I've seen many channels just say that the stock rods are no good for a tuned engine, but never why. Just hinting that they're weak, and bend with the increase in power - thank you for actually explaining why. Love the format, clear explanations with spot on camera work and audio.
Good video, but the purpose of piston cooling jets are specifically for one reason, that is to cool the bottom of the piston and by extension keep the entire piston assembly cooler to prevent over expansion. If there are dual jets, then one jet may offer a conical spray pattern to send oil to the cylinder walls and the other may be directed at the ‘wrist pin’ or small end bearing. But in general, if the jets stop working, the underside of the piston is normally discolored due to heat and you may see piston to liner/cylinder bore contact. Ensure that the cooling jets are aligned correctly when reassembling the engine (we normally use a tool or a laser alignment procedure.
Great video mate , I’m sure John thorn from thorney motorsport has discussed the vulnerability of the rods on those engines with regards to running big power , there are allot of Americans that tune the 720 s to 900 1000 hp which he dosnt recommend , but he’s always happy to do a rebuild if people don’t want to listen lol
Seen lot's of reports and TH-cam videos of McLaren engine failures, not what one would expect from such an expensive vehicle. You guy's certainly confirmed it's far from a rarity.
@@richyclubsport5155it’s rare for a unmodified McLaren engine to fail, the engineering and design of those engines is incredible. Don’t let a few TH-cam videos convince you otherwise given how many of these engines exist out there.
Fantastic video. As someone who has fitted forced induction and tuned humble engines such as the MX-5 BP to 300bhp, this is a fascinating insight into modern engines and design choices. I only wish I was still in that industry :o(
Watched a few bent rod incidents with these engines. The replacement rods were beefed up to prevent bending. Makes perfect sense that it was not a compression (force) failure but a bending moment issue. Still a poor design to rely on oil pressure rather than interference or mutual float to prevent the bending moment. Beefing up con rods is fixing the system not the root cause. Thanks for sharing this.
I really enjoyed your explanation on why the connecting rods bend. Most people just say "there is too much boost pressure" and the rods can't handle it..
Very informative - loved the style and the tuition. I certainly learnt a lot 👍🏻👍🏻 Thankfully my little AMG GLA45 is untouched by tuners - still in the settings dear Peter Schindler built it with. No McLaren for me thank you 🤓🤓
Great video. Great explanation regarding the boost at lower rpm's vs not at least modifying the oil pump to compensate for that but, I was wondering why you didn't disassemble the pump in the video to maybe see what failed in the first place other than the shaft itself. Maybe a pump that will maintain pressure and volume at lower rpm's. Bob
Porsche 996 Turbo Mezger engines have crank guided piston rods. These are good up to 600HP, then you start playing Russian roulette. A rod will usually bend, making the S shape and the small end will hit the crank counter balance. This will first make a loud tap tap noice that quickly becomes less audible since the material is worn away but an audible tip tip sound will consist. This is a sign to get the engine rebuilt and upgrade to stronger rods. I took a customers engine apart. All six rods were bent but only one scraped on the counter balance. He was smart enough to not make another pull after initial pull that caused this bend and he luckily saved himself US$10,000 by not having to source a new case and possible cylinder. Another customer blew one rod through the case and cylinder bank one week before his engine was due to come to us for an upgrade to 1,000HP on E85. He had to add the $10,000 to his already not small bill ha ha.
This engine and other recent Mclaren twin turbo V8s are blueprinted from the Nissan VRH35Z Twin-Turbocharged 32-valve V8 ie: early 1990s Maybe Mclaren did their own modifications to this design and made it worse in some ways
This engine shares many similarities to the lt6 z06 engine, hats off to gm for building a super car domestic engine. I'd love to take my lt6 apart just to inspect and see how this engine is out together
What a garbage design , absoulute disgrace. Well presented analysis, man knows his onions. From a veteran high performance engine builder, drag racer.🤝
As you say if the oil pressure is low the chance of a rod bending is greater, so the oilpump failing could have caused the 2 rods to bend. The oil shaft snapping is a common issue, do not understand that Mclaren does not do a recall on this. (well it is ofcourse expensive...)
Someone needs to show this to McLaren and have this explained. This is crazy. I know assembly errors happen, but to a handbuilt engine... someone was smoking something that day.
7:39 Could it not be, that the missing oiling of the conrod meant the piston did not move adequately side to side by itself and eventually just "got stuck" and became damaged as result?
How many miles... is it not under warranty...? The failure of that pump shaft... surely should immediately be taken care of by McLaren as it is a material failure and that component was not suitable for the job it was built for...! EDIT: Was it tuned and thus no warranty...? (Even though, that failure of the oil pump shaft should not be down to a tune...?) I like the video approach... and cool calm well explained approach... you got a new sub... look forward to the dyno runs.
Good thing they have all that CAD/CAM technology to design oil pumps. The more they implement technology in manufacturing the worse everything the make becomes, cars, planes, appliances.
@@bramcoteelectrical1088 The 2 failures are not correlate. Probably without the oil pump failure the engine could still work. Just with less compression on those 2 cylinders
Seeing the broken oil pump shaft reminded me of all the videos of idiots cold starting and revving the crap out of engines. Best to keep revs down until the oil warms up a bit.
I love McLaren one of m’y favorite super car brand but honestly with all the probeme their car got I still don’t know how they sell those cars this one is tuned so the chance of failure increases but even stock they have lot of problems
The rods bent from too much cylinder pressure due to increased boost from the tune - not because of the axial side clearance on the rods. 😂. If oil pressure was an issue on the bottom end, the bearing would have failed, so the theory of the rod being crooked from low oil pressure is unique to say the least
@@timbo19751975 re low oil pressure when boost kicks in , couldn't they not get round this by building an oil pump with a fixed gear ratio so the pump works faster at lower rpm
@@chistianmeyer2728 no. Rods will bend irrelevant of oil pressure. We've seen this in tuned turbo charged Volvo blocks since the beginning of time - the mcl v8 is originally based on the Yamaha / volvo v8.
It appears that the design of the oil pump is substandard. Why not incorporate an oil pump that provides plenty of pressure at relatively low engine speeds, and build in an excess pressure relief mechanism so the pressure doesn't run too high ?
I've seen many channels just say that the stock rods are no good for a tuned engine, but never why. Just hinting that they're weak, and bend with the increase in power - thank you for actually explaining why. Love the format, clear explanations with spot on camera work and audio.
Brilliant video. Not too long, plenty of detail where it mattered. You clearly know what you're talking about as well. Thank you.
Thanks for the support - Part 2 will be coming out soon 😎
@@MotorsportPerformance so how much will the repair cost vs the new McLaren engine?
@ check the link in the description where you’ll find our engine rebuild prices and packages 😎
@@MotorsportPerformance i dont want to have an engine rebuilt, I want to know if the owner saves anything on THIS motor vs having taken it to mclaren
@ McLaren were quoting around £40k plus install
Our services were £25k plus
Wow that’s the best tear down and I explanation I’ve seen in a long time! Very informative, and well edited great work! Appreciate your expertise
Good video, but the purpose of piston cooling jets are specifically for one reason, that is to cool the bottom of the piston and by extension keep the entire piston assembly cooler to prevent over expansion. If there are dual jets, then one jet may offer a conical spray pattern to send oil to the cylinder walls and the other may be directed at the ‘wrist pin’ or small end bearing. But in general, if the jets stop working, the underside of the piston is normally discolored due to heat and you may see piston to liner/cylinder bore contact. Ensure that the cooling jets are aligned correctly when reassembling the engine (we normally use a tool or a laser alignment procedure.
I thought those jets were to prevent detonation.
Awesome explanation about low RPM/high boost without building full oil pressure at those engine speeds.
You're welcome and thank you for the support 😎
Great video mate , I’m sure John thorn from thorney motorsport has discussed the vulnerability of the rods on those engines with regards to running big power , there are allot of Americans that tune the 720 s to 900 1000 hp which he dosnt recommend , but he’s always happy to do a rebuild if people don’t want to listen lol
pretty sure Thorne has never rebuilt an 720s engine 😂
Thank you for the support 😎
Very well done! Your knowledge and ability is impressive, young man! From a veteran Japanese shop owner/ tech of 36 yrs...
Fantastic in-depth analysis blog and video 😊🇬🇧
Stumbled into the page and have to say what a great informative vid.
Thank you!
Followed just from the video. Not even 15K and this is better than many accounts with millions of followers
Thank you for the support!
Love the flow/pace and detail provided in this channel, excellent!!!
Thank you for the support! Part 2 coming real soon 😎
Seen lot's of reports and TH-cam videos of McLaren engine failures, not what one would expect from such an expensive vehicle. You guy's certainly confirmed it's far from a rarity.
Mclaren engine failures are rare unless tuned. I have and still do own many Mclarens
@@kertzavar2266even when tuned depends on the tune as they mentioned in the video
@@kertzavar2266 don't know if modded or not, but seen over 20 different videos with blown engines.
I would sue. This is ridiculous.
@@richyclubsport5155it’s rare for a unmodified McLaren engine to fail, the engineering and design of those engines is incredible. Don’t let a few TH-cam videos convince you otherwise given how many of these engines exist out there.
Fantastic video, incredible explanation of the issues this engine suffered, well done!
Thanks for supporting the channel
thanks for giving us a look at this engine while you repaired it!
Fantastic video. As someone who has fitted forced induction and tuned humble engines such as the MX-5 BP to 300bhp, this is a fascinating insight into modern engines and design choices.
I only wish I was still in that industry :o(
No beating around the bush, tell it as it really is. First class explaination.
Perfect blend of entertainment & education. Subbed.
Great diagnostics with simple straightforward explanation on the failure of this complex expensive engine! Well done!😄
I knew nothing about engines until today....brilliant and fascinating video mate....thank you!!
Watched a few bent rod incidents with these engines. The replacement rods were beefed up to prevent bending. Makes perfect sense that it was not a compression (force) failure but a bending moment issue. Still a poor design to rely on oil pressure rather than interference or mutual float to prevent the bending moment. Beefing up con rods is fixing the system not the root cause. Thanks for sharing this.
Outstanding video, superb insight and knowledge, these guys definitely know what there're doing...that"s why I took my Bullitt Mustang to them.
Excellent explanation.
Thank you!
Brilliant. Using a dead engine to illustrate some of the unusual engineering - and unusual failures - of this F1 derived design. Thank you!
WOW such a competent and expert explanation .
So how did the oil pump drive shaft shear? What causes that, is it too much power from the map?
I really enjoyed your explanation on why the connecting rods bend. Most people just say "there is too much boost pressure" and the rods can't handle it..
Very informative - loved the style and the tuition. I certainly learnt a lot 👍🏻👍🏻
Thankfully my little AMG GLA45 is untouched by tuners - still in the settings dear Peter Schindler built it with. No McLaren for me thank you 🤓🤓
Fantastic professionalism, and skillsets!
Great vid, learned a lot, kept my attention throughout, thanks!
Great work and you know what your doing, many do not. respect
Great video. Great explanation regarding the boost at lower rpm's vs not at least modifying the oil pump to compensate for that but, I was wondering why you didn't disassemble the pump in the video to maybe see what failed in the first place other than the shaft itself. Maybe a pump that will maintain pressure and volume at lower rpm's. Bob
$40k for a McLaren 720 engine doesn't surprise me in the slightest. In fact I would guess higher than that. Great video!
40k POUNDS not dollars.
Yeah converted to USD it's 50k USD. Again that is without the labour cost of install which will also be several thousand I imagine
Nice content here guys, you deserve more subs. On a side note this is why I de-tuned my car, too much pressure on the rods.
Thanks for the support! 😎
3:51probably the pump should be changed every 1000km, like in f1
Wow, that would be a huge engineering failure IMO
Thoroughly enjoyed this
Subscribed
Admire your skills and everything explained perfectly. Respect
We appreciate that! 😎
Excellent content
Thank you!
subbed...no fluff and to the point.
Nice vid. Enjoyed it 👍
Thank you!
Very cool analysis! Cant wait for the Corvette ZORA!
Really enjoyed this video 😎
Glad to hear, part 2 coming real soon! 😎
I love this channel your knowledge is ridiculous how did you learn all this
Porsche 996 Turbo Mezger engines have crank guided piston rods. These are good up to 600HP, then you start playing Russian roulette. A rod will usually bend, making the S shape and the small end will hit the crank counter balance. This will first make a loud tap tap noice that quickly becomes less audible since the material is worn away but an audible tip tip sound will consist. This is a sign to get the engine rebuilt and upgrade to stronger rods. I took a customers engine apart. All six rods were bent but only one scraped on the counter balance. He was smart enough to not make another pull after initial pull that caused this bend and he luckily saved himself US$10,000 by not having to source a new case and possible cylinder.
Another customer blew one rod through the case and cylinder bank one week before his engine was due to come to us for an upgrade to 1,000HP on E85. He had to add the $10,000 to his already not small bill ha ha.
I’ll keep an eye on my two Maclarens, cheers!
well explained pal.understood all of it.
Awesome video mate 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks very much! Part 2 coming soon 😎
Thank for explaining why they bend rods at high boost low rpm 😊😊
You're welcome 😎
I'm very sure more power is not something I'd need in a 720S.
The wealthy are FULL of ego and things that make them wealthy. Ala not logical or ethical beliefs
This engine and other recent Mclaren twin turbo V8s are blueprinted from the Nissan VRH35Z Twin-Turbocharged 32-valve V8 ie: early 1990s
Maybe Mclaren did their own modifications to this design and made it worse in some ways
You are wrong. You are corrected.
@Mk1Male explain correctly with your brain switched on
This engine shares many similarities to the lt6 z06 engine, hats off to gm for building a super car domestic engine. I'd love to take my lt6 apart just to inspect and see how this engine is out together
Cool Vid, You certainly know about engines
Extremely well explained.
What a garbage design , absoulute disgrace.
Well presented analysis, man knows his onions.
From a veteran high performance engine builder, drag racer.🤝
Wow! Great video!!
As you say if the oil pressure is low the chance of a rod bending is greater, so the oilpump failing could have caused the 2 rods to bend. The oil shaft snapping is a common issue, do not understand that Mclaren does not do a recall on this. (well it is ofcourse expensive...)
Someone needs to show this to McLaren and have this explained. This is crazy. I know assembly errors happen, but to a handbuilt engine... someone was smoking something that day.
Classss video 👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼 very informative
A very interesting and well-informed video.
£40K for a new McLaren 720S engine to me is not that bad. I would go for that instead of rebuilding it.
Straight forward presentation - easy to follow. Subscribed. Suggestion - lose the click bait title.
7:39
Could it not be, that the missing oiling of the conrod meant the piston did not move adequately side to side by itself and eventually just "got stuck" and became damaged as result?
You guys should just put a 2j or twin turbo LS in it. At least then it would be reliable.
Beautiful, simple explanation of bad tuning and too little oil pressure
Great video.
I love car companies owned by Bahrain.
I could listen to dude talk all day!
How many miles... is it not under warranty...?
The failure of that pump shaft... surely should immediately be taken care of by McLaren as it is a material failure and that component was not suitable for the job it was built for...!
EDIT: Was it tuned and thus no warranty...? (Even though, that failure of the oil pump shaft should not be down to a tune...?)
I like the video approach... and cool calm well explained approach... you got a new sub... look forward to the dyno runs.
Good thing they have all that CAD/CAM technology to design oil pumps. The more they implement technology in manufacturing the worse everything the make becomes, cars, planes, appliances.
Great car….junk motors…. My Nissan GTR has run perfectly for 50,000 miles with 800 whp…
Always wanted a 650 or 720 but.. NEVER.. CRAPPY MOTORS….
Your GTR? Lol
Mc Laren = expensive junk and glue = i just rather a Subaru Turbo = real and down to earth proven rally car !
Dealership would have recommended new engine straight up because they would not know how to strip down and diagnose...let alone rebuild.
Great video, why did the oil pump main shaft break if you put the same back in what's stopping that one to break cheers.
eeky ouchy . Maybe harmonics or inadequate component? Liability of an engine i wouldnt go near one .
Maybe the oil pump snapped as the rods bent and the force of that assembly stopping snapped the oil pump assembly
@@bramcoteelectrical1088 The 2 failures are not correlate. Probably without the oil pump failure the engine could still work. Just with less compression on those 2 cylinders
@@fedomandez could have done.... intreasting to see why and get this tear down thou 😔
Great teacher 🙏🙏🙏👏👏👏
Dang how all this damage come about in a car that cost $$$$$$.00
Boost
Curious what oil pump fixes this problem.
Also with all that expensive glitter everywhere can the turbos be saved?
Just looking at that guy I’ll believe anything he says
He’s clean and proper
I’d believe Covid if he told me
Talented individual all i need now is McLaren super car and i know where im going for maintenance
That's what we like to hear! 😎
I was waiting to hear the car was tuned…
Damn!!! Just Subbed!!
Thank you! 😎
What a brilliant young man 🤓
😎
Seeing the broken oil pump shaft reminded me of all the videos of idiots cold starting and revving the crap out of engines. Best to keep revs down until the oil warms up a bit.
Rocker arm faults sounds like an SR20😂 except a hundred times more expensive 🤷
i need the tracklist the music was hot fire
Haha, we appreciate that you noticed this - Part 2 coming real soon! 😎
Great video and very informative. What was engine mileage?
Forbidden glitter in the oil!
write-off brand, there's simply no way to offset the annoyance factor of "will it work today"
My dad always tol me this about car a small thing can do a lot of damages.
Skills!👌
Thank you!
I love McLaren one of m’y favorite super car brand but honestly with all the probeme their car got I still don’t know how they sell those cars this one is tuned so the chance of failure increases but even stock they have lot of problems
Was this tuned?
@@dantem306 yes, by another company
Masively powerful tune.... well there's McLaren off the hook.
Is that gearbox a Tremec? Looks like one.....
Some of these newer high performance engines run very high oil pressure, my 2021 gt500 has 125 psi hot oil pressure at 7500rpm!
The rods bent from too much cylinder pressure due to increased boost from the tune - not because of the axial side clearance on the rods. 😂. If oil pressure was an issue on the bottom end, the bearing would have failed, so the theory of the rod being crooked from low oil pressure is unique to say the least
Too much torque too low down in the rev range, - as you say very high cylinder pressure.
@@timbo19751975 re low oil pressure when boost kicks in , couldn't they not get round this by building an oil pump with a fixed gear ratio so the pump works faster at lower rpm
@@chistianmeyer2728 no. Rods will bend irrelevant of oil pressure. We've seen this in tuned turbo charged Volvo blocks since the beginning of time - the mcl v8 is originally based on the Yamaha / volvo v8.
It appears that the design of the oil pump is substandard.
Why not incorporate an oil pump that provides plenty of pressure at relatively low engine speeds, and build in an excess pressure relief mechanism so the pressure doesn't run too high ?
Shocker I woulda figured a million horsepower magnesium aluminum titanium alloy motor would be more reliable
😂🎉
BMW engine ... double 3 cylinder... from i8
I kind of thought 40K wasn't a bad deal, except it should have been covered by Mc.
Are mclarens reliable? I see a lot of them being worked on
It's like with most things, if you maintain and look after them, it shouldn't be a problem :)
Why dont u just install a NIssan GR R engine...3.8 V6 -