[Ep 23] My 2 cents worth on Darksiding - 2018 Honda Goldwing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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When I replaced the car tire on my 2013 f6b the bead was so tight on the rim it was damn near impossible to get the old tire off the rim. The person in your story must not had his tire fully seated on the rim. I have dark siding for almost 20 years and I have never heard of that happening.
Count me a non darksider
I went Darkside years ago after having a tire separation at freeway speed on a Bridgestone tire....the sidewall looked like a banana and if it had completely ruptured it would have been catastrophic. Going after a tire company is a joke, forget it, they dont want to hear it and Bridgestone denied any culpability, they said "It must have been caused by a road hazard".....after much research and soul searching, I went darkside. After riding with a CT on back for about 15 minutes, you adjust to the handling....I can assure you it does not affect your ability to navigate twisty mountain roads. I get about triple the mileage on the CT as opposed to MC tires. I ONLY use "run flat" car tires, which have much heavier beads and sidewalls. The only place must be really cautious is at very slow speed on broken or uneven pavement. The flatter profile wants to follow the curvature of the pavement, where as at speed, it is a non issue. Entering turns requires a slight bit of counter steering to set line through corner, and then it corners as if on rails. I have been totally happy with my experience going Dark. There is a treasure grove of information on the Darksider forum, with tire reviews, and the experience of running millions of miles on car tires. I am running a Yokohama run flat on my 2004 wing now and love it. And as far as the guy that had the bead break, It would be interesting to know the tire pressure when that occured, was he running too low tire pressure ????? That would be my bet. After assisting in the installation of the tires on my bike, I have NEVER thought that a bead could break, breaking the bead once installed takes an act of God, and a tire machine!! Keep up the good work on your videos, thanks for all the information you provide.
I echo your sentiments whole heartedly! I'm running a Pirelli P1 Run Flat.
I read all the comments, but no one acknowledged the fact that, as per Cruiseman, the dude did not lose control of the bike. If a MC tire would lose pressure like that, what would happen?
It happened to me. As pressure drops below about 10 psi, it starts wondering away from a straight line. It's still steer-able. I had just purchased the bike from the original owner and it had Avon Cobras on front and back and the rear tire was 5 years old with a decent amount of tread left -- well above the wear mark. Mine deflated inside 10 seconds from a split between the tread that looked like either dry-rot or a manufacturing defect. (It certainly wasn't UV damaged.) Thankfully I was out of traffic and driving in a straight line. MC tires are designed to stay on the rim in that circumstance, and it did, which allows you to drive it at 1-3 mph w/o damaging the rim of you have to, to get off the road or across a parking lot to get to or from a tow truck.
Had I been on a heavily-loaded turn, I can't speak with any authority on how it would have gone because it has neither happened to me nor have I studied the matter to any extent from available data. But I'll say this: it would not be fun.
If just one tire manufacturer would approve of using a car tire on a motorcycle, then I’ll try it.
I have thought about it, 3 reasons why at this point I won’t go dark side. The rim issue not made for a car tire, the insurance issue could be a factor in an accident , and like guy said, if we went down on the bike and it was a tire issue and my wife was injured or killed, I don’t know what I would do without her.
The Bridgestone drive guard 195/55r 16 87von the back of a goldwing is good, even if you lose air, it’s designed to not go flat, can ride to a station or place to be fixed. As I watch Caliente and others take on the dragon. I was convinced it was safe, I’m sure it will take a bit to get used to.the Bridgestone battleax is great on front and back.
That's what I have on mine
I remember, in the late 70's, all my friends with Street bikes going darkside. Most of my friend were riding the Honda 750s. So darksiding has been going on for at least 40 years. And you tell about one guy who had a problem. It leads me to believe that he had an issue other than the tire being a car tire. Ride Safe My Friend.
A fair point.
Not only is the beading different but so are the compounds. The MC sidewalls are constructed to be ridden on, the CT sidewalls are not. More importantly and why the MC tire doesn't last nearly as long is traction. Simply put, the rubber on an MC tire is stickier than the rubber on the CT and thus it wears a lot faster.
I think that the performance that people are seeing is a testament to just how good tires are made and of course companies build FAR more CTs than MTs and thus the price will be lower (due to total number made & economies of scale).
But ultimately this is all about risk. If you want to run a CT, in my view, you are increasing your level of risk and as long as you know that then fine. But don't fool yourself into thinking a CT is "safer", you are only deluding yourself. Of course you can come up with scenarios where you feel a CT is safer and in some circumstances it may be but overall I don't believe they are when considering all modes of riding. My view is "why take the chance"?
Not exactly correct. The Michelin Alpin performance winter tire has a high silica content for traction at least as good as a MC tire. Speed rating is higher as is load capacity. It's also a "Z" or run-flat. I get about 9K. with a MC rear tire and about 11 to 12 K on the Michelin. Notice I said "Performance Winter tire", not "All Season" tire. Just FYI. The aforementioned Winter tire does not have a Mileage rating and is not required to. It is a traction tire, not a long mileage tire. Longevity is sacrificed for traction.
I’m a darksider and I don’t disagree with anything you said. I have a Michelin car tire on the back of my 2013. I like it. Will I stay darkside? I’m not really sure. I’m getting up there in age (64) and have been experiencing some stability issues with balance. I’m not sure if the car tire has anything to do with it but I am probably going back to a MC tire just to see if there’s any difference. I still have the tire and rim with the Dunlop tire on it so may be making a change.
@Al Parzke, that's my fear about dark siding my F6B I'm 63 and don't want to retrain how I ride - I don't do twisty roads - most are highway straight, plus I'm not a high mileage rider - so I don't need to go 30K on a tire. thanks for your post for us older riders.
Good presentation. You have to remember the earliest MC tires were virtually the same as car tires. I remember my dad's old Harley's and Indians with those type of tires but like everything else cycles have evolved and with that so have tires. If you follow Moto GP you know that the tires are probably the most decisive factor between winning and losing and those costly R & D transfer directly to the street. If you're mostly a flat lander and stay within the speed limit you can probably get away with car tires. I've been riding for over 40 years mostly in the twisties and would never compromise my safety to save a few bucks. I see these Gold Wings with all kinds of useless costly bling but ironically they don't want premium rubber which to me is as important as premium riding gear. Sure you don't need a expensive helmet but some day it might save your life.
I have have heard hundreds of stories of tire issues with motorcycle tires that fail while riding. Now I have heard one form the darkside but that was secondhand.
Amen Droner....
Your moto vlogs have interesting content, that is why I watch. Please keep them coming. The scenery is not bad either.
Great vid Cruiseman. I guess i am neutral on this issue. I have no experience with Darkside. For me..id just rather stick with MC tires. To the guy that rides Darkside i say all good for you. Im neither here nor there on this. I will Never say Never..its just MC tires for MemphisMike now!
That is my position.
Totally agree with you MM.... I’m going to stay with a Mc tire. But hey cuddos to anyone that uses a car tire. It’s your bike your money, and most importantly your decisions. So everyone riding on a MC tire, or a CT ride safe and enjoy the ride.👍🏻🇺🇸🙏🏻😎 Hoosier Wing our!!
Very good video cruiseman... I just got my new Bridgestones Mc tires today. Excited about getting them on my wing along with some centramatics balancers as well. Ride safe my friend... Hoosier Wing our!!👍🏻🇺🇸😊😎🙏🏻
Great job on the dark side issue. I say do whatever you want to do. However, I have run Dunlop American elites (bias ply) tires on big heavy Harley Roadglides that go 930 lbs and have gotten 20,000 miles or better on the rear tire and even more on the front. That's not bad for a bike. If you can't afford it then perhaps you are in the wrong sport.....
Great video and interesting comments. The wing will more than likely be my next bike. I'm pretty much in the same mindset as you and Memphis Mike along with some others. Although I can't help but wonder how many tire beads have broken away from the rim with a motorcycle tire, for whatever reason.
Great job Cruiseman. I have had a 2002 GoldWing since Newyears eve 2004, and a friend sold me a rear rim w a slightly used car tire on it. At low speed, the bike handled like a wheelbarrow full of water. At highway speed it was a cushier ride than a bike tire. I got a screw in the rear car tire a mile from home,, removed it and tried to plug it, but the steel belts were too thick to penetrate with the reaming stick, so I used a drill. Then the plug wouldn't stay in the tire. So I figured if I ever had a flat on the road, it would be difficult to repair. Just not worth the hassle. If someone can afford a 27,000$ Motorcycle, they should be able to afford the tires made specifically for said motorcycle and enjoy the peace of mind and superior handling it offers. Kenton from St Louis, 342,000 miles on mine and still love it.
A true Darksider would say that you could opt for a run-flat rear tire. But, I would think a run-flat would be a harsher ride, and even LESS sidewall to take the force.
If the pressure in MC tire was as low as the CT, it would have popped the bead as well. I've popped beads when changing car tires on MC rims, and I can honestly say they hold on just as tight as a MC tire in my experience (I've changed hundreds of tires over the years). I believe his issue was due to lost pressure.
Been darksiding for a year and love it. Was only getting 4800 to 5200 miles on mc tire on my voyager..3 tires a year was a bit much..still on the same car tire a year later..it's not for everybody and that's fine...just my opinion
Also as far as burgers i love the baconator from Wendy's
I did not know what Darksiding was, until now. But I cannot understand that anyone would want to mount car tyres on a motorbike. A friend of mine has a cartyre on his Goldwing, but he is riding with a sidecar and to me that's the only use for car tyres on a motorbike.
Or a trike.
True
I run a Michelin car tire on my 2002 Honda VTX1800R. After nearly 20k miles it shows negligible wear. It does handle different, but overall feel very safe with the extra stopping & accelerating traction combined with higher weight carrying capacity. May switch to another car tire that provides less flat surface eventually. Would use another MC tire if they every make them to last significantly longer, which they could do.
Good video Cruiserman. I ran a car tire on my 2006 Nomad for 40k miles with no issue. I had a gentleman tell me how I could be flirting with the legal issue of running a car tire on a motorcycle. This was coming from a man on a gold wing towing a trailer! I didn’t have the nerve to ask him how many motorcycle manufacturers frown on towing a trailer on a motorcycle. It wasn’t worth my time. Not sure if I buy into the difference in beads from car rims to motorcycle rims. One of the reasons I went ahead and ran the car tire on my nomad was that the nomad was certainly not a canyon carver so I wasn’t running it drag on the floor boards on Kirby roads. The reason I’m not running one on my victory XCT is that the victory handle so well I didn’t want to change the way the bike handled because they do handled differently with the car tire. I also don’t buy in to the logic that a high-performance moderate muscle car has four tires to handle the side loads as opposed to one tire on the motorcycle. Muscle cars that are making a hard left turn under full power at the limit of traction are almost transferring 80% of that load to the outside two tires. That’s 4000 pounds on two tires. Watching video of these cars in slow motion they are putting so much pressure on those two outside tires that the rim is almost on the pavement. I can’t imagine a motorcycle applying more force against the sidewall in that same situation. That’s just my opinion
I agree with your analysis of the force on the two tires vs four. However, it is a different type of force. On a car, the sidewalls are flexing left to right while the tread remains flat on the road surface, on a motorcycle (in a leaned turn) the force is being applied to the edge of the tread in a downward fashion while at the same time flexing the sidewall. I would suspect that car tires are so over-engineered that in most cases they will withstand this "unusual" force without failure.
I also agree with you that I don't feel like there is a legal issue running car tire and your point about pulling a trailer is valid. You can make the same argument about most aftermarket accessories (highway pegs, handlebar risers, etc.)
Re darksiding: not for me -- I spend a great deal of time leaning my '02 GL1800 pretty hard and pushing curves. There are long stretches of road in Colorado that are nothing BUT curves. And nimble, consistent handling and transitioning in and out of those 45-50-degree leans is extremely important to the feel, traction and safety in my opinion. In these circumstances, I'm pushing the tires to close to their limits of traction, and given that tires are the difference between life and death on Colorado curves, using a tire that is DESIGNED for what I am doing is VITAL.
Now if I were to set out into a riding season with intent to do 5-10 Iron Butt Association rides, which by mere speed/time constraints dictate that most of that time would be spent on the freeway with only my own safety involved, I MIGHT consider it to save $$ money on tires. But I would do so knowing 2 things: I'd be giving up my cherished good handling (this topic deserves a lot more attention than I am giving it here), and I'd be constantly alert for any trouble and would go back to Metzeler ME888's in a heartbeat at the first sign of anything unexpected. (ME888's are supposed to get 20K miles, so I understand. I will know a lot more about this after I burn through my first set -- starting next tire change.)
Re fast-food burgers: #1 = In and Out Burger, hands down, though we have none in Colorado, and #2 Good Times, which we DO have in Colorado. #3 is a tie between Culver's Butter Burger and BK Whoppers. :-)
A goldwing nimble and pushed into corners, surely you jest!!!
I've been riding Goldwings since 1977. I rode darkside on my 06 till I sold it to get my 2018. There is a bit of a learning curve, but I got used to it very quickly. The number one concern I read was that people were not keeping an eye on the air pressure of the tire. That was a big guy in your video and if his wife was the same size AND he was running low air pressure I could see that MAYBE happening. With proper air pressure I would say no way. I have mounted and removed car tires on my wings. They don't break rim or come off easily!! I respect everyone's choice. It is up to them, but I have always felt very safe on a "properly inflated" car tire. Good video.
I'm betting that big guy was lazy and never got down to inspect his tires never mind check there pressures. Can't blame the tire in his case.
My thoughts as well....300+ + 250+ + the eleven hundred on a dressed out bike equals a lot of hog wallowing....low pressure and it's a event waiting to happen.....heck ...every so often I'll ride the tire off a rim on my lawn mower.....cause I don't keep enuff air pressure in it...don't blame the tool for non maintenance.....just sayin.....Waffle House....burgers are reserved for better restaurants....😅.......
It sounds like he was running too low of a pressure.
Let's play Creepy Slimy Personal Injury Attorney for a minute. Your new girlfriend of two weeks was on your bike, an accident occurred. She don't like you anymore. Her neck hurts and she has a scar on her legs. I would think your going to pay pay pay. If there is an injury, the attorney will investigate. They would sue you, the tire manufacture the motorcycle manufacturer, who ever has deeper pockets. Then they all not wanting to pay or take responsibility throw you under the bus. I think you could have more to lose than gain . \
Now THAT would be a legal liability issue, in a personal injury lawsuit. However, your liability insurance should still cover you up to your limits.
Those same lawyers will sue you for anything, maybe even distracted driving from Vlogging!! Lol....sorry, just had to throw that in Cruiseman
Cruiseman, thanks for your observation and opinion, I'm a highway rider mostly on the Honda F6B and I don't ride in too much bad weather so I don't feel a need to retrain how I ride especially since I'm in my mid-sixties. I kind of like riding like an old man! LOL. Thanks for all you do for GW riders
I rode my 1300 VTX dark sided for about three or four years, and the reason I took it off is that I was planning to trade the bike in and they really ding you in price for having a car tire on it. Later I heard about the possibility of insurance maybe not covering you in an accident, and that kind of made me think about going dark side on my Victory, I really wanted to put a car tire on my Victory, but when I had to change the rear tire I didn't know what size would interchange with it.
It will have no effect on an insurance claim. You are not advised to pull a trailer with your bike but if you do and you have an accident your insurance will still pay there is no difference.
TERRY Glisson Insurance companies LOVE any excuse not to cover a claim especially if it's a major accident with injuries or fatalities. Good luck with that "no effect" stance in a serious accident. Again if it's a major accident the insurance company will investigate before forking out millions...... I personally won't take that chance, if your willing to gamble I guess its YOUR call.
Whatever you do your choice but we should all know we are being ripped off by motorcycle tire companies $300 for a tire that may go $15,000 MI I understand why so many people have gone darksided I have not tried it yet but my assumption is it's just like sex if you have not tried it don't knock it
Sorry Cruiseman....I had to stop you 3 minutes in to comment. I'm about to buy my 6th motorcycle (2021 grey Goldwing that I am adding the factory tour pack to). My 3rd bike was a 2002 Goldwing. Halfway through owning it I went to the darkside on it and you can tell absolutely no difference at all. People forget that you don't run the car tires at full inflation. I ran mine at 22psi. So the side wall flexes considerably when you lean into a corner and "rolls". It does not feel unstable at all. If you search on TH-cam you will find a video where a guy ran the Dragon using a car tire and a camera mounted behind the bike facing the rear tire. That video made me decide to go that route. Great videos! Thanks!
Just not for me.... I’ll stay with a motorcycle tire. If you have a car tire on your bike good for you. My bike, my money and my business. Bottom line. There’s always a argument by some one and there never sould be a argument. Ride safe always see ya all at WD 41😎🙏🏻🇺🇸👍🏻
I think that the motorcycle tire manufacturers should make a hybrid tire that will be half and half.
A MC tire that would last 20,000 miles would solve this issue, AND, it is certainly doable. All they have to do is make a tire with a harder compound in the centerline of the tire. It might ride a little rougher, but a lot of folks would live with the trade-off.
Now we are making some sense, the reason we Darksiders have gone dark is because of crappy motorcycle tire performance. Cupping, separating, wobbling, low mileage, expletive causing performance....
I went dark side on my ctx700 8,000 miles ago, if you haven't experienced it everything you say about dark siding is just mental jimnastics, I won't be going back to a motorcycle tire, each to his own.
I dark side a gold wing on the rear tire And darkside motorcycle rear tire on the front. Almost 40000 miles on both If you like to cruise on a motorcycle it's great. If you're on the wild side and you like mountain and a lot of curves I wouldn't recommend it. Growing up in the fifties and the sixties my Uncle that's all they had was car tires. Take it for what it's worth.
'Darksiding'. Stupid term, stupid idea. Spend 30,000 +/- on a bike, and cheap out on a tire to save a couple $s? Have at it - just stay far away from me, and I hope you don't carry a passenger.
Big factor i think is how do you know what is a good size car tire to use, big issue with the gentleman you spoke of might have been the wrong size tire he used improper installation.who know .
The issue for me and statement I haven't heard is WHY!
Because of tire failures and shortcomings is why we are even having this conversations .
How many version of a tire from a well known brands and they say this one offer longer wear life, but do they ? If I could get around 20k in a run flat design out of MC tire riding two up with gear. I would return to MC tire. But I want a prorated warranty, only reason for the warranty is I heard this song and dance before. " This new MC tire has longer tread life" If the manufacturers had listen to tons of complaints about big heavy touring bikes not getting mileage life out of their tires, and made a heavy duty touring MC tire we all would have a MC tire now. But a large amount of big bike owners either trailer their bike to a event or destination or they are weekenders and don't put a lot of miles on a bike or they ride solo. So its no surprise that the manufacturer make what they do. Most bike owners have no problems with the wear life. For me it was my new improved MC tire with only 2k on it and a belt failure causing the tire to have a thumping sound with no visible outside damage. The cherry on top was we were 1500 miles from home and tire shopping on our road trip. That was seven years ago. I have had a car tire ever since and we had many trips and have stopped many wonderful roadside shop but none of them have been a tire shop. Before when I was riding on MC tires like clockwork every year a week or two before our big summer trip I would buy new tires. And now with a car tire on the rear I will go about 2 years before I change out my rear tire and it will still have a lot of tread left. The plus side for car tire other than tread life is I can buy a more expensive run flat and still save money. Another plus is shorter stopping distance rain or shine. The peace of mind of a run flat. If a MC tire works for you that's awesome. I'm not trying to change your mind I'm only trying to change less tires.
Great point on the bead seal on a darksided goldwing motorcycle that weights around 1000 plus pounds with a passenger. Hopefully some wise guy will make a motorcycle rim that's design to work with the bead seal of a car tire. The problem of losing the seal could even happen when people put a larger or smaller tire on a motorcycle that wasn't designed for the bike. I miss you at Wing Ding I got there on Saturday morning. "Great job"
With 2 overweight people plus luggage, you're easily talking over 1300 lbs for the whole bike, and that's without a trailer hitch or trailer.
It's not rude to guess that the guy in the inset with passenger and gear was on an overloaded bike. In that case under hard G's I could see the bead cracking off the rim.
I ride darkside and carve corners hard on an all season Yokohama Avid Envigor and do so down to 40 degrees and no issues.
All this said, I find this opinion to be of questionable worth coming from a guy that's never tried it and who infrequently rides curvy roads.
So I need to get shot first before I can say that getting shot is a bad thing?
How can anyone have an opinion on barf flavored jelly beans if they haven't tried one? THEY CAN'T!
How can anyone have an opinion on darksiding when they haven't tried it? THEY CAN'T!
He states "a car tire won't handle in the twisties". He never tried it! HE IS JUST ASSUMING!
Guys like this who don't darkside always say the same things... "you lose handling" (bullshit) "sidewall can't take the stress" (bullshit)"insurance won't pay" (bullshit)"bead different" Story about the overweight people unseating the bead. Could of happened on a motorcycle tire also. Maybe it was low on air or just overloaded.
One story is all it takes, Cruiseman? I call Bullshit! The truth is; you made up your mind a long time ago about darksiding. You know that's true, because you don't darkside. Like you, I don't care if you use motorcycle tires on your bike; the difference between us is, I don't get in your face about it.
Someone else made a valid point. How many car tires do you see on sport bikes at the track? And, I don't think I got in anybody's face about Darksiding. I said in the video, more than once, anyone who wants to ride on the Darkside is fine with me. Why are Darksiders so defensive?
How can you have opinions on something you know nothing about? You spread "hear say" about a bead unseating from some guy you never met before, as fact. Did you ever take into consideration that there may have been other factors that caused the issue (if indeed there was an issue)? How can you say for certain it wouldn't have happened with a motorcycle tire? If: The riders were overweight; the bike was overloaded; there was an obstruction in the road; the tires were under inflated, the rim was defected; driver error; a tube was installed; a tube was installed incorrectly... do I need to go on?
Chris Caliente is now double darksiding and unlike you, has experience and can intelligently comment on the subject. So sit down, chew on your crayons and watch Chris as he tells about his darksiding adventures. ☻
I run darkside on my Valk, I really like it so far. I will say tho, IMO if your bike comes from the factory with a 200 or wider rear tire, I would NOT suggest Darkside for you. I run a 195 car tire, and the flat spot on the tire is very minimal and My bike still handles great, I will say you notice a difference on a offcamber or slanted riding surface, the flatter tire needs alittle more input on the handlebars to hold the riding line.
I will say, the WIDER the car tire, the WORSE the handling characteristic are gonna be. Most touring bikes use 200 or smaller rear tire, so i have no issue suggesting Darkside for them. I just wouldnt suggest it for bikes that have 200+ rear tires.
On page 4 of my 2008 GW Owners Manual, below a WARNING of serious injury or death, it says specifically not to pull a trailer or sidecar. To me, trailering seems unwise and, if I tried it and anything happened to a passenger/loved one, "I may not be able to live with myself". Besides I, "researched" it on the internet, and talked to a guy who told me a story... . Conversely, I feel safe with a RUN FLAT car tire, and if anything ever happened, I'd want to see empirical evidence it was the tire's fault. Despite both of the above, millions of miles have been racked up by motorcyclists pulling trailers and/or on car tires. Many here have tried one but not the other, and bash the one we have not tried while promoting the other. We can all speculate/arm chair quarterback, but if truly concerned about loved ones and safety, it seems the only consistent logic is to avoid doing EITHER. On the other hand, maybe if I tried trailering I may discover many riders out there know something I don't. On second thought, maybe I should just offer my 2-cents on how unsafe and dumb it is. Of course, the same could be said of the other party regarding car tires.
Can you point to the timecode in the video where I claimed anyone to be "dumb" for Darksiding? I don't even think I declared it "unsafe". I just cited examples from people I overheard. I have my concerns, but I respect anyone's right to use whatever tire they wish.
No, you have not done so, but that is the jist of many of the comments here. The issue of DS is usually polarizing; folks line up on one side or the other, with strong, emotional opinions. I wonder if trailering was ever such a polarizing issue.
Great point on the bead. I've never heard/read that before. I think the insurance issue would only be an issue if the officer noted on the accident report the rear car tire. Officer may call it unsafe equipment or tire not designed for motorcycle on report. I am retired LEO & I would not have tagged it in my reports unless I thought it was a contributor to the crash. Most crashes it would not be. I've read that some are buying car tires that are so soft they are not lasting much longer than a premium bike tire. That I don't understand. I don't use them because I like to corner very hard & I don't want to have to push the bike harder into corners. I also do not like a sidewall not designed for a bike & now the bead issue. I think those who want to use them should & generally I do not think they are unsafe.
And, as I stated in my video, if you commute on fairly flat surfaces, or ride from Dallas to Midland, Texas, with no turn for 350 miles, it might be a good option.
CDN 1.5 cents - no dark side for me! Like one of your discussion group, I wouldn’t be able to face anyone if I had a car tire on my bike and anyone got hurt as a result of it. On a different issue - I’m wondering how long tires are lasting on the new 2018 GW both front and back. First with new suspension on front tire how’s that affecting the tire wear? Maybe Max (Triaxxion) has some comments?, and larger (wider)back tire? The lesser weight of the bike? Lots of questions - I’m a little above 17,000km (10,500 miles) and so far the wear seems okay - I’ve started to notice a different feel from new (broken in) tires but still no real issues. I’m fairly vigilante on checking pressure and I’m running at Honda recommendations 36 front and 41 back. In my previous 2017 GW I ran higher than recommended pressure (shop mechanic suggestion). Could there be more guys riding new Wings than Dark side tires - just guessing.
I am at about 6500 miles on my Dunlops. I am not a Dunlop fan, but even my Stones would only be good for about 11,000 before they started to ride rough on my 2012. I will probably be using Dynabeads when I put on new tires.
Previous bike was / is a 2007 not 2017
In Canada the new 2018 GW come with Bridgestone tires
Hi Cruiseman the dark side in my opinion has no compelling arguments at all! If you can't afford motorcycle tires, you can't afford a motorcycle. Buy a push bike and get fit instead.
Cheers,🏍
Well if he was riding the bike he looked huge and the bike was probably over the weight limit and the tire was probably was not inflated enough. I have ridden Darkside for 21 years on my Valks since I was only getting 7000k on a bike tire and do 12-15k per year. So spending that much on bike tires is very expensive. People pay no attention to the wgt limit of motorcycles and 395lbs is the max limit. so adding rider and passenger I am confident he was over wgt. Also, with the Darkside when the tire is flat it is less traumatic then a bike tire. So appreciate your videos for sure. Keep up the good work.
Could be,. He was a pretty big fellow. But, how many ride bikes over the recommended weight limit. I am getting close to the opinion that there may be as many positives as negatives to darksiding.
Whataburger is my favorite by far. I never understood why folks think In and Out is so good, like my kids. I’d easily rather have McD than in and out
One more comment: we're all drawing conclusions (or not) based on information we have been exposed to. If insurance companies started keeping track of such things, the statistics derived from that would really show whether there are any EMPERICAL trends either in favor or against. Meanwhile, we are all responsible for our own safety and for those in our care, and until I can see the broad-based empirical data, and being an engineer, I feel safer on tires designed for the stresses I am going to be putting on them (considerable). And I don't bat an eye about paying a little more for that certainty. Even if I am wrong, the peace of mind is worth it.
That is the first and only time I've ever even heard of a ct problem. Probably under inflated and over loaded. I use a run flat just in case. If money is the only reason then your just a cheap pucker.. LOL
It could be that we only hear from the proponents of Darksiding. I talked with the manager of a Honda dealership the other day who said he rode a customer's bike who had a car tire and he could barely control the bike. I suspect there could be a lot of people who have gone to the Darkside and gone back to MC tires and they just don't talk about it.
I've researched this subject and learned that motorcycle tires are softer for the ability to conform to the road and grip better. Car tires are harder and squared off. That means that when you lean, only the corner of the tire will be contacting the road. Much smaller area of contact means much less gripping. And, that rubber is harder and what little rubber there is contacting the road is less confirming to the pavement to effect a grip. You think I'm going to cut the performance of the tire I'm betting my life on to save a buck? No thank you. I'll gladly pay the price of changing the tire more often so to gain the maximum safety.
Well said
I'm totally with you on that one
Watch some videos of Darksiders videoing the rear tire contact patch, looking directly at the tires, both motorcycle and run flat car tires, the contact patch is larger on the CT, and these were done while riding the Dragon.
You are riding a bike worth AUD$40k+, so the ONLY opinion that counts is that of your insurance company. I feel enough said.
And according to my insurance company they don't care what tire I am running I ask them.
Terry, That's good news. Get it in writing, and then the choice becomes your own. Keep it shiny side up and safe riding.
Dark Siding has been around for as long as motorcycles. Everyone thinks its new just because of social media. All you have to do is watch yellow wolf on Deals Gap with a rear car tire if you think it affects handling that much He has talked about it in a couple of forums Yes I am a double dark sider and I don't have any problem with anyone not wanting to dark side. The problem I have is when non dark siders tell me how stupid I am for doing something that they have never tried and I have been doing for years without one single issue.
Amen brother.....
Culver’s. The best.
You crossed the line ! When you bad mouthed White Castle . Other wise good video .ride safe
Uh oh!
I have never considered putting a car tire on my motorcycle. I understand that there would be a huge price advantage but for me Safety is the most important thing when you are already taking risk. I have never been to the track when sport bikes are running and saw a car tire on the back of a bike. Face it, the forces on a motorcycle tire are completely different than what’s applied to a car tire. Under all circumstances the car tire remains perpendicular to the pavement. A motorcycle applies its greatest force on the tire when the tire is farthest from being perpendicular to the pavement. To say there has never been a documented case of a car tire causing an accident as proof that it must be ok doesn’t hold weight. There is no check box on the accident report asking what type tire was on the bike. If there was then we would have evidence.
Not in a million years would I put a car tire on a motorcycle.
I bought a Goldwing because I have faith and trust in Honda’s engineers. I have no personal feelings on going to the dark side. Me. I will ride what the Honda engineers designed it for. If I cannot afford the tires, I can’t afford the bike. And I like to ride. Hardly any chicken strips on my wing.
Y’all be safe out there!
For the guy who claims his car tire came off the rim, if it was a "run flat" design tire, I call BS. Most darksiders use run flat car tires, for several good, safety related reasons. Further, if you have ever tried to mount a run flat car tire on a Goldwing rim, you'd know why I call BS.
I don't think it came OFF the rim, but the bead broke loose and it lost all of the air.
I'm with you Joe....let one of these nervous Nellie's mount a Yokahama Avid Envigor RF on the Goldwing rim.....it ain't just gonna pop off, now it might take a D9 Caterpillar to get it off once its on!!
Krystal and Whitecastle is sister Franchises I believe. But I Like Five Guys and BK Whoppers! Be Safe and Happy Trails my Friend. Motorman in Da Magnolia
As always you make great vlogs. As for dark siding, I am still not sure. I like doing curvy roads. Earlier this year a group of 7 riders went to N. Ga for 10 days. We did have one accident. That bike crossed the center line n side swiped a big SUV it ended up totaling the bike,but no injuries thank goodness. It seems we all agree dark siding is not for us. On curvy roads... however if I were to ride only straight roads n had a proper rim to car tire I would consider it , because of the cost difference and milage gained by going dark. Keep up the great work you do. Mike/Turtle
PS I live in the flat lands of S.W. Florida.....
Cruiseman, I am glad you brought up the rim contour issue. I commented on the video made by that Goldwing rider from Memphis who just went to the darkside. I unsubscribed from his channel because everytime I watched a Vid he was shouting about Double Darkside, LOL I appreciate all your video's and keep up the good work and I will keep watching.
WHATABURGER has The Best HAMBURGER IN TEXAS.......Bar None. I have eaten at In and Out....Never Again.
Maybe you should put one on your own bike before you talk about it or at least ride someone else’s with one. You are just spreading secondhand information,both ways. Experience it or be quiet.
Cruiseman, just darksided my '08 today and put 150 miles on it. took it on the interstate, twisties and a myriad of other type road scenarios and I cant believe how wonderful the ride was. I'm sold and will never go back to an MC tire on my GW. The aspects I really liked was how stable the bike felt at 80+mph speeds. There is absolutely no wind buffering moving the bike around and I attributed the it to the wider tire which makes the bike want to stand straight up. With that said, I found it just as nimble around curves. If you ride a lot, I recommend trying it before you knock it. Once you go dark, you never go back.
???? You tested the new 2021 Honda Gold wing doesn't that have a car tire? No one that tested the 2021 Goldwing have had any problems. I know this is a 2018 upload but car tires are great on the 2021 that I tested.
Cruiseman in not putersavey, so mayb u might put this out n help some wingers. I got crippled lower legs n can't get the wing up on the centerstand. So this woke get 2 wood boards 3/4"x 6"x 8" long n one board alittle shorter. Put the long board down in front of rear tire. Ride bike up on board. Stop boke n put short board under kickstand. Lower rear shock to 0. Now step on centerstand n raise bike. I can raise mine like this . Hope's this helps other folks
Some of the reasoning against doesn't seem to me very lucid. If darksiding were any more dangerous than normal riding there would be less riders doing it, if for no other reason than accidents and thinning out of those riders. Arguments against always seem to contain feely "ifs" and never seem to be a product of actually trying it. Stories from "some guy", " what about muh insurance" and the like.
Anecdotal, yes, but in 30 years of riding and racing I have witnessed dozens of motorcycle tire failures. They don't magically make you immune just because they have "motorcycle" printed on them.
Of course no business is going to advocate anything that could create a legal exposure. Remember, your owners manual is edited by lawyers, not engineers. Cruiserman says himself he would like to be able to "go after" the tire mfr if something were to happen, so there is that.
Tire failures happen, it is a reality. Just operating a motorcycle puts you in a jeopardy far beyond any effects of tire choice imo, especially if skills are lacking.
I personally can not understand why you would want to put a car tire on your motorcycle. I would have to say for me it is the same reason why I have a Schuberth helmet. How much is your head worth? From my perspective it's not worth the risk for the type of riding I want to do to compromise my safety for a few bucks! Also, I would never be able to forgive myself if compromised my wife's safety because I though I could save a few bucks on a tire. Motorcycle tires like car tires are purpose built, they are designed for the rigors that motorcycles are operated under. One last thing that I think would also be a game changer for me, is that the motorcycle tire is way better suited to run flat than a car tire. Just my POV from my soap box. Thanks Cruiseman for all you do to help the GW community.
dark siding is nothing new people have been doing it since the first motorcycles came out. I think dark siding has its place in certain scenarios Me personally I use both. if I’m going on long trips 2 up pulling my trailer I install the wheel with the car tire. The added durability of the car tire and the extra load capacity along with a run flat feature is why I use them. If I’m just commuting around town or doing short rides no trailer the motorcycle wheel/tire goes back on. I started about 10 years ago never had a problem. I did have a flat once But I was able to drive it to a tire shop on the run flat and have it fixed and the bead never came off the rim. i’m guessing the rigid carcass and hard sidewall of the run flat tire may have helped keep the bead from coming off. either way I am completely aware of different characteristics of the car tire i have on the back of my bike. am i gonna go blowing through the twisties hard on the throttle coming out of corners? probably not. That’s what the motorcycle tire is for. I know some guys do it without issues It’s just not for me. to me the Goldwing is like a long haul truck that will eat up miles reliably. if I wanna go scrape foot pegs i’ll just hop my sport bike.
My bike is a Kawasaki 1600 Nomad with a DMC sidecar so the bike doesn't lean. I have the proper size tire, but so far have had two shops refuse to do it for me.
I’m a retired Insurance broker and knows policy forms well. There are no exclusions on insurance for using improper equipment on your vehicle. I would never put a car tire on my bike but insurance pays for your stupid mistakes both on damage to your bike or injuries or damage to others. There is no stupidity exclusion.
Hopefully the MC Tire dealers will give us an optional footprint that models a car tire
ME888's have a slightly "squatter" curve to them, giving them a larger contact patch when vertical. Probably part of the reason they get (reportedly) 20K per set. Maybe more with improved suspension, though this is speculation until I get through my first set.
@@vics-videos ,Let me know how many miles you get when you change your set. Right now I'm Bridgestones. Said I'd try the Dunlops, but I got a set of Stones for less than $200, so I went back to the stones
I can't disagree with anything that you said in this video. Makes complete sense to me but it is an individual's choice.
have a ct on my vn900 rides much better than the mc tire and has last for 20000 miles so far bike tires were goin out at 8000 and 200 apiece
Hey Cruise man this is Philly D first of all I'd like to thank you for the shout out when were at wingding 40 I appreciate it getting the chance to talk to you I think you're a great guy and your expert advice on how to do repairs on the Goldwing is unmatched as far as the dark side in issue I've watched Chris's videos and I haven't made a decision yet on whether or not I would go that route but I have no issue with doing my own Tire work and replacing my own tires because that's what I do for me it's easy now as far as my favorite burger place there's a place up north here called Five Guys and I believe that they have by far the very best burgers I've tasted in a long time if you ever get an opportunity I would invite you to try one you won't be disappointed once again thanks for the motovlog and once again thank you and I appreciate all the hard work that you do for us Philly D out👍
Hey Philly. D good to hear from you! I know all about Five Guys. We have them here in Texas and a friend and I try to go there once a week. Expensive burger, but probably the best one around. I like In-And-Out for a "fast food" cheap burger, but Five Guys is the best burger all-around.
How much air pressure was in his tire, Firestone was sued because people were driving there cars with 22 lb, or less in there tires!
Silly goldwinger, car tires are for cars....sorry, I'm a purist.
There is no downside to Double dark siding, been doing this for years, running the tire both forward and backward rotation.
I tried DS and hated it but a narrower tire would have maybe netted better results and I may try it again.
Not running enough tire pressure will cause a tire to loose the bead seat.
BTW; The rim on my car looks the same as on my Honda, I did not do a side by side but by just looking at them they look the same? (I'm not positive about this though)
There are some graphics on Google showing a cutaway of a car rim compared to a motorcycle rim.
I may not have noticed that bead width difference; www.ironbutt.com/premier/2015tires/RimComparison1.JPG
I would like to measure the bead of both tires also...
A motorcycle is designed to lean, if you don't mean to better ride a trike!
The mechanic I go to said he will not inspect a bike with a car tire on.
In my experience. The only way the beed will break lose is winding did have the proper amount of air pressure in the tire .the need on the car tire will mold to the beef of the motorcycle rim . it's rubber not plastic rubber will mold itself to the rim . now with out air pressure it will let go just like most tires . I know this because I've worked with tires for years .
Sorry for the spelling I have big fingers 😆
Dark siding doesn't seem like the way to get rich.
Cruiseman, all of your repair videos I've seen provide excellent, factual info that is easier to follow than the repair manual. However, here you provide nothing factual, and only offer your opinion and here say. You are an influential person in our community, and what you have done here is validate the naysayers, and embolden them to voice their own emotionally charged opinions. Many cite safety, poor handling, and intended design of car v. motorcycle tires, yet they pull trailers. I refer back to page 4 of my 2008's Owner's Manual, under the WARNING of serious injury or death re: trailers & sidecars: "This motorcycle was not designed for those attachments, and their use can seriously impair your motorcycle's handling." Simply put, the naysayers who pull trailers are, "talking out of both sides of their mouths". Further, most have no first hand experience with DS. ***Instead of speculation, I challenge YOU to actually try a car tire for 1000 miles, then come back and give an update based on your experience. Choose any brand, but make sure it is a run flat, size 195/55, and experiment with PSI from 32 up to the max limit of the tire, as printed on the sidewall.
Amen Joe , tell it brother...
Joe, very well stated. I went to a CT for the wear, I found I had more traction in a corner. I never dragged a foot peg with MT on my bike, now it's very easy to do that because the bike feels more stable and it has a softer ride than before.
The shop that I have service my Goldwing refuses to put any car tire on any motorcycle. I agree with their refusal.
I get that.
What differences are there if any on a trike
I install automotive radials on my trikes as it is logical and of course any properly designed trike does not lean. It is not possible for the bead to come loose as mentioned unless there was a incident of total air pressure loss prior to the tire coming off the bead. The standard 16" automotive tire fits the GL1800 rim perfectly and does conform to the bead is well as a MC tire. The guy at wingding was guessing and what he claimed is not possible I can see this happening if one is using a run flat which has lost all pressure. I definitely do not recommend run flats as they are barely suitable for cars much less motorcycles. Insurance will not be affected, insurance companies do not deny coverage for tires unless the are bald with the cords showing perhaps. Double darkside is a goofy term as all that means is running a bias ply (normal) tire on the front, bias ply tires are not car tires they are just common motorcycle tires and are actually better suited for tour bikes than radials due to softer ride and tendency to run cooler.
Double dark!!!!, on my last kumho runflat and running a battlax bt 54 140/70/18 - runs smooth, next will be the bridgestone driveguard and a michelin pilot active 130/70/18 - better grip imho regardless of the naysayers about contact patch. admittedly slow turning maneuvers are more difficult but the curves are not as effected as some would say they are with a CT on the rear. as always - to each his own.
Your right about the bead. Safety issue. Also the tire compound is too hard for good traction. Safety issue. I know 30 Goldwing people who tried the car tire. There were bead, traction problems and two crashes. I will not go dark side.
The rubber compounds are different between a car and motorcycle tire . The motorcycle tire has a firmer compound in the center for better mileage and a softer compound on the sides for gripping the road when leaning, also tread is designed to shed water and heat. If you're riding on twisty roads the car tire will not handle as well as the motorcycle tire case in point, my friend dark sides and we road the tail of the Dragon. I ride a 2010 goldwing and he has a 2014 goldwing. We stopped at the tree of shame and were talking about the ride he said he was having a hard time keeping up with me his bike was wanting to weave. We felt the tires on both bikes and his back tire was much hotter than the front and much hotter than mine, we also checked the air pressure and it was good. On the other hand when we pull trailers on interstate highways and his tire runs cooler and seams track better when winds blow . I guess it depends on what type of riding you do. You could have two wheels, one for dark siding and one for twisties but for me I will stick with what the manufacturer says.
That's the only catastrophe I have ever heard of from a car tire on a motorcycle. There may be others out there but I haven't heard of them. Now having said that I have heard of and seen many catastrophes involving motorcycle tires. I don't run a car tire on my Goldwing but just one incident isn't enough to keep me from doing it if I had a mind to considering the many failures there are involving motorcycle tires. Just a point to ponder.
I have ridden 1,000's of miles darkside on my Victory Vision but decided to go back to a bike tire indefinitely . In my experience, it wasn't dangerous, it was just different , it was less fun in corners and the Vision was designed to corner so, I decided it was better to have more fun than save a few dollars. The car tire two up on the dragon was work not fun.
Thanks for the commentary on that controversial subject. I’m leaning in your direction due to that testimony as well; if motorcycle manufacturers do redesign their rims/wheels to permit car tires, well then we’ll re-examine those objections. (I certainly doubt that’ll ever happen)
Happy trails...👍
This video is so full of misinformation it's laughable. Your credibility tanked on this nonsense. It's your own fault for listening to the wrong people.
For the record. the wheel bead is the same for the GL1800 and Car wheel. I can't post picture proof in the comments. or I would.
m.facebook.com/groups/68154878438?view=permalink&id=10156023320898439
Great points! Thank you for sharing. Saving money isn't always the most important thing.
Wheelers on 129 south of the dragon puts on more tires than anybody in the country. He has had two customers tires come of the rim running a car tire. He refuses to mount a car tire
Wow.
THAT is a very important fact from someone who is in a position to have a large quantity of first-hand data about tires being subjected to regular hard turning! This is one of the most important facts in this discussion!
ill stay with my motorcycle tire E4 the only way to GO safe.good Vid
I would never feel comfortable with a car tire....to each their own...
Whataburger
I really enjoy watching your videos and I respect your experience but I must disagree with you on dark siding. I have put around 3k miles on my car tire and it holds the curves better than the Dunlop and Bridge stones I used to run. Also I question your position because one person claims the bead let go so you will not try it because of that. Well there have been cases where a problem had occurred with a Mt so why would that be any different. I don't mean this as an attack on you as I agree that everyone should do what they are comfortable with. I have been researching this for years and I have been unable to find a single case where an accident occurred for no reason other than the tire on the bike being a car tire. Ride safe and thanks for the videos.
You probably also voted for Trump and thought that was a great move too! lol ..... loved him in reality TV but as a politician, NOT so much ;) have a great day!
@@henryhonda8408 hey this is not the place for politics and I won't disrespect cruizeman by arguing with you here but if you want to come to my fb and message me I will let you know what I think of you and your comment about President Trump. Have a good day.
Hey Cruiseman!!! What wind deflectors are you running under your mirrors in this vid? Thanks
The Honda ones.
I didn't watch your video, which I'm sure was excellent. Speaking only for myself, I will never...(as in NEVER) mount a car tire on any motorcycle that I own for a variety of reasons that have been argued about for years, I'm sure. When I tell my ex-road racing buddies about this phenomena, they normally respond with either stunned silence or expletives interspersed with derogatory comments. I respect any motorcycle rider's right to make their own decisions about what they mount on their motorcycle...even the most critical suspension component which is the tire. However, I also equate it to making a conscious decision to not wear a helmet or safety gear...because the law allows it or it is "too hot" or "too uncomfortable" to wear it. If I were an insurance adjuster or an attorney and I discovered that a car tire was mounted on a motorcycle involved in an accident, I would absolutely use that fact for leverage against the opposite party. Regardless, for those who go to the darkside, I wish them luck...because they will need it, IMHO.