prefer to play safe and rather not do those kind of things. He did do a 2 part 'tutorial' with the f16 from startup, taxi, takeoff and aar (and more but cant remember unfortunately) he didnt get to the air to air stuff tho
ATÉ vs CW Lemoyne
@@level30boss27 unfortunately they can't. They've both mentioned that they are limited in what skills they're permitted to display to the general public without compromising national security. It sounds like nonsense for a recreational flight sim, but DCS is just close enough to the real thing, that training and aircraft capability secrets could be lifted and applied/exploited.
The temptation to go full competitive in the moment might prove to be too attractive. How does one hold back when competing in a game or sport?
lemoyne?
@@Aquascape_Dreaming so he is holding back ???
Good one, loved it!
Bruh 500 more subs and you’re at 100K... solid
soon brother.
A-10C dogfight when?
Actually might be not that bad.
a-10 v su-25 lets make it happen
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger........except an A10, which'll fucking kill you!!!
@@killeros4049 that would be fun. My feeling is that the Froggy would have the edge because of its higher energy. But it would be interesting to see. That Warthog cannon is from the very pits of hell!
@@Aquascape_Dreaming I agree but at the end pilot skill will matter at the end, just like the vid he did F14 vs Su27
Almost to 100k!
The way he brought the nose around for the kill!!!!!
You need to try the Harrier against the Mirage next! Both aircraft are good at dumping speed, but the Mirage can gain it back much faster. It would still be an interesting dogfight!
Dat maneuverer kill was beautiful
This video is great! But now it makes me want a Harrier N/A *"Plus"* because those are equipped with radars, and thus able to shoot AIM-120s.
Nice flyin bro 👍🏻
What a great video I was lmao I think we all have a soft spot for the old Harriers especially if you are old enough to have lived through the Falkland war.
Sounds in this game are great
I wonder, wouldn't it make sense to slightly angle the nozzles at, say, 20-30° to provide a bit extra turn rate?
It would give extra turn rate at the cost of your speed, but the problem is if you angle them too far the weapons won't fire.
You're right, but the issue the harrier has is sustaining speed. The nozzle trick works once, like the cobra. Then you're slow and helpless
I think you might reduce the turn radius somewhat, but the turn rate may suffer from it.
10-15 degrees works well
Pulling out this little buggy because of the recent Razbam stunt. Good timing.
NIce job stalling out the F18
The RAF referred to the Harrier’s manoeuvre as ‘VIFF-ing’. Vectoring in Forward Flight.
what is the music at the end of the second fight (Ate's view) please?
Really good performance, much better than i would have spected; AV8 vs F18 all my money to that Hornet, would be interesting to see a SU-25 vs AV8 fox2/cannons dogfight, CAS vs CAS. It has been very fun to see.
The AV8-BE is equipped with the same radar system as the F-18, you were flying the much older AV8-BB Night attack . I work on AV8's both BB/BE variants :D
The RAF proved. Vectoring thrust. Damn deadly when properly used.
The lift surface at the front is called the leading edge flap.
That fox2 cried for the sun not the Hornet. Any fox2 will do that I guess.
amazing stuff mate, editing got a boost :)
Say your name hahah the growling of the sidewinder
Whoa the upgraded graphics, reminds me of Mustard's videos :D
YOU GOTTA DO SOMETHING CRAZY FOR YOUR 100K subs!!!
at 8:50,the hornet is usually AI and it used flares at the moment because you used 2 missiles,still it was a great dogfight and keep up with the amazing videos.
Mr. Sidewinder sir, I have to share with you how much I have been enjoying your content this past week (because I just discovered DCS and your channel this week)
I have not played a combat flight sim since Jane's USAF...I really thought the genre had died after that and could never find anything good. Just been in tactical shooters since then and World of Warships the last 4 years. However, I've been stalking this sim all week long and I'm overwhelmed at the detail and complexity. I find myself both excited and intimidated about starting to get involved in DCS. As a father of an 8 and 4 year old, I'm confident I won't have the time to invest to even think about approaching the level of understanding and skill you exude, but I sure as hell want to give it a shot.
I've got a HOTAS on order (originally intended for SW Squadrons) and I'm stalking updated GPUs as I'm on a GTX970...I'll get that sorted out. I'm wondering what is your input concerning VR vs. TrackIR for someone just starting out? Would either even be necessary at the start or a definite advantage in the beginning? Thanks for any input and outstanding job on your videos and commentary...truly impressive sir.
Hi Charles, let me just say you sound a lot like me when I first started, I also played the Janes series but mostly Janes IAF and I was sure the genre was dead until I discovered DCS.
As to answer your questions, I think a head tracker of some kind is 100% a must for a real authentic experience. If you can't turn your head you can't do much in the SIM in terms of Air to Air combat, at least not with a good experience. I recommend trackir, only because its cheaper and if you dont have a stronger GPU VR will seem stuttery, I myself am using trackir for my videos. as for an advantage yes 100% lets say you don't have trackir and you fight someone who does, you will die 9 times out of 10. you can't fight what you can't see, and you can't see if you can't turn your head.
Lastly I would recommend you pick 1 plane buy it and learn only that 1 plane. Once you get the hang of it other planes get easier. Maybe something multirole like an F-16 or the F-18 (remember F-16 is still really new in its development) this way (concentrating on 1 plane) you won't get overwhelmed and quit and trust me at first its lot of information but just be patient and keep going it will eventually come.
Good Luck and all the best.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Hey thanks for the response and I really appreciate the insight on how to get started. I've been sharing your videos with a buddy of mine that used to coop USAF with me and he says the incredible detail and obvious complication reminds him of when I tried to get him into playing Enemy Engaged (helicopter sim) with me. He quickly dubbed that title 'Player Enraged' HA! One thing we both comment on when seeing your videos is your incredible grasp of flight dynamics and knowledge of the various aircraft capabilities. I know that's a lot of knowledge to retain. A great example is your video with the Chinese mig where you got 6 kills (about a year old)...we were amazed at how calmly you approached the situations you were outnumbered or when you were 100% defensive but turned it around because of your knowledge of both your aircraft and the opponent. I'm also amazed at how well you fly the plane while keeping your eyes on a target that is not in the direction you are flying...that's really cool.
Bottom line is I need to get started with some reading and seat time. Thanks again!
hello again Charles, Thank you for your kind words man you are your friend are both far too kind. Let me just say those skills are something that anyone can have its just about play time and experience if you had as many hours as I do in DCS i'm sure youd be better than I am. Always grateful that guys like you find the channel and support me so big thank you for that. I hope to see you in the DCS skies brother. Stay safe and check six.