Why Do People Love the MoFi SourcePoint 8?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2023
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When you give off the wall Measurements are you measuring from the Back of the Speaker or the Front?? Enjoy your channel
@@robertmacdonald345 in this case it’s the back of the speaker. Thanks for asking since I didn’t clarify.
@@ErinsAudioCorner No worries I take audio with a grain of salt from others, Just like the term Audiophile, People like using that word But I doubt every person that likes Audio is an Audiophile. Could I ask you a couple other questions Via Email? Cheers
delete this. dont give these MOFI con men any more money.
I heard the sourcepoint 10 and I was really disappointed. They do not play musical and really need power and loudness to sound good. Very disappointing. Not much better than my old DALIs I bought used for 300usd.
Props to MoFi for sending these in. More manufacturers should be open to doing this.
screw those scumbags for ripping off their customers.
marketing dept directors would hate even the thought of this. #measurementsmatter
@ceylonmooney
LOL, start your own speaker company and learn first-hand exactly how much it costs just to break even and keep the doors open!
There are a MULTITUDE of real, incurred operating costs and overhead that you clearly have no clue about and are completely dismissing.
This is why DIY speaker building seems like (and is) much less expensive for an equivalent speaker design.
But think about the working space and all of the tools, materials, and expendables/supplies that are required just for you to build that ONE PAIR of speakers.
pay attention. again, i point out that MOFI is charging made in USA prices for made in china products. learn to read, @bbfoto7248 .
unsolicited advice is the cry of the ignorant begging for attention. its not funny "LOL."
Erin what would you pick for yourself between this and R3 Meta?
From the video, I bet Erin would pick sourcepoint 8 as better bass extension and appearance 😂
@@giangpham6348 appearance? You're drunk
@@joelopez7459 Erin stated that he preferred the look of Mofi 8 to Kef coaxial design in the video. I personally prefer kef look. And the original question is about Erin preference man.
Great review format,you keep upping your game and it shows. Thanks for your take on this AJ designed speaker.
I appreciate that!
Would be cool to try to get Andrew Jones for an interview to discuss these speakers.
Would be interesting to get some commentary around aspects of the measurements and some of the design decisions/tradeoffs he had to make. Also whether he adjusted the high frequencies for this model vs the 10.
Helpful review. Great job. Thanks, Erin.
First time I watch you review, you checked all the boxes. 👍
Thank you Erin
Actually quite impressed, way different than I was expecting.
I heard them in a store a couple of weeks back and I was really wowed by their sound! They like it a bit louder to perform than say B&W but they really can sing! Btw, nice beard trim you've got going!
Let's goooo! I've heard them before. They sound good (I have kefs myself)
Looks like a great mastering reference. I mean really great.
Great finding about modulation distortion.
Glad you like it!
awesome, thank you!
extremely insightful - thank you!
Thanks Erin,, 👍😎👍
Cheers and Happy Holidays,, ❄🎄☃🎅☃🎄❄
You are so welcome!
@@ErinsAudioCorner 💖
I really appreciate your reviews. What would make them much more useful would be if you would insert chapter bookmarks. I know some TH-camrs avoid them because they think everyone will just skip to the summary, but it really is more useful for someone who's not inclined to watch the review, but will go to the sections they are wanting to watch.
I like the look of these, and the cone material and accordion surrounds, these are done pretty well. I do think id prefer the 10s though with that +5 db at 30 hz, thats the right territory to be in for me, for a large bookshelf thats plenty good.
Brilliant speaker ...
Erin, we may disagree on certain speakers but I love your reviews and trust your judgement. Question for you, do you think the future of speakers will be using built-in "smart" DSP active-integrated crossovers to allow for software adjustments, or do you think we will continue to see traditional "dumb" (for lack of a better term) passive crossovers?
¡Gracias!
Good review as usual Erin. I bought the Kef R3 after you had a very good review 3 years ago. I love the Kef R3 for its tone and treble. And also has a bass that is acceptable for me but sometimes I think I need more of that low end.
I am thinking of upgrading to this source point 8. I play more jazz, Acoustic guitars, folk, female and male vocals. The question is would this speaker be a good upgrade for me? TIA.
hey @ErinsAudioCorner just curious what amp did you use for testing these. (i just realized you mentioned the amps in the video - palm to head!)
i heard them at stereonet and they sounded bright, wondering if the amp pairing is playing a part in the brightness?
they where using a Macintosh Amp at the show.
👍🏼 perfectly balanced review and discussion. As some one said, a couple of short interviews on previously looked at speakers would be great. Designer, general driver engineer or QA people all have some stories to tell 😊
So keep it up Erin! If you would add some other regional Amazon links, I'd be the first one to use ones for Germany or Sweden
Dreaming an entire 9.4 setup with 9 of these!
When you say 2 feet from the wall are you referring to the front of the speaker cabinet or back of the cabinet? Thanks!
Back. Back of speaker 2 feet from wall.
Well that's actually surprisingly good. 3000€ is still not cheap, but it's a good effort that I'm sure will find its buyers, and rightfully so.
What is your thought for Sourcepoint 8 vs Wharfedale linton 85? 😅
Just wanted to tell you I heard these at the Oslo hifi show yesterday and again today. They are straight up great speakers, no BS attention grabbing anything, just plain out of the way of the music neutral. If they are within your budget, I'd say it's a very bad idea to buy anything before hearing them.
Cough, cough. No mames, but they easily outperformed another pair of speakers priced at a "modest" US$ 600.000.
Great review like always!
But I've got one small question about aiming the Speaker.
You said that on axis is when it's aimed directly in your face, but I've always thought it's on axis when it's aimed at your Ear.
Which one is the right one?
That’s pretty much the same. So for practicality I’d say they’re the same.
Agreed
On axis, ... in that instance, would be equal distance to each ear (no difference signal).
Why does the horizontal dispersion change so much on tilted axis compared to the 10 ? The 10 seems to stay consistent on both vertical and horizontal, but especially the horizontal ?
They're downsides are low sensitivity and big size and don't get to deep. I guess its amazing speaker to pair with subwoofer for stereo system not necessarily home theatre. Would enjoy them more in 3 way with woofers below.
What is your reference gear? It would be useful if you disclosed all the components utilized in the review.
Great review as always! Thank you!
From where on the speaker do you measure the distance to the wall, from the back of the speaker or from the front baffle? Thanks!
Back of speaker to the wall. 👍
Thanks!
thanks!
Hi Eric, I'm looking for an upgrade on my home theater system, please suggest me a good speaker system (looking for MTM design on LCR but u can suggest me anything best on your perception). I'm using pioneer Andrew jones sp series currently.
As soon as I heard the MJ impersonation, I paused the vid and smashed that LIKE button, LOL.
😂😂😂
Thumbs up for that Michael Jackson impression attempt!! 😂😂 I find myself really enjoying concentric designs due to imaging and overall sound coherence! Right now I have a 7.2.4 with all Base Layer speakers being the Kali IN8 V2, with their performance, it’s hard to find a speaker that is better for even CLOSE to their price!! I can easily hit deafening SPL levels with very little effort!
Thanks. I’d been practicing that impression the last 40 years or so. 😂
@ErinsAudioCorner needs another 40? As long as everyone enjoys! Happy Holidays, everyone! 😅
@@L8KY how dare you!!! 😂😂
I was wondering how the 0.10s compare to the Aredal THX 1723 small tower or definitely the bigger brother compare? have you had both in ? My money is on the Aredel am I right or am I right lol
Music Mofi no question. Movies arendal . I've owned both at the same time. hope this helps.
Do you really like the looks of these over the KEF RF3 Meta, especially that Indigo blue model. Outside of that how do you think it compares to the R3 Metas?
Personally, I do. I like that throwback retro look. It’s purely subjective. The KEF look really nice as well.
@@ErinsAudioCorner How do you think they compare when it comes to sound?
How far away should the Sourcepoint 8 be from the side walls? Would 50 cm be enough?
Thanks for the review!
Hi there! I have a quick question: I'm considering buying some speakers with a concentric design for a surround setup (I was looking at the kali In-8 v2). You often recommend tow out on this kind of speakers. If I go with a coaxial speaker, how would you recommend I should aim the center channel?
With the center you really may not have much of a choice. However, I’d say find a design that works well on-axis (KEF Meta do pretty well). Otherwise, most are good by about 10 degrees. So maybe if you have a setup where you have a 2-seater couch that is centered at the center channel then you’d be sitting off-axis just enough that it should resolve any diffraction issues from the symmetry of the on-axis performance.
Something like the KEF R2C or R6 Meta would be pretty awesome if they’re in your budget:
howl.me/cle6yuvTE0s
^ Crutchfield affiliate link if you decide to purchase there. Otherwise just google R6 Meta.
Thank you🥰@@ErinsAudioCorner
Explore aiming them higher ...
I've explored a great deal with my coax LCRs ... those diffractive dips aren't as easy to hear as one would think.
@@FOH3663that’s a good point! If one is sitting above these then that also helps lower diffraction.
Great in depth review. It would be great if you could show the frequency response with the ports plugged. Helpful when adding a subwoofer.
These don’t come with bungs to plug them. But otherwise, I didn’t even think about it.
bung
@@FOH3663
Big Ugly Noise Grabbers ... 😉😉
@@ErinsAudioCorner measurements with a sock 🧦 stuffed port would be a nice bonus.
You really nailed this review..great info & opinions. This speaker is very workable in my opinion. Was not expecting the linearity in this one and for my taste and setup this would be the easy pick over the 10. I'd still add a little PEQ as I prefer a little high frequency roll off over sparkle & extension. I do love the look of it as well. I saw the 10's at the Tampa show and dug the looks. Outstanding review!!
Thanks!
I had played both Michael Jackson tracks, and my soundstage was definitely flatter than what was described. Imaging was good and about the same. I think MoFi, Elac and KEF probably excel in soundstage depth compared to other box speakers, because of their concentric drivers. I think Tannoy and Fyne, use them too. I had experienced poor soundstage depth with every electrostatic and planar driver I had. None of them were at the same level as box speakers.
Not the most linear ive seen, but its very much commendably so hobestly. Directivity looks pretty good too, so does distortion. MoFi seems to really know what theyre doing, although the addition of Andrew likely helped them big time haha. Would be interested in seeing MoFi attempt a 3 way design, and I bet you would to ;)
Two things i wanna mention, this speaker goes lower than I thought it would, so thats interesting, also, both don't look like they have that steep of a tilt, so they may be brighter than average in room
Looks more linear than 95% of the speaker measurements I've seen. Even the most linear speakers, no matter how close to neutral can still sound disappointing in any number of ways. Depends on more than perfect measurements but measurements are a good place to start.
@@nc3419 Yeah I'm aware, linearity on axis is far from everything that decides a good speaker. It's why I mentioned it's main other attributes, such as Directivity and distortion, which are all also very well done imo. The only thing that could be problematic is the 2nd Harmonic Distortion around the midbass, but as Erin mentioned, it's at a point where we aren't exactly sure if audibility is going to be that big
How/why would it be that much better/different than the original SP 10?
Completely different high frequency. 10” is raised about 3dB while the 8” is more linear.
The 8 is probably better because an 8 inch mid/woofer will reach and blend with the speaker’s crossover frequency with less distortion than a 10 inch driver. Better two ways use smaller mids. The wavelength’s need to fit the driver’s size better. The great old LS35A’s used a doped midrange for a woofer.
I am sure you didn't like the lower end and that is because of the woofer rigid suspension that I bet they choose it to last longer and that's maybe because of it's difficulty to take out the woofer/tweeter and change the ring suspension
I'm between this and the arendal 1723 thx. I would love a comparison between the two.
Music Mofi no question. Movies arendal . I've owned both at the same time. hope this helps.
What would you guys chose between these MoFi 8 and KEF LS50 Meta?
This question was asked earlier so I’ll copy/paste myself here.
Personally, I would get the MoFi 8 without question. For one it seems to do better with dynamics, but also it doesn’t have that dip in the upper presence region that the LS 50 has. Unless, of course, you like that. Subjectively speaking, I prefer a more neutral speaker through that region. Having these back to back, I just prefer the MoFi 8. But it is 2 to 3 times the price so it’s not quite an apple, apples comparison. And preferences matter.
As a cheap plug, if you do wind up getting the MoFi, please consider using my affiliate link. It would definitely help me out but won’t cost you anything extra. But if you don’t feel comfortable with affiliate links or you think it’s shilling, then I understand.
howl.me/cleSP9AdFom
@@ErinsAudioCorner
Thank you for your response and sorry for not being able to see the response you gave to the question in the previous messages.
Here in my country, the difference is bellow 2 times.
I am taking into consideration that too. It is hard. :D
Great review as always, Erin!
Seems like very good engineering, which I understand is especially difficult with co-centric designs.
Unfortunately I think they are hideous, especially with the grille off.
Yes they do look hideous, I just posted a comment how these look like they belong in a nightclub and they have no visual appeal.
@@angelotig for your aesthetically challenged self maybe
Here's an off-the-wall question, how well would these speakers perform for Home Theater duty?
Just fine.
I agree that pointing them straight ahead causes the speakers to lack detail. Not good. Given your definition of "toe-out" - that is, pointing them at your shoulders instead of at your head - makes them sound very neutral. They are "forgiving" (musical?), but maybe that's how the best speakers should be. Great review.
I like 8's,@ 70hz up to 700hz open baffle duo2's ,ribbon tweeters and duodayton18s 70hz down. I now have stunning Soundstage and concert or live theater level,scary real. I? The value of so called hi fi cream de la cream..lol
i like this speaker, looks great, if i had a large room that i could put it in. if it only was sealed box it would be perfect, i would put a 180 hz high pass on them anyways so ports is wasted on me.
180 seems super high. Where are your sub(s) placed?
@@Nick_2i stereo subwoofers placed sidewalls near speakers, and time aligned with dsp.
Any one else wonder what Andrew Jones’s has been working on? TH-cam needs some new Andrew content. It’s been a minute! Were you at Andrew?😃
Hopefully he’s working on a floor standing version. 😎😂
@@ErinsAudioCorner that would be fantastic!
Erin, would these make your list of "favorite speakers under $2,500? "
Yes. They would.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Cool. Maybe next year you can do an updated list to include some speakers you’ve reviewed since then. Love your channel.
These were one the of most popular speakers as Axpona 2023.
Linton or Sourcepoint 8? You can only keep one.
Hey now that you’ve done these, you should look at the budget big concentric driver speakers. The HSU Research CCB-8 are under 400$ each, and are lauded for their incredible detail and very good bass extension. They build them in Anaheim Ca if I’m not mistaken. I’ve been meaning to drive up to their showroom one of these days. I like the idea of using them as my center channel(sideways) and surrounds when I upgrade to 5.1 in my living room.
I’ve considered ordering them. But I’m hoping that someone will loan me a pair of theirs so I can avoid having to do that.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Knowing that they’re on your radar is good enough for me! I’d love to see the Klippel data on them. I can’t even imagine how expensive it is to do what you do on TH-cam.
@@ErinsAudioCornerHSU wasn't able to send you a set to review? I have their HB bookshelf speakers, currently.
Hi Erin, Mofi has same F3 with Whalfdale Linton. However, in Linton video, you said that Linton bass extension is good enough for music listening while in this video, you didn't mention that and said straight away that you would use sub. In my opinion, it's a bit not fair for Mofi lol. As a Linton owner, I am sure that Mofi bass extension is good for music listening. And please consider my comment as a positive feedback. Your audience watched your videos carefully lol and this is exactly why data is very very useful. Same person, same F3, different subjective thought 😁😁
You have to look at the slope because one number doesn't tell you how rapidly the response is falling. That's why I provide F10 in addition to F3.
MoFi F10 = 43Hz
Linton F10 = 35Hz
@@ErinsAudioCorner Ah I see. Thank you for your explanation. Data is so useful 👌 👍
These vs r3 metas? I'm guessing these are a little bit better for high output. If I remember correctly, the r3s have some bass shelving too
Hmmm. That’s not easy. Let me chew on it.
@@ErinsAudioCorner also interested to know 😀
Try towing them up a bit like many hifi speakers are these days (and are built that way). Personally I am a bit iffy about towing out.?. 😅 Never heard of that but I have seen a lot of towed up speakers. Just saying. 😅
Thanks for the review Erin, you are superb person!. It looks that for the price difference between SP 8 and SP 10 someone can buy a decent subwoofer or two, ending with much superior speaker system. I'm out of budget for any of these speakers, but just to let you know...
hi Erin, i will agree that ON AXIS means the speaker is pointed dead at you. that is actually toed IN. anytining other than aimed straight ahead that points toward you is toed in. toed out is then anything pointing away from you deviating from straight ahead. i always listen first with the speakers straight ahead and then vary from there. planar drivers like electrostatics with their flat drivers can be almost line a pencil beam and REQUIRE being aimed directly at the listener. even the curved panels of Martin Logans.
conversationally, when the speaker is already aimed at you and you want to either improve imaging or reduce the intensity of the highs a little, then you might say "toe that out a little" for instance. i know this is picking nits but after doing this for many decades at home, in hifi stores, or at hifi shows, that is how it has always been expressed.
Re intermodulation distortion: I think you need to cut the signal much higher. Given that the ported F3 is 54Hz, I think it likely that the bass cone excursion is peaking not far below that, so there is still a lot of movement. I think you should cut at 200Hz or higher to see whether the effect is seen.
Sure. I could cut it at 500Hz. But there’s no point when 80Hz shows little/no difference.
@@ErinsAudioCornerI am disagreeing with you. The cut at 80Hz may be primarily affecting a range where the driver itself moves much less, and the frequencies are primarily being driven by the ports. I agree that an oft-heard theory of IM distortion in coax suggests that waveguide movement drives distortion and is Bad. I think its a good experiment. OTOH, the total sound energy emitted into the wave guide by the tweeter is the same, and there's a lot of reflection going on, and comb effect like interactions.
that’s fine. But IMHO buying these and then HP them at 200Hz is impractical. So no need for such a test.
that’s fine. But IMHO buying these and then HP them at 200Hz is impractical. So no need for such a test.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Surely the experiment is to see if that 'we all know' is right - not to know if it makes a huge difference to these? To me its interesting because I do have some coax drivers on the shelf, and I'm thinking that the coax Satori looks quite interesting. mind you, if you have two subs and they are linear out to 5--Hz, then it might be interesting to try them as mids upwards as 3-ways. After all the distortion on those drivers is rising below 200Hz anyway.
great vid. not sure i saw any testing for resonant frequencies? lots of plastic via front baffle could mean some resonance i figure...
MoFi said they need to be not aimed at you but pointed perfectly straight. Andrew Robinson said that they can be very bright when pointed on-axis. That most likely means they are not for me.
The eights are very different from the tens. The tens are very bright, especially when pointed directly at you. The 8’s are about 3DB less and the high frequency when pointed at you.
@@ErinsAudioCorner That's why I was so surprised that Andrew said the Sourcepoint 8 can be "very bright" when on-axis.
Just saw that Andrew Jones himself in his studio/listening room does aim the Sourcepoint 8 straight into the room and not toed in towards the listener.
@@cremersalex there are reasons for doing that other than HF. As I mention in this video, coaxial designs often are best served by being placed off axis (10-20 degrees usually) due to the diffraction of the tweeter to the housing, surround if the mid or the cabinet edge.
But I’ve talked to Andrew about the tonality of the two designs being different. The 8 is definitely voiced to be less intensive than the 10 (no pun intended 😂).
@@ErinsAudioCorner During your listening tests, did the HF of the sourcepoint 8 sometimes (with certain recordings) sound a bit harsh to you? I know it sometimes did with the Aura 2.
Dear Erin.
I Love your objective work and will remember to point to your videos, whenever you touch on a speaker I review too. Its really fun to see how your objective findings most times correlate with our subjective ones 🙂 One thing that bugs me though, is your humility towards vendors.
The work you do here, they should pay you for! AND... if they (hopefully!) are the type of company that strive to get better all the time, - they should pay you AND thank you, even when you conclude they did a shit speaker, - using all that feedback to build a BETTER one.
The HIFI business IMO, often end up building mediocre products, because there is not enough honest reviews. Help me change that, by knowing your worth when you conduct this kind of very BALANCED and FAIR reporting with the integrity you stand for.
Consider yourself a "focus group provider", and get a listening team going, helping speaker manufacturers creating appealing, great speakers. Thats a WIN-WIN for everybody. Just an idea! Kind Regards from a fan @stjernholmreviews
+1 .. Sure,, looks to be a Tannoy System 10, one of the great control monitors from the '80s & '90s. "Big Reds much?
But without the issues tannoy had with reflections and comb filtering in the tweeter
Chris, did they ultimately address those issues, or were these simply inherent with that geometry/platform?
@@FOH3663 they were inherently in the design. They are still present in the Fyne designs (former tannoy engineers) too
@@cbrunhaver
Got it.
Curious, any thoughts or exploration of potential challenges with the AT weave "dust cap" of designs like the Tannoy?
I'm specifically interested in that "dust cap" covering the CD throat/waveguide exit in B&C's pro 8" offerings.
I've owned and used them for ~10yrs or so in my Seaton Cat12c monitors.
I've contemplated what penalty is involved with that material, especially since it's ~2.5" or so from the diaphragm (I've got the driver here in my lap).
Thank you
Much appreciated
@@FOH3663 these AT dustcaps aren’t the issue. It’s the horn flare discontinuity from pole piece to cone.
B&C does a little better in this regard with a shallower shared motor between the units and smoother transition, but the mofi uni-q type design (with a tweeter on top of the pole instead of a compression driver firing through the pole) can measures a lot better overall for a home audio application.
👍💯👍
I would love to see you do a review of the Zu audio dwx stand mounts. Half the price and made in USA
ZU would never send a pair. It’s not a measurement speaker
@seanb3303 that is strange 🤔 and would definitely effect my decision to buy. I reached out to a local group here in Nashville that a member has. I know Erin sometimes rolls through maybe we can make it happen
@@michaelteague1371 not sure what is strange. Zu is famous for making speakers that aren’t concerned with the measured response
@@michaelteague1371I would love to see it, but I can't imagine they would send one to him. I also doubt there is much of an overlap between Zu owners and Erin viewers, so it doesn't seem likely that someone would lend him their personal pair.
Why do coaxial designs have a diffraction dip if the waveguide is there?
It depends. Usually it’s diffraction from the tweeter housing to the midrange. If there’s a small gap there to let the midrange cone move then that can create it. Then if there is any offset of the midrange (forward or behind the tweeter housing termination to the midrange) that’s another abrupt edge that can create diffraction.
@@ErinsAudioCorner
Probably doesn't help that the waveguide itself is moving.
It's the equidistant edge of the cone that's the issue.
If the dome tweeter is waveguide loaded by the cone, ... then the cone surround is the terminus of that waveguide.
It's also symmetrically equidistant, which is the problem ... it's all in phase.
The energy propagating outward from the dome reaches the edge of the driver and the area opens up becoming less constrained.
This change in spatial loading, creates a ripple backward in addition to propagating outward.
That discontinuity wave, introduces comb filtering effects.
Thus, manifesting into peaks/dips.
-------
Whereas a dome tweeter on a typical loudspeaker baffle generates the same effects ... but those effects aren't equidistant, thus they don't add with coherence.
Worst case scenario is a source dead center in a round baffle, ie., the diffractive element is in phase in every direction.
It's why we offset MF/HF drivers on baffles ... spread the freq and magnitude of these discontinuities around a bit.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 thats a good point. Can this distortion from the movement be heard or measured?
@@FOH3663 but a coaxial design is a worst case scenario then because the baffle is effectively a circle
What is 1 feet? People got diferent feet dimensions, cm in Europe is all the same? Just asking, i dont unerstand.
Different 1 feet? 12 inches = 1 foot. ~30cm.
thank you@@ErinsAudioCorner
Music video sound testing? o_o
Bout 30 years ago Golden Ear old dude audiophiles who couldnt hear treble decided treble was bad. We're still dealing with their legacy.
🤣🤣🤣Please guide us.
you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and if you're trying to be funny, you're not a very good comedian.
I am using the Coaxial JBL SC8. At only 1,000 per pair. They sound more realistic then the Mofi.
Oof. I’ve heard both. I’m gonna disagree with you there.
I must have a crappy system. I did not hear the "shaker" on PYT, nor did I hear the "bomb" on Beat It. Am I the only one?
I have heard the 10s and it was not bright at all, most probably it was it a heavily draped room with thick curtains covering every inch of the walls. Rooms like these really tame the highs, which is the problem the 10 has. I think in a packed and fully furnished room, the 10 would work better than the more neutral 8.
Yo E Dizzle have a good holiday.. 😊
😎😂
My wife says you look like Mike from 90 day fiance... She's usually out of pocket. 😂
I’m shook! 😂
@@ErinsAudioCorner I about cried laughing when she told me that.
Speakers that are detailed *_and_* bright, then there is something wrong, maybe with the speaker or elsewhere. Detailed and bright are, or should be, not the same. If they are, then not for me. It is possible to design, for a price, incredibly detailed speakers that are not bright. That to me is a correct speaker! I have artificial brightness, but I love musical detail, in the right sense of the word, real instruments that sound real.
@D800Lover
I think the point Erin was trying to make is that the majority of other subjective reviewers do not always make a clear distinction between the terms "detailed" and "bright" in their reviews.
Unless the reviewer makes that specific distinction between "detailed" and "bright", if they only say that the speaker is "very detailed and airy," you can usually surmise that the speaker under review has an inherent upper midrange boost and/or rising response through the treble that equates to the "detailed" sound, and that may or may not result in an accurate, natural, and lifelike in-room sound.
As a musician, like you, foregoing the measurements, I subjectively try to describe the Spectral Balance, Timbre, or Tonality of the speaker in terms of if a particular acoustic instrument sounds "natural", "real", and "lifelike".
This means that the speakers exhibit plenty of "detail" throughout the frequency spectrum, but their sound remains accurate and is not unnaturally "bright."
Every year or two there's always some bandwagon every one is on
These speakers resemble speakers that you see in a night club, you’ll get tired of the aesthetics soon.
Not me.
Man, Erin. What the hell was that Michael Jackson thing.
It was the shit 👍
What!? Come on! That was “musical”. 😂
Just... Beat it! 🤣🤣
Don’t Stop 'Til You Get Enough
I don't care about the elevated highs of the 10 I would simply EQ it with a high quality DSP parametric EQ. That's why I love your directionality measurements and how you discuss "EQ-ability", because as long as there are no fundamental issues with the speaker that do not lend themselves to genuine EQ correction, then I literally don't care about the out of the box FR curve AT ALL (within reason). I would NEVER in a million years not EQ a speaker, even a super awesome speaker, because (if I'm running 2ch stereo no sub) I like a bass boost, and maybe some high high last octave stuff, the "air" as they call it. So why would I care if I have to throw one or two or five more PEQ bands in there if the end result is quality?
Given the power of access to infinite parametric bands I have on my computer, my ONLY source now and forever, I do not give two F's about the frequency response. I care about everything else BESIDES that primarily, except for when FR is demonstrating some other fundamental problem or cause, and not just x-over tuning / box tuning / driver characteristics.
I would really like you to try this some day: Take two very different speakers, with close to the same radiation width, and then digitally EQ them to measure as identically as possible. Now, at this point, the REAL reviews begin. What differences remain? Given that I could EQ either speaker, the ONLY thing I care about is which one sounds better even if they're EQ'd to produce nearly the exact same FR. If they have nearly identical radiation widths the test is even better, because it seems like in your mind these two things almost entirely define the speaker, whereas I disagree (but not in the typical stupid audiophile way). This also happens to be where subjectivist terms come into play though, and qualities that genuinely cannot quite currently be measured, or at least understood and interpreted, certainly not easily and not with the spin-o-rama. You'd have to record played back music and somehow analyze that. Besides the subjective or qualitative differences between the speakers that you would describe at that point, my ONLY other (equal) concern is dynamic range / output capability, particularly in the bass. My DIY speakers for example, due to the sensitivity mismatch and driver and box tuning, require +18db centered at 30hz and extending up to the mid 100s, because they use high sensitivity 15" pro woofers that aren't exactly made to do that, but which absolutely CAN do that if you make them. They have the power handling and excursion capabilities for the volume levels I seek, but require extreme EQ, at least with the crossover design currently implemented. But what do I care, I eq them... if I measured them out of the box like you I'd say they're unusable, but that simply isn't the case, they sound great after EQ (and they need more EQ than just the bass boost, in other areas). I only care about the POST EQ performance capabilities of any speaker, period. How good can it sound at it's best?
Personally it is my preference to avoid subs, but have massive speakers that can hit 20-30hz. It simplifies things and is aesthetically pleasing, and as far as even bass reproduction in room, it's equivalent to having 2 subs, if your mains can put out bass like subs (small subs at least). Less money too, less amplification, less wires, less "furniture", higher WAF, easier room design, and no speaker stands necessary, because any real speaker should be at least 4 feet tall if not 5 feet tall. Even if I was doing a fancy 3 or 4 way build with big 15 or 18" subs built in, like real subs, I would just build them into the mains and give them active amplification driven off the speaker level inputs, so the speakers still function like regular speakers but have 1000w of bass.
Ideal speaker is kind of like the big JBLs you liked... give me a 15" woofer playing to 500-800hz maximum, then a big horn playing from there up, and depending on the horn and compression driver, if it can't reasonably do well over 10-15khz or beams too much, then cut that off and put another horn above it, or even a ribbon or planar tweeter to act as a super tweeter. Nothing beats horns, and nothing beats BIG woofers... and it's not just about bass output, it's about how much volume you can achieve with a FRACTION of the cone movement and thus less distortion. Same with horns... the immediacy and dynamics, and crazy low distortion (assuming a quality horn minimizing inherent horn distortions).
@Artcore103
CRIKEY! That was a WALL O' TEXT!!! Back off, that's usually my M.O.! 😊
Seems like the Troels Gravesen TL1 or TL2 would be just right for you. 😉
Just realize that not everyone has the necessary space to accomodate or dedicate to those types of LARGE loudspeakers, nor the approval from the wifey. 🤪
@@bbfoto7248 lol. Cool I will check those out! Yeah my wife is chill with whatever.
@@bbfoto7248 dude those look awesome, I'll have to check out some discussion and reviews on HiFi forums to see if they're actually good. My ideal speaker theoretically is close to the big Earl Geddes design, or the big JBL design, or big Klipsch design ... Only difference is I'd actually want a horn that can push down near 500hz, and I'd throw 1 or even 2 18"s or 15"s on the bottom, and maybe keep the big woofers under 100-150hz and use a 12" or 10" for that upper bass low mid region.
arendal 1723 towers still bang for buck.
With such a latge enclosure and large woofer you'd expect these to dig deeper than about 50hz. Not everyone likes or wants a sub. I appreciate the 8ohm impedance but unfortunately im not sticking such a large speaker in my room if it doesnt have more bass than his original $300 Debut with a 6.5" woofer. Was hoping for a "monkey coffin" that was fun but polished. We got the polished but not the fun. Reviewers however would endlessly chastize a bump in bass so thanks for that?
@wymotome
I think Erin somewhat or inadvertantly touched on this in his segment regarding the IMD potential of using concentric drivers.
When you have any type of cone-based driver acting as the "waveguide" for a concentric HF/tweeter, you generally want to limit the +/- excursion and movement of that cone because the movement actively changes the properties of the waveguide and can modulate the high frequencies.
So, I believe that Andrew Jones was probably paying at least some attention to those potential IMD effects on the HF and decided that the better compromise was less LF extension rather than compromise the clarity and the special imaging properites that were gained by using the concentric drivers.
The idea of using the larger 10" mid/low frequency driver in the SourcePoint 10 is that you could achieve slightly lower LF extension and increased SPL with no increase in +/- excursion or HF IMD due to the increased cone area (Sd).
IOW, to produce the same SPL and similar LF extension, a smaller cone has to move exponentially more compared to a larger cone, and that increased cone movement has the potential to further modulate the HF and create worse IMD.
As others have suggested, it would be great to interview Andrew to discuss all of this.
@@bbfoto7248 I don't disagree and AJ did say that he had to limit the woofer excursion (but tried to make the woofer large enough to still produce adequate bass). While I understand the principal, I don't necessarily agree with the execution or end-product. Who wants a speaker this large only to have to also run a subwoofer to dig below 45Hz? What does this speaker provide that a cheaper set of KEF LS 50's + sub does not?
While I appreciate the benefits of a concentric driver large enough to produce ok bass on its own (the KEF LS50 is very light on bass), I would have liked to see a larger version of his Elac UB5. Make the mid/tweeter the concentric and then make a woofer large enough to fill the bottom end properly without needing to worry about excursion issues.
Maybe it's just me, but if I'm making room and justifying a "monkey coffin" to my wife I absolutely do not want to try and integrate and find room for a large subwoofer too. It's honestly a ridiculous ask given the size of the SourcePoint 8 and 10.
@@wymotome so ridiculous the SP8 is EISA stand mount speaker of the year 2023/24
@@Scan_Speak Doesn't matter how many awards the speaker receives...it still does not invalidate what I said. It's a large speaker with not a lot of bass, period. It's ridiculous of you to not see this fact.
@@wymotome the size is because of the dual concentric design. there are tradeoffs. I like the low volume, midfield and great off axis response. SP8s are Musical speakers.
Edit
Sorry.too.much money for a 8" coax driver. 290€ driver. 1500,€ is overprized 😮😮
I like none of the two.I prefer a musical speaker.
made in china...PASS
As you type that nonsense on your Chinese manufactured phone or laptop...yawn
Overrated overpriced overhyped
Actually darn decent spins for an 8". 🤔 👍 Also, WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT VENEER?!?!? 😍🤌