Risto Mononen Easily said if you aren't a leader. It's extremely difficult to be selfless, I'd say it's pretty likely the great leaders who aren't known, are unknown not by choice but by circumstance.
1. Wait them out (they get promoted, transfer or get another job). 2. Transfer. 3. Get another job. 4. Wait and see if more coworkers or even upper management notices their unprofessional, counterproductive behavior. If enough see it, then you can together address it with upper authority. Making them look good?... They don't care. I tried that, and was sincere when I crowed good things about my manager to her superiors. She just saw my compliments and helpful-communication as a sign of weakness. Real narc.
@@mrpoosteak life is good . So the story is this certain nco was telling me to do one thing while the other nco was telling me to do another . I was a brand new private and the two ncos did not like eachother . One was telling me that the other was a shit bag and would defend me if he tried to do anything to me . So after going back and fourth between nco 1 and nco 2 , nco 2 ( who was the one who made me write the paper ) screamed at me infront of a company of my peers and told me fuck off . I said roger and walked away and I turned and looked back at him . When I did he said I gave him a look with attitude . I was then immeditely pushed and cornered into a set of wall lockers while he cussed in my face and asked me to do something about it . I crunched my fists in defiance and In stupidity . He got the other ncos together and nco 1 did not stick up for me . Him and 6 other ncos rotated turns smoking the dog shit out of me for 8 hours and then had me write a 2000 word essay on the importance of respecting NCOS . I pretty much wrote what jocko said and he wripped the paper up and then got our psg involved and we handled it on that level . There was absolutely mistakes made on both sides. I could’ve simply gone to parade rest and said roger sgt and then not looked back . He could have handled things better on his end . At the end of the day we both learned from our mistakes and I am a better solider from it . If I can give advice to any new private who is dealing with a similar situation is that always just go to parade rest and take the blame and say roger . 99.9% of the time the fuckery will stop there
I did that with my boss for years. I would defend him when people would question him. I would reformat reports when he would do an extremely shoddy jobs so he wouldn't be embarrassed. I would do my job so well that it would cover any of his deficiencies he had and make him look like an excellent leader. I thought it would make him value my opinion and bring me in as an ally. We had big wins together but when it came down to it, he didnt care about anyone but himself. He took credit for everything and blamed everyone if things went wrong. He was so sheltered by us as a team that when things went wrong and it required him to step up, he had no clue. And if you tried to suggest a direction, he was the kind to take pleasure in shutting it down. He also had zero principles so he was not averse to bullying, humiliating, side lining and frustrating people. He would say the sky is green today and say the sky is red tomorrow. He is a duplicitous and untrustworthy leader.
Yes...and also what's missing in the video is the toll this takes on your psyche. To say that it's ego puts the blame on the victim, that's too black and white.. If you are constantly catering to someone like that, your boundaries are flawed, and you lose self-respect. It will break you down. You lose confidence. All the while, you expect some kind of "payout" that never comes. In a way, that's manipulative, sneaky and underhanded, and at worst, inauthentic. Being inauthentic not only alienates others, potentially, but it alienates yourself from yourself, and you know it...eventually you don't even know who you are anymore.
@@MindyZielfelderArt holy shit, it like you put into words what I am experiencing so perfectly. The physiological toll being under a truly sociopathic leader who does not know/refuses to learn how to do their job, gas lights to the extreme, changes goal posts constantly, is truest humiliating and mean, and does appreciate any work that has ever been done no matter how much you do is something most people can’t truly can’t comprehend unless they have experienced it. Stay strong, best of luck to you.
if he has ego, this works better. if you have an idea on how to do something better you can approach him and say "i had this idea, i kinda got it from something you said... blah blah blah" because his ego is huge, he will value it and see you as someone to keep around.
Some things can't be worked out. That's when you need to leave. Given that you've been wise and did your best to work with that situation, or consider that this is not worth your efforts. Then leave.
I just called my boss out for being a bully with no tact in his approach. He comes at you talkin out the side of his face. Never straight. He enjoys picking on two other employees, he curses at them and throws shit at them while on break. I got tired of seeing it. This kid is fresh out of highschool. I jumped down his throat about his shitty leadership and lack of professionalism. We had a heated argument outside. I called em a fuckin punk for picking on those who are smaller and too passive for their own good. He tried doin that shit with me, but that ended real fast. After I called his ass out for being a fucking jerk. He exercised his power and sent me home. Now I gotta make a stupid ass statement. I also spoke on behalf of the other two guys. Great guys too. This situation may not be like the one in this video, but some motherfuckers need no empathy. I aint stroking no mans ego that messes with others. Even Jesus said; Do not cast pearls to swine. No one should have to go through this kind of shit in a place of business and profession. If I lose my job, at least I can walk out with my head up. If my words or witnesses evoke anger in him to try something, he can catch these hands too. Its not just about me, I genueanly felt bad for my peers. I felt embarrassed for them.
I am a retired special operations SNCO and have run into all types of people in positions of power and authority (note I did NOT say leader...just because you occupy a position of power and authority does NOT make you a leader......if you think you are a leader then you need to turn around to see if anyone is following you...if not, then you are no leader). As Jocko alluded to - the first thing you must understand is your relative position on the food chain. You have to be very aware of your position powers and authorities or lack there of....do not operate outside of your position powers and authorities. Understand that there will be times that a person above you has been promoted "to a level of incompetence"....this is to say that the person in that position of power may have no business being in the position they are....but they are and you have a mission to take care of. I ran into this in my career, mainly on the enlisted side, however, also running into officers that had been promoted in rank (typically O-5 and above) and as a result placed in positions of great responsibility, yet were clearly ill-equipt to perform at that level. This is where it gets tricky in my opion. If you are below a person that is in over their head yet you wield some degree of position power and authority...i.e you are a manager, team leader, work leader....then you have a responsibility to not only "mentor up", but also mentor your subordinates through this time of adversity. You also have a responsibility to keep things positive amongst other managers/team leads/work leads in the organization....ill feelings towards a person in power can spread quickly and be ruinous to an organization. The trick is to keep the person in power from nose diving the operation and taking you all down with him/her. As Jocko stated - this is the art of influence and the art of influence, in my opinion, is a skill acquired over time through great mentorship. However, there is also the situation where you are simply in a position that does not wield any position power or authority. This is a VERY hard place to be in as you are completely at the whim of the person in power. In this situation, you are basically in survival mode - which is to say "can I survive the tenure of this person with my career intact"? It is in this situation were one focuses on doing their specific job as well as possible and ignore everything else going on around you...be the proverbial "gray man". In this cases like this, my recommendation is to document, document, document......In my previous life, we would frequently craft "Memorandums For Record" (dated the day written and wet signature on each document) that spelled out a situation or was a running catalog of an ongoing situation in the event that the issue came to a head. If push comes to shove you need to be able to walk into the commander/first sergeant's office and have a detailed history of what has occurred and what you have done, if anything, about the situation. It is always better to try to resolve issues at the lowest levels, but sometimes that is not possible, however, walking into leadership office (HR if civilian) with no documented specifics to start from is a kiss of death. I think what Jocko says about building a relationship is good but it is certainly dependant on the person you are dealing with...a relationship may not be possible and I have been in that exact situation. If the person is a true leader he/she will listen to the subordinates and make course adjustments based on that input...especially from the leaders and management team directly beneath them that respectfully, unemotionally and professionally tabled their concerns or feedback. However, you have people that believe they are the smartest people in the room as a function of the promotion or the position they hold.....they think that the promotion is validation that they are the smartest, most capable person in the room and how would you possibly know better. It is in this situation that, in my opinion, a productive relationship is not very likely. It is in this situation where one has to simply survive the tenure of the tyrant. But, again...this is not something learned in a book....handling these issues come down to experience and in some cases, it is the bad experience that teaches the most. Good luck to anyone who is dealing with a bad boss. I dealt with a bad SNCO from 2006 - 2010 and then a bad LtCol from 2012 - 2014 ...I survived both and retired in 2014 with my reputation and honor fully in tack and I did not compromise anything...I just played the game better.
Plenty of solid truth in this comment! Especially like the memorandums for record idea and think I will use that when needed. If you disagree with your boss/manager/supervisor, have a conversation discussing the concern, then document. If shit hits the fan and they try to throw you under the bus, then you pull out the memorandum and state exactly what happened and when.
Nice words, but having lived through this in the civilian world my advice is “don’t try”. What you recommend above is good advice and should be your plan of action while you secure another job. However, if you get to this point you’re already in the red flag domain. Also, be really wary of “my word versus my boss’”. You’ll find truly sick people who have made it into these positions purely by luck -Darwinism. They’ll have sixth and seventh senses for not documenting their critical offenses and for manipulating others. They’ll keep everything quiet, collecting information on your personality until they blindside you. They will break you and create a hostile work environment; you’ll notice that they’ve escalated things to the point that there is no productive recourse through HR, that haven’t documented anything leading up to their egregious behavior, and that it’ll end up being your word versus theirs. Even if HR believes you, people are great at changing how the situation is interpreted - “oh yes, that’s what I said, but I meant it in this other positive way!” Of course the company will give your boss the benefit of the doubt - he’s higher on the food chain than you! Chances are they’ll recalibrate and put you on the slow burn again. So, to all above, start searching for another job. That’s my recommendation. You can’t control other people.
I did this for a year and a half. I don't wanna play the game anymore, so I'm leaving. I'm happy to have learned what I can about what not to do. Time to go back to where leadership can teach me the right way to do things.
When I became a commander of a signal company, one of the SFCs did this very thing with me. He made me look like a rock star! When the Full Bird would grill me, I simply answered what this E-7 stated he saw as "coming down the pipe" and his recommended solution during planning sessions with him & the 1SG. I learned more from him with regards to interpersonal skills, leadership, and running operations than any senior officer "mentor" or school house has ever taught me. He was the single biggest factor to that unit exceeding standards on multiple fronts. Solid advice sir. Please keep it coming.
Just the TOPIC I have been currently dealing with the past few weeks. I am a surgical tech assisting surgeons in the operating room. Not all, but some doctors have overly inflated egos and are prone to literally throwing temper tantrums over very minor issues when they don't get their way. As a fellow military veteran I am accustomed to expecting higher-ranking individuals to demonstrate more grit and emotional control/intelligence. Seeing these grown, "educated" men behave like bratty two-year olds has become utterly ridiculous. I've discussed some of these experiences with my brother, also a vet (Marine) and we concluded that "bosses" who are petty and childish in their attempt to come off as intimidating to their employees are actually demonstrating weakness.
Xian Aten Overman As a Marine Corps veteran I agree I believe we have a different perspective on what pressure, trouble and tragedy are A more disciplined and less emotional approach to such things Keep focused Brother
DimensionZombie, Thanks Bro. Means a lot. As military men we just concern ourselves with accomplishing the mission at hand with what we have available.
Tough to do if you're dealing with a narcissist. If you ever have to engage with a narcissist, no game, no tactic and no formula will allow you to win, covert or otherwise because they're not playing the game you are. They're not on the same planet with the same rules as you. My wife works for one. These people can't see the forest through the trees. Too tied up in what the deal is for THEM and they'll say they have your back or that you're important but not to a narcissist. There's only THEIR way or the highway. And sometimes the highway can be a valid and affirming choice. People don't leave jobs. They leave managers. RESPECT YOURSELF enough to realize the moment you will never win and take your skills elsewhere. Don't give up, but know when you create your Exodus.
Dealing with this with my new manager. It is tough because our previous manager (who is still here, just in the director position) was such a great leader. To contrast the previous manager to the current one is like night and day. Still adjusting. I can't stay here long term but need to stay long enough to qualify for higher level roles and I land a new job. To me that is playing the game. You don't need to stay with a terrible boss forever. Make a plan, work towards it and find it in you (despite how pissed off they may get you) to be professional. You control how you respond to situations.
A brilliant insight from Jocko - It’s your ego that prevents you from respecting others. We should all remember that when we feel we can’t respect someone else.
I agree with indirect methods when dealing with bad bosses, but only if the timing is right e.g. if you have something good to gain. Sometimes it’s wiser to cut the losses and leave the ’bad boss playing field’. Life is too short for nonsense.
Encountered a similar situation three years ago. The new leader refused to learn any thing or take advice. Ended up costing the company $700,000 and he left the company. Sometimes poor leaders need to be replaced swiftly before damage is done.
Civil engineer in a small business. Last year a senior employee who carried the company left due to frustration with the boss. 2 new employees have come and gone, and my boss and his new senior are not managing things well and have become increasingly nasty. All the workers are extremely frustrated. Ive stopped caring and am looking for better opportunities. I think may be watching someone destroy a company they spent their life building.
I’ve been following this advice for a couple of months now. It’s killing me, but I’m continuing forward by checking my ego. My ego wants to put him in a Rear naked choke..I’m finding that the more I do, the way less he does. Recently I had to draw the line because my boss began texting me for work related shit late at night while I’m at home. (Like 0300 hours) I’ll stay down the path. However, I’m estimating this type of person will not vouch or support me. He’s all “smoke and mirrors” and what I’m learning. I’m learning that he’s talented at convincing people he knows more than he does. Yet, I’m continuing to follow this advice..
@@nerminc.1713 I have to say that many times this advice has saved me from embarrassing myself…and just a few instances someone needed that “gut check” So now I approach instances when I generally won’t and learn how to mitigate a problem or completely solve one with a more objective view point.
I work in a very similar situation to the one discussed in this video. However, I think this only applies to a boss you deem "respectable". When I started at my job we had a very intelligent boss who recognized the hard work and innovation done and made us aware of the short falls of our crew and helped correct them (even when resisted). A year later he left and was replaced by an outsider with no experience (we were not notified of the opening). The current boss has no desire/ability to learn and has gradually shifted his responsibilities down to the workers. He spends little time at work, has no transparency and only interacts with the crew when he needs favours like OT. To further the damage he has done the company he has hired friends of his and created a culture of nepotism which is making experienced workers who are actually doing the bulk of his job looking for other employment. I don't feel that following the advice laid out in this video could have resulted in a different present, the fault is that it assumes the superior is willing to learn. I think this is a case of upper management (who show the same traits of laziness) failing to correct their own mistake and not seeing the long term effects it will have.
His example here is more rare. The norm today are leaders who are on a self-mission and could care less whether their work ants help them or put them in a good light. I take issue with him not pointing out that his advice is for the rare situation for when you have a sane, mentally stable manager. So, making it sound like a mutual ego struggle is not helpful to a real victim.
@betsy. Yes. I've worked for the physical boss that wasn't willing to learn too and know all to well the abuse and mental stress put on their subordinates. However, I actually think that type of boss is in the minority and the more common types of "problem bosses" are one's that are willing to change when you implement Jocko's advice. My one psycho boss I used to work for, I left the job after 6 years and I couldn't be happier.
You can help egoistic boss as much you can. They will not give you credit for it. They eventually will see you as more smart and more hard working as they are and they will get rid of you.
Yep. If they are headstrong and narcissistic, they'll treat you like their bitch if you lay out the red carpet for them. I had a new boss come in and take my ideas to the boss and claim as his own. He was openly praised in a meeting for my ideas and as the manager was praising him, the new boss looks at me and smiles knowing that I know I just got him all that
riling True. I'm having a hard time with Jocko's advice on this one. I guess my ego won't let me bow to someone undeserving, but I'd rather get fired than let my boss steal my ideas and claim my hard work.
Servant Leadership is the way forward. After 25 plus years in management, I've tried a variety of styles and approaches. Thinking on your feet will naturally provide solutions but at some point, your ego will get in the way. Also, if you lead by serving, no one will be able to challenge you with any level of success. Be on the lookout for those who are unable to follow. These are usually the ones who talk a big game and don't produce squat. A good team will follow you as you serve them and the stragglers will never be able to keep up. If you embrace this method, prepare to be exhausted from it. But, it will pay off in time. I'm still experimenting with it and it has challenged me, but it is worth looking into. Some work cultures however, may be too poisoned or embedded in old thought and will just use you more than they do now. Eyes open....head on a swivel ! Edit: This is not from a religious motivation but to each his own. It's just real life experience. Good luck.
Law 1 and its a frequently reoccurring trope through out the book. Just a key part of general mental warfare in most superior-subordinate relationships you see in life.
Serious lack of people with overarching perspective in this comment section, who are feelings driven with massive egos. I'm glad they're hearing what you have to say, rather than people just here that already know how the world works, and that winning isn't always about idealistic nonsense or looking good to others. Sometimes you need to play the long game, learn how to deal with variable people on a daily basis, and strike when the time is right. Lots of entitled types in society, that have zero patience, no perspective, and no understanding of what leading really means, and how difficult it actually is.
Apparently I'm wrong. This was super helpful, I'm generally the guy who goes above and beyond and when I have a boss who doesn't recognize my work or can't keep his end of things up, I try to tear them down. I think it's caused me to lose career options in the past and I'll keep it in mind for the future.
This is totally counterintuitive but makes perfect sense. I've definitely failed going ego to ego with higher-ups that I thought were incompetent (been fired that way). Appealing to ego is straight out of the 48 laws of power ("never outshine the master" comes to mind). If you truly want a certain result and it's not about your own ego, then you open a creative doorway to approach that person and coax / Jedi mind trick them into supporting the appropriate action. Because after all, it's the result that matters and not the recognition. Great question and great advice.
The real question i have for you, is are you happier now, in your new career path, than you were before, when dealing with this issue? Part of me likes this idea that Jocko is talking about and I may give it a go... but I also think that an egotistical boss, who doesn't know his shit, and tries to throw you under the bus. Can also lead to STRESS. And Stress, overall, is not healthy in the long run. Life's too short to be stressed out because of someone else's ego. I have respect for everyone I meet initially. However, If you try to run me down, or don't value my work at all and talk to me in a demeaning way. (and i bust my ass at every job I do so i know my own value.) Then what is the end result of "sticking it out" and making him look good?? Will it get YOU anywhere? Or will it just make him look good. At the end of the day. I think sometimes, you have to measure weather or not you are happy. Because being stressed out every day can shorten your life. Sometimes, it's just not worth it. It's a gamble. Stick it out? or look for new opportunities?
Adding to this, if you're gonna build that relationship, it is always in your benefit to do it from a good heart. If you can't put your ego aside and find reasons to respect them (no matter how little) and come up with your own positive motivations to work alongside this person, it'll blow up in your face. Fighting ego with (strategic) ego never works as well. Being tactical and cunning can be even more draining and difficult than being genuine.
I find this to be mostly true. You can do this with all types of horrible bosses and be successful except one: those who lack moral integrity. I can even deal with the incompetent, but, if at every turn they are backstabbing a**hats, there seems to be no win.
AGREED! How can this work for you in the long run if you do the hard work and then they take the credit for themselves and lacks the integrity to share the wins. As a leader for my team, I want my people to have their wins so that they can win as well. I agree this works only if they have integrity. On the flip side - this man has had months to learn the efforts I trained him, shared the information, even did what Jocko said and I’m at the point now that I feel it’s causing more harm than doing good for the overall team.
Enjoyed your podcast and the talks with Joe Rogan. You said: “Let me learn something from them”: That is the most effective strategy! What you learn doesn’t always need to be related to work. I have learned positive things about how a manager deals with a significant other or his kids, which in turn, lead me to a better understanding of his methodology. It’s important to look to other aspects of life to break through those layers rather than a pure focus on the daily tasks. Then you are able to find that common ground which could translate to the Sun Tzu concept of terrain. When you clearly see the terrain that another person resides upon, you can support their strengths. If you outwardly illuminate a weakness, you force them to defend their position; usually at your expense. Support your bosses strengths while covertly reinforcing their weaker areas like a silent and patient engineer. Then you get to that magical realization: “this guy sort of sucks, BUT I understand it; AND he’s actually not a bad guy!” This process then becomes fun; especially when your boss comes to ask you for advice. That is when you know that your operation is taking shape. Then in your own mind you know that you are becoming more of an equal; a teammate rather than subordinate. When you make an effort to understand others there is a subtle transition towards your own personal improvement. I like to call it “calculated empathy.” Through this process you are able to open your mind to gain diverse insight while still remaining strong in the core of your beliefs. Yet, for some unfortunate people, your boss might still just be a totally delusional, obsolete and egomaniacal piece of shit and you just accept it and eventually move on!
I have learned so much from Jacko. I have read all of his books & listen to a number of podcasts. Jacko Sorry we are not similar in age or you weren't around with your knowledge you have now then . By the way unfortunately grew up in Coronado in the 50s & 60s now at age 78. Never to old to learn.
My ego hurts. Thank you for your reminder of being a pilot of my family and others without ego. This is difficult, but I really want to learn from this.
So....make your boss look good, while he/she's making you look bad? Ummm, no thanks. On one hand, I get it. Avoid being confrontational, yes. But at some point the relationship needs to.be mutually beneficial. The reason why so many people.get in roles they should never have is because we encourage the craziness. I'm not saying attack him/her. What I'm saying is play your cards close until you can get in a better position. Stay neutral until you can get in a better position. Do not stay in toxic situations. It does you and your experience a disservice.
So Im a boot in the fleet right now, and my NCO fucks us up for the dumbest shit, somedays I can respect my NCO and some days I resent the NCO. NCO always shows up late, sleeves unrolled as he gets to work. wears a hoodie in our shop, and if we are 1 min late, its 700 ammo cans or until we die. The NCO doesn’t lead by example whatsoever and blasts us for the most minor inconveniences. But Im glad that person is my NCO, because when I become an NCO, I am never doing any of that shit baggery that person does.
Jocko i really needed this one today.. I have been dealing with this new NCO who absolutely just hates me and is looking for me to fail at every corner. As a civillian I used to be a logistics manager in the medical field (which took a lot of effort to earn as a position) and I try to apply that business professionalism in the workplace but I end up being treated here in my new "job" as someone whom this NCO always suspects that to be doing something wrong and wasting time which hurts my ego because I try to put my best foot forward, be the helping hand, and show that I am intrinsically motivated for my own professional ambitions and the team's mission. I now realize that whether or not this NCO is a good leader is not an excuse to have a bad attitude myself as I cant just swap roles with him and on the contrary I need to massage his ego and facilitate a relationship as well as an environment in which he will want to lead me and have trust in me.
Damn solid advice. Use caution when you percieve they don't know what they are doing. I have been humble by this a couple of times. Judging new leadership is touchy as they are also trying to feel out this new environment. Give them time and follow exactly as Jocko says. The hard part is setting aside our own ego.
The Bible says to submit to authority. Whether it’s the actual leader of the land, someone of the law, or the boss/supervisor in the workplace. Also, as a person is - playing the game, I guess you could say - of submitting to/helping/working around that bad leader, that person is building character and gaining even more experience and expertise. I’ve had to learn to “work around” and help a bad leader at my workplace. It is very difficult at times but most days are alright. The atmosphere and morale in the office is much better. Reading the Bible and prayer before I begin each day help. Reading the Old Testament about King David, although he did made mistakes he was a great leader and was loved and respected by his military and his people. And he didn’t give himself the credit but always gave God the glory. Because it is always God who gives us the ability. Anyway, great video!! And love how what you said goes with what the Bible teaches!
Wow. I consider myself confident but dealing with an individual in particular I now realize how much of an EGO I allow myself to have. Laying out as a game of chess is spot on. Thank you. I can now see positives moving forward.
RESPECT the position of authority, build that relationship and make yourself a valuable part of the team as opposed to becoming an immediate THREAT :) Great advice
I have this type leader only with the added dimension of being absent a huge amount of the time. I’m an hourly one man section doing specialized testing. When things get busy, I need overtime to counter the surge. Manager no where to be found or responds to emails to authorize overtime (to save money) despite other ,+200 departments doing overtime routinely all year round. I’m forced to run ragged to make deadlines and get things shipped. One other thing, I’m regularly asked to work during holiday breaks and plant shutdowns with no advance notice which I’ve done for a few years now wrecking my personal life. I would be leaving and the manager would show to ask me to stay. Policy is to give 24 hours before overtime nd more time for holiday shutdowns. Little this person is doing supports my operations and I found out he was actively working to try and split my job among several people but my job is specialized and it’s not easy to learn and physically demanding. No one wants my job. lol So, I do my duties working harder for same amount of money because this guy is a brown noser. He sent a private email to the company president and the president resent it to the whole company. It was in regards to some managers in another country not following company polices. Everybody reacted the same way and have a low opinion of him. Yet, this is my boss and I tried to work with him but he keeps secrets. Your advice doesn’t work in this senecio, I’m afraid. Still working hard. Former Marine Sgt.
lol I never understood that women play possum. These men will use braun but these woman are cunning to the most, got to respect that and be aware if you're offending her. Because in some way you will pay.
This is really good advice. I teach a basic supervision course and totally agree with Jocko on this subject. Well stated. The only backlash you might run into is others not understanding your techniques and therefore labeling you as a brown noser. It takes very thick skin to deploy your suggestions but it has stronger leadership attributes
Growing in respect for Jocko more and more. Must admit I was skeptical of him early on, but his advise is almost always on the mark, and he seems genuinely humble. Having seen the situation he’s describing again and again in the workforce, very few people do what he’s saying here, that is, to build up leaders lacking confidence or even ability, especially if it’s clear they’re genuinely trying their best. Anyone can tear a person down. It takes real character to build a person up. We would all prefer others to build us up rather than tear us down, so why not “...do unto others as you would have them do to you...”?
after u helped them with everything ....boost their ego ... teach them all they didnt knew ...they will stomp u so hard on first wrong thing u do...no matter what it is...and yeah go and check your ego and help that ignorant guy who got job over some connection and watch him bury you on first mistake cuz your ego is fine now but theirs are boosted and where you at then??
"Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, because you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as your reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.…"
I'm a small stature of a man, I'm civilan. I am constantly worried about losing my non at any job, even when I have perfect reviews. I am told I am too nice ( by some shadey individuals that I hired to move my stuff cross country) My new boss seems to flip his shit on a dime, it doesn't make me mad, or really evoke any emotion other than ' am I dumb' and is he going to fire me? if he fires me, I'll go wash dishes and be ok, he will have zero free time, I'll also lose out on a lot of life skills. I feel like I am going crazy just explaining my situation. I work my ass off just to get yelled at because I don't pick up a new task in a matter of minutes.
Great points. I'm curious how this approach would play out when lives or large amounts of profits hang in the balance of the current decision? eg urgency. When the person in charge is about to do something that will directly affect all those under their command in a negative way, do you adjust your tactics at that point?
I feel like I just got marriage counseling. You can't go head to head or ego to ego with your wife. You're gonna lose. But keep your ego in check, build her up, let her take credit for things. Let her have the ideas and win without her knowing. Respect her no matter what and don't talk to her like she's dumb. Seriously, this is marriage counseling too!! Thanks Dr. Jocko!!
Screw anybody who "thumbed this down" bc this bit of advice not only kept my job but after taking my senior manager out to dinner that I hate sometimes got me a paid day off afterwards
@@rav6274 If the leader doesn't lead by example, don't follow them. Jocko has made a similar point before, in how if a leader isn't willing to do the tasks he's asking you to do, then beware - the leader may not have their ego in check and may think that some tasks are below them. Leaders can make excellent points and decisions, but it's something to note if the leader won't do all the tasks that their inferiors are required/asked to do.
7:37 - On doing what you want, be careful on doing too much of what you want, or even ending up only doing what you want, you could derail yourself if you loose acountability...
I had a unit manager once, who is very egotistical, and seems to be very self centered. She only cares for her own promotion and scorecard, and very prideful and threatening. I hated her and disgusted her prideful approach and at the same time, i hated her selfishness and her incompetency, well, what made me hate her even more is that when she gossiped about her boss to me that her boss is very prodeful and she told me about the conversation that both of her boss have and how much she hated one of the boss in the office. As well as how much she tried to look for one of the accounts that one of my team mate , where he made a mistake. I think, I don't have so much strength to be the sponge absorber of this type of person and as well as I hated the fact that she's so hard to talk to giving so much boundaries and whenever she's being acknowledged when she don't even give credit to her team. I had resented her complaining attitude, her gossips to me about her boss and how much she reacted when other people states tgeir sentements.. It's so hateful experience for me knowing that this type of experiences and people exist. The fact that am her subordinate and be bombarded with this type of situation os so toxic . Yet , I admit that I had been toxic for her as well when I had a lot of bad situations going on when we're together. Still , leadership is such a wide scope to deal and live with. And you're right, I should check my ego too... Thank you... But, I tried that at first been playing the game but am just so not into blowing someone's ego anymore. Finally gave up and as much as possible had lesser contact with her, so grateful that I have a better boss now.
They lose respect not because we think we're better than them BUT because they stop giving respect. Ego or pride is not put on check here it's practicing the golden rule.
I am helpful by nature, but know my boundaries. I do it in a way, that is positive and uplifting. When they are done using me, they attack my character behind my back, to co workers, then upper mgmt.ast manager did the same. I have no motive to hurt anyone. The thanks i get, betrayal. Last manager did same thing, til he got fired for abusing his power. I feel like this is a bad relationship not a job.
I was once the leader who joined an industry with no experience at all. I brought in great managerial and leadership skills to the plate but didn't know the technical aspect of the industry. The technical field manager under me worked very hard to bring me down and he successfully did that. The environment was so toxic that I checked out one month into the job. I eventually left the company after the 5th month.
bategs900 What Jocko Willink means is when we allow ourselves to get caught up in blaming others, or getting into a ridiculous power struggle with someone who is in a position of power over us...we end up being and feeling unhappy and we will lose and that will only make things worse, instead of making things better. Jocko Willink is right about creating a relationship based on mutual respect between yourself and your boss. He is explaining to people that if they'll actually apply and do things to help others, doing THAT...in turn WILL also help them and help things to become better and be more enjoyable. It's well-worth doing!
Jennifer Dana Well said, as long as your dealing with the right type of person yes. Definitely, I feel I am now finally in a situation where this can happen. Thank Goodness.
Clandestine operations, covert actions: This is so interesting. I just did a 2 month stint in the clerical side of a science laboratory and my supervisor was all about the 'you don't know this so I will do it for you' or 'you aren't up to speed so I will take this job away from you and do it myself'. But at the same time the person would only give very limited training and information about how to do the job. This is hugely frustrating when you're just trying to learn to do a job well. Give me the adequate tools and I can do the job. Some people can be very insecure about their position in the workplace, to the point where they will jeopardize a good working model or the potential for learning and improvement of a system.
From observing the workplace I've noticed that arrogance from leaders can be a response to employees thinking they know more than the person in charge.
The tip has worked exceptionally for me but I've come across my first in corporate work where it doesn't work. I've noticed that any positive feedback from the client I received she would either hang up, or remove me from tasks or, the most recent email from the client with positive feedback, I lost the work - she redelegated it to someone else. I never took credit for the work, I made her look good in front of the clients (even though before me working on the task the CEOs of each of the files received complaints about her) and she removed me from the task. I have no idea what more I could have done. She then told my boss I was underperforming. Fortunately, he brought it to my attention and let her speak and I got to address the issues she raised. She said she'll give me more work and I've reached out to her, asked her if she had time to discuss any tasks today, asked if she could let me know when she's available to talk about tasks .....I'll ask her tomorrow again seeking work. Again, I have no idea what I've done or why she doesn't want to
Having incompetent leaders in the civilian world that should not be doing a job isn't uncommon and sometimes you just can't fix stupid. I most of my recent jobs I was brought in as a subject matter expert, it still amazes me that management members want to make decisions on the subject matter that they hired me to implement and/or fix without having any clue about how it works. There are people that are bad bosses no matter how much you try to support them.
My current platoon sergeant will keep going out of his way to harass me. I came here to get answers as to why I keep getting personal attacks when I genuinely ask for help. I'm losing my mind because he keeps using very specific triggers to my anxiety to hurt me. If I don't take the bait the first time, he drops five more hooks, if those don't work, it's 5 more for each hook casted. I don't even want to bring him down, I want to support him. I don't want his job, I just want to live my life, he's learned how to BS knowledge and figure stuff out well, but his knowledge is all outdated. I do respect him. He's a freaking sergeant first class, I'm just a specialist, I keep trying to build a relationship, trust, and I keep just getting hurt. My anxiety is at an all time high and I get more resilient with each time, I get further each time, and yet he won't just stop with personal attacks. I get it, he doesn't like me. How am I supposed to keep working in this kind of hostile environment, I didn't do anything but try to help the man, I didn't talk down to him once. I don't know what the hell to do anymore.
I would do this when trying to get the company to buy a new/used piece of equipment. Do the justifiable footwork to help the manager/foreman understand why this machine is important to have. It's just helping.
in the army i have a few 'ego maniac' sgts. This is by far the best advice I've heard on how to deal with them. guess what? playing the game can be can be fun...
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.
--Laozi
Risto Mononen Easily said if you aren't a leader. It's extremely difficult to be selfless, I'd say it's pretty likely the great leaders who aren't known, are unknown not by choice but by circumstance.
suckmentality, I agree it's good to check the ego as Jocko says. The idea is old.
Risto Mononen Thank you for posting that comment by Laozi!
I better go work out now!
Risto Mononen great quote though
1. Wait them out (they get promoted, transfer or get another job).
2. Transfer.
3. Get another job.
4. Wait and see if more coworkers or even upper management notices their unprofessional, counterproductive behavior. If enough see it, then you can together address it with upper authority.
Making them look good?... They don't care. I tried that, and was sincere when I crowed good things about my manager to her superiors. She just saw my compliments and helpful-communication as a sign of weakness. Real narc.
Literally watching this as I’m writing a 2000 word essay cause I tried to fight a toxic sgt. You saved my life mine
How’s life now bud!
Really kinda curious?
@@jacobwilliston524 opo
@@mrpoosteak life is good . So the story is this certain nco was telling me to do one thing while the other nco was telling me to do another . I was a brand new private and the two ncos did not like eachother . One was telling me that the other was a shit bag and would defend me if he tried to do anything to me . So after going back and fourth between nco 1 and nco 2 , nco 2 ( who was the one who made me write the paper ) screamed at me infront of a company of my peers and told me fuck off . I said roger and walked away and I turned and looked back at him . When I did he said I gave him a look with attitude . I was then immeditely pushed and cornered into a set of wall lockers while he cussed in my face and asked me to do something about it . I crunched my fists in defiance and In stupidity . He got the other ncos together and nco 1 did not stick up for me . Him and 6 other ncos rotated turns smoking the dog shit out of me for 8 hours and then had me write a 2000 word essay on the importance of respecting NCOS . I pretty much wrote what jocko said and he wripped the paper up and then got our psg involved and we handled it on that level . There was absolutely mistakes made on both sides. I could’ve simply gone to parade rest and said roger sgt and then not looked back . He could have handled things better on his end . At the end of the day we both learned from our mistakes and I am a better solider from it . If I can give advice to any new private who is dealing with a similar situation is that always just go to parade rest and take the blame and say roger . 99.9% of the time the fuckery will stop there
@@nickw3539 he should have his rank taken away
I did that with my boss for years. I would defend him when people would question him. I would reformat reports when he would do an extremely shoddy jobs so he wouldn't be embarrassed. I would do my job so well that it would cover any of his deficiencies he had and make him look like an excellent leader. I thought it would make him value my opinion and bring me in as an ally. We had big wins together but when it came down to it, he didnt care about anyone but himself. He took credit for everything and blamed everyone if things went wrong. He was so sheltered by us as a team that when things went wrong and it required him to step up, he had no clue. And if you tried to suggest a direction, he was the kind to take pleasure in shutting it down. He also had zero principles so he was not averse to bullying, humiliating, side lining and frustrating people. He would say the sky is green today and say the sky is red tomorrow. He is a duplicitous and untrustworthy leader.
Dealing with that now
Yes...and also what's missing in the video is the toll this takes on your psyche. To say that it's ego puts the blame on the victim, that's too black and white.. If you are constantly catering to someone like that, your boundaries are flawed, and you lose self-respect. It will break you down. You lose confidence. All the while, you expect some kind of "payout" that never comes. In a way, that's manipulative, sneaky and underhanded, and at worst, inauthentic. Being inauthentic not only alienates others, potentially, but it alienates yourself from yourself, and you know it...eventually you don't even know who you are anymore.
@@lf5163 All the best to you. Today I decided to start looking for a new job. Don't let it get to you, and don't think you are the problem.
@@MindyZielfelderArt holy shit, it like you put into words what I am experiencing so perfectly. The physiological toll being under a truly sociopathic leader who does not know/refuses to learn how to do their job, gas lights to the extreme, changes goal posts constantly, is truest humiliating and mean, and does appreciate any work that has ever been done no matter how much you do is something most people can’t truly can’t comprehend unless they have experienced it. Stay strong, best of luck to you.
Great thing about civilian life is if people are like that you can just leave.
This advice works until you run into a leader that leads with ego AND is incredibly insecure. That combination is deadly.
if he has ego, this works better. if you have an idea on how to do something better you can approach him and say "i had this idea, i kinda got it from something you said... blah blah blah" because his ego is huge, he will value it and see you as someone to keep around.
You must’ve met my last boss...she could never do wrong and it was always our fault. If it wasn’t her idea it was automatically shut down
That's when u resign and go work for the compeditor
Some things can't be worked out.
That's when you need to leave. Given that you've been wise and did your best to work with that situation, or consider that this is not worth your efforts. Then leave.
I just called my boss out for being a bully with no tact in his approach. He comes at you talkin out the side of his face. Never straight. He enjoys picking on two other employees, he curses at them and throws shit at them while on break. I got tired of seeing it. This kid is fresh out of highschool. I jumped down his throat about his shitty leadership and lack of professionalism. We had a heated argument outside. I called em a fuckin punk for picking on those who are smaller and too passive for their own good. He tried doin that shit with me, but that ended real fast. After I called his ass out for being a fucking jerk. He exercised his power and sent me home. Now I gotta make a stupid ass statement. I also spoke on behalf of the other two guys. Great guys too. This situation may not be like the one in this video, but some motherfuckers need no empathy. I aint stroking no mans ego that messes with others. Even Jesus said; Do not cast pearls to swine. No one should have to go through this kind of shit in a place of business and profession. If I lose my job, at least I can walk out with my head up. If my words or witnesses evoke anger in him to try something, he can catch these hands too. Its not just about me, I genueanly felt bad for my peers. I felt embarrassed for them.
I am a retired special operations SNCO and have run into all types of people in positions of power and authority (note I did NOT say leader...just because you occupy a position of power and authority does NOT make you a leader......if you think you are a leader then you need to turn around to see if anyone is following you...if not, then you are no leader). As Jocko alluded to - the first thing you must understand is your relative position on the food chain. You have to be very aware of your position powers and authorities or lack there of....do not operate outside of your position powers and authorities. Understand that there will be times that a person above you has been promoted "to a level of incompetence"....this is to say that the person in that position of power may have no business being in the position they are....but they are and you have a mission to take care of. I ran into this in my career, mainly on the enlisted side, however, also running into officers that had been promoted in rank (typically O-5 and above) and as a result placed in positions of great responsibility, yet were clearly ill-equipt to perform at that level. This is where it gets tricky in my opion. If you are below a person that is in over their head yet you wield some degree of position power and authority...i.e you are a manager, team leader, work leader....then you have a responsibility to not only "mentor up", but also mentor your subordinates through this time of adversity. You also have a responsibility to keep things positive amongst other managers/team leads/work leads in the organization....ill feelings towards a person in power can spread quickly and be ruinous to an organization. The trick is to keep the person in power from nose diving the operation and taking you all down with him/her. As Jocko stated - this is the art of influence and the art of influence, in my opinion, is a skill acquired over time through great mentorship. However, there is also the situation where you are simply in a position that does not wield any position power or authority. This is a VERY hard place to be in as you are completely at the whim of the person in power. In this situation, you are basically in survival mode - which is to say "can I survive the tenure of this person with my career intact"? It is in this situation were one focuses on doing their specific job as well as possible and ignore everything else going on around you...be the proverbial "gray man". In this cases like this, my recommendation is to document, document, document......In my previous life, we would frequently craft "Memorandums For Record" (dated the day written and wet signature on each document) that spelled out a situation or was a running catalog of an ongoing situation in the event that the issue came to a head. If push comes to shove you need to be able to walk into the commander/first sergeant's office and have a detailed history of what has occurred and what you have done, if anything, about the situation. It is always better to try to resolve issues at the lowest levels, but sometimes that is not possible, however, walking into leadership office (HR if civilian) with no documented specifics to start from is a kiss of death. I think what Jocko says about building a relationship is good but it is certainly dependant on the person you are dealing with...a relationship may not be possible and I have been in that exact situation. If the person is a true leader he/she will listen to the subordinates and make course adjustments based on that input...especially from the leaders and management team directly beneath them that respectfully, unemotionally and professionally tabled their concerns or feedback. However, you have people that believe they are the smartest people in the room as a function of the promotion or the position they hold.....they think that the promotion is validation that they are the smartest, most capable person in the room and how would you possibly know better. It is in this situation that, in my opinion, a productive relationship is not very likely. It is in this situation where one has to simply survive the tenure of the tyrant. But, again...this is not something learned in a book....handling these issues come down to experience and in some cases, it is the bad experience that teaches the most. Good luck to anyone who is dealing with a bad boss. I dealt with a bad SNCO from 2006 - 2010 and then a bad LtCol from 2012 - 2014 ...I survived both and retired in 2014 with my reputation and honor fully in tack and I did not compromise anything...I just played the game better.
Plenty of solid truth in this comment! Especially like the memorandums for record idea and think I will use that when needed. If you disagree with your boss/manager/supervisor, have a conversation discussing the concern, then document. If shit hits the fan and they try to throw you under the bus, then you pull out the memorandum and state exactly what happened and when.
Extremely helpfut comment, thank you. Facing extreme tyrant right now, caught by surprise.
What if after helping to make the undeserving leader look good, he shits on you, because he thinks you're outshining him? What then?
This really helped, thanks!😊
Nice words, but having lived through this in the civilian world my advice is “don’t try”. What you recommend above is good advice and should be your plan of action while you secure another job. However, if you get to this point you’re already in the red flag domain. Also, be really wary of “my word versus my boss’”. You’ll find truly sick people who have made it into these positions purely by luck -Darwinism. They’ll have sixth and seventh senses for not documenting their critical offenses and for manipulating others. They’ll keep everything quiet, collecting information on your personality until they blindside you. They will break you and create a hostile work environment; you’ll notice that they’ve escalated things to the point that there is no productive recourse through HR, that haven’t documented anything leading up to their egregious behavior, and that it’ll end up being your word versus theirs. Even if HR believes you, people are great at changing how the situation is interpreted - “oh yes, that’s what I said, but I meant it in this other positive way!” Of course the company will give your boss the benefit of the doubt - he’s higher on the food chain than you! Chances are they’ll recalibrate and put you on the slow burn again.
So, to all above, start searching for another job. That’s my recommendation. You can’t control other people.
I did this for a year and a half. I don't wanna play the game anymore, so I'm leaving. I'm happy to have learned what I can about what not to do. Time to go back to where leadership can teach me the right way to do things.
When I became a commander of a signal company, one of the SFCs did this very thing with me. He made me look like a rock star! When the Full Bird would grill me, I simply answered what this E-7 stated he saw as "coming down the pipe" and his recommended solution during planning sessions with him & the 1SG. I learned more from him with regards to interpersonal skills, leadership, and running operations than any senior officer "mentor" or school house has ever taught me. He was the single biggest factor to that unit exceeding standards on multiple fronts. Solid advice sir. Please keep it coming.
So u gave him a raise for making u like a rock star or nah?
Just the TOPIC I have been currently dealing with the past few weeks. I am a surgical tech assisting surgeons in the operating room. Not all, but some doctors have overly inflated egos and are prone to literally throwing temper tantrums over very minor issues when they don't get their way. As a fellow military veteran I am accustomed to expecting higher-ranking individuals to demonstrate more grit and emotional control/intelligence. Seeing these grown, "educated" men behave like bratty two-year olds has become utterly ridiculous. I've discussed some of these experiences with my brother, also a vet (Marine) and we concluded that "bosses" who are petty and childish in their attempt to come off as intimidating to their employees are actually demonstrating weakness.
Xian Aten Overman does their tantrums get them what they want?
Xian Aten Overman
As a Marine Corps veteran I agree
I believe we have a different perspective on what pressure, trouble and tragedy are
A more disciplined and less emotional approach to such things
Keep focused Brother
DimensionZombie,
Thanks Bro. Means a lot. As military men we just concern ourselves with accomplishing the mission at hand with what we have available.
1fitRN ,
God doesn't think he's a surgeon?
mein,
All it gets them is disdain from everyone around them.
Tough to do if you're dealing with a narcissist. If you ever have to engage with a narcissist, no game, no tactic and no formula will allow you to win, covert or otherwise because they're not playing the game you are. They're not on the same planet with the same rules as you.
My wife works for one. These people can't see the forest through the trees. Too tied up in what the deal is for THEM and they'll say they have your back or that you're important but not to a narcissist. There's only THEIR way or the highway. And sometimes the highway can be a valid and affirming choice.
People don't leave jobs. They leave managers.
RESPECT YOURSELF enough to realize the moment you will never win and take your skills elsewhere. Don't give up, but know when you create your Exodus.
Dealing with this with my new manager. It is tough because our previous manager (who is still here, just in the director position) was such a great leader. To contrast the previous manager to the current one is like night and day. Still adjusting. I can't stay here long term but need to stay long enough to qualify for higher level roles and I land a new job. To me that is playing the game. You don't need to stay with a terrible boss forever. Make a plan, work towards it and find it in you (despite how pissed off they may get you) to be professional. You control how you respond to situations.
A brilliant insight from Jocko - It’s your ego that prevents you from respecting others. We should all remember that when we feel we can’t respect someone else.
I agree with indirect methods when dealing with bad bosses, but only if the timing is right e.g. if you have something good to gain. Sometimes it’s wiser to cut the losses and leave the ’bad boss playing field’. Life is too short for nonsense.
Encountered a similar situation three years ago. The new leader refused to learn any thing or take advice. Ended up costing the company $700,000 and he left the company. Sometimes poor leaders need to be replaced swiftly before damage is done.
Sometimes it’s entertaining to watch them fall down
@@jawary8474Ong it is 😂
Civil engineer in a small business. Last year a senior employee who carried the company left due to frustration with the boss. 2 new employees have come and gone, and my boss and his new senior are not managing things well and have become increasingly nasty.
All the workers are extremely frustrated. Ive stopped caring and am looking for better opportunities.
I think may be watching someone destroy a company they spent their life building.
I realize the error in my ways. My two biggest faults are my insecurities and my ego. You couldn’t be more right Jocko. Thank you 🙏
When you have value, skills and balls, you can stand toe to toe to "leaders" who are incompetent, not ass kiss
I’ve been following this advice for a couple of months now. It’s killing me, but I’m continuing forward by checking my ego. My ego wants to put him in a Rear naked choke..I’m finding that the more I do, the way less he does. Recently I had to draw the line because my boss began texting me for work related shit late at night while I’m at home. (Like 0300 hours)
I’ll stay down the path. However, I’m estimating this type of person will not vouch or support me. He’s all “smoke and mirrors” and what I’m learning. I’m learning that he’s talented at convincing people he knows more than he does. Yet, I’m continuing to follow this advice..
Sounds like some of my bosses over the years.
How did it turn out?
@@nerminc.1713 I have to say that many times this advice has saved me from embarrassing myself…and just a few instances someone needed that “gut check”
So now I approach instances when I generally won’t and learn how to mitigate a problem or completely solve one with a more objective view point.
I work in a very similar situation to the one discussed in this video. However, I think this only applies to a boss you deem "respectable". When I started at my job we had a very intelligent boss who recognized the hard work and innovation done and made us aware of the short falls of our crew and helped correct them (even when resisted). A year later he left and was replaced by an outsider with no experience (we were not notified of the opening). The current boss has no desire/ability to learn and has gradually shifted his responsibilities down to the workers. He spends little time at work, has no transparency and only interacts with the crew when he needs favours like OT. To further the damage he has done the company he has hired friends of his and created a culture of nepotism which is making experienced workers who are actually doing the bulk of his job looking for other employment. I don't feel that following the advice laid out in this video could have resulted in a different present, the fault is that it assumes the superior is willing to learn. I think this is a case of upper management (who show the same traits of laziness) failing to correct their own mistake and not seeing the long term effects it will have.
His example here is more rare. The norm today are leaders who are on a self-mission and could care less whether their work ants help them or put them in a good light. I take issue with him not pointing out that his advice is for the rare situation for when you have a sane, mentally stable manager. So, making it sound like a mutual ego struggle is not helpful to a real victim.
@betsy. Yes. I've worked for the physical boss that wasn't willing to learn too and know all to well the abuse and mental stress put on their subordinates. However, I actually think that type of boss is in the minority and the more common types of "problem bosses" are one's that are willing to change when you implement Jocko's advice. My one psycho boss I used to work for, I left the job after 6 years and I couldn't be happier.
*psycho
You can help egoistic boss as much you can. They will not give you credit for it. They eventually will see you as more smart and more hard working as they are and they will get rid of you.
riling just happened to me funny enough. Well or ironically enough
Yep. If they are headstrong and narcissistic, they'll treat you like their bitch if you lay out the red carpet for them. I had a new boss come in and take my ideas to the boss and claim as his own. He was openly praised in a meeting for my ideas and as the manager was praising him, the new boss looks at me and smiles knowing that I know I just got him all that
yep agree
riling
True. I'm having a hard time with Jocko's advice on this one. I guess my ego won't let me bow to someone undeserving, but I'd rather get fired than let my boss steal my ideas and claim my hard work.
Maybe you guys should start a business since you have all the ideas and want credit for them?
Servant Leadership is the way forward. After 25 plus years in management, I've tried a variety of styles and approaches. Thinking on your feet will naturally provide solutions but at some point, your ego will get in the way. Also, if you lead by serving, no one will be able to challenge you with any level of success. Be on the lookout for those who are unable to follow. These are usually the ones who talk a big game and don't produce squat. A good team will follow you as you serve them and the stragglers will never be able to keep up. If you embrace this method, prepare to be exhausted from it. But, it will pay off in time. I'm still experimenting with it and it has challenged me, but it is worth looking into. Some work cultures however, may be too poisoned or embedded in old thought and will just use you more than they do now. Eyes open....head on a swivel !
Edit: This is not from a religious motivation but to each his own. It's just real life experience. Good luck.
Robert Greene talks about this in his book, “48 laws of power”
OB TC which part
Law 1 and its a frequently reoccurring trope through out the book. Just a key part of general mental warfare in most superior-subordinate relationships you see in life.
Never outshine the master
I cant remember what its called. Never Outshine the Master or something along those lines.
He also mentioned "Law 7 - Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit." Why make the leader look good if they will get the credit?
Serious lack of people with overarching perspective in this comment section, who are feelings driven with massive egos. I'm glad they're hearing what you have to say, rather than people just here that already know how the world works, and that winning isn't always about idealistic nonsense or looking good to others.
Sometimes you need to play the long game, learn how to deal with variable people on a daily basis, and strike when the time is right.
Lots of entitled types in society, that have zero patience, no perspective, and no understanding of what leading really means, and how difficult it actually is.
Apparently I'm wrong. This was super helpful, I'm generally the guy who goes above and beyond and when I have a boss who doesn't recognize my work or can't keep his end of things up, I try to tear them down. I think it's caused me to lose career options in the past and I'll keep it in mind for the future.
This is totally counterintuitive but makes perfect sense. I've definitely failed going ego to ego with higher-ups that I thought were incompetent (been fired that way).
Appealing to ego is straight out of the 48 laws of power ("never outshine the master" comes to mind).
If you truly want a certain result and it's not about your own ego, then you open a creative doorway to approach that person and coax / Jedi mind trick them into supporting the appropriate action. Because after all, it's the result that matters and not the recognition.
Great question and great advice.
Excellent content! I followed every word, especially considering I had a rough night at work with poor "Superiors". Winning!
Fully agree. Takes a huge amount of discipline but works every time.
I wish I'd had someone to tell me this a few years ago, it probably would have stopped me losing a job.
The real question i have for you, is are you happier now, in your new career path, than you were before, when dealing with this issue?
Part of me likes this idea that Jocko is talking about and I may give it a go... but I also think that an egotistical boss, who doesn't know his shit, and tries to throw you under the bus. Can also lead to STRESS. And Stress, overall, is not healthy in the long run. Life's too short to be stressed out because of someone else's ego.
I have respect for everyone I meet initially. However, If you try to run me down, or don't value my work at all and talk to me in a demeaning way. (and i bust my ass at every job I do so i know my own value.)
Then what is the end result of "sticking it out" and making him look good??
Will it get YOU anywhere?
Or will it just make him look good. At the end of the day. I think sometimes, you have to measure weather or not you are happy. Because being stressed out every day can shorten your life. Sometimes, it's just not worth it. It's a gamble. Stick it out? or look for new opportunities?
Adding to this, if you're gonna build that relationship, it is always in your benefit to do it from a good heart. If you can't put your ego aside and find reasons to respect them (no matter how little) and come up with your own positive motivations to work alongside this person, it'll blow up in your face. Fighting ego with (strategic) ego never works as well. Being tactical and cunning can be even more draining and difficult than being genuine.
I find this to be mostly true.
You can do this with all types of horrible bosses and be successful except one: those who lack moral integrity. I can even deal with the incompetent, but, if at every turn they are backstabbing a**hats, there seems to be no win.
AGREED! How can this work for you in the long run if you do the hard work and then they take the credit for themselves and lacks the integrity to share the wins. As a leader for my team, I want my people to have their wins so that they can win as well. I agree this works only if they have integrity.
On the flip side - this man has had months to learn the efforts I trained him, shared the information, even did what Jocko said and I’m at the point now that I feel it’s causing more harm than doing good for the overall team.
The "Ego" hears ........... " So in other words , "Be fake , be phoney , and by all means pucker up ! "
Enjoyed your podcast and the talks with Joe Rogan.
You said: “Let me learn something from them”: That is the most effective strategy! What you learn doesn’t always need to be related to work. I have learned positive things about how a manager deals with a significant other or his kids, which in turn, lead me to a better understanding of his methodology. It’s important to look to other aspects of life to break through those layers rather than a pure focus on the daily tasks.
Then you are able to find that common ground which could translate to the Sun Tzu concept of terrain. When you clearly see the terrain that another person resides upon, you can support their strengths. If you outwardly illuminate a weakness, you force them to defend their position; usually at your expense. Support your bosses strengths while covertly reinforcing their weaker areas like a silent and patient engineer.
Then you get to that magical realization: “this guy sort of sucks, BUT I understand it; AND he’s actually not a bad guy!” This process then becomes fun; especially when your boss comes to ask you for advice. That is when you know that your operation is taking shape. Then in your own mind you know that you are becoming more of an equal; a teammate rather than subordinate.
When you make an effort to understand others there is a subtle transition towards your own personal improvement. I like to call it “calculated empathy.” Through this process you are able to open your mind to gain diverse insight while still remaining strong in the core of your beliefs.
Yet, for some unfortunate people, your boss might still just be a totally delusional, obsolete and egomaniacal piece of shit and you just accept it and eventually move on!
I have learned so much from Jacko. I have read all of his books & listen to a number of podcasts. Jacko Sorry we are not similar in age or you weren't around with your knowledge you have now then . By the way unfortunately grew up in Coronado in the 50s & 60s now at age 78. Never to old to learn.
My ego hurts. Thank you for your reminder of being a pilot of my family and others without ego. This is difficult, but I really want to learn from this.
So....make your boss look good, while he/she's making you look bad? Ummm, no thanks. On one hand, I get it. Avoid being confrontational, yes. But at some point the relationship needs to.be mutually beneficial. The reason why so many people.get in roles they should never have is because we encourage the craziness. I'm not saying attack him/her. What I'm saying is play your cards close until you can get in a better position. Stay neutral until you can get in a better position. Do not stay in toxic situations. It does you and your experience a disservice.
Jocko, you rock. Extreme ownership is helpful in my daily life. I come up short, but I don't quit.
(2:00) ....and what do you do when you make him look good, but he still pisses on you while telling you it's raining?
bermripper have you heard of a "throat punch"? It's actually very basic lol jk
this is such amazing info that I had to replay it back to back at least 4 times and forward to my friends! thanks jocko you the boss! love ya!
So Im a boot in the fleet right now, and my NCO fucks us up for the dumbest shit, somedays I can respect my NCO and some days I resent the NCO. NCO always shows up late, sleeves unrolled as he gets to work. wears a hoodie in our shop, and if we are 1 min late, its 700 ammo cans or until we die. The NCO doesn’t lead by example whatsoever and blasts us for the most minor inconveniences. But Im glad that person is my NCO, because when I become an NCO, I am never doing any of that shit baggery that person does.
Jocko, I have abundance of gratitude and respect for you and what you do. Very balanced perspective and grounded in facts about how humans function.
Thank You. This is really helpful. Most of my Managers were great, but one was a clueless disaster.
Jocko i really needed this one today.. I have been dealing with this new NCO who absolutely just hates me and is looking for me to fail at every corner. As a civillian I used to be a logistics manager in the medical field (which took a lot of effort to earn as a position) and I try to apply that business professionalism in the workplace but I end up being treated here in my new "job" as someone whom this NCO always suspects that to be doing something wrong and wasting time which hurts my ego because I try to put my best foot forward, be the helping hand, and show that I am intrinsically motivated for my own professional ambitions and the team's mission. I now realize that whether or not this NCO is a good leader is not an excuse to have a bad attitude myself as I cant just swap roles with him and on the contrary I need to massage his ego and facilitate a relationship as well as an environment in which he will want to lead me and have trust in me.
Its situational... Some so called leaders got to where they are at from less than honorable means below the virtue of a stand up leader.
Damn solid advice. Use caution when you percieve they don't know what they are doing. I have been humble by this a couple of times. Judging new leadership is touchy as they are also trying to feel out this new environment. Give them time and follow exactly as Jocko says. The hard part is setting aside our own ego.
The Bible says to submit to authority. Whether it’s the actual leader of the land, someone of the law, or the boss/supervisor in the workplace. Also, as a person is - playing the game, I guess you could say - of submitting to/helping/working around that bad leader, that person is building character and gaining even more experience and expertise. I’ve had to learn to “work around” and help a bad leader at my workplace. It is very difficult at times but most days are alright. The atmosphere and morale in the office is much better. Reading the Bible and prayer before I begin each day help. Reading the Old Testament about King David, although he did made mistakes he was a great leader and was loved and respected by his military and his people. And he didn’t give himself the credit but always gave God the glory. Because it is always God who gives us the ability. Anyway, great video!! And love how what you said goes with what the Bible teaches!
Wow. I consider myself confident but dealing with an individual in particular I now realize how much of an EGO I allow myself to have. Laying out as a game of chess is spot on. Thank you. I can now see positives moving forward.
On some level he's saying, (keep your friends close) & your enemies closer.
RESPECT the position of authority, build that relationship and make yourself a valuable part of the team as opposed to becoming an immediate THREAT :) Great advice
I have this type leader only with the added dimension of being absent a huge amount of the time.
I’m an hourly one man section doing specialized testing. When things get busy, I need overtime to counter the surge.
Manager no where to be found or responds to emails to authorize overtime (to save money) despite other ,+200 departments doing overtime routinely all year round.
I’m forced to run ragged to make deadlines and get things shipped.
One other thing, I’m regularly asked to work during holiday breaks and plant shutdowns with no advance notice which I’ve done for a few years now wrecking my personal life. I would be leaving and the manager would show to ask me to stay. Policy is to give 24 hours before overtime nd more time for holiday shutdowns.
Little this person is doing supports my operations and I found out he was actively working to try and split my job among several people but my job is specialized and it’s not easy to learn and physically demanding. No one wants my job. lol
So, I do my duties working harder for same amount of money because this guy is a brown noser.
He sent a private email to the company president and the president resent it to the whole company.
It was in regards to some managers in another country not following company polices.
Everybody reacted the same way and have a low opinion of him.
Yet, this is my boss and I tried to work with him but he keeps secrets.
Your advice doesn’t work in this senecio, I’m afraid.
Still working hard.
Former Marine Sgt.
This should be titled "how to be a cherished wife"
lol I never understood that women play possum. These men will use braun but these woman are cunning to the most, got to respect that and be aware if you're offending her. Because in some way you will pay.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I tell my boss the truth. My light shines through his darkness. He hates me for it but he hasn't fired me.
This is really good advice. I teach a basic supervision course and totally agree with Jocko on this subject. Well stated. The only backlash you might run into is others not understanding your techniques and therefore labeling you as a brown noser. It takes very thick skin to deploy your suggestions but it has stronger leadership attributes
this is SAVING MY LIFE. I know a lot o this deep down but hearing it straight up is really helpful. Glad I found this channel!
Growing in respect for Jocko more and more. Must admit I was skeptical of him early on, but his advise is almost always on the mark, and he seems genuinely humble. Having seen the situation he’s describing again and again in the workforce, very few people do what he’s saying here, that is, to build up leaders lacking confidence or even ability, especially if it’s clear they’re genuinely trying their best. Anyone can tear a person down. It takes real character to build a person up. We would all prefer others to build us up rather than tear us down, so why not “...do unto others as you would have them do to you...”?
New to leadership.. and these videos/podcasts definitly help, thanks.
“Everything is jiu-jitsu” couldn’t help but to chuckle at this as a sound bite.
after u helped them with everything ....boost their ego ... teach them all they didnt knew ...they will stomp u so hard on first wrong thing u do...no matter what it is...and yeah go and check your ego and help that ignorant guy who got job over some connection and watch him bury you on first mistake cuz your ego is fine now but theirs are boosted and where you at then??
"Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, because you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as your reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.…"
Solution by itself is so much better when Jocko explains why it is a solution. Wow. Build a relationship, so you get to do what you want.
True leader listen to people who there under command
I know jocko hates politics but he’d be perfect for it. Always has a solution of how to deal with people of all types
I'm a small stature of a man, I'm civilan. I am constantly worried about losing my non at any job, even when I have perfect reviews.
I am told I am too nice ( by some shadey individuals that I hired to move my stuff cross country)
My new boss seems to flip his shit on a dime, it doesn't make me mad, or really evoke any emotion other than ' am I dumb' and is he going to fire me?
if he fires me, I'll go wash dishes and be ok, he will have zero free time, I'll also lose out on a lot of life skills. I feel like
I am going crazy just explaining my situation. I work my ass off just to get yelled at because I don't pick up a new task in a matter of minutes.
Great points. I'm curious how this approach would play out when lives or large amounts of profits hang in the balance of the current decision? eg urgency.
When the person in charge is about to do something that will directly affect all those under their command in a negative way, do you adjust your tactics at that point?
This is pretty much the soundest advice for working with business colleagues you can get.
Thank you all it been very emotional and am truly trying .
I feel like I just got marriage counseling. You can't go head to head or ego to ego with your wife. You're gonna lose. But keep your ego in check, build her up, let her take credit for things. Let her have the ideas and win without her knowing. Respect her no matter what and don't talk to her like she's dumb.
Seriously, this is marriage counseling too!!
Thanks Dr. Jocko!!
Correct me if I’m wrong man, but how do you find something to respect about stupid people?
Brilliant. I have this same scenario at my place of work, and I now see that this was the missing element.
Screw anybody who "thumbed this down" bc this bit of advice not only kept my job but after taking my senior manager out to dinner that I hate sometimes got me a paid day off afterwards
Bullshit pal
Thank God I came across this tonight. Nice!
Rule nr 1. IIf the leader dont lead by example, then dont follow.
What ?
@@rav6274 If the leader doesn't lead by example, don't follow them. Jocko has made a similar point before, in how if a leader isn't willing to do the tasks he's asking you to do, then beware - the leader may not have their ego in check and may think that some tasks are below them. Leaders can make excellent points and decisions, but it's something to note if the leader won't do all the tasks that their inferiors are required/asked to do.
Coming from a papermaker.........you are spot on!
7:37 - On doing what you want, be careful on doing too much of what you want, or even ending up only doing what you want, you could derail yourself if you loose acountability...
I had a unit manager once, who is very egotistical, and seems to be very self centered. She only cares for her own promotion and scorecard, and very prideful and threatening. I hated her and disgusted her prideful approach and at the same time, i hated her selfishness and her incompetency, well, what made me hate her even more is that when she gossiped about her boss to me that her boss is very prodeful and she told me about the conversation that both of her boss have and how much she hated one of the boss in the office. As well as how much she tried to look for one of the accounts that one of my team mate , where he made a mistake. I think, I don't have so much strength to be the sponge absorber of this type of person and as well as I hated the fact that she's so hard to talk to giving so much boundaries and whenever she's being acknowledged when she don't even give credit to her team. I had resented her complaining attitude, her gossips to me about her boss and how much she reacted when other people states tgeir sentements.. It's so hateful experience for me knowing that this type of experiences and people exist. The fact that am her subordinate and be bombarded with this type of situation os so toxic . Yet , I admit that I had been toxic for her as well when I had a lot of bad situations going on when we're together. Still , leadership is such a wide scope to deal and live with. And you're right, I should check my ego too... Thank you... But, I tried that at first been playing the game but am just so not into blowing someone's ego anymore. Finally gave up and as much as possible had lesser contact with her, so grateful that I have a better boss now.
Sometimes it’s just not going to work… glad you were able to change your environment
They lose respect not because we think we're better than them BUT because they stop giving respect. Ego or pride is not put on check here it's practicing the golden rule.
I am helpful by nature, but know my boundaries. I do it in a way, that is positive and uplifting. When they are done using me, they attack my character behind my back, to co workers, then upper mgmt.ast manager did the same. I have no motive to hurt anyone. The thanks i get, betrayal. Last manager did same thing, til he got fired for abusing his power. I feel like this is a bad relationship not a job.
This guy is so good at this kind of stuff he should write a book.
I was once the leader who joined an industry with no experience at all. I brought in great managerial and leadership skills to the plate but didn't know the technical aspect of the industry. The technical field manager under me worked very hard to bring me down and he successfully did that. The environment was so toxic that I checked out one month into the job. I eventually left the company after the 5th month.
bategs900 you should have appealed to his ego more
Myles Johnson What do you mean? Explain more.
bategs900 What Jocko Willink means is when we allow ourselves to get caught up in blaming others, or getting into a ridiculous power struggle with someone who is in a position of power over us...we end up being and feeling unhappy and we will lose and that will only make things worse, instead of making things better.
Jocko Willink is right about creating a relationship based on mutual respect between yourself and your boss.
He is explaining to people that if they'll actually apply and do things to help others, doing THAT...in turn WILL also help them and help things to become better and be more enjoyable.
It's well-worth doing!
Jennifer Dana Well said, as long as your dealing with the right type of person yes. Definitely, I feel I am now finally in a situation where this can happen. Thank Goodness.
Clandestine operations, covert actions: This is so interesting. I just did a 2 month stint in the clerical side of a science laboratory and my supervisor was all about the 'you don't know this so I will do it for you' or 'you aren't up to speed so I will take this job away from you and do it myself'. But at the same time the person would only give very limited training and information about how to do the job. This is hugely frustrating when you're just trying to learn to do a job well. Give me the adequate tools and I can do the job. Some people can be very insecure about their position in the workplace, to the point where they will jeopardize a good working model or the potential for learning and improvement of a system.
Control the mind, don’t let outside forces control the mind. Move like water my friends.
Your sharing of this pearl of wisdom is much appreciated. Tango Mike....
that was FANTASTIC life advice. i wish I had heard that when I was 15
From observing the workplace I've noticed that arrogance from leaders can be a response to employees thinking they know more than the person in charge.
Keep your friends close and your enemy closer.
So much OSS in this. MIND BLOWN.
The tip has worked exceptionally for me but I've come across my first in corporate work where it doesn't work. I've noticed that any positive feedback from the client I received she would either hang up, or remove me from tasks or, the most recent email from the client with positive feedback, I lost the work - she redelegated it to someone else. I never took credit for the work, I made her look good in front of the clients (even though before me working on the task the CEOs of each of the files received complaints about her) and she removed me from the task. I have no idea what more I could have done. She then told my boss I was underperforming. Fortunately, he brought it to my attention and let her speak and I got to address the issues she raised. She said she'll give me more work and I've reached out to her, asked her if she had time to discuss any tasks today, asked if she could let me know when she's available to talk about tasks .....I'll ask her tomorrow again seeking work. Again, I have no idea what I've done or why she doesn't want to
Jocko Podcast #7 Q&A was so intense, thank you
Translation:
"Don't make those above you work any harder than they have to".
Respect is earned, you dont give that shit away for free
just ran into this channel. god damn so many truths.
Having incompetent leaders in the civilian world that should not be doing a job isn't uncommon and sometimes you just can't fix stupid. I most of my recent jobs I was brought in as a subject matter expert, it still amazes me that management members want to make decisions on the subject matter that they hired me to implement and/or fix without having any clue about how it works. There are people that are bad bosses no matter how much you try to support them.
My current platoon sergeant will keep going out of his way to harass me. I came here to get answers as to why I keep getting personal attacks when I genuinely ask for help. I'm losing my mind because he keeps using very specific triggers to my anxiety to hurt me. If I don't take the bait the first time, he drops five more hooks, if those don't work, it's 5 more for each hook casted. I don't even want to bring him down, I want to support him. I don't want his job, I just want to live my life, he's learned how to BS knowledge and figure stuff out well, but his knowledge is all outdated. I do respect him. He's a freaking sergeant first class, I'm just a specialist, I keep trying to build a relationship, trust, and I keep just getting hurt. My anxiety is at an all time high and I get more resilient with each time, I get further each time, and yet he won't just stop with personal attacks. I get it, he doesn't like me. How am I supposed to keep working in this kind of hostile environment, I didn't do anything but try to help the man, I didn't talk down to him once. I don't know what the hell to do anymore.
I often feel like Jocko is talking to me in his videos. He’s a cool guy to say the least
I'd better start applying and doing what you are explaining for me to do in this video clip.
Immediately!
Thank you, Jocko!!😎😊
I would do this when trying to get the company to buy a new/used piece of equipment. Do the justifiable footwork to help the manager/foreman understand why this machine is important to have. It's just helping.
This is the best way of getting arseholes promoted whilst keeping yourself down.
I wonder what Jocko would answer to this impression. I don't mean morally but honestly from his experience.
It’s a different approach in the private sector
No everything comes to light!
Whatever is in the dark will come to light
Very true cause I knew someone who kept setting up the manager for failure who didn't have the experience which gotten her dismissed from the job.
Thank you for the videos guys. Your podcast is a must listen every Wednesday and I appreciate you.
True leadership. Thanks Joko
in the army i have a few 'ego maniac' sgts. This is by far the best advice I've heard on how to deal with them. guess what? playing the game can be can be fun...