History Primer 150: British Webley Royal Irish Constabulary Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ม.ค. 2022
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
candrsenal.com/primer-gallery/
Additional reading:
candrsenal.com/recommend-read...
The Webley Story
William Chipchase Dowell
The Gun Makers of Birmingham 1660 - 1960
Joseph McKenna
Webley Revolvers
Gordon Bruce and Christian Reinhart
Webley Solid Frame Revolvers
Models RIC, MP, and No.5
Joel Black, Joseph L. Davis, Roger G. Michaud
Adams' Revolvers
WHJ Chamberlain and AWF Taylerson
The Revolver 1865 - 1888
A.W.F. Taylerson
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Animations by Bruno!
/ @baanimations3689
Snail Mail/Contact us at:
candrsenal.com/contact/
![[UNCUT] ฝันรักห้วงนิทรา | EP.9 (3/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ikd1tEhXbp8/mqdefault.jpg)
A handgun so British, it came with a monocle and a desire to absorb random territories in your community lol🤣
Keep a stiff upper lip.
Lol! - Indeed! 🤠
If your speaking English too, you haven’t got a leg to stand on either.
@@kurtzmcintyre8756 salty?
😂😂😂😂
I know this is a small arms channel, but right now I really want to hear more about deranged Toronto firemen.
I don’t know who, but someone has covered that here on TH-cam. I would start with “The History Guy”.
Yeah, type Toronto circus riot and it comes up.
Here's the story...
th-cam.com/video/RYUhKcJAsrQ/w-d-xo.html
@@minuteman4199 thanks. I don’t know how to do that.
move to Toronto and see many many deranged people walking around in face nappies
Was definitely not what I was expecting when Othais said I was going to be shooting some Webleys.
OK, I have to ask- why the weirdly low grip on the gun when you were firing it? I have an 1883 and a very high grip makes everything about firing it better.
And one made for a scarier scenario than trench warfare…policing Irish pubs.
Mae,
Thank you for your review of the RIC and bulldog. You experienced the pain so I don't have to! I keep wondering how often people cut or pinched their finger on that little sear at the back of the trigger guard. Was that an issue?
@@tinkerpearce They discuss it at about 51 minutes. a high grip means your trigger finger is angled over the trigger and way too close. I guess because people have different size hands.
I could see that on your face as you shot it.
There is something about old revolvers that are just pleasing to look at.
I would not be afraid to carry a top break Webley, albeit with modern ammo and speed loaders, for police duty in 2022.
I almost bought a 450 Webley off of Gunbroker last year, but it only blank's. They also wanted 5 million dollar's for it. It was the one used by Harrison Ford in Raiders of the Lost Ark. I tried to buy it, but they wouldn't take my 9.87 dollar's. It still might be on Gunbroker. Have a great night my 2A friend.
@@jacobmccandles1767yeah because you’re 12 and have no real life experience or any idea what you’re talking about
@@bcb5696 lol...yes, 12. Good guess!
*My grandkids found it amusing!*
I carried a .357 on duty until 2015. It was far more accurate than my issued Block. I have hunted everything from cottontails to deer and antelope with it. I can reload it in about 3 seconds. Never had to pop a perp, but I carried Buffalo Bore's hot 125gr load; I am sure that if I had, he'd have stayed hit.
... but a top-break webley shaved for .45 ACP moon clips, launching a 185gr HP or 200gr wadcutter, would be nothing to sneeze at. At about 350 ft/lbs it rivals the 9mm I'm now issued.
One of the few times working night shift has a perk
God speed friend
Was just in the museum at Colin's Baracks in Dublin yesterday and wondered could I find more info on this RIC Webley and boy did I hit the jackpot! Great video.
"This weapon belonged to you father. I served with him in the Clown Wars."
🤣
Very well done Jari :)
"an elegant weapon for a more civilized age"
Many fire companies in urban areas were volunteer in the 19th century and they were paid by the insurance companies. The individual companies fought each other for the right to put out the fire and get paid.
Boss tweed unironically was known to carry an axe into these events earlier in his life
should still be that way today...nothing like a little strong arming and fisticuffs in the street to get the heart racing
@@mikepette4422 knowing some fire fighters, trust me they wish it was too. It’s THEIR turn to play with the big boy water gun
@@mikepette4422 God bless the free market
Yeah, we all saw Gangs of New York too.
Webleys were also acquired by the British South Africa Company for the Rhodesian colony. The BSAP armories still had some in stock in 38 special and .45 ACP.
And the Egyptian police too (in 450 i guess)
@@Zorglub1966 they were chambered in 455 actually
@@bentremblay913 thank you😉
Mae's face for the second shooting bit, just wow, tells you all you need to know
she did not like that pistol
To be fair I own a similar pattern Webley and they really do need to be shot with a bent arm, the shooting style at the time and operated with a fair bit of authority.
Makes it a bit more pleasant... A bit.
I genuinely love the work You have done to take revolvers from the “Simple handguns” to expounding on their design and development!
Webley should have made a .22Lr derringer called “the chihuahua”.
.22 Magnum would be the "Terrier" ?
Loving this series on British bulldog revolvers
I've been collecting Webleys over 35 yrs. 70+ currently in my collection. Iconic and fascinating to say the least!!
Hoarding*
@@yeedbottomtext7563
Nope just got collecting when they were affordable and bought the models/varients I didn't have and it turned out there was a greater no# than I could have imagined!!!!!
You're on my watch list!
Othias has conquered his enemy, the constablurry
All 150 plus shows watched ! how does this channel not have 1 million subscribers!!!!
youtube suppression.
@@thurin84 modern attention spans and a niche subject. Not everyone wants to sit through a 1+ hour documentary on the minute details of the history and design of old guns.
@@colemanmoore9871 while thats true, its also true youtube suppress such subjects.
I've seen Mae shoot an anti-tank rifle and smile. This pistol must have an awful recoil to make her look so grim.
The Starr revolver (a highly underrated gun) had the exposed sear behind the trigger, as I recall.
Is that the revolver that required a tool to open the cylinder?
Interesting how much peacekeeping/colonial endeavors influences wartime attitudes (the Phillipines, Algeria, Ireland, etc.)
It's also interesting seeing how the ideas they got from oppressing less advanced peoples totally skewed their ideas of war and weapons for the Great War. Technological parity really was a rude awakening and led to that slaughter.
@@corey3606 Just like the Germans and their Stuka. It was a Terror Weapon until they went up against someone who shoots back.
Thank God you still love firearms history..Keep spreading the word
Love the RIC pattern.
I started many years ago buying the Belgian copies (usually marked "British "Bull-Dog" or some such) in several calibers. Haven't managed to get my hands on a genuine Webley but hey, at least I have goals. :D
I saw one at a local gun shop the other day. It looked like a Mk6, although I'm not an expert. Asking price was 4000 bucks. I have no idea whether this is a fair price or not because it's the only one I've ever seen.
@@minuteman4199 I dunno the going rate, either.
However, kinda the opposite here. There was a guy at every gun show who had a "Webley RIC" .. that was clearly a Belgian Bulldog copy (Belgian proof mark plain to see). He had a ridiculously high price on it. I kept telling him it wasn't what he thought it was. Needless to say, as far as I know he never managed to sell it.
I've got over 70 Wesley's. 3 Bulldogs in 320, 442 & 455CF!!
How do I contact you? I have one for sale?
"You're not supposed to touch it down there"
- Othais, 2022
You are right, Tranter was a name i had never heard of behind marketing giants like Webley and Colt, despite their designs being so closely intertwined as they progressed. This revolver series has been one of my favorites so far, thank you.
I like that RIC 83 - the "Chief's Special" of 1883 :D
I own a few webleys including an interesting No.1 in .442 webley that was retailed by rosier in Melbourne
Melbourne Australia?
I bet they're interested, best option is to email so it doesn't get lost in the comments
@@justsmallstuff4994 yep Melbourne Australia. James Rosier owned a gun shop there and even supplied weapons to the police who were after the Kelly gang from what I've heard.
Also have a No.2 that was retailed in the UK in .38CF that I suspect was a back up gun for a police officer with the original holster.
I've got an engraved Rosier, PreRIC, No.2 in .320CF
@@tedwilliams476 sounds like a beauty, if you are in Australia and ever feel like selling it, let me know.
Thank you I was always curious about the RIC revolvers. A 10$ patron.
Congratulations on episode 150 I appreciate all the work you do. You guys make my every other Tuesday the best day of the week.
Ahhhh, the Irish Question.... thanks for covering this.
You selected shooting section song very nicely in this video
Thank you for sharing your extensive research.
TY for all your hard work and content contributions.
Great job as always!
Just have to say that I loved the PBS bit at the beginning.
I know "riots related to circus clowns getting into fights in a bordello" isn't supposed to be funny, but ... what.
great episode as always
Me: It’s late but I’m going to watch this now because it’s educational and good for me
Also me: sleep is also good for me…
And just like that, war were declared.
Ok, you deserve a like for that, I feel you 😂
Yup
🤣
Excellent episode.
Awesome "final version" video, subtle changes very smooth!
another amazing episode!
Amazing episode! I love these rickety old revolvers, and Maes face when shooting the pocket Webley really something!
NOTHING rickety about a Webley. They were the Colts of he British Empire. Actually as many on the Western Frontier as the Colt
@@tedwilliams476 , I'm just waiting for Uberi to make a decent replica for CAS-shooting....
I have an 1883 RIC in .450 Adams, and it goes to show how different people's hands work and how different guns of the same type can vary. First the grip works fine for me even though I have large hands, and the milder .450 Adams doesn't give me problems with recoil at all. I did make me seriously question whether I'd want to shoot the gun in .455; I could see that would be unpleasant. The double-action trigger on mine is also excellent, not overly heavy and glass-smooth, I actually find it very pleasant to shoot and easy to get good accuracy at 7 yards. That being said with her smaller hand, the harder-recoiling cartridge and a less refined DA trigger I completely get why Mae didn't like it.
Very informative!
Thank you very much for sharing!
love this show
Awesome Video!
You went ahead and made my day!!
So glad you put the bulldog in there. This webly series is gonna be awesome.
Finally, **the** bulldog revolver, I was waiting for that since your funny video with the fosberry and the RIC.
But now that you hinted at a possible video for the british army webleys, which are one of my favourite type of revolvers, I'm even more interested!
This is exactly what i've been waiting for
I have a couple knock off RIC / Bulldog Belgian revolvers in .442. They are unpleasant to shoot. Even with my small hands I can’t get a full grip, it’s no wonder there was a market for the .44 bulldog.
Very interesting episode! Love this look at weapons outside of WW1. I love early cartridge development.
been waiting for today;s episode to drop
I have hoped you would do the RIC. When the Tranter video dropped, my pulse increased. Seriously. And now, here it is! You have made at least one subscriber VERY, VERY happy.
Excellent to see this episode. I had a late 83 once in 450 with a slightly longer grip. Yours looks overpowered by the .455. In 450 black powder it was quite easy to handle and the slightly longer grip kept the hand in place. The 83 really was a pistol to go in the coat pocket so the size had to be kept within bounds. Just as a pistol the bigger longer barrel classic RIC is better to shoot of course. Webley could see the loading was falling behind in ease so addressed it in the following break open revolvers but the RIC remained a sound cheaper option.
In trivia: Warwickshire is pronounced ‘Warrik - shur. Thank you Othias and May.
You had me at circus clowns fighting in a bordello!
Look up “The Circus Riots of 1855” by The History Guy.
thank you for this video. I am researching the RIC.
I need to visit Toronto. Those people know how to party.
You should show up at a fire station dressed as a clown with boxing gloves and demand a rematch.
Constabularying were Declared!
I love the PBS plug. 🤣🤣🤣
Great epasoid, thank you..
There is a US conection to the RIC. Custer owned a pair which after his little boo boo were never found. This is a story that I have read several times. If they were picked up and taken to Canada ammo was more avable and the revolvers them selves would never get a second look. I know I am late to this show. Don't know how I missed it. As usual a great video.
28:45 Interesting to see New South Wales stamped on that one - I never realised the Aussie cops used Webleys back in the day. I had an ancestor who was a copper in the mid 1900s in Australia - an Irishman named Andrew Cleary (Sgt) who captured the bushranger known as Captain Starlight (amongst other aliases.) I'll have to see what info I can find, but I'd guess this is probably the same - or very similar - sort of weapon to the sidearm he would have carried...or at least, it's about the right time period and right location.
@@crunchytheclown9694 Dunno about the caliber, but I'd be surprised if it was anything unusual. Australia didn't have much in the way of industry back then, so it's not like they could manufacture their own ammo easily or cheaply...but waiting on custom ammo to be shipped from overseas would seem a bit awkward, too. I'll see what I can find out about his sidearm, but details like that tend to be hard to find - if that info has survived at all - so it's likely to take me a fair bit of digging around.
Cheers, mate. :-)
Do you mean 19th century? anything in British service would have been used in Australia as Australia was very much still a colony populated by subjects and recent migrants rather than citizens. Breaker Morant for instance was English, among other things that made up his "fake it until you make it" life. Don't fall into that trap that the Yanks do where they can't reconcile the fact that we were once one and the same. My grandfather (a Londoner by birth) for instance is listed as "Australian" on his wedding certificate because he had been living there for a few years after the war - back then we could come and go freely between our two countries.
Mae could have used a grip adapter for the finger placement problems. I used to see Tranter revolvers at gun shows back in the 1970s. Very nice exposé on the old British revolvers.
Something about that bulldog 83 makes me think "Victorian S&W 640".
And seeing that face at 33:38, I instantly knew we'd found Mae's Top Revolver for The Great War. XD
Mae keeps looking for a rapid reload because she knows what the future brings. Compared to the percussion revolvers this replaced and the even older single shot pistols this was a rapid reload. As a police and/or pocket gun it wasn’t likely you were going to need more than 5/6 rounds quickly but if you thought you might you carried another revolver (NY reload). Love the channel!
24:45 I love Mae's magic color changing shirt.
PBS and C&Rsenal are both on my watch list! PBS produces some great stuff.
I had a meeting Tues morning that I actually had to be awake all the way through, but not to worry. I'm watching this wonderful episode suitably late Tues night into Wed.
Needs. Moar. Constabulling!
I've seen some of those .577 revolvers in a private collection. I hope you can get one to test someday.
Thank you! I didn't know what the constables of the constabulary did back in the days. Now I'm aware they used the bang sticks to constabulize. :D the more you know!
little side note the fenian raids where part of the motivation for the British North American colonies to become one nation . They joined up under Canada .
"I'm fairly sure that the producers at PBS are not on the same watch lists as I am."
These days I think there are a lot of people on the watch lists...
37:48 hahaha look at the mustache on that guy! Sad thing is he probably tipped his barber extra like "yep mm hmmm yessir that'll do nicely"
Ooh, the Bulldog is a great example of too much bullet for too little gun. Still want one though, just to make other people shoot it.
Surprising piece of Canadian history i'd NEVER learned about in this episode.
Hi, I have one with 3 1/2 " barrel length in .45 acp. Great video, regards!
Well you are in my watchlist at the very least.
Glad to hear some Irish history on this one. Great video guys.
The timing of the shooting lyric in the shooting segment
Awesome
Congrats on your beard Mathias
Thanks
Like the manufacturing history
The funny part for me, 25:39 and 34:44 respectively, no hits in the D-ring with three in the A-ring on the gun she despised, and only two totally within the A-ring (no line touch) and one D-ring with the gun she adored. Short barrel, wonky uncomfortable grip, broken ergonomics, and shoots it arguably better. If we score A=10, C=5, D=1, and count line touches toward the higher score, the gun she loved scored higher, 46-40...but if we're just looking at Minute-Of-Man grouping, Little Grumpy Thunder put more into a centralized grouping. Seemed like the longer barrel and higher capacity wasn't providing that much in exchange for the bulk even though it'd be more comfortable for a ten-boxes-of-ammo range day.
BTW, I think the reasons many militaries were hesitant to dispense with single-action gate loaders and such was primarily psychological. If you know it's really easy and fast to reload and you can shoot it real quick, you get into a "well, I'll hit something eventually if I send enough" mentality. I don't have to make these rounds count, it's sooo easy to just reload and do more if I miss. You can start thinking in terms of cylinderfuls instead of individual shots. With a single-action gate loader, you go into it knowing you're fully loaded, but the next reload isn't free and easy and fast, you're going to be there like a goober reloading it for a minute, so maybe you'll actually try to hit something with the rounds in the gun? I see it in teaching shooters quite commonly. Start them off with a Ruger Bearcat and fairly readily they'll work down to a bean can sized group at five or seven yards. Hand them a Ruger Buckmark and once they start to experience the ability to fire quicker without need for pause, that group starts to open up. If you don't correct them early they'll be lucky to keep shots on a pie pan at seven after twenty minutes of practice getting worse with each mag, not better. With an army of soldiers who may have very little firearm experience, you give them a gun that's really easy to shoot for speed rather than accuracy even without the heat of battle, and then put them in the stress of battle, you'll have to send 120,000 rounds to generate one fatality. (Numbers I've read on the Afghanistan/Iraq conflict were in the neighborhood of a quarter million rounds per insurgent killed. I have to wonder if this "I've got rounds and the gun can run fast, who cares, you'll hit somethin' eventually" mentality is the reason. If you're running a Mosin and a Single-Action gate load revolver and it's taking that many shots per enemy combatant...take the weapons away from them and send them to a job like motorpool or something, and make sure they take their seeing-eye-dog with 'em when they go.)
Might be reading a little much into a rather small data set
The latest research shows that the Webley revolvers first sold to the RIC were nothing like either of the two shown here. They were quite basic with ratchet cylinders, a toggle type cylinder pin release and no extractor whatsoever, even screwed into the butt. They were actually much closer to the slightly later RIC No.3 revolvers. There exists a recently discovered circular from Dublin Castle dated Feb 1868 which gives instructions to police on the care and use of these revolvers. It describes the unloading process as "This can be effected by a pencil, small piece of wood, or such like thing; but if none of these are at hand, the axle upon which the pistol revolves may be removed and used as a forcing rod". Clearly, there was no extractor fitted.
Alright, my insomnia paid off!
Thank you kind people’s
Woooh! Webley's!
As a proud Irish man born and bred, I show hate that thing.
But honestly having handled one myself, I gotta say they are a cool piece of history.
Did somebody say boost engagement?
Nice facial expressions on Mae when firing the 455
If this revolver were any more British, it would somehow declare after each shot "good show!" when you hit something or a somewhat appalled "I say!" when you miss
Sherlock Holmes partner in Detection, Dr Watsons daily carry.
Check out the movie "The Outlaw Ben Hall". It's about an Australian bushranger and he carried a brace (2) or 3 Tranter percussion revolvers throughout the movie, as well as utilizing a very rare Tranter carbine. They actually used real Tranters in the movie, but used horrible non-firing pot metal "Colt" reproductions as well. Ben mentions that the Tranters are superior to the Colt in reliable, fit, and finish, being hand made and fitted.
Holy crap. I had one of these
There is another 6" RIC with a spring loaded extractor that sits in position behind the gate.
It looks like you would only be able to rotate the cylinder with the hammer down when there is no brass inside, the bases stick out into that gap because there aren't any relief cuts for the rims.
Holy shit a New South Wales Webley revolver, how rare is that!!!
Webley Senior air pistols are worth a punt.
Bust your fingers re-cocking if you're a butterfingers, but they're a nice vintage novelty. =]
love you mae ; )
Before something happens, a good Crozier and Lewis wistle-spud T-shirt, please!!