Talk about a 24 hour coincidence, I was just thinking there must be a way to do a simple comparison of miles/kWh to miles/gallon to assess where on the rapid charge network costs the average miles per gallon figure sits. We're on the verge of getting an EV and your channel (as well as a few others) had helped massively in clearly up charging, connectors and all of the associated stuff that goes along with owning and running an EV. Thanks for the great, down to earth, content.
Hey Martin. I swapped (from an already VERY fuel efficient Prius) to an EV early last year and have been delighted with the running costs savings. I'm not (yet) on the very best EV-only tariff so I'm still paying about 16p per kW where I live - even so, charging overnight at home equates to about 4.3p per mile. As an average 12,000 mile per year driver, that's saving me about £1000 per year in 'fuel' alone - and on to that no road tax and lower servicing costs and it really is a 'no-brainer'.
I used one of the Shell charging points the other day. Everything worked perfectly. Contactless as well. But no indication of how much I was being charged at the end of the charge. Nothing at all! Surely that can't be legal.
@@winnie2551 they (we) do not sadly. It's 30p for everyone, no app or anything just contactless only. So I'm thinking I might look at other green electricity options now.. although I do like the fact ecotricity put a lot of investment in mills and other sustainable electricity generation and aren't just a reseller like many others
I think that Ecotricity have bailed out of the electric highway now. I imagine Gridserve will be starting an electricity company, or probably partnering with one, at some point.
I imagine that when tax revenues from petrol and diesel start to reduce as we all go electric then the government will find some way of taxing electric vehicles to compensate. Then the energy price advantage of electric vehicles will soon be removed.
I've been a BP Pulse member since it was Polar and the latest price guide that they sent me has confused me to the extent that I think I'm going to get rid of the card. I just can't be bothered with that level of complexity to deal with, even if it does end up saving me a few quid in the long run.
I've already cancelled mine. The high cost is not justified by them saying it costs a lot to install the infrastructure as they don't charge you any more when they build a new petrol/diesel service station. Charging cost should be a straight x pence per kilowatt hour irrespective of the rate of charge. When the raw cost of electricity is between 15 to 20 per kilowatt hour then a mark up of 50% is ample profit in my opinion at a cost of 30p per kwh max.
@@barriebirch7956 that's because people would simply avoid that petrol station. Which is an option with BP charge master, however BP should be taking a longer term view, another reason why they don't charge more for petrol at a new station is that its a long term investment and they'll make money over time. Look at the way the EV market is heading, BP should be worried that a lot of there expensive petrol stations won't be that viable in say 10 years? Charging companies should be trying to win people over and provide the best experience possible, think about those people that only put BP ultimate or Shell V-power in their cars (they're interested in performance cars which is looking more and more like EVs), if you can capture their hearts and minds they'll probably pay for 150kW charging because its fast/convenient/reliable/premium
Holding onto mine for now. I don’t have charging at home so it is the cheapest rate for me. It looks like podpoint could possibly be cheaper when the subscription gets added. I would guess I’m using 350-400kwh a month. One thing not discussed here is the hold charge some networks put on your card. When I was using electric highway every day it was £12 for each charge then having to wait several days for it to clear. Fine early in the month after payday but it became challenging when I was skint before payday. I like only having one direct debit a month to worry about with BP pulse. I can pull up and charge without worrying about my bank balance.
Tesla cost £0.25/KWh ( or at least so round here in London). So same as podpoint. But so far it’s cost me £0.00 because of the referral program. So, it has its perks.
Varies between 23p to 32p, think it depends on demand at the charger. M4 n/b Fleet with 8 x 150kw chargers is 32p, but Amesbury with 16 x 250kw chargers is 23p.
What I found interesting, was that if you strip out all taxes and duties, based on the Octopus Go tariff and petrol at £1.40 per litre, per kWh, petrol and electricity cost about the same, it's just the tax and the fact electric motors can convert that energy in to motion more efficiently makes EVs cheaper to run.
For a Hyundai petrol versus Hyundai electric the smallest difference in price is £8,000.00 extra for the electric. This must be factored in to motoring costs.
In my region most of the town centre charging points are within car parks demanding £1 an hour to park. These are also generally app driven chargers so that means the need for a smart phone. Tack on a high 36p plus Kwh charge rate and the advantage of the EV over an ICE vehicle drops. The other down points are getting a connection to the app and finding a charging bay that is working and not ICEd.
When you consider that fossil fuel costs have a heavy element of fuel duty (as well as VAT), the cost of the fuel only would be halved to around the 6p/mile. You also have to take into account the original building of the fuel station (including the costs of pumps, storage, the building etc) and ongoing costs (such as staffing, insurance etc), then surely BP cannot justify charging so much extra between the 50kWh and the 150kWh chargers.
Most petrol stations only make profit on in shop sales. They discount the fuel to get people into the shop. The fossil fuel industry is well established. With efficiency and competition in a mature state. As ev charging becomes ubiquitous prices should come down. Once the infrastructure is in, the upkeep is minimal. It’s unlikely the government can tax electricity for vehicles any different than any thing else that uses it. Anyone can buy some solar panels and connect them to a charger. It would be un-policable.
I agree with you I only use a rapid charger as a last resort. That’s one of the reasons why we bought the Kia e Niro the long range the car offers so that I can do 90 % of my charging at home and fast chargers as a top up when away from home
These charges are all before the government want there share. Add road charging on on top of this and it's going to be far more expensive than presently
I agree. The government are losing a huge amount of revenue by us not using petrol/diesel. It's got to come from somewhere. Double all those prices and see how it stacks up.
Great video. Away from home, time is too important. So people will want the fastest possible charging. There is a crossover point but it's a moving target as diesel and petrol prices are a bit volatile and pretty high now. My diesel is at 60MPG so typically 10p per mile (fuel only)
another consideration is that as EV ownership and ICE cars begin to diminish the cost of petrol and diesel will ultimately increase as the volume of sales reduces. conversely, as EV adoption increases and charging infrastructure is expanded there will be more competition and pricing will be more competitive.
I have found your channel looking to see if EV is going to work for me, and I love your channel. Keep up the videos, I will be ordering my EV tomorrow, so I will be going through videos and liking them as I go.
I would understand paying more on a network if: a) There's more of them b) They are maintained well so that you don't have defective charging stations. The more a charging station gets used, yes there's more wear and tear. But that's more profit for the company. There's no point if you have stations that no one use because you are over-priced.
For me it's far more expensive to use an ev I cover 3k miles a year so fuel costs are irrelevant it's the upfront costs of buying an ev that will stop me from doing so for forseeable future
New tech is nearly always more expensive, but as the resale of new ice vehicles falls through the floor paying more for an ev will become the sensible choice for most. For anyone doing very little mileage it will take the longest for it to be cheaper other than taking resale into account
@@kentonian I agree however our car a Skoda Yeti is 4yrs old bought as ex demo 11 500 miles from new fdsh as new paid 15k still worth 15k I would not benefit in the slightest from buying an ev money wise infact it would cost me a fortune to exchange I'm 60 yrs old do very little mileage I could buy an ev tomorrow but dosent make economic sense it's also euro 6 compliant on the used market there's very limited choice in ev's and they are too expensive so for me I'll stick with ice certainly over next 6 to seven yrs
Take into account the reason EV's are being promoted.... Environmental. It's a pretty well known fact that low miles in an EV is far worse for Environment than the ICE equivalent. So 3K a year would never pay back the Co2 used to produce the car. A small car needs to drive around 60/70 K miles to break even on Co2.
@@kentonian the alternate possibility is as governments kill the supply of new fossil fuel vehicles the demand for existing used one goes up and hence the so will their resale value. Its hard to say because other government action like further increasing tax on petrol can change numbers in an instant.
The two prices I've seen for Ionity member schemes sofar require an annual subscriptions, rather than a monthly membership Paying for a full year for a the few weeks of the year where its potentially useful to have would still workout dearer than their 69p rate
I was thinking ,supercharger are more likely to be used on long motorway trips and to compare like for like , wouldn’t it be a better comparison to use average motorway fuel prices which can be about 20p/litre more expensive than elsewhere
@@jeremylister89 I used to avoid petrol stations with particular diesel pumps that would cut off the fuel when the overfilling system was fooled by foaming when the fuel was pumped at full rate. It was right pain in the bum (and very slow) to try to regulate the pumping so that this wouldn't happen
Have dropped my BP Pulse membership about a month ago. With Gridserve & Instavolt updating sites along my regular routes, I'd rather pay more to have a multi-charger destination. I'm also not keen on them charging more for using the 150kW units as my car can't do much over 50kW anyway. (MG ZS EV)
All very interesting thanks for your knowledge. Oh to be able to see a Rapid charger here in the North ! You do not mention that 70% of petrol cost is TAX, worried eventually tax man will spot this and start charging us at roadside chargers (all speeds) to get some tax back. Electricity only has 5% VAT on it currently and a business user can get that back.... convoluted reclaim though. As you point out most people will be charging at £0.15-0.16 at home, or £0.04 on economy 7 rate. Not to mention make your own through PV cells as you do. In WY they are giving the stuff away until Oct21, just pay for parking. So I am getting 45kWh for £0.70 parking. Trying to get all taxis to move to electric by giving free electricity.
PodPoint is even better: the ones located Tesco are free to use (Certainly at York and Clitheroe). I'll go round the corner and charge at the PodPoint rather than the one at home now and again, because it's free. In contrast, the BP/Pulse over at Aldi is their usual price - and *nobody* uses it, as the Tesco PodPoints are only a mile further up the road.
Recent price increases have been from those providers who were previously under-charging VAT at 5%, and are now paying the correct level (20%) to HMRC - so they're not really price increases at all.
Can’t help thinking you can buy an awful lot of petrol/diesel with the money you’d have saved buying the equivalent ice car before reach the cost of the ev.
Back when I looked at Prius v PlugIn Prius(PiP) I did the sums. Assuming 100% of mileage in PiP was on electric AND electricity was free, it would take 10yrs of 100k miles to break even on the purchase price difference. Ouch.
@@richardlloyd2589 But were you looking at the Prius to save money on operating costs or to reduce your carbon emissions. EV's are not like the petrol v diesel argument. Also as fuel and duty prices increase I would bet that EV charging will also increase at a competitive rate regardless of cost to source electricity.
@@Yorkie-UK Screw carbon emissions a bloody fallacy perpetuated by the climate Nazis. Its cost per mile/km that matter. Let India China Russia and the USA save the planet. Oh and we better chuck in Brazil and Argentina too. Sorry but the carbon bollocks just pisses me off.
@@wideyxyz2271 Then an EV is not for you. I am not an environmentalist by any means but I do a high number of miles for business every year. It is worth me looking into switching to lower my carbon footprint as the change is coming by law and videos like this are good tool to understanding some of the operating costs but they are not the total proof as to why you would switch.
Really, we should be comparing average price of motorway service station petrol/diesel to rapids shouldn't we? And average local petrol/diesel to home charging costs? Great overview though - helps me pick which networks to aim for! :-)
@@ElectricVehicleMan certainly the only time I ever use rapid is on a motorway, but probably fewer people use motorway services for Dino juice than electrons.(just because of range differences)
@@Hyfly13 But on the flip side I have only once in 25 years worth of driving put fuel in on the motorway services. So pretty irrelevant. I'm the kind of person this video is for. I want to go electric. I don't have a drive and park on the road at work. I don't have a large family to charge for hours at a cheap rate at Tesco. I would rapid charge my car all the time. Time costs money. The average was about 9p per mile. On average mileage of 7900 that will be a saving of around £5 a week. For me it will be about £7.50 a week. Sadly it's just not worth the saving Vs time taken.
In France we also get E85 fuel (ethanol) it costs about 0.64€ per litre (less than half a litre of petrol) it's a bargain. Also don't forget that if you use your EV on the motorway, you most likely left home with a full charge that cost only a fraction of the cost of a rapid charger so that needs to be taken into consideration with the price/mile
As a non EV owner, but interested in getting one as a next car, the variation and multiple ways of paying seems totally unjustifiable. This is a barrier to adoption. Needs to be as easy and 'flat rate' as buying petrol. Thanks for the breakdown though. Really interesting!
I hate spending 5mins a month filling up my car at the petrol stn, how much of my life will I lose cos I don't "live in an ivory tower"? AND, how much longer will a long journey take?
I think that's a good summary, even for Rapid only charging it shows you have to really try hard to make an EV to be more expensive than an ICE. For me I'm hoping as the number of charging locations increase a bit more competition (especially if Gridserve keep prices at the same level) it will start to force the shell/instavolt/Ionity prices down a bit to keep customers.
I am getting 30 mpg or 40 mpg on a run from my SLK. I used to average about 3.5 miles per kWh in a Zoe, basically free because a lot of 22 kw chargers are free. I don't do many miles so not an issue but if I did an EV the only way to go.
I must admit I was a bit surprised at the 'average' 50mpg figure. We are comparing cars on long journeys mostly at motorway speeds, 50 sounds a bit on the optimistic side. Sounds more like an average for very small cars or hybrids. The 'average' car is probably closer to 40 on such journeys.
I wonder why these members only clubs are allowed by governments. This bs doesnt happen at the petrol forecourt. I have never heard of a membership to a petrol forecourt which significantly cheapens the petrol or diesel. Why the f#€k do we accept that this and the lack of normal chip and pin was acceptable. Its bloodly ludicrous, no wonder its taken so long for the gen populous to get on board with evs.
I think you're being very kind to the petrol/deisel cars as per MPG. I have a 1 litre petrol car that advertises itself as getting 50 MPG but the best I've ever achieved is 40. My previous car was a deisel 1.4l that said I coud get 70mpg and I never achieved better than 45.
When they test the cars prior to claiming these MPG figures Brian, they do it on a test rig. There is no headwind, nor any hills or gradients........ Real world driving conditions knocks it down considerably. But you already knew that.....
I personally think its reflective of both our diesel cars - 1.4 fiesta and 1.5 Nissan qashqai. 50 and 52mog respectively. Granted it's just school runs these days, as we both wfh now
many diesel car say they get more miles than they really get. some people on some types of trips may get good mpg. but really when only looking a fuel cost then it does miss out on other factors that add more cost to a petrol or diesel car mileage costs
@@davidsworld5837 I'm sure you're right, I'm only reading off the on-board computer readings and marrying that up with how much we spend pm on fuel. Sadly despite me being a fan of the EV concept (and being in a detached house with driveway / garage) it simply doesn't add up if I wanted to convert to an equivalently spec'd EV based SUV to replace our main car. Whilst id save money by self charging (let's say id save £50pm) that is undermined by loan repayments increasing x 2.5 or 3 times, and insurance always taking a hike upwards. Yes ppl talk about reduction in service costs, wear 'n tear etc, but it comes nowhere close to helping justifying the increased expense. Excited to see what the next 4-5 years bring, and I really like my next vehicle to be EV based ;)
I have cancelled my BP pulse subscription due to the increase in charging cost per kilowatt hour. The excuse that the increase is to pay for the expensive infrastucture is ridiculous. Does one pay extra for buying fuel at a new petrol station? I don't think so. Do you pay more for a car that is produced at a newly built factory? No, you don't. As regards profit margins; if a litre of petrol sold gives a net profit of 10p then this equates to selling an equivalent 3 kilowatt hours being a profit of 3.3p per kwh. So theoretically they should charge only 3.3p over the grid cost per kwh. i.e. about 25p max. ( 1 litre of fuel gives about 11 miles. 11 miles in an EV uses about 3kwh electricity). However the law of supply and demand will eventually even out and reduce the extortionate cost that some charging providers are currently charging. An even more ridiculous system found in France is charging according to the minute. Here you are paying a differentially increasing cost per kwh as the longer you charge the less kwh you are putting in per minute as the charge rate falls as you approach 100% not to mention, of course, any fault of the charging post in delivering the charge much slower.
We need to factor in the charging time compared to the petrol fill time for going on a long journey. I can fill 1 litre in 3 seconds, or 13.5 seconds per gallon which gives me 50 miles. This equals 0.27 seconds fill time per mile. What is the equivalent charge time in seconds per mile? I have seen an advert for 100 miles worth of charge in 30 minutes using an ultra fast point; that is 18 seconds per mile, or 60 times slower. This implies that for a motorway service station to be able to charge the same number of electric vehicles per hour as it can currently supply with fuel, it would need to have 60 charge points for each existing fuel pump. Your comments please?
You forgot to mention evengie they are free until the end of September 2021. 50kw CCS & Chademo plus 7 kw socket. Bradford have 50 installed from Crosshills to Leeds boundary. Brighouse have two in separate carparks and you get 1 HR free parking. 14 X pod chargers at 7KW, free at Clayton road shopping centre. They also have 4 X Instavolt great to use was 35p but now to expensive at 40 pence per KW Great channel mate watched all your vids
If you do low mileage there will never be any point going electric (other than still having a habitable planet to live on... ). That is, until the cost ratios change dramatically (petrol at £10/l, all the petrol stations close, etc etc ....)
@@andymccabe6712 I don't disagree that electric is the way to go - but range is an issue - if you do long journeys its all the extra time of filling up. Electric vehicles are currently over priced. Additionally where is this electricity coming from (at the moment its from burning fossil fuels) so the environmental point is not yet correct - and hopefully will be soon. We were lied to about oil v coal (oil seen to be cleaner) then diesel v petrol. I think what will flip the equation will be (1) better ranges (2) much better recharge networks (3) much faster charging times (including domestic) (4) lower acquisition cost (very similar if not cheaper than internal combustion engines) - the tech in not new (milkfloats had electric motors in the 50's) and (5) Carbon levy - e.g. much higher carbon fuel costs. My next car will be electric - but I doubt that will happen soon.
I sat down and did similar sums 22 months ago before buying an Ioniq. The 2.0 diesel was costing 17p per mile in fuel. 40k miles later the Ioniq is averaging 3p per mile. Most charging is done overnight at home supplemented by free charging at shopping centres plus an average of one rapid charge a week. I usually change cars after 100k it'll be interesting to see the value of this one at that point, the battery warranty is 100k but so far there is zero battery degradation. On a side note I've been on Octopus Agile since Jan and the prices haven't come down as I expected when the weather warmed up. Any ideas as to why electricity prices aren't cheaper?
Hyundai Motor Group have a stake in Ionity but if I tried to use a KiaCharge card to pay for an Ionity charge it would still cost me 70p per kWh so not all "club" members get preferential rates
I think I'd be okay with charging different prices for different charge rates but it shouldn't be an automatically higher cost for turning up at a faster charger. It should just be an option when you plug in. Do you want standard 50kw charging at this price or since charger and car have had a chat and figured out 100kw is possible do you want that for this much more money? You'll save 15 minutes on a charge to 80%, you know you want it...
For info: 1 litre of petrol is the equivalent to 9.1kWhrs of electrical power. Combustion engines (modern ones) are generally better than 40% efficient so only 3.64 of those 9.1kWhrs are used to propel you down the road. Modern cars consume fuel at circa 1ltre every 10 miles (about your figure of 50mpg) or better. It’s the equivalent of around .364 kWhrs/mile. If we could improve combustion engine efficiency to sixty percent then as well as cost to run being cheaper, the combustion engine would be greener than electric vehicles on whole life costs (and thats all that matters).
The BP Pulse 50/150 is like Premium or Regular octane petrol - you pay (a bit) more for the higher quality stuff and that's fair enough. But if a fuel station only has one type available, you might choose to go elsewhere. The issue, as with petrol, whether a driver knows the relevance of each and whether the choice to go elsewhere actually exists in that area! AND on the difference in the price between the two!
I think I will stick with my hybrid as I am getting 76 MPG as I don’t fancy waiting at chargers for the vehicle to charge. A very interesting video and I love the information on different rates from different charging companies. I do think it is a rip off with them charging more than the basic rate per kWh which the supply companies charge. If I wanted to sell electricity to someone I am not allowed to. So why are these charging companies being allowed to charge way in excess of the basic KWH charge
FYI I brought an EV after comming to your channel.....then the headaches started after getting an EV..different charge points cables 10000 cards...but thanks to your advice all is good 👍
How many of those networks offer rapid AC? Apparently the new Gridserve points don't have AC on them at the moment (but they are supposed to be installing separate rapid AC points at some point in the future).
@@ElectricVehicleMan Sure it's not 150kW, but if you take away AC rapid and don't replace it, you turn thousands of Zoes into local cars only. Given AC rapid is also massively cheaper to install than any DC charger, this seems shortsighted.
Also couldn't get the last two i tried to work via app or contactless. Nobody answered the phone and the helpline just hangs up after 20 mins. Then I had to get them to manually refund the connection fees as the system is too thick to successfully void fees when no energy is delivered.
Interested in making the switch to an EV but still feeling like Tesla is the best option and not only due to the charging network but one of the factors. Enjoy your videos, really interesting content, thank you.
Note that for company car drivers the HMRC advisory fuel rate is 4p/mile.That's the most your company can reimburse for business use. Anything above that is taxable income. Whatever it costs to charge up, anything over 4p/mile will come out of your own pocket. Not good for sales reps or service engineers that cannot get through the day without charging away from home.
In other words use your EV ONLY for commuting provided you can recharge at home and if you want to drive any further get a cheap second-hand gas car just for that purpose (long journey) and forget about travelling far in your EV as it's not cost and time effective. I'm astonished Ionity can dare to charge that much - avoid like fire. Even all those other networks are not competitive at all and should only be used in emergencies. Hope potential EV buyers will see the light. Thanks EV Man for making it so clear.
Petrol & diesel, you turn up at any garage, fill up in five minutes and pay with your debit card, EASY. EV charging has far too many hurdles or drawbacks and is reliant on you having pre registered with charging companies, putting numerous Apps on your mobile and if you break your phone, lose it or forget to take it with you then you ain’t going anywhere. Paying to charge an EV must be made quicker and a lot easier.
The clue for the BP Pulse pricing policy might be in the ‘BP’ part of the name. However what is the average % of time/charge that, those who usually charge at home, use a rapid charger. Probably a very broad range but generally not much so the cost per mile is still a lot less than petrol/diesel.
It's a business. Would you expect an electricity supplier to give you it for free? Of course buying electricity from a supplier for your car is going to be more expensive than at home
I am an old person but I can still manage basic arithmetic... I do about 5,000 miles per year in my 2016 Suzuki Celerio. Conservatively driven, over all conditions, it averages 72 mpg (typically 75 on the trip computer), so about 16 miles/litre. I have a Jet station around the corner & they're always cheap (currently £1.26 per litre for unleaded). So my aggregate fuel cost is 7.88p per mile; comparable to your typical 9p per mile EV number. However my car cost £7,000 new. Let's say it does 50,000 miles over 10 years at which point it's fully depreciated, so 14p per mile. Now the absolute cheapest EV I can find is a nearly new, low mileage MG ZS for £17.5k, so over 10 years that's 35 pence per mile. Neither car attracts road tax so the overall comparison is 21.88 p per mile (ICE) vs 44p per mile (EV). You just can't 'forget' the humongous cost of EVs when deciding to go green. I for one can't make the economic argument work...
There is so little saving in ev driving it hardly helps you much unless you are charging at home overnight. My little picanto does around 50mpg and takes 5 mins to fill up. The problem is when I have looked at buying an ev the purchase prices are just stupid. 30k on average. My other car is a dacia which was 16k new. That takes needs to be added to the cost of the electric. I went on a trip with a ev owner the trip took us an hour longer due to charging for 45mins. Just not enough chargers I think the governments targets of no more petrol or diesel cars is just pie in the sky. If only I could get an ev that does 250miles for a reasonable price.
Lucky for you, Dacia appear to be making an electric car for a lower price. According to the ev-database, it's future is uncertain right now, but the price for range for vehicle size looks compelling. ev-database.uk/car/1319/Dacia-Spring-Electric
I've got an I3 rex and did my first long journey when I did the maths using the rex and Instavolt at 35.p KWH I'm not convinced it wouldn't have been cheaper in my CT200h hybrid. Thankfully its the first time I've had to use the rex and most of the time the car is a pure EV charging at home on the cheap
It may be cheaper at the moment to charge at home but has anyone noticed that our lovely foreign owned utility companies have increased their residential charges by 40% this year. At that rate we will be paying 50p a Kw within 4 years. In addition it is not just a charging cost you need to factor in there is also the cost of replacing the batteries.
I agree with faster charges having a higher price so people try and choose what suits either journey, car and pocket but it should be done by lowering the price of the 50kw chargers. So price increases should not affect 50kw only 150kw+. If you can afford a car that charges at 100kw+ you will pay the extra.
The hope is eventually a company comes along and simplifies the whole thing where you just tap your phone or your card and your charges a flat rate and you don’t need to sign up at all, “just pay”
On the BP pulse example with a Zoe that's only capable of receiving 50kW of power arriving at a 150kW capable charger, where it costs the customer more while only getting the 50kW their car is capable of. I feel that we're faced with the same issue we had with PHEVs in the early days, where we would prefer to incentive the use of a charger that closer matches the vehicles capability, so that the faster charger can be used to it's maximum potential by other customers with the full (or in excess of) the charger's 150kW supply.
As you said below, you only pay for the charge delivered to your battery. But the fastest chargers require their cables to be water cooled. One can only assume that heat is generated by electricity you are actually not paying for. The cooling will also cost to run, so I can see a case for a higher price at the really speedy chargers vs the slow ones. As a PHEV owner minimum charges per charging session, connection charges or parking fees if you leave your car whilst charging while there is ample free parking close by the charger, many times renders public charging more expensive compared to just continuing to drive on petrol. That "evil" option is always available in a PHEV. Living in Scotland I decided the public charging network wasn't built out enough for our household to dare to go down from two ICE cars to just one pure EV. Whilst I prefer how a pure EV is driving our PHEV does all our daily driving on electricity so we wouldn't save any more petrol by having gone pure EV. Having many times tried to use the public network to charge whilst away has really opened my eyes to how unreliable it really is. Several times all charging spaces are already occupied, the unoccupied ones are showing as broken or won't start the charge for one way or another when connecting... PHEVs aren't "evil" if you keep them charged. If only it was easier to keep them charged when away from home at a reasonable price/kWh.
My closet charge point is source who say they charge a discounted rate of 0.27p (£4 per month) if you have a permit for the borough. Petrol is about £1.60 per litre I get an average of 42mpg and do an average of 90miles a day for work. I can’t charge an ev from home. 🤔
Saying about Charge Place Scotland, some councils like Falkirk in there wisdom have put in a blanket price of 25p pkwh for everything from 7kw fast charger to 50kw Rapids. When in comparison East Lothian have 16p pkwh for fast and 30p pkwh for Rapid, but atleast it's not as bad as Fife's pricing. I feel that the council's are going to learn a hard lesson as all the other networks move in, but on the plus side the CPS replacement service offer multiple tariffs to be applied by the council's, so we could see on and off peak pricing.
Interestingly, the Morrisons near me has just dropped in a GeniePoint with a 22kw Charger Socket, a 50kw ChaDeMo Plug and a 50 kw CCS Plug. All are listed as 35p / kwh (with a £10 overstay fee after 3hrs on 22kw Charger / 90 mins on ChaDeMo or CCS)... Does make me wonder which I would use, if I didn't have a home charger...
What is your reason for not including Tesla Super Charger’s cost in your schedule? As for the complex charging structure of BP etc, I suspect people will vote with their feet and that should cause them to re-thing their strategy. Hoping that Kempower chargers will grow rapidly ASAP in the UK.
A) I go to the filling station B) The price per litre is clearly displayed C) I fill the tank and pay. Total time 4 minutes. This video ensures that any thoughts I might have harboured about getting an EV are now dead in the water until the retail cost of charging begins to look at least slightly sane
Hey Bill. In reality, though - admittedly, as long as you have the benefit of off-street parking at home or at work - about 99% of charging an EV happens when the car's sat on your driveway / in your work's car park. At 16p per kW, I'm not (yet) on the cheapest of EV-only tariffs, but even then it equates to only about 4p per mile to 'fuel' my EV, saving me about £1000 per year on the 12,000 miles I cover. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use a rapid charger over the last year, so the numbers in this video are largely irrelevant.
thanks again for the break down, as i understand things charge place scotland are free, as it scotish goverment(tax payer funded) but local authortys can charge a fee to run the network in there control, to off set the cost of prividing the network.
I run a 1.6 td Skoda Karoq suv. 2018 model. As at 12th December Diesel is £6.50 a gallon. Average mileage is 55mpg on regular round trips of ninety motorway miles. The same cost as electric, 12p a mile. Actually managed 64.8mpg by keeping to 55mph the other day. The government bean counters know this so expect even more tax on proper fuel.
Partly true but the faster they charge the harder it is for them to get the electrons in at the required speed so there are big costs involved, bigger power lines (higher unit prices from energy suppliers), battery supplementing and, of course, the chargers themselves are more expensive to make. That is all partly offset by getting through more customers but that depends on there being an unlimited supply of customers waiting which isn't true (yet) in most places.
It's in their interest as well to have a faster charge rate, then they can sell more energy per day from the same charger, needing less chargers for the same potential revenue.
@@andyjdhurley "but the faster they charge the harder it is for them to get the electrons in at the required speed" which actually has nothing to do with the charger, everything to do with the battery tech. "and, of course, the chargers themselves are more expensive to make" there really isn't any "of course" about it. The controller/software is going to be absolutely identical. Cabling might be a bit more expensive, but it's also going to be far more reliable because it is only going to run at peak capacity for those EVs that can take the full charge rate. The rest of the time, it'll be running at below capacity and therefore far, far less stressed.
So the next question, as you touched on, is what is the most you would be willing to pay to use public chargers? As the prices of EVs (generally) are reaching parity with equivalent non EVs (both bought new), the cost of fuelling them is rising. So if you want to own an EV but cannot charge at home, are they still worth it? In my case, having owned (3yr purchase agreements) two EVs previously, I had to revert back to a non EV in order to be abled to move from UK to SW France, where there are far fewer public chargers and greater distances between destinations. That was the right choice to make. So as well as cost to charge, there’s STILL, after a decade of EVs, few places to charge them here. They’re normally blocked by other drivers not (yet) realising what they are …. Approx 750miles from here to Calais and then whatever in UK, so let’s say two charges in France, meaning two 45min to 1hr stops, if the chargers are unoccupied…. So charging may well be cheaper (you can do the maths for my journey) but unless I buy a Tesla, adding 2hrs to the journey for charging is far more of an issue than the cost and availability of diesel and my diesel can average well over 50mpg. Just saying.
Some 22 kW chargers give you 15 minutes to confirm charging, via your app. That's 15 minutes of free electricity, and worthwhile, if your car can take 3-phase electricity. Some suppliers also have a connection fee of £1 to £1.50, depending upon payment method, even if you have to abort the charge.
How many of each rapid charge stations are there and where are they is also something you must consider in this calculation....I can get diesel from any station country wide
Ref, increased cost for kW rate; these sites were likely more expensive to install over standard 50kW sites. The reason being that more capacity is made available to these sites in order to provide this faster charging. This will very likely have required significant 11kV network reinforcement, and possibly 33kV/132kV. Part of this reinforcement cost would be passed to the owner of these sites.
@@ElectricVehicleMan I suppose it depends on where they are looking to recover their costs from, what public funds are made available to them, and what timeframe they are looking for each unit to become profitable.
Got to remember that in the UK the overwhelming part of the cost of the fuel to the consumer is fuel duty. Which only underlines the point that prices are set at what people will pay not at production and distribution costs. Supply side economics (prices set at cost of production) often proves to be irrelevant. Demand side economics (prices set at what people will pay at the target volumes by the product/service provider) is what makes comparisons like these kind of non-topics.
This was insightful, I don't own an EV, but it gives an idea of what to expect, like some others have mentioned a Tesla pricing would be good to give a comparison, I know they give you it free for a year or something, but Tesla are known for doing it right with regards to charging coverage and speeds so would be good to see how the public variant stacks up. Now all I need to know is how to buy a Model S Plaid on a bus drivers wage.
@@andymccabe6712 just the same as every other car on the road that does over 70mph, on a track, there's a popular race track very near me. There's millions of cars on the road that can do over 100mph, even my wifes 1.2 eco Fiesta can, the only public place in the world to go over 70 is the autobahn, yet companies constantly sell cars with double the national speed limits and up, but i would love a Model S Plaid, just the same as a Shelby GT500 or even a classic Cortina MK3 with either a V8 or as an EV, maybe a Sierra Sapphire Cosworth or a classic VW camper, I would love to own any because I love the look and to own would be amazing, doesn't mean I want to do their top speed though.
There is the "Cost" of using contactless payment when charging to consider. By cost, I mean the charge on your card (let's call it a payment to avoid confusion) before you start charging which iirc is £15 or so (some take considerably more). This payment is sidelined by your card provider until the the final cost of charging is calculated. You. Are unable to access these funds until the transaction is completed. The charging cost is then deducted from the £15 payment and the remainder is returned for your use. The actual timeframe for this transaction could be upto a week depending on certain factors. So you have no access to a high percentage of that payment for quite a long time after you have charged your car. If a charge fails at any point and you have to restart, that's another payment sidelined from you account. Starts to get expensive, doesn't it? I'm all for EV's but this practice has to be binned. When petrol stations use contactless, the card holder is pre-approved for a certain amount and at the end of fueling only what is actually owed is charged to the card.
Once the switch has been made( from hydrocarbon to electric) the prices will rise to compensate for the loss of taxes. Better enjoy it while it lasts. My Outlander is right in the sweet spot( right now). It was reasonably priced ( £10k for a 45k mile car) and it's 25 mile real world range is just enough for 18 out of 20 car journeys to be 100% electric, WITHOUT any range anxiety..... would love to be able to afford a model X though! But not on my income!
Yes, given that the existing VAT rate for all electric supplies is 5%, compared with excise duty per unit volume (litres) plus 20% VAT on top, plus VAT on the retail price part of it for fuel, there is a substantial profit margin for those selling it at prices that look like the equivalent amount of usable energy - such as BP. Not much of it going into the treasury (yet).You can do some rough sums based on petrol being about 9.5 kWh thermal, and engine efficiency around 33% etc, and work out where the cash is going each way.
Our local chargepoint is Ionity, where it's situated, it's in a car park and the car park charges a minimum of an hour, I believe it's £5 an hour plus charging fees, my ultra economical Smart diesel is cheaper to run, if I could afford to buy and own an electric vehicle I would, to be cheaper I'd need to have a home chargepoint which sadly I can't have. It's a shame because there's some good electric vehicles out there now, I'd have to have a bigger car than I need to get a half decent range for my daily commute, then the lack of infrastructure lets it down, it's expensive and for someone like me who works long hours, it's also unavailable as the car park closes at night
Would you say that a PHEV diesel like a Mercedes E300de or the new Mercedes C300e with massive electric range (for a PHEV) would be the best of both worlds? You can charge at home for local trips and then have the freedom of any fuel station be queuing at rapid/fast chargers when doing long journeys a few times a year? I like to hear your thoughts on that.
I would've also thought with BP Pulse, it's not actually economic for them to charge more for the fast charger anyway? I assume that a fast charger can charge a car up faster than a slower one? So, in the time it takes a 50KwH charger to charge 1 car up, the 150KwH charger could have done three? And then when you add in that cars charge slower as they get close to fully charged, you've got the 'slow' charger charging less for a longer time than the fast one?
Depends on the specific car as the batteries can only take so much until they get too hot. Until recently, almost all cars could only charge up to 50kW (and the charge rate slows down as the battery gets near full, noticeably from say 85%). Several of the cars launched in 2020 take 100kW or so, and 150kW is what some of the high-end cars will do (e.g. the Porsche, which could take 350kW if there were chargers at that power).
Another good vid thanks! You'd used "averages" maybe using the mode rather than mean for ICE cars would have altered your numbers? EVs will always be cheaper to run. Also, do you think that market forces will play a greater part in these equations once 40% of the public own an EV? I see no reason why charging an EV should be no different than looking at the price on a display board and if you're happy with the cost, charging up, just as we do with Diesel & Petrol, once the majority of public are EV users. I'm convinced that what we will see is a price drop of ICE cars (as dealers hurry to sell them) with a huge increase in Diesel and Petrol prices. Get ready for £2.00+/litre. Even though I don't yet own an EV, I welcome this transition.
It's starting to get that way now, you decide what your convenient chargers are and how much you will use them to decide how much to pay. My local preference has shifted from Polar/BP Pulse, to Osprey due to convenience.
get ready for £2.00, and the cost of charging EV will respectively based on the model shown 18p pkwh. i know my van costs me avg 2 fill ups a month £120.00, insurance £250, Service & Mot £300.00, you know that Diesel make sense still at the moment.
Lucky enough to still be taking the free CPC juice for now. Once it goes the way of the others, I'll get the home charger installed. But until then... free electrons 😁
I think you need to make a new one for 2022 as prices for electricity as they are gonna rocket British Gas on the EV tariff are looking at charging 0.15 Kw up from 0.5.KW
Talk about a 24 hour coincidence, I was just thinking there must be a way to do a simple comparison of miles/kWh to miles/gallon to assess where on the rapid charge network costs the average miles per gallon figure sits. We're on the verge of getting an EV and your channel (as well as a few others) had helped massively in clearly up charging, connectors and all of the associated stuff that goes along with owning and running an EV. Thanks for the great, down to earth, content.
Hey Martin.
I swapped (from an already VERY fuel efficient Prius) to an EV early last year and have been delighted with the running costs savings.
I'm not (yet) on the very best EV-only tariff so I'm still paying about 16p per kW where I live - even so, charging overnight at home equates to about 4.3p per mile.
As an average 12,000 mile per year driver, that's saving me about £1000 per year in 'fuel' alone - and on to that no road tax and lower servicing costs and it really is a 'no-brainer'.
I used one of the Shell charging points the other day. Everything worked perfectly. Contactless as well. But no indication of how much I was being charged at the end of the charge. Nothing at all! Surely that can't be legal.
Used one of the new Gridserve Ecotricity pumps yesterday, plugged in, tapped the contactless point and it just worked, incredible
Excellent, do you know whether ecotricity customers still get a discount? Glad they are pulling their socks up!
@@winnie2551 they (we) do not sadly. It's 30p for everyone, no app or anything just contactless only. So I'm thinking I might look at other green electricity options now.. although I do like the fact ecotricity put a lot of investment in mills and other sustainable electricity generation and aren't just a reseller like many others
We are truly living in the 20th century!
Had the same experience on Tuesday. 100 kW too.
I think that Ecotricity have bailed out of the electric highway now. I imagine Gridserve will be starting an electricity company, or probably partnering with one, at some point.
So a combustion engined vehicle would cost 4p a mile if petrol and diesel were taxed at the same rate as electricity.
I imagine that when tax revenues from petrol and diesel start to reduce as we all go electric then the government will find some way of taxing electric vehicles to compensate. Then the energy price advantage of electric vehicles will soon be removed.
I've been a BP Pulse member since it was Polar and the latest price guide that they sent me has confused me to the extent that I think I'm going to get rid of the card. I just can't be bothered with that level of complexity to deal with, even if it does end up saving me a few quid in the long run.
We are about to ditch the card too it used to be the only option on a lot of journeys but not the case any more.
Same, think I'm going to cancel too!
I've already cancelled mine. The high cost is not justified by them saying it costs a lot to install the infrastructure as they don't charge you any more when they build a new petrol/diesel service station. Charging cost should be a straight x pence per kilowatt hour irrespective of the rate of charge. When the raw cost of electricity is between 15 to 20 per kilowatt hour then a mark up of 50% is ample profit in my opinion at a cost of 30p per kwh max.
@@barriebirch7956 that's because people would simply avoid that petrol station. Which is an option with BP charge master, however BP should be taking a longer term view, another reason why they don't charge more for petrol at a new station is that its a long term investment and they'll make money over time. Look at the way the EV market is heading, BP should be worried that a lot of there expensive petrol stations won't be that viable in say 10 years? Charging companies should be trying to win people over and provide the best experience possible, think about those people that only put BP ultimate or Shell V-power in their cars (they're interested in performance cars which is looking more and more like EVs), if you can capture their hearts and minds they'll probably pay for 150kW charging because its fast/convenient/reliable/premium
Holding onto mine for now. I don’t have charging at home so it is the cheapest rate for me. It looks like podpoint could possibly be cheaper when the subscription gets added. I would guess I’m using 350-400kwh a month.
One thing not discussed here is the hold charge some networks put on your card. When I was using electric highway every day it was £12 for each charge then having to wait several days for it to clear. Fine early in the month after payday but it became challenging when I was skint before payday.
I like only having one direct debit a month to worry about with BP pulse. I can pull up and charge without worrying about my bank balance.
No Tesla supercharger on the list? I understand it’s a locked network but would have been nice to see where it fit.
Tesla cost £0.25/KWh ( or at least so round here in London). So same as podpoint. But so far it’s cost me £0.00 because of the referral program. So, it has its perks.
Varies between 23p to 32p, think it depends on demand at the charger. M4 n/b Fleet with 8 x 150kw chargers is 32p, but Amesbury with 16 x 250kw chargers is 23p.
Explanation: BP are taking the piss
The government are going to have to get the billions presently raised in fuel duty and road tax back somehow.
What I found interesting, was that if you strip out all taxes and duties, based on the Octopus Go tariff and petrol at £1.40 per litre, per kWh, petrol and electricity cost about the same, it's just the tax and the fact electric motors can convert that energy in to motion more efficiently makes EVs cheaper to run.
For a Hyundai petrol versus Hyundai electric the smallest difference in price is £8,000.00 extra for the electric. This must be factored in to motoring costs.
So must resale value, annual tax, maintenance costs.
But also factor in that generally ev are nice to be in and around(no noise and air pollution)
Also you need to factor in how you are purchasing the vehicle and BIK tax
Gotta love the white board, another cracking video. Thanks for working out the approximate price parity.
In my region most of the town centre charging points are within car parks demanding £1 an hour to park. These are also generally app driven chargers so that means the need for a smart phone. Tack on a high 36p plus Kwh charge rate and the advantage of the EV over an ICE vehicle drops. The other down points are getting a connection to the app and finding a charging bay that is working and not ICEd.
When you consider that fossil fuel costs have a heavy element of fuel duty (as well as VAT), the cost of the fuel only would be halved to around the 6p/mile. You also have to take into account the original building of the fuel station (including the costs of pumps, storage, the building etc) and ongoing costs (such as staffing, insurance etc), then surely BP cannot justify charging so much extra between the 50kWh and the 150kWh chargers.
Most petrol stations only make profit on in shop sales. They discount the fuel to get people into the shop.
The fossil fuel industry is well established. With efficiency and competition in a mature state. As ev charging becomes ubiquitous prices should come down. Once the infrastructure is in, the upkeep is minimal.
It’s unlikely the government can tax electricity for vehicles any different than any thing else that uses it. Anyone can buy some solar panels and connect them to a charger. It would be un-policable.
I agree with you I only use a rapid charger as a last resort. That’s one of the reasons why we bought the Kia e Niro the long range the car offers so that I can do 90 % of my charging at home and fast chargers as a top up when away from home
These charges are all before the government want there share.
Add road charging on on top of this and it's going to be far more expensive than presently
I doubt it, as the network balloons competition will bring prices down. At the moment many of them are trying to recoup buildout costs.
I agree. The government are losing a huge amount of revenue by us not using petrol/diesel. It's got to come from somewhere. Double all those prices and see how it stacks up.
Great video.
Away from home, time is too important. So people will want the fastest possible charging.
There is a crossover point but it's a moving target as diesel and petrol prices are a bit volatile and pretty high now.
My diesel is at 60MPG so typically 10p per mile (fuel only)
another consideration is that as EV ownership and ICE cars begin to diminish the cost of petrol and diesel will ultimately increase as the volume of sales reduces.
conversely, as EV adoption increases and charging infrastructure is expanded there will be more competition and pricing will be more competitive.
Many thanks for time spent and your work done in providing excellent information.
I have found your channel looking to see if EV is going to work for me, and I love your channel. Keep up the videos, I will be ordering my EV tomorrow, so I will be going through videos and liking them as I go.
I would understand paying more on a network if: a) There's more of them b) They are maintained well so that you don't have defective charging stations. The more a charging station gets used, yes there's more wear and tear. But that's more profit for the company. There's no point if you have stations that no one use because you are over-priced.
What 'wear & tear' is there on a couple of wires and a low end pc in a steel box?
@@willswomble7274 repeated flexing on the cables, dropping the connector, heat damage
For me it's far more expensive to use an ev I cover 3k miles a year so fuel costs are irrelevant it's the upfront costs of buying an ev that will stop me from doing so for forseeable future
New tech is nearly always more expensive, but as the resale of new ice vehicles falls through the floor paying more for an ev will become the sensible choice for most. For anyone doing very little mileage it will take the longest for it to be cheaper other than taking resale into account
@@kentonian I agree however our car a Skoda Yeti is 4yrs old bought as ex demo 11 500 miles from new fdsh as new paid 15k still worth 15k I would not benefit in the slightest from buying an ev money wise infact it would cost me a fortune to exchange I'm 60 yrs old do very little mileage I could buy an ev tomorrow but dosent make economic sense it's also euro 6 compliant on the used market there's very limited choice in ev's and they are too expensive so for me I'll stick with ice certainly over next 6 to seven yrs
Take into account the reason EV's are being promoted.... Environmental.
It's a pretty well known fact that low miles in an EV is far worse for Environment than the ICE equivalent.
So 3K a year would never pay back the Co2 used to produce the car.
A small car needs to drive around 60/70 K miles to break even on Co2.
@@kletops46 I agree that's one of reasons I'll keep my ice
@@kentonian the alternate possibility is as governments kill the supply of new fossil fuel vehicles the demand for existing used one goes up and hence the so will their resale value. Its hard to say because other government action like further increasing tax on petrol can change numbers in an instant.
The two prices I've seen for Ionity member schemes sofar require an annual subscriptions, rather than a monthly membership
Paying for a full year for a the few weeks of the year where its potentially useful to have would still workout dearer than their 69p rate
Untill they sort this mess out it will be a drag on adoption of EV’s.
Don’t see why. Petrol stations aren’t the same price as each other are they? BP needlessly complex but it’s not the norm.
@@peterbrown6453 And Petrol stations often have different types of fuel, eg Shell FuelSave and Shell VPower for both petrol and diesel
I was thinking ,supercharger are more likely to be used on long motorway trips and to compare like for like , wouldn’t it be a better comparison to use average motorway fuel prices which can be about 20p/litre more expensive than elsewhere
But which fossil driver would ever choose to use one? I never did. Waze can take you just off the motorway to save the 20p.
They do though, not sure why! When I go to Scotland Via M6 , I go off the motorway , at Carlisle and I found a Morrison’s about 5 minutes away.
I think 30p should be the maximum charge per kW. Anywhere.
Why? It is a free market and people will choose based on price and service/reliability.
Agree. Imagine if petrol price varied depending on how quick it filled.
@@jeremylister89 I used to avoid petrol stations with particular diesel pumps that would cut off the fuel when the overfilling system was fooled by foaming when the fuel was pumped at full rate. It was right pain in the bum (and very slow) to try to regulate the pumping so that this wouldn't happen
@@redshift3 Oh dear, never had that experience.
@@jeremylister89 probably an unfortunate combination of the designs of my previous ICE car and the pump
Have dropped my BP Pulse membership about a month ago. With Gridserve & Instavolt updating sites along my regular routes, I'd rather pay more to have a multi-charger destination.
I'm also not keen on them charging more for using the 150kW units as my car can't do much over 50kW anyway. (MG ZS EV)
I have had 77kW rate on my ZS EV when at a low state of charge...
@@bellshooter yeah me too, but just not very often and never on a Pulse 150 unit. Did get that for a short while at Rugby.
All very interesting thanks for your knowledge. Oh to be able to see a Rapid charger here in the North ! You do not mention that 70% of petrol cost is TAX, worried eventually tax man will spot this and start charging us at roadside chargers (all speeds) to get some tax back. Electricity only has 5% VAT on it currently and a business user can get that back.... convoluted reclaim though.
As you point out most people will be charging at £0.15-0.16 at home, or £0.04 on economy 7 rate. Not to mention make your own through PV cells as you do.
In WY they are giving the stuff away until Oct21, just pay for parking. So I am getting 45kWh for £0.70 parking. Trying to get all taxis to move to electric by giving free electricity.
PodPoint is even better: the ones located Tesco are free to use (Certainly at York and Clitheroe). I'll go round the corner and charge at the PodPoint rather than the one at home now and again, because it's free. In contrast, the BP/Pulse over at Aldi is their usual price - and *nobody* uses it, as the Tesco PodPoints are only a mile further up the road.
Recent price increases have been from those providers who were previously under-charging VAT at 5%, and are now paying the correct level (20%) to HMRC - so they're not really price increases at all.
Can’t help thinking you can buy an awful lot of petrol/diesel with the money you’d have saved buying the equivalent ice car before reach the cost of the ev.
Back when I looked at Prius v PlugIn Prius(PiP) I did the sums.
Assuming 100% of mileage in PiP was on electric AND electricity was free, it would take 10yrs of 100k miles to break even on the purchase price difference.
Ouch.
@@richardlloyd2589 But were you looking at the Prius to save money on operating costs or to reduce your carbon emissions. EV's are not like the petrol v diesel argument. Also as fuel and duty prices increase I would bet that EV charging will also increase at a competitive rate regardless of cost to source electricity.
@@Yorkie-UK Screw carbon emissions a bloody fallacy perpetuated by the climate Nazis. Its cost per mile/km that matter. Let India China Russia and the USA save the planet. Oh and we better chuck in Brazil and Argentina too. Sorry but the carbon bollocks just pisses me off.
@@wideyxyz2271 Then an EV is not for you. I am not an environmentalist by any means but I do a high number of miles for business every year. It is worth me looking into switching to lower my carbon footprint as the change is coming by law and videos like this are good tool to understanding some of the operating costs but they are not the total proof as to why you would switch.
@@wideyxyz2271 oh I see we have FB expert here
Really, we should be comparing average price of motorway service station petrol/diesel to rapids shouldn't we? And average local petrol/diesel to home charging costs? Great overview though - helps me pick which networks to aim for! :-)
Prices aren’t inflated at services for electric.
@@ElectricVehicleMan no but I think he's saying the fossil fuel price is, which makes the leccy relatively even better value at those locations
@@Hyfly13 Rapid charging isn’t about motorways though. It’s done anywhere. Like petrol, few will use them.
@@ElectricVehicleMan certainly the only time I ever use rapid is on a motorway, but probably fewer people use motorway services for Dino juice than electrons.(just because of range differences)
@@Hyfly13 But on the flip side I have only once in 25 years worth of driving put fuel in on the motorway services. So pretty irrelevant.
I'm the kind of person this video is for.
I want to go electric. I don't have a drive and park on the road at work. I don't have a large family to charge for hours at a cheap rate at Tesco.
I would rapid charge my car all the time. Time costs money.
The average was about 9p per mile. On average mileage of 7900 that will be a saving of around £5 a week. For me it will be about £7.50 a week.
Sadly it's just not worth the saving Vs time taken.
Side note and question how do you heat the vehicle in winter? How much power does it drain/use to keep the cab climate at a comfortable level?
Always interested to see what the whiteboard is going to be used for when it appears in the thumbnail! Great content and interesting analysis. Thanks
In France we also get E85 fuel (ethanol) it costs about 0.64€ per litre (less than half a litre of petrol) it's a bargain. Also don't forget that if you use your EV on the motorway, you most likely left home with a full charge that cost only a fraction of the cost of a rapid charger so that needs to be taken into consideration with the price/mile
Brilliant, that's cleared up a few questions
clear as mud.
As a non EV owner, but interested in getting one as a next car, the variation and multiple ways of paying seems totally unjustifiable. This is a barrier to adoption. Needs to be as easy and 'flat rate' as buying petrol.
Thanks for the breakdown though. Really interesting!
I hate spending 5mins a month filling up my car at the petrol stn, how much of my life will I lose cos I don't "live in an ivory tower"?
AND, how much longer will a long journey take?
Can we get an update of this video with the new prices please
I think that's a good summary, even for Rapid only charging it shows you have to really try hard to make an EV to be more expensive than an ICE. For me I'm hoping as the number of charging locations increase a bit more competition (especially if Gridserve keep prices at the same level) it will start to force the shell/instavolt/Ionity prices down a bit to keep customers.
Very detailed video, you missed Swarco E-Connect but as they charge 30p they are the same as EH. Well done.
I am getting 30 mpg or 40 mpg on a run from my SLK. I used to average about 3.5 miles per kWh in a Zoe, basically free because a lot of 22 kw chargers are free. I don't do many miles so not an issue but if I did an EV the only way to go.
I must admit I was a bit surprised at the 'average' 50mpg figure. We are comparing cars on long journeys mostly at motorway speeds, 50 sounds a bit on the optimistic side. Sounds more like an average for very small cars or hybrids. The 'average' car is probably closer to 40 on such journeys.
I wonder why these members only clubs are allowed by governments. This bs doesnt happen at the petrol forecourt. I have never heard of a membership to a petrol forecourt which significantly cheapens the petrol or diesel. Why the f#€k do we accept that this and the lack of normal chip and pin was acceptable. Its bloodly ludicrous, no wonder its taken so long for the gen populous to get on board with evs.
I think you're being very kind to the petrol/deisel cars as per MPG. I have a 1 litre petrol car that advertises itself as getting 50 MPG but the best I've ever achieved is 40. My previous car was a deisel 1.4l that said I coud get 70mpg and I never achieved better than 45.
When they test the cars prior to claiming these MPG figures Brian, they do it on a test rig. There is no headwind, nor any hills or gradients........ Real world driving conditions knocks it down considerably. But you already knew that.....
I personally think its reflective of both our diesel cars - 1.4 fiesta and 1.5 Nissan qashqai.
50 and 52mog respectively. Granted it's just school runs these days, as we both wfh now
Also, at a much slower speed than most people drive. How many drive 100 kph on the highway
many diesel car say they get more miles than they really get. some people on some types of trips may get good mpg.
but really when only looking a fuel cost then it does miss out on other factors that add more cost to a petrol or diesel car mileage costs
@@davidsworld5837 I'm sure you're right, I'm only reading off the on-board computer readings and marrying that up with how much we spend pm on fuel.
Sadly despite me being a fan of the EV concept (and being in a detached house with driveway / garage) it simply doesn't add up if I wanted to convert to an equivalently spec'd EV based SUV to replace our main car.
Whilst id save money by self charging (let's say id save £50pm) that is undermined by loan repayments increasing x 2.5 or 3 times, and insurance always taking a hike upwards.
Yes ppl talk about reduction in service costs, wear 'n tear etc, but it comes nowhere close to helping justifying the increased expense.
Excited to see what the next 4-5 years bring, and I really like my next vehicle to be EV based ;)
I have cancelled my BP pulse subscription due to the increase in charging cost per kilowatt hour. The excuse that the increase is to pay for the expensive infrastucture is ridiculous. Does one pay extra for buying fuel at a new petrol station? I don't think so. Do you pay more for a car that is produced at a newly built factory? No, you don't. As regards profit margins; if a litre of petrol sold gives a net profit of 10p then this equates to selling an equivalent 3 kilowatt hours being a profit of 3.3p per kwh. So theoretically they should charge only 3.3p over the grid cost per kwh.
i.e. about 25p max. ( 1 litre of fuel gives about 11 miles. 11 miles in an EV uses about 3kwh electricity). However the law of supply and demand will eventually even out and reduce the extortionate cost that some charging providers are currently charging.
An even more ridiculous system found in France is charging according to the minute. Here you are paying a differentially increasing cost per kwh as the longer you charge the less kwh you are putting in per minute as the charge rate falls as you approach 100% not to mention, of course, any fault of the charging post in delivering the charge much slower.
It's not like BP can't afford a short term investment without offloading the cost on consumers.
We need to factor in the charging time compared to the petrol fill time for going on a long journey. I can fill 1 litre in 3 seconds, or 13.5 seconds per gallon which gives me 50 miles. This equals 0.27 seconds fill time per mile. What is the equivalent charge time in seconds per mile? I have seen an advert for 100 miles worth of charge in 30 minutes using an ultra fast point; that is 18 seconds per mile, or 60 times slower. This implies that for a motorway service station to be able to charge the same number of electric vehicles per hour as it can currently supply with fuel, it would need to have 60 charge points for each existing fuel pump. Your comments please?
You forgot to mention evengie they are free until the end of September 2021. 50kw CCS & Chademo plus 7 kw socket. Bradford have 50 installed from Crosshills to Leeds boundary.
Brighouse have two in separate carparks and you get 1 HR free parking. 14 X pod chargers at
7KW, free at Clayton road shopping centre.
They also have 4 X Instavolt great to use was 35p but now to expensive at 40 pence per KW
Great channel mate watched all your vids
Could you calculate the annual running costs of a 10 year old diesel passatt (49mpg) - currently due to Covid
If you do low mileage there will never be any point going electric (other than still having a habitable planet to live on... ). That is, until the cost ratios change dramatically (petrol at £10/l, all the petrol stations close, etc etc ....)
@@andymccabe6712 I don't disagree that electric is the way to go - but range is an issue - if you do long journeys its all the extra time of filling up. Electric vehicles are currently over priced. Additionally where is this electricity coming from (at the moment its from burning fossil fuels) so the environmental point is not yet correct - and hopefully will be soon. We were lied to about oil v coal (oil seen to be cleaner) then diesel v petrol. I think what will flip the equation will be (1) better ranges (2) much better recharge networks (3) much faster charging times (including domestic) (4) lower acquisition cost (very similar if not cheaper than internal combustion engines) - the tech in not new (milkfloats had electric motors in the 50's) and (5) Carbon levy - e.g. much higher carbon fuel costs. My next car will be electric - but I doubt that will happen soon.
I sat down and did similar sums 22 months ago before buying an Ioniq.
The 2.0 diesel was costing 17p per mile in fuel. 40k miles later the Ioniq is averaging 3p per mile.
Most charging is done overnight at home supplemented by free charging at shopping centres plus an average of one rapid charge a week.
I usually change cars after 100k it'll be interesting to see the value of this one at that point, the battery warranty is 100k but so far there is zero battery degradation.
On a side note I've been on Octopus Agile since Jan and the prices haven't come down as I expected when the weather warmed up. Any ideas as to why electricity prices aren't cheaper?
Move to octopus go faster mate
Hyundai Motor Group have a stake in Ionity but if I tried to use a KiaCharge card to pay for an Ionity charge it would still cost me 70p per kWh so not all "club" members get preferential rates
Great information- availability and consistency at a middle price good for me. Of course petrol is now above £1:40
I think I'd be okay with charging different prices for different charge rates but it shouldn't be an automatically higher cost for turning up at a faster charger. It should just be an option when you plug in. Do you want standard 50kw charging at this price or since charger and car have had a chat and figured out 100kw is possible do you want that for this much more money? You'll save 15 minutes on a charge to 80%, you know you want it...
For info: 1 litre of petrol is the equivalent to 9.1kWhrs of electrical power. Combustion engines (modern ones) are generally better than 40% efficient so only 3.64 of those 9.1kWhrs are used to propel you down the road. Modern cars consume fuel at circa 1ltre every 10 miles (about your figure of 50mpg) or better. It’s the equivalent of around .364 kWhrs/mile. If we could improve combustion engine efficiency to sixty percent then as well as cost to run being cheaper, the combustion engine would be greener than electric vehicles on whole life costs (and thats all that matters).
Great explanation. Thanks for sharing this latest useful information.
The BP Pulse 50/150 is like Premium or Regular octane petrol - you pay (a bit) more for the higher quality stuff and that's fair enough. But if a fuel station only has one type available, you might choose to go elsewhere. The issue, as with petrol, whether a driver knows the relevance of each and whether the choice to go elsewhere actually exists in that area! AND on the difference in the price between the two!
I think I will stick with my hybrid as I am getting 76 MPG as I don’t fancy waiting at chargers for the vehicle to charge. A very interesting video and I love the information on different rates from different charging companies. I do think it is a rip off with them charging more than the basic rate per kWh which the supply companies charge. If I wanted to sell electricity to someone I am not allowed to. So why are these charging companies being allowed to charge way in excess of the basic KWH charge
FYI I brought an EV after comming to your channel.....then the headaches started after getting an EV..different charge points cables 10000 cards...but thanks to your advice all is good 👍
How many of those networks offer rapid AC? Apparently the new Gridserve points don't have AC on them at the moment (but they are supposed to be installing separate rapid AC points at some point in the future).
AC isn't rapid really.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Sure it's not 150kW, but if you take away AC rapid and don't replace it, you turn thousands of Zoes into local cars only. Given AC rapid is also massively cheaper to install than any DC charger, this seems shortsighted.
Great explanation. So apart from the complex pricing, and the inability to answer the phone, BP Pulse are ok? ;)
Couldn't get the last 4 I tried to work. Not on app or contactless.
Never had problem with members card. But seen plenty of other people struggling with the app
Also couldn't get the last two i tried to work via app or contactless. Nobody answered the phone and the helpline just hangs up after 20 mins. Then I had to get them to manually refund the connection fees as the system is too thick to successfully void fees when no energy is delivered.
Interested in making the switch to an EV but still feeling like Tesla is the best option and not only due to the charging network but one of the factors. Enjoy your videos, really interesting content, thank you.
Exactly the reason why electric isn't there yet. Not because of the cars (some anyway), because of the infrastructure, it's shocking.
Note that for company car drivers the HMRC advisory fuel rate is 4p/mile.That's the most your company can reimburse for business use. Anything above that is taxable income. Whatever it costs to charge up, anything over 4p/mile will come out of your own pocket. Not good for sales reps or service engineers that cannot get through the day without charging away from home.
In other words use your EV ONLY for commuting provided you can recharge at home and if you want to drive any further get a cheap second-hand gas car just for that purpose (long journey) and forget about travelling far in your EV as it's not cost and time effective. I'm astonished Ionity can dare to charge that much - avoid like fire. Even all those other networks are not competitive at all and should only be used in emergencies. Hope potential EV buyers will see the light. Thanks EV Man for making it so clear.
Petrol & diesel, you turn up at any garage, fill up in five minutes and pay with your debit card, EASY. EV charging has far too many hurdles or drawbacks and is reliant on you having pre registered with charging companies, putting numerous Apps on your mobile and if you break your phone, lose it or forget to take it with you then you ain’t going anywhere. Paying to charge an EV must be made quicker and a lot easier.
The clue for the BP Pulse pricing policy might be in the ‘BP’ part of the name.
However what is the average % of time/charge that, those who usually charge at home, use a rapid charger. Probably a very broad range but generally not much so the cost per mile is still a lot less than petrol/diesel.
It's a business. Would you expect an electricity supplier to give you it for free?
Of course buying electricity from a supplier for your car is going to be more expensive than at home
Handy guide 👍🏻 - no mention of Tesla supercharger even though they have variable rates depending on sites which is confusing too! 😅😬
I am an old person but I can still manage basic arithmetic...
I do about 5,000 miles per year in my 2016 Suzuki Celerio. Conservatively driven, over all conditions, it averages 72 mpg (typically 75 on the trip computer), so about 16 miles/litre. I have a Jet station around the corner & they're always cheap (currently £1.26 per litre for unleaded). So my aggregate fuel cost is 7.88p per mile; comparable to your typical 9p per mile EV number.
However my car cost £7,000 new. Let's say it does 50,000 miles over 10 years at which point it's fully depreciated, so 14p per mile. Now the absolute cheapest EV I can find is a nearly new, low mileage MG ZS for £17.5k, so over 10 years that's 35 pence per mile. Neither car attracts road tax so the overall comparison is 21.88 p per mile (ICE) vs 44p per mile (EV). You just can't 'forget' the humongous cost of EVs when deciding to go green. I for one can't make the economic argument work...
There is so little saving in ev driving it hardly helps you much unless you are charging at home overnight. My little picanto does around 50mpg and takes 5 mins to fill up. The problem is when I have looked at buying an ev the purchase prices are just stupid. 30k on average. My other car is a dacia which was 16k new. That takes needs to be added to the cost of the electric.
I went on a trip with a ev owner the trip took us an hour longer due to charging for 45mins. Just not enough chargers I think the governments targets of no more petrol or diesel cars is just pie in the sky. If only I could get an ev that does 250miles for a reasonable price.
Lucky for you, Dacia appear to be making an electric car for a lower price. According to the ev-database, it's future is uncertain right now, but the price for range for vehicle size looks compelling. ev-database.uk/car/1319/Dacia-Spring-Electric
time = money. 5 min to fill up with fuel how long to charge
I've got an I3 rex and did my first long journey when I did the maths using the rex and Instavolt at 35.p KWH I'm not convinced it wouldn't have been cheaper in my CT200h hybrid. Thankfully its the first time I've had to use the rex and most of the time the car is a pure EV charging at home on the cheap
It may be cheaper at the moment to charge at home but has anyone noticed that our lovely foreign owned utility companies have increased their residential charges by 40% this year. At that rate we will be paying 50p a Kw within 4 years. In addition it is not just a charging cost you need to factor in there is also the cost of replacing the batteries.
I agree with faster charges having a higher price so people try and choose what suits either journey, car and pocket but it should be done by lowering the price of the 50kw chargers. So price increases should not affect 50kw only 150kw+. If you can afford a car that charges at 100kw+ you will pay the extra.
The hope is eventually a company comes along and simplifies the whole thing where you just tap your phone or your card and your charges a flat rate and you don’t need to sign up at all, “just pay”
On the BP pulse example with a Zoe that's only capable of receiving 50kW of power arriving at a 150kW capable charger, where it costs the customer more while only getting the 50kW their car is capable of.
I feel that we're faced with the same issue we had with PHEVs in the early days, where we would prefer to incentive the use of a charger that closer matches the vehicles capability, so that the faster charger can be used to it's maximum potential by other customers with the full (or in excess of) the charger's 150kW supply.
That only works if there are multiple options for people to choose from.
As you said below, you only pay for the charge delivered to your battery. But the fastest chargers require their cables to be water cooled. One can only assume that heat is generated by electricity you are actually not paying for. The cooling will also cost to run, so I can see a case for a higher price at the really speedy chargers vs the slow ones.
As a PHEV owner minimum charges per charging session, connection charges or parking fees if you leave your car whilst charging while there is ample free parking close by the charger, many times renders public charging more expensive compared to just continuing to drive on petrol. That "evil" option is always available in a PHEV.
Living in Scotland I decided the public charging network wasn't built out enough for our household to dare to go down from two ICE cars to just one pure EV. Whilst I prefer how a pure EV is driving our PHEV does all our daily driving on electricity so we wouldn't save any more petrol by having gone pure EV. Having many times tried to use the public network to charge whilst away has really opened my eyes to how unreliable it really is. Several times all charging spaces are already occupied, the unoccupied ones are showing as broken or won't start the charge for one way or another when connecting... PHEVs aren't "evil" if you keep them charged. If only it was easier to keep them charged when away from home at a reasonable price/kWh.
A car that can only charge at 50 will take up space on a fast charger that can deliver a faster charge- thus impacting its throughput and profit
Yeah so solution is offer us the 50 as that's all we can take
My closet charge point is source who say they charge a discounted rate of 0.27p (£4 per month) if you have a permit for the borough. Petrol is about £1.60 per litre I get an average of 42mpg and do an average of 90miles a day for work. I can’t charge an ev from home. 🤔
Saying about Charge Place Scotland, some councils like Falkirk in there wisdom have put in a blanket price of 25p pkwh for everything from 7kw fast charger to 50kw Rapids. When in comparison East Lothian have 16p pkwh for fast and 30p pkwh for Rapid, but atleast it's not as bad as Fife's pricing. I feel that the council's are going to learn a hard lesson as all the other networks move in, but on the plus side the CPS replacement service offer multiple tariffs to be applied by the council's, so we could see on and off peak pricing.
Is there any VAT on public chargers?
Because the governor will have to make up the loss from petrol tax; probably by upping the road tax.
20%
Interestingly, the Morrisons near me has just dropped in a GeniePoint with a 22kw Charger Socket, a 50kw ChaDeMo Plug and a 50 kw CCS Plug. All are listed as 35p / kwh (with a £10 overstay fee after 3hrs on 22kw Charger / 90 mins on ChaDeMo or CCS)... Does make me wonder which I would use, if I didn't have a home charger...
For some rapid chargers there is sometimes a connection fee to also factor in on top of the kWh charge
Is that still the case? I thought they'd all stopped doing that.
What is your reason for not including Tesla Super Charger’s cost in your schedule? As for the complex charging structure of BP etc, I suspect people will vote with their feet and that should cause them to re-thing their strategy. Hoping that Kempower chargers will grow rapidly ASAP in the UK.
Tesla isn’t a public network.
A) I go to the filling station B) The price per litre is clearly displayed C) I fill the tank and pay. Total time 4 minutes. This video ensures that any thoughts I might have harboured about getting an EV are now dead in the water until the retail cost of charging begins to look at least slightly sane
Hey Bill.
In reality, though - admittedly, as long as you have the benefit of off-street parking at home or at work - about 99% of charging an EV happens when the car's sat on your driveway / in your work's car park.
At 16p per kW, I'm not (yet) on the cheapest of EV-only tariffs, but even then it equates to only about 4p per mile to 'fuel' my EV, saving me about £1000 per year on the 12,000 miles I cover.
I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use a rapid charger over the last year, so the numbers in this video are largely irrelevant.
If you are too dumb to understand this just buy a Tesla. They have their own chargers.
thanks again for the break down, as i understand things charge place scotland are free, as it scotish goverment(tax payer funded) but local authortys can charge a fee to run the network in there control, to off set the cost of prividing the network.
I run a 1.6 td Skoda Karoq suv. 2018 model. As at 12th December Diesel is £6.50 a gallon. Average mileage is 55mpg on regular round trips of ninety motorway miles. The same cost as electric, 12p a mile. Actually managed 64.8mpg by keeping to 55mph the other day.
The government bean counters know this so expect even more tax on proper fuel.
The faster the charger the more units of electricity they can sell per hour so shouldn't be more expensive
Partly true but the faster they charge the harder it is for them to get the electrons in at the required speed so there are big costs involved, bigger power lines (higher unit prices from energy suppliers), battery supplementing and, of course, the chargers themselves are more expensive to make. That is all partly offset by getting through more customers but that depends on there being an unlimited supply of customers waiting which isn't true (yet) in most places.
It's in their interest as well to have a faster charge rate, then they can sell more energy per day from the same charger, needing less chargers for the same potential revenue.
Ha ha, the faster the charge the more electricity needs to be produced at one time.
@@andyjdhurley "but the faster they charge the harder it is for them to get the electrons in at the required speed" which actually has nothing to do with the charger, everything to do with the battery tech.
"and, of course, the chargers themselves are more expensive to make" there really isn't any "of course" about it. The controller/software is going to be absolutely identical. Cabling might be a bit more expensive, but it's also going to be far more reliable because it is only going to run at peak capacity for those EVs that can take the full charge rate. The rest of the time, it'll be running at below capacity and therefore far, far less stressed.
So the next question, as you touched on, is what is the most you would be willing to pay to use public chargers?
As the prices of EVs (generally) are reaching parity with equivalent non EVs (both bought new), the cost of fuelling them is rising. So if you want to own an EV but cannot charge at home, are they still worth it?
In my case, having owned (3yr purchase agreements) two EVs previously, I had to revert back to a non EV in order to be abled to move from UK to SW France, where there are far fewer public chargers and greater distances between destinations. That was the right choice to make. So as well as cost to charge, there’s STILL, after a decade of EVs, few places to charge them here. They’re normally blocked by other drivers not (yet) realising what they are …. Approx 750miles from here to Calais and then whatever in UK, so let’s say two charges in France, meaning two 45min to 1hr stops, if the chargers are unoccupied…. So charging may well be cheaper (you can do the maths for my journey) but unless I buy a Tesla, adding 2hrs to the journey for charging is far more of an issue than the cost and availability of diesel and my diesel can average well over 50mpg.
Just saying.
Some 22 kW chargers give you 15 minutes to confirm charging, via your app. That's 15 minutes of free electricity, and worthwhile, if your car can take 3-phase electricity.
Some suppliers also have a connection fee of £1 to £1.50, depending upon payment method, even if you have to abort the charge.
Most of the saving is fuel duty. The government will come looking for its due elsewhere, cancelling the benefits.
Indeed, with the fuel duty removed that 12p/mile figure becomes 6.5p/mile.
How many of each rapid charge stations are there and where are they is also something you must consider in this calculation....I can get diesel from any station country wide
Ref, increased cost for kW rate; these sites were likely more expensive to install over standard 50kW sites. The reason being that more capacity is made available to these sites in order to provide this faster charging. This will very likely have required significant 11kV network reinforcement, and possibly 33kV/132kV. Part of this reinforcement cost would be passed to the owner of these sites.
So why don't other networks charge more?
@@ElectricVehicleMan I suppose it depends on where they are looking to recover their costs from, what public funds are made available to them, and what timeframe they are looking for each unit to become profitable.
Got to remember that in the UK the overwhelming part of the cost of the fuel to the consumer is fuel duty.
Which only underlines the point that prices are set at what people will pay not at production and distribution costs. Supply side economics (prices set at cost of production) often proves to be irrelevant. Demand side economics (prices set at what people will pay at the target volumes by the product/service provider) is what makes comparisons like these kind of non-topics.
It’s not a topic, it’s how much it will cost to do A or B. No interpretation going on.
@@ElectricVehicleMan several times though you ask if the manufacturing cost of the chargers is the cause (and stuff like that) ...
This was insightful, I don't own an EV, but it gives an idea of what to expect, like some others have mentioned a Tesla pricing would be good to give a comparison, I know they give you it free for a year or something, but Tesla are known for doing it right with regards to charging coverage and speeds so would be good to see how the public variant stacks up.
Now all I need to know is how to buy a Model S Plaid on a bus drivers wage.
The Tesla website says 28p per kwh. You can get 1000 kwh free with a referral when you buy a Tesla car.
Er, and how to find somewhere you could actually use a Model S Plaid.....!
@@andymccabe6712 about the same number of places you can use any other SUV !
@@andymccabe6712 just the same as every other car on the road that does over 70mph, on a track, there's a popular race track very near me.
There's millions of cars on the road that can do over 100mph, even my wifes 1.2 eco Fiesta can, the only public place in the world to go over 70 is the autobahn, yet companies constantly sell cars with double the national speed limits and up, but i would love a Model S Plaid, just the same as a Shelby GT500 or even a classic Cortina MK3 with either a V8 or as an EV, maybe a Sierra Sapphire Cosworth or a classic VW camper, I would love to own any because I love the look and to own would be amazing, doesn't mean I want to do their top speed though.
There is the "Cost" of using contactless payment when charging to consider. By cost, I mean the charge on your card (let's call it a payment to avoid confusion) before you start charging which iirc is £15 or so (some take considerably more).
This payment is sidelined by your card provider until the the final cost of charging is calculated. You. Are unable to access these funds until the transaction is completed. The charging cost is then deducted from the £15 payment and the remainder is returned for your use.
The actual timeframe for this transaction could be upto a week depending on certain factors. So you have no access to a high percentage of that payment for quite a long time after you have charged your car.
If a charge fails at any point and you have to restart, that's another payment sidelined from you account. Starts to get expensive, doesn't it?
I'm all for EV's but this practice has to be binned. When petrol stations use contactless, the card holder is pre-approved for a certain amount and at the end of fueling only what is actually owed is charged to the card.
Once the switch has been made( from hydrocarbon to electric) the prices will rise to compensate for the loss of taxes. Better enjoy it while it lasts. My Outlander is right in the sweet spot( right now). It was reasonably priced ( £10k for a 45k mile car) and it's 25 mile real world range is just enough for 18 out of 20 car journeys to be 100% electric, WITHOUT any range anxiety..... would love to be able to afford a model X though! But not on my income!
Yes, given that the existing VAT rate for all electric supplies is 5%, compared with excise duty per unit volume (litres) plus 20% VAT on top, plus VAT on the retail price part of it for fuel, there is a substantial profit margin for those selling it at prices that look like the equivalent amount of usable energy - such as BP. Not much of it going into the treasury (yet).You can do some rough sums based on petrol being about 9.5 kWh thermal, and engine efficiency around 33% etc, and work out where the cash is going each way.
Our local chargepoint is Ionity, where it's situated, it's in a car park and the car park charges a minimum of an hour, I believe it's £5 an hour plus charging fees, my ultra economical Smart diesel is cheaper to run, if I could afford to buy and own an electric vehicle I would, to be cheaper I'd need to have a home chargepoint which sadly I can't have. It's a shame because there's some good electric vehicles out there now, I'd have to have a bigger car than I need to get a half decent range for my daily commute, then the lack of infrastructure lets it down, it's expensive and for someone like me who works long hours, it's also unavailable as the car park closes at night
Would you say that a PHEV diesel like a Mercedes E300de or the new Mercedes C300e with massive electric range (for a PHEV) would be the best of both worlds? You can charge at home for local trips and then have the freedom of any fuel station be queuing at rapid/fast chargers when doing long journeys a few times a year? I like to hear your thoughts on that.
I had a similar experience when I rent eNiro from Hertz in Sweden for a road trip. +(winter weather = higher consumption)
I would've also thought with BP Pulse, it's not actually economic for them to charge more for the fast charger anyway? I assume that a fast charger can charge a car up faster than a slower one? So, in the time it takes a 50KwH charger to charge 1 car up, the 150KwH charger could have done three? And then when you add in that cars charge slower as they get close to fully charged, you've got the 'slow' charger charging less for a longer time than the fast one?
Depends on the specific car as the batteries can only take so much until they get too hot. Until recently, almost all cars could only charge up to 50kW (and the charge rate slows down as the battery gets near full, noticeably from say 85%). Several of the cars launched in 2020 take 100kW or so, and 150kW is what some of the high-end cars will do (e.g. the Porsche, which could take 350kW if there were chargers at that power).
Another good vid thanks! You'd used "averages" maybe using the mode rather than mean for ICE cars would have altered your numbers? EVs will always be cheaper to run. Also, do you think that market forces will play a greater part in these equations once 40% of the public own an EV? I see no reason why charging an EV should be no different than looking at the price on a display board and if you're happy with the cost, charging up, just as we do with Diesel & Petrol, once the majority of public are EV users. I'm convinced that what we will see is a price drop of ICE cars (as dealers hurry to sell them) with a huge increase in Diesel and Petrol prices. Get ready for £2.00+/litre. Even though I don't yet own an EV, I welcome this transition.
It's starting to get that way now, you decide what your convenient chargers are and how much you will use them to decide how much to pay. My local preference has shifted from Polar/BP Pulse, to Osprey due to convenience.
get ready for £2.00, and the cost of charging EV will respectively based on the model shown 18p pkwh.
i know my van costs me avg 2 fill ups a month £120.00, insurance £250, Service & Mot £300.00, you know that Diesel make sense still at the moment.
Lucky enough to still be taking the free CPC juice for now. Once it goes the way of the others, I'll get the home charger installed. But until then... free electrons 😁
I think you need to make a new one for 2022 as prices for electricity as they are gonna rocket British Gas on the EV tariff are looking at charging 0.15 Kw up from 0.5.KW