At the 3:00 mark you were talking about "maintenance" issue with hinge cutting. I am not sure that I understand why this is a problem. For me, I am hinge cutting more for side cover than for browse. The tops are definitely browsed.....for a while, until, like you said, once they get above reach. But then, by this time, the hinge cut has served its purpose for the couple of years it was in place. Instead of trimming the uprights off of the "hinged tree", I just stump cut the tree to the ground. The lay down tree is STILL PROVIDING my side cover, and the tops of those "upright limbs" will now be browsed, AND, the stump will send up shoots for browse. This is MY idea of hinge cutting maintenance and it works for me.
It all depends on what you are trying to do and the types of trees you are dealing with. Hinge cutting does suck, but most of the time you have to do things that suck to get your desired results in life.
The type of trees you have on your property should determine what you do with them. I have mostly boxelder. They might be the best tree to hinge. I would much rather have them laying on their side then standing dead (hack and squirt). You will have the instant food/cover aswell as sunlight for new growth on the woods floor. It doesn't take long to walk through with a chainsaw a few years down the road to open up travel corridors.
I agree with you. The point of the video was to offer a method for people who aren’t comfortable with a chainsaw. Or think they are but in reality, have little experience.
I agree hinge cutting can be dangerous. I would not hinge cut large trees. My problem with hack and squirt is sometimes it doesn't work. Do you have a favorite herbicide for hack and squirt? Normally, if it's a larger tree, I would double girdle and spray instead of hinge cutting but I would often prefer to hinge cut smaller trees to get them out of the canopy and create false ceilings.
Make sure you aren’t mixing the herbicide with water. If it’s a large tree, like you mentioned, you’re better off “hacking” 2-3 times or girdling into it like you mentioned.
If I'm ever giving advice about using herbicide, I throw in the legal disclaimer "always follow the instructions on the herbicide label. It's a violation of law not to follow the directions on the label."
Talking about danger let's have trees in your woods that could fall at anytime. You also gave no good reason not to hinge cut. I think you are giving bad advice.
He said maintenance. Its 100% true. Unless your managing micro areas theres no time for going back in to maintain hinge cut trees. Deal with them once and move on. Change the understory for decades with a little herbicide on the low value species. You can drop em and treat em if you dont like the standing dead wood.
Ok, so you said obviously you don't hinge cut conifer. It's not obvious to me, can you not hinge conifer?. What is the plan with a mostly planted conifer/pine woods? Can other stuff grow up if you open up the canopy? Thanks
Love the question! You cannot hinge conifers. There will be no regrowth. That’s when flush cutting comes in handy. Pieces of property with large amount of conifers generally need cutting or logging. Depending on the type, there’s money to be made, especially in this given timber market
Hinge cutting is not a means of timber stand improvement at all. As in, not in any form whatsoever. Hinge cutting is most generally done too heavy and incorrectly. When done correctly, it takes little maintenance. Hack and squirt will fill a woods with dead trees in the future and deter the deer from bedding in it when they begin to fall. As a timber buyer and a whitetail habitat manager, I wouldn't recommend hack and squirt practice to anyone. And would only recommend Hinge cutting to a 20 or 30 percent of folks out there. Neither though is a timber stand improvement. TSI and Habitat improvement are not the same and they shouldn't be confused. But when done correctly, they can coincide at times.
I would rather cut or hinge it the tree. We have a lot of dead Ash trees from the emerald ash borer and every windstorm it seems one is coming down. I have to watch out for ash trees around stand locations. Logging can be an option but ash tree prices have dropped due to the borer turning the wood more gray, you might as well log just log it in the first place or there isn’t enough value to log. Now what I don’t like about hinge cutting is in my case I’ve made a tangled mess that deer can’t easily navigate. This winter I’ll be chunking up section of the hinge cuts to hopefully make it more passable!
Every situation is different. But i definitely agree on the ash trees. Theyre known to break off from the top down naturally. Add in the emerald ash borer and it’s game over.
I never have to hinge cut anything. There's stuff down needs cut and I make blinds for the deer and nesting inside. You can use logs to rack up little log walls and even TP shaped lodges. They really take to especially these deer that are used to me here on the farm. No bucks in this valley yet he stays on the other side in his little harem territory. But he eats some of these good deer block I'll give him a handful every now and then. He lets me get up to about 15 ft to him and I take pictures. He's a beauty 2-year-old 6 point. I've studied the deer intensely for the past couple years more so and start to recognize their dang faces if you can believe that. Each one has a little bit of a different look. They don't know that I'm watching them oftentimes and the antics they do of jealousy between these nests. I had to make more deer nests! 🤗🤩😆
Statistically speaking, what’s more likely... Getting injured while cutting a tree or walking in the woods and one randomly falls on you? I never said to hack and squirt a 30 inch tree.
Hi, a 10 lb chunk of a 6" tree falling from 20 feet is going 35 FPS. If it hits you in the head that's not going to be good. Dead trees and/or dead tree limbs are a huge cause of injury and death for arborist. Any time you leave "dead stuff" with potential energy in the air, you INCREASE your chances of getting hurt by them when under them or trying to cut them down. There "statistically" is way less risk when just cutting down the live tree! "Widow Maker" = "any loose overhead debris that can fall at any time" You never want to make widow-makers. Period. Have a good day.
Nobody is referring to 6” trees here. And where the cut is made, the tree splits in two, pops up, and could hit somebody who watches youtube videos and has no actual experience. That’s the point of this. And at no point did I ever say to hack and squirt a 30 inch tree did I? Your entitled to your opinion, but at the end of the day, if world renown deer biologist recommends these tsi improvements, I would probably trust him over anybody in youtube comments.
And one last thing, even if you did hack and squirt a large tree... The amount of coincidence that would have to take place for you to be walking under a tree as a branch falls, would be astronomical. These cuts are made in bedding areas, when are you ever walking in your bedding areas? Familiar with ash trees? Where I’m from, that tree is a 1000 more times likely to drop widow makers while cutting it or disturbing it. This is all for education at the end of the day, if you choose a different tsi method that’s fine. But it never hurts to know more then less. Opinions are only that, opinions.
@@whitetaillandmanagement Hi...well from my experience most people who manage bedding areas do so every year. And what do they often do? Cut down or hinge cut more trees. Hack and squirter im my opinion is a waste of time. If you want the tree dead, cut it down. But if your missing a good potential browse source, you should be hinge cutting it anyway. Way waste a resource? I would speculate if you ask 100 seasoned foresters about hack and squirt and leaving potential widow makers up, 99/100 say "don't do that". It my opinion all things considered putting them down or hinge cutting is just a lot better option that do not leave a potentially dangerous scenario. What are odds of widow makers falling? In my 50 years I have been in the woods and witnessed several "drops". No they were not right over my head. But why create potential dangerous situations? Its just not a wise decision considering my other points.
I don’t think many of y’all realize just how long a tree will stand when it’s dead, ash and pines are not a good choice to leave standing but hickory’s and poor oaks won’t dry out for 30 years
I don't hinge cut I use what's laying around and machete some limbs here and there I place the woodland grass as a nest in the middle of the hide. I leave plenty of visuals for the deer to see predators and to watch themselves as they rest. They beat each other's body language very well, and they also grunt for alerts. Some of my hives actually have limbs over top where I have stuck some thick plastic as a bit of a roof. I need more nests now because the does and their babies are getting jealous of these nice beddings. I watch them a lot and see them interactions. It is amazing and oftentimes very funny, how these yearlings communicate and play with each other. I should film this stuff for YT. but I don't. Some of these yearlings I have seen them every day since the day they were born and one in particular is very used to me and she just recently lost her spots and is starting to turn gray. She's gorgeous her name is Gloria, cuz one day I saw her staring into the small pond as the water dripped and made rings and the water and she stared at it for 5 minutes without moving, it was glorious. So I named her Gloria LOL
Question: If you Hack and Spray you'll get cover but won't it only be good for the summer? It will be dead in the fall (Michigan) and it produces no cover and no food. I'm sure over time you'll get some trees that will produce browse but that will take time. If you hinge cut you have food immediately, cover immediately, and you just have to tend to it every couple of years. Thoughts? I like your videos and appreciate the feedback.
You’ll get natural cover every year from the canopy being open. Just because there isnt leaf cover doesn’t mean there isn’t food. There will still be tons of browse at the deers level. Hinge cutting isn’t bad necessarily and it does offer immediate cover. Just not the answer for every property.
@@TheBucklandgrp . Do yourself a favor and don't hack and squirt anything in your woods bud.. it's a piss poor practice and shouldn't be done anywhere. Harvest mature timber, then do your screening and such with the smaller trees if still needed. Always but the biggest trees first.
@@whitetaillandmanagementif logging isn't an option, then my guess would be that there is enough sunlight already creating high stem count resulting in need of no hinge cutting nor hack and squirt. If canopy is too big, cut your pockets in accordingly. Then lay the side cover down my methodically hinging certain trees. Hack and squirt creates basically the same situation that is present in most areas with the dead ash trees. They are dead standing and very unpredictable. We as humans don't feel comfortable walking through those areas and deer don't feel comfortable bedding in those areas. As far as your deer biologists, I would be willing to have this discussion or argument, whatever you want to call it, with anyone who in which has experience in all these matters and practices. You can't do these practices one or two years and think it's figured out. You have to see what happens in these places years later after the work is done bud. Regardless of which practices you use or want to defend. I don't recommend a lot of hinging to most of my clients for several reasons. But I would definitely use that over hack and squirt about 99 percent of the time.
Instead of "hack and squirt" and using a herbicide, why not just pounds some copper nails into the base of the tree to kill it? Have you ever tried that?
Not a deer guy. Just interested in land management. I don't see how making a tree barber chair on purpose is safe. And I don't get why you would just kill trees to leave them standing. I think cutting the tree down properly is the best call.
At the 3:00 mark you were talking about "maintenance" issue with hinge cutting.
I am not sure that I understand why this is a problem.
For me, I am hinge cutting more for side cover than for browse. The tops are definitely browsed.....for a while, until, like you said, once they get above reach.
But then, by this time, the hinge cut has served its purpose for the couple of years it was in place.
Instead of trimming the uprights off of the "hinged tree", I just stump cut the tree to the ground.
The lay down tree is STILL PROVIDING my side cover, and the tops of those "upright limbs" will now be browsed, AND, the stump will send up shoots for browse.
This is MY idea of hinge cutting maintenance and it works for me.
It all depends on what you are trying to do and the types of trees you are dealing with. Hinge cutting does suck, but most of the time you have to do things that suck to get your desired results in life.
Love the perspective of this channel
Don't you still have to manage the browse once sunlight hits the ground either way? Where are the deer bedding with open dead timber?
The type of trees you have on your property should determine what you do with them. I have mostly boxelder. They might be the best tree to hinge. I would much rather have them laying on their side then standing dead (hack and squirt). You will have the instant food/cover aswell as sunlight for new growth on the woods floor. It doesn't take long to walk through with a chainsaw a few years down the road to open up travel corridors.
I agree with you. The point of the video was to offer a method for people who aren’t comfortable with a chainsaw. Or think they are but in reality, have little experience.
@@whitetaillandmanagement hack and squirt is not for people who don’t know how to use a chainsaw.. it’s for people who value their time. Great vid!
It would concern me what this meant for my grand children in years come when these standing dead trees turn into the widow makers you referenced.
In SW wisconsin what is the best time of year to hack and squirt or what is bad time to hack and squirt?
I agree hinge cutting can be dangerous. I would not hinge cut large trees. My problem with hack and squirt is sometimes it doesn't work. Do you have a favorite herbicide for hack and squirt? Normally, if it's a larger tree, I would double girdle and spray instead of hinge cutting but I would often prefer to hinge cut smaller trees to get them out of the canopy and create false ceilings.
Make sure you aren’t mixing the herbicide with water. If it’s a large tree, like you mentioned, you’re better off “hacking” 2-3 times or girdling into it like you mentioned.
If I'm ever giving advice about using herbicide, I throw in the legal disclaimer "always follow the instructions on the herbicide label. It's a violation of law not to follow the directions on the label."
Talking about danger let's have trees in your woods that could fall at anytime. You also gave no good reason not to hinge cut. I think you are giving bad advice.
He said maintenance. Its 100% true. Unless your managing micro areas theres no time for going back in to maintain hinge cut trees. Deal with them once and move on. Change the understory for decades with a little herbicide on the low value species. You can drop em and treat em if you dont like the standing dead wood.
Ok, so you said obviously you don't hinge cut conifer. It's not obvious to me, can you not hinge conifer?. What is the plan with a mostly planted conifer/pine woods? Can other stuff grow up if you open up the canopy? Thanks
Love the question! You cannot hinge conifers. There will be no regrowth. That’s when flush cutting comes in handy. Pieces of property with large amount of conifers generally need cutting or logging. Depending on the type, there’s money to be made, especially in this given timber market
What about hinge cutting for steering deer traffic?
I’m not opposed to that at all!
Until a storm hits and you’ve got old ring barked trees scattered about…
Hinge cutting is not a means of timber stand improvement at all. As in, not in any form whatsoever. Hinge cutting is most generally done too heavy and incorrectly. When done correctly, it takes little maintenance. Hack and squirt will fill a woods with dead trees in the future and deter the deer from bedding in it when they begin to fall. As a timber buyer and a whitetail habitat manager, I wouldn't recommend hack and squirt practice to anyone. And would only recommend Hinge cutting to a 20 or 30 percent of folks out there. Neither though is a timber stand improvement. TSI and Habitat improvement are not the same and they shouldn't be confused. But when done correctly, they can coincide at times.
Elaborate on how it takes little maintenance? How do you keep a tree from sprouting?
I would rather cut or hinge it the tree. We have a lot of dead Ash trees from the emerald ash borer and every windstorm it seems one is coming down. I have to watch out for ash trees around stand locations. Logging can be an option but ash tree prices have dropped due to the borer turning the wood more gray, you might as well log just log it in the first place or there isn’t enough value to log.
Now what I don’t like about hinge cutting is in my case I’ve made a tangled mess that deer can’t easily navigate. This winter I’ll be chunking up section of the hinge cuts to hopefully make it more passable!
Every situation is different. But i definitely agree on the ash trees. Theyre known to break off from the top down naturally. Add in the emerald ash borer and it’s game over.
I never have to hinge cut anything. There's stuff down needs cut and I make blinds for the deer and nesting inside. You can use logs to rack up little log walls and even TP shaped lodges. They really take to especially these deer that are used to me here on the farm. No bucks in this valley yet he stays on the other side in his little harem territory. But he eats some of these good deer block I'll give him a handful every now and then. He lets me get up to about 15 ft to him and I take pictures. He's a beauty 2-year-old 6 point. I've studied the deer intensely for the past couple years more so and start to recognize their dang faces if you can believe that. Each one has a little bit of a different look. They don't know that I'm watching them oftentimes and the antics they do of jealousy between these nests. I had to make more deer nests! 🤗🤩😆
Ok so then hack n squirt leaves a bunch of widow makers standing....no thanks!
Statistically speaking, what’s more likely... Getting injured while cutting a tree or walking in the woods and one randomly falls on you? I never said to hack and squirt a 30 inch tree.
Hi, a 10 lb chunk of a 6" tree falling from 20 feet is going 35 FPS. If it hits you in the head that's not going to be good.
Dead trees and/or dead tree limbs are a huge cause of injury and death for arborist.
Any time you leave "dead stuff" with potential energy in the air, you INCREASE your chances of getting hurt by them when under them or trying to cut them down. There "statistically" is way less risk when just cutting down the live tree!
"Widow Maker" = "any loose overhead debris that can fall at any time"
You never want to make widow-makers. Period.
Have a good day.
Nobody is referring to 6” trees here. And where the cut is made, the tree splits in two, pops up, and could hit somebody who watches youtube videos and has no actual experience. That’s the point of this. And at no point did I ever say to hack and squirt a 30 inch tree did I? Your entitled to your opinion, but at the end of the day, if world renown deer biologist recommends these tsi improvements, I would probably trust him over anybody in youtube comments.
And one last thing, even if you did hack and squirt a large tree... The amount of coincidence that would have to take place for you to be walking under a tree as a branch falls, would be astronomical. These cuts are made in bedding areas, when are you ever walking in your bedding areas? Familiar with ash trees? Where I’m from, that tree is a 1000 more times likely to drop widow makers while cutting it or disturbing it.
This is all for education at the end of the day, if you choose a different tsi method that’s fine. But it never hurts to know more then less. Opinions are only that, opinions.
@@whitetaillandmanagement Hi...well from my experience most people who manage bedding areas do so every year. And what do they often do? Cut down or hinge cut more trees. Hack and squirter im my opinion is a waste of time. If you want the tree dead, cut it down. But if your missing a good potential browse source, you should be hinge cutting it anyway. Way waste a resource?
I would speculate if you ask 100 seasoned foresters about hack and squirt and leaving potential widow makers up, 99/100 say "don't do that".
It my opinion all things considered putting them down or hinge cutting is just a lot better option that do not leave a potentially dangerous scenario.
What are odds of widow makers falling? In my 50 years I have been in the woods and witnessed several "drops". No they were not right over my head. But why create potential dangerous situations? Its just not a wise decision considering my other points.
Sorry but spraying herbicides to kill your trees off is completely ridiculous
… and affective
Winner winner Chicken dinner! Great info! Thanks again
I don’t think many of y’all realize just how long a tree will stand when it’s dead, ash and pines are not a good choice to leave standing but hickory’s and poor oaks won’t dry out for 30 years
I don't hinge cut I use what's laying around and machete some limbs here and there I place the woodland grass as a nest in the middle of the hide. I leave plenty of visuals for the deer to see predators and to watch themselves as they rest. They beat each other's body language very well, and they also grunt for alerts. Some of my hives actually have limbs over top where I have stuck some thick plastic as a bit of a roof. I need more nests now because the does and their babies are getting jealous of these nice beddings. I watch them a lot and see them interactions. It is amazing and oftentimes very funny, how these yearlings communicate and play with each other. I should film this stuff for YT. but I don't. Some of these yearlings I have seen them every day since the day they were born and one in particular is very used to me and she just recently lost her spots and is starting to turn gray. She's gorgeous her name is Gloria, cuz one day I saw her staring into the small pond as the water dripped and made rings and the water and she stared at it for 5 minutes without moving, it was glorious. So I named her Gloria LOL
So you want to make widow makers, is that right?
Do it on the correct size tree and you won’t have that issue
Question: If you Hack and Spray you'll get cover but won't it only be good for the summer? It will be dead in the fall (Michigan) and it produces no cover and no food. I'm sure over time you'll get some trees that will produce browse but that will take time. If you hinge cut you have food immediately, cover immediately, and you just have to tend to it every couple of years. Thoughts? I like your videos and appreciate the feedback.
You’ll get natural cover every year from the canopy being open. Just because there isnt leaf cover doesn’t mean there isn’t food. There will still be tons of browse at the deers level. Hinge cutting isn’t bad necessarily and it does offer immediate cover. Just not the answer for every property.
@@risegrindoutdoors8609 With hack and spray the food/cover will be gone in the fall, right? But good for spring and summer only?
@@TheBucklandgrp . Do yourself a favor and don't hack and squirt anything in your woods bud.. it's a piss poor practice and shouldn't be done anywhere. Harvest mature timber, then do your screening and such with the smaller trees if still needed. Always but the biggest trees first.
Well some of the most world renown deer biologists would disagree with you. And what if logging isn’t an option?
@@whitetaillandmanagementif logging isn't an option, then my guess would be that there is enough sunlight already creating high stem count resulting in need of no hinge cutting nor hack and squirt. If canopy is too big, cut your pockets in accordingly. Then lay the side cover down my methodically hinging certain trees. Hack and squirt creates basically the same situation that is present in most areas with the dead ash trees. They are dead standing and very unpredictable. We as humans don't feel comfortable walking through those areas and deer don't feel comfortable bedding in those areas. As far as your deer biologists, I would be willing to have this discussion or argument, whatever you want to call it, with anyone who in which has experience in all these matters and practices. You can't do these practices one or two years and think it's figured out. You have to see what happens in these places years later after the work is done bud. Regardless of which practices you use or want to defend. I don't recommend a lot of hinging to most of my clients for several reasons. But I would definitely use that over hack and squirt about 99 percent of the time.
Liking all the good info
What's cool about this particular post are most of the comments are adult driven with common sense.
H&S method blows a bunch of dead trees standing what could go wrong
Instead of "hack and squirt" and using a herbicide, why not just pounds some copper nails into the base of the tree to kill it? Have you ever tried that?
Ill save you 5 minutes essentially hinge cutting sucks if you suck!
Hack and squirt only way to go.
I have never hinge cut
Doesn't work for me. I would much rather select cut or clear cut and use it for firewood or lumber.
Hack and squirt is much more dangerous than hinge cutting, in a couple of years dead branches can fall on you,,video sucks
Not a deer guy. Just interested in land management. I don't see how making a tree barber chair on purpose is safe. And I don't get why you would just kill trees to leave them standing. I think cutting the tree down properly is the best call.
I’m with you on this one. Bunch of trees in the woods dying from the top don’t sound like fun to me
I know nothing about this and that's okay
Keep that consistency coming!
True
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Did not help me. I need the trees gone.
Then bring in a logger
@@whitetaillandmanagement Trees are down. A neighbour with a mill hauled away the trunks and we are cleaning up the rest.
Two different goals…2 different practices, you are comparing apples to oranges
If you’re gonna be so soft about stuff being dangerous Don’t walk around your hack and squirt areas when the winds blowing 😂💀
My hopes are you walk in those areas. 🤡
100%
Too dangerous to hinge cut trees, but he’ll climb a tree to get into his stand.lol What a joke.
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Bla bla bla! Show us newbies how cut trees safely. It's like listening a radio show how to cut down a trees
Then you aren't doing it correctly
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