One of the signs of a healthy church is people standing around and within the church building after the service is over - chatting, laughing and sharing. People who like to be together and are really fond of one another, even voluntarily visiting one another.
Hi Pastor Tim. Great message! I'm a saved Pentecostal believer. I've been in a pentecostal "holiness" church for many years. It's also a south-indian church. The structure of the church is nice, but it's a bit legalistic and even narcissistic. My husband is also narcissistic. I stepped away from this church a few times, but I went back cause I thought God wanted me to go back. I'm no longer comfortable their since I haven't always been accused for cutting my hair. The church has always been a bit controlling and Ive actually tried to get some in the congregation to "wake-up" but not everybody wants to. A few "friends" in the church have put me down and tried to make me feel that I'm not a "good enough" believer. I've firmly confronted them about that and also about gossiping about me, including gossiping about me if I tried to get them to understand that the church was not " healthy". I visited a different church recently but it was a "Jesus only" church...I believe in the Trinity so I left that church. I found out about narcissism through watching TH-cam videos, that's how I realized my husband is narcissistic. Unfortunately, I've got too many health issues and I can't survive on my own, so I'm not able to leave my husband yet. With the church ministy also telling it's members not to associate with anyone who leaves the church, and my unhealthy "marriage" I'm very stuck. Please advise me on what you think of my message. I'm sorry for this long msg. Thank you. God bless you.
How about measuring the church by love? Like does your church members treat each other with a brotherly/sisterly love? If there were no worship songs or sermon and the members were just gathering would a non-believer say, "these people are full of love, and this is what I want to be a part of"? Is your church always excited and joyful to be gathering together, even when the awesome songs and sermons stop, and they're just simply praying together, or reading the bible, or singing a song together?
I don't think love alone should be a qualifier. Love, doctrine, evangelism, and holiness of the members I think would be a good way to determine if one is healthy.
Timothy Mayes you can go to a kaballistic meeting full of love. Two key qualities that define God are truth and love. We are far off on both. The UN is promoting the bahai faith ( channelled).. take the best out of all world religions and throw the rest out. Again lots of hugs. satan wants to control both good and evil in this realm. Jesus warned more about false doctrine and decievers than anything else. It is extensive.
My church has summer picnics and they split into two groups. My wife is not a Christian and I took her to church, she didn't find it friendly and found it cliquey. I go because I help out and it's difficult to extricate myself. When I can I go to another Church but lockdown has put a stop to that.
How about measuring the church by there: birth rate, divorce rate, rates of measurement of growth in giving and how may missionaries are sent out, and health of the churches they plant.
Tim, I learn from and enjoy your teaching. But, on the case of building a church around the community: 1- I think that, yes, a financially moderate church does need to reflect the community, however if a church plant is going to be in a wealthy area it should not represent elaboration of wealth but proportions to share our wealth with those other believers in need and for the proclamation of the Gospel. 2- I disagree with the notion that a church had to be primarily one ethnic group of believers. Based on Galatians 3:28 the church is a gathering based on the unity of one in the Holy Sprit. The culture of God’s kingdom should be pre-eminent not the culture of any one specific culture/ethnic group.
My goodness. My Church is not Holy Spirit filled. I haven't been going because the church is literally divided. I'm trying to grow in Christ and I feel like its toxic in there.
@@NotUrAvrg so there are a good amount of them. Go to Google, type in SBC church locator, then click the result that says Church Search. Then type your address in the search box of the site and it will give you theologically sound churches in your area. Try out a few and see what you think! God Bless!
The very fact that you can say "wealthy churches & poor churches and black churches & white churches" SCREAMS that the "big C" Church is quite unhealthy. In scripture they "had ALL things in common" (emphasis added).
Ask them these three questions. What is a belief? How do I have one? How can I be sure that I am right? These are questions we asked our 12 children before they started school.
I'm sorry you went through that :( Try a different church, or look for information online. Ask God to guide you to the answers. Sometimes half the people in some churches, including the pastor, aren't even true Christians, I'm sorry to say. It depends on the church. I understand you, I've encountered some issues myself. Don't give up on God! Where we will spend eternity is the most important thing! It's the end times we are living in, so that's why some churches are like this. If you want, you can write some of your questions here and I will try to answer or direct you to information from reputable Christian sources. God loves you! x
Depends - Try to change it from within, or consider the disconnect as a call somewhere else. As Derek Thomas said in his 2017 G3 conference sermon, The closer your walk with God, the easier the answer will be! God Bless! :)
Dont get me wrong, being part of a healthy church is a good thing, but too many times we focus on what others can do to grow spiritually rather than ourselves. Like if a person is rude to you one Sunday, rather than praying for them or even asking them why we jump to conclusions and decide well they just dont like me or wow they are just selfish. Then we tell others who then may have had a similar encounter with them then we just assume the worst of them. Ask the spirit to work on ourselves first and then maybe through us the others will do the same seeing the results of our lives and if not then continue to improve yourself and just pray for them. Because just as you see their flaws others may see yours.
Can you give a video about politics within church, I am a church member, however I'm a member where I don't like to get involved in other's person life. I'm very private however if I ask for advice then I will want for that person to give me advice. But sometimes they want to know everything where it's not right, sometimes I don't even feel comfortable within other church members, I love God and I want to be stronger. But that's the issue I have. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate any church members of the community but sometimes some people want to know everything. It's kind of annoying. That's why I make sure who am I talking to.
Thanks a lot for putting this together but what about the contain of the teaching and worshio, how the church use the money, if the leaders meet the biblical criteria.. That would indicate a church health as well
that;s not biblical, even if few people in the church are not saved, many others will be, individuals get saved, not the church as an assembly which is a group of saved individuals.
Discernment and true prophets are cursed, not promoted - that's the main sign that the church is unhealthy - Kundalini infested. Emotional hype and soulish approach is valued, and spiritual things are suppressed.
Does your church operate according to the specific instructions of 1 Corinthians 14:26-33 ?????? "So here's what I want you to do. When you gather for worship, each one of you be prepared with something that will be useful for all: Sing a hymn, teach a lesson, tell a story, lead a prayer, provide an insight. If prayers are offered in tongues, two or three's the limit, and then only if someone is present who can interpret what you're saying. Otherwise, keep it between God and yourself. And no more than two or three speakers at a meeting, with the rest of you listening and taking it to heart. Take your turn, no one person taking over. Then each speaker gets a chance to say something special from God, and you all learn from each other. If you choose to speak, you're also responsible for how and when you speak. When we worship the right way, God doesn't stir us up into confusion; he brings us into harmony. This goes for all the churches-no exceptions." (The Message) Or do you sit and watch the professional clergy turn you into a spectator?
I'm making hand gestures because I think it makes what I say seem important....even though said gestures have nothing to do with what I'm saying. Maybe I'm copying John Piper and that Matt guy who's always touching his mouth.🙃
One of the signs of a healthy church is the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Bible, and not compromised to the present or pasthuman world standards and values.
The Word that’s preached MUST BE unadulterated: not corrupted, not partial and not watered down; otherwise it’s best to find a church that does preach the unadulterated Word of God. Remember, it’s our souls that are at stake - eternity in hell is ‘in hell FOR EVER.’
Tim. Go back to school and recalibrate your epistemology. Read everything by TF Torrance. You are exhausting .I think you may have the old OCD. You sound like you are reading from a script. Binding up loads on people's backs and not lifting a finger to help comes to mind.
The church age ended long ago. The Millennial Reign of Christ is history as well. Satan was imprisoned, but has been released to deceive the whole world - and he has done an excellent job of it. The Protestant denominations are daughters of Rome. The Reformation did not recover the Gospel. Jesus is the Savior of the world. All will come to repentance and praise the loving God. None will be lost. Eternal torment in hell is a pagan lie and not found in scripture. God loves you. Blessings
I'm sorry, friend, but Jesus talked more about hell than anyone else throughoit the bible. John, in Revelation talks about hell. Paul talked about hell. The psalms talk about hell. Not really a pagan concept. Yes, the Greeks mention Hades too but its not the same. Its just a place for the dead. Hell is real; a place of weeping and where there is gnashing of teeth.
@@tigerdoug6072 That would be wonderful news. If none of us ever had to repent of our sin or believe in Christ alone as Savior and King of the universe. That would be great. No responsibility, no accountability. Yes, grace abounds but it doesn't mean that we get to use our freedom as an excuse to sin. It would be wonderful news. But the good news is that the door is open that we might be called by the Father, so that through the Son, His death and resurrection- we find salvation.
Thanks for the reply Josh. It is indeed wonderful news.....a truly victorious Savior that redeems all creation!! Philippians 2:10-11 states that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Repentance is to have a change of mind, which is what all people will have during the time of judgement. We are responsible for our actions and thoughts, as 1 Corinthians 3 explains: "and if any one doth build upon this foundation(Jesus is the foundation) gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive; if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire." Our works will be refined by fire, the good will remain and the bad will be destroyed, but the individual will be saved. Jesus, the Lamb of God, has taken away the sin of the world. This is the good news, that most will realized after the day of resurrection. We do not find God - He draws us to Him as Jesus said in John 12:32: "if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself." Peace to you.
And in that day many will say to me did we not preach and perform miracles in your name.......and I will say to them depart from me you workers of inquity I never knew you.
One of the signs of a healthy church is people standing around and within the church building after the service is over - chatting, laughing and sharing. People who like to be together and are really fond of one another, even voluntarily visiting one another.
Many churches do that, but very few churches have got members that show their faces to each other apart from Sunday too.
One crucial issue. Humility in the leadership
You really said something here
How about checking if your church is a church, and not just a club?
Very true 👍
So many are like clubs now.
Or a Concert Production?
Hi Pastor Tim. Great message! I'm a saved Pentecostal believer. I've been in a pentecostal "holiness" church for many years. It's also a south-indian church. The structure of the church is nice, but it's a bit legalistic and even narcissistic. My husband is also narcissistic. I stepped away from this church a few times, but I went back cause I thought God wanted me to go back. I'm no longer comfortable their since I haven't always been accused for cutting my hair. The church has always been a bit controlling and Ive actually tried to get some in the congregation to "wake-up" but not everybody wants to. A few "friends" in the church have put me down and tried to make me feel that I'm not a "good enough" believer. I've firmly confronted them about that and also about gossiping about me, including gossiping about me if I tried to get them to understand that the church was not " healthy". I visited a different church recently but it was a "Jesus only" church...I believe in the Trinity so I left that church. I found out about narcissism through watching TH-cam videos, that's how I realized my husband is narcissistic. Unfortunately, I've got too many health issues and I can't survive on my own, so I'm not able to leave my husband yet. With the church ministy also telling it's members not to associate with anyone who leaves the church, and my unhealthy "marriage" I'm very stuck. Please advise me on what you think of my message. I'm sorry for this long msg. Thank you. God bless you.
How about measuring the church by love? Like does your church members treat each other with a brotherly/sisterly love? If there were no worship songs or sermon and the members were just gathering would a non-believer say, "these people are full of love, and this is what I want to be a part of"? Is your church always excited and joyful to be gathering together, even when the awesome songs and sermons stop, and they're just simply praying together, or reading the bible, or singing a song together?
I don't think love alone should be a qualifier. Love, doctrine, evangelism, and holiness of the members I think would be a good way to determine if one is healthy.
Totally agree. I should have mentioned that love isn't all there is to it, but it is the most important in the christian life/church.
Timothy Mayes you can go to a kaballistic meeting full of love. Two key qualities that define God are truth and love. We are far off on both.
The UN is promoting the bahai faith ( channelled).. take the best out of all world religions and throw the rest out. Again lots of hugs. satan wants to control both good and evil in this realm.
Jesus warned more about false doctrine and decievers than anything else. It is extensive.
Reminds me of ..
John 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
All you need is God -God
My church has summer picnics and they split into two groups. My wife is not a Christian and I took her to church, she didn't find it friendly and found it cliquey. I go because I help out and it's difficult to extricate myself. When I can I go to another Church but lockdown has put a stop to that.
How about measuring the church by there: birth rate, divorce rate, rates of measurement of growth in giving and how may missionaries are sent out, and health of the churches they plant.
Tim, I learn from and enjoy your teaching. But, on the case of building a church around the community: 1- I think that, yes, a financially moderate church does need to reflect the community, however if a church plant is going to be in a wealthy area it should not represent elaboration of wealth but proportions to share our wealth with those other believers in need and for the proclamation of the Gospel. 2- I disagree with the notion that a church had to be primarily one ethnic group of believers. Based on Galatians 3:28 the church is a gathering based on the unity of one in the Holy Sprit. The culture of God’s kingdom should be pre-eminent not the culture of any one specific culture/ethnic group.
A healthy church is winning souls and making disciples who KNOW the Scriptures, Reaping a harvest, in the wild.
Acts 2:42-47 The Original and Ultimate Church Model
Tim great content as always keep sharing my brother I love your stuff👏🏽
HEALTHY CHURCH MEANS NOT PHYSICAL THINGS BUT HEALTHY CHURCH HOW MUCH PEOPLE KNOW THE REALITY OF WORD OF GOD
William Branham sermo
What is knowing the reality of the word of God?
My goodness. My Church is not Holy Spirit filled. I haven't been going because the church is literally divided. I'm trying to grow in Christ and I feel like its toxic in there.
You should find a new church! I would advise even going to SBC Church locator if you need help getting started.
@@Mulerider4Life where is that at? I live in the bay area
@@NotUrAvrg so there are a good amount of them. Go to Google, type in SBC church locator, then click the result that says Church Search. Then type your address in the search box of the site and it will give you theologically sound churches in your area. Try out a few and see what you think! God Bless!
The very fact that you can say "wealthy churches & poor churches and black churches & white churches" SCREAMS that the "big C" Church is quite unhealthy. In scripture they "had ALL things in common" (emphasis added).
Ask them these three questions. What is a belief? How do I have one? How can I be sure that I am right? These are questions we asked our 12 children before they started school.
I got fed up with being a new Christian and not getting the support from my church. Not getting answers to my questions.
True
I'm sorry you went through that :( Try a different church, or look for information online. Ask God to guide you to the answers. Sometimes half the people in some churches, including the pastor, aren't even true Christians, I'm sorry to say. It depends on the church. I understand you, I've encountered some issues myself. Don't give up on God! Where we will spend eternity is the most important thing! It's the end times we are living in, so that's why some churches are like this. If you want, you can write some of your questions here and I will try to answer or direct you to information from reputable Christian sources. God loves you! x
Excellent vid. Thanks for your ministry.
What do I do if I don’t like the general attitude in my town? How should it affect the community?
Depends - Try to change it from within, or consider the disconnect as a call somewhere else. As Derek Thomas said in his 2017 G3 conference sermon, The closer your walk with God, the easier the answer will be! God Bless! :)
Dont get me wrong, being part of a healthy church is a good thing, but too many times we focus on what others can do to grow spiritually rather than ourselves. Like if a person is rude to you one Sunday, rather than praying for them or even asking them why we jump to conclusions and decide well they just dont like me or wow they are just selfish. Then we tell others who then may have had a similar encounter with them then we just assume the worst of them. Ask the spirit to work on ourselves first and then maybe through us the others will do the same seeing the results of our lives and if not then continue to improve yourself and just pray for them. Because just as you see their flaws others may see yours.
It's called qualitative measure. There are biblical qualities by which you can measure a healthy church.
Very nice your messages, sir what is your religion please?
How quickly do they burn out Pastors
Love ur vids. So important.
Can you give a video about politics within church, I am a church member, however I'm a member where I don't like to get involved in other's person life. I'm very private however if I ask for advice then I will want for that person to give me advice. But sometimes they want to know everything where it's not right, sometimes I don't even feel comfortable within other church members, I love God and I want to be stronger. But that's the issue I have. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate any church members of the community but sometimes some people want to know everything. It's kind of annoying. That's why I make sure who am I talking to.
This is great...I hope it can put on Facebook
Very helpful. Thank you.
Thanks a lot for putting this together but what about the contain of the teaching and worshio, how the church use the money, if the leaders meet the biblical criteria.. That would indicate a church health as well
I Love your Videos Tim
im a baptist
If a church plays music from Hillsong, or Bethel, and runs The Alpha Course, it would be best to look for another church.
Why
My church does but I won't leave, but I don't sing with it
Or correct them and lead them in the right direction
What's wrong with the Alpha course
Does Matthew 18:19 work ? Answer mostly NO.!
Helpful
So in other parts of the world there are 'white' and 'black' churches😇
The proper question should be how do you know if a church is saved?
that;s not biblical, even if few people in the church are not saved, many others will be, individuals get saved, not the church as an assembly which is a group of saved individuals.
You cannot objectively measure what is spiritual.
A reminder the God loves you and Jesus died for your. sins 💓 💓
Discernment and true prophets are cursed, not promoted - that's the main sign that the church is unhealthy - Kundalini infested. Emotional hype and soulish approach is valued, and spiritual things are suppressed.
Does your church operate according to the specific instructions of 1 Corinthians 14:26-33 ??????
"So here's what I want you to do. When you gather for worship, each one of you be prepared with something that will be useful for all: Sing a hymn, teach a lesson, tell a story, lead a prayer, provide an insight. If prayers are offered in tongues, two or three's the limit, and then only if someone is present who can interpret what you're saying. Otherwise, keep it between God and yourself. And no more than two or three speakers at a meeting, with the rest of you listening and taking it to heart. Take your turn, no one person taking over. Then each speaker gets a chance to say something special from God, and you all learn from each other. If you choose to speak, you're also responsible for how and when you speak. When we worship the right way, God doesn't stir us up into confusion; he brings us into harmony. This goes for all the churches-no exceptions." (The Message)
Or do you sit and watch the professional clergy turn you into a spectator?
I'm making hand gestures because I think it makes what I say seem important....even though said gestures have nothing to do with what I'm saying. Maybe I'm copying John Piper and that Matt guy who's always touching his mouth.🙃
******
One of the signs of a healthy church is the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Bible, and not compromised to the present or pasthuman world standards and values.
The Word that’s preached MUST BE unadulterated: not corrupted, not partial and not watered down; otherwise it’s best to find a church that does preach the unadulterated Word of God. Remember, it’s our souls that are at stake - eternity in hell is ‘in hell FOR EVER.’
Geek fest
Tim. Go back to school and recalibrate your epistemology. Read everything by TF Torrance. You are exhausting .I think you may have the old OCD.
You sound like you are reading from a script. Binding up loads on people's backs and not lifting a finger to help comes to mind.
I think he’s extremely succinct, to the point, on target, with sound doctrine and charity. I think you are a divider.
The church age ended long ago. The Millennial Reign of Christ is history as well. Satan was imprisoned, but has been released to deceive the whole world - and he has done an excellent job of it. The Protestant denominations are daughters of Rome. The Reformation did not recover the Gospel. Jesus is the Savior of the world. All will come to repentance and praise the loving God. None will be lost. Eternal torment in hell is a pagan lie and not found in scripture. God loves you. Blessings
I'm sorry, friend, but Jesus talked more about hell than anyone else throughoit the bible. John, in Revelation talks about hell. Paul talked about hell. The psalms talk about hell. Not really a pagan concept. Yes, the Greeks mention Hades too but its not the same. Its just a place for the dead. Hell is real; a place of weeping and where there is gnashing of teeth.
Hi Josh. What if Jesus did save the whole world? Would you consider that to be good news?
@@tigerdoug6072 That would be wonderful news. If none of us ever had to repent of our sin or believe in Christ alone as Savior and King of the universe. That would be great. No responsibility, no accountability. Yes, grace abounds but it doesn't mean that we get to use our freedom as an excuse to sin. It would be wonderful news. But the good news is that the door is open that we might be called by the Father, so that through the Son, His death and resurrection- we find salvation.
Thanks for the reply Josh.
It is indeed wonderful news.....a truly victorious Savior that redeems all creation!!
Philippians 2:10-11 states that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Repentance is to have a change of mind, which is what all people will have during the time of judgement.
We are responsible for our actions and thoughts, as 1 Corinthians 3 explains:
"and if any one doth build upon this foundation(Jesus is the foundation) gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive; if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire."
Our works will be refined by fire, the good will remain and the bad will be destroyed, but the individual will be saved.
Jesus, the Lamb of God, has taken away the sin of the world. This is the good news, that most will realized after the day of resurrection.
We do not find God - He draws us to Him as Jesus said in John 12:32:
"if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself."
Peace to you.
And in that day many will say to me did we not preach and perform miracles in your name.......and I will say to them depart from me you workers of inquity I never knew you.