I wholeheartedly agree. When I went to an MMA class, as a BJJ blue belt, I thought I’d be able to hold my own. I was wrong, and got absolutely mauled by wrestlers and kick-boxers because of my limited training in striking and wrestling. There’s a reason why it’s called *Mixed Martial Arts* .
It doesn't matter the fighting skill of the fighter. It matters how good they are at it. what matters is the physical ability of the other fighters not everybody's made for this
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed I’m not sure I agree. I’m pretty good at BJJ, but have huge gaps in my striking and wrestling games. I doubt more BJJ is gonna improve my striking. It depends on how skilled the fighter is in the given field - and BJJ is only one piece of the puzzle
@@patrickrichard5948 My point is that when you are really good at what you do, not many people can beat you. I am more of a striker than a grappler. But if you look at let's take for example. Khabib he stuck to what he knew best because he knew that that was where he was unstoppable. If he would have got up and started to strike like let's say Ronda Rousey did then he would probably lose just like a Rousey did. If you want to improve on your striking you have to work on it. Striking is mostly about timing. Do striking exercises that will improve your timing.
I tend to agree. BJJ was so successful because grappling was so under-developed in that era. Grapplers have an egregious advantage against a striker who doesn't know how to grapple. But now that every fighter is going to learning grappling and drilling takedown defenses and how to defend themselves against a grappler, that advantage has been enormously reduced; to the extent that striking, BBJ and wrestling are all about equally important in a fighter's toolset. Otherwise, every single fighter would just be learning BBJ and nothing else. If Royce Gracie, as revolutionary as he was in his own era, was to enter into the UFC today with the toolset he had in the 90s, he'd lose 100% of his matches. Because the game has changed. He helped change it.
Wrestling is the most prolific combat sport in America. It has never been underdeveloped. The Gracies specifically avoided other grappling disciplines in the UFC during their involvement with the promotion.
@@IncredibleMD Let me rephrase: It was undeveloped in the fledgling sport of mixed martial arts. I'm not saying that grappling didn't exist, heck, Ramsey even makes that point about wrestling in this very video, just that there weren't a lot of people using grappling in mixed martial arts at the time.
Agree. Also, it's more sport-oriented today too. Time limits, rounds, certain limitations on holds and strikes. Back in the earliest days of the event, groin strikes were allowed, hair pulling was allowed, and smothering was allowed. Small joint manipulation and eye-gouging or biting were the only prohibited offensive maneuvers I can recall, and every fight had no time limit. You won either by someone giving up or getting knocked out or put to sleep. That gives also big advantages to submission grapplers, because they can really take their time to work the opponent down, stay out of range for as long as needed, or whatever. Fights were often very boring back then and guys might go 15 minutes straight before anyone was declaired a winner. Guys would take someone down and then be on the ground for 10 minutes looking for a choke or arm bar. The ref never stood anyone back up.
@@seraphinaaizen6278 Again, that's because the Gracies didn't really let other grapplers into the UFC when they controlled it. Ken Shamrock was one of the few exceptions, and look at how much trouble he gave Royce.
This 💯🔥🔥 even the smallest amount of grappling skill used to be enough to get past most opponents because everyone thought fighting was about standing and banging nowdays most people can grapple at some level
Saw an example of this recently in an amateur fight. A primarily BJJ competitor got beat by a younger more explosive fighter in an MMA match. Now said BJJ guy is tough and didn't just wilt under the pressure of punches (I might) and his wrestling is mucho above average than your typical BJJ player (we're working on it), he still got beat because the other fighter didn't want to engage on the ground. The younger guy basically Chuck Lidelled the grappler every time he got taken down. MMA has evolved to the point where the guys that can't integrate will never make it to the top. There are no styles.
As my MMA coach says: you can do bjj off your back all you want in your amateur matches, but that doesn't work against when you fight a dagestani or chechen wrestler
I would like to make the one clarification that wrestling does also give you a way to fight in less than ideal situations; getting the fuck out of it. Grappling with BJJ guys, who WANTED to be on the ground built very bad habits in me. So when I trained against wrestlers, they were consistently just able to explode out in one direction or another. Of course, I'm not saying BJJ doesn't have reversals and such, but there just isn't such an explosive disengagement or reset. I think the ability to simply get back up is a very valuable skill, outside of BJJ tournaments.
It's always been insane to me how BJJ took judo ground techniques without also taking the techniques to put people on the ground. But if they took that as well... they'd just be judo.
@@IncredibleMD On the other hand, it could be argued that if Judo didn't remove leg grabs and introduce a bunch of restrictive gripping rules on top of that, and allowed guard pulls and a longer time on the ground, it would start looking more like BJJ. Kosen Judo is an excellent example of how this evolution in the other direction is also possible. I definitely agree, though, BJJ gyms could do a little more with their standup training in general.
@@iandougherty215 Oh, yeah, I'm a big critic of modern sport Judo as well. We need to return to tradition and teach all of what Kano Jigoro taught, even if that does make Olympic officials feel it's too similar to wrestling. But BJJ was incomplete from the concept.
This is so true. When I transitioned from MMA and decided to focus on "Just Jujitsu", my grappling sucked! In the context of sport bjj. Fast forward a few years and I'm a purple belt, thinking my bjj skills will translate in the cage but then guess what? I sucked at grappling in MMA. Every time I was under pressure I felt the need to pull into a seated guard position, which is a very bad idea in MMA. Moral of the story? BJJ is a game and MMA is fighting. At some point the 2 may cross over but never to the extend where one is synonymous with the other.
It’s not that two will crossover eventually, it started out that way then diverged. Wrestlers getting into no gi grappling now might reverse that. In 10 years time no gi and gi bjj will be completed seperate to eachother.
Royce Gracie grew up literally in a rich family who spent a large portion of their time trying to push their name as fighters. He was literally fighting in grappling matches with striking his entire life. It didn't take long for people to catch up.
I can't believe UFC1 is almost 30. That makes me feel old. I see MMA as an RPG stat sheet. Each phase is a differeng stat. Striking, grappling, ground game, and spacing
to me the 3 horsemen of MMA in that era I'd say were Mark coleman, Don Frye and Dan Severn, I think those 3 set such a high bar in terms of pressure and aggression
@@PBas-qq4uh a good example of what happened then was they went into the gym's found a bunch of monsters and let them fight. Something very close to what happened with Eddie Hall It wasn't a MMA match. It was a circus
Dude from my State , OSU , Kenny Monday , Olympic gold medalist ....was the guy who gave the BJJ crew a run for their money. He even had a system for sale in Black Belt magazine. Stated he could beat them. And took their challenges.
I am from OR also! We have some really good wrestlers coaches in the Northwest(Oregon, Washington, Idaho and Montana). These guys at a high school level are giving collegiate athletes a run as freshmen.
Of course an olympic level wrestler can smash most BJJ students as most BJJ students are white to blue belts. He is an olympic level wrestler, he's at the highest point in his sport. Put him against ADCC winners and let's see how he does. Put him against BJJ high level guys and he doesn't last.
Yeah, you just don't see any "single style" fighters that go very far in the UFC anymore. The lesson from Royce Gracie wasn't that BJJ was the best style, it was that no one style is enough.
I like how you made the point of jiujitsu and wrestling often looking similar, sometimes to both the trained and untrained eye. That's often a point we make in our own Sumo training. When we don't have our belts on, what we do doesn't look so different from Greco Roman.
Wrestlers don't pull guard. They don't like being on their back. It's funny how the nerds think they are special because they know the difference ha ha ha
Oh totally. Sumo without the mawashi, is a different experience. Might look a bit like Greco or No-Gi Judo. Yet, it still retains the Oshi elements. Which is pretty unique. But there are enough international Sumotori that all bring their own native wrestling styles in with them, that sumo is bound to have elements of each when the goal is to win. So an observer is bound to see a flash of this or that. To Ramsey’s point, Catch Wrestling and no-Gi BJJ do look quite similar. When it’s submission fighting only, maybe a standing or ground initiation preference is the biggest difference at a glance.
What's interesting is the bjj dethroned itself in the states. Alot of schools now are embracing wrestling and working on incorporating it into bjj. Hell even high level guys are focusing on wrestling up from the gaurd. B team and daisy fresh guys have getting alot succuss. (I wonder if it will just be called what it is eventually submission grappling)
@@User-54631 bruh 1) it's Gordon fkin Ryan 2) he out wayed Jacob couch by 30-40 pounds I think 3) Jacob is still only a fresh brown belt 4) apparently danaher has been focusing alot on top pressure and smothering.
Agreed one hundred per cent. Meanwhile Marcelo Garcia is beating the crap out of all the elite wrestlers making it look easy. Without Jiu Jitsu wrestling is shit its based on strength not skill. Pus they forget that Wrestling take downs are shit in the street. Matt Hughs a wrestler got choked out by BJ pen easy. Marillo Bustamonte took down Matt THE LAW Linland a greco roman wrestler and beat the fuck out of him before knocking him out. The only reason People like wrestling is for take downs which wont work in a street fight. And if wrestling is better then Jiu Jitsu why do Wrestlers Sproll not to get taken down by Jiu Jitsu guys??
Instead of thinking about what's been dethroned, I just look at what unique thing each art brings to the table. Strong wrestlers pick and choose where the battle happens. Strong BJJ people break limbs. Strong boxers punch people in the face, often and repeatedly. Strong thai guys make people fight for every inch of space in front of them. And strong judo people can end the match with a single throw.
This is about 50% true. But other martial arts or a blend of martial arts i should say, are superior than just learning that one. More legit tools=more chance to beat one single legit tool
@@hasanagic96 So i compared Bjj to a tool you use and is only as capable as the user can be. I NEVER stated the user can only have 1 tool. Tools have limits otherwise we would only HAVE 1 tool in existence. You can also use tools in conjunction with other tools. Im not "about 50% true". Im 100%. You are arguing with a point I never made nor implied.
@@arewestilldoingphrasing6490 even with ur analogy, the tool is less effective than others, specifically wrestling. For every supper effective bjj guy you have 5 wrestlers who smesh
@@tomjones2056 The tool is less effective than others. I could concede if the tool is broken and or inoperable. But you are saying its less effective than others. Is this the fault of the tool or the user? My statement compares bjj to a tool. I did not say Bjj is the best tool or the most effective. I said it is only as good as the user meaning if it isnt working its more likely the fault of the user because bjj doesnt fight by itself it used by fighters. So a bad user with a great tool is not going to produce great results. You can use tools with other tools thats the idea of mma. That means my original statement still stands
Tools also have different functionality, and some are more generalized, and better at a multitude of tasks rather than being specialized for a single one. A specialized tool can absolutely be useless outside of the intended purpose, and some tools are really just poorly designed. The whole "a style is only as good as the user" really doesn't hold up when some styles are just flat-out superior at producing a more competent martial artist over a shorter period of time. It's like comparing Judo or Catch Wrestling to BJJ, sure BJJ is great if you can get someone down on the floor, you can't beat it in the ground based submission specialty. But both Judo and CW are much more well rounded, and contain sufficient stand-up grappling in the syllabus that they can essentially neutralize BJJ in its entirety just through takedown defence and offence, let alone that both also give you submission defence and offence. This is why wrestling is so dominant in MMA, if you control the plane of the fight, you can basically just prevent a specialist from doing what they want to do. This is also how Sakuraba beat up the Gracie's, with Catch Wrestling. It's like comparing Modern Boxing to Muay Thai, sure Boxing is really good at one specific style of striking with the fists but Muay Thai is a more generalized striking style that will overall make you a better striker than a Boxer. A Boxer will almost never beat a Muay Thai practioner of a lower skill level, let alone one of a similar level. The user here is largely irrelevant, because the tool is insufficient for the task at hand.
The gym I train my bjj in is mostly a MMA gym so even in bjj class they tend to mention how a position is good for bjj competition or risky for MMA or flat out bad idea in real world
Awesome video Coach! This definitely also addresses the question I had about grappling vs striking. And this absolutely makes sense, to be a complete fighter you need both!
Hey ramsey!!!! Will we be getting a video covering/explaining the falling step, leg spring and the upward surge? Im currently reading championship fighting but struggle to grasp it from what im reading and feel videos are much easier to learn from. I know you saw the comment I left earlier but im impatient and just really need to know if you'll be addressing this. Thanks alot from your friend and student "Someguy*
I'd like to argue that well rounders are alot more rare and special than specialists ironically, and I'm talking about TRUE well rounders like the real MMA fighter. Not just mr muay thay and bjj, but actually someone who is super fluid. Notice how all rounders like GSP and Fedor are really special? People are weird and are usually biased towards one thing, i am also biased because i love boxing and karate. But that's my problem because i haven't had the feeling of grappling for a long time yet. But well rounders are terrifying to fight because they virtually have no weaknesses and could randomly specialize in any style of his/her choice even mid fight. I aspire to be like them one day.
I think theres a difference between being well rounded and exelling at all aspects of fighting. I would say most fighters nowdays are the former, while the latter will always be very rare. Even if most guys lean towards one aspect or another, rarely anyone is gling to be a sleeping duck in any one area. GSP and Jones are the exception. How crazy is it that a guy with a karate background would end up outwerstling guys who had wrestled their entire life? Or that jones as a blue belt was destroying black belts in the cage?
@Ramsey Dewey (0:24/6:25) Man, you're more patient with peoples questions than most youtubers, with the bonus that you actually respond sometimes. Before we even get into this video, I'd like to make a single statement about early UFC. The best fight I've seen a Gracie in was Royce verses Dan Severn. It was an epic bout I didn't think Royce was going to win, and it went on a ridiculous length for a UFC bout. It established that good wrestling and athleticism could effectively stifle BJJ, and without that one fight MMA would not be the sport it is. :D
Ive seen this mentality around, often held by peopme who should know better. I think its crazy that weve had decades of tried and tested competition at this point, and people still claim that you can get away with using one single aspect of fighting. I've seen people point to guys like khabib and charles olivera to prove that you dont need striking for example, or Israel adesanya to prove that you dont need grappling. When in reality all of the above have an incredibly balanced game despite being specialist. Khabibs boxing might not look pretty, but its extremely effective for the purposes that khabib uses it for. Charles has an incredible lead hook, and is the perfect example of why front body kicks are ao amazing. And Israel adesanya has incredible take down defense to complement his striking. We are so far past the point where you can get away with being one dimensional is crazy that some peole still believe you can get away with it.
I train BJJ at a gym licenced by the Gracies to teach their style, and what Ramsey said about the striking is spot-on for most other 'sport' Jiu-Jitsu places. But here training Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, keeping striking defense in mind in every position is the mindset the instructors want to drill in to you. We do entire lessons based on blocking punches from the guard, how to control the opponent's body so that every punch takes twice the amount of energy to throw than it would normally. ...And then to submit them once they blow their tank trying to escape or punch. This is all stuff you need to prove you know before you can graduate from white belt - how to intelligently defend against an unskilled opponent, or an opponent with moderate striking knowledge. Having said that, even though Gracie-style is very well-rounded like that, I wouldn't recommend entering MMA while knowing only that. At the end of the day, it becomes useless if the other guy continually stuffs your takedowns and puts all his effort into keeping the fight standing.
That aspect of BJJ training I thought really shone in Silva Sonnen 1, Silva was getting hammered but stayed patient, defended where he could to wear Sonnen down and it eventually it paid off. He got lucky as hell sonnen played into his hands at the end by being too aggressive but his fight plan got him there.
I'm considering joining a bjj gracie gym, what are your thoughts on the gracie combatives? Is it real bjj or just a watered down version for office workers?
@@HtheKing in my opinion I would do it bro. I’m not sure 🤔 about Ramsey’s thoughts on matter but I trained individual Combat arts mostly & saw first hand Gracie JJ- My opinion = 100% if u can do MMA or each art eg Muay Thai, Wrestling, BJJ, bit of Boxing = then these 2 options are always best options (IMO). But if u don’t have the time in life to do all these & only for 1 Art, I would 100% go for something like Gracie JJ, as they teach u about avoiding as little strikes as possible, distance management & even some SIMPLE takedowns. Or even Sambo, although pros & cons here too. I’d love to know your thoughts Ramsey as you are much more proficient than I am to answer this this question. Thanks 🙏
@@PHATT_TV I I'm definitely going to do bjj but I'm more interested in it for self defense purposes rather than sports jiu jujitsu so gracie sounds like the best choice. Have you heard of the SBG mma gyms? I was also considering taking their bjj beginner classes instead. Just need to decide which is better
Same conversation happened in the 1700's about dueling. This is later but a great read in your lock down. THE LAST OF THE NEW ORLEANS FENCING MASTERS | The Double Dealer
I'd say most of the BJJ guys coming to MMA losing because of how much gi emphasis their original sport have. You need to be able to scramble and create openings in MMA, rather than stall.
@@paulbadman8509 its more the mentality and the scoring point system, in wrestling, sambo, judo being on the bottom isn't beneficial, in bjj the literary sit on their butts.
I have been flying the Wrestling flag in these comments for a while now, it's good to see wrestling is getting its due respect and educating those BJJ practitioners that have been deniers all these years. Wrestling IS the main ingredient in the sport of MMA, period
Yep, it’s been known since ancient greece. Still need all the pieces of the puzzle, but there’s a clear deficit when one MMA fighter doesn’t understand wrestling and the other does.
@@badtrekee4348 you sound like an ignorant kid. Ignorant meaning you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, it's common knowledge son now walk upstairs out of the basement and smack your mom square in the mouth for producing such an idiot, and tell her to wash her stinking ass before she comes back over to my house
The question you are answering isn't formulated clearly. In order to be de-throned, you have to be the king or queen. Is BJJ the king of MMA? No. Does anyone who wants to be competitive in MMA have to absolutely master 'submission grappling', in addition to striking? Yes. And be able to blend the two well, a-la-GSP.
I guess it was dethroned ultimately because of the unification of dresscode giving the gi-players a lot of headaches vs less specialized generalistic fighters from a kickboxing/shootwrestling background. Then again, at the time, K1 was just way more successful and exciting whereas matches in the UFC were either very short knockouts or long lasting bjj constrictions (technically interesting but obscure and alien to the average viewer coming from boxing/kickboxing) with little interesting striking in my opinion. Personally i think it was Chuck Lidell who best represents this formalisation from a niche BJJ family tournament and Gracie club promotion to a proper show with its own fighting style. This is where the UFC edges out this repertoire of almost cartoonish, larger than life figures. (not to lessen the previous contenders contribution of course...)
the answer depends on what is considered to be the 'throne' in this instance if it's being looked at as the only pivotal style, yah that throne is shared by a lot of styles, if you mean, the submission grappling style used by the majority of fighters in the UFC, realistically BJJ does sit on that throne and will for the forseable future if we consider like overall grappling I'd argue that Wrestling is on the throne instead but again, it's all down to the definition of what the 'throne' is
Coach dead on again. Grappling alone is not enough nowadays to compete in MMA. I have gotten lots of control skill from grappling (20+yrs in Tai chi pressure tested vs wrestlers and MMA and BJJ ametures) but adding in the striking has become a necissary part of completing the Taiji journey to full fighting) We have in our Taiji many striking and power generation methods not seen much anymore. When I do grappling in practice I try to make sure I am setting myself up to strike and protecting myself from striking even if the training partner doesn't always know I am working on these skills when we roll. We in Taiji have a trained skill called pushing/sticking hands that is practiced in sets with cooperative people before it later becomes a free form grappling skill. What we get out of push hands depends on what we are trying to work on. In the beginning it's about uprooting or controlling the other person while keeping them from doing the same to you. Later once you are good at protecting your root while disrupting theirs then you can choose what to focus on. I spent several months just working on traps when rolling with people and I got really skilled at covering 2 hands with one while leaving a striking hand open. Next level is to bring in the striking to be live under pressure and some getting hit either in sparing or in cage. It's been an interesting journey and I have enjoyed much of the advice and inight on this channel as Ramsey is very open minded and I am a huge kungfu/MA nerd as well.
You crosstrain in striking and ground fighting because only when you know what the other guy can do can you apply your art in its intended niche. Personally, I think Judo has some great takedowns to add to a fighters game.
Remember this - Sumi Gaeshi instead of pulling guard. If you succeed with this sacrifice throw - you're on top, if you fail - you basically pulled guard.
The Gracies did not invent MMA they invented the UFC, Maurice smith invented MMA when he showed one dimensional grapplers that real fights have real damage and if you fail the takedown they have no way to defend punches or kicks.
I walked in to my first BJJ class with nothing but high school wrestling and 15 years of watching MMA, I was already mauling fellow white belts and even some blue belts. There’s a reason the Gracie’s kept American wrestlers away from the old UFC tournaments as long as they could
And then you woke up from ur wet dream. I was beating wrestlers after a few months. Royce 170 pounds fought Ken 220 pounds and won the first time next he fought Dan Serven who was much heaver and bigger then Ken and won. And Royce wasnt concidered a great Jiu Jitsu player from anyone who knew anything about Jiu Jitsu. Royce got choked out in seconds when he fough ishmil from the Carson gracie team aka the future brazilian Top team.
I really like how you talk about bjj as the "opposite" of wrestling, because I've always felt the same way since I started bjj after my wrestling experience. I view wrestling as primarily tactical as in the game of chess, while I feel like bjj is significantly more "strategical" as in the chinese game "go". In wrestling you have one way to win--pin your opponent's shoulders to the ground. In bjj, you can submit almost any part of the body. And this goes in line with wrestling being tactical (i.e. position based) because your goal is already defined, but in bjj you can more or less set your goal for your self by deciding what body part to attack at any given time.
Wrestling was used from. Ancient greece until now. It is very good. Martial art in close range. When you watch different decades every new style came up. First was kiclboxing than bjj came than wrestling and now muay thai and sanda will conquer the next decade. Martial Art is in development. And changing.
Hi Ramsey, Thank you for your videos. I've been listening to your insights for years and very much appreciate them. Do you think there's a distorted preference towards striking in the UFC because it's more entertaining to watch? And that wrestling, in a percentage sense, would prevail if people weren't watching? One of your comments suggested that there was a natural evolution towards wrestling in the early UFC, once everyone knew a bit of everything. I know it's a daft question, because fighters favour different skill sets, but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at. I'm thinking of Khabib and GSP.
BJJ however is the one that still trains wearing cloths though.. so you can make an argument that it’s back to its intended purpose of being good for self defence. (Yes you need to adapt tactics for situation and number of opponents, the possibilities of being slammed etc.) But even something as basic as being effective at standing grip breaks could be the difference between escaping a violent encounter or being dragged to your doom.) Also hey Ramsey I’ve been getting out there and training for nearly a year now! Look how much better my comments have gotten! 😂🤙
BJJ by it’s own admission acknowledges it’s not good (at all) as a stand alone for self-defense. It Hard fails against multiple attackers by it’s own admission. Dunno who told you anything else.
I don't know. I was always taught that we train to fight, but only if there's no other option, and to avoid situations that could put us in a position to have to, as much as possible. I've been training (admittedly off and on) in Shito-ryu since 1994. Although I began because I was bullied, I've come to the conclusion that martial arts, regardless of style, should be to protect oneself, those one loves, and those who cannot protect themselves. I've never understood what honor there is in sport fighting. I do enjoy watching Machida Sensei though, but I think that largely has to do with his traditional Karate (Shotokan) background.
Wrestlers had to learn how to avoid submissions before they could dominate. They are tough guys (I wrestled a little in HS) but until they learn how to protect their necks, etc... They are easy to beat by BJJ. So wrestlers had to learn some BJJ before they could compete. The athletic caliber of the wrestlers that came later was superior to the BJJ athletes who were inferior. Of course, rules were changed to favor the strikers (and wrestlers) that had some part in it as well. But wrestlers are hard to take down and do have escape skills. Basically, BJJ is geared for less athletic persons. A weak person cannot be a good wrestler it is strength on strength (all things being equal).
@@badtrekee4348 I remember when I was taking BJJ and some young HS wrestlers started coming to class. They were young and strong but kept extending their necks, arms, etc... Easy to beat even though they were far superior athletes to most of us in the class. They quit out of frustration. It was just a little too different and they didn't want to spend the time learning BJJ.
Only 1% exist that are a well-rounded fighter there is no MMA organization that has a complete true MMA fighter. like I said, there's only 1% that exists.
6:14 If bjj doesnt factor in much in mma success, which combat sports do? Im thinking Muay thai and wrestling. I did 5 years of karate, 2 years of boxing, 1 year of grappling. When can I win an mma fight?
Not True. In MMA fights start on their feet, not on their knees So the first thing and foundation you should learn is kickboxing. Because there's two arts in one When you learn how to kickbox and get a belt in that and consider yourself a well-rounded striker, then you can go to a grappling organization and learn how to do that and compete and win a belt in wrestling and consider yourself a well-rounded wrestler. Then with the combined expertise of kickboxing and your wrestling, you can then consider yourself a true MMA fighter. Because what's going to happen to you is you will think you are an MMA fighter like Tyrone Woodley and Conor McGregor. Just went into one aspect of mixed martial arts and were both humiliated. The only true MMA fighters of this planet that ever existed were the Greeks. The only true MMA of this planet is Pankration.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed That's a nice theory but evidence shows that wrestles have always been on top as a base, apart from the first few UFCs with Royce. That doesn't mean that kickboxing isn't a good base, in fact it probably does better than BJJ but it's not the best. Also I think boxing slightly outweighs kickboxing.
@@nosson77 it's mixed martial arts so you would rather go into kickboxing because you need to kick not only punch. The only difference between kickboxers and boxers is there head movement. Kickboxers will have a more stiff upright position to where boxers will have a more hunched over position which leaves you open for kicks. So to do, boxing is actually going to put you in a position where you're in danger of getting kicked. Boxers duck to avoid a punch. So in MMA fights you need to be aware of knees and kicks and this is why boxing is not the best when it comes to MMA. Boxing is the best striking style when it comes to the hands.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed You're getting hung up on your theories. But they are irrelevant if they contradict reality. Even if they agree with reality you would need to test out in practice if your theory is true. Fact is boxers do very well in MMA (although not the best) why that is? I'm not sure. Maybe the level of competition is higher I'm the countries that most mma fighers are likely to come from and being highly trained in one fighting sport maybe more valuable then not so highly trained in another. But for what ever the reason boxing does well in MMA. But tje difference between boxing and kickboxing is slight so it's not a major deal. But wrestling beats them all.
@@nosson77 I am that one percent Bro. I do it all. I'm Greek we invented this shit. What I say is Gold. A pure boxer will have a harder time than a kickboxer to Make the switch to MMA. Number one a boxer's legs are not even trained to kick or take a kick. A boxer's not even trained to look out for head kicks or knees. My theories are not theories. They're facts. Everything I've said on this, whatever you want to call it channel is 100% facts.
Love your channel. I'm a moderately out of shape man (6', ~200 lbs. - probably more fat than muscle) turning 39 this year, and I'm finally at a place where I want to learn how to fight competently for self-defense. I probably won't really have time to cross-train in different styles, so I'm looking for recommendations on a single style that will get me there. [[As an aside, I do understand that there are variables such as local availability and the quality of instruction (i.e. real vs McDojo), but I'm looking for a general recommendation.]] I've been considering BJJ, Judo, and Freestyle Wrestling (if I can find a place that actually teaches it to adults), but I may be completely missing something. I've also thought about straight boxing, but I have gathered that grappling *tends* to outperform striking. Again, maybe I'm missing something. Any advice from you (or the community) would be most appreciated and welcome. Again, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. Thank you for your genuine dedication to helping people improve themselves.
I mean anyone who had brothers knows how to grapple a little bit, it's the basics of every teir of fighting.... But I bet even the Gracies would have issues trying pure bbj against modern fighters who's been studying for decades to counter bjj takedowns. Grappling was a glaring hole in every fighting system, one that modern martial arts have quickly adjusted for.
while yes, mma or the ufc as it were are not bjj. the first ufc event didnt go down as you explained either, there were actually several grappling arts in attendance at the time including wrestling.
On my personal MMA Mt. Rushmore, I have Randy Couture, Fedor, Spider Silva, GSP, and Khabib. Only one BJJ guy, and he was an elite Muay Thai striker to boot. My old school favorites were Bas, who was Kyokushen, kickboxing and Muay Thai, and of course Gracie. But Matt Hughes wrestled Gracie into retirement. In what universe did BJJ ever dominate MMA? But did a pure BJJ guy end Fedor's legendary run? Myth. Werdum is also a black belt in Judo and Muay Thai. The BJJ guys can't exclusively claim him.
"In what universe did BJJ ever dominate MMA?" when the UFC first came around that's what happened, jiu jitsu dominated. There was also the Gracie challenge and martial art vs martial art back in the day; BJJ dominated. No single martial art dominates MMA because MMA is its open thing.
I read the question as "BJJ is currently the best bottom position and submission martial art. Will another bottom position and submission martial art ever come along and replace it, or will it evolve?"
How many people with BJJ base are top level in top 5 in UFC rn? There are more people with striking base and wrestling base. Also a lot of wrestlers have adapted their wrestling to neutralize BJJ. Oliveira’s submission are very good because he beats you on the feet and spams subs attempt till you give him something. BJJ is great tool but it doesn’t help as a primary base.
You have to keep in mind that there are far more wrestlers in the world than BJJ guys. Just about every school in America has a wrestling program for free. BJJ is a great base to have but it won't give you everything.
I would like to see the 90s come back that was true mixed martial arts didnt matter what style you trained you went in the cage if you where brave enough now in UFC u can only og in the cage if you train ufc or mma no kung fu no ninjitsu no other martial arts there may be combinations these days in UFC but the old MMA was the real version of mortal combat
I mean, the more exotic styles in the early UFC were borderline freak shows to pad the roster, they were always fated to be weeded out by the actually dedicated practices. For kungfu specifically, you can actually find lots of MMA fighters with a sanda competition background, especially in ONE FC. If you want to see people representing exotically named kungfu styles, nothing's stopping them, they just have no reason to risk their mcdojo business getting knocked out.
@@MynameisBrianZX no doubt but its rare to see even full contact karate in ufc these days there maybe 1 or 2 guys who do full contact karate that compete in UFC
@@Chraan Wrestling doesn’t use submissions. Where do you think they learned submissions? They learned it from BJJ. You don’t think they have BJJ coaches at their gyms? You clearly didn’t understand my initial comment either.
Eh, understand everything Ramsey is saying here, and nothing he said was technically incorrect. But I still think the answer is a little bit misleading. Yes, as a standalone art, BJJ is not enough to win in most MMA competitions. But I’m not sure that means it has been dethroned, because you could make that same statement about any standalone art! And when the UFC was a style versus style competition, Brazilian jujitsu was the style that dominated. And were someone to put on a style versus style MMA competition today, or even walked into a high-level Brazilian jujitsu gym to take “the Gracie challenge“ (having trained in only a single style of MA) I don’t think things would go any differently than they did in the 90s. Furthermore, even if “well-rounded fighters“ are dominant today, training in Brazilian jiujitsu is an essential part of being a “well-rounded fighter.“ And while I’m sure there’s probably a few exceptions (most likely among people that train in another solid submission art like catch wrestling or judo) basically no one is training MMA without training some jujitsu. You can choose from among a half dozen solid striking arts for your stand up game. But for the submission game, 90% of the people out there are training jiujitsu. That doesn’t sound very dethroned at all. It sounds like it was so dominant everyone realize they had to learn it!
When the UFC was a style versus style competition (that didn't allow other grappling styles to compete), Brazilian jujitsu was the style that dominated. Remember: Gracie LOST the very first Gracie Challenge, and HANDEDLY, to judo. The form of grappling done in MMA much more closely resembles traditional Kodokan judo, the type that Maeda was teaching in Brazil (back when it was called Kano Jujutsu) and not modern bastardized Olympic Judo, than pure BJJ. What separates Ronda Rousey shoulder throwing someone into an armbar from "BJJ"? ... Well... because we treat BJJ as different, for cultural reasons. But BJJ is nothing more than Kodokan Judo ne-waza. The Gracie challenge was literal advertisement.
@@IncredibleMD Pedantic, but somewhat correct. Also irrelevant, because (as much as I like to kid my BJJ brothers and sisters about naming a technique after a judoka that beat them 😂) BJJ and judo have grown a lot farther apart since their inception. They are similar arts that share a history, but they are not the same. Also “they didn’t allow other grapplers to compete” is a lie often told to try and discredit the results. Ken shamrock was in UFC 1! UFC 2 had Remco Pardoel A JUDOKA. SMH. You lose credibility when you make ridiculous claims like that.
@@judosailor610 Compare the number of non-BJJ grapplers to the BJJ grapplers. They let some in, sure, but only just barely enough to fend of claims that they weren't allowing in non-BJJ grappling styles, as you've fallen prey to yourself.
@@IncredibleMD There was only one representative of Gracie JJ in the first couple UFCs, which was Royce. Don’t mean to be insulting, but do you actually know anything about the subject? You are literally spitting falsehoods. That’s two now.
@@judosailor610 There was only one representative of BJJ, sure, but there was only one other representative of ALL OTHER GRAPPLING STYLES. And the only reason there was only one BJJ practitioner is that they didn't want each other stepping on his toes. You only need one BJJ player when your goal is to show BJJ beating up a ton of strikers.
No clue, don't keep up with UFC. I do personally feel that actual jujitsu is alot more practical than BJJ is outside of competition but could be just me 🤷
Wrestling is a good skill. But, striking is what makes a star. The best female fighter is Valentina Shevchenko. The best male fighter is Israel Adesanya. The heavyweight champion is Francis Ngannou. None of these fighters are grapplers. It’s really quite simple. Valentina said it took her a few months to learn grappling, but years to master striking. Sorry, to all the grapplers out there, but you had a good run. We had to learn grappling to allow us to do our strikes unfettered. We did. Now, We don’t have to be compliant and stay on the ground. We just get up. Matt Hughes fought Gracie, and it never even went to the ground. Two of the greatest grapplers, and Hughes just kicked his legs out from under him and that was the fight. Bottom line is you have to have some skills in all areas, but if you want to be a super star, that people will pay to watch, you better learn to strike. That’s why grappling was eliminated in boxing, kickboxing and the like. Not because it was ineffective, but because very few people really want to see it. So, we completely lost that skill set because we stopped training for it as it had nothing to do with professional fighting sports. Then the UFC came along and we had to learn it again. It’s nothing new. Boxers, such as Jack Dempsey used to wrestle to stay in shape. He even wrote a book of combat self defense for the coast guard with a well known wrestler of the day. I have a copy of that book. So the long and the short of it is, we had to learn it, so that we never need to use it. Thanks for the video.
BJJ fanboys typically feel that it is a complete system for all situations (in or out of the ring). It's so hard to convince them that it's only small part of a skillset you need to be a complete fighter.
What BJJ guy is saying it's a complete system for all situations? Before going into MMA I was a BJJ guy and never heard that 1 time in any place I trained at.
@@bane3991 If that were true, BJJ would look a lot more like Judo (even modern sport Judo). Being hunched over like a BJJ player would be a huge mistake if all of Judo's throws and sweeps were on the table.
@@IncredibleMD You can use judo in BJJ. We learn judo and wrestling in BJJ. But now in modern BJJ we focus more on wrestling because it's the best way to take someone down, judo is inferior so that is why BJJ guys are more hunched over, it's easier to take people down and defend against the take down. Back then, in the 90s and before judo was the more preferred method of take downs for jiu jitsu guys but it has changed in recent years. You still learn judo but it takes a major back seat now.
Please don't take this comment as a complaint, but I would like to say your voice recording suffer from some clicking noise as of late. It seems to be not on my side, so I wanted to let you know in case this kind of comments is welcome.
Yeh there aren’t really any good catch wrestlers. People who call themselves that are either just wrestlers or No Gi BJJ black belts who don’t like the gi system.
@@eveningstar7812 I think it also has to do with the fact that catch wrestling isn't really popular compared to bjj or olympic wrestling (at least in Europe, which is where i live)
Perhaps it is time for us combat sport fans and practitioners to look back at all the hype and marketing that the BJJ community pushed on the rest of the world. Isn't it time to correct the view of what is truly effective? The BJJ leaders told everyone their art was the best and the most effective. Now that 30 years have passed, history shows their art has been demolished by strikers and wrestlers and has almost disappeared from MMA. If we rank the essential skills in MMA, we find that Groundfighting is the least effective and the least used skill in MMA. It ranks last after striking defense and offense, clinching skills, takedown skills, throwing skills, and riding (ground control) skills. Submission holds are rarely seen in MMA anymore because everyone knows the basic counters and blocks for them. What does this all mean? It means they completely misrepresented the value and usefulness of their art. The techniques of boxing and wrestling haven't changed since the 90's, yet now we see their techniques are completely dominant. The only reason BJJ is so weak now, and was so dominant before, is that it's no longer a surprise. Now that everyone knows the techniques, we see how risky and unreliable they are against skilled fighters.
We all saw how The Gracie's ran through everybody while wearing a gi. However, after a good amount of time, people began to find ways to neutralize another combatants BJJ. ✌️🤙
Still effective but people want to find "the best" when the reality is it is all dependent on the practitioner. There's no one pill cure for all illness; no perfect art.
The reason why people still think BJJ "hasnt been dethroned" in MMA is the propaganda machine to promote BJJ. Especially with Joe Rogan at the commentators chair and some BJJ gyms just handing out black belts to famous fighters to prop themselves up.
Brazilian jujitsu don't exist. there is only Pankration. a good example is if someone were to take you and bring you to another country and name you. Stacy, would that make you any different from when you were living in that other country and you were named Ramsey?
Get with the time? You can count yourself lucky if I don't try to learn how to wrestle from the Papyrus Oxyrhynchus III 466. Okay that was mostly sarcasm I can't read ancient Greek. I am mostly a HEMA guy I know weapons martial arts really focus of this channel but wanted to hear what your take on Ringen and/or the old Greek wrestling manuscripts are.
I had an idea for an eventual video topic. Are guys who devote years to working out purely for asthetic reasons insecure? I made a joke about a co workers skinny legs because he was a body builder who had only focused on his upper body. Dude got really mad. I wasnt expecting it.
@@jameskruger9278 They both cross train. Demian Maia beat olympic level wrestler Ben Askren. Burns isn't a total BJJ guy and Khamzat isn't a pure wrestling guy.
I wholeheartedly agree.
When I went to an MMA class, as a BJJ blue belt, I thought I’d be able to hold my own.
I was wrong, and got absolutely mauled by wrestlers and kick-boxers because of my limited training in striking and wrestling.
There’s a reason why it’s called *Mixed Martial Arts* .
Ha, I had a similar experience. I'm an ex-Judoka, went to my mates MMA gym and sparred with a semi-professional cage fighter, and he owned me.
It doesn't matter the fighting skill of the fighter. It matters how good they are at it. what matters is the physical ability of the other fighters
not everybody's made for this
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed so you have no skill and suck at cage fighting...
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed I’m not sure I agree. I’m pretty good at BJJ, but have huge gaps in my striking and wrestling games. I doubt more BJJ is gonna improve my striking. It depends on how skilled the fighter is in the given field - and BJJ is only one piece of the puzzle
@@patrickrichard5948 My point is that when you are really good at what you do, not many people can beat you.
I am more of a striker than a grappler. But if you look at let's take for example. Khabib he stuck to what he knew best because he knew that that was where he was unstoppable. If he would have got up and started to strike like let's say Ronda Rousey did then he would probably lose just like a Rousey did.
If you want to improve on your striking you have to work on it. Striking is mostly about timing. Do striking exercises that will improve your timing.
I tend to agree. BJJ was so successful because grappling was so under-developed in that era. Grapplers have an egregious advantage against a striker who doesn't know how to grapple. But now that every fighter is going to learning grappling and drilling takedown defenses and how to defend themselves against a grappler, that advantage has been enormously reduced; to the extent that striking, BBJ and wrestling are all about equally important in a fighter's toolset. Otherwise, every single fighter would just be learning BBJ and nothing else.
If Royce Gracie, as revolutionary as he was in his own era, was to enter into the UFC today with the toolset he had in the 90s, he'd lose 100% of his matches. Because the game has changed. He helped change it.
Wrestling is the most prolific combat sport in America. It has never been underdeveloped. The Gracies specifically avoided other grappling disciplines in the UFC during their involvement with the promotion.
@@IncredibleMD Let me rephrase: It was undeveloped in the fledgling sport of mixed martial arts. I'm not saying that grappling didn't exist, heck, Ramsey even makes that point about wrestling in this very video, just that there weren't a lot of people using grappling in mixed martial arts at the time.
Agree. Also, it's more sport-oriented today too. Time limits, rounds, certain limitations on holds and strikes. Back in the earliest days of the event, groin strikes were allowed, hair pulling was allowed, and smothering was allowed. Small joint manipulation and eye-gouging or biting were the only prohibited offensive maneuvers I can recall, and every fight had no time limit. You won either by someone giving up or getting knocked out or put to sleep. That gives also big advantages to submission grapplers, because they can really take their time to work the opponent down, stay out of range for as long as needed, or whatever. Fights were often very boring back then and guys might go 15 minutes straight before anyone was declaired a winner. Guys would take someone down and then be on the ground for 10 minutes looking for a choke or arm bar. The ref never stood anyone back up.
@@seraphinaaizen6278 Again, that's because the Gracies didn't really let other grapplers into the UFC when they controlled it. Ken Shamrock was one of the few exceptions, and look at how much trouble he gave Royce.
This 💯🔥🔥 even the smallest amount of grappling skill used to be enough to get past most opponents because everyone thought fighting was about standing and banging nowdays most people can grapple at some level
Saw an example of this recently in an amateur fight. A primarily BJJ competitor got beat by a younger more explosive fighter in an MMA match. Now said BJJ guy is tough and didn't just wilt under the pressure of punches (I might) and his wrestling is mucho above average than your typical BJJ player (we're working on it), he still got beat because the other fighter didn't want to engage on the ground. The younger guy basically Chuck Lidelled the grappler every time he got taken down. MMA has evolved to the point where the guys that can't integrate will never make it to the top. There are no styles.
As my MMA coach says: you can do bjj off your back all you want in your amateur matches, but that doesn't work against when you fight a dagestani or chechen wrestler
that's great but does he expect you to be on top of them cus that doesn't really work either
@@robbybee70 nah but he puts a very high emphasis on the wrestling when standing up
I would like to make the one clarification that wrestling does also give you a way to fight in less than ideal situations; getting the fuck out of it.
Grappling with BJJ guys, who WANTED to be on the ground built very bad habits in me.
So when I trained against wrestlers, they were consistently just able to explode out in one direction or another.
Of course, I'm not saying BJJ doesn't have reversals and such, but there just isn't such an explosive disengagement or reset.
I think the ability to simply get back up is a very valuable skill, outside of BJJ tournaments.
It's always been insane to me how BJJ took judo ground techniques without also taking the techniques to put people on the ground. But if they took that as well... they'd just be judo.
@@IncredibleMD On the other hand, it could be argued that if Judo didn't remove leg grabs and introduce a bunch of restrictive gripping rules on top of that, and allowed guard pulls and a longer time on the ground, it would start looking more like BJJ. Kosen Judo is an excellent example of how this evolution in the other direction is also possible. I definitely agree, though, BJJ gyms could do a little more with their standup training in general.
@@IncredibleMD it's all called Pankration . WTF are you talking about
@@iandougherty215 Oh, yeah, I'm a big critic of modern sport Judo as well. We need to return to tradition and teach all of what Kano Jigoro taught, even if that does make Olympic officials feel it's too similar to wrestling.
But BJJ was incomplete from the concept.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed Pankration doesn’t exist anymore
This is so true. When I transitioned from MMA and decided to focus on "Just Jujitsu", my grappling sucked! In the context of sport bjj. Fast forward a few years and I'm a purple belt, thinking my bjj skills will translate in the cage but then guess what? I sucked at grappling in MMA.
Every time I was under pressure I felt the need to pull into a seated guard position, which is a very bad idea in MMA.
Moral of the story?
BJJ is a game and MMA is fighting. At some point the 2 may cross over but never to the extend where one is synonymous with the other.
I concur!
It’s not that two will crossover eventually, it started out that way then diverged. Wrestlers getting into no gi grappling now might reverse that. In 10 years time no gi and gi bjj will be completed seperate to eachother.
Perfect analogy BJJ is a chess match MMA is a brutal war
@@davemeads859 yeah... I will take the chess match over CTE-fest anyday... but respect to those who do MMA
I see your point, but technically MMA is also a game, just less contrived than most. "Real" fighting is going to be unfair and deadly.
Royce Gracie grew up literally in a rich family who spent a large portion of their time trying to push their name as fighters. He was literally fighting in grappling matches with striking his entire life. It didn't take long for people to catch up.
I can't believe UFC1 is almost 30. That makes me feel old.
I see MMA as an RPG stat sheet. Each phase is a differeng stat. Striking, grappling, ground game, and spacing
to me the 3 horsemen of MMA in that era I'd say were Mark coleman, Don Frye and Dan Severn, I think those 3 set such a high bar in terms of pressure and aggression
They were all doofuses that wouldn't stand a chance lasting one round today
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed different era completely, no comparison
@@PBas-qq4uh a good example of what happened then was they went into the gym's found a bunch of monsters and let them fight.
Something very close to what happened with Eddie Hall
It wasn't a MMA match. It was a circus
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed thanks for the education
@@PBas-qq4uh ha ha ha 🤣👍
Dude from my State , OSU , Kenny Monday , Olympic gold medalist ....was the guy who gave the BJJ crew a run for their money. He even had a system for sale in Black Belt magazine. Stated he could beat them. And took their challenges.
I am from OR also! We have some really good wrestlers coaches in the Northwest(Oregon, Washington, Idaho and Montana). These guys at a high school level are giving collegiate athletes a run as freshmen.
Weird that there are any BJJ schools left with a fool proof system in existence
Of course an olympic level wrestler can smash most BJJ students as most BJJ students are white to blue belts. He is an olympic level wrestler, he's at the highest point in his sport. Put him against ADCC winners and let's see how he does. Put him against BJJ high level guys and he doesn't last.
@@bane3991 show me a Brazilian jiu-jitsu guy that beat khabib
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed Khabib is a MMA fighter. Once you start mixing styles it's no longer style vs style. It's mma vs mma.
Yeah, you just don't see any "single style" fighters that go very far in the UFC anymore. The lesson from Royce Gracie wasn't that BJJ was the best style, it was that no one style is enough.
I like how you made the point of jiujitsu and wrestling often looking similar, sometimes to both the trained and untrained eye. That's often a point we make in our own Sumo training. When we don't have our belts on, what we do doesn't look so different from Greco Roman.
Wrestlers don't pull guard. They don't like being on their back.
It's funny how the nerds think they are special because they know the difference ha ha ha
Oh totally. Sumo without the mawashi, is a different experience. Might look a bit like Greco or No-Gi Judo. Yet, it still retains the Oshi elements. Which is pretty unique. But there are enough international Sumotori that all bring their own native wrestling styles in with them, that sumo is bound to have elements of each when the goal is to win. So an observer is bound to see a flash of this or that.
To Ramsey’s point, Catch Wrestling and no-Gi BJJ do look quite similar. When it’s submission fighting only, maybe a standing or ground initiation preference is the biggest difference at a glance.
What's interesting is the bjj dethroned itself in the states. Alot of schools now are embracing wrestling and working on incorporating it into bjj. Hell even high level guys are focusing on wrestling up from the gaurd. B team and daisy fresh guys have getting alot succuss. (I wonder if it will just be called what it is eventually submission grappling)
If they try to call it anything but 🇧🇷, the Gracies will sue 😆. Not kidding
Didn’t one of the daisy fresh guys just tap on pure shoulder pressure from Gordon ryan?
@@User-54631 bruh 1) it's Gordon fkin Ryan 2) he out wayed Jacob couch by 30-40 pounds I think 3) Jacob is still only a fresh brown belt 4) apparently danaher has been focusing alot on top pressure and smothering.
@Moray Soueid Also they forget that to beat BJJ you first need to learn It
Agreed one hundred per cent. Meanwhile Marcelo Garcia is beating the crap out of all the elite wrestlers making it look easy. Without Jiu Jitsu wrestling is shit its based on strength not skill. Pus they forget that Wrestling take downs are shit in the street. Matt Hughs a wrestler got choked out by BJ pen easy. Marillo Bustamonte took down Matt THE LAW Linland a greco roman wrestler and beat the fuck out of him before knocking him out. The only reason People like wrestling is for take downs which wont work in a street fight. And if wrestling is better then Jiu Jitsu why do Wrestlers Sproll not to get taken down by Jiu Jitsu guys??
Instead of thinking about what's been dethroned, I just look at what unique thing each art brings to the table. Strong wrestlers pick and choose where the battle happens. Strong BJJ people break limbs. Strong boxers punch people in the face, often and repeatedly. Strong thai guys make people fight for every inch of space in front of them. And strong judo people can end the match with a single throw.
WE STAND ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS! love your content Ramsey the q and a are always my favorite.
Dethroned? Bjj is merely a tool and a tool is only as good as the user.
This is about 50% true. But other martial arts or a blend of martial arts i should say, are superior than just learning that one.
More legit tools=more chance to beat one single legit tool
@@hasanagic96 So i compared Bjj to a tool you use and is only as capable as the user can be. I NEVER stated the user can only have 1 tool. Tools have limits otherwise we would only HAVE 1 tool in existence. You can also use tools in conjunction with other tools. Im not "about 50% true". Im 100%. You are arguing with a point I never made nor implied.
@@arewestilldoingphrasing6490 even with ur analogy, the tool is less effective than others, specifically wrestling. For every supper effective bjj guy you have 5 wrestlers who smesh
@@tomjones2056 The tool is less effective than others. I could concede if the tool is broken and or inoperable. But you are saying its less effective than others. Is this the fault of the tool or the user? My statement compares bjj to a tool. I did not say Bjj is the best tool or the most effective. I said it is only as good as the user meaning if it isnt working its more likely the fault of the user because bjj doesnt fight by itself it used by fighters. So a bad user with a great tool is not going to produce great results. You can use tools with other tools thats the idea of mma. That means my original statement still stands
Tools also have different functionality, and some are more generalized, and better at a multitude of tasks rather than being specialized for a single one. A specialized tool can absolutely be useless outside of the intended purpose, and some tools are really just poorly designed. The whole "a style is only as good as the user" really doesn't hold up when some styles are just flat-out superior at producing a more competent martial artist over a shorter period of time.
It's like comparing Judo or Catch Wrestling to BJJ, sure BJJ is great if you can get someone down on the floor, you can't beat it in the ground based submission specialty. But both Judo and CW are much more well rounded, and contain sufficient stand-up grappling in the syllabus that they can essentially neutralize BJJ in its entirety just through takedown defence and offence, let alone that both also give you submission defence and offence. This is why wrestling is so dominant in MMA, if you control the plane of the fight, you can basically just prevent a specialist from doing what they want to do. This is also how Sakuraba beat up the Gracie's, with Catch Wrestling.
It's like comparing Modern Boxing to Muay Thai, sure Boxing is really good at one specific style of striking with the fists but Muay Thai is a more generalized striking style that will overall make you a better striker than a Boxer. A Boxer will almost never beat a Muay Thai practioner of a lower skill level, let alone one of a similar level. The user here is largely irrelevant, because the tool is insufficient for the task at hand.
The gym I train my bjj in is mostly a MMA gym so even in bjj class they tend to mention how a position is good for bjj competition or risky for MMA or flat out bad idea in real world
Awesome video Coach! This definitely also addresses the question I had about grappling vs striking. And this absolutely makes sense, to be a complete fighter you need both!
Hey ramsey!!!! Will we be getting a video covering/explaining the falling step, leg spring and the upward surge? Im currently reading championship fighting but struggle to grasp it from what im reading and feel videos are much easier to learn from. I know you saw the comment I left earlier but im impatient and just really need to know if you'll be addressing this.
Thanks alot from your friend and student "Someguy*
I'd like to argue that well rounders are alot more rare and special than specialists ironically, and I'm talking about TRUE well rounders like the real MMA fighter. Not just mr muay thay and bjj, but actually someone who is super fluid. Notice how all rounders like GSP and Fedor are really special? People are weird and are usually biased towards one thing, i am also biased because i love boxing and karate. But that's my problem because i haven't had the feeling of grappling for a long time yet. But well rounders are terrifying to fight because they virtually have no weaknesses and could randomly specialize in any style of his/her choice even mid fight. I aspire to be like them one day.
I think theres a difference between being well rounded and exelling at all aspects of fighting. I would say most fighters nowdays are the former, while the latter will always be very rare. Even if most guys lean towards one aspect or another, rarely anyone is gling to be a sleeping duck in any one area.
GSP and Jones are the exception. How crazy is it that a guy with a karate background would end up outwerstling guys who had wrestled their entire life? Or that jones as a blue belt was destroying black belts in the cage?
@@eldenlean5221 GSP was getting a hard sell on trying to wrestle for Canada at the Olympics.
@Ramsey Dewey (0:24/6:25) Man, you're more patient with peoples questions than most youtubers, with the bonus that you actually respond sometimes. Before we even get into this video, I'd like to make a single statement about early UFC. The best fight I've seen a Gracie in was Royce verses Dan Severn. It was an epic bout I didn't think Royce was going to win, and it went on a ridiculous length for a UFC bout. It established that good wrestling and athleticism could effectively stifle BJJ, and without that one fight MMA would not be the sport it is. :D
A wrestler 3 times royce's size.
Kazushi Sakuraba sealed the deal. 💯
It is crucial that you add a good wrestling foundation to your Jiu jitsu game ! And good striking is a must for MMA
Ive seen this mentality around, often held by peopme who should know better. I think its crazy that weve had decades of tried and tested competition at this point, and people still claim that you can get away with using one single aspect of fighting. I've seen people point to guys like khabib and charles olivera to prove that you dont need striking for example, or Israel adesanya to prove that you dont need grappling. When in reality all of the above have an incredibly balanced game despite being specialist. Khabibs boxing might not look pretty, but its extremely effective for the purposes that khabib uses it for. Charles has an incredible lead hook, and is the perfect example of why front body kicks are ao amazing. And Israel adesanya has incredible take down defense to complement his striking. We are so far past the point where you can get away with being one dimensional is crazy that some peole still believe you can get away with it.
I train BJJ at a gym licenced by the Gracies to teach their style, and what Ramsey said about the striking is spot-on for most other 'sport' Jiu-Jitsu places. But here training Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, keeping striking defense in mind in every position is the mindset the instructors want to drill in to you. We do entire lessons based on blocking punches from the guard, how to control the opponent's body so that every punch takes twice the amount of energy to throw than it would normally. ...And then to submit them once they blow their tank trying to escape or punch. This is all stuff you need to prove you know before you can graduate from white belt - how to intelligently defend against an unskilled opponent, or an opponent with moderate striking knowledge.
Having said that, even though Gracie-style is very well-rounded like that, I wouldn't recommend entering MMA while knowing only that. At the end of the day, it becomes useless if the other guy continually stuffs your takedowns and puts all his effort into keeping the fight standing.
Totally agree with what u said bro, spot on👌.
That aspect of BJJ training I thought really shone in Silva Sonnen 1, Silva was getting hammered but stayed patient, defended where he could to wear Sonnen down and it eventually it paid off. He got lucky as hell sonnen played into his hands at the end by being too aggressive but his fight plan got him there.
I'm considering joining a bjj gracie gym, what are your thoughts on the gracie combatives? Is it real bjj or just a watered down version for office workers?
@@HtheKing in my opinion I would do it bro. I’m not sure 🤔 about Ramsey’s thoughts on matter but I trained individual Combat arts mostly & saw first hand Gracie JJ-
My opinion =
100% if u can do MMA or each art eg Muay Thai, Wrestling, BJJ, bit of Boxing = then these 2 options are always best options (IMO). But if u don’t have the time in life to do all these & only for 1 Art, I would 100% go for something like Gracie JJ, as they teach u about avoiding as little strikes as possible, distance management & even some SIMPLE takedowns. Or even Sambo, although pros & cons here too. I’d love to know your thoughts Ramsey as you are much more proficient than I am to answer this this question. Thanks 🙏
@@PHATT_TV I I'm definitely going to do bjj but I'm more interested in it for self defense purposes rather than sports jiu jujitsu so gracie sounds like the best choice. Have you heard of the SBG mma gyms? I was also considering taking their bjj beginner classes instead. Just need to decide which is better
Same conversation happened in the 1700's about dueling. This is later but a great read in your lock down. THE LAST OF THE NEW ORLEANS FENCING MASTERS | The Double Dealer
There is like one bjj specialist champ in the ufc and he got there with improve striking.
Currently brazil holds the most belts in the ufc and they are all black belts in bjj
I'd say most of the BJJ guys coming to MMA losing because of how much gi emphasis their original sport have. You need to be able to scramble and create openings in MMA, rather than stall.
That's is not the main reason, samboist translate very well to mma.
@@Todo_fighting Kurtka is way different than gi. Much less friction when on the ground.
@@paulbadman8509 the grips, the sambo one even has extra grips on the shoulders, sambo is basically old school judo with some different submissions.
@@paulbadman8509 its more the mentality and the scoring point system, in wrestling, sambo, judo being on the bottom isn't beneficial, in bjj the literary sit on their butts.
@@Todo_fighting there are no pants, which make passing guard easier, and so scrambling becomes important when on the ground.
I have been flying the Wrestling flag in these comments for a while now, it's good to see wrestling is getting its due respect and educating those BJJ practitioners that have been deniers all these years. Wrestling IS the main ingredient in the sport of MMA, period
Yep, it’s been known since ancient greece. Still need all the pieces of the puzzle, but there’s a clear deficit when one MMA fighter doesn’t understand wrestling and the other does.
Wrestlers? LMFAO Go watch Marcelo Garia destroying Wreslers. Ty for the laugh it was fun
@@badtrekee4348 you sound like an ignorant kid. Ignorant meaning you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, it's common knowledge son now walk upstairs out of the basement and smack your mom square in the mouth for producing such an idiot, and tell her to wash her stinking ass before she comes back over to my house
People buy into marketing nonsense too easily, it's "Bruce Lee invented MMA" again
6 out of the 8 male UFC champions are BJJ black belts
Now a master of Ameri-Do-Te crossed with Ti Kwan Leep (The Frantics) would be unstoppable.
The question you are answering isn't formulated clearly. In order to be de-throned, you have to be the king or queen. Is BJJ the king of MMA? No. Does anyone who wants to be competitive in MMA have to absolutely master 'submission grappling', in addition to striking? Yes. And be able to blend the two well, a-la-GSP.
I guess it was dethroned ultimately because of the unification of dresscode giving the gi-players a lot of headaches vs less specialized generalistic fighters from a kickboxing/shootwrestling background. Then again, at the time, K1 was just way more successful and exciting whereas matches in the UFC were either very short knockouts or long lasting bjj constrictions (technically interesting but obscure and alien to the average viewer coming from boxing/kickboxing) with little interesting striking in my opinion. Personally i think it was Chuck Lidell who best represents this formalisation from a niche BJJ family tournament and Gracie club promotion to a proper show with its own fighting style. This is where the UFC edges out this repertoire of almost cartoonish, larger than life figures. (not to lessen the previous contenders contribution of course...)
the answer depends on what is considered to be the 'throne' in this instance
if it's being looked at as the only pivotal style, yah that throne is shared by a lot of styles, if you mean, the submission grappling style used by the majority of fighters in the UFC, realistically BJJ does sit on that throne and will for the forseable future
if we consider like overall grappling I'd argue that Wrestling is on the throne instead but again, it's all down to the definition of what the 'throne' is
Coach dead on again. Grappling alone is not enough nowadays to compete in MMA. I have gotten lots of control skill from grappling (20+yrs in Tai chi pressure tested vs wrestlers and MMA and BJJ ametures) but adding in the striking has become a necissary part of completing the Taiji journey to full fighting) We have in our Taiji many striking and power generation methods not seen much anymore. When I do grappling in practice I try to make sure I am setting myself up to strike and protecting myself from striking even if the training partner doesn't always know I am working on these skills when we roll. We in Taiji have a trained skill called pushing/sticking hands that is practiced in sets with cooperative people before it later becomes a free form grappling skill. What we get out of push hands depends on what we are trying to work on. In the beginning it's about uprooting or controlling the other person while keeping them from doing the same to you. Later once you are good at protecting your root while disrupting theirs then you can choose what to focus on. I spent several months just working on traps when rolling with people and I got really skilled at covering 2 hands with one while leaving a striking hand open. Next level is to bring in the striking to be live under pressure and some getting hit either in sparing or in cage. It's been an interesting journey and I have enjoyed much of the advice and inight on this channel as Ramsey is very open minded and I am a huge kungfu/MA nerd as well.
Ramsey slow down haha. Got a notification your new video as i was watching this one (which is a minute old when I clicked on it (
very well put
How can I make Judo work for mma? And how do I practice those favourable techniques while doing Judo?
You crosstrain in striking and ground fighting because only when you know what the other guy can do can you apply your art in its intended niche. Personally, I think Judo has some great takedowns to add to a fighters game.
Remember this - Sumi Gaeshi instead of pulling guard. If you succeed with this sacrifice throw - you're on top, if you fail - you basically pulled guard.
@@qowkerf judo has already ground fighting
It is not 1993 anymore!
What's the best bjj to train for fighting? Tenth Planet? Maybe what the Greg Jackson curriculum would teach?
I’m a fan of Mark Coleman but he was on the sauce for sure.
The Gracies did not invent MMA they invented the UFC, Maurice smith invented MMA when he showed one dimensional grapplers that real fights have real damage and if you fail the takedown they have no way to defend punches or kicks.
I walked in to my first BJJ class with nothing but high school wrestling and 15 years of watching MMA, I was already mauling fellow white belts and even some blue belts. There’s a reason the Gracie’s kept American wrestlers away from the old UFC tournaments as long as they could
And then you woke up from ur wet dream. I was beating wrestlers after a few months. Royce 170 pounds fought Ken 220 pounds and won the first time next he fought Dan Serven who was much heaver and bigger then Ken and won. And Royce wasnt concidered a great Jiu Jitsu player from anyone who knew anything about Jiu Jitsu. Royce got choked out in seconds when he fough ishmil from the Carson gracie team aka the future brazilian Top team.
@@badtrekee4348 lol Gracie has 29 years won a ufc title.
Sakaroba with his catch wrestling beat the Gracies so
I really like how you talk about bjj as the "opposite" of wrestling, because I've always felt the same way since I started bjj after my wrestling experience. I view wrestling as primarily tactical as in the game of chess, while I feel like bjj is significantly more "strategical" as in the chinese game "go".
In wrestling you have one way to win--pin your opponent's shoulders to the ground. In bjj, you can submit almost any part of the body. And this goes in line with wrestling being tactical (i.e. position based) because your goal is already defined, but in bjj you can more or less set your goal for your self by deciding what body part to attack at any given time.
Lots of great jiu jitsu in prime tho back in japan... during those days..
Wrestling was used from. Ancient greece until now. It is very good. Martial art in close range. When you watch different decades every new style came up. First was kiclboxing than bjj came than wrestling and now muay thai and sanda will conquer the next decade. Martial Art is in development. And changing.
Sakuraba. Pride.
Hi Ramsey, Thank you for your videos. I've been listening to your insights for years and very much appreciate them. Do you think there's a distorted preference towards striking in the UFC because it's more entertaining to watch? And that wrestling, in a percentage sense, would prevail if people weren't watching? One of your comments suggested that there was a natural evolution towards wrestling in the early UFC, once everyone knew a bit of everything. I know it's a daft question, because fighters favour different skill sets, but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at. I'm thinking of Khabib and GSP.
BJJ however is the one that still trains wearing cloths though.. so you can make an argument that it’s back to its intended purpose of being good for self defence. (Yes you need to adapt tactics for situation and number of opponents, the possibilities of being slammed etc.) But even something as basic as being effective at standing grip breaks could be the difference between escaping a violent encounter or being dragged to your doom.)
Also hey Ramsey I’ve been getting out there and training for nearly a year now! Look how much better my comments have gotten! 😂🤙
BJJ by it’s own admission acknowledges it’s not good (at all) as a stand alone for self-defense. It Hard fails against multiple attackers by it’s own admission. Dunno who told you anything else.
I don't know. I was always taught that we train to fight, but only if there's no other option, and to avoid situations that could put us in a position to have to, as much as possible.
I've been training (admittedly off and on) in Shito-ryu since 1994. Although I began because I was bullied, I've come to the conclusion that martial arts, regardless of style, should be to protect oneself, those one loves, and those who cannot protect themselves. I've never understood what honor there is in sport fighting. I do enjoy watching Machida Sensei though, but I think that largely has to do with his traditional Karate (Shotokan) background.
Marco Ruas was a microcosm of things to come. He was ahead of his time.
Bjj can never be dethroned because it's always gonna be an important aspect of MMA just like boxing, kick boxing and wrestling
Even in the modern UFC, the top guys are usually wrestlers.
Wrestlers had to learn how to avoid submissions before they could dominate. They are tough guys (I wrestled a little in HS) but until they learn how to protect their necks, etc... They are easy to beat by BJJ. So wrestlers had to learn some BJJ before they could compete. The athletic caliber of the wrestlers that came later was superior to the BJJ athletes who were inferior. Of course, rules were changed to favor the strikers (and wrestlers) that had some part in it as well. But wrestlers are hard to take down and do have escape skills. Basically, BJJ is geared for less athletic persons. A weak person cannot be a good wrestler it is strength on strength (all things being equal).
Try like the Wrestlers started learning Jiu Jitsu. Go watch Marcelo Garcia shit on every wrestler he has grappled.
@@badtrekee4348 I remember when I was taking BJJ and some young HS wrestlers started coming to class. They were young and strong but kept extending their necks, arms, etc... Easy to beat even though they were far superior athletes to most of us in the class. They quit out of frustration. It was just a little too different and they didn't want to spend the time learning BJJ.
This can't be true! Rener Gracie fought a FRACKING panther with BJJ!!!
Only 1% exist that are a well-rounded fighter
there is no MMA organization that has a complete true MMA fighter. like I said, there's only 1% that exists.
The only true fighters that existed that new all styles of fighting were the Greeks because they were the ones that invented them
6:14 If bjj doesnt factor in much in mma success, which combat sports do? Im thinking Muay thai and wrestling.
I did 5 years of karate, 2 years of boxing, 1 year of grappling. When can I win an mma fight?
BJJ is an important tool and wrestling is the number one base for success in MMA.
Not True.
In MMA fights start on their feet, not on their knees
So the first thing and foundation you should learn is kickboxing. Because there's two arts in one
When you learn how to kickbox and get a belt in that and consider yourself a well-rounded striker, then you can go to a grappling organization and learn how to do that and compete and win a belt in wrestling and consider yourself a well-rounded wrestler.
Then with the combined expertise of kickboxing and your wrestling, you can then consider yourself a true MMA fighter.
Because what's going to happen to you is you will think you are an MMA fighter like Tyrone Woodley and Conor McGregor.
Just went into one aspect of mixed martial arts and were both humiliated.
The only true MMA fighters of this planet that ever existed were the Greeks.
The only true MMA of this planet is Pankration.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed That's a nice theory but evidence shows that wrestles have always been on top as a base, apart from the first few UFCs with Royce.
That doesn't mean that kickboxing isn't a good base, in fact it probably does better than BJJ but it's not the best. Also I think boxing slightly outweighs kickboxing.
@@nosson77 it's mixed martial arts so you would rather go into kickboxing because you need to kick not only punch.
The only difference between kickboxers and boxers is there head movement.
Kickboxers will have a more stiff upright position to where boxers will have a more hunched over position which leaves you open for kicks. So to do, boxing is actually going to put you in a position where you're in danger of getting kicked. Boxers duck to avoid a punch.
So in MMA fights you need to be aware of knees and kicks and this is why boxing is not the best when it comes to MMA.
Boxing is the best striking style when it comes to the hands.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed
You're getting hung up on your theories. But they are irrelevant if they contradict reality. Even if they agree with reality you would need to test out in practice if your theory is true.
Fact is boxers do very well in MMA (although not the best) why that is? I'm not sure. Maybe the level of competition is higher I'm the countries that most mma fighers are likely to come from and being highly trained in one fighting sport maybe more valuable then not so highly trained in another. But for what ever the reason boxing does well in MMA. But tje difference between boxing and kickboxing is slight so it's not a major deal. But wrestling beats them all.
@@nosson77 I am that one percent Bro. I do it all. I'm Greek we invented this shit.
What I say is Gold.
A pure boxer will have a harder time than a kickboxer to Make the switch to MMA.
Number one a boxer's legs are not even trained to kick or take a kick.
A boxer's not even trained to look out for head kicks or knees.
My theories are not theories. They're facts. Everything I've said on this, whatever you want to call it channel is 100% facts.
Love your channel.
I'm a moderately out of shape man (6', ~200 lbs. - probably more fat than muscle) turning 39 this year, and I'm finally at a place where I want to learn how to fight competently for self-defense. I probably won't really have time to cross-train in different styles, so I'm looking for recommendations on a single style that will get me there.
[[As an aside, I do understand that there are variables such as local availability and the quality of instruction (i.e. real vs McDojo), but I'm looking for a general recommendation.]]
I've been considering BJJ, Judo, and Freestyle Wrestling (if I can find a place that actually teaches it to adults), but I may be completely missing something. I've also thought about straight boxing, but I have gathered that grappling *tends* to outperform striking. Again, maybe I'm missing something.
Any advice from you (or the community) would be most appreciated and welcome.
Again, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. Thank you for your genuine dedication to helping people improve themselves.
It factors in every single time you get the td.
I’m a karate guy but I slightly disagree. Otherwise how do you explain the success of Damian Maia?
How do you explain Bas Rutten becoming King of Pancrase with his rudimentary grappling?
Well said
I mean anyone who had brothers knows how to grapple a little bit, it's the basics of every teir of fighting.... But I bet even the Gracies would have issues trying pure bbj against modern fighters who's been studying for decades to counter bjj takedowns. Grappling was a glaring hole in every fighting system, one that modern martial arts have quickly adjusted for.
while yes, mma or the ufc as it were are not bjj. the first ufc event didnt go down as you explained either, there were actually several grappling arts in attendance at the time including wrestling.
It's called mixed martial arts for a reason. Muay Thai, BJJ and Wrestling is all you need for MMA.
"Gracie Hunter" Kazushi Sakuraba.
I’ve been watching and enjoying your channel for quite awhile now. Random question, do you still train BJJ?
Yep. For the last 15 years non stop.
On my personal MMA Mt. Rushmore, I have Randy Couture, Fedor, Spider Silva, GSP, and Khabib. Only one BJJ guy, and he was an elite Muay Thai striker to boot. My old school favorites were Bas, who was Kyokushen, kickboxing and Muay Thai, and of course Gracie. But Matt Hughes wrestled Gracie into retirement. In what universe did BJJ ever dominate MMA? But did a pure BJJ guy end Fedor's legendary run? Myth. Werdum is also a black belt in Judo and Muay Thai. The BJJ guys can't exclusively claim him.
GSP is also a BB in BJJ alongside Anderson, trained a lot with renzo and John danaher
"In what universe did BJJ ever dominate MMA?" when the UFC first came around that's what happened, jiu jitsu dominated. There was also the Gracie challenge and martial art vs martial art back in the day; BJJ dominated.
No single martial art dominates MMA because MMA is its open thing.
Google who the first Pride champion was. Go watch Marcelo Garcia destroying wreslers on here
yep i agree,its been dethroned like so many superior arts have been dethroned
I read the question as "BJJ is currently the best bottom position and submission martial art. Will another bottom position and submission martial art ever come along and replace it, or will it evolve?"
How many people with BJJ base are top level in top 5 in UFC rn? There are more people with striking base and wrestling base. Also a lot of wrestlers have adapted their wrestling to neutralize BJJ. Oliveira’s submission are very good because he beats you on the feet and spams subs attempt till you give him something. BJJ is great tool but it doesn’t help as a primary base.
You have to keep in mind that there are far more wrestlers in the world than BJJ guys. Just about every school in America has a wrestling program for free.
BJJ is a great base to have but it won't give you everything.
I would like to see the 90s come back that was true mixed martial arts didnt matter what style you trained you went in the cage if you where brave enough now in UFC u can only og in the cage if you train ufc or mma no kung fu no ninjitsu no other martial arts there may be combinations these days in UFC but the old MMA was the real version of mortal combat
I mean, the more exotic styles in the early UFC were borderline freak shows to pad the roster, they were always fated to be weeded out by the actually dedicated practices. For kungfu specifically, you can actually find lots of MMA fighters with a sanda competition background, especially in ONE FC. If you want to see people representing exotically named kungfu styles, nothing's stopping them, they just have no reason to risk their mcdojo business getting knocked out.
@@MynameisBrianZX no doubt but its rare to see even full contact karate in ufc these days there maybe 1 or 2 guys who do full contact karate that compete in UFC
Is an art dethroned if everyone who is a well rounded fighter trains in it?
(This is the tl,dr version of my other comment! 😂)
BJJ is only one of many grappling options
@@Chraan and yet almost everyone in mma trains in it for their submissions and ground techniques.
@@judosailor610 3 of the 4 current UFC champions are wrestlers, think again.
@@Chraan Wrestling doesn’t use submissions. Where do you think they learned submissions? They learned it from BJJ. You don’t think they have BJJ coaches at their gyms? You clearly didn’t understand my initial comment either.
@@judosailor610 Pal if you think wrestling has no submissions then I overestimated you a lot. Sorry. That is something you could have even googled.
Eh, understand everything Ramsey is saying here, and nothing he said was technically incorrect. But I still think the answer is a little bit misleading.
Yes, as a standalone art, BJJ is not enough to win in most MMA competitions. But I’m not sure that means it has been dethroned, because you could make that same statement about any standalone art! And when the UFC was a style versus style competition, Brazilian jujitsu was the style that dominated. And were someone to put on a style versus style MMA competition today, or even walked into a high-level Brazilian jujitsu gym to take “the Gracie challenge“ (having trained in only a single style of MA) I don’t think things would go any differently than they did in the 90s.
Furthermore, even if “well-rounded fighters“ are dominant today, training in Brazilian jiujitsu is an essential part of being a “well-rounded fighter.“ And while I’m sure there’s probably a few exceptions (most likely among people that train in another solid submission art like catch wrestling or judo) basically no one is training MMA without training some jujitsu. You can choose from among a half dozen solid striking arts for your stand up game. But for the submission game, 90% of the people out there are training jiujitsu. That doesn’t sound very dethroned at all. It sounds like it was so dominant everyone realize they had to learn it!
When the UFC was a style versus style competition (that didn't allow other grappling styles to compete), Brazilian jujitsu was the style that dominated. Remember: Gracie LOST the very first Gracie Challenge, and HANDEDLY, to judo.
The form of grappling done in MMA much more closely resembles traditional Kodokan judo, the type that Maeda was teaching in Brazil (back when it was called Kano Jujutsu) and not modern bastardized Olympic Judo, than pure BJJ.
What separates Ronda Rousey shoulder throwing someone into an armbar from "BJJ"?
... Well... because we treat BJJ as different, for cultural reasons. But BJJ is nothing more than Kodokan Judo ne-waza. The Gracie challenge was literal advertisement.
@@IncredibleMD Pedantic, but somewhat correct. Also irrelevant, because (as much as I like to kid my BJJ brothers and sisters about naming a technique after a judoka that beat them 😂) BJJ and judo have grown a lot farther apart since their inception. They are similar arts that share a history, but they are not the same. Also “they didn’t allow other grapplers to compete” is a lie often told to try and discredit the results. Ken shamrock was in UFC 1! UFC 2 had Remco Pardoel A JUDOKA. SMH. You lose credibility when you make ridiculous claims like that.
@@judosailor610 Compare the number of non-BJJ grapplers to the BJJ grapplers. They let some in, sure, but only just barely enough to fend of claims that they weren't allowing in non-BJJ grappling styles, as you've fallen prey to yourself.
@@IncredibleMD There was only one representative of Gracie JJ in the first couple UFCs, which was Royce. Don’t mean to be insulting, but do you actually know anything about the subject? You are literally spitting falsehoods. That’s two now.
@@judosailor610 There was only one representative of BJJ, sure, but there was only one other representative of ALL OTHER GRAPPLING STYLES.
And the only reason there was only one BJJ practitioner is that they didn't want each other stepping on his toes. You only need one BJJ player when your goal is to show BJJ beating up a ton of strikers.
Someone forgot to give Paul Craig the memo.
Dan Frye did it.
Wrestling in High school was the best training for any combat situation
When you are someone like BJ Penn who is top level at wrestling and BJJ. Then you have a monster.
No clue, don't keep up with UFC. I do personally feel that actual jujitsu is alot more practical than BJJ is outside of competition but could be just me 🤷
Sakuraba
Been saying this for years...
Wrestling is a good skill. But, striking is what makes a star. The best female fighter is Valentina Shevchenko. The best male fighter is Israel Adesanya. The heavyweight champion is Francis Ngannou. None of these fighters are grapplers. It’s really quite simple. Valentina said it took her a few months to learn grappling, but years to master striking. Sorry, to all the grapplers out there, but you had a good run. We had to learn grappling to allow us to do our strikes unfettered. We did. Now, We don’t have to be compliant and stay on the ground. We just get up. Matt Hughes fought Gracie, and it never even went to the ground. Two of the greatest grapplers, and Hughes just kicked his legs out from under him and that was the fight. Bottom line is you have to have some skills in all areas, but if you want to be a super star, that people will pay to watch, you better learn to strike. That’s why grappling was eliminated in boxing, kickboxing and the like. Not because it was ineffective, but because very few people really want to see it. So, we completely lost that skill set because we stopped training for it as it had nothing to do with professional fighting sports. Then the UFC came along and we had to learn it again. It’s nothing new. Boxers, such as Jack Dempsey used to wrestle to stay in shape. He even wrote a book of combat self defense for the coast guard with a well known wrestler of the day. I have a copy of that book. So the long and the short of it is, we had to learn it, so that we never need to use it. Thanks for the video.
Valentina is a judo bb.
🥊
BJJ fanboys typically feel that it is a complete system for all situations (in or out of the ring). It's so hard to convince them that it's only small part of a skillset you need to be a complete fighter.
What BJJ guy is saying it's a complete system for all situations? Before going into MMA I was a BJJ guy and never heard that 1 time in any place I trained at.
@@bane3991 BJJ isn't even a complete system for grappling, though.
@@IncredibleMD BJJ has all the ground work and take downs. What else are we missing?
@@bane3991 If that were true, BJJ would look a lot more like Judo (even modern sport Judo). Being hunched over like a BJJ player would be a huge mistake if all of Judo's throws and sweeps were on the table.
@@IncredibleMD You can use judo in BJJ. We learn judo and wrestling in BJJ. But now in modern BJJ we focus more on wrestling because it's the best way to take someone down, judo is inferior so that is why BJJ guys are more hunched over, it's easier to take people down and defend against the take down. Back then, in the 90s and before judo was the more preferred method of take downs for jiu jitsu guys but it has changed in recent years. You still learn judo but it takes a major back seat now.
Please don't take this comment as a complaint, but I would like to say your voice recording suffer from some clicking noise as of late. It seems to be not on my side, so I wanted to let you know in case this kind of comments is welcome.
Catch wrestling >>bjj
Yeh there aren’t really any good catch wrestlers. People who call themselves that are either just wrestlers or No Gi BJJ black belts who don’t like the gi system.
@@eveningstar7812
I think it also has to do with the fact that catch wrestling isn't really popular compared to bjj or olympic wrestling (at least in Europe, which is where i live)
Perhaps it is time for us combat sport fans and practitioners to look back at all the hype and marketing that the BJJ community pushed on the rest of the world. Isn't it time to correct the view of what is truly effective? The BJJ leaders told everyone their art was the best and the most effective. Now that 30 years have passed, history shows their art has been demolished by strikers and wrestlers and has almost disappeared from MMA. If we rank the essential skills in MMA, we find that Groundfighting is the least effective and the least used skill in MMA. It ranks last after striking defense and offense, clinching skills, takedown skills, throwing skills, and riding (ground control) skills. Submission holds are rarely seen in MMA anymore because everyone knows the basic counters and blocks for them. What does this all mean? It means they completely misrepresented the value and usefulness of their art. The techniques of boxing and wrestling haven't changed since the 90's, yet now we see their techniques are completely dominant. The only reason BJJ is so weak now, and was so dominant before, is that it's no longer a surprise. Now that everyone knows the techniques, we see how risky and unreliable they are against skilled fighters.
We all saw how The Gracie's ran through everybody while wearing a gi. However, after a good amount of time, people began to find ways to neutralize another combatants BJJ. ✌️🤙
Yeah by learning Jiu Jitsu
It was dethroned back in Pride
Still effective but people want to find "the best" when the reality is it is all dependent on the practitioner. There's no one pill cure for all illness; no perfect art.
The reason why people still think BJJ "hasnt been dethroned" in MMA is the propaganda machine to promote BJJ. Especially with Joe Rogan at the commentators chair and some BJJ gyms just handing out black belts to famous fighters to prop themselves up.
Brazilian jujitsu don't exist. there is only Pankration.
a good example is if someone were to take you and bring you to another country and name you. Stacy, would that make you any different from when you were living in that other country and you were named Ramsey?
Get with the time? You can count yourself lucky if I don't try to learn how to wrestle from the Papyrus Oxyrhynchus III 466. Okay that was mostly sarcasm I can't read ancient Greek. I am mostly a HEMA guy I know weapons martial arts really focus of this channel but wanted to hear what your take on Ringen and/or the old Greek wrestling manuscripts are.
bjj has been dethroned but wrestling hasn't been. you can still be elite like ben askren with excellent wrestling.
I had an idea for an eventual video topic. Are guys who devote years to working out purely for asthetic reasons insecure?
I made a joke about a co workers skinny legs because he was a body builder who had only focused on his upper body. Dude got really mad. I wasnt expecting it.
Saitama?
He must not have seen Gilbert burns loose last Saturday
What's your point?
@@nosson77 bjj lost to a wrestler once again
@@nosson77what's your point asking me what's my point,last time I checked I left that comment for the coach.
@@jameskruger9278 So why did you answer? You know your message is public right?
@@jameskruger9278 They both cross train. Demian Maia beat olympic level wrestler Ben Askren. Burns isn't a total BJJ guy and Khamzat isn't a pure wrestling guy.
It will be very funny if people thinks turtle is the best way to survive in MMA.