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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2024
- Who was Crowley before the Fall? I've gathered as much information as I can to present in this video. Enjoy!
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00:00 - Intro
00:50 - Angelic Hierarchy
02:52 - The Clues (Rank)
06:32 - Possible Angelic Identities
11:50 - Does it Matter?
12:59 - Conclusion
#goodomens2 #goodomens #theory #fantheory #crowley #aziraphale #davidtennant #neilgaiman - บันเทิง
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Hello Good Omens fans! Thank you for checking out some of my older videos. Sadly, Amazon made a copyright claim on this video, so you will notice 3 somewhat jumpy cuts. The information is still all here. Enjoy, and thanks for understanding!
It is possible that Crowley was a Seraph which, in fact, means: burning but also fiery serpent. A description that suits him. In this case he would be superior to the Archangels themselves. Furthermore, the leader of the seraphim, in tradition, is Metatron who seems to particularly hate Crowley for his rebellion.
So, from my understanding, the Seraph in Good Omens are the group that includes the Archangels and the Cherubim. There are no angels above the Archangels in Good Omens that I am aware of. But I do agree, the description fits Crowley, and that he was likely and Archangel similar to Michael or Uriel.
The term Seraph is not mentioned in the book. But not even Cherub's for Aziraphale. He is defined only as the Angel guarding the eastern gate. Tradition has it that there were 4 Cherubs defending the gates of Eden.
For Crowley, only speculation is possible because no information provided is that specific.
Yep, it is all just a guessing game! But that is what is fun about theories :)
the Metatron specifically asked if crowley knew who he was. which in any other book would imply there's a past. would the Metatron be questioning a nobody?
Team Crowley Seraph! ✨ I also believe he was! 💚🐍🌹
“Kokabiel longed to return to be among the stars again, forgoing all worldly concerns”
Sounds a lot like a certain demon wanting to run away to Alpha Centauri….
For me the main clue is in the conversation between Crowley and Shax in Bentley.
Shax: The kind of miracle only the mightiest of archangels could've performed....
Crowley: How do you know I didn't do it?
True! There are numerous clues, the more I rewatch, that he was an archangel. Also when Shax is standing in the door to the bookshop and he says "You're welcome to look from there, maybe you'll spot an Archangel", and then just smiles at her.
Oooh this is clever never noticed
Exactly!! That one blew my mind the moment I heard it!
@@Sendarya omg..... yes!!! i love that scene so much and this just added more layers!!!
@@Sendaryaoh! That is clever. That never crossed my mind. So many things occur that potentially have a double meaning. Makes my head spin!
One more piece of evidence to place with the rest: When Gabriel turns up without his memory, only when Crowley commands him to remember does any access to the past return to him. And it happens every time Crowley demands that he remember. This indicates an erstwhile rank of some importance. And, if this is the case, it would explain why Crowley would not remember the people who worked under him but is remembered by them. He remembers humans he met briefly centuries before, without any difficulty.
Wow, this is the first time I've ever heard that, brilliant observation! If I do make a part 2 to cover some of the other possible names, I will include that bit of info. Very well spotted!
That’s a good point. You’re right, I thought Crowley was just a commanding presence, so to speak, but it would make sense, that why Gabriel is able to dig deep and respond to him.
"Jump out that window" off he goes. That is interesting isn't it? Especially if you keep in mind that angels aren't supposed to have free will, that was a gift to humans.
I thought Crowley must have known Gabriel fairly well when he showed Azi the figure of him in Edinburgh and said something like "I guess he is staring at himself from time to time". Maybe that was just a wilde random guess, maybe he knew from experience with Gabi in heaven? But if he really knew the truth (Gabi staring at his own figure), that means his memory was perhaps not washed away? Mm, I also had some clue about the memoryerasion: He did know gravity, but can't exactly explain it anymore to Gabi, he said he could not remember anymore. Given the fact that he had to be really good in Physics and such and (at least in the book, but I bet also in the series Angels are highly intelligent etc.) It would make sense he couldn't remember if the memory was erased. Maybe it was not restlessly destroyed? Just some things that could be dangerous? Though he is still very mighty. Maybe he hides some former talents. Like his manipulation of time. It could be he was hiding this tool (that looks a bit like a hex wrench) in the car all the time. Mm...many questions...
ohhh that would kinda explain why he kept repeating the “ask him PROPERLY”
In Season 1, he was powerful enough to stop time or at least powerful enough to wield the object (crank) that stopped time. So he seems more powerful than a mid- level angel
Crowley didn’t Fall. He sauntered vaguely downwards
I just love the way this puts the Nebula Scene in context where Aziraphale is so starstruck. Crowley doesn't even bother introducing himself back because he knows Azi already knows who he is.
My favourite theory is Kokabiel by far
ive been keeping a list of the theories and reasons why i think theyre likely
Kokabiel
- Considered ‘Angel of the stars’ , Crowley created the stars
- Generally considered to be fallen , Crowley fell
- ‘ Kokabiel taught constellations to his associates.’ Crowley to Aziraphale?
- ‘The fair and childlike Kokabiel saw things in the stars that his brother Watcher’s did not.’ , Crowley seems childlike in the Opening scene of S2 Ep1, and seeing things in the stars could be connected to how he didnt see the point in making something so gorgeous just for it to be destroyed later on
Kokabiel was such a new idea to me, I was surprised how much lined up with Crowley when I did the research. It seems one of the more likely possibilities!
@@Sendarya since he is a fairly obscure angel, i dont think it will be the canon answer, if we ever get one, but its my favourite theory so far!
@@Sendaryain Hebrew its pronounced כוחביאל 'kochaviel'- literally meaning star of G-D.
fits pretty well! especially with his weather obsession
@@shevahauser1780let me correct you a little, it's "כוכביאל" not "כוחביאל", the word "כוח" means strength while "כוכב" means star
@@PomidorkaCherry oh thanks, im not the best at spelling
I think a big reason the fandom latched on to Raphael is because he's a pretty well known archangel. Even people who aren't super familiar with angelic lore know the name Raphael as an angel. Like I had to look up Sandalphon and Uriel and Saraquel... but Raphael, I knew that name right off the bat.
So I think the fandom(myself included) finds it pretty sus that we have all these uncommon, to the average joe, angel characters flying around, and one major player suspiciously absent. And oh look over there! A demon of incredibly high levels of power with evidence pointing towards their former rank... and we *conveniently* have yet to hear their former angelic name.
Absolutely! I As I mention in the video, Raphael is one of the more popular theories for just those reasons. :) Have you heard the Aziraphale becomes Raphael theory? I plan to cover that next.
@@Sendarya I have not! But I'm looking forward to it
@@Sendarya Something that peaked my interest and not sure it's a "thing".... during Gabriel's trial, the phrase, "...your time as Gabriel..." etc. made me think that "Gabriel" is a title and not his name? Could just be in the weeds here but anybody else notice this?
Oh no, I don't think that's too in the weeds at all. I noticed that as well. Although I may have drawn a different conclusion than you from this? Stay tuned for the next video on Thursday to find out, concerning Aziraphale in season 3!
@@BytheBentleyI thought that this was more like Crowley had to change his name when he stopped being an angel, as in they would give him a different name after they erased his memories.
Am I the only one who noticed that Aziraphale isn't wearing his pinky ring in the "Before the beginning" scene, but he does when he meets Crowley again on the wall of Eden? We do know that angels can store their memories and personalities in tiny objects (like Gabriel did with the fly) and since Crowley was a starsmith he could have easily created a ring, put his essence into it, and passed it on to Aziraphale before his Fall for safekeeping. But maybe Aziraphale and him were somehow made to forget about that, because of some kind of angelic memory wipe... 🤔 A bit like Professor Yana in Doctor Who, I guess, so maybe a bit too obvious with both David Tennant and Sir Derek Jacobi involved... but it somehow bothers me, the ring and the fly...
Anything is possible, and no, you aren't the only one who noticed :) I've actually got close ups of the ring and it is a rampant gryphon on a shield. The heraldry meaning is likely related either to deeds he performed in the great war, or more likely his position as the Angel guarding the eastern gate. No elaborate mysteries needed. I do intend to address the ring in a future video though, and thank you for the interesting theory!
oooh nice point!!!
The ring changes appearance over the years though.
When I had been doing my own little bit of independent research on this stuff, I almost couldn't believe how strong of a contester Kokabiel seemed to be, because he really marked off all the most fundamental checks of who Crowley really is. I think that, to Crowley, it never really mattered how high-ranking of an angel he was, because he always did just march to the beat of his own drum. When I found that Kokabiel was the name of "an angel who taught the stars to the other angels", I was shocked at how such a specific detail that was...
In episode 3, we saw how Crowley explained gravity to Jimbriel.
Crowley may not ever want to remember anything about who he was before as an angel, it's all moot to him. But he never stopped caring about the stars. That still mattered to him. Kokabiel might fit the bill as the truest to whom Crowley is to himself
I'm stealing the term Jimbriel from you now
Yeah that one fits so nicely with Crowley it's my prime contender as well
Even the Metatron stated that Crowley always went his own way.
Imagine thinking Koabiel could open the archangel Gabriels file, and command the archangel Gabriel to do things. Also, Kokabiel was a very minor angel and very high ranking demon. The opposite of what Crowley seems to be, They make it clear, he had rank with Angels... the Gabriel book thing and him being the only angel to know the metatron(yet be unimpressed) made that clear enough to me.
Also interesting to note that Heaven didn't actually wipe Garbriel's memories, he put them in the fly before that could happen. That seems to have been overlooked by some. I think there's so much going on in S2 that the obvious gets overlooked. Which is exactly what Mr Gaiman wants...it's a massive game of spot what's missing or what furniture is missing - which Crowley actually says in one episode. I'm tying myself up in knots over this but keep coming back to - you're missing the obvious, keep it simple.
Yes, Good Omens is jam packed with symbolism and foreshadowing. It is not a simple show at all. I bet you are right, the answers are probably right in front of us!
One of the most prominently featured aspects which suggests that, is the scenes with Aziraphale's magic show. It serves the purpose of showing Furfur's connection to both Crowley and Aziraphale, but it's also very much about sleight of hand and misdirection.
I’m coming late to this but the fly that had Gabriel’s memories had some level of sentience as it kept trying to come back to Gabriel and give him hints.
The obvious answer… what sentient object exists in the series that could contain Crowley’s memories?
And would you look at that this season established that the Bentley’s crank was something Crowley had before the fall and it was the also the only thing that survived the Bentley’s destruction in season 1….
Guys I think angel Crowley might be the ducking car
@@artemiswolf4508damn you cracked the case! I’m a believer
Also, thank you for this video!!! One other thing about the Beginning.....Aziraphale clearly knows who Crowley is and you can see the adoration in his eyes, and those wings collapsing when Crowley said the nebula was gorgeous (I think Aziraphale thought he was referring to him).....
Agreed!
Absolutely. Aziraphale was so crestfallen when he realised that Crowley only had eyes for his nebula, his creation.
And maybe that explains a little bit about Aziraphale's insecurities when it comes to Crowley? Does his gorgeous demon really care about insignificant little Aziraphale?
Not sure about that. If you watch the scene closely you can see that Aziraphale is a bit disappointed, because Crowley doesn’t introduce himself.
I think Crowley was as high an angel as he could be, which seems to be Seraphim? I think it's important to the plot as it's clearly shown that he is very powerful and that with Aziraphale they could be unstoppable. A clear threat to the Heaven & Hell, if they were pitted against all humanity and A&C...which has already been suggested in the show, think it was S1.
Yes, in season 1, Crowley says he thinks the next one will be the big one, "all of us against all of them".
For me Crowley were Baraqiel. In the book of Enoch a very powerful Archangel. The one of the weather, lightning, and the certain quadrant of the Universe. I think it could be that. Thank you for the video!! Ah, I have lots of notes about his knowledge of the Metatron.
1/Aziraphale was basically asked to take over after Gabriel. He is to become Supreme Archangel. When he says to Crowley "I don't think you understand what I'm offering" Crowley answers "Oh, I understand, and a lot better than you do", made me wonder if Crowley wasn't the supreme archangel, with Gabriel taking over after the fall.
2/About the miracle Crowley performed with Aziraphale, Shax states that "only the mightiEST of archangelS" could have performed it. Is it because Crowley was, the mightiest of archangels? Supreme Archangel? Of course, it could be because Aziraphale and Crowley are special together, love and everything...
That is an interesting idea, and a fair point about what Crowley says, but Neil has confirmed that there have only been 2 princes of heaven (supreme archangels): Lucifer and Gabriel. Maybe he's just referring to the fact that he knows heaven's offer is not a good one, because he has suffered their casual cruelty? I do agree that the reason the miracle was so big was that they are special together!
@@Sendarya damn it, you're right!
Dont forget, even if they where gabriel or lucy... they are just 3rd level rank pretty low @@elsamirre5322
Crowley's remark that he "understands" what is being offered struck me as an interesting choice of phrase coming so soon after Crowley's conversation [not all of which we heard] with Nina & Maggie ... at one point Crowley says to them that he "doesn't understand" and they say that's why they're "telling" him; we all probably thought they were telling him to talk to Aziraphale about how he felt, but could they have been telling him something else - especially as it was important enough for Nina to leave the coffee shop with a queue of customers!
This is great stuff! Re: Shax's reference to Crowley as "arch traitor", you could be right as far as Neil's clue-giving process, but at the time I assumed that Shax used it in the sense of his betrayal being great/major, like how in superhero context, there's "nemesis" (regular opponent) and then there's "ARCHnemesis" (major/ultimate opponent).
That is also a distinct possibility! Especially since she says "arch" and not "arc"
I thought the same.
Can't be Lucifer. Crowley specifically mentions Lucifer by name in his comment about falling and "Lucifer and the guys" This would imply that he is NOT, himself, Lucifer, as he seems to blame Lucifer and "the guys" for why and how he ultimately fell.
I'm not sure who he was before, but I'm putting my bet on someone First Order, whoever he turns out to be (if it ever even matters, since it doesn't matter to Crowley). When he and Aziraphale perform their "surreptitious half a miracle" to hide Gabriel, it's later mentioned by Shax that it had the kind of power "only the mightiest of Archangels" could muster, and it's also mentioned that the miracle had enough energy to have raised 25 people from the dead. Now, this could just be because Crowley and Aziraphale are so much in sync, miracle-wise, that their combined miracle had that much juice, or it COULD be because Crowley was a very high order angel. When Shax makes her comment, Crowley responds with "How do you know I didn't do it?" and when Beelzebub mentions the "extreme sanctions" Crowley says that was "just a story we used to tell to scare the Cherubs" -- which would imply he had to have some significant rank, before.
Correct, it also can't have been Lucifer because Neil has explicitly said that Crowley is not Lucifer. I agree, all evidence points to him being pretty high ranking, before his fall. Excellent points, thank you for the comment!
Maybe I misunderstood the episode but I thought the miracle that was discovered by heaven was the one Gabriel performed with the music and that ziras and crowleys miracle went by mostly unnoticed?? Did I misunderstand
All good points, and I agree he can't be Lucifer, but I think it's also weird that that could be true but he had to hear from Aziraphale that everything he'd designed wasn't supposed to exist anymore after about 6,000 years. Like if he were really that high ranking, wouldn't he have known that well before a lower class angel like Aziraphale?
@@cherrypico3188 Not necessarily. Heaven strikes me as very compartmentalized, and those type of systems rarely value communication. Aziraphale, as apparently part of the human creation team, might have heard, in passing during one of his committee meetings, that everything would be shut down in 6K years. Meanwhile, no one figures it's important to let the cosmos-building team know this because "their job'll be over by then, anyway." (I used to work in a corporate structure like that. It was very frustrating, and asking questions for clarity or any other reason got bad annual reviews and eventually the asker found themselves out of a job.)
@@AuthorEstherMitchell hmm.. fair point.. and backed up with the fact that a 37th rank angel would know about God's bet before an angel like Aziraphale. Not his department according to someone higher up the ladder, even though it really should've been since he was posted on earth where the trial was to take place.
It’s so funny how the Raphael theory for me has gone from one of the fandom’s wackiest headcanons to something I’m almost certain is going to get confirm.
I mean that line about how “If it happens twice it’s an institutional problem”, at least two examples of Crowley not remembering stuff from before the fall, how he immediately understood what Gabriel was saying when he explained his amnesia. Why even show Crowley be able to open the documents if Saraquel was going to help them anyway?
It really feels like there’s going to be a revelation about Crowley’s identity and having his memory wipe and if that’s the case... then he HAS to be Raphael right?
Any other name simply wouldn’t be as evocative, it’s less of an impactful reveal if the show has to stop itself to explain an obscure Hebrew angel and why it matters
Also I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the Lucifer theory, Neil has been known to straight up lie in asks on occasion and this is the same guy that created DC’s Lucifer and wrote for John Constantine, I KNOW he knows the difference between Satan and Lucifer.
Ultimately I don’t believe that one will be canon (it does feel a bit clunky) but I put it more in the “unlikely” camp than the “confirm untrue” one
But the first fallen angelic prince is lucifer, the second would be Gabriel, so.. where does Crowley fit?
@@javijanuaryarts The idea of the theory would be that Metatron was not going to let anyone know it happened a second time like how he didn’t want to make Gabriel fall for the same reason, so he erased Crowley’s memories of ever being an archangel (along with the other angels memories of Crowley/ Raphael/ whatever other name he had)
Or if you believe the Lucifer theory Crowley could’ve been Lucifer.
But in S1 Crowley says when he's talking to himself "oh here come Lucifer and the gang"
@@jaziona Yeah but it’s vague enough that you could justify it as Crowley mockingly imitating Satan when he bumped into Crowley/Lucifer and his gang.
That or it was part of whatever memory alteration Metatron did.
Like I say it’s clunky and I don’t really think is true but I guess my overall point is that, although unlikely, it isn’t impossible and the fandom is very quick to dismiss this theory while giving credence to other ones that are way dumber and more implausible.
No, he said "I was minding my own business when suddenly "Ah lookie here its Lucifer and the gang!". That could easily be a third persons self quote about his distaste for being lumped in with "the gang" of demons. The Lucifer denial was many, many years before the show. Lets see, Lucifer was the serpent in the garden, Crowley was the serpent in the garden. Lucifer was kicked out for asking questions, Crowley was kicked out for asking questions. Lucifer was the god of light, Crowley was tasked with the "let there be light" quote. He has crimson locks, as does Crowley. He cracked a miracel so big is shocked the Archangels. He knew Megatron on site when even Michael/Uriel didnt. Not only did he open GABRIEL'S file, the supreme Archangel, but they make sure to lean into how rare that was, and i suspect Muriel couldnt thus why she let him do it. If they arnt planning on doing it, they are well aware of the speculation and playing into it to a red herring degree. Ied settle for baraquiel. @@artemiswolf4508
Either Crowley's memories *were* lost, OR he was just messing with them.
I think Crowley knows exactly who Furfar & Saraqael are - he just pretends not to remember them to irritate them! He seems to remember the others [Michael, Uriel etc] and also remembers creating the stars, as well as remembering "hanging out with the wrong people" before he fell ...
Why doesn't Archangel Michael recognise the Metatron but Crowley does?
When Crowley recognises Metatron I'm left wondering if he recognises the face from the screen or weather he recognises the being of Metatron and the face is irrelevant. Michael who was in that "conference call" didn't recognise Metatron.
We have some subtext here too, we have the look from Metatron to Crowley, we have the musical sting, and thanks to the medium we have meta moment of The Doctor and The Master (Yana) facing off
That is a very good question. Although I would note that Saraqael clearly recognized him. She goes immediately into a prayer pose. I'm not sure what you are referencing with the musical sting, doctor and master (yana)? What's that all about?
@@Sendarya When the Metatron is about to leave the bookstore with Az to chat at the coffee shop he locks eyes with Crowley and there is sinister musical sting. Episode 6 time code 36mins 15 seconds.. even the sub titles say "tense music playing". It's completely different to anything on the show thus far.
In Doctor Who Derek Jakobi (The Metatron) played Professor Yana who was revealed to be The Master, he was David's first Master before John Simm took the role. I suspect the casting is a wink to that relationship.
Saraqael is far smarter it seems than Michael and Uriel, she seems to infer from context. Metatron specifically calls Crowley out "You know me demon"
It's all quite interesting
Ah, thank you for the clarification! I did recognize the look that the metatron gives Crowley, though it put me onto a whole other theory, concerning Aziraphale and Crowley as a duo, as opposed to Crowley alone.
Honestly I think the reason Crowley recognizes Metatron and the other angels* don't - even though they had probably more contact with him over the millenials - is because the angels have been shown to be quite ignorant and desinterested towards anyone and anything but themselves.
Metatron appeared in a human form, which means that as a human, he is just not important enough to be perceived properly.
Crowley on the other hand has been cast out of heaven *because* he cares too much and has been shown to develop a great interest in other people.
So in short, the angels are just pricks and Crowley isn't.
* cinnamon roll Aziraphael is excluded of this statement, obviously
Crowley also said when asked if he recognized Metatron, that the LAST time he saw him he was a gigantic floating head, definitely implying he remembered him from other past interactions.
You didn't mention the bit of editing that had Gabriel saying he's the only Archangel of his rank in the universe and the cut straight to Crowley, which, to me at least, pretty much confirms he used to be that high up.
Also, an interesting bit I found on the Wikipedia page for Archangel is that Gabriel, Michael, Uriel and Raphael were referred to as princes, but not Lucifer, so the institutional problem line has another interpretation.
Of course, everything is up to Neil's interpretation in the end, but I'm still basically Crowley was Raphael trash, I've been a fan of that theory since 2019, so I'd just love to see it be true, if we ever find out.
Hey, it's all open to our own interpretation, until Neil tells us otherwise! Thank you for checking out the video :)
About gabriel and crowly. I wondered kinda about crowlys emotional reaction towards gabriel when he meets him in the shop, and all the reactions, all of emotional nature he has to him. Crowly seems to fear him. But in heaven, he fears no other angels or archangels...ah, i really would like to know...so much fun , all the speculation😊
@@crolmacI find it plausible that he was a pretty "big shot" (big enough for his questions to pose a threat, because the Metatron seems to have a personal issue with that), just not all up there. So below the Metatron, Gabriel, and a couple more angels. But probably outranked Aziraphale.
Aziraphale's name is too close to Raphael though, so I'd cross that out. He talked about Lucifer in third person, so, unless his memories were meddled with, also a no. I found one archangel in the Eastern Orthodox church, Selaphiel, whose name though straight up means "I have asked God". "He is said to help people interpret dreams, break addictions, protect children, preside over exorcisms, and rule over music in heaven." There is also Jerahmeel, whose name means "May God have pity/God shall have mercy" and we know that Crowley likes to take pity on people ("Don't test them to death.") , even if in a really roundabout way when there is someone to see it. This one might be synchronous with Ramiel, who is named as a fallen angel. These are from wikipedia though, so... Take it with a grain of salt.
Uriel
I found that cut straight to Crowley interesting too but even more interesting was that his eyes were shut as far as I could see - memory issues perhaps
Personally I like to go with the idea of Aziraphale changing his name to Raphael since I think it could play into his character arc if he does recognize how Heaven’s treatment of him and others has affected them. Plus I think it could be a callback to Furfur being unable to pronounce his name, so Aziraphale would choose to shorten it.
(Also I think I recall Neil Gaiman saying on Tumblr that the reason Raphael wasn’t shown in Season 1 was simply because he liked the name Sandalphon more because of how funny it sounds 😂)
I think either Baraqiel or Kokabiel could be Crowley’s old name. As for why he’s forgetful about things, I think it was simply due to time or because he used to be in a position where he felt he didn’t need to recall people. I also recall him telling Jim that he doesn’t recall why gravity exists in the episode where Jim drops books because he couldn’t understand why it exists. (Side note: i think it would be interesting if Crowley played a part in humans discovering gravity considering that an apple falling sparked the question, and Crowley had ties to the Tree of Knowledge as the one who convinced Eve to eat the fruit. I think it could have been a way for him to explain to someone why it exists while he still remembered its purpose.)
I like this very much. I wonder if Aziraphale is Raphael?
(azi)Raphale, Raphael, this just makes sense to me, even as a casual viewer. Kokabiel seems like a very good candidate for Crowley. Although, I hope Aziraphale keeps that name, it's so iconic
I LOVE your side note idea! I hope they incorporate that somehow in season 3 even if it doesn't really matter to the plot, I just think that sounds so on brand for him haha beautiful
This is super interesting! After watching this, I have to say my money is on Kokabiel (thanks for bringing him to my attention).
At the very least, I think that's probably who Neil and Terry might have been using as their model for Crowley's backstory.
But I agree that Crowley's pre-Fall identity is probably not going to be very significant, if it's ever canonically revealed. Because Crowley isn't that angel anymore. And he doesn't want to be. He is Crowley, and would like to remain himself, thank you very much.
Exactly! He is Crowley. And also, thank you. :)
On the premise that at the end of the day it all depends on what Neil has in his head, I always enjoy looking these things up. In my opinion Crowley is indeed a Throne: the description is that of two intersecting toothed wheels, one spinning back and forth and one moving sideways, and they also possess innumerable eyes. Crowley made the stars by spinning two intersecting wheels and his characteristic feature is his snake eyes. In a list of Thrones angels I found, there's an angel with the initial I: I noticed that the letter J often becomes I or Y and Crowley in S1 has Anthony J. Crowley as his name. Aziraphale asks him what the J stands for and Crowley just says that it's placed there at random. But what if it's not? If one considers the change of letters between J, I and Y, the only Throne angel with one of these initials is Yeiayel, meaning "The Right Hand of God", a guide to discovery, a guardian angel (Crowley always protects Aziraphale and eventually humanity as well), the most human of the Thrones, protects from storms along the way and in life in general, among other things... Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I would like the Raphael idea so much because it's like he doesn't exists, but I don't think this is the case (because no fallen), but I'm SO curious where they will go with Crowley!!
As for Aziraphale, I too thought that he might become Raphael, because he wants to 'cure' evil, in the most generic way possible (including the work of Paradise). It's in the name. It depends on whether angels change their names like demons seem to do. Then, the various information I found on Raphael included that he possessed a flaming sword and was guarding the east gate of Eden (a task apparently belonging to the Cherubim class) and even guarding the tree of life as a serpent (symbol of medicine, by the way). The problem is that there are many different versions about the angels, it depends which one Neil and Terry chose, or whether they mixed it up.
That is a very well thought out and researched idea concerning the J/y and Yeiayel. I mean, why bring up the J at all unless it matters? That description does sound like it fits! I hadn't heard this idea before, thank you so much for sharing!
@@SendaryaI thought the "J" was because David's real middle name is John (a nod to Staged where David and Michael make a big thing about their middle names).
Oh my gosh, I bet you are right! They do a lot of nods to the actors and their other works (Doctor Who), so this makes perfect sense! A lot of the easter eggs are not internal clue, but just fun little find like that. I loved that argument they had about who would be billed first! lol
It might be worth mentioning here that the Islamic name for Raphael is Israfil. Sounds familiar, doesn't it...
@@traceyadixonI’m pretty sure the J is in the book.
Crowley had to be an extremely high up class of "Angel" since he was able to actually stop time in Season One.... haven't heard any of the others (including Gabriel or Metatron do that). It would be nice to know the answer to who Crowley used to be. Maybe he is a mixture of many angels/archangels.
It likely is a mixture, I agree. I'm not sure we'll ever find out for sure, though.
Good thought. I think with this show's affinity for symbolism that it's likely he is a representation of a few different angels in combination.
I feel like Crowley and Gabrial don't remember the "lesser" agents of heaven is because they are so high above them. As in rank and frequency, they are aware of the lesser levels beings, but so high above it may be difficult to see them individually. Azi is the only one Crowley actively remembered when he runs into him again.
This is also what I think!
@@Sendarya & @Prairiepagan316-- It also explains why, in reply to Aziraphale's self-introduction (𝙐𝙝𝙝𝙢...𝙃𝙚𝙡𝙡𝙤. 𝙄'𝙢 𝘼𝙯𝙞𝙧𝙖𝙥𝙝𝙖𝙡𝙚...) Crowley quips an auto: 𝐍𝐢𝐜𝐞 𝐦𝐞𝐞𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐲𝐨𝐮 before turning away. He does NOT give a name. He doesn't need to. And he doesn't really register Aziraphale as an individual. He's just a (lesser ranked) angel.
The thing I keep thinking about is the multiple times that Crowley says that he didn’t mean to fall…. There are three instances where he says this or similar. I guess that swings me into the Raphael camp. I think season three will be an exciting reveal of several things, not just Crowley’s original identity.
I agree, but also think maybe Crowley once worked with, or commanded, the Metatron. That's some personal hatred directed at Crowley. Other fallen angels with whom Metatron hadn't known wouldn't get that loathing.
@@mikaylastrong7622 it would also explain why he says "I understand more then you do" to Aziraphale, if he was really above the others then he must know things that aziraphale don't
Honestly? I think Crowley being Raphael would be super interesting. I think that it’s possible Crowley’s love for life that he denies he has could be some kind of connection to him being Raphael, since he was the archangel of healing. Just some food for thought. 😊
Yeah! Also in the book, after Crowley and Aziraphale went to Warlock’s birthday party, it’s Crowley and not Aziraphale who brings the dove back to life, if I remember correctly, so that could tie into the angel of healing bit
To be honest: I wouldn't mind if his angelic name was never revealed. Because he is Crowley now and that's what matters most. He doesn't want to be back in Heaven anymore, so he doesn't want to think about his past.
Personally, I completely agree.
More possibilities for fanfiction if it is never revealed
More clues: he can stop time (and I haven't seen anyone else ever do that), the Metatron clearly remembers him (and not fondly), and even as a demon, he was tasked with important stuff, like stirring up trouble in Eden and delivering the Antichrist - you don't give these kinds of jobs to a nobody. I, for one, am definitely on the Raphael train. I mean, apart from Gabriel, Uriel and Michael, that is one of THE four archangel names - and he's conveniently missing in Good Omens. Lucifer has been debunked by Neil Gaiman, and also, Crowley did talk about "Lucifer and the guys", so that's easily dismissed. As for Baraquiel, that also makes little sense in my opinion, because that angel was mentioned AS AN ANGEL in a book for demons that mentions Crowley as a demon. Baraquiel was only the next angel mentioned after Aziraphale, that's why we saw that entry. There's another interesting option, though: Jophiel, which might explain the "just a J, really"...I sort of hope that we'll never really find out, though - it's nice to keep speculating!
That's a darned good point. Now I am thinking that "duke of hell" may well be a mythical or rumored status, or one that Beelzebub made up on the spot. Because who the heck gets to be a "duke of hell" if not the guardian of the Antichrist? Both in "delivery" (tee hee) and in upbringing?
@@lexismore My personal take is that there are ranks and titles like duke and so on in Hell, but that Crowley might be apart from that whole ranking system altogether. For one, because he doesn't strike me as someone who'd compete for such titles, and also because he's in a special position anyway, being topside for most of the time.
Thank you for making these videos, amazing content. I enjoy the thought that Crowley actually does remember Furfur and Saraqael, but he invented ‘pretending not to remember someone as a power move’
That really is such a Crowley thing to do!
I think he would probably be a mix of multiple angels similarly to aziraphale. But if they end up using it as a big reveal it's more likely that they would choose a specific/more recognizable angel. Really it could go multiple ways. Any of these things are possible. And personally, who he used to be (regardless of what theory is right) wouldn't change the story up until now in any meaningful way. It's just something we as fans would find interesting. Whether it becomes important later remains to be seen.
Excellent points. I do think who he IS matters far more than who he was, as well. But I agree, it's fun and interesting to speculate :)
Great video. For a big reveal the only ones that make sense to me for general audiences to be shocked is Lucifer or Raphael. They are names everyone knows. I had never heard of the others before this fandom. But I agree that Aziraphale is Raphael or about to be.
I haven’t ruled Lucifer out because Neil could very well be fibbing. Why tell the truth if this is meant to be a plot twist? And honestly I think Lucifer fits Crowley most. The snake, tempting Jesus, let there be light, tempting Aziraphale to eat/drink, the arrangement, rebel against the Great Plan. Crowley is prideful in his appearance, his flash car, posh flat, he has a damn throne, other demons agree that Crowley thinks he’s better than them, he questioned and equated himself to god when he said, “if i was running it all.”
Then there’s the envy of humanity and Crowley’s subconscious decision to live like them. The ability to have choice, create and be proud, make mistakes and seek forgiveness, fall in love and devote yourself to them rather than love the whole universe the same.
I think a story where Lucifer wasn’t the epitome of evil but a scapegoat used to cover up how corrupt heaven was makes a good deal of sense for the show. A Lucifer who rejects heaven and hell and buried his own name out of shame. And the kingdom to rival heaven is actually earth, he doesn’t want to rule it (he’s anti authority). But he does want to be left alone with His angel and the 7.8 billion humans they’ve been co-parenting for 6000 years.
So... In your h/c Crowley isn't just Lucifer but is The Prince of Darkness Himself?
And the Satan that we see as Adam's Despondent Dad in the familiar horned form from S1 is...a Puppet Satan?? Or just the willing ruler over a kingdom that Crowley never wanted?
@@lexismore so in my headcanon/theory. Satan is the ruler of hell, and was another archangel like Azazel. Crowley is the fallen supreme archangel Lucifer. But didn’t want Hell. He chooses to wander earth instead. Lucifer was a scapegoat. And the depictions of him as evil is a cover up. Heaven has an institutional problem. He fell because he questioned the system or refused to comply like Gabriel did. Both those scenes talking about it involved Crowley.
Crowley gets blamed a lot for inciting things he didn’t do in show, (the French Revolution, Spanish Inquisition, WW1 and WW2).
Crowley rejects who he was. Doesn’t agree with either side, a rebel without a cause. He avoids his past, he’s running from it. So my theory is Metatron needs Crowley who is Lucifer off the board to enact the Second Coming. Because Crowley & Aziraphale rebelled against the Great Plan in S1. Metatron has worked out that to stop Crowley you need to take control of Aziraphale. To rebel again now will place him in direct opposition to Aziraphale. But Metatron doesn’t realise what a loose cannon Aziraphale actually is. He thinks he’s targeting the softer one, the nicer one. Look at that manic smile end of s2, The Metatron fucked up.
How do we know that Aziraphale and Crowley didn’t switch places again? They have to be in physical contact to switch, right? Maybe that’s what the kiss was about (or at least a secondary reason besides the feelings involved). Aziraphale’s manic smile could’ve been Crowley expressing satisfaction at a plan he and Aziraphale concocted falling into place.@@MsKnowItAll26
also theres this "clue" that hinted crowley was a higher rankings angel, it was the whole 25 lazari/lazarii and Neil elaborate more on the miracle measurement like 2 days ago in his tumblr ask. personally i still havent fully understand 25 lazarii bit but from what i gathered what was supposed to be the tiniest joint miracle by both him and aziraphale turned out worth 25 lazari or (almost?) powerful enough to 'bring back the dead'. Neil said small miracle's worth from mililazari-centilazari or something along the lines, so the 'tiny' joint miracle ended up alerting heaven due to how big it actually was could be a clue how high crowleys rank was and possibly outranked aziraphale
Did Neil say it was a clue to how powerful Crowley was, or did he just explain how the measurement worked? If you could link me the post, I'd be very appreciated! I looked and can't find it.
Shax tells Crowley that there was a powerful miracle that "only the mightiest of Archangels could perform". He responds "How do you know I didn't do it". She doesn't react like "no you aren't strong enough" or something, meaning Shax thinks Crowley could have performed it, so he must be very powerful.
The big thing to remember with Gaiman is that he loves all the apocripha. To the point of putting Adam's un-named second wife in "The Sandman" which is a deep-DEEP cut from the abandoned texts. With Gaimin, the question is, which high ranking fallen angel would be the least known, and have the most story elements to them.
This was a fun watch, I wonder if Crowley was ever a named angel, but Im way more interested in what actual rank he had. From the scene with him opening Gabriels file onward I've been convinced he was very high up originally. He even spoke the words 'let there be light' usually attributed to God, so he must be important. Very much looking forward to a new season
I'm not sure that him saying "let there be light" is significant, since Aziraphael said the same thing in season one in order to create light after Crowley hit Anathema with his car.
Oh man i really believed Crowley could be Lucifer, since Lucifer means the one who ignites the light , and we see Cowley in the opening of seasons 2 turn on a small Fire and he says "let there be light' so im puzzeled ! I think aziraphale might find out in season 3 by accident since he now has acess to all the files 👀 we find out trough him
Someone pointed out that a hint might be the throne Crowley sits in at his flat. Maybe he’s a throne and that’s our clue
I hadn't considered the throne, that might be a hint! Thank you for sharing that.
Awesome theories, thank you. I have just one little detail to add to this video - the staff that was showed briefly when talking about Raphael is in fact a cadueus, a symbol of Hermes. The rod of Aesculapius has only one snake and no wings.
Ah, thank you for the correction! If I ever do a followup video, I will make sure to note that!
Before watching this i did like the idea of Crowley being Raphael, the name roles off the tongue. Now I'm open to anything. I do think he was of a higher rank, one that would have had impossible standard to meet in a flawed society. The amount of power he wields along with how extensive his knowledge of heaven seems at time gives weight to that theory as well.
Out of these options, I like Baraqiel, as the actual text of the show (the book) seems to point that way. The war could have been quite long, with more angels joining Hell as it went on, so the book might have been written during the war, when Crowley was still on Heaven's side.
Crowley also can be Archangel Jophiel . Archangel Jophiel and fallen angel name meanings are similar. Both are angels who represent the forces of justice and mercy. Their powers may be enhanced or unlocked through love. Jophiel is also associated with the highest form of beauty, infinite beauty, which is higher than any other form of beauty. Jophiel can use people to get what she wants. Also Crowley's full name is "Anthony J Crowley" , he said that j stand's for nothing, but what if J is Jophiel?
I thought Crowley was just being an ass when not remembering Furfur and Saraqael. As in, he knows who they are but wanting them to feel they’re not worth remembering. Knock them down a peg or 2. That’s how I took it. Especially with Furfur who seems to think he’s more important than he actually is.
That is also a possibility.
Could be Ariel? He represents pretty much all elements in the show. He controls his plants with an iron fist, he clearly has no issues with fire, he can summon a downpour, and when he's frustrated, he brings the lightning down. Plus Ariel is commonly known as a female mermaid with red hair, so there's your scales.
That is another possibility! If I do a part 2, I will include Ariel for sure. Thank you for the idea!
Here's another theory: What if Azi and Crowley are the angel and devil on the shoulders of God? Her different ways to deal with Her creations. While using them to be up-close and personal to humans and decide whether Her creation is worth keeping?
Interesting idea!
I don't know if someone has mentioned this before, but when I rewatched the last episode yesterday, I stumbled across something: When Crowley accesses Gabriels file, Gabriel says at one point that he is the only archangel of the 1. order in the universe. At that exact moment the perspektive changes and we see Crowleys pondering face. Could be coincidental of course, since the perspektive switches several times, but the timing seemed certainly interesting.
Yes, that's a very interesting cut!
At Crowleys flat is actually a chair, that looks like a throne, so i think, he must be a Throne and this is higher ranked as an Archangel (the nine choirs of angels say so)
Crowley's Angelic identity is one of those things that I'm very curious about, but I'm not sure if finding out will make the story better or worse, and I'm not sure if who he was before really matters, other than how it affects Crowley going forward.
Personally, if Gaiman decides that Crowley’s other existence is relevant, then we will find out.
I personally would rather not know who he was or what rank he was as it’s not him any more.
I just thought his “missing memories” were just showing how little he cared about those parts of his life.
Actually, and I didn't want to influence those watching the video, this is where I come down on the whole discussion as well. I don't think it matters who he was, only who he IS.
@@Sendarya indeed. Sorry if my comment sounded rude, it’s getting late in the day and when I’m tired, I tend to say things more bluntly than I intended. I just wanted to say how I hope the actual canon will stay.
I think Crowley’s rank might be passingly addressed, and I know headcanoning Crowley’s old Angel identity is fun for some people, and I wouldn’t want to take that away or shame anyone for it.
Either way it isn’t a major issue, either way.
@@MidoriyamaRArekusu No, no! Not rude at all :) I was just agreeing with you. I love the theories, or I wouldn't make these. I was just saying in this instance, I don't think we ever will, or maybe even should, find out.. Just my own opinion. :)
@@Sendarya same.
I just came back because my comment felt a little short and angry when it wasn’t meant to (the trouble with establishing tone in written form.)
I do find theories interesting, but I always felt that fixating on Crowley’s past kind of misses the point about him being at peace with being who he is.
Also I would like if the two were close to equal ranks before things went south.
I think it would be bad writing for this angle. too many mentions of his memory that implies something. if all this is irrelevant it would be like a movie solving all its problems by saying it was all a dream- a cop out
If he is Azazel, that makes his scene with Job's goats even more relevant.
Exactly!
Also when he's watching Noah load the Ark just prior to the flood, he says, "Not the kids. You can't kill kids," while the camera is on the goats. Though that may just have been playful writing and not mean anything.
@@JessicaTPetersonit's the kind of thing that may very well have been just a throwaway line in S1, but which Neil realised he could expand and make relevant when he was working on S2
It’s also interesting that when Aziraphale and Crowley do their “half miracle,” Shax tells Crowley that a miracle was detected that only the most powerful of Archangels could have performed. Since we know Aziraphale is a principality, maybe we can deduce the power for the miracle came from Crowley? Of course, there are some theories suggesting that because a demon and angel did the miracle together that may have super charged it. But I think taken with the scene of Crowley accessing the files in Heaven and interacting with Saraquel, that these scenes are shown to the audience to demonstrate that Crowley was Archangel.
In season two, when Beelzebub tells Crowley about the Extreme Sanctions as a consequence to helping Gabriel he tells them those don’t actually exist and "we just used to joke about them to frighten the Cherubs", therefore implying that the Cherubs were inferior to him in some way, probably because of lower status or less knowledge. Both of which would imply that Crowley is an Archangel and since Lucifer is out of the question it is most likely that he is Raphael. It would also make it interesting to find out who Beelzebub was before their fall; does Crowley mean to include Beelzebub in the "we" he’s talking about or is Beelzebub one of the Cherubs that he made fun of, which they indicate by believing in the possibility of Extreme Sanctions.
Anyway, that’s why I think Raphael makes most sense for Crowley but I also think that when the book of Good Omens was written that Gaiman and Pratchett hadn’t really thought about his previous angelic self and now that a season two was possible and a season three might be, too, it might become relevant. So that might be a reason (in my opinion) why the answer to this question is not totally obvious from the start or doesn’t add up to 100%.
All true, but as with archangel, there appears to be two rankings of cherub. Cherub with a capitol C, and cherubs as in baby angels. It's all very confusing, and even Neil doesn't have a fixed hierarchy, so it's hard for us to figure it out, lol.
Great points about how the story has hat to evolve from the book, through s1 and s2. It might indeed become relevant, even if it wasn't originally! Thank you for that very well thought out post!
Thanks :) And definitely thank you fortgesetzt very well thought out video, it was really informative.
I think it‘s also very interessant, that eventhough Crowley is now a demon, he can still perform things that one might think online in angels are capable of (like opening Gabriel‘s file). Same goes for Aziraphale being able to posess a Human, eventhough this skill is only expected to be executed by Demons. That is then explained by the fact that Angels and Demons are of the same origin. Makes me wonder: What else are they capable of, that is only expected to be capable of doing from one side?
It‘s so interesting because technically, Demons ARE Angels, but they are just „fallen“. They are changed in some ways (can‘t survive holy water) but some things stay (like apparently the influence of their former rank on files). Where are the limits? Where do things cross?
Also - something that somehow slipped my mind for a while - it’s worth noting that Crowley is actually a pretty special demon (not just talking about his morals and behavior in general, although they are also outstanding for both Angels and a Demons). For example: Crowley is the only demon who has an imagination - which by the way he can use to literally change reality. When he drove in his burning Bentley together with Hastur, the latter discorporated and dissapeared. Why? Because he couldn’t Imagine surviving something like this. Crowley on the other hand didn‘t discorporated. If it was Crowley simply performing a miracle, Hastur technically could have done it too. But no. It is explained that Crowley - and his car - were only capable of surviving this, because he imagined it to be that way. And he did it because he actually DETICATED his skills and Powers on something, not just doing something quick and simple.
(One might say that his imagination comes from him spending so much time on Earth with humans, but I don‘t feel like that this is the actual reason, but maybe something else). He also seems to be the only demon who can completely stop time, which is a very powerful skill of you ask me.
Really makes me wonder 1.) how high his Angel Rank is and 2.) how powerful he actually is, when he uses his full potential.
Well spotted! That is such a great observation.
@agent_277 Maybe I use it in my next video?
Imagination does seem to be something rare in angels and demons. Does Crowley have it naturally, or did he gain it by being on earth? Now I have questions! Thank you for the great comment!
I will say that Baraqiel is often confused with Barachiel. With a Q is a fallen angel listed in the book of Enoch, with a Ch is a holy angel in many eastern churches. Because their names are so similar it is common for them to overlap sometimes.
Despite how fun the theories of where in the hierarchy Crowley stood, I don't think his previous name or angelic identity matters. They're always Crowley. What does his deadname matter? He's defined himself as Crowley and *that scene* before Azi goes back to heaven outlines ot perfectly. Crowley is Crowley and isn't defined by heaven
I feel like they all kind of fit just to the point where I'll be satisfied if it is any of them or like some sort of combination, but I just hope they explain more crowley lore because I need it he is my fave.
If he were to be n archangel, Crowley being one of the lesser known archangels would make sense. Instead of outright banishing him, they just discreetly removed him from relevency over the years. Hence why he "sauntered vaguely down". 😂😂
Interesting idea! I hadn't considered that he might have been sort of demoted or at least just sort of pushed to the side before the fall. Great idea!
@@Sendaryathanks 🤣
I'm a bit late on this but, i saw an interview with Neil and David recently where they talked about the writing and that Crowley and Aziraphale were once one character. Now, going off of how Neil and Sir Terry write, i have a theory that they were both a single character made up of a mix of Azazel and Raphael both.
Any thought on whether or not Crowley's chosen human name Antonny J Crowley would tie into his former angel identity? I like the idea of him having a J- angel name.
This is not an idea I had heard before, or considered myself. Very interesting! Do you have any specific J-named angels in mind?
Jeremiel?
I've heard people throw around the archangel Jophiel. Known for their beauty, to be truth-seeking (Crowley's questions!), and is also depicted as both man and woman shaped. Interestingly, they're also known for carrying a flaming sword.
The other stuff pans out but I think the whole emphasis on the "beauty of god" thing doesn't really fit with Crowley all too much. I mean yeah he's hot, but no link to the stars at all!
Me though? I kinda hope he's Kokabiel. The fallen angel of the stars.
@ineffable_elspeth Thats what I thought!
@Sendarya101 I was thinking of Archangel Jophiel.
"Jophiel’s name, which means “beauty of God,” reflects her role as an angel of beauty. She is believed to help individuals see the beauty in themselves and the world around them, enabling them to appreciate the wonder and majesty of creation."
But to be honest, their description fits Aziraphale more than it does Crowley. Crowley loved the stars and can be seen as an artist. But apparently, Jophiel also guarded the Garden of Eden.
"Jewish tradition says that Jophiel was the angel who guarded the Tree of Knowledge and cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden when they sinned in the Torah and the Bible, and now guards the Tree of Life with a flaming sword. Jewish tradition says that Jophiel supervises the Torah’s readings on Sabbath days."
So I'm unsure if Jophiel could be Crowley.
Ok, so Crowley originally helped create the galaxy and remembers going into battle in heaven and may be a commander of armies. His fall sounded very sudden, and since then he's been creating trouble here and there. He knows the next battle will be humanity vs heaven/hell. We know he negotiates creatively and leads civilians to safety (Shax and the ball), and he hates the idea of children getting hurt (flood, Job).
What if instead of running away to Alpha Centauri, he realizes he has to stay and help humanity in the next great conflict. He leads human armies as things go weird (What's that Queen song about "hopes of the young in troubled graves"? The Prophet's Song. ), then he uses his associations with both heaven and hell to negotiate a settlement for the next 1000 years of peace. There may be some parallel between his going into battle before and now, but now he makes a different choice at a crucial point that results in a more positive outcome, especially with a habitual forgiver in charge in heaven. With everything Crowley and his imagination can do with computer hacking, travelling in phone lines, shape-shifting, changing his size, controlling the weather, fire, and time..., season three could be really intense.
I’ve given quite a bit of thought to Crowley’s previous identity before he “sauntered” downwards. At first, after getting hooked on “Good Omens” through Fanfiction, I was convinced that Crowley was a Fallen Raphael. Then I actually watched the series. (Yes, I got things a little backwards.) I briefly considered Lucifer as well, but tossed that theory out after watching your theory breakdown in this video. I really like your theory about Kokabiel. It really makes sense, but for most they’re an unknown. I also considered angels whose names start with “J”, but J-named Angels don’t appear to be Fallen from what I’ve seen (I could be wrong since I only really did a cursory search). However, there’s actually ONE name that we may have overlooked. One that Crowley himself gave us in the first season. I found a list of Fallen Angels on “Angelicpedia” and imagine my surprise when right there under “A” was a familiar name. Astaroth. (Not a perfect fit, but strikingly close and I thought it might be worth mentioning.) Anyway, according to Angelicpedia, Astaroth is a Fallen Angel who just happens to also be a Grand Duke in Hell. He’s also referred to as the Lord of Wrath who looks down on the other Sin Lords and doesn’t actually make any effort to recruit mortals to his cause, “confident that those who have been profoundly wronged will speak his name”. Astaroth is pretty big on revenge and according to Miniprinten “revenge is his ultimate goal and unwavering fury is his instrument”. (Admittedly this seems more based on games, but I thought the information interesting since Crowley has shown that he has quite the temper.) And according to Wikipedia, Astaroth (with three alternate spellings provided: Ashtaroth, Astarot, and Asteroth) is a Great Duke of Hell in the 1st hierarchy right up there with Beelzebub and Lucifer, and is part of the evil trinity. He apparently tempts through laziness, self-doubt and rationalized philosophies. He teaches mathematical sciences (attempting to teach “Jim” about gravity?) and handicrafts, can make men invisible (again, he worked with Aziraphale to render “Jim” invisible as Gabriel) and answers questions posed to him. He’s also associated with serpents. I’m by no means a demonology expert nor am I much of a researcher, but it just seemed to be a bit too much of a coincidence that Crowley named himself “Nanny Ashtoreth” and there happens to be a Fallen Angel named Astaroth. (Also, Shax named him “Archdemon” which could be a reference to his position as a Grand Duke (or Archduke?) of Hell. Anyway, food for thought. =^_^=
Amazing video!! personally i love the idea that Azi will become Raphael but we will have to wait and see :D
Thank you so much! Yes, the great words of our fandom, wait and see! And so we shall. The video concerning Aziraphale possibly being Raphael should be posted by Thursday. I hope you check it out!
I also wonder why crowly recognized the floaty head guy while al the other angels (who should know him) didn't and even aziraphale (who had just spoken to him last season) didn't realize until crowly said it and he wasn't even there when azi talked to him in that portal so how would crowly be so familiar with that head he could recognize him after all that time when even the other Archangels didn't 🤔 and also he knew crowly would recognize him
Alternate interpretation to him not remembering Furfur and Saraquael… he remembers them just fine but is pushing their buttons. Furfur wants to social climb but he’s bad at it at his own admission. When he presents as a threat to Aziraphale and Crowley, Crowley uses his previous knowledge of Furfur to get under his skin and distract him long enough for Aziraphael to come up with something. Saraquael is a second order archangel and seems to actually work, unlike the others, but is often overlooked and underestimated. Gabriel didn’t remember her name even after he got his memories back. Crowley could have just been annoying her because that’s what he does. He definitely seems to have memories from before the fall… Aziraphale, Lucifer and the guys.., maybe Gabriel, Michael and Uriel. Crowley likes pushing buttons.
This is where I've come down on the issue as well. He just likes pushing their buttons. There is no memory issue, not a real one. I agree!
There is a part where crowley says he didn't fall he sauntered downwards. So I am still thinking Raphael.
Raphael is a very popular choice, and I do see why!
7:50 Not to mention Crowley literally talked about hanging out with "Lucy and the Gang" in the privacy of his own home while monologuing sadly to the ceiling/God. There would be no reason for pretense there.
Now I can’t see the demon crowd outside the bookstore without thinking of Michael Jackson’s, Thriller video.
I’ve got a bit of a vague one for during the final 15
“I don’t think you understand what I’m offering you”
“I think I understand a whole lot better than you do.”
Crowley is letting Azi know he’s been in his position of power and he couldn’t change anything
Ahhh ! Great observation!
brilliant! Good show!
From just the show (didn't read the books) I'm wondering if Crowley is more special than just a former high ranking angel. He seems to stand somewhat apart from both angels and demons, he has all this independence and agency, over the millennia Aziraphale was seemingly the only other somewhat like-minded being he could connect with. If he had a prominent role in creating the universe, I think he is even more powerful than he has revealed yet. I can't help but speculate that the god on the show would find Crowley a worthwhile being to watch and maybe he's doing exactly what he was intended for without knowing it.
I love all this, because the possibilities are truly endless! I mean, he could be Raphael, and then you get a chance for Remiel and Duma (who Gaiman has used before in Sandman) to make an appearance. I mean, Remiel is sometimes described as a Fallen Watcher, and Duma as the Angel of Silence, and a Prince of Hell. Remiel is also a possible fit for Crowley - Remiel is the Angel of visions, dreams and watcher over the suffering - it's not the worst choice, and Neil has already put him in charge of Hell along with Duma before.
We will seriously just have to wait and see!
Sendarya: thanks so much for creating this video. It is so well done and gives a great deal for one to think about. I have pondered Crowley's identity ever since Season One; and have considered after watching Season Two that he is in fact Raphael.
That being said, the ideas you present here - and the additional named angels - provide some great food for thought. I will look forward to seeing the additional content you create here. You are correct that it will be some time before we get a Season 3 what with the various strikes underway; so having more material from great content creators such as yourself will be greatly appreciated.
Like you I have been thinking about Good Omens alot and most especially after the heartbreaking (in my opinion) Season 2 finale. The relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale was wonderful to behold in its complexity and tenderness. It was very clever and a good strategy of Neil Gaiman and the writers to allow for the ending to be as it was because it creates a wonderful dramatic tension and basis for plot of an additional season (or more).
Fantastic content here, again ... thank you for creating it.
Thank you so much, and I'm very glad you enjoy my content! I agree, Neil is a great writer, being able to movie between novels, graphic novels, and TV scripts with apparent ease. He certainly managed to create an dedicated fan base for this!
There are sooo many things to ponder over their significance. At times I think I’m looking too hard for meaning. Crowley’s inability to remember knowing who he fought with and who he made the stars and nebulas with was just to piss them off. I’d have to watch this video again but I think you made a reference to Neil Gaiman explaining it?
Neil really only debunked Lucifer, nothing else. I am on board with the Crowley pretends he didn't know people, or else he was honestly just that aloof... like how Gabriel doesn't know Saraquel's name. No memory wipe shenanigans needed, lol
I need there to be The Annunciation, when Gabriel tells Mary that she is pregnant. And he A and C point out how her husband will be upset and how this will look for poor Mary.
And have A and C convince Joseph that he should marry Mary right away to avoid being stoned.
Loved to see Joseph super upset but have Crowley coming him down and offer him something to make up for it.
I personally don't think it really matters who he was, I don't think we'll ever know what his name was. But I do think we'll find out his rank because it's really sus
Another thing to confirm Crowley wasn’t Lucifer: At one point he’s talking about his fall and says something along the lines of “I just got mixed up with the wrong crowd. Oh hey,Lucifer” which implies he was following Lucifer’s lead
Great video, what about that scene where Crowley is getting drunk after Azi discorporates, he mentions Lucifer and the guys and I have a feeling he's referring to himself. Might be wrong though :)
Gaiman has already nixed that
I have a feeling Gaiman knows nothing lol I'm leaning towards the idea that Pratchett was the main brains behind the books, so we might never know truth about Crowley's genesis.. @@maizie9454
Indeed, if you watch the video, I do show the related tublr posts where Neil Gaiman stated very directly that Crowley isn't Lucifer. It is understandable how people come to that conclusion, though.
I did, but I'm not buying that..@@Sendarya
I love all of this, and every comment too. I'm leaning towards Raphael because of the power he displays and because he's not as brainless as the other demons. However, there is one 'but'. A big one in my mind. In Eden Aziraphale asks Crowley ( 'Crawly' ) to introduce himself. If he had been Raphael, Aziraphale ought to have known. Of course memories could be wiped as we learn in S2, but story-wise I think it'd be something that needs answering (in S3?) if he was indeed a named and high-ranking angel. Lucifer's name after all isn't forgotten and no one's memory of Gabriel (and Beelzebebub) get removed. If I'm missing something in this regard I'm happy to be corrected of course!
Reasons for Raphael that I don't think you covered at all:
1. Raphael was said to create birds (Crowley is shown to care about and know the ducks as well as turn the goats to crows, also CROWly)
2. Raphael had to do with healing (Book Crowley healed Aziraphale's dove (another bird) as well as joked about Aziraphale healing the bike)
3. Raphael is most often shown with black wings and dark/red hair. (You chose one of the very few and more modern images without that look)
4. Raphael also had to do with snakes(His staff was related to snakes and his Isralie symbology was a snake itself).
5. There are stories about Raphael seeing the other archangels give an answer to god and get punished and he said a different answer which is a very Crowley thing to do to learn from others mistakes and LIE.
6. Raphael in another culture is the patron saint of seafarers because of his relation to the stars, being one of the ones who is said to have placed them in order to assist humanity.
7. Raphael was the ONLY Archangel to disguise himself and walk amongst humans pretending to be them amongst all the angels. The rest always did the whole 'be not afraid thing'.
Now while I love the Raph theory and think it has the most promise FAR surpassing every other angelic theory (since almost all of them have far less to go off of) I for one don't think Gaiman will ever give us an answer because it's considered a deadname. I personally think Crowley STOLE the password as an angel at some point. He remembers things that are important to him. His coworkers for the most part were not. The stars were important. Aziraphale is important.
Maybe he was an archangel but maybe not.
I agree that his past name will likely not every be be given t us. Not do I necessarily even think it should be. Thank you for all your well thought out points on Raphael!
Would like to point out also that during the scene where Crowley is watching Gabriel’s trial, and Gabriel says “I’m the only supreme arch angel in this room, or the whole universe”, there is a SUSPICIOUSLY long pause on Crowley’s face as he says this… 🤔😊
Your point about the potential relevance of his identity in S3 is such a good one. Thanks for the lovely analysis. Much to consider. Looking forward to your future analyses!
Hi again, I am curious if you have any thoughts on why Saraqael was able to recognize Crowley in Muriel's "office" when Michael and Uriel (and presumably others) had not immediately picked up on a demon mucking about at headquarters? How was Saraqael able to recognize Crowley when the others dismissed his presence as normal? Her willingness to engage his questions sets her apart from her colleagues. Maybe it's nothing more than a way to move the story along, but there is so much intentionality sewn into the writing and series, I figured I would ask if you had thoughts on Saraqael's contributions to that scene.
I hope that we do get to know his angel identity, otherwise my curiosity will be forever salty.
Did anybody commented about the tv series “Lucifer” on Fox/Netflix. It is slightly based on Neil Gaiman’s work. One of Lucifer’s previous name was “Samael, the light bringer” It’s possible that Neil might used that name as a separate identity from Lucifer and be its own character.
It’s also another of my favorite series to watch. it deeps dive into what causes Angels to fall and how people descend to hell or how to ascend to heaven. It’s a ton a fun and quite a ride if emotions. I highly recommend it to anybody who wants to fill in some of the Good Omens’ hole left in their hearts 😂
i think the scapegoat thing might also fit crowley since we know he fell "for a asking a few simple questions" which sounds unlikely even for heaven since aziraphale and even muriel have asked questions/done even worse things so perhaps lucifer and his buddies he talks about when mourning aziraphale ended up betraying him and blaming him for lots of things he had no part in 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀
Side note though, these videos are amazing! And I'd love to hear your opinion on the clock theory
I will add that to my research list. Thank you for brining it up, and the lovely compliment!
@@Sendarya I don't know how much stock I put in the theory itself. I just know that the one bit of in show evidence it has is pretty hard to ignore
@@emmajochum8682 It has something to do with Time and Crowley I presume? I've heard, and noticed, that there are often clocks in frame with him. I'll do some digging and see what I can find :)
@@Sendarya it's that all while aziraphale is talking about the heaven proposition, the time on the clock behind Crowley is something like 9:25. It doesn't show to move through the whole sequence. Then when Crowley leaves and metatron enters the shop a moment later, suddenly the clock is at 9:45. The theory is that Crowley stopped time and they talked out a game plan or something
Thank you for the info. I think I did see a theory about that in passing. I will check it out in more detail, thanks!
So after watching and reading some of the comments, i wonder how a “demon” was able to keep his angelic powers, of which there are many examples, and star making tool, if he is actually a >former< angel and not one in disguise?? What kind of a demon is not up for killing kids, and uses disguise to save them? What’s the significance of all the “demon’s” acts of service? Oi. My head hurts. 😅
Well, back in the book days and before series 2 I thought it would be funny if he'd called himself Anthony as an injoke cos it had been his angel name and I surmised he was clearly pretty chummy with Lucifer when they fell cos the fallen archangel gave him the job of being the serpent in the garden. BUT then series 2 opening pretty much showed us who he was actually. Cos I did some digging and lo and behold, up popped the fallen angel Kokabiel (Wikipedia has a few more spellings and also Kochab) Who according to the book of Enoch (aka Metatron) before he fell was considered the 'angel of the stars' due to the fact he taught constellations to his associates. And in Angel hierachy was a high ranking Watcher Angel. Although, in the Good Omen universe obviously our 'Kocky' old Kochab still fell alongside Lucifer and not as he's listed by Enoch some time later for fornicating with human women...Because well Crowley isn't into either humans or women ;-p BUT one final thing that lends itself to why God does seem to hold a soft spot for our Demon is that Kokabiel translates to 'The star of God'. Can I get a Wahoo?
Kokabiel is definitely one of the more probable options, I agree. I'm glad I included him in the video just for the reason you list. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and all the addition details, as well!
@@Sendarya *shrugs sheepishly* I admit I was so excited about my discovery I put it down for prosperity before I knew you had included him. But yeah- as soon as I saw that name I could also see the sort of annotations Terry and Neil included in the book, like, 'Crowley was rather glad nobody remembered his angel name. It had left him to put up with numerous puns around it, due to a mistaken belief it was spelt with a C- Although that had ended up being why he'd ended up as Crawley and not Krawley.
@@Sendarya Second reply. Okay so wait for this. Kokabiel has a rather curious connection to the author of 'The Book of the Angel Raziel' that being the Angel Raziel. Since while all other texts agree that Kokabiel is a fallen angel, his book says na ah, Kokabiel is still one of the good guys. And about Raziel, in Hebrew that book title is Sefer Raziel, (well the letters are there to concoct Azir-efel) plus Raziel also holds the title, 'The Keeper of All Magic.' And holds the rank of Principality of the Second Heaven. Oh and he was the angel who decided to help Adam survive after he was cast out. (But with a book not a flaming sword) Bonus content. In the 15thC a latin version of 'the Prayer of Adam' replaced Raziel with the archangel Raphael. But they aren't the same angel.
Interesting information! One of the issues with researching any of this is that the actual lore is a total mess, as one group or author freely borrows from another, and then Neil and Sir Pterry probably didn't directly use specific angels for Crowley and Aziraphale, but are probably a mash up of multiple lore (hence the similarities to multiple possible entities). I do like the idea that Kokobiel has a direct relation to a possible identity for Aziraphale (as either Raziel or Raphael). I like the connections! Azazel has a direct connection to Raphael as well.
@@Sendarya Oh I fully agree on your point about the actual lore😆But that has me thinking, if Barakiel being there IS meant to be a deliberate hint this is linked to Crowley, what if it's for the same reason that Sherrinford and indeed or Redbeard appeared as clues in Sherlock...🤔Meaning there's someone Crowley will have to reconcile with before he can reconcile with Aziraphale.
My headcanon is Kokabiel. I hope that S3 will give us insight into what his rank was, and why he fell. I do not want them to give us a name. One option would be to obscure it if it were spoken, much as Mrs. H's swear was covered up with the piano. While I am an Aziraphale-is-Raphael proponent, I like leaving Crowley's angel identity open to interpretation.
He must have been a Seraphim one of the fiery serpents guarding gods throne and no lower rank. An archangel. Found this on wikipedia: In the Apocalypse of Zephaniah, an apocryphal book which has come down to us in Coptic, the angel referred to as Eremiel tells Zephaniah
I am the great angel, Eremiel, who is over the abyss and Hades, the one in which all of the souls are imprisoned from the end of the Flood, which came upon the earth, until this day
Crowley's a Dominion. They're in charge of making the heavens move. He's a celestial mechanic.
If he'd been an archangel he'd be equivalent to Lucifer or just slightly under him. It wouldn't be two archangels falling as an institutional problem, but three.
I believe Kokabiel fits Crowley best from the description. If I was writing I would go with something more obscure than like either of Raphael or Azazel. Kokabiel gives the room to flesh things out.
I've never wanted to know Crowley's angel name and it was my head canon that he forgot his Angel name. Not because of a memory wipe but just because in season 1 when Aziraphale says you were an Angel once, he says "That's a long time ago." I wanted him to have just forgotten, but if he remembers meeting Aziraphale as an angel, he must remember. It was a fanfic head canon of mine because I thought Crowley changed his name during the war and no demons ever asked him for his name during the war. That's why he's been feeling lonely and isolated since the war and started to bond with Aziraphale when he asked his name. Then moreso when he finds out Aziraphale gave away the flaming sword. I didn't really want Aziraphale and Crowley to remember each other from before Eden, but I guess they do. Personally I don't think his angel name is important, but I think Crowley was a Throne, based on the chair in his flat in season 1.
I don't think it matters, either. I made this video early-on, and honestly, it sort of annoys me now? But it's part of my growth process, in understanding the show, and real people, so I leave it up for that reason. Can't hide my warts. :)
@@SendaryaI still like knowing the hidden Easter egg in the episode about it though. And it's always interesting to look at why certain information is revealed to the audience such as how Crowley can see the inside the files in heaven.
I enjoy Crowley ordering the angels and them listening to him. He saves Nina and Maggie from being turned into pillars of salt. It's interesting how both demons and angels respond to him.
I do believe that Crowley was actually a seraphim who was named Seraphiel. He would have been the highest rank of seraphim. Also Lucifer hand picked him personally to command by his side. This would make since when Crowley said "i just hung around the wrong people." Also, when seraphim come to Earth they leave behind their serpent appearances behind and perfers tall, thin, clean-cut human embodiments. Crowley is all of these. One of his powers is chronokinests or able to travel through time. Since he can control time. Seraphiel works very closely with Michael and Metatron. Which could explain how he recognized the Metatron.
I think we will see glimpses of Crowley's backstory at the beginning of each season until the final season. It is likely Season 3 will begin with a scene of why Crowley never wants to be an angel ever again.
I'm afraid we know for certain that season 3 will be the final season. But I do agree, we'll get more of Crowley's backstory!
When Aziraphale and Crowley joined forces to try to make a tiny, insignificant ,whisper of a half miracle.. it turned out so powerful that it was said it could have only been done by the most powerful archangel.. Since that isn't Aziraphale, (he was identified as a principality) it must have been Crowley. Or the two together are that powerful' for some ineffable reason
It might be Crowley, but I do think your latter guess is the correct one! 😁
It might have had something to do with holding Gabriel's hands. Maybe an ex-archangel is a power accelerant.
there's a clue that could point at the Starmaker being a Seraph. I don't think it should be taken with any seriousness, but it's a fun detail to consider: when Beelz tells Crowley about the "Extreme Sanctions", he says, "That isn't actually a thing?.. That's just something we used to joke about to frighten the Cherubs", which might imply 3 things:
1) neither Crowley nor Beelz used to be Cherubim
2) Crowley and Beelz used to joke around together, and likely had the same rank
3) it's very older sibling style behaviour (you'd need access to more information to pull a joke like that), so their rank was above the Cherubs, which in the traditional hierarchy leaves only the Seraphim. It would make a lot of sense too, since Beelz has such a high rank in Hell. The Metatron is a Seraph and, as of now, clearly outranks even the Supreme Archangel, but it might not have been true in the old days.
That is to say, it's also possible that Angel Crowley and Angel Beelz did not have the same rank and played those pranks on Cherubs just before the Fall, when they ran with Lucifer's gang of misfits.
I think, and I'm looking for it to be sure I'm not misstating this, but I think Neil said that the cherubs referred to in this scene are the lower case cherubs. Like, baby angels. It can all be rather confusing, since Neil and Terry didn't seem to use a specific hierarchy, and what they did use wasn't even fixed, lol. I do appreciate the post, and it definitely is older sibling behavior! I love your description of them as a gang of misfits, lol.
@@Sendarya yeah, I thought it could mean "baby angels" as well, that's why I don't think it's really "a Clue" 😄 but it's fun to imagine the Metatron looking at those goofs disapprovingly.
I know it's pointless like you mentioned, but the capital letter he seems to sign the document with is cursive, decorative T. Maybe it's how David writes the T in Tennant? That's how I make mine.
Interesting idea! It might be natural for him, lol.
taken from the web “Terry Pratchett has said that while the name [Aziraphale] was invented, it fits into angelic “canon” as it were, which is true in more than one religion.” This kind of supports my thoughts on the matter, that Crowley wasn’t really written as having been/intended to have been any specific angel. I think that rather we are just meant to know that he was a very high up angel.
He’d had extra high clearance as we were shown, and he was THE GUY igniting the whole universe for cryin out loud haha, I’d think it’d have to be someone very high up, deeply trusted and viewed as competent to get to be THE angel uttering the iconic phrase “let there be light” and given that specific task for God. He also does show sometimes extraordinary power (I’m still very compelled by how POWERFUL a miracle Aziraphale and Crowley created when they combined their powers. Was this meant to mostly represent that their powers were especially heightened due to their bond/love, or does it also help indicate that Crowley is an ESPECIALLY powerful being that was cast down?)
So my money is on Crowley having been just one of the Archangels, but not intended to be one of the more famous ones. Besides, a lot of the humor in the book/show is in following angels and demons as just “employees” of Heaven and Hell, just doing their jobs, and I think our story kinda just shows how two random fellas working as cogs in the machinery for opposing corporations end up being significant in the greater machinations, and finding love along the way.
We've seen Crowley perform several demonic miracles on his own, even miracles on Aziraphale's behalf, none of which have been indicated to be anything special.
So I think the 25 lazarii miracle isn't intended to be attributed to Crowley’s pre-Fall status; I think it's only intended to indicate that a demon and an angel working together and loving each other are immensely more powerful than celestial or demonic beings working against each other.
I think S3 is going to cement love as the central theme of Good Omens.
@@kalessinsdaughter5460 I’ve been thinking about it tho, his ability to summon lightning, stopping time and transporting he, Aziraphale and Adam to another plane of existence or faraway location (in the desert) when Satan was on his way, and a couple other major things he’d done, combined with the fact that Aziraphale does tend to defer to him to fix things (of course partly bc he likes being taken care of and knows Crowley likes to take care of him), and of course helped actually create the universe and has this high clearance, I think we CAN accept that Crowley is more powerful than Aziraphale to a fair degree. But, I do agree heartily that we’re meant to know that the two of them together are much more powerful especially due to their love.