On serial: while today most common lab measurement tools (oscilloscopes, calipers,...) tend to be made with USB, serial is still very common on the more obscure stuff, like some special signal generators, heating chambers and special built stuff. Oftentimes serial is simply preferred, because it's a robust, locking connector with great signal integrity, since it's using higher voltages (+/-15v vs. 0/5V for USB). This is especially useful in - as you mentioned - manufacturing equipment, but also research. I've personally never seen a computer controlled lathe or a mill that used anything else. You simply cannot afford some worker pulling out a USB cable by accident, because even 5 minutes of downtime can cost millions of dollars in a large factory. Same would apply for the various CERN experiments. Computer geeks of today somewhat understandably chuckle when they see one, but it's actually a remarkably well-engineered, robust protocol, in opposition to USB, which has become a hodgepodge of complex standards under one label, especially in recent years (there's like 3 or 4 ways to do audio over USB). VGA is the same, which is, again, why it's still used. TL;DR: "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
You should check out the Lenovo M90n which is about half the size of these units yet still packs a solid punch. I have one specced with an i7 8665U vPro CPU and 16gb RAM that I use for my VM's/Docker. Also has two m.2 pci-e slots which is useful for either ssd's or a NIC/HBA if using a riser cable.
So, i know like this not might be a problem everyone gonna have but there are old devices that aren't compatible with newer USB 3.0 or above ports. Personally i have an old android tablet that wouldn't connect to my tiny machine because the configuration that i have doesn't include any USB 2.0 port. So on these review it would help some folks out to mention about USB incompatibility if they run an electronic repair shop or home lab that use older equipments
Great video!! the only thing I am missing in series is ranking of all of these by performance or by how could are they for small lab cluster purpose (which I understand whole series is about) in one ultimate list.. with every video list should be updated and newly tested device, should be placed where it belongs in the list
@@ServeTheHomeVideo no problems, I understand the difficulty. Maybe making up some points system could help (how upgradable is, max ram, best CPU, M2 ssd support, available ports, case size..).. Just idea ;)
i have a m600 with an external gpu attached and i got a 170w barrel style power supply with a flat tip converter i game on this thing everyday and im within 40-80 fps on medium to high on Afew AAA titles im please with these small PCs and they seem to be the future if u ask me ..
Nowadays where you get Nvidia Quadro P620 GPUs for $60 on ebay i upgraded my tiny M920q to a small gaming PC. Just had to order a $6 riser card from Aliexpress and drill holes in the case like the Thinkstation P330 has it for the GPU vent. PSU i already had a 135W one. After 200 weeks of research: yes the ONLY GPUs that fit are Nvidia Quadro ones (P600, P620, P1000, T400, T600, T1000). You don’t get 400fps, but for X-plane it is more than OK. Just don’t spend more than $100 on the GPU, on bigger PCs you get a used GTX 1660 for $120 with double the performance. Or for $250 a brand new RX6650XT for quadruple perf.
question - how loud does the fan get? I have a Shuttle XPC Slim and every 5 minutes it revs up the fan and sounds like it's about to to take off. Nothing wrong with it, that's just the way it's designed. Are the m720q any better?
Not impressed that they intentionally removed the ability to add a second nvme drive - like, they actively made a decision to remove it in order to sell it back to the user in a higher-end model. Business is business, sure - but at some point greed has to be pointed to and called out as well.
They also made the decision to limit the 920Q socket to 35w... Even on unlocked CPUS. The 920X and the P330 Tiny both have the socket limit raised to ~65-90w (can't remember exact wattage) pretty sure the hardware is the same mainboard with only small additions. This allowed one reddit user to even put a 9900k in his P330 Tiny.
Agreed. I've been looking for a mini PC like this with two NIC ports. They have them. However they all seem to support only the Celeron line of Intel CPU's. Out of all the mini pcs I've been looking at. Only Shuttle has a barebones system with two NICs. I think it may be possible to add a second NIC to this mini from the video. I'd have to research further though.
@@ystebadvonschlegel3295 It would be nice, but for 10GbE I'm more in need of a cheap switch. Even 2.5 and 5GbE would be enough for my Home Lab. But for the switch I don't need processing power. I had a Qotom 4x1GbE, Atom based. It was OK, I guess, but if you want to use it for IPS or IDS, or even with smart QoS, the Atom is just too slow. I'd like something that can route 1Gbps with IDS, has 4 ports, and doesn't cost too much! But I just can't find it for less than $500.
starshipeleven I hope that will change. Not sure why we can get 10gbps through a USB3 port with no problem but an Ethernet 10GB port causes so much heat, but it is what it is.
This was great. Wondering if this would work for a basic media server actually with the chip that it has and the expandability especially if I'm good with using a few external USB drives.
At the moment Microsoft is not enforcing restrictions on license key resellers. That completely changes the cost equation towards building new yourself. Also building yourself gives you a machine that instantly gives you hundreds of dollars of reselling value --- the ability to put in any decent video card such as an Nvidia 1660 to create a gaming machine.
The point of these machines is actually that they are smaller and lower power than a GTX 1660 system can be. Building something bigger is easy, but if you want 3-5 of them, having compact systems is key, especially in urban areas. An i5-9600T is around $200 used, $50 for the 16GB stick, $50 for the SSD and we get a $175 premium for the motherboard, chassis, cooler, power supply, and Win 10 Pro. This is also ready to go without any assembly so for those of us where time is very expensive, 30-60 minutes to put something together is very expensive. I totally get there are other segments out there, but we are not covering gaming here.
Hey, thanks for the video. I'm just read all these comments, and i find the Gpu thing questionable. Do you have any range of gpu-s that can fit in there . Im highly interested to buy onr of these tinys just to use Photoshop web browsing and video editing, so im highly interested in the best choice of graphic card. Please let me know. Greetings from hungary
I'm very interested in a box like this that would be good for zoneminder. Also something with at least two gb ethernet ports if not 3-4 for firewall duties.
My any chance do you a video explaining every connection inside the MB I see a bunch of spare port empty and I was looking at a the manual and connector 4 say dc connector? O wonder what's this for and where can I find a cable for for it i believe is an an 8pin connector wondering if it can supply power to a GC or any other upgrade I wanna build a miniature gaming pc to run it on My car for long trips
I have second sata drive installed that gets unusually hot after 30 minutes use - reaches 45-50C. Makes me worried. My laptop sata never gets that hot.
Great question. The Z2's are 2.5-3x as big, more costly, and use much more power. John just did a Xeon W-1290P review on the STH main site which shows just how much more power/ performance you can get in those types of systems www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-w-1290p-benchmarks-and-review-a-top-end-sku/ If we can get one cheap, we can work on adding them to the comparison.
I work in IT and we are getting rid of all desktops and moving to laptops with USB C docks. We had excess stock of these so managed to get one brand new for £50. i5 8500T, 8gb DDR4. 256gb NVMe. Absolute steal. I am using mine for tiny server based roles. I added a 500gb internal drive and a 1tb external which I put some shared folders on.
Has anybody actually seen these with the thunderbolt add in? It looks like lenovo scrapped this from what I have seen online, and have never seen this in the wild.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't that "special" slot be used for any very small PCIe card on a riser? I've been thinking about building a dedicated Tiny/Mini/Micro node for CAD, but want something I can throw my tiny Quadro K1200 in. Am I crazy or would I be able to rock an i7-9700T with a Quadro K1200 in this chassis? Max power consumption would be 35W CPU + 45W GPU.
You can find effectively this already made if you look at like the Lenovo ThinkStation P330 Tiny. We did the P320 but the P330 has additional cooling. Those are more for multi-monitor but they have Pascal Quadro GPUs. Also, we have a M920x with a Radeon R560 I believe. 75W GPU is hard to cool
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thanks for the reply. I'll look into those. I mistyped, the GPU is a 45W (I have now edited my original post). The advantage of the K1200 is that I already own it and it has 4GB of VRAM (double the 2GB in the P620 in the Lenovo P330 Tiny, although Solidworks also officially supports that GPU too). Definitely would prefer a workstation card over a consumer Radeon card. Do you know if it would be physically possible to install my K1200 (a low-profile half-length single-slot GPU) with the riser in the system (even if it's a dumb idea)? Love the content of this series!
@@noahlistgarten7832 It might be possible, but I think there is a decent chance you are going to run into issues. That is why I would recommend either the P330/P320 or just getting a slightly larger system. You also need to do things like get the 135W PSU, riser, likely will need to custom make a backplane solution. Then hope everything fits and is able to be cooled in there. To me, seems like too many variables. Always an option to sell the K1200 and use it for the systems with designed-in GPUs. The P330, for example, has a larger airflow cutout for the GPUs that the M920q does not have.
The first thing I did was to see if there is a nic card for this. But unfortunately on Lenovos page it only has VGA. I would love to see something like this with even one (1) extra nic... With the performance that this thing has I can retire some 1U servers... But unfortunately it looks like Lenovo is determined to make it a terminal 😔
![⭐️( ลอยกระทง 2024 ) Ver. แดนซ์ Remix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rMWOLhgXUHc/mqdefault.jpg)
On serial: while today most common lab measurement tools (oscilloscopes, calipers,...) tend to be made with USB, serial is still very common on the more obscure stuff, like some special signal generators, heating chambers and special built stuff. Oftentimes serial is simply preferred, because it's a robust, locking connector with great signal integrity, since it's using higher voltages (+/-15v vs. 0/5V for USB). This is especially useful in - as you mentioned - manufacturing equipment, but also research. I've personally never seen a computer controlled lathe or a mill that used anything else. You simply cannot afford some worker pulling out a USB cable by accident, because even 5 minutes of downtime can cost millions of dollars in a large factory. Same would apply for the various CERN experiments. Computer geeks of today somewhat understandably chuckle when they see one, but it's actually a remarkably well-engineered, robust protocol, in opposition to USB, which has become a hodgepodge of complex standards under one label, especially in recent years (there's like 3 or 4 ways to do audio over USB). VGA is the same, which is, again, why it's still used. TL;DR: "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
who are you? bill gate
Have you considered adding a page comparing all the Project TinyMiniMicro nodes? I'd love to have a quick overview.
Yes, it's called a pc
@@ev8425 tf?
@@denispalt9184 what about my mom?
The best of 920 and 720 is the pcie expansion, a 10ge nic or 4poorts gige nic would make it really promising as a small home lab.
Talk about timing! I also can't think of anything bad to say about the M920Q series. Terrific platform.
They are amazing! I have like 4 or 5 of them.
Thank you for putting this project together.
Hope that toolless NVME slot will become the norm , that design is cool - and if it breaks you can just use an nvme screw to secure it!
You should check out the Lenovo M90n which is about half the size of these units yet still packs a solid punch. I have one specced with an i7 8665U vPro CPU and 16gb RAM that I use for my VM's/Docker. Also has two m.2 pci-e slots which is useful for either ssd's or a NIC/HBA if using a riser cable.
We have one inbound albeit the 8GB Core i5 $399 special
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Nice! Looking forward to the review!
So, i know like this not might be a problem everyone gonna have but there are old devices that aren't compatible with newer USB 3.0 or above ports. Personally i have an old android tablet that wouldn't connect to my tiny machine because the configuration that i have doesn't include any USB 2.0 port.
So on these review it would help some folks out to mention about USB incompatibility if they run an electronic repair shop or home lab that use older equipments
Ooh! That lacking wifi card is the perfect space for a coral AI addin card!
Great Review on tiny but powerful CPU. Thank you.
Which one should I choose? Dell Optiflex 3060 or Thinkcentre 920q?
I really love your content. Please slow down, its not a race.
BOOM black sweatshirt is too good
Great video!! the only thing I am missing in series is ranking of all of these by performance or by how could are they for small lab cluster purpose (which I understand whole series is about) in one ultimate list.. with every video list should be updated and newly tested device, should be placed where it belongs in the list
The challenge with it is that we buy one configuration, but there are huge option ranges. I get the point though so let me see what I can do.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo no problems, I understand the difficulty. Maybe making up some points system could help (how upgradable is, max ram, best CPU, M2 ssd support, available ports, case size..)..
Just idea ;)
Can you please give me directions to reinstall windows on this Lenovo thinkcentre thanks need help
i have a m600 with an external gpu attached and i got a 170w barrel style power supply with a flat tip converter i game on this thing everyday and im within 40-80 fps on medium to high on Afew AAA titles im please with these small PCs and they seem to be the future if u ask me ..
Nice. Better capabilities than the Dell micro I had. But if I am stuck with Intel graphics, I will be waiting til the Xe 11 gen chips come out.
Nowadays where you get Nvidia Quadro P620 GPUs for $60 on ebay i upgraded my tiny M920q to a small gaming PC. Just had to order a $6 riser card from Aliexpress and drill holes in the case like the Thinkstation P330 has it for the GPU vent. PSU i already had a 135W one. After 200 weeks of research: yes the ONLY GPUs that fit are Nvidia Quadro ones (P600, P620, P1000, T400, T600, T1000). You don’t get 400fps, but for X-plane it is more than OK.
Just don’t spend more than $100 on the GPU, on bigger PCs you get a used GTX 1660 for $120 with double the performance. Or for $250 a brand new RX6650XT for quadruple perf.
Thank you for the great video. You have an awesome day as well. :)
i have the m720q with core i5 9500t 2.2ghz turbo 3.7, 12gb ddr4 dual channel 256gb ssd micron.
question - how loud does the fan get? I have a Shuttle XPC Slim and every 5 minutes it revs up the fan and sounds like it's about to to take off. Nothing wrong with it, that's just the way it's designed. Are the m720q any better?
@@noeldown1952 the thermal paste is still the original? i am using Grizzly Thermal Pad Carbonaut. max 71ºc and less 50db on cb r20
Not impressed that they intentionally removed the ability to add a second nvme drive - like, they actively made a decision to remove it in order to sell it back to the user in a higher-end model.
Business is business, sure - but at some point greed has to be pointed to and called out as well.
They also made the decision to limit the 920Q socket to 35w... Even on unlocked CPUS. The 920X and the P330 Tiny both have the socket limit raised to ~65-90w (can't remember exact wattage) pretty sure the hardware is the same mainboard with only small additions. This allowed one reddit user to even put a 9900k in his P330 Tiny.
It’s neat, it’s got everything my Kaby lake system has but smaller, faster and more compact it’s neat
I can buy a refurbished one with an Intel Core i5-8400T, 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD for 430 EUR. Is it still a good buy?
That set cost 210€
Is it worth it and does it over heat ?
I want something like this with at least 2 LAN ports, preferably 4 LAN ports... and cheaper! :P
Agreed. I've been looking for a mini PC like this with two NIC ports. They have them. However they all seem to support only the Celeron line of Intel CPU's. Out of all the mini pcs I've been looking at. Only Shuttle has a barebones system with two NICs. I think it may be possible to add a second NIC to this mini from the video. I'd have to research further though.
Check Amazon for Qotom or Protectli. From Celeron to i7. Up to six Ethernet ports.
Me too, but even more 10GB ports- so it sounds like maybe USB3 to Eth ports are the way to go, but then it’s a dongle....
@@ystebadvonschlegel3295 It would be nice, but for 10GbE I'm more in need of a cheap switch. Even 2.5 and 5GbE would be enough for my Home Lab. But for the switch I don't need processing power. I had a Qotom 4x1GbE, Atom based. It was OK, I guess, but if you want to use it for IPS or IDS, or even with smart QoS, the Atom is just too slow. I'd like something that can route 1Gbps with IDS, has 4 ports, and doesn't cost too much! But I just can't find it for less than $500.
starshipeleven I hope that will change. Not sure why we can get 10gbps through a USB3 port with no problem but an Ethernet 10GB port causes so much heat, but it is what it is.
I’m putting a GTX 1650 in one of this. Yes, there is but one half height single slot GTX 1650 in existence, made by ASL.
Oh, and it’s paired with an i5 9400f. I’m out of my mind, thanks in advance for reminding me that.
Hope you can answer! What card con fit in this cpu??
@@davidsuare572 I didn’t understand your question, sorry.
@@Nanorisk could you put a video card to this pc??
@@davidsuare572 yes, but only half-height single-slot short cards. The most powerful one so far is the ASL 1650.
How do you use it??!!
This was great. Wondering if this would work for a basic media server actually with the chip that it has and the expandability especially if I'm good with using a few external USB drives.
I’m wondering do you have to have a wifi cord in order to use it ? Or I could just use wireless wifi
What systems have 2 nvme slots so far I know the g5 800 does any others?
What's the power consumption ?
I live the Lenovo M720 / M920 PCs :)
Does any of them go up to 64gb ram?
@@andrievbastichy8551 I remember all the tiny/mini/micro nodes they have tested worked fine with 64G;
@@andrievbastichy8551 why would you need 64gb for ram
I thought 27gb was already enough but 64 is a bit wild
excellent video
Thank you Tom
Can you use this to stream games on switch or ps4/5?
Will you test the tr pro in which is lenovo exclusive?
Can you upgrade the CPU?
These are socketed processors, so yes. They use the same socket as the 65W desktop chips - 115x
Love your vids. Support
Have one with i5 8500t, 16gb ram.
Ideal pc for my rekordbox software.
Hi man. Can you please let me know what are the temps that you get in this cpu on a normal usage, not playing games. Thanks
I'm using this
At the moment Microsoft is not enforcing restrictions on license key resellers. That completely changes the cost equation towards building new yourself. Also building yourself gives you a machine that instantly gives you hundreds of dollars of reselling value --- the ability to put in any decent video card such as an Nvidia 1660 to create a gaming machine.
The point of these machines is actually that they are smaller and lower power than a GTX 1660 system can be. Building something bigger is easy, but if you want 3-5 of them, having compact systems is key, especially in urban areas. An i5-9600T is around $200 used, $50 for the 16GB stick, $50 for the SSD and we get a $175 premium for the motherboard, chassis, cooler, power supply, and Win 10 Pro. This is also ready to go without any assembly so for those of us where time is very expensive, 30-60 minutes to put something together is very expensive.
I totally get there are other segments out there, but we are not covering gaming here.
Hey, thanks for the video.
I'm just read all these comments, and i find the Gpu thing questionable. Do you have any range of gpu-s that can fit in there . Im highly interested to buy onr of these tinys just to use Photoshop web browsing and video editing, so im highly interested in the best choice of graphic card. Please let me know. Greetings from hungary
It can also come with an AMD Ryzen 5 with vega8 graphics which I have and it plays eso perfectly, though with lower graphics.
It comes with an amd ryzen 5 graphics card?
what is the difference between this unit and m720q tiny ? they look the same!
920 has vPro and a wider range of options and CPUs. So on the whole not much difference...
I just one someone to show me how to connect the dang rear wifi antenna xD
I'm very interested in a box like this that would be good for zoneminder. Also something with at least two gb ethernet ports if not 3-4 for firewall duties.
Hi can i use any brand of keyboard?
Yes
@@ServeTheHomeVideo thanks 👑
@@ServeTheHomeVideo btw any Lenovo mini PC's??
Is it possible to connect the device with the Lenovo docking station?
My any chance do you a video explaining every connection inside the MB I see a bunch of spare port empty and I was looking at a the manual and connector 4 say dc connector? O wonder what's this for and where can I find a cable for for it i believe is an an 8pin connector wondering if it can supply power to a GC or any other upgrade I wanna build a miniature gaming pc to run it on My car for long trips
I have second sata drive installed that gets unusually hot after 30 minutes use - reaches 45-50C. Makes me worried. My laptop sata never gets that hot.
damn shame that second nvme spot doesnt have a slot! do any of the M920 series have it?
models ending with X
Would the HP Z2 Mini also count? Lenovo P330 Tiny would be the one with the Quadro in it.
Great question. The Z2's are 2.5-3x as big, more costly, and use much more power. John just did a Xeon W-1290P review on the STH main site which shows just how much more power/ performance you can get in those types of systems www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-w-1290p-benchmarks-and-review-a-top-end-sku/
If we can get one cheap, we can work on adding them to the comparison.
I work in IT and we are getting rid of all desktops and moving to laptops with USB C docks. We had excess stock of these so managed to get one brand new for £50.
i5 8500T, 8gb DDR4. 256gb NVMe. Absolute steal.
I am using mine for tiny server based roles. I added a 500gb internal drive and a 1tb external which I put some shared folders on.
Mine is blinking on a little green light at front below a cilinder figure?? Is not working the internet port.
Has anybody actually seen these with the thunderbolt add in? It looks like lenovo scrapped this from what I have seen online, and have never seen this in the wild.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't that "special" slot be used for any very small PCIe card on a riser? I've been thinking about building a dedicated Tiny/Mini/Micro node for CAD, but want something I can throw my tiny Quadro K1200 in. Am I crazy or would I be able to rock an i7-9700T with a Quadro K1200 in this chassis? Max power consumption would be 35W CPU + 45W GPU.
You can find effectively this already made if you look at like the Lenovo ThinkStation P330 Tiny. We did the P320 but the P330 has additional cooling. Those are more for multi-monitor but they have Pascal Quadro GPUs. Also, we have a M920x with a Radeon R560 I believe. 75W GPU is hard to cool
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thanks for the reply. I'll look into those. I mistyped, the GPU is a 45W (I have now edited my original post). The advantage of the K1200 is that I already own it and it has 4GB of VRAM (double the 2GB in the P620 in the Lenovo P330 Tiny, although Solidworks also officially supports that GPU too). Definitely would prefer a workstation card over a consumer Radeon card. Do you know if it would be physically possible to install my K1200 (a low-profile half-length single-slot GPU) with the riser in the system (even if it's a dumb idea)? Love the content of this series!
@@noahlistgarten7832 It might be possible, but I think there is a decent chance you are going to run into issues. That is why I would recommend either the P330/P320 or just getting a slightly larger system. You also need to do things like get the 135W PSU, riser, likely will need to custom make a backplane solution. Then hope everything fits and is able to be cooled in there. To me, seems like too many variables. Always an option to sell the K1200 and use it for the systems with designed-in GPUs. The P330, for example, has a larger airflow cutout for the GPUs that the M920q does not have.
This is what you put in a smartboard
Anything in the arm space with that sort of connectivity and say 8+gb ram? On the search for a AArch64 build server.
are these ok forganibg?
Is it a face time or product review video?
350 cheepest one in my country. used
does it have a magnification program ? im legally blind
What is the difference between Lenovo ThinkCentre M series and Neo series?
Hi, I have a problem with the wifi of my m720q tiny. I wanted to know if you also have a problem with the wifi.
I got one but it won’t let me connect to the internet
so why can't hp and dell make one this small
Your eyebrows are wanted by homeland security
What’s the difference between ddr and dimm
DIMM is the slot you put a DDR module in.
How do I reinstall windows on this computer
You should be able to do a USB key fresh installation. We sometimes do that when changing drives.
im trying to love this tiny desktop but i just cant - 3 reasons : no built in wifi, no bluetooth , no dedicated graphic card that can support gaming.
you have pcie slot with riser can put dedicated GPU
how to add the vga port? com1 ? com2?
Bro iff you put a a i9 in this thing you will have to red neck a delta fan on top off it
The first thing I did was to see if there is a nic card for this. But unfortunately on Lenovos page it only has VGA. I would love to see something like this with even one (1) extra nic... With the performance that this thing has I can retire some 1U servers... But unfortunately it looks like Lenovo is determined to make it a terminal 😔
There is an official i350-T4 option.
it's compatible with normal ssd m.2 ,,, a simple cheap one ? (no nvme or pci gen3)
Probably not a SATA M.2, but any PCIe variant would work.
Personally I don’t see those tiny desktop pcs as a real desktop more like a laptop in a small box rather than in a laptop body
I do too, but having a desktop socketed CPU is a nice feature
My t8plus will smoke that shit
What is it?!!! Nobody says. I’m looking all over
its kinda if you wanna play roblox cause it lags
Can it run😂diablo Fortnite
"what the heck" how very american.
First ever
my thinkcenter m710 doesn't display. how can i fix it