Round 1 you should find ways to make the enemies spend their actions on things that aren't just attacks/special abilities. Typically enemy actions are more valuable than PC actions, so any actions they spend having to stride, stand up, or recover from a bad condition is 1 less attack against your Frontline, or one less negative condition inducing spell on your party. "Burning" their actions is a great defense for your first round.
Absolutely. Waste their actions, not yours! I covered this a bit in my combat tactics intro video, but it bears repeating, or maybe even a detailed video just about this idea.
@RebelThenKing I think a video on the subject is a splendid idea! In fact it would be helpful for new players were you to dispel the myth that using your own actions to make enemies waste actions is only a 1 for 1 trade. So many players(at my table and on Reddit) seem to have gotten hung up on that very thing.
You implicitly mentioned DELAY but it warrants an explicit mention: martials delaying round 1 to wait for casters is particularly useful to help with buffs or unfriendly area damage/debuffs
If your initial positions are good, delaying can even just give you more actions to work with as enemies have to do the legwork of striding up to you instead of vice versa.
I still remember playing as an alchemist and spotting an enemy alchemist across the battlefield. I told the other players to spread out to avoid splash damage from bombs. They didn't. We got wrecked.
Totally digging the animations. Properly using buffs, debuffs, and positioning really changes the game. I didn’t really grasp it until playing with you and Vogel and having y’all stomp my monsters.
Great video! Delaying and readied actions are huge; it's almost always better to delay or ready if you think you can get a bonus later unless you think you can stop an enemy that round. I hope to see a video on exploring and surprise, the set up of an encounter and marching orders/scouting. I feel like scouting is a lost art.
You are reading my mind. It'll be several weeks before it's done, but I have an advanced video after my planned Round 1, Round 2, and Round 3 video, that will cover exploration activities!
This is a great video. I encourage you to go round-by-round. But in between such videos, consider breaking down into more details the WHY of things you’ve mentioned, and the step-for-step of HOW they work. Delay immediately springs to mind from this video. I can honestly say from my 5+ years of running multiple weekly games, Delay is one of the most overlooked tactics in the game by parties new to PF2. Also, an entire video breaking down tactics to waste enemy actions on things besides actual combat would be spectacular and very useful. Obviously this goal is useful in all rounds, but forcing the enemies to waste their actions early on in the fight really can be the difference between shorter and longer combat. Regardless, I hope you continue with this type of video. I don’t think they’ll ever draw the type of views most of the fun class, ancestry, and spell overviews out there do. And I’d be shocked if they pull anywhere near as many views as class tier rankings do. But in my opinion, actual well made combat videos like this are severely lacking. That’s especially true for a system known as being a bit more combat-oriented than its other popular counterparts.
One other tactic I would like to highlight is battle positioning, which you lightly touched on with defense, but could probably be its own video on taking advantage of the battlefield geography. If there is a natural chokepoint such as a door or narrow hallway, make sure your beefy meat shields are blocking it with some defensive buffs. If there are obstacles in the form of rocks, trees, or furniture, all characters can use it to gain some cover advantages, and your stealthy characters can hide to avoid direct targeting or make the enemy waste actions seeking. Great video!!! As a player new to P2E, I am really loving the strategic options available to all characters regardless of build.
8:25 Here's a question for you. Initiative Order. Are you recommending that the Martials delay their turns, To act after the casters and ranged... For the reasons you mentioned? Easy if they both rolled higher than enemy initiative, But would you recommend the Fighter act last in a round if that's what it took to get into the ideal order you listed?
It's interesting how different classes interact with that first turn within PF2e design. WIS key casters (cleric/druid) tend to naturally go sooner in the turn order which usually benefits them. Cleric especially as it usually is the best place to fit heal spells in the subsequent rounds. But if the party. is already buffed up from prior fight or prep time, going later can sometimes help give you the ability to immediately heal allies after /between enemy turns, wait to better capitalize on debuffs, or wait for better party positioning (dont want to leave squishy animal companions next to enemies before your allies move in to help with flanks/protection). Its very interesting weighing the pros and cons of delaying as a high WIS class and you generally have the higher initial initiative rolls to give you that decision making ability. Skill monkey builds can get an edge on initiative order too using skill checks as initiative rolls (using Stealth or other skills during exploration). I love how Stealth rules can be rolled into Initiative and integrated with the start of combat. Swashbuckler feat 'After You' is pretty great because you get to psuedo-Delay till the end and still use reactions (depending on if your GM grants you reactions before your first turn) while also getting panache. Our table's swashbuckler found going dead last usually wasn't much of a penalty and generally around when he wanted to act anyways. Psychic is interesting because you might not want to open with your 'biggest and baddest' AoE if you think you want to wait to see if its worth popping Unleash Psyche early or saving it for later if you think you might run out of juice before the fight ends. My table hasn't played much with Psychic so I've been itching to roll one up next time we start a campaign.
This is great! I would like advice on how martials can help casters land those big spells. Everything you hear seems to be the other way - casters helping (or saving lol) martials
I'm finishing my scripts for Round 2, Round 3, and advanced tactics right now, and I've got ideas for helping your casters in the advanced tactics video! I"m going to be releasing these about every two weeks, so stay tuned!
Martial, Can reliably Demoralize. If you use your demoralize effectively, You not only make an enemy frightened, for your strikes, But also for their saves. Most aoe spells will have a Save to resist or avoid. Also, if you are a martial with an OppAtt of some sort, leave yourself in a position to be able to use it, Also, either block enemy access to the squishy casters... Or stay out of the way of an AoE. Or both. Try to avoid planting down inside the aoe zone. You learn your allies big tickets... Ie. Solar Detonation, Fireball, Breath weapon, etc etc. If the martials stay outside that template, the casters can cast with impunity... Bonus points : Shove or Reposition, to move enemies into a cluster, and potentially further from your casters melee.
8:02 That would be the highlight of the worst part of your example bad 1st round. Not only did they land few strikes...after spending several move actions to reach the enemy... The enemy round will be able to maximize strikes or spells, because the Party is close, and bunched.
Almost never... because, I, the bard, am always using Courageous Anthem! In last night's session with a single combat encounter that lasted 3 rounds I believe there were 3 hits that only landed due to Courageous Anthem. Though I failed to land a strike despite using a hero point on one turn and Sure Strike on the other. My dice are cursed.
8:25 There was a terrible element to that round... The only melee combatant, the Monk, strode in, Flurry of Blows, Then retreated, Leaving the Wizard, Sorc, and Alchemist... Completely exposed. Those enemies can swarm and flank the squishy casters with complete disregard for the monk Who likely has exceptional AC and decent HP
1:17 The Flurry Ranger stride into position. Hunted Prey. Then attacked. But. Hunted Shot / Strike, Does allow 2 attack rolls, for the 1 action. So. Small mistake there.
That first example of the first round is totally my party.
I mean, to be fair, it's a lot of parties. It's why videos like this exist!
I love generalizable strategy videos like this!
Round 1 you should find ways to make the enemies spend their actions on things that aren't just attacks/special abilities. Typically enemy actions are more valuable than PC actions, so any actions they spend having to stride, stand up, or recover from a bad condition is 1 less attack against your Frontline, or one less negative condition inducing spell on your party. "Burning" their actions is a great defense for your first round.
Absolutely. Waste their actions, not yours! I covered this a bit in my combat tactics intro video, but it bears repeating, or maybe even a detailed video just about this idea.
@RebelThenKing I think a video on the subject is a splendid idea! In fact it would be helpful for new players were you to dispel the myth that using your own actions to make enemies waste actions is only a 1 for 1 trade. So many players(at my table and on Reddit) seem to have gotten hung up on that very thing.
I like this style of video. Actual play versus build advice is rare. Even better, I like the way you thought about it.
You implicitly mentioned DELAY but it warrants an explicit mention: martials delaying round 1 to wait for casters is particularly useful to help with buffs or unfriendly area damage/debuffs
Just played a game where multiple hits landed due to the martials waiting for Inspire Courage instead of charging in. Very worth it.
If your initial positions are good, delaying can even just give you more actions to work with as enemies have to do the legwork of striding up to you instead of vice versa.
I would add to number 9 on priorities, 'de-clump'. Make your party less vulnerable to area effect attacks.
I still remember playing as an alchemist and spotting an enemy alchemist across the battlefield. I told the other players to spread out to avoid splash damage from bombs. They didn't. We got wrecked.
De-clumping should also involve other positioning, like casters moving to places where the path to them travels through an opportunity attack
Totally digging the animations. Properly using buffs, debuffs, and positioning really changes the game. I didn’t really grasp it until playing with you and Vogel and having y’all stomp my monsters.
Great video! Delaying and readied actions are huge; it's almost always better to delay or ready if you think you can get a bonus later unless you think you can stop an enemy that round. I hope to see a video on exploring and surprise, the set up of an encounter and marching orders/scouting. I feel like scouting is a lost art.
You are reading my mind. It'll be several weeks before it's done, but I have an advanced video after my planned Round 1, Round 2, and Round 3 video, that will cover exploration activities!
This is a great video. I encourage you to go round-by-round. But in between such videos, consider breaking down into more details the WHY of things you’ve mentioned, and the step-for-step of HOW they work. Delay immediately springs to mind from this video. I can honestly say from my 5+ years of running multiple weekly games, Delay is one of the most overlooked tactics in the game by parties new to PF2.
Also, an entire video breaking down tactics to waste enemy actions on things besides actual combat would be spectacular and very useful. Obviously this goal is useful in all rounds, but forcing the enemies to waste their actions early on in the fight really can be the difference between shorter and longer combat.
Regardless, I hope you continue with this type of video. I don’t think they’ll ever draw the type of views most of the fun class, ancestry, and spell overviews out there do. And I’d be shocked if they pull anywhere near as many views as class tier rankings do. But in my opinion, actual well made combat videos like this are severely lacking. That’s especially true for a system known as being a bit more combat-oriented than its other popular counterparts.
Also remember to get a good initiative order
One other tactic I would like to highlight is battle positioning, which you lightly touched on with defense, but could probably be its own video on taking advantage of the battlefield geography. If there is a natural chokepoint such as a door or narrow hallway, make sure your beefy meat shields are blocking it with some defensive buffs. If there are obstacles in the form of rocks, trees, or furniture, all characters can use it to gain some cover advantages, and your stealthy characters can hide to avoid direct targeting or make the enemy waste actions seeking.
Great video!!! As a player new to P2E, I am really loving the strategic options available to all characters regardless of build.
This is definitely a good callout. I've already included some more positioning info in my scripts for videos about Round 2 and Round 3 of combat.
8:25
Here's a question for you.
Initiative Order.
Are you recommending that the Martials delay their turns,
To act after the casters and ranged...
For the reasons you mentioned?
Easy if they both rolled higher than enemy initiative,
But would you recommend the Fighter act last in a round if that's what it took to get into the ideal order you listed?
It's interesting how different classes interact with that first turn within PF2e design. WIS key casters (cleric/druid) tend to naturally go sooner in the turn order which usually benefits them. Cleric especially as it usually is the best place to fit heal spells in the subsequent rounds. But if the party. is already buffed up from prior fight or prep time, going later can sometimes help give you the ability to immediately heal allies after /between enemy turns, wait to better capitalize on debuffs, or wait for better party positioning (dont want to leave squishy animal companions next to enemies before your allies move in to help with flanks/protection). Its very interesting weighing the pros and cons of delaying as a high WIS class and you generally have the higher initial initiative rolls to give you that decision making ability. Skill monkey builds can get an edge on initiative order too using skill checks as initiative rolls (using Stealth or other skills during exploration). I love how Stealth rules can be rolled into Initiative and integrated with the start of combat.
Swashbuckler feat 'After You' is pretty great because you get to psuedo-Delay till the end and still use reactions (depending on if your GM grants you reactions before your first turn) while also getting panache. Our table's swashbuckler found going dead last usually wasn't much of a penalty and generally around when he wanted to act anyways.
Psychic is interesting because you might not want to open with your 'biggest and baddest' AoE if you think you want to wait to see if its worth popping Unleash Psyche early or saving it for later if you think you might run out of juice before the fight ends. My table hasn't played much with Psychic so I've been itching to roll one up next time we start a campaign.
This is great! I would like advice on how martials can help casters land those big spells. Everything you hear seems to be the other way - casters helping (or saving lol) martials
I'm finishing my scripts for Round 2, Round 3, and advanced tactics right now, and I've got ideas for helping your casters in the advanced tactics video! I"m going to be releasing these about every two weeks, so stay tuned!
Martial, Can reliably Demoralize.
If you use your demoralize effectively,
You not only make an enemy frightened, for your strikes,
But also for their saves.
Most aoe spells will have a Save to resist or avoid.
Also, if you are a martial with an OppAtt of some sort, leave yourself in a position to be able to use it,
Also, either block enemy access to the squishy casters...
Or stay out of the way of an AoE. Or both.
Try to avoid planting down inside the aoe zone.
You learn your allies big tickets...
Ie. Solar Detonation, Fireball, Breath weapon, etc etc.
If the martials stay outside that template, the casters can cast with impunity...
Bonus points : Shove or Reposition, to move enemies into a cluster, and potentially further from your casters melee.
8:02
That would be the highlight of the worst part of your example bad 1st round.
Not only did they land few strikes...after spending several move actions to reach the enemy...
The enemy round will be able to maximize strikes or spells, because the Party is close, and bunched.
Yes indeed. They are about to get wrecked.
2:36
How often do you Miss By 1?
In actual game?
Almost never... because, I, the bard, am always using Courageous Anthem! In last night's session with a single combat encounter that lasted 3 rounds I believe there were 3 hits that only landed due to Courageous Anthem.
Though I failed to land a strike despite using a hero point on one turn and Sure Strike on the other. My dice are cursed.
8:25
There was a terrible element to that round...
The only melee combatant, the Monk, strode in, Flurry of Blows,
Then retreated,
Leaving the Wizard, Sorc, and Alchemist... Completely exposed.
Those enemies can swarm and flank the squishy casters with complete disregard for the monk
Who likely has exceptional AC and decent HP
1:17
The Flurry Ranger stride into position.
Hunted Prey.
Then attacked.
But. Hunted Shot / Strike,
Does allow 2 attack rolls, for the 1 action.
So. Small mistake there.