You could've bought a newly rebuilt 3208 for less than $20,000. In fact, you could've swapped in your broken motor and got a rebuilt one for a lot less than that. Though, I'd be tempted to keep the old one for spares - or rebuild it myself in my spare time (you learn a lot about your kit by taking it apart and putting it back together).
I really don't have spare time. As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, included in that invoice, and above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehosing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill.
@@SearchingforCShels Yes, plus labour and all the other odds and ends really add up. even with a rebuilt 3208 for $20,000, you'd still be paying a lot more than that unless you do everything yourself. I fully repowered my 1990 Tollycraft 44 with new Cummins 5.9s a couple of years ago as the old Detroit blocks were toast and it cost double what you paid for the whole job but I did a lot of extras as well. With that and some other restoration work, my boat is like new and ready to go another 20-30 years and I have the peace of mind of running on new engines. I couldn't buy a boat that offers the same for the money.
It’s easy to second guess. We are at home they had to deal with this. These are two professionals with jobs they work and keep it moving. Trust me I’m sure they will be ok. We can help by telling our friends to become subs. I think they should have reached out to the subs for advice. Big time Marine shops here in NY charge 10k for a full rebuild engine and labor in NY is insane. I wouldn’t thank anyone of those shops they did them no favors. They charged them full retail. They
3208's are solid motors. I've known people that have run them past 15k hours, especially at that low of HP. I am on the West Coast, and some of the commercial boats have over 25k hours. Now 435 and 450hp are definitely to much HP for those blocks, but 375 hp you should have had a lot more hours than 3000k. I am in the middle of a rebuild on our Bertram's 6V92's, so I feel your pain! The one thing I've learned over time, is the preventative maintenance prevents catastrophic engine failure. I went 5 yrs with only; oil changes, coolant changes etc. Never thought about servicing all the coolers and aftercoolers. Now, once these engines are done, every two-three years we'll going to do a major service. I can't afford another rebuild. Keep up the good work and great videos!
They are great motors. I thought I did preventative maintenance on the engines over the years, however of course, it is the preventative maintenance you don't do or don't know to do that gets you in the end. Thanks Roger. Good luck with the rebuild.
Thank you for sharing. Appreciate the info. I just had the two 454 mercruisers rebuilt on my Sea Ray a year ago in Ontario. I can appreciate what you have been going through, although my bill was much less. That’s boat life! Wishing you many major maintenance free seasons!
Hi Shel and Cyndi. long time no hear. I replaced a 330 Hp Cummins with a reman for about 20K CDN then when the other side needed doing I got a Long Block and used the best parts of the two originals plus a reman Injector pump to assemble the second one doing most of the work myself in a corner of my local Cummins guys shop, a good friend, and letting him do the timing of the injector pump and the install on the boat. That one was a little over 10K CDN but now I have two great engines with 600 and 300 hours and I treat them very well so they should be good for my boating life. You guys keep on keeping on you hear. Gary from Frenchmans Bay
That's a lot of money in my opinion. Yes, I agree someone was taking their "cut" albeit a large one. Part of the problem is these places see a large boat and suddenly the bill becomes equally large. A 3208 crate engine is not that expensive and are generally available in plenty of places. Glad to see you survived the ordeal without scuttling the boat, but you did have to walk the plank.
We know this yard well. We’ve been going there for years now. They did what they could for us. As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehousing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill. Cheers Gary.
Guys we completely feel you and have already adjusted to the BOATT acronym. Just paid out 47K for a large refurbishment on our loa 40 consisting of 2 new VP transom assembles, rear engine seals , engine couplers, U-joints, sent out heat exchangers , genset work and more.The boat came to us through a friend passing last June and had to continue on his path:) 2000hrs and counting, so much to see this spring & summer on the west coast!
I'm a novice at this but I think you should get another bid. I've been researching boats myself and your video was a wake up call for me, thank you. It give me a lot more to look at if and when I get around to buying. Hope you can find a better deal and that you will be back on the water soon. Best regards...........
There are no other bids. The work is done. This is our yard we've been going to for years and have a trusted relationship with them. Trust, professionalism, and quality of work is really hard to come by in the marine industry. We are glad to have them.
Hey Sheldon, it is unfortunate, but you did everything right under the circumstances. People don't understand unless they are in your shoes. Great preventive maintenance on the port side while everything is accessible. The hind sight you talk about in the video will help others and when you are boating at the extremes you and Cindy are, people should listen and replace the gaskets and bolts. Its called experience! Happy journeys this spring and wish we were back in Stuart at Harborage. Steve & Karen. Deep R in Depth
I met you guys in Bimini Cove the day you pulled in blowing white smoke. I was in a Leopard 47. At the time, I owned a 1988 Sea Ray 415 which also had 2 3208T engines, 375hp. Had I known about this bill, I could have sold you the whole boat, (2 engines) for $40k!
That was A very large number to rebuild that engine.Rebuilt 3208 run from 10k to 20k without the pan and accessories. I believe that cost comes from the handoff/just fix it and call us when its done situation. Two kind of people in this world that own big boats. People who can fix things and people who can afford to pay other people to fix things. It is ALWAYS better to be the second option.
No people do deserve to get paid but 60000 to rebuild an engine. I had one in my boat done 20 years. Ago and I know times are different but it was only 6000 and it was a gas engine so I know it's a lot cheaper.
Shel, I feel for you (and Cyndi) and wish this didn't happen. But, $66k is crazy. A reman 3208 (marine, 375hp) is less than $20k with a one year warranty. Yes, you'd have to R&R it, but... something seems way off at $66k. Hope your health and engines are top notch and we see more videos from you two soon. Best wishes.
Thanks Brian. The bare rebuild (disassembly, removal, machined/internal parts replacement, and reinstall/reassembly) was probably in the high 40k range. Then add in the 2 aftercoolers, a fuel pump, rehose the other engine, and remove and ultrasonically clean the cooling system of the other engine along with a few other little things with the boat and you have the bill. It adds up quickly.
Always was unnerving thinking about a rebuild when we had our SR450DA. Thank goodness we never had a breakdown in 9 years of ownership. Great to see you guys are good to go again! GOD bless, JC
Dear friends. Never would I have imagined that rebuilding an engine would be so expensive! I was hoping you would have mentioned the price of a new engine to compare but regardless, I was happy to see you back posting videos! May the waves ahead of you be calm and peaceful (and bring money!)
The reason we didn't bring up a new engine is because you can't get a new 3208 anymore. So you can't just replace one engine, both have to go. That is new wiring harnesses, engine controls, probably new transmissions. Installed I can imagine it exceeding 200k USD. Thanks for the well wishes. Lets hope the future is bright. Cheers!
I had a Volvo D60 that needed rebuilding and was quoted $32K by a company in NC, I rebuilt it myself, I do have quite a few years working on enegines, for about half the cost, $14k. Labor is always the killer.
Thanks for the transparency, I live in the world of clasic cars and restoration costs can spiral in my world as well. One thing I took away from this was the importance of having a sleved diesel motor. The other is obviously preventitive maintence. Most issues with motors and salt water come from the coolant system and the only real way to know if there is anything odd going on involves pulling heat exchangers and exhaust flanges. If you pull them and pay for all that work only to find that everything is ok it feels like you wasted some money and time. On the otherhand when you do it and there is an issue it can save you some serious cash. At the end of the day it's a pay now or pay more later situation.
Just to add to my comment, records are worth so much money when it comes to anything mechanical. A previous diligant owner who records everything drives up the price but you get so much peice of mind and the end of the day.
Yikes! I will only purchase a live-aboard if the engines were recently rebuilt or still under warranty. Until then, I'll be cruising on the Potomac River with my pontoon boat with a 60hp motor with a replacement cost of $8K, and $65 for Mapp gas and Alumaweld rods for pontoon repairs. :-) Thank you for the share. A real eye-opener!
Wanted to add - well done on handling the negativity in the comments. I imagine if you've been doing it while even the calmest of folk must get frustrated. You have been clear, very open, and shared what must have been a rough blow, and taken time to consider alternatives and still the loons come after you. I imagine it's frightened people who don't want to face the reality with their own boat dreams. Don't let the buggers put you off. Subscribed :-)
thanks for your transparency and owning up to the actual cost. I went thru 2..yes 2 mid replacements on a 60ft last year.so I FEEL YOUR PAIN.. not as bad but feel it. I figured if i could get a few additional years of great memories with my family and improve the performance of my boat, with documented records for resale, it was all worth it. I enjoy watching your videos and wish you the happiest of travels on the open water, now with piece of mind ! Look forward to the next adventure and forget about the "toast" factor. ha
So sorry to hear the news. Sends shivers down my spine! I own a 1987 Sea Ranger trawler with twin CAT 3208T's (325 hp, no aftercoolers) with about 2.5K hours. In fact you saw our boat when we met at the marina in Stuart shortly after we bought her in June 2021. What price Freedom? Best of luck going forward.
Hi Lawrence. Nice to hear from you. Sorry for the shivers. lol Have the head gaskets been replaced? If not, maybe plan for it in future preventative maintenance. Cheers!
That's more than I thought it was going to be. My wife and I have always kind of calculated that it would be about thirty-five to forty thousand dollars if we ever had to rebuild one of our diesel motors. And ours does have sleeves, so we always figured it would be done in the boat. And I'm retired now, so I'd probably seriously consider taking a diesel course and doing it myself! But that's definitely the thing that keeps me up at night is the idea of having to write that check. In the end, more anchoring out, less eating out, and you're good to go for a few years!
Yes if you are retired it is definitely something you can do if its a sleeved motor. Its MUCH easier than most think. It just takes time and attention to detail
I have Ford Lehman engines, had to replace both of them, but was able to buy overhauled blocks for 5000 usd each. Had to add new elbows and an exhaust/inlet manifold, but was lucky that I can move the whole engine through the door of the salon and then down the open hatch in the salon. That saved a ton of work, but in the end still spent about 35.000 to get the work done. And they were overcharging me with about 50 %. That was the one thing I learned about our marina, they love to overcharge. Parts they bought for X they tried to sell them to me for three times that price. So sourced them myself, that saved quite a bit. But they still took me with the hours, almost identical to lawyers, writing with a fork. Anyway, it was a lot of money, but not as much as your experience. Hope your engine will be running fine for the next 15.000 hours
Sorry to hear about this. Yes, the Lehmans are cheaper to maintain and even buy than the CATs. I love those engines. How many hours did you have on them before you replaced them?
@@SearchingforCShels Did not have too many hours, around 6000 (they had at least another 19.000 to 25.000 left) and they were perfectly fine, they had just received a complete service.............until someone decided to run the engine in winter time and 'forgot' to open the sea cocks. That was the end of our engines.
I feel your pain a bit. I had an estimate to do a 1,000 service on my cats of $9,000 if all is well. It was not well. 2 new aftercoolers at $5,000 each plus pressure testing and cleaning the other cooler and turbo, was told $19,000. In the end some hoses replaced and final bill of $27,000 usd. That was a shocker for us. Are you going to head north this year?
Yes, it adds up fast doesn't it. Sorry to hear. Not sure what we are going to do this Summer. We do know we are going to try to hop over to the Bahamas soon.
Ouch Ouch Ouch! Wow, that is a whopper of a boat repair bill. I have heard the CAT 3208's are fairly bulletproof, at least in the 375 hp and below versions. The 435 hp version of the 3208 is notorious for failing as it is too stressed. But your tale makes it clear that 3208's are bulletproof only if they receive expensive, thorough, preventative maintenance. I hope you spend the cruising season chugging along with no mechanical issues!
I have CAT 3126's (1997) and just did the aftercoolers myself. One failed the pressure test. Now you have me wondering about the head gaskets and bolts. Now I'm scared and will need someone to rock me to sleep for the next several nights.
3126s are different engines so I can't really give any advice here. Do what you need to do to sleep peacefully my friend. I would check the maintenance intervals for the engine and see when the head gaskets should be replaced.
You just have to keep in mind that people that own boat yards are pirates that went ashore. I'm sure there are exceptions but after close to 50 years of boating I haven't found one yet. I look forward to following your next adventures.
Wowieee!!! What can go wrong will go wrong and … on a boat …. its gonna cost ya. Plus for our Canadian friends the current $$$ exchange rate is a killer. And I thought our home’s new roof a few years ago was pricy. We have enjoyed watching your adventures over the years, the Mrs. and I send you best wishes for smooth seas and a mechanically trouble free cruising season.
Actually, the couple on Sailing Good, Bad, and Ugly bought their sail boat on Craig's list for $5000. Since then they have put put money into it by completely refinishing the hull and then later refinishing the interior. Also they they put in a new diesel engine. A small diesel of around 30 horsepower that does what they need it to do. They pretty much restrict their sailing and exploring with in the Caribbean area.
WOW that was a hard one to swallow But seems like everything has went sky high after Covid!! I have the same engines 1982egg harbor 42 " aft cabin crusier\very greatful for the info Im defiantly going to follow your advice thanks for sharing Wishing you great fun safe crusin!!goodluck
Hi guys, Wow! I was expecting the repair to be expensive, but not that expensive. Boats are a ton of fun, but are sometimes costly to maintain. My brother-in-law had the rubber seals on his exhaust flappers fail, when we shut down the engine after a long run it sucked up water into the engine and hydro locked it, $8000.00 US to rebuild, it was a 7.4 liter Mercruiser. Looking forward to your new adventures, praying you have smooth sailing and no issues.
Yes, it was expensive, but as mentioned in the video there are other things in the invoice for the other engine that adds up. Yes, a gas engine is much cheaper to rebuild, though 8000 seems like a really good deal. Thanks and Cheers!
We had a similar incident on our gas-powered cruiser in 2001. It threw the water pump belt on one of the engines going down the icw. Wasn't really a good place to replace the belt so I kept going for a couple hours then we pulled over, and replaced it and found the engine wouldn't turn. We had taken a wave, apparently up the exhaust pipe and water locked the engine. $7000 later, it was all fixed! The first thing I did was go out and buy flappers for the exhaust.
If owning a yacht was fun everyone would do it. LOL. Been there before, I had to rebuild twin 12 cylinder at one time. By the end I was thinking I should have just bought another boat. Glad your back up and running. Now take a month to relax and get your money's worth.
I'd say that was a good price! I just paid $13k for a new heat exchanger on the port side, (new exchanger and expansion tank alone was $3900) and flushing and servicing of both engines, plus a lot of other misc. items for about 4 days work and two pages of parts. But, that was in Key West. I have the same motors as you. Do you remember the size requirements to get it out of your side door? I don't have a side door so it would have to go out the back doors, side window or cut a hole (please no...). BTW, is your new motor using any oil? Mine run great, but they do use oil.
The rebuilt one doesn't use oil. I think the pistons and rings are different than what were original to the engine. 3208s are known to burn a little oil. Both of my engines before the rebuild burned about a quart every 8-12 hours of running. Especially low RPM running. The unrebuilt one still does this. Can't remember the width requirement for the door, but I couldn't believe they fit it through. The engine was completely stripped down. If I was near the boat I'd measure the door for you. It is expensive, and those in the comment section saying they could get this done for so much less are living in another time and another place. Cheers friend!
@@SearchingforCShels you’re right about the costs. I’d be pleased to do what you did, but I don’t have side doors. My 48 Jefferson looks a lot like your boat with the cockpit but we have no side door. We’d with have to remove the windows or cut a hole in the hull. So my question is, do I just keep chugging along (we put over 11,000 NM’s in the last 4 years) and upgrading (I added bow thrusters, new electronics, lots of maintenance and new engine parts) or buy another boat with engines that can be rebuilt? This boat is paid for. A newer would not be. Build the dreamboat or buy the dreamboat? Love your channel and hope to see you all in the Bahamas this year. We only had a month there this year.
Keep chugging along I say. The cheapest boat is the one you have. That is if budget is of concern to you. That is unless you feel that a rebuild is closing in on you. How many hours on your CATs? I'd say it is easier to remove the windows if you need to rebuild. The salon windows in the Tolly I have were sized to remove the engine.
@@SearchingforCShels 3300 hours. Yea, at this stage in life, 63, it’s a tough one. I’d have to get a loan, but that’s very manageable. The one thing missing on this boat that can’t be added is stabilizers but we can also wait for smoother days! If I am sure that I can have these rebuilt it wouldn’t be throwing money out the window to continue improving this one. I would think my windows would be much wider than your door. But the height? We spend a lot of time at our lake home teaching our kids and grandkids boating skills on the pontoon and wave runners, then our main house is in Nashville and now we find that as we are newly empty nesters, (4 daughters), our favorite place is on the big boat cruising. We are a third of the way finished with the Loop, but are heading back to do Key West and the Bahamas again before heading north. It’s just too beautiful.
No means to be disrespectful, most comments are spot on 66k seems exceptionally out of wack. I have two 3208s as well. Now difference is mine will lift straight up and out of the boat not requiring any tear down in the boat. But a new motor is less the. 20k. I get the yard went to the extra steps of replacing things while it was apart. I’ll not fault them for those things. But it could have been done for less.
I said it in the video that It may have been done for less, but not much. The cost of the tear down, removal , reman, reinstall, was in the upper 40s. The rest of the money was parts and service mostly of the other engine. Do you know how much a new aftercooler costs? And I got two of them. If you are going to get a yard to do this work, this is what you are going to pay this day and age.
Wow! Ouch! Holly cow! I love outboards. Love the honesty of your videos. Not many cruisers of 35' or more feet with outboards. Then gas is also less MPG.
To properly rebuild the engine you need to have the engine tanked and check for cracks. To skip this you would be wasting your money. Prevention is always the best way protect your investment. Most people work on out of side out of mind. That can be a costly mistake. Glad you were able to have a great place look over the boat and handle the details for you. Including sea trail that is important for you and them. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Thanks. This is our yard we've been going to for years and have a trusted relationship with them. Trust, professionalism, and quality of work is really hard to come by in the marine industry. Priceless really. We are glad to have them. BS Machine shop is known as one of the best on the eastern seaboard.
Dang , I'm an owner operator, I never get out of the shop without forking out over 10 grand , plus the lost revenue witch is about 6 to 10 grand a week . I get an oil sample checked every quarter I get my overhead ran yearly I sell my trucks before the inflame is due . An oil sample at your last service may have let you know before the failure
OMG!!! The old saying "A boat is a hole in the water you throw money into" comes to mind. You sure have put some miles on that boat. Let's hope they did the work like pros, and they last forever.
Hey there we just started listening to your channel We are in contact with a tollycraft 45. And coincidentally which it went to New Bern north Carolina. I remember seeing this video last week and remembered what had happened with your engines!! Are engine hours are at 3400.
We're waiting for survey. We were able to talk to the mechanic surveyor and he said that we definitely need a thousand hour and the coolers need to be addressed. Your video is a godsend because it really made us diligent about looking at what is really important and that is those engines other than that the boat needs just a little cosmetic clean up and she'll be ready to go on the loop
Learned a lot from your painful transparency. Especially the CDN$ conversion pain. Been here in the US for 23 years and its not pretty even now. I have a property near Stuart and appreciate your referral to Forest River. Have referred you folks to others so lets hope you get the increased subscribers. Safe adventures!
This is our yard we've been going to for years and have a trusted relationship with them. Trust, professionalism, and quality of work is really hard to come by in the marine industry. Priceless really. We are glad to have them.
Good to know. We’re not in the boat market - yet. Once we are full time in FL we will be buying a used boat. Have watched thousands of hours of boating videos. Shel’s description many moons ago off why he bought a Tollycraft was insightful. Seaworthiness etc. I try to absorb tid bits from all the various videographers. Even though we won’t be looking for anything over 40ft. We keep looking and waiting for that day. God bless and clear weather!
Is there any possibility that because you have your you tube business you can write off the expenses of the rebuild? The boat is part of that business expense I would imagine ?
I wish I have known you were going to stick with the 3208s I would’ve tried to talk to you about a re-power for another $30,000 you could’ve had a pair of C series Cummins installed with liners that would be faster and more fuel efficient. Well, anyway, from here on out service, your inner coolers, every two years to avoid those type of problems again regardless of hours
Can't imagine what your fuel costs must be. Cruising sailboats also have to run their engines on a regular basis. It's not the free ride most people envision when they believe they are leaving their land-locked troubles behind when they buy a boat.
True, there are no free rides. Actually fuel costs are not what you might think. Probably the least of all our cruising expenses. 3.5 GPH at 8 knots, which is what we cruise at mainly.
Wow! 66K!.. I don’t believe there is anything you could have done to prevent this though, possibly a head gasket change but that wouldn’t stop a coolant water leak getting into the engine exhaust system via a manifold issue (for example).. please tell me you put in the 3ring pistons instead of the old 2 ring type the cat 3208 used to have. A blown head gasket almost always damages on the of the 2-ring pistons, then the engines smoke. I sent you an email a while back when you announced this issue.. I am going through the same scenario but I am retired with time to do it myself. I have just completed both engines including fitting liners etc.. I’ll send you an updated email with all my costs… I wonder how much the labour charges of that 66K were?
Yes, replaced with 3 ring pistons. The bare rebuild (disassembly, removal, machined/internal parts replacement, and reinstall/reassembly) was probably in the high 40k range. Then add in the 2 aftercoolers, a fuel pump, rehose the other engine, and remove and ultrasonically clean the cooling system of the other engine.
I just saw this, and made a mental note of your comments of possibly saving money by preventative maintenance and by having the rebuild done in the boat. I'll share that I bought a turbodiesel pickup in 2010 for the purpose of towing my yet-to-buy pocket cruiser boat (selling everything to buy Mainship 390 next year). It is a 2000 and had a lot of hours on the engine, so I learned what could kill the engine and had all of that serviced. One item was the oil cooler, which if it failed - would dump coolant into the oil. I also inspected the aftercooler - but a truck aftercooler does not have sea water to threaten it. Oil cooler was replaced as a preventative measure, as well as all hoses (including power steering/brake pressure hoses). It was a little expensive - but not a LOT expensive. I compression tested my engine to know all was solid. I think a compression test on your engine would have exposed the issue you had - very inexpensive and quick test. On the topic of rebuilding in the boat - you've been in the engine room. You know that working in there takes 3 to 5 times longer to work on anything than if it's out in the open. That's billable hours - best to pull the engine and have full access. Besides, the milling machine won't fit in the boat.
Thanks for your perspective. Greatly appreciated. A lot of diesel engines are sleeved. Therefore no milling has to happen, you just replace the sleeves in the engine. Also we did a compression test on the after coolers (even the one that was leaking) they withstood the test pressure, but somehow over the long storage period it leaked. Cheers!
OK. This is frightening. I have had to remove and rebuild a Cummins engines on a previous boat (Tiara). My current boat has 2x 3412e Caterpillar 27 liter engines. Just getting one out would likely cost more than your rebuild. Here's the thing though - they are NOT raw water cooled (my Cummins were of course and suffered a similar fate to your caterpillar). Apparently Caterpillar only made them coolant-cooled for a short period (all the heat exchanges are coolant fed). This does seem like a better design. Raw water to air intercoolers are scary. Check your zincs people.
do you send in your oil to CAT for evaluation? I do it every 75 - 100 hours. Not sure it would have helped, but it might provide good tell tale signes.... I have Cat 3126s in mine. Keep Cruising!!!
I spun a bearing , pushed a connective rod out of the side of the block. no rebuild possible. I bought a fresh rebuild from BOMAC in Florida 7500 for total motor, and 11k for de and reinstall. the difference is I have lehman's
I’m going to disagree with most here. Considering all the work you had done , the parts required and man hours the bill seems reasonable. I am neither rich or a boat yard owner by the way. Diesels their parts and accessory parts are expensive and unfortunately CAT parts for that engine are even higher. I bet there were more than 30k in parts alone. The tools, skills and experience required to rebuild a cat diesel (or most any diesel) are in another league compared to their gas counterparts. What you guys got was not only a rebuild but a catch up on maintenance that was due or overdue and peace of mind that you are as ready as possible to go back to sea. Oh and a steep reminder that recommended maintenance isn’t a suggestion with diesels. 90k is a lot of money for almost anything so I’m not minimizing the outlay. To get the most from your boating life I suggest that you put it behind you and enjoy your boat to the fullest. Good to see a video from you guys and Sheldon looking so good.
Thank you. This is a very reasonable assessment. As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, included in that invoice, and above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehosing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill as well.
Just had two gas engines go bad in our 300ec. Ecm ran fuel pumps and filled crankcase with gas. 28k to replace both 300hp engines. And I won't get 10,000 hours like you will! My boat mechanic pointed out the "two, three and ten thousand" acronyms a couple years ago. Ha. Ha. But, as we boat owners know, it's worth every penny. You can't take it with you. Life is about the experience.
I rebuild engines and Italian Super Yacht Tenders in the range of 250k for a 23 foot boat. Normally a complete engine rebuild is about 2/3 parts to labor ratio. BTW 23 foot Castoldi jet tender has a 370 hp Yanmar.... Craziness
Been buzzing around your content - great stuff - Im due to view a Jefferson 46 this weekend in Portugal that has cat 3208's - the owner for last 10 years tells me that one is blowing some smoke. He's been told it's a 1500 Euro/ Dollar job. Listening to this Im getting alarmed - I for sure dont have 66k in the cruising kitty. Do you think a proper engine survey by an engine expert (rather than a generalist boat surveyor) would have been able to get ahead of this?
Is it blowing smoke all the time? What color is it? How many hours on the engines? Which version of the 3208 is it? It could be a 1500 dollar job, but I wouldn't take the boat without them fixing it. If it is 1500 why isn't it fixed before selling and showing the boat? 1500 is peanuts in maintaining a 46 foot yacht. It could be just a bad injector, which wouldn't be too expensive. How does he really know it is a 1500 dollar job? Has anyone had the engine apart? That is the only way to know. And if it was apart, way wasn't it fixed at that time? Some red flags here and lots of questions.
@@SearchingforCShels That's really helpful thanks - I was kind of sleep walking into it until I saw your story. I'd probably been thinking vaguely along the lines of some of the more negative responses to your video e.g. just buy a new one or repower etc but your calm responses to those suggestions have firmly closed that door). The current owner is getting frail in his 80's, and it's an urgent sale, he had been doing a lot of his own work. I will dig into the points you raise before travelling to view it and also do some more research on bulletin boards etc.. Your $1500 = peanuts is another a wake-up call - do you have a rough figure for yearly essential upkeep (or a video on that?) - excluding e.g. mooring, fuel, cosmetics? Cheers, Paul
Yes we have a playlist with the costs of this lifestyle. You should budget for minimum 10% of the value of the boat for planned maintenance. Have more put aside for surprises. Remember though most of that content is before Covid, and as you know everything has gone up since then. th-cam.com/play/PLbuTTI_DH-F0Dm9n7p2-v_zHNGDt7E2xW.html
Ouch. That hurt I"M sure. If I had a choice I had rather have sleeved cylinders I don't think I knew the 3208 weren't sleeved. I think that same job would be cheaper here. Maybe not a lot I know everything has gone up a lot since the pandemic. You should be good to go engine wise I would think for a long time now. Good luck to you this year!
To replace a head gasket, the engine does NOT has to be removed. Sorry for your luck, I hope you were questioned the bill.... perhaps seeking some legal advise ?
Ouch….hurts for sure. But……a hazard of the lifestyle. Most people don’t understand is that we are actually broke because we boat. Can’t dwell on it……LET’S GO BOATING!
I have just completed more external work on my 3208’s, oil cooler, raw water pump - manifolds and new risers (stainless) my engine hours are at 6,000 these are NA engines do you feel the same issue you faced could be in my future?
It's great you are keeping ahead of the maintenance. I have not known that the 3208N engine having much of an issue with head gaskets. You don't have an aftercooler hanging over the heads either like I do. However, like I said in the video, If there is no history of head gasket replacement for your engine I'd think about doing that. I'm sure the head gasket is suppose to be replaced long before 6000 hours.
Feel for you guys to begin the cat 3208 turbo charge engine where push to there limits at 300 plus horse power the original design where natural aspirated no turbo those usually last a bit longer however from the beginning it was a bad design no sleeves and to ad insult to injury one compression ring no other diesel or gasoline engine has this future that's why they call them throw away engines for the money you spend i would have re power with Cummings c series twin disk 507 with the largest reduction to be able to fit the biggest diameter propeller maybe 2 to 1 reduction or more anyway happy boating hope these 3208 last a life time
We appreciate your comment. I don't think there was any way to get my engine room gutted, 2 new Cummins and new transmissions installed, rewire for anything near what we paid. Maybe 10-20 years ago, not now, not in the future.
As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehosing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill.
seeing how a long block can be bought for 12 thousand and when you add the ton of other work involved in your engine repair and repairs to the other engine 66K is actually not that bad taken into account now the plus side if the engine was rebuilt properly it actually should be better than a brand new factory engine providing they used superior parts
Another very reasonable comment. Thank you. This is our yard we've been going to for years and have a trusted relationship with them. Trust, professionalism, and quality of work is really hard to come by in the marine industry. Priceless really. We are glad to have them. As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, included in that invoice, and above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehosing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill.
Did you look into new engines? Sounds like you spent more rebuilding than buying a new one. You also could have looked at different manufacturers and fewer cylinders that produce the same hp? Fewer cylinders and less weight equal better performance. Just curious, like you said hindsight is 20/20
A new engine would require two new engines. I can't buy a new 3208. There is no way the removal of these two engines, and installation of 2 new ones, with wiring and controls and everything else I can't think of, would be as cheap as one engine rebuild.
That would be a big decision but you're right if you started at the head gaskets for both engines you would have all that covered on a good point but,,, and dropping it off it would have been only 20,000,,,,, it sounds like you learn what you need to learn
O.M.G. I hate to say it but I do believe that they saw you coming. I feel your pain. I don't know the details however that price....I've been in boats most all my 70+ years and I've never even heard of the fleshing that you poor folks got. SOMETHING just don't smell right.
You could've bought a newly rebuilt 3208 for less than $20,000. In fact, you could've swapped in your broken motor and got a rebuilt one for a lot less than that. Though, I'd be tempted to keep the old one for spares - or rebuild it myself in my spare time (you learn a lot about your kit by taking it apart and putting it back together).
I really don't have spare time.
As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, included in that invoice, and above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehosing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill.
@@SearchingforCShels Yes, plus labour and all the other odds and ends really add up. even with a rebuilt 3208 for $20,000, you'd still be paying a lot more than that unless you do everything yourself. I fully repowered my 1990 Tollycraft 44 with new Cummins 5.9s a couple of years ago as the old Detroit blocks were toast and it cost double what you paid for the whole job but I did a lot of extras as well. With that and some other restoration work, my boat is like new and ready to go another 20-30 years and I have the peace of mind of running on new engines. I couldn't buy a boat that offers the same for the money.
😮
It’s easy to second guess. We are at home they had to deal with this. These are two professionals with jobs they work and keep it moving. Trust me I’m sure they will be ok. We can help by telling our friends to become subs. I think they should have reached out to the subs for advice. Big time Marine shops here in NY charge 10k for a full rebuild engine and labor in NY is insane.
I wouldn’t thank anyone of those shops they did them no favors. They charged them full retail. They
It's great to have you guys back doing videos on TH-cam. Good luck for the future.
Thanks so much!
3208's are solid motors. I've known people that have run them past 15k hours, especially at that low of HP. I am on the West Coast, and some of the commercial boats have over 25k hours. Now 435 and 450hp are definitely to much HP for those blocks, but 375 hp you should have had a lot more hours than 3000k. I am in the middle of a rebuild on our Bertram's 6V92's, so I feel your pain! The one thing I've learned over time, is the preventative maintenance prevents catastrophic engine failure. I went 5 yrs with only; oil changes, coolant changes etc. Never thought about servicing all the coolers and aftercoolers. Now, once these engines are done, every two-three years we'll going to do a major service. I can't afford another rebuild. Keep up the good work and great videos!
They are great motors. I thought I did preventative maintenance on the engines over the years, however of course, it is the preventative maintenance you don't do or don't know to do that gets you in the end. Thanks Roger. Good luck with the rebuild.
Hey, you did it, it's done. The boat will outlive all of us. Enjoy!
Thank you for sharing. Appreciate the info. I just had the two 454 mercruisers rebuilt on my Sea Ray a year ago in Ontario. I can appreciate what you have been going through, although my bill was much less. That’s boat life! Wishing you many major maintenance free seasons!
Thanks Ryan. Sorry to hear about your rebuilds.
Curious. What did the rebuild on the 454 cost and who did it? Might need that info in the future!
Hopefully going forward you both will enjoy the boat and make many more great memories!
We hope so too!
Hope you guys are well! Cheers!
Hard to enjoy a money pit.
Hi Shel and Cyndi. long time no hear. I replaced a 330 Hp Cummins with a reman for about 20K CDN then when the other side needed doing I got a Long Block and used the best parts of the two originals plus a reman Injector pump to assemble the second one doing most of the work myself in a corner of my local Cummins guys shop, a good friend, and letting him do the timing of the injector pump and the install on the boat. That one was a little over 10K CDN but now I have two great engines with 600 and 300 hours and I treat them very well so they should be good for my boating life. You guys keep on keeping on you hear. Gary from Frenchmans Bay
That's a lot of money in my opinion. Yes, I agree someone was taking their "cut" albeit a large one. Part of the problem is these places see a large boat and suddenly the bill becomes equally large. A 3208 crate engine is not that expensive and are generally available in plenty of places. Glad to see you survived the ordeal without scuttling the boat, but you did have to walk the plank.
We know this yard well. We’ve been going there for years now. They did what they could for us. As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehousing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill. Cheers Gary.
Guys we completely feel you and have already adjusted to the BOATT acronym. Just paid out 47K for a large refurbishment on our loa 40 consisting of 2 new VP transom assembles, rear engine seals , engine couplers, U-joints, sent out heat exchangers , genset work and more.The boat came to us through a friend passing last June and had to continue on his path:) 2000hrs and counting, so much to see this spring & summer on the west coast!
I'm a novice at this but I think you should get another bid. I've been researching boats myself and your video was a wake up call for me, thank you. It give me a lot more to look at if and when I get around to buying. Hope you can find a better deal and that you will be back on the water soon. Best regards...........
There are no other bids. The work is done. This is our yard we've been going to for years and have a trusted relationship with them. Trust, professionalism, and quality of work is really hard to come by in the marine industry. We are glad to have them.
Hey Sheldon, it is unfortunate, but you did everything right under the circumstances. People don't understand unless they are in your shoes. Great preventive maintenance on the port side while everything is accessible. The hind sight you talk about in the video will help others and when you are boating at the extremes you and Cindy are, people should listen and replace the gaskets and bolts. Its called experience! Happy journeys this spring and wish we were back in Stuart at Harborage. Steve & Karen. Deep R in Depth
Thanks guys. We just hope people can learn from our mistakes. Hope you guys are doing well. Cheers!
I met you guys in Bimini Cove the day you pulled in blowing white smoke. I was in a Leopard 47. At the time, I owned a 1988 Sea Ray 415 which also had 2 3208T engines, 375hp. Had I known about this bill, I could have sold you the whole boat, (2 engines) for $40k!
lol Cheers John.
It was great meeting you both today. I can't believe that we just stumbled on to you. Take care. Paul and Kim Poz
That was A very large number to rebuild that engine.Rebuilt 3208 run from 10k to 20k without the pan and accessories.
I believe that cost comes from the handoff/just fix it and call us when its done situation.
Two kind of people in this world that own big boats. People who can fix things and people who can afford to pay other people to fix things.
It is ALWAYS better to be the second option.
you can't expect to hire good people and then think they work for free , do you work for free ?
No people do deserve to get paid but 60000 to rebuild an engine. I had one in my boat done 20 years. Ago and I know times are different but it was only 6000 and it was a gas engine so I know it's a lot cheaper.
@@richpickard1680 guy orders a steak dinner it was 20 dollars but the check was 100 dollars ,
Shel, I feel for you (and Cyndi) and wish this didn't happen. But, $66k is crazy. A reman 3208 (marine, 375hp) is less than $20k with a one year warranty. Yes, you'd have to R&R it, but... something seems way off at $66k. Hope your health and engines are top notch and we see more videos from you two soon. Best wishes.
Thanks Brian. The bare rebuild (disassembly, removal, machined/internal parts replacement, and reinstall/reassembly) was probably in the high 40k range. Then add in the 2 aftercoolers, a fuel pump, rehose the other engine, and remove and ultrasonically clean the cooling system of the other engine along with a few other little things with the boat and you have the bill. It adds up quickly.
Always was unnerving thinking about a rebuild when we had our SR450DA. Thank goodness we never had a breakdown in 9 years of ownership. Great to see you guys are good to go again! GOD bless, JC
Dear friends. Never would I have imagined that rebuilding an engine would be so expensive! I was hoping you would have mentioned the price of a new engine to compare but regardless, I was happy to see you back posting videos! May the waves ahead of you be calm and peaceful (and bring money!)
The reason we didn't bring up a new engine is because you can't get a new 3208 anymore. So you can't just replace one engine, both have to go. That is new wiring harnesses, engine controls, probably new transmissions. Installed I can imagine it exceeding 200k USD.
Thanks for the well wishes. Lets hope the future is bright. Cheers!
I had a Volvo D60 that needed rebuilding and was quoted $32K by a company in NC, I rebuilt it myself, I do have quite a few years working on enegines, for about half the cost, $14k. Labor is always the killer.
@@charlescoates6661 an electric conversion kit about 10 to 12 grand.. why not change out and go all electric ??
Hate that happened to you guys. Glad it didn't sink your adventures. Thanks for the info and the videos.
Sorry to hear guys. Glad to see you posting videos again tho!
Thanks.
Thanks for the transparency, I live in the world of clasic cars and restoration costs can spiral in my world as well. One thing I took away from this was the importance of having a sleved diesel motor. The other is obviously preventitive maintence. Most issues with motors and salt water come from the coolant system and the only real way to know if there is anything odd going on involves pulling heat exchangers and exhaust flanges. If you pull them and pay for all that work only to find that everything is ok it feels like you wasted some money and time. On the otherhand when you do it and there is an issue it can save you some serious cash. At the end of the day it's a pay now or pay more later situation.
Just to add to my comment, records are worth so much money when it comes to anything mechanical. A previous diligant owner who records everything drives up the price but you get so much peice of mind and the end of the day.
Thank you for being so transparent most boating channels. Don't tell about the bad you? Guys. Tell? It. All that's great?
Yachting ain't cheap! but the memories are priceless.... Abaco is calling!
Yikes! I will only purchase a live-aboard if the engines were recently rebuilt or still under warranty. Until then, I'll be cruising on the Potomac River with my pontoon boat with a 60hp motor with a replacement cost of $8K, and $65 for Mapp gas and Alumaweld rods for pontoon repairs. :-) Thank you for the share. A real eye-opener!
Yes, keep it simple if you can.
Wanted to add - well done on handling the negativity in the comments. I imagine if you've been doing it while even the calmest of folk must get frustrated. You have been clear, very open, and shared what must have been a rough blow, and taken time to consider alternatives and still the loons come after you. I imagine it's frightened people who don't want to face the reality with their own boat dreams. Don't let the buggers put you off. Subscribed :-)
Thank you for your kind words. 🙏 We appreciate you watching and subbing. Good luck in your boat search.
Wow!! That was definitely more expensive than I expected! Glad you two are not toast yet though. Happy cruising!!
Not yet... lol Cheers!
Thank you for sharing! So sorry to hear of this costly bill. Prayers for smooth cruising here on forward. No toasted anything!
Thanks Amy.
Welcome back, and great attitude. In the immortal words of Dori...Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming!!!!
Always great advice. Dori is a wise soul. 👍
thanks for your transparency and owning up to the actual cost. I went thru 2..yes 2 mid replacements on a 60ft last year.so I FEEL YOUR PAIN.. not as bad but feel it. I figured if i could get a few additional years of great memories with my family and improve the performance of my boat, with documented records for resale, it was all worth it. I enjoy watching your videos and wish you the happiest of travels on the open water, now with piece of mind ! Look forward to the next adventure and forget about the "toast" factor. ha
Thank you so much for the uplifting comment Scott. Sorry you went through some of the same. Cheers!
So sorry to hear the news. Sends shivers down my spine! I own a 1987 Sea Ranger trawler with twin CAT 3208T's (325 hp, no aftercoolers) with about 2.5K hours. In fact you saw our boat when we met at the marina in Stuart shortly after we bought her in June 2021. What price Freedom? Best of luck going forward.
Hi Lawrence. Nice to hear from you. Sorry for the shivers. lol Have the head gaskets been replaced? If not, maybe plan for it in future preventative maintenance. Cheers!
This type of maintenance is what scares me about owning a cruising boat. At least now you should be good for some more cruising.
This is why we share this kind of info. We want people coming into this lifestyle with eyes wide open.
Yes, hoping we are good for a while. Cheers!
I hope it comes with a solid warranty for your protection
My low end boat engine repair shop charges $150 an hour. I do as much maintenance on my engine as I can.
That's more than I thought it was going to be. My wife and I have always kind of calculated that it would be about thirty-five to forty thousand dollars if we ever had to rebuild one of our diesel motors. And ours does have sleeves, so we always figured it would be done in the boat. And I'm retired now, so I'd probably seriously consider taking a diesel course and doing it myself! But that's definitely the thing that keeps me up at night is the idea of having to write that check. In the end, more anchoring out, less eating out, and you're good to go for a few years!
40K sounds close for a rebuild in place. I hope you never need to do it. Yes, we will be living a little more fugally for a few years. 😀 Cheers Ralph.
Yes if you are retired it is definitely something you can do if its a sleeved motor. Its MUCH easier than most think. It just takes time and attention to detail
I have Ford Lehman engines, had to replace both of them, but was able to buy overhauled blocks for 5000 usd each. Had to add new elbows and an exhaust/inlet manifold, but was lucky that I can move the whole engine through the door of the salon and then down the open hatch in the salon. That saved a ton of work, but in the end still spent about 35.000 to get the work done. And they were overcharging me with about 50 %. That was the one thing I learned about our marina, they love to overcharge. Parts they bought for X they tried to sell them to me for three times that price. So sourced them myself, that saved quite a bit. But they still took me with the hours, almost identical to lawyers, writing with a fork. Anyway, it was a lot of money, but not as much as your experience. Hope your engine will be running fine for the next 15.000 hours
Sorry to hear about this. Yes, the Lehmans are cheaper to maintain and even buy than the CATs. I love those engines. How many hours did you have on them before you replaced them?
@@SearchingforCShels Did not have too many hours, around 6000 (they had at least another 19.000 to 25.000 left) and they were perfectly fine, they had just received a complete service.............until someone decided to run the engine in winter time and 'forgot' to open the sea cocks. That was the end of our engines.
ouch.
I feel your pain a bit. I had an estimate to do a 1,000 service on my cats of $9,000 if all is well. It was not well. 2 new aftercoolers at $5,000 each plus pressure testing and cleaning the other cooler and turbo, was told $19,000. In the end some hoses replaced and final bill of $27,000 usd. That was a shocker for us. Are you going to head north this year?
Yes, it adds up fast doesn't it. Sorry to hear. Not sure what we are going to do this Summer. We do know we are going to try to hop over to the Bahamas soon.
Ouch Ouch Ouch! Wow, that is a whopper of a boat repair bill. I have heard the CAT 3208's are fairly bulletproof, at least in the 375 hp and below versions. The 435 hp version of the 3208 is notorious for failing as it is too stressed. But your tale makes it clear that 3208's are bulletproof only if they receive expensive, thorough, preventative maintenance.
I hope you spend the cruising season chugging along with no mechanical issues!
Thanks John. Yes, extensive preventative maintenance is the key.
Can you tell me what camera/cameras you guys generally use? Your shots are so crisp and clean!
99.000 that’s a lot of money for a new boat I would of fixed that $50 head gasket on your old boat ,loved your older boat got a lot of character 👍
i was wondering what happened to you guys. i know boating is expensive because i had a lot of boats over the years nice to see that your back
I have CAT 3126's (1997) and just did the aftercoolers myself. One failed the pressure test. Now you have me wondering about the head gaskets and bolts. Now I'm scared and will need someone to rock me to sleep for the next several nights.
3126s are different engines so I can't really give any advice here. Do what you need to do to sleep peacefully my friend. I would check the maintenance intervals for the engine and see when the head gaskets should be replaced.
You just have to keep in mind that people that own boat yards are pirates that went ashore. I'm sure there are exceptions but after close to 50 years of boating I haven't found one yet. I look forward to following your next adventures.
Lol, we are all pirates. 😆 Thanks Dan.
Wowieee!!! What can go wrong will go wrong and … on a boat …. its gonna cost ya. Plus for our Canadian friends the current $$$ exchange rate is a killer. And I thought our home’s new roof a few years ago was pricy. We have enjoyed watching your adventures over the years, the Mrs. and I send you best wishes for smooth seas and a mechanically trouble free cruising season.
Thank you. The exchange rate is certainly a killer.
Actually, the couple on Sailing Good, Bad, and Ugly bought their sail boat on Craig's list for $5000. Since then they have put put money into it by completely refinishing the hull and then later refinishing the interior. Also they they put in a new diesel engine. A small diesel of around 30 horsepower that does what they need it to do. They pretty much restrict their sailing and exploring with in the Caribbean area.
WOW that was a hard one to swallow But seems like everything has went sky high after Covid!! I have the same engines 1982egg harbor 42 " aft cabin crusier\very greatful for the info Im defiantly going to follow your advice thanks for sharing Wishing you great fun safe crusin!!goodluck
Hi guys, Wow! I was expecting the repair to be expensive, but not that expensive. Boats are a ton of fun, but are sometimes costly to maintain. My brother-in-law had the rubber seals on his exhaust flappers fail, when we shut down the engine after a long run it sucked up water into the engine and hydro locked it, $8000.00 US to rebuild, it was a 7.4 liter Mercruiser. Looking forward to your new adventures, praying you have smooth sailing and no issues.
Yes, it was expensive, but as mentioned in the video there are other things in the invoice for the other engine that adds up. Yes, a gas engine is much cheaper to rebuild, though 8000 seems like a really good deal. Thanks and Cheers!
We had a similar incident on our gas-powered cruiser in 2001. It threw the water pump belt on one of the engines going down the icw. Wasn't really a good place to replace the belt so I kept going for a couple hours then we pulled over, and replaced it and found the engine wouldn't turn. We had taken a wave, apparently up the exhaust pipe and water locked the engine. $7000 later, it was all fixed! The first thing I did was go out and buy flappers for the exhaust.
7k in 2001 is probably 14k these days I would venture to guess.
@@SearchingforCShels For sure!
If owning a yacht was fun everyone would do it. LOL. Been there before, I had to rebuild twin 12 cylinder at one time. By the end I was thinking I should have just bought another boat. Glad your back up and running. Now take a month to relax and get your money's worth.
I'd say that was a good price! I just paid $13k for a new heat exchanger on the port side, (new exchanger and expansion tank alone was $3900) and flushing and servicing of both engines, plus a lot of other misc. items for about 4 days work and two pages of parts. But, that was in Key West. I have the same motors as you. Do you remember the size requirements to get it out of your side door? I don't have a side door so it would have to go out the back doors, side window or cut a hole (please no...). BTW, is your new motor using any oil? Mine run great, but they do use oil.
The rebuilt one doesn't use oil. I think the pistons and rings are different than what were original to the engine. 3208s are known to burn a little oil. Both of my engines before the rebuild burned about a quart every 8-12 hours of running. Especially low RPM running. The unrebuilt one still does this.
Can't remember the width requirement for the door, but I couldn't believe they fit it through. The engine was completely stripped down. If I was near the boat I'd measure the door for you.
It is expensive, and those in the comment section saying they could get this done for so much less are living in another time and another place.
Cheers friend!
@@SearchingforCShels you’re right about the costs. I’d be pleased to do what you did, but I don’t have side doors. My 48 Jefferson looks a lot like your boat with the cockpit but we have no side door. We’d with have to remove the windows or cut a hole in the hull. So my question is, do I just keep chugging along (we put over 11,000 NM’s in the last 4 years) and upgrading (I added bow thrusters, new electronics, lots of maintenance and new engine parts) or buy another boat with engines that can be rebuilt? This boat is paid for. A newer would not be. Build the dreamboat or buy the dreamboat? Love your channel and hope to see you all in the Bahamas this year. We only had a month there this year.
Keep chugging along I say. The cheapest boat is the one you have. That is if budget is of concern to you. That is unless you feel that a rebuild is closing in on you. How many hours on your CATs?
I'd say it is easier to remove the windows if you need to rebuild. The salon windows in the Tolly I have were sized to remove the engine.
@@SearchingforCShels 3300 hours. Yea, at this stage in life, 63, it’s a tough one. I’d have to get a loan, but that’s very manageable. The one thing missing on this boat that can’t be added is stabilizers but we can also wait for smoother days! If I am sure that I can have these rebuilt it wouldn’t be throwing money out the window to continue improving this one. I would think my windows would be much wider than your door. But the height? We spend a lot of time at our lake home teaching our kids and grandkids boating skills on the pontoon and wave runners, then our main house is in Nashville and now we find that as we are newly empty nesters, (4 daughters), our favorite place is on the big boat cruising. We are a third of the way finished with the Loop, but are heading back to do Key West and the Bahamas again before heading north. It’s just too beautiful.
I was just thinking about you 2 earlier today . I’m glad you’re doing well ? Take care and cruise well !
Thank you.
No means to be disrespectful, most comments are spot on 66k seems exceptionally out of wack. I have two 3208s as well. Now difference is mine will lift straight up and out of the boat not requiring any tear down in the boat. But a new motor is less the. 20k. I get the yard went to the extra steps of replacing things while it was apart. I’ll not fault them for those things. But it could have been done for less.
I said it in the video that It may have been done for less, but not much. The cost of the tear down, removal , reman, reinstall, was in the upper 40s. The rest of the money was parts and service mostly of the other engine. Do you know how much a new aftercooler costs? And I got two of them. If you are going to get a yard to do this work, this is what you are going to pay this day and age.
Wow! Ouch! Holly cow! I love outboards. Love the honesty of your videos. Not many cruisers of 35' or more feet with outboards. Then gas is also less MPG.
Thanks for watching Lorne! Yes, I guess if the outboard goes you just throw it away and hand a new one back there. lol
To properly rebuild the engine you need to have the engine tanked and check for cracks. To skip this you would be wasting your money. Prevention is always the best way protect your investment. Most people work on out of side out of mind. That can be a costly mistake. Glad you were able to have a great place look over the boat and handle the details for you. Including sea trail that is important for you and them. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Thanks. This is our yard we've been going to for years and have a trusted relationship with them. Trust, professionalism, and quality of work is really hard to come by in the marine industry. Priceless really. We are glad to have them.
BS Machine shop is known as one of the best on the eastern seaboard.
Besides head gaskets, I would have had the after coolers pressure checked.
Aftercoolers were replaced.
Pretty spendy. Cheers you two! B&T
What else are we going to spend our money on? lol Cheers to you guys!
Wow guys
Had the same with my 3208s
And all so found there was a field change on intake valves
Please ck that
Can't wait to meet up
Thanks, yes new intake valves.
Thank you for sharing this !!!.
Thanks for listening
Glad your back the cost is a tough nut to turn
Thanks.
Thanks for the info guys
Our pleasure Ron!
Dang , I'm an owner operator, I never get out of the shop without forking out over 10 grand , plus the lost revenue witch is about 6 to 10 grand a week .
I get an oil sample checked every quarter
I get my overhead ran yearly
I sell my trucks before the inflame is due .
An oil sample at your last service may have let you know before the failure
Good advice.
Thanks for the update.... I was wondering what happened. I'm glad you're made of money... because I have enjoyed your video's. ;-)
Thanks. We wish we were made of money...
OMG!!! The old saying "A boat is a hole in the water you throw money into" comes to mind. You sure have put some miles on that boat. Let's hope they did the work like pros, and they last forever.
Hey there we just started listening to your channel
We are in contact with a tollycraft 45.
And coincidentally which it went to New Bern north Carolina.
I remember seeing this video last week and remembered what had happened with your engines!!
Are engine hours are at 3400.
We're waiting for survey. We were able to talk to the mechanic surveyor and he said that we definitely need a thousand hour and the coolers need to be addressed.
Your video is a godsend because it really made us diligent about looking at what is really important and that is those engines other than that the boat needs just a little cosmetic clean up and she'll be ready to go on the loop
Glad it helped you out. Have you finalized on the Tolly yet? If so, congratulations!
Learned a lot from your painful transparency. Especially the CDN$ conversion pain. Been here in the US for 23 years and its not pretty even now. I have a property near Stuart and appreciate your referral to Forest River. Have referred you folks to others so lets hope you get the increased subscribers. Safe adventures!
This is our yard we've been going to for years and have a trusted relationship with them. Trust, professionalism, and quality of work is really hard to come by in the marine industry. Priceless really. We are glad to have them.
Good to know. We’re not in the boat market - yet. Once we are full time in FL we will be buying a used boat. Have watched thousands of hours of boating videos. Shel’s description many moons ago off why he bought a Tollycraft was insightful. Seaworthiness etc. I try to absorb tid bits from all the various videographers. Even though we won’t be looking for anything over 40ft. We keep looking and waiting for that day. God bless and clear weather!
Good luck with the boat search. Maybe we will see you on the water. Cheers!
Wow......that was definitely a big ticket item 😳
Is there any possibility that because you have your you tube business you can write off the expenses of the rebuild? The boat is part of that business expense I would imagine ?
My accountant says if I want to get audited add the boat maintenance to my Corp business expenses. lol
doubtful the YT 'business' earns much.
@@Baba3756-n2o copy . Just was thinking if it did make money and was a US company with a UBI
We have a mainship 430.. We have found that BOAT stands for Bend Over and Take it
LOL
I wish I have known you were going to stick with the 3208s I would’ve tried to talk to you about a re-power for another $30,000 you could’ve had a pair of C series Cummins installed with liners that would be faster and more fuel efficient.
Well, anyway, from here on out service, your inner coolers, every two years to avoid those type of problems again regardless of hours
Thanks, but we didn't have another 30k USD to spare. Yes, after coolers on the list for 2 year inspections and pressure tests.
Can't imagine what your fuel costs must be. Cruising sailboats also have to run their engines on a regular basis. It's not the free ride most people envision when they believe they are leaving their land-locked troubles behind when they buy a boat.
True, there are no free rides. Actually fuel costs are not what you might think. Probably the least of all our cruising expenses. 3.5 GPH at 8 knots, which is what we cruise at mainly.
Wow! 66K!.. I don’t believe there is anything you could have done to prevent this though, possibly a head gasket change but that wouldn’t stop a coolant water leak getting into the engine exhaust system via a manifold issue (for example).. please tell me you put in the 3ring pistons instead of the old 2 ring type the cat 3208 used to have. A blown head gasket almost always damages on the of the 2-ring pistons, then the engines smoke.
I sent you an email a while back when you announced this issue.. I am going through the same scenario but I am retired with time to do it myself. I have just completed both engines including fitting liners etc.. I’ll send you an updated email with all my costs… I wonder how much the labour charges of that 66K were?
Yes, replaced with 3 ring pistons. The bare rebuild (disassembly, removal, machined/internal parts replacement, and reinstall/reassembly) was probably in the high 40k range. Then add in the 2 aftercoolers, a fuel pump, rehose the other engine, and remove and ultrasonically clean the cooling system of the other engine.
I just saw this, and made a mental note of your comments of possibly saving money by preventative maintenance and by having the rebuild done in the boat.
I'll share that I bought a turbodiesel pickup in 2010 for the purpose of towing my yet-to-buy pocket cruiser boat (selling everything to buy Mainship 390 next year). It is a 2000 and had a lot of hours on the engine, so I learned what could kill the engine and had all of that serviced. One item was the oil cooler, which if it failed - would dump coolant into the oil. I also inspected the aftercooler - but a truck aftercooler does not have sea water to threaten it.
Oil cooler was replaced as a preventative measure, as well as all hoses (including power steering/brake pressure hoses). It was a little expensive - but not a LOT expensive. I compression tested my engine to know all was solid. I think a compression test on your engine would have exposed the issue you had - very inexpensive and quick test.
On the topic of rebuilding in the boat - you've been in the engine room. You know that working in there takes 3 to 5 times longer to work on anything than if it's out in the open. That's billable hours - best to pull the engine and have full access. Besides, the milling machine won't fit in the boat.
Thanks for your perspective. Greatly appreciated. A lot of diesel engines are sleeved. Therefore no milling has to happen, you just replace the sleeves in the engine. Also we did a compression test on the after coolers (even the one that was leaking) they withstood the test pressure, but somehow over the long storage period it leaked. Cheers!
OK. This is frightening. I have had to remove and rebuild a Cummins engines on a previous boat (Tiara). My current boat has 2x 3412e Caterpillar 27 liter engines. Just getting one out would likely cost more than your rebuild. Here's the thing though - they are NOT raw water cooled (my Cummins were of course and suffered a similar fate to your caterpillar). Apparently Caterpillar only made them coolant-cooled for a short period (all the heat exchanges are coolant fed). This does seem like a better design. Raw water to air intercoolers are scary. Check your zincs people.
Sorry you went through that. Good advice.
do you send in your oil to CAT for evaluation? I do it every 75 - 100 hours. Not sure it would have helped, but it might provide good tell tale signes.... I have Cat 3126s in mine. Keep Cruising!!!
So did you do the head bolts and gasket on the other side? I heard your list, but I did not hear that. Maybe missed it.
Done 3 years ago. Should have done this engine at that time. Might have saved us this aggravation.
that's yachting or boating there is always something !!! if one want's to spend or throw money away buy something that floats or flies and enjoy.
So, are you putting new head gaskets on the port engine, or just new hoses and Hx's?
Gaskets were replaced on that engine a couple years ago. All good.
Do you mind me asking what kind of work you do and how many hours do you put in? (all online I assume?) Thanks and hoping for no toast!
I spun a bearing , pushed a connective rod out of the side of the block. no rebuild possible. I bought a fresh rebuild from BOMAC in Florida 7500 for total motor, and 11k for de and reinstall. the difference is I have lehman's
That is a good deal. Yes Lehmans are cheaper that way. Love those engines.
I’m going to disagree with most here. Considering all the work you had done , the parts required and man hours the bill seems reasonable. I am neither rich or a boat yard owner by the way. Diesels their parts and accessory parts are expensive and unfortunately CAT parts for that engine are even higher. I bet there were more than 30k in parts alone. The tools, skills and experience required to rebuild a cat diesel (or most any diesel) are in another league compared to their gas counterparts. What you guys got was not only a rebuild but a catch up on maintenance that was due or overdue and peace of mind that you are as ready as possible to go back to sea. Oh and a steep reminder that recommended maintenance isn’t a suggestion with diesels. 90k is a lot of money for almost anything so I’m not minimizing the outlay. To get the most from your boating life I suggest that you put it behind you and enjoy your boat to the fullest. Good to see a video from you guys and Sheldon looking so good.
Thank you. This is a very reasonable assessment.
As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, included in that invoice, and above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehosing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill as well.
Just had two gas engines go bad in our 300ec. Ecm ran fuel pumps and filled crankcase with gas. 28k to replace both 300hp engines. And I won't get 10,000 hours like you will!
My boat mechanic pointed out the "two, three and ten thousand" acronyms a couple years ago.
Ha.
Ha.
But, as we boat owners know, it's worth every penny.
You can't take it with you. Life is about the experience.
They didn't even get a third of 10k hours. So... 🤷
I rebuild engines and Italian Super Yacht Tenders in the range of 250k for a 23 foot boat. Normally a complete engine rebuild is about 2/3 parts to labor ratio.
BTW 23 foot Castoldi jet tender has a 370 hp Yanmar.... Craziness
Did I just read you right? 250k for a rebuild of a Yanmar?
@@SearchingforCShelsNO. 250k for a 23 foot Italian jet Tender
ah, got it. Thanks.
Been buzzing around your content - great stuff - Im due to view a Jefferson 46 this weekend in Portugal that has cat 3208's - the owner for last 10 years tells me that one is blowing some smoke. He's been told it's a 1500 Euro/ Dollar job. Listening to this Im getting alarmed - I for sure dont have 66k in the cruising kitty. Do you think a proper engine survey by an engine expert (rather than a generalist boat surveyor) would have been able to get ahead of this?
Is it blowing smoke all the time? What color is it? How many hours on the engines? Which version of the 3208 is it? It could be a 1500 dollar job, but I wouldn't take the boat without them fixing it. If it is 1500 why isn't it fixed before selling and showing the boat? 1500 is peanuts in maintaining a 46 foot yacht. It could be just a bad injector, which wouldn't be too expensive. How does he really know it is a 1500 dollar job? Has anyone had the engine apart? That is the only way to know. And if it was apart, way wasn't it fixed at that time? Some red flags here and lots of questions.
@@SearchingforCShels That's really helpful thanks - I was kind of sleep walking into it until I saw your story. I'd probably been thinking vaguely along the lines of some of the more negative responses to your video e.g. just buy a new one or repower etc but your calm responses to those suggestions have firmly closed that door). The current owner is getting frail in his 80's, and it's an urgent sale, he had been doing a lot of his own work. I will dig into the points you raise before travelling to view it and also do some more research on bulletin boards etc.. Your $1500 = peanuts is another a wake-up call - do you have a rough figure for yearly essential upkeep (or a video on that?) - excluding e.g. mooring, fuel, cosmetics? Cheers, Paul
Yes we have a playlist with the costs of this lifestyle. You should budget for minimum 10% of the value of the boat for planned maintenance. Have more put aside for surprises. Remember though most of that content is before Covid, and as you know everything has gone up since then.
th-cam.com/play/PLbuTTI_DH-F0Dm9n7p2-v_zHNGDt7E2xW.html
We also have an in-depth article here, www.searchingforcshels.com/sfcs/2019/9/29/the-cost-to-live-aboard-and-cruise
That price is ridiculous, I can only assume many replacement parts were in gold.
Ouch. That hurt I"M sure. If I had a choice I had rather have sleeved cylinders I don't think I knew the 3208 weren't sleeved. I think that same job would be cheaper here. Maybe not a lot I know everything has gone up a lot since the pandemic. You should be good to go engine wise I would think for a long time now. Good luck to you this year!
Yes, hoping all is good for a while. 👍
I hope you get your investment back in your boat. A definition of a boat, a hole in the water you pour money into. Cheers
We don't expect to get our investment back. That doesn't usually happen in boating.
You should list every place you took this to - and let everyone know where not to go !
Good thing you have lots of money...
If only...
when is the next episodes I thought they were weekly😢
How about outboards for that price???
To replace a head gasket, the engine does NOT has to be removed. Sorry for your luck, I hope you were questioned the bill.... perhaps seeking some legal advise ?
You may need to rewatch the video. We didn't remove the engine to replace a head gasket.
Ouch….hurts for sure. But……a hazard of the lifestyle. Most people don’t understand is that we are actually broke because we boat. Can’t dwell on it……LET’S GO BOATING!
Yes, Let's go boating.
OUCH!!
Yup.
Welcone to the 10k club. ...but just think..of cost of 3000 hours traveling to bahamas...PRICELESS!
Thanks lol. The memories made are priceless for sure.
I have just completed more external work on my 3208’s, oil cooler, raw water pump - manifolds and new risers (stainless) my engine hours are at 6,000 these are NA engines do you feel the same issue you faced could be in my future?
It's great you are keeping ahead of the maintenance. I have not known that the 3208N engine having much of an issue with head gaskets. You don't have an aftercooler hanging over the heads either like I do. However, like I said in the video, If there is no history of head gasket replacement for your engine I'd think about doing that. I'm sure the head gasket is suppose to be replaced long before 6000 hours.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
What would a replacement engine cost?
If you mean a new engine, there are no new 3208 engines. Getting a new engine means replacing both engines. $$$$
Feel for you guys to begin the cat 3208 turbo charge engine where push to there limits at 300 plus horse power the original design where natural aspirated no turbo those usually last a bit longer however from the beginning it was a bad design no sleeves and to ad insult to injury one compression ring no other diesel or gasoline engine has this future that's why they call them throw away engines for the money you spend i would have re power with Cummings c series twin disk 507 with the largest reduction to be able to fit the biggest diameter propeller maybe 2 to 1 reduction or more anyway happy boating hope these 3208 last a life time
We appreciate your comment. I don't think there was any way to get my engine room gutted, 2 new Cummins and new transmissions installed, rewire for anything near what we paid. Maybe 10-20 years ago, not now, not in the future.
Wow that’s a lot… we pay that for finning to do a total re and re on a C9.
As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehosing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill.
seeing how a long block can be bought for 12 thousand and when you add the ton of other work involved in your engine repair and repairs to the other engine 66K is actually not that bad taken into account now the plus side if the engine was rebuilt properly it actually should be better than a brand new factory engine providing they used superior parts
Another very reasonable comment. Thank you.
This is our yard we've been going to for years and have a trusted relationship with them. Trust, professionalism, and quality of work is really hard to come by in the marine industry. Priceless really. We are glad to have them.
As mentioned in the video and in other comments here, included in that invoice, and above and beyond the rebuild was a fuel pump, 2 aftercoolers, and rehosing and removing and ultra sonically cleaning the cooling system of the other engine. That is a good chunk of the bill.
Did you look into new engines? Sounds like you spent more rebuilding than buying a new one. You also could have looked at different manufacturers and fewer cylinders that produce the same hp? Fewer cylinders and less weight equal better performance. Just curious, like you said hindsight is 20/20
A new engine would require two new engines. I can't buy a new 3208. There is no way the removal of these two engines, and installation of 2 new ones, with wiring and controls and everything else I can't think of, would be as cheap as one engine rebuild.
We’ve been spelling it BOATT for a while now!!!
That would be a big decision but you're right if you started at the head gaskets for both engines you would have all that covered on a good point but,,, and dropping it off it would have been only 20,000,,,,, it sounds like you learn what you need to learn
O.M.G. I hate to say it but I do believe that they saw you coming. I feel your pain. I don't know the details however that price....I've been in boats most all my 70+ years and I've never even heard of the fleshing that you poor folks got.
SOMETHING just don't smell right.