4 Mistakes that Kill Bass - Car Audio Subwoofer Improvements!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- When you install an aftermarket subwoofer or speakers into your vehicle you want to get as much performance as possible. Unfortunately though there are four things that can easily lead to poor bass response. In this video we talk about how to potentially fix a lack of bass or subwoofer output.
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➜ PT-9A Phase Polarity Tester explained in this video: goo.gl/e1foSH
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Big shout out to bassheads who began their life as an audiophile using home speakers in the trunk. ✌
EDIT* Extra shout out to all of you out there who dropped a comment like you drop bass.*
Lol I thought I was the only one
That's how I started!
I was the opposite, I used car subs in home audio boxes in the house, but that was years before I could drive😂😂
N. Vzla SAME!!!! 😂😂😂😂
Old Cerwin Vegas!!!
Even though I'd been into stereos since the late eighties, I still watch a lot of these videos. You're never too old to learn something new or possibly see something you've overlooked or even forgotten. Not to mention things have changed over the years. Not drastically but enough that it does make a difference.
But you can be too young to learn.
It's like buying a new F150! We all fell in love with our 1st 99-05 trucks. V8s, ext cabs(more room for box/amps, some still on road today! ⏩️20yrs Stock head units are better & wiring is a 🌊⛱️
agreed
mid '70's here.. same thing bro!!
I won’t lie , this is one of those expensive hobbies
This and saltwater fish tanks... just don’t go there
Anything Car related is usually expensive lol
Nah man. Guitars are the biggest money pits.
Good God yes man.The amount I've spent on car audio over the years, I could've bought a house or a Rolls Royce.
Try saltwater aquariums, my friend.
I'm actually quite impressed by this video... this dude actually knows what he's talking about(which I've found, somewhat lacking in the car audio world).. and He's good at communicating what he knows in plain English without confusing people by the more maths heavy aspects of Thiele/Small parameters that bamboozle many folks.
This is wonderful information my og grandma can now correctly install her 2 18" subs into her hatchback and listen to her classic tunes of a timeless era.
George Formby's clean windows FTW!
lmao
Is your grandma single? She sounds hot.
Hahahahahahahahaha you're wonderful!
those subwoofers are too big for the trunk of a hatchback
Rule #1 for bass - there is no replacement for displacement. Cone area and XMax are critical. If you want big bass, the largest woofer you can fit into the car is the approach to take. But consider sensitivity as well. Some subs have great specs, but sensitivity so low you are going to have to put huge power into them to generate the same SPL as a lesser woofer.
Rule #2 Adding subs is not as effective as having a good sub in there the first place. Double the subs is NOT double the bass. You get like, 3-6 dB more output. So, generally speaking, I'd rather spend about $200 on an awesome sub than $100 on two OK subs in a car environment. You save room and money. In a home environment, the logic shifts - 2 good subs are generally better than one great sub, because you can get more even in-room response even without EQ.
Rule #3 Double the power is NOT double the bass. 100 watts to 200 watts gleans 3 db or so if the sub can handle it. 200 to 400 gains another 3 db, again, if the sub can handle it. Yes you want to match amps to speaker capability to the greatest extent possible, but in my experience you mainly just want to be sure you can achieve the volume you'd like to listen at without clipping anything.
Rule #4 Marcus forgot to talk about a very important spec - Sensitivity! Assume you have a sub that can do 85 dB @ 1 watt. Then you have a sub that can do 95 dB @ 1 watt. All other things equal, the higher sensitivity sub will play louder with less power than the less sensitive sub. Remember, the "first watt" is really important in the speaker world. With 100 watts, you can drive another 20 dB or so, so speaker A is at 105 dB and speaker B is at 115 dB! For the next 10 dB, you need 1,000 watts, and not many speakers can take that kind of power. A lot of subs out there can do something like 82-86 dB/watt, so cone area and stroke become the next predictors of achievable output. A speaker with 3 dB greater sensitivity is like being able to cut your power in half for the same output. That matters planning your system (AND your budget). Yes Yes I know - cars routinely can hit well over 100 dB, and even 120-150 dB. But for the "average" guy like myself, I need a system that can probably play 70-80 dB on average, with 95-100 dB peaks. It will be vastly easier to get there with more, not less sensitive speakers that make better use of less, not more power! I mean how many of you have a 150-200 amp alternator? Exactly.
Rule #5 This I am less sure about. In a car, you get crazy amounts of cabin gain. So, assuming your subwoofer measured perfectly flat, at what frequency, and rate, should the bass be allowed to roll off? "Full range" music generally reaches down to about 40 hz. Do you need incredible output at 20 hz? No. Do you need some response in the 30hz range? Yes, for the synthetic bass stuff. What is a good rule of thumb, or "target curve" for an in-car subwoofer? According to Audiofrog, you can expect a good 5-20 dB of cabin gain from 60hz down to 20 hz (increasing gain for decreasing frequency). That's a ton. You can easily be down 5-10 dB from 60hz down and still expect to hear good output in the sub-bass frequencies. If you are all about sound quality, a slow roll-off will be rewarded with a "natural" bass boost. IF you build a ported box, which roll off at 24dB/octave, than only a bigger box will generally let you achieve extension. But then the extension might increase the "boom" so much you'll need to play with levels / EQ to get a proper integration.
Rule #6 - Group delay. Yes you can build any box you want, designed for output or convenience, or sound quality or whatever. But having a lot of group delay (above 400-500) probably leads to a "slow" "muddy" sounding bass. Not all woofers are going to like being ported. And not all ported woofers are going to sound stellar unless designed a certain way. Sealed boxes tend to have low group delay, but less "slam", and the "tightness" can sometimes take a bit of the fun out. Personally, in a car, I lean toward ported boxes that allow for some added energy in the 30-50hz area. I hate to plug a company, but the JL Audio Microsub, the 8 inch, truly impressed me with Bass that had some guts, could ALMOST reach all the way down in the songs I played with the most bass, and still managed to sound pretty tight and well behaved as if it were designed for sound quality. If WINISD is correct, it had a pretty slow roll off, and low group delay down to 30 hz or so. A great design, in other words.
No one cares. But I am sharing anyway! Thanks.
This isn't accurate advice. Frequency range, is box tuning, not driver size. Adding drivers is utilizing more cabin space for more motor force that will move air. Driver performance all depends on spider count, spider thickness, motor size, coil size, coil winds, surround size, surround thickness, magnet material, number of magnets, magnet size, pole height and cone material. Any driver can be used in any style of box as long as you take the qts into account for box tuning and as a bonus for you, a very important number to notice while shopping for an amplifier, is the THD rating which means total harmonic distortion. Take my taramps hd4000 for example, the THD is something like .15%, whereas something like a boss phantom 4k would have a THD (if I had to guess) around 15%. This means that the boss amp will give you that 2k rms that they're saying it'll give, but the signal is going to be so dirty, that you could be running the best electrical in the world on drivers that'll take 3k rms all day and still clip them to death from the signal alone.
STOPH3R01991 you didn't read my points very carefully. if you're going to talk about how many spiders and how much THD is in the hypothetical amplifier. I covered displacement (as in air) with cone area and stroke... I don't care what sort of motor design follows...price will be part of whether or not it is a robust design. Frequency response is intrinsic to the driver, and then influenced by the box, and finally the "room". You can make any box on win ISD look flawless and extend to 10hz, doesn't mean it will sound good or that the woofer won't explode etc. That is where the woofer parameters come in.
Matt H Umm. 3-6 dB increase would be doubling the level... 😂😂
The increase is logarithmic.
Thanks u rock
I have had the 8in JL microsub in my Highlander for 4 months now and it's funny you mentioned it because I agree completely. The little guy is magical. It's still blows me away from time to time that something that small can make that sound. For having the third row seat up I can actually still have great Bass.
However, also agreeing with you that it can ALMOST reach all the way down...that actually really annoys me. There are times when you think HOLY COW that thing is amazing! Then there are times when it dissappears. I find myself using the volume knob all the time.
So today I finally had delivered a 10" H.O. Wedge which is JLs prefab ported box for the 10" W3 and dropped it right in the microsubs place and OMG it is perfection. Still tight and musical like the 8" but it drops down deeper. I read some reviews and it seems the 12" version slams but is much less musical. I believe the 10" JL to be the perfect sub for me. It sounds amazing in all genres. The 8 and the 12 seem to have their limitations.
By the way, I am no engineer but I can speak to the debate about multiple Subs versus better subs because I tried to add a second 8" microsub to the original one at first. Doubling the speakers increased my Alpine's RMS to 500 at 2 ohms vs 300 @4 and it was very loud. The problem is loud does not equal deep. It's just louder and frankly one of those little amazing subs is plenty Loud by itself.
The new 10" sub drops much deeper and is also louder because it is 2 ohm itself drawing 500w. The deepness blends perfectly with my car speakers so that you can't hear it by itself... it is just one big musical sound. With the 8" you can kind of hear that there is a speaker trying hard back there at times, if that makes sense. Sometimes you have to quickly turn it down because the "wrong" song comes on. Never distorts mind you...just doesn't sound great.
I didn't run into that problem today with the new 10...it sounds great. I will be keeping my 8in microsub for when I load up the car with kids and don't have room for the 10. Almost seems like a waste but I am not getting rid of it. Maybe I will put it in the wife's car. She's more into rock and older music, not the beats....so that would work better.
My .02.
Thanks for the videos man. I used to install professionally, but that was 20 years ago. Some things have changed, some hasn't. But watching your video's is giving the confidence to tackle my new project. I am doing a custom install in the floor of my cargo area of a 2004 Ford Explorer, while still having full use of the area by not having an enclosure just sitting there.
Hey, I made it to the end of the video. Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to explain car audio. I learned much of it through trial and error as a kid. I'm now 52 but still love my music LOUD! Loud isn't enough though. It has to be very clean and have enough bass to rattle my old bones. I've watched several of your vids thus far and the only thing I'd add is this....Be careful when upgrading your alternator. An alternator that has too much output can destroy your car battery and lead to overcharging issues. So, if you upgrade your alternator and end up replacing your car battery a couple times a year, you likely have a overcharge issue.
Honestly I wish the videos were longer. I learn alot but I'm always itching for more
Thank you bub
clap a small handful of baking soda powder in your underwear.
I was tryna learn about speakers, I think I’m just gonna learn Chinese instead
It may be easier
I always watch your full videos. They are very insightful and extremely informative and helpful. Thanks for the awesome job Mark.
Just want to say thanks for the videos... Took out my Mach speakers in my Mustang convertible, upgraded the head unit, upgraded speakers and did it through two different installers; I realized only after that I needed to do much research before jumping in (Planning phase of your other video), as the sound is lack luster... With COVID freeing up my time, decided to jump back in to make a great sound experience in my car and your videos are helping the path.
I’ve been doing installs in my own and some in vehicles for friends for over 20 years. I recently did an install with around 2400W/RMS... I was having cutouts and cutoffs on bass. I watched a few of these videos and totally forgot to do the Big 3 upgrade 🤦🏼♂️ Thanks for the videos man 🤘🏼
Great video. I watched the entire vid too. 😂😂😂 I tell everyone about your channel that is looking to upgrade their ICE.
I watch every video until the end. I have learned more in 2 months from this channel then I have in the 10 years prior. You and Steve Meade are the places I go for my car audio fix. Lucky for me I live in the same town as Steve so I can go by the shop and pick up what I need.
I appreciate every video u do! I follow a lot of different people on TH-cam, but you keep it real. I always keep coming back to you and exocontralto! You guys are the best! Still learning about routers and wood work. Exo shows what he is currently doing, and you show how it’s possible to get there! You’re work with details and the router are amazing! I have to remember to take it slow and plan it out, like you do. First box I built in the dinning area we don’t use, with a circular saw and jigsaw. Wife was pissed at the dust everywhere, lol. 1/2 inch mdf that was left over from furniture. I now use it as a table in my man cave. Learning is key with each build! Thank you for what you do for all of us!
Thank God someone that knows what they are talking about
for sure
Also, new speakers and especially subs have a break in period. The difference in sound between the day you install and tune and a month or two later is noticeable. Be prepared to retune your settings several times in the first year of your install.
So true.I put a slot ported box ( JL Audio) as a temporary until I put in a customized system.Was ready to ditch the box.2 months later I don't even think I wanna put in a customized system because I'm more than satisfied with the sound, plus the flexibility of being able to R&R the box when I need trunk space.
Thanks for the information! Yes, I did watch the video to the end. Its been a long time since I have installed an audio system in a vehicle, and I've been watching your videos to pick up a tip or two, and to remind me of something that I may have forgotten about.
Thanks for another great how-to video.
I don't think your videos are monotonous at all. I think your videos are exceptionally informative and easy to watch. Thank you!
Not only did I make it to the end, I loved every second of your explainations. I am a 40 year old confessed basshead. I had multiple "systems" in my teens and early 20s. I made a lot of mistakes then and after 20 years of missing that chest pounding bass I am planning to have a bit of a 'mid-life crisis and reinstall some window cracking thump. However, this time I will do it right and your videos are extremely helpful in my journey. BTW I am thinking of starting with a single 12" sundown nsv4 (properly boxed and powered) to start. I think that should be enough.
I made it to the end. I'm an old fart, but I do appreciate the fact that youre cool, know your stuf, and most importantly - put that info in a cohesive, digestible format that makes sense to the listener. Well done!
I like to watch all the videos to the end as I am extremely detailed on almost everything I build. Keep it up!
This helped me make the right decision about everything!!!
Mistake 5 the gain and bass boost on the amplifier should not be cranked all the way up. Seen too many subs get clipped to death because the gains weren't set properly.
Moto Circuity I keep my bass boost off and gain up to as much as it needs but some songs do make it sound distorted but I have a 400 watt amp powering a 1500 sub but I'm getting a Sony xplod 1000 watt amp and I think that will make it sound better
GET HO ALTERNATOR IS THE FIRST THING TO DO
Xplod amps SUCK!! Give me a fucking break. Sony shit - blahhh!
hardly correct chupamishuevos303 ...
my factory alt is 110A , bigger than some aftermarket "h/o" alts.
it depends on your amp more than anything, no sense in getting a high output alt for a 500W rms amp... as chances are your alternator is already making more than enough power..
so it should read as :
"GET HO ALTERNATOR IF DRAWING MORE THAN YOU CAN PROVIDE IS THE FIRST THING TO DO"
Moto Circuity I have some jl audio's set to a 600w amp which is way way below what the subs can handle. I have bass boost on and gains set up all the way. My stereo sounds perfectly fine and bangs heavy. I wouldn't suggest doing this if the amp matches the power they can handle. All I'm doing is burning out my amp faster but I'm not worried about that. These subs can take anything I throw at them.
Id be real interrested in that future planned video.
Also, thanks for covering everything simple but complete
Hey man, you videos are absolutely amazing, full of detail and well said!!. I've been in the audio world for about 15 years and doing car audio professionally now for 5 years. i cant thank you enough for these videos as the 3 I've watched so far gave me some knowledge i didn't quite understand before.i love audio and I'll continue to watch your videos to support you and to learn more about this wide world of Audio!!
I made it to the end. I like the info and builds you put out. I'm about to start my own build, you're inspiring!
Made it to the end and I'm glad I did! 👌🏽 You dropped some nice jewels. Made me realize how I'm all 4 mistakes. Lol. Geez I need an upgrade.
Made it to the end! We can always pick up a tip here and there. Besides I like hearing someone who is educated!
I’m a long time bass head (just turned 50), but still watch your videos. My first system was 2 Stillwater Designs (Kicker) 10’s on a Punch 45 (Rockford Fosgate) behind the seat of an s-10. My last was 4 X v.3 18’s (no wall) on an SFB 8k @1ohm, lots of highs and mids on 3k, 320 alt, 4 AGM’s, and 2/0 in a Tahoe.
I watch all your video's till the end you have helped me fix a lot of different problem's I've had with my setup
Made it to the end ; ) It's easy to make it to the end when your videos are so informative and interesting. Thanks man!
I made it to the end thank you very much I'm taking it in and having it tuned but now I know how to ask for what needs to be done because I know they have the right tools but I want to make sure I have the right language so they do me right thank you man you rock
11:35 I have watched all your videos to the end. I have learned so much by watching your videos. Thank you very much for your time that you put into your content!
Hey Mark, I really learned a lot from your videos. I am attempting to build my dream audio system. This is my first time without any real prior knowledge. I'm planning to make the system simple, clean, and with sufficient power to accomplish the objective, which is to enjoy a real nice acoustic blend from the tweeters, mid ranges, and bass speakers. Because of my lack of knowledge in this area, everything, all your videos, other videos, and equipment research are very important. You are doing a great job!!! Thanks to you, your team, and your sponsors for the knowledge.
have you done the big 3 upgrade yet
Soooo much knowledge on this channel. Great job my man
I personally watch all your vids till the end!! Would love to see an episode on altinators and even multiple altinators!! Thanks for all the sweet vids man!!
+Ben & Katherine Murphy let's do it, thanks for the input and watching!
If you/re only powering one bass speaker hooked up to a stereo amp does it matter if you hook it up backwards to the left channel for bass? I have someone on youtube arguing with me over it. He said the speaker doesn't care which way you wire it because there's only one and not a 2 way or 3 way.
defiantly not enough vids on the net for the electrics from start to finish and small (e.g second battery) to big (e.g. 4 300amp altinatiors) and how to wire them all to 14volt 15volt 16volt.. p.s thanks for all your help so far tho. your very comprehensive and not boring or gimiky
Find out the stock amps your alternator puts out multiply that by 13.8 to be fair or 14.4 assuming you have a very strong charging system, example i have a 160 amp alternator and ill multiply that by 13.8 that equals 2,208 watts factor in your battery and head lights need most of that power im running an 800 watt RMS system on that 2,208 watts with no issues leaving my cars electronics with 1408 watts for the battery headlights and everything else, you can use this calculation to find out if you need a larger alternator or multiple but those usually require longer belts and custom brackets so avoid that unless you really need it, also factor in what size charging wire comes off your alternator and goes to your battery, if you have a 4 ga sound system drawing more than your stock 8ga charging wire can put back into the battery your going to have issues, a big 3 upgrade makes such a big difference because it allows the car to feed the battery more power and ground the alternator better, also fuse size can choke the ammount of power your amp gets my amp has 2 x 40 amp fuses and wants a 100 amp inline power fuse so keep that in mind as well, also if your headlights dimming bothers you change the bulbs out to leds that will fix the dimming problem making you think your car doesnt have enough power for the sub system your running
Damn it now I have to check to see if my subs are correct from factory. I was trying to figure out way am I not getting much bass even though everything is hooked up right. THANK YOU FOR THE HEADS UP!!
Super informative! This is probably one of the best videos I've seen on car audio. You can tell this guy REALLY knows his stuff!
You sir are a legend.
Many thanks for all your advice and tutorials.
I always end a viewing with all questions awnserd.
Cheers bro👊
Made it all the way to the end of your video lol
Most of your videos are very helpful to my intended purpose on my build.
Awesome! I'm curious who else will get to that point, I appreciate you watching. Glad these vids help the build
Another good way to test the polarity of your speakers if they are labeled wrong is to take something like a 9v battery and see where the + and - of the battery is when the speaker moves and stays up.
yep..
Man I have loved all of your videos. They’re incredibly informative. I’m a research guy and I always like to know as much as possible about something before I spend money on it. You help me with that quite a bit.
Every time I start working on my stereo I always go back to your videos just to make sure I do It right. Love your videos!
Good to hear! Thanks for tuning in and happy to help
Awesome vid and almost 200k subs! Congrats, keep them coming
What was you at when you commented this? I see you got some subs yourself
I have 2 car subs speakers 1500 hundered wats they have 2 sets of 1highs and 1 set lows on the speakers can I hook up 1 to the highs and 1 to the lows on the same speakers and run with that it won't hurt anything
You are a wise man and offer good advice. Keep up the good work!
I absolutely love your videos. I've been out of car audio for a while and these have actually motivated me to build/install a custom system in my 17 f250
Made it through the whole video. Very Insightful. Thanks man!
Thank you. After this video. Reverse polarity. Sounds so much better. Am dropping bass like my name is Gravity.
I watch to the end. your welcome. for me watch. And a thumbs up for you my good man. Prost
.I really enjoy your videos and have learned different technique to my system. And as a side note I to watch from beginning to end each video to make sure I understand fully what your explaining. When I build or install I read the instruction manual First, before emptying the equipment.
Hey! Thanks for this video, I’ve always wondered how my installs pan up to a professional in the car audio game. I have a pro audio background and live sound install background so these sorts of videos really intrigue me. Thanks
Good stuff ✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾
I made it to the end! Very informative.
You are a true audio genius, I've seen a few of your videos and you are very correct. I'm 36 but when I was a teen I had good boom in my car, I had two tens sealed box, affinity speakers, I installed two amps cause for each speaker cause I couldn't find the right mono block, I eventually did but before that one of the amps kept blowing a fuse and than it finally went up in smoke, that's when I got the mono block and my clarity changed and base never distorted. But I've seen other dudes with bad setups and it made feel smarter cause mine was right and they were doing silly things like what you said on your video about adding other subs from a buddy. To end it you truly know what your talking about and I would absolutely share these videos
I'm a new be but watching and listening to the words of wisdom from you helped me big time .I am hooked on this and thank you for doing what you do and I have watched your videos to the very end every time and will continue to do so most importantly. Your videos have brought me closer to my little brothers and now we talk about car stereo system every day .I have a boat that I want to be heard from space I already have leds so I can be seen from space. I wish you could help me with the system so that could be my number best thing for myself and this helps me with my depression and has helped me deal with drugs that I have been battling my whole life. I'm 53 and drugs use is a problem because of my father taking his life in 1981. Cocaine is the problem and no matter what or who go drugs are everywhere. Music has always made me feel. And the last couple years. Have been hell .the videos you post have given me back some purpose in my life. Drugs have taken everything that made me happy away once I got the stereo fix from your videos. Life is different. It has even made me clean my life. My home. My car and do on thank you so much .. only wish one thing. Please help me with my boat this spring. Unfortunately I live in boring bay City Michigan. Blocks from the Saginaw river. In NA I learned this what are you gonna do when drugs don't work anymore .... Your words and wisdom. Is better then any drug I have ever done. That's the truth. Thanks and I sure hope you read my story. I would feel again I don't have feelings anymore .the only thing I do love is water. And u don't want to lose that. Like everything else in my life
I am 46 now, have installed audio systems since 17.
These videos are great. Not only learning more they remind me of things I have forgotten
Ryan . so my Pioneer touch screen deck will not let me turn on the rear speaker output or subwoofer output to the amp ( 1 channel alpine 600 watt) but the inside speakers front and rear are all putting out . and the amp is on but no sound is coming out . it was. playing fine. Then the box started shorting out like it didnt have a good connection . so I checked all the wiring and it came back on but not right away . worked for a day . hasn't said shit since . ( running 2 12 alpine s series dual voice coil subs. What the hell , I already replaced the rcas
@@007outtacontrol I will get back to you, thinking bad, dirty ground
@@007outtacontrol I have same thing, probably older though. In my Silverado
My stereo wiring harness was bad, bought new one on ebay I believe for 10 bucks, fixed the issue. Pull your deck turn on stereo and wiggle the wires coming from HU. May be your problem
I like that you focus on economic, Because as we all know, students can't afford those extra items just to make the sound "closer" to "perfect"
Very informative.. There's something so gratifying about watching someone in their craft.
Made it to the end. I appreciate all the knowledge. Helps me a lot. Much Appreciated. Have a good one bud.
Can you do a video on speaker wire...the best brands, differences, and type of gauge necessary.
Michael Aranda people say 16-12 ga for speakers is plenty big and for subs 12-8 ga some people say 10 some people say 8 it really deoends on the power handling capabilities of your subwoofers if your subs are 500 watts or more go with 8 gauge, as for wire brand it doesnt really matter just look for more strands of copper wire and less insulation, some brands claim to be 8 ga and in size they are 8 ga but the actual wire is only 10 ga because the insulation is so thick, for power wires i used sky high car audio with copper crimp on ring terminals and im very pleased and i ran 8 ga to my subs currently 400 watts rms but im going to he doubling that so im ready for my next install
As for car amps 500 watts and less and you can get away with 8 gauge 500-1500 watts 4 gauge 1500-2500 watts 2 gauge and 2500-4500 watts 0 gauge and if more run additional runs of the same size wire to a terminal block
LOL 8g for 500watts lol. OK lets look at that statement. 500watts at a 1ohm load is 22v 22amps you only need 12g wire if that wire is less than 8' and 14g if its less than 6'
James 577864 Lol what kind of battery and alternator do you have to get 22v
remi briere the output of an amplifier is an AC sin wave. Read up on ohms law and you will know how i got those numbers
I watched to the end, cheers mate!
Outstanding presentation Mark ! Precise and easy to understand. Thank you.😎
Love all your videos. They are definitely helping me with my system upgrade
CAF Dust cap on that sub huh? Pretty cool my man.
And I always watch the whole video. I've seen most of them too. Can't really have too much knowledge.
Bro your polarity topic helped me.
Thanks
Awesome info, Mark! Thanks for all of the information in your videos!👍
I watch to the end on every episode I watch. Very informative and detailed. Figure if I keep watching some of this stuff will get through and stay in my brain. Ive worked in the pro AV world for almost 10 years. All of it mostly in SoCal, Orange county. Car audio is certainly another world to me. Although It does give me more of a head start as a beginner and I know specific details about wiring that many beginners may have to learn from doing themselves to find out.
I made it to the end!
Please do a video on speaker power and watts. People go around the internet with 20,000 watt audio in their car. And I come from a professional audio background in theater and concert. and know for almost certain fact that this is not possible in a car running off 12 volts DC, and maybe 250 amps if they really went all out on their alternator. I don't think that most people realize that a normal auditorium system runs off of maybe 600 watts. And most concert systems use maybe 5000. Full on ampitheaters use at most 40,000 and that's to broadcast deafening audio to 15,000 people. And these settings practically need their own transformer stations to do it. Not to mention entire rooms of professional grade amplifiers to accomplish this. Even auditorium systems that run on up to 5000 watts typically run off of 6, 50 amp circuits. And systems larger than that typically get into three phase or parallell three phase current to feed all this amplification. That adds to 416 volts. And yes I know that is alternating and not direct. But there is a disconnect here. I cannot see how a car can legitamately power audio past around 5000 watts rms. The math just doesn't seem to check out. And if these systems are actually running true 20,000 watts, why aren't these people having blood come out their ears? As 20,000 watts can deafen you from 100 yards. And provide bass to rattle your bones from even further. Hell back in school I made panels fall from the ceiling in an auditorium running 14 inch subs at 2000 watts at 4 ohms. But if I go out and buy 2000 watt subs for my car running at 4 ohms each it barely compares. Where is the disconnect?
Not to mention if I tell any audio engineers I have 4800 watt subs in my car they laugh. Because if I ran 4800 watts in a couple JBL M Pro's in my car, I would probably break a window. Not to mention go completely deaf.
If you actually read all this I'm impressed because this seems to be an avoided topic between these two professional audio worlds. And I have yet to find someone that will actually explain it.
My band ran 2 1500w bass bins, 1 1200w bass guitar amp head, 2 750w and 2 550w speakers = 6800w on a 30 amp circuit in our jam shack... to be fair, we never turned it up all the way... I got to about half volume on my bass before it felt like my head was going to explode, and the approximately 20x16' building was going to fall down
those 20,000w cars have 8 batterrys
thats 2000a amps 14.4v if the cars running
28,800 watts?
I don't know the answer but this whole thread is making my ears bleed, I could just hear and feel the heavy distorted BASS pounding in my head just reading these comments lol
There are so many factors involved I am not sure where to start. For one, home/concert audio uses different class amplifiers most of the time which usually create less total harmonic distortion than car amps. Car manufacturers often lie about their total RMS wattage and list the max output resulting in an amplifier being marketed as 2000 watts, but actually putting out 200. In that case comparing a true 1000 watt concert amp to a 1000 watt car amp is apples and oranges. The next factor to consider is the amount of space concert and home audio has to work with compared to car audio. Concert and theater setups often run multiple 18-21" woofers in huge enclosures with thousands of watts running through them. Nothing can substitute surface area, so there is no way a couple woofers stuffed in a car can compete with that no matter how much power you run through them. One 21 inch woofer would require an entire averaged sized car to make the most efficient enclosure for it. No speaker on earth can handle 20k RMS. Think about the implications of that for a minute. Speakers split the load, meaning 10 concert speakers running on 10k watts would have 1000 watts RMS running through each of them. Now please explain to me how a full 20k watts is going to be run efficiently in a car given the limited space. Can you fit 20 woofers in a car capable of handling 1kw RMS each? I don't think so. The bottom line is car audio guys running that amount of power are wasting at least 80% of it. It's all for show buddy. Anything over 2kw in a car is an absolute waste IMO. Anyone who thinks they need more than that doesn't know how to install properly.
Well that's always the challenge isn't it? Sensitive speakers can't handle as much power, but work great when you run multiple speakers because they can split the load evenly. That is why car audio will always be at a complete disadvantage. Running 20kw through two speakers will never match 20kw run through 20 highly sensitive speakers of the same size that can handle 1kw RMS each. 20KW is a total waste in a car. Speakers capable of handling that amount of power are ridiculously inefficient. It's like comparing 2 people who can clap loud to 20 people who can clap loud. Which will be louder and cleaner if all of the claps are in perfect sync? We are talking about 10 times the surface area!
Thanks for the video. I have been doing my own home built systems since the 80s. Never professionally just for myself and family and friends. Just built my first sundown system for me new f150. Thanks for the video again. And yes. I watched till the end. 😊
I make it to the end of every one of your videos and I have found all of your information useful .
Thank you 🙏🏻
I watch them two and three times myself just soak it in my head
I need you to install my stuff from now on lol
I make it to the end everytime, your very informative and explain all aspects of car audio very a well....thank you
Thank you! very informative and i did watch till the end LoL!! Very clear and well explained.
When I was 16 (just turned 39) I hooked up my first sound system just some cheap junk I bought from a friend but I used some old computer cable for my power and ground lmao it was from my high school left over from a renovation! It worked but barely!!😂😂
That's dope asf
Doing my own system, so trying to get all info I can
Built a box from your website…. It works really well thank you
Watched the whole thing...excellent coverage of good bass considerations. Thanks.
I make it to the end of every video because I'm always tryna squeeze out a few more db
thanks for making this video, liked it a lot, good info!
yes indeed! knowledge is power. sometimes it is painful to listen to everything but the knowledge gained when we do enables us to do better.
All good advice, this guy clearly knows what he is talking about. I've been running sound systems for 19 years.
Moar tips for Moar bass:
If you are doing a vented enclosure, make sure your sub is meant for it, same for sealed. Some subs can do both fine. I use the Efficiency Bandwidth Product:
EBP= Fs/Qes
If EBP =:
0-50, sub best suited for sealed enclosure,
50-90, could be used for both.
90-200, better go ported.
Some bass amplifiers also have a "slope" adjustment for the roll-off of the bass at the crossover point between the sub and the mids. The type of enclosure will dictate slope after F3, (Low end). Make sure that is set right for your install. I.E., if your sub is in the trunk, you might want a not-so-steep slope (6db or 12db) to blend in better with your mids up front, since the back seat basicly adds an acoustic order. Steeper slope if the sub is right behind you, and you feel that the bass seems muddy around an octave or two within the crossover point. I think my old JL bass amp had selection for 6db, 12db, and 18db slope.
If your sub is ported, don't put the port side right up against a car panel.
Yeah see a ton of builds that port right into the boot lid, don't see much point as bass only reflects off solid concrete walls, not boot lids like some installers say. That just turns the lid into some sort of inefficient passive radiator, or just outright blocks it. I prefer porting up or forward, though others are fine if there's at least a 1' gap.
Apollo Smile, sealed box.
Got 2 mtx terminators but i ordered 2 pioneer tsw311d4 subs dvc 4 ohm subs 400 w rms 1400 max, gonna be running it off a pioneer gm-8601 amp 800 watts rm 1600 max and verified on amp dyno and exceeded the watt rating and i lucked out because my pioneers say in the manaual they want the same box size as my mtx terminators so i lucked out
Ummm, since when does the Fs determine the kind of box required? The Fs is the Free Air frequency best played at, usually for break-in
And here I am running a pair of 12" 18Hz Fs, .2 Qts subs not only unported, I'm running them happily in a very leaky "Infinite Baffle".
EBP or Qts guidelines are helpful to give an idea of which direction too look in first, simulation + testing is the only recipe to great results. Nowadays (loose term, I'm using a 2005 Clarion HX-D2 as my DSP) signal processing power also makes things a lot more flexible.
I could achieve similar results more power efficiently by running a single one of them in a slot ported box, and I did that for a while... But a car isn't a static silent rectangular 200+sq.ft. living room, going "IB" allowed for aesthetically and acoustically better installation while saving space and a little weight.
for cheep way to check speaker polarity i use "old" 9v battery.
the best way xD
Krkan D. Actually, a 1.5V battery works fine, and is a bit safer. And for those unfamiliar with this technique, you're connecting the positive battery post to the positive speaker terminal, and negative to negative. If the speaker cone moves out, polarity is verified correct. Be sure to only "tap" or connect very briefly, thiugh, or speaker damage could occur.
ashemoski sure, 1,5v works, but 9v contact is in top. much easier to handle. :)
+ashemoski speaker damage is highly likely especially with sensative tweeters. This method should be avoided.
if neg and pos is right. pushes speaker outward.
i sit through all your videos that tend to my needs
Dude that's the best video I seen on bass ever.. thanks it's good to know someone else knows how to do this stuff.. looking for ideas for my 06 Toyota tundra SR5 double cab
You may not want to totally seal a sealed enclosure. Hot and cold cycles inside a trunk can cause significant pressure differences inside and outside the box. I drill a 1/16 hole on the bottom where it contacts the carpet to minimize any noise and let the pressure equalize. Your foam surround will thank you.
i don't have space for even a shallow box that you can buy at a store, or the money to buy the wood to build my own, so i just have a face of a box and a little bracing to hold it in place, but for the most part I have an open box, but I'm worried that the lack of restriction of a vaccum will cause my coil to dislocate, any tips
@oleyella85 do the ones built for free air sound any better than the enclosed subs or any smoother
Another way to prevent box flex is after building your box with 3/4" material, build another box around it with 1/2" or 3/4" material. Even the front that the subwoofer is mounted to. The depth of your port makes more air but also more boomy bass.
I made it all the way through thank you for the good advice and information
I do listen to the end of the videos, this was very important knowledge.
I watch every video all the way to the end.
Is this the Fab-Kitchen I keep hearing about?
Very good, very professional and extremely informative. In my time as an installer I had to learn through trial and error (we didn't have TH-cam).
Good stuff!..... Every little bit of solid information helps!! Thanks Mark.
Great video! Very good, now I'll go set my audio player. It has DSP but I didn't know how to set the delays for all speakers. It's just trial and error or a way to find out before?
Firstly depends on what module you have purchased. Consider this, it's just that you have to monitor at what time the sine waves of the sub hit your preferred spot in the car and have the dsp 'delay' the signal to the side speakers so that the waves add up and it becomes an experience truly. It basically is like correcting audio/video sync on VLC except it's just more fancy scientific terms to it. A place to begin with by your ear is to find one specific drop/beat/moment that involves the deeper and mid bass.
What radio do you have?
OK, I'll take my time and try to figure it out by setting it. It seems it's a thing that you should try, no "special formula" though. I have an Alpine 9812RB as HU. :)
Looking up the head unit, it's much like the other higher end Alpine decks from the period. The manual has lots of good information that might help, if you have not read it yet. The time alignment features are for single point source speakers, like a coaxial speaker. If you have speakers that are separate mid and tweeter and they are placed further apart, the effect will not be as dramatic in its implementation (it will be nearly impossible to get it right, basically.) Check out the manual and if you have any other questions about audio, look up Inexpensive Car Audio: Sound Quality on Facebook. It's a page that I started but we are fortunate enough to have some very intelligent people there, that love to help. Side note: I love the radio, I have an older Alpine too (older than yours.)
I use a "D" Battery to check polarity. Failsafe...... I check all drivers The cone should push outward when touching the + terminal on the battery.
+5argeTech /\ the problem is this only identifies the terminals are correct, your source may still have incorrect labels (yes even the car manufacturers make mistakes) with the tool you can also run a CD it comes with and check all the speakers once they are all wired
CarAudioFabrication I Hear you. I'm a speaker builder from back in the day. That was an easy way to confirm all speakers are phased properly using a simple method without any equipment. Simple and effective. My sources were reference tube amps, and Hi-end soild state Amps. Fisher, Pilot, Harmon-Kardon, Onkyo. The CD Audio reference disk is one I own just for that purpose. I also do a lot of surround sound hookups. Just adding my 2 cents.. Peace☺✌👍👍
What car manufacturer has a car with incorrectly labled wire
@@All2Skitzd Hyundai and kia
Love it as usual. And I always watch to the end!
Watched until the end. Getting ready to watch again