$450 vs. $2200 Wheels & Tires - Budget vs. Baller Episode 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ธ.ค. 2021
- When it comes to wheels and tires there are so many options of what to buy that it can be quickly overwhelming. Do you need carbon hoops with hubs that engage in an instant or will regular old alloy do just fine? Do tires actually matter? After all, they are just rubber, right? Well, today we're going to find out as Jason pits his $2200 set up against Henry's $450 set up.
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This video was entertaining, but steps away from the stated goal of this series being similar to Donut Media's Hi-Lo series. While the wheel comparison was legitimate and helpful, no sane person knowledgeable enough to set a bike up tubeless would ever install those tires. Hi low was never about installing rock bottom upgrades, but value upgrades. Conti Trail Kings, at $30.55 at Jenson would have been a much more useful comparison.
If the budget fork you guys choose is a Suntour coil, or a Buckloos or something, that'd be a real shame. A Rockshox 35 Gold or something else not terrible vs a Fox 36 would be a legit comparison.
Totally agree. They had a very productive conversation about the relative value and performance of the two wheelsets, but the tire comparison was just irrelevant. Everyone knows that assegai’s are great, and everyone knows that no name tires suck.
Agreed. They should stick to "Budget" items made by reputable companies, not "heap of crap no-name item" vs Baller. Donut has missed the mark on Hi-Lo before, so I'm confident PinkBike can get back on Value-for-money Vs Baller. Instead of making the budget bike turn into a heap of junk that helps no one make a decision on where to pinch and where to spend.
True.
Not to mention if they change the fork to a suntour coil it gets worse. You would be better off if you gave the existing one a good service, perhaps upgrade the damper if something more recent fits in there.
Yeah, didn´t take them long to ruin the video series completely
Love the idea of this series.
Kinda wish they went with slightly better tires on the budget bike though. I can’t justify $2k on wheels but I can justify $60-80 on tires and I imagine a lot of people are share the same point of view as me.
The extreme is kinda ridiculous
Yes it’s going to compound every future choice if they stay with the same skinny tyres.
Yeah, I don’t like that choice. If anything, one variable at a time. So tired should have been identical to compare budget to baller wheelsets.
Done on purpose to try and sell people overpriced wheels.
yeah definitely, I rode a minion dhf up front and a dhr 2 back on a shitty hardtail that costs like 300 euros new, still worth every penny
maybe you should change back the tires to an "average" minion dhf and dhr on the low bike after proving cheap tires are a waste of money. because the further upgrades can't be compared properly with these tires and the lack of safety they provide
Definitely, there is already a huge difference in feel and price between a doubledown maxgrip assegia and one that’s exo dual compound
You guys missed a great opportunity to try the Delium tires you posted about on the website. $35 tires from an OEM manufacturer who makes more expensive tires for other brands would have been right in line with Budget vs. Baller :(
Yeah, going too cheap can be pretty bad in these videos. If the upgrade is worse than the original its not an upgrade...
I bought rock hawks they where 25 usd each after tax and they where 2.85 wide I think and they where actually really meaty and nice I never had them slip
Clearly done to keep the wheel sponsor happy. Off my list of channels. I'll go watch Hi-Lo instead.
@@user-yv2cz8oj1k how is saying a product is trash, which is what they said about the Mike Bears tires, going to keep them happy? Your comment makes no sense. And if you were talking about the wheel and not the tire then you still don't make sense because most everyone in the comments agrees with their choice of wheels.
@@NonLegitNation2 took you 3 months to reply, try to keep up newb.
I like how the floorpump actually matches the color of the frame…didn‘t even notice it
Instead of those off-brand tires a sensible choice would definitely be something like the Bikepark version of Schwalbe Magic Marys which may be a little bit more expensive but you get a premium thread and real sideknobs
I agree. Tires are literally among the best, if not the best money spend for better riding. It doesn't make much sense to get the absolutely cheapest, as spending just a tiny bit more would already give very good performance in return.
What's a bike park version?
@@Goodman-4525 It is the cheapest version available of Schwalbe (and also Michelin) tires, with wired beads, a rubber compound a bit harder than usual as they are intended to last. In Europe they cost around 30€ each.
@@pabloechaniz8623 yup. i have a michelin do 34 bike park on my bike and i’ve been running it for almost a full year
I use wire bead DHR II's. Kinda heavy but I honestly can't feel a difference when I'm bombing down the trails. Tubes aren't a problem as well because I'm 213lbs. and run my tires at 24 and 28 psi front and rear.
A cheap wheel/tyre setup definitely doesn’t mean cheapest tyre. For a few dollars more at Jenson a much better combination was available at the bottom end of this ‘dual’. Never mind, the series is great and this episode should be seen as a learning opportunity…
Pity, didn´t take them long to ruin the video series
I think to low gut to high wheels but to low tires.
It’s a miss. Hope they adjust the series appropriately
Never an excuse to put cheap tires on regardless of wether its a bike or car, It's the part that keeps you safe
Yea if your brakes fail that's shit but uf your tires faul you cant even treer out of danger
this is turning into one of the best series pinkbike has done , props guys
Omg yeeaaaah
I would love to see how Henry put those boost hubs to a non-boost bike.
I'm surprised a suspension service wasn't the first step...
I bet thy change it all out.
I have a feeling they are saving suspension for last as it is likely the change most people are interested in. It will undoubtedly have the biggest effect, and I question the validity of wheel and tire reviews with blown suspension, but i'm not the one looking for views.
Because that won't give Jenson any sales
@@kiltymacbagpipe I bet they do too, which is a shame; a simple service would help both bikes out quite a bit, and could be compared to swapping out with budget options for a real world comparison
“Does Mike Bear make grips?” Loving it. We should all strive to be 1% as good-humoured as Henry.
DT Swiss hubs on Spank rims....won't break the bank, but still offer great performance 👍
New internals for the fork...
Marzocchi coil out back...
Guide RE brakes w/ sintered pads...
SLX 11 speed drivetrain - solid and workman like...
(Tyres) Exo+ front, DD back...
Contacts!?
Chromag grips...
Bontrager saddle...
Some synthetic flat pedals...
Series is making me miss my ole '17 Reign 2!!
Such a weapon on the descents 🤘
PS - put those whips on some black lines 😁
Love this series as it's relatable to so many riders, especially during this pandemic when upgrading your bike is your only real option to improve your ride. Looking forward to the rest of the series!
Loving this comparison guys!
First series on TH-cam I’ve actually been waiting to see sequels!
This is a fantastic series, along with the Ben Cathro 'How to bike', one of the best of Pinkbike
Should have used the nukeproof horizon wheels for the budget wheelset ! Those wheels are sick
They are sponsored by jenson
@@lukerisser9163 ah no wonder, wasted haha
Or a pair of Shimano wheels
Or Hunt wheels, they kill it on bang for the buck and have a high engagement hub on a $500 set of wheels
Best sounding hub on the Horizons.
Hopefully as this series continues, the budget bike could build the final thought build (budget wheels + good tires) just so they can keep the variables of product testing clear and concise to that one test. budget cockpit + bad tires will make riding even worse. Like others said, wish they didn't do bottom of the barrel tires imo
The point is to always improve the item from stock. its about upgrade, so you need better or the same tires, and people often let tires go for cheap or free.
This is a fun, and educational series! Thanks guys!
Those Bontrager Line 30 Comp wheels with RapidDrive hubs came on my Fuel EX 8 and they're pretty bloody good. I've upgraded the hub to 108POE and that's near instant, they're fantastic!
Very much enjoying this series!
Great idea for a series! Looking forward to the other upgrades!
Im sure you know this, but you Dont have to spend lots on a hub to get high engagement. Spank/Nukeproof make a very good, high engagement hub for a mid level budget.
I don't get the hype for a HE-hub. I've ridden ones with high engagement and very low engagement. The feel is different, but I don't think the higher engagement gives you any advantages, other than in some very specialised applications.
If you can find a Spank hex drive, they are very hard to find. the i9 1:1 hub is $60 more expensive than the spank, so is still decent on bang for buck, at least when compared to something like i9 hydras or Onyx hubs
@@th_js it just feels so good, I doubt it makes any actual difference in making a climb or not etc. but low engagement does feel crappy when you experience high engagement, it doesn't have to be super high imo, anything over 40t is acceptable, but under I start to notice it much more than I'd like.
@@piciu256 I understand that, I've heard others say that too. For me it's just not a big deal, although I do prefer a bit more engagement, than less, but I can ride anything just fine, takes about 10 seconds to get used to it. Also a very high/instantaneous engagement might have a negative effect on suspension-performance, in theory, and depending on the bike.
@@th_js doesn't do jack shit for suspension, if you're going quick enough, the freehub doesn't engage, and if you're going slow enough to get pedal kickback, it doesn't matter if it engages one or 2 degrees sooner or later.
I will say that when commuting etc. I don't even notice how much free play there is on the cranks (I mean I do, when moving off, but as you said you adjust really quickly) but I do definitely notice it when riding technical terrain, and I definitely prefer higher vs lower, I haven't ridden "instant" engagement yet, "only" 100.
Keep going! I just bought a giant reign frame 2016. I love these episode!
Love this series
Loved the idea.👍 Obviously we've all learned $2k rims are not worth it and that a $150 tire upcharge may be one of the most important investments you can do. Put on a value tire, not a piece of crap and run the test again. You're gonna lose alot of watchers if you don't.
Liking the series so far chaps.
Another well done vid - cheers !
Yes, I loved it!! Sick video Dudes!!
Loving this series! As stated by others, budget friendly good choices would be more ideal (no knock to the legend Mike Bear). Henry and Jason as a duo are awesome!
Loved it keep up the good work!
one wheel set i highly recommended are the spank 350 vibrocore/359 vibrocore. They are super strong enduro/dh wheels that have extremely good vibration dampening properties (spank puts foam inside their rims) and the wheels have 102 points of engagement. The one downside to some people is that they aren’t the lightest but for $700 they’re extremely good and couldn’t recommend them enough
I hope Henry isn't stuck with Mike Bear for the rest of the series.
Love these series🥰🔥
Henry's the boy!!! And the track pump upgrade is awesome!!
I love this series. I can’t believe you rode with a floor pump strapped to the frame. That’s freaking hilarious 😂.
Those Bontrager rear hubs can be fit with a pawl/spring upgrade kit to get a high engagement, inexpensive wheel set.
Come with the upgrade now
Love this budget vs baller idea!!
I have a 2022 Kenevo SL Comp. I left the standard aluminum wheels on. Plus the standard front hub but changed the rear hub for the Industry Nine Hydra hub with the 690 points of engagement. After going with an ultra-hight engagement hub on my last bike I couldn't go with anything less. When I ride a bike with a regular engagement hub the power lag drives me crazy. It is like driving a car with really bad turbo lag or watching a movie in which the audio lags a couple of seconds behind the video.
Henry is the best addition to the team in a long time.
This series is so sick
Pink bike content is on point!
Industry 9s & Chris Kings... Damn, the Rolex of Hubs!
I would actually add 3 more teeth to those monty line comp30 wheels and get that premium engagement, costs like 20-30$ and doubles the engagement. That wheelset seems like really good value actually
18 bucks
i have the line elite carbon wheel on the back for the extra hub engagement compared to my speced wheels, but i had a previous trek bike with bontrager wheels and had absolutely no issues. Especially the carbon ones are a good value, with a lifetime warranty.
Loving the series so far guys, great job! First mod out the gate though should have been a full service tune-up with shock/fork rebuild. That would have done wonders for both of these bikes and should be the first thing a person does when buying a new to them bike. Also it would be interesting to see Quinn and Jason switch bikes so we can see how their times compare and how they interpret each upgrade with a direct comparison. Last thing, not sure what camera is producing that super noisy footage but it would definitely help running it through the Davinci Resolve Studio denoiser. That thing can work wonders!
I bought a set of wheels from a local builder last year. I9 hydra, DT aluminum rims, and sapim spokes. Less than $1000 out the door including tax. Why go cheap, it doesn't pay in the end.
I run those bontrager wheels, great entry level set, would highly recommend!
LOVE my Onyx rear hub. Total silence. Instant engagement.
The recommendation is exactly what I ride, basic wheels with top shelf tires. Love the series so far, and not just because it validates my decision. Looking forward to drivetrain and rear shock.
Tires are always the most underrated component of any wheeled vehicle be it human powered or motor powered. They are the only thing transmitting all the forces of the vehicle to the ground. A great way to save some $$ though is to keep an eye out for sales on good tires, I was able to get a set of Kendas that were normally ~$40 each for a total of $27 for the set and free shipping.
Boost wheelset with the non-boost frame? How did that fare out?
I'm actually impressed that you managed to find tires that cheap! Did you have to pump them to 40 just to make sure they wouldn't rip right off the rim?
For stability.
The sidewalls wasnt stable enough
I really think Henry needs to do the 108p hub upgrade on those bontrager wheels. Costs about $20
The tire handle KILLED me!!!!!
Did anyone else notice that Jason was wearing 2 rain jackets during the ride lol sick series chur pinkbike!
wut you can install boost ws on non boost frame and fork? amazing
I love this!
The Bontrager wheels are pretty good and if you want more POI get an bontrager paw kit for a E20,- and get instead of the standard 3 a whopping 6 108 POI. very easy to install and maintain as well.
wow wake stem and bars. can't wait to see the next episode
I picked up some nice last season tires (specialized purgatory and butcher) for my loaner bike that were new for like 37 for both (not including shipping, add another 10-15). Granted they were not a highly sought after size, but I still noticed some great deals on last or two season ago rubber that budget minded riders should certainly check out as opposed to crappy budget tires.
Option number three: buy used. I bought a set of EX1501s for 250 euros from a friend and ended up having another set laced around an old DT 240s I bought for 30 euros off Ebay (non boost though). High level stuff for entry level prices…
Higher engagement makes a significant difference powering up steep climbs with little notice.
Just did exactly that. Industry 1/1 hubs, W33i Syntace Rims with some good rubber.
Great series! Probably already been said but both should have the same tyre like a DHF that has a wire bead single compound, and put it up against a 3C EXO+/DD etc. The dual compound EXO casing Maxxis tyres are a genuine budget choice.
what is actually the difference between a Tubeless tire and a non Tubeless Tire. Like I have Tires that are brand new but not really from a tubeless era (Onza 2017) and i was wondering if i can fit them tubeless
Reminds me of Donut media "hi and low" series on TH-cam.
We NEEDED something like this for bikes, awesome
I do agree with the comments about the tyres, with high lo they do use stuff that is good but also budget friendly, there are some cheap options from Schwab, even the entry level Maxxis tyres would have been a good choice as you can compare if going with the expensive or budget versions of the same tyres is better or not
I like that you're actually honest in your end choice. At donut I was a bit disappointed. Nolan and James, in the discussion, felt like marketing. They discussed ike "cheap is better on this part" or "expensive for that part", but in the end they would both chose the expensive ones almost the entire time, although at least one of them was like "I like the cheap one better". So props to you
Excellent review at the end though
I feel accomplished knowing that I could set up tubeless way better than both of them
OK now, I can't seat a tire on the bead with a floor pump....
BUT, that's because I'm using some 2013 diamondback bottom shelf rims with gorilla tape. NEVER meant to be tubeless, lol.
Little puff puff from the compressor seats right up and I have ZERO issues with burping or blowing the bead, just the initial seat and seal takes like 5 minutes of extra work.
I'm trying to understand the premise here with Henry's bike. And I'm looking forward to some of the other components but arguably you are looking for cheapest "upgrades" right? Not cheapest components period. So you are showing how to build the most horrible bike ever. It should be Henry upgrades/fixes his current components. Would hate to see him ditch the lyrik in favor of a suntour spring fork when you could just do a service on it or get a fresh damper.
same I thought the idea was to see what legitimate upgrades can be made for each price point, not downgrading one and upgrading the other
I don’t understand why he didn’t just put tubes in his tires like any normal person?
"Does Mike Bear make grips?" lololol
The best part was the i9 carbon wheelset (plus new tires) didn't bring the weight down at all.
Very excited about this series!
Yeah a lot of people have the misconception that carbon is always lighter. Carbon will be stronger for a given weight, but a strong carbon wheel will still be heavier then a weaker alloy wheel.
The tires are tanky AF. That's where the weight was
Good rubber is surely one of the best ways to transform bike.
Or bad ruber is a safe way to ruine a bike...
Yes and yes.
My dear ones... in month of march (each new year) get Maxis max. 50$ tires suitable to your road, get new cables and discs+brake pads, new fluids and gaskets, new cheap bearings and 20$ for local beer and sweets. This is what you need, a proper maintenance no matter the price or geometry of the bike... btw i ride a 2013 AM model bike and it is a dream.
Does anyone have this 13:15 soundtrack title?
i had reign like this. love this bike ❤️
I would said budget tires should be Specialized or Continental.
The new Specialized tires are almost as expensive as Maxxis. Butcher T9 Gravity/Eliminator T7/T9 Gravity combo, which is what I'd run on this setup are $70 a tire
@@mrvwbug4423 yea I should of put down e*thirteen tires
exxxxxxcellent!
Could someone kindly give me the name of the track used at 15:03 thank you.
Nice video, although I do think you could have bought the simple Continental Trail Kings for the budget bike for pretty much the same price.
I trust the Mike Bears went into the dumpster as soon as that ride was over haha. Don't skimp on tires. I would've recommended Michelin Wild Enduros, but they are now as expensive as Maxxis and Schwalbe. Specialized tires are creeping up there too. Bontrager or Kenda might still be a good option if you can't stomach paying $100 for a set of tires.
That floor pump on Henry's bike totally killed me LMAO
"Maxxis opposite the valve." Phew. I feel better already.
This reminds me of the Low Team coilovers that were so bad they needed replaced. Budget tires might need replacing just so future tests aren't affected. lol
Yet on the Low vs High Tacoma series, they basically couldn't tell the difference between the cheap-ish Bilstien setup on the low truck and the mega buck coil-overs on the high truck
The bontrager line comp wheels are honestly great, had them on my last bike, and never had a issue, or case... that they could not take. Also you can buy a small upgrade kit for I think 25 euro's that upgrades from 3 points to 6, making engagement great. If you put those maxxis on those bontragers then you have great grip and a good alu wheel.
Yup, the line 30s are what basically comes on most alloy wheel Treks from the factory. Not sure if they're identical to the Roval Traverse and Giant AM30 (a lot of the big 3 house brand stuff is identical save for branding)
My last build of Hadley with Flow MK3 was about $550 with butted spokes and alloy nipples, got a deal on the rims and rear hub, built them myself. Kevlar TR Maxxis should be about $50-60, maybe they are more now, though I did get a few Tomahawks on closeout for like $25.
I really want a nice set of carbon wheels, but at the end of the day your tires are where you'll really see a difference. Wheels, unless they're really heavy, won't make you significantly faster, but carbon wheels do require less maintenance... until they crack at least. The carbon wheels on my road bike stay true all year usually, my old alloy wheels would get a little wobbly every other month.
Henry is still alive!!!!!
If you want more engagement with the bontrager wheels just buy the paw kit for 20 bucks. For someone who likes value for money and the local shop is a trek dealer has them at the top of my list
How durable is the Bontrager hub? House brand hubs can be very hit or miss, I know Giant and Specialized/Roval in house hubs are trash and they both use DT Swiss on their high end wheelsets. Meanwhile the Ibis in house hubs, while nothing special in terms of engagement, are extremely durable.
i love when all cogs are in play
Those bontrager wheels are surprisingly good and the engagement isn’t bad at all.
you should test just wheels, and keep good tires on both bikes (this is cheap upgrade)
Cool video. I think it would be better to compare a lower price name brand tire vs. whatever Henry had, but on the other hand when I worked in a shop I saw people that found the craziest cheap shit and I knew they were wasting their money so I guess it's good for that. I'd love to see comparisons between different carbon wheels. So much confusion for me on the different options (like which ones are good for a moderately aggressive rider like myself vs. a 20 year old pro rider).
Wheels, definitely the best area. It's the part that moves the most in a bike.
The tread pattern on Jason's tyres look exactly like my Tioga's from the 90's!
What is the rim tape for?