+Beyond The Trailer I totally agree with everything you said grace I am not a fan boy I like both marvel nd dc I enjoy them but we real fans stuck in marvel nd dc war I don't know why people want to kill dceu ???!! nd i love your videos keep up the great work : )
I understand what you are saying, but here is the thing. Batman (& villains) and Superman are the most well known comic book characters to date and a live-action representation of these characters will attract the devoted fan base right off the bat. That is why I believe that the reason why DCEU movies are receiving box office success is because of the popularity of there top-ranked characters and why they aren't making much more is because of their stories (especially in the third act). The stories are not terrible in the first two-thirds of the movies but they do fall flat in the final one-third. Movies are suppose to be great stories and great characters not just great characters. Another point I would like to address is the comparison of DC movies to Marvel movies more specific is DC solos vs MCU solos. Warner Bros. are using A-Class characters with huge followings to make movies out of, while Marvel Studios were forced to use B- to C-Class characters to make their franchise. Comparing a current Batman movie (which has worldwide devoted fan bases and previous success movie adaptations) against a first ever Iron Man movie (which is far from as popular as Batman with no previous attempted movie adaptations) is very unreasonable considering the many variables that contributed to the Dark Knight trilogy success. My opinion in how comic book movies are rated by both critics and fans for the most part: Critics = Story Fans = Characters
Superman is no where near as popular a character as he was in 1978, nowadays kids want to grow up and become Ironman or Captain America. It's a shame what has become of Superman it's like DC has found a way to tarnish that characters legacy, while giving Batman all the shine.
I agree. BvS is my favourite also. I recently watched both BvS and Civil War. Both are great films and both aren't perfect (no film is) but BvS resonates a lot more with me and I think it was masterfully created.
Suicide Squad has been the best for me. Civil War and BvS [ultimate editon/cut] tied for 2nd place. BvS I had such ungodly expectations for. I hyped it so much in my mind. Realistically it could never have delivered the perfect movie i had concocted in my mind.
Grace, I love all the videos you upload! And it's so fun to sprinkle all these wonderful coverages throughout the day! You are so articulate and well thought out and I'm glad you do such a great job keeping balance in the TH-cam space!
+Beyond The Trailer Grace do you think it's possible for all of the future DC films to get really good reviews because of Geoff Jones. If they do then could they make way over 700 million or even more.
Even after all the awful shit Mel Gibson has said, not gonna lie he still makes good movies, whether he is in them or directing, he picks good projects. I think he can say BvS is not good.
What makes you think that? I would not say that X-Men: Apocalypse was that dark or that Captain America: Civil War was that ligh-hearted. Both those movies came out this year and(I'd say) disproves your theory. Rotten Tomatoes .............................. X-Men: 48% Civil War: 90%
Some comics are excellently written. You should read "The Ultimates by Mark Miller" which a lot of the Avengers movies are based on. The comic is even better IMHO. You should also check out "Y the last man," and "The Watchmen." In fact our lovely Grace was a comic writer.
I think it's because fans want something to work so badly that they will ignore all sorts of things. Once the fandom blinders go on it's hard to convince fans that something isn't the greatest ever.
I think that Suicide Squad is a success simply because it created the movie character of the year - Harley Quinn. The number of women (or men) cosplaying or paying an homage of some sort to Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Jean Grey, Storm, Psylocke and even Wonder Woman *altogether* isn't anywhere as Harley Quinn's. If you ask any person who went to the movie theater summer 2016 what or who they remember, many (even most) of them will say Harley Quinn.
Amen! Solid movies and gems are not the same as a Masterpiece!!! You can really love something without it redefining the film landscape and being the pinnacle of art!! Not that you touched a nerve or anything....
It's not like WB is some poor tiny independent studio. Time Warner is one of the biggest media companies in the world. They have an incredible amount of money, power, and influence.
BatvsSup would be made as much as 1 bil but the media fucked it over spinning the story that dc was trying to copy marvel and wasn't worth watching for some reason
+Donovan Rodriguez Do you know what a masterpiece is? The Godfather is a masterpiece, Shawshank Redemption is a masterpiece, Rocky is a masterpiece, The lion King is a masterpiece, If you put BvS or Man Of Steel at masterpiece level you're biased.
+ShizzTheKid Judgment Day is a masterpiece, The Matrix is a masterpiece, Mad max Fury Road is a masterpiece. If you only put drama movies at masterpiece level and didn't look to other genre than you're more biased than you think.
Ryan I'm really looking forward to Wonder Woman more so than Justice League.Not Gal Gadot but the film as a whole plus I really love Chris Pines work as an actor in star trek,smokin aces etc.
Grace be real both batman v superman and Suicide squad were bad movies and until we acknowledge that they they will keep putting out this garbage and ruining our beloved DC characters
grace I am a DC fan boy I am a 10x bigger fan of dc comics over marvel any day of the week my top 10 favorite superheroes are all dc heroes and I absolutely hate these dceu movies they are awful they completely miss everything that love about these characters
+Joel Henry Yawn* Ignorance... whatever its all an opinion. But... I don't see how a character that is explored more than one way and is approached in film in that certain way, perhaps mixed, can be considered, "The wrong way to do the character" but ok.
+Joel Henry I honestly never saw a person who defended these versions of the character with themes. I have a few times but they all came off as raw. Never explained properly. Regardless those reasons are valid.
Re: The 1979 Superman. Grace, you answered your own question with this one. It was the first big budget superhero movie, and the marketing at the time showed. "You will believe a man can fly". It was that tagline (and the fact that they pulled it off) that took the film to an inflation adjusted billion dollars. I was there...
TO EVERYONE READING THE COMMENTS: Rottentomatoes does not 'give scores'. Saying that a film would do better if only it had a 'better RT score' makes no sense. A whole crowd of critics go to the films then write their opinions of the film they saw in a review. RT collects all those critic reviews on one site and totals up how many of the critics like the film and gave it a favorable review. If many critics liked the film, then the number will show a high percentage point. If only a few liked the film, then the percentage point will be very low. The only thing that controls what the percentage point is, is the quality of the film. If the filmmakers want a 'high RT score' then they have to make a great film. Like Marvel Studios does, like Nolan did with the Daark Knight, Like Kasdan did with Empire Strikes Back, like Spielberg did with Jaws, Hitchcock with Psycho, McTiernan with Die Hard, Cameron With Titanic, Avatar, Aliens & Terminator, del Toro with Hellboy, Tarantino with Pulp Fiction, Scott with The Martian, on and on and on. It's not so hard.
***** Maybe for A Zackass like you but to the general public, the reverse is true. But keep telling yourself that. Mention it to Tsujihara when Suicide Squad comes up short in the BO.
Not so much. The DCEU sucks overall. They just are not good movies. Putting aside the 'fandom' concerns... There are plot holes, HORRIBLE 'dialogue,' grimy looking shots... They are just plain bad.
***** I'll grant you a few plot holes in Civil War. Where were the grimy shots? Can you point out where the dialogue got schlocky? Granted, nothing can compare to "Save...... Martha."
***** First, I'm not "crying." Second, the Martha scene was pure shit. Even the people who liked the movie should admit that. Most already have. Third, where in Civil War did 'cap cry over Bucky and do the same thing'? ~ answer, he didn't. You pulled it straight from your ass.
I agree. Especially when being fair about Keaton's era. Back in that day, we couldn't have had the films we have today. Keaton paved the way. Keaton did a lot for super hero films and with that said, it's much like say, The Joker character. NO ONE can beat what Jack Nicholson did. PERIOD! Jack was... omg just perfect. BUT at the same time, THAT JOKER wouldn't survive in today's era. Ledger's? Wow.. what a performance. Classic and true to comics? No it wasn't... but the performance was awesome. So, with due respect to each Joker, even Leto's incarnation, The Bat, The Joker etc, what we've gotten so far, were perfect for what we needed at the time... except Let's Joker... and though I do NOT like the grill, the "new 52" is it? look.. not a fan, BUT, I do not blame Jared solely for what we got. They cut the character and didn't let him shine... and for that I think they ruined it> and not just because it was left on the floor, because I think it was ruined from the get go because I THINK... they knew they were gonna do this from the beginning. I think they (studio, execs etc) were afraid. They were afraid to take on the Joker and fail. Now.. Batfleck. I really wanted him to do well... and I am 100% positive I am not biased in saying this, but I think I like his Batman the best. Now I know, some of the scenes that made him great were not just Ben's doing, it was Zach and Producer's deciding what angles and such would be best... what filter, to make it dark etc.... BUT... Ben pulled it off. I think he knocked it out of the park. His build, his suit to enhance the bulky look, etc. The suit design, the cowl design, all fit almost.. not perfectly, but almost perfectly. For this, I am definitely super excited to see the Stand-Alone Bat film coming up!!
how can you compare, guardians of the galaxy and deadpool with suicide quad? neither of the marvel movies had as much hype as suicide squad, almost no one knew about guardians of the galaxy characters, and dead pool wasn't that popular too, but damn .... Harley Quinn, the joker, and batman are very well known ! they were much more popular, bringing much more people to the cinema.
People wanted Suicide Squad to be rated R just like Deadpool, so it was supposed to push the barriers of PG13, and both Guardians and Suicide Squad are about a team of bad guys being heroes.
I get what you mean. Guardians was a team of not well known characters with none of the big name stars/characters from the other films (unlike SS) and Deadpool was not a team movie and was R, theoretically SS should have been aiming to do much better
I'm happy you made this video.... I can't speak for all DC fans and I never claimed DCEU movies are perfect but they are certainly not failures that the media and marvel fans were painting them to be. I was getting worried you were jumping on that bandwagon with your recent videos but I know you always try to remain a fair reviewer and I'm glad you made this video to clear up not only what's going on with the media/fans but your stance on it as well. And Mel Gibson is an idiot and shouldn't talk about things he doesn't know, but at this point I guess we shouldn't be surprised of the things that come out of his mouth
Seeing a lot of "masterpiece" in the comments. masterpiece is not subjective. it's a mark of excellence and achievement that continues to influence artists over an extended period of time. it's not simply a movie that you really like... ESPECIALLY when said movie has not earned respect from other film makers.
I asked to so many DC fan friends of mine about suicide squad and bvs , did you like the storyline but it's so funny how people just avoid the question. Their answer is always well the movie was different but I ask them again what did you think about the storyline, their answer is well it was cool to see harley and deadshot or to batman ans superman in the same movie. DC fans can't just admit that the 2 movie sucked.
Well you gotta admit that their storyline make way more sense and it flows all perfectly not like bvs and suicide when they could have made 3 different movies only with bvs let's say
+Timbo slice Perfectly? Lol that is what I don't get about Marvel fanboys....they truly believe all MCU movies are perfect. Age of Ultron had issues with its storyline. It made no sense that the President got kidnapped in Ironman 3 and no other Avenger thought it was important to show up. GotG was just a fun movie that had several flaws. I could go on and on. Now I enjoyed all of those movies (except GotG) but recognized they had obvious issues. The theatrical BvS had editing issues not storyline issues. Suicide Squad was obviously changed in the last 3rd of the movie. But I enjoyed both movies. And most people enjoyed the movies.
I am going to say this, the DC Extended Universe is out to a great start. It is now at over 2.2 Billion dollars and counting. It took 5, MCU Movies to earn that amount and these crittics donot want DC to succeed in their movies. But, as how I see it, they are successful big time. We are at each other's throats over this, but all in all, the DC movies are going to be great, that is, Wonder Woman, Justice League and the others. These movies need our support. Peace.
Shadysif2 hours ago These movies need better character development, writing ,directing, casting pretty much everything Marvel does well. ^ At least Booster Gold wont be part of the DCEU now, just wish more DC movies were not tied to the DCEU, we'd have a lot better DC films!
Sorry Grace, but just because a movie makes billions of dollars doesn't mean you're not allowed to think it's a piece of shit. Mel Gibson has every right to call BvS a piece of shit.
Scott Mendelson has a very interesting article about DC being the equivalent to Twilight in how the fans behave and how the Boxoffice of the movies perform. With huge openings and huge second weekend drops. Movies that are made to the fans and defended by the fans while critics hate.
NEVER COMPARE DC FILMS TO TWILIGHT!!!!!! OH GOD... Like... jesus... I know your not the one comparing them but... just don't Some people who defend the DCEU make better aurguments than those who defend twilight. Christ its like saying Ghostbusters (2016) was a masterpiece...
+Greice Rodrigues Jesus, it took me a while to find this thread. I didn't get offended. I just that those 2 being compared is like... that's taking it way too far. I will take a look at that article.
its true ,even tho i didnt dislike Suicide squad, but cmon why are they defending the box office? with the millions and millions that the trailer has, and the unbelievable hype the movie had, the movie should have made at least 1.5 billion..
Uh, people compare the first 3 Marvel cinematic UNIVERSE movies with the first 3 DC cinematic UNIVERSE movies. Not the first team movie, or the Nolan universe movies.
I don't see why fans should praise nor hate DC or Marvel based on their box office success. Everyone should just base their opinion on the actual quality of the film, not the money it makes back for the studio.
There are so many factors that play into why a critic or a fan would love or hate a comic book movie now that it's almost impossible to take any critical review or fan evaluation as gospel. From not knowing the source material, to not respecting the storyteller's right to make changes, to mistakenly believing there is only one way to make a good superhero movie, it's frustrating to hear people try to come to some consensus on whether each release is actually a good movie or not. At this point, I'm just going to vote with my wallet and for the time being I enjoy what both Marvel and DC are doing and thank God that we're not getting the same movie over and over again.
Grace, please defend your (please forgive me but) hypocrisy. You just said that BVS is a failure because batman alone made $1billion + at the box office, whereas you uphold Captain america civil war, when the film heavily features Ironman, but made way less than the $1.3 billion stand alone Ironman 3. In fact Civil war in general is a crying shame at the box office. People critiqued BVS for making 872 million, when civil war made only 1.115 billion , with Ironman, most of the avengers, black panther, AND spiderman! Marvel's box office has been steadily going down since fail of ultron, and I see folks already lining up to defend dr strange which is projected to open at $50 million by the industry, by comparing it to antman, which opened to $65 million. DC's fresh movies vs an aging MCU is not a very smart comparison IMHO.
Hey Grace! Coming from a place of no hate or judgement I gotta ask, what did you like in the theatrical BvS film over the 'Ultimate' version of the film? I just want to hear your opinions on it since I personally think the ultimate version at least cleaned up some of the distracted rush that was in the theatrical. Thanks!
I said it before, and I say it again. Grace I have been following you since 2007. Many many times I disagreed with your point of views, and the way you were conducting your channels, but you have truly matured as a presenter and in the way you state your opinions. I'm really happy to see the way you are growing. You have become really respectful or everyone's points of views, and now you see news from every angle and not just yours. Its a true delight to watch your videos, when you are no longer trying to create controversy, but to state facts, and count everyone's opinion and position in a topic. I'm really looking forward to discover how much more you can grow as a person and as a presenter.
Hi Grace! I'm a huge fan of all your videos, thank you for all that you do! I have a viewer question for you! Ryan Potter (a young actor known for his role in Big Hero 6) is currently campaigning to be Tim Drake in Ben Affleck's new Batman movie. Do you think that this could help to add to the diversity in DC films? Do you think he'd make a good Robin?
Evidence? Check. Neutral tone without taking sides? Check. Looking at the situation from all perspectives? Check. Grace? Check. This video is one of the main reasons why I absolutely love the videos on both your channels and I take Grace's reviews/ recommendations/ ideas seriously when it comes to movies and TV shows. Thank you!
Suicide Squad, just like Deadpool and Guardians of the Galaxy, had a pretty well received marketing campaign, so that's probably one reason why its reaching $700 million despite its criticisms.
Its also considered by many to be the greatest comic book film of all time. Combine that with the fact that it is Batman (which has always been a strong brand) and its quite easy to imagine that it achieved a billion on its own merits.
I still enjoy DCEU films. MCU films are just thoroughly more enjoyable in my opinion. Doesn't change the fact I bought the Batman v Superman steelbook (Civil War steelbook was better though).
A terrible movie is a terrible movie no matter how you try to dress it up. In my opinion the DCU deserves better than the mediocre stuff they keep making. Alot of the problem is they keep trying to rush things trying to catch up to Marvel. If they had just taken their time and built up like Marvel did I think it would have been better. Not to mention terrible casting choices. If anyone thinks Gal Gadot looks anything like Wonder Woman from the comics you need to get your eyes checked. I mean they cast two appropriate actors for Superman and Batman. Not to mention her costume is just bad. I shouldn't be surprised though DC has spent decades messing her up why stop now?
1- compairing Nolan Batman movies with MARVEL solo movies is completely unfair. Batman had A LOT of movies before, the JOKER actor died, he is the most famous american superhero. IRON-MAN was nearly a C-LIST in the comics, THOR never had a video-game, CAPTAIN AMERICA is controversial in a lot of foreign countries.
Mel Gibson was referring to superhero films in general, I would assume because he was not raised with american comic books and has no nostalgic connection to the characters. Also, referencing the Donner era Superman films or the Nolan Batman films is not appropriate because I don't believe that anyone has a problem with DC per se. It's the current DCEU films that are the issue, and in particular how they compare in quality to the MCU films. Any Marvel film prior to Iron Man and any DC film prior to Man of Steel shouldn't be a part of the debate.
Marvel fanboys: We prefer MCU movies over DCEU because our movies are more enjoyable. DC fanboys: DCEU HAS MASTERPIECES YOU DONT GET, MCU SUCKS AND IS ONYL FOR KIDS. Grace: Guys calm down, you're embarrasing me as DC fan.
hey Grace I'd like to hear your thoughts on DCEU continuity. In regards to how BvS has a director cut that has Essentially eliminated the theatrical cut, and SS possibly having another cut moving fwd...while one would hope DC stops this practice soon, what is going to be their official continuity cuts? SS is drastically different than what was approved at a script level and BvS is favored overall by fans for its theatrical cut. Do u think WB will choose the theatrical only route or will they have a more complex answer...or even have an answer?
Some DC fans are so delusional, that they completely reject sound logic in favor of absurd conspiracy rhetoric. Rotten Tomatoes doesn't review movies, they simply average the scores of critics across the country. And those same critics independently watch the film, and independently review the film. That means hundreds of critics genuinely hate DC movie.
I say that instead of comparing the first DC films with the Marvel movies now. Or the other way around for that matter. Why not we instead compare Justice League to Avengers, Wonder Woman to the Black Widow movie, Superman to like, Cap. Suicide Squad with Guardians. And Batman to Iron Man. Forget BVS because though I loved both the theatrical and ultimate, it's nothing lie, any marvel movies. But we need to compare solo t solo, group to group.
I am a huge huge fan of batman but you gotta be realistic bvs was totally garbage and suicide squad also. DC fans gotta stop defending those 2 movies , we deserve a lot better.
The reason why these movies made a billion dollars is because they were good enough to watch more than once in the theater. So, although BvS and Suicide Squad are watchable films, I would NEVER see those movies twice.
When people talk about what a movie "should" have made at the box office, they often miss critical factors like run-time, markets the movie is released in, and tone of the movie. People are less likely to do repeat viewing of a long, heavy, drama-based film than a shorter, comedy-infused action film.
Critical reaction has nothing to do with it. DC movies under-perform because they are sub-par. Until that changes they will be little more than also-rans.
Grace, can you stop blaming BVS's not making a billion on the rotten tomato's scores please? It's ruining an otherwise nicely balanced discussion. The high scores on opening weekend (after the reviews came out) and the massive drop on the second are indicative of poor word of mouth, which I heard a lot of from none DC casual cinema goers at the time. The fact is it just didn't strike a chord with a wider audience.
Here are the facts, the Chris Nolan "Dark Knight" trilogy was the darkest Batman ever released, Heath Ledger's Joker is now the gold standard when it comes to modern villain portrayal. And fans of Marvel/DC as well as critics applauded the movie, and box office success matched the sentiment. So fans who claim the darker DC movies are unfairly criticized because they are being compared to light hearted more humorous Marvel movies are grasping for straws. Here's another fact, Marvel has managed to achieve the trifecta, just like the "Dark Knight"; massive audience/comic fan approval, critical acclaim and box office success, something the DC universe has yet to accomplish with their most recent incarnation. That means, that unlike DC, Marvel has consistently been able to draw both comic and non comic fans to the box office, which is the equivalent of a politician convincing independent voters to mobilize in large numbers and cast ballots for him. Another massive failure for DC is their atrocious casting/acting; Marvel is murdering them in this department; let's compare, Henry Cavill=male stripper cosplay Superman Ben Affleck=Angry divorce settlement Batman Jesse Eisenberg=so annoying, Gene Hackman wants his Luthor deleted from every movie. Will Smith=Will Smith Jared Leto=not significant enough to even talk about Robert Downey Jr= Tony Stark/Iron Man Chris Hemsworth= Thor Chris Evans= Captain America Samuel Jackson= Nick Fury Superior casting, writing, acting, character development. Marvel has released at least 3 movie I would consider bad/mediocre. But they are able to rely on previous successful elements, such as strength of characters, pacing and sound writing. (strictly speaking of Avengers movie universe) Which is why fans can forgive. DC on the other hand has zero credibility, because they haven't developed a single one, they deserve all the hate they are getting because they keep attempting to lower the bar, by shoving as many characters down our throats in a shorter span. That's called taking shortcuts, and that's why their recent movies should have been sent straight to the nearest dumpster fire.
1) Suicide Squad made $679.4 million in the box office. Not enough to break even. It'll be screwed 2) I'm actually with Mel Gibson with this. Batman v Superman annoyed me so much. Suicide Squad was a nightmare 3) I will watch Captain Marvel instead of Wonder Woman
***** For WB, the break even number needs to be $800 million. Suicide Squad has to make enough to reach that target since they've spent much of their money on reshoots and others
I see it like this: real fans accept the fact the DC movies lack what critics want but deliver to the fans. Media needs to understand that point, reason why the fans are enraged.
I came out of BvS thinking it was a good film... "what was all the fuss about, right?". Suicide Squad was a different story felt let down by the editing Jared Leto style. With all the marketing and star power and the joker i think it should've surpassed BvS
I really love the discussion you've made in this video, Grace. It seems like the critics are particularly jaded when it comes to comic book films (especially from DC) refuse to acknowledge any good points in the films & to combat that, hardcore fans feel the need to defend what they love by overly praise a film and refuse to acknowledge any flaws. Both sides refuse to be fair and objective, which is the WORST part of this entire situation.
One criticism I've never understood of the DCEU is Henry Cavill's Superman. A lot of people don't like him and say he's not 'Our Superman' and that the character isn't like what he is in the comics. However, ever since Man of Steel began it should be abundantly clear that the whole point to this Superman is that he is NOT 'our' Superman, he's growing into that and we'll (hopefully) see that character in the future. And yet people aren't happy with them fast forwarding the timelines of the DCEU, something which I agree with to a certain extent, but I guess you just can't please some people, no matter what you do.
I watched both BvS and SS, both film aren't perfect, but still fun and entertaining. I say the critics are wrong for giving both films a lower score of 25%. That bullshit! Because I've seen a lot of shitty superhero films such as The Wolverine, Iron Man sequels, Thor The Dark World, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man 2, Batman Forever, Superman Returns, X-Men Last Stand, X-Men Apocalypse, Fantastic 4 Rise of Silver Surfer, and The Hulk (2003) all have higher scores than BvS and SS. It doesn't make quite sense.
I don't need the DC movies to be light-hearted and cheerful like Marvel. What I want is for them to have a good story with compelling characters (with clear and believable motives) in a well-made, well-paced, well-edited film. I just want a good story, well told. I don't think that's really asking so much.
Even before the bad reviews, I didn't think Suicide Squad would make this much money. The movie could've been better, but I still had a great time watching it.
I think it is fair to say that just because a movie makes a lot of money doesn't mean it was good. For example, if it was possible to get a refund for a bad movie then I don't think that Suicide Squad would've made nearly as much.
A group of people disagree with me on a movie. They are obviously biased! No doubt about it! There is no possibility that they are just expressing their own opinions like everybody else on the Internet, and that the majority of them agree on an opinion that differs from mine. There's clearly some kind of agenda
I think we should also note that Suicide Squad won't open in China, while Guardians did. To truly compare the two, we could subtract the $94.5 million GotG made in China from its total box office ($773.3 - $94.5 = $678.8). That means that both films made about the same (SS $678 as of this video). Side note: I didn't love SS and was disappointed with it. The visuals and most of the casting was great, but the story needed A LOT of work.
By saying, "...if they're done right", you're conceding they were not done right. That would agree with the critical reception of the films. DC are going with the strategy: build the hype, load the trailers with iconic characters, bar early critic's reviews, allow early fan screenings and their reviews rely on pre-sales and a huge opening weekend release a different movie to the home market, to pull disappointed fans back in.
I agree with you with every point you made and thank you for being nice about fans also
+Beyond The Trailer I strongly believe that movies get a hard time due to the very same issue you critics.
+Beyond The Trailer I totally agree with everything you said grace I am not a fan boy I like both marvel nd dc I enjoy them but we real fans stuck in marvel nd dc war I don't know why people want to kill dceu ???!! nd i love your videos keep up the great work : )
+AFLATOON619 why do you keep leaving the "a" out of "and"?
I understand what you are saying, but here is the thing. Batman (& villains) and Superman are the most well known comic book characters to date and a live-action representation of these characters will attract the devoted fan base right off the bat. That is why I believe that the reason why DCEU movies are receiving box office success is because of the popularity of there top-ranked characters and why they aren't making much more is because of their stories (especially in the third act). The stories are not terrible in the first two-thirds of the movies but they do fall flat in the final one-third. Movies are suppose to be great stories and great characters not just great characters.
Another point I would like to address is the comparison of DC movies to Marvel movies more specific is DC solos vs MCU solos. Warner Bros. are using A-Class characters with huge followings to make movies out of, while Marvel Studios were forced to use B- to C-Class characters to make their franchise. Comparing a current Batman movie (which has worldwide devoted fan bases and previous success movie adaptations) against a first ever Iron Man movie (which is far from as popular as Batman with no previous attempted movie adaptations) is very unreasonable considering the many variables that contributed to the Dark Knight trilogy success.
My opinion in how comic book movies are rated by both critics and fans for the most part:
Critics = Story
Fans = Characters
That's disgusting what happened to that little girl. People can be so cruel.
That just really pissed me off.
Seriously, people go way too far with this stuff. Harassing a little girl over comic book characters? People are crazy :/
Agreed. I've seen some despicable behavior from fans, but I honestly think that example has hit a new low.
+Diamondaydreamer It's horrible. Whoever did that needs to be exposed.
+Michael Urban Exactly really people need to reevaluate their "love" of these companies.
Superman is no where near as popular a character as he was in 1978, nowadays kids want to grow up and become Ironman or Captain America. It's a shame what has become of Superman it's like DC has found a way to tarnish that characters legacy, while giving Batman all the shine.
Totally agree. everyone has different tastes, for me BvS is still my favorite comic book film of the year
True, a lot of people don't like it but I thought they displayed a perfect representation of both characters and the reasons they fight
I agree. BvS is my favourite also. I recently watched both BvS and Civil War. Both are great films and both aren't perfect (no film is) but BvS resonates a lot more with me and I think it was masterfully created.
Suicide Squad has been the best for me. Civil War and BvS [ultimate editon/cut] tied for 2nd place. BvS I had such ungodly expectations for. I hyped it so much in my mind. Realistically it could never have delivered the perfect movie i had concocted in my mind.
BvS is my favorite too.
Especially the ULTIMATE EDITION!
Soooo good
I love the ultimate cut. Just masterful in my opinion.
The DC/Marvel fandom is crazy. You can excuse the kids, but the full grown ups acting like teens it's baffling
Grace, I love all the videos you upload! And it's so fun to sprinkle all these wonderful coverages throughout the day!
You are so articulate and well thought out and I'm glad you do such a great job keeping balance in the TH-cam space!
And here.... we.... go!
Couldn't have put it better myself :)
+Beyond The Trailer Grace do you think it's possible for all of the future DC films to get really good reviews because of Geoff Jones. If they do then could they make way over 700 million or even more.
Even after all the awful shit Mel Gibson has said, not gonna lie he still makes good movies, whether he is in them or directing, he picks good projects. I think he can say BvS is not good.
I'm with Mel Gibson
of course you are. smh
Chatroom Goon I'm just with Mel as far as the BvS.
+DC Big Oso “YHWH” YAH Strangely enough. So do I
He has pottymouth, it sounds brutal, straight to the point, but true.
just like +grace randholph mentioned.."ultimate edition" bruh,u will dig it for sure :)
There is no bias, dc has just been making bad movies. Just look at the dark knight trilogy critics liked those movies.
that was before the MCU now the critics don't understand that superheros can be dark as well as light-hearted
+Matthew Mulcahy Very true - Marvel & DC are like apples and oranges. They're TOTALLY different :)
What makes you think that? I would not say that X-Men: Apocalypse was that dark or that Captain America: Civil War was that ligh-hearted. Both those movies came out this year and(I'd say) disproves your theory.
Rotten Tomatoes
..............................
X-Men: 48%
Civil War: 90%
Critics love the Netflix Marvel shows.
***** True. Luke Cage is already getting great reviews
Would you say that comic book fans are more forgiving toward these movies because they're used to bad writing?
I don't read comic books and I loved them
They're the most hostile
Some comics are excellently written. You should read "The Ultimates by Mark Miller" which a lot of the Avengers movies are based on. The comic is even better IMHO. You should also check out "Y the last man," and "The Watchmen." In fact our lovely Grace was a comic writer.
I think it's because fans want something to work so badly that they will ignore all sorts of things. Once the fandom blinders go on it's hard to convince fans that something isn't the greatest ever.
i dont understand why should we care more about how well the movie does in box office rather than the quality.
I think that Suicide Squad is a success simply because it created the movie character of the year - Harley Quinn.
The number of women (or men) cosplaying or paying an homage of some sort to Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Jean Grey, Storm, Psylocke and even Wonder Woman *altogether* isn't anywhere as Harley Quinn's.
If you ask any person who went to the movie theater summer 2016 what or who they remember, many (even most) of them will say Harley Quinn.
As a FAN.... i will admit Suicide Squad and BATMAN V SUPERMAN under-performed. lol
Why is this comment section playing fast and loose with the term masterpiece?
Amen! Solid movies and gems are not the same as a Masterpiece!!! You can really love something without it redefining the film landscape and being the pinnacle of art!! Not that you touched a nerve or anything....
Because we're talking about DC movies. And they're masterpieces. Sorry but it's true.
I know! A masterpiece is something like Taxi Driver, no superhero film is a masterpiece
Suicide Squad is full of problems, but i think it's still watchable. BvS was fucking beautiful.
it's not really fair to just write us off as 'fanboys'. people just have different opinions.
"Trolliest of Trolls" Ahma gonna steal that! LOL
O
It's not like WB is some poor tiny independent studio. Time Warner is one of the biggest media companies in the world. They have an incredible amount of money, power, and influence.
+khaoulah11 it's mainly the ceo of wb man. he can't make a Movie to save his life.
BatvsSup would be made as much as 1 bil but the media fucked it over spinning the story that dc was trying to copy marvel and wasn't worth watching for some reason
Man of Steel and Batman v Superman are *MASTERPIECES!* Suicide Squad is great fan service film!
+Donovan Rodriguez Do you know what a masterpiece is? The Godfather is a masterpiece, Shawshank Redemption is a masterpiece, Rocky is a masterpiece, The lion King is a masterpiece, If you put BvS or Man Of Steel at masterpiece level you're biased.
LMFAOO i needed a good laugh today.
+ShizzTheKid Judgment Day is a masterpiece, The Matrix is a masterpiece, Mad max Fury Road is a masterpiece. If you only put drama movies at masterpiece level and didn't look to other genre than you're more biased than you think.
MOS yes, BvS is a nice compliment. MOS just gets better every time I watch it. I also am addicted to the soundtrack.
+Donovan Rodriguez they got good box offices scores just the media didn't like them
I'm a DC fan and I hated the past two MCU films.
sorry I meant DCEU.I would have to be out of my mind to hate the MCU those guys are actually killing it.
Same here
+Hating me is conforming I'm a DC fan and loved batman v superman, didn't like suicide squad
Ryan I'm really looking forward to Wonder Woman more so than Justice League.Not Gal Gadot but the film as a whole plus I really love Chris Pines work as an actor in star trek,smokin aces etc.
Hating me is conforming Same here. I have a feeling JL will be another disapointment. I would rather have Patty Jenkins direct that too lmao.
Grace be real both batman v superman and Suicide squad were bad movies and until we acknowledge that they they will keep putting out this garbage and ruining our beloved DC characters
Opinions
I loved both films. Haha! But it's all about opinions.
I hope DC franchise not end up like Tranformer franchise, if anyone would suffer would be the fans, not the studio bank account
"Nobody messes with my friends" is enough to consider SS a fail
The Truth Hurts One studio knows what it is trying to be. That's kind of exactly why it works
grace I am a DC fan boy I am a 10x bigger fan of dc comics over marvel any day of the week my top 10 favorite superheroes are all dc heroes and I absolutely hate these dceu movies they are awful they completely miss everything that love about these characters
Then... you don't read enough comics nor do see the obvious themes they throw to your face that represents the characters perfectly.
Batnab i totally agree with you, hopefully with Geoff johns at the helm these DCEU movies can finally feel like the comics
+Joel Henry Yawn* Ignorance... whatever its all an opinion. But... I don't see how a character that is explored more than one way and is approached in film in that certain way, perhaps mixed, can be considered, "The wrong way to do the character" but ok.
+Joel Henry I don't mean to come off as a fanboy but sometimes it is true.
+Joel Henry I honestly never saw a person who defended these versions of the character with themes. I have a few times but they all came off as raw. Never explained properly. Regardless those reasons are valid.
Re: The 1979 Superman. Grace, you answered your own question with this one. It was the first big budget superhero movie, and the marketing at the time showed. "You will believe a man can fly". It was that tagline (and the fact that they pulled it off) that took the film to an inflation adjusted billion dollars. I was there...
TO EVERYONE READING THE COMMENTS: Rottentomatoes does not 'give scores'. Saying that a film would do better if only it had a 'better RT score' makes no sense. A whole crowd of critics go to the films then write their opinions of the film they saw in a review. RT collects all those critic reviews on one site and totals up how many of the critics like the film and gave it a favorable review. If many critics liked the film, then the number will show a high percentage point. If only a few liked the film, then the percentage point will be very low. The only thing that controls what the percentage point is, is the quality of the film. If the filmmakers want a 'high RT score' then they have to make a great film. Like Marvel Studios does, like Nolan did with the Daark Knight, Like Kasdan did with Empire Strikes Back, like Spielberg did with Jaws, Hitchcock with Psycho, McTiernan with Die Hard, Cameron With Titanic, Avatar, Aliens & Terminator, del Toro with Hellboy, Tarantino with Pulp Fiction, Scott with The Martian, on and on and on. It's not so hard.
***** Maybe for A Zackass like you but to the general public, the reverse is true. But keep telling yourself that. Mention it to Tsujihara when Suicide Squad comes up short in the BO.
***** _" get of this channel you marvel fanboy"_
Wrong again, Zackass. I'm a DC fan. I've forgotten more DC lore than you'll ever know.
+camethedawn guys chill out, us dc fan boys should not fight within. thats what "they" want.
***** I agree nothing good will come of it and we'd just be another embarrassment to the brand. I'll lay off it. Thanks for the call out. 👍
camethedawn nw we are brothers in arms lol
Not so much.
The DCEU sucks overall. They just are not good movies.
Putting aside the 'fandom' concerns...
There are plot holes, HORRIBLE 'dialogue,' grimy looking shots...
They are just plain bad.
u just show us what most of the muc movies are.
Civil war had all that 😂 but it got lifted
***** I'll grant you a few plot holes in Civil War.
Where were the grimy shots?
Can you point out where the dialogue got schlocky?
Granted, nothing can compare to "Save...... Martha."
+nenafan1 excuse me ? Why u crying about the Martha scene when in civil war cap cries over Bucky and does the same thing ?
*****
First, I'm not "crying."
Second, the Martha scene was pure shit. Even the people who liked the movie should admit that. Most already have.
Third, where in Civil War did 'cap cry over Bucky and do the same thing'?
~ answer, he didn't. You pulled it straight from your ass.
all I gotta say is Ben Afflack has been the best BatMan so far.
Agree bro.
Agreed
Affleck was excellent. IMHO, out of all the actors that have done batman, Christian Bale was the best, followed by Keaton and Affleck...
Disagree, he needs a better movie to be the best Batman
I agree. Especially when being fair about Keaton's era. Back in that day, we couldn't have had the films we have today. Keaton paved the way. Keaton did a lot for super hero films and with that said, it's much like say, The Joker character. NO ONE can beat what Jack Nicholson did. PERIOD! Jack was... omg just perfect. BUT at the same time, THAT JOKER wouldn't survive in today's era. Ledger's? Wow.. what a performance. Classic and true to comics? No it wasn't... but the performance was awesome. So, with due respect to each Joker, even Leto's incarnation, The Bat, The Joker etc, what we've gotten so far, were perfect for what we needed at the time... except Let's Joker... and though I do NOT like the grill, the "new 52" is it? look.. not a fan, BUT, I do not blame Jared solely for what we got. They cut the character and didn't let him shine... and for that I think they ruined it> and not just because it was left on the floor, because I think it was ruined from the get go because I THINK... they knew they were gonna do this from the beginning. I think they (studio, execs etc) were afraid. They were afraid to take on the Joker and fail.
Now.. Batfleck. I really wanted him to do well... and I am 100% positive I am not biased in saying this, but I think I like his Batman the best. Now I know, some of the scenes that made him great were not just Ben's doing, it was Zach and Producer's deciding what angles and such would be best... what filter, to make it dark etc.... BUT... Ben pulled it off. I think he knocked it out of the park. His build, his suit to enhance the bulky look, etc. The suit design, the cowl design, all fit almost.. not perfectly, but almost perfectly. For this, I am definitely super excited to see the Stand-Alone Bat film coming up!!
Just because a movie has a better Rotten Tomatoes score, doesn't guarantee box office success. Ghostbusters 2016 is a great example of this.
how can you compare, guardians of the galaxy and deadpool with suicide quad? neither of the marvel movies had as much hype as suicide squad, almost no one knew about guardians of the galaxy characters, and dead pool wasn't that popular too, but damn .... Harley Quinn, the joker, and batman are very well known ! they were much more popular, bringing much more people to the cinema.
People always forget that no one thought Groot and Rocket would make sense.
+GARITA Productions but it's not
Deadpool had A LOT of hype dare i say close to the hype of Suicide Squad.
People wanted Suicide Squad to be rated R just like Deadpool, so it was supposed to push the barriers of PG13, and both Guardians and Suicide Squad are about a team of bad guys being heroes.
I get what you mean. Guardians was a team of not well known characters with none of the big name stars/characters from the other films (unlike SS) and Deadpool was not a team movie and was R, theoretically SS should have been aiming to do much better
I'm happy you made this video.... I can't speak for all DC fans and I never claimed DCEU movies are perfect but they are certainly not failures that the media and marvel fans were painting them to be. I was getting worried you were jumping on that bandwagon with your recent videos but I know you always try to remain a fair reviewer and I'm glad you made this video to clear up not only what's going on with the media/fans but your stance on it as well.
And Mel Gibson is an idiot and shouldn't talk about things he doesn't know, but at this point I guess we shouldn't be surprised of the things that come out of his mouth
Seeing a lot of "masterpiece" in the comments. masterpiece is not subjective. it's a mark of excellence and achievement that continues to influence artists over an extended period of time. it's not simply a movie that you really like... ESPECIALLY when said movie has not earned respect from other film makers.
I asked to so many DC fan friends of mine about suicide squad and bvs , did you like the storyline but it's so funny how people just avoid the question. Their answer is always well the movie was different but I ask them again what did you think about the storyline, their answer is well it was cool to see harley and deadshot or to batman ans superman in the same movie. DC fans can't just admit that the 2 movie sucked.
lol EVERY friend that you have that is a DC fan answers exactly the same way....interesting. How do they feel about Marvels storylines?
Well you gotta admit that their storyline make way more sense and it flows all perfectly not like bvs and suicide when they could have made 3 different movies only with bvs let's say
+Timbo slice Perfectly? Lol that is what I don't get about Marvel fanboys....they truly believe all MCU movies are perfect. Age of Ultron had issues with its storyline. It made no sense that the President got kidnapped in Ironman 3 and no other Avenger thought it was important to show up. GotG was just a fun movie that had several flaws. I could go on and on. Now I enjoyed all of those movies (except GotG) but recognized they had obvious issues. The theatrical BvS had editing issues not storyline issues. Suicide Squad was obviously changed in the last 3rd of the movie. But I enjoyed both movies. And most people enjoyed the movies.
I am DC fan and I loved BvS storytelling.
I am going to say this, the DC Extended Universe is out to a great start. It is now at over 2.2 Billion dollars and counting. It took 5, MCU Movies to earn that amount and these crittics donot want DC to succeed in their movies. But, as how I see it, they are successful big time. We are at each other's throats over this, but all in all, the DC movies are going to be great, that is, Wonder Woman, Justice League and the others. These movies need our support. Peace.
These movies need better character development, writing ,directing, casting pretty much everything Marvel does well.
They are now working hard to improve, and they are improving. Watch and see.
Shadysif2 hours ago
These movies need better character development, writing ,directing, casting pretty much everything Marvel does well.
^ At least Booster Gold wont be part of the DCEU now, just wish more DC movies were not tied to the DCEU, we'd have a lot better DC films!
Very well stated guy.
Sorry Grace, but just because a movie makes billions of dollars doesn't mean you're not allowed to think it's a piece of shit. Mel Gibson has every right to call BvS a piece of shit.
Scott Mendelson has a very interesting article about DC being the equivalent to Twilight in how the fans behave and how the Boxoffice of the movies perform. With huge openings and huge second weekend drops. Movies that are made to the fans and defended by the fans while critics hate.
NEVER COMPARE DC FILMS TO TWILIGHT!!!!!! OH GOD... Like... jesus... I know your not the one comparing them but... just don't Some people who defend the DCEU make better aurguments than those who defend twilight. Christ its like saying Ghostbusters (2016) was a masterpiece...
Living Lies hehehe sorry. I don't mean to offend. It's a very good article though if you read it without prejudice.
Sounds about right. DCEU = Twilight for the comicbook films crowds.
+Greice Rodrigues Jesus, it took me a while to find this thread. I didn't get offended. I just that those 2 being compared is like... that's taking it way too far. I will take a look at that article.
+camethedawn Even you can admit if you had to pick your torture youd pick the DCEU over Twilight.
its true ,even tho i didnt dislike Suicide squad, but cmon why are they defending the box office? with the millions and millions that the trailer has, and the unbelievable hype the movie had, the movie should have made at least 1.5 billion..
Wonder Woman gonna demolish The Box Office, remember this comment.
Uh, people compare the first 3 Marvel cinematic UNIVERSE movies with the first 3 DC cinematic UNIVERSE movies. Not the first team movie, or the Nolan universe movies.
I don't see why fans should praise nor hate DC or Marvel based on their box office success. Everyone should just base their opinion on the actual quality of the film, not the money it makes back for the studio.
Best fights in a super hero film is in Man of Steel!
There are so many factors that play into why a critic or a fan would love or hate a comic book movie now that it's almost impossible to take any critical review or fan evaluation as gospel. From not knowing the source material, to not respecting the storyteller's right to make changes, to mistakenly believing there is only one way to make a good superhero movie, it's frustrating to hear people try to come to some consensus on whether each release is actually a good movie or not. At this point, I'm just going to vote with my wallet and for the time being I enjoy what both Marvel and DC are doing and thank God that we're not getting the same movie over and over again.
Great info Grace and very good points. I may make a response video to this one! Thanks for the content again!
I'll be looking for that video . I been saying this for a while too.
Grace you always speak the truth😍😍😍
true story🙋
Grace, please defend your (please forgive me but) hypocrisy. You just said that BVS is a failure because batman alone made $1billion + at the box office, whereas you uphold Captain america civil war, when the film heavily features Ironman, but made way less than the $1.3 billion stand alone Ironman 3. In fact Civil war in general is a crying shame at the box office. People critiqued BVS for making 872 million, when civil war made only 1.115 billion , with Ironman, most of the avengers, black panther, AND spiderman! Marvel's box office has been steadily going down since fail of ultron, and I see folks already lining up to defend dr strange which is projected to open at $50 million by the industry, by comparing it to antman, which opened to $65 million. DC's fresh movies vs an aging MCU is not a very smart comparison IMHO.
1. WW-masterpiece
2. BVS- underrated masterpiece
3. MOS- incredible
4. SS- entertaining
Hey Grace! Coming from a place of no hate or judgement I gotta ask, what did you like in the theatrical BvS film over the 'Ultimate' version of the film? I just want to hear your opinions on it since I personally think the ultimate version at least cleaned up some of the distracted rush that was in the theatrical.
Thanks!
DCEU's biggest problem is not tone, but the post production editing by the suits, instead of leaving the director/original editor's versions intact.
I said it before, and I say it again. Grace I have been following you since 2007. Many many times I disagreed with your point of views, and the way you were conducting your channels, but you have truly matured as a presenter and in the way you state your opinions. I'm really happy to see the way you are growing. You have become really respectful or everyone's points of views, and now you see news from every angle and not just yours. Its a true delight to watch your videos, when you are no longer trying to create controversy, but to state facts, and count everyone's opinion and position in a topic. I'm really looking forward to discover how much more you can grow as a person and as a presenter.
What do people have against DC Half of the animated movies are good why do people hate DC so much that they go after the fans it's not there fault
Hi Grace! I'm a huge fan of all your videos, thank you for all that you do! I have a viewer question for you! Ryan Potter (a young actor known for his role in Big Hero 6) is currently campaigning to be Tim Drake in Ben Affleck's new Batman movie. Do you think that this could help to add to the diversity in DC films? Do you think he'd make a good Robin?
The "Martha moment" (ugh) ruined its chances to make a Billion. After seeing that once I don't think I ever want to see it again.
Evidence? Check. Neutral tone without taking sides? Check. Looking at the situation from all perspectives? Check. Grace? Check. This video is one of the main reasons why I absolutely love the videos on both your channels and I take Grace's reviews/ recommendations/ ideas seriously when it comes to movies and TV shows. Thank you!
Suicide Squad, just like Deadpool and Guardians of the Galaxy, had a pretty well received marketing campaign, so that's probably one reason why its reaching $700 million despite its criticisms.
Great thoughts Grace. ❤️❤️❤️Love your videos, they keep my days interesting.
TDK made a billion because Ledger TDKR made a billion because of hype after TDK
It also had a great script
Ironman 3 was no better than TDKR and it still made a billion, while Ironman 2 was no competition.
I think IM3 only made a billion because it came after Avengers' hype and Iron Man was the stand out character in that movie.
Its also considered by many to be the greatest comic book film of all time. Combine that with the fact that it is Batman (which has always been a strong brand) and its quite easy to imagine that it achieved a billion on its own merits.
Curious if some of the critics who say the movies in DCEU suck also hated Christopher Nolan's Batman films.
Will you be reviewing Kubo today or this weekend?
The graphic is also leaving out the fact that BvS had a budget about $100k more than any of those Phase 1 solo films.
If you are going after anyone, especially a child, over a movie you need to reevaluate your life choices.
Sometimes I think we give Rotten Tomatoes a little to much credit , I'm betting the average movie goer hasn't even heard of Rotten Tomatoes
I still enjoy DCEU films. MCU films are just thoroughly more enjoyable in my opinion. Doesn't change the fact I bought the Batman v Superman steelbook (Civil War steelbook was better though).
lol positive shade
lol Optimistic criticism.
Oh and Mel Gibson sucks I won't be seeing his movies again either
A terrible movie is a terrible movie no matter how you try to dress it up. In my opinion the DCU deserves better than the mediocre stuff they keep making. Alot of the problem is they keep trying to rush things trying to catch up to Marvel. If they had just taken their time and built up like Marvel did I think it would have been better. Not to mention terrible casting choices. If anyone thinks Gal Gadot looks anything like Wonder Woman from the comics you need to get your eyes checked. I mean they cast two appropriate actors for Superman and Batman. Not to mention her costume is just bad. I shouldn't be surprised though DC has spent decades messing her up why stop now?
Says the guy with a Star Wars prequel profile pic, lol
Thank you Grace, for proving I'm not insane for thinking there's a middle ground that needs to be reached.
1- compairing Nolan Batman movies with MARVEL solo movies is completely unfair. Batman had A LOT of movies before, the JOKER actor died, he is the most famous american superhero. IRON-MAN was nearly a C-LIST in the comics, THOR never had a video-game, CAPTAIN AMERICA is controversial in a lot of foreign countries.
Mel Gibson was referring to superhero films in general, I would assume because he was not raised with american comic books and has no nostalgic connection to the characters. Also, referencing the Donner era Superman films or the Nolan Batman films is not appropriate because I don't believe that anyone has a problem with DC per se. It's the current DCEU films that are the issue, and in particular
how they compare in quality to the MCU films. Any Marvel film prior to Iron Man and any DC film prior to Man of Steel shouldn't be a part of the debate.
Marvel fanboys: We prefer MCU movies over DCEU because our movies are more enjoyable.
DC fanboys: DCEU HAS MASTERPIECES YOU DONT GET, MCU SUCKS AND IS ONYL FOR KIDS.
Grace: Guys calm down, you're embarrasing me as DC fan.
hey Grace I'd like to hear your thoughts on DCEU continuity. In regards to how BvS has a director cut that has Essentially eliminated the theatrical cut, and SS possibly having another cut moving fwd...while one would hope DC stops this practice soon, what is going to be their official continuity cuts? SS is drastically different than what was approved at a script level and BvS is favored overall by fans for its theatrical cut. Do u think WB will choose the theatrical only route or will they have a more complex answer...or even have an answer?
Some DC fans are so delusional, that they completely reject sound logic in favor of absurd conspiracy rhetoric. Rotten Tomatoes doesn't review movies, they simply average the scores of critics across the country. And those same critics independently watch the film, and independently review the film. That means hundreds of critics genuinely hate DC movie.
I say that instead of comparing the first DC films with the Marvel movies now. Or the other way around for that matter. Why not we instead compare Justice League to Avengers, Wonder Woman to the Black Widow movie, Superman to like, Cap. Suicide Squad with Guardians. And Batman to Iron Man. Forget BVS because though I loved both the theatrical and ultimate, it's nothing lie, any marvel movies. But we need to compare solo t solo, group to group.
I am a huge huge fan of batman but you gotta be realistic bvs was totally garbage and suicide squad also. DC fans gotta stop defending those 2 movies , we deserve a lot better.
The reason why these movies made a billion dollars is because they were good enough to watch more than once in the theater.
So, although BvS and Suicide Squad are watchable films, I would NEVER see those movies twice.
Probably your best video. Well thought out, well explained and very articulate. Well done
When people talk about what a movie "should" have made at the box office, they often miss critical factors like run-time, markets the movie is released in, and tone of the movie. People are less likely to do repeat viewing of a long, heavy, drama-based film than a shorter, comedy-infused action film.
Critical reaction has nothing to do with it. DC movies under-perform because they are sub-par. Until that changes they will be little more than also-rans.
They are planning to attack Wonderwoman movie Reviews next year
I love how on the thumbnail where she put "right she put batman and superman and where it said "wrong" she put Joker and Harley.
Grace, can you stop blaming BVS's not making a billion on the rotten tomato's scores please? It's ruining an otherwise nicely balanced discussion. The high scores on opening weekend (after the reviews came out) and the massive drop on the second are indicative of poor word of mouth, which I heard a lot of from none DC casual cinema goers at the time. The fact is it just didn't strike a chord with a wider audience.
Here are the facts, the Chris Nolan "Dark Knight" trilogy was the darkest Batman ever released, Heath Ledger's Joker is now the gold standard when it comes to modern villain portrayal. And fans of Marvel/DC as well as critics applauded the movie, and box office success matched the sentiment. So fans who claim the darker DC movies are unfairly criticized because they are being compared to light hearted more humorous Marvel movies are grasping for straws. Here's another fact, Marvel has managed to achieve the trifecta, just like the "Dark Knight"; massive audience/comic fan approval, critical acclaim and box office success, something the DC universe has yet to accomplish with their most recent incarnation. That means, that unlike DC, Marvel has consistently been able to draw both comic and non comic fans to the box office, which is the equivalent of a politician convincing independent voters to mobilize in large numbers and cast ballots for him. Another massive failure for DC is their atrocious casting/acting; Marvel is murdering them in this department; let's compare,
Henry Cavill=male stripper cosplay Superman
Ben Affleck=Angry divorce settlement Batman
Jesse Eisenberg=so annoying, Gene Hackman wants his Luthor deleted from every movie.
Will Smith=Will Smith
Jared Leto=not significant enough to even talk about
Robert Downey Jr= Tony Stark/Iron Man
Chris Hemsworth= Thor
Chris Evans= Captain America
Samuel Jackson= Nick Fury
Superior casting, writing, acting, character development. Marvel has released at least 3 movie I would consider bad/mediocre. But they are able to rely on previous successful elements, such as strength of characters, pacing and sound writing. (strictly speaking of Avengers movie universe) Which is why fans can forgive. DC on the other hand has zero credibility, because they haven't developed a single one, they deserve all the hate they are getting because they keep attempting to lower the bar, by shoving as many characters down our throats in a shorter span. That's called taking shortcuts, and that's why their recent movies should have been sent straight to the nearest dumpster fire.
1) Suicide Squad made $679.4 million in the box office. Not enough to break even. It'll be screwed
2) I'm actually with Mel Gibson with this. Batman v Superman annoyed me so much. Suicide Squad was a nightmare
3) I will watch Captain Marvel instead of Wonder Woman
***** For WB, the break even number needs to be $800 million. Suicide Squad has to make enough to reach that target since they've spent much of their money on reshoots and others
Save your money because those movies are going to be shit too
I see it like this: real fans accept the fact the DC movies lack what critics want but deliver to the fans. Media needs to understand that point, reason why the fans are enraged.
This was a great video Grace. I really appreciate your levelheaded analytics :)
I came out of BvS thinking it was a good film... "what was all the fuss about, right?".
Suicide Squad was a different story felt let down by the editing Jared Leto style. With all the marketing and star power and the joker i think it should've surpassed BvS
I really love the discussion you've made in this video, Grace. It seems like the critics are particularly jaded when it comes to comic book films (especially from DC) refuse to acknowledge any good points in the films & to combat that, hardcore fans feel the need to defend what they love by overly praise a film and refuse to acknowledge any flaws. Both sides refuse to be fair and objective, which is the WORST part of this entire situation.
One criticism I've never understood of the DCEU is Henry Cavill's Superman. A lot of people don't like him and say he's not 'Our Superman' and that the character isn't like what he is in the comics. However, ever since Man of Steel began it should be abundantly clear that the whole point to this Superman is that he is NOT 'our' Superman, he's growing into that and we'll (hopefully) see that character in the future. And yet people aren't happy with them fast forwarding the timelines of the DCEU, something which I agree with to a certain extent, but I guess you just can't please some people, no matter what you do.
I watched both BvS and SS, both film aren't perfect, but still fun and entertaining. I say the critics are wrong for giving both films a lower score of 25%. That bullshit! Because I've seen a lot of shitty superhero films such as The Wolverine, Iron Man sequels, Thor The Dark World, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man 2, Batman Forever, Superman Returns, X-Men Last Stand, X-Men Apocalypse, Fantastic 4 Rise of Silver Surfer, and The Hulk (2003) all have higher scores than BvS and SS. It doesn't make quite sense.
I don't need the DC movies to be light-hearted and cheerful like Marvel. What I want is for them to have a good story with compelling characters (with clear and believable motives) in a well-made, well-paced, well-edited film. I just want a good story, well told. I don't think that's really asking so much.
Even before the bad reviews, I didn't think Suicide Squad would make this much money. The movie could've been better, but I still had a great time watching it.
I think that NOT calling a movie a piece of shit just because it makes a billion dollars is incredibly naive
"Let's watch a Mel Gibson film"
-Said No One Ever
Another excellent video! Thank you for making it; well done points!
Thank you Grace, amazing video! So realistic, without taking the side. Keep up with great work!
the "FANS" are the ones who make the movie shitty in the first place they never want to admit the movies aren't good .
Wish rotten tomatoes would go away.
I think it is fair to say that just because a movie makes a lot of money doesn't mean it was good. For example, if it was possible to get a refund for a bad movie then I don't think that Suicide Squad would've made nearly as much.
Chapter times are not in the description.
A group of people disagree with me on a movie. They are obviously biased! No doubt about it! There is no possibility that they are just expressing their own opinions like everybody else on the Internet, and that the majority of them agree on an opinion that differs from mine. There's clearly some kind of agenda
Maybe the DCEU should have done some solo movies first before going to the big guns.
I think we should also note that Suicide Squad won't open in China, while Guardians did. To truly compare the two, we could subtract the $94.5 million GotG made in China from its total box office ($773.3 - $94.5 = $678.8). That means that both films made about the same (SS $678 as of this video).
Side note: I didn't love SS and was disappointed with it. The visuals and most of the casting was great, but the story needed A LOT of work.
By saying, "...if they're done right", you're conceding they were not done right.
That would agree with the critical reception of the films.
DC are going with the strategy:
build the hype,
load the trailers with iconic characters,
bar early critic's reviews,
allow early fan screenings and their reviews
rely on pre-sales and a huge opening weekend
release a different movie to the home market, to pull disappointed fans back in.
6- BvS budget is much more than what was announced. It's believed to have costed 400 million…… so, much more than any MCU movie.