Medieval European Diversity is probably more simillar the way how China is diverse. To westerners , The Han Chinese, Mongolians, Uyghurs, Tibetans, Manchurians, etc are all the same , but in reality it's not the case. Each ethnic groups are all distinct from one another, they may influence each other, but they are their own thing. They have own language, their own values, their own cuisine, their fashion, and their own history, and I wish people realize that.
That is even true for nations as small as the Netherlands. The north, center and south are all vastly different and it all has to do with where the people came from originally and how it was ultimately formed well before and ultimately "finalized" after the Napoleon period. No one can understand the Fries if they speak their language and the south pronounce the G silently while the center pronounce it loudly. And that is for a nation less than 200 miles end to end.
There are some people pointing at the trade maps of the era and saying “look, the trade connection with Africa and Asia was there, so why there are no PoC?” They don’t realise that such trade would be highly unlikely. Traders from other continents would simply trade with local traders in the ports. These local traders were then specialists in trading with European landlocked areas. Imagine you are let’s say moorish trader. You have a ship and sail from Morroco to Venice. Then you leave your boat to rot in the port, pay harbour fees for several months when your ship is doing nothing, you buy wagons, hire escort and travel through dangerous areas to sell your goods in the Kingdom of Bohemia…and to show of your darker skin. Well…no. These traders were not stupid. They were clever wealthy people who used brain.
@@petrtupy5320 that is why people need to take a step back and look at it from a 15th century perspective. Long distance travel was measured in days and months, not mere hours like they are now. You can practically get anywhere in the known world inside of 24 hours if you have the means. And people had families they wanted to get back to as well. An overland trader wouldn’t want to embark on a trip that kept them from their families and in addition wrecked their bottom line with fees and tolls. Not to mention the dangers.
Exactly. The Silk Road and similar trade routes operated l;ike conveyor belts: individial merchants only traveled a few weeks before selling their stock and going home; those silks passed through many middlemen. So it's absurd to picture caravans of Chinese or Indian merchants trudging through central Europe. But to this add two significant legal barriers: 1) By Papal decree, Latin Christians (ie Catholics) were forbidden to have any commercial dealings with a Muslim (interchange in cities like Antioch was by way of Jewish intermediaries) 2) By Imperial decree, Muslims were forbidden to set foot within the Empire, on pain of death
Agreed. Plus there were some chinese (and other asian) and possibly even japanese goods coming to Europe (especially silk and chinaware). But it was not because a japanese trader would come all the way to Europe. It worked a bit like a relay race. A japanese trader would sell goods in China, from China it would be later taken by another trader to say Persia, from Persia to Anatolia the same way, from Anatolia through Venice (because they had a monopoly on oriental trade), and from Venice to other parts of Europe. All this without a single Japanese laying a foot in Europe until about the 16th century. Of course, the middle eastern and north african traders were much closer, but you talked about exactly this, so there's that.
Great research, but actually you could use a travel book by Jaroslav Lev of Rožmitál, who was first Czech to see a Blackman in Spain during his travel during reign of George of Poděbrady long after KCD story, so a Czech didn't saw a Blackman until end of 15th century. The most exotic to average town folks or villagers could see was a Arab trader or Mongolian/Turkic people.
I love that there is so much more information out there that support the same end conclusion when it comes down to early 15th century Bohemia / Central Europe.
What about gypsies? We can date them at least to 1416 in czech lands, so a travelling group of them could be possible. (If you want the official earliest date, then it’s 1423 when Zikmund signed some document that mentions them, but it was probably quite a while after they came here..)
@@Wolltazar Yes. That was truly some missed opportunity in KCD. Well, first mention describes them as ''stealing everywhere'', but some fortune-teller or seasonal worker would be very well possible. And actually a nice addition to the game.
@@blabla260 why not both? In Bohemian lands they are known for being great blacksmiths (same as Henry), fortune tellers, singers/musicians, jugglers, actors.. but also are known for not being scared of "borrowing" other people's possesions and living outside of a law obeying society
@@Wolltazar yes that could, but I don't think near town area's (maybe blacksmith), but a traveler's, villager's yes (Yet there was a prejudice against them well same for Jews).
I feel like Dan vavra and Tobi were smart and also smug about how they originally answered this in their early interviews with ign when the second one was freshly announced. They said “There will be more diversity and ethnicities in Kutna Hora than there was in the first game.” They were right. There were Poles, Germans, Czechs, Cumans, and I’m sure there will be many other different *European* ethnicities. So if anything, they got diversity, just not the one that they were crying for lmao
@@Gooeygiuseppe Dan is based and I love him for it. And it’s like mentioned in the video. 15th century. Things were just different back then. You can’t apply 21st century logic to it. You’ll end up with issues like Assassins Creed where they pretty much PO’d an entire country.
@@TheDutchTexanGames Exactly The BBC does that so often that they wonder why no one watches their “historical” dramas. It’s only a tiny subset of people that actually want that shit though, and other than the gameplay, story, writing, and world of KCD, that’s one of the reasons why I love it so much. They don’t have a message of 21st century ethnic theory, or they don’t even have a white supremacy agenda. They wanted to portray *their* history and culture as objectively grounded as possible, and they pulled it off. It’s their honesty, integrity, and passion for their work that makes me love Warhorse so much, and why they’ve become my favorite game studio to date.
Just some, I simply refuse to believe the majority is preoccupied with that. And honestly all those game publishers such as IGN and some people in the gaming community are just looking for rage clicks to feed their bottom line. Negativity sells. For me it was simple. Just stating "It's the 15th century, deal with it" isn't enough. You got to paint a picture with facts that support the statement and hopefully this video did just that.
Americans? More like most of the West. The diversity brainrot neither originated nor was exclusively developed into an ideology by American leftists, it was a collaborative effort in which the Brits, the French, the Germans and the Swedes have been the most prominent in Europe. All for their own unique historic excuses, of course, but in the end all of us have to suffer through it all the same, no matter which side of the pond we happen to find ourselves on.
@@4l.vi. I would say it very much is an American ideal that came to Europe. USA is very multicultural and multiracial and they view themselves as a country of immigrants. Every time USA sneezes with these kind of issues, it's Europe that gets infected. Not the other way around.
It's a vocal minority in pretty much all western countries. The problem is, that minority has gained a lot of political power. Let's not pretend it's just America. The bbc has a few shows now where a black person plays an English king or noble. Sweden made a show a few years back that had black vikings. Poland and Hungary seem the only two countries in Europe that aren't infected with this commie ideology of revisionist history.
@@boogiesmell5181 Well I was talking more about gaming today in general but for kcd in particular there was basically a bunch of websites trying to criticise the game for not having more inclusivity or at least the inclusivity that they wanted. The video below explains it better than I do but it wouldn't be hard to look it up as well since this seems to be an issue in all games nowadays. th-cam.com/video/ugnUu_Un1RA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=kfycP6ax6KAbEFWl
Because its not always the same people saying the things they want maybe? Almost as if different people can have different opinions and not everyone who is "People" are a hivemind......... Obviously there is going to be multiple camps on how people think a game like this should be looking. But I personally agree with the historical accuracy road they're going.
@@HansWurst1569 Yes but people get upset when it's not The inclusivity that they want. Kcd2 will be very diverse with Bohemians, Germans, hungarians maybe even Italians and other European nationalities as warhorse has said but I feel there's still going to be people asking where the "people of colour" are and say it's not real diversity because it doesn't have that. This argument keeps appearing every time a new game gets announced or released. It's getting tiring. I'm glad Warhorse is sticking to their words and staying true to being historically accurate instead of bending that to please people or the "woke" agenda. Like battlefield 5 did for example. That's what I'm saying.
@@briannaal3935 BECAUSE ITS NOT THE SAME PEOPLE? Obviously the people complaining about historicity are not the same people complaining about inclusivity. If you cant understand that I cant help you.
It's interesting that people wanting to put some "diversity" in KCD, cannot comprehend there are diverse types of "diversity". In the case of historical Europe, it was all about language, unlike the modern day USA.
These people are just angry that there is no black people in Bohemia back then. The first game is already diverse enough with the Cumans being depicted as accurate as possible with some of them are still looking like Asian (see the interogation scene).
depends. cumans and tatars were more like a big group of steppe nomads, not only mongolic looking. for example, many cumans are actually told to have been blonde.
Funnily enough, KCD1 does feature 1 homosexual character for sure, and possibly 2 more. Novice Jodok's past is described in the Prior's document. Also, the relationship between Istvan Toth and Erick is strongly hinted at to be beyond friendship or mentorship. All these people were hiding their orientation for the fear of persecution, so it's not easy to spot it. So much for lack of diversity in this regard.
Ding ding ding! But those are things only players would know. Not the people complaining about a lack of inclusion. There absolutely is inclusion. Just 15th century style which indeed meant they kept to themselves as mentioned in this video.
Imagine burning up with anger somewhere because they didn't ethno-swap characters in a computer game or television show. This bothers some people. It deeply concerns them. They sit around and worry about it, and imagine themselves to be the arbiters of what is good and right and true and beautiful. They think about you enjoying a game that doesn't fit their worldview and it drives them absolutely crazy. They have to do something about it. They have to write letters, knock on doors, flame Internet forums, contact developers, pressure sponsors. Showing only European people in European-inspired media is unacceptable to them. In fact it's worse than unacceptable - it's evil. What an insane time we live in.
As I mentioned in other comments: KCD is one of many games out there. KCD isn't for you? Go for another one. Why waste time on something you don't like?
@@TheDutchTexanGames Because it's not about the game. It's about claiming territory. We're in an ideological and, frankly, religious struggle and that's what people do when they believe something strongly - they spread it everywhere.
Well, KCD won't be claimed. People can go play the upcoming Assassin's Creed or Dragon Age (looking forward to the latter). We'll have fun in our very own slice of historically accurate 1403 medieval Bohemia.
@@TheDutchTexanGames Because people defending or embracing such ideas have often a touch of totalitarism in them, it is not about what they like or not, it is about the fact that others cannot like what they don't, the irony of the story is often more on left or progressist side of the scale when they are trying to depict themselves are opened and tolerant.
@@aspikbardamu6040 Exactly. If there are some games that cater to them (Dustborn, Concord), these games usually flop, because they are more angry that we are not playing these rather than play it themselves. They will always be looking for games that are popular among normies, because they want to get control over that.
Hi, a Czech here! It kind of baffles me that people forget about the Romani people in these discusions, since they are actually the people of color that would have been present in 15th century Bohemia. It’s estimated that the Romani people arrived in Bohemia as early as the 13th century which fits perfectly into the timeline of the game. I personally think it would have been cool to see wandering Roma stacioned somewhere in the map (since they had nomadic lifestyles) aaaand it would represent a people who have been very often overlooked in our history.
considering that KCD was game in small cities and villages it makes sense there weren't any to see, but because we're going to Kutná Hora in the 2nd KCD there is a change there might be some there
People also forget that kingdom come deliverance 1 featured a canonically gay character too: brother Lucas, one of the novices in the Sasau monastery, has been sent there by his father to avoid the information becoming public and causing a scandal
That's not the only time the topic comes up. The right hand man of Istvan (Eric) is accused of being more than just Istvan's right hand man in the game too. But the people complaining never played through the game. Otherwise they would have known that.
The gameplay trailer is out and there is a german and a pole and based on 1 there likely will be cumans so that's already 4 races. So you know, the average dnd party
I am currently rendering my deep dive on that one. Loved the German trader and the polish dude Adder! It should be up in a few hours assuming it renders and uploads good.
@@TheDutchTexanGames don't forget to include that we can kill a wife beater not enougth will say one of the 2 us far rigth woke will say the other far rigth meanwhile Henri's remark deserve the burn reaction because the butcher was an asshole
Actually there are books in Venice and Genoa that say that local merchants have "helpers" with black skin from Africa and the Middle East. I wouldn't mind a quest in Kuttenberg where a merchant from Venice is looking for missing silk in the area and asks to find the goods and the helper, who is going to be hanged in a local village because the villagers think he is a warlock or sum
Little correction, The moors govenerments and established morish power was kick out. The people stayed, that's why most of latinos we look like marrocans; algerian, etc, because most of the colonizer that came from spain and portugal had moorish features. Technicly, they like or not at least, half south of it are descandants of a mix beetween ibero-romans and moors.
No, the people did not stay. They were expelled together with their rulers. What you're saying is factually wrong. Do your homework. They still left a very small percantage of genetic heritage in modern Spain, but that is not why Latinos look like north Africans. Latinos are a mix of Native and European genes. They just happen to share a similar complextion to people of Moorish descent, but their genetic composition is entirely different, look it up.
@@sventibaldo So you believe because you are using a power argument like "what you are saying is wrong, do your homework", it will automatcly gives you the ascendant in this matter and therefore the reason. But, because I prefer arguments and facts instead of egocentric dialectics, I will prove you wrong. The first inhabitants of the spanish peninsula are differents unnamed tribes of hunter gatherers that will eventually become sendentaric fishermen for those who live in the coast andsome of them, mostly in the baetica become sendentaric agriculture. Then indo european barbarian hordes of pastoralic warriors invade the aerea and absorb all cultural and socioligical devellopment of almost all of the iberic peninsula. Except for the Basques that stayed in their mountains. It is little known of what happened of baetica in that period of the bronze age, but some speculate it was the center of the Tartesos civilization. What we know is that the people of baetica mostly came from the gibraltar detroit from Africa were the proto berbers. So in the bronze age already the ancestors of the moors were already in the south of spain and in also in the canary islands. The indo europeans that will mixed with the already existing people there (known partially as the megalitic civ) will eventually become the iberic celts, lusitanians etc. Still then there is a difference beetween them, the previous mencionned basques and the proto moors from south baetica. When the roman empires extend to the peninsula, the culture of its most will shift again because of the roman influence and migrations. It would be called the hispano-romans culture. Romans are closer by their meditrarenean proximity to the moors than of the danish or goth for instance. Still, basques, and south baetica that remain partially unchanged, language and architecture are the proof of that cultural preservation. After the fall of the western roman empire in the 5th century AC, the Suevi and Goths invade the peninsula and install mostly everywere. They will then become the most recent ancestors to the cultures of northern spain, except of course for the basques. The south tho will remain under its majoritarian influence, being moorish. That's why even before the rise of Islam in 622, the almost half south os spain was of moorish influence, culture and even shared the same christian religion known as Mozarabic. So after most of the moorish leaders convert to islam and also some islamic leaders take control of some parts of norhern africa and spain (The Omeyaddes). Then they will be known as the Al-Andalus. Literally the name of southern region of spain Andalusia. So to conclude this lecture, moors doesn't just mean people who lived in the middle ages, it means a culture that came from a particular region, in this case northern africa near spain and so south of spain as well, descandants of berbers tribes that influenced and shape the history of that region. I could have mentionned Cartago as well, but it will be too long. So when Isabella la put.. sorry, la catolica, expelled the "muslims" out of their last fort of Granada, she expelled the muslims, so the people that practiced that religion and didn't convert and obviously all muslim leaders, either there were andalusians or arabic. By the way she also expelled all jews that didn't convert and so the Sultan of Morroco nicely took them in. So no she didn't empty the whole andalusia from the andalusians (moorish descandants (or cousins if you prefer) if you follow correctly). The funniest part of it is that the most famous cultural things about spain come from the andalusian culture, so the moorish one. (The music, the dance and the architecture). So you messed with the wrong nerd little boy.
and as half cuban half hondurian myself that travelled a lot, I can with my own eyes experienced the astonishing similitudes beetween my people and people from Algeria, Morroco, Tunis and South of spain. (South of italy too..)
@@CrazyHorse2505Es una puta coincidencia. Tu opinión o experiencias no equivalen a la verdad. Hay decenas de estudios genéticos que muestran que la genética dejada por los bereberes del norte de África en la Península es mínima, a pesar de que sí ocurriera.
I think you're mostly right, but as a historian I have to make a few clarifiactions. :) The distance of Bohemia from the coast does not, in itself, give us a good reason to say that Muslim traders would not want to go the region. The reason we know this is that several hundred years before the events of the game Bohemia (primarily Prague) was a major center of trade between Christians and Muslims. This was for pretty dark reasons though... The proto-Czech tribes of Bohemia were among the first Slavs to become Christian. The major Muslim powers of Al Andalus, the Middle East, and North Africa were heavily dependent on slave labor, and the Bohemians just happened to have a bunch of pagan rivals that they could sell them...They also had a fairly central location between Spain and the Levant, meaning that the area became a hub for the exchange of different products and not just slaves. This activity had pretty much entirely wrapped up by the time of the game, but I thought it was still worth mentioning. :) The point you make on sexual orientation/gender identity is also a bit more complicated. The Catholic church frowned on homosexuality, but the way it was treated in society varied a lot in different times and places. (And things were even more different in Orthodoxy and in Islam) A big part of this inconsistency is because Medieval Europeans didn't have a concept of homosexuality as an identity. There wasn't a concept of a heterosexual identity either, for that matter. A person who had 'gay' sex was not seen as someone with an innate attraction for the same sex, they were just thought to be giving into the sin of lust, with homosexuality being seen as a sin on the same level of non-productive heterosexual sex acts. (Because every sperm is sacred!) As you point out in the video, that doesn't mean that there weren't people who themselves were just 100% only into partners of the same sex, but the cultural understanding just did not think this made them part of some essential identity group. This was still the common understanding for most of the Christian (and to an extent Muslim and Jewish) world until fairly recently, but the Catholic Church started to take a much more punitive view of homosexual behavior in the late middle ages, but this was not so much because the acts were themselves considered so much worse than straight people giving blowjobs or whatever. The impetus for this increase in punishment for same-sex behavior was actually because the Church leaders became obsessed with the idea that Muslims had lots of gay sex. It actually is true that there was a sort of acceptance of certain types of homosexuality in the Muslim world, especially in Iran, but mostly it just seems that the western Christians were feeling increasingly threatened by the Muslims already, and they were willing to believe any wild story they heard. What I've noticed mostly hasn't come up in discussions of diversity is a certain minority population that actually did exist in Bohemia at the time, and which sometimes found itself in very difficult circumstances in situations like what we saw in the plot of the first game....where are the Jews?
Actually, the whole point is that Jan Hus wanted to follow the faith whereas the church abused its power and made up rules which had no scriptural basis (such as paying for forgiveness of sins, the whole concept of purgatory, etc). This is why it was illegal to translate the Bible into the common tongue, because if everyone could read it, it would be almost no time until the church is dethroned and that is pretty much exactly what happened around the time of the reformation.
@@PetrusEksteen the perversion continues even today. The existence of so called megachurches and extremely wealthy pastors with their often lavish lifestyles are a prime example. The whole point was that he went against the church, who were the (gate)keepers of the faith, which cost him his life. Too bad for them many heard his sermons and ultimately didn’t stand for it. I could have elaborated a lot but wanted to keep it short and to the point. Go against the church? You’re going to get in trouble. And it was often not the church but the governing body who had final say in your fate which included execution on the extreme end.
@@TheDutchTexanGames Yes very true, the church has again found its place as a money making industry - I guess some things never change. Also forgot to say in the original comment, but excellent video as always sir.
@@PetrusEksteen some things never change, or history repeats itself as it has done many times over. I appreciate your viewership and your comments. In fact, the comments are the best thing about posting a video. Thank you!
Nobody ever paid money for the forgiveness of sins. Indulgences have nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins. They are done in order to limit your time in purgatory. Even during the abuses of indulgences in the middle ages, getting your sins forgiven by a priest was always free. Also, monetary indulgences weren't the only form of indulgence. Going on a pilgrimage was also an indulgence. Helping the poor was an indulgence. The Church still has these indulgences to this day. Also, purgatory does have its basis in scripture - it's just that those references are in books if the Bible that Martin Luther removed during the protestant reformation because he personally didn't like the idea of purgatory. He also wanted to remove the book of James as well because its states in there that "faith without works is dead", but fortunately he wasn't able to do so. And lastly, translating the Bible was not illegal in the middle ages. The first translation of the Bible from the original hebrew and Greek into Latin was by Saint Jerome in the 4th century. A translation of the Bible simply had to be approved by the Church, because otherwise it could lead to mistranslations and misunderstandings of scripture, which could lead to heresy. Besides, 90% of people were illiterate in the middle ages. If you were educated and could read, then you could read Latin and therefore could read the Bible. There was no reason to translate the Bible into the vernacular back then because most people wouldn't have been able to read it anyway.
All points are valid. Plus a bonus: Bohemia is not very diverse even now. Outside tourist centres you do not meet a black person on a daily basis. We do have a lot of people of Asian descent, but that's it. There are many reasons for it. The local language is too hard to learn and the economy is stronger in the western Europe so why to stay here.
I was surprised to know there is a pretty big Vietnamese-Czech population living in Czechia. Pretty interesting considering the fact they are not really recent immigrants (1-20 years ago).
I think it would be kinda cool if there was lets say either a side mission or even a dlc like woman's lot, Band of Bastards etc where there is a coloured person/people who need some kind of help or something along the lines of that maybe they had to escape their home country and now they want to convert to Christianity and find a job or something like that and we could help them accomplish that
Guys…the first episode was massively successful, generally praised and 2nd instalment is eagerly awaited…don’t you think you blow it out of proportions ?
Someone once said this about the topic: Not a conversation worth having. But yet people brought it up. I like to be informed and use facts to support what should be the be all end all. It’s the 15th century. Things were different back then. Go google and spend a few days researching the topic. You’ll come to the same conclusion.
I think people imagine that there was a universal language back then so everybody could have understood everybody else. If you traveled from Ethiopia to Prague, for instance, how many languages would you have had to speak? Sure you can communicate with hand and feet but how do you judge the difference between a thief and an actual toll collector? How will you understand and answer their questions towards the goods you transport? I think a relay race equivalent is much, MUCH more believable where every step of the route the traders would have had t have basic language skills on the side where they bought things and basic language skills on the side they sold and nothing more. Latin was the scholar's language and certainly not understood universally. Greeks was probably in a similar and even more restricted situation. Oh and by the way, you kinda pointed in the direction but it would have been great if you had clarified that it wasn't the church burning people for things like heresy. Inquisitions gave expert testimony but the verdict and sentencing was up to secular courts.
Depending on the region there were trading languages, Early in Europe Latin was widely used and later French, tho German had also a large impact. (Byzantine) Greek was also widely used in the more eastern regions. (In Hungary until the 19th century the "official" language was Latin. In day to day people talked Hungarian or one of the minority languages, but every official document had to be in Latin, so any place that had a scribe or someone official who had to write things down had a Latin speaker). Similar instances like you describe with an "Ethiopian" did happen , but that was usually an official envoy (the Japanese for instance sent some on a Portuguese ship, tho obviously later then the 15th century). Those were important people who were only met by important people and we have historical records of it because it was such a big deal and out of ordinary thing. Depending on the region peasants might be multilingual, but that's usually in regions were there are multiple ethnicities present, usually German or Hungarian + a Slavic language for example. The regional trade languages are true today as well, if you speak English, French, Spanish, German, Russian, Arabic and Japanese you can travel the world easily. While not being able to talk to everyone, you'd always have a good chance to find a person who can speak one of those languages, even in very remote areas. The difference between back then and today is that today we only need those 7 after Victorian Imperialism and globalised trade spread those languages very wide and with the internet the most dominant one, English, is becoming even more universal and dominant. Meanwhile back then a lot of the world trade was more separated into different zones and only a rich person could afford an expedition with multiple guides and translators. The famous christian pilgrim who travelled to Europe in the 13th century (Rabban Bar Sauma) could probably only achieve this because he was made an ambassador and it was in the interest of the Mongols that he would make contact with European kings. (Once again, such an out of the ordinary event that there are historical records of it and of course nowhere near Bohemia). The only non Europeans that were remotely regular in Europe around that time were the Saracens/North Africans in Spain (the reconquista finished in the late 15th century) and Mongols/Tatars in the regions around Ukraine and Russia. PS: From Ethiopia to Prague in the early 15th century Arabic, Greek and Latin would probably be enough, tho German would be quite helpful once arriving by ship and travelling from (most likely) Venice up to Prague. If the person goes over land (which would be a huge detour) then Greek would be also needed to travel through Anatolia and the Balkans.
Nobility and wealth people in middle ages can travel much more faster. Charles IV could go from Prague to Nuremberg in two days. And if you look on cities on trading route from that day (most of them still exist), they are approximately 30 km from each other. It was a half day go there, possibly seling something to wealth people. Or they could move to next bigger town. Doing like 60km per day easy. Even in that times there were good roads, especially these they were in kings interest.
I think, in the big city in the middleages there could be some jewish ghetto. And maybe some gypsies - the only probable dark skinned people here at that time.
If there is any anachronistic diversity in KCD2, I am going to have a serious face-to-face talk with the first leftwinger I see, if you catch my drift.
Your research is thorough, and your reasoning appears to be well-intentioned. From a historical standpoint, I largely agree with your points. However, as a social studies teacher with a decade of experience in the classroom, I’d like to offer my perspective on this discussion. One of the most powerful aspects of video games and movies is their ability to transport us to different times and places, exposing us to experiences and stories we might never encounter otherwise. While it’s true that a person living in 15th-century Bohemia-especially a peasant-would be unlikely to meet someone from Ethiopia or the far reaches of East Asia, the beauty of these mediums lies in their creative flexibility. No matter how "realistic" a game is designed to be, it remains a form of fantasy-an imitation of history rather than a direct reproduction. If we are to argue for absolute realism, then we must also question the many inherently fantastical elements that games include-like the ability to save progress by drinking a potion or becoming a master swordsman after just a few days of relentless practice, fueled by a diet of cheese and ale. Now, let me explain why diversity in video games, including KCD, is not only beneficial but essential, even if it isn't entirely historically accurate. The reality is that history is filled with countless untold and uncelebrated stories, particularly those of marginalized groups. As you mentioned in your video, there were undoubtedly people in the 15th century who were gay, gender-divergent, or came from different ethnic backgrounds. However, due to the harsh material realities of that era, they often couldn’t live their lives openly, and if they did, they were frequently shunned or faced worse fates. In the world of video games, these material constraints do not exist. So why, then, do we resist the opportunity to elevate the stories of those whose voices were historically silenced? By including these stories, even if they aren't strictly realistic, we acknowledge that these people existed and that their lives mattered. This representation allows those who identify with these stories today to feel seen, validated, and understood. Moreover, diversity in games offers a unique opportunity to broaden our horizons and challenge our perspectives. Introducing players to the rich stories and experiences of people from other cultures who existed during the same time period can deepen our understanding of history in ways that purely Eurocentric narratives cannot. In the grand scheme of things, does it truly matter if a character from Ethiopia or the Muslim world interacts with a player character in a way that might not have been historically common? What matters is that these interactions expose players to different cultures, ideas, and histories, enriching the narrative and offering a more nuanced view of the world. At the end of the day, the character you play-whether it’s Henry or another protagonist-isn’t real. Henry doesn’t have an opinion on seeing someone with black skin or encountering a person who challenges the norms of his time-because Henry is a construct, a series of pixels brought to life by code. But you, the player, are real. You are capable of learning, growing, reasoning, and engaging in meaningful dialogues. To limit your experience of the medieval world in the name of "realism"-especially when the medium is already imbued with elements of fantasy-is a missed opportunity to explore the richness of human experience. Diversity of experience and perspective is one of the most powerful and beautiful aspects of video games. For those who are underrepresented, seeing themselves reflected in the media they consume is more than just gratifying-it can be life-affirming. For others, these representations can serve as an introduction to new cultures and stories, sparking curiosity and empathy. And to those in the comments who dismiss inclusion as “western liberal brainrot,” I urge you to reconsider what you're truly advocating for. Such a dismissive opinion overlooks the profound impact that representation has on individuals and communities. It’s not just about catering to a specific political agenda or forcing modern ideals onto historical narratives. It’s about recognizing that history is far richer and more complex than what has traditionally been depicted. The notion that including diverse characters or stories somehow dilutes the authenticity of a game is rooted in a narrow understanding of both history and human experience. By dismissing inclusion as mere “brainrot,” we ignore the reality that the past was filled with a brilliant array of cultures, identities, and experiences. These stories have often been marginalized or erased, not because they didn’t exist, but because those in power controlled the narratives that were preserved and told. Incorporating diverse perspectives into a game like Kingdom Come: Deliverance doesn’t just enrich the narrative-it challenges players to engage with history in a more thoughtful and nuanced way. It pushes us to consider the lives and contributions of those who were left out of the dominant historical records. It invites us to ask questions, to learn, and to grow beyond the limitations of our own perspectives. To dismiss these efforts as nothing more than “liberal brainrot” is to deny the opportunity for deeper understanding and connection. It’s a refusal to acknowledge the value of diverse experiences and the ways in which they can enhance our engagement with history, even in a fictional setting. Ultimately, inclusion in video games isn’t about rewriting history; it’s about offering a more complete picture-one that recognizes the complexity of the past and the people who lived it. It’s about creating spaces where all players can see themselves reflected, where they can explore stories that resonate with them on a personal level, and where they can be introduced to perspectives they might never have considered otherwise. So, if you seek a historically grounded medieval game, that's commendable. But recognize that diversity doesn’t detract from the realism-it can elevate it by presenting a fuller, more inclusive picture of the past. What concerns me is that when I read comments on videos like this, I often see the term “realism” being used as a thinly veiled excuse for excluding LGBTQ+ individuals or people of color from these narratives. If we were to truly prioritize realism, then Henry would have likely succumbed to blood loss or infection before even leaving Talmberg after his initial arrow wound. The real issue here isn't about historical accuracy-it's about the underlying discomfort with seeing diverse identities represented in a space that has traditionally been dominated by narrow perspectives. "Realism" should not be a shield for exclusion; instead, it should be a tool that helps us explore and celebrate the complexity and diversity of human history.
I appreciate the thesis and I see value in some of the points you are making. However you are falling in a trap of your own making. You are looking at it from a 21st century perspective which I specifically mention at the end of the video you shouldn't do. It is a work of fiction that tells a story from the 15th century perspective. Hard stop. The conversation simply ends there. The explanation behind that is the video you just watched. There are other games that will have what people seek. Like Dragon Age: The Veilguard for instance which I am looking forward to a lot. Instead of looking at it as an attack simply look at it as a story that isn't for everybody. I can't stand romance books but my wife? She loves them. Just pick up the next book. Or in this case game. There are plenty of them out there!
Boy, I'm glad I didn't have you as a teacher! Your wall of text drips with sanctimony and condescension. Dishonest propaganda has no place in any game I would consider buying, or in the classroom for that matter.
The game is first and foremost telling a story. And its completely up to its creators what story and how they are going to tell it. Its telling a story of a certain guy in a certain, and lets face it, even if it seeks realism, its still somehow fictional, world. Why should it aim to reflect players own personal experience from real world? If the players want to resonate on personal level with the game and if they want to feel represented, they should probably go play something like The Sims. The creators of the game have no social obligation to anyone to include elements to the story that they dont want to. Thats just it. Its just like with the books. Some are focused on something, other are focused on something else and its completely fine, because that way, we have the chance to pick what suits us the most. And we just have to face it, not every book is for everybody. Also, Im pretty sure that you would not be advocating for more white people in a game or book set in medieval Africa or Middle East.
@@boogiesmell5181 That is the end goal of contemporary ideologues. Their vision of utopia. Its a presentist farce of course, but true believers never let reality stand in their way.
Wow, what a great comment! Thank you for all the time you put into writing this, I enjoyed reading every word. When I started KCD for the first time I knew nothing about the game, but realized I discovered a real gem during the tutorial in Skalitz. However, I really fell in love with the game when it made me feel as an unwelcome refugee in a hostile environment, who tries to make a living. Warhorse touched some very big topics of today and gave me as the player the choice to live up to the stereotypes or prove them wrong - what a masterpiece! I hope KCD2 has some deep social meaning too. Since the refugee theme won't work quite as well anymore, it could be something different, e.g. through cleverly told sidequests for LGBTQ+ people or travelers/ merchants from outside Europe. Maybe it's even a surprise as big part of the main story - who knows. 😉 I feel if it doesn't have social impact, something great from the first game would be lost. I'm pretty sure Warhorse is perfectly aware of this and will address it. Not in a press conference perhaps, but in the game. Let's see.
I disagree with allmost every point you make. However it's refreshing for a change to see some arguments and some effort in a video about a culture war topic. Nicely done. I - as a huge fan, don't get me wrong - hope for mor diversity KCD 2 and for Kuttenberg to be a bit of a melting pot. Having two Germans and some Kumans you can't even talk to is a lack of diversity that's historically not supported I think. I think there absolutely should be Jews. I don't know if there was one in Kuttenberg, but would it not be awesome if there was a proper Jewish community in the game? Jews are a big part of European history and I want to see it in KCD2. I'd love to have some actual Kuman characters, with dialouge and quests and stuff like this. Italian bankers, Hungarian cow pasteurs, French monks, Hanseatik traders and so on. And if there was a aethiopian pilgeim or two I would not be mad. Why would you be against that? It would just make the game more interesting and wouldnmake the wirld feel mor immersive, more alive and more like a real place.
It’s ok to disagree in a respectful manner which I thank you for! But also respectfully: Warhorse has a team of historians who are creating the game as historically accurate as possible. If it’s in the game it’s because it was actually possible for it to happen in 1403 Bohemia. We have a confirmed Pole and German from the gameplay reveal. And that’s just 25 minutes of gameplay on a game that will be 100 hours easy. I did research on pilgrim sites but most of them led them to Spain (Santiago de Compostela) and Italy (Rome) which means any potential sub Saharan people would never travel through Bohemia. I can’t wait to find out what we will see when the game releases. But I also wanted to set realistic expectations.
There wasn’t Jews in Kuttenberg because of silver mining (guilds didn’t want competition with Jews in this), but there were a few hundred Jews in nearby town of Kolin.
Medieval European Diversity is probably more simillar the way how China is diverse. To westerners , The Han Chinese, Mongolians, Uyghurs, Tibetans, Manchurians, etc are all the same , but in reality it's not the case.
Each ethnic groups are all distinct from one another, they may influence each other, but they are their own thing. They have own language, their own values, their own cuisine, their fashion, and their own history, and I wish people realize that.
That is even true for nations as small as the Netherlands. The north, center and south are all vastly different and it all has to do with where the people came from originally and how it was ultimately formed well before and ultimately "finalized" after the Napoleon period. No one can understand the Fries if they speak their language and the south pronounce the G silently while the center pronounce it loudly. And that is for a nation less than 200 miles end to end.
@@Orianna_Bumssen321 That's the kind of diversity I missed from part 1.
There are some people pointing at the trade maps of the era and saying “look, the trade connection with Africa and Asia was there, so why there are no PoC?” They don’t realise that such trade would be highly unlikely. Traders from other continents would simply trade with local traders in the ports. These local traders were then specialists in trading with European landlocked areas. Imagine you are let’s say moorish trader. You have a ship and sail from Morroco to Venice. Then you leave your boat to rot in the port, pay harbour fees for several months when your ship is doing nothing, you buy wagons, hire escort and travel through dangerous areas to sell your goods in the Kingdom of Bohemia…and to show of your darker skin. Well…no. These traders were not stupid. They were clever wealthy people who used brain.
@@petrtupy5320 that is why people need to take a step back and look at it from a 15th century perspective. Long distance travel was measured in days and months, not mere hours like they are now. You can practically get anywhere in the known world inside of 24 hours if you have the means.
And people had families they wanted to get back to as well. An overland trader wouldn’t want to embark on a trip that kept them from their families and in addition wrecked their bottom line with fees and tolls. Not to mention the dangers.
Exactly. The Silk Road and similar trade routes operated l;ike conveyor belts: individial merchants only traveled a few weeks before selling their stock and going home; those silks passed through many middlemen. So it's absurd to picture caravans of Chinese or Indian merchants trudging through central Europe.
But to this add two significant legal barriers:
1) By Papal decree, Latin Christians (ie Catholics) were forbidden to have any commercial dealings with a Muslim (interchange in cities like Antioch was by way of Jewish intermediaries)
2) By Imperial decree, Muslims were forbidden to set foot within the Empire, on pain of death
Trade connection doesnt justify africans permanently living in medieval europe and wearing plate armor lol ( being knights)
@@2138Dude Trade connections don't put Africans in medieval central Europe at all.
Agreed. Plus there were some chinese (and other asian) and possibly even japanese goods coming to Europe (especially silk and chinaware). But it was not because a japanese trader would come all the way to Europe. It worked a bit like a relay race. A japanese trader would sell goods in China, from China it would be later taken by another trader to say Persia, from Persia to Anatolia the same way, from Anatolia through Venice (because they had a monopoly on oriental trade), and from Venice to other parts of Europe. All this without a single Japanese laying a foot in Europe until about the 16th century. Of course, the middle eastern and north african traders were much closer, but you talked about exactly this, so there's that.
Great research, but actually you could use a travel book by Jaroslav Lev of Rožmitál, who was first Czech to see a Blackman in Spain during his travel during reign of George of Poděbrady long after KCD story, so a Czech didn't saw a Blackman until end of 15th century.
The most exotic to average town folks or villagers could see was a Arab trader or Mongolian/Turkic people.
I love that there is so much more information out there that support the same end conclusion when it comes down to early 15th century Bohemia / Central Europe.
What about gypsies? We can date them at least to 1416 in czech lands, so a travelling group of them could be possible.
(If you want the official earliest date, then it’s 1423 when Zikmund signed some document that mentions them, but it was probably quite a while after they came here..)
@@Wolltazar Yes. That was truly some missed opportunity in KCD. Well, first mention describes them as ''stealing everywhere'', but some fortune-teller or seasonal worker would be very well possible. And actually a nice addition to the game.
@@blabla260 why not both? In Bohemian lands they are known for being great blacksmiths (same as Henry), fortune tellers, singers/musicians, jugglers, actors.. but also are known for not being scared of "borrowing" other people's possesions and living outside of a law obeying society
@@Wolltazar yes that could, but I don't think near town area's (maybe blacksmith), but a traveler's, villager's yes
(Yet there was a prejudice against them well same for Jews).
There is no controversy with KCD2 because people that care about KCD don't care about that stuff
There is controversy but its a laughable one since its outside of the community
I think your right kingdom come is for people that remember floppy discs 😂
I feel like Dan vavra and Tobi were smart and also smug about how they originally answered this in their early interviews with ign when the second one was freshly announced. They said “There will be more diversity and ethnicities in Kutna Hora than there was in the first game.”
They were right. There were Poles, Germans, Czechs, Cumans, and I’m sure there will be many other different *European* ethnicities. So if anything, they got diversity, just not the one that they were crying for lmao
@@Gooeygiuseppe Dan is based and I love him for it. And it’s like mentioned in the video. 15th century. Things were just different back then. You can’t apply 21st century logic to it. You’ll end up with issues like Assassins Creed where they pretty much PO’d an entire country.
@@TheDutchTexanGames Exactly
The BBC does that so often that they wonder why no one watches their “historical” dramas.
It’s only a tiny subset of people that actually want that shit though, and other than the gameplay, story, writing, and world of KCD, that’s one of the reasons why I love it so much. They don’t have a message of 21st century ethnic theory, or they don’t even have a white supremacy agenda. They wanted to portray *their* history and culture as objectively grounded as possible, and they pulled it off. It’s their honesty, integrity, and passion for their work that makes me love Warhorse so much, and why they’ve become my favorite game studio to date.
People want their beliefs in the game no matter how ahistorical it would be. Americans can be pretty pinhead about this.
Just some, I simply refuse to believe the majority is preoccupied with that. And honestly all those game publishers such as IGN and some people in the gaming community are just looking for rage clicks to feed their bottom line. Negativity sells. For me it was simple. Just stating "It's the 15th century, deal with it" isn't enough. You got to paint a picture with facts that support the statement and hopefully this video did just that.
Americans? More like most of the West. The diversity brainrot neither originated nor was exclusively developed into an ideology by American leftists, it was a collaborative effort in which the Brits, the French, the Germans and the Swedes have been the most prominent in Europe. All for their own unique historic excuses, of course, but in the end all of us have to suffer through it all the same, no matter which side of the pond we happen to find ourselves on.
@@4l.vi. it's still most severe in us today. That's for sure.
@@4l.vi. I would say it very much is an American ideal that came to Europe. USA is very multicultural and multiracial and they view themselves as a country of immigrants. Every time USA sneezes with these kind of issues, it's Europe that gets infected. Not the other way around.
It's a vocal minority in pretty much all western countries. The problem is, that minority has gained a lot of political power. Let's not pretend it's just America. The bbc has a few shows now where a black person plays an English king or noble. Sweden made a show a few years back that had black vikings. Poland and Hungary seem the only two countries in Europe that aren't infected with this commie ideology of revisionist history.
I don't understand how people demand historical accuracy then demand inclusivity. Doesn't make sense
@@boogiesmell5181
Well I was talking more about gaming today in general but for kcd in particular there was basically a bunch of websites trying to criticise the game for not having more inclusivity or at least the inclusivity that they wanted. The video below explains it better than I do but it wouldn't be hard to look it up as well since this seems to be an issue in all games nowadays. th-cam.com/video/ugnUu_Un1RA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=kfycP6ax6KAbEFWl
Because its not always the same people saying the things they want maybe? Almost as if different people can have different opinions and not everyone who is "People" are a hivemind......... Obviously there is going to be multiple camps on how people think a game like this should be looking. But I personally agree with the historical accuracy road they're going.
@@HansWurst1569 Yes but people get upset when it's not The inclusivity that they want. Kcd2 will be very diverse with Bohemians, Germans, hungarians maybe even Italians and other European nationalities as warhorse has said but I feel there's still going to be people asking where the "people of colour" are and say it's not real diversity because it doesn't have that. This argument keeps appearing every time a new game gets announced or released. It's getting tiring. I'm glad Warhorse is sticking to their words and staying true to being historically accurate instead of bending that to please people or the "woke" agenda. Like battlefield 5 did for example. That's what I'm saying.
@@briannaal3935 BECAUSE ITS NOT THE SAME PEOPLE? Obviously the people complaining about historicity are not the same people complaining about inclusivity. If you cant understand that I cant help you.
@@HansWurst1569 I'm not saying that though of course I understand that. Don't get how you got that impression from what I've said.
It's interesting that people wanting to put some "diversity" in KCD, cannot comprehend there are diverse types of "diversity". In the case of historical Europe, it was all about language, unlike the modern day USA.
Just taking that 21st century thinking with them to 1403 Bohemia and thinking the same applies back then.
These people are just angry that there is no black people in Bohemia back then.
The first game is already diverse enough with the Cumans being depicted as accurate as possible with some of them are still looking like Asian (see the interogation scene).
depends. cumans and tatars were more like a big group of steppe nomads, not only mongolic looking. for example, many cumans are actually told to have been blonde.
I remember playing AC Valhalla and there was a black woman blacksmith… this is why I love KCD, no nonsense like this
Funnily enough, KCD1 does feature 1 homosexual character for sure, and possibly 2 more. Novice Jodok's past is described in the Prior's document. Also, the relationship between Istvan Toth and Erick is strongly hinted at to be beyond friendship or mentorship. All these people were hiding their orientation for the fear of persecution, so it's not easy to spot it. So much for lack of diversity in this regard.
Ding ding ding! But those are things only players would know. Not the people complaining about a lack of inclusion. There absolutely is inclusion. Just 15th century style which indeed meant they kept to themselves as mentioned in this video.
Imagine burning up with anger somewhere because they didn't ethno-swap characters in a computer game or television show. This bothers some people. It deeply concerns them. They sit around and worry about it, and imagine themselves to be the arbiters of what is good and right and true and beautiful. They think about you enjoying a game that doesn't fit their worldview and it drives them absolutely crazy. They have to do something about it. They have to write letters, knock on doors, flame Internet forums, contact developers, pressure sponsors. Showing only European people in European-inspired media is unacceptable to them. In fact it's worse than unacceptable - it's evil.
What an insane time we live in.
As I mentioned in other comments: KCD is one of many games out there. KCD isn't for you? Go for another one. Why waste time on something you don't like?
@@TheDutchTexanGames Because it's not about the game. It's about claiming territory. We're in an ideological and, frankly, religious struggle and that's what people do when they believe something strongly - they spread it everywhere.
Well, KCD won't be claimed. People can go play the upcoming Assassin's Creed or Dragon Age (looking forward to the latter). We'll have fun in our very own slice of historically accurate 1403 medieval Bohemia.
@@TheDutchTexanGames Because people defending or embracing such ideas have often a touch of totalitarism in them, it is not about what they like or not, it is about the fact that others cannot like what they don't, the irony of the story is often more on left or progressist side of the scale when they are trying to depict themselves are opened and tolerant.
@@aspikbardamu6040 Exactly. If there are some games that cater to them (Dustborn, Concord), these games usually flop, because they are more angry that we are not playing these rather than play it themselves. They will always be looking for games that are popular among normies, because they want to get control over that.
Hi, a Czech here! It kind of baffles me that people forget about the Romani people in these discusions, since they are actually the people of color that would have been present in 15th century Bohemia. It’s estimated that the Romani people arrived in Bohemia as early as the 13th century which fits perfectly into the timeline of the game. I personally think it would have been cool to see wandering Roma stacioned somewhere in the map (since they had nomadic lifestyles) aaaand it would represent a people who have been very often overlooked in our history.
considering that KCD was game in small cities and villages it makes sense there weren't any to see, but because we're going to Kutná Hora in the 2nd KCD there is a change there might be some there
Short answer
F Diversity just make a proper game, which they seem to be doing anyway.
Great video regardless.
I cant wait for kingdom come 2
This video needs to get more views. People going insane over these issues has been blown to ridiculous proportions.
Thank you, I appreciate it. Glad people see the point.
People also forget that kingdom come deliverance 1 featured a canonically gay character too: brother Lucas, one of the novices in the Sasau monastery, has been sent there by his father to avoid the information becoming public and causing a scandal
That's not the only time the topic comes up. The right hand man of Istvan (Eric) is accused of being more than just Istvan's right hand man in the game too.
But the people complaining never played through the game. Otherwise they would have known that.
The gameplay trailer is out and there is a german and a pole and based on 1 there likely will be cumans so that's already 4 races.
So you know, the average dnd party
I am currently rendering my deep dive on that one. Loved the German trader and the polish dude Adder! It should be up in a few hours assuming it renders and uploads good.
@@TheDutchTexanGames don't forget to include that we can kill a wife beater
not enougth will say one of the 2 us far rigth
woke will say the other far rigth
meanwhile Henri's remark deserve the burn reaction because the butcher was an asshole
Actually there are books in Venice and Genoa that say that local merchants have "helpers" with black skin from Africa and the Middle East. I wouldn't mind a quest in Kuttenberg where a merchant from Venice is looking for missing silk in the area and asks to find the goods and the helper, who is going to be hanged in a local village because the villagers think he is a warlock or sum
As a Czech, I'm offended by these diversity requests, bucause it is insult tou our old Bohemian culture and history.
It makes no sense at all. I am with you. Pretty neat country to live in if you love castles though, there seem to be a ton of them there!
Little correction, The moors govenerments and established morish power was kick out. The people stayed, that's why most of latinos we look like marrocans; algerian, etc, because most of the colonizer that came from spain and portugal had moorish features. Technicly, they like or not at least, half south of it are descandants of a mix beetween ibero-romans and moors.
Correct, the Moors occupied current day Spain and Portugal for nearly 800 years so people did people things for those 800 years as well.
No, the people did not stay. They were expelled together with their rulers. What you're saying is factually wrong. Do your homework.
They still left a very small percantage of genetic heritage in modern Spain, but that is not why Latinos look like north Africans. Latinos are a mix of Native and European genes. They just happen to share a similar complextion to people of Moorish descent, but their genetic composition is entirely different, look it up.
@@sventibaldo So you believe because you are using a power argument like "what you are saying is wrong, do your homework", it will automatcly gives you the ascendant in this matter and therefore the reason. But, because I prefer arguments and facts instead of egocentric dialectics, I will prove you wrong.
The first inhabitants of the spanish peninsula are differents unnamed tribes of hunter gatherers that will eventually become sendentaric fishermen for those who live in the coast andsome of them, mostly in the baetica become sendentaric agriculture. Then indo european barbarian hordes of pastoralic warriors invade the aerea and absorb all cultural and socioligical devellopment of almost all of the iberic peninsula. Except for the Basques that stayed in their mountains. It is little known of what happened of baetica in that period of the bronze age, but some speculate it was the center of the Tartesos civilization. What we know is that the people of baetica mostly came from the gibraltar detroit from Africa were the proto berbers. So in the bronze age already the ancestors of the moors were already in the south of spain and in also in the canary islands. The indo europeans that will mixed with the already existing people there (known partially as the megalitic civ) will eventually become the iberic celts, lusitanians etc. Still then there is a difference beetween them, the previous mencionned basques and the proto moors from south baetica. When the roman empires extend to the peninsula, the culture of its most will shift again because of the roman influence and migrations. It would be called the hispano-romans culture. Romans are closer by their meditrarenean proximity to the moors than of the danish or goth for instance. Still, basques, and south baetica that remain partially unchanged, language and architecture are the proof of that cultural preservation. After the fall of the western roman empire in the 5th century AC, the Suevi and Goths invade the peninsula and install mostly everywere. They will then become the most recent ancestors to the cultures of northern spain, except of course for the basques. The south tho will remain under its majoritarian influence, being moorish. That's why even before the rise of Islam in 622, the almost half south os spain was of moorish influence, culture and even shared the same christian religion known as Mozarabic. So after most of the moorish leaders convert to islam and also some islamic leaders take control of some parts of norhern africa and spain (The Omeyaddes). Then they will be known as the Al-Andalus. Literally the name of southern region of spain Andalusia.
So to conclude this lecture, moors doesn't just mean people who lived in the middle ages, it means a culture that came from a particular region, in this case northern africa near spain and so south of spain as well, descandants of berbers tribes that influenced and shape the history of that region. I could have mentionned Cartago as well, but it will be too long.
So when Isabella la put.. sorry, la catolica, expelled the "muslims" out of their last fort of Granada, she expelled the muslims, so the people that practiced that religion and didn't convert and obviously all muslim leaders, either there were andalusians or arabic. By the way she also expelled all jews that didn't convert and so the Sultan of Morroco nicely took them in.
So no she didn't empty the whole andalusia from the andalusians (moorish descandants (or cousins if you prefer) if you follow correctly).
The funniest part of it is that the most famous cultural things about spain come from the andalusian culture, so the moorish one. (The music, the dance and the architecture).
So you messed with the wrong nerd little boy.
and as half cuban half hondurian myself that travelled a lot, I can with my own eyes experienced the astonishing similitudes beetween my people and people from Algeria, Morroco, Tunis and South of spain. (South of italy too..)
@@CrazyHorse2505Es una puta coincidencia. Tu opinión o experiencias no equivalen a la verdad. Hay decenas de estudios genéticos que muestran que la genética dejada por los bereberes del norte de África en la Península es mínima, a pesar de que sí ocurriera.
Henry.
Pebbles.
Hunger.
Enough diversity.
Kingdom come♥️♥️♥️
I can't wait for the release date!
I think you're mostly right, but as a historian I have to make a few clarifiactions. :)
The distance of Bohemia from the coast does not, in itself, give us a good reason to say that Muslim traders would not want to go the region. The reason we know this is that several hundred years before the events of the game Bohemia (primarily Prague) was a major center of trade between Christians and Muslims. This was for pretty dark reasons though...
The proto-Czech tribes of Bohemia were among the first Slavs to become Christian. The major Muslim powers of Al Andalus, the Middle East, and North Africa were heavily dependent on slave labor, and the Bohemians just happened to have a bunch of pagan rivals that they could sell them...They also had a fairly central location between Spain and the Levant, meaning that the area became a hub for the exchange of different products and not just slaves. This activity had pretty much entirely wrapped up by the time of the game, but I thought it was still worth mentioning. :)
The point you make on sexual orientation/gender identity is also a bit more complicated. The Catholic church frowned on homosexuality, but the way it was treated in society varied a lot in different times and places. (And things were even more different in Orthodoxy and in Islam)
A big part of this inconsistency is because Medieval Europeans didn't have a concept of homosexuality as an identity. There wasn't a concept of a heterosexual identity either, for that matter. A person who had 'gay' sex was not seen as someone with an innate attraction for the same sex, they were just thought to be giving into the sin of lust, with homosexuality being seen as a sin on the same level of non-productive heterosexual sex acts. (Because every sperm is sacred!) As you point out in the video, that doesn't mean that there weren't people who themselves were just 100% only into partners of the same sex, but the cultural understanding just did not think this made them part of some essential identity group.
This was still the common understanding for most of the Christian (and to an extent Muslim and Jewish) world until fairly recently, but the Catholic Church started to take a much more punitive view of homosexual behavior in the late middle ages, but this was not so much because the acts were themselves considered so much worse than straight people giving blowjobs or whatever.
The impetus for this increase in punishment for same-sex behavior was actually because the Church leaders became obsessed with the idea that Muslims had lots of gay sex. It actually is true that there was a sort of acceptance of certain types of homosexuality in the Muslim world, especially in Iran, but mostly it just seems that the western Christians were feeling increasingly threatened by the Muslims already, and they were willing to believe any wild story they heard.
What I've noticed mostly hasn't come up in discussions of diversity is a certain minority population that actually did exist in Bohemia at the time, and which sometimes found itself in very difficult circumstances in situations like what we saw in the plot of the first game....where are the Jews?
Actually, the whole point is that Jan Hus wanted to follow the faith whereas the church abused its power and made up rules which had no scriptural basis (such as paying for forgiveness of sins, the whole concept of purgatory, etc). This is why it was illegal to translate the Bible into the common tongue, because if everyone could read it, it would be almost no time until the church is dethroned and that is pretty much exactly what happened around the time of the reformation.
@@PetrusEksteen the perversion continues even today. The existence of so called megachurches and extremely wealthy pastors with their often lavish lifestyles are a prime example.
The whole point was that he went against the church, who were the (gate)keepers of the faith, which cost him his life. Too bad for them many heard his sermons and ultimately didn’t stand for it. I could have elaborated a lot but wanted to keep it short and to the point. Go against the church? You’re going to get in trouble. And it was often not the church but the governing body who had final say in your fate which included execution on the extreme end.
@@TheDutchTexanGames Yes very true, the church has again found its place as a money making industry - I guess some things never change. Also forgot to say in the original comment, but excellent video as always sir.
@@PetrusEksteen some things never change, or history repeats itself as it has done many times over.
I appreciate your viewership and your comments. In fact, the comments are the best thing about posting a video. Thank you!
No Jan Hus was a heretic and servant of Satan who rejected Christ’s teachings a hundreds of years of tradition
Nobody ever paid money for the forgiveness of sins. Indulgences have nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins. They are done in order to limit your time in purgatory. Even during the abuses of indulgences in the middle ages, getting your sins forgiven by a priest was always free. Also, monetary indulgences weren't the only form of indulgence. Going on a pilgrimage was also an indulgence. Helping the poor was an indulgence. The Church still has these indulgences to this day.
Also, purgatory does have its basis in scripture - it's just that those references are in books if the Bible that Martin Luther removed during the protestant reformation because he personally didn't like the idea of purgatory. He also wanted to remove the book of James as well because its states in there that "faith without works is dead", but fortunately he wasn't able to do so.
And lastly, translating the Bible was not illegal in the middle ages. The first translation of the Bible from the original hebrew and Greek into Latin was by Saint Jerome in the 4th century. A translation of the Bible simply had to be approved by the Church, because otherwise it could lead to mistranslations and misunderstandings of scripture, which could lead to heresy. Besides, 90% of people were illiterate in the middle ages. If you were educated and could read, then you could read Latin and therefore could read the Bible. There was no reason to translate the Bible into the vernacular back then because most people wouldn't have been able to read it anyway.
i KOPE WARHORSE stands their ground on this one like they did on KCD1.....
They released the gameplay and it’s like KCD1 on steroids. I can’t be happier with what they have shown us. In Warhorse we trust!
All points are valid. Plus a bonus: Bohemia is not very diverse even now. Outside tourist centres you do not meet a black person on a daily basis. We do have a lot of people of Asian descent, but that's it. There are many reasons for it. The local language is too hard to learn and the economy is stronger in the western Europe so why to stay here.
I was surprised to know there is a pretty big Vietnamese-Czech population living in Czechia. Pretty interesting considering the fact they are not really recent immigrants (1-20 years ago).
I think it would be kinda cool if there was lets say either a side mission or even a dlc like woman's lot, Band of Bastards etc where there is a coloured person/people who need some kind of help or something along the lines of that maybe they had to escape their home country and now they want to convert to Christianity and find a job or something like that and we could help them accomplish that
Can't wait for game jounralists crying again that there are no black representation in medival Bohemia XD
Guys…the first episode was massively successful, generally praised and 2nd instalment is eagerly awaited…don’t you think you blow it out of proportions ?
Someone once said this about the topic: Not a conversation worth having.
But yet people brought it up. I like to be informed and use facts to support what should be the be all end all. It’s the 15th century. Things were different back then. Go google and spend a few days researching the topic. You’ll come to the same conclusion.
I think people imagine that there was a universal language back then so everybody could have understood everybody else.
If you traveled from Ethiopia to Prague, for instance, how many languages would you have had to speak? Sure you can communicate with hand and feet but how do you judge the difference between a thief and an actual toll collector? How will you understand and answer their questions towards the goods you transport?
I think a relay race equivalent is much, MUCH more believable where every step of the route the traders would have had t have basic language skills on the side where they bought things and basic language skills on the side they sold and nothing more.
Latin was the scholar's language and certainly not understood universally. Greeks was probably in a similar and even more restricted situation.
Oh and by the way, you kinda pointed in the direction but it would have been great if you had clarified that it wasn't the church burning people for things like heresy. Inquisitions gave expert testimony but the verdict and sentencing was up to secular courts.
Depending on the region there were trading languages, Early in Europe Latin was widely used and later French, tho German had also a large impact.
(Byzantine) Greek was also widely used in the more eastern regions. (In Hungary until the 19th century the "official" language was Latin. In day to day people talked Hungarian or one of the minority languages, but every official document had to be in Latin, so any place that had a scribe or someone official who had to write things down had a Latin speaker). Similar instances like you describe with an "Ethiopian" did happen , but that was usually an official envoy (the Japanese for instance sent some on a Portuguese ship, tho obviously later then the 15th century). Those were important people who were only met by important people and we have historical records of it because it was such a big deal and out of ordinary thing. Depending on the region peasants might be multilingual, but that's usually in regions were there are multiple ethnicities present, usually German or Hungarian + a Slavic language for example.
The regional trade languages are true today as well, if you speak English, French, Spanish, German, Russian, Arabic and Japanese you can travel the world easily. While not being able to talk to everyone, you'd always have a good chance to find a person who can speak one of those languages, even in very remote areas.
The difference between back then and today is that today we only need those 7 after Victorian Imperialism and globalised trade spread those languages very wide and with the internet the most dominant one, English, is becoming even more universal and dominant. Meanwhile back then a lot of the world trade was more separated into different zones and only a rich person could afford an expedition with multiple guides and translators. The famous christian pilgrim who travelled to Europe in the 13th century (Rabban Bar Sauma) could probably only achieve this because he was made an ambassador and it was in the interest of the Mongols that he would make contact with European kings.
(Once again, such an out of the ordinary event that there are historical records of it and of course nowhere near Bohemia).
The only non Europeans that were remotely regular in Europe around that time were the Saracens/North Africans in Spain (the reconquista finished in the late 15th century) and Mongols/Tatars in the regions around Ukraine and Russia.
PS: From Ethiopia to Prague in the early 15th century Arabic, Greek and Latin would probably be enough, tho German would be quite helpful once arriving by ship and travelling from (most likely) Venice up to Prague. If the person goes over land (which would be a huge detour) then Greek would be also needed to travel through Anatolia and the Balkans.
Nobility and wealth people in middle ages can travel much more faster.
Charles IV could go from Prague to Nuremberg in two days.
And if you look on cities on trading route from that day (most of them still exist), they are approximately 30 km from each other.
It was a half day go there, possibly seling something to wealth people. Or they could move to next bigger town.
Doing like 60km per day easy.
Even in that times there were good roads, especially these they were in kings interest.
I blame Disney
Disney isn’t what it used to be… That’s for sure.
I think, in the big city in the middleages there could be some jewish ghetto.
And maybe some gypsies - the only probable dark skinned people here at that time.
The first Ghettos were created in 16th century Italy. That's after the middleages.
they dont wanna brown people brown is still too white in their eyes they wanna midnight black people in game
@@Darilon12you are wrong
If there is any anachronistic diversity in KCD2, I am going to have a serious face-to-face talk with the first leftwinger I see, if you catch my drift.
Talking about this type of nonsense gives it power
Did you watch the video or did you just come here to post this because you got triggered?
The new way is to rewrite history to tell a more inclusive story. That’ll definitely ensure we learn from past atrocities. 🤦🏿♂️
I don’t give a f about “diversity” issues in this game.
The only issues are those who try to bring the 21st century into it.
Can't wait for another woke-free Game😁
There were Italians and Asians. But no blacks. 😤 Sorry just facts
What about Jews and gypsies?
Diversity in medievel europe😂
@@niro6492 it was there. Just not the kind a small (and loud) minority want to see.
Your research is thorough, and your reasoning appears to be well-intentioned. From a historical standpoint, I largely agree with your points. However, as a social studies teacher with a decade of experience in the classroom, I’d like to offer my perspective on this discussion.
One of the most powerful aspects of video games and movies is their ability to transport us to different times and places, exposing us to experiences and stories we might never encounter otherwise. While it’s true that a person living in 15th-century Bohemia-especially a peasant-would be unlikely to meet someone from Ethiopia or the far reaches of East Asia, the beauty of these mediums lies in their creative flexibility. No matter how "realistic" a game is designed to be, it remains a form of fantasy-an imitation of history rather than a direct reproduction.
If we are to argue for absolute realism, then we must also question the many inherently fantastical elements that games include-like the ability to save progress by drinking a potion or becoming a master swordsman after just a few days of relentless practice, fueled by a diet of cheese and ale.
Now, let me explain why diversity in video games, including KCD, is not only beneficial but essential, even if it isn't entirely historically accurate. The reality is that history is filled with countless untold and uncelebrated stories, particularly those of marginalized groups. As you mentioned in your video, there were undoubtedly people in the 15th century who were gay, gender-divergent, or came from different ethnic backgrounds. However, due to the harsh material realities of that era, they often couldn’t live their lives openly, and if they did, they were frequently shunned or faced worse fates.
In the world of video games, these material constraints do not exist. So why, then, do we resist the opportunity to elevate the stories of those whose voices were historically silenced? By including these stories, even if they aren't strictly realistic, we acknowledge that these people existed and that their lives mattered. This representation allows those who identify with these stories today to feel seen, validated, and understood.
Moreover, diversity in games offers a unique opportunity to broaden our horizons and challenge our perspectives. Introducing players to the rich stories and experiences of people from other cultures who existed during the same time period can deepen our understanding of history in ways that purely Eurocentric narratives cannot. In the grand scheme of things, does it truly matter if a character from Ethiopia or the Muslim world interacts with a player character in a way that might not have been historically common? What matters is that these interactions expose players to different cultures, ideas, and histories, enriching the narrative and offering a more nuanced view of the world.
At the end of the day, the character you play-whether it’s Henry or another protagonist-isn’t real. Henry doesn’t have an opinion on seeing someone with black skin or encountering a person who challenges the norms of his time-because Henry is a construct, a series of pixels brought to life by code. But you, the player, are real. You are capable of learning, growing, reasoning, and engaging in meaningful dialogues. To limit your experience of the medieval world in the name of "realism"-especially when the medium is already imbued with elements of fantasy-is a missed opportunity to explore the richness of human experience.
Diversity of experience and perspective is one of the most powerful and beautiful aspects of video games. For those who are underrepresented, seeing themselves reflected in the media they consume is more than just gratifying-it can be life-affirming. For others, these representations can serve as an introduction to new cultures and stories, sparking curiosity and empathy. And to those in the comments who dismiss inclusion as “western liberal brainrot,” I urge you to reconsider what you're truly advocating for. Such a dismissive opinion overlooks the profound impact that representation has on individuals and communities. It’s not just about catering to a specific political agenda or forcing modern ideals onto historical narratives. It’s about recognizing that history is far richer and more complex than what has traditionally been depicted.
The notion that including diverse characters or stories somehow dilutes the authenticity of a game is rooted in a narrow understanding of both history and human experience. By dismissing inclusion as mere “brainrot,” we ignore the reality that the past was filled with a brilliant array of cultures, identities, and experiences. These stories have often been marginalized or erased, not because they didn’t exist, but because those in power controlled the narratives that were preserved and told.
Incorporating diverse perspectives into a game like Kingdom Come: Deliverance doesn’t just enrich the narrative-it challenges players to engage with history in a more thoughtful and nuanced way. It pushes us to consider the lives and contributions of those who were left out of the dominant historical records. It invites us to ask questions, to learn, and to grow beyond the limitations of our own perspectives.
To dismiss these efforts as nothing more than “liberal brainrot” is to deny the opportunity for deeper understanding and connection. It’s a refusal to acknowledge the value of diverse experiences and the ways in which they can enhance our engagement with history, even in a fictional setting.
Ultimately, inclusion in video games isn’t about rewriting history; it’s about offering a more complete picture-one that recognizes the complexity of the past and the people who lived it. It’s about creating spaces where all players can see themselves reflected, where they can explore stories that resonate with them on a personal level, and where they can be introduced to perspectives they might never have considered otherwise.
So, if you seek a historically grounded medieval game, that's commendable. But recognize that diversity doesn’t detract from the realism-it can elevate it by presenting a fuller, more inclusive picture of the past. What concerns me is that when I read comments on videos like this, I often see the term “realism” being used as a thinly veiled excuse for excluding LGBTQ+ individuals or people of color from these narratives. If we were to truly prioritize realism, then Henry would have likely succumbed to blood loss or infection before even leaving Talmberg after his initial arrow wound.
The real issue here isn't about historical accuracy-it's about the underlying discomfort with seeing diverse identities represented in a space that has traditionally been dominated by narrow perspectives. "Realism" should not be a shield for exclusion; instead, it should be a tool that helps us explore and celebrate the complexity and diversity of human history.
I appreciate the thesis and I see value in some of the points you are making.
However you are falling in a trap of your own making. You are looking at it from a 21st century perspective which I specifically mention at the end of the video you shouldn't do.
It is a work of fiction that tells a story from the 15th century perspective. Hard stop. The conversation simply ends there. The explanation behind that is the video you just watched.
There are other games that will have what people seek. Like Dragon Age: The Veilguard for instance which I am looking forward to a lot.
Instead of looking at it as an attack simply look at it as a story that isn't for everybody. I can't stand romance books but my wife? She loves them. Just pick up the next book. Or in this case game. There are plenty of them out there!
Boy, I'm glad I didn't have you as a teacher! Your wall of text drips with sanctimony and condescension. Dishonest propaganda has no place in any game I would consider buying, or in the classroom for that matter.
The game is first and foremost telling a story. And its completely up to its creators what story and how they are going to tell it. Its telling a story of a certain guy in a certain, and lets face it, even if it seeks realism, its still somehow fictional, world. Why should it aim to reflect players own personal experience from real world? If the players want to resonate on personal level with the game and if they want to feel represented, they should probably go play something like The Sims.
The creators of the game have no social obligation to anyone to include elements to the story that they dont want to. Thats just it. Its just like with the books. Some are focused on something, other are focused on something else and its completely fine, because that way, we have the chance to pick what suits us the most. And we just have to face it, not every book is for everybody.
Also, Im pretty sure that you would not be advocating for more white people in a game or book set in medieval Africa or Middle East.
@@boogiesmell5181 That is the end goal of contemporary ideologues. Their vision of utopia. Its a presentist farce of course, but true believers never let reality stand in their way.
Wow, what a great comment! Thank you for all the time you put into writing this, I enjoyed reading every word.
When I started KCD for the first time I knew nothing about the game, but realized I discovered a real gem during the tutorial in Skalitz. However, I really fell in love with the game when it made me feel as an unwelcome refugee in a hostile environment, who tries to make a living. Warhorse touched some very big topics of today and gave me as the player the choice to live up to the stereotypes or prove them wrong - what a masterpiece!
I hope KCD2 has some deep social meaning too. Since the refugee theme won't work quite as well anymore, it could be something different, e.g. through cleverly told sidequests for LGBTQ+ people or travelers/ merchants from outside Europe. Maybe it's even a surprise as big part of the main story - who knows. 😉
I feel if it doesn't have social impact, something great from the first game would be lost. I'm pretty sure Warhorse is perfectly aware of this and will address it. Not in a press conference perhaps, but in the game. Let's see.
I disagree with allmost every point you make. However it's refreshing for a change to see some arguments and some effort in a video about a culture war topic. Nicely done.
I - as a huge fan, don't get me wrong - hope for mor diversity KCD 2 and for Kuttenberg to be a bit of a melting pot. Having two Germans and some Kumans you can't even talk to is a lack of diversity that's historically not supported I think. I think there absolutely should be Jews. I don't know if there was one in Kuttenberg, but would it not be awesome if there was a proper Jewish community in the game? Jews are a big part of European history and I want to see it in KCD2. I'd love to have some actual Kuman characters, with dialouge and quests and stuff like this. Italian bankers, Hungarian cow pasteurs, French monks, Hanseatik traders and so on. And if there was a aethiopian pilgeim or two I would not be mad.
Why would you be against that? It would just make the game more interesting and wouldnmake the wirld feel mor immersive, more alive and more like a real place.
It’s ok to disagree in a respectful manner which I thank you for! But also respectfully: Warhorse has a team of historians who are creating the game as historically accurate as possible. If it’s in the game it’s because it was actually possible for it to happen in 1403 Bohemia.
We have a confirmed Pole and German from the gameplay reveal. And that’s just 25 minutes of gameplay on a game that will be 100 hours easy.
I did research on pilgrim sites but most of them led them to Spain (Santiago de Compostela) and Italy (Rome) which means any potential sub Saharan people would never travel through Bohemia.
I can’t wait to find out what we will see when the game releases. But I also wanted to set realistic expectations.
There wasn’t Jews in Kuttenberg because of silver mining (guilds didn’t want competition with Jews in this), but there were a few hundred Jews in nearby town of Kolin.
NO keep DEI out of games let them cope and seethe