EV Rapid Charging Costs Vs Petrol!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- How much in 2024 does it cost to use an electric car 'Rapid Charger' vs the cost of petrol / diesel? Let's see!
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Charging prices in the UK are nuts! Most expensive CPOs here in Norway are 43p/kWh (5.99 NOK). The better ones are around 36p/kWh (4 NOK). It's been down around 22p this summer.
Recently did a 1100mile return trip using Teslas network (for non-Tesla) and it was just seamless, fast, easy and so much cheaper. £8.99 for the month makes it 8-14p cheaper per kw. Sometimes as low as 35p/kw for my journey. Making it over half the cost of other networks. Total no brainer.
and imagine if you owned a Tesla!
@@mikeforwarduk Quite honestly, it has really made me want to get one!
Don’t forget these prices include 20% VAT on Services Electricity whereas home charging is only 5%, to further incentivise EV adoption the UK Govt should make business Electricity at these services and street charging to 5%
No they should take Vat off home energy like it always was. Yet another con we just sucked up.
Energy suppliers could easy add the cost of charging to your domestic bill and charge 5%. The 5% rate isn’t for the premises, it is for the customer.
They won't do that dues to the fuel duty that they will lose when you switch to electric if anything it will increase
@@ianwatkins9609 Is that really the extra Incentivization that's going to convince all those 2nd hand ICE car owners, often in the price value of 7-12k to switch to an EV? (Those not able to home charge)
Personally I don't think it is.
Not when staring down the 2025 EV hate charter of £190 VED, expensive car supplement (which will impact the flow and uptake of 2nd hand car ownership) and the removal of the no congestion charge perks.
Lets not forget, we all have access to comparison websites, so many find EV insurance 15-30% more than their current ICE (huge variance here obviously)
Let's be honest, how many EV owners do you know who can't home charge.
And if you do know any how happy are they really?
Don't forget the £1.45 fuel price includes £0.64 fuel tax; therefore, it is currently an unfair comparison. Even with this tax burden, fuel is still approximately 70% cheaper than public charging.
Oil Company owned charges have an interest in keeping the cost high and they appear to like leaving their chargers in a broken state to add to the impression that the charging network is not ready yet.
MFG don’t…
Oil company chargers also tend to be a single charger at each location - maximising the chance of queuing.
Absolutely right. Considering their enormous resources BPPulse and Shell Recharge are absolutely hopeless and in my view intentionally so
Yep pretty much
@@JohnR31415mfg are a retailer not oil company. It’s in their interest to have people stop and shop at their forecourts.
However, if you cross the channel, on the french auto-routes it's €0.56 (47p) for a fast-charger and that's expansive. Basically you're been ripped off in the UK
we in the uk are being ripped off for everything
One thing I’d 6:09 add is Tesla has chargers in some private car parks that charge extortionate fees for parking. Got caught out on a recent trip at Preston south, where I had no idea this was the case… £200 in parking “fines”.
If you can charge at home getting an EV will save you a lot of money. My car fuel bill has gone from approx £300 per month to about £30 per month. It saves about £3,000 per year or £30,000 over 10 years. I will save nearly double what I paid for the EV in 10 years.
If you can't charge at home there's not enough incentive, financially, to get an EV...... yet
Rubbish
I have just pulled the trigger and purchased my first ev. With a ohme pod home charger. Thank you for the information
We charge at home for the vast bulk of our needs. We pay 7 pence/kWh overnight for 6 hours. It works out to marcinally less than 2 pence/mile. Together with our GivEnergy batteries used to power the house and our solar panels, we have our monthly electricity bill down to just below £36 per month - and that INCLUDES` running the car.
You were pointing at the £1.45 per litre and said that people compare the highest price of EV charging with the lowest price of petrol. When did you film this? I filled up at my nearest petrol station for 128.7p per litre. Just "Googled" average price and it's £133.59.
Paying 70p to 80p to charge an EV is like paying say £15 a litre at motorway service station
Yeah - not paying that
If you do not have the ability to charge at home/drive - then don't bother with an EV
(EV owner btw, but I haven't used, nor do I intend to use any public, let alone rapid charger)
Probably 50% of motorists do not have the ability to charge at home easily, so EV's will only really be viable for less than half of the drivers - but alas this lost in the push to phase out ICE (and Hybrids) vehicles
He's using an average that includes petrol and diesel prices.
@@AdamAugustPhoto according to RAC's own site, Tesco forecourt prices:
Petrol is 132.4p avg with lowest 123.9p to 136.9p highest
Diesel is 137.1p avg with lowest 130.9p to 141.9p highest
So adding petrol/diesel avg then divide by 2 = 134.75p
Me thinks say the fuel data price used was from say September 1st, to slightly bolster the ICE pence per mile to parity at top of chart, else the top two rows would show ICE is cheaper from the outset, compared to public charging networks
Use a slightly higher ICE pence per mile, oh look it is about the same at the top of chart
Again, if you can't charge at home then an EV is perhaps not for you
Petrol nearest me was 139.9. I know it's not a cheap station but driving to a cheaper one would cost more. Rural prices tend to be higher the further you are from civilization.
@@matthewwakeham2206 Depends on the actual distance & the savings...
If you're saving 1p or 2p then not worth worrying about if you have to travel a little
If the difference is 5p per litre, 40 litres = £2 saving which would allow say a 8 mile = 16 mile round trip to fill up at a cheaper station.
Of course it will cancel each other out especially if you factor in your time taken.
But if you actually view the RAC site it lists loads of places selling diesel at £1.35 at all corners of the country, with London station selling petrol for 123.9p
Given OFGEM has a price cap for home electricity so why isn't there regulation of public chargers covering pricing, reliability, charger design (cables that actually comfortably reach charging ports), design of charging bays (often hopelessly narrow), safety (lighting, CCTV etc.) and accessibility for disabled drivers? Charge Place Scotland pricing is unbelievably complex with a poor track record for service, but there's no regulator or ombudsman to hold them to account. Something has to change if we are ever going to replace fossil fuels with electric.
In Canada I charge, out there, for free. Over 175,582km I have paid out of pocket $325.
At least treudu (sorry for spelling) has done something right.
@@egg399. I don't live anywhere near Trudeau. We hate him more than his Dad.
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles.
When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery.
I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles.
So if you take the avg uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
Whilst EV sales are growing, private buyers are slowing and it's massively propped up by fleet sales.
That 45-50% who neither get the convenience nor cost advantages of home charging are subjected to a 2-tier pricing system.
2025 post expensive EV supplements, VED and lost of congestion charge perks is going to be tough.
You can see why for that demographic it's not a very attractive proposition.
I should add I based the public EV charging avg at .44p kwh
You made some good points, but EV servicing costs are low compared to Petrol and diesel .
@@proximaone1350 I'd be happy to wait until some independent data comes out on if they cost less maintenance wise.
The afore-mentioned Nissan, we have it serviced at a local garage (not a Stealership) for the princely sum of £120 pa.
We did take the decision to replace the timing belt + accessories earlier this year (£430) but other than the odd tyre replacement maybe we've been lucky.
Our annual mileage now kids at college down to a few thousand, and I'm sure at somepoint we'll need breaks and pads.
Nevertheless, at just over 72k in mileage (paid off obviously) we are planning to let the EV dust settle and maybe swap in 5 years.
Hopefully an EV
From my experience of a 60mpg diesel, unless your doing steady motorway miles then you will not get that mpg, I got 28-32 mpg around town.
Conversely EVs get better economy for urban and stop-start driving, so if that’s your driving style then EVs will look better.
@@monishbiswas1966 That is pretty much 95% urban, but in general I agree.
On a recent trip to London and back (300 mile RT) we avg'd 65mpg for the entire trip.
I do stick to speed limits though, so I Don't go mad lol
@@proximaone1350 the servicing costs mgh be lower, but the up front costs of purchase are much higher than ICE unless you want to buy chinese junk most EVs are 50% more expensive than their ice counterparts. also after 10 yrs the battery is close to been done, the same can not be said of an ice car. as thinbgs stand, because of battery tech limitations, this is never going to work as a true replacement for ICE, additionally the ammount of car battery fires are an increasing concern from many viewpoints, and flooding, lets not talk about what happens in major bad weather events
Also, public chargers incur 20% VAT rather Domestic 5%. So not only are commercial per KwH more expensive, we are taxed more also for changing in public. So to get the effect of VAT difference knock 15% of all those public charging costs,
Or rather divide by 1.2 and multiply by 1.05. That 12.5% off.
I do agree with you. Rapid chargers are really expensive to use as is the fuel price at motorway services. So when talking to people about this I always say you wouldn’t chose to fill your car with petrol or diesel at a motorway services if you don’t need to except when you are on that long journey. The same can be said with charging only use a rapid charger when there is no other option ie on that long journey. Every other time you charge at home we’re as you say it’s considerably cheaper doing so offsets the cost. There is one other option that maybe available if your stopping overnight find a hotel / b&b with overnight chargers at a considerably cheaper cost sometimes free if your lucky.
The Parish Council built a new car park in our village and installed 2 x 22Kw chargers, current price is 60p/kwh via Vendelectric.
I have lived here for 2 years and have yet to see a vehicle plugged in and charging!!! There are several Tesla’s in the village but all home charge of course. Wonder how long those chargers will be there for?
Their time will come I'm sure. As this video says, the cost of 22kw chargers isn't a lot.
Let's assume that a high proportion of those using rapid chargers are doing longer trips, where the distance exceeds the range of the car. And assume we're comparing the price per mile of rapid charging compared to motorway fuel prices. There's still a problem. Last month, my wife took our MG5 from Fife to Leeds - 250 mile journey, 250 mile range. There was nowhere to hook into mains at the far end, so no access to granny charger prices. Destination charging was an option if she could leave the car overnight ... but that wasn't going to happen.
Her only option was to use rapid chargers. So we looked at the price of charging en route. The cheapest was at Jedburgh - 60p/kWh which wasn't too bad, but it was only a slow 50kW charger, and from there to Leeds and back would be 300 miles (plus some miles running around in Leeds). She could get to Newcastle - 69p is the cheapest we could find. Other than these, it would be a case of charging on the A1 / A1(M). On the way down, she used Scotch Corner Services - Gridserve, 79p/kWh. OUCH!!! (Yes, there's a discount if you use their app, but what's the point if your wife is only going to use the app once or twice and she objects to giving her personal & banking details to save a relatively small amount?) And yes, there's a Tesla station at Scotch Corner. But it's Tesla only, and in any case I struggle to find any Tesla chargers open to non-Teslas near any main road. In fact, unless you wanted to take the long way home from Newcastle (A1), there are NO Tesla chargers open to non-Teslas betwen Leeds/Harrogate and Perth/Dundee - so for us, this isn't an option whatever the price
On the way home, my wife had a 'confidence' top-up at Boroughbridge - BP Pulse, 79p/kWh - in a little town a few miles from the motorway. This was the best option within a reasonable radius of the motorway. Then she did a full charge at Scotch Corner Services - Gridserve again, also 79p/kWh. .
At the end of the day, the overall cost per mile for her trip was 13.5p/mile (280 at rapid charger prices, plus 250 at 8.95p overnight at home). So the cost was still much the same as (but no cheaper than) taking her petrol car. Taken over a year, the extra for rapid charging is insignificant, and running an EV is still a no brainer!
BUT HERE'S THE PROBLEM. Driving a petrol/diesel, you could look at the area around a junction on any arterial road and, in all likelihood, find a supermarket within a couple of miles. Go there and you can avoid paying motorway prices. BUT look for a rapid charger in the area around the same junction, and the prices are essentially the same as on the motorway. The fuel vendors say that they HAVE to charge inflated prices on motorways because they have to cover the exorbitant cost of having the filling station in the service area. Presuming the landlord makes similarly exorbitant charges for hosting a charging station, the £/kWh must cover those charges. But charging stations outside the service area presumably don't incur those costs (which is why stations are popping up near, rather than in, service areas). So why is there no differential in the price?
It's a pain when two of the open to all superchargers (Perth and Dundee) are at the start/end of one's journey and there are no open to all chargers near where you are going. The chargeplace Scotland charges around Angus aren't too bad (55p/kWh) for 50kw charging but again pointless if almost home. There are too many places in Scotland where you have to lap up silly charging prices and/or gamble with CPS sites with poor records. Around Dundee and Perth is an exception thanks to Tesla.
I have been doing similar trips from scotland to leeds. I find Ionity are good locations especially recent new sites. The monthly subscription I take out in the summer months only. But then I have also driven to various parts of Europe using Ionity. A single charge can cover the monthly cost.
I charged yesterday in Perth, Western Australia. It was Aud$0.45 per kWh. Equals about £0.23 per kWh. Normally I charge from my solar which is free.
We have an Instavolt charger round the corner and it's always full of work vans, presumably using 'fuelcards'.
I typically charge at the Aldi across the road which is 25p/kwh. While i have off street parking, i work nights so can't take advantage of the cheaper rates. I do often dump the car at my mother's and charge at her's overnight at 7p
Look at Ovo Anytime Charging , I work odd hours and if i get home at 6am in the morning i can departure charging for 8pm for just 7p per KW hour. Then you do not need to rely on the cheap overnight charging hours.
Perhaps look at Octopus Tracker?
or consider a home battery?
Great video thanks. FYI in London we have lamp post chargere run by Car.gy (yes that is how you spell it). They charge 59p/kWh (day) and 39p/kWh (night 00:00 - 07:00). I have at least 3 within 1/2 mile of my front door.
For comparision in Australia...
Warm climate = greater miles per kwh , 4mi/kWh is a reasonable number (I get 5.7 lifetime in my model 3).
Regular fuel averages $1.90 a litre , @ 50mpg (uk) = 17.3 cents per mile
The average Tesla supercharger is 66c per kwh / 4 = 16.5c per kwh x 1.05 for charge losses x 1.05 for idle losses (drain while parked) = 18.2 cents per mile
My home charge cost is 8c per kwh, I average 5.7mi per kwh lifetime = 1.4c per mile x 1.1 for losses = 1.5c per mile.
you must drive extremely slowly! Most model 3's are around 265Wh/mi=3.77mi/kWh
Praise be, to the white board of truth...
When you were younger did you imagine you would become a teacher.
I always find the numbers interesting.
Given the pricing, the more Tesla opens their network, the competitors will have to adapt their pricing.
I just searched for wholesale electricity prices. Currently 8p / kW. I assume VAT needs adding. But that is a huge difference form 80p/kW. If the companies make 50p profit per kW then it only takes 164kW per day (about 4 decent charges ?) for a year to break even. Assuming £30k setup cost.
30k is pretty optimisticz
Companies will ALWAYS charge as much as they can get away with to suggest otherwise is not the real world
Your liberal use of incorrect units put me on edge.
The figures assuming 50MPG are very very much in the favour of ICE. I used to find 35 to 40 was my general when I owned petrol and diesels. I have looked at a quick average UK MPG and it seems 2024 is 36 for petrol and 43 for diesel.
Maybe for these comparisons, you need the 2 figures. It will also give a better comparison. Otherwise a great explanation and video.
Do you think that we will see prices reduce again to how they were 3 to 4 years ago as electric prices in general have dropped?
They have literally just risen in the last two weeks & will go up again in a few months.
My wife just traded her Volvo S90 for a second hand Tesla Model 3 Long Range. She's done a couple of long trips that she does regularly. Instead of spending about £100 on diesel for them, she's spent about £20 - mostly charging at home but a couple of Supercharger top-ups too.
Makes no sense at all to run a fossil if you can charge at home.
I agree. an economical car will do 50 to 60mpg but the gas guzzlers we commonly see would be lucky to get 30mpg so the average is bound to be somewhere in the middle. A quick Google would suggest 38mpg is average with petrol worse and diesel better. I haven't double checked the figures but they sound about right.
@@FFVoyagerthe supercharger network is very good, works and is the cheapest. If you go out of peak hours it can be as low as 20p, mid hours 40p and peak hours 60p and that's for 250kw or as fast as your car can handle. And it's open to any car that has the CCS charger.
If you have a non Tesla, you can pay £9pm and you get the same price as a Tesla owner gets. Given the 15-20p saving, you save that £9 with one charge per month. So it's a no brainer to sub to and use as your default setting in your route planner. I like to use chargemap.
If you are an octopus energy user, you can use them that covers alot of the charger networks, and it gives you the option for the charge price to go onto your monthly house bill.
Also both octopus and chargemap offer plug and charge, so just like a Tesla you simply plug in and it works. If your car is supported, lots are.
Chargemap will auto pay your Tesla supercharger stops, octopus doesn't have Tesla SC auto pay yet.
@@StephenButlerOne yes, she went from where we live on the Somerset/Devon border to London and stopped on the way back at about 11 at night for 10 minutes and still added more than she needed to get home! It was only a couple of quid too.
How do these figures look if you're driving mainly around towns or doing short journeys?
CP Scotland has been rolling out for at least 12 years. They are now upgrading old chargers. In my area it’s 35p if I join the network as a member. As You say there is over 200, and some in very very remote places.
Hi EVM. When I was at Everything Electric show a few months ago I challenged Osprey and they told me that they have to get a ROI to their equity investors and so they will charge as much as they can (the market rate) for as long as they can. It’s as simple as that. Also as you say it costs to install rapid DC chargers. Typical equipment such as Lidl’s ABB 50kw older style units cost £23k plus vat plus delivery and each need a 120A three phase supply which does not come cheap from the DNO’s. Thank goodness we can home charge like you at 7p/kwh.
If their prices were lower, they could encourage more EV and grow their profits on volume.
200 chargers making 10k a year £2m
1000 chargers making 5k a year £5m
A crude example.
Longer term if you gain a reputation as one of the best in terms of price and availability this is also worth something.
@@alexanderhughes1540 Hi. I agree entirely time will tell maybe some of the operators will go out of business or be bought by others. It’s early days yet and may end up like the “big 6” energy suppliers. It’s also very interesting to note when digging a bit deeper as to who owns particular charging networks……
It's all about capitalism in Britain
What's the source for the 50mpg average for an ICE? Seems pretty dubious to me...
For the petrol/diesel cost, definitely think the service area cost is better comparison
That's UK mpg, not US mpg...
I've yet to get 50mpg out of a tank of fuel ... admittedly I may be a little heavy footed and my most recently registered vehicle is a 09 reg (I had a 58 reg in 2012, but blown engines and gearboxs in a number of cars have resulted in me getting increasingly older cars since)
So whilst an ev would cost less to run, the outlay to purchase is too high ... and when you have debts, borrowing to invest in solar or an ev isn't really an option, so you are left with higher running costs and thus less ability to pay down debts ...
So whilst this video is interesting, I'm not sure the transition to evs is only hampered by inability to charge at home, but by the higher capital cost. I can see second hand evs have come down in price, but they still have a premium if you want more than a local runabout
@@tomwinch9107 Tesla Model S £12k with 90k miles (nothing really) and free supercharging. Ford Fiesta prices
The cheapest fuel in my area according to Google is £1.33.9 to £1.36.9 but I am surprised you went with 50 mpg that seems to me very optimistic
So is 3.5miles per kWh as an average.
But is it "the whiteboard of truth?" 50mpg seems very optimistic for petrol, unless that includes new cars only. And why no mention of Tesla prices for Teslas?
He specifically said it was the overall average for both petrol and diesel "according to many sources" (as was the fuel pricing "according to the RAC").
These days I rarely use a rapid network, I charge at home overnight, my i3 Rex does most journeys I need on EV power.
However now when I’m travelling a bit further than its range, I find it’s cheaper to complete the journey on Rex than use the rapid network.
For me I find I’m fortunate to be able to do this, as it works well for me..
Here is my take on charging in the UK after having been here for 3 weeks. Its all over the place price wise. Ive paid 51p for curbside charging, I’ve paid 79p for DC charging at Gridserve and 41p at Tesla
Thanks for counter-balancing the biased mainstream media and motoring channels
If Tesla chargers are available on your journey - use them.
Shame there aren't more
Unless your charge port is on the “wrong” side 😉
@@soapyfrog By a proper EV...Tesla
This summer we used ionity passport, which for roughly £10 a month gives you much cheaper charging. About 25p/kWh. And you can cancel it after only a month if need be.
At 4:15 of the video why did you not include the Tesla charging price for Tesla's? They are the most popular model of BEV after all.
I love my EV - but if I had to use the charging network it would have been sold by now. There simply has to be a premium to going through the hassle of network charging - No-one would put up with it and pay as much or more for petrol/diesel that you can fill up and enjoy much bigger ranges. My 7p rate with Octopus Intelligent is an absolute must else down the road it goes (or not...)
You mention each Rapid Charger costs £20k, What about Fuel Pump & Support & Upkeep. There is a bigger issue that a lot of EV installations are suffering from & it is the FAT COW of their local Council taking the P1SS and asking the EV installer to PONY up extras like complete area substation upgrades including all associated cabling, that just happen to suit the council very well, as it means they can also replace the entire towns cables in the process, you get my gist. Why is the GRID not upgrading itself. Especially if it wants to provide EV chargers ?
Anybody else with an ev get a letter to say they would have to pay VED (car tax) from next year. Something like £190 per year for my Tesla. And meanwhile my wife’s diesel golf is only £25 per year. I’m sick of the government taking the piss.
@@dirkdiggler69 yes, this has been in the world for at least the last 12 months if not longer.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your wifes diesel is going up to £190 a year, too.
Just ordered my first EV so this video is really useful. Thankfully I can charge at home so most journeys should be reasonably cheap. What’s the difference in rapid charging costs in the EU?
Thanks for the summary. It’s part why I’ve stopped using the leaf for long journeys - that and the gridserve Chademo policy. We still
use the leaf for local journeys, but I’ve bought a new (to me) petrol for long journeys.
Have you looked at planning your long journeys with the Leaf using A Better Route Planner? It may give you clever options.
Good comparison. I pay 43p at Ionity for a fee of £4.99 a month (Renault Mobize) .. I have a backup with BP Pulse at 57p
Is there any ionity next to your home or Workplace 🤨
@@niceboy60 yep - BP Pu;lse in the next village, Ionity within 10mils. No Tesla for 50miles
At that rate, EVs are more expensive than petrol cars with a big engine, in addition to the higher depreciation of EVs.
@@ComeJesusChrist it is £50 a month cheaper than my previous diesel.
@@mdshovel I don’t know what model you have or replaced, but 43p per kWh works out, at around 3 miles per kWh with a recent EV in average use and moderate speed/heating/AC, to cost £9 to cover 62m/100km. At the current price of diesel of around £1.35, a vehicle averaging 50mpg (5.65l per 100km) would cost £7.63 or so to do the same. That doesn’t include the annual membership fee of the EV ‘clubs’ to get the lower rate. Also, any recent EV would face a significantly higher rate of depreciation than a comparable diesel.
I can’t charge at home but still have an EV (Tesla M3) and still save money. 30% of my charging is free at my local Sainsbury’s. The rest is Tesla Supercharging. I average about 4 miles/kWh like you. So I don’t like to hear that it’s “not good to have an EV if you can’t charge at home”. It’s more nuanced than that.
Just as an example from across the channel in Francewhere I live, one national charging company is presently charging 25cents per kw, ie £0.21 per KW... IE Charge is their name look at their website. If they can do it why can't others? Their niche is that they build their chargers just off main routes, directly next to existing distribution centres of EDF on farm or waste land which is cheap and provide no other facilities....
Instavolt used to be my preferred chargers, always reliable, reasonably priced but they have since become one of the most expensive. Looking at how the company profits have increased over the last few years its pretty clear they are fully ripping off their customers
Tesla have stated that their charging network is nut subsidised by the car business, and also that they are there to make a profit (and I believe this is included in their latest set of results).
Don't forget it's not free to build a petrol station on the motorway, and also transportation of petrol and diesel to these services which isn't a one off in the way that installing cabling to the EV chargers.
What you say also confirms that efficiency and a large battery are the way to go to avoid the need to charge away from home unless absolutely necessary. Lets hope the government don't add fuel duty to EV charger prices as we'd be looking at an additional cost there.
Most Pod Points at lidl have been taken over by lidl and are cheaper if you charge from the lidl shopping app. 44p I believe near me otherwise 65p/kWh if not using the lidl app.
I am a very new EV owner (Hyundai Kona 2023) and am so pleased with how economic it is to run especially after signing up to for Octopus Intelligent using our Ohme Home Pro charger. (Thanks Andrew for the referral share code giving me £50 credit which I have now received!). Very interesting video but not sure if I am understanding correctly! Does this mean I would be able to charge my Hyundai Kona at a Tesla charging station?? I thought they were for Tesla vehicles only. Would be great if you could let me know.
Alison
Recently I did a return journey from North Wales to Drumnadrochit near Inverness The efficiency was compromised by carrying two big electric bikes on a rear carrier. So I averaged 2.6 miles/kWh.
Did 3 charges each way.
5 of the 6 were on Public Tesla. Way cheaper. But they are in some out of the way places, like hotel car parks.
Worth seeking out though.
Id.3 pro 58kWh.
50 mpg sounds very ambitious, our X3 diesel averaged low 30's. My diesel golf 1.6 was in the 40's long term, although that little beauty ran on fumes.
What the hell are you doing to get such low mpg from a diesel?! I get anything from 60 to 80mpg from a 12 year old 1.6 TDI Seat (which will probably be the same, if not a slight variation of the engine in the golf you mentioned.
I get 65 to 70mpg from a 2016 1997cc 150BHP Peugeot 308 (diesel) on average so long as I'm not going at 70 on a motorway the whole time when it would dip to maybe 60mpg, but my peugeot EV only does 3m/kWh and perhaps 2m/kWh in poor winter weather so for me I'm looking at 10p/m diesel against 24p (summer) 36p (winter) per mile in the EV. Fortunately I can charge the EV at home so rarely pay more than 5p/mile and usually 3p/mile otherwise having an EV would make no sense financially. Less than 50mpg in an average diesel car would be awful.
@@CH11LER. short journeys or sat in traffic in very congested West Yorkshire inner cities/M62, I could possibly get 70mpg from the golf on a steady clear run on the motorway.
@simonrichardson3167 Yeah, I can get that. I used to live near j26. It's basically a carpark. This is why a diesel mild hybrid would be the best car until battery tech and charging stations become much much better.
@@mikebarry229 Guess you don't drive in the cold. My old 2012 Golf TDI 2.0 150hp could get 55-60 on longer trips in summer, but on average through the year it was more like 45-46. Short trips in the cold really hurts the average.
My 2020 e-Golf is around 4.8-5.1 depending on conditions in summer and 3-4 in winter depending on conditions and temperature. Short trips in -15C or below really suck the battery dry fast.
I've found my break even is around 55-60p/kWh on these two. All these are converted values as I'm in Norway, so they might not be 100% accurate.
Guy I know charges his ev at free charges around Melbourne Australia. They aren't fast charges and only for a couple of hours at a time, but it gets him an extra 10%
MER have installed three 22kw charge points in Lindley near the Huddersfield Hospital charging 44p kw. However I went there to try them, as my Renault Zoe has a built in 21kw charger, the charge points are shown in their app but could I find any of the three! Nope!! No idea where they are hiding!
It's nice to see someone showing the pricing from a point of view of someone who may not have access to home charging, perhaps you should do a video on destination charging, not that there's any of these in the area I live in, although I will never be able to buy an electric vehicle, I find these videos very informative
Important to note that there are lamppost chargers like Chargy that get decent rates. My local in Southwark gives you £0.39 betweem 00:00 and 07:00, so you can get over 100 miles a night. Podpoint at Tesco can be cheaper or almost as cheap in the day though.
Anyway, if this was France, where you can charge at a supermarket during the day for under 30 cents via Powerdot, there would be no debate over price
But we as a nation subsidise French power via EDF of course
Hardly anyone in a city has home charging, I have to rely on a space outside my house and run a cable out the window......this happens rarely so I'm sticking with Hybrid PHEV for now
PHEVs are the way to go if it's your only car and you just don't want the hassle. 👍
The latest ones have 80 mile range too.
PHEV only make sense if people remember to charge them before each trip otherwise an ICE is more cost effective and environmentally friendly. Sadly most PHEV chargers are relying on regen.
Great video - thank you! Not many TH-camrs cover this subject.
So shorter journeys are going to be cheaper with an EV, but a really long trip will be more, depending on where you can charge and how long you want to wait?
I guess most EV owners will take this hit knowing that home charging is going to be a lot, lot cheaper for 90% of the time.
Totally agree on the fast chargers - we need more of them everywhere!
But on longer journeys you get the first 250+ miles at 2p a mile if you can charge at home. So if you did a 400 mile round trip you'd only pay at the higher public charging rate for 150 miles. Someone else can work out the maths for the total cost and ppm 😂
@@DiscoDesW Totally. Probably 500 miles or so!
I do Syd-Mel-Syd in Australia semi-regularly (610 mi / 980km each way). I start with 100% at home and end up almost empty on the return journey. I charge at home for 8c / kwh. My fist 450km and last 350km cost me 8c/kwh (100% charge at home leaving and 80% top up when I get home) - that's 800km at 1c per km = $8.00, the middle 1160km cost me 8.5c per km using fast chargers $ = 100 which is around what I pay on average for the 4 stops in total. Aggregate cost $108.
E10 fuel (cheapest in Australia) = $1.90 a litre. $108 gets me 57 litres of E10. 1980/57 = 34km per litre = 98mpg (uk) - still far better off with my EV.
Pity we don't have 8c a kw in nz. Might be some at 12c but most around 20c or more plus our 15% gst. I am lucky that being off grid my home charging is free but limited to day charging. But works for us. Use our diesel on long trips. Cheaper and more convenient
If you "follow the money" you will see that there are large financial institutions that are behind the finances for many charge points, Black Rock for instance. They will tell the CPO what they need to charge to get their ROI.
Apps like co-charger are also worth a look. Home owners offering others charging via an App.
I would also argue that suppliers are also fixing prices on their local competition exactly the same as petroleum companies do.
Instavolt from 1st September have a night rate of 54p/kWh.
I’ve no home charger and use fast charging mainly Tesla or InstaVolt between 10pm-6am at 53p. Also use the plug surf card and app
As a smug ICE driver I have achieved 60mpg.
Which carries over to 4.1 m/kwh.
Still a saving of £25 a week
And I still have to learn aggressive regen on zoe’s brake pedal.
I remember when I had a 520d - I could do a journey at 68mpg, but the average over 36k miles (3 years) was 48mpg
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles (50+mpg)
When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery.
I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles.
So if you take the avg ( 44p kwh) uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
@@stuartburns8657 the “if” is the thing. I use the public charging network about 8 times a year all other times I charge at 7p. Hence the £25+ savings per week.
@@SDK2006b and what does the guessometer say in an ev. You can hypermile in anything.
@@SDK2006b Yeah. I previously had a TDI Q5. Official MPG was 55. I would drive in efficiency mode 99% of the time and I think I'm fairly conscious about how I'm driving - coasting where possible, leaving room to avoid constant brake/accelerate cycles, etc. I could occasionally get 55 or more on a long run, but long-term average over thousands of miles was 46.8.
Dearest prices are from what type of company. Oh yes. They sell Dino juice. Funny that. They are also ripping ICE users off compared to other sources. Also no mention of some CPO's having discount offers of subscription to reduce prices.
Please do a total cost of ownership review. Like for like vehicles ie New Tesla Model 3 VS BMW 1 Series, Used Tesla Model 3 VS BMW 1 Series. ect
Thanks for a nice clear video. For those who charge at fine rapid charging rates are essentially subsidised by ridiculously cheap home charging rates. I feel the big area where government should be helping is for those who cannot charge at home.
I’m on my 4th EV now , I’ve had an old Berlingo electric, 24kwh leaf , 40kwh leaf and now I have a LR model 3 . I’ve had no problems with either of them and with winter around the corner, just the preheat makes an EV worth while let alone the massive savings .
Doesn't the pre heat kill the battery completely and therefore any cost advantage? We've only had a couple of cold mornings so far, but my Mercedes EQB only mustered 1mpkWh for a 3 mile journey. Very depressing and dressing the winter.
@@OasisParadise-dt9rh Those things struggle to get 3 mpkwh on a Sunday afternoon drive in summer .
No surprise to see the oil companies with forecourts charging the most. I suspect they also fund most of the anti-EV lobbying too. I’ve saved thousands of pounds in fuel costs alone driving an EV for the last 3+ years, even on long trips away from home. A 2890 mile trip around Europe on the summer cost about £300 in electricity. And on Octopus Agile, they sometimes pay me to fuel my EV!
And its cost you Thousands in depreciation and insurance costs dont kid yourself.
Like any other new car? Mine was a company salary sacrifice for the first 3 years (tax free and insurance included) then purchased at the end of the lease, so a pretty good deal thanks 😊
You also face shocking depreciation and you’ll have to start paying road tax and other fees that EV owners were exempt from.
The maths shows at current assuming no access to home charging its still not cheaper to go ev when charging. If u can home charge having an electric saves so much compared to petrol especially if u can charge only when its cheap at night its the way to go.
Bit of topic but right community over here so just wanted to get the opportunity and ask which charger should i get cause i did a lot of reading and plenty people complaining that they having a lot of problems with them and basically no customer service.Thank you
Would be interesting to see a total cost of ownership comparison including factors like depreciation, servicing cost (including servicing/safety checks of home charger). Hard to do maybe, but might help people make decisions on car type.
maintenance for EV is minimal
You can't beat free charging at work. I'm there every day for 8 hours 😃
Just got back from a trip to Zurich. Ionity in France is approx. €0.51c. Why not here?
Because we stopped investing in Nuclear because of hippies.
@@CaptainProton1 aren’t we building Hinckley C just off the Somerset coast? Well, we’re not investing - that’s true - it’s the French and Chinese, but a guaranteed price for generated electricity of £90/MW when it comes online in 2038 means we’ll be paying ten times for Hinckley C electricity when solar and wind will be £9/MW. Those ‘hippies’ knew a thing or two because the government doesn’t know what to do with the nuclear waste which hangs around for 350,000 years - killing everything around it - before it’s safe. Nope, it’s because business needs to profit from UK consumers.
Hi EVM. So I agree in part where you say the rapid chargers are like service stations and yeah I get it petrol is well expensive there however remember that 45% of the country cannot charge at home and most of them are not going to have access to destination charging. So they are going to have to nip to tesco's and sit on a rapid charger and well lump it. So for example I go to Sainsbo's and get my petrol from there as they are the nearest place. They also have a bunch of rapid chargers. Now I am lucky I have my own drive so yeah I'd be charging 99% at 7p / kWh. If I didn't I'd be going to Sainsbo's to get my electrons while I'm shopping and my charging costs would be more than a petrol/diesel. So yeah super for 55% of households. Bad news for 45%
This is exactly the issue I see. If I travel a good distance to see family or friends I'll have to sit in a car park waiting for the EV to charge. It's just not something I want to do.
As for the 45%, the government is pushing EVs but hasn't figured out what to do for the 45%. I won't hold my breath.
@@sargfowler9603 and your family and friends might get a bit annoyed when you started walking over with an extension lead and a granny charger 🤣
Exactly. There is a type of 'I'm alright Jack' snobbery from EV owners.
95%+ can home charge.
Some (many) will be forced to use an EV work due to BIK advantage.
For everyone that can't, it's nearly as expensive as a high mpg ICE, with the 'benefit' of being less convenient.
How many happy non charge at home owners do you know, or have ever met?
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles (50+mpg)
When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery.
I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles.
So if you take the avg ( 44p kwh) uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
Why lamp post chargers outside your house can’t be set up to use your home tariff I don’t know - should be pretty easy.
My SLK has averaged 30 mpg over 15k miles and I always drive within the speed limit. I used to average 4 mpkwh with a Renault Zoe ZE40. In that case the Zoe is cheaper full stop however I charged but I was very bored with it. There are some other factors such as difference in road tax and the SLK unbelievably only costing half as much to insure,
Sounds like you where running a stupidly inefficient car then no?
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles (50+mpg)
When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery.
I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles.
So if you take the avg ( 44p kwh) uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
@@stuartburns8657 I don't actually care that my car is a bit thirsty, it is twelve years old, has been totally reliable and is barely depreciating. I sold the Zoe in 2020 and it's worth less than half what I sold it for now, that's way more than the cost of fuel. I like my SLK because it's convertible, I'll buy another EV one day but not yet.
@@stuartburns8657 I forgot to add that your points are correct
@@robsmith1a It's a very subjective and personal thing obviously moving to an EV.
We are holding onto the Nissan, it's in good health, long since paid off and we don't do enough miles now kids are at college to get value out of an EV, despite being able to home charge
1.75ppm would be true if you plugged in from a 13amp wall socket..... but you have a charger, battery storage, solar panels and inverter to add to the price? not to mention the price of the car?
Thanks for the video, it answered my question perfectly, as someone who has moved out of a house into a flat I cannot see the benefit if you take away the tree hugging angle (Which definitely has merit). There has to be something put out there for the other 45% of operators to make it more economical if we all are expected to change over.
We could only dream of 50mpg before we moved to an EV. Our Merc did 29mpg.
My Prius does 70 and never needs charging. You had the wrong car. There are loads of Hybrids, Diesels and even Petrols today that get between 45-70mpg.
@@tokoloshimampara9932 Charge your ev with...petrol. It's like charging an ebike by pedalling :(
@CaptainProton1 Funny, you say that because I have an e-bile and guess what, when the battery is exhausted, I can indeed pedal home. It's called having a backup plan 🤣
I thought that Morrisons were starting to install their own chargers and Sainbury’s to, which should be competitive as they they own the sites
50 mpg sounds a bit optimistic for an average figure. Yes, there are cars that can do 60 or more mpg but there probably more cars which do rather less - particularly in real usage. Most of my ICE vehicles have done well under 50 mpg overall.
I like this kind of analysis. I did them when I switch to an EV. My car used 5.7l/100km, my EV is around 154wh/100km. Gas now stands at 1.4€/l and the worst case for a rapid charger around is a 0.45€/kw. That's over a 1.5€ saving if I were to always use the most expensive charger. Since most of the time I charge for free at work or from my solar array the cost is close to nothing. I've already saved way more money than what I paid extra for my EV 4 years ago.
Maintenance of vehicles isn't cheap but it's generally cheaper by a long way for run of the mill stuff if you do the miles.
Also as an EV needs less standard maintenance then that's less off the road time.
I would take an EV for those reasons if the fuel costs were at worst comparable.
You’ll only realise and materialise the higher depreciation of EVs when you sell the vehicle and try to purchase your next vehicle.
Where are you getting 50 mpg on the ICE vehicle? Here in the US average vehicle efficiency is less than half of that.
UK gallon is different to US gallon. Hence why people need to switch to metric :)
There’s a couple of Tesla superchargers open to all CCS cars charging 90p at “peak times”. Havant & Tottenham
Tesla Tottenham is no longer open to all. EDIT - It's still showing as open to all in the App.
@@DiscoDesW I believe it’s changing to Tesla only in the near future
And on short hops my 1800 Skoda does approx 16 mpg on choke - Renault approx 250-500 watts
But there are still tons of people that could charge at home. And as you show, it makes much sense financially even if they have to charge on a fast charger now and then.
With the release of the new M3 RWD long range, this video was very interesting to me. I've had my S3 for 13 years and cus of the way I had it mapped and the fuel I now use, mine is around 23p per mile averaged. I still want a Tesla, however cannot charge at home and that really pisses me off. I'd be on the supercharger all the time. So annoying. I just don't have enough to move either. Anyway, great video, thx for the info 😄👍🏻
You also need to add charging losses to the calculations which can be 12% - 15% . If you buy 50 litres of petrol - you get 50 litres in your tank. However if you buy 50kw/h of electricity - you would get 42.5 - 44kw/h in your battery.
I don't think 50mpg is a realistic average figure for petrol cars, a quick Internet rummage suggests 36 is more likely and certainly more in keeping with my experience. And my only experience of charge place Scotland was last week and worked perfectly well through the electroverse app.
True but every fossilsaur claims that their car does 200 miles per gallon and can run non-stop for a month on a tankful which only cost them three groats.
3.5 miles per kWh is also delusional as an average, especially when the heating or air conditioning is on, when driving at motorway speed and forget towing. There are plenty of diesel and even petrol cars that average 50. I’ve averaged better than 36 in old, six cylinder E-Class estates, supercharged petrol Mercedes and most of my other cars.
Home charging is essential. If you can't charge at home you may as well stick to ice.
Totally, can't imagine it working without home charging.
But that does leave around half the population without home charging. Not sure what the government is going to do about it.
It might with a Tesla. But rapid charging all the time isn't a great idea for the battery.
That might depend on (for example) whether you had access to workplace charging, or used a competitively priced subscription service. My local charge network is priced at 45p per kwh if you use one of the subscription rates they offer...
@@FFVoyager Neither is it as bad as some may have you believe. The newer LFP batteries are superior in this respect...
@@Brian-om2hh not really for rapid charging though?
50 mpg (5.23L per 100km)? Seems extraordinarily high to me. It's sounds like the average of the official fuel consumption figures which very few cars get in the real world. Anyway - bottom line, we have to make charging more affordable for those without roadside access to power.
I have a EV Hybrid both Electric and Gas, My average charge overnight form empty only costs me $4.30 U.S. Dollars basically I am Getting $0.30 Cents per Mile.
I will never charge my car with a Rapid Charging Station near me it is over 10x Times More than Home Charging at this point it is worse then a Gas per Mile.
With my EV I can choose when to use Electric or Gas or Both , and Only buy Gas when it Goes Down to a price I think Is Fair and I bring my Own Charging Cord with me!
It’s not just about whether you can charge at home, it’s also about the range.
With your Tesla you can charge at home, and probably get to your destination on a long journey without needing to charge en-route.
But with a much more affordable car you maybe get a 150 mile range at motorway speeds, and then all your remaining miles have to be at expensive rapid chargers :-( Plus if you can’t charge at your destination, then the whole trip home is funded by rapid chargers.
I desperately want an EV, and I intend to get one in the next couple of years, but looking at what I can afford on the second hand market the range is realistically going to be on the low end, and I have to suck it up that all my long journeys will be more expensive than my existing ICE car :-(
£12k for Konas these days seems reasonable?
@@Biggest-dh1vr true, that will work for many people.
Unfortunately I need something bigger (e.g. an e-Berlingo) so the same problem applies to me for slightly different reasons. There’s nothing yet available under £20k at that size that can do more than 140-150 motorway miles. Maybe when the ID Buzz gets cheap enough second hand? But I think that will take a few years to get under £20k.
Incidentally, I have very few friends who have ever paid more than £5k for a car. The range is more limited at the lower price points. I think having expensive rapid charging is going to affect quite a lot of people for quite a while to come.
I'm in the same boat. I could probably afford a used Leaf in a few months which would mean local trips only. My Honda civic hybrid which did 48mpg has gone to the great car place in the sky.
something else to consider is depreciation and insurance cost, my EV insurance was £550 last year, it is over £2000 this year for the same cover
weird, my Tesla model y dual motor renewal is £720 for private use, 8k miles per year. It's a similar figure to last year.
@@simonrichardson3167 mine is an ORA funky cat with hideous depreciation, list price £32500 insurance value at one year old £13500, my mileage is 5K a year with no accidents or convictions and an OAP
Peeps really need to know how much you save with an EV so they can decide if it is worth switching.. seems like a no brainer to me if you can charge at home on cheap rate let alone the savings of cost of ownership make it an even better choice. Be nice to have vid on cost of ownership ❤
Further to your suggestion that the £1.45 per litre fuel price might well be subsidised by the various supermarkets, last year's IMF Report covering 2022 identifies the value of the tax breaks and subsidies handed out by Governments around the world to the Oil Industry.
Taking the UK's figures, total tax breaks and subsidies came to the value of just under £57 BILLION in 2022.
£14.5 BILLION of that was classed as "Explicit Subsidies", essentially discounting the cost of fuel on the forecourt, compared to the real cost of exploration, drilling, refining, transporting and distributing of the oil / fuel.
Those are some BIG numbers, eh...!! 😵
We now have 2 EVs, and home charging is great for everyday journeys, long journeys tbh we try and take train as it's easier and more relaxed than motorway miles and cheaper than both petrol and fast charging. Medium journeys hillwalking Scottish mountains I use charge place Scotland where I can as cheaper than other places (generally about £9 to charge my e-Golf.
So basically a phev which home charges for the daily school run, and uses a petrol engine for the weekend trip to the lakes is the cheapest option.
(Discounting servicing, depreciation costs etc).
Or, if you are a two car family, buy a short range EV and keep your old diesel for the long trips.
PHEV's are much more expensive than petrol or diesel so it might take a while to make your money back.
@@alibro7512 Not always, some manufacturers are selling them really, really cheap. The resale is pretty good too!
This is a hard one to work out as there must be a break even point on a journey where your first 200 miles are very cheap, the 2nd leg very expensive.
The ideal situation is to have free chargers at hotels and all your friends/family have a home charger too!
@@sargfowler9603 your friends/family have electricity already - you just need to be able to park close enough to plug in and stay for a day while the granny charger does it's thing.
realistically, people can’t expect the cost of charging an EV to be too much lower than for ice. There’s a large amount of costs embedded in terms of equipment and support costs. Plus the companies have to make a profit.. charging at home will save money especially if you do it at the lowest tariff
Tesla manage to charge much less in most locations and still make a profit from their charging business. The other networks are taking us for a ride. Probably because so many business users are price insensitive and just expense whatever the cost is. Shop around when you can.
Being very kind to ICE there with 50mpg - Petrol seems to be about 37mpg average and diesel 45mpg if you are lucky...
3.5 miles per kWh is optimistic as an average for EVs and throughout the year, using heating, air conditioning or driving at higher speed, even the newest and most efficient EVs will struggle to achieve that.
46p per kWh is doable as a public charging cost, but you need to register and pay a membership fee, so you may actually have to add around £100 to the annual cost and dividend it again.
Fuel is currently below £1.45, but I accept that it may increase, just as electricity will certainly rise in cost.
Some petrol or even diesel cars may struggle to achieve the 50mpg average. It really comes down to comparing like for like. A Porsche Taycan or Audi E-torn should be compared to something suitable, like the A5, 5 series, E-Class or whatever Mercedes replaced the CLS with. A small EV should be compared to a small petrol car.
I wouldn’t want an EV.