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Does the Pedal Commander fix the BRZ/GR86's Poor Throttle Response?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ย. 2022
- pedalcommander...
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The pedal commander on my prior generation was one of my favorite mods. Fantastic for these cars!
Thinking of getting one of these on my 2018 . Curious on ur input
Glad i wasnt crazy, swear i had some issues driving smoothly with my gr86, this may be something i should look into. Great video as always topher,
Same, there is a deadzone but then past the deadzone it becomes hard to modulate/hold revs..modern cars are too smart for their own good!
@@supraJZA80s Yep, I have a 2023 model and I love it, but the tuning is just dumb AF. I will definitely be getting the Pedal Commander.
I’m closely following your fine tuning. I’m especially curious for your thoughts on tire and wheel fitment. Your approach is based on years with the platform and that is really valuable.
For wheel and tires, I still maintain that stock sizing is the most fun/best all around for the car 👍
@@TheTopher I ran 245/40R17 for autocross. Better grip but you are right it wasn’t nearly as fun as the stock Primacy tires. I’m mainly focused on driver improvement for 2023. Driving school and more events. I’m rethinking tire choices with that in mind.
I love the pedal cam! I would totally welcome having them in regular videos that aren't specifically about pedals
Pedal Box Camera should stay in every video 👌🏻
Seconded. I learned so much from that old rev match/heel toe tutorial vid of his before I bought this car as my first manual.
I am thrilled to hear a positive review from a trustworthy source! I had heard Matt Farah advertise this on TST podcast and it surprised me since I've always been so skeptical of these types of devices. The throttle response on my tuned 1st gen was sublime, and my GR86 is really frustrating. Excited to give this a try!
Definitely a must buy. With the tall gear ratio you need to be as close to five in and this should make up shifting from a traffic light much easier and allow you to enjoy driving the car economically. I loved the split personality in my old 330Ci 5MT. I averaged 26 MPG hooning it when available and chilling when in traffic.
As someone else has mentioned before, the Pedal Commander makes your car quicker, not faster. And it makes sense. The only reason why I returned it for my Crosstrek was because its almost useless when youre in traffic 90% of your travel time. I just stay on sport mode only because it gets rid of the cvt studder
Thanks for this! Bringing this car back as a contender for me, as I was worried about the dead zone I felt on test drive.
I was also skeptical, but I picked one of these up on your recommendation. Holy cow, what a difference it's made. Running in Sport -3 my shifts are smoother, starts are easier, and the car just feels ready to go anytime. Thanks!
Glad to hear it!
I also installed one in my 2021 2.0 GR Supra after feeling a bit of throttle lag and it helped a lot. Cutting the early zone did a lot to modulate power better
3:50 Yeah it's 100% a throttle tuning issues as well. I did some re-mapping work with a tactrix cable on my 2017 Toyota 86 and was able to smooth out the starting quite a bit. I also changed the slave and later the master cylinder to improve clutch weight and remove the stock clutch damper, which has helped significantly with feel and drivability.
Yo holdup. The car has a clutch damper???? Ie a clutch delay valve? What cylinders did you get?
@@404nobrakes I'm pretty sure there is no clutch delay valve on the gen1.
@@404nobrakes No, the gen 1 car does not have a clutch delay valve, but rather a clutch "damper" built into the car's master cylinder. It is spring loaded circular disk of some sort that dampens the some of fluid movement. Not quite sure why they started putting them in modern cars, but I think it has to do with preserving the trans on drop clutch launches. I don't really do those, so I figured I'd get rid of it. So far, so good, but I've only had it in the car a few weeks. There is much better feel and the engagement is more predictable.
@@jonboy602 See my reply to @Saruabh.
@@carolinacars739 Thanks, interesting. How did you get rid of it? Swapping the MC? Got a link to a how-to?
Oh yay! I'm glad you tried this out! Kinda cool to see what modding cars consists of these days
There is still a delay thats built right into the ecu tune, which means you need a tune to fix it. This is true for both the BRZ and GR86.
In sport mode from just over 4k rev it took ~200-250ms for the car to respond to your throttle blip changing down @7:25. The reason why its hard for me to properly count is that there are 60 frames per second, which is a bit rough, and you can hear the engine slightly kick off a little before the electronic rev display catches is (its slightly behind real-time by I would say anywhere up to 50ms)
I've had a Pedal Commander on my BRZ for a year now. I was skeptical before I got it but I'm glad I did. I don't feel the torque dip at all.
I've read some reviews of people saying when they mashed the throttle it threw their car into limp mode, have you experianced this at all?
Great video, so thanks for posting. I put a PedalBox on my '09 S5 MT. It made a crappy car drive more adequate, but not satisfactory. Ultimately there was never any consistency in the gas pedal from gear to gear and I could never be smooth with it. No Fun. So, I sold the car after about nine months of ownership. Found a 2012 E92 335i MT that makes me really happy, and no PedalBox required.
This is exactly how I feel about what the pedal commander did for my 2010 acura mdx. It made an already fantastic car, even better.
Seriously this is great review, you did great job of explaining the benefits of this on a small sports car. Best review I’ve seen. I’m adding a Banks Pedal Monster to my Miata as soon as the snow clears. Mines a garage Princess she’s never seen a snow flake. This gives me a heads up what I can expect, much appreciated.
One of the best reviews of the Pedal Commander I've been able to view. It looks as if they have addressed 90% of the issues the factory settings have created. On that issue, it's my opinion that the factory setup was set for a accelerator dead zone that would be comfortable for the non-technical, no-fuss driver.
For the other group of drives that love the technology and possess the ability to mold the driving experience to their needs, Subaru has left the door open for them.
Always thought the 2.0L needed a lightweight flywheel, but the OEM throttle response makes sense.
Wait, what do you mean?
Thank you for this video, all this time I thought it was just me.
You should do more pedal cams. They’re really helpful.
It's interesting that you're saying this makes the throttle more linear. My understanding was that the BRZ has a linear throttle map while the GR86 is non-linear (eg, you push the pedal 20% and it tells the computer you're pushing 40%).
Does the Pedal Commander allow you to set a manual map and set it to 1-to-1 so it's 100% linear?
It doesen't. It still is dependent on the ECU "gaps".
ex. if it's a 20% pedal to 40% throttle opening, with this device it will be a 20% to 60% opening (the 40% + 20% for example).
It will never be a 1-1 if the map of the car isn't.
@@Vanessinha91Pucca I don't think i fully understand, are you saying that we can't achieve more linear throttle response by lowering the sensitivity because we need to end up on 100%-100% with pedal fully pressed?
EDIT: I think i got what you mean, there is only so much we can do with this system because it goes to the ecu in the end and looks up a throttle response map. eg. if it is coded there that 20%-40% and 25%-60%then we are loosing too much resolution for if we wanted to use that 40 to 60% however we want it
@@kjyu Yes, exactly.
No, neither of them are linear, nor was the older gen cars, and honestly neither is almost any naturally aspirated 4cyl. Linear throttle is quite a big myth with small engine cars. Perhaps that come from people who drive automatics, and THINK that cars have linear throttle because when they put the throttle all the way to the top, no matter the gear they get more power - thats because the gears are changing and not because the throttle mapping in gear is different, but it 'feels' more linear.
@@Blight-fp3vt Cable throttles and specially carburetor cars are linear. What you open (the throttle body) the cable will give.
I played around with a Sprint Booster on a Lexus, but I've read varying reports of check engine lights from using these type of devices. It does make a difference but that rev hang is still pretty nasty. The new FA24 has power but it feels kind of lazy. Not as eager as a Miata. Fingers crossed for some good tunes in the near future, while we still can tune cars.
I also just traded in my 2022 cx-30 for a 2020 Toyota 86gt about a week ago. When I heard you say that I was like “omg me to 😁😭”. Awesome video, I’m definitely subscribing. Thank you for the content.
I could also recommend sprint booster, it has same functions as pedal command, I have a Mazda 3, and I didn’t know how laggy my throttle response was until I installed sprint booster. When it is on it gives me instant torque and acceleration, make driving so much easier , because you don’t have too work too hard with your leg to push the pedal all the way to the floor to get going or passing or making a right turn from the middle lane😂
I honestly think that the factory throttle mapping is fine (2023 model at least) , when it does not "make adjustments". No cable throttle is exactly linear either and depends on the cam profile of the cable pulley.
The big issue I am noticing is with the filtering, particularly on 1st to 2nd shift. There's a definite "dead throttle" for a moment that makes you press the pedal more andethefore lurch forward. Similar thing happens when you are rolling in first, off the clutch at idle RPM. When adding throttle from this condition, there also a bit of dead throttle that makes you lurch. And rev matching is also being filtered, whict is annoying.
Otherwise, the throttle is actually pretty responsive. You can even hear the intake snort when you blip it. So once again, they made something right and then made it worse on purpose.
You described it perfectly, I thought mine had a bug but seems to be across the board
@@supraJZA80s Yeah, it's really annoying once you realize that it is very capable without the "nannies" (((
You actually really described my situation perfectly. I wasn't sure how to explain it and you just did. Have you tried the pedal commander he was talking about? If not you have any idea on what could help mitigate the "dead zone" the car has
Very informative. Thanks for this video. Im test driving a GR86 in two days and this was one of the things thats making me hesitant about the car.
i had the pedal commander on my v6 tacoma before it got totaled 1 year from last week it worked like a charm with it and made driving it fun, i had a lil bullydog gt platinum tuner module also...im not really sure it did anything for it but you never know, i never had any problems, i have a 10th gen civic si now that im getting one for.
I did also notice that you got rid of the fake engine sound- it sounds so much better than factory!
I had a hard time getting used to my Brz at first when I got it in August after daily driving my Honda prelude for near a year in a half. The slight delay was so much different from the cable driven prelude.
I’ve got to try one of these on my C7 MT. Lots of power available but that slight lag feeling off the line gets annoying.
TY Topher old man.
To me the clutch is too light/assisted, and the accelerator pedal map is too aggressive, I.e you get what feels like 100% throttle command at 30% throttle application. I’d much prefer to have a near linear pedal to throttle position. What it sounds like you’re describing to me is an issue with a heavy flywheel, where it takes too long for the engine to rev up for heel and toe so you feel like you have to mash the peddle, but then you also get rev hang if you over do it. At least this is my experience with my GR86! Does this pedal commander allow you to change the throttle map to get a linear throttle pedal or is it only increasing/delaying the response?
I have 2 roar pedal throttle controllers 1 for my 2021 redeye hellcat challenger and 1 for my 2019 supercruise CT6 PLATINUM Twin turbo ..It makes the vehicle more fun to drive n quicker acceleration,, I neva regret my purchase, plus I get way far greater gas mileage in eco mode💯
have to admit i always thought pedal commanders were BS but its cool to see it actually do something.
I've been driving a 2 door JK wrangler with a 6 speed manual for a while. I'm now considering this thing because these jeeps with the fly-by-wire have terrible throttle response.
So many people buy these for the Altima and say it’s a day & night difference.
I installed the sprint booster on my laggy BMW 328i and it def feels as it should have come from the factory. I use race 7 for everyday driving, anything higher and the auto transmission feels like it's pulled hard of the line.
I wish I could learn to do this for my life like daily drive cars and Just talk about it love it
hearing this makes me laugh. every new 86/brz video says this car is perfect. thank you.
I've noticed I have throttle lag from a start as well as immediately after shifting to second in my GR86. I might pick one up, although I am already used to the stock throttle map.
They have a 30 day trial period which is nice 👍
@@TheTopher would you still believe this to be a great daily mod?
Loved the video Topher
All Subaru's from the past gen or two need these throttle response tools. They definitely dull the initial throttle response from factory. Probably an EPA MPG thing they are trying to build into the cars.
I think some cars limit the throttle body action at lower RPMs to prevent damage to the engine. Will this open it more than it should and cause extra stress on the engine?
Throttle commanders don't bypass the ECU. They just simulate different pedal mappings. So it shouldn't be possible for this to cause any damage you couldn't already do with your foot
@@404nobrakes Thanks for the explanation
@Saurabh Kulkarni can do vs. would do. Sure you can emulate this throttle response by plunging your foot into the accelerator. But I'm guessing they bank on you not doing that...however I'd guess the throttle response is more to do with mpg than engine life.
@TheTopher - I got a 2023 Subaru BRZ Manual, and the Bluetooth now connects to phone via no wire! Not sure if it will work in yours, but just a thought :).
Oh sweet! That’s great to know 👍👍
@@TheTopher Yeah pretty sweet. So much more convenient. I'm curious if yours will work. Maybe you can throw it in a video on one of your next BRZ vids. Thanks for this vid, very informative as well!
Its really weird how mushy the throttle is below 3500. I swear there are times I go to blip it and nothing happens.
Really???? Haven’t driven one yet and I’m in the market for a GR86. First I’m hearing of it tell me more please
My 2012 accord with 5 speed will do this. Seems like its a problem with electronic throttle. Literally have blipped for a downshift and got nothing. Or get barely any rpms or sometimes too much.
@@DOOMLORDHOKAGE when starting at a light, I stall fairly often because the engine refuses to put in gas. Same with blipping for downshifting. I've adapted by literally flooring it and then pulling back for starts and blips.
totally, if I'm on a street with speed bumps sometimes I'll slow down and go over the bump in neutral then blip throttle to shift into 2nd - and nothing happens! have to almost double blip it to wake it up, going to look into one of these.
@@alexandram9477 If it's inconsistent, I don't see how this would help, as all it does is changes a fixed input signal to a fixed output signal.
7:40 it’s more Miata like 😂
I have the same problem with my ‘17 brz. But been considering look into pedal commander
Curious if you ended up getting this? If you did, did it help you ?
I can see what you mean by sport mode feeling more "miata-like". When you downshift in stock mode the rev matching seems lazier than my nd2, but in sport mode it looks a lot closer.
Why not do an ecu tune instead? You'd probably be able to get a more aggressive throttle curve while also eliminating any rev hang and lag you're facing. Don't wanna risk the warranty?
There still aren't really tunes available yet. The ecu has just been cracked from what I understand. CSG is offering in-house dyno tunes to BRZ/GR86, but ecutek for example does not yet have an off-the-shelf tune yet. Thats when it will really become ubiquitous.
I was so upset that I never read or heard about this issue when I bought mine. That and the almost gated style shifter isn't my favorite. Honestly my $750 civic, shifted and was more fun to rev match than my 16' FRS.
Would love to try this on my VA WRX with its jumpy throttle
Get a tune
Current VA owner. Cobb Stage 1 smoothed it out for my 2017
So I do have Cobb stage 1 and it does help but I'm curious how something like this would do
It would be really sweet if the Pedal Commander could be controlled from your stereo touchscreen.
You can at least control it from the Pedal Commander module. It's just a little box on the end of a cable with three buttons to change the mode and sensitivity. Using the app is unnecessary.
So glad I found this, I have a 2023 and was really puzzled by the throttle response and thought it was something I was doing wrong. Thought that although I grew up driving stick but hadn't owned one in a while that I was just a little rusty. Fast forward a year of ownership and I'm still not driving it as smoothly as I drove my Miata and now I'm kinda ticked off and disappointed that the stock tuning is so bad. Why Subaru? I mean it's such a great car how do you blow it that bad on the tuning? Is there a reason they did it that way?
I put a Sprint Booster on my RS5. It didn't throw any errors but I noticed a huge flaw. If the revs were falling (like rolling up to a red light) and you punch the gas (the light turns green before you reached a stop), there was a horrible delay. The throttle was literally dead for 2 seconds before the car would wake up. I turned the device off, hoping to return it to stock. Nope. Still had a massive delay in certain situations. The I fully removed the device and the car was finally back to stock and the horrible delay was gone.
Now I'm considering a Pedal Commander but am worried I might run into similar issues.
All in the name of mpgs, my 08 hhr ss I'd blip the throttle to downshift, my 15 mazda 3 I have to floor the throttle to rev match
Weird. I have a 5MT IS300 and it has this exact same issue with its hybrid cable/dbw throttle system. Why do they feel the need to put a low pass filter on the throttle? It just makes the car drive worse. I drove an E92 M3, which is 100% dbw and there were no throttle response issues.
interesting. I always thought I needed to be just at a higher rpm and I was always tryna accelerate in a too low of gear... this might be something I might change tho in this car... I'm like you Ive kept everything stock.. but these types of changes... I'm interested in lol
I’ve been thinking about one of these for my bone stock 18 Sti 🤔
But when tuning comes out will you still need a throttle controller such as this one because I know throttle timing can be adjusted with ECU tuning also does the throttle controller void the warranty?
Throttle controller means more fuel means keep your spark plugs and fuel injectors clean.
will these help reduce rev hang?
If you don't mind me asking, did you go to any advanced driving school (racing schools), and if you did, which one did you attend to get better at track driving
Love these videos man!!
Does the BRZ have SI-Drive? Subaru has fixed this problem in some of their other models by offering a very responsive, Sport mode and the reduced throttle, Intelligent mode
Does this get rid of throttle hang? My crosstrek has awful throttle hang and it makes it difficult to shift smoothly. I had many standard transmission cars and never had this much trouble doing smooth shifts.
Awesome Video Topher! Quick question:
Did you find a difference in tone from removing the charcoal filter?
Brz and gr86 throttle response is different right? Maybe your tuning towards gr86?
Haven’t noticed a difference between the two tbh
I wonder if it's the same issue on the last gen FRS/86/BRZ. I've noticed that when starting from first, it's too easy to chirp tires.
No, its the opposite. When the revs are low, the pedal feels unresponsive and mushy.
I understand that the device doesn't increase power (Because it doesn't increase the amount of air or fuel) but with the sport mode, which increases the throttle response, does the car feel faster? If not, why is that?
You should really try stock sport mode button, it’s definitely an improvement on throttle response
there is no sport mode on a manual BRZ
this is going to be a really silly question, but do you think this would smooth out 1 and 2 on a manual subaru crosstrek?
Not a silly question. I'm wondering the same for my 2019 WRX
Do you think the previous generation can benefit from this?
could you make a video that how to drive manual car for us? and your driving style also. that would be nice contents for your channel on youtube.
Would it help with a manual transmission 2023 Crosstrek rev hang & throttle response?
So stock throttle I find the first 1/3 of the travel really unresponsive and the remainder of it fairly good. Does the commander make the whole throttle travel linier or does it still have the same uneven sections so to speak? Does the commander just exaggerate the inputs?
If it were this easy to improve throttle response without harming reliability, wouldn't Toyota and Subaru have made this the built-in default 'Sport' tune? For this reason, personally I'd never install one of these in my vehicle.
I agree ,in fact I think every product every manfacturer has ever made has been perfect and never in need of improvement. Personally, you know.
It’s to help with fuel economy, just like the rev hang present on most manual transmission cars these days
The only drive by wire throttle Subaru has ever tuned well imo is the new 2022 WRX.
@@jonboy602 I think you are misinterpreting my point. I'm not saying that stock cars are perfect. I'm simply casting doubt on a cheap little bolt on accessory solving a challenge that Toyota and Subaru throw millions of dollars at every year. You seriously think the guys at Pedal Commander are superior to the engineers at Toyota? If that were the case, big auto would have already acquired them.
@@Monkeyseemonkey79 the difference is that for most people, this throttle mapping is better because they're less likely to give it too much gas on accident. The fact that you watch Topher and care about something like throttle mapping makes you a Crazy Enthusiast™️ and Toyota/Subaru aren't actually catering to you.
would this help a cvt's bad throttle response? spirited driving in my prius gets a little hard with the throttle.
Will this void out the car’s warranty?
Been looking around at various reviews of the P.C.. I don't have a BRZ, my car is a 2021 Legacy Touring XT with the 2.4 turbo and the CVT. I don't like the power delivery. Its so uneven, surges back and forth at times during moderate acceleration and has rough fake shifts if I come down on the throttle even a little hard. Many reviews have mention that in both the Outback XT and Legacy XT models. Wondering if Pedal Commander can help with that. I've checked with my dealer and he said there are no software updates for it.
Hi Topher,
Do you remember if the pre 2022 WRX had a weird throttle tuning as well thus making it difficult to drive smoothly? Is this a Subaru thing with tuning?
Most subarus have horrible tuning, which is why every guy has a cobb in it, and eventually a blown engine.
That's just a Subaru thing. Especially 1st to 2nd.
Might have to pick this up for my GR86. $300 tho idk.
I am surprised Subaru didn’t pay more attention to this when resting their pre-production model of this car perhaps, you’d think they would have given who this car is for.
I’m no expert when it comes to this particular subject but I am very interested and always have been since I was a small boy; my Dad at the time worked in the Paint Shop on Ford’s models.
When are you getting hold of the Luxury BMW that Chris & Charlie from Daily Motor tested (out in Palm Springs California) to test (I wanted to as).
I look forward though to more on your BRZ and this one was interesting also!
It’s been an issue for years in Subaru vehicles, one of my biggest issues with the previous gen FRS and WRX have been the absolutely lazy throttle tuning. My 2013 FRS I kept full stock and always had issues being smooth. Then my 2016 STi was pretty garbage until I did a Cobb tune. Once I did that it felt like it definitely smoothed out the throttle and made it far more controllable.
Its emissions related. Throttle response has dead areas because studys show that fast transitions produce more emissions. Its crazy what they will sacrifice just to save a few grams of emmission related gasses.
yay brz content
Are you not supposed to restart the car after changing the settings? I heard it could cause limp mode
is adding this relativly the same as clicking sport mode on my car? or would it still show improved results?
Can the modes be changed while driving because a representative says it will cause problems like causing the pedal to go into limp mode
You need to do a video in must have mods
Do you know why you'll hear a raspy sound like a light gear grinding noise when you shift into gears after revving at a higher RPM? I thought my brand new GR86 had something broken but noticed the same happens on your BRZ.
its actually resonation within the factory exhaust manifold, right when you let off throttle for the upshift. these cars have zero sound deadening, so you really get to hear every little noise. you can hear the synchros work in the transmission as well if you listen closely.
Has the pedal commander activated your SOS feature? My Banks pedal monster constantly activates my SOS feature.
Hi. I've been on the fence about buying a Pedal Commander. I think the idea is great but have read articles and watched videos of numerous problems including check engine lights, limp mode, and stuck or wild acceleration. I have a 2017 Camaro SS which has been issue free. Worth the risk or pass?
Haven’t had any issues with mine, but tbh the Camaro doesn’t really need a pedal commander. Stock throttle tuning and drive mode adjustability is very well done from the factory. .
Do these type of devices have any negative impact on longevity/reliability of the car?
Throttle response is about the only thing I’m not thrilled about with my BRZ.
No it will be fine. All it does is act as a middleman between the throttle pedal and the engine computer.
The car won't do anything that can damage it just by having it.
As a gross simplification with one of these devices fitted you might be pressing the pedal 10% of its travel but the device tells the computer you're actually pressing it 40% of its travel
@@Jake-im2lv Great, thanks!
what's your driving impression of the BRZ after driving the FL5?
Driving impressions on Tuesday!
I picked one of these up but having trouble disconnecting the cable for the throttle. Any pointers?
Where under the dash did you mount it? I'm trying to find a good spot where it's hidden and out of the way but it's so crowded under there.
Not sure if you noticed but your foot was depressed on the clutch at the stop, bad for the clutch
Thoughts on the Pedal Commander vs the Sprint Booster?
Topher!! High five!
thoughts on pedal commander after six months of ownership?
Still enjoying kit 👍
Please make the pedal cam a mainstay
Was this video filmed with the original exhaust? I know your active sound controller is disabled as is mine, but my car doesn't sound so good when flooring. It sounds more like a sport air filter other than a charcoal filter removed, am I correct? Thank you! 🙃
Yeah, stock exhaust, charcoal filter removed, and I also took out the sound insulation panel on the underside of the hood. That helped bring a bit more engine noise into the cabin.