Why Are Racers Choosing Aluminium?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- Carbon fibre is often thought of as being the material of choice for top-of-the-range mountain bikes. With that in mind, why are so many racers like Jackson Goldstone, Loic Bruni, Loris Vergier, and Camille Balanche choosing to go back to Aluminium for parts like frames, wheels, cranksets, and handlebars? Neil decided to dig into the details and see which top pro riders and running what, and why!
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
0:00 - Intro
0:41 - XC/Enduro
1:04 - Downhill
4.17 - Pro Riders Material Choice (table)
5:27 - Manufacturing Techniques
6:46 - Neils Bikes
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What do you think is best? Aluminum or carbon? Do you have any carbon parts? Let us know👇
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What do you think is best? Aluminum or carbon? Do you have any carbon parts? Let us know👇
Carbon isn't very ecological. And as long as I'm not trying to win championships, the price is just unsustainable for me. If the price difference between carbon and alloy is the same as an entire entry lvl hardtail (Canyon stoic was 899€ last I checked) I'd rather get a spare bike.
.. to be real most people shouldnt buy a carbon bike. Crashing one will break your heart (and if realy unlucky your wallet). Sure it might look "cleaner" but since you only notice that if you are standing it shouldnt realy matter. If you want a bike to look at .. go get a carbon bike, if you are new to the sport just stick to aluminum and be sure the bike will outlive your riding.
I think a person has to try both to determine what feels better. I personally can not tell the difference between the two on a frame in performance, but there is a sutttle difference in vibration damping to me. Carbon to me sounds lite and hollow, aluminum seems to soak up the sound/vibration in a suttle way. A carbon handlebar that is designed to flex and not flex in certain directions feels better than aluminum to me. But with that said, it feels different with thicker grips than smaller grips.
I run CushCore because I'm a 225lb rider so the difference between carbon and aluminum rim doesn't feel much different to me as far as feedback. If i had to choose a rim, I'd choose aluminum, although my bike came speced with carbon.
Anyway, this is a topic that is personal to each rider. 🤙
My first carbon bike got chipped the first two weeks I owned it. Never ever had an issue with alloy bikes for decades.
I think GMBN should do a series on the difference between Aluminum and Aluminium since they probably have experience in GB on Aluminium and then when they come over to North America the get to ride Aluminum.
Unless you're racing (a lot), I think for the majority or riders, aluminium is just fine. Being much cheaper, it will allow you to spend your hard earned cash on better components which I believe would make a bigger difference for riding your weekly local trails.
Besides components, that cash could be used to go on some travels.
I just think views and memories are priceless and more important :)
If you are okay with flex under power or that doesn't matter to you there is no reason to pick carbon.
@@The2808erik being on the heavy side, I don't feel carbon THAT rigid. It feels like a high tension spring, but it does flex under power. So burly aluminium is better, less flexy.
@The2808erik uhhhg, aluminum breaks easily and plus, aluminum has been linked to getting dementia.
agreed. guys that are overweight (which is most of us non-racers) buying carbon frames to save 1.5 lbs is funny. spend the money on better brakes and some coaching instead.
bike shop operators have told me that the weight difference between alloy and carbon are much smaller these days because carbon frame makers have been adding more and more material to increase longevity and reduce warranty claims.
Yes, this absolutely true. The difference these days is often just 500-700g between carbon and aluminium frames. My carbon Spectral CF8 with DD tires front and rear with inserts weighs now heavy 15.5kg. With stock tires and no inserts it was 1kg less - more than frame difference just by upgrading the tires. But the frame is more stiff though - really can feel that difference. Still I always worry about damaging the carbon frame when going through rough rocky stuff... I just bought an aluminium enduro bike and no more worries about the frame...
It's true!
Its almost like a Kilo difference right? Quite a bit if you ask me...@@BenSch100
💯 correct! I would never waste my money on carbon for that reason. Alloys are stronger and cheaper. That’s good enough for me. I’m not a pro and not trying to impress anyone
Recently switched to a full carbon frame trail bike and I find myself constantly checking for cracks after I hear rock strikes during a ride. 😅
Yeah same, but it helped my nerves putting protective foil on the lower parts to protect from stones/scratches
@ochnoe274 I do have ridewrap's tailored wrap on my bike but I still managed to get two paint chips on the area that wasn't covered. Orz
Aluminium is an infinitely recyclable material.
Yes but carbon can be recycled as well. I don’t like carbon btw. I’m all for recycling but you know the government does dick about it. I’ve seen the garbage men put my separated recycling with trash 😠
My nephew was a marine and he would tell me how when he was on the aircraft carriers they would open a large gate and dump everything in the ocean.
So don’t worry what’s best for the planet and get whatever you want. Most likely our bikes will end up in a landfill anyways. Humanity! 😢
Neil, this was really a superb episode brother. Thank you for your time and efforts.
Thanks! I enjoyed digging into it
Gotta love Neil videos
Thanks
Thanks Neil. Best GMBN video I have seen in a while! More like this please.
I've had the most expensive carbon frames over the last couple of years and went for aluminum for my last tow builds. I feel ZERO difference in feel and weighing 90kgs. myself, the weight difference of carbon over aluminium doesn't matter at all. I can get up the hill at the same speed.
Want to point out that Alex Rudeau is currently 2nd overall in EDR, riding on aluminium Commencal bike..
Thanks, missed that one
Airliners use aluminum, and only recently incorporated carbon fiber.
If Aluminum is good enough for huge airplanes, it's good enough for bicycles.
Trek must have missed the carbon is light memo with their latest slash and fuel ex
My favorite part of being a degenerate American staying up this late is I get prime time euro uploads at the end of the night
Add in various tyre choices (width, size and compound) and a rundown of who is running air shocks v coil shocks and this would be peak geek content! 🙌🏻
(Cheers Neil 👌🏻)
After all the frames just snapping and also the extra care with bike racks etc I'm just not trusting carbon.
I cant afford carbon..but I'm quite happy with Aluminium. If I was racing maybe I would feel different, but for riding pleasure Ally if fine.
I was always under the impression that carbon was more damp than aluminum because the weave could be tuned to be stiff in one direction while dampening in another. The main downside of aluminum was said to be that it was chattery and stiff in all directions. This is why road bikes used to put carbon in forks and seat stays to ward off road vibrations while saving cost with the rest of the bike in alloy. I remember the first time I rode a full carbon gravel bike with carbon rims and bars thinking “damn! This is comfy!” That said I recently went from a ally frame and bars to basically the same bike with carbon frame, bars and front rim, and my hands were significantly more pumped at the same bike park. I know carbon has lately gone from the light and maybe less durable option to the slightly lighter but much stronger option. I will say the reason I switched was because I had to warranty the alloy frame due to a crack at a chainstay weld in the rear triangle. That fatigue failure would not happen with a carbon frame. I think frame and component builders will continue to dial in the exact stiffness/compliance balance that optimizes stability and comfort. I think that optimization is easier with carbon because of the ability to change the weave/layup.
You are right. Plus, Carbon Fiber Composite has better vibration dampening properties.
Great info on this one
Great episode!
I bought a 2021 YT Base a couple years ago for the purpose of riding downhill in Santa Cruz. The Zeb has been extended to 190mm and had upgraded to the Charger 2.1 and run Cushcore for lower tire pressures. Spank stem and 40mm rise handlebars with Rev Grips (Got a bad wrist and bulging discs in my back and neck). Also upgraded the 370 hub with a 54t ratchet. Also just got a coil rear shock.
I fractured the radius in my elbow, and three ribs in 2019. I’m 50 and just want to get down in one piece. The bike weighs 37 lbs and requires more input than my carbon bike, but the thing just trucks. It climbs as good as I do (not great, but not bad) but we take two trucks and shuttle. I only get a few hours to myself on Sunday’s so I’m not in it for my health, I just have time for fun.
Circa 2015, When gt fury went from carbon to alu one of their tech stated alu frame was easier/faster to change geo in order to tailormade frames for their team riders.
Alloy is the better value proposition which is important to me. I love it as a material as well and have never owned a carbon MTB. I do like the weight savings that you get from carbon but can't justify the cost and would rather have nicer components as others have mentioned. Great content as always Neil and GMBN!
Carbon is a lot lighter than aluminum and for long climbs, the cost is definitely worth it.
If I was a more serious rider, I could probably justify it pretty easily so that is another factor for me. I'm thankful that bike manufacturers produce both materials and we have the option for either.@@kevinburke1325
modern alu frames are not that much heavier than carbon. the flex in the alu just gives the bike more reliability and longevity.
@@kevinburke1325 Carbon is not actually that much lighter unfortunately.
@racingbeats1493 well, it certainly lasts longer than aluminum. With aluminum, my tires and wheels crumpled on a long climb. I looked at the wheel and it was completely bent and destroyed. I will never trust an aluminum bike ever again. They are horrible quality.
Aluminum has better response and feel, especially for larger riders. Carbon bicycle have always felt `Dead` to me compared to any aluminum counter part.
Nice one Neil!
Carbon suffered a PR hit when the submersible went down. Subsequently, people went on to research pros and cons of carbon and the results they found were not always pretty.
Most all the bikes today are phenomenal carbon or aluminum, the geometry is so slack to attack the DH and I don’t even complain about a little added weight. I loved the light bikes but have gotten used to a bit of a firmer ride on a heavier DH bike and on the e-bike. Great time to be a rider!
I been running Carbon frames for over 10 years. I currently have a V1 Ripmo and if anything happens to the frame, I'm just going to switch to an AF Ripmo frame. I did demo an AF and felt it pedaled as good but understand I'll take a bit of a hit on the climbs.
One of the best tracking frames downhill I’ve ever owned was a true single pivot (not linkage driven). I could feel the rear flexing through chunky sections and around corners, but it just hugged the ground. Since then I’ve had a few other suspensions designs, but non have had better all around ride feel than that flexy Motobecane.
Aluminum all the time for me. That’s why I ride a Commencal meta TR. Never cared about weight.
I will always go for aluminum cause I’m not a pro. Also just depends I would definitely like to have a carbon frame for like XC for example but other then that I prefer aluminum
I remember reading an article in the 90s about steel vs ally! Love the Spectral FW. Sadly I am selling mine as injury has ruined me.
The more I get back into mt bikes, the more riders I meet who have broken themselves up badly. Local park is all rocks and 1 crash can be a game changer.
@@bradsanders6954 Some of this is definitely down to what a modern full suspension bikes make possible for even modestly skilled riders. Anyone who learned to ride off road on a rigid bike found out very quickly what the bike was up to on the ground, and when they got kicked off it tended to be at a survivable speed, so they could learn to do better.
Modern bikes isolate the rider so completely from the terrain and the consequences of the speed they allow, that often the first time people discover they went past the ability of the bike to do the work for them is when they wake up in hospital. Any modern bike I've ridden, even though they're often lighter, feel dead compared to 26" bikes because they're so long and slack that weight shifts make a lot less difference to the behaviour of the bike - no question newer bikes are faster, but ebikes are faster and motocross bikes are faster again, so a bike is never the choice based on speed only. It's much more satisfying knowing my bike got up or down something because I made it do it than because it could the same with anyone on board.
If you care about that argument, alloy is greener too. Can be recycled an infinite time and less energy costly in the manufacture process.
I've had alloy trail bikes and one full carbon enduro bike, and I can't say I noticed any difference, apart from the sound the carbon bike made when going downhill, kind of like a tapping on plastic sound, it didn't really inspire me with confidence.
Probably was your internal cable routing?
@@jedstanton3232 Maybe, I no longer have the bike anymore, but I didn't notice any difference in ride quality either.
I recently went from a HT 27.5 to a FS 29er. The only thing I want to get in carbon is the rear triangle, this bike is a lot longer on the on the rear than my old one and damn I can feel it. Had to crank the rebound and pressure up to get a proper pop like I could on my HT, just a weight drop in the rear will serve me nicely
I dont think a lighter rear triangle would do much difference as the biggest change for you is coming from a HT to FS and bigger wheelsize with longer chainstays - that makes a huge difference! You just wont have the pop on FS like on HT but I get you pumping the pressure in the shock - I do that for jumping too. But then pinballing down a trail with these high pressures. Maybe a mullet bike would have suited you better?
I wish carbon bikes weren't so popular. You end up getting most of the higher end builds with carbon frames when you could save a lot by going with an aluminum frame and get 98% of the benefit of a nicer spec. And then there's the environmental impact of carbon...
I wish high quality steel would make a comeback in mass production.
@@curtvaughan2836 That would be cool.
My buddy got something caught in his derailer on his turbo levo carbon expert. It shredded spokes and ruined the derailer and more importantly ripped the derailer hanger off the frame and put a hole in the carbon frame. The frame is toast. I had a similar experience on my bike and I had to replace the derailer hanger. And repair a few spokes.
Those Treks are production bikes. This gen Session will not have a carbon option either, but Trek claimed they would have made on if the race team wanted carbon during the bikes development.
I loved my carbon Scott and after I broke it my last 3 bikes have been alloy , I can do everything on the alloy bikes that I did on the carbon bike , and get a little better components for the same or less cash
With carbon rims some riders are running 24 hole rims (Jackson), I heard some use 2 cross spoke lacing also for more compliance.
I have a steel Cotic FlareMax with carbon bars and rims...feels excellent!
I just can’t see how the marginal flexibility differences wouldn’t be washed out by the comparatively massive movement of the suspension parts. I just got my first carbon fiber bike, and it feels exactly like a bike to me
Carbon is stif in every direction, you want some play in directions you don’t think ,like side ways not just up and down
@@beeldpuntXVIYou could not be firther from the truth!! Carbon allows products (in this case bikes) to flex however they are designed to flex
e.g. many of the current crop of carbon XC FS bikes do away with the rear pivot and use seatstay flex instead....
@alan_davis: your argument is just confirmation. A designed flexibility is just that designed. Natural behavior of materials is not imitateble in an other material. Roubaix bike of metal don't need any dampener. The carbon one needs them. Just natural behaviour
Besides that the whole video above revolves around material behaviour.
@@beeldpuntXVI Yeah, you have no idea what you are talking about and it shows, badly.
My Vitus Sommet 27.5 is half carbon, half alloy. Crankset is carbon too, from Raceface. Really amazing and playful bike! Pimped it with Hope Tech 4 brakes, Hope F20 pedals.🤘
I got a Vitus also, came with RF cranks. Honestly it came decked out with name brand everything, Fox fork under $2k. Love it. Just need a longer dropper
Awesome episode Neil, always wondered why a lot of the major manufacturers went from carbon to alloy frames for their DH bikes. I personally over the past year went from alloy frame (Commencal META) and alloy rims, to alloy frame and carbon rims, and the characteristics change was dramatic. The acceleration was night and day, but the bike overall was still super heavy and overall quite sluggish. Then I decided to get a carbon stumpy evo frame, keeping everything else, so carbon/carbon, and the change was even more dramatic. Absolutely love my bike right now it just rides awesome. But in the case of DH bikes alloy frame is perfectly fine, no weight penalty there.
Whenever I see a product advertised as something pro racers use, I assume it isn't for me.
Well about carbon bars being stiffer than aluminum.. that is not necessarily true. You, yourself, have said that the stiffness of carbon depends on the layout. Supposedly the One Up bars are supper flexy helping with the arm pump fatigue. I have not tested them - wrong backsweep for me, but that is the general opinion on them as far as I have heard
It depends on what marketing tells them to say.
Yeah, that's was certainly BS - you can make stiff carbon bars, stiff Al bars, flexy carbon bars and flexible Al bars... the material is less important than other design properties.
My last 2 bikes have been carbon, and they have held up great. Some of the issue is many bike manufacturers don’t offer the better components on the aluminum bikes.
4 seasons on my reserve wheels and never touched a spoke on my front and rear has only been trued once after having a new rear built up when my freehub crapped out. Love the carbon wheels and wouldn’t go back.
What do u think about the one up bars ??
They design flex in to
I love the feel of them
I'm running 22.2mm chrome-moly handlebars on my DH bike. 9" rise with a BMX stem. Rides brilliantly except in climbs. The extra kilo of weight isn't great though.
Neil is back! I was worried he left/retired
Simple, because some of them don’t have sponsors that provide carbon stems. They can build flex into carbon frames, like the new Hope HB916 which is a very comfortable bike.
the riding and weight differences are inconsequential for me- for the frame I like aluminium better because the bike will fall in the garage or under you on a trail.. at same point and with aluminium you have a slight scratch or dent, with carbon you will have a broken frame... also with handlebars I really don't want to question if I have tightened the bolts a bit too much.. carbon handlebars can't be that much better to warrant the risk. I did try carbon handlebars on another bike and with it being a completely yet similar bike to mine, I could not tell the difference
prototype sessions? Is it not just the current session with a larger idler?
I have ridden 3 years on SC reserves without ever having to align them. That's a big plus for me and worth the extra bucks
It’s much easier to change things on a alloy frame, then on carbon ones…
Only weld things differently then change the whole mold for carbon to change geometry, levers or other small things.
On components the thing that counts the most is, not to break in any case…better it bents. Stiffness is a other thing to experiment with and tune it to the personal preference of the rider. Mostly it depends on sponsors to…
i choose aluminium mainly because its way cheaper. My budget being tight, it means i can get a lightweight bike with better equipments for a similar budget.
and i am not a pro, i dont feel much difference in weight while riding aluminium VS carbon.
But i do see a huuuuge difference with a better gearset, suspension and brakes.
Well you can 100% feel the stiffness of a carbon frame vs alloy. That being said your power-input from pedaling will be transitioned more effectively into the ground and give you a for me better and direct feel.
Cool video :-)
I opted for aluminum on my turbo Levo. Figured it’s already a 52lb emtb, so who cares if the carbon one is 3lbs lighter. For the price difference I opted for a higher trim aluminum bike. Plus i do crash. I feel the aluminum bike holds up better & has a chance of being repaired if I really mess up
Full Aluminum for me. I'm a bit on the heavy side, and love the reliability and confidence of Aluminum. Got a new bike (Nicolai) recently and the only piece of Carbon ln is the Garmin mount 😅
The bike feels like it's built to last forever and loves to be abused in the Bikepark.
Got another (Gravel...) has a Carbon Fork, and I never ever had a good feeling riding over a log or down the curb.
I guess if you want to have dementia, go for aluminum.
When it actually is lighter, carbon really does make a difference on XC and downcountry bikes. I'm c.15% faster over longer courses with roughly 1000m ascent on my carbon XC than on my Al trail bike. The problem is that your have to spend a lot of money and go all carbon to get a material weight reduction. Most 140-150 travel current carbon trail bikes are about the same weight (just under 15kg) as my 2018MY Alu Merida One Forty. And that's if you believe the advertised weights. I bought a carbon Santa Cruz Hightower frameset for a self build project. Weight on the website: 2,970g. Actual weight: 3,500g.
Kolb's Atherton frame is a mix of carbon and titanium, which makes it even more interesting.
I do wonder if something like Berd Spokes will become a thing with pros who want to tune the compliance of their bikes. I have a pair on a hardtail and wow so they have an excellent ride to them!
if the saying is that carbon fiber can be fine-tuned to make componenents stiff where is needed and compliant where it's needed, then in theory every component (at least the main ones like frames, handlebars, wheels) could "fine-tuned" precisely to be stiff where is needed and compliant where it's desired. Basically, a wholly carbon fiber bike should be most optimal. But, in practice it IS very difficult to fine-tune carbon components to what is theoretically possible.
Aluminum alloys have been greatly improved. 7068t6 alloy has a better strength to weight ratio that grade 5 titanium. It is stronger/stiffer than some common steels, & three times stronger than most aluminum alloys. It's not as simple as carbon fiber is alway better.
Love Neil videos man!, but:
Does GMBN only have these topics for every video ever? 😆 Air vs coil, carbon or alu, how to clean your chain, how to jump 1ft
Flats vs clipless.
@@theymademepickaname1248 Another classic
There are only so many things in a single sport that can be discussed, and they have been making videos for almost a decade on this channel. Some repetition is inevitable. Nobody is forcing you to watch every video dude. Let's not forget this content is all provided free to us too.
@@dave_clarke Bro they've been cruising through my neighbourhood, mean-mugging me from their car every few hours since I made that comment, so I better keep watching 😥
What about Pole, making aluminium frames stiffer than anyone else could, because of CNC rather than tubing. Have they found the perfect middle ground between?
Where can I get the protection stickers you have on your cranks??
Well, it depends on what you are doing on bike... carbon is "mechanically fragile" it means that it is extremely stiff a light but when it breaks it fails catastrophically without giving notice, on components such main triangle carbon which is the stiffest part of the bike carbon can be "safe" to be used, but not on rear end, not on wheels cranks and bars at least if you don't check those components regularly and replace them if you notice cracks or dents. I always preferred aluminum and for gravity and e-Mtb purposes I think is the best material to be used to make reliable and solid bikes. Carbon is for roadies and xc pros. (Imho).
I noticed a typo in the table at 4:24. Valentinas name is spelled with two 'L'
Ironic that a nature based sport enjoys disposable throw away carbon components and frames. Carbon is the plastic shopping bag of mtb
Im into new intense hp bike, but I'll only invest in it IF they offer an alloy frame. Otherwise commencal may be my next new dh bike.
Question, why is the rear shock on Neils new Canyon Spectral reverse of "normal?". Wouldn't having the heaviest mass portion of the shock stay stationary be better for handling?
I don't think there is actually much of a weight difference end to end. It's weird and I don't like it, but a few manufacturers run them this way because it fits better - particularly piggy-back shocks.
Sethbike hacks destroying a Sync'r carbon plus my buddy cracking a Sta Cruz nomad made me hesitant on carbon. It's just a stray rock that ruined the frame.
I saw how direct impacts can affect some carbon frames. 👀👀
Really depends on the grade of the material. High quality steel is very similar to carbon, but riders don’t like the thin tubing and is very expensive. Aluminum is super lightweight but very rigid unless expensive aluminum is used. High quality carbon works best for me, rides like a Lexus RC-F
Could alot of the bikes be ali prototype frames for carbon moulds later? personally think the racers may not use that frame for the whole seasons and even less likely to ride it for two years. For generally riding I would prefer alloy for longevity. my 2006 sworks Endura ali is still good for park riding but my 2008 sworks Carbon Stumpy started to delaminate after 5years. its eBike replacement was Alloy as I trust it will last more than 3years. If I had sponsorship or spare money a new bike more regularly, i would love carbon products, but for value to money and longevity its Alloy all the way..
I often wonder about longetivity issue. For me Steel/Titanium have clear edge but on topic of aluminium vs carbon I'm not sure. What's more impactful delamination or cracks in carbon or material fatigue and cracks on aluminium? For an urban bike i broke aluminium fork (not even a crash). But once i replaced it with carbon one(al steerer tube) it worked many years more. I think amount of material and quality of manufacture can be more significant in that regard than material itself.
Purely on a cost : talent argument, I only own aluminium frames/wheels/bars (with a steel frame tourer being the exception). The additional cost step to introduce carbon into the mix simply isn't worth it for my level of ability and performance. I'd be better off losing a kilogram off my own waistline than losing similar off my ride.
Muuuch confusion around here. Carbon Fiber Composite can be a lot stiffer than metals. But with CFC you can tune your stiffnes in ways you simply can't with aluminium. There are many frames using flexing CFC rear triangles instead of pivots. Try that with Aluminium... Saying a frame or component is stiffer because it is made out of CFC is unwise. Especially CFC handlebars make a lot of sense when they are tuned to flex a lot more than Al ones. Now some rides might like that flex (Greenland) and others don't (Goldstone).
I just got some extra cash then updated to a full carbon enduro bike, carbon frame, bar and crank, not the rim tho. I am not a racer by any means, but I can never go back because the vibrations filtering, way easier for my old aching bones. The bike is 17 kg, so it is not even that light, and I am not fast, I just go for it for the luxurious riding feel, and it looks clean without those wielding lines. If you are going to own it for more than 5 years, the extra money is nothing if you break it into 60 months. The al version is not free, it still costs quite bit of money, so I always buy the best one I can afford at the time because I don’t want to spend a lot of money and still think about “what if” from time to time
If durability and comfort are your main criteria, you could consider a nice steel frame for your next build. I recently joined the steel is real crowd and I am now a converted member of the cult with my Cotic. In my 40s now and I appreciate the way it takes the sting out of things. Built to last too, I think this bike will outlive me at this point!
@@dave_clarke haha, I actually do, I just built a steel bmx for pump track and indoor bike park. Even I live in north van and 30 minutes to the mountains, with my 10-7 day job and kids to take care of, full sus mtb is still a weekend thing. But with that bmx, I can ride that to work and pop a few feature along the way, also there is a pump track track near my office, so I can ride it at lunch break.
well.. I'm a cyclist and a Composite technician by BOEING training... laughed at Multimatic treatment.. but yeah. I ride 6061 and 4130 and avoid CF everything... but also. Kevlar is useful and unidirectional VS weave and warp orientation is critical.. forged oriented metals are better than cast.. proper lugged CF tubes might be a decent compromise TBH.
4130 is my #1
I'd take a Thomson 7050 aluminum riser bar, 7000 series Elite aluminum stem, and sestpost; and a 3/2.5 Titanium riser bar and seatpost over anything carbon! 🤘🤘 "YEAH❗️"
Aluminum hardtail 26er all day, every day.❤
i've always this impression that carbon fibre have this vibration dampening quality thus giving a cushy ride .... never knew it was harsh.
that being said i learn all this from road cycling literature
The harshest carbon cockpit I've tried is the Farsports F1 one-piece cockpit. After I installed it on my customer's 2021+ Émonda SL, one portion of road I used to ride for test rides feels harsher than if I rode my bike (aluminium everywhere except my carbon fork blades, on 25 mm clinchers).
@@yonglingng5640 but it really depends how they layup the carbon right ? It could be flexy or stiff
@@awfully.average Yes, from the number of carbon fiber layers to the direction of the carbon fiber strands. I think Farsports laid it up to be stiff without taking compliance into account.
After trying out a 50lbs ebike, the extra weight of the bike seemed to really help manage the rough sections of trails, especially at speed, much easier. Felt more planted and the suspension seemed to work a tad bit better. For top-tier DH racing, there could be a point a bike could be too light for some riders to get comfortable at speed. Also, geo updates and changes are much easier/cheaper to manage on alloy frames than carbon frames. This could also be a factor.
30lbs is roughly where a pro downhill bike comes in at, lighter than that and it might not hold up to extreme abuse. 50+ lbs like a full power E bike weighs is a bit much.
I agree on the heavier bike, like my Canyon Spectral ON , does roll great thru rocks and what ever. The weight forces the suspension to work.
on an ebike the heavy battery is low on the frame which helps a lot with that planted feeling you're talking about
Yeah, it was humorous that riding friends thought that my e-bike was going to blow them away on the climbs and then wallow around crash and burn on the downhills. Surprise. None of y'all are dropping me. I was born and raised on moto and these E's feel like dancing shoes to me. Point it straight and hit the chunk.
Top level downhill bikes weigh about 30 lbs, a full power E bike weighs over 50 lbs.....an E bike can go good downhill but 30lbs is much more maneuverable. My Intense XC bike is 24lbs, it feels like a BMX bike compared to my Canyon Spectral ON.
If weight isn't this issue, what about steel for compliance?
Когда у меня спрашивают: карбон или алюминий, я отвечаю: алюминий. Карбон - это про выигрыш долей секунд на соревнованиях. А для обычных райдеров алюминия хватит с головой. Ведь хоть алюминий не такой твёрдый, его можно использовать с вмятинами. А карбон ударов не терпит и трещит. По сути, карбоновые детали одноразовые - если их приложить о дерево, ступеньки, парапеты, фонарные столбы и прочие внезапные препятствия, то дальше эта рама уже никуда не поедет. При этом алюминий обойдётся вмятиной, с которой велосипед ещё можно будет использовать.
Поскольку мне иногда случается падать, мой выбор - алюминий
I went with SQ Labs carbon bars and found they were way more compliant than the aluminum bars they replaced
Why does weight matter that much in endure when you aren't timed on the uphill sections?
I ride alloy because of price. I can imagine buying carbon frame in the future. But how many carbon frames do you see broken in a season and how many alloy?
I visited a local dealer for Specialized, and the sale advisor was telling me that Carbon frame was a lot better and provided a "softer" ride compared to the aluminum, lol~. Not sure if it was bs sales talk or marketing...
I'd love an aluminum trail bike, but for any brand that makes carbon frames, the component specs on the aluminum builds are low end too. By the time I replace with the build kit I want, it's more expensive than the carbon build.
For handlebars, I have found that aluminum bars can vibrate and be harsh if you are chunking through rock gardens. Carbon bars tend to damp that vibration out and put less zing into my hands.
I choose aluminum as a shop employee because the lower cost lets me place money in parts like suspension or drivetrain and brakes. Id rather have a high end spec alloy bike then a lower end carbon bike especially when im riding bigger travel enduro bikes. Just got on an alloy trek slash but slapped on preformance elite suspension and a gx transmission drivetrain. When you get to those big travel bikes the frame material doesn’t really matter im not going to lie. Wheel’s though i fold alloy wheels like crazy right now im on stock alloys but i can guarantee im going to fold these bontrager wheels they are not the strongest wheels around. When i do im grabbing carbon wheels. The lighter wheels are a good place to loose weight it makes the bike a lot snappier. Otherwise alloy all the way.
had 2 carbon frames, and never liked the feel of them. all my current bikes are AL again. More metal, less Tupperware. 🤘🤘 (same for rims and handlebars)
Not all aluminum is the same. My RM Altitude vs my banshee Spitfire is very different. The banshee feels much more like my carbon bikes.
i trust steel more than aluminum or carbon, but the lighter and stiffer the better for me if money and longevity was not a concern
Funny thing is the video does not mention carbon bars are much more forgiving and less trail chatter
The thing is as aluminium flexes it work hardens & becomes brittle. I've cracked a few aluminium framws but never a carbon frame.
This is only the case when you bend it past it's elastic limit - I.e. when you permanently bend the frame, and then it's ****ed anyway. Normal riding flex in an Al frame will not strain harden (aka work harden).
@@alan_davis Which is why alluminium frames are so stiff. As soon as they flex they go past the elastic limit very quickly. Commencal who are well known for their alluminium frames have had big issues with their frames cracking.
Same here, cracked 2 aluminum frames. Never a carbon frame.
@@JoeS97756 Yeah. Ally frames crack all the time. I don't understand why all these people don't seem to mention it but just bang on about carbon cracking. Welds on alluminium also seem to weaken the area around the weld too. But again, people don't like to mention it.
@@alan_davis That is 100% incorrect. Aluminum will always fatigue out as it has no fatigue limit. This is why aluminum connecting rods in drag engines have a cycle limit, they will eventually fail no matter what. Steel has a limit, as does titanium, if you put load under the limit on those parts they will NEVER get any weaker. Carbon fiber is the same. There is no load weak enough to put on aluminum parts that doesn't make the base crystalline structure weaker in some way, and that's what not having a fatigue limit means.
All you need to do to confirm this is google "aluminum fatigue limit" and read on wikipedia for a while. All things made from aluminum and put to any kind of stress will break, it is inevitable. All your aluminum frames come with a finite lifespan. And so, you'll hear about busted aluminum frames all the time.
I just went carbon like 6 months ago, tbh i fell hard twice that make my frame hitting a rock and roots luckly not a crack in that. I think carbon isn't really that weak, not that i pro with carbon frame but imho carbon aren't for a beginner it's for intermidiate rider, at least if you want to use carbon frame you need to know how to fall so you don't hurt yourself or the bike, second thing is it's probably reccomended that you use carbon frame on a trail you familiar with. If you have other bike that is aluminium make sure every inch of track with that then you can use your carbon bike. So yeah! Thanks for reading
I just replaced my alloy Vitus escarpe with a new carbon version and was surprised to see it’s slightly heavier
Depends on the build. I bought a Norco Sight A1. The A1 is lighter, cheaper, and better equipped than the C2.
Yes Neil!