I believe that Arik Taranis, One of the last Thunder Warriors still alive by the time of the Heresy, successfully copied his genetic material and created an entirely new gene seed, as seen in Outcast Dead, when he steals a progenoid gland from an Astartes warrior and takes it back to his lab to find a way to lengthen his decaying lifespan, which he supposedly succeeded in by the end of the novel, when his Thunder warrior lieutenant asked him if he succeed in the process of genetic modification, to which Arik replies,”Yes, my son. it worked”. Also, to rationalize the name and iconography of the Minotaurs, Arik Taranis’ personal heraldry was a *RED BULL’S HEAD* surrounded by lightning bolts.
What does it change exactly? The Outcast Dead tells us that Thunder Warriors survived and all but flat out states that the Minotaur's chapter heraldry is based off of Arik Taranis' personal heraldry.
"so...what flaw we do want to remove in this founding?" "The Astartes are too friendly toward their enemies". "Hand me that classified sample of a Thunder Warrior we recovered recently..."
Inquisition: So we've been taking a look at this one chapter that seems very suspicious since you guys seem to classify everything about these guys. High Lords: Do you know how BIG a pool you guys are asking to skim here? Our government is basically Confucius' worst nightmare. Inquisition: Its the Minotaurs. Are you sure their gene-seed doesn't come from the forbi- High Lords: Oh look! Abaddon has just slam dunked one of those black eight point eyesores right through Cadia! Now we got a gaping scare splitting the imperium in two. You lot better look into that.
Remleiz, have you not read the HH novel The Oucast Dead yet? The last leg of the book hints HEAVILY at the Minotaurs being descendants of surviving Thunder Warriors whose built-in genetic degradation was fixed by Arik Taranis using gene-seed sourced from different legion marines. Hence the Minotaur's chimeric gene-seed. Arik's heraldry is described as a red bulls head. The colors of the two forces are identical according to artwork. The savagery was shared by Thunder Warriors. Minotaurs would be paranoid and hate other marines because of how they were killed off to be replaced by said marines. I keep seeing people chase their tails by thinking they are Iron Warriors, World Eaters, or a combination of each when one of the early HH novels all but outright stated the truth of their origins if one can read between the lines. You should really consider making a true pt.2 to this video and exploring the Thunder Warrior angle and theorizing on what Arik Taranis did between the events of the heresy and the first appearance of the Minotaurs chapter
Hmmm how so? I wouldnt expect marines somehow derived from Custodes creation methods to be bloodthirsty killing machines. Custodes creation is also totally different and is to an extent, unique to each Custodian. Custodes seem much more reserved and thoughtful in every action they perform, rather than borderline berserkers. Besides, there isnt really much aside from color scheme that links Minotaurs to Custodes. No lore that I have ever seen or heard of at least. Though maybe Ive missed something. Whereas I feel like half the reason The Outcast Dead was even written was to expand on Minotaurs origins. The book has a few bits of writing that are a little questionable when it comes to sticking with established lore like psykers and the strength of Custodes battleplate vs bare fists, but the emphasis on Arik Taranis and the remaining Thunder Warriors hiding out in the Petitioners City on Terra was amazing and I hope we get to see more of them soon
@@dannygelbart6827 Thunder Warriors aren't all that much bigger than standard Astartes, if not comparable in size to Primaris Marines. This means that while yes, TW gene seed may cause them to be larger than their kin in the Astartes, it wouldn't make them Custodes-level size and bulk, but almost Primaris-lite
@@BR4IN1N4J4R Thunder Warriors ARE much larger than standard Astartes no idea where you got that they aren't. They are supposed to be taller than Custodes as well who are taller still than Primaris Astartes.
Many are suggested to have been formed into the knights errant, the pre-cursor to the grey knights chapter. However theirs also the theory of black shields, members within the death watch who hide their chapter origin
I think deatwatch is full of ex traitors/loyalist from traitor chapter and i don t even talk about Fallen they must be in good number. In my personnal collection i did a deathwatch squat with H thunder hammer who are clearly world eaters ^^
I'm always impressed by the research and sourcing that goes into these. I could be a huge fan of WH40k for years and I bet I would still never read "Imperial Armour, volume 10, The Badab War, part 2"
The Ultimate legion against rebelling space marines? I think the Emperor already created a chapter for that specific purpose... to serve as his Executioners.
@@Ireland609 Alpha Legion is just CIA except even more psycho. But as long as you think they are weird, there is sanity left in you. The day they start to make sense... Well, just dont let them make any sense, ok?
@@crypto1223 I seriously don't care how often the "Alpha Legion meme" has been done, and if you have a problem with things being "done to death", you're in the wrong hobby.
Also for those wondering. If you read the Index Astartes, it points out that when needed, the Iron Warriors go into a berzerk fury the equivalent of the Blood Angels or World Eaters, however they have the ability to regain their composure, as if flipping a switch. This further matches up with the Minotaurs behaviors. And in Horus Heresy (Black) Book 6, it is shown that the Iron Warriors developed specialized anti-Astartes forces, notably trained with heavy use of hypnoindoctrination and brain surgery
I mean, Iron Warriors were known for using lots and lots of heavy artillery and being brutal close combat fighters, so that adds up. Then again, what Legion wasn't brutal in CC?
That's most chapter's of unknown or suspicious heritage. It's also implied that the 2nd and 11th legions were absorbed into the ultramarines after their primarchs were erased.
Hey, those guys with the bull design? They really remind me of Angrons boys, you know, the Wor- They're Ultramarine Successor Chapters! How about those guys over there? The ones with the Silver Skull on their shoulder, don't they remind you of Perturabo? And his Iro- They're Ultramarines too!!
We know that at least one chapter called Minotaurs are successors of Iron Warriors. The creator of the army said so himself,but it might not even be the same chapter called the minotaurs.
My money is on them being made as a sort of Astartes Counter-Chapter, but they were commissioned by the High Lords themselves. Anyone else would have been purged by the Inquisition.
For those wondering, allow me to clarify. There indeed are two chapters of Minotaurs One uses iron Warrior geneseed & the other uses Chimeric geneseed The Iron Warrior Minotaurs have been around since M32 and are the bronze armoured ones we know. The Chimeric ones were the ones created in the Cursed Founding were the ones who disappeared in M38.
How do you figure? Luna Wolves weren't anything like the Minotaurs. Luna Wolves were more like Ultramarines that dispensed with the formal shit and focused more on offense.
I’d probably say they wouldn’t be. The tactics of the iron warriors require people make sure they know what their doing and above all not run into the enemy screaming. World eaters butchers nails would fuck that over. There’s a reason apothecaries and psychers in the world eaters legion didn’t have them implemented.
Lamenters: Mutated the gene that makes no one want to eat lunch with you Black Dragons: Mutated some pretty sweet Logans Minotaurs: Mutated into raging tards and the High Lords are their wranglers.
The spiteful, anti-astartes makes me lean heavily toward Iron Warriors. They even had similar rules at first when you compared Iron Warrior 30k rules and 7th Ed rules for Minotaurs.
5:50 - A mix of Ultrasmurfs and Dark Angels. | 6:26 - Which resulted in mixed feelings, even by Traitor legion standards. | 7:53 - They'd be more stable due to lacking the Butcher's Nails. | 9:42 - They turned traitor because they weren't being appreciated. | So they're the World Warriors? Are their librarians capable of Shoyuken and Hadouken?
With the whole altered geneseed, it sounds possible that the Minotaur Astartes has a hybrid blend of two traitor's genes. Unlike the rumors of the Blood Ravens being related to the Thousand Sons, it might be interesting to see what the high lords of Terra have in hiding. It could also be possible that they're related to the Custodies but with flawed geneseed.
But the custodies do not have geneseed. Each one is a bespoke creation, created from the ground up so there is no way the minotaurs could be related to the Custodies
In a way, they do, though, especially if you consider that there is a lot of overlap in geen-seed characteristics. For example, according to the lore, they seem to be secretive about the exact size of their chapter. My personal theory about the meaning of "chimeric geen-seed" is not that the chapter's geen-seed is hybridized, but rather than the chapter uses a number of separate geen-seed lines, kind of like the "Unnumbered Sons" primaris marines. For example, suppose that they have some members with Iron Warriors geen-seed, some with Alpha Legion geen-seed, some with World Eaters geen-seed, etc., and they have some way of determining with aspirant should get implanted with which one.
(I know this comment is ancient) but the more I read about these guys the more I get the vibe that GW designed them specifically to be a chapter that players can say they descended from a traitor legion of their choice, they seem to have at least one thing suspiciously in common with a lot of them.
The World-Eater's legion displays their high amounts of brutality because they are corrupted by Korn as well as the butcher's nails. However a default uncorrupted space Marine of the World-Eater's would be the embodiment of the Emperor's compassion.
The World Eaters were known to have been exceptionally brutal by Space Marine standards, even before the implementation of Butcher's Nails (as stated within the Horus Heresy black books by Forge World).
Weren't the Iron Warriors, before being united with their gene father, known for answering all calls for aide, even those seen as beneath other Legiones Astartes? Seems at least similar to me.
My guess would be mix of blood angels and death guard. Blood angels were and still are quite savage and during the heresy were quite paranoid about anyone finding out about their flaw. While meeting the enemy dead on, with little care to surroundings (to the point that the world is not even habitable anymore) sounds like something Death guard are fond of.
Blood Angels are not paranoid. They have an actual reason to be worried about someone finding their flaw. Paranoia is being worried of being spied upon for no good reason.
My vote is with the world eaters being the source because from what I rememebr the warhounds we're still known as a brutal legion even before angron, and after angron the legion took on a Greek gladiator feel which meshes well with the Greek theme of the minotaurs. That last point may be to vague to be a point but sometimes subtlety is not GWs strong suite (the world eaters pre heresy war cry was "Blood for the primarch, skulls for the 12th legion")
I love how there are so many loyalist chapters which are all but explicitly stated to be descended from traitor legions. Minotaurs are World Eaters. Red Scorpions are Word Bearers. Carcharodons Astra are Night Lords. Blood Ravens are Thousand Sons. 40k Fans: "Home brew Space Marine chapters shouldn't be based off of traitor legions because reasons." Black Library Authors: "Hold our beers!"
Don't forget the Sons of the Phoenix, Sons of Antaeus and (possibly) the Soul Drinkers. And Cawl's more than likely making more from Traitor Gene-Seed, given his casual tech-Heresy in making an A.I.
I am going with the War Hounds. . . er, World Eaters. The Minotaurs are not as crazed as the World Eaters under the influence of the Butchers' Nails. Wait, maybe not. . . Let's go through the legions with paranoia issues: 1st, 4th, 7th, 6th, 14th, 19th, 20th Legions. I might argue that the Minotaurs in fact bear more resemblance to the 14th, being disdainful of other legions, siege breakers, brutal, forbidden gene stock, and resilient. It could also be the fact that I just finished "The Buried Dagger" however. Who knows? I think that 4th, 12th, and 14th are the best candidates however. I think that the High Lords would consider that the 12th was likely to fall to Chaos whether or not Angron went off of the deep end. Their natures were susceptible to Khorne. The 14th legion however was only taken by treachery to Nurgle's bosom. If not for Typhon, it wasn't happening. Besides, you know that the High Lords love using astartes as chattel, like they did with the 3rd before Fulgrim's return. The 14th's stock make great meat grinding.
Nails? Who needs nails? Have a look at the Carcharadon. They are crazed and brutal without any butchers nails. well maybe they have a hawaiian surfboard up their brain causing the same rage.
Their dad is their uncle then. Who also had an affair with their grandmother who turns out to be MY transgender father who was originally my brothers sister who also fucked the neighbour's dog in return for a mars bar and a snort of a line of bone powder. Im not even gonna try and work out what I just told you!!! Jeremy Kyle: The Lost and the Damned.
Minotaurs are the high lords personal executors the emperor had the Space Wolves. They wanted a personal force to go kill shit other astartes or military forces couldn't or wouldn't Hence the classified, hence the best gear, hence terra as a recruitment world
Hey theory you know I’ve always seen that giant circle thing in 40k lore vids but what does the giant void placed spinny thing do and what is it? I’m honestly curious it’s at 5:37
@@saxon2846 it is probably a small bit of filler for when there isn't enough images to use. Or symbolically how the Imperium and chaos need one another and the 18 legions are there playthings
If they are chimeric then they would probably be loyalist mixed with traitor not traitor mixed with traitor. Like iron warriors and ultramarines or world eaters and fists. To try and "balance" the geneseed.
Gotta be Luna Wolves. Look at the emblem, replace horns with moon. Either that, or it's a legion that began with thunder warriors. That's the only explanation I have for their agression and mis trust of every other organization but theirs. And the Emperor, of course.
I was listening to the Raven Guard Novels and Brazen Minotaur's where in one of the stories. Really cool how then RG paid back a debt to them without them knowing so they could go and do their thing vs traitors. It was like the RG knew directly trying to help a bull in a china shop was dumb all they need to do is lead the bull to the china shop and let him do his thing.
I’ve always thought that, since there seems to have been a post heresy era chapter with the same name and doctrine, and that the current leader of the Minotaurs seems to have always been the leader of the Minotaurs, that the Minotaurs are one of the lost legions who suffered massive casualties in the heresy, and in the 21st founding received a bulk of new recruits to make up for what was likely crippling losses and possibly crippling levels of mutation
Put me down for primarily World Eaters with some Iron Warriors, Blood Ravens (that kleptomania has to come from somewhere) and Ultramarines for balance. On that same note, I think the Space Sharks are a cross between Raven Guard (Ashen Claws successor chapter, specifically) and World Eaters.
My idea as the cursed founding had Cawl involved with these chapters being founded and were all most likely early field test for cawls primaris project but mostly failed, except the monitors who he could have taken to study and learn what he got right, and Cawl had asked for permission for using gene seed from all 20 primarchs but he was denied. Knowing Cawl he would do it anyway.
My favourite chapter. I had Dark Angels and Chaos space marines in 2004 lol. I just started playing 40k again last year with my son using the Minotaurs chapter Vs Orks which my 8 year old son likes
I’m a little late but there is another legion famed for its savagery: the space wolves. While the current stock of gene seeds can’t be implanted in anyone other then fenrisians the vaults in terra could have a less degraded stock. They also might not, leading for the need to hybridize the gene seed to stabilize the space wolves genes, possibly ness estimating the need to mix it with another legion. I’m thinking dark angels for stability, but perhaps space wolf-dark angel didn’t work so they did pull out some traitor gene seed and it worked. I’d like world eaters and space wolves but you make a good point about iron warriors. With their manic personalities and secrets though they could be mixed with alpha legion as well, but they have other genetic flaws the Minotaurs don’t have. Anyway it’s a stretch but i like it.
I think that the their gene seed could be from the Iron Warriors World eaters and one of the lost legions or primarily from one of the lost legions are maybe both.
I can't say i know enough about either chapter to make a conplete theory on this, but perhaps they are an iron warriors/dark angels hybrid. Both would reinforce their paranoid and secretive behavior, the iron warriors would reinforce their military doctrine while dark angels would ensure their loyalty. It may be perhaps that the reason they fight orher astartes is a way of continuing the dark angels hunt for the fallen, hoping to find clues through other traitor chaptors, instead of them being directly under control of the high lords.
I think Rogal Dorn created the Minotaurs to incorporate the battlefield virtues he was made a victim of, when fighting the iron warriors traitor legion, during his battles within the iron cage. Dorn and his Imperial Fists were near slaughtered within this moon-sized death trap, The Iron Cage, designed by the Iron Warriors to test and destroy the Fists, ultimately proving Iron Warriors tactical superiority. The Iron Warriors gambit failed, but I think Dorn recognised the ingenuity present in the traitor legions attempt. I think Dorn spliced Fists and Iron Warriors gene-seed hoping his own DNA might check any deficient traits found within the traitor stock. Dorn, acting as his alias, The Captin General of the Custodes - a position which grants him a seat among the high lords of terra - supplies, directs and manages the Minotaurs chapter. The Minotaur was originally a half-man, half-beast, lost within a great prison-maze and I think it was within the maze of The Iron Cage that the inspiration for the Minotaurs chapter was born.
@@anerd2886 Another thing which supports this theory is the prevalence of power-spears within the Minotaurs chapter. A weapon usually only found amongst the Custodes.
@@7hi5on35 Minotaur is Greek mythology. Care to remember weapon of Greek Hoplite / Phalanx? :) And as much as I love theory about Dorn, I don't think you can hide Primarch for so long, especially one such as Dorn. Though theory about origin in MAZE under Imperial Palace.... hm.....
Would love a theory on the current Raptor chapter and the old Raptor chapter, if there is anything that could explain how they became so incredible reasonable in their operations
Perhaps they can trace their lineage to a specific and unique individual of the XII Legion: Endryd Haar. When the XII were first created, it believed that Endryd Haar was 'not stamped from the same moll', being larger and stronger than any other astartes, (he is noted for killing a Thunder Warrior by breaking his neck!!) When Angron was unwillingly reunited with his sons, Haar refused to have, or otherwise avoided having, the Butchers Nails implanted; he didn't need them. Later he led a warband of Blackshields called the Fangs of the Emperor that would go on to fight in the Battle of Terra, with even Malcador taking not of his 'killer among killers' prowess. Given his near 'proto-astartes' status and his loyalty to the Emperor, it would make sense that, one day, the high lords would get round to making some Fangs of the Emperor and Endryd Haars of their own. Endryd Haar mixed with some Garviel Loken
As much as I think they're assholes for being tools of the most corrupt and incompetent part of the Imperium (The High Lords) it would be a shame to lose them. They are loyal, powerful and, unlike the other most hated Chapter, the Marines Malevolent, they look so badass. I doubt we'll hear about them for some time because it takes forever to advance the storyline, but given how effective Nurgle is with plagues, I think the Minotaurs are doomed.
Well the Mainatour chapter is like a leashed dog and the HLOT are the master. I personally understand it like this because they react quickly and push into the maw of the enemy without a second thought.
I believe that Arik Taranis, One of the last Thunder Warriors still alive by the time of the Heresy, successfully copied his genetic material and created an entirely new gene seed, as seen in Outcast Dead, when he steals a progenoid gland from an Astartes warrior and takes it back to his lab to find a way to lengthen his decaying lifespan, which he supposedly succeeded in by the end of the novel, when his Thunder warrior lieutenant asked him if he succeed in the process of genetic modification, to which Arik replies,”Yes, my son. it worked”. Also, to rationalize the name and iconography of the Minotaurs, Arik Taranis’ personal heraldry was a *RED BULL’S HEAD* surrounded by lightning bolts.
Can't thumbs up this enough
Cool theory
As cool as this is, BL would never do it. It changes the story beyond a level they are comfortable with.
What book
What does it change exactly? The Outcast Dead tells us that Thunder Warriors survived and all but flat out states that the Minotaur's chapter heraldry is based off of Arik Taranis' personal heraldry.
- Roboute guilliman yelling in the distance - cawlllll!!!! Explain
- belisarius cawl running like hell zoidbergily - woop woop woop woop woop
"01110111 01101111 01101111 01110000" Belisarius Cawl M41
lmao nice
This was great lol.
It wasn't me it was Cawl inferior 😂
woop
"so...what flaw we do want to remove in this founding?" "The Astartes are too friendly toward their enemies". "Hand me that classified sample of a Thunder Warrior we recovered recently..."
Inquisition: So we've been taking a look at this one chapter that seems very suspicious since you guys seem to classify everything about these guys.
High Lords: Do you know how BIG a pool you guys are asking to skim here? Our government is basically Confucius' worst nightmare.
Inquisition: Its the Minotaurs. Are you sure their gene-seed doesn't come from the forbi-
High Lords: Oh look! Abaddon has just slam dunked one of those black eight point eyesores right through Cadia! Now we got a gaping scare splitting the imperium in two. You lot better look into that.
Absolutely beautiful!
Slam dunked the black eight point eyeores through Cadia 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
So Iron Eaters, interesting.
Oml yes.
You are wrong , they are the World Warriors
M o n c h
@@septimuscrassus9519 I can hear some Manowar song .. .
@@septimuscrassus9519 sounds like a basketball team.
Remleiz, have you not read the HH novel The Oucast Dead yet? The last leg of the book hints HEAVILY at the Minotaurs being descendants of surviving Thunder Warriors whose built-in genetic degradation was fixed by Arik Taranis using gene-seed sourced from different legion marines. Hence the Minotaur's chimeric gene-seed. Arik's heraldry is described as a red bulls head. The colors of the two forces are identical according to artwork. The savagery was shared by Thunder Warriors. Minotaurs would be paranoid and hate other marines because of how they were killed off to be replaced by said marines. I keep seeing people chase their tails by thinking they are Iron Warriors, World Eaters, or a combination of each when one of the early HH novels all but outright stated the truth of their origins if one can read between the lines. You should really consider making a true pt.2 to this video and exploring the Thunder Warrior angle and theorizing on what Arik Taranis did between the events of the heresy and the first appearance of the Minotaurs chapter
I have not read that particular novel, I will admit. It does sound interesting however. Thank you for bringing this up to me ^_^
Your theory on the Thunder Warriors isn't bad but I think a closer look would be with Custodes.
Hmmm how so? I wouldnt expect marines somehow derived from Custodes creation methods to be bloodthirsty killing machines. Custodes creation is also totally different and is to an extent, unique to each Custodian. Custodes seem much more reserved and thoughtful in every action they perform, rather than borderline berserkers. Besides, there isnt really much aside from color scheme that links Minotaurs to Custodes. No lore that I have ever seen or heard of at least. Though maybe Ive missed something. Whereas I feel like half the reason The Outcast Dead was even written was to expand on Minotaurs origins. The book has a few bits of writing that are a little questionable when it comes to sticking with established lore like psykers and the strength of Custodes battleplate vs bare fists, but the emphasis on Arik Taranis and the remaining Thunder Warriors hiding out in the Petitioners City on Terra was amazing and I hope we get to see more of them soon
@@dannygelbart6827
Thunder Warriors aren't all that much bigger than standard Astartes, if not comparable in size to Primaris Marines. This means that while yes, TW gene seed may cause them to be larger than their kin in the Astartes, it wouldn't make them Custodes-level size and bulk, but almost Primaris-lite
@@BR4IN1N4J4R Thunder Warriors ARE much larger than standard Astartes no idea where you got that they aren't. They are supposed to be taller than Custodes as well who are taller still than Primaris Astartes.
@12:14
Emperor-DAMN that is one chonky pistol.
was thinking the same thing. lol
Big heresy calls for big bullets yo. :)
My vote’s for the XII Legion because the Minotaurs are basically the High Lords’s Attack Dogs
"Are we a joke to you" Pack Leader Brother Grau Wolff 🐺
I said Attack DOGS, not Attack Wolves
How about a theory concerning the fates of the loyalist members of the traitor legions that survived the HH?
What 'Loyalist Remnants'? They're all Ultramarines.
Many are suggested to have been formed into the knights errant, the pre-cursor to the grey knights chapter. However theirs also the theory of black shields, members within the death watch who hide their chapter origin
he has covered this through a few videos already.
I think deatwatch is full of ex traitors/loyalist from traitor chapter and i don t even talk about Fallen they must be in good number. In my personnal collection i did a deathwatch squat with H thunder hammer who are clearly world eaters ^^
I'm always impressed by the research and sourcing that goes into these. I could be a huge fan of WH40k for years and I bet I would still never read "Imperial Armour, volume 10, The Badab War, part 2"
You should. The Badab War two book series is excellent, and PDFs of it are easy to find these days.
The Ultimate legion against rebelling space marines?
I think the Emperor already created a chapter for that specific purpose... to serve as his Executioners.
Can't thumbs up this enough
Yep. Space Ulfs
saying alpha legion really weird
@@Ireland609 Alpha Legion is just CIA except even more psycho.
But as long as you think they are weird, there is sanity left in you.
The day they start to make sense... Well, just dont let them make any sense, ok?
We all know how shit Leman is when it comes to dealing with other Legions.
It is classified so writers can make shit up later.
Or not. Mystery is always welcome too.
I'm guessing its they're gene-seed is from one of the Lost Primachs.
@@MWH12085 Iron Warriors - Perturabo
- Alright brothers, the plan is-
- *Can we help?!*
- NO
Sounds like there’s gonna be a big custody battle between the high lords, the iron warriors and world eaters
I'll go Iron Warriors with a touch of World Eaters with a dash of lobotomy and a garnish of lapdogs.
Maybe Alpha Legion too. Check out the lore on their "leader" Asterion Moloc.
strangetonic Can you not? The Alpha Legion meme has been done to death.
@@crypto1223 I seriously don't care how often the "Alpha Legion meme" has been done, and if you have a problem with things being "done to death", you're in the wrong hobby.
The true alpharius was in your hearts all along.
So imporved thunder warriors?
They are Iron Warriors that stayed loyal, a *game-tester* confirmed this. Mino's were his chapter. His name is *Eadwine Brown*
Also for those wondering. If you read the Index Astartes, it points out that when needed, the Iron Warriors go into a berzerk fury the equivalent of the Blood Angels or World Eaters, however they have the ability to regain their composure, as if flipping a switch. This further matches up with the Minotaurs behaviors.
And in Horus Heresy (Black) Book 6, it is shown that the Iron Warriors developed specialized anti-Astartes forces, notably trained with heavy use of hypnoindoctrination and brain surgery
It can not be the Iron Warriors. The Minotaurs never dig ditches.
PoodleScone or mabye They do
And their just so deap its outside the planet again
I mean, Iron Warriors were known for using lots and lots of heavy artillery and being brutal close combat fighters, so that adds up.
Then again, what Legion wasn't brutal in CC?
They did, but soon realized it was a waste of time digging graves for all their slained enemies.
“I am very bitter and you are the reason”
They dig holes, it's just through their enemies' bodies.
I see my MooMarines, I click
Moooooo🐮🐮🐮
Wait wait wait, is that actually their nickname, because if so that's fracking hilarious.
I’m painting some moomarines. They look good
How about Word Eaters cut with Dark Angels to even it out; Highly secretive psychopaths.
Despite the evidence otherwise, black library probably says they're an 'Ultramarine Successor Chapter'.
That's most chapter's of unknown or suspicious heritage. It's also implied that the 2nd and 11th legions were absorbed into the ultramarines after their primarchs were erased.
Hey, those guys with the bull design? They really remind me of Angrons boys, you know, the Wor- They're Ultramarine Successor Chapters!
How about those guys over there? The ones with the Silver Skull on their shoulder, don't they remind you of Perturabo? And his Iro- They're Ultramarines too!!
We know that at least one chapter called Minotaurs are successors of Iron Warriors. The creator of the army said so himself,but it might not even be the same chapter called the minotaurs.
It makes you wonder what happened to the original
id say world eaters for sure, they are the high lords of terra's personal army
My money is on them being made as a sort of Astartes Counter-Chapter, but they were commissioned by the High Lords themselves. Anyone else would have been purged by the Inquisition.
VoiceOfTheEmperor Yo. Does the name Sev Tarov ring a bell? :p
@@jamesmacintyre9341 Yeah, why? You him?
VoiceOfTheEmperor yes.
For those wondering, allow me to clarify. There indeed are two chapters of Minotaurs
One uses iron Warrior geneseed & the other uses Chimeric geneseed
The Iron Warrior Minotaurs have been around since M32 and are the bronze armoured ones we know.
The Chimeric ones were the ones created in the Cursed Founding were the ones who disappeared in M38.
I feel they're loyalist Luna wolves descendants
How do you figure? Luna Wolves weren't anything like the Minotaurs. Luna Wolves were more like Ultramarines that dispensed with the formal shit and focused more on offense.
So they could be Iron Warriors with Butcher's Nails? That's a scary combination.
Erik Dreki “I am very bitter and you are the reason.”
*(Blood Thirsty Siege Scream)*
@@Audiotrocious "I am aware of . And I don't care" lol
I’d probably say they wouldn’t be. The tactics of the iron warriors require people make sure they know what their doing and above all not run into the enemy screaming. World eaters butchers nails would fuck that over.
There’s a reason apothecaries and psychers in the world eaters legion didn’t have them implemented.
Doubtful. It would make them FAR too unstable.
Do we even know how they make chimeric Gene Seed? (Fandom looks at Cawl and Fabius talking by a water cooler)
While a Drukhari Haemonculus just lurks off to the side and occasionally butts in with a terse sentence or two.
Lamenters: Mutated the gene that makes no one want to eat lunch with you
Black Dragons: Mutated some pretty sweet Logans
Minotaurs: Mutated into raging tards and the High Lords are their wranglers.
The spiteful, anti-astartes makes me lean heavily toward Iron Warriors. They even had similar rules at first when you compared Iron Warrior 30k rules and 7th Ed rules for Minotaurs.
Their geneseed is a mix of World Eaters and Heresy.
5:50 - A mix of Ultrasmurfs and Dark Angels. | 6:26 - Which resulted in mixed feelings, even by Traitor legion standards. | 7:53 - They'd be more stable due to lacking the Butcher's Nails. | 9:42 - They turned traitor because they weren't being appreciated. | So they're the World Warriors? Are their librarians capable of Shoyuken and Hadouken?
With the whole altered geneseed, it sounds possible that the Minotaur Astartes has a hybrid blend of two traitor's genes. Unlike the rumors of the Blood Ravens being related to the Thousand Sons, it might be interesting to see what the high lords of Terra have in hiding. It could also be possible that they're related to the Custodies but with flawed geneseed.
But the custodies do not have geneseed.
Each one is a bespoke creation, created from the ground up so there is no way the minotaurs could be related to the Custodies
According to the lore, the Minotaurs' chapter master, Asterion Moloc, may or may not be more than one guy. Who does that remind you of?
But they certainly don't behave like that guy(s)' legion.
In a way, they do, though, especially if you consider that there is a lot of overlap in geen-seed characteristics. For example, according to the lore, they seem to be secretive about the exact size of their chapter.
My personal theory about the meaning of "chimeric geen-seed" is not that the chapter's geen-seed is hybridized, but rather than the chapter uses a number of separate geen-seed lines, kind of like the "Unnumbered Sons" primaris marines. For example, suppose that they have some members with Iron Warriors geen-seed, some with Alpha Legion geen-seed, some with World Eaters geen-seed, etc., and they have some way of determining with aspirant should get implanted with which one.
(I know this comment is ancient) but the more I read about these guys the more I get the vibe that GW designed them specifically to be a chapter that players can say they descended from a traitor legion of their choice, they seem to have at least one thing suspiciously in common with a lot of them.
@@javierpatag3609 Alpha Legion has been know to do stand-up combat if they chose to.
Happy this finally came out, was wondering if that thread link would ever bear fruit
i love the Minotaurs they were my first army and is what got me fully into 40k! WE WILL PURGE YOU ALL!!!
Death Guard World Eater combo would be unstoppable.
The World-Eater's legion displays their high amounts of brutality because they are corrupted by Korn as well as the butcher's nails.
However a default uncorrupted space Marine of the World-Eater's would be the embodiment of the Emperor's compassion.
The World Eaters were known to have been exceptionally brutal by Space Marine standards, even before the implementation of Butcher's Nails (as stated within the Horus Heresy black books by Forge World).
I really love these in depth videos you do. I'm not much of a fan of the table top game, but the lore is amazing. Thanks for sharing.
Weren't the Iron Warriors, before being united with their gene father, known for answering all calls for aide, even those seen as beneath other Legiones Astartes? Seems at least similar to me.
My guess would be mix of blood angels and death guard. Blood angels were and still are quite savage and during the heresy were quite paranoid about anyone finding out about their flaw. While meeting the enemy dead on, with little care to surroundings (to the point that the world is not even habitable anymore) sounds like something Death guard are fond of.
Blood Angels are not paranoid. They have an actual reason to be worried about someone finding their flaw. Paranoia is being worried of being spied upon for no good reason.
My vote is with the world eaters being the source because from what I rememebr the warhounds we're still known as a brutal legion even before angron, and after angron the legion took on a Greek gladiator feel which meshes well with the Greek theme of the minotaurs. That last point may be to vague to be a point but sometimes subtlety is not GWs strong suite (the world eaters pre heresy war cry was "Blood for the primarch, skulls for the 12th legion")
Chimerical Iron Warriors/Worldeater mix
They are Thunder Warriors gene stock
Fourteen minutes of your pronunciation of Minotaur has me ready to enter a berserker rage.
It's the British pronunciation
youglish.com/search/Minotaur/uk
Isn't eliminating corrupt chapters the job of the Space Wolves already?
They are like Spartans but with less discipline and more animalistic like nature.
Any chapter suspicious in the eyes of the Inquisition is okay in my book.
I love how there are so many loyalist chapters which are all but explicitly stated to be descended from traitor legions. Minotaurs are World Eaters. Red Scorpions are Word Bearers. Carcharodons Astra are Night Lords. Blood Ravens are Thousand Sons.
40k Fans: "Home brew Space Marine chapters shouldn't be based off of traitor legions because reasons."
Black Library Authors: "Hold our beers!"
Don't forget the Sons of the Phoenix, Sons of Antaeus and (possibly) the Soul Drinkers.
And Cawl's more than likely making more from Traitor Gene-Seed, given his casual tech-Heresy in making an A.I.
@@randomcenturion7264 Oh yeah, there's a bunch of 'em. I just hit a few highlights.
War hounds without a doubt.. Endryd Haar comes to mind
I am posting from Cretacia and I see no problem with the Minotaurs
Primaris of Iron Warriors and World Eaters would make sense for Minotaurs for sure
What do you think about Thunder Warriors connection theory?
Obviously they were made by mixing legions II and XI, that way we can never know who they came from.
World eaters/iron warriors is a potent mix
I am going with the War Hounds. . . er, World Eaters. The Minotaurs are not as crazed as the World Eaters under the influence of the Butchers' Nails.
Wait, maybe not. . .
Let's go through the legions with paranoia issues:
1st, 4th, 7th, 6th, 14th, 19th, 20th Legions.
I might argue that the Minotaurs in fact bear more resemblance to the 14th, being disdainful of other legions, siege breakers, brutal, forbidden gene stock, and resilient. It could also be the fact that I just finished "The Buried Dagger" however. Who knows?
I think that 4th, 12th, and 14th are the best candidates however. I think that the High Lords would consider that the 12th was likely to fall to Chaos whether or not Angron went off of the deep end. Their natures were susceptible to Khorne.
The 14th legion however was only taken by treachery to Nurgle's bosom. If not for Typhon, it wasn't happening.
Besides, you know that the High Lords love using astartes as chattel, like they did with the 3rd before Fulgrim's return. The 14th's stock make great meat grinding.
Nails? Who needs nails? Have a look at the Carcharadon. They are crazed and brutal without any butchers nails. well maybe they have a hawaiian surfboard up their brain causing the same rage.
@@phreakazoith2237 as a carcharadon player I take umbridge to that statement.
Go on Jeremy Kyle - He'll tell you who your dad is.
Their dad is their uncle then. Who also had an affair with their grandmother who turns out to be MY transgender father who was originally my brothers sister who also fucked the neighbour's dog in return for a mars bar and a snort of a line of bone powder.
Im not even gonna try and work out what I just told you!!!
Jeremy Kyle: The Lost and the Damned.
Minotaurs are maybe Belisarius Cawls first prototypes of new space marinea.
Minotaurs are the high lords personal executors the emperor had the Space Wolves.
They wanted a personal force to go kill shit other astartes or military forces couldn't or wouldn't
Hence the classified, hence the best gear, hence terra as a recruitment world
Hey theory you know I’ve always seen that giant circle thing in 40k lore vids but what does the giant void placed spinny thing do and what is it? I’m honestly curious it’s at 5:37
It's the 18 legions on the outer ring and the inner ring is the Imperium and chaos (I think) rotating around each other
DaimoMusic but what does it mean why was it made WHY
@@saxon2846 it is probably a small bit of filler for when there isn't enough images to use. Or symbolically how the Imperium and chaos need one another and the 18 legions are there playthings
@@saxon2846 What do you mean why was it made? It's just a graphic to be used as B-roll when he doesnt have any other visual aid to show.
If they are chimeric then they would probably be loyalist mixed with traitor not traitor mixed with traitor. Like iron warriors and ultramarines or world eaters and fists. To try and "balance" the geneseed.
Gotta be Luna Wolves. Look at the emblem, replace horns with moon. Either that, or it's a legion that began with thunder warriors. That's the only explanation I have for their agression and mis trust of every other organization but theirs. And the Emperor, of course.
I was listening to the Raven Guard Novels and Brazen Minotaur's where in one of the stories. Really cool how then RG paid back a debt to them without them knowing so they could go and do their thing vs traitors. It was like the RG knew directly trying to help a bull in a china shop was dumb all they need to do is lead the bull to the china shop and let him do his thing.
I’ve always thought that, since there seems to have been a post heresy era chapter with the same name and doctrine, and that the current leader of the Minotaurs seems to have always been the leader of the Minotaurs, that the Minotaurs are one of the lost legions who suffered massive casualties in the heresy, and in the 21st founding received a bulk of new recruits to make up for what was likely crippling losses and possibly crippling levels of mutation
Put me down for primarily World Eaters with some Iron Warriors, Blood Ravens (that kleptomania has to come from somewhere) and Ultramarines for balance. On that same note, I think the Space Sharks are a cross between Raven Guard (Ashen Claws successor chapter, specifically) and World Eaters.
My idea as the cursed founding had Cawl involved with these chapters being founded and were all most likely early field test for cawls primaris project but mostly failed, except the monitors who he could have taken to study and learn what he got right, and Cawl had asked for permission for using gene seed from all 20 primarchs but he was denied. Knowing Cawl he would do it anyway.
Very Great video as always 40k Theories.
Honshu: I Am Bitter! And I am The Reason Why...
Based Iron Eaters Chapter.
My favourite chapter. I had Dark Angels and Chaos space marines in 2004 lol. I just started playing 40k again last year with my son using the Minotaurs chapter Vs Orks which my 8 year old son likes
World Eaters + one of lost legions? Ultramarines (at time, by far most popular and stable gene seed) + World Eaters / Night Lords ?
Taking the meaning of the term "Bullheaded" very literally
It's good to see the crimson and bronze again.
A healthy mix of Thunder Warriors, Iron Warriors, World Eaters and a bit of Luna Wolves in it.
I’m a little late but there is another legion famed for its savagery: the space wolves. While the current stock of gene seeds can’t be implanted in anyone other then fenrisians the vaults in terra could have a less degraded stock. They also might not, leading for the need to hybridize the gene seed to stabilize the space wolves genes, possibly ness estimating the need to mix it with another legion. I’m thinking dark angels for stability, but perhaps space wolf-dark angel didn’t work so they did pull out some traitor gene seed and it worked. I’d like world eaters and space wolves but you make a good point about iron warriors. With their manic personalities and secrets though they could be mixed with alpha legion as well, but they have other genetic flaws the Minotaurs don’t have. Anyway it’s a stretch but i like it.
3:36 40K Theories dropping bars
Very curious what the Custodes thoughts are.
They're basically revealed to be Iron Warriors now.
I think that the their gene seed could be from the Iron Warriors World eaters and one of the lost legions or primarily from one of the lost legions are maybe both.
I can't say i know enough about either chapter to make a conplete theory on this, but perhaps they are an iron warriors/dark angels hybrid. Both would reinforce their paranoid and secretive behavior, the iron warriors would reinforce their military doctrine while dark angels would ensure their loyalty. It may be perhaps that the reason they fight orher astartes is a way of continuing the dark angels hunt for the fallen, hoping to find clues through other traitor chaptors, instead of them being directly under control of the high lords.
I think Rogal Dorn created the Minotaurs to incorporate the battlefield virtues he was made a victim of, when fighting the iron warriors traitor legion, during his battles within the iron cage. Dorn and his Imperial Fists were near slaughtered within this moon-sized death trap, The Iron Cage, designed by the Iron Warriors to test and destroy the Fists, ultimately proving Iron Warriors tactical superiority.
The Iron Warriors gambit failed, but I think Dorn recognised the ingenuity present in the traitor legions attempt. I think Dorn spliced Fists and Iron Warriors gene-seed hoping his own DNA might check any deficient traits found within the traitor stock. Dorn, acting as his alias, The Captin General of the Custodes - a position which grants him a seat among the high lords of terra - supplies, directs and manages the Minotaurs chapter.
The Minotaur was originally a half-man, half-beast, lost within a great prison-maze and I think it was within the maze of The Iron Cage that the inspiration for the Minotaurs chapter was born.
7hi5 on3 daaaamnnnn never thought of that but actually work. And I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks the Custodes Lord is Dorn.
@@anerd2886 Another thing which supports this theory is the prevalence of power-spears within the Minotaurs chapter. A weapon usually only found amongst the Custodes.
@@7hi5on35 Minotaur is Greek mythology. Care to remember weapon of Greek Hoplite / Phalanx? :) And as much as I love theory about Dorn, I don't think you can hide Primarch for so long, especially one such as Dorn. Though theory about origin in MAZE under Imperial Palace.... hm.....
I feel like the Minotaurs Geneseed might be a mix of Iron Warriors and World Eaters
Probably a triple hybrid of two traitor legions (Iron Warriors and World Eaters) and a lost legion (IX could be for Celestial Suns).
I kinda assumed they were a splinter of the wolves from their executioner stylism
I've seen theory's that moloc is or was a custodes .
Would make some sense as even valerian was not sure if he could beat said warrior
Love your videos!
Minotaurs are frigging dope! That is all. Thank you.
Paranoid , yet the first to rush to reinforce and aid... something doesn't add up.
Could the original Minotaurs be the chapter of one of the lost primarchs?
Well now we know that they are Iron warriors. Thanks, Regent or Terra book
Would love a theory on the current Raptor chapter and the old Raptor chapter, if there is anything that could explain how they became so incredible reasonable in their operations
World Eaters?
Iron Warriors?
Fok me, I'm scared.
Do you have a video about this cursed founding?
Death Guard/Imperial Fists Hybrid marines. Eat your heart out Perty!
Perhaps they can trace their lineage to a specific and unique individual of the XII Legion: Endryd Haar. When the XII were first created, it believed that Endryd Haar was 'not stamped from the same moll', being larger and stronger than any other astartes, (he is noted for killing a Thunder Warrior by breaking his neck!!) When Angron was unwillingly reunited with his sons, Haar refused to have, or otherwise avoided having, the Butchers Nails implanted; he didn't need them. Later he led a warband of Blackshields called the Fangs of the Emperor that would go on to fight in the Battle of Terra, with even Malcador taking not of his 'killer among killers' prowess. Given his near 'proto-astartes' status and his loyalty to the Emperor, it would make sense that, one day, the high lords would get round to making some Fangs of the Emperor and Endryd Haars of their own. Endryd Haar mixed with some Garviel Loken
Theory: The Minotaurs travelled back in time
I wonder it the Minotaurs is going to survive, as their gene-seeds has been tainted by the Death Guard.
As much as I think they're assholes for being tools of the most corrupt and incompetent part of the Imperium (The High Lords) it would be a shame to lose them. They are loyal, powerful and, unlike the other most hated Chapter, the Marines Malevolent, they look so badass.
I doubt we'll hear about them for some time because it takes forever to advance the storyline, but given how effective Nurgle is with plagues, I think the Minotaurs are doomed.
These Minotaurs look cool but they need more cowbells.
Well the Mainatour chapter is like a leashed dog and the HLOT are the master. I personally understand it like this because they react quickly and push into the maw of the enemy without a second thought.
6:14 hybreds or a mix of astartes lineages in the same chapter?