I have all white and black oak trees in my yard. I have had 8 cut down and have a least 20 more that I want gone. Im tired of all the acorns falling on my lawn. I have 14 acres of timber that I am working to clear all the small saplings in Cedar. I had never seen the chop and treat technique before. I have a lot of deer and turkey on my land. Now you have me interested in going and investigating the land more thoroughly. Thank you.
@9:09 Why the hell am I still watching this? I rent an apartment.....lol. Great video though. I learned something new. Maybe one day I'll have use for it. haha
Grant , I have about 60 acres of woods in south eastern Virginia. 40 acres were clear cut in 2008 and 5 in 2014. The property wasn’t replanted, only a few pines and Beech trees were left. The new growth is thick with a mix of White and red oak, water oak, maple, sweet gum, sycamore, black cherry, loblolly pine, American holly and sweet bay magnolia for the most part. Many trees are clumped close together and some growing out of old stumps. I want to terminate many trees to improve the habit for deer and turkey Which would you keep? When is the best time to hack & squirt ? The woodland is surrounded on all sides by crops and open fields. I don’t see many food opportunities in the woods to hold wildlife in the winter.
Randal - Congratulations on having land in a neat area! It's very tough to convert 10+ year old post clearcut stands into productive. There will most likely be 10's of ,1000's of stems of various tree species at your property. One option it to consider having the area site prepped and replaced with pines. This would allow you to created food plots exactly where they need to be, have a future crop of timber, etc. There's no one herbicide that terminates all the different tree species, A mix of 50% Garlon3A, 40% water, and 10% Arsenal AC will terminate the oaks, sweetgums, and hickories. It will literally take 10's of 1,000's of hacks to complete such a project and very little quality timber will result. However, if you like that type of work and wish to paint the canvas of your property, after the leaves are full shape and before their start turning color is the most effectively time to use the hack and squirt technique. grant
Love the videos ! You’re a wealth of knowledge. I have a question for long term tsi. I live in hill country upstate NY, primarily oaks , I’m going to get together with a timber guy from church to select cut/hack and squirt to get more undergrowth like you said … I believe it’s illegal to burn in NY so is there another method you suggest to clear the floor? I’d like to get more bedding also so do you recommend felling the trees in those areas over hack and squirt ?
Joe - Glad you are doing some habitat improvement work! Prescribe fire is a very important tool and it's a shame it's not legal in New York. I have several clients there that can't manage their habitat to its fullest potential due to not being able to use prescribed fire. You may need to use herbicide to spot treat invasive species after the canopy is opened.
Best video I have seen on this topic, curious on the shoots coming out of stumps though….. I have read and watched info that those are a great thing to have because of all the leafy greens sprouting out at deer head height, can you shed light on this thought, thank you
Sprouts from a few tree species like winged elm and some maples are palatable to deer and include a higher than average mineral content. However, they are still a woody crop - with a large part being non-digestible and become less so as they mature. Many, many wild forbs that such sprouts shade our are MUCH higher quality nutrition for deer. The biggest deer always are harvested in areas where a lot of sun reaches the soil in some portion of their home range.
@@GrowingDeerTV what is effective way to kill stumps with sprouts with exception of grubbing them out, large black walnut, and oak in particular, can the herbicide mixture be used directly on top since the entire circulatory system of tree is exposed?
Eric - That depends on how it's managed and what species are present. By varying the timing of prescribed fires, there will be a wide variety of species, some of which stand well during the winter. The quality of food produced during the summer and the improved health of the herd trump wooden structure during the winter.
Hi grant, is there no use for firewood in your area. I select cut my woods and love the stump sprouts as both deer and moose love to browse them. My woodstove is a great herbicide!!thanks for sharing
Waters - I've offered firewood to many and we terminate more trees that folks wish to cut for wood. If we didn't treat the stumps, they'd create a jungle way taller than deer can reach and shade out better quality habitat.
Keith - I never prescribed hinge cutting. The limbs on a hinge cut tree will quickly (two years or so) grow out of the reach of a deer to compete for the sun's energy. This creates a shaded out mess below the hinge cut tree. There's no native habitat that is like the results of hinge cut areas. The best deer hunting areas - the prairie states of Iowa, etc., have forage, not limbs. Native grasses and forbs make much better cover and food than hinge cut trees.
Is it possible to harvest the trees you want to remove and treat the stumps in the same way to prevent sprouting? That way we can get maximum return on all the timber we fell rather than just letting it rot on the ground. Thanks.
If there's a market the trees can and should be harvested. However, stumps need to be treated within minutes or the sap will keep herbicide from entering the tree.
Great information. But what do you do when there is a large amount of Honey Suckle around your property. I'm sure if I were to thin out the canopy the Honey Suckle would take over.
Michael - You are correct and it's best to terminate the honeysuckle as it's very invasive! There may be EQIP funding through the NRCS to control that exotic and invasive species.
How would this work on ridge tops? I have a farm i hunt in Indiana, and it consists of several ridges in the 700-1000’ of elevation on the west side of the property that slope down to the east to corn/soybeans. The hardwoods is appx 800 acres with very minimal improvements in decades, and appx 1000 acres of crops. Hardwoods are VERY thick canopy, minimal browse.. however there are some very thick areas we keep as sanctuaries/bedding
Hello Grant, in my area of Texas I don't think there is much woody browse at all, but there is some native grass areas (although rocky). I have a timber stand desert I want to improve (about 5 acres). Could you speak to why hinge or flush cutting to generate root sprouting is less desirable than using hack and squirt?
Great question! Wood browse from a fresh cut stump can contain lots of mineral for a while - as most weeds do. Stump sprouts, like hinge-cut quickly - within a year or two - grow out of reach of deer and the landowner is left with a mess that's very expensive to improve. The sprouts will also shade out the ground and then the landowner is left with a biological desert for several feet where there's no cover for food or deer. Big deer feed are produced by forbs - broad-leafed plants. Soybeans are. common planted forb in ag areas. Ragweed, and many other native plants are forbs that deer consume and benefit from. By terminating low quality trees and using prescribed fire, forbs almost always sprout from the seed bank.
Where is the best place to buy those herbacides you recommended? Is now through spring a good time to hack and squirt? And I would love to implement burning on my property but I don't know where to start? I am afraid to burn the land myself the first time. Do you have any suggestions on finding help burning? Are there any free burning services?
Nate - there are some Prescribed fire coops in some states where local landowners help others burn. Most GOV agencies won't burn on private land due to the liability. However, many agencies do offer training to landowners for a minimal cost. I'd start by asking your state agency about training for prescribed fire.
Keaton - We assist several landowners with creating habitat and hunting improvement plans. There's a fee for our service, based on property size, travel expenses, etc. We'll be serving some landowners in Illinois later this spring and could be swing your place and it wouldn't cost as much if we are already in the area. If you wish to learn more, email us with your location, etc., to info@GrowingDeer,com
Great information! I love seeing TSI before and after! Do you have any sort of recommendations on permanently terminating oak saplings that continue to shoot each year? Seems as though the roots still have energy and I'm struggling to keep them from sprouting even after brush hogging and spraying.
There are many variables including age of trees, species of trees, etc. A good goal is 60 basal feet per acre. Search on Basal Feet Forestry and there are many educational videos that explain this better than I can in text.
How do you recycle this process? What should you do after those mature oaks are old enough that they are harvested or fall or whatever? Do you replant oaks, let it regenerate on its own? If you are always using fire to set back young sprouts what do you have left to replace what's there and be the next generation? I want to do this at my place but want to know what happens after this
Brian - When you are thinking about harvesting oaks - those would be old oaks - then stop the fire a few years before to allow oak saplings to survive!
Hey Grant, I know you promote hack and squirt and spraying stumps with herbicide to not allow stumps sprouts vs hinge cutting or allowing stump sprouts to grow. I was watching a TH-cam video and Dr. Craig Harper was promoting all of these techniques in certain situations. Which is right or is it just situational?
I have a mix of some hard woods and pines, but mostly pines, would you leave the hard woods and get rid of some pines and does the mixture you mentioned work well on pine? Thanks!
Timber stand improvement prescriptions need to be site-specific. I don't know near enough about your property to make a recommendation. Sorry! Be cautious about accepting advice from anyone that gives you blanket recommendations.
Grant, We have two farms with 4-5 acre cedar thickets that we are about to whack. Throughout one of them we have persimmons everywhere and my worry is that when it is time to burn, we will kill off the persimmons due to the first fire being too intense. Any tips on how to save the persimmons or whether you know if they can handle a hotter fire? Any help or answer is greatly appreciated. I love watching your videos.
We do have deer gravitate towards the persimmons that are producing. We have several on edges that produce well and those are frequented by wildlife daily. The persimmons that are amongst the cedars are much smaller though and our thought was that after we cleared the cedars, we would allow them to reach their full potential. Afterwards we would hopefully be able to hunt those as well. We are planning to make the cedar thicket an oak savannah with the few persimmons left here or there.
I also have thought about using a forestry mulcher around the trees I’d like saved. However, I am a little worried that the cedar mulch from that may not allow many things to grow for a few years.
Denver - "Briars and thorns" represent many different species. If those species are invasive exotics such as bush honeysuckle, etc., they should be terminated and allow native species to populate the area. In quality native habitat, rarely are briars and thorns so prevalent that they are an issue. Determine the species and then control as needed.
Bringing this back up...I know you said you prefer to fell cedars, but if I was to try a hack and squirt on mature cedars, which would be the best herbicide? I've tried googling but can't seem to find a specific one for cedar. Would straight gly work or something more along tordon be better? Thanks for all the great info.
Daniel - I've never attempted to hack and squirt a cedar so I'm not much help. Currently the price for quality cedar is very high where I live. If you have several cedar trees, you may wish to see if there's a market where you are.
I've been watching your videos and trying to figure out what I need to do with my land in ms. I've kinda figured out what to do as far as my food plots but I have a lil under 20 ackers of mostly pines with a few mature oaks spreed out in it. Im probly going to have it clear cut the pines and gums. What to do after 5 or 6 years when the sweet gums and smaller pine trees start to take over?
Jerid - To establish and maintain quality wildlife habitat you'll want to terminate the young pines (a weed eater or brush cutter pending on the size) and herbicide or the sweetgums. Cutting the gums will simply encourage them to make more sprouts.
@@GrowingDeerTV In regards to the hack and squirt method, have you noticed that surrounding trees have been damaged due to the grafting of root systems. For example, could I damage an oak tree if I hack and squirt the trees in the understory of that oak tree? I want to keep the quality timber trees safe while promoting new growth.
Play the weather right using Low intensity fires that will consume your 1hr fuels but won’t consume much of your 10-1000hr fuels. Mainly it just burns the leaf litter and very few small sticks, but your standing residuals from the TSI don’t get enough heat intensity to ignite, and are just charred at the base.
If the snags are close to your fire line (within 3 times their own height) put them on the ground before burning. Unless you are burning in strong or gusty winds you should be safe to let them burn themselves out.
Certainly fire can damage hardwoods if the wrong techniques are used - such as a head fire, etc. However, many folks have been using prescribed fire in hardwoods or decades successfully.
Buzz and Woody - Mulch is used to prevent growth - so that's a bad fit for trying to get native grasses and forbs to grow. In addition, mulchers rarely kill hardwoods and in a few years they sprout back which requires more work. It's usually better to terminate the trees and allow more sun to reach the soil. Mulchers can be used for other projects like making stalking paths!
Robert - that's a lot of extra expense and disturbance. In nature, there aren't large piles of chips in the timber. Those chips are like mulch and will keep the native vegetation from growing for a year or more. The whole trees break down at a very natural rate.
There is no doubt those trees COULD be dangerous, but they tend to break off in high winds and during the freeze thawing and its typically slow... It sure wouldn't hurt to be mindful at least if this is the option you choose.
George - You've likely seen dead trees standing for many years where you hunt. As a result of the Hack and Squirt technique, small limbs (1/2" in diameter or so) will fall the first year, then limbs up to 2" or less. They will be air dried and very light. By the time the trunk falls it will also be air dried. The danger is very limited. Thanks for the reminder.
Just curious, why not just drop them instead of leaving standing dead wood? Sitting in a stand watching large standing dead trees moving in strong winds, this would make me nervous. Is it just less physical work and time? Thanks you videos are super helpful
@@scott5931who wants thousands of trees laying on the ground all at the same time. All that debris is a mess and it'll be there for years. I addition, even regular fires won't eliminate it. I wouldn't want to walk through that. Animals don't want to either.
I'm pretty sure Arsenal will also trans locate among tree roots. It will kill wanted Oak trees if their roots tangle with target trees. I would never use Arsenal in a hardwood stand just to be safe.
True, it can translocate. I have personally used back and spray on hundreds, maybe thousands of acres of hardwoods targeting tree of heaven and royal pawlonia (invasive exotics) with minimal flash back on desirable trees. We were using 20% arsenal AC solution and 1 hack per 2 inches, not the 1/3 Grant is recommending. I use this same mix and ratio on my own property with 100% confidence.
Blue is the most apparent color to deer in the color spectrum, they see it about 20 times better then we do... I am surprise you would chose to use it for trees that would be left in a hunting area.
You are correct that deer see blue well! Anything that's not moving such as signs, tractors, posts, etc., don't alarm deer. They become conditioned to such items rapidly and don't associate them with danger.
Patrick - I'm not worried about that. I've never heard of that happening. I'm sure you've seen dead trees stand for many, many years. Then small limbs will fall, and finally larger limbs. the trunks will stand until they are rotten and then crumble and become dirt.
Tod - I don't understand your comment. The prairies are always more productive for deer, turkeys, quail, etc., that a closed canopy forest. Increase the tree stem count very rarely improves the quality of wildlife habitat!
There are way more rabbits and quail where sun hits the ground than in a closed canopy forest. Think about rabbits and quail in Kansas versus areas where there's a solid forest.
Cha-ka. My bad! We are feeling Eastern Red Cedars here which deer don't consume unless they are starving. You are referring to white cedars in Maine which deer prefer and readily consume as winter browse!
@@GrowingDeerTV Thank you for the quick response and clarification. I was having a feeling that's what you meant. I've lived down south and my boss down there gave me some red cedar wood from a tree he cut. The were nice splits and he said they're great for the fire. I couldn't commit myself to burn those great smelling beauties. I sliced them into coasters and other small pieces of furniture. (Remote holder...) Your red cedar is great wood.
@@GrowingDeerTV thank you,I'm going to do the chop and squirt method you said to use to try and get rid of them,got a 80 acre spot that was clear cut 11 years ago and left to nature. The sweet gums are taking over. At least the loggers left a lot of oaks and persimmons.
Felling green trees allows them to fall on the trees to be left standing which results in open wounds and allows insects, disease, fungus, etc., to enter them. It's much better to allow low value trees to die standing and dry before they fall. Then, when the they fall they are very light and don't damage the remaining trees. Folks are killed annually by accidents when felling trees. I've never heard of a single person being injured a a dead tree randomly falling on them. If you have, please share a link.
Stanley - I don't enjoy using herbicide either. It's like a root canal. I wouldn't want a root canal but I'd get one to save the rest of my teeth from rotting out. I"ll use a one-time application of herbicide to improve forest health and keep it from degrading due to past management.
I have all white and black oak trees in my yard. I have had 8 cut down and have a least 20 more that I want gone. Im tired of all the acorns falling on my lawn. I have 14 acres of timber that I am working to clear all the small saplings in Cedar. I had never seen the chop and treat technique before. I have a lot of deer and turkey on my land. Now you have me interested in going and investigating the land more thoroughly. Thank you.
I also love the fact that you always close with something about listening to the Creator thank you
Thank Steve!
That was really awesome . . .you have a great respect for nature and God. Thank you
this is my first time ever hearing about this......great content
Thanks!
Thanks!
With this you’ll also get your oaks to regenerate which is great. We’re losing those due to the way we harvest and fire suppression
Wow, great wisdom on how to draw in all that wildlife.
I appreciate the Ideas & info, it was good to get confirmation on some of the thinks I have been doing to improve our place.
Glad it was helpful!
@9:09 Why the hell am I still watching this? I rent an apartment.....lol. Great video though. I learned something new. Maybe one day I'll have use for it. haha
It's always good to learn!
Awesome information
Hey Grant as always you got some awesome information thanks for taking the time to share
My pleasure!
Love the content!
Man I need you to take a look at my place for sure!
Have HuntStand for mapping and will travel! There is a cost for our services.
Great info Sir. So enjoy your knowledge
Thanks for watching!
Grant , I have about 60 acres of woods in south eastern Virginia. 40 acres were clear cut in 2008 and 5 in 2014. The property wasn’t replanted, only a few pines and Beech trees were left. The new growth is thick with a mix of White and red oak, water oak, maple, sweet gum, sycamore, black cherry, loblolly pine, American holly and sweet bay magnolia for the most part. Many trees are clumped close together and some growing out of old stumps. I want to terminate many trees to improve the habit for deer and turkey
Which would you keep? When is the best time to hack & squirt ?
The woodland is surrounded on all sides by crops and open fields.
I don’t see many food opportunities in the woods to hold wildlife in the winter.
Randal - Congratulations on having land in a neat area! It's very tough to convert 10+ year old post clearcut stands into productive. There will most likely be 10's of ,1000's of stems of various tree species at your property. One option it to consider having the area site prepped and replaced with pines. This would allow you to created food plots exactly where they need to be, have a future crop of timber, etc. There's no one herbicide that terminates all the different tree species, A mix of 50% Garlon3A, 40% water, and 10% Arsenal AC will terminate the oaks, sweetgums, and hickories. It will literally take 10's of 1,000's of hacks to complete such a project and very little quality timber will result. However, if you like that type of work and wish to paint the canvas of your property, after the leaves are full shape and before their start turning color is the most effectively time to use the hack and squirt technique.
grant
Often the problem in many areas is when opening the forest canopy you get an overwhelming amount of invasive vegetation and not native vegetation.
That can be an issue. However, frequent prescribed fire works to control many invasive, exotic species.
Love the videos ! You’re a wealth of knowledge. I have a question for long term tsi. I live in hill country upstate NY, primarily oaks , I’m going to get together with a timber guy from church to select cut/hack and squirt to get more undergrowth like you said … I believe it’s illegal to burn in NY so is there another method you suggest to clear the floor? I’d like to get more bedding also so do you recommend felling the trees in those areas over hack and squirt ?
Joe - Glad you are doing some habitat improvement work! Prescribe fire is a very important tool and it's a shame it's not legal in New York. I have several clients there that can't manage their habitat to its fullest potential due to not being able to use prescribed fire. You may need to use herbicide to spot treat invasive species after the canopy is opened.
Best video I have seen on this topic, curious on the shoots coming out of stumps though….. I have read and watched info that those are a great thing to have because of all the leafy greens sprouting out at deer head height, can you shed light on this thought, thank you
Sprouts from a few tree species like winged elm and some maples are palatable to deer and include a higher than average mineral content. However, they are still a woody crop - with a large part being non-digestible and become less so as they mature. Many, many wild forbs that such sprouts shade our are MUCH higher quality nutrition for deer. The biggest deer always are harvested in areas where a lot of sun reaches the soil in some portion of their home range.
@@GrowingDeerTV what is effective way to kill stumps with sprouts with exception of grubbing them out, large black walnut, and oak in particular, can the herbicide mixture be used directly on top since the entire circulatory system of tree is exposed?
I bet the woodpeckers go crazy in there
Seems like any openings I make are quickly taken over by briars and poison ivy, rather than grasses. Not very nice to hunt in. Any suggestions?
Use prescribed fire to set those species back and encourage forbs - great deer food!
It looks so good in the growing season. How open is it once it is hunting season in Wisconsin and snow has flattened everything out? Thank you
Eric - That depends on how it's managed and what species are present. By varying the timing of prescribed fires, there will be a wide variety of species, some of which stand well during the winter. The quality of food produced during the summer and the improved health of the herd trump wooden structure during the winter.
@@GrowingDeerTV hardwood regeneration is what deer eat in winter. Thats why you shouldnt kill everything.
Hi grant, is there no use for firewood in your area. I select cut my woods and love the stump sprouts as both deer and moose love to browse them. My woodstove is a great herbicide!!thanks for sharing
Waters - I've offered firewood to many and we terminate more trees that folks wish to cut for wood. If we didn't treat the stumps, they'd create a jungle way taller than deer can reach and shade out better quality habitat.
Great info. Can you briefly describe situations where hack & squirt methods would be preferred to hinge-cutting for TSI?
Thanks and happy new year!
Keith - I never prescribed hinge cutting. The limbs on a hinge cut tree will quickly (two years or so) grow out of the reach of a deer to compete for the sun's energy. This creates a shaded out mess below the hinge cut tree. There's no native habitat that is like the results of hinge cut areas. The best deer hunting areas - the prairie states of Iowa, etc., have forage, not limbs. Native grasses and forbs make much better cover and food than hinge cut trees.
Is it possible to harvest the trees you want to remove and treat the stumps in the same way to prevent sprouting? That way we can get maximum return on all the timber we fell rather than just letting it rot on the ground. Thanks.
If there's a market the trees can and should be harvested. However, stumps need to be treated within minutes or the sap will keep herbicide from entering the tree.
Timeless video.
Great information. But what do you do when there is a large amount of Honey Suckle around your property. I'm sure if I were to thin out the canopy the Honey Suckle would take over.
Michael - You are correct and it's best to terminate the honeysuckle as it's very invasive! There may be EQIP funding through the NRCS to control that exotic and invasive species.
Best reference for identifying plants and weeds? I don't know what's what. Thanks
Clay - Checkout the free apps Seek and iNature. They are good tools!
How would this work on ridge tops? I have a farm i hunt in Indiana, and it consists of several ridges in the 700-1000’ of elevation on the west side of the property that slope down to the east to corn/soybeans. The hardwoods is appx 800 acres with very minimal improvements in decades, and appx 1000 acres of crops. Hardwoods are VERY thick canopy, minimal browse.. however there are some very thick areas we keep as sanctuaries/bedding
Ryan - Thinning hardwoods creates great habitat. However, it needs to be performed correctly so there's not hardwood sprouts everywhere.
Hello Grant, in my area of Texas I don't think there is much woody browse at all, but there is some native grass areas (although rocky). I have a timber stand desert I want to improve (about 5 acres). Could you speak to why hinge or flush cutting to generate root sprouting is less desirable than using hack and squirt?
Great question! Wood browse from a fresh cut stump can contain lots of mineral for a while - as most weeds do. Stump sprouts, like hinge-cut quickly - within a year or two - grow out of reach of deer and the landowner is left with a mess that's very expensive to improve. The sprouts will also shade out the ground and then the landowner is left with a biological desert for several feet where there's no cover for food or deer. Big deer feed are produced by forbs - broad-leafed plants. Soybeans are. common planted forb in ag areas. Ragweed, and many other native plants are forbs that deer consume and benefit from. By terminating low quality trees and using prescribed fire, forbs almost always sprout from the seed bank.
Where is the best place to buy those herbacides you recommended? Is now through spring a good time to hack and squirt? And I would love to implement burning on my property but I don't know where to start? I am afraid to burn the land myself the first time. Do you have any suggestions on finding help burning? Are there any free burning services?
Nate - there are some Prescribed fire coops in some states where local landowners help others burn. Most GOV agencies won't burn on private land due to the liability. However, many agencies do offer training to landowners for a minimal cost. I'd start by asking your state agency about training for prescribed fire.
I have 63 acres here in southern Illinois, I’d love to invite you here to do this project
Keaton - We assist several landowners with creating habitat and hunting improvement plans. There's a fee for our service, based on property size, travel expenses, etc. We'll be serving some landowners in Illinois later this spring and could be swing your place and it wouldn't cost as much if we are already in the area. If you wish to learn more, email us with your location, etc., to info@GrowingDeer,com
Using hack and squirt I s there a general rule to follow for application when rain is in the forecast to retain effectiveness of the herbicide?
I recommend not using this technique for a day before a large rain event is forecast!
With all that stuff growing up, won't it be harder to see\shoot deer? Im basing my question of a 8acre wood and thicket mixed lot.
Yes - but by attacking more deer and the deer making trails, it's easier to pattern them.
Video is so good
Thanks!
Great information! I love seeing TSI before and after! Do you have any sort of recommendations on permanently terminating oak saplings that continue to shoot each year? Seems as though the roots still have energy and I'm struggling to keep them from sprouting even after brush hogging and spraying.
If only treating oaks, Garlon 3A should work. Mowing won't terminate most hardwoods.
@@GrowingDeerTV awesome! I will see if I can’t get them sprayed with some of that! I haven’t tried it yet!
You could also get a animal like sheep or goat and they will fix it.
What kind of spacing between trees should I actually be shooting for? My ultimate goal is wildlife habitat.
There are many variables including age of trees, species of trees, etc. A good goal is 60 basal feet per acre. Search on Basal Feet Forestry and there are many educational videos that explain this better than I can in text.
How do you recycle this process? What should you do after those mature oaks are old enough that they are harvested or fall or whatever? Do you replant oaks, let it regenerate on its own? If you are always using fire to set back young sprouts what do you have left to replace what's there and be the next generation? I want to do this at my place but want to know what happens after this
Brian - When you are thinking about harvesting oaks - those would be old oaks - then stop the fire a few years before to allow oak saplings to survive!
Hey Grant, I know you promote hack and squirt and spraying stumps with herbicide to not allow stumps sprouts vs hinge cutting or allowing stump sprouts to grow. I was watching a TH-cam video and Dr. Craig Harper was promoting all of these techniques in certain situations. Which is right or is it just situational?
Brian - Much depends on the specific situation.
whats your recommendation for clearing briars in sc after a clear cut
John - growing season fire or herbicide.
I have a mix of some hard woods and pines, but mostly pines, would you leave the hard woods and get rid of some pines and does the mixture you mentioned work well on pine? Thanks!
Timber stand improvement prescriptions need to be site-specific. I don't know near enough about your property to make a recommendation. Sorry! Be cautious about accepting advice from anyone that gives you blanket recommendations.
Really just wondering what mixture would work best for pine, the property is on the eastern shore of Maryland
Grant,
We have two farms with 4-5 acre cedar thickets that we are about to whack. Throughout one of them we have persimmons everywhere and my worry is that when it is time to burn, we will kill off the persimmons due to the first fire being too intense. Any tips on how to save the persimmons or whether you know if they can handle a hotter fire? Any help or answer is greatly appreciated. I love watching your videos.
Bo - Are you hunting deer using the persimmons now?
We do have deer gravitate towards the persimmons that are producing. We have several on edges that produce well and those are frequented by wildlife daily. The persimmons that are amongst the cedars are much smaller though and our thought was that after we cleared the cedars, we would allow them to reach their full potential. Afterwards we would hopefully be able to hunt those as well. We are planning to make the cedar thicket an oak savannah with the few persimmons left here or there.
I also have thought about using a forestry mulcher around the trees I’d like saved. However, I am a little worried that the cedar mulch from that may not allow many things to grow for a few years.
Grant - will you travel to Southwestern PA to review and develop a plan for our property? (looking for max wildlife habitat) thank you, Chris
Bull - Sure! I work there frequently and will be assisting a landowner there August 11th!
@@GrowingDeerTV how do we correspond to discuss details and timing ? - Chris
In my area briars and thorns tend to grow in these areas. Is this a problem? Should they be cut back? If so is there a way I can prevent this?
Denver - "Briars and thorns" represent many different species. If those species are invasive exotics such as bush honeysuckle, etc., they should be terminated and allow native species to populate the area. In quality native habitat, rarely are briars and thorns so prevalent that they are an issue. Determine the species and then control as needed.
Bringing this back up...I know you said you prefer to fell cedars, but if I was to try a hack and squirt on mature cedars, which would be the best herbicide? I've tried googling but can't seem to find a specific one for cedar. Would straight gly work or something more along tordon be better? Thanks for all the great info.
Daniel - I've never attempted to hack and squirt a cedar so I'm not much help. Currently the price for quality cedar is very high where I live. If you have several cedar trees, you may wish to see if there's a market where you are.
Did you end up trying the hack and squirt on your cedar? Interested to hear your results.
@@JM-mz7wx I have not. I had the state forester out and he recommended simply girdling the cedars, no herbicide needed. I plan to try that first.
I've been watching your videos and trying to figure out what I need to do with my land in ms. I've kinda figured out what to do as far as my food plots but I have a lil under 20 ackers of mostly pines with a few mature oaks spreed out in it. Im probly going to have it clear cut the pines and gums. What to do after 5 or 6 years when the sweet gums and smaller pine trees start to take over?
Jerid - To establish and maintain quality wildlife habitat you'll want to terminate the young pines (a weed eater or brush cutter pending on the size) and herbicide or the sweetgums. Cutting the gums will simply encourage them to make more sprouts.
That's right, thank you Lord Jesus 😊
Can you do this and get similar results without using prescribed fire?
Draco - Fire is a great tool to improve native habitat - it would be tough to achieve the same without using fire.
@@GrowingDeerTV In regards to the hack and squirt method, have you noticed that surrounding trees have been damaged due to the grafting of root systems. For example, could I damage an oak tree if I hack and squirt the trees in the understory of that oak tree? I want to keep the quality timber trees safe while promoting new growth.
Anyone ever heard of the hack and squirt wood being ok to cook with??
Would you mind sharing the name of the Missouri contractor you used to come and do the work?
Send me a message at info@GrowingDeer.com and I'll get you in touch with them.
How do you deal with burning dead snags after hack and squirt? I’ve had some scary situations.
Play the weather right using Low intensity fires that will consume your 1hr fuels but won’t consume much of your 10-1000hr fuels. Mainly it just burns the leaf litter and very few small sticks, but your standing residuals from the TSI don’t get enough heat intensity to ignite, and are just charred at the base.
If the snags are close to your fire line (within 3 times their own height) put them on the ground before burning. Unless you are burning in strong or gusty winds you should be safe to let them burn themselves out.
Ron - I agree with Mills - don't use the hack and squirt technique close to a fire line.
I've been told to shy award from doing controlled burns in hardwoods. They might damage the hardwoods to much
Certainly fire can damage hardwoods if the wrong techniques are used - such as a head fire, etc. However, many folks have been using prescribed fire in hardwoods or decades successfully.
Hey grant !! After a couple years have passed once you have done a tsi project. Do you go in and find the bedding areas within it ?
Wade - I tend to scout my entire property after the season closes while shed hunting, doing habitat improvement projects, etc.
What are your thoughts on hard maples? I can’t find a buyer but have a lot of hard sugar maples causing a wasteland underneath
Fire wood unfortunately
Would forestry mulching fit into any of this?
Buzz and Woody - Mulch is used to prevent growth - so that's a bad fit for trying to get native grasses and forbs to grow. In addition, mulchers rarely kill hardwoods and in a few years they sprout back which requires more work. It's usually better to terminate the trees and allow more sun to reach the soil. Mulchers can be used for other projects like making stalking paths!
What about wood chipping the felled trees?
Robert - that's a lot of extra expense and disturbance. In nature, there aren't large piles of chips in the timber. Those chips are like mulch and will keep the native vegetation from growing for a year or more. The whole trees break down at a very natural rate.
There is no doubt those trees COULD be dangerous, but they tend to break off in high winds and during the freeze thawing and its typically slow... It sure wouldn't hurt to be mindful at least if this is the option you choose.
George - You've likely seen dead trees standing for many years where you hunt. As a result of the Hack and Squirt technique, small limbs (1/2" in diameter or so) will fall the first year, then limbs up to 2" or less. They will be air dried and very light. By the time the trunk falls it will also be air dried. The danger is very limited. Thanks for the reminder.
Just curious, why not just drop them instead of leaving standing dead wood?
Sitting in a stand watching large standing dead trees moving in strong winds, this would make me nervous. Is it just less physical work and time?
Thanks you videos are super helpful
@@scott5931who wants thousands of trees laying on the ground all at the same time. All that debris is a mess and it'll be there for years. I addition, even regular fires won't eliminate it. I wouldn't want to walk through that. Animals don't want to either.
I'm pretty sure Arsenal will also trans locate among tree roots. It will kill wanted Oak trees if their roots tangle with target trees. I would never use Arsenal in a hardwood stand just to be safe.
True, it can translocate. I have personally used back and spray on hundreds, maybe thousands of acres of hardwoods targeting tree of heaven and royal pawlonia (invasive exotics) with minimal flash back on desirable trees. We were using 20% arsenal AC solution and 1 hack per 2 inches, not the 1/3 Grant is recommending. I use this same mix and ratio on my own property with 100% confidence.
Mills is correct.
Blue is the most apparent color to deer in the color spectrum, they see it about 20 times better then we do... I am surprise you would chose to use it for trees that would be left in a hunting area.
You are correct that deer see blue well!
Anything that's not moving such as signs, tractors, posts, etc., don't alarm deer. They become conditioned to such items rapidly and don't associate them with danger.
can you hack & squirt cedars ?
Yes, but since cedars cut below the bottom limb don't produce sprouts it's usually better to simply cut them.
Are you ever worried about the dead trees falling on you/landowners? It seems That’s the only “drawback” with hack and squirt. Thanks!
Patrick - I'm not worried about that. I've never heard of that happening. I'm sure you've seen dead trees stand for many, many years. Then small limbs will fall, and finally larger limbs. the trunks will stand until they are rotten and then crumble and become dirt.
Cn I hack and squirt white pine in Northeastern Pennsylvania?
Yes - with the correct herbicide.
Regeneration is required for deer/wildlife. Need that stem count
Tod - I don't understand your comment. The prairies are always more productive for deer, turkeys, quail, etc., that a closed canopy forest. Increase the tree stem count very rarely improves the quality of wildlife habitat!
Amen
Thanks!
What’s unfavorable about hickories? I would think the deer would find them appealing
Deer can't crack the hull - they never eat them.
@@GrowingDeerTVthanks for responding
It may be good for deer but what about rabbits quail they need underbrush
There are way more rabbits and quail where sun hits the ground than in a closed canopy forest. Think about rabbits and quail in Kansas versus areas where there's a solid forest.
You keep saying to kill off those cedar trees. Well, here in Maine our deer eat the cedar foliage and they sleep under them.
Cha-ka. My bad! We are feeling Eastern Red Cedars here which deer don't consume unless they are starving. You are referring to white cedars in Maine which deer prefer and readily consume as winter browse!
@@GrowingDeerTV Thank you for the quick response and clarification. I was having a feeling that's what you meant. I've lived down south and my boss down there gave me some red cedar wood from a tree he cut. The were nice splits and he said they're great for the fire. I couldn't commit myself to burn those great smelling beauties. I sliced them into coasters and other small pieces of furniture. (Remote holder...) Your red cedar is great wood.
Do sweet gum trees offer any value to deer habitat
Sweetgums don't offer any value to deer. They are spreading as forestry practices encourage their growth.
@@GrowingDeerTV thank you,I'm going to do the chop and squirt method you said to use to try and get rid of them,got a 80 acre spot that was clear cut 11 years ago and left to nature. The sweet gums are taking over. At least the loggers left a lot of oaks and persimmons.
Why not just cut the trees down? Why would you want a bunch of widow maker dead trees all around. Thats not smart. Just cut them down?
Felling green trees allows them to fall on the trees to be left standing which results in open wounds and allows insects, disease, fungus, etc., to enter them. It's much better to allow low value trees to die standing and dry before they fall. Then, when the they fall they are very light and don't damage the remaining trees. Folks are killed annually by accidents when felling trees. I've never heard of a single person being injured a a dead tree randomly falling on them. If you have, please share a link.
by the time the widow maker falls it will be somebody else problem classy
By the time the timber falls it will be extremely rotten and dry.
Don't like using poison and/or chemicals that can be harmful to wildlife and humans with cancer and other illnesses.
Stanley - I don't enjoy using herbicide either. It's like a root canal. I wouldn't want a root canal but I'd get one to save the rest of my teeth from rotting out. I"ll use a one-time application of herbicide to improve forest health and keep it from degrading due to past management.
No thanks. Come fall you can see all the way across it and so can deer.
Jason - You must be thinking of the very northern portion of the whitetail's range. Have you tried this technique?
Wow! Such misinformation about "forest".
Phil - care to explain?
WTF! Deer are everywhere. We already have plenty of habitat, lawns and golf courses.
What about hedge cutting them and letting lay on their side?
Check out this video where we show a comparison and the benefits:th-cam.com/video/niByd2Eo59o/w-d-xo.html