$450 vs. $2000 Suspension - Budget vs. Baller Episode 4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ม.ค. 2022
- There's no doubt that your suspension plays a huge part in how your bike rides, but do you need to spend all that extra money on fancy coatings and excessive dials? Well, today we're going to find out with Henry's $450 option versus Jason's $2000 option. What could go wrong?
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This is a great idea for a series. But, the cheap bike must have smart cheap upgrades, not downgrades.
I agree the tires shouldn’t have been upgraded same with the dropper. If it’s a downgrade for the low bike just keep it the same.
They don't understand the difference between cheap and inexpensive.
@@Cannibeasty feels like they're missing out on identifying with us... the people who want value for their money.. not necessarily Jenson sells
Agree 100% not all us budget builders are idiots, the parts on the budget bike have turned it into something now almost becoming not only unsafe, but also un-sellable
Totally agreed. The comparison, seems to be just for people to think when buying parts.
Maybe if they do this series again their “budget” option could be actual budget products from well known brands instead of Chinese knock off products.
that's not what jenson paid for apparently.
@@MzmdsTerror if the budget items also came from Jensen then it's a win/win for them. There's a lot more people out there that can afford the good budget options.
@@gtsimmo1 Nah, Jenson doesn't sell that crap. That is Ebay/Alibaba garbage.
@@mrvwbug4423 yeah - he sade CAME
Yea I'd have thought they'd have just serviced the yari and maybe replaced the damper with a charger rc2
This show should be renamed “broke vs baller” for what they are doing to Henry
Yep - could've easily gotten something like a decent Manitou budget fork like the Mattoc Comp or a Suntour Auron etc
Yet he stays strong through it 💪😉✨
downgrade vs upgrade
Yeah. Buying that cheap crap is just stupid.
@@ojanpohja it is yes.. but that I surely what this series is trying to display.
To highlight where buying the absolute budget product is just not the way to go but also where it would be applicable (saddle, grips, wheels ((to some extent)), pedals..)
For some people they cannot justify the use or expenses involved with premium products and hopefully this series shows where people should at least invest into the mid tier range instead of buying into the false economy of entry level components and I feel this series highlights it well.
Henry would have been way better off by just servicing the forks and maybe upgrading the damper which would have been a bit more expensive but way more sensible of an upgrade on a budget build
Would've also been cheaper
@@froz3ntree40 Rockshox Charger 2.1 damper kit upgrade is around $330 bucks. It's sooo worth it though - along with low friction SKF seals for about $18. You're _essentially_ converting a low-end Yari into a Lyrik Ultimate
@@jasper_of_puppets even replacing the whole fork with a second hand one in pristine condition would've been better as well. Got my 170mm 2019(?) Yari, upgraded(by the previous owner) to DebonAir B1 and Charger 2 for about 440$.
So yeah, pointless series from PB this time
I would indeed recommend upgrading the internals of the fork and servicing the rear end. but this is something that they seem to be doing a lot in this series: "he has decent parts on the bike (bar and stem to name some), but here is some cheap eBay shit we found to put on it"
Yea they went too far down on the fork selection. I mean who put those unknown brand if you have a Giant Reign to upgrade. Rockshox Yari or the 35 would been better choice and still considered as budget upgrade just around $500
I wish you guys would have used affordable parts from legitimate brands for the budget option. That would have been much more realistic and informative.
The “budget” bike should have been just the base bike, with minimal upgrades (maybe new tires of a similar caliber, fork, brake, drivetrain service) new dropper and cockpit for your preference, wheels on a budget. Not by taking nice parts that came on your bike to replace worn average parts with cheap parts you’d put on Walmart bikes as “upgrades”
Yup, the stock bike had stuff that would work just fine with nothing more than some fresh seals and a service.
the best upgrade for this fork would've probably been a new airshaft and a service. 50-80 bucks for a 'feels-like-new' fork
they really missed the boat on this
This series features the worst "budget" upgrades I've ever seen. I guess it could actually confuse people who are new to the sport and want to upgrade their bikes in a cost-effective way.
this series kinda misses the mark because everyone expected budget upgrades vs. baller upgrades on a decent used bike. Instead it's like stripping the entire frame and putting on the cheapest stuff they can find vs most expensive. Which is maybe a bit entertaining but not that informative
Yup. I'm over this series. Ruined the whole concept. Nobody watching these videos is going to use that crap. Worst of all Jenson offers a huge selection of parts from quality budget on up.
Agree
@@nodaysoff23 I honestly think it highlights that these super entry parts are often a false economy.. and I feel it makes that point well. Hopefully by the end of the series people that are entering the sport will realise where they can go cheap (wheels (to some extent), grips, saddle, pedals) and where to at least step up off the cheapest and go to perhaps lower to mid price/ performance range. At least at this range there usually isn't a false economy of buying multiple times over thinking the components are cheap and acceptable whereas they're just awful. ✌️😉✨
This budget parts look like something from Kev Central. I very much enjoy his channel where he upgrades big box bikes with these Amazon and Ali Express parts, but also some sensible parts like Microshift Advent X and the cheapeat Shimano hydro discs. This stuff works for his content, but is absolutely wrong here. I'd much rather see something comparing a $500 SR Suntour fork to the Fox Factory Kashima.
Next time make this show baller vs best price/performance low budget. Henry's old fork was better if he would have serviced it.
Exactly. A service would have cost half the new fork and resulted in better performance.
Every budget vs baller comment: We want to see value instead of just the cheapest..
Pinkbike: Yeah check out this 20$ fork!
The only problem with this series is that some of the budget upgrades are not sensible. It's either the case of the parts that were on the bike were better or spending just a little bit more and having way better parts
This. They shouldnt buy bad parts just because theyre cheap if they allready know those parts are bad. The inspiration for this series is donut medias one on cars and there even the cheap ones are are still sensible. Pinkbike is just trying to ruin the cheap bike. There is no question here which parts anyone would pick. Even just servicing the cheap bikes suspension parts would be much more sensible.
Absolutely agree! A full Service, maybe even a Charger Upgrade for the Fork would be sensible.
But... As seen on PB Academy we are not the ones who choose 🤷🏻♂️
Could have put a charger2.1(250€) and a debon air(40€) in the fork.would have been way better
They should be using low end "good" parts. Picking garbage will give you a crappy unsafe bike.
Better parts? You won't get super lightweight and reputable brands unless you go big spend. The difference in weight or quality on the cheap to midrange us very little so the cheaper end is ok.nid pick a cheaper bar and stem like Uno or FSA as they are reputable over the eBay stuff but in saying that I've seen those eBay bars on a guys bike for a few years.
It was a really interesting idea to see the split item by item between budget vs baller upgrades, but this is the same as the wallmart bike vs a superbike...
Agreed, they went way too cheap, it should be middle of the road MTB parts vs the top gear.
It should've been something like RockShox Yari, SRAM NX/GX, Raceface Chester pedals/cockpit, etc. vs. EXT Era, SRAM AXS, Enve cockpit, Pedalling innovations catalyst pedals, Cane Creek Ewings etc.
And for the tyres, something like Schwalbe Magic Mary Performance vs. Magic Mary Evolution.
This would miss the point of the video though. The whole point is to figure out where it’s worth it to spend a lot of money, and where it isn’t. For example, thus far in the series, we’ve learned that expensive tires are worth it, while pedals and grips aren’t.
@@blakee9690 not really, the sensitive budget option here is to service the fork, the whole chinese know off was for entretainment purpose only
That’s literally a downgrade… I bet a nice service to the lyric fork wld be a much more practical choice
sure but let's just say the fork was a shitty coil fork before... It's not about the bike in the video, it's about the bike everyone has at home
@@jojodroid31 noone has a 160mm enduro bike with even crappier parts on it than they put on henrys bike
Secondhand I could get a much better fork for similar price as the junk. I've seen different models of these cheap forks crack in the lowers the damper and air are closed cartridges, so can't serice it. And they gave up having lubricating oil in the lowers. The forks can have bad tolerances. They are sold under different names. I would avoid these fork. Get a secondhand fork or upgrade and service the existing fork. Or buy last year's or year before model of a Hugh end fork for cheap, so wait for those great deals that might come. I see less of them now in Norway, probably due to pandemic, but seen some.
Henry coming in with some bikeshop level tricks. Love it hahah
@AGNÉZ Buny Girls how do they ride though ?
@@jonbrown853 💀💀💀
Not bike shop level.... world cup dh tech level... learnt some great hacks from his GMBN tech vids.... like sram brake maintenance, service ans set up hacks/tips.
Love this series!
That Yari on Henry’s bike was a good fork. Should have just given it a service, would have been less than half the price of the new bad one!
Exactly - slap a new damper in it and you have a Lyrik.
And maybe a new damper still would’ve only been slightly more expensive 🤦♂️
So why you saying you love this series? You just said what they should have done, when they gave us this shit instead.
@@iffy_too4289 easy to disagree with one thing along the way and happy to watch the rest! :)
When your sponsored by the bike industry I guess a video showing that you can get 95 percent of the performance with a 3rd of the price would not be popular. So instead of showing the inteligent options they choose to sabotage the budget section with cr*p unknown chinese brands instead of the many reputable brands providing great budget options.
and then put in waaaay to much pressure in the cheap forks to make sure they dont perform well. i mean that wouldnt be acceptable, right :D
Exactly right. Don't show people that mid-grade stuff gets you almost all the way there. Even brand name lower end stuff is 75% as good as top-level components.
Maybe we give both of these bad boys a clean before we spend thousands of dollars on upgrading them (or hundreds of dollars on making them worse than when they started)
Yeah, I like to clean my bike whenever it’s time to install a new part.
Loving this series and adaption of the idea from Donut Media. For this episode, I do think a better budget option would have been the marzocchi bomber or possibly a budget RockShox fork. While they're admittedly probably a little more expensive, they'd still likely be about half the price of the fox fork for a much better fork. Just a thought though, keep up the great content!
It would also be realistic. No one is buying cheap Chinese forks for an "upgrade." Not only that, it was a downgrade from the previous fork and your average MTB'er would either service their current fork or buy something of quality and reputation in the more affordable range. This series is just one giant ad trying to convince people to upgrade to the highest end components.
Henry should have gone for a Suntour Aion or something like that. Something cheap but reputable, not some chinese weird stuff.
Also his fork seemed to have a bit to much air.
Since the bikes are similar, they should also switch bikes.
it feels kind of elitist this whole series
Too much air on delivery isn't a bad thing, it at least means they've been pressure tested before leaving the factory and haven't lost air while in transit/storage. While I wouldn't say it's a sign of good design/manufacture I'd say it at least shows a level of competence which is nice at the bargain bin price point
Wouldn't it be cheaper and better to just rebuild the suspension instead of buying questionable "wish"-like parts?
Bingo, the budget solution to a bad front fork is to buy a service kit and to do it yourself, unless there's damage to it or it's very old, that's what they should have done and the end result would probably have been that both of them would have went for servicing the suspension instead of buying 2000$ worth of it.
It would be really interesting to see a budget vs baller season about building a bike from the frame up
This is such a good series. I love that you are viewing it from the perspective of the casual rider and thereby keeping expectations realistic. Much appreciated!
I *love love love* this series! Henry and Jason do an amazing job. I'm impressed with the product selection and often surprised with the results. Great work guys!
Guys....it's way cheaper to just service the fork than replacing it!
Such a fun series. Love it guys!
really enjoying this series guys nice work!
Made my day to find Henry in MTB videos again, subscribed right away.
It would be cool to see a head to head on cheapo fork, vs rebuilt original, old original fork vs expensive fork, same track, same bike, both riders, this would put investment vs $$$ in perspective. Keep up the good content, it’s fun to see what can be done with older bikes.
Really enjoying this guys! Learning alot thank you
Budget vs. Baller?
No
Junk vs. Baller
Great way for Jenson to promo all the bells and whistles.
comparition should be between 2 forks from the same manufactor, like ZEB ultimate against entry level Domain.
Or 36 factory against rythm 36.
this video is pointless!
Your entirely correct. If your buying suspension for a bike, everyone is always going to spend at least 1k on front and rear combined and if you went baller you might spend 2k. I would have watched yari vs lyric instead and maybe a super deluxe select vs a super deluxe ultimate.
I love the honesty about the rear suspension and the forks. I also loved the comment about going for lower end dropper and drivetrain and investing in the front forks. Great series. My suggestion for the next series is to set a budget for the cheaper bike and cost the servicing and hours.
I would love to see a version of this where Henry is given a budget (maybe $1500, since they seem to be stripping it down to the frame), and gets to pick his parts and/or repairs. Then compare it to a balled out version
Thoroughly entertaining series. Agreed with the rest of the comments: use some budget, base level options as oppose to cheap knockoffs for the comparison.
Who is this helping? Parts that cost more than your bike are really good and parts from sketchy websites and Amazon without a legitimate brand name are crap, like who didn't already know that?
I was super excited to see an MTB version of Donut's Hi-Lo, especially with these 2 amazing presenters, but it's like they didn't even watch the series they're copying. Henry even said it at the beginning of the episode, they know these budget "upgrades" are terrible and they both said the rear shock service was the best option. They should have at least had a control bike that just got serviced instead of actively downgraded.
That himlo fork is a budget one, but it is pretty durable for the price tho… my friend has been using that for a year now since he bought his trail bike. He broke his stock fork and changed into that himalo fork, it works well, but not comparable to fox, rockshox opand any other high end mtb forks that bangs the buck
Jason can finally have a rideable fork
The slow-mo was super informative in this one! Can easily tell how the Fox tracks the ground, whereas the Lemonade Sticks would pack up and not rebound as readily.
They should have gotten a domain or something like that for the budget bike
Nice, funny and educated video !!! I love it :D :D
Not everybody has got 1000 bucks for a new fork. So it's great to have the Himalo reviewed. And it seems these forks are not that bad.
Love that t-wrench hack for bars when removing fork... simple, effective... who needs an expensive ( and flawed design- its designed the wrong way up) Park tool.
So awesome to see Henry with Pinkbike now. He was awesome with GMBN as well!
That's a great tip to use the Allen wrench to hold your cockpit while swapping a fork, thanks!
Wouldn’t a better budget option be to updating the air spring, dampers, internals, and a full service of the fork instead of buying the cheapest fork that money could buy!??
Im stoked to see what Brakes come on both of these bikes :D
Love the series
great series, great presenters!
fun fact
Henry's fork has an exact copy of the externals of the suntour durolux non-eq, that every durolux part, fits with it, damper, air spring etc.
one suggestion is to put foam rings in it since it has the port thingy of the durolux that you can inject oil into to wet the foam rings.
next is to put 10 ml of 5 wt oil into each lower leg. after that you basically have a sealed cartridged durolux.
I’m loving the hi low bike series. Wait that’s already taken.
I appreciate that one of the budget options was simply servicing the rear shock. For a lot of used bikes, this would be the best bang-for-your-buck upgrade! Perhaps they should've done the same for the fork? Or a baseline model from a trusted brand. Personally, I even like SR Suntour. My durolux was ~$350 new. The customer support is good and I'm very happy with the fork over the past year.
I hate this way to compare things. Does the more expensive perform better? Probably. I would like to know if the cheaper parts going to end up costing you the same as the more expensive over time?
Its not reallistic, it would be better an uograde to debonair or something similar. Not destroy the bike with that shit
To me in Oklahoma trail riding I have a RockShox recon 150 and a fox 36 grip 160 I can’t tell the difference. In Arkansas rock trails I noticed that over rocks the fox was smother but also I had the RockShox recon setting with more air pressure than the 36. To the recon would be the cheapest way to go due to parts if you do brake the fork.
Shock hardware pressing (WITHOUT A HAMMER): Use a drill press and the appropriate sized socket, with an appropriately sized box wrench underneath (for pressing out). The socket should press through the box wrench, while the box wrench should provide adequate support for the eye of the shock (you can line it with an old inner tube section for protection). When pressing back in, close the drill chuck so that it seats neatly inside the new hardware sleeve.
Today's cheap-ass tip brought to you by the MTB Connection podcast. HNY folks!
I love that Henry got a bit of a half win with the fork. Budget forks like that are either: Really good and surprising.
Or: how the hell did this get approved for sale?
Henry you are right about the front suspension. My Lyrik Ultimate at 170 travel makes my Reign more stable specially at tight corners. And with a new Monarch Plus Rc3 made the ride more enjoyable.
Henry's fork needed some volume reducing spacers and reduce the pressure a bit. It looked pretty good though. Riding high in the travel feels pretty good on the steep tech stuff.
Looked like Henry's fork had too much air. In slow mo still had 30-40mm travel to go
That's probably because the fork would blow through the mid stroke with less air. I just upgraded from a RS recon that I had to run with too much air because it was so unsupportive in the mid stroke. If I bottomed the shock hard the fork went through 80% of its travel.
These forks typically come advertised with the exposed stanchion length, but the actual travel is lower. For example Himalo makes a "180mm travel" that has what they call "press in travel" of 140mm.
Its design has too much ramp up more likely...to progressive. But no spacers to remove, so....
@@FlyEaglesFly333 I have a rockshox recon... what did you upgrade to?
@@endianAphones fox 36 performance
Good stuff!
Watching the slowmo of the cheap fork really makes it look like hot garbage.
secret trick of using grease as volume spacer, also helps keep the seals lubed too. just make sure its good quality thick grease that won't breakdown in the heat and weep past the o-rings into the negative air
would be very interesting to compare the cheapo fork to a RS rebuild from Fluid Function in Squamish, if the Yari allows it
In the slow-mo they showed, I sure saw Jason's bike moving around a lot more, with Henry's seeming to stick the tires to the ground much better.
You guys should've done an Amazon shock for $100
"That'll bed in"
Now that is a hopeful catch phrase!
I'm budget in the sense that I have marzocchi LCR 120 mm on my HT and they were under $300 on sale. On my other old xc bike I have manitou 100mm again that were around $200 with a remote on sale. I had a recon and a Sekonda on a trail bike and I don't think I'd go small name brand for forks. The cheaper bars are fine I've used them for years with a decent stem. Pick the Uno or FSA brands or even the wake bars are reliable. Most if not all are 6061, 7005 or a quality alloy.
I watch a similar series on Donut Media where they do this high/low build with cars and trucks. Great job. Keep it up!
"That's gonna bed in" ...I'm using that from now on... for everything!
We want to see more of Jason and Henry tinkering in the shop. Although I am not sure, if I want to ride one of Jasons Bikes ...
In the next episode, it would also be interesting to do a timed lap, each one of the other's bike. That would be a good point for comparison too.
Really interesting because I have been looking at a suspension upgrade in about the same price range.
My Rockshox recon SL is like floating on Air 🤘🤠🇬🇧 I love my first Air Fork ,I've had a go of the budget fork and it was very good
For a first attempt at this budget v baller, this is turning out to be really great. Could improvements be made for next version, absolutely (mainly not joke budget components), but I have really enjoyed watching this series.
Surly a “baller” bike should have a Trust fork and a Push shock for a cool 5K lol
I know you've already installed those forks, but I really want you to test DNM USD6 forks and DNM Rear coil shock.
Still very much used to seeing Henry on GMBN.... cool projects though
Hi hi I'm riding the same ride, could u guys advice me what is the Ohlin rear shock model or model number? Appreciate!!!!
From Singapore.
can we see some brake comparisons next? like tektros against trp quadiums? for sure would be interesting to watch
For $250, get a rockshox recon! Wayyyy better!
I was just going to post this same thing. Lol
I've noticed on most giant bikes they have some sort of mount on the seat post, anyone know what that is exactly?
I love high-end suspension shocks, but I find that the bulk of riders don't take the time or have the knowledge to know how to setup and dial these in. Dialing in say a cane creek double barrel shock can take a few days or more to really get the best out of it for your riding. Most people will just put some air into for sag and go with the base settings.
Where can I get Henry’s front suspension fork
Poor Henry leaves gmbn and goes to pink bike and gets huffy level parts. Give the man budget parts that aren’t going to kill him.
I love this series! These guys are badass mechanics, don't be fooled by their goofy style!
I recently experienced this recently. I been riding a V1 Ripmo: NX build. Then sold it for another V1 Ripmo with a XT build.
I did make some changes to the NX build: 1. SLX 4P brakes 2. GX drivetrain
With the XT build: It had the entire XT groupset including cranks and BB. Also had the S35 Carbon wheels with I9 hydras VS. NX build that had 933 alloy wheels with Ibis hubs.
Verdict:
The reason I bought the XT build was for the XT groupset which is great, however, the difference is marginal. What made the most substantial difference was the hubs! Damn, those I9 hubs are good! They make pedaling effortless on climbs and really help with techy climbs. I thought it was BS, but was pleasantly wrong! The only thing I would change is the front tire - I have an Assagi 2.5, not sure on the casing, but it feels too light on the trail. I'll try a DHF heavy casing.
On the NX build, I liked the more planted feel, maybe because the Ibis wheels are a bit heavier - they served me well and is a reliable wheel set. I wonder if I swapped hubs with the I9s how it would feel?
Regarding suspension, I really didn't notice a difference with Fox performance Vs. Fox Factory. Maybe I'm still getting used to it. Obviously the Factory is more tunable.
Also, surprisingly, the NX build was a bit lighter than the XT build. Maybe because the shock on the XT build is heavier.
Overall, I prefer how the XT build rides, but also appreciate the NX build. I been riding the NX build for about a year and a half before buying the XT build.
if that’s a rockshox reverb dropper not working properly on henry’s if you put the bike upside down with the dropper up it fixes it
Well, i do appreciate that they put a sensible comment about the parts at the end!
How about a crash test or huck to Flat or jump test on both bikes to see which one comes out with less damage? I am curious about the Blue budget handle bars and Stem and Fork as well as the Carbon handlebar with the Fox fork.
I've been using himalo forks my entire life. My bike rn uses the same one as the video. Super happy with the performance for the price 160€
Can't wait for the tourney groupset.
Wouldn’t it have made more sense to just service the fork and install a new charger damper or a debonair spring? They say upgrades but some of these seem like downgrades?
Is it just me, or is cycling eyewear looking more and more like shop safety goggles every year?
The same producers and the same purpose so it makes sense
That's what I wear....
dawg im loving my bomber z1's i got on sale. wouldnt be able to afford a performance shock if it wasnt for covid overstock lol
This series should be called "Upgrades vs Downgrades"
They should finish off this series by having Henry and Jason compete on the baller bike vs. a pro racer on the budget bike. It would be interesting to see how much speed you can buy.
Would it not be a better option to just fully service the existing suspension on the budget biket?
Surely go for good for value budget upgrades? Rather than eBay parts eg a pair of rockshox recon or something
You guys should be buying used parts for the budget bike or servicing and putting in a damper upgrade to the fork which I believe was a yari
I use one of those himalo forks for my hack bike as it's cheap so I don't hurt my nice stuff
Because of current supply problems in the UK early Covid when we sent our Rocshox forks for a service. No parts for months! So instead got free upgrades to Lyric’s. They have stoopid twist grips (Deathgrip denied!) and honestly I cannot feel the extra price versus performance?? ps I’ve never had top end stuff before.
If the component has the specs required for the work, it's worth testing. Nice movie!
*Everyone* - "Great Idea for a series."
*Donut Media* - "Yeah, we did well when we came up with it, and called it HiLow"