Phil was absolutely correct not to destroy the Black Market. He's always the one getting killed first, it isn't his job to solve the table's problems - especially when they usually decide that the problem is Phil! He's got to look out for himself.
Definitely agree considering his board position at the time. And I'm glad the team didn't give him too much flak from it (it was more trying to convince him but not really complaining about his decision).
Tomer dropped the zombie master and immediately started begging Crim to wipe the board because he didn't realize it gave all zombies swampwalk. All Crim had to do was attack Tomer with the Scarb God and have Tomer block since it wasn't a zombie.
Crim does like to have players LEARN their lesson, it's in Crim's best interest to leave it and have Tomer draw aggro. Crim is a CRAFTY player and that's why I'm on Team Crim, Crim #1 with each caster member in 3rd place with the exception of Phil and Tom at #2. 😆😘👌
@@zerrokwooley3741 I’ve been thinking for a while to make a player stats chart. For Tomer for example, his deck building is super good, so that would be 5/5. But politics for example would be lower. However Crum would get a 5 for politics. I’m thinking: Deck building Card sequencing (correct order of plays) Threat assessment Politics Strategy (which card to play and when) Anything else?
@@koenvandepoll927 That's a cool idea. All your criteria are based on gameplay aspects though. Clash is often about flavor or theme. Maybe a criteria on theme adherence or something like that? Phil is quite good with that for example.
I think Tom miss killing Phil using Rakdos Charm by dealing 1 dmg for each creature in response to Ayara ETBs after Rise of the Dead, no need to exile the graveyard, just ask Crim to exile the Carrion Feeder (so Phil can't sacrifice most creatures to avoid dying to Rakdos Charm). PD:this doesnt work if there is another free Sac Outlet in another graveyard.
I'm not quite sure, because Phil had access to Phyrexian tower to sac at the very least 1 creature. He would need 19 creatures on the board (17hp, at 1 hp/creature -1 creature sacced -1 blood artist trigger)
When he said they were "friends" because Phil "helped" him cast the Scarab God, I was in stitches. XD It's just the right amount of BM within a circle of friends/coworkers.
Great video! Another great zombie commander is Sultai Sidisi (brood tyrant) -- can do a lands subtheme to power out the big reanimate spells like Rise of the Dark Realms!
wondering if there was a line where rise of the dark realms resolved, and then phil died to a rakdos charm. can't tell if there are too many sac outlets in graveyards or not.
With phill on the frames for immersion. I love the UB stuff but when I got my Necrons deck adding a card to it that didn’t have the warhmer frame made it stand out so strongly. Even cards that are picture wise aesthetic. When 90+ cards on your deck have identical frames the few different ones are egregious. Never notice it in other decks that have a large spread of special frames and mixed borders. It’s just that decks where so much of it is the same and only a few are different.
On this week of "Punt or Bluff?" Braaaiiiiinnnnnsssss..... Will brains devour brains or will brains.... BRAAAAAAAINNNSSSS??? Tune-in for BRAAAIIINNNSS!!!
Speaking of titans, since the sword cycle is about to be completed, the theros elder titans would be fun to speculate on. Would be hilarious if the blue black one made big body deathtouch zombie tokens
When they do a return x return x return to Innistrad set I think they should so after a significant time skip to explain a technological advancement of the plane. And this is because I think the next theme for the set should be a industrial revolution inspired version of Innistrad with certain elements of steam punk. Both gothic horror and steam punk share a Victorian aesthetic so you can keep the general look of the plane the same. Only now instead of carriages racing down cobblestone roads only lit by lamp and sparse rays of the moonlight you have steam bellowing trains roaring through dark countryside. Zombies grafted with new products of industrial revolution. Shamans, angels, and practitioners of the old ways struggle to adapt to the new age of technological advancment. The new era of industry has also led to a declining vampire and werewolf population who now commit gruesome and dangerous feedings in the now crowded industrialized cities of Innistrad. Explorers and scientists have now developed vessels capable of exploring the deep seas of Innistrad. The mysteries of gigantic, unexplainable creatures who sometime wash upon the shores can now be searched. But what will these men do when they discover the horrors that still lurk the plane in its deepest places, where neither moon nor Heron's light can reach. I just really see Innistrad as a good setting for a Magic inspired Jules Verne adventure. I can see a good Jack the Ripper subplot. And a BioShock zombie abomination would be cool.
I'm losing my mind hearing Tom explain why it's good to tap out on MTGO when there are yields that let you do the same thing without losing access to your mana. Phil tried to explain it but no one was listening.
Also, it didn’t really need to be explained anyways. Tom seems to talk to the viewers too much while other players are trying to play and converse. That’s the impression I get after watching a couple of these episodes.
Relentless dead is excellent. Zombies care about 2 things: zombie bodies on the battlefield, and getting back zombies from the graveyard. Relentless dead is a zombie body that keeps coming back in the early game, and in the late game it gets back another zombie. Excellent mana sink. On top of that, the art is freaking amazing. 10/10.
Relentless Dead is overrated because people seem to think that Zombies cares about single target reanimation much more than it actually does. If you look on edhrec you'll see that the average list of the most popular zombie commander doesn't run the card Reanimate. This is because there is really only one decent tribe member to reanimate: rot hulk. Just about everything else in the list is replacement level, where you'd be equally as happy having drawn any tribe member as you would be having drawn reanimate and even more so in the early game when the yard is empty. The same logic applies to Relentless Dead; you'd most often rather just have the 2/2 menace that you already paid for than a random zombie from your graveyard. So if it's the case that you'd rather just have the zombie you already paid for, why not just pay for a better zombie in the first place? You could argue the mana sink point, where if you have 3 extra mana laying around then it's better than a random other zombie, and I'd agree with you there. The problem is you rarely ever have 3 extra mana laying around except when you're behind, and when you're behind you are probably wishing your Relentless Dead was a different card.
I'd reckon it's one of the best due to colors provided. Varina does get blown out with cards that constantly remove the grave. IE: Leyline of the void.
In regards to Relentless Dead, I think the reason why Tomer doesn't get why it's good is that he's never played a commander that it is good in. I've found in Wilhelt and Grimgrin decks it's one of your best cards, allowing you to continuously replay your value zombies. Saccing it to Wilhelt to then replay Fell Stinger to go up 3 cards and still have two decayed tokens every turn can build insane value. However with pretty much every zombie commander that doesn't have a built in sac outlet it is really mediocre
It's the 100th card in my Wilhelt deck, as soon as they print another decent 2 drop zombie, Relentless Dead gets the axe. I've probably played 75 games with it and the best it's ever done is rebought itself for a single mana. 99% of the time it's worse than Lazotep Reaver.
@@jayjayhooksch1 it's insane in my build. Constantly recurring Fleshbag Marauders and Sidisi, Undead Viziers absolutely dominates mid power commander games
@@GoDzJtFr I play those cards as well, it just never comes up. Either the mana cost is too prohibitive or I sacced it way earlier to draw a card digging for something relevant. The only reason I keep playing it is because there aren't that many good 2 drop zombies. There's Undead Auger, Undead Butler and Withered Wretch as good utility options. Then there's a few 2 drops that are decent sac fodder; Lazotep Reaver, Putrid Goblin and Butcher Ghoul. After that the options fall off a cliff; it's either Relentless Dead or Mire Triton and honestly Triton would have been better for me 99% of the time. I just keep giving Relentless Dead the benefit of the doubt because it has so much text that it should be good, right? What we need is a 2 drop zombie sac outlet so that Pyre of Heroes has more good targets.
It's such a bad zombie - maybe 4 years ago it was ok, but there are better options now. It probably doesn't make the 130th card right now. It feels like most people who like it are the ones running Endless Ranks, because they both have sweet zombie stained-glass art.
T'is a lot of content to create while also trying to manage a game AND have a friendly conversation ANDDDD remember to narrate for viewers. Tomer puts in a lot of work so mayhap cut Tomer some slack, eh? 🤔😆👌
Phil constantly strives NOT to play the absolutely broken cards that are Broken BY themselves. Phil is a value player and that's just how value decks play out. Honestly Phil plays to have a good time. Easy to critique a content creator but if you were in their shoes, I'd reckon people would call you out on double standards. I say this with love. 🥰😘👌
They've mentioned on the podcast before that Path makes the cut as a tapped dual land that can scry, and Crim and Richard have mentioned running it in virtually every multi color deck even if it's not tribal
Relentless Dead and mass reanimation aren't comparable things, they have nothing in common and serve very different jobs. Relentless dead is for Aristocrats type strategies. It allows you to loop cards in an out of your graveyard repeatedly to accrew value over time. Yes it is less mana efficient than mass reanimation but again its not for that. It is at its best when you are bringing back things that make a bunch of tokens like deranged hermit or the symbiotic cycle. Then you can sac that thing, sac the tokens, and sac the relentless dead and bring it back and do it again. It is more similar to a card like phyrexian reclamation or tortured existence than it is to mass reanimation.
Agreed. However Relentless Dead is also a really bad phyrexian reclamation effect and zombies doesn't really want phyrexian reclamation effects. That's why they don't even play good phyrexian reclamation effects.
@Jesse N I don't know about that. I think they both have advantages, and you could build zombies to be more aristocratic, but I agree that a lot of builds don't want those effects.
@@Titanreaver616 my zombies deck is fairly aristocratic, it wins via mass reanimation a lot of the time, bringing back Grey Merchant as well as Plague Belcher, Diregraf Captain and Vengeful dead. I still wouldn't touch relentless dead again. I did for awhile, played 50+ games with it and the best thing it ever did was rebuy itself after being sacced to Wilhelt, which is fine I guess, but even that didn't happen often. Never once did I have the mana to reanimate anything when it died let alone live the dream of getting it back and reanimating something lol So despite being aristocratic, relentless dead still sucked. I also wouldn't have wanted Phyrexian Reclamation in the deck either though, not enough high value individual targets. You might notice cards like this are absent from average lists on edhrec, including the card reanimate. There just isn't a lot of value in spending a card and life (in reanimate's case) or so much mana (in relentless dead's case) to get back a replacement level tribe member, which so what your graveyard is usually going to be full of, when you could have just cast a different tribe member to begin with. Preferably one that is better than a 2/2 that might a copy of itself when it dies. Sure, everyone once in awhile you'll loop a Sidisi or something (never happened to me), but the other 49/50 games you're going to wish you cast something other than a 2 mana 2/2.
@Jesse N I understand what you are saying, and I'm not saying it's good in every deck I'm just saying that I've enjoyed it just as something to recurably sac and trigger my gravepacts and the like. But I can also see how most zombie tribal deck wouldn't want it.
I'm with Crim here. My zombie deck purposefully doesn't play Gravecrawler as it's only good for comboing and my deck only has place for one game winning combo (which only requires 2 cards, not 3)
There are plenty of cards that synergize with Gravecrawler that aren't infinite combos. I'd be interested to know which 2 card combo you're running that's better than phyrexian altar/Gravecrawler. Sure Altar/crawler requires a 3rd card as a payoff, but both pieces synergize with the deck so nicely.
@@kaszael I tried that combo, I kept the rooftop storm because it has other combos but I didn't like acererak. Not liking Gravecrawler definitely limits some amounts of your combos in UB zombies, but there are lots of others. It's one of the reasons I love UB zombies, specifically Wilhelt, lots of combos.
My second deck I ever built was a mono-green hydra deck. In it is a single card from the WH40K set. Nexos I think. It's a creature card that says mana spent on X costs is doubled, which is obviously great for a hydra deck. But... it sticks out. And I hate it. I think Universes Beyond is really cool, but I absolutely hate that they include new mechanics and unique cards. UB is at its best when it's just new art for old cards. If they're gonna do new mechanics that's cool, but the next set for actual Magic should have that mechanic. For instance, Fallout introduced junk tokens and rad counters. Are they EVER going to do more stuff with rad counters? They easily could, but will they? I doubt it.
Crim LOVES to live dangerously! Also in a tribal deck, it's easy to auto include the card. They ARE content creators building new decks nearly every week. If you had to build THAT many decks constantly... you'd make mistakes too, give Crim some slack. Also GO TEAM CRIMMM! The TRUE Avenger!😈
Personally I enjoy the partner pair Tormod and Ludvic... you've got to have someone who makes experimental zombies with the other raising the classic dead zombie. Excellent balance and all Zombie decks are valid! 😆
Relentless dead is good because it's modal. Early game you are returning it for 1 mana then late game it starts reanimating. People neglect mana sinks imo. Relentless dead also makes sure it sticks around to see thelate game on one card. Just because you aren't comboing off everytime you play it doesn't mean it's bad. People are still playing reassembling skeleton right now.
Reassembling Skeleton is better than Relentless Dead by a lot; it doesn't require you to have the mana available at the moment it dies and you can loop it for a mana cheaper with a sac outlet. If Reassembling Skeleton was a zombie it would make the deck. Single target reanimation in zombies sucks. Average lists don't run reanimate for a reason; there are very few good targets. Especially so when you have to pay X where X is the MV of the creature you want to reanimate. Sure every once in awhile (never for me in like 50+ games I played with it though) you're going to feel like a genius when you can reanimate a Sidisi with Relentless Dead but the other 49/50 games you're just going to sac it to Wilhelt/Ghoulcaller Ghisa/whatever and not have 3 extra mana around to make use of its ability. You might (I did, maybe twice) rebuy the Relentless Dead itself, but big deal, any other card you cast should have gotten you more value than a 2/2 + a card hopefully.
I opened commander legends collector packs and swore I’d never buy collectors again. The cards were terrible inked and faded with curling right out of the box.
Rakdos Charm following the Rise of the Dark Realms having creatures deal damage to their owners probably kills Phil and leaves everyone else alive and not even damaged that much.
Tom was correct in his assessment, the goal wasn't just to take out one player but to win the game. Without Phil in the game... we ALL know how much longer the game goes without Phil.
I think Tomer is not fair with Relentless Dead. It's not a mass reanimaton card like patrairch's bidding that will help you protect/rebuild after a boardwipe, but it is repeatable. You don't have to look at it as a way to rebuild, you have to look at it as a way to get stupid value in the late game out of it and just a single carrion feeder (or any other kind of sac outlet). You don't keep mana up, you spend it on your turn because you are killing your own Relentless Dead
I know it's repeatable and a mana sink. As I explain in the video, I think it's an unnecessary mana sink because it's in a tribe that has way better things it can do with its mana.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander I mean, isn't it a better mana sink than Withered Wretch? (I like the wretch, don't get me wrong, I think mana sinks are underrated in edh. But I would run both)
@@Ricardo-zo1ti no, it's not better than Withered Wretch. Wretch is interaction, Wretch can stop your opponents from comboing. You're not getting "stupid value in the late game out of it" as you suggest, you're getting like a 2/2 or 3/3 for 5 or 6 mana at sorcery speed. There aren't a lot of good zombies looking for single target reanimation, they are all replacement level. If you MUST have this effect, which in zombies I think isnt needed, run Phyrexian Reclamation instead. It's not a zombie, but it still going to be leagues better than Relentless Dead in your deck.
@@jayjayhooksch1 I disagree. This is still attached to a 2/2 for 2 zombie, that still gets pumped, gets reanimated by your mass reanimation, etc. I wouldn't run an enchantment instead: You don't run this because you "must" have the effect, or because it's the best one out there, you run it because the opportunity cost is very low and the upside can get really good
@@Ricardo-zo1ti we can agree to disagree on how good the upside is, I think it's mediocre at best. And how much the opportunity cost is, I think it's high since a 2/2 menace for 2 is a bad card in 2023. The fact that it triggers your zombie synergies is irrelevant if you replace it with another zombie and almost irrelevant if you replace it with reclamation because reclamation will buy back zombies to trigger your synergies. Sure, it can't be mass reanimated, but a 2/2 with menace is not doing much in a mass reanimation sense either.
Phil was absolutely correct not to destroy the Black Market. He's always the one getting killed first, it isn't his job to solve the table's problems - especially when they usually decide that the problem is Phil! He's got to look out for himself.
Go team PHIl! Though to be honest I love all of them! Just wish Tomer.... would complain a bit less.
Definitely agree considering his board position at the time. And I'm glad the team didn't give him too much flak from it (it was more trying to convince him but not really complaining about his decision).
Tomer dropped the zombie master and immediately started begging Crim to wipe the board because he didn't realize it gave all zombies swampwalk. All Crim had to do was attack Tomer with the Scarb God and have Tomer block since it wasn't a zombie.
Crim does like to have players LEARN their lesson, it's in Crim's best interest to leave it and have Tomer draw aggro.
Crim is a CRAFTY player and that's why I'm on Team Crim, Crim #1 with each caster member in 3rd place with the exception of Phil and Tom at #2. 😆😘👌
@@zerrokwooley3741 I’ve been thinking for a while to make a player stats chart.
For Tomer for example, his deck building is super good, so that would be 5/5. But politics for example would be lower. However Crum would get a 5 for politics.
I’m thinking:
Deck building
Card sequencing (correct order of plays)
Threat assessment
Politics
Strategy (which card to play and when)
Anything else?
@@koenvandepoll927 That's a cool idea. All your criteria are based on gameplay aspects though. Clash is often about flavor or theme. Maybe a criteria on theme adherence or something like that? Phil is quite good with that for example.
It seems that Tomer has issues reading the cards lol
Phil: “I don’t wanna pay 2 bucks for the fable token”
Me in the us: “12 dollars for the token please”
That's the top performing Jwari's Disruption ever 🤣
Non-zombie count (incl. commanders):
Phil: 8
Tomer: 7
Tom: 6
Crim: 4
I think Tom miss killing Phil using Rakdos Charm by dealing 1 dmg for each creature in response to Ayara ETBs after Rise of the Dead, no need to exile the graveyard, just ask Crim to exile the Carrion Feeder (so Phil can't sacrifice most creatures to avoid dying to Rakdos Charm). PD:this doesnt work if there is another free Sac Outlet in another graveyard.
I'm not quite sure, because Phil had access to Phyrexian tower to sac at the very least 1 creature. He would need 19 creatures on the board (17hp, at 1 hp/creature -1 creature sacced -1 blood artist trigger)
Definitely one of the best episodes in recent memory, couldn't stop laughing! Tomer drawing gravecrawler at the very end was the cherry on top!
When Crim mana drained the monument with his own monument in hand I was sitting up pointing at my screen going “Do it, maximum BM come on!”
When he said they were "friends" because Phil "helped" him cast the Scarab God, I was in stitches. XD It's just the right amount of BM within a circle of friends/coworkers.
Tom: “This was not a discussion, this was an offer.”
Brutal! 😂 Glad to have you back on CC this season
Tomer's head is exploding at the end of the match 😂
Crowd surf the Karn!
Great video! Another great zombie commander is Sultai Sidisi (brood tyrant) -- can do a lands subtheme to power out the big reanimate spells like Rise of the Dark Realms!
"Let's find out who climbs out of their grave; and who gets cast into the pit!" - #Tomer'sUnderWriter
More like is 6 feet under writer.
wondering if there was a line where rise of the dark realms resolved, and then phil died to a rakdos charm. can't tell if there are too many sac outlets in graveyards or not.
With phill on the frames for immersion. I love the UB stuff but when I got my Necrons deck adding a card to it that didn’t have the warhmer frame made it stand out so strongly. Even cards that are picture wise aesthetic. When 90+ cards on your deck have identical frames the few different ones are egregious.
Never notice it in other decks that have a large spread of special frames and mixed borders. It’s just that decks where so much of it is the same and only a few are different.
its always a good day when the hero phil overcomes the villain Tomer
Facts
NOXIOUS GHOUL IS GOING TO POP OFF
Busted
It can only kill non-Zombie creatures. In a normal pod, that's fine, but not so much when everyone is playing Zombie Tribal.
@@natejablonski you don’t say :) surely the OP wasn’t aware
It would've been surprisingly good against Phil lmao
On this week of "Punt or Bluff?" Braaaiiiiinnnnnsssss..... Will brains devour brains or will brains.... BRAAAAAAAINNNSSSS??? Tune-in for BRAAAIIINNNSS!!!
I actually like Phil's deck. Zombie TOKEN deck with nonzombie support
Tomer with the angriest GG in history
Jwari disruption. Tomer, Seth would be so proud. Lol 😂
Speaking of titans, since the sword cycle is about to be completed, the theros elder titans would be fun to speculate on. Would be hilarious if the blue black one made big body deathtouch zombie tokens
That thumbnail art is amazing!
27:30 Lore Note: Tezzeret mentions Grixis in the ONE story
I was laughing so loud at the zombie master I had to rewind the episode a little to hear what I missed
Now that they’ve done a zombie week they should do a vampire week too
Vampires aren’t real. Zombies are.
Would Arabian Nights be WOTC’s first attempt of making a Universe Beyond set?
When they do a return x return x return to Innistrad set I think they should so after a significant time skip to explain a technological advancement of the plane. And this is because I think the next theme for the set should be a industrial revolution inspired version of Innistrad with certain elements of steam punk.
Both gothic horror and steam punk share a Victorian aesthetic so you can keep the general look of the plane the same. Only now instead of carriages racing down cobblestone roads only lit by lamp and sparse rays of the moonlight you have steam bellowing trains roaring through dark countryside. Zombies grafted with new products of industrial revolution. Shamans, angels, and practitioners of the old ways struggle to adapt to the new age of technological advancment. The new era of industry has also led to a declining vampire and werewolf population who now commit gruesome and dangerous feedings in the now crowded industrialized cities of Innistrad.
Explorers and scientists have now developed vessels capable of exploring the deep seas of Innistrad. The mysteries of gigantic, unexplainable creatures who sometime wash upon the shores can now be searched. But what will these men do when they discover the horrors that still lurk the plane in its deepest places, where neither moon nor Heron's light can reach.
I just really see Innistrad as a good setting for a Magic inspired Jules Verne adventure. I can see a good Jack the Ripper subplot. And a BioShock zombie abomination would be cool.
Really liked everyone showing off their blinged our commanders :) cool to see!
It seems like Tom got a new cam. Looking sharp!
I so badly wanted to see Phil cast that Rise from the Dark realms and it didn't disappoint lol! Super fun game to watch!
ooooh.. the Jwari Disruption coming in clutch.. beautiful
All praise Phil and window Jesus! Good game
Tom playing tht rakdos charm for the exile instead of the damage to player per creature they own was a huge whifff 😅
So was focusing Tomer instead of Phil, they could have kept Phil from winning.
@@atk9989 yeah but tomer was being annoying and kinda king making
The fact that wilhelt isn’t on moto is hilarious
First vampire wedding, next werewolf bar mitzvah.
I'm losing my mind hearing Tom explain why it's good to tap out on MTGO when there are yields that let you do the same thing without losing access to your mana. Phil tried to explain it but no one was listening.
Also, it didn’t really need to be explained anyways. Tom seems to talk to the viewers too much while other players are trying to play and converse. That’s the impression I get after watching a couple of these episodes.
Deadapult is still one of my favorite cards.
Surprised no one is running Pyre of Heroes. Zombies and Slivers have been my most successful tribes for the Pyre.
Tomer dragging Relentless Dead, Crim ardently defending it, and Tomer immediately being proven right was a wonderful storyline.
Relentless dead is excellent. Zombies care about 2 things: zombie bodies on the battlefield, and getting back zombies from the graveyard.
Relentless dead is a zombie body that keeps coming back in the early game, and in the late game it gets back another zombie. Excellent mana sink.
On top of that, the art is freaking amazing. 10/10.
Relentless Dead is overrated because people seem to think that Zombies cares about single target reanimation much more than it actually does. If you look on edhrec you'll see that the average list of the most popular zombie commander doesn't run the card Reanimate. This is because there is really only one decent tribe member to reanimate: rot hulk. Just about everything else in the list is replacement level, where you'd be equally as happy having drawn any tribe member as you would be having drawn reanimate and even more so in the early game when the yard is empty.
The same logic applies to Relentless Dead; you'd most often rather just have the 2/2 menace that you already paid for than a random zombie from your graveyard. So if it's the case that you'd rather just have the zombie you already paid for, why not just pay for a better zombie in the first place?
You could argue the mana sink point, where if you have 3 extra mana laying around then it's better than a random other zombie, and I'd agree with you there. The problem is you rarely ever have 3 extra mana laying around except when you're behind, and when you're behind you are probably wishing your Relentless Dead was a different card.
@@jayjayhooksch1 Well put.
Varina confirmed best zombie commander.
I'd reckon it's one of the best due to colors provided. Varina does get blown out with cards that constantly remove the grave. IE: Leyline of the void.
That's the kind of Jwari Disruption that makes a player have recurring nightmares
Very entertaining episode.
Can we get an all goblin week and tier list at some point?
In terms of politics this game was insane. Just back and forth chaos, I loved it. Gotta love the unintentional Tom and Tomer alliance
1:15:00 "Crim-Sedai never lies, but the Truth He tells you is never the truth you think it is."
But most importantly.... grave crawler. The pinup secret lair version.
Anyone else having trouble with the deck list link?
Would love to see an episode of commander clash in which ChatGPT builds each of you a deck
bone miser is nice in varina
In regards to Relentless Dead, I think the reason why Tomer doesn't get why it's good is that he's never played a commander that it is good in. I've found in Wilhelt and Grimgrin decks it's one of your best cards, allowing you to continuously replay your value zombies. Saccing it to Wilhelt to then replay Fell Stinger to go up 3 cards and still have two decayed tokens every turn can build insane value. However with pretty much every zombie commander that doesn't have a built in sac outlet it is really mediocre
bingo. it's insane in wilhelt but mid in varina.
It's the 100th card in my Wilhelt deck, as soon as they print another decent 2 drop zombie, Relentless Dead gets the axe.
I've probably played 75 games with it and the best it's ever done is rebought itself for a single mana. 99% of the time it's worse than Lazotep Reaver.
@@jayjayhooksch1 it's insane in my build. Constantly recurring Fleshbag Marauders and Sidisi, Undead Viziers absolutely dominates mid power commander games
@@GoDzJtFr I play those cards as well, it just never comes up. Either the mana cost is too prohibitive or I sacced it way earlier to draw a card digging for something relevant.
The only reason I keep playing it is because there aren't that many good 2 drop zombies. There's Undead Auger, Undead Butler and Withered Wretch as good utility options. Then there's a few 2 drops that are decent sac fodder; Lazotep Reaver, Putrid Goblin and Butcher Ghoul. After that the options fall off a cliff; it's either Relentless Dead or Mire Triton and honestly Triton would have been better for me 99% of the time. I just keep giving Relentless Dead the benefit of the doubt because it has so much text that it should be good, right?
What we need is a 2 drop zombie sac outlet so that Pyre of Heroes has more good targets.
It's such a bad zombie - maybe 4 years ago it was ok, but there are better options now. It probably doesn't make the 130th card right now. It feels like most people who like it are the ones running Endless Ranks, because they both have sweet zombie stained-glass art.
I like how Tom segways the conversation during wrap up.
*Thanks for the Content**
I built zombies for my son, Muldrotha is the best Zombie commander
Which commander raises to the top/claws its way to victory/shuffles to the finish line/can devour the competition.
Gotta rate this an F, since _none_ of you included a single copy of Rot Hulk. Seriously, what are you doing?
Oh wow I didn't know the card existed 😳 seems pretty sick
Yeah, Rot Hulk is awesome. Must include card for sure
Tomer is really good at not reading cards it like every game now
T'is a lot of content to create while also trying to manage a game AND have a friendly conversation ANDDDD remember to narrate for viewers.
Tomer puts in a lot of work so mayhap cut Tomer some slack, eh? 🤔😆👌
all the stuff that Phil plays week after week, and he says 'Scarab God is such a mistake'....
Phil constantly strives NOT to play the absolutely broken cards that are Broken BY themselves.
Phil is a value player and that's just how value decks play out. Honestly Phil plays to have a good time. Easy to critique a content creator but if you were in their shoes, I'd reckon people would call you out on double standards.
I say this with love. 🥰😘👌
I agree with Phil that the UB border is pretty ugly. I wouldn't call that "immersion breaking"
Looking for to know how many gods did Crim uses in the deck to have Path of ancestry
They've mentioned on the podcast before that Path makes the cut as a tapped dual land that can scry, and Crim and Richard have mentioned running it in virtually every multi color deck even if it's not tribal
LMAO, To When Tomer drew That Last Caed.
Crim I understand your pain
Relentless Dead and mass reanimation aren't comparable things, they have nothing in common and serve very different jobs. Relentless dead is for Aristocrats type strategies. It allows you to loop cards in an out of your graveyard repeatedly to accrew value over time. Yes it is less mana efficient than mass reanimation but again its not for that. It is at its best when you are bringing back things that make a bunch of tokens like deranged hermit or the symbiotic cycle. Then you can sac that thing, sac the tokens, and sac the relentless dead and bring it back and do it again. It is more similar to a card like phyrexian reclamation or tortured existence than it is to mass reanimation.
Exactly this ^
Agreed.
However Relentless Dead is also a really bad phyrexian reclamation effect and zombies doesn't really want phyrexian reclamation effects. That's why they don't even play good phyrexian reclamation effects.
@Jesse N I don't know about that. I think they both have advantages, and you could build zombies to be more aristocratic, but I agree that a lot of builds don't want those effects.
@@Titanreaver616 my zombies deck is fairly aristocratic, it wins via mass reanimation a lot of the time, bringing back Grey Merchant as well as Plague Belcher, Diregraf Captain and Vengeful dead.
I still wouldn't touch relentless dead again. I did for awhile, played 50+ games with it and the best thing it ever did was rebuy itself after being sacced to Wilhelt, which is fine I guess, but even that didn't happen often. Never once did I have the mana to reanimate anything when it died let alone live the dream of getting it back and reanimating something lol
So despite being aristocratic, relentless dead still sucked. I also wouldn't have wanted Phyrexian Reclamation in the deck either though, not enough high value individual targets. You might notice cards like this are absent from average lists on edhrec, including the card reanimate. There just isn't a lot of value in spending a card and life (in reanimate's case) or so much mana (in relentless dead's case) to get back a replacement level tribe member, which so what your graveyard is usually going to be full of, when you could have just cast a different tribe member to begin with. Preferably one that is better than a 2/2 that might a copy of itself when it dies.
Sure, everyone once in awhile you'll loop a Sidisi or something (never happened to me), but the other 49/50 games you're going to wish you cast something other than a 2 mana 2/2.
@Jesse N I understand what you are saying, and I'm not saying it's good in every deck I'm just saying that I've enjoyed it just as something to recurably sac and trigger my gravepacts and the like. But I can also see how most zombie tribal deck wouldn't want it.
wow nobody played the best zombie commander? Morophon?
Could Tomer not maybe have survived another turn?
Not everything Phil had, had Swampwalk.
Crim defending the EMOs and Goths who liked the vampire wedding and would love a bettlejuice card XD
best zombie commander and Crim did not lock in moriphon? what is this? oh Seth must have wanted it
Crim does absolutely praise The Scarab God. Crimmy and Crim-style!
Go team Crim! Oh and second favorite is Team Phil!
Crm is the hero this game, Tomer and Phil were just henchmen to Tom the villain
Did Tomer move? He's in a completely different room looks like
I'm with Crim here. My zombie deck purposefully doesn't play Gravecrawler as it's only good for comboing and my deck only has place for one game winning combo (which only requires 2 cards, not 3)
There are plenty of cards that synergize with Gravecrawler that aren't infinite combos.
I'd be interested to know which 2 card combo you're running that's better than phyrexian altar/Gravecrawler. Sure Altar/crawler requires a 3rd card as a payoff, but both pieces synergize with the deck so nicely.
@@jayjayhooksch1 That would be Rooftop Storm + Acererak. And I just find Gravecrawler to be a boring zombie overall.
@@kaszael I tried that combo, I kept the rooftop storm because it has other combos but I didn't like acererak. Not liking Gravecrawler definitely limits some amounts of your combos in UB zombies, but there are lots of others. It's one of the reasons I love UB zombies, specifically Wilhelt, lots of combos.
maybe not so good in zombie week... but i feel no jadar deck is complete without a copy of contamination
My second deck I ever built was a mono-green hydra deck. In it is a single card from the WH40K set. Nexos I think. It's a creature card that says mana spent on X costs is doubled, which is obviously great for a hydra deck. But... it sticks out. And I hate it.
I think Universes Beyond is really cool, but I absolutely hate that they include new mechanics and unique cards. UB is at its best when it's just new art for old cards.
If they're gonna do new mechanics that's cool, but the next set for actual Magic should have that mechanic. For instance, Fallout introduced junk tokens and rad counters. Are they EVER going to do more stuff with rad counters? They easily could, but will they? I doubt it.
How about an episode about bands/songs? You could invite MtGRemy for that episode.
Crim... How could you not put "Peer Pressure" into your deck in this week =(
I hope patriarchs bidding gets full value
Does Empty the pits not make the cut in any of these? It's instant speed so surprise zombies at EOT. Better than Endless ranks of the dead imo
Why is Crim playing a Path of Ancestry, when is his commander is a god and in his deck are only zombies?
Crim LOVES to live dangerously! Also in a tribal deck, it's easy to auto include the card.
They ARE content creators building new decks nearly every week. If you had to build THAT many decks constantly... you'd make mistakes too, give Crim some slack.
Also GO TEAM CRIMMM! The TRUE Avenger!😈
When I saw the theme on release day I thought y'all were playing zombies to celebrate the release of Resident Evil 4 Remake.
Sultai Sidisi for best Zombie Token commander
100% agreed
Personally I enjoy the partner pair Tormod and Ludvic... you've got to have someone who makes experimental zombies with the other raising the classic dead zombie.
Excellent balance and all Zombie decks are valid! 😆
Zombies win human week and humans commander wins zombie week....
Link for the article in the comments is broken
Relentless dead is good because it's modal. Early game you are returning it for 1 mana then late game it starts reanimating. People neglect mana sinks imo. Relentless dead also makes sure it sticks around to see thelate game on one card. Just because you aren't comboing off everytime you play it doesn't mean it's bad. People are still playing reassembling skeleton right now.
Reassembling Skeleton is better than Relentless Dead by a lot; it doesn't require you to have the mana available at the moment it dies and you can loop it for a mana cheaper with a sac outlet. If Reassembling Skeleton was a zombie it would make the deck.
Single target reanimation in zombies sucks. Average lists don't run reanimate for a reason; there are very few good targets. Especially so when you have to pay X where X is the MV of the creature you want to reanimate.
Sure every once in awhile (never for me in like 50+ games I played with it though) you're going to feel like a genius when you can reanimate a Sidisi with Relentless Dead but the other 49/50 games you're just going to sac it to Wilhelt/Ghoulcaller Ghisa/whatever and not have 3 extra mana around to make use of its ability. You might (I did, maybe twice) rebuy the Relentless Dead itself, but big deal, any other card you cast should have gotten you more value than a 2/2 + a card hopefully.
I opened commander legends collector packs and swore I’d never buy collectors again.
The cards were terrible inked and faded with curling right out of the box.
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The whole game I just kept thinking tomer is bad and should feel bad about he played this game lol
Like the interactions, sad that is over mox ….. is just not the same
Is my pet zombie card Tombstone Stairwell on Magic Online?
Phil you should check out the price for a Koma Coil token lmao
Hey phil, i think skyclave got fixed!
Too bad crim didn’t win zombie week with humans
Rakdos Charm following the Rise of the Dark Realms having creatures deal damage to their owners probably kills Phil and leaves everyone else alive and not even damaged that much.
Tom was correct in his assessment, the goal wasn't just to take out one player but to win the game. Without Phil in the game... we ALL know how much longer the game goes without Phil.
the scarab god eternalized Crim oh no
can they see eachother's hands at all times?
No, that's added in editing for the benefit of you, the viewer
Turn 2 shenanigans 😂😂
Farewell is too powerful to be a fun card. Same with Cyclonic rift. I will never play them myself, despise them.
Best zombie commander is wilhelt.
Decklists?
I think Tomer is not fair with Relentless Dead. It's not a mass reanimaton card like patrairch's bidding that will help you protect/rebuild after a boardwipe, but it is repeatable. You don't have to look at it as a way to rebuild, you have to look at it as a way to get stupid value in the late game out of it and just a single carrion feeder (or any other kind of sac outlet). You don't keep mana up, you spend it on your turn because you are killing your own Relentless Dead
I know it's repeatable and a mana sink. As I explain in the video, I think it's an unnecessary mana sink because it's in a tribe that has way better things it can do with its mana.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander I mean, isn't it a better mana sink than Withered Wretch? (I like the wretch, don't get me wrong, I think mana sinks are underrated in edh. But I would run both)
@@Ricardo-zo1ti no, it's not better than Withered Wretch. Wretch is interaction, Wretch can stop your opponents from comboing.
You're not getting "stupid value in the late game out of it" as you suggest, you're getting like a 2/2 or 3/3 for 5 or 6 mana at sorcery speed. There aren't a lot of good zombies looking for single target reanimation, they are all replacement level.
If you MUST have this effect, which in zombies I think isnt needed, run Phyrexian Reclamation instead. It's not a zombie, but it still going to be leagues better than Relentless Dead in your deck.
@@jayjayhooksch1 I disagree. This is still attached to a 2/2 for 2 zombie, that still gets pumped, gets reanimated by your mass reanimation, etc. I wouldn't run an enchantment instead: You don't run this because you "must" have the effect, or because it's the best one out there, you run it because the opportunity cost is very low and the upside can get really good
@@Ricardo-zo1ti we can agree to disagree on how good the upside is, I think it's mediocre at best. And how much the opportunity cost is, I think it's high since a 2/2 menace for 2 is a bad card in 2023. The fact that it triggers your zombie synergies is irrelevant if you replace it with another zombie and almost irrelevant if you replace it with reclamation because reclamation will buy back zombies to trigger your synergies. Sure, it can't be mass reanimated, but a 2/2 with menace is not doing much in a mass reanimation sense either.
Isn't Cyclonic Rift house banned?
Love the content! I do love Tomer... Would also love if Tomer would whine less. Not great to listen to Tomer whine non-stop
How is Crim going to win with Humans?
Tom trying his hardest to punt to Phil (with 99% of an infinite openly on board) with the cruel ultimatum on tomer