HD Laserdisc - HD in ‘93 (Part 2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
- Part two of a two-part video about High Definition Laserdisc.
Part one can be found here: • HD Laserdisc - HD in ‘...
In this video you can see HiVision in action and do some comparisons against standard Laserdisc and Blu-ray
LINKS
As requested in the comments to part one - a "Movies on A Disc"? T-Shirt is now available from my overpriced merchandise store teespring.com/stores/techmoan...
My Video about D-Theater - the 2002 HD on VHS format
• Remember when HD Movie...
A good summary of MUSE
ura.caldc.com/stannum/hivision...
Wikipedia Article on MUSE
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multipl...
Comb Filter Tests (Featuring the X9)
notonbluray.com/blog/comb-tb-t...
Some Reviews of MUSE Laserdiscs
www.cinedrome.ch/hometheater/h...
Popular Science May 1991 on Japanese HDTV
(Page 106)
books.google.co.uk/books?id=z...
NHK book on Hi-Vision
(first 21 pages available as a preview)
books.google.co.uk/books?id=o...
Popular Science November 1991 on Digital HDTV
(Page 103)
books.google.co.uk/books?id=s...
Laserdisc Database - List of MUSE titles
www.lddb.com/list.php?format=...
Laserdisc U.K. Website 1994 Write-up on Hi-Vision LD
www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/las...
I made a video about my experiences with buying a laserdisc player in 2015 - you can see that here • 2015 - Time to buy my ...
Technology Connections has also done a series of videos about Laserdisc - here’s the playlist. • The Story of Laserdisc
It was only after he mentioned MUSE in the last video that I decided I should pull my finger out and finally try to get these videos made.
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ThatSFXGuy - • Six Million Dollar man... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I've lived in Japan for 15 years and now I understand why Japanese always call HD "High Vision".
Do you understand why they named MUSE based on all English words when they have their own glorious proprietary language to play with? Why shy away from awesome Japanese?
@@nthgth Exactly the same reason you just gave, but reversed. English is cool to them. Also Japanese doesn't use an alphabet and as such makes acronyms a bit difficult.
@@nthgth because loan words sound cool
@@wile123456 makes sense
@@nthgth Japan post ww2 has pretty heavy American influences
I remember buying my first DVD movie back in 2000 and family members being super impressed by the quality, even though it was "only" 480p.
I actually got one in 97-98, I think the original Austin Powers and Deep Impact were the first films I bought
As always, a ludicrously excellent set of vids ! I ended up thinking to myself, how would that Save The Watch Tower scene be like side by side with Normal LaserDisc and a DVD ....
Maybe I'm alone in this but I still think DVD looks fine. Hell, I still watch VHS at times. That or I stream...
Something a lot of people do not consider, is pixel density of the device you play it on plays a huge part in how good a video looks. 480p on a 480p screen looks great. It looks like blurry garbage however on a 1080p monitor.
A reason for that is that almot all media had bad quality, air signal channels, VHS even some consoles had less ress than real 480p until N64 and dreamcast came out and some used 480i, so when DVD came out they gave you the "real" 480p experience
5:00 "A touch oversaturated"
I would rather have oversaturated than undersaturated. The regular Laserdisc looks like RAW files that haven't gone through color correction.
@DoctorWeeTodd Well he did say it was an older Back to the Future LD from like 86 or something but Yeah the MUSE/Hi-Vision Color Pops On!?!or Off!?! The Screen! Also Crisper, Smoother and Cleaner Picture if a bit “OverSaturated”. Would Prefer to Look at that! For 93/94 that is Quite an Achievement and Almost 1080i!
Yeah it looks like S-Log.
Thanks for persisting down the rabbit hole that was laserdisc. Don't worry, we'll invent more rabbit holes for you to spelunk. 8k blu-ray discs, anyone?
@@fluxoff Hello, I've read that four-k has higher 'relative to distance' resolution that Conde-Naste magazines; would you agree that it's a relevant comparison?
@@electrictroy2010 5 years is an eternity in tech.
I remember watching a laserdisc movie in 1996 on a regular crt tv , I remember I was blown away by the quality , It was fascinating seeing that at the time
@Joe S Donkey Kong Country was amazing
It still holds up
@Joe S facts
in 1995 a bar had a laserdisc jukebox..... amazing.... you could watch the video on several screen in the bar and the audio through the speakers while drinking a beer or eating a sandwich ))))
@@toffonardi7037 Pretty neat for 95'
1) There are loads of links in the video description text box
2) Please don't get hung up over the machine breaking at the end - I only mentioned this to explain why there weren't more tests.
For example one thing I'd have liked to compare against the Hi-Vision disc would be my Squeeze (Anamorphic) laserdisc of Cliffhanger because Squeeze was the best that a standard LD could look.
If I'd managed to get all my tests done before it broke down, I'd never have needed to mention its demise..that's all just behind the scenes stuff. Quite often these old things I demo only work for a short period of time - just long enough to make the video about them. I will be getting my repair chap to take another look at the machine in a few weeks and *if* he can get it working again, I may return to do more tests and demos in a future video - but don't hold your breath on that - there's a heck of a lot of stuff in that machine that could fail and not all spare parts will be available after all this time..
However rather than concentrating on the negatives - focus on the positives. We got to see these Japan-only HD Videodiscs from almost 25 years ago in action. That's what I take away from this whole experience. A couple of weeks ago this was something I'd never seen working, but now I have and that experience can't be taken away.
Techmoan I wonder if the caps are having issue, if indeed the power supply is the issue on the second go around or perhaps the motor grease has stiffened over time.
Please don't be concerned about the machine. It is what it is.
At the end - we have these two videos. That's all I set out to do.
The technically minded are concerned about machines in the same way classical surgeons were concerned about the body. If it's unfixable, perhaps you can track someone down in the UK who does in depth electronics teardowns, eg Big Clive or Mikeselectricstuff, you might get an interesting collab out of it too. At the very least our mechanical bloodlust would be sated :^)
Techmoan
Could you ever do a review on the Sony MDS-JB930 QS. Many thanks.
It's such a shame it broke down on you. Luckily you were able to create this wonderful video for us all to enjoy. It would have been nice if you would have been able to use it for yourself afterwards, but as you say, it is what it is. I agree with you with the complicated 90's part. I remember fixing my TV, putting it all together only to open it up again a few weeks later to fix something else. There is just so much electronics in there that it's a miracle it even worked too begin with.
I really enjoyed watching this 2 parter, thank you.
I think, you're actually the first person on TH-cam showing what a Muse-LD Video looked like. Great job!
Ive seen a few uploads before. But this is the first direct capture and not recording off a tv screen.
This man can get to the best stuff..
@@lucasrem good for you.You such a badass
@@lucasrem PCs aren't TV's. Particularly in the 90s.
@@startedtech I think the first hd displays in japan were ctr. I am not sure, most like a guess.
Wow incredible for 1993....almost as good as Blu-ray
Viral Killer it’s so fucking rare to have a verified account comment with 1 like and no replies
To be honest the Back to the Future Blu-ray was controversially bad so it's not a good example of Blu-ray capabilities.
@@evooff what do you mean by controversially bad?
It's great for the time but nowhere near bluray/digital 1080p+. Let alone 4k lol. Its essentially analogue 480p, doubled as far as resolution and more important motion resolution. For certain things on a CRT its good, even a high quality consumer CRT would look good, the CRT motion res and black levels making up for many of the faults. But 1080i-ish is very different overall. Analogue is also, outside of film... Well a whole extra discussion or point lol. But yeah on a phone screen it looks decent for the time but its analogue 1080i no matter how ya slice it. Blow it up on a later CRT that many homes had, with component possibly, the Enhanced Def sets and it would lose much of that comparable quality to even 1080p. Especially digital, it would be no contest.
@@hi_tech_reptiles- You expect the average consumer to know too much.
10 out of 10 for dedication in getting this system shown in this video. Fascinating stuff. Thanks for the video
Well done for getting two videos out despite the machine giving-up on you.
All praise the mighty HDMI
It certainly is a Handy Dandy Media Interface
Converting all my videogames to HDMI,best thing ever
I'd love to see a part 3 for this! The thing about ludicrously expensive ideas like this is that unless someone has the means, nobody will get to enjoy how ludicrous it is. You already have the MUSE equipment, you have someone who can do repairs nearby, and you're probably it's foremost expert now. Plus im sure we all want to hear your opinion about the practical watchability of these discs.
This this this this this and patronize Techmoan.
I could listen to you explain things for hours. Have you considered doing a podcast? I'm sorry people were so rude yesterday about having to split the video into two parts. Split your videos into as many as you want, i'll still be watching them all! Thanks for the great entertainment!
You people are weird
Colin M yeah, how dare people be interested in technology.
We know dude, it's not what I'd buy. But I'm so glad you do such immense research on old tech. It's really bloody interesting.
I didn't really encounter HD video properly until the late 2000's. It's incredible to me that home video of this quality was available to the public (albeit only the public with money to burn) all the way back in 1993!
Thank you for the lengths you go to bring us such fascinating and informative videos! And for preserving and documenting technology from the past for the future :) You're awesome!
I'm really blown away by how good the HiVision looked. I had no idea that level of picture quality was possible anywhere close to that timeframe. Thanks for putting out yet another wonderfully interesting and informative video!
Amazing how this technology didn't take off... Imagine watching this incredibly clear resolution in the mid 90's...
Alot of it was due to price. Laserdisc was never that popular in the US because it was darn expensive.
MUSE LD was an even more expensive form of a technology that didn't take off because it was too expensive for the mass market, so... no, it's not amazing at all that it didn't take off :)
Lots of thanks for uploading this! I've always been fascinated by MUSE LDs but online video samples of them are almost nonexistent. This helps tremendously to show off the quality a MUSE system could produce. An interesting yet tremendously niche technology that we can finally see in action. Thanks again!
Your videos are brilliant. I've been binge-watching them over the last couple of weeks and feel I've learned a lot. Your enthusiasm's great too; you're one of the good guys in life, Mr. Techmoan.
Whilst from the beginning of this series it was difficult to imagine this tech really being useful against modern tech, videos like will go on to be useful from a historical point of view. It’s likely that in another 25-30 years it will be even more difficult to find examples, so good documentation like this might the last actually created.
I'd agree. With the equipment being so expensive and unreliable these days, it's good to have as much captured reference material as possible.
It helps writers and media producers more than anything!
Disks will be rotten by then.
I’ve been watching you for quite a while and just want to say that I really enjoy your high quality production aesthetic. Your videos are some of the best on TH-cam for this reason.
Serious respect for putting so much time and effort into this video. You're really dedicated to your TH-cam craft and I love watching your content.
I'm happy part 2 of this video came out so quick. I also love how Back to the Future is your go to comparison for video quality.
Thank you for your dedication in bringing us the best of old tech. I really appreciate all the work you put into your videos. Always look forward to everything you do. I'm an electronics major, class of '88. This stuff brings back a lot of old memories.
Bravo! You've really raised your already high bar with this series, TM. Absolutely brilliant in every way. I'm awestruck by your ability to dredge up all manner of obscure tech relics and turn them into hugely compelling, professionally produced and presented YT content. Hard to believe you (may) also hold down a day job.
Amazing the progress over a few short decades. Thanks for sharing. Probably my favourite TH-cam channel.
Thank you for all these great videos I love showing my kids old tech. My 14 year old wants to go to college in recording and audio so all this stuff is gold . I've owned a few things you have posted it's really cool seeing that stuff again.
This was so good watching part 1 and then waiting for part 2.
Lots of twists and turns. Loved it.
Totally worth the few thousand pounds!
What a rollercoaster, thank you for going through all of this to bring us as much as you have. I'm still amazed that the modern TV was able to show the HD signal from the decoder, but I suppose it is analogue.
Thanks so much for this video, and your other videos. I’ve learned so much from your channel about obscure formats I had no idea existed. It’s amazing to me to think there was high-definition video available as early as 1993 (though even if I’d known about it then, there’s simply no way I could ever have afforded this laserdisc format at that time).
Oooh! That was fascinating, listening to the MUSE signal. I truly appreciate all the work and effort you put into your content, Mr. Moan.
Keep up the great work!
Iam giving this a 👍👍👍 just for the amount of time and effort and cash went in to making this, for me to chill out while nursing the biggest hangover ever!
Thank you for the immense amount of effort you put into making these videos Mat! Even though they obviously don't get tons of views, all of us that do watch them really love them. They're the best of their kind on TH-cam, as far as I'm concerned. Cheers!
So much quality in this channel. Thank you from Portugal :)
I love this guy. I'm revisiting this video and all of them again because of the quarantine. I really enjoy this content.
Thanks Mr. TECHMOAN
Although I never owned a LD player, it still amazes me how enjoyable the disc format technology can be. To this very day I still own lots of series on standard definition DVD and the quality is still very much appreciated. With the latest trend of streaming, I have found that the "magic" is gone of yesteryears solid engineering.
I'm surprised at how good the quality is of Hi-Vision vs the standard Laserdisc. You can actually read the text in the background and make out the registration on the car that almost runs Marty over. Of course, Blu-Ray is in FullHD then but Hi-Vision looks like 720p in comparison, minus the blurry background.
I'd be curious to see more footage comparison versus VHS or even S-VHS.
I agree Hi-vision rocks
Same, especially when it comes to colours, Hi-vision approached blu-ray quality!
Exactly and it was analog video and blu ray is digi its like vga vs hdmi !
It looks like 720p but it's actually technically closer to 1080i in resolution (interlaced 1035 visible lines). I bet if we had this going on for longer, it could actually get closer to the sharpness we have in current full HD (native, not oversampled from 4K, that is not fair). Also there's the multiple interlacing system that made it blurier, I would guess it's amazingly sharp at stills. Not to mention BD capture through HDMI or straight rip vs analog HD capture is quite a difference too, even for Component video it's on it's edge.
Not quite VGA vs HDMI, considering VGA can show 1080p which is non interlaced without any compression trickery going on.
Well done. I nearly watch every episode you release here on youtube. It is allways interessting and entertaining to see old tech I haven't seen before or your own opinion about old tech. Also I really enjoy to get a look at one of the first Hi-Def movies.
Keep on :)
I really enjoy your videos man.
I could genuinely say I love them.
I do not personally own any of the things you mention in your videos but I remember a lot of them.
your videos make me some kind of nostalgic way and I thank you for this.
I'm glad you got this to work, if only for a brief period of time. I'm sure a home cinema set up with Hi-vision laserdisc and four-channel audio would've blown people's minds back then. Makes me think about how even 4K HDR isn't really that expensive anymore nowadays.
Never knew about this "Hi-Vision Laserdisc ".
Thanks for the information !
Fantastic job on this 2-part Video! Hi-Vision LDs were always fascinating me, but at that price level, of course impossible to get. Thank you for all the work, and looking forward to more of your great content!
thanks for all the hard work you put into this mat, really enjoyed learning about it. fascinating stuff.
Thank you for an interesting and well researched video. I never knew these types of high definition Laserdiscs even existed.
Good stuff, thanks so much for sharing!
It is the most fucking Rare to find a comment made by a verified account with no likes or reply’s and its 2 years old
Not really. Especially when most of my comments are way after the video went live. Most of the super upvoted ones were made right when the video went live before all the viewers showed up :P
EposVox well I have completed my final accomplishment on TH-cam! Get a reply from a verified and popular TH-camr!
Your sacrifice in terms of time and money is greatly appreciated! This was amazing to see.
I appreciate what you went through to make this video happen!
Thank you for your work on this. There are too many obscure pieces of tech or individual near-mythical units out there that will sit unsold forever on eBay at insane prices, or be speculated about endlessly on message boards. It was a real treat to see the video comparisons for BttF. I appreciate your point about the improvements in film-scanning technologies. If it had an input it would be fascinating to see test signals/patterns or footage to find out the true limits of the encoding. But, of course, we have all seen the shortcomings of "born-digital" over-the-air HDTV with low bitrates compared to the 35+ MBps available to commercial Blu-rays.
Consider what I wrote above a general note of appreciation for your work. I only found your channel a month or two ago and I have fallen down the rabbit hole. Great research, editing and video quality make each one damn near definitive.
I miss old times, VHS, DVD movies....It was special to go and rent a movie then watch it..now when everything is available it does not have value. I don't even watch movies anymore. At first I was astonished, woow I can download whatever I want but later I was like...drowning in the sea of everything so I just skydive today and ride.
I have to agree. I watch very few films. I watch more TV series boxsets than anything. I think the saturation of the modern market has killed the enjoyment of it.
It had a certain charm, but I don't feel the same way. I still have to put time aside to watch something, so the thought of picking something out still goes into what I watch for the night. I really don't miss going to Blockbuster to rent a movie I really wanted to see only to find out they are out of copies. Then you either rent something else, sit and wait and hope someone returns it, or go home empty handed.
@@Movie_Gamesthere were so many games I rented back then and more I should have so I never left the rental stores empty handed.
I prefer today
Linus Magnus I’m the same used to love movies now can’t be stuffed with em
Love the old tech you show and explain the devices history and functions keep up the good work ...thanks Doug
the series was a lot more interesting and informative than I thought it would be. Thanks for this!
Hands down one of the best channels in the history of YT.
Techmoan is YT in High definition !
Coleção Nintendo most of the content on TH-cam is
Yes, if your PC, Tablet or phone has a 1080 display it should be an option,
Take a look at the settings panel to the bottom right of the video.
I think it was a statement rather than question))
Captain Araf Mine is 720p
i have 8k!
I find it amazing that people like you dedicate their life to simple things like that. I could never do that. But I love to watch it. Find it fascinating! Great job.
I like many have been waiting for these videos and im glad it was you techmoan to give them to me!
Well no wonder it failed, it says “made in Japan “
What are you talking about? All the best stuff is made in Japan.
weeeeb
Wife it’s a quote from the film
@Tomi Tuominen Buy Asian stuff in general, the Chinese are capable of making high quality stuff too when its not from a sweatshop.
This is heavy.
It's a different story from the "post-war days" to the "modern days" up until the 80s japanese tools, hardware, electronics, cars etc were cheap products it was only later when they had fully recovered from the war that their quality in products returned. If you ask the old folks or boomers they can tell you.
Watched this again as it was so good. Did your guy ever manage to get it working again? Appreciate what you say about the transfer from 25 years ago not being as good as the 2010 one on the bluray - one can only wonder how the LD MUSE technology would look with the latest transfer as its source. All very fascinating stuff to a films on disc enthusiast like myself. 👍
Thank you Sir! I was in Japan (Tokyo) many times in the early 1990s but was too poor to get my hands on this Hi-Vision TV, player and discs! It is really a trip down the memory lane! Nostalgic! Once again thank you for sharing!
I have to say, I really like your format, honesty, in depth reviews og elder technology. About the honesty espesial I will mention the frankness about ideas that did not work out or why even your channel name where chosen. That we get what we get, even when things fail, make your channel so trustworthy. And down to earth.
Best regards Jarl Gaute Vartdal, Norway
9:42 I didn't know that I wanted to hear JDM static until right now.
i was thinking myself i cant believe anyone would actually ask to hear it , some people are nuts! lol
Well, I think i'm crazy cuz i wanna hear it hahahahahahaha, there is something pleasant on this noise ^^
LOL. The best part is he anticipated he'd get asked about it and delivered. I bet that person likes to get freaky with static, in an ASMR kinda way.
I bet it too hahahahahahaha
You're basically hearing the vertical sync pulse occurring 50/60 times a second (so roughly 50/60 Hz square tone with extra harmonics). You aren't hearing much of the actual signal itself (since it'll be 16 MHz and way beyond any sound card recording, let alone hearing.)
Finally! I have been waiting for this for like a couple of days.
Got the notification for this in the car today and was bummed I would have to wait the whole day to watch this. The wait was worth it, though. Great video as always!
Also I just noticed The 8-Bit Guy uploaded a video on the NeXT Station so I’m excited to check that out!
Thanks for the dedication in getting this video out
MUSE sounds like an analog version of MPEG, because MPEG uses the same psychological principles to encode motion. MPEG uses key frames and motion vectors in the digital domain, where MUSE does the same in the analog domain.
Stoney3K
I don't think it works in the way that MPEG uses macroblocks, though?
It looks pretty much like the MUSE system pretty much just spins the disk faster, so four (interlaced) fields get spat out in the same time as a normal two-field frame would, which gives them the higher resolution. (higher overall bandwidth, greater number of lines.)
I haven't read up on the rest yet, but I suspect the decoder then stores the previous fields in a framebuffer, so it can do it's combining algo, and also figure out the motion based on the previous fields.
I've always wanted to capture a MUSE RF signal, to try to decode it in software.
There is a project happening atm which captures the raw RF signal from a Laserdisc player, and was originally meant for getting faithful captures of the BBC "Domesday" disks from the 80s.
The same ADC board might just be fast enough to capture the raw MUSE signal, though.
It might even be possible to decode a Hi-Vision disk on a standard Laserdisc player, assuming it could be forced to spin up the disk.
(Probably wouldn't work at all, though, due to the use of the red laser on the Hi-Vision players.)
Wish I had a Hi-Vision disk and a cheap LD player to mess with. I would even attempt to build a laser sled for reading it (with a DVD red laser pickup), but it's probably not worth all of that effort. lol
That's what I thought at first but apparently MUSE is mostly digital. The first thing the decoder does is pass the signal through an analog to digital converter, then do all the processing. I was quite disappointed when I first found out, heh. There's a diagram of the decoder here www.avsforum.com/forum/114-hdtv-software-media-discussion/980435-things-make-you-go-hmmm-laserdisc-versus-hdm-8.html#post12955801
@@Dani128 If it was mostly digital then it's shame they did not go all the way do digital disc. Looks like a half-one design, or maybe a consequence of maintaining LD reading.
In 1993, I was more concerned with trying to get Hi-Fi (High-Fidelity), stereo SOUND for a "home-theater" experience from a "4-head Hi-Fi VCR"-didn't know what a *pixel* even was!
i've just bought a very cheap laserdisc so i wanted to find out more about this format, and this video was really helpful (i gotta admit, your voice is quite relaxing, sir) cheers!
The most thrilling big budget cliffhanger I've seen in a decade. I am not being ironical. Thank you and bring back analogue!
"available from my overpriced merchandise store" hilarious
One note: the washed out colors of the standard Laserdisc might be because of the S-Video electronics and not the disc itself. I've seen color problems of this nature in S-Video electronics before. Back before digital and component, I had a couple devices where composite gave a better picture than S-Video just because of poor S-Video electronics.
I have a Denon player connected to a cheap composite or svideo to HDMI converter. The stream on the laserdisc is composite and the s-video converter in my player is best avoided. It may be that even though the hi vision player has a good comb filter that it is still not the way to go. In the end it is adding another layer of video processing when a capture device is in play.
Wider color gamut of older NTSC needs to be converted by color management for display on a narrow gamut HDTV set (rec.709/sRGB).
Japan used NTSC (1953) gamut until 2011 (IIRC).
This is why screen captures of old anime titles on websites always look pale: they need to be converted through the correct color profile to match gamut with the monitor.
The standard NTSC Laserdisc would no doubt look colorful and rich on a matching CRT display from that era.
In basic terms, the primary colors (phosphers) used and the contrast/levels curves of the video and the display need to be matched (or the signal corrected to match the display).
The difference in color and contrast for MUSE and standard in this demonstration might be caused by this issue.
If the problem is standards related, it cannot be fixed with contrast and color adjustments. The signal needs to be remapped to a different standard.
Color/contrast makes a superficial improvement but does not correct the underlying problem.
Increasing contrast will destroy image information by clipping dark colors to black and light colours to white, so the picture loses detail.
Increasing color does not change the colors of the primaries to a different set of red/blue/greens. It will make colors more intense, but they will still be the wrong colors.
@@CL-ik1kh I read it somewhere years ago but did not keep a link. I am aware of the contradiction, but considered the source as correct because screen captures from DVDs achieve the expected color and levels when an NTSC(1953) ICC profile is attached to them.
Perhaps it is mistaken, and the color correction seems to work for some other reason (by coincidence).
Just checking Wikipedia article on topic comes up with "Japanese NTSC never changed primaries and whitepoint to SMPTE "C", continuing to use the 1953 NTSC primaries and whitepoint."
However, it might pay to source the paper cited to be sure the summary is not ambiguous within the context of the article.
I should stress I am not an expert in this field, I am a hobbyist (former biologist, not TV engineer) who's put some effort into trying to understand color management, etc, and could well be mistaken.
@@CL-ik1kh I figure there is no harm done attaching ICC profiles to screen captures: looks better, original data remains unchanged, decision can be easily reversed.
But contradictory sources are frustrating.
Unless they are sort of both correct at the same time (hybrid practice). Perhaps Japan started using SMPTE-C with a different black level, but kept the physical displays on NTSC(1953), then mastered the SMPTE-C content with color and levels adjusted to work on that hardware?
Totally enjoy your video on Muse LD. Thank you. As a kid, I have seen the demo of Muse LD at Panasonic showroom in Hong Kong. The video quality was stunning. Really ahead of it's time.
Always a joy watching your videos about obscure media. How do you even make these things sound so interesting? I'm guessing it must be the passion you put into them.
Fantastic video, it’s nice to see an actual video capture from the Muse hi vision, I really want to thank you for doing this, it must’ve been a nightmare to get this video together considering the technical difficulties you encountered and the cost of the Machine as well as the discs for it.
(£400 quid per movie ouch!!!)
I will say this, was the contrast too high on the muse hi vision because of the Elgato capture Device?
I actually use that Device to transfer VHS tapes and I noticed that if you use the default settings to capture video I find the contrast is too high so I go to settings to turn the contrast down to -15, that usually fixes it.
Can’t wait to see what videos you bring out in the future.
I wonder what the picture would have looked like if they had invented the HDMI interface back then. Fascinating to see how many ideas about the future were out there at that time. Cheers.
There isn't much of a difference in the image quality of a 1080i signal over component or HDMI if you're comparing using the same source and have good DACs for the component signal. That said, HDMI usually comes out ahead because a lot of devices with component output don't have particularly good DACs, and you can do 1080p over HDMI, while component is limited to 1080i (as far as the CEA 770.3-D-2008 standard goes).
So sad that it stopped playing for you. As always, interesting and well delivered. Thanks!
Yep, brilliant two parter. Thanks for that Techmoan.
Besides being able to play hi-vision, the X9 is probably the best laserdisc player in the world in terms of playback quality. Best SNR, lowest crosstalk, and best comb filters of any player. I'd say it would be worth fixing it.
I’ve seen other videos where the only issue with a laserdisc player is dried/old lubricant on the pickup mechanism or the same or a belt with the tray mechanism.
According to tests (video essentials laserdisc) done by members of originaltrilogy.com, the Pioneer HLD-X0 has the best picture quality of any laserdisc player. But the X9 appears to be a very similar build (both were sold only in Japan) and should be almost as good.
Definitely worth fixing.
Knightmessenger the X0 has even better build quality (the thing weighs 80 pounds!). You can barely hear the disc spinning with all the layers of metal shielding it has. Everything about it softly speaks to no-compromise design.
It’s slightly older than the X9, so it doesn’t have as advanced of a comb filter, but arguably looks smoother and less digitally processed.
I really wish mine worked... it was half destroyed when I got it, but I got it working for a while. Even in rough condition, it far surpassed every other player I’ve seen (far too many to be considered “healthy”)
Junk
I've always been curious about this format, I could have sworn that I read somewhere awhile back about a bootleg market for HD laser discs in China, but could be wrong. I have to say that the format actually holds up fairly well against Blu-Ray, especially when you consider how old the tech is.
G'day, Techmoan! Well done! That was smashingly good!! "The format is HD and Box Sets are so cool..." (seeing Hi-Vision in action, and doing some comparisons against standard Laserdisc, and Blu-ray) Fabulous job!! By the way, I will agree! Get your "Hi-Vision Laserdisc" repaired. Thank you very much!
Cheers! 😊✌🏼📀❤️
As foolishly expensive pointless exercises go yours are the best filmed and edited sir! Please don’t stop, the cliffhanger on this one between episodes 1 and 2 was most exciting.
I did spot on the first half I see some bulged caps on the other boards on the player
Bullet Media Good eye! This would probably be a very good culprit for the P5 error.
The reason why the picture appears washed out is because you dont have the d-ext mode enabled. What this does is it sets the proper ire level for ntsc and ntsc-j discs. So if you are watching an ntsc disc on this japanese player, it will look washed out because it defaults to the japanese black levels. This is only corrected by enabling the d-ext feature.
The problem with the x9 is that you need the remote to access it as it does not have a button for it on the chassis. Your problem is you have the wrong remote! The remote you have is a CU-CLD108 which was designed for the Pioneer CLD-HF9G. The correct remote for this machine is a CU-HLD003 which has the hi-vision logo in the top right hand corner, whereas the remote you currently have only says laserdisc. They are the same design though, however unless im extremely mistaken, the HF9G does not have this feautre on the remote, therefore you would be unable to access it and take true advantage of this machine.
Having said all that, most modern tvs have built in black correction so it wouldnt be too big a deal to get the tv properly calibrated for ntsc discs.
But I suppose it doesnt matter now considering the machine stopped working. Hopefully you can get it repaired as it is a beauty!
NTSC-J used a 0 IRE black level, which is the same as PAL, so I'd expect a European capture device to have no problem with that. The bigger problem is that NTSC-J uses a white point of 9300K vs 6500K for the rest of the world (both NTSC and PAL), something the capture device wouldn't be able to detect.
One must remember that the NTSC chroma bandwidth was typically less than with PAL, so chroma levels were lower to keep chroma noise levels from being noticeable. This was done on purpose. MUSE allowed more saturation (too much in this case) than the first color standard did.
Thank you SOOOO much for that glimpse into a lost HD format from the 90's that I would never be able to afford to experience except thru here on the internet. It was great and extremely thorough for the time allotted before your HD Laserdisc player gave up on you. I understand you not wanting to dump who know how much more into that device before getting it fixed if it is fixable at all. It's a shame that a service manual that could tell you what P5 error code actually meant but it probably wouldn't help anyways.
Anyways, thanks again! I could never express enough how much your channel (as well as a few others) has influenced my thoughts on tech!
I really enjoy the explanation and travel through time to see this tech being used again. Thank You!
Also the narrative and the voice of Your video are Great, it sounded like the Narrative from Discovery Channel How it's Made...
Might just need the laser cleaning - worth a try.
mordokch that was my thought too...or readjusted too.
It might be the grease for the laser sled has gotten too stiff. This may not be that complicated a repair.
Yeah, i would say that it is something related to the laser. Knowing that the other machine has the same p5 error when trying to read a disc and not getting the format right, maybe the silver one has a weak or uncalibrated optical unit.
I bought an audio setup for $24 that retailed for a few thousand, and it just needed a good cleaning and a new cable, so, it's totally reasonable that this just needs a good go with the Lysol.
One of the odder things I've read about is the "Hi-Vision" PC Engine successor which was only demonstrated back in 1993(4?). A multi-player bomberman was the highlight, demonstrated on some tradeshow. They cut the amount of hardware before releasing, turning it into a real turkey of a system that nobody bought - basically just a CD-ROM, jpeg-decoder and a powerful blitter. The problem was that the system was supposed to have several blitters. So in the end it was suitable only for terrible FMV games, and it was crushed by the competiton.
Edit: Shown in 1993 as HI-Ten Bomberman. This lead to project tetsuin which ended up as PC-FX.
Sweet vids, great job (great depth), I'm surprised you keep finding new old formats. More power to your tenacious elbow.
Bravo! Really great episode Mat. Especially the hook for part 3.
>"im not going to look at hi vision laserdisc"
>Makes hivision laserdisc video
My rather powerful 2017 27" iMac got exhausted and started huffing and puffing a bit when you talked about the weight of the player.
This two-part video series on the Hi-Vision LD series was absolutely fascinating to me. To think that what we perceive as contemporary tech in the US, and other countries when it comes to HD was already in full swing in Japan when I was just 11 years old in 1991! I've always been marveled by Japanese ingenuity by their creative capabilities and this Hi-Vision format just continues to validate how deft Japanese engineering is with everything ahead of its time; hell, they're now broadcasting 8K video signals in their country! I look forward to more of your insightful videos Techmoan as they've both educated and excited me in discovering all this phenomenal tech that existed back when I was a kid and as an adult like HD VHS! You have to love Sony as they pride themselves in being the pioneers with a repertoire of both successful and defunct tech like the Minidisc format. I still have my Minidisc player in my 2000 Honda Civic; it still works and I love using it!
fascinating. the effort you put into this is impressive.
The LD reminds me of how washed out VHS used to be also, I had almost forgotten about it. It wasn't jus the resolution that was lower, it was the overall quality and image that was worse off as well.
Obviously don't sell it - ever.
It's a beautiful piece of equitment working or not.
Wow thanks for going through all the trouble and expense to show us ingrates this fascinating piece of equipment.
Thanks for going through this expensive journey with us Mat!
The reason that the image looks oversaturated and dark is because of broadcast standards being different between where it was shot, the intended market, and where you are. If you were to run it through a few correctors in your preferred video editor and re-render it as-is, it'd look completely normal. This is why a lot of anime looks pastel to North American markets and why UK television that was not broadcast corrected on the spot looked very grey in the same vein to us. Meanwhile my friend just arrived in Lagos. Nigeria, and went to watch a bunch of her favourite anime, and found it to be RIDICULOUSLY dark on the screen because of different standards between Nigeria and England's players and televisions. This has been somewhat fixed by the fact that digital media doesn't have much of a standard, however, this is also the case if you were to take a video on a cell phone in one region and send it to another. The compression in some countries means that the video you get has a lot of lost resolution - easy way to test this is Snapchat, which sends back pixellated video from my friends abroad and clear video from my friends near me.
somehow anime looks choppy when you run with 60hz when i run with 72hz (24p/23.976p) it looks smoother
@@el-danihasbiarta1200 Yeah. Most animation is done at 24fps or slower. Especially if it is hand drawn. Easier to do.
Blown away by hivision. Compared to bluray it really isn't that much worse. Off Course you could say there is a huge difference, but what would happen if you would play this for your friends. Would they notice it? I bet rich people with their own theater rooms had this way back.
Am I the only one who wants to see back to the future now?
if your in the UK its on Film 4 at this moment
Ha, thanks. I'm from the Netherlands.
I think the muse format really could hold up to a blu ray. The issue is the transfers of the past are just complete garbage compared to what we have now.
Excellent video my friend, I appreciate all the work that goes into your posts especially this one. So much work for less than a sitcom showing allotment of time. My new saying when something breaks around the house P5 error LoL 😎
Wow that player looks so impressive! Thank you so much for sharing this with us.
I’d be willing to bet it just needs to be recapped. The capacitors in the replacement PSU were just as old, the only reason they lasted any longer at all was because they hadn’t yet been used. (The aging is largely independent of use.) If i were nearby I’d offer to do it.
The other thing that’s possible is that the laser has weakened, in which case there’s a trim pot in there somewhere. But I wouldn’t touch that until ruling out capacitor failure by full recapping.