Why is the Mirror Universe so Similar?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- The Terran Empire of the Mirror Universe in Star Trek is a fascinating and dark reflection of the Federation Starfleet we know. It is complete with alternate reality versions of Captain Archer, the Enterprise, Discovery, Deep Space Nine and possibly even the Dominion but why is Starfleet so interested in it and what narrative reasons are there for its popularity?
00:00 Establishing the Mirror
02:49 The Similarities
04:45 Contamination
06:30 Future of the Mirror
08:22 Fun to be Bad
10:25 Narrative Freedom
12:40 Outro
Star Trek Online developed by Cryptic Studios and Perfect World.
Star Trek Picard/Strange New Worlds/Lower Decks/Enterprise/Voyager/Deep Space Nine/Discovery and The Next Generation are all owned by Paramount Pictures/CBS and distributed by CBS.
This Video is for critical purposes with commentary. - เกม
My headcannon is that there are infinitely many mirror universes, and whichever one is the most similar at the moment is the easiest to hop to.
Your comment made me think about how a Hoshi then a Kirk and then a Kira were in the correct positions for their Prime opposite that maybe it's the Mirror farthest away and the cross allows the Mirror to drift back to the Prime's orbit.
There is a slight problem with this idea, as much as I like it. With infinitely many universes, a maximum of 'likeness' is undefinable. The 'closest' universes would be those where, say, the spin of a single electron is different, right? Well, ignoring for a second that this hypothetical universe would look identical to ours (and so not the ST 'mirror universe'), which electron? There would be a massive number of universes adjacent our own where each time it is a different electron with a different spin. Which of these is the 'closest' to our own? I can't think of a metric that could answer that question.
If the 'mirror universe' of star trek is indeed the closest universe to our own in terms of 'likeness', then it necessarily follows that there is not a 'spectrum' of universes with minor changes, but a discrete set of universes each with major changes. This in itself is a really interesting idea and one that they should perhaps explore a bit more.
Whether there would still be infinitely many of these discrete universes, I am both unable and unwilling to think about before my morning coffee.
This could work if multiverse is more like a bubbling sea, with each bubble being a universe. The sea has characteristics and behavior's unknown to our science. So there is no way to know exactly why, but at times different bubbles are attracted to each other even touch slightly allowing crossovers.
This makes sense.
anyone else think it would be funny if in the mirror universe there is no temporal cold war because the current regimes keep killing anyone who even trys to invent time traval because they dont wana risk being userped?
The divergence was always there. In Enterprise, mirror Phlox mentioned he compared the works of Shakespeare in both universes and found differences between the characters and their counterparts in the other universe. It's not a divergent timeline. It's a parallel universe. Kirk says as much in the TOS episode.
There is even an explanation for DISCO's variation of the Terrans being sensitive to bright light. They were so war like that they damaged their Earths environment and atmosphere very early in their history. So from all the fires and destruction caused by their constant intense warfare (far beyond the ST or our timeline) that so much dust and soot was thrown up in their atmosphere. That light levels and probably temperatures across their planet were much lower than the ST or our timeline. Ironically both Mirror Terra and ST Earth have different environmental problems from our timeline/Earth.
My personal head cannon is that the mirror universe was created in a world where Edith Keeler didn’t die.
that wouldn't explain their genetic intolerance of light
@@stankyyboiWe do not speak of STD.
It never happened
@@drrohanjacob5343 its been noted since ds9
@@stankyyboi my head canon also includes that that’s a different mirror universe 😜
@@capnsteele3365 the adverseness to bright light is only from Discovery. Also their version of earth seems to be completely flipped literally like a mirror which the classic mirror universe was not. And the designer did try and tell them that but sometimes suits want what they want.
I was under the impression that the Mirror Sisko was the "Nicer" version of the two.
Mirror Sisko was the "charming" version... His goal was to be friendly "nice" until you lowered your guard in the extremely guarded society, and then take advantage of any benefits that suited him. I remember when I first saw Mirror Sisko that he "bothered" me. Something about him was creepy, it took many, many years before I made the connection that he was acting just my best friend had during our 20+ year relationship as effectively brothers. We grew apart in our late 20s (long after the episode) when he started using it against me (I presume because my friendship wasn't as beneficial as financial or tangible rewards in adulthood). I can still remember the uneasy feeling in my gut while watching Mirror Sisko interact with other characters and the knot that formed in my belly, like when you look at a pile of rotten meat or see a bloody wound... I just didn't know why I had that reaction for a long time.
Sisko's mother was a Prophet. What was the motivation of that the universe's Prophets to create him?
@@ScoobySnacksYum In the books its because there are only one set of Prophets. But they interact with all the multiverse, so when they decided to 'create' the Sisko. The Prophets that was Sisko's mother then went on to make sure 'all' the Siskos were born. She went into every timeline a Sisko could be born and made sure Siskos father and mother conceived him. Meaning Mirror Sisko was also meant to be the Emissary of the Prophets for the Mirror Universe. There is some fan theories that suggest that is why there is a Mirror Universe and similar parallel realities like in the epo. 'Parallels'. The Prophets are interfering directly through out the multiverse to make sure the realities that can create Sisko exist. Not unlike the Sphere builders and their antics.
i wont mind if they did a lower deck mirror episode that would be fun also i would love if they did a sto style war in a series where the empire crossed into the prime universe
We did have the holo-simulation that Mariner failed. Mirror-Boimler was amazing.
lmao@@GSBarlev
Something i read pointed out that the Enterprise cast seemed to *really* enjoy In a Mirror Darkly in a way the TOS and DS9 casts never did with their Mirror Universe episodes. Although I suspect Nana Visitor rather enjoyed playing Intendant Kira.
Interestingly, there should be just as many Mirror Universes as there are different versions of the prime universe. There will be many Mirror Universes where the Terran Empire never fell because of Spock's rule.
There is. For example in TNG they "mirror" universe start after destruction of Ambasador in temporal accident. In this case it is the same Federation, but one what needed abandon they early 24'th century ideas and basically become proper military like they were during TOS. There is also one in Picard show, what actually has the same cause as Main Mirror Universe, but it was actually more successful. My guess is that changes in Prime Mirror Universe go deeper then Sung bio-mod going wrong, even if it spread in both.
Spock is so logical that the univer would be interesting. Buy the time of next generation warp. 9.2 star ships. Image a 3 warp nacelle, to 5 warp. Nacelle 89 phazer cannon, 98000 type 3 photo torpedoe lauch capacity. And the shuttle bay in front over nave dish, and in the rear of the ship having 8 squadrons of warp 6 aerospace two to three preson 5 type six phazer 360 degree emitter arrys. And two pods of 8 type8 photo anti borge torpedoes.under flight lutent worph command. So tatical office terieshia yar.is on board.a pure battle ship enterprise has no passenger, no families, lots of cargo room. Say 89 yr mission endurance. Self repairing etc.
Definitely want to see a mirror the next generation with the ISS Enterprise D or E
i think there was plans in the 7th season TNG episode Parallels for a ISS Enterprise D, which was scrapped for a federation overrun by the Borg.
I'd love to see Empress Beckett Mariner, the Great Uniter, who managed to reform the Terran Empire after its struggle. Give the Lower Decks characters their counterparts who are recognizable, but took the exact opposite paths from what we see. Mariner seeking power; Boimler as her cold and calculating right hand man who organizes the details of the Empire; Rutherford as the ace pilot of the resistance, under the ruthless command of Mistress Tendi... With the lighter tone of that show it would be easy to create such a what-if without coming off as pretentious, and while still tying into established canon.
It would be fun to see a Star Trek story where the Mirror Universe basically created a device that allowed them to punch a hole between Timelines which allows them to invade the prime timeline.
That's one hell of a desperate gambit.
Wouldn't the DS9 ep where Mirror O'Brien comes to prime to get Defiant plans count?
Star Trek Online has them doing that for a couple of story arcs.
This was basically done in the novel 'Dark Mirror' by Diane Duane.
@@jasonbourneistreadstone wait the Terran Empire actually tried to invade the prime timeline?
I've always maintained that the Mirror universe wasn't a divergent timeline but a "meta quantum" counterpart . A literal parallel universe.
I support the same opinion. It adopt also to changes what happen in Prime Timeline.
@@TheRezro Yeah, it helps explain why the same people are in both universes
@@nealjroberts4050 I must clarify that I meant temporal alterations, as basically every show has at least one such event.
@@TheRezro No worries. That's where the meta quantum bit comes in 😎
I always thought it was weird that there was no mirror Jake Sisko.
Still love mirror universe!!
I think they explained that in DS9, but it just draws attention to how there are versions of everyone else that were conceived by the same parents at the same time as in our universe!
Mirror Ben & his wife didn't get along that might explain why Jake didn't exist in the mirror universe not everything is going to be the same. The physical laws in the mirror universe will be completely different.
I personally like the idea, that there is not definite point of divergence between the canon timeline and the mirror timeline, something Mirror Phlox alluded to when he mentioned his dive into the Defiant's historical records. At least Shakespeare oddly enough stayed the same.
That through some physical quirk of the mirror universe humanity embraced a darker path.
I find that more interesting because it would preclude any attempt at time travel to "fix" mirror humanity, because there is nothing to fix, because the difference is inherent to the physical laws of the mirror universe.
It's heavily speculated the laws of the universe are too different to be able to "fix". I agree just due to the fact that almost all life in the universe seems more hostile than the prime universe not just humans.
There’s a few physical differences with terrans, aversion to light being one, which I find thematically interesting as the darker version
@@FumbleBee1312 That's only ever seen in Discovery. Personally, I'd not put much stock in it. The writers took the idea that the Mirror Universe was a Dark version of the prime Universe a little too seriously.
The idea of alternate Universes usually postulates they've always been seperate and distinct realities, even if they share near identical histories.
@@thefurrybastard1964 It's a little silly, but not a terrible idea. While, obviously the Mirror Universe is always depicted as dimmer that the Prime universe for thematic reasons and making clear which universe you are seeing, it's kind of fun to come up with a reason for it in-universe. I'm kind of torn between feeling that Terrans should be identical to Prime Humans in every way, and actually kind of liking that they have an extremely minor physical difference that wouldn't usually matter.
2:50 We had a discussion about that on the STO forum. How incredibly similar they were, especially with the people.
Someone suggested that the Mirror verse was _tied_ to the Prime Timeline. It's fate and people twisted to match to prime timeline.
And all the STO storylines where the Mirror Universe attacked, was them trying to wrest control of their own fate from the prime timeline.
8:23 The mirror verse moral compass can be summed up as: have sex with it; manipualte it; Torture it; Kill it.
That simplicity can be fun.
10:10 Kinda sounds like "Yesterdays Enterprise". And Season 1 of DISCO.
the mirror universe IS directly tied to the prime timeline, by the time of Enterprise at the very least. the Empire would have fallen, had they not gotten the constitution USS Defiant, after it fell back in time 100 years, and crossed realities, which leap frogged the terran empire's R&D department, with so many cooperative federation planets developing the ship, compared to the enslaving and concurring empire. (while the federation is far less aggressive, the cooperation would have still vastly developed weapons through peaceful cooperation, especially after the Romulan war, and the threat of the klingon empire) I'd almost argue the terran empire history even connected to the prime universe, when Archer fell back in time to an alternate ww2 where Germany landed on America.
heck even the confederation universe is connected. maybe even a few dozen more. almost like 31 total realities are interconnected. *cough *cough
My personal pet theory is that the mirror universe exists parasitically... that it's actually an orphaned timeline that only survives by way of being close to the prime timeline... because it diverged at First Contact (as in the movie).
Earth at that point was a world broken by the eugenics wars, and on the edge of collapse. Cochrane wasn't a man of hope and vision - he was a drunk genius, struggling to do something meaningful. I think it would be neat if the original timeline was the one we see in Enterprise... but then... the Borg Queen's time travel event happens.
If she never shows up, we get the Mirror Universe... and if she shows up and wins, we get Borg Earth.
But because she shows up and loses - Cochrane gets a glimpse at a future of peace, prosperity, diversity, hope... stuff that is, let's be honest - even more alien to the Earth of that time than the Vulcans would be. That's what causes him to reach out and shake hands instead of pull a weapon. The future... writes itself in that moment.
The Prime Timeline is the result of a self-enforcing time loop that left the Mirror Universe (hypothetically the original) as an orphan timeline, existing only in our shadow.
(I know one of the references in Enterprise, and some of the extended canon are clear that the Mirror Universe had diverged prior to this, though exclusively in small ways, so it doesn't work perfectly as a theory, but I still think it would be a neat one to explore.)
@@brannontirin by that logic though the prime timeline isnt the prime timeline. it takes the federation (the enterprise) going back in time to create itself. to start the chain of events. that would make the terran empire the prime timeline. I like the premise but i do have that one hang up. technically the universe we know, is the parasite universe that folds in on itself to self with a temporal cocoon to create, and consume what is the terran prime universe.
I really feel bad for mirrorverse Spock!
He was trying to make the galaxy a better place and got killed because of it!
I have heard that there or at least 3 Mirror Universes, each where its own timeline. and somehow when Kirk was transported to it, what he did happen in all 3 of the Mirror Universe at once. the one we see in DS9 is just one of the 3
One of the episodes of the next season of Discovery is called "Mirrors." So we may see what it's like in the far future.
I would love to see an episode set in the mirror universe where Q shows up and what he does
I’m really looking forward to Lower Decks and SNW going to the Mirror Universe!
Jake Sisco was definitely the exception. He was what 19 when he met the mirror version of his mother? She even said that Jake was the son that she would never have because their Captain Sisco was always off playing pirate while they were married.
I love all things related to the mirror universe
Same here as well as section 31, MACO and the Eugenics wars!
@nicktechnubyte1184 those are awesome subjects as well. I love how mysterious section 31 is.
YUP!!!
@@rickbeauchene8694 I almost forgot about MACO
So do I. Also being a Transformers fan, there’s a mirror universe in that franchise too. It’s called Transformers Shattered Glass. In that universe, the Autobots are evil and the Decepticons are good. I love the role reversals in those stories.
It's something all of us think about. That "What if" I had done this route and taken this route. What would have happened? That is why it's done so much. I always loved the TV show "Sliders". It was kinda like that.
There are so many stories you can create with the mirror universe. The possibilities are limitless.
The reality I wish we could see more of is the Confederation Universe. It's iconography and brief depiction of the human race is interesting and honestly came across much darker than the traditional Mirror Universe.
Yea the mirror universe tend to be very cartoonish...comprised with people who almost entirely act like G1 Starscream...always scheming to backstab each other.
I too would have like to stay in Confederation then continue the chore that was Picard's second season
A safe galaxy is a human galaxy
@@amazedsatsuma I have to agree. Instead of this section 31 spinoff series, I'd MUCH rather a spinoff show in this alternate reality instead. It was the best part of New Trek to date and all we had is 3 episodes was it?
@@leepreston9637kinda rings similar to “an armed society is a safe society” I’m adapting your statement into “An armed galaxy is a safe galaxy!” as a line of dialogue in my next chapter since I’m writing a galactic war scene in my book at the moment.
@@jaegerolfa the saying is an armed society is a polite society
3:20 That’s always been my big head scratcher of the mirror universe. It’s mentioned in DS9 that there is no mirror Jake because Ben and Jennifer didn’t have children (and presumably the same for Molly as we never see mirror Keiko) yet somehow the same parents of all the main characters got together at the same time and had doppelgänger versions of the people we know despite the vastly different circumstances of their lives. Even more so in the 24th century, when Terrans were slaves.
Maybe they didn't want to bring children into such a world.
I've always felt the terran empire was founded by Khan after he took over the earth in the mirror universe.
I remember reading back in the ‘90s on a Star Trek group on Usenet where someone had a similar idea. He also had Kahn and the augments winning as the point of divergence. The augments basically enslaved normal humans for decades.
Eventually, Kahn grew old and died. After his death there was a power struggle and the normal humans overthrew the augments. His idea differed from yours in that he had the newly-freed humans forming the Terran Empire. He argued that humans had lived their entire lives as slaves and had no concept of democracy. In addition, having been brutalized by the augments humans saw brutality as the way to govern.
Regardless, I like the idea of Kahn being the point of divergence.
Part of me wonders if the reason the Mirror Universe sticks so close to the Prime was because it was actually an experiment of the Q Continuum or a similar power. Perhaps even a Mirror Q Continuum, playing at shaping their reality in mockery of the Prime.
Perhaps the reason they cross over is because the different Qs are playing their own wargames.
As long as Smiley is doing ok, nothing bothers me about the Mirror Universe.
Smiley is the only mirror character who, if given the chance to switch places with their Prime counterpart, would probably pass.
And I include Jen Sisko in that assessment.
I like the idea of there being one alternate universe that gets encountered every now and then, and you get to see how it has evolved and changed as the prime universe has. However, I do wish they had encountered more of a variety of alternate universes with the same amount of time and focus that the Mirror Universe got/gets. Say like ones where Cochrane didn't get the attention of the Vulcans and so maybe Humanity had to figure things out from there by themselves or maybe a different species, like the Andorians, Klingons or hell the Romulans, where the ones who saw that first warp drive test and came to Earth.
as in the mirror as the name says all is mirrored - good is bad and bad is good - the vulcans should more war-emotional and keep the emotional there shold no romulans exist
The Mirror universe collection is one of my favorite series of novels in the Trek setting right behind the Destiny trilogy. Culminating in the novel Rise like Lions and its epic conclusion is just beautiful.
Id really love to see the destiny series canonized. Finding the wreck of the 02.
I didn't know those existed and will now immediately be buying them.
If I ever wrote a Mirror Universe Story, it would be about this final crossing.
Set centuries after the end of the Borg and while the Federation is really investing in time travel, the Mirror Universe is in chaos thanks to the Terran Rebellion against the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance and the Romulan Sun going Supernova. This left the Alpha and Beta Quadrants wide open to an invasion by the Borg in the Mirror Universe.
The Dominion in the Mirror Universe, a noble and benevolent faction like the Prime Universe Federation, are the only ones left. In desperation they make contact with the Prime Universe. The Prime Dominion are forced to make contact with the Federation for the first time since the Dominion War. However there are still many in the Prime Dominion who want to conquer the galaxy and think the combined might of both Dominions with Borg tech will emerge victorious. Meanwhile the Federation characters have to set aside bias towards the Mirror Dominion, hard since many of them have ancestors who fought in the war. Even the main Starship in this story is based on a design made for that war, but never put into production.
By the end of the story, the Federation is forced to evacuate the Mirror Dominion from their Gamma Quadrant, with the Mirror Borg being too strong and the Federation realizing the universes will drift too far apart for any future crossings. Odo, finding that his centuries of work have only had a minimal effect on the Prime Dominion decides to become the representative of the Mirror Dominion when they journey to the Alpha Quadrant and become members of the Federation.
yeah - the mirror Dominion is the same as the prime federation same like the Borg are real technologic-biologic symbiosis while there is a border between the "north - Alliance (Borg-Dominion)" and the south " peace-protectorat" the terran empire (like the klingons and the cardassians in the prime)
@@ets2atstruckermartin527
Here’s how I would write the mirror Dominion.
The Founders are extremely fascinated with solids and act like overprotective parents to them. With so many races fighting each other, the Dominion was formed to end it and bring peace. The Founders allow each world to have a representative on a council, but the Founders can overrule the council whenever they want. Vorta act as the diplomats for the Dominion, but the Founders can get annoyed when the Vorta make them sound like gods. They’ve had to put a stop to a number of religions for them that some Founders take advantage of. The Founders also are trying to get the Jem-Hadar off Ketracel White with little success. When the Mirror Dominion run into their prime counterparts, they’re shocked. While they recognize similarities between the two, they find it antithetical that Prime Founders act as gods and overlords over solids instead of being their protectors. They come to really like Odo even if he has a few qualms with their system. And they feel disappointed when they see the other quadrants, realizing there was a whole galaxy they never get to see thanks to the Borg. It doesn’t help when they hear about the Terran Empire and Klingon-Cardassian Alliance, wondering if they could have brought peace to these species if they ever found the wormhole.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 another one: as in the mirror universe surak was one of the aggressivst and emotional vulcans at that time, he became the leader of the vulcan Empire as the vulcans just enslaved from orbit other planets and killing zefram as the humans became the terran empire to fight back as the romulans does not exist as a consequence tzere
Star Trek canonically takes place in a pretty big multiverse, at least according to that one TNG episode where Worf kept sliding through the multiverse like a greased weasel. If it's an infinite multiverse, then anything that CAN happen DOES happen, somewhere, no matter how improbable it may be. Cuz with infinity, the odds of something happening can be ten googolplex to one against and still happen in at least one universe.
There is so many timelines and different mirror universe that anything you can imagine,can,will or has happened ❤ your stuff keep up the good work.
It’s been mentioned unofficially RE: writers that this universe’s Roman Empire never fell.
I realize I'm in the minority, but I *really loved* _Discovery_ S01's Terran arc. I loved the reveal of Lorca (though not so much his obsession with Michael). I thought Voqler confronting himself felt brutally honest, and I loved how they took "Captain Killy" and turned what should have been a throwaway gag into a revelation that shaped Tilly's character through into her best moments in S03-4.
And while I would have much preferred three seasons with Prime Georgiou, _any excuse_ for more Michelle Yeoh gets a pass in my book.
Honestly, I wish it had worked for me as well as it did for you, because I recognized what a big artistic swing this was - they tried to make the Mirror Universe episodes consequential and interesting. It didn't totally land for me, but I could see they were trying to do something interesting with the concept, which is more than can be said for the previous attempts.
I loved the idea from Discovery, I didn't like all of the execution. I definitely didn't love most of the writing because it was too much emotionalism. I also wish it had been more episodic with longer story lines weaved in like ds9.
It wasn't a bad show, just not the best writing and execution. Season 1 and 2 were definitely better than 3 and 4.
If the Many Worlds hypothesis is true, then every combination of circumstances takes place, including a universe where an evil Terran empire comes into being that includes the same people, albeit with different personalities, as in the Federation universe.
I think the general assumption of it being a sort of by-product dimension tied to the Prime timeline is the best one. Hercules TLJ did their own version of the idea where it was a linked dimension that relied on the main one to exist & shape itself, albeit that had the added touch of anyone who dies in one reality has their counterpart suddenly die as well due to both being linked, which ST did not do... and there was the weird way they switched clothing in TOS during the swap that should be noted.
Interestingly it portrays the Terran Empire as sort of stagnant, they get ahold of a future vessel & copy it but never make any tech advancements, then they have to steal from Starfleet again to make a Defiant-class copy. They're more focused on oppression & power than in science or tech.
Speaking of the comics, buff sleeveless Mirror-verse Picard? Chef's kiss right there folks.
You touch on a bit that I was hoping might come up: the logistical impossibility of these characters existing, never mind being in each others orbits in an alternate timeline.
For a while now I've been taking an alternate viewpoint of the MU: it's not a "timeline" per se, but a weird cosmic "dimensional phenomenon" of some sort where an instance of the MU springs into existence upon being breached on our end. The instance manifests as a rough dark reflection of the people and history of the universe that instantiated it, at the moment in time that it was created.
This accounts for each show's characters being together, with similar technology, etc.
This is all well and good, except for more modern attempts to explain it on Disco, etc. And then there's DS9's "Smiley" coming to our universe and kidnapping Sisko. There's wiggle room for explanations, like the 'instance' might not have been fully severed on exiting, keeping the universe "running", since DS9 is largely stationary. Emperor Georgiou (and the Defiant) might have kept her MU instance going by being the in each other's universes.
This isn't a perfect theory; the more they try to monkey about with explaining and legitimizing the MU, the less reasonable my alternate take becomes. But boy does it really fix the logical impossibilities while making it an even more bizarre sci-fi concept. :/
Captain Killy! :3 Such a nice name.
Being bad is fun. Look how much fun Emperor Georgiou is having in the Prime Universe!
And the TNG Mirror Universe comic... Picard as a scheming pirate/warmonger... The road not taken.
I'd like to see the universe touched upon in "Living Witness" expanded on. Living Witness was pretty much a Mirror Voyager episode, but because they're had been such a glut of Mirror DS9 episodes, orders came from up on high that thete was to be no Mirror Voyager episodes. The writers rebelled by writing the episode as a faulty historical record only corrected when the Doctor's backup module was brought back online.
There used to be an edit called Warship Voyager that removed all the Doctor correcting the retelling, but it appears to have vanished with only fragments remaining.
Edit: Appears that my own memory was faulty and I called the episode in question "In Living Memory". Edited for corrections.
In the Coda novels, Wesley explains that the reason major players and technologies from either universe keep having counterparts in the other is because the prime and mirror universe are intertwined somehow on the quantum level. They are two universes, on the same timeline, intertwined like a DNA helix. Which I guess is as much explanation as we can expect.
i literally just reviewed the mirror universe episode in enterprise and they took out the gorn far more quickly than anyone else has. good job, evil archer
also idk why the SNW issues exist. they were clearly velociraptorish in enterprise already
I don't know about anyone else, but I've always wondered why we'd never got mirror universe episodes of TNG.
Why we'd had to wait until DS9 before Star Trek ever explored the mirror universe again
For the distance between the prime universe and the mirror one, think of all the different universes as soap bubbles in a gigantic ocean. (The giant ocean being the multiverse in totality.) Bubbles that are close together can start to drift apart, to the point inhabitants of one universe couldn't see the one that had previously been next to them if they had the ability to look outside of their universe. That leaves the possibility of the mirror universe becoming close enough to the prime one for crossovers to happen again, although it'd probably have to be centuries in the future from the latest point we've seen.
A show 100% set in the mirror universe is a show I'd watch.
Just like we saw alternate versions of the prime universe in parallels, their should be alternate versions of the mirror universe as well. It's like Data said in Parallels "Anything that can happen, does happen in an alternate quantum reality"
You deserve more subs. This is the Star Trek content I keep coming back for.
Its called "mirror universe" for a reason, its a dark reflection of our own universe
And ironically, it was never actually a mirror reflection despite what the name implies. It was really more "the main characters are bigger dicks than normal".
Even in the very first episode, it was shown that while some people are more evil, others are exactly the same as the prime universe. Except more dead, because while the Federation may respect the Halkans refusal to share dilithium, the Terrans sure as fuck won't.
No, the prime universe is the fictional world and when the characters visit the "mirror" universe the story is set in the real world.
Oh god. I’d almost forgotten about ‘real-life’ Vic Fontaine.
Never understood how Crossover in DS9’s 2nd series could be so good…and every subsequent episode was progressively awful.
I enjoy your content, wish you would do longer form breakdowns like this.
I feel criminally early
It's interesting to think of the Mirror Universe obtaining tech from the TOS Defiant and then the DS9 Defiant as some outside force intervening to guarantee the mirror universe stayed 'close' to the prime universe. I wonder if it goes the other way? Rather than "somehow Vic is flesh and blood over there," maybe it's "Vic popped up over there first (because of time travel or cloning or whatever), and we made a hologram of him here because something cosmic subtly compelled us to create parity"?
I always thought that it was very highly improbable that so many generations of characters we know could possibly have grown up under such different circumstances but still end up on the same ships or station (DS9) in very similar positions for the most part. I guess it could be down to the "every choice everyone makes leads to a different alternate universe causing infinite universes", theory but that still doesn't explain how Vic Fontaine became a real person. That is beyond belief in a way that cannot be explained by any change in how the mirror universe formed so I reckon it was a step too far.
Other than that, it was a very fun way of seeing how different things could have been. The most shocking event for me was when Intendant Kira orders Quark's execution. "A quick death, don't let him suffer", I believe she said and he gets dragged away begging for his life and then she just turns around to Prime Kira and makes a joke about what they will wear tonight. Prime Kira is just frozen looking stunned at how easily she could do such a thing like that and I reckon anyone else who watched that scene would agree that it was cold hearted and shocking 😲.
I just assume that the hologram Vic was based on a real person, just programmed to fit the lounge singer program. The mirror Vic was their real version, just as the prime universe has one that just had no reason to come to DS9.
I kinda dig the implication that even Kelvin has its own mirror. Seems a lot like Dragon Ball’s “every universe has a twin” idea.
One thing I like about Disco's exploration of the Mirror Universe was the bit about all light being dimmer there. The implication being that humanity took such a dark turn because the universe itself was literally darker.
Thank you again Rick for an informative video
Hadn't given any thought about how the characters came to be so similar. Fascinating.
The fact that you made this episode of RU&D prompted me to re-watch the episode. God bless and Merry Christmas!
My view has always been, that it is exactly what it was first portrayed as - an identical universe, save that those who are good in our universe, are evil in THAT universe. That's why it's called a MIRROR universe.
Consider THIS: in the original episode, at one point, McCoy enters Sickbay, and is shocked to find a perfectly identical burn mark on a table (cabinet? I forget). The circumstances of what caused that burn in this mirror universe may differ, but it is STILL THE EXACT SAME BURN. SO identical, that Prime McCoy notices it as the one he is familiar with, yet notices no difference in it from the one HE knows.
And that every evil character has an evil goatee.
One theory is that its like a house, the colors/carpet/furnishings and so on can differ, but the overall structure remains the same.
I RP in a setting that has Starfleet and the Federation moving into the Delta Quadrant in Second Life, setting up colonies, and exploration there in the post Picard era. In the Mirror Universe, the Empire has formed a separate branch in the Delta Quadrant, with Humans, Vulcans, and Romulans acting as equals, and a Romulan Empress. We do two weeks of Mirror Universe per year. Most of my crew are non-human/Vulcan/Romulan, so we are rebels. In our first set, we stole an Imperial ship. For the players is it GREAT FUN to set aside their heroic natures, to play different roles and be somewhat nasty and ruthless as there is no 'good' no matter the side. It almost becomes a release valve for the more 'wholesome' and heroic aspects we have throughout the other parts of the year. It also allows us to examine the 'what ifs' our our characterizations and gives us a better understanding of not just our characters, but ourselves and I believe the motivations of others. I think this is a huge appeal of the Mirror Universe.
I personally think of the mirror universe as a very specific parallel timeline. The mirror universe and the prime universe are are inexorably linked and effectively balance their karma against one another. That is to say, the mirror universe never diverges too far from the prime beyond being a twisted version of it.
I remember reading somewhere - probably apocryphal, that the divergence point was _way_ older - as long ago as ancient Greek philosophy. Basically bronze age Ayn Rand selfishness + cutthroat murderitus. Of course it could be some kind of quantum entanglement mumbo-jumbo.
I could have sworn it was the founding of Rome-that _Remus_ murdered _Romulus._
My personal theory with the Terran universe is that it is somewhat "Not Real" The Terran universe only exists when it is crossed over with the prime universe. When it is not crossed over, it doesn't exist anymore. Only when some event, which as an anomaly, timeline interference or someone actively tries to go over to it, does it "update" to what would seem logical to the current prime time. For instance, it "updated" for the first time when the Defiant, the one that is from TOS's time in Enterprise get captured by the Tholians. In STO's lore, that only occurred because Noye wanted to get the Terrans to side with him in the Temporal Cold War. Then it updated again in TOS due to an anomaly, Then again in DS9 with the Prophets send Kira and Bashir over. It didn't update with TNG because no one tried to crossover during that time. STO it updated again when Gul Kardeck attempted to seek them as Allies to help the True Way take over Cardassia. Each time it updates to have the equivalent characters, events, ships and level of technology. They only try to crossover to us after we cross over to them, nearly every time.
With the Terran Empire conquering and acquiring technology from other races, why doesn't anyone other than Prime Starfleet ever go into the future to get better technology? Usually, it's the other way around, with someone from the future bringing back technology to fix problems in the past. Most races wouldn't have any moral problems with doing so, nor have the foresight to see how it could cause problems for themselves.
I wonder if the reason we trusted the Vulcans in the Prime timeline was because of the Enterprise-E's interference, telling Cochrane that they were friendly and not here for conquering. It wouldn't surprise me if humanity would have had the Terran reaction without such information.
The Enterprise mirror intro was awesome. I like it when shows alter the intro for just an episode or two per series.
I’d be interested to see a 29th century Terran Empire in show, movie, video game, or all of the above.
Aww no mention of the TNG book? Its my favorite Mirror Universe book. Problem was it ended with them figuing out a way to send them home and we just couldnt have that :P
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and executed and very well informatively explained in every detail way shape and form provided on this format and subject matter on and about the Mirror Universe,And what it truly would be like and that the idea of the counter parts performing in the same type of rolls as the prime time Universe realality and how it truly wouldn't be so and that there lives would of been truly and totally different indeed!.
Love to see this as a show or a cartoon style
Brilliant concept of the mirror universe... 👍
The Edith Keeler divergence is an interesting theory . I LIKE IT!!!
My theory is the Mirror Universe began to split off from the Prime Universe when Bones save Edith Keeler's life and the Nazis won World War II. Since that event was precipitated by a traveler from the Prime Universe going through the Guardian of Forever, that's what bound the two together.
It didn’t
@@martychisnall So?
The temporal war idea is great!
Imagine a universe where it turns out the Terran Federation are the 'good' guys, at least compared to everyone else.
Well hell, you've just inspired me to go watch "In A Mirror, Darkly."
I think that they should merge the temporal cold war with the mirror universe. These two ideas can work together. The mirror universe is our universe, but it switches due to the time battles going on.
I wonder if the MU was created artificially? Perhaps as an experiment by a temporal faction or some other group, and they are constantly 'adjusting' it, which is why there are so many similarities.
Just a thought
That really is such a good point, there must be a suspension of disbelief that theses people we know would exist, as we find them, and have association.
I'd love to see an imperium like Neo Terran Empire be shown to have risen in the Mirror Universe.
not a era but I do just want to see what the Romulans are up to in the mirror universe, like canon-wise I think we just have that one throwaway line Sisko uses for his cover for leaving and i don't think anything else has been said.
When you start talking odds of people meeting and having children, in alternate realities or different timeline, you hit infinite possibilities. And when compared to infinity, the odds that everything played out the way they did it becomes more probable than not.
I’d really like to explore what happened after “in a mirror darkly” and if Hoshi Sato mirror really did become empress?
I really like the stories about the mirror universe and I'm fascinated by them. Especially because the events, characters, technologies are extremly similar to the prime universe. I really hope that the mirror universe will get another spot in Star Trek Online. I liked the stories and missions and they were by far my most favorite, but they were a bit too short. I really would also like to see the mirror universe as a new faction, more than enough Play Space for stories is given by many sources in canon and beta canon. You could also tie the story in to the newest expansion of the mirror universe. There is so much potential in this setting.
Universe of the Damned kinda sounds like the Season 1 (i think) finale of Stargate where one of the main cast got sent to a universe where the Earth was under siege and was certain to be obliterated
The very concept of divergent timelines is based on the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics. Parallel timelines superficially similar to our own but diverging in important ways actually makes complete sense in this model. So many divergent timelines are created in the many worlds interpretation that any scenario you can imagine exists in some timeline. With the ability to access divergent timelines, parallel timelines which maintain a stable relationship with your prime timeline would be easier to access on a repeated basis precisely because of the stable relationship. The many worlds of quantum physics are an infinite ocean of possibilities. A parallel timeline is like a ship following a course parallel to your own and so is easier to locate.
Given the higher amount of battles being fought, and the legitimacy of assassination in the hierarchy makes the odds of finding alternate established characters even slimmer.
An explanation for the Mirror Universe being so close to the prime timeline could be that they are in some sort of quantum-resonance that keeps events happening in both places but with opposite outcomes in terms of good & evil. Like an entagled Doom Field or something.
I recall reading in the STA book that the Dominion in the Mirror-verse were good bois like the Prime Federation and the Prime Dominion was super panicked about that.
Outside of Star Trek we see stories of parallel universes. When I see how they tend to remain recognizeably parallel, I suggest as a plot device that there is a kind of resonance among universes so they don't stray too far away from one another.
"why do all these prime universe characters have a mirror counterpart?"
"So the movie can happen"
Because it’s a Mirror Universe.
If it’s Mirror Universe for Kirk, it’s got to be a Mirror Universe for Picard as well.
The timelines always have to gravitate back to a common timeline.
I would love to see a story where Mirror Jadzia Dax is still alive and interacts with Prime Ezri Dax.
What was the intro music? I have heard it before but of course can't remember it now.
Should've played the Outro music backwards 😅😅
the opening credits of those two episodes of enterprise also show the soviets winning the space race, which implies the third reich still lost the second war.
Pretty trippy concept
Living Witness was the mirror Voyager episode and no one can convince me otherwise.
I tend to think our universe might take a path resembling something in between.
That being said. I would like to see a series for the mirror universe
"sir we have been boarded by the Andorian rebels"
"activate the Dark Troopers"
Dupstep music followed by panic and suffering follows.
LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE.
in all seriousness the Terran Empire NEEDS its own show and dedicated lore.