I've always been intrigued by the Mirror Universe, even though I would probably die there in a matter of minutes because I'd tick off the wrong person. Which would be literally anyone.
Magical Fungi I agree. Don't overdo it. It could be a multi-parter like how Enterprise did, or maybe 1 to 3 separate episodes. At most maybe a season-wide arc dedicated to a mirror universe incursion.
"Or when Worf kept jumping around between parallel universes." Technically, he didn't "keep jumping" ... it would be like if you had a stack of papers, but when you try to draw a line you accidentally get deeper and deeper into the paper as you progress. Each one is just slightly off from the previous one, and it's in a pretty much straight line. It was only when the bottom paper and the top paper were combined that it was obvious just how far off he had drifted.
It was the same timeline but it had wound up going round in a loop, As Worf put it, There is the theory of the Mobius, a tear in the fabric of space, where time becomes a loop from which there is no escape
[appears as a woman] not again....I love the Quantum Leap.....so awesome and did you catch that one episode of Enterprise where Dead Stockwell [Al on QL] played a prison warden holding a bunch of Suluban?? good stuff
The Next Generation episode "Parallels" says exactly the same thing as the conclusion of this video. Any story in Star Trek is true in an alternate universe. "Parallels" had hundreds of thousands of slightly different versions of the Enterprise in separate alternate realities.
great American repuplic alt history; agreed. Every alternate reality in Star Trek history from fluid space to the Kelvin timeline could probably be reached through the quantum gateways created in "parallels".
They should have a "Holo-novel" series of books that are just a way for authors to write in-universe fictional stories. That way, they can explore different concepts and stories, without screwing up Beta Cannon.
One thing you mentioned was the Mirror Universe timeline, but with an emphasis on the split from the prime timeline being that of First Contact. Apparently you did not watch the opening of the episode of Enterprise, because if you had, you would know that timeline began much earlier; at least at the beginnings of WW2. It is my thought that this too had its beginning with the TOS episode 'City on the Edge of Forever', when McCoy went back to before World War 2 and saved a woman that was originally killed by getting hit by a truck. Yes the Guardian of Time said the timeline had been fixed when Kirk and Spock followed McCoy back to prevent what he would do once he arrived; however, the Guardian never said that the new timeline had ceased to exist. Therefore that would seem to me to be when the Mirror Universe split from the Prime Universe. This is evident in the Enterprise episode 'Through a Mirror Darkly', in which the opening credits show an alternate history showing that the allies had lost WW2. The events in which Zephram Cochrane killed the commander of the Vulcan ship certainly happened long after that.
I mentioned that the earliest reference to the Terran Empire is in 1955 (4:35), but I do like the idea of the divergence being even further back. It suggests that most alternate universes are the result of interference in the timeline, including the MU. :)
Sir the Prime Universe and the Mirror Universe is own Universe there is NO TIME Alternation. The Mirror have no time split mess it going it own path. It is parallel universe/Mirror to the Prime Universe.
Sophia Wilson That is what was surmised by Spock in 'Mirror Mirror', but even he could be wrong, and very often was wrong. Another thing surmised by Spock was the existence of time divergence, as he had built a rudimentary machine that could access the records of the Guardian of Time in City on the Edge of Forever, and used it to help him pin down where the change in history had occurred. I'm not telling you that you are wrong or right here. Just that in Star Trek, causality has much to do with the consequences of time travel, and even moving sideways in time can be a part of that. Do you think that in Mirror Mirror, both timelines did not diverge due to the transporter malfunction that switched the versions of Kirk,McCoy, Uhura, and Scott? I submit to you that indeed it had to. Just the interactions of the involved people affect how time will progress in a given history, or as in the case of these two timelines, two given histories. In The Next Generation, an episode brought back Lt.Yar, when a temporal rift brought the Enterprise C forward in time. At that moment the prime timeline diverged prior to the event that brought the earlier ship forward in time. Lt.Yar found out that she was supposed to be dead, and learned that her death had been meaningless, so she decided to return to the Enterprise C's time to make her death actually count for something. As we all know, that caused yet another divergence, and her daughter was the product of that, in which she was half Romulan and half human. She served the Romulan Star Empire, and became a thorn in the sides of the captain and crew of the Enterprise D. Yet another TNG episode was one in which several timelines began to converge, with there being dozens of alternate histories depicted. Most of the other timelines were not good for the Federation in their own timelines. My point in mentioning these episodes is to point out that even the Mirror Universe had to begin somewhere. The TOS episode 'City on the Edge of Forever' is the most likely scenario that could have caused its divergence from the prime timeline. This is evident in the episode of Enterprise 'Through a Mirror Darkly', because it shows how WW2 was won by Hitler in that timeline, which is an event that occurred after that in which McCoy had saved a woman from being killed. Let me point out that in that episode we could see the divergent timeline as it was displayed by the Guardian of Time, and it showed that Hitler had won the war. See where I'm going with this? The woman McCoy had saved was at the divergence point of two timelines. If she died, the allies would win, but if she lived due to interference by McCoy, Hitler would win. Since in the episode both things had occurred, both timelines became a reality. Once a timeline is established, it cannot be undone. The real task of the well meaning time traveler is to find the way back to his/her own timeline, which is what I think happened when Kirk and Spock prevented McCoy from saving the woman.
Don't forget the Next Generation's timeline where life on earth may have never got a start at all in the past, because of a reversing rip in time out of the future. It had to be sealed by 3 ships working together, each ship from different points in time.
3 things I would like to see coming out of the Star Trek Universe and find their way to series: 1. An off shoot series telling the story of the Borg like what politics and/or events led them to become the Borg, yes we all know what the Borg are but it would had been very interesting to explore that aspect of the Star Trek Universe. 2. A series that uses the NX-59650 (USS Prometheus) as it's protagonist vessel and it's crew. 3. And finally the futuristic USS Enterprise that was depicted on the "The Enterprise" series that's it's mission was about the Temporal Cold War.
Heres the thing. As much as these would be cool. The next series that is being made is nothing what we wanted.... I mean have you seen the ship design. It looks like the saucer would be ripped off at warp 2.5. ....
Agree, a series about how the Borg started would be ....fascinating. (Although my bet is that it was because they got introduced to smartphone technology....)
As an alternate seeing the development, building and launch of the Promethius (#2) would be interesting leading to the Romulans taking control of it and the results after the 2 emhs defeat them at least as a point of reference until Promethius class is common in the Federation would be interesting. As an arc variation a history of the mirror universe would be interesting, but lead it on as directly by the characters. Have an alternating view of the "Rebels" and the "Empire" with characters of each filling in the the events of the 'other side' in turn between switching. Leading first to the development of the Rebellion and any affects to it (including what *section 31* here would be) as well as how they still exist and expand despite the Empire and eventually the fall of the Empire to the Klingon/Cardassian Alliance until at least temporally the last DS9 intervention of Mirror universe history.
Does the "all good things" ending vs the Nemesis ending count as a divergence? Personally I like the way they concluded the series with Data becoming a professor and stuff, rather than just dying.
Personally, I have to say the Mirror Universe is the most interesting of them all. I read all of the follow-on books about the Mirror Universe, right through the death of Emperor Spock and his Consort Marlena. I found that Star Trek: Enterprise section of the alternate universe was quite good, with the dynasty of Empress Hoshi Sato. I'm not a fan of the new JJ Abrams Kelvin timeline stuff. I find it kind of disrespectful. I wouldn't mind seeing an anthology version of the Mirror Universe episodes tied together, with more of TNG added in. The comparison of Roddenberry's classic Federation ethos to the savage, militaristic Terran Empire is also a cautionary tale, which is what he obviously intended when Mirror/Mirror was shown. I never get tired of it.
If Mirror Spock was a thing in the JJverse he'd likely have to be a saint as JJ-spock is a nut case. I'd actually rather have a Mirror George Kirk story than have a Time Travel one for JJverse Movie 4.
i know its a point of conjecture but always assumed the divergence point for the mirror universe was the roman empire, and that it never fell in the mirror timeline. in through a mirror darkly archer says he wont let "these people destroy an empire that has endured for centuries", it fits better than anything else.
Just found this video and I think it's great, fabulous and well thought out, as well as addictive. Count me in as a big fan of your work. I MUST HAVE MORE........
Despite not liking the new movies, I like how they add different timelines, if there were a way for theme to collide in a comic or something, that would be pretty cool
I was doing some thinking about the Mirror Universe, Kelvin Timeline, and the Prime timeline, and I came up with a crazy idea: The temporal interference of the Borg and the Enterprise-E in First Contact was actually a predestination paradox that prevented the Terran Empire's formation and Cochrane's killing of the Vulcan ambassador from happening and caused what the Prime Timeline to turn out like it did. In the Kelvin Timeline, the same predestination paradox occured, but sometime between first contact and the construction of the USS Franklin, there was some technological boost that caused the Franklin and anything built after it to have more advanced tech than the Prime Timeline equivalents.
I have to hand it to whoever came up with the idea of splitting the timelines: it is a great way of having your cake and eating it too! It makes me think of how Star Wars powers that be could have done something more creative than just retcon the expanded universe.
🖖😎👍 Very totally wonderfully cool and very nicely greatly well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on "Alternate Star Trek"; A job very nicely fabulously well done indeed Sir!👌.
Recently I've been making my own roleplay universe set in the year 2406 and many things were changed from the Prime Timeline like the classic Galaxy, Intrepid, and many other ships being recommissioned because it doesn't make sense to decommission an Enterprise after not even 20 years. I'm using word document to house the starships, characters, and other stuff to keep it tidy. That's why you've also gotta have that Romulan Ale handy in-case of alternate timelines. Oh, yeah and I brought the E back in 2402 instead of the trash G.
The Fan Fiction "Starship Farragut" explains the creation of the mirror universe. In the episode "For Want Of A Nail", A Farragut landing party, led by the captain is transported back to the day before the Battle of Trenton in the revolutionary war, but not in their timeline, but a parallel one. They managed to get transported out, but Washington saw them depart. The closing scene shows Washington sticking a dagger into an apple core and leaving the apple and dagger behind when he leaves the room. It was rather chilling as the camera slowly zoomed in on the apple and dagger.
Magical Fungi You are correct. It's not. And that may not be the canon explanation. Frankly we don't know what the canon explanation is. So until it is released, it's as good a theory as any.
The canon theory was that it started to be created near the end of WW2 and proceeded to grow and reached its peak after Zefram Cochrane's flight when he shot a Vulcan.
Volorus To'Rak (thetricker01) I think it may have been before that. I've just rewatched the title scene of "In A Mirror Darkly", and it starts in the Age of Sail. True that the Terran Empire symbol (the Dagger in the Planet) isn't shown until World War II, but things don't spring up overnight. There had to have been a lot of history that lead up to that. Therefore it is still possible that the causal event that started it happened in the 1700's during the revolutionary war. We just don't know for sure.
The mobile game "Star Trek: Timelines" is another case of universal splits...starring you, the player, and Q. You have to gather up folks & ships from all the series (TOS including the movies, TNG including the TNG era movies, DS9, Voyager, & Enterprise); not sure if it includes the Kelvin timeline.
Just found your channel today and I'm really enjoying it. Nice video. I wouldn't mind seeing you do a comprehensive breakdown of the Mirror Universe, including the Mirror Universe Saga from the comics, the books, all the fun DS9 episodes and even the information from Star Trek Online. The Mirror Universe is definitely one of my favorite things about Star Trek. I love that we got to see the two-parter of Enterprise as if we were watching the series in the Mirror Universe.
I personally like the idea that the Kelvin timeline is a different timeline all together because of the size of the USS Kelvin and the weapons the Kelvin is armed with and that the timeline changed around the time of the Romulan War.
I personally prefer the theory that Discovery takes place in the Kelvin timeline, with the Kelvin timeline simply being another mirror universe in the Star Trek timeline. It would explain the hightened technology and the many, many continuity issues.
In DS9, there is a discrepancy in the mirror universe plot where Klingons don't have a cloaking device. However, in an earlier episode, we see them being used (at least on Cardassian ships). This, and any other plotholes, can be explained by them being completely different universes. With an infinite number of parallel universes, who's to say 50 Kiras didn't visit 50 other Kiras? Then who's to say that they latter visited the exact same universes? Why not have Kira-alpha visit DS9-beta, while Sisko-alpha latter gets dragged to DS9-gamma; and even later, Quark-alpha to DS9-delta?
True but its too messy for fans to keep track of that. I think Prime and mirror prime must be joined like twins or something to keep them going back to same universes.
+Daniel Bennett My theory is that those two realities are "glued" together. For whatever reason, they are intrinsically tied together and no matter how they diverge when someone crosses over, they will inevitably mirror each other again. That's how I explained the Terran Empire getting technology from the future yet being no further ahead of the Federation 100 years later.
The MIRROR UNIVERSE is a linked alternate time lime concurrent to Prime. It is NOT an expression of MULTIVERSE. Now I am EXTREMELY well versed in DS9 as Roddenberry does better at Applied Theology then Utopian Fallicy. DID YOU KNOW RODDENBERRY WAS INSPIRED BY THE COUNCIL OF NINE. NON COPOREAL ENITIES THAT HAVE PLAYED THE PARTS OF ALL GODS OF ATLEAST THE LAST SIXTY THOUSAND YEARS SINCE THEY WERE FIRST REFRENCED IN AUSTRALIAN SPIRITUALISM AS THE ONES WHO DREAMED THE WORLD INTO BEING AND STILL CONNECT THROUGH DREAM TO THEM. Dont believe me. Look it up it was a government run channeling coven that invited Gene to speak with them and is referenced by many disparaging sources. Including GOV DOCUMENTS. Sorry side track. What episode and approximate episode time did the mirror universe have a cloak before the Nagus' folly
I'm pretty sure I've missed enough of the series that I'm wrong and you're right, but where's the plothole? How does "Cardassians have cloaked ships" somehow require that Klingons will have cloaking technology in the future?
As a trek fan since I was a child, I first had issues but after seeing what they did I liked it. Would personally like to see the next movie deal with mirror universe. It could be prime mirror or kelvin.
At the beginning. Don't forget that the star was in the same sector as Romulus...but the star (supernova) was light years away from Romulus. Something happened to cause it to go super...and travel in subspace.
The Mirror Universe diverged from the prime timeline at some earlier point. Possibly when Zefrem Cochrane, having never met Riker, Troi, Data, and Geordi, shot a visiting Vulcan with a 12 Gauge Shotgun loaded with #00 Buckshot. It's also possible that the mirror timeline was created in the early 1930's when Dr McCoy saved Edith Keeler allowing Nazi Germany to win WWII and take over the world. One of the theories of alternate timelines, which has been voiced in Star Trek, is that an infinite number of realities are created when every possible outcome of every event in every person's life all happen. There was a Next Gen episode which centered on the phenomenon happening to Worf.
Brilliant thought in regards to Edith Keeler! Based on the opening credits of the Mirror Universe "Enterprise", the Terran Empire has been going on long before "first contact". Just to think that Dr. McCoy is the reason why the "mirror" universe exists is an interesting thought. I rather prefer that everything in the Mirror Universe just be completely opposite throughout time.
There's a lot to like about that, and the opening credits of the two part "Enterprise" episode definitely show that the parallel timeline existed far before First Contact, since the Terran Empire existed at the time of the Lunar Landings. A thought just occurred to me. What if, in the JJ Universe, the Enterprise travels to the Guardian of Forever, but McCoy jumps back to ancient times and cures the great plague before, or somehow prevents the Magna Carta from being signed, which leads to the timeline that results in the Terran Empire.
There was a TNG novel, Dark Mirror, which posits that humanity is just "different" in the mirror universe, with even works of Shakespeare having different outcomes to fit the nature of the mirror universe. IIRC, Picard stands in for his mirror universe counterpart. He finds that, in the mirror universe version of Merchant of Venice, one of the characters was literally given "a pound of flesh" from another.
No the Mirror universe did not diverged the prime universe time it runs it own accord. The only time mess was the ship from 100 years in future form the prime universe.
"Sulu's" -deeply... satisfyed- smug smile... coresponding with your audio narration vocabulary at that specific point; also combined with the somewhat common, pedestrian-level knoledge of George Takei's "preferennces" ('Me too'... involverment)- made me absolutely fuckin crack up laughing! Best belly laugh Ive had in a season! Mr. Rick- you have a great, subtle, classy informed-manner of wit that -just- manages to fly under the radar of the soul-deystroying, fun-killer vultures of "S-Jaay dubbya" censorship armada- thank the stars above.... a wit that I GREATLY appreciate. you should give a sci-fy kommedy vid a try at least once or twice; even under an AKA if it helps.... Thanks for all your efforts, and your informed, shiny, "Slick Rick" videos! Sincerely- JGM
u forgot how the sphere builders messed with the kelvin timeline since the 2200's. It was (according to star trek online) already separate because the damn xindi were never backed by the sphere builders. Turns out they only existed in the prime timeline, BUT came in sometime before star trek beyond and used the Klingons. You can reference the STO yesterday's war missions.
Great summary and also a fantatic point about the future of Trek. I think everyone connects to their own parts of the Trek universe. However, to keep Trek alive, to inspire like TOS did, it has to adapt. Your point about alternate timelines giving the freedom to create relevant and popular Trek material is spot on. Curious though, at what point does it reach saturation and utter confusion that it is no longer coherent?
If you have a headache trying to figure this subject out and explaining it in a 'logical manner', I don't blame you. One should take Janeway's advice on this matter, as seen on Voyager: Don't bother thinking about it. Later and best wishes.
Question: Why would spock have that much black matter on board? Question: Why would Nero wait years before coming after spock. He could have warned Romulus high command. Question: Wouldn't have the temporal time cops correct the timeline. What about the events surrounding the The City on the Edge of Forever and Spocks travel in the animated series
Oh yeah! I totally forgot to factor in that alternate universe when the Federation was still at war with the Klingons. Restoring it change the prime universe because Tasha Yar would die a different way and give way to that half Romulan child she has who's a recurring villain.
Well the one I would have liked to see continue, is a series called simply "warlords" the pilot was aired on upn, it was a very unique take on a British solar sailing warship with all other ships being of the combustion type, sadly I am not aware of any surviving copy of the pilot
I really appreciate the alternate Timeline paradigm because i very strongly believe that after WW2 we are experiencing exactly that phenomena in our reality, we could not be where we are without an exterior intervention! :)
After watching "Star Trek Beyond", I think Spock Prime & the Narada didn't just travel back in time, but they hopped universes, too. Note some of the things Scotty was saying about the capabilities of the Franklin. The Enterprise NX-01 was faster than the newer Franklin (NX-326). The NX-01 used a flat panel view screen, whereas the Franklin was using a glass window panel view screen. The Franklin was still using "spatial" torpedoes, when the NX-01 began using "photonic" torpedoes at the beginning of her mission into the Delphic Expanse -prior to the signing of the Federation Charter. The newer Franklin was the first starship to break Warp 4; the older Enterprise was the first to break Warp 5. Kelvin Universe Khan spoke with an English accent & is as pale as an Irishman in the dead of winter. Khan Prime speaks with a Mexican accent yet still isn't dark enough in skin tone to pass as someone from India.
I don't know if anyone is interested in the subject but when did The Prime Trek Universe diverge from our own? 1966? We obviously never had the Eugenics Wars in the 1990s. Someone more versed in Trek lore and such could make an interesting chart or it could be an interesting episode in some future(hopefully) Trek show.
Honestly, anything works great as long as I never have to see (much less contemplate) the TNG series ending two-parter! No need to explore the Troi-Worf relationship yet again....and I definitely never want to see Jon Luc in his PJ's asking peep's for the correct time....to include the year, ever again. But as far as the alt timelines explanation goes.....I suppose you have earned a "good job mate" with this one. :)
Kirk was an Iowa farm boy, because his father was a farmer and not a Star Fleet officer. So how did that change? My guess would be the ripple effect. When you throw a pebble into water ripples go out in all directions. So no only is the future changed, but some of the past as well (such as Kirk's father and Spock's sister Micheal)
4:20 hmmm... makes me wonder how the kelvin mirror universe ships look like, knowing how powerful the kelvin timeline ships are...holy christ would it pack a punch.
It's all timey wimey to me. Interestingly humoress. I am sure there are people that will argue with you but it was interesting to see it laid out as best as can be done. Q did it for sure. I was disappointed in the fact that Enterprise 1701A was built in "Beyond" because in the original, the Enterprise had made a name for itself before it was destroyed. The reboot still had a few years to go before it earned that right. Most I visited with agreed, many of us cried during Star Trek 3 when the Enterprise went down, but they have destroyed it and other Enterprise starships since then so much it is like fixing a model airplane. Live long and enjoy Star Trek, happy 50th.
The event seen in the movie isn't the only point of divergence though. The movie First Contact introduced the Federation to the Borg at a much earlier point in history than Picard's crew originally encountered them. This means that there are actually two points in this new history where they've had encounters with future technology and would be able to use that technology to advance technology a lot faster than in the original time line. This is why Kirk's ship, communicators, phasers, and everything else in the JJ Abrams movies looks so much more advance than it did in the original series... well also because the movies are being made in a time when we are far more technologically advanced than we were when the original series was made but this is an in story explanation for the advanced future technology existing in the past. Star Trek Enterprise would be on the same time line as the JJ Abrams movies because the series takes place I believe 100 years before Kirk. There was probably a Captain Archer in the original time line who probably had a much different looking ship because again, the original time line never had to deal with the Borg till Picard but the Archer we see is from a time line where the Borg time traveled to be at Human's first contact with the Vulcans. Everything after warp technology was first invented has been changed ever since First Contact. The original time line where there were no Borg, and the alternate time line where Picard and his crew showed up to fight the Borg in the past. Basically the current time line was already on a different course before Spock even showed up. They really only put that in the movie as an excuse for Leonard Nimoy to make cameos. It doesn't actually explain why their technology is so far ahead of the Prime time line because they seemed to be more advanced before Spock even showed up. That's because of First Contact that the new time has taken such a drastically different course. Spock might of changed things even more after he showed up but that time line would of gone in a new directly without him.
This then leads to the natural question. Did the Terran empire timeline ALSO experience their OWN Kelvin incident. Would that drive the splinter timeline to be HYPER militaristic? I mean this can go on ad nauseum, but it's a fun thought.
I really would like the _"Canon" Mirror Universe_ (if there is such a thing) version of Picard to have been captured at a young age by Romulans, possibly with many others, and basically give him Shinzon's origin, but he's not a clone. It's just Mirror Picard, and he's a dangerous uppity Prick... But he's still Loyal to Remus and therefore a very dangerous adversary of the *Terran Empire.*
If there's one thing I would enjoy watching Star trek again, is the confusing time lines. If I was in the star trek universe, I'd make time quantum physics a major XDD
YES, THANK YOU!!!! I did enjoy this video. It also helped me to be a little more forgiving of JJ Abrams. I will no longer classify the new Star Trek as an Abortion similar to the SyFy Abortion known as Battlestar Galactica. So as I understood it, the old Star Trek was not wiped out but it is a parallel universe. Maybe now I can enjoy the new Star Trek. I did enjoy the 1st and the 3rd ones but was a tad bit miffed at #2.
Thanks for the update, I wasn't aware Discovery was supposed to take place in the Prime Timeline. This gives me some hope that Gene Roddenberry's original premise will live on.
I believe everything will be resolved at a later time when the Kelvin time line is restored to the prime time line. Janeway encounter Starfleet from the future that corrects the time line.
About the Kelvin Timeline: there are things in the Kelvin Timeline that indicate that, while the series continued as it would have in the years preceding the Narada's emergence, there was a technological advancement in the Kelvin Timeline much earlier than it would have been in the Prime Reality, and that ocurred seemingly before the Narada's emergence. This has led me to think that it's not just an alternate timeline that got skewed because someone from the future changed it, but an actual alternate reality, where it turned out different even before someone from the future screwed with time.
Also, the Constitution-class that was being constructed at the beginning of the 2009 reboot was actually NOT the Enterprise: If you look closely at the registration number on the starboard nacelle of the ship being built, the unfinished registry number is painted to have the expected NCC-17-- registry with two zeroes following the number 7, marking the ship as the NCC-1700 instead of the Enterprise, which we all know bears the designation NCC-1701.
Kelvin UNIVERSE. No matter what Abrams or Paramount say to VAGUELY agree with him, it cannot be a different timeline. it's an Alternate Universe. Paramount can't risk losing all of its fan base because they went ahead with a different timeline that destroyed 50 years of canon.
I want to think the kelvin timeline got the chance to explore the borg tech that survived the borg ship destruction from the TNG movie. And that's why the constution class starship in the kelvin timeline is bigger and more "advanced" the in the TOS. It would also explain why the NX class ship they used in the more recent movie was a bit more advanced then we seen in the tv series enterprise.
Demonstrating the ship's actual scale on screen (larger version) versus what it was meant to be (smaller version). I think the size difference was because the shuttle bay set in the 2009 movie was larger than the VFX team could scale on the CGI model.
There was *ONE MAJOR TIMELINE* that changed the *PRIME TIMELINE* that no ones talking about. In the episode of ST: TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise", some point Enterprise of Picard went into a parallel universe along with Gideon (Whoopie Goldberg) where the Klingons were at war with the Federation & defeating them cause a ship called Enterprise entered from a time warf. On the bridge of Picards Enterprise, Worf was replaced by Tarsha Lar, who died earlier in the primeline. Gideon was also on this Military Enterprise and came on the Enterprise AFTER Tarsha Lar's death. *SO, LONG STORY SHORT....* Tarsha Lar goes back in time with the old Enterprise. Does not die but somehow get's captured in a year in which was before her birth. Not only that, Romulans cloned her DNA, which means the future of Star Trek was changed. Shall we go through the Timelines of Enterprises in the last 2-parter episode of "All Good Things..." or last TNG film "Nemesis" with a Romulan (they love to clone) Picard clone. ST:TNG did more to change the prime timeline and never truly corrected it than JJ Abrams done. JJ Abrams, hindsight is 20/20, should of started fresh with a different crew than with Kirk, Spock & etc. They boxed themselves in and blew it with "Into Darkness" crap of a movie. Yes, Start Trek V & TNG: Insurrection were bad films but they are still watchable. "Darkness" IS NOT. Oh, I liked "Nemesis".
Very entertaining video. A couple of comments: 1) When someone gets into a religious war over which is the better flavor of Trek, I like your comment....It's just a story! If you don't like it, write your own! 2) If you want a mind-bending (and near the end of the book, mind-numbing) idea of what the chaos of multiple stories/multiple universes leads to, read Robert Heinlein's novel "The Number of the Beast" (did have some good sex scenes in it, though--from Heinlein's "dirty old man" writing period).
No matter what CBS or anyone else says, I will not consider STD to be part of the "prime" universe, since it diverges too much from the established canon of the main timeline, what with mutant "Klingons", strange super-fungus, and all that other craziness that is never brought up in any of the films or movies set after that time-frame.
The different size of the ships Does not explain why the Kelvin Enterpise was assembled on Earth. Also, since Kirk became a felon when he was a boy, at least in the Kelvin time line, there is no way he would be allowed in to the Academy.
This was good but you forgot that Star trek Enterprise series was played with because those jerks was coming back to destroy the earth and the Zendie proto type weapon took out alot of people on earth.
The Kelvin Timeline and the Original Timeline will merged into a new combine timeline. The effects of the new timeline will be different. For example, Commander Data is still alive in the new timeline. In the original timeline, Data had sacrifice his own life to save his captain Picard. ST Discovery is taking Place in the original timeline. I will like to see a sequel base on the the new timeline which was created as a result of the combination of the Original and the Kelvan Timelines.
It says 366 meters for the Kelvin Enterprise on the scale below, that's the correct one. The 735 one is meant to express how a Kelvin timeline Enterprise E would scale in proportion to the Prime timeline's Enterprise E. In other words if an Enterprise E were made in the Kelvin timeline, and it followed these parameters, then it'd be 735 meters, compared to the Prime timeline's 685 Enterprise E. Consequently, the Vengeance should be roughly 732 meters, which explains why it completely dwarfs the 2009 and even resembles a Sovereign class in dimensions and size.
Nope. They officially scaled up the Kelvin Enterprise (not E) when they added that scene with the massive number of shuttles in a huge shuttle bay and realized none of that would fit; so they “preemptively retconned” the size to make it much bigger and used the excuse that the appearance of Nero with the Borg technologized Narada made them start supersizing ships. That’s the official word from the producers anyways. The Enterprise was originally going to be only slightly larger than the canon ship; but they painted themselves into a corner because they didn’t think about the basics of ship size when writing the script. They just weren’t used to having to work within the kind of parameters required in Trek; with its nerdy, exacting fan base.
@keirfarnum6811 That doesn't make any sense given the size of the bridge and humans inside compared to the saucer section. The shuttlebay was also pretty small until you got in further, which was similar to the enterprise in the motion picture. Either they got it wrong because they're not real Star Trek fans, or the effects guys did, because there is no way its anywhere near the size of the Sovereign. The original Enterprise wasn't exactly small. It could fit those large rooms. It all came down to a different approach to set design. Just look at the inside of the galaxy class Enterprise D, you wouldn't realize it was bigger than the Sovereign by looking at the inside. In fact, they weren't that much bigger than sets in the Enterprise A. They were the exact same if you count Star Trek 6. The Kelvin Enterprise is definite not as big as the sovereign
I've always been intrigued by the Mirror Universe, even though I would probably die there in a matter of minutes because I'd tick off the wrong person. Which would be literally anyone.
Still it would of been glorious to have a season or two of Star Trek set in the Mirror Universe.
no, the few episodes they did were enough. too much and you exhaust the relevant material. too much of a good thing you know....
Magical Fungi I agree. Don't overdo it. It could be a multi-parter like how Enterprise did, or maybe 1 to 3 separate episodes. At most maybe a season-wide arc dedicated to a mirror universe incursion.
yup: to much of a good thing is still to much.. true true
dont forget the 20 something timelines from that one episode of TNG where the enterprise kept exploding.
good times, good times....
Or when Worf kept jumping around between parallel universes.
My favorite was the dreadnought galaxy with the third warp nessel and the phaser lance XD
"Or when Worf kept jumping around between parallel universes." Technically, he didn't "keep jumping" ... it would be like if you had a stack of papers, but when you try to draw a line you accidentally get deeper and deeper into the paper as you progress. Each one is just slightly off from the previous one, and it's in a pretty much straight line. It was only when the bottom paper and the top paper were combined that it was obvious just how far off he had drifted.
It was the same timeline but it had wound up going round in a loop, As Worf put it, There is the theory of the Mobius, a tear in the fabric of space, where time becomes a loop from which there is no escape
The whole thing can be explained with Dr Sam Becket leaping into Captain Archer.
I see someone else watches Quantum Leap =w=
Oh boy...
[appears as a woman] not again....I love the Quantum Leap.....so awesome and did you catch that one episode of Enterprise where Dead Stockwell [Al on QL] played a prison warden holding a bunch of Suluban?? good stuff
+Dean Stockwell oops
Is that why sam never returned.
That moment when you realize the Vengeance is just shy of being as big as an Imperial I Class Star Destroyer...
The Next Generation episode "Parallels" says exactly the same thing as the conclusion of this video. Any story in Star Trek is true in an alternate universe.
"Parallels" had hundreds of thousands of slightly different versions of the Enterprise in separate alternate realities.
There probably was the mirror universe enterprise in the hundred of enterprises
great American repuplic alt history; agreed. Every alternate reality in Star Trek history from fluid space to the Kelvin timeline could probably be reached through the quantum gateways created in "parallels".
@@bb1111116maybe even the future enterprise from future imperfect may be in the list of enterprises
I love how one of Nero’s offences is loitering, that’s hilarious
They should have a "Holo-novel" series of books that are just a way for authors to write in-universe fictional stories. That way, they can explore different concepts and stories, without screwing up Beta Cannon.
Surprised you didn't use the Mileses O'Brien's "I hate temporal mechanics".
3:45 That's slightly less than half the length of one side of a Borg cube. Very impressive.
One thing you mentioned was the Mirror Universe timeline, but with an emphasis on the split from the prime timeline being that of First Contact. Apparently you did not watch the opening of the episode of Enterprise, because if you had, you would know that timeline began much earlier; at least at the beginnings of WW2. It is my thought that this too had its beginning with the TOS episode 'City on the Edge of Forever', when McCoy went back to before World War 2 and saved a woman that was originally killed by getting hit by a truck. Yes the Guardian of Time said the timeline had been fixed when Kirk and Spock followed McCoy back to prevent what he would do once he arrived; however, the Guardian never said that the new timeline had ceased to exist. Therefore that would seem to me to be when the Mirror Universe split from the Prime Universe. This is evident in the Enterprise episode 'Through a Mirror Darkly', in which the opening credits show an alternate history showing that the allies had lost WW2. The events in which Zephram Cochrane killed the commander of the Vulcan ship certainly happened long after that.
I mentioned that the earliest reference to the Terran Empire is in 1955 (4:35), but I do like the idea of the divergence being even further back. It suggests that most alternate universes are the result of interference in the timeline, including the MU. :)
Sir the Prime Universe and the Mirror Universe is own Universe there is NO TIME Alternation. The Mirror have no time split mess it going it own path. It is parallel universe/Mirror to the Prime Universe.
Sophia Wilson That is what was surmised by Spock in 'Mirror Mirror', but even he could be wrong, and very often was wrong. Another thing surmised by Spock was the existence of time divergence, as he had built a rudimentary machine that could access the records of the Guardian of Time in City on the Edge of Forever, and used it to help him pin down where the change in history had occurred.
I'm not telling you that you are wrong or right here. Just that in Star Trek, causality has much to do with the consequences of time travel, and even moving sideways in time can be a part of that. Do you think that in Mirror Mirror, both timelines did not diverge due to the transporter malfunction that switched the versions of Kirk,McCoy, Uhura, and Scott? I submit to you that indeed it had to. Just the interactions of the involved people affect how time will progress in a given history, or as in the case of these two timelines, two given histories.
In The Next Generation, an episode brought back Lt.Yar, when a temporal rift brought the Enterprise C forward in time. At that moment the prime timeline diverged prior to the event that brought the earlier ship forward in time. Lt.Yar found out that she was supposed to be dead, and learned that her death had been meaningless, so she decided to return to the Enterprise C's time to make her death actually count for something. As we all know, that caused yet another divergence, and her daughter was the product of that, in which she was half Romulan and half human. She served the Romulan Star Empire, and became a thorn in the sides of the captain and crew of the Enterprise D.
Yet another TNG episode was one in which several timelines began to converge, with there being dozens of alternate histories depicted. Most of the other timelines were not good for the Federation in their own timelines.
My point in mentioning these episodes is to point out that even the Mirror Universe had to begin somewhere. The TOS episode 'City on the Edge of Forever' is the most likely scenario that could have caused its divergence from the prime timeline. This is evident in the episode of Enterprise 'Through a Mirror Darkly', because it shows how WW2 was won by Hitler in that timeline, which is an event that occurred after that in which McCoy had saved a woman from being killed. Let me point out that in that episode we could see the divergent timeline as it was displayed by the Guardian of Time, and it showed that Hitler had won the war. See where I'm going with this? The woman McCoy had saved was at the divergence point of two timelines. If she died, the allies would win, but if she lived due to interference by McCoy, Hitler would win. Since in the episode both things had occurred, both timelines became a reality. Once a timeline is established, it cannot be undone. The real task of the well meaning time traveler is to find the way back to his/her own timeline, which is what I think happened when Kirk and Spock prevented McCoy from saving the woman.
L. Cleveland Major, that's freaking beautiful.
AJZulu Thank you.
Don't forget the Next Generation's timeline where life on earth may have never got a start at all in the past, because of a reversing rip in time out of the future. It had to be sealed by 3 ships working together, each ship from different points in time.
The temporal cold war introduced alternative timelines during Enterprise as well.
3 things I would like to see coming out of the Star Trek Universe and find their way to series:
1. An off shoot series telling the story of the Borg like what politics and/or events led them to become the Borg, yes we all know what the Borg are but it would had been very interesting to explore that aspect of the Star Trek Universe.
2. A series that uses the NX-59650 (USS Prometheus) as it's protagonist vessel and it's crew.
3. And finally the futuristic USS Enterprise that was depicted on the "The Enterprise" series that's it's mission was about the Temporal Cold War.
#1: this!
Heres the thing. As much as these would be cool. The next series that is being made is nothing what we wanted.... I mean have you seen the ship design. It looks like the saucer would be ripped off at warp 2.5. ....
Not sure, but Netflix Is working on one
Agree, a series about how the Borg started would be ....fascinating. (Although my bet is that it was because they got introduced to smartphone technology....)
As an alternate seeing the development, building and launch of the Promethius (#2) would be interesting leading to the Romulans taking control of it and the results after the 2 emhs defeat them at least as a point of reference until Promethius class is common in the Federation would be interesting.
As an arc variation a history of the mirror universe would be interesting, but lead it on as directly by the characters. Have an alternating view of the "Rebels" and the "Empire" with characters of each filling in the the events of the 'other side' in turn between switching. Leading first to the development of the Rebellion and any affects to it (including what *section 31* here would be) as well as how they still exist and expand despite the Empire and eventually the fall of the Empire to the Klingon/Cardassian Alliance until at least temporally the last DS9 intervention of Mirror universe history.
The new Star trek Discovery spends a great deal of time in the altnate universe. Which was awesome to get an in depth look at it.
It spends all of its time in an alternate universe. It does not fit.
I love hearing about the Mirror Universes in Star Trek it makes an excellent premise for a Role Playing Game!
Does the "all good things" ending vs the Nemesis ending count as a divergence? Personally I like the way they concluded the series with Data becoming a professor and stuff, rather than just dying.
I really LOVE how you brought it all together in the end. Really insightful.
Personally, I have to say the Mirror Universe is the most interesting of them all. I read all of the follow-on books about the Mirror Universe, right through the death of Emperor Spock and his Consort Marlena. I found that Star Trek: Enterprise section of the alternate universe was quite good, with the dynasty of Empress Hoshi Sato. I'm not a fan of the new JJ Abrams Kelvin timeline stuff. I find it kind of disrespectful. I wouldn't mind seeing an anthology version of the Mirror Universe episodes tied together, with more of TNG added in. The comparison of Roddenberry's classic Federation ethos to the savage, militaristic Terran Empire is also a cautionary tale, which is what he obviously intended when Mirror/Mirror was shown. I never get tired of it.
If Mirror Spock was a thing in the JJverse he'd likely have to be a saint as JJ-spock is a nut case.
I'd actually rather have a Mirror George Kirk story than have a Time Travel one for JJverse Movie 4.
What is this crazy 🤪
i know its a point of conjecture but always assumed the divergence point for the mirror universe was the roman empire, and that it never fell in the mirror timeline.
in through a mirror darkly archer says he wont let "these people destroy an empire that has endured for centuries", it fits better than anything else.
Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, comes to mind.
4:57 I love how he just guns him down like it’s nothing, and with a projectile weapon to
"It's Life Jim, But not as we know it"
"We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, men!"
+Alonzo Branson "Scotty beam me up!"
Hilarious song
It's worst that He's dead Jim, dead Jim, He's dead!!
We come in peace shoot to kill shoot to kill shoot to kill.
Just found this video and I think it's great, fabulous and well thought out, as well as addictive. Count me in as a big fan of your work. I MUST HAVE MORE........
It's that wibbly wobbly timey whimey thing again.
Despite not liking the new movies, I like how they add different timelines, if there were a way for theme to collide in a comic or something, that would be pretty cool
Allows the dream to continue, and the classics to be remembered. Very well said.
I was doing some thinking about the Mirror Universe, Kelvin Timeline, and the Prime timeline, and I came up with a crazy idea:
The temporal interference of the Borg and the Enterprise-E in First Contact was actually a predestination paradox that prevented the Terran Empire's formation and Cochrane's killing of the Vulcan ambassador from happening and caused what the Prime Timeline to turn out like it did.
In the Kelvin Timeline, the same predestination paradox occured, but sometime between first contact and the construction of the USS Franklin, there was some technological boost that caused the Franklin and anything built after it to have more advanced tech than the Prime Timeline equivalents.
And then there's Doctor Who, yet another parallel universe as laid out in the comics.
"Q did it." Is that a skeptical inside joke?
6:39 To quote Miles O'Brien: "I HATE temperal mechanics."
I have to hand it to whoever came up with the idea of splitting the timelines: it is a great way of having your cake and eating it too!
It makes me think of how Star Wars powers that be could have done something more creative than just retcon the expanded universe.
🖖😎👍 Very totally wonderfully cool and very nicely greatly well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on "Alternate Star Trek"; A job very nicely fabulously well done indeed Sir!👌.
Recently I've been making my own roleplay universe set in the year 2406 and many things were changed from the Prime Timeline like the classic Galaxy, Intrepid, and many other ships being recommissioned because it doesn't make sense to decommission an Enterprise after not even 20 years. I'm using word document to house the starships, characters, and other stuff to keep it tidy. That's why you've also gotta have that Romulan Ale handy in-case of alternate timelines. Oh, yeah and I brought the E back in 2402 instead of the trash G.
The Fan Fiction "Starship Farragut" explains the creation of the mirror universe. In the episode "For Want Of A Nail", A Farragut landing party, led by the captain is transported back to the day before the Battle of Trenton in the revolutionary war, but not in their timeline, but a parallel one. They managed to get transported out, but Washington saw them depart. The closing scene shows Washington sticking a dagger into an apple core and leaving the apple and dagger behind when he leaves the room. It was rather chilling as the camera slowly zoomed in on the apple and dagger.
fan fiction isn't cannon.
Magical Fungi You are correct. It's not. And that may not be the canon explanation. Frankly we don't know what the canon explanation is. So until it is released, it's as good a theory as any.
The canon theory was that it started to be created near the end of WW2 and proceeded to grow and reached its peak after Zefram Cochrane's flight when he shot a Vulcan.
Volorus To'Rak (thetricker01) I think it may have been before that. I've just rewatched the title scene of "In A Mirror Darkly", and it starts in the Age of Sail. True that the Terran Empire symbol (the Dagger in the Planet) isn't shown until World War II, but things don't spring up overnight. There had to have been a lot of history that lead up to that. Therefore it is still possible that the causal event that started it happened in the 1700's during the revolutionary war. We just don't know for sure.
Carl O Ah.
The mobile game "Star Trek: Timelines" is another case of universal splits...starring you, the player, and Q. You have to gather up folks & ships from all the series (TOS including the movies, TNG including the TNG era movies, DS9, Voyager, & Enterprise); not sure if it includes the Kelvin timeline.
Just found your channel today and I'm really enjoying it. Nice video. I wouldn't mind seeing you do a comprehensive breakdown of the Mirror Universe, including the Mirror Universe Saga from the comics, the books, all the fun DS9 episodes and even the information from Star Trek Online. The Mirror Universe is definitely one of my favorite things about Star Trek. I love that we got to see the two-parter of Enterprise as if we were watching the series in the Mirror Universe.
I personally like the idea that the Kelvin timeline is a different timeline all together because of the size of the USS Kelvin and the weapons the Kelvin is armed with and that the timeline changed around the time of the Romulan War.
I personally prefer the theory that Discovery takes place in the Kelvin timeline, with the Kelvin timeline simply being another mirror universe in the Star Trek timeline. It would explain the hightened technology and the many, many continuity issues.
In DS9, there is a discrepancy in the mirror universe plot where Klingons don't have a cloaking device. However, in an earlier episode, we see them being used (at least on Cardassian ships). This, and any other plotholes, can be explained by them being completely different universes. With an infinite number of parallel universes, who's to say 50 Kiras didn't visit 50 other Kiras? Then who's to say that they latter visited the exact same universes? Why not have Kira-alpha visit DS9-beta, while Sisko-alpha latter gets dragged to DS9-gamma; and even later, Quark-alpha to DS9-delta?
True but its too messy for fans to keep track of that. I think Prime and mirror prime must be joined like twins or something to keep them going back to same universes.
+Daniel Bennett My theory is that those two realities are "glued" together. For whatever reason, they are intrinsically tied together and no matter how they diverge when someone crosses over, they will inevitably mirror each other again.
That's how I explained the Terran Empire getting technology from the future yet being no further ahead of the Federation 100 years later.
The MIRROR UNIVERSE is a linked alternate time lime concurrent to Prime. It is NOT an expression of MULTIVERSE. Now I am EXTREMELY well versed in DS9 as Roddenberry does better at Applied Theology then Utopian Fallicy.
DID YOU KNOW RODDENBERRY WAS INSPIRED BY THE COUNCIL OF NINE. NON COPOREAL ENITIES THAT HAVE PLAYED THE PARTS OF ALL GODS OF ATLEAST THE LAST SIXTY THOUSAND YEARS SINCE THEY WERE FIRST REFRENCED IN AUSTRALIAN SPIRITUALISM AS THE ONES WHO DREAMED THE WORLD INTO BEING AND STILL CONNECT THROUGH DREAM TO THEM. Dont believe me. Look it up it was a government run channeling coven that invited Gene to speak with them and is referenced by many disparaging sources. Including GOV DOCUMENTS.
Sorry side track. What episode and approximate episode time did the mirror universe have a cloak before the Nagus' folly
"I hate temperal mechanics...."
I'm pretty sure I've missed enough of the series that I'm wrong and you're right, but where's the plothole? How does "Cardassians have cloaked ships" somehow require that Klingons will have cloaking technology in the future?
When he says crap and shows a picture of a sonic the hedgehog game
*You are my spirit animal*
sonic 06
As a trek fan since I was a child, I first had issues but after seeing what they did I liked it. Would personally like to see the next movie deal with mirror universe. It could be prime mirror or kelvin.
At the beginning. Don't forget that the star was in the same sector as Romulus...but the star (supernova) was light years away from Romulus. Something happened to cause it to go super...and travel in subspace.
You did better than anyone probably could.
The Mirror Universe diverged from the prime timeline at some earlier point. Possibly when Zefrem Cochrane, having never met Riker, Troi, Data, and Geordi, shot a visiting Vulcan with a 12 Gauge Shotgun loaded with #00 Buckshot. It's also possible that the mirror timeline was created in the early 1930's when Dr McCoy saved Edith Keeler allowing Nazi Germany to win WWII and take over the world.
One of the theories of alternate timelines, which has been voiced in Star Trek, is that an infinite number of realities are created when every possible outcome of every event in every person's life all happen. There was a Next Gen episode which centered on the phenomenon happening to Worf.
Brilliant thought in regards to Edith Keeler! Based on the opening credits of the Mirror Universe "Enterprise", the Terran Empire has been going on long before "first contact". Just to think that Dr. McCoy is the reason why the "mirror" universe exists is an interesting thought. I rather prefer that everything in the Mirror Universe just be completely opposite throughout time.
There's a lot to like about that, and the opening credits of the two part "Enterprise" episode definitely show that the parallel timeline existed far before First Contact, since the Terran Empire existed at the time of the Lunar Landings.
A thought just occurred to me. What if, in the JJ Universe, the Enterprise travels to the Guardian of Forever, but McCoy jumps back to ancient times and cures the great plague before, or somehow prevents the Magna Carta from being signed, which leads to the timeline that results in the Terran Empire.
There was a TNG novel, Dark Mirror, which posits that humanity is just "different" in the mirror universe, with even works of Shakespeare having different outcomes to fit the nature of the mirror universe.
IIRC, Picard stands in for his mirror universe counterpart. He finds that, in the mirror universe version of Merchant of Venice, one of the characters was literally given "a pound of flesh" from another.
No the Mirror universe did not diverged the prime universe time it runs it own accord. The only time mess was the ship from 100 years in future form the prime universe.
Sir the Mirror Universe is own universe it is NOT alter timeline please check this out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_Universe
now that's one simple solution -
just say 'Q did it' lol :D
"Sulu's" -deeply... satisfyed- smug smile... coresponding with your audio narration vocabulary at that specific point; also combined with the somewhat common, pedestrian-level knoledge of George Takei's "preferennces" ('Me too'... involverment)- made me absolutely fuckin crack up laughing! Best belly laugh Ive had in a season!
Mr. Rick- you have a great, subtle, classy informed-manner of wit that -just- manages to fly under the radar of the soul-deystroying, fun-killer vultures of "S-Jaay dubbya" censorship armada- thank the stars above.... a wit that I GREATLY appreciate. you should give a sci-fy kommedy vid a try at least once or twice; even under an AKA if it helps....
Thanks for all your efforts, and your informed, shiny, "Slick Rick" videos!
Sincerely- JGM
I just love Trek. I'll absorb it all, no matter on what canvas.
I would love for there to be a series devoted to the mirror universe. All of the mirror episodes are my favorites.
That was the most diplomatic way of describing the shit that legal rights and Abrams/Goldman/Kurtzman threw at us. Well done!
u forgot how the sphere builders messed with the kelvin timeline since the 2200's. It was (according to star trek online) already separate because the damn xindi were never backed by the sphere builders. Turns out they only existed in the prime timeline, BUT came in sometime before star trek beyond and used the Klingons. You can reference the STO yesterday's war missions.
Great summary and also a fantatic point about the future of Trek. I think everyone connects to their own parts of the Trek universe. However, to keep Trek alive, to inspire like TOS did, it has to adapt. Your point about alternate timelines giving the freedom to create relevant and popular Trek material is spot on. Curious though, at what point does it reach saturation and utter confusion that it is no longer coherent?
Thoroughly enjoyable fellow time-traveler. Reverend Tom Out! 👽
If you have a headache trying to figure this subject out and explaining it in a 'logical manner', I don't blame you.
One should take Janeway's advice on this matter, as seen on Voyager: Don't bother thinking about it.
Later and best wishes.
Question: Why would spock have that much black matter on board?
Question: Why would Nero wait years before coming after spock. He could have warned Romulus high command.
Question: Wouldn't have the temporal time cops correct the timeline.
What about the events surrounding the The City on the Edge of Forever and Spocks travel in the animated series
GREAT explanations! COULDN'T have said it better!
Oh yeah! I totally forgot to factor in that alternate universe when the Federation was still at war with the Klingons. Restoring it change the prime universe because Tasha Yar would die a different way and give way to that half Romulan child she has who's a recurring villain.
Yes sela she's awesome but cruel she's got the whole azula fire lord thing going on but I think sela would scare even her.
Well the one I would have liked to see continue, is a series called simply "warlords" the pilot was aired on upn, it was a very unique take on a British solar sailing warship with all other ships being of the combustion type, sadly I am not aware of any surviving copy of the pilot
I really appreciate the alternate Timeline paradigm because i very strongly believe that after WW2 we are experiencing exactly that phenomena in our reality, we could not be where we are without an exterior intervention! :)
i would like to see a mirror universe version of the kelvin timeline , just to see the comparison thanks
6:23 I was under the impression that STO wasn't canon
yes STO isn't canon. Which is why they can use completely accurate designs for most things in the 50 year canon.
I still wonder who decides what is canon...
I'm more interested in why I'm a freaking VA60 and haven't seen ANY of this stuff
Timberwolf69 Some random intern at CBS, I suppose.
After watching "Star Trek Beyond", I think Spock Prime & the Narada didn't just travel back in time, but they hopped universes, too. Note some of the things Scotty was saying about the capabilities of the Franklin. The Enterprise NX-01 was faster than the newer Franklin (NX-326). The NX-01 used a flat panel view screen, whereas the Franklin was using a glass window panel view screen. The Franklin was still using "spatial" torpedoes, when the NX-01 began using "photonic" torpedoes at the beginning of her mission into the Delphic Expanse -prior to the signing of the Federation Charter. The newer Franklin was the first starship to break Warp 4; the older Enterprise was the first to break Warp 5. Kelvin Universe Khan spoke with an English accent & is as pale as an Irishman in the dead of winter. Khan Prime speaks with a Mexican accent yet still isn't dark enough in skin tone to pass as someone from India.
I don't know if anyone is interested in the subject but when did The Prime Trek Universe diverge from our own? 1966? We obviously never had the Eugenics Wars in the 1990s. Someone more versed in Trek lore and such could make an interesting chart
or it could be an interesting episode in some future(hopefully) Trek show.
Honestly, anything works great as long as I never have to see (much less contemplate) the TNG series ending two-parter! No need to explore the Troi-Worf relationship yet again....and I definitely never want to see Jon Luc in his PJ's asking peep's for the correct time....to include the year, ever again. But as far as the alt timelines explanation goes.....I suppose you have earned a "good job mate" with this one. :)
I loved it. Time travel the whole concept is brilliant. Parallel universe are the best. So this was brilliant. (Dr Who) Timey whimey.
Kirk was an Iowa farm boy, because his father was a farmer and not a Star Fleet officer. So how did that change? My guess would be the ripple effect. When you throw a pebble into water ripples go out in all directions. So no only is the future changed, but some of the past as well (such as Kirk's father and Spock's sister Micheal)
4:20 hmmm... makes me wonder how the kelvin mirror universe ships look like, knowing how powerful the kelvin timeline ships are...holy christ would it pack a punch.
It's all timey wimey to me. Interestingly humoress. I am sure there are people that will argue with you but it was interesting to see it laid out as best as can be done. Q did it for sure. I was disappointed in the fact that Enterprise 1701A was built in "Beyond" because in the original, the Enterprise had made a name for itself before it was destroyed. The reboot still had a few years to go before it earned that right. Most I visited with agreed, many of us cried during Star Trek 3 when the Enterprise went down, but they have destroyed it and other Enterprise starships since then so much it is like fixing a model airplane. Live long and enjoy Star Trek, happy 50th.
I like the idea of alternative realities. I just wonder what the crossing between timelines would do to people.
The event seen in the movie isn't the only point of divergence though. The movie First Contact introduced the Federation to the Borg at a much earlier point in history than Picard's crew originally encountered them. This means that there are actually two points in this new history where they've had encounters with future technology and would be able to use that technology to advance technology a lot faster than in the original time line. This is why Kirk's ship, communicators, phasers, and everything else in the JJ Abrams movies looks so much more advance than it did in the original series... well also because the movies are being made in a time when we are far more technologically advanced than we were when the original series was made but this is an in story explanation for the advanced future technology existing in the past.
Star Trek Enterprise would be on the same time line as the JJ Abrams movies because the series takes place I believe 100 years before Kirk. There was probably a Captain Archer in the original time line who probably had a much different looking ship because again, the original time line never had to deal with the Borg till Picard but the Archer we see is from a time line where the Borg time traveled to be at Human's first contact with the Vulcans. Everything after warp technology was first invented has been changed ever since First Contact. The original time line where there were no Borg, and the alternate time line where Picard and his crew showed up to fight the Borg in the past.
Basically the current time line was already on a different course before Spock even showed up. They really only put that in the movie as an excuse for Leonard Nimoy to make cameos. It doesn't actually explain why their technology is so far ahead of the Prime time line because they seemed to be more advanced before Spock even showed up. That's because of First Contact that the new time has taken such a drastically different course. Spock might of changed things even more after he showed up but that time line would of gone in a new directly without him.
This then leads to the natural question. Did the Terran empire timeline ALSO experience their OWN Kelvin incident. Would that drive the splinter timeline to be HYPER militaristic? I mean this can go on ad nauseum, but it's a fun thought.
Time Travel wether in Star Trek or Doctor Who , is a big ball of wibbly wobbly, timely winery stuff.
Ihave watched this twice and find it to be very well done GOOD JOB
Love Star Trek Online, been playing it on Xbone since it came out.
Same for me on PS4.
I always wondered why Harry Kim never got a visit from the Department of Temporal Investigations... or the timeship Relativity.
I really would like the _"Canon" Mirror Universe_ (if there is such a thing) version of Picard to have been captured at a young age by Romulans, possibly with many others, and basically give him Shinzon's origin, but he's not a clone. It's just Mirror Picard, and he's a dangerous uppity Prick... But he's still Loyal to Remus and therefore a very dangerous adversary of the *Terran Empire.*
If there's one thing I would enjoy watching Star trek again, is the confusing time lines. If I was in the star trek universe, I'd make time quantum physics a major XDD
YES, THANK YOU!!!! I did enjoy this video. It also helped me to be a little more forgiving of JJ Abrams. I will no longer classify the new Star Trek as an Abortion similar to the SyFy Abortion known as Battlestar Galactica. So as I understood it, the old Star Trek was not wiped out but it is a parallel universe. Maybe now I can enjoy the new Star Trek. I did enjoy the 1st and the 3rd ones but was a tad bit miffed at #2.
7.27
Q did it. Nah this has the Doctor's pawprints all over it.
Thanks for the update, I wasn't aware Discovery was supposed to take place in the Prime Timeline. This gives me some hope that Gene Roddenberry's original premise will live on.
Just a fun fact: 1400 meters is (as I recall) about the size of a Victory Class Star Destroyer.
I believe everything will be resolved at a later time when the Kelvin time line is restored to the prime time line. Janeway encounter Starfleet from the future that corrects the time line.
About the Kelvin Timeline: there are things in the Kelvin Timeline that indicate that, while the series continued as it would have in the years preceding the Narada's emergence, there was a technological advancement in the Kelvin Timeline much earlier than it would have been in the Prime Reality, and that ocurred seemingly before the Narada's emergence. This has led me to think that it's not just an alternate timeline that got skewed because someone from the future changed it, but an actual alternate reality, where it turned out different even before someone from the future screwed with time.
Also, the Constitution-class that was being constructed at the beginning of the 2009 reboot was actually NOT the Enterprise: If you look closely at the registration number on the starboard nacelle of the ship being built, the unfinished registry number is painted to have the expected NCC-17-- registry with two zeroes following the number 7, marking the ship as the NCC-1700 instead of the Enterprise, which we all know bears the designation NCC-1701.
Kelvin UNIVERSE. No matter what Abrams or Paramount say to VAGUELY agree with him, it cannot be a different timeline. it's an Alternate Universe. Paramount can't risk losing all of its fan base because they went ahead with a different timeline that destroyed 50 years of canon.
Well, it was mostly the same, but somewhere between the Phoenix and the USS Franklin, there was a major technological boost.
Noah Checkman "mostly the same"?! WHAT?! Give me whatever you're smoking. 😒
I want to think the kelvin timeline got the chance to explore the borg tech that survived the borg ship destruction from the TNG movie. And that's why the constution class starship in the kelvin timeline is bigger and more "advanced" the in the TOS. It would also explain why the NX class ship they used in the more recent movie was a bit more advanced then we seen in the tv series enterprise.
the one we all wanna see is TNG e:parallels, the one universe where the federation was defeated by the Borg and the ship refuses to go back to it
Thanks Rick!Excellent post! Long Live The Federation!
3:20 Why are there two Enterprise 2009s?
Demonstrating the ship's actual scale on screen (larger version) versus what it was meant to be (smaller version). I think the size difference was because the shuttle bay set in the 2009 movie was larger than the VFX team could scale on the CGI model.
Dat Sulu insert, do. Thanks for the lol.
great job I enjoy the mirror universes are there any novels written on these
There was *ONE MAJOR TIMELINE* that changed the *PRIME TIMELINE* that no ones talking about. In the episode of ST: TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise", some point Enterprise of Picard went into a parallel universe along with Gideon (Whoopie Goldberg) where the Klingons were at war with the Federation & defeating them cause a ship called Enterprise entered from a time warf. On the bridge of Picards Enterprise, Worf was replaced by Tarsha Lar, who died earlier in the primeline. Gideon was also on this Military Enterprise and came on the Enterprise AFTER Tarsha Lar's death.
*SO, LONG STORY SHORT....*
Tarsha Lar goes back in time with the old Enterprise. Does not die but somehow get's captured in a year in which was before her birth. Not only that, Romulans cloned her DNA, which means the future of Star Trek was changed.
Shall we go through the Timelines of Enterprises in the last 2-parter episode of "All Good Things..." or last TNG film "Nemesis" with a Romulan (they love to clone) Picard clone.
ST:TNG did more to change the prime timeline and never truly corrected it than JJ Abrams done. JJ Abrams, hindsight is 20/20, should of started fresh with a different crew than with Kirk, Spock & etc. They boxed themselves in and blew it with "Into Darkness" crap of a movie. Yes, Start Trek V & TNG: Insurrection were bad films but they are still watchable. "Darkness" IS NOT. Oh, I liked "Nemesis".
Fuck you
a show about the mirror universe would be great.
To hell with the Kelvin timeline.
No Jar Jar Abrams revisionism & Crappy Broadcasting System Trek for me.
Very entertaining video. A couple of comments:
1) When someone gets into a religious war over which is the better flavor of Trek, I like your comment....It's just a story! If you don't like it, write your own!
2) If you want a mind-bending (and near the end of the book, mind-numbing) idea of what the chaos of multiple stories/multiple universes leads to, read Robert Heinlein's novel "The Number of the Beast" (did have some good sex scenes in it, though--from Heinlein's "dirty old man" writing period).
No matter what CBS or anyone else says, I will not consider STD to be part of the "prime" universe, since it diverges too much from the established canon of the main timeline, what with mutant "Klingons", strange super-fungus, and all that other craziness that is never brought up in any of the films or movies set after that time-frame.
The different size of the ships Does not explain why the Kelvin Enterpise was assembled on Earth. Also, since Kirk became a felon when he was a boy, at least in the Kelvin time line, there is no way he would be allowed in to the Academy.
Wonderfully Done!
This was good but you forgot that Star trek Enterprise series was played with because those jerks was coming back to destroy the earth and the Zendie proto type weapon took out alot of people on earth.
The Kelvin Timeline and the Original Timeline will merged into a new combine timeline. The effects of the new timeline will be different. For example, Commander Data is still alive in the new timeline. In the original timeline, Data had sacrifice his own life to save his captain Picard. ST Discovery is taking Place in the original timeline. I will like to see a sequel base on the the new timeline which was created as a result of the combination of the Original and the Kelvan Timelines.
Great...Scott!!!
I thoroughly enjoyed your video.
It says 366 meters for the Kelvin Enterprise on the scale below, that's the correct one. The 735 one is meant to express how a Kelvin timeline Enterprise E would scale in proportion to the Prime timeline's Enterprise E. In other words if an Enterprise E were made in the Kelvin timeline, and it followed these parameters, then it'd be 735 meters, compared to the Prime timeline's 685 Enterprise E. Consequently, the Vengeance should be roughly 732 meters, which explains why it completely dwarfs the 2009 and even resembles a Sovereign class in dimensions and size.
Nope. They officially scaled up the Kelvin Enterprise (not E) when they added that scene with the massive number of shuttles in a huge shuttle bay and realized none of that would fit; so they “preemptively retconned” the size to make it much bigger and used the excuse that the appearance of Nero with the Borg technologized Narada made them start supersizing ships. That’s the official word from the producers anyways. The Enterprise was originally going to be only slightly larger than the canon ship; but they painted themselves into a corner because they didn’t think about the basics of ship size when writing the script. They just weren’t used to having to work within the kind of parameters required in Trek; with its nerdy, exacting fan base.
@keirfarnum6811 That doesn't make any sense given the size of the bridge and humans inside compared to the saucer section. The shuttlebay was also pretty small until you got in further, which was similar to the enterprise in the motion picture. Either they got it wrong because they're not real Star Trek fans, or the effects guys did, because there is no way its anywhere near the size of the Sovereign.
The original Enterprise wasn't exactly small. It could fit those large rooms. It all came down to a different approach to set design. Just look at the inside of the galaxy class Enterprise D, you wouldn't realize it was bigger than the Sovereign by looking at the inside. In fact, they weren't that much bigger than sets in the Enterprise A. They were the exact same if you count Star Trek 6. The Kelvin Enterprise is definite not as big as the sovereign
What A Q-tastrophe timelines is to think about!