@@hassanjacobs7506 Sheep do not follow any leader in the herd - they only do what the nearest sheep to them is doing. And, yes, they will follow the nearest sheep to them off of a cliff. But that is not the same as following an established leader.
@@laurivaisanen6918 I think about that a lot, like is all this information I am getting from Jocko, other books about business, habits, and self-improvement something that could have helped me 10 years ago at 23 years old, would I have listened? Probably not I was an asshole lol but who knows, at least I have it now at 33 and still young as shit and can make major changes.
@@ClockwerkIndustries Also I really think you need to have some things happen in your life. Like I realized some things about how to be a leader when I had one terrible leader in my workplace.
I could've used it this summer. During a late night staff meeting, I chose to defend myself against a boss and his crony last summer. He was under the impression that I was in the wrong during a dispute with his crony that happened earlier in the day. I wasn't. In fact, I had actually handled the situation exactly how he told me I should've _(i.e., I've known him for 20 years and already knew what he expected me to do)._ Yet, he still tried to treat me like "the bad guy." And, I didn't want to look weak in front of my peers/subordinates. So, it got heated, and he kicked me out _(marooning me in the middle nowhere, 600+ miles from home)._ I called him a "fucking asshole" on the way out the door 🤣. I still don't regret it. Would still do the same thing even after watching Jocko's video. *Guy was a bad leader and a disgrace in my mind. I just couldn't tolerate that.*
My goal is excellence in everything I do. This is why I listen and watch. Understanding and encouraging understanding is key in so many areas of life. We are all always either building or destroying/languishing.
Great advice for an aspiring leader! I’m 20 years old but sometimes find myself in that “buffer” position between the boys and the boss in my job. Supporting the chain of command to keep the system alive while preserving morale amongst the crew seems ideal.
Great advice on keeping it professional when the the boss is a bad leader and there are both good and bad leaders in both the work place and the military just keep grinding and do the job until its done
I’ve worked for the fire department for 25 years. I’ve had good bosses and bad ones. With bad bosses I’ve always told the guys to focus on the mission. A good or bad plan doesn’t matter we will accomplish the mission. Great topic !
Honesty is always the best policy. As long as you keep an open attitude for learning....people will always respect the fact you're trying to improve but also trying to share your knowledge. I still struggle with imposter syndrome but no one can take away the respect I share with subordinates. I'm learning from them too.
Absolutely on point, guys. It has been sobering for me to realize that my worst characteristics have been a shining example to others -- of what to avoid. At the same time, I've come to realize that the very best I can achieve in this life is to be an example to others of what to follow myself -- of how to be. When sound principles are elevated above self-interest, everybody benefits -- leaders and followers. The unprincipled leader is still an (unwitting) example and therefore an opportunity to see an underlying principle.
Thanks for this. Makes me feel so much better about one of my last jobs as a leader, where I did have to walk this fine line. You guys are making me see that I could have done better, but that I grasped the problem and really did try to walk the line between acknowledging the bad orders while maintaining professionalism and supporting the chain of command. Great segment, this clip is mandatory leadership viewing, it's one of the thorniest problems that anyone who leads will eventually encounter.
Hey Jocko, just wanted to say, I started my first job as a junior dev about a couple of months ago and have been trying to take extreme ownership. My bosses are very impressed! They say rarely do they let someone do so much so soon. I can’t thank you enough for the simple and actionable advice you provide. Timeless and applicable everywhere. Thank you.
Man I needed to hear this. Been dealing with horrible leadership from my main boss for a few years now. Love this podcast. Keep them coming! Wish so many could hear this advice.
A lot of times, I’ll hear managers throw leadership under the bus (they think the leader “deserves” it for having authentically poor leadership skills). But this undermines EVERYTHING that leader does. TRUE - employees KNOW bad leadership when they see it (or more typically, they don’t see it, because the leader is not visible). 1. Build that relationship with the boss so you CAN push back when you need to. 2. Say to your boss, “hey this isn’t good.” 3. Then say to your team, “This is what she said, this is her reason why we’re doing it.” This gives your team an answer. 4. Don’t be truthful with your team (by saying Boss doesn’t “get it”). “There may be better ways, but this is the decision and now it’s up to US to make it work.” Don’t make it personal to the BOSS but make it about the MISSION.
Not that every single podcast isn't stellar but this one I can personally relate to. Dealt with exactly this type of situation many years ago and very recently as well. It played out exactly like he's describing. Comes down to I had just recently read a scripture or 2 about humility. I incorporated those scriptures along with others about truth. Waahlaaaa! (Could be a relationship involving kids, a band, a business venture etc.)
We once had a captain who never seen a ship in his entite career and life and was ejected from his desk into the captain’s seat for service. He did some damage but not where supposed to and went hiding when things got hot relying completely on every crew member to get the show going. We litteraly carried him through every command. But he learned very well and was very appriciative to every single one of us. It didnt matter what your problem was he would help you if he could. He gave us all so much extra leave and bonusses, FUCK ME!
This is great advice that everyone who supervises someone should take to heart. Its easy to fall in line with either your boss or subordinates but neither will get you the best results. If you're a "yes man" you lose the respect of your subordinates and they won't give you their all and if you just shit on your boss's plan you're subordinates may support you but not the plan and will once again not give it their all.
Interesting answer. I think honesty is important, but understanding that respect and diplomacy goes a long way. The point is, you might need to accept the decisions of the chain of command even if you don't agree with it, but then make the best of what you have to work with
Practical Inspiration you're above the law and truth. I learned through these 6 yrs your education of Law School University and your subtle writing skills and your yrs of doing what you do is above the truth Fransico Marin saying home depot is slander someone influenced Judge
The middle ground (it sounds like to me) is trying to make the best of a bad situation: -try to talk to superior and reason with him so you don't appear weak or sheepish to your men, and also maybe you can convince your boss to change his mind -if boss does not change his mind, or does not budge much, explain the situation to your men, take ownership of the situation, and do your best with your team to execute the instructions/orders given to you Shows your men that you recognize that you have a bad superior, you tried to reason with him on your and their behalf, and even when you did not get your way, you do not simply lose hope in the situation or vent petty frustration. Instead, you try to make your superior's bad decision(s) work in spite of him.
When I was in the NY Army National Guard all of the leadership (Officers/NCO's) were weak. I was reading the Dichotomy of leadership and as I was reading it the words already in my mind were being told to me again by you. I was so enraged and disgusted by the weakness of my leadership I actually stopped reading the book beacause none of the leadership were executing any of the positive qualitites described in your book, but they were doing all of the negative qualities. I even reccommended The Dichotomy of Leadership to my Company Commander in a survey along with everyone else in our company. I was a PV2. I was so lost in the fog of negativity shrouding my personal life in addition to my lack of understanding how the Army even worked (because noone explained it to me or even attempted to) that I chose to leave the Army instead of staying in. I joined the Army to become a stronger version of myself which I understand is selfish, but we all are to some degree. However, after thinking about the matter extensively, I couldn't see a good enough reason to stay in the Army.
This is the first Jocko podcast that I have noticed language was it really necessary was it really professional. Because I enjoy these podcasts I enjoy sharing them with my teens the language makes it impossible to do so or me and my family
Grant Armbruster As my scoutmaster once said, you can show a kid something with profanity in it but once he walks around and repeats the profanity, then that is ignorance
@@danielrushford4393 as a Christian I am to avoid profanity at all possibility I'm not saying that having work professionally both in the military and with union members as a manager I have made a big deal out of it I haven't. But when it comes to people using language around my children I will tell them yet please don't use that sort of language around children. Since I have purchased all of Jaco's children's books and enjoy sharing Jocko's motivation and words of wisdom when he uses words that I don't use that are crude or profane it is difficult for me to share his message
@@danielrushford4393 I would also say that using profanity is ignorance correct but are you saying choco is simply ignorant or you saying that repeating Jocko would be ignorant. Because I don't think Jackie was ignorant I just think that this would have crude language is unnecessary
@@chadspencer7629 Wow, that is a good idea. I like the idea. I really do. I still wish that great leader is like Jocko. Would refrain from using such crude language on such a public forum. I know that language can be crude and sometimes those are the only words that Express. And convey the ideas because are best left done in private
This goes back on your playing the game pod cast too. Play the game build the relationships and you might be able to influence that leader and make him a better one by the end of it while buffering and protecting your guys
I hope the service guys listen to yall. I wish I would have had y'all to listen to because that other way really is a killer to motivation. I motion for a mandatory Jocko/Echo power point hour a day for all services. Thank you MEN. God Bless. Q
@@rubbercable That is an incorrect translation. You accept the bad leader, because you respect the chain of command. You play it smart and wait for the right times to make moves. You don't take shit but you don't whine either.
@@O_Canada Yes, but perhaps the perspective of the bad leader is valuable from his/her point of view. I think Jocko is very on point here. Lead up and down the chain of command, jiu jitsu etc.
Rank is just a position a it could be low rank or a higher authority. Really in all honest its pretty irrelevant to the actions that a person is displaying behind the whatever rank you are. If someone tells me you how I should respect thier rank. That just shows me how egotistical they are.
good advice works for many types of leaders, but only to a point. some in the leadership position are intentionally the way they are and no middle ground, no amount of patience, etc., will help you, its their way at all costs and they intend to have sacrifices to make sure that happens. that is why the mortality rate in officers especially lieutenants during the vietnam war was so high, a practice i wish we used during the gulf war. i'd like to see if his opinion on this and see if it changes when he is the one the commander intends to screw at all costs even though he knows you don't deserve it and doesn't give a shit. some commanders for example have one way to lead by fear, etc., they do not care about your opinion, they intend to screw over a few good soldiers to make sure everyone else will not question them, and they fully intend to inflict needless casualties even in situations that wouldn't normally have such a risk just to show everyone who's in charge, you do it their way or else. now i did my best to practice the exact things he speaks of, however when your leader decides he's going to fuck you over, at all costs, not because you did anything to deserve it, that line of thinking goes out the window, especially when that commanders intentions for anyone is not good, not well intended at all.
When I was in, in a wartime situation, if your LT was asking you to cross an open field surrounded by trees, knowing heavy fire is probable and landmines are possible and your brothers could get shot and or die. LT get the first friendly fire. Facts.
@jockowillink, @echocharles, so I'm listening to 210 at the moment reviewing Jockos new book with Dave Berke, and you mentioned a "mutiny" where a bad leader was replaced, I've heard you refer in passing to the event on several occasions, I'd be interested in hearing a few more details in the context of the discussion in this except (all 15min of it) around supporting a bad leader. if it's already been discussed more fully, could someone point me to the episode number?
A lesser evil is a good when the only choice to that is worse. The same for what is good: a lesser good is always evil when you can choose something better. That, of course, is the easy part of it, lol. Now for the discernment and energy and courage: that´s the hard part.
Focusing on the plan rather than the man is good advice, and probably your best chance of getting the man to consider another plan. Asking for clarification on the actual objective and why they've picked this ... perplexing means to achieve it may help you successfully present an alternative the boss can accept.
I don't get why. I like it when ppl challenge me, some of my best ideas came from ppl trying to tell me their perspectives. I don;t get how anyone gets anything done without sharing their points of view truthfully and directly. And honesly most of the time they get nothing done at all. They just spend hours and days and months and years in an endless loop of banal attempts at being "considerate" and lieing their faces off. Their grave stones would honestly say: "Here lieth Mr Smith....he ALMOST said what he thought once. The strain gave him a heart attack."
Saying someone is bad is most times subjective. The question should illicit a follow-up question - what actions do you define as bad? But I feel for military folks in battle scenarios potentially really having a bad leader could mean the difference between life and death.
Dealing with this thing right now. I attempt this tactic as described. Difficult. As the boys are quick to call the perceived defender of the bad leader as a sellout and part of the problem. That's THEIR tactic.
its easier if there's a clear end in sight. like we'll do it for the next week and then we're done. otherwise....hard to understand why you wouldn't just replace the bad leader.
I chose to leave when a bad boss was consistently driving the organization to ruin. Not in the middle of a project and not without trying to reason with the boss. Stepping away in a responsible manner has to be an option ... except in the military, of course. But even there, people can refuse an unlawful order. Degrees of difficulty.
What do you do when your leader has a very aggressive personality and ends up having a sort of abusive relationship with his next in command? How do you build the healthy boundaries that are necessary so you can give constructive pushback without poking his insecurities?
I have developed my relationship with a bad boss for a long period of time, and that relationship helps cover my ass when I do things correctly despite his opinion. I have a lot more freedom in my workplace than most, but the relationship building is important regardless of boss quality. It gives me the slack I need to fix situations and builds trust with my coworkers. I don't need to undermine his authority to make things work smoothly because of that relationship. Semper Gumby.
@Jocko what i can do if my wife Always sabotage me? i mean, when the things are going to a right direction, she made fight, create problems, she is very jealous. i'm made the possible to be a good husband, a good father. All days a Wake up 4:30am, make exercices, study (a live in brazil and want a better life for my Family), i made the lunch, then i take the bus and go work, i study in bus, 30 min, work with drawning for enginnering, take the bus again, go to home, study in bus, do the homework, make food for my son, study again to be a police a day, but, she dont colaborate, i love she but i dont know what i can do... have a advice?
Very timely Q&A for me. My boss is so amazingly bad that a third of the staff is seeking mental health treatment, 80% of which is directly attributable to his command climate and the other 20% was aggravated by it.
What if the boss will not have a candid relationship? I'm in the middle, I try to show support and provide solutions to problems that are an ongoing pattern. I'm not even allowed to take ownership of my mistakes by implementing the necessary corrections. But yet I'll get the blame for the mistakes and future ones.
The prefixial attachment... "Hey guys... this is a bit strange... but..." AND all of a sudden, everyone gets it. It's a drill... It's a special maneuver... It's some kind of weird assignment... something. The trick is just getting participation... get your "guys" to do the thing... Not everything is dead-on target up and everything. Once in a while, you just do the deal, to keep the business going. It happens. ...and I still have the paper-weight, with the silver dollar drilled dead-center... and the notation "1200 m cold bore" ;o)
Yeah, I made a post on another comment explaining how I stood up to a "leader" who backed me into a corner bc I had dispute with his crony. This crony had been annoying all of my peers and subordinates. And, I'm not exaggerating when I say "all of them." I got kicked out of the organization for standing up for myself and for my peers. No, it didn't end well for me. But, at least I had earned a lot of respect from my peers for standing up. I felt like being on the fence or appeasing the boss would've been weak. I used "insubordination" as a last resort. I still don't regret my decision. It was the right thing to do in that situation. *I wanted to make it crystal clear to my subordinates that I do not follow bad leaders.*
Wolves constantly challenge each-other in order to insure the strongest, smartest person is always the leader. This problem can technically be resolved via challenge bad leadership in a constructive manner and never cover up for incompetence.....I'm thinking of going off to live with wolves btw. I know just where to find them. :P
I have a piece of advice. Sometimes you have to train your superior. Such as say you are in IT, or in construction, train your boss. I can't work these hours, or no not today I have to take my kid to the doctor. If you don't push back especially in todays America where your wages stay the same but rent keeps going up. Don't be rude but don't take it. Don't F bombs or be loud, just do you and they will get it or don't. Also you can always look for another job.
I’ve been doing this type of thing for as long as I can remember man just to motivate people sometimes but the the thing is a lot of times I get not benefit out of doing that like I don’t even know why I’m defending my Chain of conmand
My first leadership class instructor showed a clip from Saving Private Ryan "Gripes go up, not down." - Sometimes this is easy. Most of the time it is not. The OCS story at the end of the video did not win me prizes. The passive aggressive technique of demonstrating the absurdity of the order by over complying with the order. I guess I have some apologies to make. I was pretty good at my job, but I was such a pain in the ass.
If you fail to acknowledge that the plan is probably flawed, then you are implicitly telling your team that you are going to throw them under the bus if the plan fails.
"Hey guys, leadership decided that we need to commit mass suicide. And we're just going to have to do it." This is why Patton said "Never tell your men how to do something. Just give them the objective, and sit back and be amazed at how they get it done."
Jocko is only partially right. In the military you have to drink the cool aid, its what you sign up for so you can't really tell a superior to go shit in a hat his idea is bad or you will face severe consequences. In civilian life you can and the worst that will happen is you get fired which is no big deal if you are working for a bad leader anyways. In the military you have to embrace the suck or else even if the commander in chief sends you into wars that you know are wrong you must go without question. There is a difference and I don't think that was emphasized enough.
Middle management where I work will NOT push back against upper management. They’re too intimidated and subservient. Also, I HATE following bosses who I don’t trust or respect. Typically, it’s a boss who is less competent at his job than I am at mine.
is your team mentally challenged? can they not tell the difference between bad and good decision making processes? are they also unable to tell the difference between good and bad food...bc if so, u might have a bigger problem. You will run into a terf-war with the local rats at some point. They carry deadly diseases. :P
Andra Book ~ any reasonable leader knows you don’t bad mouth your boss. Jocko, among other strong leaders, confirmed it with his statement. Not sure what your problem is but sort it out.
@@izzojoseph2 there's a difference between "bad mouth" and automatically agree with and defend clearly bad leadership. The title here is "should you defend bad leaders to your team?". I don't have a problem. I was illustrating the fact that ppl can tell the difference bw good and bad things in their lives. You should acknowledge that difference too in certain scenarios, and trust your team to be fully functional adults who can tell the difference between bad mouthing and dealing with a bad situation.
Andra Book ~ I rescind my previous comment and add an apology on top of it. Well said. I still stand by my comment about bad mouthing. If you personally have no problem with it ~ have at it. I’ve seen it go south. Yeah, I hope my team can tell the difference but once I throw an insult or make a negative comment it sets a standard. I don’t mean that I have to be fake happy about bullshit. I do mean, when leading, think twice before you speak about a boss who’s a dipshit. Execute orders better than expected. If you have a problem with a boss take it up with the boss. I’ve seen a negative comment said in jest ~ hell I’ve MADE a negative comment joking ~ and had it bite me in the ass.
I don't even have to listen. Jockonwould say, "will you be able to make a difference when you get kicked out? " ie when Paton was kicked out for being too confident
Example: we are completely understaffed, and boss decides to have a meltdown and send the staff which is available to clean and neglect clients.....next day, long speech about how we failed as a team. Hard to explain that. There's zero benefit. It would be like, we're under attack....so, lets go knit. Non-sensical.
"Man is the only animal that will follow an unstable leader." - Cesar Millan, The Dog Whisperer.
Sheep do also. Sheep will follow each other off a cliff
@@hassanjacobs7506 Sheep do not follow any leader in the herd - they only do what the nearest sheep to them is doing. And, yes, they will follow the nearest sheep to them off of a cliff. But that is not the same as following an established leader.
Women are the best judges of men. They will only feel attraction to alpha men.
@@nerychristian haha ikr
thank you for posting this, lol!
This is Priceless advice that I wish I had known 12 years ago in my field. Thanks for breaking this tough one down more.
Do you think that you would have been ready to this information at that time. I wouldnt have been and I thought myself smart :D
@@laurivaisanen6918 I think about that a lot, like is all this information I am getting from Jocko, other books about business, habits, and self-improvement something that could have helped me 10 years ago at 23 years old, would I have listened? Probably not I was an asshole lol but who knows, at least I have it now at 33 and still young as shit and can make major changes.
This is BS to perpetuate slave morality (Nietzsche).
@@ClockwerkIndustries Also I really think you need to have some things happen in your life. Like I realized some things about how to be a leader when I had one terrible leader in my workplace.
I needed this right now!!
Same here brother! They say God works in mysterious ways but it isn't mysterious at all, observe the patterns. All the best to you!!
I could've used it this summer. During a late night staff meeting, I chose to defend myself against a boss and his crony last summer. He was under the impression that I was in the wrong during a dispute with his crony that happened earlier in the day. I wasn't. In fact, I had actually handled the situation exactly how he told me I should've _(i.e., I've known him for 20 years and already knew what he expected me to do)._ Yet, he still tried to treat me like "the bad guy." And, I didn't want to look weak in front of my peers/subordinates. So, it got heated, and he kicked me out _(marooning me in the middle nowhere, 600+ miles from home)._ I called him a "fucking asshole" on the way out the door 🤣. I still don't regret it. Would still do the same thing even after watching Jocko's video. *Guy was a bad leader and a disgrace in my mind. I just couldn't tolerate that.*
You hit that nail on the head. Once the team trusts you, and you make that mundane task into something worth doing, the team has won.
My goal is excellence in everything I do. This is why I listen and watch.
Understanding and encouraging understanding is key in so many areas of life.
We are all always either building or destroying/languishing.
Great advice for an aspiring leader! I’m 20 years old but sometimes find myself in that “buffer” position between the boys and the boss in my job. Supporting the chain of command to keep the system alive while preserving morale amongst the crew seems ideal.
Great advice on keeping it professional when the the boss is a bad leader and there are both good and bad leaders in both the work place and the military just keep grinding and do the job until its done
👍👍
I’ve worked for the fire department for 25 years. I’ve had good bosses and bad ones. With bad bosses I’ve always told the guys to focus on the mission. A good or bad plan doesn’t matter we will accomplish the mission. Great topic !
Honesty is always the best policy. As long as you keep an open attitude for learning....people will always respect the fact you're trying to improve but also trying to share your knowledge. I still struggle with imposter syndrome but no one can take away the respect I share with subordinates. I'm learning from them too.
Absolutely on point, guys. It has been sobering for me to realize that my worst characteristics have been a shining example to others -- of what to avoid. At the same time, I've come to realize that the very best I can achieve in this life is to be an example to others of what to follow myself -- of how to be.
When sound principles are elevated above self-interest, everybody benefits -- leaders and followers. The unprincipled leader is still an (unwitting) example and therefore an opportunity to see an underlying principle.
Thanks for this. Makes me feel so much better about one of my last jobs as a leader, where I did have to walk this fine line. You guys are making me see that I could have done better, but that I grasped the problem and really did try to walk the line between acknowledging the bad orders while maintaining professionalism and supporting the chain of command. Great segment, this clip is mandatory leadership viewing, it's one of the thorniest problems that anyone who leads will eventually encounter.
Hey Jocko, just wanted to say, I started my first job as a junior dev about a couple of months ago and have been trying to take extreme ownership. My bosses are very impressed! They say rarely do they let someone do so much so soon.
I can’t thank you enough for the simple and actionable advice you provide. Timeless and applicable everywhere. Thank you.
Thank you for breaking this down! I’ve seen this happen but never put it all together. Thanks Jocko and Echo!
Man I needed to hear this. Been dealing with horrible leadership from my main boss for a few years now. Love this podcast. Keep them coming! Wish so many could hear this advice.
A lot of times, I’ll hear managers throw leadership under the bus (they think the leader “deserves” it for having authentically poor leadership skills). But this undermines EVERYTHING that leader does. TRUE - employees KNOW bad leadership when they see it (or more typically, they don’t see it, because the leader is not visible). 1. Build that relationship with the boss so you CAN push back when you need to. 2. Say to your boss, “hey this isn’t good.” 3. Then say to your team, “This is what she said, this is her reason why we’re doing it.” This gives your team an answer. 4. Don’t be truthful with your team (by saying Boss doesn’t “get it”). “There may be better ways, but this is the decision and now it’s up to US to make it work.” Don’t make it personal to the BOSS but make it about the MISSION.
Wow!
Best advice I have received in the last 5 year Jocko. You are the Kobe to my world. Thank you Jocko & Eco.
Not that every single podcast isn't stellar but this one I can personally relate to. Dealt with exactly this type of situation many years ago and very recently as well. It played out exactly like he's describing. Comes down to I had just recently read a scripture or 2 about humility. I incorporated those scriptures along with others about truth. Waahlaaaa!
(Could be a relationship involving kids, a band, a business venture etc.)
Some good information there. You guys always give me insight that I didn't have before.
Thank you so much. This is good 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
We once had a captain who never seen a ship in his entite career and life and was ejected from his desk into the captain’s seat for service. He did some damage but not where supposed to and went hiding when things got hot relying completely on every crew member to get the show going. We litteraly carried him through every command. But he learned very well and was very appriciative to every single one of us. It didnt matter what your problem was he would help you if he could. He gave us all so much extra leave and bonusses, FUCK ME!
Thanks for this. This is something I really needed to hear right now.
Thank you both for the instruction. Also, there is some definite thunder behind your voice Sir, HOOYAH!!
Spot on. 💯 part of building good leaders is believing in people, being being able to season your word with salt is good counsel. Truth with salt.
Thank you for sharing
This is great advice that everyone who supervises someone should take to heart. Its easy to fall in line with either your boss or subordinates but neither will get you the best results. If you're a "yes man" you lose the respect of your subordinates and they won't give you their all and if you just shit on your boss's plan you're subordinates may support you but not the plan and will once again not give it their all.
Interesting answer. I think honesty is important, but understanding that respect and diplomacy goes a long way. The point is, you might need to accept the decisions of the chain of command even if you don't agree with it, but then make the best of what you have to work with
Practical Inspiration
you're above the law
and truth.
I learned
through these 6 yrs
your education
of Law School University
and your subtle writing skills
and your yrs of doing
what you do is
above the truth
Fransico Marin saying
home depot is
slander
someone influenced Judge
The middle ground (it sounds like to me) is trying to make the best of a bad situation:
-try to talk to superior and reason with him so you don't appear weak or sheepish to your men, and also maybe you can convince your boss to change his mind
-if boss does not change his mind, or does not budge much, explain the situation to your men, take ownership of the situation, and do your best with your team to execute the instructions/orders given to you
Shows your men that you recognize that you have a bad superior, you tried to reason with him on your and their behalf, and even when you did not get your way, you do not simply lose hope in the situation or vent petty frustration. Instead, you try to make your superior's bad decision(s) work in spite of him.
Passive aggression? I love it.
Great topic
Tip: If you want to be happier, healthier and have more energy in life. Define what motivates you to change, look at them every day and take action
that's some hippie crap. what motivates you to change is sometimes ugly to look at, you shouldn't constantly obsess over ugliness
When I was in the NY Army National Guard all of the leadership (Officers/NCO's) were weak. I was reading the Dichotomy of leadership and as I was reading it the words already in my mind were being told to me again by you. I was so enraged and disgusted by the weakness of my leadership I actually stopped reading the book beacause none of the leadership were executing any of the positive qualitites described in your book, but they were doing all of the negative qualities. I even reccommended The Dichotomy of Leadership to my Company Commander in a survey along with everyone else in our company. I was a PV2. I was so lost in the fog of negativity shrouding my personal life in addition to my lack of understanding how the Army even worked (because noone explained it to me or even attempted to) that I chose to leave the Army instead of staying in. I joined the Army to become a stronger version of myself which I understand is selfish, but we all are to some degree. However, after thinking about the matter extensively, I couldn't see a good enough reason to stay in the Army.
This subject makes me think of the movie "Saving Private Ryan." Tom Hanks role.
Wow yep
Thank you for sharing your relevant war story 😐
This is really good and practical info
Put them forward to become better. Good/Great Leaders aren't born, they're made.
I love it when jocko gets excited about a question his face lights up like a kids on Christmas Day 😂😂
[squirt]
This is the first Jocko podcast that I have noticed language was it really necessary was it really professional. Because I enjoy these podcasts I enjoy sharing them with my teens the language makes it impossible to do so or me and my family
Grant Armbruster As my scoutmaster once said, you can show a kid something with profanity in it but once he walks around and repeats the profanity, then that is ignorance
@@danielrushford4393 as a Christian I am to avoid profanity at all possibility I'm not saying that having work professionally both in the military and with union members as a manager I have made a big deal out of it I haven't. But when it comes to people using language around my children I will tell them yet please don't use that sort of language around children. Since I have purchased all of Jaco's children's books and enjoy sharing Jocko's motivation and words of wisdom when he uses words that I don't use that are crude or profane it is difficult for me to share his message
@@danielrushford4393 I would also say that using profanity is ignorance correct but are you saying choco is simply ignorant or you saying that repeating Jocko would be ignorant. Because I don't think Jackie was ignorant I just think that this would have crude language is unnecessary
Write down when he swears the timestamp.
Turn the volume down when it happens.
@@chadspencer7629 Wow, that is a good idea. I like the idea. I really do. I still wish that great leader is like Jocko. Would refrain from using such crude language on such a public forum. I know that language can be crude and sometimes those are the only words that Express. And convey the ideas because are best left done in private
Thats my problem I call my bosses out on their bullshit all the time and it probably effects my chances of promotion.
Subbed based on this one. Good advice.
I would love to hear one of those OCS stories from Jocko about going to the n'th degree, sounds hilarious
We did it Jocko all Awesome Sauce+... ~Raistlin.
8:52 Jocko just made me psyched to dig some holes
The BOYS
This goes back on your playing the game pod cast too. Play the game build the relationships and you might be able to influence that leader and make him a better one by the end of it while buffering and protecting your guys
I hope the service guys listen to yall. I wish I would have had y'all to listen to because that other way really is a killer to motivation. I motion for a mandatory Jocko/Echo power point hour a day for all services. Thank you MEN. God Bless.
Q
This is insight I'll definitely keep since I ended up cracking at my last job. What's the long term goal while I keep the pressure at bay?
Just an exceptional question...I have faced it many times...
Respect the chain of command, not necessarily the person. Embrace the suck.
Translation: Respect the Bad Leader.
@@rubbercable That is an incorrect translation. You accept the bad leader, because you respect the chain of command. You play it smart and wait for the right times to make moves. You don't take shit but you don't whine either.
@@O_Canada Yes, but perhaps the perspective of the bad leader is valuable from his/her point of view. I think Jocko is very on point here. Lead up and down the chain of command, jiu jitsu etc.
No hate echo you often make stuff more clear for me but I gotta ask: am I the only one who thought echos voice doesn’t match his body?
Try to gain a different perspective, and then go back and look at echo and his voice and you will see that it fits him quite well.
Adam Iannetti he’s just a quiet dude.
@@muzzy2316 he's not quiet dude. He does just as much talking as Jocko.
Is Echo Hispanic?
@@jacobwalls452 Hawaiian
Respect the Rank not the person.
Rank is just a position a it could be low rank or a higher authority. Really in all honest its pretty irrelevant to the actions that a person is displaying behind the whatever rank you are.
If someone tells me you how I should respect thier rank. That just shows me how egotistical they are.
good advice works for many types of leaders, but only to a point. some in the leadership position are intentionally the way they are and no middle ground, no amount of patience, etc., will help you, its their way at all costs and they intend to have sacrifices to make sure that happens. that is why the mortality rate in officers especially lieutenants during the vietnam war was so high, a practice i wish we used during the gulf war. i'd like to see if his opinion on this and see if it changes when he is the one the commander intends to screw at all costs even though he knows you don't deserve it and doesn't give a shit. some commanders for example have one way to lead by fear, etc., they do not care about your opinion, they intend to screw over a few good soldiers to make sure everyone else will not question them, and they fully intend to inflict needless casualties even in situations that wouldn't normally have such a risk just to show everyone who's in charge, you do it their way or else. now i did my best to practice the exact things he speaks of, however when your leader decides he's going to fuck you over, at all costs, not because you did anything to deserve it, that line of thinking goes out the window, especially when that commanders intentions for anyone is not good, not well intended at all.
When I was in, in a wartime situation, if your LT was asking you to cross an open field surrounded by trees, knowing heavy fire is probable and landmines are possible and your brothers could get shot and or die. LT get the first friendly fire. Facts.
Why do people have the nerve do dislike such a good video
@jockowillink, @echocharles, so I'm listening to 210 at the moment reviewing Jockos new book with Dave Berke, and you mentioned a "mutiny" where a bad leader was replaced, I've heard you refer in passing to the event on several occasions, I'd be interested in hearing a few more details in the context of the discussion in this except (all 15min of it) around supporting a bad leader. if it's already been discussed more fully, could someone point me to the episode number?
A lesser evil is a good when the only choice to that is worse. The same for what is good: a lesser good is always evil when you can choose something better. That, of course, is the easy part of it, lol. Now for the discernment and energy and courage: that´s the hard part.
Focusing on the plan rather than the man is good advice, and probably your best chance of getting the man to consider another plan. Asking for clarification on the actual objective and why they've picked this ... perplexing means to achieve it may help you successfully present an alternative the boss can accept.
Amen.
The truth is like swinging a two handed sword....sucks but that is real
I don't get why. I like it when ppl challenge me, some of my best ideas came from ppl trying to tell me their perspectives. I don;t get how anyone gets anything done without sharing their points of view truthfully and directly. And honesly most of the time they get nothing done at all. They just spend hours and days and months and years in an endless loop of banal attempts at being "considerate" and lieing their faces off. Their grave stones would honestly say: "Here lieth Mr Smith....he ALMOST said what he thought once. The strain gave him a heart attack."
Saying someone is bad is most times subjective. The question should illicit a follow-up question - what actions do you define as bad? But I feel for military folks in battle scenarios potentially really having a bad leader could mean the difference between life and death.
What you explained in minute 3 is called borrowed trust. There’s been a tons of research on doing this and it’s generally considered a bad thing.
Dealing with this thing right now. I attempt this tactic as described. Difficult. As the boys are quick to call the perceived defender of the bad leader as a sellout and part of the problem. That's THEIR tactic.
its easier if there's a clear end in sight. like we'll do it for the next week and then we're done. otherwise....hard to understand why you wouldn't just replace the bad leader.
I chose to leave when a bad boss was consistently driving the organization to ruin. Not in the middle of a project and not without trying to reason with the boss. Stepping away in a responsible manner has to be an option ... except in the military, of course. But even there, people can refuse an unlawful order. Degrees of difficulty.
What do you do when your leader has a very aggressive personality and ends up having a sort of abusive relationship with his next in command? How do you build the healthy boundaries that are necessary so you can give constructive pushback without poking his insecurities?
We are all leaders,but there is only one who is more superior than the ones who follow.
There may be constraints that the boss can't disclose
I have developed my relationship with a bad boss for a long period of time, and that relationship helps cover my ass when I do things correctly despite his opinion. I have a lot more freedom in my workplace than most, but the relationship building is important regardless of boss quality. It gives me the slack I need to fix situations and builds trust with my coworkers. I don't need to undermine his authority to make things work smoothly because of that relationship. Semper Gumby.
So hard to do.
@Jocko what i can do if my wife Always sabotage me? i mean, when the things are going to a right direction, she made fight, create problems, she is very jealous. i'm made the possible to be a good husband, a good father. All days a Wake up 4:30am, make exercices, study (a live in brazil and want a better life for my Family), i made the lunch, then i take the bus and go work, i study in bus, 30 min, work with drawning for enginnering, take the bus again, go to home, study in bus, do the homework, make food for my son, study again to be a police a day, but, she dont colaborate, i love she but i dont know what i can do... have a advice?
mutiny on the bounty, baby
Very timely Q&A for me. My boss is so amazingly bad that a third of the staff is seeking mental health treatment, 80% of which is directly attributable to his command climate and the other 20% was aggravated by it.
I set ground WORK and let people step up rize too the challenge I set grown WORK then move on
What if the boss will not have a candid relationship? I'm in the middle, I try to show support and provide solutions to problems that are an ongoing pattern. I'm not even allowed to take ownership of my mistakes by implementing the necessary corrections. But yet I'll get the blame for the mistakes and future ones.
@Agent J that's funny, as a joke another employee said I'm the company scapegoat. I get it now. Seriously, thank you!
The prefixial attachment... "Hey guys... this is a bit strange... but..." AND all of a sudden, everyone gets it. It's a drill... It's a special maneuver... It's some kind of weird assignment... something. The trick is just getting participation... get your
"guys" to do the thing...
Not everything is dead-on target up and everything. Once in a while, you just do the deal, to keep the business going. It happens.
...and I still have the paper-weight, with the silver dollar drilled dead-center... and the notation "1200 m cold bore" ;o)
What can I do to make this better for both of us?
sometime decision on fence doesn't help sir
Yeah, I made a post on another comment explaining how I stood up to a "leader" who backed me into a corner bc I had dispute with his crony. This crony had been annoying all of my peers and subordinates. And, I'm not exaggerating when I say "all of them." I got kicked out of the organization for standing up for myself and for my peers. No, it didn't end well for me. But, at least I had earned a lot of respect from my peers for standing up. I felt like being on the fence or appeasing the boss would've been weak. I used "insubordination" as a last resort. I still don't regret my decision. It was the right thing to do in that situation. *I wanted to make it crystal clear to my subordinates that I do not follow bad leaders.*
Wolves constantly challenge each-other in order to insure the strongest, smartest person is always the leader. This problem can technically be resolved via challenge bad leadership in a constructive manner and never cover up for incompetence.....I'm thinking of going off to live with wolves btw. I know just where to find them. :P
verbal judo the shit of it !!!!!!!!!!
I have a piece of advice. Sometimes you have to train your superior. Such as say you are in IT, or in construction, train your boss. I can't work these hours, or no not today I have to take my kid to the doctor. If you don't push back especially in todays America where your wages stay the same but rent keeps going up. Don't be rude but don't take it. Don't F bombs or be loud, just do you and they will get it or don't. Also you can always look for another job.
I’ve been doing this type of thing for as long as I can remember man just to motivate people sometimes but the the thing is a lot of times I get not benefit out of doing that like I don’t even know why I’m defending my Chain of conmand
👍
Everything I am doing right now, Jocko is saying not to do 😅😅😅
GOOD, now you know
My first leadership class instructor showed a clip from Saving Private Ryan "Gripes go up, not down." - Sometimes this is easy. Most of the time it is not. The OCS story at the end of the video did not win me prizes. The passive aggressive technique of demonstrating the absurdity of the order by over complying with the order. I guess I have some apologies to make. I was pretty good at my job, but I was such a pain in the ass.
You need to make WWJD what would jocko do shirts and apparel!
Although this is a good tactic when you want people to continue being machines for you
If you fail to acknowledge that the plan is probably flawed, then you are implicitly telling your team that you are going to throw them under the bus if the plan fails.
"Hey guys, leadership decided that we need to commit mass suicide. And we're just going to have to do it." This is why Patton said "Never tell your men how to do something. Just give them the objective, and sit back and be amazed at how they get it done."
Jocko is only partially right. In the military you have to drink the cool aid, its what you sign up for so you can't really tell a superior to go shit in a hat his idea is bad or you will face severe consequences. In civilian life you can and the worst that will happen is you get fired which is no big deal if you are working for a bad leader anyways. In the military you have to embrace the suck or else even if the commander in chief sends you into wars that you know are wrong you must go without question. There is a difference and I don't think that was emphasized enough.
Literally just got through telling people to “play the game” the other day. Smh. So which is it?
Echo has bigger arms than Russian synthol kid
🤙💯
Middle management where I work will NOT push back against upper management. They’re too intimidated and subservient.
Also, I HATE following bosses who I don’t trust or respect. Typically, it’s a boss who is less competent at his job than I am at mine.
Do just enough
Malicious compliance it sounds like. Lmao
If you bad mouth the boss, you implicitly give permission for your team to bad mouth you.
is your team mentally challenged? can they not tell the difference between bad and good decision making processes? are they also unable to tell the difference between good and bad food...bc if so, u might have a bigger problem. You will run into a terf-war with the local rats at some point. They carry deadly diseases. :P
Andra Book ~ any reasonable leader knows you don’t bad mouth your boss. Jocko, among other strong leaders, confirmed it with his statement.
Not sure what your problem is but sort it out.
@@izzojoseph2 there's a difference between "bad mouth" and automatically agree with and defend clearly bad leadership. The title here is "should you defend bad leaders to your team?". I don't have a problem. I was illustrating the fact that ppl can tell the difference bw good and bad things in their lives. You should acknowledge that difference too in certain scenarios, and trust your team to be fully functional adults who can tell the difference between bad mouthing and dealing with a bad situation.
Andra Book ~ I rescind my previous comment and add an apology on top of it.
Well said.
I still stand by my comment about bad mouthing. If you personally have no problem with it ~ have at it.
I’ve seen it go south.
Yeah, I hope my team can tell the difference but once I throw an insult or make a negative comment it sets a standard.
I don’t mean that I have to be fake happy about bullshit. I do mean, when leading, think twice before you speak about a boss who’s a dipshit.
Execute orders better than expected. If you have a problem with a boss take it up with the boss.
I’ve seen a negative comment said in jest ~ hell I’ve MADE a negative comment joking ~ and had it bite me in the ass.
@@izzojoseph2 and thank you for the apology too :)
What if your boss is a terrible leader who is your own brother who robbed you and your other brother of your fair share of company money?
Would you fight for a bad president?
They kid was a stickler know he's not
I don't even have to listen. Jockonwould say, "will you be able to make a difference when you get kicked out? " ie when Paton was kicked out for being too confident
Hopefully the people who got Dakota’s teammates killed were talked about in a nuanced way by their underlings.
Example: we are completely understaffed, and boss decides to have a meltdown and send the staff which is available to clean and neglect clients.....next day, long speech about how we failed as a team. Hard to explain that. There's zero benefit. It would be like, we're under attack....so, lets go knit. Non-sensical.
KC MO