5:10 Given that the police chief is just an avatar of the Sybil system, how do we know that the leaders of either societal sectors are not also avatars of Sybil and thus the decisions of these structures are also decisions of sybil? The Sybil system of the show is indeed evil, but the geeater of evil of the show was always that Humanity surrendered to it's judgment, instead of using it as a tool.
It's very interesting to think about what control, or lack of it, real people have within other societal sectors. Sybil very well may have other avatars controlling them, or real people that were chosen for the position, via the aptitude test, who Sybil was confident would make decisions in their favor. Or, it could be regular people who have just come to accept the way society is, and simply continue the evils we see. Season 3 also adds more validity to this theory in terms of government, but heads of "rehab" facility companies, etc, could very well still be part of the first two theories, so it's still up in the air. Personally, I believe its likely manipulated from the aptitude test, given Sybil's love of "model citizens" like Mika in season 2, but that would be very similar to other Sybil avatars being planted in positions of power. That does mean that Sybil is quite evil, but, like what I was discussing and how you ended your comment as well, humanity's complacency was the true evil. Also, if there's some inconsistencies between what I said here and in the video, it's just because I made it some time ago, and may have shifted how I feel after more movies and season 3. Also, thank you for the thoughtful comment! I love to see people thinking about anime, especially if my videos can facilitate that! : D
@@LanoxBrezzy sibyl is definitely evil, even if working toward the greater good (it's not) it's methods are undeniably evil. It exerts control and kills people to get it's way and only acts in self-preservation, it's a side effect of the kind of minds assimilated into it, they don't give a damn about society or the greater good, only themselves and power.
The Sybil system is completely flawed since being stressed out is the only crime in the world. It is even admitted in season 2 that some people are born as "latent-criminals" which seems to have been the circumstance in episode 1 season 1 as well. One day somebody gets scanned and suddenly they are a criminal, he then goes on to rape and nearly murder some girl and the only legal consequence of that is that now she is a criminal too. It would be one thing if these were machines being pulled off an assembly line for being defective, but they aren't, they are people being poorly judged by the standards of machines. As demonstrated by Makashima if you are calm you can commit whatever crime you want, and why wouldn't you be calm? The only thing to fear is fear itself, nothing else is against the law.
Had I not known the system itself was made out of psychopaths I would have agreed that it was not inherently evil. Computers and calculations can make mistakes, hearing them say they want to bring another god into their pantheon makes me feel unsure all the people they dealt with were the people who needed handling or if they gave the best solutions to any of these cases.
That's actually what I love so much about Sybil as a character/entity; we can never be sure what's being done purely or justly, and what's being done selfishly. We know for a fact they disregard their own purposed ideals when trying to integrate Shogo, but is that a special case? There's so much "grey" to the anime
Actually, computers and calculations don't make mistakes‥ however, the very people who both create, use, control, & program computers and calculations do. Computers and calculations are just only tools, not a crutch, let alone a wheelchair, nothing more; that being said, it so appears that Sybil as an entity with its seemly end-goal designed to stip from humanity of everything of them of what makes them human in order to maintain a somewhat a so-appeared pseudo-peace & to have them not to worship Sybil as if it's some sort of god, going out of its way to use people as (disposable) tools made only superficial compromises with humanity only to promote at the end deal they got out of this is just the complacency as well as the constant maintenance for it.
There is only 2 points you can make with this. First, Like Sybil says itself in the show, If the system does what its made for and improves itself to fix issues and does its job perfect, then does it matter who runs that system? And Second, Sybil is indeed evil but it only became evil because humans accepted its decisions and gave it the decision about humanity instead of using it as a tool making it their leader. Now with the second point should Sybil being the leader be revoked again? or should Sybil stay? As the first point shows as what it does keeps humanity running even if itself is run by flawed people it does what its meant to do.
Like to point out this with the 'rehab' centers: No, it's not the Sibyl System with the 'rehab' centers for latent criminals. Of course, while Sibyl was likely proposed with latent criminals alongside with it, it is ultimately the people running the facilities that are technically responsible. However, we know that Sibyl is very totalitarian, and even having doubts about the system can land you the status of latent criminal. There's another comment that points this out too (albeit with an example of political figures): who's not to say there are 'avatars' running these centers? Even if they aren't run by 'avatars', they'll be run by people chosen for that position by Sibyl. So it's not technically Sibyl, but it is being done by Sibyl. I'd say that the latent criminal 'rehab' centers are another tool of manipulation for SIbyl. If your in there for the crime of having a chance to commit crime, this is what will happen to you: 1. You go crazy and become a shell of what you once were, and ironically, a person who is now 100% willing to commit crime now rather than have it as maybe a passing thought. 2. You break and become an empty husk that does nothing but eat, drink, sleep, and stare at the white walls. 3. You break, but in a different way. Maybe you'll have thoughts that hey, your in the wrong here. It's you that's the problem. Not Sibyl or anything else. Just you. You start to believe Sibyl is right, and with it, your Crime Coefficent goes down. And when you are released as a restored citizen, the population gets yet another devout believer in the system into circulation. If your stuck in there for life, oh well. Life goes on without you, says Sibyl.
What life in Sibyl's society⁈‥ in the reign of Sibyl, all unauthorized autonomist thinking & expression that Sibyl deemed even the slightest detriment to the secret deep semi-techno state mandatory happiness is probation; in other words, you're as much as both free & a freethinker as the Sibyl only allowed you to be. Life in the pre-Sibyl era may be harsh, but life in Sibyl's society is much far even worse; life at some point in time in the pre-Sibyl society does not only just drain your life for you, but also drains your soul as well. It'll be far better to live in slums or Skid road in pre-Sybil Japan, at least you still have both your own mind & soul. Under Sibyl, with zero freedom; NO, Worse!… with Sibyl only allowing false freedom under its reign, just like The Cardassians, their stomach will always be full, but their spirits will be empty!
I still believe that the system isn't inherently evil, just doing what it believes to be "best" for the city, and taking immoral actions to make sure that there's a sense of balance; and on the other side, it could be viewed as warped justice since it's made up of a collective of criminals, etc. that've taken very questionable decisions. The system does what ever is necessary disregarding the well being of others that may get in the way.
I would argue that Kissei makes the case rather plainly that the system is built upon the minds of psychopaths who see themselves as gods to lord over humanity, rather than any kind of steward of it. The series points out that the system has absolutely no problem destroying individuals to preserve its hegemony and function. It goes out of its way to show you that people are (disposable) tools in its design and that it has made only superficial compromises with humanity to placate them. Is Akane wearing any of the clothes she chooses to wear? Is her apartment made of anything real? When the criminal(s) responsible for killing dozens of people were found, did it seek to protect humanity or to incorporate those people into its fold? The series has rather blatantly deconstructed the idea that "the system is only doing what it thinks is best..." And basically dissolves it down to: 'No. The people in charge are the criminals who have no empathy or compassion for human beings. We are nothing more than a crop to them."
@@nanasshi0711 The truth to be told, if they really want to know who is truly responsible for the tyrannical Sibyl system then they only find the nearest mirror & look deep into it.
The system's implementation is where they went wrong. Sybil would be great as a tool for the police to use. They could have dominators still linked to the Sybil system, but the operator should be who chooses the mode its in. It's really a good lesson, we should never give up our freedom, particularly not to any single entity even if it's made up of many brains... as any single system/entity is going to have its own perspective that can't help but be disconnected from the rest of society on some or many levels.
Is Makishima really an outlier case? Aren't all the brains that make up Sybil basically just like him? Sociopaths that couldn't be judged by Sybil. They may or may not have had the intelligence and charisma that he had, but this isn't just a one time thing.
He's the only one we learn of who tried to take down the system however. Most of the others seem to have a god complex, and some of them never had the chance to be outliers, given some had to be used for the system in the early stages of the crime coefficient implementation. The lore is hazy so it's hard to say, but I think his attitude, condition, and timing is what makes him an outlier
@@ProfessorViral it was also that he couldn't be detected right? It seemed a bit like 'beating a lie detector' or whatever, some people get nervous and get a (fail), even if they're innocent. Then other can actually DO terrible things and pass, because they don't give a f*ck, or even think they've done anything wrong 😯 I think the fear of 'getting caught slippin' every second affects the law abiding more than the outlaws
I would say it is evil. It is a tough question if you really think about it considering Japan is a safe country in comparison to the rest of the world in the realm of psychopass. That being said, it is designed to remove the humanity of people. Before I start to sound like a Makashima loyalist, I will say that I fundamentally don't agree with idol worshipping man or man's creation, and that is the sibyl system to it's core. Shimotsuki is used as the evidence that sibyls ultimate goal is to have the people worship and perpetuate the system. Makashima was on a path that seemed righteous but I think his methods were off and his reasoning appeared to be guided by logic but still seemed a little off.
Is this that series where they live in the future and there are Cops with those weird Guns that vaporize their targets ??? its been sitting in my to watch list for years lmao
Same here, I kept getting wrapped back into the story when I was grabbing my screenshots and forgetting what i was doing. It has a great premise for its hook, and it delivers even more past that
Well it have a very high complexity, let's say I have just watched season 1 and starting season 2 and so far I can just say that the system Sybil in my retrospective is an organism it self and just as any other organism want to grow and self protect. Yes they can be 240 brains on it but all act in congruence, in some part they want to take in makishima but he knows that when he form parts of it he well lost himself. So he did what he believes, died as he is... in his free will by someone how have his own will kogami, and in fact Sybil system will lie, manipulate and so on to keep the power and keep "living" as is show in vary parts of the series, I personally hate the inspector Akane... in which mind would you let a organism made of bunch of sociopaths run as a government, I mean in real life happens that but we live in a democratic government. Demo = people cratic = power. Power of the people. So the main question is... It's ok to let the system Sybil to control eternally? I think I will be in the revolution team.
Social credit score is coming, and what is considered 'wrong' is arbitrary. People like to think of the obvious (murder, etc), but what about questioning the govt? What if they eliminate all the jobs or turn off someone's currency chip if they say something out of turn? People can turn into desperate criminals easily
![เบิ้ล ปทุมราช - สาวสอง ( มีมี่ของอ้าย ) ft. ตาต้า,ต้องเต [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mqlMjnP08XI/mqdefault.jpg)
5:10
Given that the police chief is just an avatar of the Sybil system, how do we know that the leaders of either societal sectors are not also avatars of Sybil and thus the decisions of these structures are also decisions of sybil?
The Sybil system of the show is indeed evil, but the geeater of evil of the show was always that Humanity surrendered to it's judgment, instead of using it as a tool.
It's very interesting to think about what control, or lack of it, real people have within other societal sectors. Sybil very well may have other avatars controlling them, or real people that were chosen for the position, via the aptitude test, who Sybil was confident would make decisions in their favor. Or, it could be regular people who have just come to accept the way society is, and simply continue the evils we see. Season 3 also adds more validity to this theory in terms of government, but heads of "rehab" facility companies, etc, could very well still be part of the first two theories, so it's still up in the air. Personally, I believe its likely manipulated from the aptitude test, given Sybil's love of "model citizens" like Mika in season 2, but that would be very similar to other Sybil avatars being planted in positions of power. That does mean that Sybil is quite evil, but, like what I was discussing and how you ended your comment as well, humanity's complacency was the true evil. Also, if there's some inconsistencies between what I said here and in the video, it's just because I made it some time ago, and may have shifted how I feel after more movies and season 3. Also, thank you for the thoughtful comment! I love to see people thinking about anime, especially if my videos can facilitate that! : D
Sibyl is not evil
@@LanoxBrezzy sibyl is definitely evil, even if working toward the greater good (it's not) it's methods are undeniably evil. It exerts control and kills people to get it's way and only acts in self-preservation, it's a side effect of the kind of minds assimilated into it, they don't give a damn about society or the greater good, only themselves and power.
@@nickelakon5369 tf
@@LanoxBrezzy you're welcome to counter my statement with an argument.
The Sybil system is completely flawed since being stressed out is the only crime in the world. It is even admitted in season 2 that some people are born as "latent-criminals" which seems to have been the circumstance in episode 1 season 1 as well.
One day somebody gets scanned and suddenly they are a criminal, he then goes on to rape and nearly murder some girl and the only legal consequence of that is that now she is a criminal too.
It would be one thing if these were machines being pulled off an assembly line for being defective, but they aren't, they are people being poorly judged by the standards of machines.
As demonstrated by Makashima if you are calm you can commit whatever crime you want, and why wouldn't you be calm? The only thing to fear is fear itself, nothing else is against the law.
Sybil is 'the ends justify the means'
Exactly; safety for the most at the cost of the few, when applied to its specific situation
@@ProfessorViral If you sacrifice freedom for saftey you will lose both in the end.
Had I not known the system itself was made out of psychopaths I would have agreed that it was not inherently evil. Computers and calculations can make mistakes, hearing them say they want to bring another god into their pantheon makes me feel unsure all the people they dealt with were the people who needed handling or if they gave the best solutions to any of these cases.
That's actually what I love so much about Sybil as a character/entity; we can never be sure what's being done purely or justly, and what's being done selfishly. We know for a fact they disregard their own purposed ideals when trying to integrate Shogo, but is that a special case? There's so much "grey" to the anime
Actually, computers and calculations don't make mistakes‥ however, the very people who both create, use, control, & program computers and calculations do. Computers and calculations are just only tools, not a crutch, let alone a wheelchair, nothing more; that being said, it so appears that Sybil as an entity with its seemly end-goal designed to stip from humanity of everything of them of what makes them human in order to maintain a somewhat a so-appeared pseudo-peace & to have them not to worship Sybil as if it's some sort of god, going out of its way to use people as (disposable) tools made only superficial compromises with humanity only to promote at the end deal they got out of this is just the complacency as well as the constant maintenance for it.
There is only 2 points you can make with this.
First, Like Sybil says itself in the show, If the system does what its made for and improves itself to fix issues and does its job perfect, then does it matter who runs that system?
And Second, Sybil is indeed evil but it only became evil because humans accepted its decisions and gave it the decision about humanity instead of using it as a tool making it their leader.
Now with the second point should Sybil being the leader be revoked again? or should Sybil stay? As the first point shows as what it does keeps humanity running even if itself is run by flawed people it does what its meant to do.
We are going to have a same world order like sybil system (Neurolink), This series foreshadowed us about that
Like to point out this with the 'rehab' centers:
No, it's not the Sibyl System with the 'rehab' centers for latent criminals. Of course, while Sibyl was likely proposed with latent criminals alongside with it, it is ultimately the people running the facilities that are technically responsible. However, we know that Sibyl is very totalitarian, and even having doubts about the system can land you the status of latent criminal. There's another comment that points this out too (albeit with an example of political figures): who's not to say there are 'avatars' running these centers? Even if they aren't run by 'avatars', they'll be run by people chosen for that position by Sibyl. So it's not technically Sibyl, but it is being done by Sibyl.
I'd say that the latent criminal 'rehab' centers are another tool of manipulation for SIbyl. If your in there for the crime of having a chance to commit crime, this is what will happen to you: 1. You go crazy and become a shell of what you once were, and ironically, a person who is now 100% willing to commit crime now rather than have it as maybe a passing thought. 2. You break and become an empty husk that does nothing but eat, drink, sleep, and stare at the white walls. 3. You break, but in a different way. Maybe you'll have thoughts that hey, your in the wrong here. It's you that's the problem. Not Sibyl or anything else. Just you. You start to believe Sibyl is right, and with it, your Crime Coefficent goes down. And when you are released as a restored citizen, the population gets yet another devout believer in the system into circulation.
If your stuck in there for life, oh well. Life goes on without you, says Sibyl.
What life in Sibyl's society⁈‥ in the reign of Sibyl, all unauthorized autonomist thinking & expression that Sibyl deemed even the slightest detriment to the secret deep semi-techno state mandatory happiness is probation; in other words, you're as much as both free & a freethinker as the Sibyl only allowed you to be.
Life in the pre-Sibyl era may be harsh, but life in Sibyl's society is much far even worse; life at some point in time in the pre-Sibyl society does not only just drain your life for you, but also drains your soul as well. It'll be far better to live in slums or Skid road in pre-Sybil Japan, at least you still have both your own mind & soul.
Under Sibyl, with zero freedom; NO, Worse!… with Sibyl only allowing false freedom under its reign, just like The Cardassians, their stomach will always be full, but their spirits will be empty!
I still believe that the system isn't inherently evil, just doing what it believes to be "best" for the city, and taking immoral actions to make sure that there's a sense of balance; and on the other side, it could be viewed as warped justice since it's made up of a collective of criminals, etc. that've taken very questionable decisions. The system does what ever is necessary disregarding the well being of others that may get in the way.
I would argue that Kissei makes the case rather plainly that the system is built upon the minds of psychopaths who see themselves as gods to lord over humanity, rather than any kind of steward of it.
The series points out that the system has absolutely no problem destroying individuals to preserve its hegemony and function. It goes out of its way to show you that people are (disposable) tools in its design and that it has made only superficial compromises with humanity to placate them.
Is Akane wearing any of the clothes she chooses to wear? Is her apartment made of anything real?
When the criminal(s) responsible for killing dozens of people were found, did it seek to protect humanity or to incorporate those people into its fold?
The series has rather blatantly deconstructed the idea that "the system is only doing what it thinks is best..." And basically dissolves it down to: 'No. The people in charge are the criminals who have no empathy or compassion for human beings. We are nothing more than a crop to them."
i think it's quite clear the root of it all is a group humans who do not believe in humans' free will hence the birth of sibyl
@@Aim54Delta
That's how the real world INGSOC trying to take over the world right now thinks and works.
@@nanasshi0711 The truth to be told, if they really want to know who is truly responsible for the tyrannical Sibyl system then they only find the nearest mirror & look deep into it.
The system's implementation is where they went wrong. Sybil would be great as a tool for the police to use. They could have dominators still linked to the Sybil system, but the operator should be who chooses the mode its in. It's really a good lesson, we should never give up our freedom, particularly not to any single entity even if it's made up of many brains... as any single system/entity is going to have its own perspective that can't help but be disconnected from the rest of society on some or many levels.
Is Makishima really an outlier case? Aren't all the brains that make up Sybil basically just like him? Sociopaths that couldn't be judged by Sybil. They may or may not have had the intelligence and charisma that he had, but this isn't just a one time thing.
He's the only one we learn of who tried to take down the system however. Most of the others seem to have a god complex, and some of them never had the chance to be outliers, given some had to be used for the system in the early stages of the crime coefficient implementation. The lore is hazy so it's hard to say, but I think his attitude, condition, and timing is what makes him an outlier
@@ProfessorViral it was also that he couldn't be detected right? It seemed a bit like 'beating a lie detector' or whatever, some people get nervous and get a (fail), even if they're innocent. Then other can actually DO terrible things and pass, because they don't give a f*ck, or even think they've done anything wrong 😯 I think the fear of 'getting caught slippin' every second affects the law abiding more than the outlaws
love how you presented this
I dont get it .. I just dont get any of this stuff pls help 😀😀😀
I would say it is evil.
It is a tough question if you really think about it considering Japan is a safe country in comparison to the rest of the world in the realm of psychopass. That being said, it is designed to remove the humanity of people. Before I start to sound like a Makashima loyalist, I will say that I fundamentally don't agree with idol worshipping man or man's creation, and that is the sibyl system to it's core. Shimotsuki is used as the evidence that sibyls ultimate goal is to have the people worship and perpetuate the system.
Makashima was on a path that seemed righteous but I think his methods were off and his reasoning appeared to be guided by logic but still seemed a little off.
The Sibyl System's way of imposing its will with an iron fist is like a metaphor for a/an authoritarian/totalitarian governance.
Is this that series where they live in the future and there are Cops with those weird Guns that vaporize their targets ??? its been sitting in my to watch list for years lmao
Yeah it's that one. I really enjoyed it, so I recommend you to go watch it.
Same here, I kept getting wrapped back into the story when I was grabbing my screenshots and forgetting what i was doing. It has a great premise for its hook, and it delivers even more past that
Well it have a very high complexity, let's say I have just watched season 1 and starting season 2 and so far I can just say that the system Sybil in my retrospective is an organism it self and just as any other organism want to grow and self protect. Yes they can be 240 brains on it but all act in congruence, in some part they want to take in makishima but he knows that when he form parts of it he well lost himself. So he did what he believes, died as he is... in his free will by someone how have his own will kogami, and in fact Sybil system will lie, manipulate and so on to keep the power and keep "living" as is show in vary parts of the series, I personally hate the inspector Akane... in which mind would you let a organism made of bunch of sociopaths run as a government, I mean in real life happens that but we live in a democratic government. Demo = people cratic = power. Power of the people. So the main question is... It's ok to let the system Sybil to control eternally? I think I will be in the revolution team.
My makishima sensai say that Sybil is the worst system and evil
#cyble can’t be in our future 🙄
Socialism is creeping in
Social credit score is coming, and what is considered 'wrong' is arbitrary. People like to think of the obvious (murder, etc), but what about questioning the govt? What if they eliminate all the jobs or turn off someone's currency chip if they say something out of turn? People can turn into desperate criminals easily