I subscribed to your channel as soon as I heard your voice, because it was familiar to me ☺️ Also the FIRST female voice depicting the show vs the books on TH-cam so I was just immediately interested. Thanks for this video. Sad thing that “they” have taken so many roles from ethnic people of all walks, and have remained unbothered, but this! Lol this particular character has caused an outrage. Ignorant hypocrites indeed. Great video! All of your videos actually. You are now my numéro uno GOT TH-cam channel to watch.
the sorce material is based in europe how in the 7 gates to hell did they take "so many roles" from ethnic people of all walks when there wernt many black people from the storys becouse news flash the "ethnic people " of europe get this you might be shocked WERE WHITE PEOPLE
I saw a really cool video by David Lightbringer which explained that it is completely within the realms of possibility within the world for the Velaryons and Corlys in specific to be black, perhaps of Summer Islander descent or even descended from one of the cultures which lived in Valyria prior to the destruction etc. I honestly am excited to see this show, and actually very excited to see Corlys and the Velaryons since they are one of my favorite groups and characters. But yeah, the idea of Corlys being black is completely within the realm of possibility and actually only makes sense due to the cultural mixing which would naturally take place in trade hubs and such. Great video from you as well. I see no issue with him being black.
Thank you! I've been part of the group holding the opinion you're arguing against and your preposition has changed my mind! And by that enhanced my joy of the show by removing an issue that I had with it. Again, thank you!
The Valyrians were not all white. If House Velaryon is black however, and we ignore the points that they have been in white majority Westeros for a very long time, or how Princess Daella (who is half Valaryon through her grandmother Alyssa 2 of her children) cried when she saw a summer islander who was visiting the red keep because she'd never seen a black person (this is canon). It still excludes the glaring fact that if in this how, House Velaryon is black, then it makes ZERO sense for Viserys and Rhaenyra's Targaryen branch to be white. So no, Corlys being black doesn't make sense and that's not filth its fact
They have a unique house imo, i like the ocean theme. The iron islands had a octopus, while in reality they should of been a crab, they werent really deepwater sailors they were offshore raiders. The Velaryon fleet is like a deepwater navy, but i think the summer islanders have the best mastery of that.
It does makes sense for Velaryons to be different from the Westerosi. They are the most well travelled Valyrians family. They did not need to keep their blood to be pure . Its actually advantageous to have relatives in summer isles and other Essos cities
yes it makes sense for them to different ...why...because they are based on the historical analogy of the vikings.....who have what stereotypical traits?!
@@KingMinosxxvi as far as i know the vikings did not come from an ancient lost civilization, there isn't really a historical analogy for house velaryon. the iron islands are inspired by vikings. as pointed out in the video, valyria is inspired by rome and there were plenty of non-whites in rome, especially people from northern africa and western asia, some became emperors. i actually like the decision to portray the velaryons this way, it visually distinguishes them from both targaryens and westerosi. and the actor who plays corlys does a great job
@@NR-fd9wv Yes there were influential people from north Africa and western Asia, but not sub-Saharan Africa and not part of the main Roman patrician families. These people are supposed to be closely related to the Valerian Targaryens. no patrician Roman family would interbreed like that until they are unrecognizable. And remember the platinum blonde hair and violet eyes are a result of the pure inbreeding, so it wouldn’t make sense for mixed Targaryen’s to have those features. Every time in the story that a valerian breeds with a non-valerian they lose those features.
@@JokerMxyzptlk the fictional world is different from ours, rome and valyria are not the same. summer islands for example are closer to valyria than sub sahara africa to rome and easier accessible. the roman empire never expanded far enough to reach sub saharan africa. there is also no source that ever mentioned romans wanting to maintain any specific ethnic features, so thats just made up. the patricians cared for their status as nobles, so they married members from other patrician families, but that had nothing to do with ethnicity or race, which are concepts that were unknown to romans, they distinguished themselves from others by culture. the patrician families were powerful during the roman republic, but became relatively insignificant in the empire. so that comparison doesn't make much sense, and even if it would, the velaryons are specifically said not to be one of the ruling families of valyria anyway. during the roman empire families from different parts of the empire became powerful and people from europe, western asia and northern africa didn't all look the same. to call them influential is an understatement, when you consider that several emperors came from those families, they became more powerful than the patrician families. also, you are confusing targaryen and valyrian. the eye- and haircolour is not a targaryen feature, but a valyrian, which is mentioned various times in the books. it is not caused by inbreeding, the targs started inbreeding after the doom, when the other families that had dragon riders and most valyrian families were extinct, these features already existed at that time. it is even mentioned that the same features are still found among the populations of lys and volantis, which are descendents of valyria. and the features don't always get lost, there are several bastards who have these features and only have one parent of valyrian descent. some of them should appear on the show later in the story.
@@NR-fd9wv valyerions are a RACE of people and the Targaryens chose to in breed themselves in order to keep their racial characteristics pure. and they were fine with breeding with valyron family because they shared the same characteristics. I have a feeling if the valyreon family had black skin the Targaryen‘s wouldn’t have wanted to mix with them because they were obsessed with their features and their blood. There’s no evidence at all of any Valerian‘s being anything other than white to go with the blonde hair and violet eyes. People have to stop trying to shove things into a story just because a story doesn’t say that it didn’t happen, Or didn’t exist. Maybe Peter Pan really learned how to fly from a gay black woman who he met before Tinker Bell right? I mean the story doesn’t say that didn’t happen! If any Valyrian‘s interbred with other people they would no longer be valerian by race but perhaps by social status they could be. So if valerian had bred with Black people from summer isles they would’ve lost their violet eyes and blonde hair. Now overtime those black descendants could keep breeding with valerian and bring back those features, but they would then not keep the black skin. Unless we are saying that in this world black skin somehow works differently than the genetics we know. Also Rome did have a trading Netwerk with sub-Saharan Africans for things like ivory and turtle shells. please don’t be a deliberately obtuse about this, we all know that valerian‘s are a single race and even if they were a multi ethnic society due to the reach of their power ( kind of like Rome or Venice) that doesn’t change that the Valerien people look the same. The idea that they traveled to a more primitive place to create a family with Black people and somehow kept the black skin while maintaining the blonde hair and violet eyes, Jesus come on we all know this is made up for identity politics sake. George RR Martin did not intend these characters to be anything other than the image of valerian we have come to expect. i’m OK with the idea of newly conquered people in the valerian empire becoming prominent families because that did happen in the Roman empire and even with the general Mediterranean area during the Venetian supremacy. but then they would not have the ultra recessive traits of valyereons along with the ultra dominant black skin of Islanders. There’s nothing in the source material to explain how that could possibly happen. this is true of all empires and new people who are enveloped by them. New prominent families can arise and interbreeding can happen but then they won’t have the extreme features of the original stock. look we all know what this is. It’s a response to Black Lives Matter. It’s just the morality of the moment controlling the story. These characters were never meant to be black. There’s nothing in the source material That would point to the extreme stretching we are trying to do to explain why they could be black. it’s just anytime something isn’t explicitly stated, sub-Saharan African people are trying to wedge themselves in there as if they were there all along. So why not Chinese or Japanese or Byzantine? If we’re going to play it loose with the source material and fill in the gaps with specious retconning, then why black? There were many prominent Romans from North Africa but they weren’t black in the sense that a sub-Saharan African is black. They do not have the same features. All the prominent people of the Roman Empire were from advanced civilizations around the Mediterranean, not sub-Saharan Africa. Sub-Saharan Africans are always trying to include themselves in the accomplishments of North Africa just because some not all but some North Africans have darker skin. Septimus Severus has many pieces of art and descriptions of him and he definitely does not look like a sub-Saharan African. He may have been just a little bit darker than northern Europeans kind of like white Algerian who has a bit swarthy-er of a complexion. So again, why black? why would it be the least developed people on the planet? Why wouldn’t it be another great society or civilization. Why is this amazing character who is supposedly up for grabs because his skin color is never explicitly stated, going to sub-Saharan African people rather than any other more deserving or desiring people? Why not Mexican? It’s because in this moment promoting Black people across the board is all the rage.
Well said, I love Game of Thrones. Binged watched it in 2 weeks. When I heard House of the Dragons was coming out and it was a black character, I was skeptical. Usually they love doing black men wrong in shows like this. But he easily became one of the most loved characters for me by episode 2.
I've read Fire and Blood twice and I don't actually recall a real description about Corlys the sea snake. I think people are twisting the fact that the Valaryons and Targaryens are two seperate peoples it was the Targaryens who usually get described as very pale skin not Valaryons or other people's from the DOOMED Valyria. Why does this casting choice have to get so many people worked up? It really shouldn't be divisive it's a television show can we just get excited for something we all clearly share and that's passion for this incredible world of a song of ice and fire? Who cares about skin color. Nobody cares about the color of dragons!!?? Why then about people? Waste of energy just enjoy the product!
The families intermarried a lot and have the same origin so it would be logical that they look the same, also if you know the story its dumb because people speculated about the parents of his grandkids in this case it would be obvious. And on a sidenote: id be pissed if they changed dragon colors just imagine balerion the pink dread
Вы серьёзно? Во-первых, Веларионы не редко вступали в браки с Таргариенами (у того же Эйгона Завоевателя мать была из дома Веларион), сын Корвиса так и вовсе женат на той, что могла стать королевой. Веларионы не могут быть темнокожими. Во-вторых, каким это образом цвет кожи человека связон с цветом кожи драконов? И раз так не важно, какого цвета персонаж, так может мы просто налепим на персонажей джинсы, солнцезащитные очки и заставим его реп читать? Ну а что? Это же ФеНТеЗи!!!
I admit, I’ve recently gotten ASOIAF fatigue. After years of devouring content from creators across many platforms, I woke up one day, and decided I didn’t really care to spend my thoughts on theories about Westeros. However, this video just brought me back! Way to go Gray! I can’t wait for the show, and I have no problem at all with the casting. My worries revolve around the plot, writing, and acting. Don’t let them screw this up like Dave’s did with the last season of GOT. It’s a great story.
Valyria was a melting pot in the sense that the massive lands of the freehold was. The thing is, the Valyrian nobility was likely super homogenous. In Volantis, they erected a wall to keep people with “dirty blood” out.
Genetics and skin colour are not necessary the same thing. The people of Solomon islands look black but have blonde hair. There are black people who inherited a gene that cause their hair to be red. Where did that come from?.
Gray, to me you are one of the greatest orators i have heard till date.the voice modulations that u so easily bring in while paraphrasing and the excitement that u build up till you reach the climax of your videos has never failed to pump me up for the story more and more. ngl sometimes when i am agitated i play your vidoes to hear u read an excerpt, it is so damn soothing. if i am ever asked how might angels sound i am gonna say without thinking twice like u reading game of thrones. i love you and your videos!!!! never stop please!! again amazing, just amazing!!! and just adding to the topic of this video i just dont know what exactly makes peopel racist like how? people are people, how does colour, race even matters? its will never stop baffling me. to me it feels like the same thing as humans seeing our species as the most evolved when the only thing we have evolved disproportionately is our stupid damn egoes, racist people just take it to another level. people are people, humanity is all about being kind and accepting not being divisive and ugly. and i cant stress how much i have loved your videos and you angelic voice from the very first video!! GOD BLESS YOU!! peace
It was said that when Corlys died, the great wild dragon Cannibal flew overhead. Some say it was just cause he was looking for a meal, but I like to think he DID bond Cannibal. IMAGINE A SCENE WHERE CORLYS BONDS WITH THE *THE* CANNIBAL
I gotta say, as a mixed raced Guy myself when I heard the casting I was a little dissapointed and concerned lorewise. Not because of the "VaLyRiAnS aRe WhItE" thing but because of Rhaenyra's children and Laenor Velaryon. I do like seing my race represented in media but I want it to feel natural and not pushed and at first thats what it felt like. But after I saw that they actually have silver hair I am so relieved you cant imagine. Not only do Rhaenyra's children make sense again but now I'm actually really excited to see some mixed race Valyrians in Laenor and Laena Vaelaryon. It's like seeing how I would look like as a Valyrian haha. I already have a cosplay Idea for the next Con lmao "If Laenor Velaryon had gotten a grip". It can also revive the whole Dragonblood discussion tbh. If the Valyrians infacted were a multiethnic people, like the Roman Empire they are based on, WHAT the hell did they do or what kind of Bloodpact did they do that might involve them bonding with Dragons more easy. And was that the reason why their Hair turned white and why they had to marry brother to sister. Was that like the consequence of their ritual or smth. Aaaaanyway, since the pictures came out I am actually really hyped and excited. So just two cents from a mixed race person. I feel like a lot of the discourse on this topic were people who arent black or mixed speaking on our behalf, not saying that they shouldnt speak on the matter at all or that you did that. I just took one glance at Twitter recently and saw a lot of none mixed or black people calling eachother names *sigh* PS: I'm just gona leave this here. By all the Laws of Andal and Valyrian Primogeniture, was House Velaryon robbed from the throne, THEY are the rightful heirs...I said what I said
@@joshuaadams1178 It's not weird that people have an issue. People are racist, plain and simple. The irony is their aversion to having a black character in these roles is because they themselves like - subconsciously or otherwise - seeing themselves portrayed, yet lack the self awareness to understand why minorities also want to see themselves onscreen. in any case, GRRM is an Exec Producer, he can change anything at any time and it will be accurate because he's the literal source of all canon, if he doesn't say it's wrong then who are these smoothbrains to question it.
@@Red1Green2Blue3 There is actually a plot issue caused by changing the race of corlys that will have to be written around. Rhaenera targaryen and laenor velaryon both had typical dragonlord looks (fair skin, purple eyes, silver-gold hair). Their sons Jace, luke, and Joffrey had brown eyes and hair like their biological father from house strong. The whole realm suspected they were bastards due to their looks differing from their valyrian parents. If corlys and laenor are black/mixed, this bastardry will not be apparent to the realm.
@@beastley4318 If you think any plot reason is behind this you're beyond naïve. See: every black actor cast in a major role where the fictional character formerly had white skin that has no impact on the plot. In any case, GRRM has overseen this project, who are YOU or anyone else to say there is a plot issue if the literal originator doesn't think so.
Everything you said is so on point and I agree 100%, in fact, The Velaryons are gorgeous characters as well (Laena was one of the most beautiful characters and one of the most tragic losses and Baela and Rhaena both take after her beauty and composure). In the end, this worked out beautifully, Steve Toussaint is brilliant as Corlys and he and Rhaenys are the most ideal team couple.
@@maxb7163 then he stopped himself cuz making black people evil slavers was too much for his dragons and tits book. Not even him was that krazey Unlike dumb and dumber who tried to pitch slave fan fiction to HBO with “confederate”
I honestly believe they did this because it will make it easier for new audiences to learn the difference between the Targaryens and the Velaryons. If they were all white haired, white skinned people then people would be really confused. It makes it so much simpler to understand who is who. (And to get more ethnicity in the show because why not? Game of thrones the tv show never exclusively said that house Velaryon was all white lol. In fact they never mentioned them so... they can be whatever George likes).
Or they could have just hired him because he's a good actor. Why do black actors always need some other reason to be hired (increasing diversity, to show the audience something, being 'woke')? This assumption is racist in itself and is part of the problem.
@@Red1Green2Blue3 Okay first, did you even read my full message. I said it’s simply a great way to include diversity, I never spoke about his acting because I’ve never seen his acting. Have you? Second, it’s obviously a change from the book than many are upset about (for no reason). I’m here to simply tell people it’s a great way to get representation into the show as well as making it easier or newer audiences to understand who is who. Third, please don’t talk down to be about race before even asking what race I am myself. It’s just plain ignorant and rude. Fourth, don’t come for someone that’s trying to help. Maybe you should use your time more wisely and actually @ someone that’s negatively impacting the series before it even began.
@@Red1Green2Blue3 I’m clearly offering a different alternative than trying to be “woke”. It’s making the show easier for new viewers to understand. And one last time, ask what race I am next time...
@@joshuaadams1178 Yes, I did read it. And your type of answer is one of a long list of rationalising why a black or minority actor has been hired - other than them just being a good actor. White actors never need to have their hiring justified (based on their skin colour) and so you are applying a different, arbitrary, standard to black actors that is not applied to white actors - this is textbook racist thinking. Side note: slow down and think before you post, there is absolutely no need to spam responses as you think of them.
I never have understood the backlash of casting a black actor for a character who is white like it doesn't matter the character is the character regardless of race. how people make it a big issue is fucking ridiculous
I just wanna say your videos have helped to make me a true fan of the books and not just a poser fan of the shows. That's all. No caveat, no criticism whatsoever. You keep doin you boo boo.. I love it!
I’m not worried at all. D&D are not involved, Martin has written the script, or heavily influenced it. Their best director Sapochnik, is one of the show runners, and ramin djwadi is returning to do the score. I know season 8 left a sour taste if people’s mouths, but people should give this a chance
THANK YOU!!! I knew as soon as I saw the casting that racists people would have an issue with this. Too Damn Bad...don’t watch! You said what you said so they can Kick Rocks because this is your channel and who are they to challenge you?!!! Again, thank you!
YOU KEPT IT 100!!! THIS IS FANTASY AND MORE PEOPLE SHOULD READ THE BOOKS! you will enjoy the series as much as mistress Gray Area does. I love that Gray Area commands the knowledge of this series like judges master the law. THANK YOU GRAY AREA FOR EDUCATING THOSE WHO DO NOT READ OR ARE IGNORANT TO THE COCEPT OF FANTASY ( to bring social justice into this entertainment shows you how small some people are😕)
I had no idea there was any contention about casting Steve Toussaint as Corlys Velaryon. IMO he is the most regal and interesting looking of the cast so far.
@@AysKuz wow...I had no idea. I suppose I didn't really pay all that much attention to whether folks liked the casting when it was announced, figuring after GoT's ending it was inevitable that people would be overly critical. But people being upset over the man's skin color in this casting just never crossed my mind.
Had to revisit this video after watching the first episode of House of the dragon. Thank you so much for this! no feelings, just facts. But they won’t hear you because their own bigotry won’t allow them to see anything other than white is right. So many of the men in these stories have children all over the map, but heaven forbid one of them is black. They can believe dragons, dragon people, ice zombies and all other sorts of magic but black valyrians or even targaryen - too much!
I mean to be honest I think the original conception of corlys was him being the "traditional valerian look" if I'm not mistaken his descendant (or I assume is his descendant) in a song of ice and fire is described in looking like rhaegar by cersie and I can't confirm this without a shadow doubt but believe that corly's son is explicitly described as having blonde hair or something in those regards .
Sir the traditional valerian look applies to families who kept the blood line clear. House Velaryan was not one of those houses and they left valeria before the targs. It makes sense as he is probably part summer islander
@@alexone5045 but to say the valaryans in the occasions where their physical characteristics were described in the text weren't basically the targ look would just simply be false , earliest example would be Alyssa Velaryon (Jaehaerys mom) and latest would go all the way to the current timeline of the lore with Aurane Waters . Its completely valid for people to assume they were always were faired haired , pale skin , purple eyed people and that includes the Sea snake , now we have some reasonable lore reasons why that might not always be The case like summer islander stuff BUT it's wrong to say that the people who assumed that the valaryans always had the same ethnicity to that of a targaryen throughout their family tree is a unreasonable assumption to have when the text gave no other reason to think otherwise and in fact reinforced the idea with Aurane waters .
@@MI3am keyword is "assume" .... so when facts are laid or alternative perspectives are laid, they should simply go with the flow and enjoy it, instead of making an issue of it... 😊
@Silver Lady Well first she said she wasn't going to give opinions and that what she was about to say is objective facts then proceeded to immediately give opinion after opinion, also omitting facts in the lore that completely contradicted those opnions, ect.
@Silver Lady I posted that comment over a month ago, I'm not about to rewatch this gaslighting propaganda just to point out examples of what can easily be found throughout the entire video. The entire video is my example, all you need to know is valyrians are said to have specific features and to share them because they are a race, if you keep that one fact in mind while watching this video you understand exactly how and when she lied.
@@TrollinFromFlask Does it really bother you that much that a fictional character (completely badass character I must say) that was made up in some man’s head, is not the race that you pictured? If you pictured the man white and in another form of media he is a different race then that is not our problem. If it bothers you that much then don’t watch the show then. No one is forcing you. If you’d rather not see a strong black man in a very important role kick ass and take names then don’t watch it. No harm done :)
@@HPfan153 It bothers me that the lore and logic of the story has been made inconsistent because of political issues that have nothing to do with the story. Has nothing to do with what I think of a "strong black man" or whatever tf you're on, if that's your kink keep it to yourself dude I didn't even ask. My issue is about what does and doesn't make sense and why.
I keep coming back to this video any time I need to refresh my arguing points to continue argue about my favorite lord of the seas, the sea snake. I will protect him till my last breath. this has turned out to be THE BEST casting of the show thus far. I am so happy to see diversity in westeros, it makes my soul happy.
Hermione is black, Batwoman is black, and now this guy, get with the times people. This is what's happening, and like this woman says, they can do whatever the fuck they want with the fiction they control.. 🙄
1st off: Go 'head Gray!!! ❤❤❤ As an American, I am a fan of British TV and film. One of the things I noticed is that they seem to cast whomever is best to play whatever. Once, I watched a movie with a bunch of Irish ladies as protagonists. In it, they showed everyone's home life. One of the women happened to have a black daughter. They never explained it or acknowledged it. The plot just went on. I loved it! Why must anyone have to explain why they should be allowed to play in the same sandbox as the other kids? If you're different, why do you even need a "backstory"? If you're a baller, can't you just show up and play? It's all make-believe, so what's the big deal? The showrunners don't seem to care too much & I'm here for it. Besides, Steve and Eve are THAT power couple in HOT D. He's killing it in the role and their chemistry is off the charts.
the issue is that grrm has stated he builds charaters based off actual events and people blacks and the left are trying to erode white history both in movies and in real life
The problem is the tokenization of traditionally white characters. I personally hate that stuff. Either create an Original blk character or just leave it alone. It’s like they don’t believe in black characters or something. I don’t like this hand me down or pity party bs.
I have a genuine question for people. Would it be okay to race swap a book character who is described as a POC in a tv show or film and make them white? Of course not. Then why is it accepted as long as it’s the other way around? The hypocrisy is unreal. I want book characters to be cast to resemble what they are described as in the book. Whatever race they are described as in the source material/ book then that’s what they should look like.
@@GrayArea yeah, but what about Saladhor Saan? Xaro Xoan Daxos? Talissa? All these were originally portrayed as white but they were cast as black. That’s 3 for 1 In favor of black casting! What say ye to that?
@@eccemono6534 you’re right; it’s a different character, but they serve the same function in the story: as Cersei’s collateral against Tyrion as cover for Shae, which was her point. To which I point to Talissa, a character with the same function as Jeyne Westerling, but who is an entirely different person. Whereas, Xaro and Sallador were just flat raceswapped.
That historically happened all the time in movies and shows. But y’all are angry that a character was race swapped and made a black Valyrion’s. We also have black Valyrion’s in the books.
The books never actually say there isn't a race of flying pigs in Westeros. In fact, there's a coat of arms with a winged pig. So we can't rule out winged pigs in Westeros. That's the level of argumentation I am seeing on my timeline today. - Linda Antonsson, coauthor of World of Ice and Fire.
@@GrayArea if she is a racist (a label Americans tend to very easily pin on each other) then what does that tell you about GRRM? He's working with her, not with you or with me. If someone does not agree with this casting for Corlys that does not automatically make him a racist. I am first to say how D&D were a-holes towards most of their non-white characters. Those who weren't villainized, did not get any form of happy end. Grey Worm was last to remain standing, but that voyage to Naath was just one more spit D&D make on the lore. That being said, I also know that this cast of Corlys is motivated with diversity of the cast because GOT had Essos, from Braavos to Qarth. HOTD is based in Westeros, a racially uniformed continent (except to some extent Dorne) but again, that is Martin. He wrote the damn books. He placed only white and olive skinned people in Westeros. He made Valyrians to look as they look, with their pale white skin and silver hair and purple eyes (which we will never get onscreen), he wrote how one Targaryen princess was scared beyond her wits seeing a Summer Islander. Not Antonsson, not me, not anyone of those YT users who don't like or are skeptical about this show version of Corlys. All George. And now, as we are in 2021. HBO must adjust their adaptation to the moment in which we are living. It's simple as that.
@@GrayArea I didn't see it that way, she used that parallel to point out how theory of multiracial Valyria makes no sense. Since winged pigs and black Valyrians (and white Valyrians too) are all fictional, how can you insult something fictional by comparing it with something else also fictional? It's like saying how all Dornish or Meereenese are goatf..kers. What is racist in that? They don't exist. It was not an insult to Spanish (where Dorne scenes were filmed) or Croatians (where Meereen scenes were filmed)
@@Harahvaiti same could be said for race swapping a fictional character. If it’s fictional why does it matter? Just read her tweets. She just said she doesn’t care about George’s opinions on his own damn books.
"Martin describes members of House Velaryon as having Targaryen-ish features, so we’re likely talking blonde hair, purple eyes and pale skin." I feel certain that such a distinguishing feature difference would be mentioned in his description. That's just logical in all thoughts and aspects. It's not about racism in any way (at least for me and most others I'd presume), it's about portraying the characters as they're expected to be from the books. When they're not, it usually is only done for diversity’s sake. You're right that he wasn't described in the books however, when the creator of the "fantasy" world explains that they're basically identical to the Targaryens, it's pretty apparent what they all look like. It's also pretty clear what the people of a neighboring country would look like when they're in the exact same part of the world. Why would one country be full of pale as a 👻 folk and the other have the complete opposite skin shade??? 🤔 Even in fantasy worlds, that makes no sense WSO...
Where are you going with this? Targaryan features aren't always dominant look at Balor Breakspear, The daughter of Rhegar and the dornish princess and Orys Baratheon also claimed some Targaryan blood. Also, House Velaryon is also known to intermingle. in the main tv series, several prominent characters weren't portrayed correctly such as the Stark kids. Don't remember any outrage about that. Other relevant plot points were dropped such as Tyrion's nose not being cut off, Dany/Cersei not becoming totally bald. Tyene being salty dornish. Now a black man shows up and there isn't some sort of race thing going on.
@@whitediamond133 you answered your own ? Dorn has darker skinned people. So of course there's a high chance of their child having similar traits of the father... ugh... The CREATOR stated they have Targaryen-ish features. So unless he was keeping it a secret that they had similar features other than their skin, it's apparent what they look like. Otherwise he could have just said they have white hair too. How can this be debated??? You are pointing out minor differences, again minor differences. How is this relevant? They didn't completely change the race or gender of anyone in the series, that's the topic of discussion. If you truly believe that such a distinguishing difference would not be mentioned by the creator of the series, you're naive. In fact he confirmed that they aren't black: "Right from the start I wanted the Targaryens, and by extension the Valryians from whom they were descended, to be a race apart, with distinctive features that set them apart from the rest of Westeros, and helped explain their obsession with the purity of their blood. To do this, I made a conventional ‘high fantasy’ choice, and gave them silver-gold hair, purple and violet eyes, fine chiseled aristocratic features. That worked well enough, at least in the books (on the show, less so). But in recent years, it has occurred to me from time to time that it might have made for an interesting twist if instead I had made the dragonlords of Valyria… and therefore the Targaryens… black. Maybe I could have kept the silver hair too, though… no, that comes too close to ‘dark elf’ territory, but still… if I’d had dark-skinned dragonlords invade and conquer and dominate a largely white Westeros… though that choice would have brought its own perils. The Targaryens have not all been heroic, after all… some of them have been monsters, madmen, so… Well, it’s all moot. The idea came to me about twenty years too late."
@@justindwyer324 if you reverse the colors in that statement twitter would have raged that sounds very racist it sounds like something he was forced to say to appease someone
Ok how about this, if (TALENTED) black actors get cast as characters that you assumed were white because the creators purposely wanted to diversify the cast, who cares? WHO CAAAAAARES god the constant whining about fantasy tv shows with black people in it is SO annoying. Just don’t watch the show if it’s that important to you. The only reason someone should be upset at a casting choice is if the actor SUCKS. “But you would care if a white actor was cast to play a black/Asian/Latino character.” Yes because many times in those stories the experience of being a minority is pertinent to those stories. I thought I should just mention that too before someone brought it up 🙄
Am i like the only one who thought this was a genious idea and opens up so much more of the Valryian mythology/lore in this series? Plus HE IS AN AMAZING ACTOR! I cannot wait to return to westeros (“ even tho i really wanted that long night show this ( The Dance of the Dragons”) was my other top choice
Preach queen preach! Sorry I’m late to watching this but damn this vid is fire AF. You’re 100% correct A black Corlys will work out fine in fact it might work out a lot better than ppl think. Laena and Laenor will be half black so what will happen is Jac, Luc, and Joff will be viewed as bastards because there’s not a hint of Corlys or Laenor seen in them as in they look white as rice lmao. Furthermore, considering Baela and Rhaena(Daemon’s kids with Laena) will also look mixed they could use that to give further credence to the bastard rumors like, “Why is It Laenor’s kids look completely different from Laena’s kids even though they both have Targaryen and Velaryon parents.?” 🧐 Now obviously in real life there would be plenty of logical explanations for why they look the way they do but we all know GRRM does genetics different in ASOIAF. So going that route would pretty much have the same effect as in the source material the show would just be taking a slightly different route to get there lol.
Thank you Gray for this video. I've said and defended this casting from the start. I tell whom ever has a problem with it to contact GRRM because I'm sure they asked him his thoughts. I could be wrong, but I'm not lol
I agree, because even some of the casting to GOT wasn't 100% accurate and look how amazing all of their performances were. I feel like they wouldn't cast a black actor as Corlys unless they knew he could portray the character well. Also, the Targaryens have been practically everywhere throughout the world so him being black isn't too far fetched either.
Yep, and now we know why we got a World Book and Fire and Blood instead of Winds or some D & E's. Worst of all, the accounts in F & B are intentionally unreliable so George *has to help them write this.* Cause you know, it's not like the last show didn't cause him to piss away a decade and lose any chance of finishing book 7. Now we'll probably never get Winds either. Let alone another D & E. Before this I thought there was a chance we'd get Winds at least. Not anymore.
Lady Fearless Gray Thank You for refusing to allow ignorant foolery to prevail and sulley the groundbreaking debut of Sir Toussaint. So it is now I have 2 heroes Ser Corlys and you. Proud to have joined The Sweet Children of Summer. Gods Be Good. 👍
THANK YOU! The way people have been hammering his casting has sickened me. This adds so much more to the story and the universe, I am so excited and this casting is a big part of why I am. Like you said, it shows they have read and understood the material!
This is what baffles me. In a world where we have issues like homelessness, lack of food and adequate housing, displaced veterans, child abuse, and domestic abuse...this is what people choose to get irate and throw fits about?! If people put half as much energy into worthwhile causes rather than feigned outrage at a fantasy book character this world would be a much better place!
@@GrayArea I'm referring to people getting so upset over something that they are A) clearly wrong about, and B) something that is kind of silly to be so upset about because it's a fantasy series. So who's to say what color a character's skin is, especially when what that person looks like hasn't been described.
you tell them narrow minded people 👏 some folks really are that screwed up that they don't see the true roots and under tones of their statements and arguments side stepping when they get cornered like "o that's not how I mean it " but really that is exactly how they mean it .....some people suck
Yes!!!! Say that again for the people in the back! I am a HUGE ASOIAF fan since before the show and you are 100% correct! Thanks for educating the jokers out there :)
If House Velaryon is black, and we ignore the points that they have been in white majority Westeros for a very long time, or how Princess Daella (who is half Valaryon through her grandmother Alyssa 2 of her children) cried when she saw a summer islander who was visiting the red keep because she'd never seen a black person (this is canon). It still excludes the glaring fact that if in this how, House Velaryon is black, then it makes ZERO sense for Viserys and Rhaenyra's Targaryen branch to be white. So no, Corlys being black doesn't make sense.
I think people also need to stop using bad readings of lore to justify the change. The show doesn’t need any justification to make the Velaryons black beyond ‘we decided to make them black.’ That’s it. People saying ‘well Pentos, well the Summer Islands…’ are entirely wrong. There is no justification for black Velaryons in the books, and that’s okay! I have a ton of faith that the showrunners have made the right choice, it’s not a concern to me, but they’re very obviously not black in the books, and people need to stop pretending that they might be. Corlys's kids Leanor and Leana have been recasted as well,and they are both black,while in the books its specifically stated that they have typical Valyrian features,heck a whole story plot involve their physical appearence at one point,especially for Laenor Heck even the official GOT team release artworks and illustrations videos showing the Dance of the Dragons,years ago when GOT aired on TV,and Corlys and the Velaryons were shown to be typically Valyrian looking,that's why Targs maried them in the first place,house Velaryon and Celtigar are sworn vassals of Targaryens when the Targaryens went to Westeros,Aegon the conqueror himself and his sister wives were half Velaryon,Velaryons had absolutely no reasons to marry outside their racial kin because their blood was the source of their power,in a world were only 3 houses in the entire Seven Kingdoms were of Valyrian descent,and beyond that,Targs and Velaryons kept their Valyrian heritage alive People should stop getting triggered,nothing in the books support that race swapping,actually it might hurt the whole storyline,and you completely got wrong with you argument,as VELARYONS ARE ACTUALLY DRAGONSRIDERS,thats the whole plot,keep the blood pure and keep affinity with Dragonriding and Valyrian magic,and the point you try to make saying Corlys's mother could have been black,while Corlys is obviously fully black,not even mixed race is just laughable
I always pictured Corlys as an old white guy but I can see no wrong with this casting. I wasn’t expecting it, not gonna lie, but Steve Toussaint is fine as hell & will be perfect as Corlys.
I know this is a fantasy tv show but the casting really doesn't make sense. First, in the beautifully and lavishly illustrated World of Ice and Fire book every Valyrian is depicted with silvery pale hair and purplish eyes. Second, I'm not sure if Corlys' appearance is ever described but his son Laenor' appearance is. He's described as sharing the Valyrian look of the Targyrians. He's also a dragon rider. Thirdly, There have been depictions of Corlys and Leanor previously in media that George Martin was aware of. They are always shown as fair with silver blond/ white hair. Finally it's pretty obvious HBO is hoping to increase black viewership and avoid criticism such as GOT and ASOIAF received for having such a largely white cast. Everyone should just admit this and realize it's not that important but arguing it's somehow canon accurate and tying yourself in logical knots trying to justify it is ridiculous.
Exactly. Ignoring the written canon and selling non-existing canon, hinted canon or even pure head-canon to justify something that is obviously done to bring the House of the Dragon to certain demographic group is pointless. But, instead of labeling people who say this casting is not canon as racist - maybe those doing the labeling should ponder on why Martin wrote most of his characters to be white. Velaryons included. And how TV adaptations of his work must, due to current sociocultural moment in the US and most of Western world, be far more diverse in sense of characters than books are.
Fun fact: In the first book of F&B, theres one hightower guy who arrives at old town with a crew full of black people from the summer isles and the population of the city freak out thinking that theyre demons..... so i cant see how having a black lord is cannonically accurate
George RR Martin also showed that many Valyrion’s are mixed race, some were darker than others. And he wanted the Valyrion’s to be separated by different features. The illustrations were done by different people, but Valyrion’s features were not described as having pale skin all the time.
Rawr !!! Get em Gray 😂 I was just happy to get a photo of a new character. His skin color didn’t even cross my mind until somebody brought it up in a negative manner. I was like wtf this is a fantasy world, literally anything goes. God can we not bring racial discrimination into this realm. I’m glad u made a video on this becus all these prejudice folks need to take this ish elsewhere. Personally I’m stoked for this series!
Thank you for this! I have always loved your channel! your energy and vibe in combination with my favorite fantasy is amazing, and I’m seeing why! Everything you said NEEDED TO BE SAID!
When they announced the casting I was rolling my eyes thinking they didnt get or care about the source material, but I decided to wait and see how they sell it and pull it off. I feel the most important detail is that Corlys' grandchildren are clearly not his blood for all the court to see in echos of Cersei and Robert's children. And when I saw him with the blonde wig it all clicked for me; if the showrunners give Corlys Valyrian traits (still hoping for purple eyes!) then it all works. Especially with what you are reminding everyone about his being a seafaring family. This makes sense to me now with book cannon, so I am happy to F off and enjoy this. So far what I am seeing on screen is working and calming my inner nerd.
Look, at first I didn't think it would work, but after seeing the photo......... IT'S FREAKING PERFECT! OMG he looks amazing and I can't wait to watch his performance.
...andi posted that before I finished the video, and you are absolutely right about everything and now I feel stupid for even doubting it in the first place.
See this is what I appreciate. Someone else made a comment like this too. Y’all are the realist ones in this comment section bc you ADMITTED you had biases but are willing to do the work to get past them. This is what real anti racism work looks like right here not a bunch of white Ppl lying to themselves and us by acting like they never had prejudices and biases bc then their biases come out in hurtful ways. We can work with this. This is real. Thank you 🙏🏾 ❤️✊🏾
I'm a BW (black woman) and I disagree with you. Unless you're from the Solomon islands black people aren't walking around with blonde hair. "Fine, aristocrat features" does not equate to coily hair and a full featured nose and lips. Also how the heck would Corlys be walking around looking 90+% black? If he was mixed why wouldn't he look like a biracial? George and production can cast who they want but no he does not look the part. Heck the Targaryens on this show aren't as good looking as Viserys and Dany were so they dont look the part either if you ask me, Targaryens are supposed to be almost other worldy handsome.
Honestly, I just want this show to rock and temper my feelings toward season 8. He looks amazing and is a proven brilliant actor. Keep up the good work milady!!!
You people do realize that Aenys Targaryen, the father of king Jahaerys and Alysanne took a Velaryon as his wife? Yet you don't see any black targaryen even though the genes run through the bloodline. So, if the Velaryons were truly black then there should have been mixed Targaryens like Daemon's daughters. Also, the Targaryens were obsessed with keeping the blood of the dragon pure! They married Velaryons specifically for their fine Valyrian traits, there's no way they would have done it if the Velaryons were black. Conclusion: the show is not canon but marely an inaccurate representation of the story with unnecessary diversity in order to fulfill the primary standards of movie industry of this decade.
He's an actor let him act I could care less what his skin color is and I'm very disappointed that this is even an issue. Good for you for pointing all this out.
Dany Targaryen has the Targaryen features of silver-white hair pale skin , but even Dany has some blood from the Kingdom of Dorne . The Dorne only join the 7 kingdom after a marriage alliance between the King and Princess of Targaryen married Prince and Princess of Dorne. My point is that even the pure Targaryen like Dany are not pure . They have mixed marriage once a while and then a few generation later their descendant still silver-white hair pale skin. Even the Targargen had married some Black Velaryon , a few generation later they could still have the silver-white hair pale skin look. Rhaegar Targaryen ( John snow)'s father , his first wife was a Dorne princess as well , their children were mixed as well .
Another point I don't see people making much is that making them black helps differentiate them from the Targs, which is helpful for people who don't know all the characters. It just gives some variety.
Sissssssss. I'm over here trying to go to bed and instead I'm just rolling and stannin' this. But no, you hit the nail on the head in that they seem to actually know the story better. George R. R. Martin has explained that he considered depicting the Targaryans as black, and opted against it at the time due to political overtones. Besides that though is as you mentioned: this is a diverse world. And even the world it is based on....was also diverse. People love to forget about Afro-Roman relations, about Norse exploration into Africa.Y'all want to believe Christopher Columbus "discovered" America, but refuse to believe that populations in the same damn hemisphere could've intermixed???????? Baffled. Baffled, frustrated, and amused. But more than anything: excited for this show and the knowledge we may actually have decent showrunners this time (even if I'm still salty about not getting an Aegon's Conquest spinoff).
@Silver Lady and yet the racist checkmate is always "but wut if a black character was played by a white person 🥴" Generally I am pro education but frankly I am irritated and done with this kind of shit today. Please go be ignorant somewhere else, or take the time to educate yourself and come back before you try and argue from this played out bullshit.
The only time I can see switching race being an issue is if it messes with a plot point. But they can easily make Rhaenyras children suspicious as Strongs because they are obviously white rather than mixed race, not just the lack of white hair.
I enjoy your content and I have no problem with race and castings, unless it as you said, interferes with the plot. And it MOST certainly does in this case. I am aware im taking the unpopular opinion here. Sadly, im sure people exist who dislike this casting due to their racism. I dislike it because it's a big monkey wrench in our story. Corlys Velaryon is not just some side dude who they can take liberties with.. He AND his race are pivotal to the story and here's why. He is the father of Laenor Velaryon, who is Rhaenyra's first husband and is supposed to have fathered her first 3 boys. The paternity of these kids is important to the Dance and it depends on who you ask whether Laenor or Breakbones actually is their father. The Greens use this as evidence for their claim. Here's our first issue. There can be no question of paternity with this Corlys. With Laenor, the kids will be mixed race, and with Breakbones not. Not exactly a daddy controversy. Next, you claim we don't have any physical description. Yes and no. Maybe George didn't go into detail about his eye color, and how his hair falls and what color it is and if he likes lemon cakes. But he certainly lets you know if someone is westerosi, or quartheen, or dothraki or what have you. Corlys is valyrian, from valyria, his name is even velaryon! I dont see how else George can make this clearer. The Velaryons are not dragon riders but they are just as valyrian as the Targs. We know what valyrians look like. You said they aren't white and showed a lineup of white targaryens? Lets also be clear that Valryia was not a melting pot as you say. New York, Los Angeles, these are melting pots. People of different races living and working together, a community.. Valyria was a slave city..as in nobles/elites and then their slaves, not peers in any way..separate..no melting. Remember, the Targs dont even want to breed outside their own family. They view many proud and noble houses of Westeros as less than fit to consort with. You think they're getting jiggy with their slaves?? Not a chance, especially back in the day in actual valyria. There's a rumor Corlys fathered Addam of Hull as well. Again, I dont care one bit about someone's complexion but when we have a story seeped in genetics and heredity, you can't do this. Its not about racism or gatekeeping fantasy, its about the showrunners having their shit together. I dont know about everyone else but I'm fresh off seeing the series I love get shat on because the writers couldn't be bothered to put in the effort. This casting is a huge loose end and a part of me is nervous that this new show is already going down the path of GoT. Its not that I want Corlys white, I want a story that works.
Addam of Hull and his brother were actually described in the books as totally Valyrian-looking,they are several images leaked who actually shows that Corlys kids are also black,and some black Velaryons are around as well,so that's not even a recast about Corlys but the entire Velaryon family,which hurt the story itself as Rhaenyra and Daemon are part Velaryon as well If you want my opinion,this show is going totally political and woke,Corlys the single black noble in a white continent is going to side with Rhanerya for women's rights and empowerement against the evil white supremacist misogynist Daemon's party,literally the Greens are the evil while the Blacks are the good side,literally left versus right And that girl actually got it wrong,as Velaryons are actually Dragonriders,they just didn't had Dragons when they left Valyria before the Targs,but their bloodline allows them to ride Dragons,and that's exactly what happened in this story
@@ardinsiga6744 not only Adam velaryon but also Laenor has those classic valyrian looks. Thats my fear, that politics or incompetence(again) will derail this whole thing. Maybe the showrunners are so woke that they didn't want to have a faction called the blacks be all white people.
You brought the juice and the facts … and I’m so so so glad that you put some people in their place with this video !! Hopefully they sit down and shut up now 🔥💪🏻
Girl! You said it plain and simple! I wanted to slap you a high five! I watch all your stuff and never comment but I think you are always spot on and I had to today! Thank you!
The books never said Valaryons are white , true , but we know that Valaryons are cousins to the Tageryians and have the same origin to old Valeria , they are the same race the same nation , so how is it possible that the same race some of them are black and some white ? They should either be all black or all white , they could've made any other house bkack
If you have some insecurity about a fictional character.. You have some inner demons to deal with..People are soft and get upset about a character that never exist..
Your reasons for the casting aren't actually facts its Exactly just your opinion which is 100% fine. Doesn't make other people who don't agree or have a different opinion about the casting even regarding race are wrong. Opinion is yours and yours alone right or wrong doesn't matter. In my mind from the book fire and blood the sea snake is fairskin but i don't care what skin color or race he is in the show.
@@GrayArea Read more carefully I'm not talking about the book. I'm talking about your opinion and others opinions about the color of sea snakes skin people can imagine whatever color they want if it's not what they expected and their upset about it doesn't mean your opinion proves them wrong. Stop looking for conflict.
Thank you. I’ll admit when I first saw it I thought “this wasn’t how I imagined he’d look” but I had the same problem with Jon snow, Cersei Lannister and of course Rickon and bran and robb. Why did no one freak out they didn’t have the Tully hair and eyes? That was truly breaking with the book lore. So it’s not how I imagined Corlys. But I’m sure I’ll come to love his performance all the same. As long as he’s a good actor and portrays the character well, I’m happy.
I've very disappointed not in any particular side of this argument I'm disappointed that cultural and political issues are being dragged into a franchise that I love. Please people this show and the books are and escape for alot of people! I keep up with politics and what going on in the main stream but the world of a song of ice and fire is one of my escapes from those things when they stress me out. I will say I think the guy playing the character looks BADASS and I'm very excited for his performance. I also will say I do disagree with companies putting minorities into rolls just to try and show how "woke" they are especially when the actor isn't a very good performer or you can just tell the character is filler. I don't think this is one of those scenarios tho... With all that being said I hope we can put this behind us and let the excitement and anticipation for this new series bring us all back together!
@@kennymarket2428 because it's a trash, according to this logic all Targaryens should have been black. Why? Because Aegon the Conqueror was the son of Velaryon!
Besides the fact that it makes completely sense. It's also a badass decision! Corlys will be one of my FAVORITE characters this season and beyond! They still gave him silver hair! Love it so much!
@grayarea THEY CAST SALADOR SAAN AS A BLACK GUY WHO IN THE BOOKS IS OF VALERIAN DECENT AND NO BODY SAID SHIT ! So there you go some ppl are just stupid 🖤the video gray
Damn.... well said, well played. I would do almost anything ('anything' loosely defined, haha) to be able to discuss, debate, and maybe even collaborate on some project in the future! You have the most appropriate, proportionate, empirical, and educated traits/qualities. I genuinely believe you have what it takes to be a substantial, influential author (ESPECIALLY if it has anything to do with fantasy/high fantasy). Real talk! 😉
Why not in original black fantasy stories? Where the focus are these characters and cultures rather than reaching and interpreting established characters as black when they're race isn't mentioned? There are plenty of black in fantasy already you just need to read them. Mind you many of these are getting tv and film adaptations, HBO and GRRM are adapting Who Fears Death. Charles R. Saunders Imaro series Book 1 Imaro Book 2 Imaro: Quest for Cush Book 3 Imaro: The Trail of Bohu Book 4 Imaro: The Naama War Nyumbani Tales Dossouye duology Book 1 Dossouye Book 2 Dossouye: The Dancers of Mulukau Abengoni: First Calling N.K Jemisin The Inheritance Trilogy Book 1 The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms Book 2 The Broken Kingdoms Book 3 The Kingdom of Gods The Dreamblood Duology Book 1 The Killing Moon Book 2 The Shadowed Sun The Broken Earth Book 1 The First Season Book 2 The Obelisk Gate Book 3 The Stone Sky Marlon James The Dark Star Trilogy Book 1 Black Leopard Red Wolf Book 2 Moon Witch, Spider King(yet to be released) Book 3 The Boy and the Dark Star (yet to be released) Tomi Adeyemi Legacy of Orisha Book 1 Children of Blood and Bone Book 2 Children of Virtue and Vengeance Book 3 ??? Book 4 ??? Book 5 ??? Evan Winters The Burning Book 1 The Rage of Dragons Book 2 The Fires of Vengeance Book 3 The Lord of Demons (2022) Book 4??? Nnedi Okorafor Who Fears Death The Book of the Phoenix Binti Trilogy Book 1 Binti Book 2 Home Book 3 The Night Masquerade Ataka Witch Zahrah the Windseeker Rena Barron Last Witch Doctor trilogy Book 1 Kingdom of Souls Book 2 Reaper of Souls Book 3 ??? Maya and the rising Dark Antoine Bandele Tales of Esowon series The Kishi Sky Pirate Chronicle Book 1 By Sea & Sky Book 2 Of Ruin & Silk book 3 For Code & Honor (yet to be released) TJ Young & the Orishas Book 1 The Gatekeeper's Staff (yet to be released) An Orisha tale Book 1 Will of the Mischief Maker Milton J. Davis Changa's Safari series Griots: A Sword and Soul Anthology Fallen Meji Duology Eda Blessed: A Ki Khanga Adventure Priestess of NKu: A Ki Khanga Adventure Amber series Book 1 Amber and the hidden city Book 2 Amber and the enchanted sword From Here to Timbuktu The Makurian (out 2021) Tochi Onyebuchi Beasts made of Night Crown of Thunder Suyi Davies Okungbowa Godhunter Son of the Storm Anthony Kwamu Timbuktu Chronicles: Aida and the Chosen Soldier Gregory Walker Shades of Memnon series Book 1 The African warrior of the Trojian war Book 2 Ra Force Rising Book 3 African Atlantis Unbound E.O. Odiasa and K.N Pumpuni The Last Warrior King Book 1 A Cry to War Book 2 A Dance For The Gods
@@chrischoward9108 if a given author doesn't have many or any poc characters in his or her writing then oh well leave their work be doesn't matter how popular. It's like with LOTR it doesn't need diverse characters Tolkien didn't bother to add any don't change his vision its not necessary especially when we have our own. Instead look to original fantasies with diversity and or centered on poc like the ones I've listed. And it doesn't cause an uproar for example if Stormlight Archive was to get an adaptation no one can bitch about some of the major characters in the story's lore being black because they are! Same goes for some of the protagonists they're not all white. In The First Law Trilogy there is a black mage or wizard character and his apprentice would be brown or olive skinned, again adapting this and showing these characters as they are in the books won't bother anyone and if it does clearly the fools weren't fans of the books or weren't paying attention. The uproar is usually caused when they tokenize, shoe horn or race swap characters, actions which aren't needed. The Witcher series is the best example they ruined the worldbuilding and lore by not sticking to the book description of the demographics and characters. With the assistance of the author they could have brought new characters who were poc and made it make sense but thet chose the easy route.
@@admirekashiri9879 This video we are commenting under gives an ample amount of evidence to defend the character’s ethnicity. I’m trying to figure out why it is a problem. This is not a race swap or a token situation. Just because most people thought that this character was white doesn’t mean that’s what it was. Lol
"This is fantasy we can do what ever the fuck we want", is not the mindset i hope the show writes had 😂 it does make sense that originating from a very warm climate, would mean that they are black of skin. I must admit reading the books i imagined him as a white skinned person, mostly because house Velaryon have been interbreeding with many other houses in Westeros since the doom of Valyria. But also because, it's my impression from reading GRRM, that when a character has dark skin, it is pointed out like Jalabhar Xho or Taena of Myr, "Sandy Dornishmen" and "Salty Dornishmen". Hinting that this is not common in Westeros, besides in parts of Dorne. Casting The Sea Snake as black does however keep up with HBO's previous casting choices as Salladhor Saan (also a Valyrian) was also casted as black. I don't remember people went off the rails back then. In the end it mostly matters to me if he portraits the character correct. I would find it inappropriate if it was clearly stated that he was light of skin and HBO ignored this, but this is not the case and I'm looking forward to the show airs.
They didn't mind Salladhor Saan because he was a minor character from no major house. But since Corlys is a major character from a prominent house, they're mad. In their minds, only whites should hold power.
He is so friggin awesome! 😍 I'm so glad he is black because that is how he is supposed to be. He is my favourite character and I can't wait for season 2.
But does he have purple eyes? I wanna see some purple eyes on this godamn show
I wish they'd at least CGI the purple eyes.
I know it can be done. They did it for Vivian Lee in Gone With the Wind. It ain't new tech, folks.
RIGHT!
Purple eyes and the Distinctive Silver and Golden color of the valerian hair
Yes ! Purple eyes!
I subscribed to your channel as soon as I heard your voice, because it was familiar to me ☺️ Also the FIRST female voice depicting the show vs the books on TH-cam so I was just immediately interested. Thanks for this video. Sad thing that “they” have taken so many roles from ethnic people of all walks, and have remained unbothered, but this! Lol this particular character has caused an outrage. Ignorant hypocrites indeed. Great video! All of your videos actually. You are now my numéro uno GOT TH-cam channel to watch.
the sorce material is based in europe how in the 7 gates to hell did they take "so many roles" from ethnic people of all walks when there wernt many black people from the storys becouse news flash the "ethnic people " of europe get this you might be shocked WERE WHITE PEOPLE
I saw a really cool video by David Lightbringer which explained that it is completely within the realms of possibility within the world for the Velaryons and Corlys in specific to be black, perhaps of Summer Islander descent or even descended from one of the cultures which lived in Valyria prior to the destruction etc. I honestly am excited to see this show, and actually very excited to see Corlys and the Velaryons since they are one of my favorite groups and characters. But yeah, the idea of Corlys being black is completely within the realm of possibility and actually only makes sense due to the cultural mixing which would naturally take place in trade hubs and such. Great video from you as well. I see no issue with him being black.
That video sent me here. 😀
Thank you! I've been part of the group holding the opinion you're arguing against and your preposition has changed my mind! And by that enhanced my joy of the show by removing an issue that I had with it. Again, thank you!
Damn! Sis, you broke this down perfectly. What will the haters say when the show is a success? 🤷🏾
Прошло много времени и я могу отметить, что хейтеры скажут, что шоу полностью тащат на себе белые актёры ┐(´ー｀)┌
The way you just read them for filth 😂😂😂😂 I’m smiling ☺️
The Valyrians were not all white. If House Velaryon is black however, and we ignore the points that they have been in white majority Westeros for a very long time, or how Princess Daella (who is half Valaryon through her grandmother Alyssa 2 of her children) cried when she saw a summer islander who was visiting the red keep because she'd never seen a black person (this is canon). It still excludes the glaring fact that if in this how, House Velaryon is black, then it makes ZERO sense for Viserys and Rhaenyra's Targaryen branch to be white. So no, Corlys being black doesn't make sense and that's not filth its fact
@@wherermytacos5903 you’re mad 😂😂😂😂🤣 stay mad bozo
@@marleymarsss no rebuttal then? very telling
@@wherermytacos5903 Lmao imagine your rebuttal to a coherent and structured point being “Durrr Bozo 🤪”
@BlackVenus you might suggest that @where R my tacos looks at Prince Harry and Princess Meghan for an actual present-day visual of how that can work 😎
You are a real treasure. I’m so happy to have found you❣️Job well done🔥🔥
They have a unique house imo, i like the ocean theme. The iron islands had a octopus, while in reality they should of been a crab, they werent really deepwater sailors they were offshore raiders. The Velaryon fleet is like a deepwater navy, but i think the summer islanders have the best mastery of that.
It does makes sense for Velaryons to be different from the Westerosi. They are the most well travelled Valyrians family. They did not need to keep their blood to be pure . Its actually advantageous to have relatives in summer isles and other Essos cities
yes it makes sense for them to different ...why...because they are based on the historical analogy of the vikings.....who have what stereotypical traits?!
@@KingMinosxxvi as far as i know the vikings did not come from an ancient lost civilization, there isn't really a historical analogy for house velaryon. the iron islands are inspired by vikings. as pointed out in the video, valyria is inspired by rome and there were plenty of non-whites in rome, especially people from northern africa and western asia, some became emperors. i actually like the decision to portray the velaryons this way, it visually distinguishes them from both targaryens and westerosi. and the actor who plays corlys does a great job
@@NR-fd9wv Yes there were influential people from north Africa and western Asia, but not sub-Saharan Africa and not part of the main Roman patrician families. These people are supposed to be closely related to the Valerian Targaryens. no patrician Roman family would interbreed like that until they are unrecognizable. And remember the platinum blonde hair and violet eyes are a result of the pure inbreeding, so it wouldn’t make sense for mixed Targaryen’s to have those features. Every time in the story that a valerian breeds with a non-valerian they lose those features.
@@JokerMxyzptlk the fictional world is different from ours, rome and valyria are not the same. summer islands for example are closer to valyria than sub sahara africa to rome and easier accessible. the roman empire never expanded far enough to reach sub saharan africa. there is also no source that ever mentioned romans wanting to maintain any specific ethnic features, so thats just made up. the patricians cared for their status as nobles, so they married members from other patrician families, but that had nothing to do with ethnicity or race, which are concepts that were unknown to romans, they distinguished themselves from others by culture. the patrician families were powerful during the roman republic, but became relatively insignificant in the empire. so that comparison doesn't make much sense, and even if it would, the velaryons are specifically said not to be one of the ruling families of valyria anyway. during the roman empire families from different parts of the empire became powerful and people from europe, western asia and northern africa didn't all look the same. to call them influential is an understatement, when you consider that several emperors came from those families, they became more powerful than the patrician families.
also, you are confusing targaryen and valyrian.
the eye- and haircolour is not a targaryen feature, but a valyrian, which is mentioned various times in the books. it is not caused by inbreeding, the targs started inbreeding after the doom, when the other families that had dragon riders and most valyrian families were extinct, these features already existed at that time. it is even mentioned that the same features are still found among the populations of lys and volantis, which are descendents of valyria. and the features don't always get lost, there are several bastards who have these features and only have one parent of valyrian descent. some of them should appear on the show later in the story.
@@NR-fd9wv valyerions are a RACE of people and the Targaryens chose to in breed themselves in order to keep their racial characteristics pure. and they were fine with breeding with valyron family because they shared the same characteristics. I have a feeling if the valyreon family had black skin the Targaryen‘s wouldn’t have wanted to mix with them because they were obsessed with their features and their blood. There’s no evidence at all of any Valerian‘s being anything other than white to go with the blonde hair and violet eyes. People have to stop trying to shove things into a story just because a story doesn’t say that it didn’t happen, Or didn’t exist. Maybe Peter Pan really learned how to fly from a gay black woman who he met before Tinker Bell right? I mean the story doesn’t say that didn’t happen! If any Valyrian‘s interbred with other people they would no longer be valerian by race but perhaps by social status they could be. So if valerian had bred with Black people from summer isles they would’ve lost their violet eyes and blonde hair. Now overtime those black descendants could keep breeding with valerian and bring back those features, but they would then not keep the black skin. Unless we are saying that in this world black skin somehow works differently than the genetics we know. Also Rome did have a trading Netwerk with sub-Saharan Africans for things like ivory and turtle shells. please don’t be a deliberately obtuse about this, we all know that valerian‘s are a single race and even if they were a multi ethnic society due to the reach of their power ( kind of like Rome or Venice) that doesn’t change that the Valerien people look the same. The idea that they traveled to a more primitive place to create a family with Black people and somehow kept the black skin while maintaining the blonde hair and violet eyes, Jesus come on we all know this is made up for identity politics sake. George RR Martin did not intend these characters to be anything other than the image of valerian we have come to expect. i’m OK with the idea of newly conquered people in the valerian empire becoming prominent families because that did happen in the Roman empire and even with the general Mediterranean area during the Venetian supremacy. but then they would not have the ultra recessive traits of valyereons along with the ultra dominant black skin of Islanders. There’s nothing in the source material to explain how that could possibly happen. this is true of all empires and new people who are enveloped by them. New prominent families can arise and interbreeding can happen but then they won’t have the extreme features of the original stock. look we all know what this is. It’s a response to Black Lives Matter. It’s just the morality of the moment controlling the story. These characters were never meant to be black. There’s nothing in the source material That would point to the extreme stretching we are trying to do to explain why they could be black. it’s just anytime something isn’t explicitly stated, sub-Saharan African people are trying to wedge themselves in there as if they were there all along. So why not Chinese or Japanese or Byzantine? If we’re going to play it loose with the source material and fill in the gaps with specious retconning, then why black? There were many prominent Romans from North Africa but they weren’t black in the sense that a sub-Saharan African is black. They do not have the same features. All the prominent people of the Roman Empire were from advanced civilizations around the Mediterranean, not sub-Saharan Africa. Sub-Saharan Africans are always trying to include themselves in the accomplishments of North Africa just because some not all but some North Africans have darker skin. Septimus Severus has many pieces of art and descriptions of him and he definitely does not look like a sub-Saharan African. He may have been just a little bit darker than northern Europeans kind of like white Algerian who has a bit swarthy-er of a complexion. So again, why black? why would it be the least developed people on the planet? Why wouldn’t it be another great society or civilization. Why is this amazing character who is supposedly up for grabs because his skin color is never explicitly stated, going to sub-Saharan African people rather than any other more deserving or desiring people? Why not Mexican? It’s because in this moment promoting Black people across the board is all the rage.
Black or white who cares. Man can act
Well said, I love Game of Thrones. Binged watched it in 2 weeks. When I heard House of the Dragons was coming out and it was a black character, I was skeptical. Usually they love doing black men wrong in shows like this. But he easily became one of the most loved characters for me by episode 2.
I've read Fire and Blood twice and I don't actually recall a real description about Corlys the sea snake. I think people are twisting the fact that the Valaryons and Targaryens are two seperate peoples it was the Targaryens who usually get described as very pale skin not Valaryons or other people's from the DOOMED Valyria.
Why does this casting choice have to get so many people worked up? It really shouldn't be divisive it's a television show can we just get excited for something we all clearly share and that's passion for this incredible world of a song of ice and fire? Who cares about skin color. Nobody cares about the color of dragons!!?? Why then about people? Waste of energy just enjoy the product!
"Get woke go broke" crowd always goes berserk when POC and fantasy genre mix.
The families intermarried a lot and have the same origin so it would be logical that they look the same, also if you know the story its dumb because people speculated about the parents of his grandkids in this case it would be obvious. And on a sidenote: id be pissed if they changed dragon colors just imagine balerion the pink dread
Вы серьёзно? Во-первых, Веларионы не редко вступали в браки с Таргариенами (у того же Эйгона Завоевателя мать была из дома Веларион), сын Корвиса так и вовсе женат на той, что могла стать королевой. Веларионы не могут быть темнокожими. Во-вторых, каким это образом цвет кожи человека связон с цветом кожи драконов? И раз так не важно, какого цвета персонаж, так может мы просто налепим на персонажей джинсы, солнцезащитные очки и заставим его реп читать?
Ну а что? Это же ФеНТеЗи!!!
I admit, I’ve recently gotten ASOIAF fatigue. After years of devouring content from creators across many platforms, I woke up one day, and decided I didn’t really care to spend my thoughts on theories about Westeros. However, this video just brought me back! Way to go Gray! I can’t wait for the show, and I have no problem at all with the casting. My worries revolve around the plot, writing, and acting. Don’t let them screw this up like Dave’s did with the last season of GOT. It’s a great story.
Valyria was a melting pot in the sense that the massive lands of the freehold was. The thing is, the Valyrian nobility was likely super homogenous. In Volantis, they erected a wall to keep people with “dirty blood” out.
Then good a Black Man is the perfect casting bc our blood lines are nothing but perfection. 🙌🏾🙅🏾♀️
Valkerians are black atlantic
Genetics and skin colour are not necessary the same thing. The people of Solomon islands look black but have blonde hair. There are black people who inherited a gene that cause their hair to be red. Where did that come from?.
@@sophiawilson8696 that's why they should have cast a Pacific Islander in this role instead.
Valeria/Atlantis was a blacks civilisation
Also ghiis which is egypt was black
Gray, to me you are one of the greatest orators i have heard till date.the voice modulations that u so easily bring in while paraphrasing and the excitement that u build up till you reach the climax of your videos has never failed to pump me up for the story more and more. ngl sometimes when i am agitated i play your vidoes to hear u read an excerpt, it is so damn soothing. if i am ever asked how might angels sound i am gonna say without thinking twice like u reading game of thrones. i love you and your videos!!!! never stop please!! again amazing, just amazing!!!
and just adding to the topic of this video i just dont know what exactly makes peopel racist like how? people are people, how does colour, race even matters? its will never stop baffling me. to me it feels like the same thing as humans seeing our species as the most evolved when the only thing we have evolved disproportionately is our stupid damn egoes, racist people just take it to another level. people are people, humanity is all about being kind and accepting not being divisive and ugly.
and i cant stress how much i have loved your videos and you angelic voice from the very first video!! GOD BLESS YOU!! peace
It was said that when Corlys died, the great wild dragon Cannibal flew overhead. Some say it was just cause he was looking for a meal, but I like to think he DID bond Cannibal. IMAGINE A SCENE WHERE CORLYS BONDS WITH THE *THE* CANNIBAL
This is my first video of yours I’ve watched. & I’m so happy to say that I’ll be here forever. Thank you for saying the truth!
I gotta say, as a mixed raced Guy myself when I heard the casting I was a little dissapointed and concerned lorewise. Not because of the "VaLyRiAnS aRe WhItE" thing but because of Rhaenyra's children and Laenor Velaryon. I do like seing my race represented in media but I want it to feel natural and not pushed and at first thats what it felt like. But after I saw that they actually have silver hair I am so relieved you cant imagine. Not only do Rhaenyra's children make sense again but now I'm actually really excited to see some mixed race Valyrians in Laenor and Laena Vaelaryon. It's like seeing how I would look like as a Valyrian haha. I already have a cosplay Idea for the next Con lmao "If Laenor Velaryon had gotten a grip". It can also revive the whole Dragonblood discussion tbh. If the Valyrians infacted were a multiethnic people, like the Roman Empire they are based on, WHAT the hell did they do or what kind of Bloodpact did they do that might involve them bonding with Dragons more easy. And was that the reason why their Hair turned white and why they had to marry brother to sister. Was that like the consequence of their ritual or smth. Aaaaanyway, since the pictures came out I am actually really hyped and excited. So just two cents from a mixed race person. I feel like a lot of the discourse on this topic were people who arent black or mixed speaking on our behalf, not saying that they shouldnt speak on the matter at all or that you did that. I just took one glance at Twitter recently and saw a lot of none mixed or black people calling eachother names *sigh*
PS:
I'm just gona leave this here. By all the Laws of Andal and Valyrian Primogeniture, was House Velaryon robbed from the throne, THEY are the rightful heirs...I said what I said
Samee..and black and this is weird
@@patb2582 it’s weird people have an issue, yeah.
@@joshuaadams1178 It's not weird that people have an issue. People are racist, plain and simple. The irony is their aversion to having a black character in these roles is because they themselves like - subconsciously or otherwise - seeing themselves portrayed, yet lack the self awareness to understand why minorities also want to see themselves onscreen. in any case, GRRM is an Exec Producer, he can change anything at any time and it will be accurate because he's the literal source of all canon, if he doesn't say it's wrong then who are these smoothbrains to question it.
@@Red1Green2Blue3 There is actually a plot issue caused by changing the race of corlys that will have to be written around. Rhaenera targaryen and laenor velaryon both had typical dragonlord looks (fair skin, purple eyes, silver-gold hair). Their sons Jace, luke, and Joffrey had brown eyes and hair like their biological father from house strong. The whole realm suspected they were bastards due to their looks differing from their valyrian parents. If corlys and laenor are black/mixed, this bastardry will not be apparent to the realm.
@@beastley4318 If you think any plot reason is behind this you're beyond naïve. See: every black actor cast in a major role where the fictional character formerly had white skin that has no impact on the plot.
In any case, GRRM has overseen this project, who are YOU or anyone else to say there is a plot issue if the literal originator doesn't think so.
Everything you said is so on point and I agree 100%, in fact, The Velaryons are gorgeous characters as well (Laena was one of the most beautiful characters and one of the most tragic losses and Baela and Rhaena both take after her beauty and composure). In the end, this worked out beautifully, Steve Toussaint is brilliant as Corlys and he and Rhaenys are the most ideal team couple.
I like the change. GRRM said he had an idea to make Valyrians black when he was first writing the series so it seems like it’s paying homage to that.
Скорее бедный дедуля прогибается под "объективную" критику "добрых" защитников в твитере.
@@mikltynyz4039 Come on, look where Valyria is. Same latitude as the Summer Isles. GRRM probably did consider it.
@@mikltynyz4039
He said that years ago, long before the “woke SJWs” took over Twitter.
@@maxb7163 then he stopped himself cuz making black people evil slavers was too much for his dragons and tits book. Not even him was that krazey
Unlike dumb and dumber who tried to pitch slave fan fiction to HBO with “confederate”
I honestly believe they did this because it will make it easier for new audiences to learn the difference between the Targaryens and the Velaryons. If they were all white haired, white skinned people then people would be really confused. It makes it so much simpler to understand who is who.
(And to get more ethnicity in the show because why not? Game of thrones the tv show never exclusively said that house Velaryon was all white lol. In fact they never mentioned them so... they can be whatever George likes).
Or they could have just hired him because he's a good actor. Why do black actors always need some other reason to be hired (increasing diversity, to show the audience something, being 'woke')? This assumption is racist in itself and is part of the problem.
@@Red1Green2Blue3 Okay first, did you even read my full message. I said it’s simply a great way to include diversity, I never spoke about his acting because I’ve never seen his acting. Have you?
Second, it’s obviously a change from the book than many are upset about (for no reason). I’m here to simply tell people it’s a great way to get representation into the show as well as making it easier or newer audiences to understand who is who.
Third, please don’t talk down to be about race before even asking what race I am myself. It’s just plain ignorant and rude.
Fourth, don’t come for someone that’s trying to help. Maybe you should use your time more wisely and actually @ someone that’s negatively impacting the series before it even began.
@@Red1Green2Blue3 So again, because he’s such a “good actor” what show or film has he been in? I’d love to watch...
@@Red1Green2Blue3 I’m clearly offering a different alternative than trying to be “woke”. It’s making the show easier for new viewers to understand. And one last time, ask what race I am next time...
@@joshuaadams1178 Yes, I did read it. And your type of answer is one of a long list of rationalising why a black or minority actor has been hired - other than them just being a good actor. White actors never need to have their hiring justified (based on their skin colour) and so you are applying a different, arbitrary, standard to black actors that is not applied to white actors - this is textbook racist thinking.
Side note: slow down and think before you post, there is absolutely no need to spam responses as you think of them.
I never have understood the backlash of casting a black actor for a character who is white like it doesn't matter the character is the character regardless of race. how people make it a big issue is fucking ridiculous
You are a Queen. Comprehensive, confident, and compelling. I loved this and look forward to more content!
I just wanna say your videos have helped to make me a true fan of the books and not just a poser fan of the shows. That's all. No caveat, no criticism whatsoever. You keep doin you boo boo.. I love it!
I don’t care if he’s Ibbenese, just be good. Season 8 has me very worried. I was excited when I saw the seahorse sigil. Very cool character.
I’m not worried at all. D&D are not involved, Martin has written the script, or heavily influenced it. Their best director Sapochnik, is one of the show runners, and ramin djwadi is returning to do the score. I know season 8 left a sour taste if people’s mouths, but people should give this a chance
Agreed
THANK YOU!!! I knew as soon as I saw the casting that racists people would have an issue with this. Too Damn Bad...don’t watch! You said what you said so they can Kick Rocks because this is your channel and who are they to challenge you?!!! Again, thank you!
YOU KEPT IT 100!!!
THIS IS FANTASY AND MORE PEOPLE SHOULD READ THE BOOKS!
you will enjoy the series as much as mistress Gray Area does.
I love that Gray Area commands the knowledge of this series like judges master the law.
THANK YOU GRAY AREA FOR EDUCATING THOSE WHO DO NOT READ OR ARE IGNORANT TO THE COCEPT OF FANTASY
( to bring social justice into this entertainment shows you how small some people are😕)
I had no idea there was any contention about casting Steve Toussaint as Corlys Velaryon.
IMO he is the most regal and interesting looking of the cast so far.
That discussion is hot and running since his announcement end of last year and their racism is showing. It is really ugly.
@@AysKuz wow...I had no idea.
I suppose I didn't really pay all that much attention to whether folks liked the casting when it was announced, figuring after GoT's ending it was inevitable that people would be overly critical.
But people being upset over the man's skin color in this casting just never crossed my mind.
@@UnBroken11100 The most discussed casting choice next to "Matt Smith and Emma D´Arcy are too ugly to be Daemon and Rhaenyra".
Yes he does look regal an looks like a commander
Let them cry. I’ll still be watching it as happily as ever 😊
Had to revisit this video after watching the first episode of House of the dragon. Thank you so much for this! no feelings, just facts. But they won’t hear you because their own bigotry won’t allow them to see anything other than white is right. So many of the men in these stories have children all over the map, but heaven forbid one of them is black.
They can believe dragons, dragon people, ice zombies and all other sorts of magic but black valyrians or even targaryen - too much!
Thank you... As if the Summer Islands are a part of Valyrias Maps and they didn't trade
I mean to be honest I think the original conception of corlys was him being the "traditional valerian look" if I'm not mistaken his descendant (or I assume is his descendant) in a song of ice and fire is described in looking like rhaegar by cersie and I can't confirm this without a shadow doubt but believe that corly's son is explicitly described as having blonde hair or something in those regards .
Sir the traditional valerian look applies to families who kept the blood line clear. House Velaryan was not one of those houses and they left valeria before the targs. It makes sense as he is probably part summer islander
His descendant was born more than a century after Corlys died, it is entirely possible for Aurane Waters (the descendant) to have light complexion.
@@alexone5045 but to say the valaryans in the occasions where their physical characteristics were described in the text weren't basically the targ look would just simply be false , earliest example would be Alyssa Velaryon (Jaehaerys mom) and latest would go all the way to the current timeline of the lore with Aurane Waters .
Its completely valid for people to assume they were always were faired haired , pale skin , purple eyed people and that includes the Sea snake , now we have some reasonable lore reasons why that might not always be The case like summer islander stuff
BUT it's wrong to say that the people who assumed that the valaryans always had the same ethnicity to that of a targaryen throughout their family tree is a unreasonable assumption to have when the text gave no other reason to think otherwise and in fact reinforced the idea with Aurane waters .
Don't even try to argue. I understand but it is useless.
@@MI3am keyword is "assume" .... so when facts are laid or alternative perspectives are laid, they should simply go with the flow and enjoy it, instead of making an issue of it... 😊
You lied at about 10 different points in a single video
@Silver Lady Well first she said she wasn't going to give opinions and that what she was about to say is objective facts then proceeded to immediately give opinion after opinion, also omitting facts in the lore that completely contradicted those opnions, ect.
@Silver Lady I posted that comment over a month ago, I'm not about to rewatch this gaslighting propaganda just to point out examples of what can easily be found throughout the entire video. The entire video is my example, all you need to know is valyrians are said to have specific features and to share them because they are a race, if you keep that one fact in mind while watching this video you understand exactly how and when she lied.
Y’all just be making shit up.. every point in this video was a FACT
@@TrollinFromFlask Does it really bother you that much that a fictional character (completely badass character I must say) that was made up in some man’s head, is not the race that you pictured? If you pictured the man white and in another form of media he is a different race then that is not our problem. If it bothers you that much then don’t watch the show then. No one is forcing you. If you’d rather not see a strong black man in a very important role kick ass and take names then don’t watch it. No harm done :)
@@HPfan153 It bothers me that the lore and logic of the story has been made inconsistent because of political issues that have nothing to do with the story.
Has nothing to do with what I think of a "strong black man" or whatever tf you're on, if that's your kink keep it to yourself dude I didn't even ask. My issue is about what does and doesn't make sense and why.
I am so loving his platinum dreads! I can’t wait for House of the Dragon!
I keep coming back to this video any time I need to refresh my arguing points to continue argue about my favorite lord of the seas, the sea snake. I will protect him till my last breath. this has turned out to be THE BEST casting of the show thus far. I am so happy to see diversity in westeros, it makes my soul happy.
Hermione is black, Batwoman is black, and now this guy, get with the times people. This is what's happening, and like this woman says, they can do whatever the fuck they want with the fiction they control.. 🙄
@Gregor Heisenhorn I'll be watching!! Cry harder buddy.
1st off: Go 'head Gray!!! ❤❤❤
As an American, I am a fan of British TV and film. One of the things I noticed is that they seem to cast whomever is best to play whatever. Once, I watched a movie with a bunch of Irish ladies as protagonists. In it, they showed everyone's home life. One of the women happened to have a black daughter. They never explained it or acknowledged it. The plot just went on. I loved it!
Why must anyone have to explain why they should be allowed to play in the same sandbox as the other kids? If you're different, why do you even need a "backstory"? If you're a baller, can't you just show up and play? It's all make-believe, so what's the big deal?
The showrunners don't seem to care too much & I'm here for it.
Besides, Steve and Eve are THAT power couple in HOT D. He's killing it in the role and their chemistry is off the charts.
the issue is that grrm has stated he builds charaters based off actual events and people blacks and the left are trying to erode white history both in movies and in real life
2 episodes down, and I’m obsessed with Corlys. This is one sexy character. Great casting.
The problem is the tokenization of traditionally white characters. I personally hate that stuff. Either create an Original blk character or just leave it alone. It’s like they don’t believe in black characters or something. I don’t like this hand me down or pity party bs.
This is a super awesome video. I'm glad that I landed on this channel.
Corlys’s daughters are beautiful. Love that silver white hair!
I have a genuine question for people. Would it be okay to race swap a book character who is described as a POC in a tv show or film and make them white? Of course not. Then why is it accepted as long as it’s the other way around? The hypocrisy is unreal. I want book characters to be cast to resemble what they are described as in the book. Whatever race they are described as in the source material/ book then that’s what they should look like.
They did on Game of thrones. They swapped Alayaya with Ros. Alayaya was black, Ros was white.
@@GrayArea yeah, but what about Saladhor Saan? Xaro Xoan Daxos? Talissa? All these were originally portrayed as white but they were cast as black. That’s 3 for 1 In favor of black casting! What say ye to that?
@@GrayArea That's a completely different character.
@@eccemono6534 you’re right; it’s a different character, but they serve the same function in the story: as Cersei’s collateral against Tyrion as cover for Shae, which was her point. To which I point to Talissa, a character with the same function as Jeyne Westerling, but who is an entirely different person. Whereas, Xaro and Sallador were just flat raceswapped.
That historically happened all the time in movies and shows. But y’all are angry that a character was race swapped and made a black Valyrion’s. We also have black Valyrion’s in the books.
The books never actually say there isn't a race of flying pigs in Westeros. In fact, there's a coat of arms with a winged pig. So we can't rule out winged pigs in Westeros. That's the level of argumentation I am seeing on my timeline today. - Linda Antonsson, coauthor of World of Ice and Fire.
She’s a known racist and doesn’t know what she’s talking about. She didn’t even get the history of the dance right on Twitter.
@@GrayArea if she is a racist (a label Americans tend to very easily pin on each other) then what does that tell you about GRRM?
He's working with her, not with you or with me. If someone does not agree with this casting for Corlys that does not automatically make him a racist.
I am first to say how D&D were a-holes towards most of their non-white characters. Those who weren't villainized, did not get any form of happy end. Grey Worm was last to remain standing, but that voyage to Naath was just one more spit D&D make on the lore.
That being said, I also know that this cast of Corlys is motivated with diversity of the cast because GOT had Essos, from Braavos to Qarth. HOTD is based in Westeros, a racially uniformed continent (except to some extent Dorne) but again, that is Martin. He wrote the damn books. He placed only white and olive skinned people in Westeros. He made Valyrians to look as they look, with their pale white skin and silver hair and purple eyes (which we will never get onscreen), he wrote how one Targaryen princess was scared beyond her wits seeing a Summer Islander.
Not Antonsson, not me, not anyone of those YT users who don't like or are skeptical about this show version of Corlys. All George. And now, as we are in 2021.
HBO must adjust their adaptation to the moment in which we are living.
It's simple as that.
@@Harahvaiti comparing black people to winged pigs is pretty racist. I wonder if George even works with her anymore.🤷♀️
@@GrayArea I didn't see it that way, she used that parallel to point out how theory of multiracial Valyria makes no sense. Since winged pigs and black Valyrians (and white Valyrians too) are all fictional, how can you insult something fictional by comparing it with something else also fictional? It's like saying how all Dornish or Meereenese are goatf..kers. What is racist in that? They don't exist. It was not an insult to Spanish (where Dorne scenes were filmed) or Croatians (where Meereen scenes were filmed)
@@Harahvaiti same could be said for race swapping a fictional character. If it’s fictional why does it matter? Just read her tweets. She just said she doesn’t care about George’s opinions on his own damn books.
"Martin describes members of House Velaryon as having Targaryen-ish features, so we’re likely talking blonde hair, purple eyes and pale skin." I feel certain that such a distinguishing feature difference would be mentioned in his description. That's just logical in all thoughts and aspects. It's not about racism in any way (at least for me and most others I'd presume), it's about portraying the characters as they're expected to be from the books. When they're not, it usually is only done for diversity’s sake. You're right that he wasn't described in the books however, when the creator of the "fantasy" world explains that they're basically identical to the Targaryens, it's pretty apparent what they all look like. It's also pretty clear what the people of a neighboring country would look like when they're in the exact same part of the world. Why would one country be full of pale as a 👻 folk and the other have the complete opposite skin shade??? 🤔 Even in fantasy worlds, that makes no sense WSO...
Thank you. People always assume it’s about racism, when it’s really not.
Where are you going with this? Targaryan features aren't always dominant look at Balor Breakspear, The daughter of Rhegar and the dornish princess and Orys Baratheon also claimed some Targaryan blood.
Also, House Velaryon is also known to intermingle.
in the main tv series, several prominent characters weren't portrayed correctly such as the Stark kids. Don't remember any outrage about that. Other relevant plot points were dropped such as Tyrion's nose not being cut off, Dany/Cersei not becoming totally bald. Tyene being salty dornish.
Now a black man shows up and there isn't some sort of race thing going on.
@@whitediamond133 you answered your own ? Dorn has darker skinned people. So of course there's a high chance of their child having similar traits of the father... ugh... The CREATOR stated they have Targaryen-ish features. So unless he was keeping it a secret that they had similar features other than their skin, it's apparent what they look like. Otherwise he could have just said they have white hair too. How can this be debated???
You are pointing out minor differences, again minor differences. How is this relevant? They didn't completely change the race or gender of anyone in the series, that's the topic of discussion. If you truly believe that such a distinguishing difference would not be mentioned by the creator of the series, you're naive.
In fact he confirmed that they aren't black:
"Right from the start I wanted the Targaryens, and by extension the Valryians from whom they were descended, to be a race apart, with distinctive features that set them apart from the rest of Westeros, and helped explain their obsession with the purity of their blood. To do this, I made a conventional ‘high fantasy’ choice, and gave them silver-gold hair, purple and violet eyes, fine chiseled aristocratic features. That worked well enough, at least in the books (on the show, less so).
But in recent years, it has occurred to me from time to time that it might have made for an interesting twist if instead I had made the dragonlords of Valyria… and therefore the Targaryens… black. Maybe I could have kept the silver hair too, though… no, that comes too close to ‘dark elf’ territory, but still… if I’d had dark-skinned dragonlords invade and conquer and dominate a largely white Westeros… though that choice would have brought its own perils. The Targaryens have not all been heroic, after all… some of them have been monsters, madmen, so…
Well, it’s all moot. The idea came to me about twenty years too late."
@@justindwyer324 if you reverse the colors in that statement twitter would have raged that sounds very racist it sounds like something he was forced to say to appease someone
Ok how about this, if (TALENTED) black actors get cast as characters that you assumed were white because the creators purposely wanted to diversify the cast, who cares? WHO CAAAAAARES god the constant whining about fantasy tv shows with black people in it is SO annoying. Just don’t watch the show if it’s that important to you. The only reason someone should be upset at a casting choice is if the actor SUCKS.
“But you would care if a white actor was cast to play a black/Asian/Latino character.” Yes because many times in those stories the experience of being a minority is pertinent to those stories. I thought I should just mention that too before someone brought it up 🙄
Am i like the only one who thought this was a genious idea and opens up so much more of the Valryian mythology/lore in this series? Plus HE IS AN AMAZING ACTOR! I cannot wait to return to westeros (“ even tho i really wanted that long night show this ( The Dance of the Dragons”) was my other top choice
I am legit just standing clapping this whole video... you have always been one my favorite voices in the fandom MJ! Keep being real!
He will probably become the most beloved character when the show finally does come out
Everyone else in the dance is insane lol
Of course no
Meh I think that daemon or aemond will be my favourites
The shittiest and most forced charcter in the show a hellish mix of arya and sansa with a dick and extra melanin
Preach queen preach! Sorry I’m late to watching this but damn this vid is fire AF. You’re 100% correct A black Corlys will work out fine in fact it might work out a lot better than ppl think. Laena and Laenor will be half black so what will happen is Jac, Luc, and Joff will be viewed as bastards because there’s not a hint of Corlys or Laenor seen in them as in they look white as rice lmao.
Furthermore, considering Baela and Rhaena(Daemon’s kids with Laena) will also look mixed they could use that to give further credence to the bastard rumors like, “Why is It Laenor’s kids look completely different from Laena’s kids even though they both have Targaryen and Velaryon parents.?” 🧐
Now obviously in real life there would be plenty of logical explanations for why they look the way they do but we all know GRRM does genetics different in ASOIAF. So going that route would pretty much have the same effect as in the source material the show would just be taking a slightly different route to get there lol.
@Dexy Nash Cowards who talk shit online without the conviction to even show their face. Gawd....Puke. Keep it moving incel.
@Dexy Nash And you’re such a cowardly incel it’s hilarious. Like I said keep it moving mr. tough guy with no face.
😂😂😂😂
@Dexy Nash the more you type the more you’re proving my point incel keep beating your chest from the safety of your no face avi. ☠️☠️☠️☠️
@Dexy Nash lmao you're so triggered by what he said.
@Dexy Nash "tour boyfriend" lmao What!! You're clearly triggered by this and crying.
Thank you Gray for this video. I've said and defended this casting from the start. I tell whom ever has a problem with it to contact GRRM because I'm sure they asked him his thoughts. I could be wrong, but I'm not lol
Go woke go broke
@@docvaliant721 Go woke make money
@@v78michel It doesn't rhyme nor does it work.
@@scaryblackrifle1481 Go woke make money
@@docvaliant721 biggest HBO premier of all time 😂
Thank god the LOTR trilogy was made 20 years ago, otherwise we would have this lady saying why Leslie Jones as Galadriel makes sense
Pop Yo Shhhhht Grey!!!! Excellent points and I just subscribed your other breakdowns are just as spot on as this one and I'm here for all of it.
To be honest I don’t care I just want it to be a good series like the rest of GoT. If he’s a good actor and fits the role good Im all for it
I agree, because even some of the casting to GOT wasn't 100% accurate and look how amazing all of their performances were. I feel like they wouldn't cast a black actor as Corlys unless they knew he could portray the character well. Also, the Targaryens have been practically everywhere throughout the world so him being black isn't too far fetched either.
Are we pretending season 8 didn't happen?
@@Heavygusto Obviously
@@Heavygusto season 7 too.
@@kennymarket2428 season 6 too
I'll tell you what pisses me off about this ..is that G RR Martin is yet again working on something else that ain't WINDS
Yep, and now we know why we got a World Book and Fire and Blood instead of Winds or some D & E's. Worst of all, the accounts in F & B are intentionally unreliable so George *has to help them write this.* Cause you know, it's not like the last show didn't cause him to piss away a decade and lose any chance of finishing book 7. Now we'll probably never get Winds either. Let alone another D & E. Before this I thought there was a chance we'd get Winds at least. Not anymore.
I suppose this pays more?
His portrait was GORGEOUS! His costume, OMG, HIS SKIN! He looks like a statue, I'm so excited to see his character!!!
The wig was what got me. The combo of his skin and the pure white locs just looked right to me
Lady Fearless Gray Thank You for refusing to allow ignorant foolery to prevail and sulley the groundbreaking debut of Sir Toussaint. So it is now I have 2 heroes Ser Corlys and you. Proud to have joined The Sweet Children of Summer. Gods Be Good. 👍
I love you!
And i agree With you 💯💯💯
I’m so fkn happy to see STRONG ASS BAD ASS BLACK CHARACTERS!
Its FAR FAR past time!
THANK YOU! The way people have been hammering his casting has sickened me. This adds so much more to the story and the universe, I am so excited and this casting is a big part of why I am. Like you said, it shows they have read and understood the material!
what extra dose it add other then cheap thrills of leftsit who dont buy shit and cry mah represntation
This is what baffles me. In a world where we have issues like homelessness, lack of food and adequate housing, displaced veterans, child abuse, and domestic abuse...this is what people choose to get irate and throw fits about?! If people put half as much energy into worthwhile causes rather than feigned outrage at a fantasy book character this world would be a much better place!
How do you know what we are outraged about or deal with in our everyday lives?
@@GrayArea I'm referring to people getting so upset over something that they are A) clearly wrong about, and B) something that is kind of silly to be so upset about because it's a fantasy series. So who's to say what color a character's skin is, especially when what that person looks like hasn't been described.
you tell them narrow minded people 👏 some folks really are that screwed up that they don't see the true roots and under tones of their statements and arguments side stepping when they get cornered like "o that's not how I mean it " but really that is exactly how they mean it .....some people suck
Yes!!!! Say that again for the people in the back! I am a HUGE ASOIAF fan since before the show and you are 100% correct! Thanks for educating the jokers out there :)
If House Velaryon is black, and we ignore the points that they have been in white majority Westeros for a very long time, or how Princess Daella (who is half Valaryon through her grandmother Alyssa 2 of her children) cried when she saw a summer islander who was visiting the red keep because she'd never seen a black person (this is canon). It still excludes the glaring fact that if in this how, House Velaryon is black, then it makes ZERO sense for Viserys and Rhaenyra's Targaryen branch to be white. So no, Corlys being black doesn't make sense.
@@wherermytacos5903 Daella being a racist Karen is the hill you want to die on?
I think people also need to stop using bad readings of lore to justify the change.
The show doesn’t need any justification to make the Velaryons black beyond ‘we decided to make them black.’ That’s it.
People saying ‘well Pentos, well the Summer Islands…’ are entirely wrong. There is no justification for black Velaryons in the books, and that’s okay!
I have a ton of faith that the showrunners have made the right choice, it’s not a concern to me, but they’re very obviously not black in the books, and people need to stop pretending that they might be.
Corlys's kids Leanor and Leana have been recasted as well,and they are both black,while in the books its specifically stated that they have typical Valyrian features,heck a whole story plot involve their physical appearence at one point,especially for Laenor
Heck even the official GOT team release artworks and illustrations videos showing the Dance of the Dragons,years ago when GOT aired on TV,and Corlys and the Velaryons were shown to be typically Valyrian looking,that's why Targs maried them in the first place,house Velaryon and Celtigar are sworn vassals of Targaryens when the Targaryens went to Westeros,Aegon the conqueror himself and his sister wives were half Velaryon,Velaryons had absolutely no reasons to marry outside their racial kin because their blood was the source of their power,in a world were only 3 houses in the entire Seven Kingdoms were of Valyrian descent,and beyond that,Targs and Velaryons kept their Valyrian heritage alive
People should stop getting triggered,nothing in the books support that race swapping,actually it might hurt the whole storyline,and you completely got wrong with you argument,as VELARYONS ARE ACTUALLY DRAGONSRIDERS,thats the whole plot,keep the blood pure and keep affinity with Dragonriding and Valyrian magic,and the point you try to make saying Corlys's mother could have been black,while Corlys is obviously fully black,not even mixed race is just laughable
I’ve never clicked so fast
Same. So hard!
On GAWD!!!!!
I always pictured Corlys as an old white guy but I can see no wrong with this casting. I wasn’t expecting it, not gonna lie, but Steve Toussaint is fine as hell & will be perfect as Corlys.
I know this is a fantasy tv show but the casting really doesn't make sense.
First, in the beautifully and lavishly illustrated World of Ice and Fire book every Valyrian is depicted with silvery pale hair and purplish eyes.
Second, I'm not sure if Corlys' appearance is ever described but his son Laenor' appearance is. He's described as sharing the Valyrian look of the Targyrians. He's also a dragon rider.
Thirdly, There have been depictions of Corlys and Leanor previously in media that George Martin was aware of. They are always shown as fair with silver blond/ white hair.
Finally it's pretty obvious HBO is hoping to increase black viewership and avoid criticism such as GOT and ASOIAF received for having such a largely white cast.
Everyone should just admit this and realize it's not that important but arguing it's somehow canon accurate and tying yourself in logical knots trying to justify it is ridiculous.
Exactly. Ignoring the written canon and selling non-existing canon, hinted canon or even pure head-canon to justify something that is obviously done to bring the House of the Dragon to certain demographic group is pointless. But, instead of labeling people who say this casting is not canon as racist - maybe those doing the labeling should ponder on why Martin wrote most of his characters to be white. Velaryons included. And how TV adaptations of his work must, due to current sociocultural moment in the US and most of Western world, be far more diverse in sense of characters than books are.
Fun fact: In the first book of F&B, theres one hightower guy who arrives at old town with a crew full of black people from the summer isles and the population of the city freak out thinking that theyre demons..... so i cant see how having a black lord is cannonically accurate
@@gahbitcoiners9201 - But Targaryens did marry people of darker complexion at times and nobody would challenge them due to their power and dragons.
George RR Martin also showed that many Valyrion’s are mixed race, some were darker than others. And he wanted the Valyrion’s to be separated by different features. The illustrations were done by different people, but Valyrion’s features were not described as having pale skin all the time.
As usual the second we get a black actor people lose their shit. If he was purple or green nobody would say shit.
Rawr !!! Get em Gray 😂
I was just happy to get a photo of a new character. His skin color didn’t even cross my mind until somebody brought it up in a negative manner. I was like wtf this is a fantasy world, literally anything goes. God can we not bring racial discrimination into this realm. I’m glad u made a video on this becus all these prejudice folks need to take this ish elsewhere. Personally I’m stoked for this series!
Why does it even matter? Who cares & why waste your breath? Most importantly… are his eyes purple? Seems like that is a more important question! 😉❤️
Thank you for this! I have always loved your channel! your energy and vibe in combination with my favorite fantasy is amazing, and I’m seeing why! Everything you said NEEDED TO BE SAID!
When they announced the casting I was rolling my eyes thinking they didnt get or care about the source material, but I decided to wait and see how they sell it and pull it off. I feel the most important detail is that Corlys' grandchildren are clearly not his blood for all the court to see in echos of Cersei and Robert's children. And when I saw him with the blonde wig it all clicked for me; if the showrunners give Corlys Valyrian traits (still hoping for purple eyes!) then it all works. Especially with what you are reminding everyone about his being a seafaring family. This makes sense to me now with book cannon, so I am happy to F off and enjoy this. So far what I am seeing on screen is working and calming my inner nerd.
Look, at first I didn't think it would work, but after seeing the photo......... IT'S FREAKING PERFECT! OMG he looks amazing and I can't wait to watch his performance.
...andi posted that before I finished the video, and you are absolutely right about everything and now I feel stupid for even doubting it in the first place.
See this is what I appreciate. Someone else made a comment like this too. Y’all are the realist ones in this comment section bc you ADMITTED you had biases but are willing to do the work to get past them. This is what real anti racism work looks like right here not a bunch of white Ppl lying to themselves and us by acting like they never had prejudices and biases bc then their biases come out in hurtful ways. We can work with this. This is real. Thank you 🙏🏾 ❤️✊🏾
HBO SHOWING US HOW THEY LEARN TO RESPECT THE BOOKS AND NOT ONLY THE NOWADAYS POLITICAL CORRECTIVENESS FRENZY ... SUCCESS GUARANTEED
It contradicts the books...
I'm a BW (black woman) and I disagree with you. Unless you're from the Solomon islands black people aren't walking around with blonde hair. "Fine, aristocrat features" does not equate to coily hair and a full featured nose and lips. Also how the heck would Corlys be walking around looking 90+% black? If he was mixed why wouldn't he look like a biracial? George and production can cast who they want but no he does not look the part. Heck the Targaryens on this show aren't as good looking as Viserys and Dany were so they dont look the part either if you ask me, Targaryens are supposed to be almost other worldy handsome.
Honestly, I just want this show to rock and temper my feelings toward season 8. He looks amazing and is a proven brilliant actor. Keep up the good work milady!!!
You people do realize that Aenys Targaryen, the father of king Jahaerys and Alysanne took a Velaryon as his wife? Yet you don't see any black targaryen even though the genes run through the bloodline. So, if the Velaryons were truly black then there should have been mixed Targaryens like Daemon's daughters.
Also, the Targaryens were obsessed with keeping the blood of the dragon pure! They married Velaryons specifically for their fine Valyrian traits, there's no way they would have done it if the Velaryons were black.
Conclusion: the show is not canon but marely an inaccurate representation of the story with unnecessary diversity in order to fulfill the primary standards of movie industry of this decade.
He's an actor let him act I could care less what his skin color is and I'm very disappointed that this is even an issue. Good for you for pointing all this out.
Dany Targaryen has the Targaryen features of silver-white hair pale skin , but even Dany has some blood from the Kingdom of Dorne .
The Dorne only join the 7 kingdom after a marriage alliance between the King and Princess of Targaryen married Prince and Princess of Dorne.
My point is that even the pure Targaryen like Dany are not pure . They have mixed marriage once a while and then a few generation later their descendant still silver-white hair pale skin. Even the Targargen had married some Black Velaryon , a few generation later they could still have the silver-white hair pale skin look.
Rhaegar Targaryen ( John snow)'s father , his first wife was a Dorne princess as well , their children were mixed as well .
Another point I don't see people making much is that making them black helps differentiate them from the Targs, which is helpful for people who don't know all the characters. It just gives some variety.
Sissssssss. I'm over here trying to go to bed and instead I'm just rolling and stannin' this.
But no, you hit the nail on the head in that they seem to actually know the story better. George R. R. Martin has explained that he considered depicting the Targaryans as black, and opted against it at the time due to political overtones. Besides that though is as you mentioned: this is a diverse world. And even the world it is based on....was also diverse. People love to forget about Afro-Roman relations, about Norse exploration into Africa.Y'all want to believe Christopher Columbus "discovered" America, but refuse to believe that populations in the same damn hemisphere could've intermixed????????
Baffled. Baffled, frustrated, and amused. But more than anything: excited for this show and the knowledge we may actually have decent showrunners this time (even if I'm still salty about not getting an Aegon's Conquest spinoff).
Thank you, you are so right! I just want an awesome show and to get back to Westeros on screen. Much love!
@Silver Lady and yet the racist checkmate is always "but wut if a black character was played by a white person 🥴"
Generally I am pro education but frankly I am irritated and done with this kind of shit today. Please go be ignorant somewhere else, or take the time to educate yourself and come back before you try and argue from this played out bullshit.
We needed a channel like this too speak on this issue. Most lore channels would enable these comments. Glad we have grey🤍
All she does is squats angrily pure attitude no grace or class. She's a conflict seeker
Tell it. You are so right!! Martin's universe is wonderfully diverse and we need to stop assuming looks based on our own prejudices 🤗
The only time I can see switching race being an issue is if it messes with a plot point. But they can easily make Rhaenyras children suspicious as Strongs because they are obviously white rather than mixed race, not just the lack of white hair.
I enjoy your content and I have no problem with race and castings, unless it as you said, interferes with the plot. And it MOST certainly does in this case. I am aware im taking the unpopular opinion here. Sadly, im sure people exist who dislike this casting due to their racism. I dislike it because it's a big monkey wrench in our story.
Corlys Velaryon is not just some side dude who they can take liberties with.. He AND his race are pivotal to the story and here's why.
He is the father of Laenor Velaryon, who is Rhaenyra's first husband and is supposed to have fathered her first 3 boys. The paternity of these kids is important to the Dance and it depends on who you ask whether Laenor or Breakbones actually is their father. The Greens use this as evidence for their claim.
Here's our first issue. There can be no question of paternity with this Corlys. With Laenor, the kids will be mixed race, and with Breakbones not. Not exactly a daddy controversy.
Next, you claim we don't have any physical description. Yes and no. Maybe George didn't go into detail about his eye color, and how his hair falls and what color it is and if he likes lemon cakes. But he certainly lets you know if someone is westerosi, or quartheen, or dothraki or what have you. Corlys is valyrian, from valyria, his name is even velaryon! I dont see how else George can make this clearer. The Velaryons are not dragon riders but they are just as valyrian as the Targs. We know what valyrians look like. You said they aren't white and showed a lineup of white targaryens?
Lets also be clear that Valryia was not a melting pot as you say. New York, Los Angeles, these are melting pots. People of different races living and working together, a community..
Valyria was a slave city..as in nobles/elites and then their slaves, not peers in any way..separate..no melting. Remember, the Targs dont even want to breed outside their own family. They view many proud and noble houses of Westeros as less than fit to consort with. You think they're getting jiggy with their slaves?? Not a chance, especially back in the day in actual valyria.
There's a rumor Corlys fathered Addam of Hull as well. Again, I dont care one bit about someone's complexion but when we have a story seeped in genetics and heredity, you can't do this. Its not about racism or gatekeeping fantasy, its about the showrunners having their shit together.
I dont know about everyone else but I'm fresh off seeing the series I love get shat on because the writers couldn't be bothered to put in the effort. This casting is a huge loose end and a part of me is nervous that this new show is already going down the path of GoT.
Its not that I want Corlys white, I want a story that works.
Addam of Hull and his brother were actually described in the books as totally Valyrian-looking,they are several images leaked who actually shows that Corlys kids are also black,and some black Velaryons are around as well,so that's not even a recast about Corlys but the entire Velaryon family,which hurt the story itself as Rhaenyra and Daemon are part Velaryon as well
If you want my opinion,this show is going totally political and woke,Corlys the single black noble in a white continent is going to side with Rhanerya for women's rights and empowerement against the evil white supremacist misogynist Daemon's party,literally the Greens are the evil while the Blacks are the good side,literally left versus right
And that girl actually got it wrong,as Velaryons are actually Dragonriders,they just didn't had Dragons when they left Valyria before the Targs,but their bloodline allows them to ride Dragons,and that's exactly what happened in this story
@@ardinsiga6744 not only Adam velaryon but also Laenor has those classic valyrian looks.
Thats my fear, that politics or incompetence(again) will derail this whole thing.
Maybe the showrunners are so woke that they didn't want to have a faction called the blacks be all white people.
@@ardinsiga6744 Oh my god to you anti-sjw types everything is political
@@v78michel lol, what a woke response.
@@michaelnkomphela8231 what a dumb response no response at all
You brought the juice and the facts … and I’m so so so glad that you put some people in their place with this video !! Hopefully they sit down and shut up now 🔥💪🏻
✊🏾🔥
Girl! You said it plain and simple! I wanted to slap you a high five! I watch all your stuff and never comment but I think you are always spot on and I had to today! Thank you!
you killed this video
The books never said Valaryons are white , true , but we know that Valaryons are cousins to the Tageryians and have the same origin to old Valeria , they are the same race the same nation , so how is it possible that the same race some of them are black and some white ? They should either be all black or all white , they could've made any other house bkack
If you have some insecurity about a fictional character.. You have some inner demons to deal with..People are soft and get upset about a character that never exist..
Your reasons for the casting aren't actually facts its Exactly just your opinion which is 100% fine. Doesn't make other people who don't agree or have a different opinion about the casting even regarding race are wrong. Opinion is yours and yours alone right or wrong doesn't matter. In my mind from the book fire and blood the sea snake is fairskin but i don't care what skin color or race he is in the show.
What did I say from the books that isn’t a fact?
@@GrayArea Read more carefully I'm not talking about the book. I'm talking about your opinion and others opinions about the color of sea snakes skin people can imagine whatever color they want if it's not what they expected and their upset about it doesn't mean your opinion proves them wrong. Stop looking for conflict.
You’re correct and she still doesn’t understand. She’s full of herself
Thank you. I’ll admit when I first saw it I thought “this wasn’t how I imagined he’d look” but I had the same problem with Jon snow, Cersei Lannister and of course Rickon and bran and robb. Why did no one freak out they didn’t have the Tully hair and eyes? That was truly breaking with the book lore.
So it’s not how I imagined Corlys. But I’m sure I’ll come to love his performance all the same. As long as he’s a good actor and portrays the character well, I’m happy.
Great video! I always learn so much!
I'm Valyrian and I'm not black. GRRM never said I wasn't so obvs I am.
I've very disappointed not in any particular side of this argument I'm disappointed that cultural and political issues are being dragged into a franchise that I love. Please people this show and the books are and escape for alot of people! I keep up with politics and what going on in the main stream but the world of a song of ice and fire is one of my escapes from those things when they stress me out. I will say I think the guy playing the character looks BADASS and I'm very excited for his performance. I also will say I do disagree with companies putting minorities into rolls just to try and show how "woke" they are especially when the actor isn't a very good performer or you can just tell the character is filler. I don't think this is one of those scenarios tho... With all that being said I hope we can put this behind us and let the excitement and anticipation for this new series bring us all back together!
I did not want to make this video, I needed to tho. It needed to be said. The comments were disgusting and factually not correct.
As a black fan of the books I’m not a fan of the casting choice either.
Why are you not a fan of the casting?
Still waiting
@@kennymarket2428 because it's a trash, according to this logic all Targaryens should have been black. Why? Because Aegon the Conqueror was the son of Velaryon!
@@andriykasyanenko9276 so? It’s a tv show about a fake world. It isn’t real. You do know that right?
@@andriykasyanenko9276 do you understand how race works?
Besides the fact that it makes completely sense. It's also a badass decision! Corlys will be one of my FAVORITE characters this season and beyond! They still gave him silver hair! Love it so much!
So the guy will be your favorite character ONLY because he's black ?? My God, this racism...
@grayarea THEY CAST SALADOR SAAN AS A BLACK GUY WHO IN THE BOOKS IS OF VALERIAN DECENT AND NO BODY SAID SHIT ! So there you go some ppl are just stupid 🖤the video gray
I like the idea of a black Corlys Velaryon
I have to admit I was fully against this casting when it initially come out, but the more I thought about it the more I realized how wrong I was
I wish I could like this twice! It takes such a real one to be able to say “oh shit, I didnt consider x y z”
I appreciate this!
You was completely right
Nice to see, that you changed your mind. But I have a question and I know, I'm late to the party..;)
What made you think otherwise in the beginning?
Damn.... well said, well played. I would do almost anything ('anything' loosely defined, haha) to be able to discuss, debate, and maybe even collaborate on some project in the future! You have the most appropriate, proportionate, empirical, and educated traits/qualities. I genuinely believe you have what it takes to be a substantial, influential author (ESPECIALLY if it has anything to do with fantasy/high fantasy).
Real talk! 😉
Thank you !!! We need more black in fantasy especially in a lore as influential as Game Of Thrones.
@Silver Lady LOL stop trolling
Why not in original black fantasy stories? Where the focus are these characters and cultures rather than reaching and interpreting established characters as black when they're race isn't mentioned? There are plenty of black in fantasy already you just need to read them. Mind you many of these are getting tv and film adaptations, HBO and GRRM are adapting Who Fears Death.
Charles R. Saunders
Imaro series
Book 1 Imaro
Book 2 Imaro: Quest for Cush
Book 3 Imaro: The Trail of Bohu
Book 4 Imaro: The Naama War
Nyumbani Tales
Dossouye duology
Book 1 Dossouye
Book 2 Dossouye: The Dancers of Mulukau
Abengoni: First Calling
N.K Jemisin
The Inheritance Trilogy
Book 1 The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms
Book 2 The Broken Kingdoms
Book 3 The Kingdom of Gods
The Dreamblood Duology
Book 1 The Killing Moon
Book 2 The Shadowed Sun
The Broken Earth
Book 1 The First Season
Book 2 The Obelisk Gate
Book 3 The Stone Sky
Marlon James
The Dark Star Trilogy
Book 1 Black Leopard Red Wolf
Book 2 Moon Witch, Spider King(yet to be released)
Book 3 The Boy and the Dark Star (yet to be released)
Tomi Adeyemi
Legacy of Orisha
Book 1 Children of Blood and Bone
Book 2 Children of Virtue and Vengeance
Book 3 ???
Book 4 ???
Book 5 ???
Evan Winters
The Burning
Book 1 The Rage of Dragons
Book 2 The Fires of Vengeance
Book 3 The Lord of Demons (2022)
Book 4???
Nnedi Okorafor
Who Fears Death
The Book of the Phoenix
Binti Trilogy
Book 1 Binti
Book 2 Home
Book 3 The Night Masquerade
Ataka Witch
Zahrah the Windseeker
Rena Barron
Last Witch Doctor trilogy
Book 1 Kingdom of Souls
Book 2 Reaper of Souls
Book 3 ???
Maya and the rising Dark
Antoine Bandele
Tales of Esowon series
The Kishi
Sky Pirate Chronicle
Book 1 By Sea & Sky
Book 2 Of Ruin & Silk
book 3 For Code & Honor (yet to be released)
TJ Young & the Orishas
Book 1 The Gatekeeper's Staff (yet to be released)
An Orisha tale
Book 1 Will of the Mischief Maker
Milton J. Davis
Changa's Safari series
Griots: A Sword and Soul Anthology
Fallen
Meji Duology
Eda Blessed: A Ki Khanga Adventure
Priestess of NKu: A Ki Khanga Adventure
Amber series
Book 1 Amber and the hidden city
Book 2 Amber and the enchanted sword
From Here to Timbuktu
The Makurian (out 2021)
Tochi Onyebuchi
Beasts made of Night
Crown of Thunder
Suyi Davies Okungbowa
Godhunter
Son of the Storm
Anthony Kwamu
Timbuktu Chronicles: Aida and the Chosen Soldier
Gregory Walker
Shades of Memnon series
Book 1 The African warrior of the Trojian war
Book 2 Ra Force Rising
Book 3 African Atlantis Unbound
E.O. Odiasa and K.N Pumpuni
The Last Warrior King
Book 1 A Cry to War
Book 2 A Dance For The Gods
@@admirekashiri9879 why not both ? Why is it that every time black faces are in something, it always causes uproar and conflict ? Consider that.
@@chrischoward9108 if a given author doesn't have many or any poc characters in his or her writing then oh well leave their work be doesn't matter how popular. It's like with LOTR it doesn't need diverse characters Tolkien didn't bother to add any don't change his vision its not necessary especially when we have our own. Instead look to original fantasies with diversity and or centered on poc like the ones I've listed. And it doesn't cause an uproar for example if Stormlight Archive was to get an adaptation no one can bitch about some of the major characters in the story's lore being black because they are! Same goes for some of the protagonists they're not all white. In The First Law Trilogy there is a black mage or wizard character and his apprentice would be brown or olive skinned, again adapting this and showing these characters as they are in the books won't bother anyone and if it does clearly the fools weren't fans of the books or weren't paying attention.
The uproar is usually caused when they tokenize, shoe horn or race swap characters, actions which aren't needed. The Witcher series is the best example they ruined the worldbuilding and lore by not sticking to the book description of the demographics and characters. With the assistance of the author they could have brought new characters who were poc and made it make sense but thet chose the easy route.
@@admirekashiri9879 This video we are commenting under gives an ample amount of evidence to defend the character’s ethnicity. I’m trying to figure out why it is a problem. This is not a race swap or a token situation. Just because most people thought that this character was white doesn’t mean that’s what it was. Lol
"This is fantasy we can do what ever the fuck we want", is not the mindset i hope the show writes had 😂
it does make sense that originating from a very warm climate, would mean that they are black of skin.
I must admit reading the books i imagined him as a white skinned person, mostly because house Velaryon have been interbreeding with many other houses in Westeros since the doom of Valyria. But also because, it's my impression from reading GRRM, that when a character has dark skin, it is pointed out like Jalabhar Xho or Taena of Myr, "Sandy Dornishmen" and "Salty Dornishmen". Hinting that this is not common in Westeros, besides in parts of Dorne.
Casting The Sea Snake as black does however keep up with HBO's previous casting choices as Salladhor Saan (also a Valyrian) was also casted as black. I don't remember people went off the rails back then.
In the end it mostly matters to me if he portraits the character correct. I would find it inappropriate if it was clearly stated that he was light of skin and HBO ignored this, but this is not the case and I'm looking forward to the show airs.
They didn't mind Salladhor Saan because he was a minor character from no major house. But since Corlys is a major character from a prominent house, they're mad. In their minds, only whites should hold power.
He is so friggin awesome! 😍 I'm so glad he is black because that is how he is supposed to be. He is my favourite character and I can't wait for season 2.