@@liblib620I can just imagine it going somewhat like Crawley: FUCK YOU GOD God: DAMN YOU CRAWLEY *Crawley turning into a demon becoming Crowley*: AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH God: oops mah bad… *welp can’t fix it now
i wonder if Neil watches these video and is like "haha thats pretty accurate" or "haha nice try" or my favourite "haha i dont even know this one imma add that"
He doesn't, he tries to stay away from fan theories so they won't interfere with his creative process, and it could also be a legal gray area if a fan would guess right
I'm pretty sure he doesn't read/watch theories (even though there was a LOT of similarities in season 2 with some common fanfiction plots - great minds think alike?) What I am confident in is that he won't emulate Moffat and his Sherlock season 3 fiasco, where it seems like the consensus among fans is that he had a plan, someone had guessed it all and then he decided to change it to still be the smartest guy in the room and the explanation for Sherlock's fall (no pun intended there, lol 🙃) ended up being a lot of nonsense. Neil doesn't seem to have such an ego so even if he came across someone guessing the entire plot by accident, he would hopefully ignore it. He said that the plot was decided by him and Terry years ago and I believe it is what we will see, for better or worse.
The thing is, if he came across something, he might have to change it to not get in legal troubles. In one post he said, that if someone would send him anything, that that would assure that it would certainly not happen. So fans should stay away from suggesting stuff to writers, because when writers read that and then would use it, it would open the doors to that fan to claim part ownership of that story. Al least that is how I understood Neil's post. Someone with more legal knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong,
I mean Crowley curses god's plan in season one when him and Aziraphale were fighting. "Great pustulant mangled bullocks to the great blasted plan" ring any bells? So I could see Crowley cursing the ineffable plan not realizing what it would result in.
I never noticed the color change before! Always assumed it was just from the light. Excellent catch! I think the theory is spot on and it is my feeling that Aziraphale will discover the recordings of Crowley's trial much like Crowley struck "gold" finding Gabriel's. Seeing Crowley's trauma will finally break that tether to Heaven that Aziraphale has. One thing that swans do when their partner has been taken....they will never look for another partner and will usually wither away. I can see Crowley withering to a point up until Aziraphale is threatened and then "all hell will break loose." Such fun to theorize! And hubby did a good job!
I've often heard how mean swans are. but as a birder I find most birds have quite the temper. and most birds while mating for life often live in hell with a mate they cant stand and have a roving nature.
That’s a brilliant theory, oh now I really hope we’ll see Crowley’s trial or at least his file (I’m not sure every demon did get a separate trial but that’s an interesting question)!
" it is my feeling that Aziraphale will discover the recordings of Crowley's trial much like Crowley struck "gold" finding Gabriel's. Seeing Crowley's trauma will finally break that tether to Heaven that Aziraphale has. " That's what I've been thinking, too. But here's the other bits I've been thinking. 1. I think there's varying levels of memory-wiping going on here, from the start. 2. I'm not sure "who" Crowley was, but upon rewatching the star-nursery scene, I'm fairly certain that Aziraphale was a much higher-ranking angel. This is because he had all the deets on Earth and the time-limit on the universe, he'd "seen the plans", while poor Crowley seemed to not have the faintest idea about any of it - no matter that he seemed to have enough power to bring all those stars into being, AND he's seemed pretty powerful at various points as a demon, including being able to easily open Gabriel's file in heaven. So, the memory-wiping. Crowley seems to not remember quite a few angels and demons and happenings, even though he was supposedly there, working closely with them. Now, he could be lying, but to me, it seems like the things he doesn't remember, he genuinely doesn't remember. But he remembers Aziraphale. Aziraphale, however, once they are on earth *behaves* like he's a lesser-ranking angel, and he's always behaved like he's in awe of Crowley. Here's what I think may have happened. Aziraphale tries to warn angel!Crowley that the whole "suggestion box" idea is probably not a great idea. He seems to know what might happen, while Crowley still has hope that his opinions will be listened to. (Another clue that he's probably not as high up as he'd like to present as.) So, Crowley being who he is, that lovable, mouthy, brilliant-and-overflowing-with-ideas darling that we all know, thinks that *surely* he can just pass on his ideas, and tell God that She's not doing it right. However, in this exchange (I have more ideas, but hold that thought), he's asked how he found out about Earth and the time-limit, etc, and he mentions Aziraphale. So now Zira's in the shit, too. I think they *both* got reprimanded, and demoted, one farther than the other, of course. And, I think that selective memories about the entire proceedings were deleted/repressed, for each of them. I think more of Crowley's memories are gone, and I think that he probably suppressed at least some of them himself, out of trauma. But I think that he did something in the 'trial' to try to "save" Aziraphale, and to a degree, it worked. (Perhaps they were both going to get a similar, but still angelic punishment, and maybe Crowley volunteered to be punished further, if Aziraphale were punished less.) So. Crowley's been saving his angel from the start. Only, Aziraphale doesn't really know/remember that bit. He probably remembers *Crowley's* bit of punishment, or some of it, altered or not - but not his own part in it. Which would explain why in their early meetings, Aziraphale is still so upset/wary of Crowley, as a *demon*. And Crowley remembers saving Aziraphale, and enough of his trauma to know that he doesn't want to ever let on to Aziraphale how bad it really was - but not a lot of other details. (Including his own name, I think.) Basically, Crowley wants Aziraphale to "unchoose" Heaven on his own, because he's come to understand that they're not the good guys, and they're not worth it - without 'tipping the table' and telling/reminding him what actually happened, which would absolutely do the trick, but would seem like Aziraphale was being pushed away from heaven by Crowley, or an outside force in general, instead of coming purely from within. (I think Crowley might be misjudging this a bit, but probably isn't entirely wrong about what his angel's reaction might be. Because Aziraphale doesn't *remember*. He would claim that Crowley was overstating it, or was just using his demonic powers to drive a wedge between an angel and heaven.) And also, I think that Crowley just really, really loves Aziraphale's innocence, and doesn't want to be the one responsible for destroying it. Which the whole sordid tale would. The last thing Crowley wants to do is hurt Aziraphale. So, yes. I think that in heaven, Aziraphale is going to find the documents relating to Crowley's trial/fall/etc. I think he's going to see what Heaven did to him, but also to them, because he's going to see what was in store for him as well, and more importantly, what Crowley did, and sacrificed, to save him. End of the main theory. But, back to the 'hold that thought', above. So. We know that the Metatron is essentially a floating head, just like Oz The Great And Powerful. And we know that Oz *was* a floating head, because it was impressive, but also because supplicants will then 'talk to the head', and ignore 'the man behind the curtain'. We are told that the Metatron is 'God's voice', he 'speaks for God', and you're supposed to talk to him, not directly to her. Also - God seems to have been oddly 'absent' through most of this season. Is she on a beach somewhere, slurping down a margarita? Who knows. Anyway. Oz kept up the charade, because it kept the Emerald City and the rest of Oz functioning, and kept power flowing towards himself, where the truth (that it was just a small-time charlatan behind the curtain, pulling levers as fast as he could) would have sent everything crumbling down. I think the Metatron IS "Oz". God may once have existed, but now, she's either dead, or on vacation, or simply uninterested in being in charge. She's gone. But the Metatron has effectively taken her place. He's the one pulling the levers, and making the decisions, but avoiding taking shit for those decisions personally, because, he's just a 'mouthpiece', after all. And nobody can question God. So where I'm going with this is - if Crowley went to find a 'suggestion box', those suggestions ended up buck-stopping at the Metatron, unbeknownst to anyone else. The Metatron took crazy-offense (because it was actually HIS ideas that Crowley was questioning) - but of course delivered the 'wrath' as if it was from God herself. And pulled all the right levers to exact consequences. (Oh - and just like Oz was able to rig his setup to alter his voice, I would suppose the Metatron could do the same.) Anyway - for me, that could explain why, in the Bookshop, the Metatron was shooting such incredible daggers at Crowley, AND why he is DETERMINED to not only separate Crowley and Aziraphale, but I'd bet that his real aim is to eliminate Crowley permanently. Because Crowley tugged at the curtain once, and he could do it again. If Aziraphale (Rafael?) doesn't know this yet, I think he will. Talk about having the scales removed from your eyes. And then he will Take Measures. Anyway. I'm sure there's a million holes to poke in that - so many details that you've all seen, and I've overlooked, or just gotten wrong, or whatever. That's fine and great, actually - this is a bit of fun, and maybe if I'm lucky, there's something useful to be sifted out of what is probably otherwise a load of chaff.
@@flippetskater This sounds so interesting! I don’t think I necessarily believe the theory to be true, potentially, but please write that fanfiction or whatever because this is such an interesting direction to take this. Especially the theory that Aziraphale could’ve had a pretty high position originally but was demoted and now, after Armageddon was stopped and Gabriel fled, the Metatron wants Aziraphale to not only be Archangel, he could potentially want Aziraphale to be Archangel *again*, because maybe everything went to shit after he left but maybe the Metatron realised that you can’t just take Crowley out of the equation because as great as he may be, Aziraphale is too unbalanced to function properly without Crowley (hihi, unbalanced, get it? get it?). So if you’re gonna write that into a fanfiction, please let me know, I’d read that!
Love this. Also explains why Aziraphale hasn't fallen despite how bad an angel he is, he doesn't question God's authority altogether. And there's another clue in the Job minisode. Job: "God has forsaken me and delivered me to demons." Crowley: "oh you must be furious." Job "I burn with fury". Crowley: "of course you do. After all your devotion to God." 👈 Another case of Crowley projecting. Also at the bandstand, when Crowley curses out the great plan and Aziraphale says "may you be forgiven" THAT'S when Crowley says "I'll never be forgiven." Which is a different reaction to how Crowley rejects Aziraphale calling him nice or kind.
Not nessicarily Crowley projecting. He is lierally there to get Job to turn against god. Getting Job to curse God would have won Satan the bet. I hear he had a permit and everything.
My theory is that the metatron was behind Crowley’s and possibly the other demons fall. He does seem to hate Crowley for asking questions. And maybe there’s more like Crowley insulting him to his face. I’m not sure if God is behind it because so, far she seems like a neutral observer that gives her angels lots of tests to make them not only question things but, let them do their own thing. For example how Aziraphale and Crowley actually did what she wanted by stopping Armageddon. Crowley also observed why God would put the fruit if forbidden knowledge in the garden. On the other hand the Metatron would be like the type of religious figure that claims to speak for God but, is actually doing their own agenda. But its just a theory and I loved that reference 😂 On another note another inspiration that you left out was the omen. It is also about the anti- Christ and being raised by an American ambassador. The difference is that Damien is evil because he’s the son of the devil. Adam seems more human because he was raised by humans. As Crowley pointed out just because he’s dad is evil doesn’t mean the anti- Christ would be.
Yes! I like your take on the metatron and their function and agenda! As a side note it reminds me of my first job where the owner was a super nice guy, but not really involved, and the general manager was an absolute angry creep who reported selectively to the owner and treated the staff like crap (especially the very young women).
Excellent explanation here. I have to say this was my theory from the first. The Metatron, is doing his own thing along with all the other archangels in tow, gathering power for themselves. I believe God is letting things play out and giving him enough rope to hang himself. It seems to me that this might be the true test, or at least part of it. Crowley and Aziraphale both did "wrong" things but in the end they were right because they were good. God never stepped in to punish them personally. There's a line from the film "The Rainmaker" were a father says to his elder son who is always correcting his younger brother about being wrong: "You're so full of what's right and wrong that you can't see what's good." Ultimately, my idea is that God's plan is to have everyone learn how to make their own decisions about what is right/wrong good/bad without threat of authority or following anyone else's lead by consulting their own conscience. Both Aziraphale and Crowley are going to have to do this in Season 3 because they will be on their own. Beautiful video as always and new into is super! Thank you for the extension on the True Talent. never hurts to have a few extra days.
@@JoRiver11 Had several similar experiences, so I cringe when I see Aziraphale now having to face his new position alone without Crowley's support. But I also think that's extremely necessary for Azi's evolution.
@@andreavictoriaparadiso47 I loved reading your response and I agree that God’s plan is for the angels and demons to make their own decision. I do wonder how much of an alliance the other archangels and the Metatron have. From little that I have observed i think the Metatron is doing is own thing separate from the archangels. When we first saw season 2 Michael and Uriel were fighting for Gabriel’s former position. And seeing episode 6 I think the Metatron didn’t even bother making someone else supreme archangel. Did he at that point planned to give the role to Aziraphale and just waited for the opportunity? The other archangels were the ones that wanted to hunt down Gabriel meanwhile the Metatron didn’t care at all. At the end of season 2 the other archangels didn’t even recognize the Metatron in person. Expect for i think Saraqael. The Metatron sent them away saying he would punish them. I wonder maybe the other archangels don’t want power and genuinely want to carry out God’s word without questioning anything. It reminds me a lot of religious people and their beliefs. My mom knew someone that had a lot of kids because her religion didn’t allow birth control. I don’t think Aziraphale and Crowley would be on their own. If season 1 is any indication I think they will have lots of help. Because Good Omens theme is those two need to fight with humans to accomplish their goals. I even think that Muriel might join in as I think running Aziraphale’s bookshop would open their minds. I also hope Gabriel and Beelzebub could help them but, I would understand if they don’t come back.
I was honored to be part of the analysis/theory fandom for Harry Potter before all the books were released. It truly was a "magical" time. And it really can't be repeated now that they are all out. Same for Good Omens. This is a great time to be a fan. Yes, you can enjoy it after all has been released and some questions will go unanswered but there is nothing like being part of the "we have no idea what's happening" timeframe.
Lol, I remember that too - I was the 'Snape's not a bad guy, that's too easy' person all the way through. My friends would question my faith after every book, and I stood firm every time. And I was right! At least mostly - Snape was classically human, and a traumatized one at that!
I absolutely agree! Haven’t noticed the change of Crowley’s wings until now, but I have had this exact theory for some time now. The key moment in my opinion is when Crowley stops Sitis from cursing God - it sounds like he is talking from his own experience. Also his reaction to seeing Job “being able to ask the questions” can tell us a lot I think.
Before I finish the video: Swans! I remember looking up what animals Gabriel and the other archangels in the Bible related to Guess what the Internet said? Swans. Side note when I think of swans and GO, I think of that scene in St James Park where they meet and Crowley asks for the Holy Water.
Or in S1x01 where God talks about the ducks liking the bread (that they shouldn't eat), and we see the large black swan. Will we see a Black Swan Event in S3?
I think your theory makes so much sense. I didn’t register the wing change as anything other than lighting. My running theory is that his questions led other angels to doubt and to question and to fall. I’ve even wondered if Crowley’s questions might have been what started Lucifer on his path to falling. He never meant for things to go so far. He never meant for anyone to resort to violence. He just wanted a suggestion box. That would connect with his title as the original tempter (he tempted angels into the rebellion) and it would explain why Metatron has such animosity towards him. It also doesn’t really conflict with your theory at all. I’m enjoying all of this so much!
Oh, and it would also explain Crowley as an unreliable narrator. He actually feels guilt for his role in things and doesn’t want to address it head on, because he believes he’s the reason for so much suffering. So he deflects even when he’s thinking about the fall all alone.
Alright, I have a weird theory here: If we were to go with the 'Crowley is Azazel' theory, he technically wouldn't have fallen during the war. He would have technically fallen afterward. In the story of Azazel, for some odd reason, after Lucifer and the rest of the rebelling angels fell, Azazel and a few others were actually allowed to stay in heaven. Whether or not they were demoted or just demon's allowed to remain in heaven is kind of confusing to me, but the fact remains that Azazel got to chill in heaven after the war. Where Azazel fell was when Metatron came into being. Metatron was once human, Enoch, who was taken up from earth to join heaven, essentially taking Lucifer's previous position. Azazel and two other 'technically' fallen angels disapproved of this. They called it out, and Metatron actually was the one to cast them out. After the fact, Azazel was chained to some rocks by Raphael. ( I like to think of this as Aziraphale being the metaphorical chain holding Crowley to earth. He never leaves because Aziraphale never agrees to flee with him. Even after he thinks Aziraphale is dead, he still stays due to his feelings for Aziraphale.) So, in conclusion, this would make for a slower fall, the saunter vaguely downwards. It would also make sense as to why Metatron hates Crowley, and why he claims Crowley kept asking foolish questions. Not just one, but multiple times. "All I ever did was ask questions" He sounds heartbroken during that exclamation, because if he was cast out by Metatron for asking a question the confusion and upset would really make sense.
Another theory I have that coincides with the previous one, Just like Metatron is the current spokesperson for God, Lucifer probably was back in the day too. What if Crowley poured his heart out to Lucifer, and Lucifer was then inspired to do something about it? Like the final straw sort of ordeal, most likely Lucifer was already fed up with stuff, and then Crowley is just like "Hey all my work is going to be destroyed, can you put in a word to God for me?" Only for Lucifer to run with more ammo to rebel with. It could have been a complete accident, no intention to start a fight, and Crowley could have accidentally been the catalyst actually putting more of a reason into starting a war. Roped up in the middle, not really sure what to do or what side to choose.
Interesting theory concerning Azazel! But the Metatron has never been human. Neil did answer this point blank a while back. I will find the post and share it in my next video, as I think most people aren't aware of it. Edited to add Neil's Tumblr answer. neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/728289477045469184/hi-neil-gaiman-i-would-like-to-know-if-good-omens
@Sendarya Damnit! I just watched it, and commented on there. I felt I was really onto something! 😂 Well, do we even know if Crowley actually does have a different name? Has that been confirmed?
@@pikaboubouHe must have another name. First of all, he changes his name at least twice: clearly couldn't have been called Crawly in Heaven, then changes it to Crowley. Then maybe once more, though a little debatable - centuries later Aziraphale finds out he goes by Anthony J. Crowley - why would he, of all beings, not be aware of his used name while regular people are? Then again, it might just be that Crowley never specifically told him his full name, so that's why at least twice. And then. The J. What does that stand for? He not only has it in his full name (again, quite clearly lies about it being "just a J, really"). But most importantly when he signs the pact in the cemetery, with Hastur and Ligur, he signs as J and the paper accepts it as his name.
@@pikaboubou I do wonder if that was Neil being sneaky again, though! After all, Adam changed reality so that Satan was “never” his father; maybe there are other entities that can rewrite the past that way too!
A line Crowley says in the last episode of season 1 was interesting,,and may have some meaning on this topic....When Satan starts to arrive at Tadfield, Crowley crumples to the ground as if in pain. At one point while cringing on the ground he gasps " this isn't about Armageddon, this is personal!" I took it to mean he and Satan had had a falling out as well.
Hmmm. I read that scene where Crowley hears satan rising from hell, is that he’s coming in anger at Adam, not anger at Crowley. That it’s “personal” against Adam as his rebellious son.
It seems like Satan was mad that Adam wasnt doing what he should, not that his defiance was staving off the apocalypse. He considered having his son obedient and just like him to be fundamentally worse than the derailing of his plans for the end of the world.
Tbh this is the most logical conclusion I can think of regarding Crowley's fall. I'm sure "I only ever asked questions," is inaccurate/incomplete, but we know that Crowley is fundamentally decent, and I expect any actions he took were only out of a desire for freedom. In the end, he just swapped out one tyrant to serve for another, which is honestly pretty tragic. I think the one thing you pointed out is interesting though --- that if we assume cursing and rejecting God is what it would take to properly fall --- Aziraphale doesn't actually seem to know that, or at least, he's fuzzy on the specifics. Crowley, on the other hand, apparently does know much more intimately. If Crowley hasn't talked to him about this (obviously that's nothing new, as Crowley omits a lot), I wonder if in his own way, Crowley believes he's protecting Aziraphale from becoming like him. Because while Crowley has actively sought to open Aziraphale's eyes in a number of ways, there is a part of him that truly treasures Aziraphale's innocence, and he knows he wouldn't do well among demons. Personally I'm just really interested to see what the straw that breaks the camel's back is going to be for Aziraphale. His loyalty to God has remained intact all these years in spite of everything, but I'm not sure that's going to last. And what's that going to mean for him?
I think it's going to be very, very hard to watch, whatever Aziraphale goes through. Good observations! Crowley does hide so much to protect his angel. That might backfire a bit, now.
@@Sendarya It's so bizarre how the two of them both omit or outright lie about things that you'd think would be incredibly important or useful for the other to know. Their relationship is very unique in that they kind of live in their own world with a language they've developed that only they understand. But instead of using that language ALONGSIDE normal communication, they use it to replace it. I know they'll be occupied with world-ending stakes once again in season 3, but man, I hope we get the satisfaction of seeing them talk. For real --- without burying the things they truly want to say.
I think maybe Aziraphale will be able to stay loyal to God once he separates Her possible intent from Heaven, the Metatron, and his own identity. Many things are actually being done by Metatron, the archangels and because of bureaucracy/politics in Heaven, not because they are from God.
That really got me thinking!! I think that another blasphemy could be that he considered the nebulae as his creations, when they were supposed to be God's
Hi big fan here! :D I know its prolly very unrelated but this thought has been kinda keeping me up at night. SO i never see anyone talk about aziraphales response in one of the first scenes with gabriel/jim. Jim/ Gabriel asks Aziraphale if he ever had the feeling that everything would be better if was just near one particular person and at first aziraphale is nodding slightly but then he realises and immediately denies it and even starts to panic a lillte. i think it was obvious that he was thinking about crowley but yet again he had to denie it because he wasn’t sure if Jim/Gabriel was still working for heaven. It is such a great scene and helps with analysing the ending from aziraphales perspective because it shows he wants to be with crowley so bad but is still afraid about heaven knowing about his relationship with crowley.
Downplaying and justifying our mistakes is so typically human. I did have the same reaction to Job’s wife cursing god and so glad Crowley made his appearance at that moment. It was a good “Clue” about his fall. I often think when reading reviews that people do often make it more complicated than it is. And since demons (at least in the GO universe) do know the differences between good and evil, I do think that makes Crowley much more human than Azirafale. Although he’s learned much from Crowley, he’s not there yet. And I do agree he may now learn and believe, during the time he is in heaven during season three, the differences between good and evil and the legitimacy of that knowledge. Can’t make the choice to be good if you don’t understand the opposite! Once again, thanks for doing all the research for those of us who are too lazy to do it ourselves. 😏
I think your theory is spot-on. One thing we don't talk about enough that I just recently saw on Tumblr is how much the fire and the book shop would have re traumatized Crowley reminding him of the fall. Especially when there are like flaming pieces of paper falling from the second story. He's looking up to while he's calling for Aziraphale, and then he goes to the bar to drink about aziraphale being gone. The trauma of the Fall is fresh in his mind. Maybe it's not important for this theory, but it's just sad.
Theres a really good fanfic that explores this. Its quite popular so you mightve heard of it or read it already but if not, its called Demonology and the Tri-phasic Model Of Trauma.
I think its probable that Lucifer preyed on Crowleys discontent to incite him into some kind of direct action that Crowley might not otherwise have taken on his own. I imagine Crowley probably made attempts to speak with god directly (just as azi did) but was blocked by the metatron, who is probably the greater architect of crowleys fall than god ever was. Crowleys frustration, coupled with Lucifers coercion probably led him to cross the line.
If mere questioning of God's plan really was instrumental in causing angels to turn into demons, it's not that hard to imagine Lucifer having pretty good reasons to question the plan, especially as we see Armageddon portrayed as more of a pay-per-view event put on jointly by Heaven and Hell for reasons that are impossible to guess (other than entertainment) and the inhabitants on Earth forced to suffer as a result. Perhaps if Lucifer was God's chief lieutenant, that was HIS part of the job and he objected on principle and ended up taking a lot of angels with him. Although if that were the case, we don't see that in the series (but we might in the Lucifer series). We humans tend to make Gods in our image, where real gods would probably not be comprehensible to us (nor would their plans).
I feel like Crowley, despite being fallen, still loves God. He wants God to be fair and kind. And being cast out appears to have hurt him far more than the other demons. The other demons are just hateful or bitter. Crowley is angry at Heaven and God, but is still in awe of God and wants God's love. He prays to and yells at God in Season One and looks upward noticeably a number of times in Season Two. The other demons seem to be totally loyal to Hell, and don’t appear to think of God except as a distant adversary of Hell. That is how I see it.
The funny thing is that by still loving God he technically hadn’t blasphemed the Holy Spirit in biblical canon. When that happens the Holy Spirit leaves them since they already had an active and permanent hatred of God, which is why the Pharisees or the Pharoah did this sin, but Paul after killing Christians or Peter rejecting Jesus 3 times didn’t lead them into this sin.
I really like your theory and I wanted to add something I found during one of my GO rewatch. In season 2, when Crowley tries to speak with Jim about his memory in episode 5, Jim says that he feels like an empty house. First, Crowley was a bit surprised, he said like "A house?!?" and when Jim explained a little bit more about his feelings, Crowley added, "I know. Looking at where the furniture isn't". And I felt like he knew exactly what Jim was talking about. Just like he had been through the same thing. And when Jim says "It hurts to remember," he says " I know, do it anyway". Like he knew he could do it because Crowley remembered a few things. So, maybe they erased Crowley's memory when he fell and he tried to remember but like gave up at some point because it was too hurtful. This can explain why he doesn't remember Fufur during the Great War or Saraquiel while they worked together. Or maybe I'm just going mad.
That is a fairly popular theory! There are so many references to memery being messed with, it's not just one or two things. It's constantly. Could it be that Crowley had his memory tampered with? Possibly. If so he seems aware of it. It could be so many things. It's one of the biggest mysteries of season 2, that we all hope to see addressed in season 3. 😉
I really love all your analyses and theories, thank you! I just want to add one thing to the above: remember how God spoke to Job, and Crowley said 'but to be able just to ask the questions!', and it makes me think that before the Fall he went to God for answers and was refused (by Metatron?) to even ask - and that was a final straw for him. Maybe he cursed God, or just became really angry and then Lucifer and the guys turned up.
Glad to see this, I'd seen Neil's Tumblr answer about Crowley's wing turning grey, and wasn't happy because I wondered what it meant. But this is cool. And I think you're right, he lost faith in, and possibly cursed God and the Ineffable plan. I also think this is shown up when Crowley yells in the bandstand about the plan. Another Archangel Crowley probably knew well, but got on better with, was Saraqael, who said they had worked together on the design of the nebula. It will indeed be extremely cool and exciting to see which, if any, fan theories and ideas turn out to be correct, or close to correct, in what will happen in season 3 and what else we might find out about!!!! I think it'll be really jam packed😊
Maybe Crowley cursed the Metatron with the lovely “Great pustulant mangled bollocks” curse (a little foreshadowing?), or his “TEN!” fury with lightening bolts. He does have a bit of a temper. Whatever he said, I’m sure it was a good one!
You’ve done it again, dear Sendarya, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here with why Crowley fell. (Should we be A BIT concerned about Aziraphale’s pseudonym ‘A Z Fell’???) Crowley wants to “go off together” with Azi, eschewing both Heaven and Hell, while Aziraphale never wavers in his faith in God and the Ineffable Plan, just what his role may be in it. Love the new opening and LOVED the “that’s just a theory, a Good Omens theory!” MatPat homage-that you have resisted doing that for this long shows admirable restraint!
There is a white and black swan moving towards each other to form a heart in the scene where crowley asks aziraphale for holy water. This could be a Clue to your theory :) And even as they meet Crowley says: "We have a lot in common you and me" !!!
And also the bit with Crowley’s plants might give away some more clues as to why Crowley fell. If he’s recreating some past experience with God or Metatron or some higher authority, then it shows he was threatened with the fall even before it happened. He didn’t mean to fall? To afford him some agency, I think he did. For what reason, with it being Crowley, I’d wager he thought he could make a difference away from heaven’s close authority. And I’d guess that’s why Metatron is threatened by him, because he shows again and again that he has the will to rebel against the morals or both heaven and hell in order to preserve his own idea of morality and protect what he loves. “Just to be able to ask the question” could mean he was punished by God for questioning her authority in general or it could mean he was barred completely from asking his questions (thinking of how aziraphale could only interface with Metatron). Gives him and Metatron even more of a context as to why Crowley got That Look from Metatron.
I just want to tell you that these videos are brilliant! They are so well done, and so well researched, it makes me happy (and a bit jealous). More people (including my students) need to do work like this. Thank you!
@@Sendarya I teach college psychology online. My students are of the firm opinion that their opinion is as good as tested facts, and have a horrible time supporting what they say with evidence. You do that absolutely beautifully, and you are careful to say it's all your own opinion/hypotheses. I'd give you an A!
Or speak. Not pointing fingers at anyone specific, Crowley 👀 Then again, if you do fall and hit your head it could be kinda difficult to talk and write properly 😂
Needs stated that because angels and demons don't think for themselves (compared to bees at one point) that neither of them seem too terribly bright. Both Crowley and Aziraphale struggle because unlike their counterparts they have been on earth long enough to learn, and were perhaps a bit too clever/smart to be where they were. They both ask questions constantly. The fact Aziraphale has to say things in support and defending heaven constantly out loud as though to talk himself into it because internally he's struggling with it. "How can you be so clever and yet so stupid".
A little while ago I posted on someone else's video that Crow fell because he lost his faith in God. The questions aren't an issue, questioning to the point of not believing that God knows what they are doing? Aziraphale based his fear of being cast down on the assumption that Crowley's fall was from asking questions. The archangels don't question at all, and are trying to force something to the point that they practically seem evil, but they believe they are doing God's will. By saving Job's children, and goats, Crowley assumes that God doesn't know what they are doing and goes against that assumed will. Whereas Aziraphale believes in God's will, he has just been brainwashed by the archangels to believe that not following through with the KNOWN plan goes against God. From the first season and on, Crowley has little moments that could restore his faith. For example, when realizing that Gabriel doesn't know the ineffable plan, he could have connected the dots there that he's been doing exactly what God has wanted all along. Even when we see him talking up in his apartment, he doesn't ask the right questions and come to the conclusion that everything is going to be alright. Instead, he wallows in the misery of it all and is still skeptical of God's will.
THANK YOU for coming up with a theory that makes sense about Crowley's fall. Having been brought up in a traditional Roman Catholic and having spent many years in ministry, I am so well-versed in the theology surrounding angels and demons that I couldn't figure out what distinction Neil was making between the disobedience of the angels on various occasions and anything that could get someone irrevocably damned. Aziraphale's lie about Job's children seemed to quality as adequate cause for damnation--at least when spoken by an angel--because angels are expected to maintain a higher level of holiness than are humans. Again, according to traditional Christian theology--humans are worth the sacrifice of Jesus Christ's human life to enable forgiveness of human sin, but demons could never be forgiven. They didn't deserve it because their free will wasn't crippled by Adam and Eve's "Original Sin." Obviously, Neil couldn't write his characters according to that logic--but the idea that humans and angels could both commit the unforgiveable sin puts both "races" on a level playing field in terms of our ability to sympathize with them and resolves multiple questions I've had about the show. I didn't think it was possible, but you've made me even more excited/curious about the coming Season 3.
Yeah!! I think you're in the right path there! That's honestly the only reasonable thing I can think of too, although I'm quite sure that God herself had nothing to do with casting the Fallen Angels down.. I think the idea came from the Metatron and he was the one who judged and punished all the angels down to this brand new thing called Hell, but could be wrong tho! Love your videos!
Thank you Sendarya. As always, your video got me thinking: Does Crowley himself really know, why he fell? Does anybody know exactly? It is not like there was a trial. There was no verdict. At least, we do not hear of one. So it is a bit messy to find out, why he (and the others) fell. What we know: In the GO lore there was a rebellion by a fraction of angels and than a war, between the rebels and the rest of the angels. The conformists won and the rebells were "cast out" of heaven. I think the rebellion may have broken out over the humans place in creation and Gods plan: There is the idea of jealousy of the angels, as a reason for the fall, in judeo-christian theology: Some of the angels - very potent beings, created before creation, made of light, where not content to step back for "imperfect" human beings, made from clay, chosen by God to be the most important thing, the beings whom God gives her love to. Beings the angels were supposed to serve. This idea is touched on in the show: Crowley ist irritated, when he is told, the stars and nebulas are just being wallpaper for the humans on far away earth... In my head, this may be the main conflict between God and the rebelling angels: They did not like the part of the ineffable Plan, where humans are created. Why create imperfect beings? Why not make a paradise for angels? Or give the humans to the angels as toys, or slaves... - Why should angels serve the humans, work to get the humans to do good? Guard the humans? They are better than humans. I think this would be an interesting motivation for the rebellion: Crowley might have been against the "great plan" to create humans and give them free will. - He ends up to be the snake in the garden to test Adam and Eve and see them fail. - This may have been his first real encounter with humans. Is this the moment his perception of humans changes him. He begins to pity them. And there is Aziraphale to challenge him - already caring about the humans - giving his flaming sword away. Later he sees what humans can do to each other. He witnesses a lot of atrocities humans perpetrated. (Worst than what he is able to think of.) But living among humans shows him their compassion, capacity for love and friendship and good too. He encounters human children and their innocence. He is angry about the flood. He realises that it is not all black and white, but grey. He observes, he learns to care for human life very early on. And the questions get more and more: What is Gods plan with these humans? And this is what sets Crowley and Aziraphale apart: As soon as Adam and Eve are created, they are interested in the humans, care for them, befriend them, save them. All other angels and demons despise human beings. They cannot wait for the time of the humans to end, to see their world and time gone. The only difference is: Hell openly tries to make humans suffer. Heaven pretends to bless and influence the humans to be good, as that is their purpose in Gods ineffable plan, but they do not really respect them, the certainly do not care for them. They cannot wait until the humans will be gone again. I think it is interesting to explore - what does the creation of humankind change for angels? What is Gods plan for angels and humans? Are the rebells right, in despising the humans and rejecting Gods plan over it? Crowley thinks there is going to be a war in the end "all of us - against all of them" - What about that? What does it mean? This is not really a theory, these are my random thoughts. I agree with a lot of points and observations you make in your theory. The main thing I would like to add: Humanity may have played a role in the conflict between God, the angels and the demons, right from the start - even before they were created. Because humanity and its fate is at the center of the great "blasted" plan.
I just want to suggest that you read (or reread) the book. Because after the "all of us against all of them" Crowley goes on about the great plan and what it means. It certainly feels like he is on to something there. And then he just forgets about it when a stranger interferes. (My interpretation is that it is God. Could also be Death, but I think that is unlikely). This means we actually have a brain wipe in the book! I know the series differs from the book in some aspects, and that seasons 2 and 3 go well beyond the events of the book. But after rereading it I came to the conclusion that it might be worth a closer look. After all the series is based on ideas Neil and Terry had for a second novel and well before the series was produced. There are references to the book even in season 2. Most of them are not important for the story and probably don't have a deeper meaning, either; they are just there for the fans spot (like in Episode 2 the man in the pun reads a newspaper with an article about Milton Keynes, which was mentioned in the book as a joke). I was surprised, however, when I found the beehive analogy that Crowley uses in epispde 6 was already in the book! If I ever have too much time I might go through the book, line by line, and mark everything not found in the series. Then I would have to decide if it was only left out or changed to make it work on screen or other obvious reasons. Anything left could be a potential clue (I was tempted to use a capital letter here :D) for season 3. Especially towards the end of the book I noticed some differences. And some of the take away messages from the book haven't made it into the series (yet?), like 'the world might be a better place if people learned responsibility were allowed to sort everything out without Heaven and Hell messing with them', and ' the trouble caused by people/entities only doing their jobs' (which kind of is a theme in the series with all the 'bad' things the archangels do, but there never was the conclusion that blindly following orders, or what they think where their orders, is actually wrong). And maybe most importantly: what if it all actually was part of the ineffable plan, including the fall and everything? I think I got carried away a little with this answer. My mind recently started coming up with some ideas and theories of its own and I cannot stop it. Thank you @Sendarya for doing all the research and creating these amazing videos!
@@FranziskaS6364 "I think I got carried away ... My mind recently startet coming up with some ideas and theories of its own and I cannot stop it." - Yes, you are infected with Good Omens. It happend to all of us. Thanks for your insides. I will go and read the book - again.
“Exactly!” Angels were created for the purpose of worshipping the Almighty and carrying out Their will whether it was to drown all the locals or torment a righteous believer like Job. Aziraphale fully understands the dynamic, the politics of what he owes his very existence to. Angelic Crowley, a (maybe the?) prideful Prince of Heaven, didn’t have the same opinion. (See, the art JoaMaj showed during the Pride and Prejudice watch party comparing the Crowley/Darcy proposal scenes lives in my head.) Glad to know NG confirmed the color change.
I have to tell you, just when I think there couldn't possibly be anything more new to say about Good Omens and its world/characters, a new video from you comes out with intelligent, nuanced, detailed, and brilliant arguments and I'm ridiculously impressed.
I just really want to know what angelic sphere Crowley was in. Almost certainly higher than the archangels. I want to say a Throne (resides over the cosmos/material starting to take form). I feel like I NEED to know his entire history, even more than Aziraphale.
Actually Neil answered this, I follow his tumbler. Archangels with the capital A such as Michael and Gabriel are the highest in the hierarchy. Gabriel was supreme archangel, the only ones above him is God and probably the metatron as he did remove him from his position. I headcanon that Crowley was Raphael, as that is the only major archangel missing. But if you don’t like that theory he could be a throne, which would be just behind the Archangels.
@@moondivine2288 Of course Neil beat me to it! I'm still super curious what the whole story is though. He's clearly got high access in heaven that they forgot (?) to revoke. Hnngghh I dislike not knowing everything about everything. My ongoing lack of selective omnipotence vexes me. 🤣
@@CelticShrew I’m with you that I dislike not knowing everything. All I can do is analyze everything I see in good omens, I could be right or wrong but it is nice seeing what other people have noticed. I agree that Crowley did have a high position in heaven. Not only because he could access the files but, when Gabriel said that he was the highest archangel in the room the camera focuses on Crowley. I don’t know if it’s a hint but, it does make me wonder. I can’t wait for season 3 to hopefully get the full story.
21:50 I think it’s sad how people take theories as a competition to see who’ll guess right and get annoyed when things don’t go that way. I just love to hear people speculate on topics they love, and seeing people trying to work these plot threads out like puzzles is very interesting. I thought about it yesterday when I was contemplating doing theories of my own but worried I’d have to add a disclaimer saying how I don’t think it’s a given, but it’s just a possibility.
Do it! I'd love to see what you think. No one should have to have disclaimers, none of us knows what's going to happen. Just go have fun doing the guessing.
The great thing about this Fandom, that I have seen, is that we all know that we don't KNOW! There may be some outliers, but generally, we are just excited anticipating the final chapter. So far, Neil and the team channeling Terry's spirit, have done a great job telling this story. Whatever they bring to life in season 3 is going to wrap us in a warm blanket with a cup of hot chocolate on a rainy day 😋 We are going to leave all the theories behind and escape into their world once again. Your theories will just fill the void until then, so do it!
@@compubijou Agree! And Neil and the team are certainly fomenting this anticipation and "not knowing" thing which I think is truly a wonderful opportunity for the fandom. Who knows where this will lead us and what will happen after Season 3. Here's to sharing that cup of cocoa with you! Cheers!💖💖💖
I agree that Crowley is a deeply traumatised being, as we can see by his reaction at Gabriel's appearence in the bookshop, the one place where he feels safe (safe enough to remove his glasses). And I think that is why he's being very gentle and cautious in the way he tries to "wake" Aziraphale to the truth of the world. He doesn't want him to reject God and fall, he just wants him to think by himself and get rid of his "black/white" mentality.
Tbh. Felt this was blatantly addressed. Just not directly. He asked god why. Even marveled at Jobe for *Even being able to ask the questions!* and he became nervous when his wife said shed curse god. He also...directly said he was going to have a talk with upper management about the plan for the universe to end in a few thousand years. He also directly said *in the old days, it only took asking questions, to be a demon.* 😅 I do love the video. Thankyou for your work.
You're right, there is some suggestion that the rules have changed, but we also know Crowley is an unreliable narrator about his own fall. I sincerely hope we get an answer to this question in s3!
Oh. My. GAWD! The theory you dropped around 21 mins *clutches heart* And I love that you addressed this very special time of anticipation of the next season. Once S3 drops there won’t be another! We truly are blessed to live in a time where we get to see books such as the likes of Lord of The Rings, Harry Potter, and Good Omens all be made into watchable films. 😍
My favourite rendition of Lucifer has always been one that mirrors real-life religious extremism. Basically he hated sin SO MUCH, he couldn't agree with God's willingness to forgive it, and couldn't understand why God seemed to love mortals over angels. Lucifer made it his mission to PROVE mortals were unworthy of God's love. Hence why he encourages sin yet punishes sinners.
Amazing video as always! And what interesting insights into Crowley's fall. I personally theorize that there is some sort of foul play concerning the fall. The Metatron seems to have some sort of personal issue with Crowley, that Crowley doesn't seem to recognize. This is both apparent in their brief interaction and how Metatron speaks about Crowley to Aziraphale in s2e6. The Metatron is furthermore very caught up in maintaining the status quo, and not making it seem like Heaven has an institutional problem (Which it does, angels keep rebelling). It is also established that Crowley has forgotten some of the people he knew before the fall, this could be chalked up to his pride, but he also relates to Gabriels description of missing memories. Loss of memories is a big theme in s2. The Metatron expects Crowley to remember him though, and to be fair all the others did too, but the Metatron is testing just about everyone's allegiances in that scene. I think he was testing Crowley as well. The fact that Crowley is very unreliable about his own fall also gains a new light with the holes in his memory. I do believe Crowley did the unforgivable, whether that is what you theorize here or something else, but I also believe that his questions got him some sort of answer, that he wasn't supposed to get.
just wanted to say that i’ve been super distraught over the ending of season 2, but your point of how this period in between is a gift really changed my perspective and i so appreciate that. ao3 can only heal so much
AO3 is a great resource and comfort! I encourage everyone to make their own fan content. Fic, art, podcasts, tumbr blog, funny memes. I'm really glad I could help shift your perspective. Enjoy the fandom!
I wonder if Neil ever watches these videos.... I also can't help but feel that God has been absent for a reason, and that maybe Crowley fell for a reason - the ineffable plan versus the great plan type of thing. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on that in the show... Great video as always!
Unfortunately Neil never watches or read any fan fiction or theory, as he often comments on thumbr. But also fortunately he doesn’t, to keep his clean mind.
Yes! I do think that the rejection of God would be the ultimate sin in the GO universe. But something else that I had been thinking about is, the memories of the demons, especially Crowley’s memory. We know that he tends to down play his recounts on the his own process of becoming a demon, but could this be a memory issue? Because he remembers certain things, but has a hard time remembering others. Maybe something to do with PTSD or did heaven play a hand in it? I’m wondering if heaven had a similar demoting process for the demons as they would have done with Gabriel. This was just a random thought I had
something else to add, if Aziraphale were to go against anything the "higher counsel" they could do the same thing they tried with Gabriel (or worse). The whole idea is to keep them separated, so along as Aziraphale stays in heaven, it doesn't really matter what role he plays. And him missing his memories will help keep him there. AAAAAAAA I feel like I"m thinking to much about thisssss
I am also interested in the issue of memory in GO! My idea is that Heaven tried to handle the rebellious angels by wiping their memories, as was planned for Gabriel, but because the rebellious angels did not consider themselves to be part of Heaven anymore, the memory wipes were only partially successful, and that they were thrown out of Heaven because of that. -- Because if Heaven could just wipe their memories completely, Heaven wouldn't have to throw them out. Although _that_ could mean that if some of the memory wipes were successful so that those formerly rebellious angels stayed in Heaven, then maybe most of the angels rebelled against the management of Heaven, because according to Beelzebub at the end of GO 1, Hell's numbers were equivalent to Heaven's.
i like your approach to this limbo btw s2 & 3, i felt like it was agony but you are actually right, it is the time to analyze and make guesses and have fun with it :)
So I have a theory that Crowley wanted to ask God but was unable to. I think they were intercepted by Metatron much like Aziraphale was. Bc of Crowley's comment about Job having the opportunity to ask. Metatron refused to let them ask them.
Yes! The Metatron particularly dislikes questions (“always asking damn fool questions”) and doesn’t give a clear answer to A’s question about the second coming
I have always seen it as kind of an actual job scenario, but with much higher stakes and much bigger egos. Crowley is like someone who wanted to form a union, so that the worker's voices were heard. When you call for a strike, you can have the super obedient strike breakers who look down on the strikers like they are ruining everything. You have the strikers looking for change. You have Lucifer and the boys who want a regime change, and Crowley kinda gave examples of general discontent that would have been discussed. So if the big guy and an army suddenly goes in while you are striking, and everyone is suddenly following... well, you were on strike, at this point you are fucked if this side doesn't win. It doesn't, and now you are a demon for wanting to see your work matter and and for things to actually make sense, not to mention an amount of fairness to all of it. Because there are a billion levels of angel, everyone is separated, and it is quite bee-like, actually, if God is the queen. Despite humanity also about to exist... Lucifer was a high up angel in the show, so, if you are forced to pick a side and your wings are grey...
You're right. Azirphale is so frightened on Crowley's behalf, even at that very first meeting. And that anxiousness is mirrored in the final scene. I hadn't really thought about the sin of blasphemy. Taking the Lord's name in vain..but that makes a lot of sense, he gets very anxious if Crowley says anything critical. I guess if he went to war in a revolution against God, he's gonna fall.. I think Aziraphale will see Crowley's fall by looking at the file as it were... but he won't risk falling himself?? IDK I just can't imagine him being in Hell..I think he will want to stay in his little bookshop.
One interpretation of blasphemy is taking the lord name in vain, but it isn't the only interpretation. That's one thing that makes it so confusing! lol I don't think anyone else is going to fall, either.
Great video, as always! Have you read Neil Gaiman's Murder Mysteries? That's essentially THE story of the fall, and Neil once called it a dark version of Good Omens. Also, we get some familiar faces there (Saraquael...) So that keeps me wondering how many answers to the fandom's questions are hiding there. Any thoughts?
Great analysis. I think you've convinced me with the reference to Sitis and then Matthew 12:30. I'm looking forward to seeing if S3 will deliver on any of these questions but, if not, it's fun to speculate all the same.
Fantastic video! I always wondered, if there were no demons or hell established prior to the war what made Aziraphale panic so much for Crowley when he mentioned the suggestion box?
I so hope a time comes when Crowley can happily agree with Adam: "...there never was an apple...that wasn't worth the trouble you got into for eating it." i.e. all his apple-eating (questioning) was not just fine, but valuable and appreciated.
Your theory is spot on. For additional evidence, notice what Crowley asks after Aziraphale confesses to lying to thwart the will of God. He asks whether Aziraphale is going to tell anybody: if not, nothing has to change. So clearly, IF Aziraphale did tell, I.e., overtly challenge and reject God’s authority, that’s when things would have to change. That would have been the unforgivable sin (in universe).
As of 9:03, I think Crowley helped start the great war in the beginning of heaven that helped him get casted down to hell. I think he did it in the first place because he saw how corrupt Gabriel and the metatron were, and he thought he could help, like aziraphale did. He thought he could change heaven exactly like what Aziraphale thinks, Which is why he's so sure and why he understands what Aziraphale is thinking "a whole lot better than you do".
@@Sendarya AHH I didn't think you'd see my comment! Thank you 😭😭😭. I love your video and I'm about to go watch a ton more thank you for the content, it helps me make so many connections and get nerdy about it.
It is considdered blasphemy to insult something sacred - so everytime Crowley says to Aziraphale he’s an idiot, he’s blapheming. And Aziraphale forgives him, even if he’s unforgivable
In so many fandoms I enjoyed the hiatus periods between seasons or sequels the most and I'm so glad I actively joined the GO fandom after S2! (I really loved S1 but too many things were happening in my life around that time, I did not participate in this fandom at all.) Thank you for making these thought provoking videos! :3
I always enjoy and learn things from your videos, enriching details I NEVER would have spotted. Thank you! I did spot an error in this one - Don’t ask for whom the bell tolls is from “No Man is an Island,” by John Donne; Hemingway quoted it for the title of his novel.
omg??? absolutely loved this and excited to see more of this-definitely something i’ve been thinking about since “the angel you knew, isn’t me”. also he still calls out for Her (God) with familiarity which is so so sad
Even when abandoned he turn towards her which is interesting since he doesn’t seem to want to go back to her side. He was definitely created to play a certain role, consider chess pieces like referred in the monologue in the beginning of the series?
I am so happy I found this! I sometimes don't notice these!! Thanks! Don't feel bad, Mattpad was really good at these! Yours is still really good, had fun watching it!
There’s a theory floating around that Crowley fell so that he’d be in a position to protect Aziraphale from harm. I’m personally a huge fan of this theory.
Great analysis as always. Theorising on Crowley’s fall is always interesting to me because I believe that someone like Crowley never really belongs in Good Omens’ heaven. Crowley is, IMO, like a Jewish (here I meant it as someone who follows Judaism, please CMIIW) forced into living in Christian heaven. His belief is that god is a peer (as he describes in the beginning, that he “works very closely with upstairs”) and therefore he is expected to argue/challenge god when he thinks god is wrong (giving suggestions to the suggestion box). That is a problem if this god is indeed based on Christian god, in that she expects complete obedience and no questioning, something that is against Crowley’s very nature. While I do agree that cursing god is probably an unforgivable sin, I think that Crowley’s biggest “sin” is that all his “questions” are actually posed as challenges to god. Crowley doesn’t just ask questions e.g. “why are you testing them to destruction?”, he wanted to tell god what to do e.g. “you shouldn’t test them to destruction.”. Anyway, sorry for the long comment. This is just one of the topics that I love thinking about so I can't help but post my own opinion :)
I also thought it was a huge clue when Bildad busted in like that, as if he knew something about it and had some experience dealing with exactly that situation. But he also seemed to have cursed God Before the Beginning when he called God's plan "idiocy," and said, "if he were the one running it all," and as we know, that's a big spiritual nope to entertain such an idea. Crowley may have cursed God again to her face when he did ask whatever questions, too, which we haven't seen (yet). But I also noticed that in S1 when he's at his flat, looking in the big book of Astronomy to figure out a place to go, even just him shouting up to God that he thinks God "shouldn't test humans to destruction," is technically actively rebelling. So, while he's shouting to God that he "only ever asked questions; that's all it took to be a demon in the old days," he's still doing acts of rebellion in the next sentence by saying God shouldn't be doing whatever God is doing and basically making judgements on God's actions.
Even tho it's not necessarily related to the GO universe, it's fun to read about some of the lore that has influenced the way we think about and investigate things like GO. I've been dabbling in Demonology, specifically about fallen angels, (not all demons were angels once, apparently) and one of the things I learned is that there's an unknown/unnamed Surrogate of Satan (demon acting on Satan's behalf?) who appeared as the Serpent to Eve in a text called Genesis B. So that might be worth looking into. And also the fathers of the Nephilim, who apparently were led by Azazel, was a time that a great swathe of Angels fell, so I've been kind of looking into those stories, too. I gotta say, it's a pretty fun hobby. The stories are from the book of Enoch, of course, the book of Giants, and book of Jubilee, where some of the Nephilim became earthbound demons, so they never were Angels altho their fathers were. And according to those texts, the reason for the flood was because of the Nephilim, and it's basically the missing details of what happened in Genesis we know. That's all I'll say about that lmao.
Oooh, very interesting!! My understanding is that Satan/Lucifer and the Devil are not originally even the same character, and later biblical translations conflated the two. Bart Ehrman is a great resource on what actual biblical scholars believe.
Another great video! One thing that’s been bothering me though. Before they leave for Heaven, why does the Metatron ask Aziraphale if there is anything he needs to take with him if they don’t have material objects in Heaven? Everything the Metatron says is carefully & deliberately designed to ensnare Aziraphale back to Heaven but thIs just seems odd. He knows he’s pretty much succeeded by this point so why say this? Is he just mocking Aziraphale by pointing out that he should never really have loved his earthly pleasures (& Crowley) if he was a ‘proper angel’ or is it more of a definite final goodbye to everything he once defied Heaven to have? It’s not as if he really lets Aziraphale have a choice in keeping it. He’s already given the bookshop to Muriel before this (also why keep the bookshop? Pretty sure it could easily stop being an Angelic embassy if they wanted it to so why keep it? That’s pretty much asking for trouble especially if Crowley is still allowed to enter) so why specifically ask if there is anything he wants to keep? It’s a dangerous tactic because it nearly backfires as Aziraphale nearly changes his mind (we see him constantly look towards the window where we assume Crowley is standing & then Aziraphale actually almost voices his change of heart) I’m very likely reading way too much into it. I don’t know. It’s something so small but it’s really bothering me lol.
This is just a guess on my part, but I think the Metatron was just trying to continue his friendly facade --- act like he cared about the things Aziraphale cared about in order to more easily manipulate him. The Metatron wanted Aziraphale to feel like he was being given choices and agency even as he was rushing him out the door and onto the elevator.
@@supremeoverlorde2109I agree but considering everything up to this point has been carefully scripted to appeal to Aziraphale (the words he uses like piffle & balderdash & directly addressing Crowley) this just seems like a risk the Metatron didn’t need to take. Because it nearly backfires. Aziraphale was in a state of intense emotional distress when the Metatron entered that bookshop (after Crowley leaves) & it would have been much more efficient to have comforted him in a way that got him out of the bookshop as soon as possible. Because he asks if he’s ready to go when they are by the lift as well. It’s the choice to let him linger in the bookshop that confuses me. To me all it does is reinforce that the Metatron doesn’t quite understand what he’s taking away from Aziraphale & absolutely will come back to bite him in the proverbial ass.
@@palinite I think it probably will. I fully believe he's underestimating the strength of Aziraphale's connection to his time on Earth and to Crowley --- and his own sense of individuality, for that matter. The thing about Aziraphale is that while he finds himself conflicted at times, he ultimately tends to do what he believes in his heart is right, even if it doesn't jive with Heaven's goals. He's not just going to roll over and take it if he doesn't like what he sees with the Second Coming plans.
I recall reading that the unforgivable sin was not cursing God so much as turning one's back on grace. Which would suggest that it's not really unforgivable so long as the individual is willing to turn back. Be interesting to see if this concept plays out in the show.
Of course there are many re-interpretations of the Bible, and as many takes on the meaning as there are denominations. So yes, it could be denying grace.
If Aziraphale, as Supreme Archangel, would have the power to "appoint" Crowley to be an angel, who "appointed" the rebellious angels to fall and become demons? We assume it was God, but what if it was just the victors casting out the defeated? What if God's ineffable plan is just watching all this play out? Maybe she's hoping/ betting her scattered angels will use their free will and come together again.
Both heaven and hell have rejected Crowley and so has Aziraphale. It seems his brain works differently than other angels and demons. Maybe this is why lovely Aziraphale says he forgives him, but never really does.
Another amazing, thought-provoking video, thank you! Your theory makes total sense. I only wonder where Crowley's loss of memory comes from, and how much he has indeed forgotten. Or forced out of is memory? He doesn't seem to remember so many things. We'll hopefully learn in S3! By the way, thanks for sharing your postive attitude and the fun it actually is to speculate and discuss. Haven't seen it this way before and it really is ❤
i was raised in the catholic church. i have a lot of trauma, and I relate to both crowly and azi in different ways. i just felt like saying that. haha.
It's really good to share that kind of experience. A lot of Good Omens fans have a similar experience. I am sorry you went through that kind of religious trauma :(
What I noticed just now rewatching the conversation between the ineffable husbands before the earth is that depending it seems to me that whose wings are darker switches in each frame. That could of course just be down to the unusual lighting in that scene but if we assume that the grey of Crowley’s wings is significant then I believe this could be an indication that while Crowley fell and Aziraphale didn’t, Aziraphale also had his first questions at the time but was more scared (maybe even because sb said sth to him?) and more faithful. It could mean both of them had the same thought process in this scene but came away with different conclusions. I also think that after Crowley went off to ask his questions he might have ended up in the same situation as Aziraphale in S1, namely talking to the Metatron instead of God and therefore not being able to properly ask his questions, let alone get an answer. This might be what Leads to him being frustrated and cursing God for not even having time for anyone to ask questions/give constructive criticism. Another theory/hope I have for season three is that all the character from season one and two will come back to go out with a bang. With all the hints that the third season could take place in parts in the USA brings me to the conclusion that it might include Warlock as well. It could also mean Anathema, since she was American, and although most people assume she and Newt stayed in Tatfield I don’t think it was ever confirmed, they might have gone back to the states. It also just makes sense for Crowley to seek comfort in the few contacts he still has among humans now that everything is different due to Aziraphale being gone. I can imagine the first episode having Crowley and Aziraphale entirely separate from one another and learning how co-dependent they really are. But I don’t know, just a thought I had watching this video. Thanks for making it, btw, it’s always great fun to watch your videos and I appreciate the effort you put into them!
Perhaps blasphemy against the soul is a metaphor for betraying oneself. Betraying who you are at your core. And perhaps it is "unforgivable" in the sense that God cannot forgive you, for you have not betrayed God, only yourself, and thus only you can forgive the transgression. Perhaps Crowley isn't an unreliable narrator because he is lying to himself in the sense of truly knowing and misrepresenting the truth, perhaps he is like Jobe, who has "sinned so greatly to deserve all this, and not even know why." It's why he is still shrouded in darkness, still a demon, despite seemingly doing good things, and perhaps even "playing his part" in the ineffable plan. He believes himself to be unforgivable, because God has not forgiven him. And so it will be, until he can forgive himself. The primary issue there is that he seemingly doesn't know /what/ he has to forgive himself for. I wonder if in the moment his wings first darkened, what he truly wanted to do was shout at the sky "Are you fucking serious?!?" -- but because of his role as an Angel, and because of the queues from Aziraphale, he was afraid of God's wrath, and thus suppressed/betrayed himself to say "Oh well that seems like a shame doesn't it?" Perhaps God does want questions, and does want other perspectives, but perhaps what God values is each person's genuine self. Perhaps God doesn't want you to wear a mask, to tone down your true feelings. Maybe she just wants you. The real you, the true you.
You're amazing too. Yes, I do agree that you're mad as a hatter, and that is the most superior compliment that I could give you. Also thank you for doing all of that, I'm not one of those very perceptive people, so if you didn't do all of this, I would miss most of those beautiful details that truly create good omens. After watching all of your videos I'm able to go back and re-watch good omens in a completely different way, see the things that I did not see before. Once again thank you for gathering all of us here. ❤
watching this made me so much more hyped for season 3!! i never originally noticed the graying of crowleys wings. well. ok. i noticed but i thought it was just some weird effect of the nebulae being cast onto his wings or something. but seeing that scene play out again with your explanation of your theory. it makes so much sense. i definitely believe that moment was the first step in his long saunter downward. everything about how the acting and music and visual effects and- i could go on forever lol- everything about how that moment was laid out made it clear it was (likely? probably? definitely?) an incredibly important moment to the story -- of crowley, of aziraphale, and of their story together. ..... i lost my train of thought but before i post this comment i gotta say i absolutely love the idea of seeing the fall through aziraphale's pov while hes working in heaven. whatever story there is between metatron and crowley, im hoping that will be shown through aziraphales pov as well. especially if it brings them back together again 😭😭😭 anways- this was an awesome theory and its made me want to rewatch the first two seasons again with it in mind......and because i love having an excuse to rewatch it over and over and over and over and over- 😅
Someone suggested in the comments (can’t find it) that Aziraphale must have had a high position because he knew about Earth and people early on. I actually think Aziraphale had a very low position, possibly as a messenger, flitting from one department to another, glancing at everything and chatting innocently with everyone. I think Crowley’s position might be analogous to architect or city planner, designing the larger structures and mechanisms of the universe, but not involved in how the structures will be used. This would also explain why they don’t know each other even if Crowley were high up. Crowley was in a narrow technical field and he wasn’t a public figure even though his job was very important.
I have to believe that Aziraphale going by the name Fell is a clue. to what I dont know. I also keep coming back to Crowleys lack of details/memory. something happened there. I am excited by what season 3 will tell us and to how wrong I probably am... as a side note its believed the modern version. of angels with wings transpired because the work of the ancient Egyptians and winged gods went mainstream. but you have to admit, wings look so good on people. western artists should have thought of it too! and thanks for all your work. its so fun!
Yes! My partner in crime for this essay, actually noted the Egyptian God link. She wrote her own separate essay, as well. All religions borrow from those that came before.
If you notice when they are speaking when Crowley is questioning things both angels wings turn a little darker, Crowley’s wings turn end up staying darker, I think it is because he keeps questioning. I do think the theory is sound for the upcoming season.
Excellent, I like your theory about Crowleys fall, could really be possible. But one question on this. If there is no forgiveness for falling angels, how could Aziraphale return Crowley back to Heaven (if that wasn’t only a trick from the Metatron)? And I thought about the color changing of Crowleys wings. I also recognized this, but didn’t understand that as a sign of faith lost. For me it was always a sign of emotions, because the Wings also shown the joy when Crowley fulfilled the nebula. And Neils statement on this isn’t that clear. That certainly indicates that the wings of demons turns into black after the fall. But my theory could also be wrong, who knows… except Neil 😉
So demons can change their wing form however they want (Beelzebub one is fly wings, Satan's is bat wings) but Crowley chooses to keep the feathery angelic one, just in different colour. I bet some demon that got to know his wing form would sneer at him because to them feathery wings are a symbol of the past and of the angel bastards they don't have fond memories of. He keeps them anyway. I'm not saying Crowley wants to be an angel again. He also doesn't like being a demon either. It's probably some effort of him to symbolize how he was still the same being he was even after the Fall, albeit a little mix of black - the death of his innocence, like you said (he probably still like the feathery feature so he keeps it) (maybe the reason Aziraphale was so surprised at him in Eden was because he kept the wings unlike other demons)
It's in episode 5, just after he possesses Madam Tracy. She goes to her kitchen to make tea, and she looks in the mirror on her vanity, and sees Aziraphale, and he waves at her. :)
Cursing God and die is a nod to the actual biblical story where she said to Job "bless God and die" - which has two meanings - one is actually keep blessing God like you do and you'll die (since he already lost everything and the next thing is God taking his soul as well). The second meaning is that the word bless was a changed from "curse" (it is very unacceptable to write or say curse God in the bible) so actually she asks him to just finish the suffering and die by cursing God. It was a punishment back at biblical times. So I do not think because Crowley cursed God..
Вы проделал колосальную работу, но не совсеми вашими выводами могу согласится. Например, "лебединая верность" это все таки из легенд (просто символ любой верности - выбора, стороны, принадлежности, убеждений). А в природе лебедь найходит себе другую пару. Или в сцене под звездами, когда встретились Азирафаэль и Кроули, есть момент, когда сереют крылья у Азирафаэля (он тогда испуган), так что изменение цвета крыльев - может быть и отражением сильной негативной эмоции (страха, разочарования, обиды, уныния), и просто игрой света от рождения звёзд. И ещё во 2 сезоне - Кроули имел высший доступ, как у Архангела, поэтому смог посмотреть документы по "делу" Габриэля (6 эпизод). И на записи заседания на предложение, что Габриэль должен Пасть, Метатрон ответил - нельзя так как Та сторона поймёт, что у них системная ошибка. И здесь возникает вопрос, о ком говорит Глас Божий - Сатана восстал против Бога, как и часть Ангелов, но Сатана не был Архангелом (и не во всех текстах Сатана=Люцифер), к тому же Ада тогда ещё не было. Так о ком говорят? О Люцифере или ещё о каком-то Архангеле? Участие Кроули в войне, с моей точки зрения, тоже под вопросом, так как он не сторонник насилия - и пока его не прижать, он будет пытаться избежать применения силы, он даже стрелять не умел (2 сезон, фокус Поймай пулю зубами). А вот если Кроули загнать в угол, то он такой креатив выдаст, защищаясь - здесь и использование святой воды, и проезд через адское пламя (М25, 1 сезон), когда он развоплотил Хастура, и выпить вместо девушки смертельную дозу опиумной настойки (кладбище в Шотландии, переубедить не получалось). Так что Кроули пал или разочаровавшись в Небесах, отказавшись от них, или он та самая системная ошибка, неудобный ангел (а многих не устраивают профессионалы), от которого решили избавиться Небеса, отправив его Вниз.
My sibling noted that the last episode of s2 could be very similar to the fall- reaching but hear me out. The base of this analogy is the bookshop. Ppl invite others somewhere, some meeting/event (interestingly there is some sort of miracle to influence everyone- “no long faces, I just want you young people having fun”- idk exactly wht that could mean but it is ominous) and they find out that it isn’t exactly wht it seems- less meeting more dance, if u get my drift. After this, characters talk and do something that they thought they couldn’t do (dancing, in this case, I would be interested to know how Az and Crows relationship continues prefall bcs this could be a parallel in their relationship that makes the analogy more fitting). The interesting part is after the dance, when suddenly there is an interruption from an outside force, demons (could this mean a riot or something?). At this point, we can assume this is the war or some major conflict in Heaven, to which there is importance in Az and Crow’s actions. Az defends the bookshop by literally discorperating beings, which could be symbolic of the fall. That being said, their action afterwards of using their halo, something literally done during the war, could say that this is still in the war section of pre fall. Moving on to Crow, we see them herding people at the meeting out to safety, leaving this place to go elsewhere. We can assume that in this analogy that means Crow goes somewhere or tries to protect someone/something, though this is where the analogy has contrast because Az and Crow are there to protect people this time, unlike the lack of protection in what ever occured prefall- therefore why there isn’t a fall in this analogy, bcs Az and Crow are there to protect and defend people. Anyway, Crow goes up to Heaven and look through files, finding something that he doesn’t expect, which could be something that Crow does prefall- she finds something unpleasant in the Heavenly files that makes them lose faith entirely. Notably, Crow could symbolize a diff being in that moment, with Muriel being more representative of their angelic self. This means Crow could hv been influenced by another being, Lucifier and the guys, to look at these files- which is discovered and punished by another Angel (Saraquel in this case- though not punished, fortunately for Muriel). Anyway, eventually they are back down on earth, to the meeting place/war, where it is found that the demons have lost, just as they do in the war. That is when everyone starts to discuss punishments and such around the book of life. We can assume after this would be the fall, using the book of life to rewrite names and such. Anyway, blurry analogy and defiantly not well explained but it does give some possible shape to wht occurred prefall. The terrifying part is the idea that the rest of the episode could be parallel prefall as well, plus it WOULD MAKE THEIR CONVERSATION IN PLACEMENT OF WHERE THE FALL IS, which symbolically is devastating. Anyway, thanks if you read all my rambling. Have a great day y’all!
I had to come back to make another comment after thinking about your video again...I wonder if Crowley fell while he was saving Aziraphale's assss in one of their innocent turns insane capers...look how many times he showed up in the nick of time....I did watch this whole season 2 after your commentary...again, well done. After all he's 'an angel".
This all sounds very plausible! Personally, I think it's hilarious that Aziraphale is so scared of anyone finding out he's lied - God is the Almighty, omniscient and omnipresent in nature, don't you think your lies were seen, angel? God's just not bothered by them, cause, apparently, in the grand scheme of things, they don't mess with the ineffable plan! 🤣
Random thought? what about Saraquels coller being gray in the bookshop. She seems to be tolerant of crowley in heaven, even letting him watch the trial and first to notice the Megatron. Just thinking, has she also started to lose her innocence and started to fall???
Saraquel and Muriel are the only other angels I've noticed with tartan in their costumes. I wonder if this isn't foreshadowing them being allies with Aziraphale in heaven somehow.
The idea of Crowley cursing God just gave me an image of
Crowley, to God: Damn you!
God: no u
😂
Imagine the climatic moment is actually Crowley just saying "Fuck you!"
@@liblib620I can just imagine it going somewhat like
Crawley: FUCK YOU GOD
God: DAMN YOU CRAWLEY
*Crawley turning into a demon becoming Crowley*: AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
God: oops mah bad… *welp can’t fix it now
i wonder if Neil watches these video and is like "haha thats pretty accurate" or "haha nice try" or my favourite "haha i dont even know this one imma add that"
He doesn't, he tries to stay away from fan theories so they won't interfere with his creative process, and it could also be a legal gray area if a fan would guess right
Yep, Neil has been very, VERY clear, he stays away from fan content. I support that, it protects everyone involved.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't read/watch theories (even though there was a LOT of similarities in season 2 with some common fanfiction plots - great minds think alike?)
What I am confident in is that he won't emulate Moffat and his Sherlock season 3 fiasco, where it seems like the consensus among fans is that he had a plan, someone had guessed it all and then he decided to change it to still be the smartest guy in the room and the explanation for Sherlock's fall (no pun intended there, lol 🙃) ended up being a lot of nonsense. Neil doesn't seem to have such an ego so even if he came across someone guessing the entire plot by accident, he would hopefully ignore it. He said that the plot was decided by him and Terry years ago and I believe it is what we will see, for better or worse.
Unforgivable sin = holding god accountable. 😱🤔🙄
🔥🔥worth it, imo🔥🔥
The thing is, if he came across something, he might have to change it to not get in legal troubles. In one post he said, that if someone would send him anything, that that would assure that it would certainly not happen. So fans should stay away from suggesting stuff to writers, because when writers read that and then would use it, it would open the doors to that fan to claim part ownership of that story. Al least that is how I understood Neil's post. Someone with more legal knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong,
I mean Crowley curses god's plan in season one when him and Aziraphale were fighting. "Great pustulant mangled bullocks to the great blasted plan" ring any bells? So I could see Crowley cursing the ineffable plan not realizing what it would result in.
Great point!
That is visually my favorite moment in the series
He also says both heaven and hell are toxic, which implies that he has no love for the plan or either entity associated with it.
That and Aziraphale's scandalized expression gets a smile out of me every time!😂
result in what
I never noticed the color change before! Always assumed it was just from the light. Excellent catch! I think the theory is spot on and it is my feeling that Aziraphale will discover the recordings of Crowley's trial much like Crowley struck "gold" finding Gabriel's. Seeing Crowley's trauma will finally break that tether to Heaven that Aziraphale has. One thing that swans do when their partner has been taken....they will never look for another partner and will usually wither away. I can see Crowley withering to a point up until Aziraphale is threatened and then "all hell will break loose." Such fun to theorize! And hubby did a good job!
I've often heard how mean swans are. but as a birder I find most birds have quite the temper. and most birds while mating for life often live in hell with a mate they cant stand and have a roving nature.
I will pass on the compliment, harm appreciate that!
It is fun to theorize.
That’s a brilliant theory, oh now I really hope we’ll see Crowley’s trial or at least his file (I’m not sure every demon did get a separate trial but that’s an interesting question)!
" it is my feeling that Aziraphale will discover the recordings of Crowley's trial much like Crowley struck "gold" finding Gabriel's. Seeing Crowley's trauma will finally break that tether to Heaven that Aziraphale has. "
That's what I've been thinking, too.
But here's the other bits I've been thinking.
1. I think there's varying levels of memory-wiping going on here, from the start.
2. I'm not sure "who" Crowley was, but upon rewatching the star-nursery scene, I'm fairly certain that Aziraphale was a much higher-ranking angel. This is because he had all the deets on Earth and the time-limit on the universe, he'd "seen the plans", while poor Crowley seemed to not have the faintest idea about any of it - no matter that he seemed to have enough power to bring all those stars into being, AND he's seemed pretty powerful at various points as a demon, including being able to easily open Gabriel's file in heaven.
So, the memory-wiping. Crowley seems to not remember quite a few angels and demons and happenings, even though he was supposedly there, working closely with them. Now, he could be lying, but to me, it seems like the things he doesn't remember, he genuinely doesn't remember.
But he remembers Aziraphale.
Aziraphale, however, once they are on earth *behaves* like he's a lesser-ranking angel, and he's always behaved like he's in awe of Crowley.
Here's what I think may have happened.
Aziraphale tries to warn angel!Crowley that the whole "suggestion box" idea is probably not a great idea. He seems to know what might happen, while Crowley still has hope that his opinions will be listened to. (Another clue that he's probably not as high up as he'd like to present as.)
So, Crowley being who he is, that lovable, mouthy, brilliant-and-overflowing-with-ideas darling that we all know, thinks that *surely* he can just pass on his ideas, and tell God that She's not doing it right.
However, in this exchange (I have more ideas, but hold that thought), he's asked how he found out about Earth and the time-limit, etc, and he mentions Aziraphale.
So now Zira's in the shit, too.
I think they *both* got reprimanded, and demoted, one farther than the other, of course. And, I think that selective memories about the entire proceedings were deleted/repressed, for each of them. I think more of Crowley's memories are gone, and I think that he probably suppressed at least some of them himself, out of trauma. But I think that he did something in the 'trial' to try to "save" Aziraphale, and to a degree, it worked. (Perhaps they were both going to get a similar, but still angelic punishment, and maybe Crowley volunteered to be punished further, if Aziraphale were punished less.)
So. Crowley's been saving his angel from the start. Only, Aziraphale doesn't really know/remember that bit. He probably remembers *Crowley's* bit of punishment, or some of it, altered or not - but not his own part in it. Which would explain why in their early meetings, Aziraphale is still so upset/wary of Crowley, as a *demon*.
And Crowley remembers saving Aziraphale, and enough of his trauma to know that he doesn't want to ever let on to Aziraphale how bad it really was - but not a lot of other details. (Including his own name, I think.)
Basically, Crowley wants Aziraphale to "unchoose" Heaven on his own, because he's come to understand that they're not the good guys, and they're not worth it - without 'tipping the table' and telling/reminding him what actually happened, which would absolutely do the trick, but would seem like Aziraphale was being pushed away from heaven by Crowley, or an outside force in general, instead of coming purely from within. (I think Crowley might be misjudging this a bit, but probably isn't entirely wrong about what his angel's reaction might be. Because Aziraphale doesn't *remember*. He would claim that Crowley was overstating it, or was just using his demonic powers to drive a wedge between an angel and heaven.)
And also, I think that Crowley just really, really loves Aziraphale's innocence, and doesn't want to be the one responsible for destroying it. Which the whole sordid tale would. The last thing Crowley wants to do is hurt Aziraphale.
So, yes. I think that in heaven, Aziraphale is going to find the documents relating to Crowley's trial/fall/etc. I think he's going to see what Heaven did to him, but also to them, because he's going to see what was in store for him as well, and more importantly, what Crowley did, and sacrificed, to save him.
End of the main theory. But, back to the 'hold that thought', above.
So. We know that the Metatron is essentially a floating head, just like Oz The Great And Powerful. And we know that Oz *was* a floating head, because it was impressive, but also because supplicants will then 'talk to the head', and ignore 'the man behind the curtain'.
We are told that the Metatron is 'God's voice', he 'speaks for God', and you're supposed to talk to him, not directly to her. Also - God seems to have been oddly 'absent' through most of this season. Is she on a beach somewhere, slurping down a margarita? Who knows.
Anyway. Oz kept up the charade, because it kept the Emerald City and the rest of Oz functioning, and kept power flowing towards himself, where the truth (that it was just a small-time charlatan behind the curtain, pulling levers as fast as he could) would have sent everything crumbling down.
I think the Metatron IS "Oz". God may once have existed, but now, she's either dead, or on vacation, or simply uninterested in being in charge. She's gone. But the Metatron has effectively taken her place. He's the one pulling the levers, and making the decisions, but avoiding taking shit for those decisions personally, because, he's just a 'mouthpiece', after all. And nobody can question God.
So where I'm going with this is - if Crowley went to find a 'suggestion box', those suggestions ended up buck-stopping at the Metatron, unbeknownst to anyone else. The Metatron took crazy-offense (because it was actually HIS ideas that Crowley was questioning) - but of course delivered the 'wrath' as if it was from God herself. And pulled all the right levers to exact consequences. (Oh - and just like Oz was able to rig his setup to alter his voice, I would suppose the Metatron could do the same.)
Anyway - for me, that could explain why, in the Bookshop, the Metatron was shooting such incredible daggers at Crowley, AND why he is DETERMINED to not only separate Crowley and Aziraphale, but I'd bet that his real aim is to eliminate Crowley permanently. Because Crowley tugged at the curtain once, and he could do it again.
If Aziraphale (Rafael?) doesn't know this yet, I think he will. Talk about having the scales removed from your eyes.
And then he will Take Measures.
Anyway. I'm sure there's a million holes to poke in that - so many details that you've all seen, and I've overlooked, or just gotten wrong, or whatever. That's fine and great, actually - this is a bit of fun, and maybe if I'm lucky, there's something useful to be sifted out of what is probably otherwise a load of chaff.
@@flippetskater This sounds so interesting! I don’t think I necessarily believe the theory to be true, potentially, but please write that fanfiction or whatever because this is such an interesting direction to take this. Especially the theory that Aziraphale could’ve had a pretty high position originally but was demoted and now, after Armageddon was stopped and Gabriel fled, the Metatron wants Aziraphale to not only be Archangel, he could potentially want Aziraphale to be Archangel *again*, because maybe everything went to shit after he left but maybe the Metatron realised that you can’t just take Crowley out of the equation because as great as he may be, Aziraphale is too unbalanced to function properly without Crowley (hihi, unbalanced, get it? get it?).
So if you’re gonna write that into a fanfiction, please let me know, I’d read that!
Love this. Also explains why Aziraphale hasn't fallen despite how bad an angel he is, he doesn't question God's authority altogether. And there's another clue in the Job minisode.
Job: "God has forsaken me and delivered me to demons."
Crowley: "oh you must be furious."
Job "I burn with fury".
Crowley: "of course you do. After all your devotion to God." 👈
Another case of Crowley projecting.
Also at the bandstand, when Crowley curses out the great plan and Aziraphale says "may you be forgiven" THAT'S when Crowley says "I'll never be forgiven." Which is a different reaction to how Crowley rejects Aziraphale calling him nice or kind.
Excellent point about Crowley's reactions in both of those scenes!
Not nessicarily Crowley projecting. He is lierally there to get Job to turn against god. Getting Job to curse God would have won Satan the bet. I hear he had a permit and everything.
I'd argue Aziraphale isn't a bad angel at all. He may even be the best angel one could ask for.
"I'll never be forgiven" might also be more a matter the concept, one can not be forgiven by God until one is able to forgive oneself.
Aziraphale is just kinda bumbling. And Crowley just asks questions. 😊❤
My theory is that the metatron was behind Crowley’s and possibly the other demons fall. He does seem to hate Crowley for asking questions. And maybe there’s more like Crowley insulting him to his face. I’m not sure if God is behind it because so, far she seems like a neutral observer that gives her angels lots of tests to make them not only question things but, let them do their own thing. For example how Aziraphale and Crowley actually did what she wanted by stopping Armageddon. Crowley also observed why God would put the fruit if forbidden knowledge in the garden. On the other hand the Metatron would be like the type of religious figure that claims to speak for God but, is actually doing their own agenda. But its just a theory and I loved that reference 😂
On another note another inspiration that you left out was the omen. It is also about the anti- Christ and being raised by an American ambassador. The difference is that Damien is evil because he’s the son of the devil. Adam seems more human because he was raised by humans. As Crowley pointed out just because he’s dad is evil doesn’t mean the anti- Christ would be.
Yes! I like your take on the metatron and their function and agenda!
As a side note it reminds me of my first job where the owner was a super nice guy, but not really involved, and the general manager was an absolute angry creep who reported selectively to the owner and treated the staff like crap (especially the very young women).
Excellent explanation here. I have to say this was my theory from the first. The Metatron, is doing his own thing along with all the other archangels in tow, gathering power for themselves. I believe God is letting things play out and giving him enough rope to hang himself. It seems to me that this might be the true test, or at least part of it. Crowley and Aziraphale both did "wrong" things but in the end they were right because they were good. God never stepped in to punish them personally. There's a line from the film "The Rainmaker" were a father says to his elder son who is always correcting his younger brother about being wrong: "You're so full of what's right and wrong that you can't see what's good." Ultimately, my idea is that God's plan is to have everyone learn how to make their own decisions about what is right/wrong good/bad without threat of authority or following anyone else's lead by consulting their own conscience. Both Aziraphale and Crowley are going to have to do this in Season 3 because they will be on their own. Beautiful video as always and new into is super! Thank you for the extension on the True Talent. never hurts to have a few extra days.
@@JoRiver11 Had several similar experiences, so I cringe when I see Aziraphale now having to face his new position alone without Crowley's support. But I also think that's extremely necessary for Azi's evolution.
@@andreavictoriaparadiso47 I loved reading your response and I agree that God’s plan is for the angels and demons to make their own decision. I do wonder how much of an alliance the other archangels and the Metatron have. From little that I have observed i think the Metatron is doing is own thing separate from the archangels. When we first saw season 2 Michael and Uriel were fighting for Gabriel’s former position. And seeing episode 6 I think the Metatron didn’t even bother making someone else supreme archangel. Did he at that point planned to give the role to Aziraphale and just waited for the opportunity? The other archangels were the ones that wanted to hunt down Gabriel meanwhile the Metatron didn’t care at all. At the end of season 2 the other archangels didn’t even recognize the Metatron in person. Expect for i think Saraqael. The Metatron sent them away saying he would punish them. I wonder maybe the other archangels don’t want power and genuinely want to carry out God’s word without questioning anything. It reminds me a lot of religious people and their beliefs. My mom knew someone that had a lot of kids because her religion didn’t allow birth control.
I don’t think Aziraphale and Crowley would be on their own. If season 1 is any indication I think they will have lots of help. Because Good Omens theme is those two need to fight with humans to accomplish their goals. I even think that Muriel might join in as I think running Aziraphale’s bookshop would open their minds. I also hope Gabriel and Beelzebub could help them but, I would understand if they don’t come back.
The Omen was the first book I ever read cover to cover without putting it down. Someday I'll have to cover those parallels and subversions .:)
I was honored to be part of the analysis/theory fandom for Harry Potter before all the books were released. It truly was a "magical" time. And it really can't be repeated now that they are all out. Same for Good Omens. This is a great time to be a fan. Yes, you can enjoy it after all has been released and some questions will go unanswered but there is nothing like being part of the "we have no idea what's happening" timeframe.
Yes!!!
Lol, I remember that too - I was the 'Snape's not a bad guy, that's too easy' person all the way through. My friends would question my faith after every book, and I stood firm every time. And I was right! At least mostly - Snape was classically human, and a traumatized one at that!
Game of Thrones fandom is still going strong! Martin not releasing the last 2 books has been a blessing and a curse.
ug, I love Alan Rickman and Snape. Good on you! RIP to both!@@sassymusic77
I never did that one...I'd say maybe it's time but I am kinda busy being obsessed in this fandom. lol@@mintybadger6905
I absolutely agree! Haven’t noticed the change of Crowley’s wings until now, but I have had this exact theory for some time now. The key moment in my opinion is when Crowley stops Sitis from cursing God - it sounds like he is talking from his own experience. Also his reaction to seeing Job “being able to ask the questions” can tell us a lot I think.
Before I finish the video:
Swans! I remember looking up what animals Gabriel and the other archangels in the Bible related to
Guess what the Internet said? Swans. Side note when I think of swans and GO, I think of that scene in St James Park where they meet and Crowley asks for the Holy Water.
Yes! And the black and white swan swim together.
Or in S1x01 where God talks about the ducks liking the bread (that they shouldn't eat), and we see the large black swan. Will we see a Black Swan Event in S3?
I think your theory makes so much sense. I didn’t register the wing change as anything other than lighting. My running theory is that his questions led other angels to doubt and to question and to fall. I’ve even wondered if Crowley’s questions might have been what started Lucifer on his path to falling. He never meant for things to go so far. He never meant for anyone to resort to violence. He just wanted a suggestion box. That would connect with his title as the original tempter (he tempted angels into the rebellion) and it would explain why Metatron has such animosity towards him. It also doesn’t really conflict with your theory at all. I’m enjoying all of this so much!
Oh, and it would also explain Crowley as an unreliable narrator. He actually feels guilt for his role in things and doesn’t want to address it head on, because he believes he’s the reason for so much suffering. So he deflects even when he’s thinking about the fall all alone.
It's head cannon for me that Angel!Crowley's questions led to more angels asking questions.
Oh, I like that idea!!
I'm on board for this theory! It would make so much sense!
Alright, I have a weird theory here:
If we were to go with the 'Crowley is Azazel' theory, he technically wouldn't have fallen during the war. He would have technically fallen afterward.
In the story of Azazel, for some odd reason, after Lucifer and the rest of the rebelling angels fell, Azazel and a few others were actually allowed to stay in heaven. Whether or not they were demoted or just demon's allowed to remain in heaven is kind of confusing to me, but the fact remains that Azazel got to chill in heaven after the war.
Where Azazel fell was when Metatron came into being. Metatron was once human, Enoch, who was taken up from earth to join heaven, essentially taking Lucifer's previous position.
Azazel and two other 'technically' fallen angels disapproved of this. They called it out, and Metatron actually was the one to cast them out.
After the fact, Azazel was chained to some rocks by Raphael.
( I like to think of this as Aziraphale being the metaphorical chain holding Crowley to earth. He never leaves because Aziraphale never agrees to flee with him. Even after he thinks Aziraphale is dead, he still stays due to his feelings for Aziraphale.)
So, in conclusion, this would make for a slower fall, the saunter vaguely downwards. It would also make sense as to why Metatron hates Crowley, and why he claims Crowley kept asking foolish questions. Not just one, but multiple times.
"All I ever did was ask questions" He sounds heartbroken during that exclamation, because if he was cast out by Metatron for asking a question the confusion and upset would really make sense.
Another theory I have that coincides with the previous one,
Just like Metatron is the current spokesperson for God, Lucifer probably was back in the day too. What if Crowley poured his heart out to Lucifer, and Lucifer was then inspired to do something about it?
Like the final straw sort of ordeal, most likely Lucifer was already fed up with stuff, and then Crowley is just like "Hey all my work is going to be destroyed, can you put in a word to God for me?" Only for Lucifer to run with more ammo to rebel with.
It could have been a complete accident, no intention to start a fight, and Crowley could have accidentally been the catalyst actually putting more of a reason into starting a war. Roped up in the middle, not really sure what to do or what side to choose.
Interesting theory concerning Azazel!
But the Metatron has never been human. Neil did answer this point blank a while back. I will find the post and share it in my next video, as I think most people aren't aware of it.
Edited to add Neil's Tumblr answer.
neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/728289477045469184/hi-neil-gaiman-i-would-like-to-know-if-good-omens
@Sendarya Damnit! I just watched it, and commented on there. I felt I was really onto something! 😂
Well, do we even know if Crowley actually does have a different name? Has that been confirmed?
@@pikaboubouHe must have another name.
First of all, he changes his name at least twice: clearly couldn't have been called Crawly in Heaven, then changes it to Crowley. Then maybe once more, though a little debatable - centuries later Aziraphale finds out he goes by Anthony J. Crowley - why would he, of all beings, not be aware of his used name while regular people are? Then again, it might just be that Crowley never specifically told him his full name, so that's why at least twice.
And then.
The J. What does that stand for?
He not only has it in his full name (again, quite clearly lies about it being "just a J, really"). But most importantly when he signs the pact in the cemetery, with Hastur and Ligur, he signs as J and the paper accepts it as his name.
@@pikaboubou I do wonder if that was Neil being sneaky again, though! After all, Adam changed reality so that Satan was “never” his father; maybe there are other entities that can rewrite the past that way too!
A line Crowley says in the last episode of season 1 was interesting,,and may have some meaning on this topic....When Satan starts to arrive at Tadfield, Crowley crumples to the ground as if in pain. At one point while cringing on the ground he gasps " this isn't about Armageddon, this is personal!" I took it to mean he and Satan had had a falling out as well.
Interesting idea!
Hmmm. I read that scene where Crowley hears satan rising from hell, is that he’s coming in anger at Adam, not anger at Crowley. That it’s “personal” against Adam as his rebellious son.
It seems like Satan was mad that Adam wasnt doing what he should, not that his defiance was staving off the apocalypse. He considered having his son obedient and just like him to be fundamentally worse than the derailing of his plans for the end of the world.
@MtMomDesigns That's pretty much how I take it as well. Father's never get as rageful as when a child (esp males) go against them.
Hi I'm the one who arranged little intro melody, hope you'll like it!!
❤o❤
I love it!
@@Allegro11Maestoso thank you!
Tbh this is the most logical conclusion I can think of regarding Crowley's fall. I'm sure "I only ever asked questions," is inaccurate/incomplete, but we know that Crowley is fundamentally decent, and I expect any actions he took were only out of a desire for freedom. In the end, he just swapped out one tyrant to serve for another, which is honestly pretty tragic.
I think the one thing you pointed out is interesting though --- that if we assume cursing and rejecting God is what it would take to properly fall --- Aziraphale doesn't actually seem to know that, or at least, he's fuzzy on the specifics. Crowley, on the other hand, apparently does know much more intimately. If Crowley hasn't talked to him about this (obviously that's nothing new, as Crowley omits a lot), I wonder if in his own way, Crowley believes he's protecting Aziraphale from becoming like him. Because while Crowley has actively sought to open Aziraphale's eyes in a number of ways, there is a part of him that truly treasures Aziraphale's innocence, and he knows he wouldn't do well among demons.
Personally I'm just really interested to see what the straw that breaks the camel's back is going to be for Aziraphale. His loyalty to God has remained intact all these years in spite of everything, but I'm not sure that's going to last. And what's that going to mean for him?
I think it's going to be very, very hard to watch, whatever Aziraphale goes through.
Good observations! Crowley does hide so much to protect his angel. That might backfire a bit, now.
@@Sendarya It's so bizarre how the two of them both omit or outright lie about things that you'd think would be incredibly important or useful for the other to know. Their relationship is very unique in that they kind of live in their own world with a language they've developed that only they understand. But instead of using that language ALONGSIDE normal communication, they use it to replace it. I know they'll be occupied with world-ending stakes once again in season 3, but man, I hope we get the satisfaction of seeing them talk. For real --- without burying the things they truly want to say.
I think maybe Aziraphale will be able to stay loyal to God once he separates Her possible intent from Heaven, the Metatron, and his own identity. Many things are actually being done by Metatron, the archangels and because of bureaucracy/politics in Heaven, not because they are from God.
That really got me thinking!!
I think that another blasphemy could be that he considered the nebulae as his creations, when they were supposed to be God's
Ah! Taking the place of God, another interpretation of that unforgivable sin, yes!! Very good, I like it.
Hi big fan here! :D
I know its prolly very unrelated but this thought has been kinda keeping me up at night. SO i never see anyone talk about aziraphales response in one of the first scenes with gabriel/jim. Jim/ Gabriel asks Aziraphale if he ever had the feeling that everything would be better if was just near one particular person and at first aziraphale is nodding slightly but then he realises and immediately denies it and even starts to panic a lillte. i think it was obvious that he was thinking about crowley but yet again he had to denie it because he wasn’t sure if Jim/Gabriel was still working for heaven. It is such a great scene and helps with analysing the ending from aziraphales perspective because it shows he wants to be with crowley so bad but is still afraid about heaven knowing about his relationship with crowley.
Excellent point! That is exactly what that scene is demonstrating. He is constantly afraid of heaven finding out about them.
The Metatron once said that "To speak to me is to speak to God" maybe he was the one Crowley cursed.
Downplaying and justifying our mistakes is so typically human. I did have the same reaction to Job’s wife cursing god and so glad Crowley made his appearance at that moment. It was a good “Clue” about his fall.
I often think when reading reviews that people do often make it more complicated than it is. And since demons (at least in the
GO universe) do know the differences between good and evil, I do think that makes Crowley much more human than Azirafale. Although he’s learned much from Crowley, he’s not there yet. And I do agree he may now learn and believe, during the time he is in heaven during season three, the differences between good and evil and the legitimacy of that knowledge. Can’t make the choice to be good if you don’t understand the opposite!
Once again, thanks for doing all the research for those of us who are too lazy to do it ourselves. 😏
I think your theory is spot-on. One thing we don't talk about enough that I just recently saw on Tumblr is how much the fire and the book shop would have re traumatized Crowley reminding him of the fall. Especially when there are like flaming pieces of paper falling from the second story. He's looking up to while he's calling for Aziraphale, and then he goes to the bar to drink about aziraphale being gone. The trauma of the Fall is fresh in his mind. Maybe it's not important for this theory, but it's just sad.
Theres a really good fanfic that explores this. Its quite popular so you mightve heard of it or read it already but if not, its called Demonology and the Tri-phasic Model Of Trauma.
I’m gobsmacked! I just assumed it was shadowing (not foreshadowing). You are all so clever!
I think its probable that Lucifer preyed on Crowleys discontent to incite him into some kind of direct action that Crowley might not otherwise have taken on his own. I imagine Crowley probably made attempts to speak with god directly (just as azi did) but was blocked by the metatron, who is probably the greater architect of crowleys fall than god ever was. Crowleys frustration, coupled with Lucifers coercion probably led him to cross the line.
If mere questioning of God's plan really was instrumental in causing angels to turn into demons, it's not that hard to imagine Lucifer having pretty good reasons to question the plan, especially as we see Armageddon portrayed as more of a pay-per-view event put on jointly by Heaven and Hell for reasons that are impossible to guess (other than entertainment) and the inhabitants on Earth forced to suffer as a result. Perhaps if Lucifer was God's chief lieutenant, that was HIS part of the job and he objected on principle and ended up taking a lot of angels with him. Although if that were the case, we don't see that in the series (but we might in the Lucifer series). We humans tend to make Gods in our image, where real gods would probably not be comprehensible to us (nor would their plans).
I feel like Crowley, despite being fallen, still loves God. He wants God to be fair and kind. And being cast out appears to have hurt him far more than the other demons. The other demons are just hateful or bitter. Crowley is angry at Heaven and God, but is still in awe of God and wants God's love. He prays to and yells at God in Season One and looks upward noticeably a number of times in Season Two. The other demons seem to be totally loyal to Hell, and don’t appear to think of God except as a distant adversary of Hell. That is how I see it.
Hmmm!
I noticed that too 😅 but i thought i was dramatising or something since most people claims he hates everything heaven related
The funny thing is that by still loving God he technically hadn’t blasphemed the Holy Spirit in biblical canon. When that happens the Holy Spirit leaves them since they already had an active and permanent hatred of God, which is why the Pharisees or the Pharoah did this sin, but Paul after killing Christians or Peter rejecting Jesus 3 times didn’t lead them into this sin.
I really like your theory and I wanted to add something I found during one of my GO rewatch. In season 2, when Crowley tries to speak with Jim about his memory in episode 5, Jim says that he feels like an empty house. First, Crowley was a bit surprised, he said like "A house?!?" and when Jim explained a little bit more about his feelings, Crowley added, "I know. Looking at where the furniture isn't". And I felt like he knew exactly what Jim was talking about. Just like he had been through the same thing. And when Jim says "It hurts to remember," he says " I know, do it anyway". Like he knew he could do it because Crowley remembered a few things. So, maybe they erased Crowley's memory when he fell and he tried to remember but like gave up at some point because it was too hurtful. This can explain why he doesn't remember Fufur during the Great War or Saraquiel while they worked together.
Or maybe I'm just going mad.
That is a fairly popular theory! There are so many references to memery being messed with, it's not just one or two things. It's constantly. Could it be that Crowley had his memory tampered with? Possibly. If so he seems aware of it. It could be so many things. It's one of the biggest mysteries of season 2, that we all hope to see addressed in season 3. 😉
I really love all your analyses and theories, thank you! I just want to add one thing to the above: remember how God spoke to Job, and Crowley said 'but to be able just to ask the questions!', and it makes me think that before the Fall he went to God for answers and was refused (by Metatron?) to even ask - and that was a final straw for him. Maybe he cursed God, or just became really angry and then Lucifer and the guys turned up.
Glad to see this, I'd seen Neil's Tumblr answer about Crowley's wing turning grey, and wasn't happy because I wondered what it meant. But this is cool. And I think you're right, he lost faith in, and possibly cursed God and the Ineffable plan. I also think this is shown up when Crowley yells in the bandstand about the plan. Another Archangel Crowley probably knew well, but got on better with, was Saraqael, who said they had worked together on the design of the nebula. It will indeed be extremely cool and exciting to see which, if any, fan theories and ideas turn out to be correct, or close to correct, in what will happen in season 3 and what else we might find out about!!!! I think it'll be really jam packed😊
He does indeed curse the plan at the bandstand! Excellent point.
Watching Neil shred our theories to little bits will be entertaining, lol
Maybe Crowley cursed the Metatron with the lovely “Great pustulant mangled bollocks” curse (a little foreshadowing?), or his “TEN!” fury with lightening bolts. He does have a bit of a temper. Whatever he said, I’m sure it was a good one!
You’ve done it again, dear Sendarya, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here with why Crowley fell. (Should we be A BIT concerned about Aziraphale’s pseudonym ‘A Z Fell’???)
Crowley wants to “go off together” with Azi, eschewing both Heaven and Hell, while Aziraphale never wavers in his faith in God and the Ineffable Plan, just what his role may be in it.
Love the new opening and LOVED the “that’s just a theory, a Good Omens theory!” MatPat homage-that you have resisted doing that for this long shows admirable restraint!
Thank you :) I resisted for so long! It's just this once lol
There is a white and black swan moving towards each other to form a heart in the scene where crowley asks aziraphale for holy water. This could be a Clue to your theory :)
And even as they meet Crowley says: "We have a lot in common you and me" !!!
Yes!! I agree
And also the bit with Crowley’s plants might give away some more clues as to why Crowley fell. If he’s recreating some past experience with God or Metatron or some higher authority, then it shows he was threatened with the fall even before it happened. He didn’t mean to fall? To afford him some agency, I think he did. For what reason, with it being Crowley, I’d wager he thought he could make a difference away from heaven’s close authority. And I’d guess that’s why Metatron is threatened by him, because he shows again and again that he has the will to rebel against the morals or both heaven and hell in order to preserve his own idea of morality and protect what he loves. “Just to be able to ask the question” could mean he was punished by God for questioning her authority in general or it could mean he was barred completely from asking his questions (thinking of how aziraphale could only interface with Metatron). Gives him and Metatron even more of a context as to why Crowley got That Look from Metatron.
Maybe Crowley was trying to ask God questions, but the Metatron got in the way. I think the Metatron got rid of Crowley.
Exactly!
Very interesting, I like it! Seeing him barred from asking the question by the metatron is an excellent idea!
I just want to tell you that these videos are brilliant! They are so well done, and so well researched, it makes me happy (and a bit jealous). More people (including my students) need to do work like this. Thank you!
That is so kind of you, thank you! What do you teach?
@@Sendarya I teach college psychology online. My students are of the firm opinion that their opinion is as good as tested facts, and have a horrible time supporting what they say with evidence. You do that absolutely beautifully, and you are careful to say it's all your own opinion/hypotheses. I'd give you an A!
Now I want a theory about why demons, after their fall forget how to spell correctly.
AHAHXJJASJSKSK YES PLEASE
Or speak. Not pointing fingers at anyone specific, Crowley 👀
Then again, if you do fall and hit your head it could be kinda difficult to talk and write properly 😂
And why Crowley can still spell (confirmed by Neil)
Needs stated that because angels and demons don't think for themselves (compared to bees at one point) that neither of them seem too terribly bright. Both Crowley and Aziraphale struggle because unlike their counterparts they have been on earth long enough to learn, and were perhaps a bit too clever/smart to be where they were. They both ask questions constantly. The fact Aziraphale has to say things in support and defending heaven constantly out loud as though to talk himself into it because internally he's struggling with it.
"How can you be so clever and yet so stupid".
A little while ago I posted on someone else's video that Crow fell because he lost his faith in God. The questions aren't an issue, questioning to the point of not believing that God knows what they are doing?
Aziraphale based his fear of being cast down on the assumption that Crowley's fall was from asking questions. The archangels don't question at all, and are trying to force something to the point that they practically seem evil, but they believe they are doing God's will. By saving Job's children, and goats, Crowley assumes that God doesn't know what they are doing and goes against that assumed will. Whereas Aziraphale believes in God's will, he has just been brainwashed by the archangels to believe that not following through with the KNOWN plan goes against God.
From the first season and on, Crowley has little moments that could restore his faith. For example, when realizing that Gabriel doesn't know the ineffable plan, he could have connected the dots there that he's been doing exactly what God has wanted all along. Even when we see him talking up in his apartment, he doesn't ask the right questions and come to the conclusion that everything is going to be alright. Instead, he wallows in the misery of it all and is still skeptical of God's will.
Yes!!! Completely agree with you, excellent points!
THANK YOU for coming up with a theory that makes sense about Crowley's fall. Having been brought up in a traditional Roman Catholic and having spent many years in ministry, I am so well-versed in the theology surrounding angels and demons that I couldn't figure out what distinction Neil was making between the disobedience of the angels on various occasions and anything that could get someone irrevocably damned. Aziraphale's lie about Job's children seemed to quality as adequate cause for damnation--at least when spoken by an angel--because angels are expected to maintain a higher level of holiness than are humans. Again, according to traditional Christian theology--humans are worth the sacrifice of Jesus Christ's human life to enable forgiveness of human sin, but demons could never be forgiven. They didn't deserve it because their free will wasn't crippled by Adam and Eve's "Original Sin." Obviously, Neil couldn't write his characters according to that logic--but the idea that humans and angels could both commit the unforgiveable sin puts both "races" on a level playing field in terms of our ability to sympathize with them and resolves multiple questions I've had about the show. I didn't think it was possible, but you've made me even more excited/curious about the coming Season 3.
I'm so glad this has excited you even more for season 3!
I agree, the GO's universe must give humans and angels more equal footing.
Yeah!! I think you're in the right path there! That's honestly the only reasonable thing I can think of too, although I'm quite sure that God herself had nothing to do with casting the Fallen Angels down.. I think the idea came from the Metatron and he was the one who judged and punished all the angels down to this brand new thing called Hell, but could be wrong tho! Love your videos!
Thank you Sendarya.
As always, your video got me thinking:
Does Crowley himself really know, why he fell? Does anybody know exactly? It is not like there was a trial. There was no verdict. At least, we do not hear of one. So it is a bit messy to find out, why he (and the others) fell.
What we know: In the GO lore there was a rebellion by a fraction of angels and than a war, between the rebels and the rest of the angels. The conformists won and the rebells were "cast out" of heaven.
I think the rebellion may have broken out over the humans place in creation and Gods plan: There is the idea of jealousy of the angels, as a reason for the fall, in judeo-christian theology: Some of the angels - very potent beings, created before creation, made of light, where not content to step back for "imperfect" human beings, made from clay, chosen by God to be the most important thing, the beings whom God gives her love to. Beings the angels were supposed to serve.
This idea is touched on in the show: Crowley ist irritated, when he is told, the stars and nebulas are just being wallpaper for the humans on far away earth...
In my head, this may be the main conflict between God and the rebelling angels: They did not like the part of the ineffable Plan, where humans are created. Why create imperfect beings? Why not make a paradise for angels? Or give the humans to the angels as toys, or slaves... - Why should angels serve the humans, work to get the humans to do good? Guard the humans? They are better than humans.
I think this would be an interesting motivation for the rebellion: Crowley might have been against the "great plan" to create humans and give them free will. - He ends up to be the snake in the garden to test Adam and Eve and see them fail. - This may have been his first real encounter with humans. Is this the moment his perception of humans changes him. He begins to pity them.
And there is Aziraphale to challenge him - already caring about the humans - giving his flaming sword away.
Later he sees what humans can do to each other. He witnesses a lot of atrocities humans perpetrated. (Worst than what he is able to think of.)
But living among humans shows him their compassion, capacity for love and friendship and good too. He encounters human children and their innocence. He is angry about the flood. He realises that it is not all black and white, but grey. He observes, he learns to care for human life very early on. And the questions get more and more: What is Gods plan with these humans?
And this is what sets Crowley and Aziraphale apart: As soon as Adam and Eve are created, they are interested in the humans, care for them, befriend them, save them. All other angels and demons despise human beings. They cannot wait for the time of the humans to end, to see their world and time gone. The only difference is: Hell openly tries to make humans suffer. Heaven pretends to bless and influence the humans to be good, as that is their purpose in Gods ineffable plan, but they do not really respect them, the certainly do not care for them. They cannot wait until the humans will be gone again.
I think it is interesting to explore - what does the creation of humankind change for angels? What is Gods plan for angels and humans? Are the rebells right, in despising the humans and rejecting Gods plan over it? Crowley thinks there is going to be a war in the end "all of us - against all of them" - What about that? What does it mean?
This is not really a theory, these are my random thoughts. I agree with a lot of points and observations you make in your theory. The main thing I would like to add: Humanity may have played a role in the conflict between God, the angels and the demons, right from the start - even before they were created. Because humanity and its fate is at the center of the great "blasted" plan.
Thank you for the excellent post!
Yes, a lot of that information is actually in Paradise Lost as well, the jealousy and all.
It's very possible!
I love this do much!! Such an insightful comment!
I just want to suggest that you read (or reread) the book. Because after the "all of us against all of them" Crowley goes on about the great plan and what it means. It certainly feels like he is on to something there. And then he just forgets about it when a stranger interferes. (My interpretation is that it is God. Could also be Death, but I think that is unlikely). This means we actually have a brain wipe in the book!
I know the series differs from the book in some aspects, and that seasons 2 and 3 go well beyond the events of the book. But after rereading it I came to the conclusion that it might be worth a closer look. After all the series is based on ideas Neil and Terry had for a second novel and well before the series was produced. There are references to the book even in season 2. Most of them are not important for the story and probably don't have a deeper meaning, either; they are just there for the fans spot (like in Episode 2 the man in the pun reads a newspaper with an article about Milton Keynes, which was mentioned in the book as a joke). I was surprised, however, when I found the beehive analogy that Crowley uses in epispde 6 was already in the book!
If I ever have too much time I might go through the book, line by line, and mark everything not found in the series. Then I would have to decide if it was only left out or changed to make it work on screen or other obvious reasons. Anything left could be a potential clue (I was tempted to use a capital letter here :D) for season 3.
Especially towards the end of the book I noticed some differences. And some of the take away messages from the book haven't made it into the series (yet?), like 'the world might be a better place if people learned responsibility were allowed to sort everything out without Heaven and Hell messing with them', and ' the trouble caused by people/entities only doing their jobs' (which kind of is a theme in the series with all the 'bad' things the archangels do, but there never was the conclusion that blindly following orders, or what they think where their orders, is actually wrong). And maybe most importantly: what if it all actually was part of the ineffable plan, including the fall and everything?
I think I got carried away a little with this answer. My mind recently started coming up with some ideas and theories of its own and I cannot stop it. Thank you @Sendarya for doing all the research and creating these amazing videos!
@@FranziskaS6364 "I think I got carried away ... My mind recently startet coming up with some ideas and theories of its own and I cannot stop it." - Yes, you are infected with Good Omens. It happend to all of us. Thanks for your insides. I will go and read the book - again.
“Oh, I didn’t fall… I just, sauntered vaguely downwards.”
“Exactly!” Angels were created for the purpose of worshipping the Almighty and carrying out Their will whether it was to drown all the locals or torment a righteous believer like Job. Aziraphale fully understands the dynamic, the politics of what he owes his very existence to. Angelic Crowley, a (maybe the?) prideful Prince of Heaven, didn’t have the same opinion. (See, the art JoaMaj showed during the Pride and Prejudice watch party comparing the Crowley/Darcy proposal scenes lives in my head.) Glad to know NG confirmed the color change.
you're amazing Sendarya
Well, thank you! I'm blushing
🥰
I have to tell you, just when I think there couldn't possibly be anything more new to say about Good Omens and its world/characters, a new video from you comes out with intelligent, nuanced, detailed, and brilliant arguments and I'm ridiculously impressed.
Aw, thank you so much!
Just want to say that the way you break down the symbols in GO is inspiring. I love the deep analysis.
I just really want to know what angelic sphere Crowley was in. Almost certainly higher than the archangels. I want to say a Throne (resides over the cosmos/material starting to take form).
I feel like I NEED to know his entire history, even more than Aziraphale.
Actually Neil answered this, I follow his tumbler. Archangels with the capital A such as Michael and Gabriel are the highest in the hierarchy. Gabriel was supreme archangel, the only ones above him is God and probably the metatron as he did remove him from his position. I headcanon that Crowley was Raphael, as that is the only major archangel missing. But if you don’t like that theory he could be a throne, which would be just behind the Archangels.
me too. I hope Neil has a good story for it.
@@moondivine2288 Of course Neil beat me to it! I'm still super curious what the whole story is though. He's clearly got high access in heaven that they forgot (?) to revoke.
Hnngghh I dislike not knowing everything about everything. My ongoing lack of selective omnipotence vexes me. 🤣
@@maizie9454 He already beat us to it! Check out the other reply to my comment!
@@CelticShrew I’m with you that I dislike not knowing everything. All I can do is analyze everything I see in good omens, I could be right or wrong but it is nice seeing what other people have noticed.
I agree that Crowley did have a high position in heaven. Not only because he could access the files but, when Gabriel said that he was the highest archangel in the room the camera focuses on Crowley. I don’t know if it’s a hint but, it does make me wonder. I can’t wait for season 3 to hopefully get the full story.
21:50 I think it’s sad how people take theories as a competition to see who’ll guess right and get annoyed when things don’t go that way. I just love to hear people speculate on topics they love, and seeing people trying to work these plot threads out like puzzles is very interesting.
I thought about it yesterday when I was contemplating doing theories of my own but worried I’d have to add a disclaimer saying how I don’t think it’s a given, but it’s just a possibility.
Do it! I'd love to see what you think. No one should have to have disclaimers, none of us knows what's going to happen. Just go have fun doing the guessing.
I agree...just do it! We learn so much just hearing them and, as Crowley says, "Fresh point of view."
The great thing about this Fandom, that I have seen, is that we all know that we don't KNOW! There may be some outliers, but generally, we are just excited anticipating the final chapter. So far, Neil and the team channeling Terry's spirit, have done a great job telling this story. Whatever they bring to life in season 3 is going to wrap us in a warm blanket with a cup of hot chocolate on a rainy day 😋 We are going to leave all the theories behind and escape into their world once again.
Your theories will just fill the void until then, so do it!
@@compubijou Agree! And Neil and the team are certainly fomenting this anticipation and "not knowing" thing which I think is truly a wonderful opportunity for the fandom. Who knows where this will lead us and what will happen after Season 3. Here's to sharing that cup of cocoa with you! Cheers!💖💖💖
I agree that Crowley is a deeply traumatised being, as we can see by his reaction at Gabriel's appearence in the bookshop, the one place where he feels safe (safe enough to remove his glasses). And I think that is why he's being very gentle and cautious in the way he tries to "wake" Aziraphale to the truth of the world. He doesn't want him to reject God and fall, he just wants him to think by himself and get rid of his "black/white" mentality.
Tbh. Felt this was blatantly addressed. Just not directly. He asked god why. Even marveled at Jobe for *Even being able to ask the questions!* and he became nervous when his wife said shed curse god. He also...directly said he was going to have a talk with upper management about the plan for the universe to end in a few thousand years. He also directly said *in the old days, it only took asking questions, to be a demon.* 😅 I do love the video. Thankyou for your work.
You're right, there is some suggestion that the rules have changed, but we also know Crowley is an unreliable narrator about his own fall.
I sincerely hope we get an answer to this question in s3!
Oh. My. GAWD! The theory you dropped around 21 mins *clutches heart*
And I love that you addressed this very special time of anticipation of the next season. Once S3 drops there won’t be another! We truly are blessed to live in a time where we get to see books such as the likes of Lord of The Rings, Harry Potter, and Good Omens all be made into watchable films. 😍
My favourite rendition of Lucifer has always been one that mirrors real-life religious extremism. Basically he hated sin SO MUCH, he couldn't agree with God's willingness to forgive it, and couldn't understand why God seemed to love mortals over angels.
Lucifer made it his mission to PROVE mortals were unworthy of God's love. Hence why he encourages sin yet punishes sinners.
Amazing video as always! And what interesting insights into Crowley's fall. I personally theorize that there is some sort of foul play concerning the fall. The Metatron seems to have some sort of personal issue with Crowley, that Crowley doesn't seem to recognize. This is both apparent in their brief interaction and how Metatron speaks about Crowley to Aziraphale in s2e6. The Metatron is furthermore very caught up in maintaining the status quo, and not making it seem like Heaven has an institutional problem (Which it does, angels keep rebelling). It is also established that Crowley has forgotten some of the people he knew before the fall, this could be chalked up to his pride, but he also relates to Gabriels description of missing memories. Loss of memories is a big theme in s2. The Metatron expects Crowley to remember him though, and to be fair all the others did too, but the Metatron is testing just about everyone's allegiances in that scene. I think he was testing Crowley as well. The fact that Crowley is very unreliable about his own fall also gains a new light with the holes in his memory. I do believe Crowley did the unforgivable, whether that is what you theorize here or something else, but I also believe that his questions got him some sort of answer, that he wasn't supposed to get.
just wanted to say that i’ve been super distraught over the ending of season 2, but your point of how this period in between is a gift really changed my perspective and i so appreciate that. ao3 can only heal so much
AO3 is a great resource and comfort! I encourage everyone to make their own fan content. Fic, art, podcasts, tumbr blog, funny memes. I'm really glad I could help shift your perspective. Enjoy the fandom!
I wonder if Neil ever watches these videos.... I also can't help but feel that God has been absent for a reason, and that maybe Crowley fell for a reason - the ineffable plan versus the great plan type of thing. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on that in the show... Great video as always!
Unfortunately Neil never watches or read any fan fiction or theory, as he often comments on thumbr. But also fortunately he doesn’t, to keep his clean mind.
Yes! I do think that the rejection of God would be the ultimate sin in the GO universe.
But something else that I had been thinking about is, the memories of the demons, especially Crowley’s memory.
We know that he tends to down play his recounts on the his own process of becoming a demon, but could this be a memory issue? Because he remembers certain things, but has a hard time remembering others. Maybe something to do with PTSD or did heaven play a hand in it?
I’m wondering if heaven had a similar demoting process for the demons as they would have done with Gabriel.
This was just a random thought I had
That is also my thought!
I'm wonderiing who Muriel really is and how many scrivners there are in lonely scrivner purgatories?
something else to add, if Aziraphale were to go against anything the "higher counsel" they could do the same thing they tried with Gabriel (or worse). The whole idea is to keep them separated, so along as Aziraphale stays in heaven, it doesn't really matter what role he plays. And him missing his memories will help keep him there.
AAAAAAAA I feel like I"m thinking to much about thisssss
I am also interested in the issue of memory in GO!
My idea is that Heaven tried to handle the rebellious angels by wiping their memories, as was planned for Gabriel, but because the rebellious angels did not consider themselves to be part of Heaven anymore, the memory wipes were only partially successful, and that they were thrown out of Heaven because of that. -- Because if Heaven could just wipe their memories completely, Heaven wouldn't have to throw them out.
Although _that_ could mean that if some of the memory wipes were successful so that those formerly rebellious angels stayed in Heaven, then maybe most of the angels rebelled against the management of Heaven, because according to Beelzebub at the end of GO 1, Hell's numbers were equivalent to Heaven's.
i like your approach to this limbo btw s2 & 3, i felt like it was agony but you are actually right, it is the time to analyze and make guesses and have fun with it :)
Yes! Enjoy it while it lasts. :)
So I have a theory that Crowley wanted to ask God but was unable to. I think they were intercepted by Metatron much like Aziraphale was. Bc of Crowley's comment about Job having the opportunity to ask. Metatron refused to let them ask them.
Yes! The Metatron particularly dislikes questions (“always asking damn fool questions”) and doesn’t give a clear answer to A’s question about the second coming
I totally agree with this!
I have always seen it as kind of an actual job scenario, but with much higher stakes and much bigger egos. Crowley is like someone who wanted to form a union, so that the worker's voices were heard. When you call for a strike, you can have the super obedient strike breakers who look down on the strikers like they are ruining everything. You have the strikers looking for change. You have Lucifer and the boys who want a regime change, and Crowley kinda gave examples of general discontent that would have been discussed. So if the big guy and an army suddenly goes in while you are striking, and everyone is suddenly following... well, you were on strike, at this point you are fucked if this side doesn't win. It doesn't, and now you are a demon for wanting to see your work matter and and for things to actually make sense, not to mention an amount of fairness to all of it. Because there are a billion levels of angel, everyone is separated, and it is quite bee-like, actually, if God is the queen. Despite humanity also about to exist... Lucifer was a high up angel in the show, so, if you are forced to pick a side and your wings are grey...
You're right. Azirphale is so frightened on Crowley's behalf, even at that very first meeting. And that anxiousness is mirrored in the final scene. I hadn't really thought about the sin of blasphemy. Taking the Lord's name in vain..but that makes a lot of sense, he gets very anxious if Crowley says anything critical.
I guess if he went to war in a revolution against God, he's gonna fall..
I think Aziraphale will see Crowley's fall by looking at the file as it were... but he won't risk falling himself?? IDK I just can't imagine him being in Hell..I think he will want to stay in his little bookshop.
One interpretation of blasphemy is taking the lord name in vain, but it isn't the only interpretation. That's one thing that makes it so confusing! lol
I don't think anyone else is going to fall, either.
Great video, as always! Have you read Neil Gaiman's Murder Mysteries? That's essentially THE story of the fall, and Neil once called it a dark version of Good Omens. Also, we get some familiar faces there (Saraquael...) So that keeps me wondering how many answers to the fandom's questions are hiding there. Any thoughts?
I didn't know about those! I am immediately going to check those out! Thanks!
@@washedupartist Enjoy!
I haven't read them! will add those to my reading list, thank you!
Great analysis. I think you've convinced me with the reference to Sitis and then Matthew 12:30. I'm looking forward to seeing if S3 will deliver on any of these questions but, if not, it's fun to speculate all the same.
Fantastic video! I always wondered, if there were no demons or hell established prior to the war what made Aziraphale panic so much for Crowley when he mentioned the suggestion box?
That is a VERY good question! One I have no answer to, as we don't really have any other clues, either intra or extra textual, that I know of.
I so hope a time comes when Crowley can happily agree with Adam: "...there never was an apple...that wasn't worth the trouble you got into for eating it." i.e. all his apple-eating (questioning) was not just fine, but valuable and appreciated.
Yes, beautiful, I agree!
Your theory is spot on. For additional evidence, notice what Crowley asks after Aziraphale confesses to lying to thwart the will of God. He asks whether Aziraphale is going to tell anybody: if not, nothing has to change. So clearly, IF Aziraphale did tell, I.e., overtly challenge and reject God’s authority, that’s when things would have to change. That would have been the unforgivable sin (in universe).
As of 9:03, I think Crowley helped start the great war in the beginning of heaven that helped him get casted down to hell. I think he did it in the first place because he saw how corrupt Gabriel and the metatron were, and he thought he could help, like aziraphale did. He thought he could change heaven exactly like what Aziraphale thinks, Which is why he's so sure and why he understands what Aziraphale is thinking "a whole lot better than you do".
Very interesting idea! I like the connection you made to that line pf dialog.
@@Sendarya AHH I didn't think you'd see my comment! Thank you 😭😭😭. I love your video and I'm about to go watch a ton more thank you for the content, it helps me make so many connections and get nerdy about it.
It is considdered blasphemy to insult something sacred - so everytime Crowley says to Aziraphale he’s an idiot, he’s blapheming. And Aziraphale forgives him, even if he’s unforgivable
great video :D i like the thought at the end of the video these are gonna be some fun years for the fandom !
In so many fandoms I enjoyed the hiatus periods between seasons or sequels the most and I'm so glad I actively joined the GO fandom after S2! (I really loved S1 but too many things were happening in my life around that time, I did not participate in this fandom at all.)
Thank you for making these thought provoking videos! :3
I always enjoy and learn things from your videos, enriching details I NEVER would have spotted. Thank you! I did spot an error in this one - Don’t ask for whom the bell tolls is from “No Man is an Island,” by John Donne; Hemingway quoted it for the title of his novel.
Quite right, my mistake!
omg??? absolutely loved this and excited to see more of this-definitely something i’ve been thinking about since “the angel you knew, isn’t me”.
also he still calls out for Her (God) with familiarity which is so so sad
It is. I feel like he must have spoken to her in the beginning. They all must have.
Even when abandoned he turn towards her which is interesting since he doesn’t seem to want to go back to her side. He was definitely created to play a certain role, consider chess pieces like referred in the monologue in the beginning of the series?
I am so happy I found this! I sometimes don't notice these!! Thanks!
Don't feel bad, Mattpad was really good at these! Yours is still really good, had fun watching it!
There’s a theory floating around that Crowley fell so that he’d be in a position to protect Aziraphale from harm. I’m personally a huge fan of this theory.
Great analysis as always. Theorising on Crowley’s fall is always interesting to me because I believe that someone like Crowley never really belongs in Good Omens’ heaven. Crowley is, IMO, like a Jewish (here I meant it as someone who follows Judaism, please CMIIW) forced into living in Christian heaven. His belief is that god is a peer (as he describes in the beginning, that he “works very closely with upstairs”) and therefore he is expected to argue/challenge god when he thinks god is wrong (giving suggestions to the suggestion box).
That is a problem if this god is indeed based on Christian god, in that she expects complete obedience and no questioning, something that is against Crowley’s very nature. While I do agree that cursing god is probably an unforgivable sin, I think that Crowley’s biggest “sin” is that all his “questions” are actually posed as challenges to god. Crowley doesn’t just ask questions e.g. “why are you testing them to destruction?”, he wanted to tell god what to do e.g. “you shouldn’t test them to destruction.”.
Anyway, sorry for the long comment. This is just one of the topics that I love thinking about so I can't help but post my own opinion :)
I also thought it was a huge clue when Bildad busted in like that, as if he knew something about it and had some experience dealing with exactly that situation. But he also seemed to have cursed God Before the Beginning when he called God's plan "idiocy," and said, "if he were the one running it all," and as we know, that's a big spiritual nope to entertain such an idea. Crowley may have cursed God again to her face when he did ask whatever questions, too, which we haven't seen (yet). But I also noticed that in S1 when he's at his flat, looking in the big book of Astronomy to figure out a place to go, even just him shouting up to God that he thinks God "shouldn't test humans to destruction," is technically actively rebelling. So, while he's shouting to God that he "only ever asked questions; that's all it took to be a demon in the old days," he's still doing acts of rebellion in the next sentence by saying God shouldn't be doing whatever God is doing and basically making judgements on God's actions.
Even tho it's not necessarily related to the GO universe, it's fun to read about some of the lore that has influenced the way we think about and investigate things like GO. I've been dabbling in Demonology, specifically about fallen angels, (not all demons were angels once, apparently) and one of the things I learned is that there's an unknown/unnamed Surrogate of Satan (demon acting on Satan's behalf?) who appeared as the Serpent to Eve in a text called Genesis B. So that might be worth looking into.
And also the fathers of the Nephilim, who apparently were led by Azazel, was a time that a great swathe of Angels fell, so I've been kind of looking into those stories, too. I gotta say, it's a pretty fun hobby. The stories are from the book of Enoch, of course, the book of Giants, and book of Jubilee, where some of the Nephilim became earthbound demons, so they never were Angels altho their fathers were. And according to those texts, the reason for the flood was because of the Nephilim, and it's basically the missing details of what happened in Genesis we know. That's all I'll say about that lmao.
Oooh, very interesting!!
My understanding is that Satan/Lucifer and the Devil are not originally even the same character, and later biblical translations conflated the two. Bart Ehrman is a great resource on what actual biblical scholars believe.
Well done! I love this series, and your ideas speak to a good deal of questions I have. Subscribed :)
Thank you! 🙏
Another great video! One thing that’s been bothering me though. Before they leave for Heaven, why does the Metatron ask Aziraphale if there is anything he needs to take with him if they don’t have material objects in Heaven? Everything the Metatron says is carefully & deliberately designed to ensnare Aziraphale back to Heaven but thIs just seems odd. He knows he’s pretty much succeeded by this point so why say this? Is he just mocking Aziraphale by pointing out that he should never really have loved his earthly pleasures (& Crowley) if he was a ‘proper angel’ or is it more of a definite final goodbye to everything he once defied Heaven to have? It’s not as if he really lets Aziraphale have a choice in keeping it. He’s already given the bookshop to Muriel before this (also why keep the bookshop? Pretty sure it could easily stop being an Angelic embassy if they wanted it to so why keep it? That’s pretty much asking for trouble especially if Crowley is still allowed to enter) so why specifically ask if there is anything he wants to keep? It’s a dangerous tactic because it nearly backfires as Aziraphale nearly changes his mind (we see him constantly look towards the window where we assume Crowley is standing & then Aziraphale actually almost voices his change of heart) I’m very likely reading way too much into it. I don’t know. It’s something so small but it’s really bothering me lol.
This is just a guess on my part, but I think the Metatron was just trying to continue his friendly facade --- act like he cared about the things Aziraphale cared about in order to more easily manipulate him. The Metatron wanted Aziraphale to feel like he was being given choices and agency even as he was rushing him out the door and onto the elevator.
@@supremeoverlorde2109I agree but considering everything up to this point has been carefully scripted to appeal to Aziraphale (the words he uses like piffle & balderdash & directly addressing Crowley) this just seems like a risk the Metatron didn’t need to take. Because it nearly backfires. Aziraphale was in a state of intense emotional distress when the Metatron entered that bookshop (after Crowley leaves) & it would have been much more efficient to have comforted him in a way that got him out of the bookshop as soon as possible. Because he asks if he’s ready to go when they are by the lift as well. It’s the choice to let him linger in the bookshop that confuses me. To me all it does is reinforce that the Metatron doesn’t quite understand what he’s taking away from Aziraphale & absolutely will come back to bite him in the proverbial ass.
@@palinite I think it probably will. I fully believe he's underestimating the strength of Aziraphale's connection to his time on Earth and to Crowley --- and his own sense of individuality, for that matter.
The thing about Aziraphale is that while he finds himself conflicted at times, he ultimately tends to do what he believes in his heart is right, even if it doesn't jive with Heaven's goals. He's not just going to roll over and take it if he doesn't like what he sees with the Second Coming plans.
I recall reading that the unforgivable sin was not cursing God so much as turning one's back on grace. Which would suggest that it's not really unforgivable so long as the individual is willing to turn back. Be interesting to see if this concept plays out in the show.
Of course there are many re-interpretations of the Bible, and as many takes on the meaning as there are denominations.
So yes, it could be denying grace.
If Aziraphale, as Supreme Archangel, would have the power to "appoint" Crowley to be an angel, who "appointed" the rebellious angels to fall and become demons? We assume it was God, but what if it was just the victors casting out the defeated? What if God's ineffable plan is just watching all this play out? Maybe she's hoping/ betting her scattered angels will use their free will and come together again.
Love this idea!
Both heaven and hell have rejected Crowley and so has Aziraphale. It seems his brain works differently than other angels and demons. Maybe this is why lovely Aziraphale says he forgives him, but never really does.
Another amazing, thought-provoking video, thank you! Your theory makes total sense. I only wonder where Crowley's loss of memory comes from, and how much he has indeed forgotten. Or forced out of is memory? He doesn't seem to remember so many things. We'll hopefully learn in S3! By the way, thanks for sharing your postive attitude and the fun it actually is to speculate and discuss. Haven't seen it this way before and it really is ❤
That is a topic of massive fan speculation that I don't have a good answer for!
@@Sendarya So we're back to: Wait and see! And we know how irritating THAT is. 😅
i was raised in the catholic church. i have a lot of trauma, and I relate to both crowly and azi in different ways. i just felt like saying that. haha.
It's really good to share that kind of experience. A lot of Good Omens fans have a similar experience. I am sorry you went through that kind of religious trauma :(
What I noticed just now rewatching the conversation between the ineffable husbands before the earth is that depending it seems to me that whose wings are darker switches in each frame. That could of course just be down to the unusual lighting in that scene but if we assume that the grey of Crowley’s wings is significant then I believe this could be an indication that while Crowley fell and Aziraphale didn’t, Aziraphale also had his first questions at the time but was more scared (maybe even because sb said sth to him?) and more faithful. It could mean both of them had the same thought process in this scene but came away with different conclusions.
I also think that after Crowley went off to ask his questions he might have ended up in the same situation as Aziraphale in S1, namely talking to the Metatron instead of God and therefore not being able to properly ask his questions, let alone get an answer. This might be what Leads to him being frustrated and cursing God for not even having time for anyone to ask questions/give constructive criticism.
Another theory/hope I have for season three is that all the character from season one and two will come back to go out with a bang. With all the hints that the third season could take place in parts in the USA brings me to the conclusion that it might include Warlock as well. It could also mean Anathema, since she was American, and although most people assume she and Newt stayed in Tatfield I don’t think it was ever confirmed, they might have gone back to the states.
It also just makes sense for Crowley to seek comfort in the few contacts he still has among humans now that everything is different due to Aziraphale being gone. I can imagine the first episode having Crowley and Aziraphale entirely separate from one another and learning how co-dependent they really are.
But I don’t know, just a thought I had watching this video. Thanks for making it, btw, it’s always great fun to watch your videos and I appreciate the effort you put into them!
Brilliant analysis! Love your video. Keep going.
Thank you!
Perhaps blasphemy against the soul is a metaphor for betraying oneself. Betraying who you are at your core. And perhaps it is "unforgivable" in the sense that God cannot forgive you, for you have not betrayed God, only yourself, and thus only you can forgive the transgression.
Perhaps Crowley isn't an unreliable narrator because he is lying to himself in the sense of truly knowing and misrepresenting the truth, perhaps he is like Jobe, who has "sinned so greatly to deserve all this, and not even know why." It's why he is still shrouded in darkness, still a demon, despite seemingly doing good things, and perhaps even "playing his part" in the ineffable plan. He believes himself to be unforgivable, because God has not forgiven him. And so it will be, until he can forgive himself. The primary issue there is that he seemingly doesn't know /what/ he has to forgive himself for.
I wonder if in the moment his wings first darkened, what he truly wanted to do was shout at the sky "Are you fucking serious?!?" -- but because of his role as an Angel, and because of the queues from Aziraphale, he was afraid of God's wrath, and thus suppressed/betrayed himself to say "Oh well that seems like a shame doesn't it?" Perhaps God does want questions, and does want other perspectives, but perhaps what God values is each person's genuine self. Perhaps God doesn't want you to wear a mask, to tone down your true feelings. Maybe she just wants you. The real you, the true you.
You're amazing too.
Yes, I do agree that you're mad as a hatter, and that is the most superior compliment that I could give you.
Also thank you for doing all of that, I'm not one of those very perceptive people, so if you didn't do all of this, I would miss most of those beautiful details that truly create good omens. After watching all of your videos I'm able to go back and re-watch good omens in a completely different way, see the things that I did not see before.
Once again thank you for gathering all of us here.
❤
Well, I'm blushing, thank you so much for the lovely compliments. Thank you for being here!
watching this made me so much more hyped for season 3!! i never originally noticed the graying of crowleys wings. well. ok. i noticed but i thought it was just some weird effect of the nebulae being cast onto his wings or something. but seeing that scene play out again with your explanation of your theory. it makes so much sense. i definitely believe that moment was the first step in his long saunter downward. everything about how the acting and music and visual effects and- i could go on forever lol- everything about how that moment was laid out made it clear it was (likely? probably? definitely?) an incredibly important moment to the story -- of crowley, of aziraphale, and of their story together. ..... i lost my train of thought but before i post this comment i gotta say i absolutely love the idea of seeing the fall through aziraphale's pov while hes working in heaven. whatever story there is between metatron and crowley, im hoping that will be shown through aziraphales pov as well. especially if it brings them back together again 😭😭😭 anways- this was an awesome theory and its made me want to rewatch the first two seasons again with it in mind......and because i love having an excuse to rewatch it over and over and over and over and over- 😅
I'm been waiting for someone do this though! Thank you
Someone suggested in the comments (can’t find it) that Aziraphale must have had a high position because he knew about Earth and people early on. I actually think Aziraphale had a very low position, possibly as a messenger, flitting from one department to another, glancing at everything and chatting innocently with everyone.
I think Crowley’s position might be analogous to architect or city planner, designing the larger structures and mechanisms of the universe, but not involved in how the structures will be used. This would also explain why they don’t know each other even if Crowley were high up. Crowley was in a narrow technical field and he wasn’t a public figure even though his job was very important.
what u said about the time between season 2 and 3 is right and it really put it in a new perspective for me❤
Thank you! I really enjoy your videos! 😊
My pleasure 😊
I have to believe that Aziraphale going by the name Fell is a clue. to what I dont know. I also keep coming back to Crowleys lack of details/memory. something happened there. I am excited by what season 3 will tell us and to how wrong I probably am...
as a side note its believed the modern version. of angels with wings transpired because the work of the ancient Egyptians and winged gods went mainstream. but you have to admit, wings look so good on people. western artists should have thought of it too!
and thanks for all your work. its so fun!
I believe that A. Z. Fell is just a derivation from Aziraphale, phale and fell sounds the same.
Yes! My partner in crime for this essay, actually noted the Egyptian God link. She wrote her own separate essay, as well. All religions borrow from those that came before.
If you notice when they are speaking when Crowley is questioning things both angels wings turn a little darker, Crowley’s wings turn end up staying darker, I think it is because he keeps questioning. I do think the theory is sound for the upcoming season.
Excellent point, their wings both get sort of mottled for a moment. I hadn't thought of it that way!
Excellent, I like your theory about Crowleys fall, could really be possible. But one question on this. If there is no forgiveness for falling angels, how could Aziraphale return Crowley back to Heaven (if that wasn’t only a trick from the Metatron)?
And I thought about the color changing of Crowleys wings. I also recognized this, but didn’t understand that as a sign of faith lost. For me it was always a sign of emotions, because the Wings also shown the joy when Crowley fulfilled the nebula. And Neils statement on this isn’t that clear. That certainly indicates that the wings of demons turns into black after the fall. But my theory could also be wrong, who knows… except Neil 😉
Certainly, it could be sadness and loss! That's a good theory :)
So demons can change their wing form however they want (Beelzebub one is fly wings, Satan's is bat wings) but Crowley chooses to keep the feathery angelic one, just in different colour. I bet some demon that got to know his wing form would sneer at him because to them feathery wings are a symbol of the past and of the angel bastards they don't have fond memories of. He keeps them anyway.
I'm not saying Crowley wants to be an angel again. He also doesn't like being a demon either. It's probably some effort of him to symbolize how he was still the same being he was even after the Fall, albeit a little mix of black - the death of his innocence, like you said
(he probably still like the feathery feature so he keeps it) (maybe the reason Aziraphale was so surprised at him in Eden was because he kept the wings unlike other demons)
I would love to see Beelzabub with fly wings next season! Pretty iridescent green 🪽 wings
Omg that clip of Aziraphale wacinf in the mirror at the very beginning, where is that from?
It's in episode 5, just after he possesses Madam Tracy. She goes to her kitchen to make tea, and she looks in the mirror on her vanity, and sees Aziraphale, and he waves at her. :)
Thank you!
Cursing God and die is a nod to the actual biblical story where she said to Job "bless God and die" - which has two meanings - one is actually keep blessing God like you do and you'll die (since he already lost everything and the next thing is God taking his soul as well).
The second meaning is that the word bless was a changed from "curse" (it is very unacceptable to write or say curse God in the bible) so actually she asks him to just finish the suffering and die by cursing God. It was a punishment back at biblical times.
So I do not think because Crowley cursed God..
Crowley’s fall is like ours. When we make mistakes it’s hard to accept that we maybe the villain in our own story.
He is definitely in denial about whatever he did wrong.
Thank you for making this video.
I don't think I ever loved a theory as much as this one ❤
Well thank you!! ❤️
Oh my.... I was waiting for this one ❤o❤
Вы проделал колосальную работу, но не совсеми вашими выводами могу согласится. Например, "лебединая верность" это все таки из легенд (просто символ любой верности - выбора, стороны, принадлежности, убеждений). А в природе лебедь найходит себе другую пару. Или в сцене под звездами, когда встретились Азирафаэль и Кроули, есть момент, когда сереют крылья у Азирафаэля (он тогда испуган), так что изменение цвета крыльев - может быть и отражением сильной негативной эмоции (страха, разочарования, обиды, уныния), и просто игрой света от рождения звёзд. И ещё во 2 сезоне - Кроули имел высший доступ, как у Архангела, поэтому смог посмотреть документы по "делу" Габриэля (6 эпизод). И на записи заседания на предложение, что Габриэль должен Пасть, Метатрон ответил - нельзя так как Та сторона поймёт, что у них системная ошибка. И здесь возникает вопрос, о ком говорит Глас Божий - Сатана восстал против Бога, как и часть Ангелов, но Сатана не был Архангелом (и не во всех текстах Сатана=Люцифер), к тому же Ада тогда ещё не было. Так о ком говорят? О Люцифере или ещё о каком-то Архангеле? Участие Кроули в войне, с моей точки зрения, тоже под вопросом, так как он не сторонник насилия - и пока его не прижать, он будет пытаться избежать применения силы, он даже стрелять не умел (2 сезон, фокус Поймай пулю зубами). А вот если Кроули загнать в угол, то он такой креатив выдаст, защищаясь - здесь и использование святой воды, и проезд через адское пламя (М25, 1 сезон), когда он развоплотил Хастура, и выпить вместо девушки смертельную дозу опиумной настойки (кладбище в Шотландии, переубедить не получалось). Так что Кроули пал или разочаровавшись в Небесах, отказавшись от них, или он та самая системная ошибка, неудобный ангел (а многих не устраивают профессионалы), от которого решили избавиться Небеса, отправив его Вниз.
My sibling noted that the last episode of s2 could be very similar to the fall- reaching but hear me out. The base of this analogy is the bookshop. Ppl invite others somewhere, some meeting/event (interestingly there is some sort of miracle to influence everyone- “no long faces, I just want you young people having fun”- idk exactly wht that could mean but it is ominous) and they find out that it isn’t exactly wht it seems- less meeting more dance, if u get my drift. After this, characters talk and do something that they thought they couldn’t do (dancing, in this case, I would be interested to know how Az and Crows relationship continues prefall bcs this could be a parallel in their relationship that makes the analogy more fitting). The interesting part is after the dance, when suddenly there is an interruption from an outside force, demons (could this mean a riot or something?). At this point, we can assume this is the war or some major conflict in Heaven, to which there is importance in Az and Crow’s actions. Az defends the bookshop by literally discorperating beings, which could be symbolic of the fall. That being said, their action afterwards of using their halo, something literally done during the war, could say that this is still in the war section of pre fall. Moving on to Crow, we see them herding people at the meeting out to safety, leaving this place to go elsewhere. We can assume that in this analogy that means Crow goes somewhere or tries to protect someone/something, though this is where the analogy has contrast because Az and Crow are there to protect people this time, unlike the lack of protection in what ever occured prefall- therefore why there isn’t a fall in this analogy, bcs Az and Crow are there to protect and defend people. Anyway, Crow goes up to Heaven and look through files, finding something that he doesn’t expect, which could be something that Crow does prefall- she finds something unpleasant in the Heavenly files that makes them lose faith entirely. Notably, Crow could symbolize a diff being in that moment, with Muriel being more representative of their angelic self. This means Crow could hv been influenced by another being, Lucifier and the guys, to look at these files- which is discovered and punished by another Angel (Saraquel in this case- though not punished, fortunately for Muriel). Anyway, eventually they are back down on earth, to the meeting place/war, where it is found that the demons have lost, just as they do in the war. That is when everyone starts to discuss punishments and such around the book of life. We can assume after this would be the fall, using the book of life to rewrite names and such. Anyway, blurry analogy and defiantly not well explained but it does give some possible shape to wht occurred prefall. The terrifying part is the idea that the rest of the episode could be parallel prefall as well, plus it WOULD MAKE THEIR CONVERSATION IN PLACEMENT OF WHERE THE FALL IS, which symbolically is devastating. Anyway, thanks if you read all my rambling. Have a great day y’all!
Very interesting ideas!
I had to come back to make another comment after thinking about your video again...I wonder if Crowley fell while he was saving Aziraphale's assss in one of their innocent turns insane capers...look how many times he showed up in the nick of time....I did watch this whole season 2 after your commentary...again, well done. After all he's 'an angel".
This all sounds very plausible! Personally, I think it's hilarious that Aziraphale is so scared of anyone finding out he's lied - God is the Almighty, omniscient and omnipresent in nature, don't you think your lies were seen, angel? God's just not bothered by them, cause, apparently, in the grand scheme of things, they don't mess with the ineffable plan! 🤣
Random thought? what about Saraquels coller being gray in the bookshop. She seems to be tolerant of crowley in heaven, even letting him watch the trial and first to notice the Megatron. Just thinking, has she also started to lose her innocence and started to fall???
Interesting idea! I had not noticed her collar being grey in the bookshop!
Saraquel and Muriel are the only other angels I've noticed with tartan in their costumes. I wonder if this isn't foreshadowing them being allies with Aziraphale in heaven somehow.