@LegionGrey the bomb has a huge radius, so it can take at least half of the people in that room. It can be thrown and won't break like a wooden barrel. But may explode if throwing from a tall ledge. Cheers
@@ricardocalderon9823 if you fill a backpack with explosives you can throw from a minimal height and the bag will burst but the contents will remain intact. contents SHOULD include barrels (unless it was hot fixed). this is a great tactic for massive booms in one spot/area
No. Put all in bag. Advanced invisibility on stealth wizard. Put 2 timed snowballs into the bag. Drop it off. Go anywhere. First one breaks bag with perfect item stacking in single point. Second sets off runepowder barrels. You can take out anyone like this even if you travel to different region like even camp. 0 combat.
I too was a Viconia fan though preferred her redemption arc. This... this is a Viconia who hasn't really changed it seems. Had to give Jaheira the satisfaction of gutting Viconia after learning she tried to dissect Boo. @@LegionGrey
I found that the fight is much easier if you keep the party at the top of the narrow stairs near the doorway and use your PC (with mistystep or DD) to initiate the convo. The others in the group laid down glyphs of warding at the bottom of the stairs as traps. Once combat starts I teleported back to my group and dropped a wall of fire all the way down the stairs so the enemy have no choice but to run through it to gain line of sight. That along with glyphs and AOE spells thinned their numbers considerably and I focused on the casters with direct dmg. If you take the time to set up a choke point it makes the fight way easier.
Just to add, if you keep your party behind the round door, you can close it after every turn and then re-open it when it's your turn again. This means that even enemies that get to the top are unable to shoot anything at you
I used to just run to the middle of the room and use Shadowheart's Divine Intervention - Sunder the Heretical and wiped out 90% of the room. Usually downed Shadowheart too thanks to Viconia's reflect but it made fight so easy. However that no longer works as the recent change removed Radiant Vulnerability from the enemies.
You can also use flesh to stone on Viconia. If you succeed you can then kill her without any other sharran joining, and afterwards they're actually happy she died
I'm pretty sure it's a glitch that they're not aggro. The game thinks that you played a dark justiciar root and Shadowheart took over. I had a similar encounter from using dominate mind on someone who afterwards was totally chill but then aggroed after I had saved shadowhearts parents.
The easiest way to avoid this battle is to just come to Viconia without Shadowheart. That's all. She and MC will just talk, discuss the artifact, and seems like they can even make her an ally in the final battle.
It's fascinating to see other options, but before my party was wiped, Shadowheart dominated the conversation, and I didn't get much from Viconia. Thanks for showing us the conversation without Shadowheart.
My pleasure! My brain is wired to play rpg’s from the outside in. I’m proud of a recent achievement in CP2077 that says .1% have unlocked. Thank you for your comment! I hope you are enjoying the game! Have a great day!!
It actually one of my favorites fights. It intimidating at first (on tactician nway) but it one of those fights where you really need to think about what tools your party has to offer to deal with THIS situation in particular and I liked it.
The tools you have, and using the space. If you let her just surround you (as she has set things up) it's hard to beat them. But there are plenty of choke points you can fall back to and funnel enemies through dangerous spell effects. It's a great encounter.
I went insane with blackhole, nyrulna, dominate person and wall of flame. Basically just dropped huge AOE fire in the center and then yanked everyone into it while dominated the strongest non viconia NPC I could see. Everyone would get slowed and could barely leave the fire so they'd attack the guy I dominated who would then destroy the weak NPCs.
What sucks about it is that it's pretty much impossible to win without save scumming. If you take your whole party down the hall like you would usually do, you are screwed.
Great find here Legion, wish I knew that after 3 attempts ending in tpk my first run lol My working formula ended up being retreating to the stairs and casting Shadowhearts wall of blades (or whatever it's called) at 6th level so they all had to funnel through that!
Indeed! The long corridor leading to the chamber has kill zone potential! I’m not fully prepared to reveal my nuke strategy for that fight lol. but i plan on it. Thank you for commenting Ulf and hope you are well!
@@LegionGrey Sry for late response, but in BG2 she (in non-romance epilogue) finally abandons Shar and goes out on adventure and saves some Seldarine city along with Drizzt. BG3's characterization denies her character growth and story arc, basically leaving her where she started. Essentially, she was Minthara before Minthara.
Also part of me feel that Minthara and Shadow Heart fulfilling her niche as "morally ambigious Drow" and "Sharran Priestess" respectively. Part of me feel that it might be last-minute change (kinda had dumb theory that Mother Superior initially thought as a former Eilistraee priestess who turned to Shar after her group was massacred, either one at Selune fortress in Act 1 based on a sword OR death but pre-Rebirth of Eilistraee had them hunting them down since they lack goddess' protection...maybe Cleric of Eilistraee might get extra dialogue to reconsider about joining her dance again). Then again romance option include her being shanked by a Drow assassin and leaving her Half Drow son alone (Dad was too busy avenging her).@@AlexZebol
Yeah I had to completely change my party comp for this fight. Gale with wall of fire and jaheira and her dryad spamming spike growth were the only way for me to win. Even still I blew my one use of divine intervention as I thought it thematic and it was definitely needed.
Wall of ice for me at the foot of the stairs, then Insect Plague on the stairs themselves to weaken anyone who made it over the ice into the ranged attack kill zone through the doorway.
This fight was impossible the first times I tried, because I had the bug where your companions keep the Radiant damage buff from act 2. Had to long rest without swapping anyone out to get rid of it and be able to fight them at all. But it is also the fight where I learned you can use one of the poisons that puts enemies to sleep, or paralyzes them on your bow, AND use the multi-target arrows to take out a few at once. But it does raise the question, how come Shadowheart can't see through darkness? Did she miss that day at little terror academy? Pfft
I like where your head is at. If something is lore centric and the main companions aren’t consistent with that lore then… what gives? Thank you for your comments and I’m glad to hear you didn’t give up on that battle
A strat I used is focusing down Viconia with everyone but shadowheart, then upcasting spirit guardians with shadowheart to take care of everyone else. Viconia reflects double damage back to people who damage her with radiant damage, but everyone else in the room is vulnerable to it
I just ran back on the stairs and blew everyone up with fireballs once they stacked up on that bottleneck at the door, didn't took a single hit. Viconia died before she could break her Sanctuary buff even,lmao. Had 0 regrets, especially after reading the books and notes you can find there.
Or...take a bunch of explosive/oil barrels and distribute them in a giant cross shape down the stairs and to the sides. Walk down with a high dex/gloom stalker character with the rest at the top of the stairs. Start the fight, retreat to the top of the stairs, and wait a round while all of the enemies dash into the kill zone, then blow the whole thing in the beginning of the next round, killing 3/4's of the room. Mop up the leftovers.
It is incredible and kinda why I made the video to begin with... "what if....." I'm glad to hear someone focusing on the experimentation and not the rewards. Thank you! Have a great new year!
i killed viconia in a shroud of darkness in one turn and when i exited turn based mode and dismissed darkness all her allies were proclaiming that they had been purified of vicnoia's weakness and such.
Useful as this knowledge is, I wouldn't wanna miss out on the xp for clearing the room. So Viconia gets cheesed before all mobs are pulled into the fight, and then the rest get huddled by Black Hole for some heavy damage combo of Create Water and Cone of Cold.
It's a hard fight, but I found a pretty good strategy. With Jahiera and Wyll, I set up Hunger of Hadar and Plant Growth at the bottom of thr stairs. This makes an area that's very hard for them to cross with 1/4 movement speed plus damage and I was able to pick them off without taking more than a couple if hits. Wyll with repelling blast also helps, as you can knock enemies back into Hadar. But shoving or thunder wave will also do the trick. You can toss more aoes on them too, like insect plague, stinking cloud, etc. Just don't use fire, or the plant growth will burn up and need re-cast. I sent two characters down to talk, with scrolls of dimension door. Whoever goes first teleports the other back up the stairs. Then we drop the AOEs, and just keep picking them off at range. If they manage to get past Hadar, keep retreating up the stairs and into the hall. Toss more plant growth down so they can't follow at speed, and re-cast Hadar as needed.
This was my strategy but for some reason Hadar only lasted one turn, but I knew if i was going to beat them fighting it would be utilizing that bottleneck and AOEs
I saw the option to say shadowheart had died, but didn't choose it. Instead I had shadowheart talk to her, but I threw the cursed body of victoria onto her and she died while talking to me right after agreeing to join forces. The people all walked around randomly confused, but not aggressive, then full group went in and got the memories, and then I fast traveled out. Later I think I accidentally went to temple of Shar, and the people were aggressive. Anyway, it worked for me.
there are definitely some quirks with this string of options but there may be some removed content that should have explained the oddness. Thank you for commenting!! i appreciate it!
I found this option but I wanted the challenge of the fight lol. 1. I snuck 3 of my party (rogue PC, Gale, Shadowheart) past the two guards on the left side of the main stair case into the armory on the left side. Barricaded the door with all the crates in there so no one could jump over them, then laid down a whole bunch of AOE's down outside the door (hailstorm, silence, locust swarm) 2. I put 2 mummies at the top of the stairs going to the armory to draw aggro. (Mummies are hugely OP in this fight since they resist necrotic damage, they last forever and it's funny watching the AI constantly fall down on the ice while the mummies gradually bottleneck and swat them down one by one). 2. Used Karlach to talk to Viconia and instantly chose attack with initiative + haste active, then immediately ran to the armory, jumped over my barricade, and joined my other characters without Karlach taking any damage. 3. Plopped down a sphere of invulnerability in the armory and waited for everyone to funnel into the ring of silenced death I created with fear and AOE's. I think this fight was the most fun in the game for me so far. Really made me think.
Well done! The hallway is a ready made kill zone. Effectively using strategies learned from the previous portions of the game seem to come into play here quite a bit. There is a lot of room for experimentation. Thank you for your in depth strategy and comments!
I ended up casting contagion on Viconia when she did not have sanctuary. She remained incapacitated throughout the fight, and I ended up using Shadowheart's Divine Intervention to do radiant damage on the enemies to weaken them. After the Sharrans were all defeated, I then defeated Viconia while she was laying on the ground incapacitated from disease. Even with all that it, it was still a tough fight due to the quantity of enemies.
That’s a great job and a bit more conventional as larian probably intended. Really glad to hear you are trying different methods! Thank you for your comments!
by act 3 i already had a half illithid-wizard necromancer. haste + just used black hole and 2 circles of death, pretty much killed all but the 3 beefy guys in 2 turns
The combat is really hard in this place if you're not prepared. My party consists of 2 clerics (shadowheart and me) and 2 fighters (Karlarch and Laezael) with teleportation item. Each time they try to use Darkness spell I just teleport Karlach and Laezael to deal with the spell casters. I also found that using shadowheart solely as healer is the best strategy, just use Sanctuary spell on her so she won't be attacked, and continuously heal your party.
It's obvious that you will have a fight there, so i naturally left my companions behind. Then SH cast plague on the stairs and stupid bots suicided in it. Tactician btw.
if you have the eldritch blast and use stealth to get close you can blast viconia when shes juuuust within range. this will deal damage and also knock her out of range of combat and she wont see you or attack back. I did this until I killed her on my second playthrough, none of the ads aggroed until after i rescued shadow hearts parents even after killing the boss.
I found shadowhearts childhood hideout, put the party there. Had a character with high movement and misty step initiate combat then lead them back to the natural chokepoint at the wooden ladder. Used air myrmidon for the raging vortex and evards tentacles to whittle them all down. Fish in a barrel.
So sad they made Viconia (the best BG1 and 2 companion) so antagonist and not a companion, also she is still a young drow, so why they made her look like she is an ugly grandmom :(
I dealt with this battle with outrageous amounts of AoE, specially wall of fire. If you have Gale as an Evocation wizard it gets even better because his spells will not hit you and the sharrians will clump up on top of you. Have your tank talk to Viconia while leaving the other 3 behind. While 4 guys will try to flank you, i have the experience that using summons to distract them is best, while we try to kill the ones that clump on your tank because they will be weakened by the AoE
A wonderful tactic (i especially liked the evocation Gale part)! Sounds like you baited them into party versus letting them bottleneck you in. Thank you for commenting!
@@LegionGrey Yes, bringing them to me was a tactic on the comp I had at the time. The other comp I faced them with had a run-around Karlach quickly finishing the casters, I paladin-warlock durge to tank everything, 1 Shart to kind of tank but heal and buff the team and 1 assassin astarion to kill someone each turn then turn invisible due to durge cape. Very different approach, but a solid one nonetheless. Karlach was an eagle barbarian, so all opp attacks vs her had disadvantage, freeing her mobility. The tanks were doing their jobs holding concentration and not taking damage/forcing duels (I even managed a Dominate Beast on shapeshifted Viconia with shart lol). It took more time to finish the battle, but it was a very hard comp to put down with what the sharrians had
For the 4 that flank you, I went in as a Gloomstalker main, hasted, and gave each of them a pair of Smokepowder Arrows. Then mopped up their remaining health with Dread Ambish, and a bevy if bonus action arrows because dual wielding hand bows is AWESOME
My first go around, this fight was the hardest in the whole game, but so satisfying to complete because Shadowheart is my favorite character, always romanced, and I love seeing her quest to fruition. The second go around? We wiped the floor with them, and I got a unique interaction between Viconia and Shadow that I missed my first time. "Let it go, mother...Embrace loss." I was like "yeah, my girl."
If you have a strong party the fight is really not that bad: 1) globe of invulnerability is absurdly OP, if you have a wizard or sorc cast it and you did a decent job on stats they should have high initiative and you can open with it and setup the next 3 rounds, this is absurdly OP already. 2) Black hole + the stun partial ilithid spell, you can use black hole to cluster and suck enemies out of the protection area when they get in (if you opened with 1), then use the AOE stun to setup a nuke round. The slow alone does a number on them anyway, the stun is just a cherry on top. 3) water + chain lightning AOE, esp from a sorc that can twin it will deal absurd damage, you can have 4 casts of it : 1 from slot, 1 from OP staff (kerska's favor and choose lighting), 1 from partial illithid power that gives a free cast, 1 from arcane battery. A sorc with haste and twin spell can cast it 3 times, 2 of them twined -- so 5 in total, on wet enemies, that alone will be about 300-600 damage. 4) smoke powder bombs 5) monk with resonate explosion and the cull the weak deals very good aoe with proper gear. 6)ranged/or warlock blaster can do some insane single target with a decent spec/items In act 3, you have access to so many absurdly OP items, you should have 1-2 DPS that can burst 3-400 damage in a round with haste and elixirs. If you lack the dps, you should have a lot of CC, if you have neither, you should reconsider your build :) The most annoying part of the viconia fight is the darkness spells, but if you open properly you can burst most of the casters down, have sunlight on one of your other companions to dispel it if needed. Generally, if you have really good burst just nuke the boss, if you have good aoe nuke the adds. On harder fights, use globe and setup haste and all that first round, then nuke everyone on the next. For BG3 and most turn based RPGs, most fights are won on paper based on your build and party comp.
WOW!! Thank you for the highly detailed reply! I appreciate the time and effort you made to mention all these things. I do believe that part of the reason why this encounter is so late is so the player is more familiar with strategy and options by this point. Thank you for your contribution!!
Viconia should be much more attractive! In a Drow lifespan she's in her mid to late 30's. For all of us who played BG1 and BG2 it would be nice to be able to recruit her.
I don’t disagree. I have thrown around the idea that she is perhaps a doppelgänger as it’s a common trope BG does to explain away something out of place. Thank you for your comments!
I beat this encounter first try with a pretty sub-optimal group and no preparation of any kind on tactician mode. I wrote how I did it below. It was the biggest numbers fight I had had in a while, so of COURSE it had to happen JUST as I had removed Gale from the party. My party was myself (paladin) with Halberd of Vigilance, Karlach (berserker with Nyrulna, Shadowheart, and Jaheira (Circle of the land druid). Sadly Gale also was carrying most of my scrolls, so I really had to figure something out with pretty limited spells. Initially I wanted to kite the room back to a chokepoint and blast away with every AOE scroll I had but the distance seemed too far and the fight started with no prior preparation on my part - so I castled up on the spot. Here's how I won: 1. I cast an invulnerability field on my party and threw a haste spore grenade on the party to start off 2. Walled a large portion of one side of the approach off with fire wall, catching as many NPCs as I could in the line of the initial casting 3. I repeatedly either cast Gust of Wind or Zephyr Break to remove the dense clouds 4. I used Shadowheart's "Bless" concentration initially to help land hits so I could kill primary targets early (like Viconia) and swapped to Spirit Guardians once all the npc's in the room dogpiled me. 5. I used a Void Bulb to cluster npc's up more and drag some back into the fire 6. i used every AOE thing I had at my disposal. I had one chain lightning scroll and just kept chucking Nyrulna over and over again which is a great AOE nuke, using Jaheira to cast spells and stab at low health NPC's. 7. I did have an issue with NPC's getting into the invuln field and I did try to push them out in various ways when I could, but if they entered the field I immediately deprioritized them and went for the ones outside the field. It all worked out very well and I finished the fight with minimal damage on just one casting of Invulnerability globe.
I fight but I don’t even engage in dialogue. I make gale invisible and sneak to one of the flanks and cask a couple of ice storms (2nd after taking speed potion) and surprise the room. You get a good jump on everyone.
Indeed. Getting the advantage is extremely helpful. It is rare for me to start any combat at a disadvantage, but if you never have to start that way knowing you WILL fight then that does seem optimal. Thank you for commenting!
I did this after shadowheart left my party for not bringing her to the nightsong and I did not have any option for her being dead or gone. I said i'd surrender her and jaheira did not like that even though jaheira never met shadowheart lol
I used three wizards and a fighter/barbarian, all with the alert perk, to slaughter the Shar worshipers. After the dialog, I kept the party at top of the stairs and rained cold spells on the stairs. I was only hit twice in the entire battle while playing on balanced mode.
I didn't need her as an ally at the end so I just had Tav walk past invisible and go lockpick and open the door. Then bring shadowheart up invisible when the door is unlocked and send the rest back to camp (to save invis potions). Then she can resolve her quest either way without having to do the large battle.
Very true! I felt compelled to speak to Viconia though. Once you have done the play through a few times then the optional dialogues aren't required, but I'm glad to hear how you experimented! Thank you for commenting!
I summoned Scratch outside the room, ungrouped him and sent him in solo to talk to Viconia, selected Attack dialogue. For some reason this glitches the battle so that no one aggros. Scratch is free to leave. Then rest of party can go invisible and do the lockpick as per your vid. Or stack smokepowder barrels around Viconia and one-shot her. This also works with Shovel.
Thank you for your comment! Scratch! That's great! Yes i can see how that could (did) glitch the encounter! Imagine a dog infiltrating the Shar guild headquarters in the area! Thank you for that! Amazing!
@@LegionGrey The cutscene is pretty hilarious. For some reason the camera focuses on Scratch's feet when Viconia is reading his mind. For the rest he just wags his tail at her.
Thank you for your comments! XP is great but keep in mind that Larian has a built in system to reward via xp and other things for non combat solutions. Ultimately there are reasons why some may choose Shar as their deity… I plan to explore some of these in future videos! Once again, thank you for your contribution and glad to hear you are enjoying the game!
I hate how they butchered one of my favorite BG2 characters here. I know they made Viconia align with the Wizards of the Coast canon - but I absolutely hate hat they made her a boring simplified villian. She was a much more complex character in BG2.
I don't disagree with you. I plan on presenting a video that goes over much of this. I have suspicions that her story may have been more involved, but also may have been part of the cut content they have previously addressed. Thank you for your comment!!
Fast and ez way of winning this fight: Elixir of vigilance on mage. Cast flame wall, cast black hole pull viconia inside the flames. She kinda bugs out and just stands there dying, doesnt even cast her stupid things.
Hide the entire group upstairs, get few summons and AOE spells (like "Cloud kill"), go to speak with Viconia with 1-2 characters, initiate combat and Dimension door back to group. Now enemy has to attack your group on high-ground through narrow stairway filled with death clouds, daggers, grease etc. Or use dwarf warfare tactics: bring as many crates and sturdy chests as you can, build a labyrinth with them and see enemies spending their turns on jumps, misty steps and dashing through death cloud and your summons, while you hiding or shooting at them from above. At patch 3 Viconia can't die and will be knocked-out automatically (or you can activate this option to ensure she's alive) and this way you'll get the post-fight dialogs and ability to spare her life.
Indeed! Using the hallway to bottleneck the issue is a great tactic! Lots of ways to approach the combat. Glad to see you experimenting! Thank you for your comments!!
me and my friend found smokepowder barrels and fire barrels, i went in and talked alone to viconia, after she sent me to retrieve shadowheart we surrounded her with explosive barrels and smokepowder bombs, we then struck the barrels with a fireball, killed viconia and the room was not hostile.
I solved this in Tactician with explosions and...well tactics. Give Karl 2 oil barrels, 3 alchemist fire, 6 - 7 smokepowder bombs, and some explosive jelly. Give Gale the blind immunity ring. Ungroup Shadowheart. Have her start the conversation alone. Go into character selection during the dialogue. Karl places the barrels on either side of Viconia, and places the smaller items on top of the barrels. Tav (Crit Warlock w/ devil's sight) gets right next to Shadowheart. Gale runs to the stairs on the left, past Viconia, with the opulent chest at the top and chucks a 4th level fireball to ignite the payload from the top of the stairs. Viconia nuked on turn 1. To survive the rest, you need to screw up the action economy and restrict the Sharrans' movement. Karl books ass to the stairs in front of Gale, Tav dimension doors Shadowheart to the top of the stairs where Gale is. Now half of the enemies need to waste an action or two on dash get within striking distance _and_ they're funnelling into one of two choke points. Get Gale and Shadowheart in in the corner for sniping, healing, and concentration spells. Tav and Karl do crowd control (i.e. Tav scares the shit out of the Sharrans while Karl hits 'em with a big hammer). Helpful spells: Wall of fire (cut off choke points), Dimension Door/Misty Step (if they break your line, you need to get far away, fast), Spirit Guardians (hilariously effective when she stands close to the edge of a WOF choke point), Hold Person (great combo with Mortal Reminder build, helps crowd control).
Thank you for the detailed breakdown! This particular battle is very open and can be cheesed, but it definitely reminds me of the classic battles in BG1 and 2.
I did the conversation then grouped my party up in the centre of the stairs where the two pairs of guards can flank you. Had already summoned a planar ally: Djinn and had him cast Sweetplum gales on the stairs leading to Viconia. It restrains anyone who attempts to cross it, so when the enemies took their turn, they all pretty much got stunned by the stairs in one massive clump. Then I AOEd them down with fireballs and spirit guardian
Thank you for the comment! I just released a Viconia lore video so I completely agree with your point of view. There should be a way (lore related) to keep SH as a loyal Sharite and new matron mother releasing Viconia from her duties and bringing her into our party. If Larian wants me for consultation... lol
@@LegionGrey Yeah, I always thought it was weird that Viconia doesn't die in the fight like literally every other boss in the game and you have to actually chose to kill her afterwards. If you choose to spare her life, Shadowheart as Shar's right hand should be able to make Viconia swear fealty to her.
@@MistyKathrine correct. Shar can be fickle, and does not care about any of her servants at the end of the day. So... as long as Viconia swears to not usurp SH or disturb the new Shar order (lol) then it IS possible that Shar could release Viconia and allow her to retain her cleric abilities. There are many paths the lore could go. Thank you for sharing your insight about the subject!
- leave your party at the top of the stairs, sending your face forward for the conversation - when combat starts high tail it up the stairs with your face. - put a wall of fire at the base of the stairs - let everyone run through the wall of fire and bunch up on the stairs. - drop cloud kill or another powerful AOE after that the fight becomes pretty trivial.
definitely! isolating the room is very doable. manipulating party members during a conversation is rarely used but can be done before conversation is over so as to prepare your position in an inevitable encounter. thank you for commenting!!!
Hadar is great here. Unfortunately they can see through the darkness, but it's difficult terrain and damage. Plant growth is also awesome, that movement penalty is brutal.
I do think that that is the common reaction to many encounters. I like to try to find alternate solutions just in case they pay off. Thank you for commenting!
Не прощу Larian, то, что они сделали с Виконией, она всегда была сама за себя, и никогда не была фанатичной Шариткой, Шаритка помогала защитить Калимпорт от последователей Горгота? Шаритка помогла Высшим эльфам и была принята королевой, при том что она drow? Викония прошла сложный путь с дитем Баала, и уже ей не требовалось забвение, Викония потеряла все, обрекла на себя гнев Ллос, за то, что отказалась принести в жертву ребенка, что мы видим в BG3? Викония годами мучает Шедоухарт, только потому что, так захотела богиня, полный вздор.😮
Thank you for the comments!! I will say though… she is very grateful to Shar. Her devotion to Shar was never on the level of zealotry in bg1-2, however, her gratitude to Shar is evident and could manifest over time. Again, thank you!!
I don't get that option either. I've left Shadowheart back in camp. I've ungrouped her from the party. I've left her outside the House of Grief. It tricks the girl on reception if I have left SH back at camp, but it doesn't trick Viconia, who won't let me in until I bring Shadowheart to her. I don't get the option to say she is dead. I'm guessing they've removed the option during a patch or I have to kill SH in some way that I can later revive her. But so far I haven't found a way to do it. I created a hireling cleric to cast Feign Death on SH. The spell was cast successfully. SH remained inactive and ungrouped outside the house; but as soon as my TAV sat on the bench to talk to Viconia, the cutscene showed SH in the room with my party and the dialogue options behaved as if SH was alive and inside the house. So.... that didn't work. I also tried to use Scratch to interact with the receptionist and sit on the bench; but neither interactions were possible and so I had to abandon that possibility. (My goal is to have Viconia as an ally for the final battle, but also keep Shadowheart in my party; and of course to allow SH to find her parents).
I found if you kill her with aoe before talking nobody agros which is kind of nice and peaceful. They even have comments about their leader gone. Haven't seen path that's meant for tbh
True! It may be one of those subjects that Larian removed prior to launch. It makes sense that if you don’t have SH turn away from Shar that that becomes an option. Thank you for commenting!
Or just have one person (just not Shadowheart) talk to her, switch characters, and blast her with fireballs. The rest will be passive and mourn her while you take the black diamond and lockpick the door in peace haha
Agreed, this is likely the simplest of methods. I don't think that is necessarily how Larian intended, but did account for. Switching characters isn't something you see very often (everyone gets caught up in the cinematics). Thank you for your comment!
I think that is just an exploit of the design bug that the dialog doesn't stop even if you start fighting. Of course you can come over it this way, but I prefer the way by playing. I'm not through it yet. I tried Globe of Invulnerability which started nicely but then they overwhelmed me with Darkness spells so that I couldn't deal damage outside. I think there are some "bugs" in the game also: I casted Daylight but that just dispelled one Darkness. Next Darkness negated the Daylight again which shouldn't be the case (in my opinion and in D&D 5Es). I like the idea of not going in with Shadowheart. That's what was my next idea also. The encounter is insanely hard. I don't know what Larian had in mind with such stuff. There are many encounters which are more than deadly (e.g. the Vampire fight if you don't accept losing Astarion) - if you don't cheat.
Thank you for the comment, but you can direct your other party members around during conversation. There is a character selection in lower left (on PC). Moving your characters around when another character is mid conversation is just another tactical option you can use in game. The very long hallway leading to the chamber is often used as an exploit to bottleneck the fight in you favor and if Larian really wanted to make it insanely hard then the hallways would be filled with guards and/or the followers at the entrance of the House of Pain would come in to investigate and cause issues from behind. I'm glad to hear you are enjoying your play through!@@Jalella42
@@LegionGrey yeah it is a really hard fight but for some reason having shadowheart cast sanctuary on herself a turn or 2 in seems to make it much easier
this is an easy fight... keep everyone at the top of the stairs and attack the closest guard cast locust swarm and firewall in the chokepoint and watch them run into it like moths to a flame.
Her look in this game can never compare to our minds eye from the og BG games. I don’t disagree with you though. Stay tuned for more future character/game deep dives! Thank you for your comment!
Soooo you miss out on a really cool weapon, robe and the vault key along with a super cool fight. I guess it's a way to do it but this is probably the worst way to do so.
I am currently working on a longer lore video to explain this point a view a bit more. If you are familiar with the original series then some of these choices are not necessarily good or bad. The point of view of the player can vary based on the history of the NPC’s involved. Thank you for your comment!! However, I respectfully disagree that this is the worst possible outcome.
damn they really aged Viconia, elves are not supposed to show their age till near the end of their lifespan. Her old artwork from bg was based of a adult star if you wonder why her original artwork she was so good looking.
That isn't incorrect at all, however, we may not have all the information related to the events between BG2 ToB and BG3, but if it is as linear as it is presented then, yes, there is a discrepancy with the portrayal of Viconia. Stay tuned for a future video where I'll try to tackle some of these issues. Thank you for your comments!!
In my recent playthrough, I stumbled upon another strategy to kill Lady Viconia without making the others aggro on us. Apparently the throw item distance is so huge, you can sort of off screen her from the entrance of the sanctum. She just dies and the rest go about their business. You can even loot her corpse completely and no-one complains. I did this by throwing Nirulna from the sanctum entrance. Let me know if this worked for anyone else.
Hmm. Interesting! Yes, Nirulina can hit with a crit for thunder damage. I would not have thought that it would be powerful enough to do enough damage, but it is before her buffs and things. Excellent use of experimentation! Thank you for your comment!!!
I found a spot about half way down the steps where I could hide with my archer and pepper her with arrows. Her minions don't react and you can loot her shield and stroll to the back room.
Huh. A bit of tactical lying and stealth and you can keep Shadowheart AND have the Sharrans' help in the final fight. It's actually pretty cool that you can get away with this.
To be clear you can’t perform both. I mentioned in video that if you continue to stealth into the parents’ room that that will code game as your party as hostile upon sight. It is, however, a method to not have to fight anyone and still end up with an unusual ally at the end. Thank you for your comment!
I just brute forced it? I saw Viconia had Sanctuary up and I said "Hmm. Some AOE will get around Sanctuary I wonder if Moonbeam will. It does. Viconoa... dint move. Dint attack. Didn't GET OUT OF THE COLUMN OF DEATH LIGHT. and in three or four rounds just slowly withered into a raisin. And then died. And after combat, Moonbeam struck again before I could break the spell. In the words of the game: "The corpse is too badly mangled to speak." So don't pass off Shadowheart
very good! Yes it is possible to agree, gain het trust, then betray her instantly. I’ve kinda felt she should perhaps have more armor and be immune to backstab but… Thank you for commenting!!
Valid tactical method! I do think Larian intended to let the conversation play out but if it’s known that a skirmish will happen then that’s a solid way to go. Thank you!!
The fight isn't hard. Keep one person high to kill the top 4. Bring that person around to flank. A caster in the middle can blow up the other side. Stay mobile to avoid darkness. Punk Vicki with a fighter.
Avoiding darkness is key. Good call! The fight can be managed, but there are several who are new to the turn based strategy and this video was also trying to show a non combat solution just in case anyone wanted to see other options. Thank you for your comment!! I appreciate your detailed analysis of the tactics you employed!
It could be but the narrative isn’t written as an impossibility either. Lying happens… especially in D&D and the circumstances behind the Sharrites not reacting to a quick Viconia death implies that there is something impeding everyone’s ability to assess the situation. Larian had stated there is a significant amount of cut content and perhaps it led to some inconsistencies or there could be revelations in updates to come. Thank you for your comments!!
After she wants SH's surrender, 4th dialog option that says she is dead doesn't appear in my game. Well yeah she is alive so i reckon this video only applies if SH is dead in your run
Thank you for the information. I don't think they hotfixed it as it's appears to be method to deceive. However, she was definitely not dead in my attempt or recreations. I just left SH outside of dialogue range. Thank you for the comment!!
I made an almost 2 hour video in honor of Vicki. Check it out. I address the age issue briefly. Thank you for commenting! th-cam.com/video/I-Tm-zAeqkk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KIVySm_Xc7j_6gdf
Howdy! Thank you for commenting! Yes, we all have our positions when it comes to Viconia. Nothing can replace the imagination though. Stay tuned for more Viconia videos! ;)
I can appreciate that point of view, but stay tuned to the channel as I plan on going over how and why some characters do some things. Thank you for your comment!
it appears so. i don’t believe it’s intended as a tactical method but included in the event that SH is actually deceased. however, role play options are always great. thank you for commenting!!
I stood in the tiny spot on the stairs between cone of vision of shar followers (just before dialogue triggers) and sniped Viconia with Shadowheart, she took 3 guiding bolts, died, room started talking about her death and SH being the new leader.... opened the door normal way, finished SH quest and as I was walking back whole room turned hostile. idk if it's a bug or intended but might be a way to avoid some combat or make it easier
that’s amazing!!! i think the trigger is going into back room and triggering the back guard. maybe they will do something with that in future. thank you for telling me about your technique! i love hearing about inventive methods of gameplay. have a great day!
Let me just say... Viconia DeVir is my FAVORITE companion in original BG series and I do not disagree with you, but I'm sure Larian has some reasons to depart from some known female Drow qualities (extra height, strength, musculature), but I am just happy to see her again. Thank you for commenting! I really appreciate your feedback!
@LegionGrey she's my favorite too. I just remember her as the fairly high charms priest so it stuck out to me. 14 meant even more back in those days than in 5e. Not to mention she's still young for an elf. Even if it's 120 years later.
Drow can live 900 or more years easily. She was in he 90's in BG2, so about 210 years old above. She's still in her twenties in human years. She not only looks nothing like her BG self, but looks a lot older than she should as well.
SPOILER: I went down with shadowheart in the team. during dialogue, i selected a different character out of conversation and pre-empted a one-shot kill on Viconia. Interestingly the rest of the people in the dungeon did not attack but rather had some interesting dialogue regarding their former leader. I felt a bit bugged and cheesy. In any case this prompted me to think there is another way. you found one way, but i wonder if there is a way to ostrasize her from the rest of the group.
Very good! Moving companions around while carrying a conversation is a rarely used strategy. The fact that Viconia is not missed or mourned is an interesting event. Thank you for commenting!!
@@LegionGrey the conversation was like, "I can't believe she has us deceived" or something to the like of them questioning their Shar devotion. You should try it yourself a see. It's a while and I don't remember the details. It would be awesome if Nightsong was there too...
I am actually aware of it. The scene plays as if the disciples are under a geas, but it isn’t specific. There could be more to this story as the consistent original BG players insist on is that Viconia isn’t themselves… so that begs the question… what is going on?
Why was this fight hard? Shadowheart in my playthrough (evil delf durge) killed the nightsong and was sent here.. all the justicar's sided with Shadowheart and one shot the archers and mages. Shadow blinded vicona (and everyone nearby) which slowed things down but kept shadow over 50% hp, then it was like a 12v1
It can be difficult based on how Larian intended, but you definitely can mitigate some issues depending on story and build. the Sharrites are prone to radiant damage except for Viconia, but… she too can take some damage. Thank you for your comment!
I won this battle easly, selecting Shadowheart as main character, following her quest without any doubt on my goddess and becaming the herald of Shar, winning every gauntlet trial, getting the spear and killing the nightsong. Almost every soldier in that hall turned on my side, we were about 14 vs 6 characters.
Well done! Thank you for commenting! I originally made the video to show how you can get the SH story, back room items, and also recruit Viconia and her army for the future battle. Once again, thank you!
Thank you for commenting!! Yes, the conventional method is to fight, but as a Viconia admirer in previous titles I wanted to search out alternative methods.
@@LegionGrey Yes it's is really disappointing and disheartening that the person I always spent two games turning away from evil bit by bit to ultimately succeeds. ( to a point ) Becomes plus minus antagonist in this game. Plus they even made her look much worse than her picture in original games. I just made myself a head cannon that this Viconia is just an impersonator and real Viconia is some place else. I know it sounds stupid, but it eases my disappointment. TBH I am hoping for a mod that could tackle Viconia issue.
Excellent point. It is a ready made kill zone. The conversation option is there mainly to avoid the combat and get option otherwise unknown to most playthroughs. Thank you for commenting!!
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Save iron hand gnomes from moonrise tower -> recieve smokepowder bomb in act 3 -> blow up shar's temple instead of steel watch foundry
An EXCELLENT point! I have had the misfortune of having many buggy encounters with them so i’ve never considered using them. Thank you!
@LegionGrey the bomb has a huge radius, so it can take at least half of the people in that room. It can be thrown and won't break like a wooden barrel. But may explode if throwing from a tall ledge. Cheers
@@ricardocalderon9823 if you fill a backpack with explosives you can throw from a minimal height and the bag will burst but the contents will remain intact. contents SHOULD include barrels (unless it was hot fixed). this is a great tactic for massive booms in one spot/area
No. Put all in bag. Advanced invisibility on stealth wizard. Put 2 timed snowballs into the bag. Drop it off. Go anywhere. First one breaks bag with perfect item stacking in single point. Second sets off runepowder barrels. You can take out anyone like this even if you travel to different region like even camp. 0 combat.
I used the Runepowder bomb I stole from moonrise and the runepowder bomb from the ironhand gnomes in Rivington to blow up Raphael lol.
In my experience nearly any encounter can be simplified if you have enough smokepowder
Hahaha! True! You aren’t wrong, but you would also miss out on the rare opportunity to work with Shar’s mother superior. Thank you for commenting!
You spelled runepowder oddly
Don't forget the most powerful weapon of all, kitty cat "meow meow". (and barrels)
When in doubt, C4
the problem is these cultists always seem to get the initiative.
That is a nice one, good for you for finding it and leaving Viconia alive. 😉
She is my favorite. However, doing the SH quest will require going into back room and making House of Grief hostile for future visits.
I too was a Viconia fan though preferred her redemption arc. This... this is a Viconia who hasn't really changed it seems. Had to give Jaheira the satisfaction of gutting Viconia after learning she tried to dissect Boo. @@LegionGrey
I found that the fight is much easier if you keep the party at the top of the narrow stairs near the doorway and use your PC (with mistystep or DD) to initiate the convo. The others in the group laid down glyphs of warding at the bottom of the stairs as traps. Once combat starts I teleported back to my group and dropped a wall of fire all the way down the stairs so the enemy have no choice but to run through it to gain line of sight. That along with glyphs and AOE spells thinned their numbers considerably and I focused on the casters with direct dmg. If you take the time to set up a choke point it makes the fight way easier.
Definitely! That’s a great tactic. The hallway is a ready made kill zone. Thank you for your comments!!!
Ha, that's exactly what I did. Was a bloody massacre.
Just to add, if you keep your party behind the round door, you can close it after every turn and then re-open it when it's your turn again. This means that even enemies that get to the top are unable to shoot anything at you
@player276 excellent observation!
I used to just run to the middle of the room and use Shadowheart's Divine Intervention - Sunder the Heretical and wiped out 90% of the room. Usually downed Shadowheart too thanks to Viconia's reflect but it made fight so easy. However that no longer works as the recent change removed Radiant Vulnerability from the enemies.
You can also use flesh to stone on Viconia. If you succeed you can then kill her without any other sharran joining, and afterwards they're actually happy she died
I have thought of that option and keep forgetting to try it. Well done! Thank you for telling me about it!!
I'm pretty sure it's a glitch that they're not aggro. The game thinks that you played a dark justiciar root and Shadowheart took over. I had a similar encounter from using dominate mind on someone who afterwards was totally chill but then aggroed after I had saved shadowhearts parents.
i wouldn't skip it as it's one of my favorite fights in the game but it's always cool to see other options
Exactly! I figured many individuals want the items or to just clear the room. I wanted to show a “what if” scenario. Thank you for your comment!!
The easiest way to avoid this battle is to just come to Viconia without Shadowheart. That's all. She and MC will just talk, discuss the artifact, and seems like they can even make her an ally in the final battle.
Facts
It's fascinating to see other options, but before my party was wiped, Shadowheart dominated the conversation, and I didn't get much from Viconia. Thanks for showing us the conversation without Shadowheart.
My pleasure! My brain is wired to play rpg’s from the outside in. I’m proud of a recent achievement in CP2077 that says .1% have unlocked. Thank you for your comment! I hope you are enjoying the game! Have a great day!!
i explored the options in viconia's dialogs but i found a sweet option in pure violence after all, that warms my heart more, cool video thanks.
Thank you! I'm glad you are enjoying the game! Thank you for commenting as well!!
It actually one of my favorites fights. It intimidating at first (on tactician nway) but it one of those fights where you really need to think about what tools your party has to offer to deal with THIS situation in particular and I liked it.
That’s incredibly awesome to hear!! Glad to hear it was memorable for you. Thank you for your comment and have a great day!!
The tools you have, and using the space. If you let her just surround you (as she has set things up) it's hard to beat them. But there are plenty of choke points you can fall back to and funnel enemies through dangerous spell effects. It's a great encounter.
Fight with Raphael is the best, music is funny and the fight is insane
I went insane with blackhole, nyrulna, dominate person and wall of flame. Basically just dropped huge AOE fire in the center and then yanked everyone into it while dominated the strongest non viconia NPC I could see. Everyone would get slowed and could barely leave the fire so they'd attack the guy I dominated who would then destroy the weak NPCs.
What sucks about it is that it's pretty much impossible to win without save scumming. If you take your whole party down the hall like you would usually do, you are screwed.
Great find here Legion, wish I knew that after 3 attempts ending in tpk my first run lol My working formula ended up being retreating to the stairs and casting Shadowhearts wall of blades (or whatever it's called) at 6th level so they all had to funnel through that!
Indeed! The long corridor leading to the chamber has kill zone potential! I’m not fully prepared to reveal my nuke strategy for that fight lol. but i plan on it. Thank you for commenting Ulf and hope you are well!
they did Viconia dirty in BG3
Thank you for commenting! Although I don’t disagree… how so?
100%
@@LegionGrey Sry for late response, but in BG2 she (in non-romance epilogue) finally abandons Shar and goes out on adventure and saves some Seldarine city along with Drizzt. BG3's characterization denies her character growth and story arc, basically leaving her where she started.
Essentially, she was Minthara before Minthara.
Also part of me feel that Minthara and Shadow Heart fulfilling her niche as "morally ambigious Drow" and "Sharran Priestess" respectively. Part of me feel that it might be last-minute change (kinda had dumb theory that Mother Superior initially thought as a former Eilistraee priestess who turned to Shar after her group was massacred, either one at Selune fortress in Act 1 based on a sword OR death but pre-Rebirth of Eilistraee had them hunting them down since they lack goddess' protection...maybe Cleric of Eilistraee might get extra dialogue to reconsider about joining her dance again).
Then again romance option include her being shanked by a Drow assassin and leaving her Half Drow son alone (Dad was too busy avenging her).@@AlexZebol
BG3 rides on the coattails of BG2, and does so poorly@@powerist209
The fight is super easy if you keep your party out of the room and drop a wall of fire at the bottom of the stairs.
Absolutely! the hallway is a ready made kill zone! Thank you for your comment!
this is what i did! (on my third try lol)
Yeah I had to completely change my party comp for this fight. Gale with wall of fire and jaheira and her dryad spamming spike growth were the only way for me to win. Even still I blew my one use of divine intervention as I thought it thematic and it was definitely needed.
Wall of ice for me at the foot of the stairs, then Insect Plague on the stairs themselves to weaken anyone who made it over the ice into the ranged attack kill zone through the doorway.
This fight was impossible the first times I tried, because I had the bug where your companions keep the Radiant damage buff from act 2. Had to long rest without swapping anyone out to get rid of it and be able to fight them at all. But it is also the fight where I learned you can use one of the poisons that puts enemies to sleep, or paralyzes them on your bow, AND use the multi-target arrows to take out a few at once.
But it does raise the question, how come Shadowheart can't see through darkness? Did she miss that day at little terror academy? Pfft
I like where your head is at. If something is lore centric and the main companions aren’t consistent with that lore then… what gives? Thank you for your comments and I’m glad to hear you didn’t give up on that battle
A strat I used is focusing down Viconia with everyone but shadowheart, then upcasting spirit guardians with shadowheart to take care of everyone else. Viconia reflects double damage back to people who damage her with radiant damage, but everyone else in the room is vulnerable to it
That is a great strategy! Yes! Many people abandon radiant damage as it doesn’t work on Viconia directly. Thank you for sharing!
Well, in Tactician dificulty everyone has it too, its a specific fight to counter shadowheart.
She has sactuary but can kill with aoe spells like fireball or bag of boom. Has zero agro from anyone else or her if you do instead of speaking
I just ran back on the stairs and blew everyone up with fireballs once they stacked up on that bottleneck at the door, didn't took a single hit. Viconia died before she could break her Sanctuary buff even,lmao. Had 0 regrets, especially after reading the books and notes you can find there.
that's definitely a kill zone if used properly@@Palumtra ! Thank you for your comment!
Or...take a bunch of explosive/oil barrels and distribute them in a giant cross shape down the stairs and to the sides. Walk down with a high dex/gloom stalker character with the rest at the top of the stairs. Start the fight, retreat to the top of the stairs, and wait a round while all of the enemies dash into the kill zone, then blow the whole thing in the beginning of the next round, killing 3/4's of the room. Mop up the leftovers.
Indeed! The corridor is a made to fit kill zone. Thank you for your comment! I hope you have been enjoying the game!
Stuff like this is why this game is awesome even if some fights make me rage
It is incredible and kinda why I made the video to begin with... "what if....." I'm glad to hear someone focusing on the experimentation and not the rewards. Thank you! Have a great new year!
i killed viconia in a shroud of darkness in one turn and when i exited turn based mode and dismissed darkness all her allies were proclaiming that they had been purified of vicnoia's weakness and such.
Really?!? that’s the first time i’ve heard that. Thank you for sharing!
@@LegionGreyi confirm this. I oneshot Viconia with barrels and sharrans did nothing to me and was talking about how is life without her be.
Useful as this knowledge is, I wouldn't wanna miss out on the xp for clearing the room. So Viconia gets cheesed before all mobs are pulled into the fight, and then the rest get huddled by Black Hole for some heavy damage combo of Create Water and Cone of Cold.
Indeed! A very tactical way to approach it. I like it! Thank you for your comment! I appreciate all the information that comes to me.
I was level 12 few minutes into act3 so xp not that big
@@im7254 Guess I missed a lot of xp in earlier acts. I was only close to lvl 10.
Same was like 2 battles from lv 12 entering Rivongton and wish I had the lv 20 mod installed.
It's a hard fight, but I found a pretty good strategy.
With Jahiera and Wyll, I set up Hunger of Hadar and Plant Growth at the bottom of thr stairs. This makes an area that's very hard for them to cross with 1/4 movement speed plus damage and I was able to pick them off without taking more than a couple if hits. Wyll with repelling blast also helps, as you can knock enemies back into Hadar. But shoving or thunder wave will also do the trick. You can toss more aoes on them too, like insect plague, stinking cloud, etc. Just don't use fire, or the plant growth will burn up and need re-cast.
I sent two characters down to talk, with scrolls of dimension door. Whoever goes first teleports the other back up the stairs. Then we drop the AOEs, and just keep picking them off at range. If they manage to get past Hadar, keep retreating up the stairs and into the hall. Toss more plant growth down so they can't follow at speed, and re-cast Hadar as needed.
The hallway is definitely a bottleneck that works well! Thank you for your comment!!
This was my strategy but for some reason Hadar only lasted one turn, but I knew if i was going to beat them fighting it would be utilizing that bottleneck and AOEs
I saw the option to say shadowheart had died, but didn't choose it. Instead I had shadowheart talk to her, but I threw the cursed body of victoria onto her and she died while talking to me right after agreeing to join forces. The people all walked around randomly confused, but not aggressive, then full group went in and got the memories, and then I fast traveled out.
Later I think I accidentally went to temple of Shar, and the people were aggressive. Anyway, it worked for me.
there are definitely some quirks with this string of options but there may be some removed content that should have explained the oddness. Thank you for commenting!! i appreciate it!
I found this option but I wanted the challenge of the fight lol.
1. I snuck 3 of my party (rogue PC, Gale, Shadowheart) past the two guards on the left side of the main stair case into the armory on the left side. Barricaded the door with all the crates in there so no one could jump over them, then laid down a whole bunch of AOE's down outside the door (hailstorm, silence, locust swarm)
2. I put 2 mummies at the top of the stairs going to the armory to draw aggro. (Mummies are hugely OP in this fight since they resist necrotic damage, they last forever and it's funny watching the AI constantly fall down on the ice while the mummies gradually bottleneck and swat them down one by one).
2. Used Karlach to talk to Viconia and instantly chose attack with initiative + haste active, then immediately ran to the armory, jumped over my barricade, and joined my other characters without Karlach taking any damage.
3. Plopped down a sphere of invulnerability in the armory and waited for everyone to funnel into the ring of silenced death I created with fear and AOE's.
I think this fight was the most fun in the game for me so far. Really made me think.
Well done! The hallway is a ready made kill zone. Effectively using strategies learned from the previous portions of the game seem to come into play here quite a bit. There is a lot of room for experimentation. Thank you for your in depth strategy and comments!
I ended up casting contagion on Viconia when she did not have sanctuary. She remained incapacitated throughout the fight, and I ended up using Shadowheart's Divine Intervention to do radiant damage on the enemies to weaken them. After the Sharrans were all defeated, I then defeated Viconia while she was laying on the ground incapacitated from disease. Even with all that it, it was still a tough fight due to the quantity of enemies.
That’s a great job and a bit more conventional as larian probably intended. Really glad to hear you are trying different methods! Thank you for your comments!
by act 3 i already had a half illithid-wizard necromancer. haste + just used black hole and 2 circles of death, pretty much killed all but the 3 beefy guys in 2 turns
The combat is really hard in this place if you're not prepared. My party consists of 2 clerics (shadowheart and me) and 2 fighters (Karlarch and Laezael) with teleportation item. Each time they try to use Darkness spell I just teleport Karlach and Laezael to deal with the spell casters. I also found that using shadowheart solely as healer is the best strategy, just use Sanctuary spell on her so she won't be attacked, and continuously heal your party.
I like that sanctuary/heal combo plan. It can be a hard fight without planning. Thank you for your comment!!
It's obvious that you will have a fight there, so i naturally left my companions behind. Then SH cast plague on the stairs and stupid bots suicided in it. Tactician btw.
Yeha tactician mode everyone has bonechill which stops all healing
if you have the eldritch blast and use stealth to get close you can blast viconia when shes juuuust within range. this will deal damage and also knock her out of range of combat and she wont see you or attack back. I did this until I killed her on my second playthrough, none of the ads aggroed until after i rescued shadow hearts parents even after killing the boss.
Interesting! I would have to play with that exact range. Thank you for commenting!!
I found shadowhearts childhood hideout, put the party there. Had a character with high movement and misty step initiate combat then lead them back to the natural chokepoint at the wooden ladder. Used air myrmidon for the raging vortex and evards tentacles to whittle them all down. Fish in a barrel.
Oh wow!! This is the first comment I've seen about that spot! Well done!! Thank you!!
I like how there's several ways to pronounce "cadre" and the voice actor didn't hit any of them.
So sad they made Viconia (the best BG1 and 2 companion) so antagonist and not a companion, also she is still a young drow, so why they made her look like she is an ugly grandmom :(
I don’t disagree with you, but perhaps there is cut content? Shar is a jealous god. Stay tuned for more Viconia lore! Thank you for commenting!!
I dealt with this battle with outrageous amounts of AoE, specially wall of fire. If you have Gale as an Evocation wizard it gets even better because his spells will not hit you and the sharrians will clump up on top of you. Have your tank talk to Viconia while leaving the other 3 behind. While 4 guys will try to flank you, i have the experience that using summons to distract them is best, while we try to kill the ones that clump on your tank because they will be weakened by the AoE
A wonderful tactic (i especially liked the evocation Gale part)! Sounds like you baited them into party versus letting them bottleneck you in. Thank you for commenting!
@@LegionGrey Yes, bringing them to me was a tactic on the comp I had at the time. The other comp I faced them with had a run-around Karlach quickly finishing the casters, I paladin-warlock durge to tank everything, 1 Shart to kind of tank but heal and buff the team and 1 assassin astarion to kill someone each turn then turn invisible due to durge cape. Very different approach, but a solid one nonetheless. Karlach was an eagle barbarian, so all opp attacks vs her had disadvantage, freeing her mobility. The tanks were doing their jobs holding concentration and not taking damage/forcing duels (I even managed a Dominate Beast on shapeshifted Viconia with shart lol). It took more time to finish the battle, but it was a very hard comp to put down with what the sharrians had
@@Jewels___ WOW! i’m exhausted just thinking about all that! Great job!
For the 4 that flank you, I went in as a Gloomstalker main, hasted, and gave each of them a pair of Smokepowder Arrows. Then mopped up their remaining health with Dread Ambish, and a bevy if bonus action arrows because dual wielding hand bows is AWESOME
My first go around, this fight was the hardest in the whole game, but so satisfying to complete because Shadowheart is my favorite character, always romanced, and I love seeing her quest to fruition.
The second go around? We wiped the floor with them, and I got a unique interaction between Viconia and Shadow that I missed my first time.
"Let it go, mother...Embrace loss."
I was like "yeah, my girl."
Well done! No better trainer than experience!
If you have a strong party the fight is really not that bad:
1) globe of invulnerability is absurdly OP, if you have a wizard or sorc cast it and you did a decent job on stats they should have high initiative and you can open with it and setup the next 3 rounds, this is absurdly OP already.
2) Black hole + the stun partial ilithid spell, you can use black hole to cluster and suck enemies out of the protection area when they get in (if you opened with 1), then use the AOE stun to setup a nuke round. The slow alone does a number on them anyway, the stun is just a cherry on top.
3) water + chain lightning AOE, esp from a sorc that can twin it will deal absurd damage, you can have 4 casts of it : 1 from slot, 1 from OP staff (kerska's favor and choose lighting), 1 from partial illithid power that gives a free cast, 1 from arcane battery. A sorc with haste and twin spell can cast it 3 times, 2 of them twined -- so 5 in total, on wet enemies, that alone will be about 300-600 damage.
4) smoke powder bombs
5) monk with resonate explosion and the cull the weak deals very good aoe with proper gear.
6)ranged/or warlock blaster can do some insane single target with a decent spec/items
In act 3, you have access to so many absurdly OP items, you should have 1-2 DPS that can burst 3-400 damage in a round with haste and elixirs. If you lack the dps, you should have a lot of CC, if you have neither, you should reconsider your build :)
The most annoying part of the viconia fight is the darkness spells, but if you open properly you can burst most of the casters down, have sunlight on one of your other companions to dispel it if needed.
Generally, if you have really good burst just nuke the boss, if you have good aoe nuke the adds. On harder fights, use globe and setup haste and all that first round, then nuke everyone on the next. For BG3 and most turn based RPGs, most fights are won on paper based on your build and party comp.
WOW!! Thank you for the highly detailed reply! I appreciate the time and effort you made to mention all these things. I do believe that part of the reason why this encounter is so late is so the player is more familiar with strategy and options by this point. Thank you for your contribution!!
Viconia should be much more attractive! In a Drow lifespan she's in her mid to late 30's. For all of us who played BG1 and BG2 it would be nice to be able to recruit her.
I don’t disagree. I have thrown around the idea that she is perhaps a doppelgänger as it’s a common trope BG does to explain away something out of place. Thank you for your comments!
I beat this encounter first try with a pretty sub-optimal group and no preparation of any kind on tactician mode. I wrote how I did it below. It was the biggest numbers fight I had had in a while, so of COURSE it had to happen JUST as I had removed Gale from the party. My party was myself (paladin) with Halberd of Vigilance, Karlach (berserker with Nyrulna, Shadowheart, and Jaheira (Circle of the land druid). Sadly Gale also was carrying most of my scrolls, so I really had to figure something out with pretty limited spells.
Initially I wanted to kite the room back to a chokepoint and blast away with every AOE scroll I had but the distance seemed too far and the fight started with no prior preparation on my part - so I castled up on the spot. Here's how I won:
1. I cast an invulnerability field on my party and threw a haste spore grenade on the party to start off
2. Walled a large portion of one side of the approach off with fire wall, catching as many NPCs as I could in the line of the initial casting
3. I repeatedly either cast Gust of Wind or Zephyr Break to remove the dense clouds
4. I used Shadowheart's "Bless" concentration initially to help land hits so I could kill primary targets early (like Viconia) and swapped to Spirit Guardians once all the npc's in the room dogpiled me.
5. I used a Void Bulb to cluster npc's up more and drag some back into the fire
6. i used every AOE thing I had at my disposal. I had one chain lightning scroll and just kept chucking Nyrulna over and over again which is a great AOE nuke, using Jaheira to cast spells and stab at low health NPC's.
7. I did have an issue with NPC's getting into the invuln field and I did try to push them out in various ways when I could, but if they entered the field I immediately deprioritized them and went for the ones outside the field. It all worked out very well and I finished the fight with minimal damage on just one casting of Invulnerability globe.
Thank you for the incredible detail! I appreciate you sharing your tactics! Hope you have a great weekend!
I fight but I don’t even engage in dialogue. I make gale invisible and sneak to one of the flanks and cask a couple of ice storms (2nd after taking speed potion) and surprise the room. You get a good jump on everyone.
Indeed. Getting the advantage is extremely helpful. It is rare for me to start any combat at a disadvantage, but if you never have to start that way knowing you WILL fight then that does seem optimal. Thank you for commenting!
I did this after shadowheart left my party for not bringing her to the nightsong and I did not have any option for her being dead or gone. I said i'd surrender her and jaheira did not like that even though jaheira never met shadowheart lol
Interesting! The Harpers are definitely at odds against Shar so some of that made sense. Thanks for the information!!
I used three wizards and a fighter/barbarian, all with the alert perk, to slaughter the Shar worshipers. After the dialog, I kept the party at top of the stairs and rained cold spells on the stairs. I was only hit twice in the entire battle while playing on balanced mode.
N(ice)ly done! The back of the room is a great bottleneck that can be exploited! Great job! Thank you for commenting!!
I didn't need her as an ally at the end so I just had Tav walk past invisible and go lockpick and open the door. Then bring shadowheart up invisible when the door is unlocked and send the rest back to camp (to save invis potions). Then she can resolve her quest either way without having to do the large battle.
Very true! I felt compelled to speak to Viconia though. Once you have done the play through a few times then the optional dialogues aren't required, but I'm glad to hear how you experimented! Thank you for commenting!
I summoned Scratch outside the room, ungrouped him and sent him in solo to talk to Viconia, selected Attack dialogue. For some reason this glitches the battle so that no one aggros. Scratch is free to leave. Then rest of party can go invisible and do the lockpick as per your vid. Or stack smokepowder barrels around Viconia and one-shot her. This also works with Shovel.
Thank you for your comment! Scratch! That's great! Yes i can see how that could (did) glitch the encounter! Imagine a dog infiltrating the Shar guild headquarters in the area! Thank you for that! Amazing!
@@LegionGrey The cutscene is pretty hilarious. For some reason the camera focuses on Scratch's feet when Viconia is reading his mind. For the rest he just wags his tail at her.
@@PapaCharlie9 i may need to record that. that’s amazing
I brought my buddy the Spectator to this fight and he was very helpful removing the Sharrans.
Indeed! Well done! Thank you for commenting! I hope you have been enjoying the game!
I was quite fond of Viconia in BG2. I am glad I have a way to avoid killing her.
Well done! Thank you for commenting!
I wouldn't miss the opportunity to kill each and everyone of those zealots of Shar, more kills=more exp and more fun.
Thank you for your comments! XP is great but keep in mind that Larian has a built in system to reward via xp and other things for non combat solutions. Ultimately there are reasons why some may choose Shar as their deity… I plan to explore some of these in future videos! Once again, thank you for your contribution and glad to hear you are enjoying the game!
I hate how they butchered one of my favorite BG2 characters here. I know they made Viconia align with the Wizards of the Coast canon - but I absolutely hate hat they made her a boring simplified villian. She was a much more complex character in BG2.
I don't disagree with you. I plan on presenting a video that goes over much of this. I have suspicions that her story may have been more involved, but also may have been part of the cut content they have previously addressed. Thank you for your comment!!
Fast and ez way of winning this fight: Elixir of vigilance on mage. Cast flame wall, cast black hole pull viconia inside the flames. She kinda bugs out and just stands there dying, doesnt even cast her stupid things.
Great tactic! Thank you for your comment!
Noooo, I can't let Vicky live, I want that sweet mace for dumped str on the cleric and the shield too!
Valid reason lol! Thank you for commenting! I am a big Viconia fan so... I had to look for options.
PIckpocket! Although i wonder if you do non lethal damage to her and long rest if she will forget you are enemies like some npcs and still help you?
Hide the entire group upstairs, get few summons and AOE spells (like "Cloud kill"), go to speak with Viconia with 1-2 characters, initiate combat and Dimension door back to group. Now enemy has to attack your group on high-ground through narrow stairway filled with death clouds, daggers, grease etc.
Or use dwarf warfare tactics: bring as many crates and sturdy chests as you can, build a labyrinth with them and see enemies spending their turns on jumps, misty steps and dashing through death cloud and your summons, while you hiding or shooting at them from above. At patch 3 Viconia can't die and will be knocked-out automatically (or you can activate this option to ensure she's alive) and this way you'll get the post-fight dialogs and ability to spare her life.
Indeed! Using the hallway to bottleneck the issue is a great tactic! Lots of ways to approach the combat. Glad to see you experimenting! Thank you for your comments!!
Mine glitched out and viconia died because I had her under hold person. It said she had HP remaining but also said "dead"
What does AOE mean?
I have that cloud kill spell but I don’t know what AOE means
Area of Effect. It is a a damage or controlling effect over a wide and/or large area. ;)
@@LegionGrey oh right 😂 I've accidentally injured my team before not realizing how big the damage area would be
any combat can be dealt with for the low low cost of sacrificing 1 weird elephant
That's hilarious! Thank you for adding that lol! Have a great day!
Very impressive!
Thank you! Cheers! I appreciate your comment! Have a great day!
me and my friend found smokepowder barrels and fire barrels, i went in and talked alone to viconia, after she sent me to retrieve shadowheart we surrounded her with explosive barrels and smokepowder bombs, we then struck the barrels with a fireball, killed viconia and the room was not hostile.
Well done! Yes. If Viconia is killed fast enough the room seems to have a veil lifted from them. Great work! Thank you for commenting!!
I solved this in Tactician with explosions and...well tactics. Give Karl 2 oil barrels, 3 alchemist fire, 6 - 7 smokepowder bombs, and some explosive jelly. Give Gale the blind immunity ring.
Ungroup Shadowheart. Have her start the conversation alone.
Go into character selection during the dialogue. Karl places the barrels on either side of Viconia, and places the smaller items on top of the barrels. Tav (Crit Warlock w/ devil's sight) gets right next to Shadowheart. Gale runs to the stairs on the left, past Viconia, with the opulent chest at the top and chucks a 4th level fireball to ignite the payload from the top of the stairs. Viconia nuked on turn 1.
To survive the rest, you need to screw up the action economy and restrict the Sharrans' movement. Karl books ass to the stairs in front of Gale, Tav dimension doors Shadowheart to the top of the stairs where Gale is. Now half of the enemies need to waste an action or two on dash get within striking distance _and_ they're funnelling into one of two choke points.
Get Gale and Shadowheart in in the corner for sniping, healing, and concentration spells. Tav and Karl do crowd control (i.e. Tav scares the shit out of the Sharrans while Karl hits 'em with a big hammer).
Helpful spells: Wall of fire (cut off choke points), Dimension Door/Misty Step (if they break your line, you need to get far away, fast), Spirit Guardians (hilariously effective when she stands close to the edge of a WOF choke point), Hold Person (great combo with Mortal Reminder build, helps crowd control).
Thank you for the detailed breakdown! This particular battle is very open and can be cheesed, but it definitely reminds me of the classic battles in BG1 and 2.
I did the conversation then grouped my party up in the centre of the stairs where the two pairs of guards can flank you. Had already summoned a planar ally: Djinn and had him cast Sweetplum gales on the stairs leading to Viconia. It restrains anyone who attempts to cross it, so when the enemies took their turn, they all pretty much got stunned by the stairs in one massive clump. Then I AOEd them down with fireballs and spirit guardian
Excellent strategy! Yes. The hallway stairwell can be a kill zone. Thank you very much for contributing!!
@@LegionGrey Comment's much appreciated mate 👍
I really wish we could recruit her as a companion. If it requires me to betray Shadowheart for her, so be it.
Thank you for the comment! I just released a Viconia lore video so I completely agree with your point of view. There should be a way (lore related) to keep SH as a loyal Sharite and new matron mother releasing Viconia from her duties and bringing her into our party. If Larian wants me for consultation... lol
@@LegionGrey Yeah, I always thought it was weird that Viconia doesn't die in the fight like literally every other boss in the game and you have to actually chose to kill her afterwards. If you choose to spare her life, Shadowheart as Shar's right hand should be able to make Viconia swear fealty to her.
@@MistyKathrine correct. Shar can be fickle, and does not care about any of her servants at the end of the day. So... as long as Viconia swears to not usurp SH or disturb the new Shar order (lol) then it IS possible that Shar could release Viconia and allow her to retain her cleric abilities. There are many paths the lore could go. Thank you for sharing your insight about the subject!
I skipped Viconia with barrels from Volo saving :) it was unexpected but if you oneshot her other sharrans do not attack you.
I’ve heard of that and glad you confirmed it! Thanks for the tip and thanks for your comment!
I loved this fight.
Played as an ice wiz/sor build.
Froze them to death. Good times.
Very interesting! A freeze build is definitely something i never considered. Well done! Thank you for commenting!!
- leave your party at the top of the stairs, sending your face forward for the conversation
- when combat starts high tail it up the stairs with your face.
- put a wall of fire at the base of the stairs
- let everyone run through the wall of fire and bunch up on the stairs.
- drop cloud kill or another powerful AOE
after that the fight becomes pretty trivial.
definitely! isolating the room is very doable. manipulating party members during a conversation is rarely used but can be done before conversation is over so as to prepare your position in an inevitable encounter. thank you for commenting!!!
Wall of fire + hunger of hadar + wall of blades (or whatever its called) is insane combo to toss into any choke point lol
@@_Aarius_ indeed! thank you for your comment! bottlenecks are ready made tactical goodness
Is there anything that can't be solved with Cloudkill?
Hadar is great here. Unfortunately they can see through the darkness, but it's difficult terrain and damage. Plant growth is also awesome, that movement penalty is brutal.
Me in every playthrough - "Well! Here I go killin' again! I just love killin'!"
I do think that that is the common reaction to many encounters. I like to try to find alternate solutions just in case they pay off. Thank you for commenting!
Не прощу Larian, то, что они сделали с Виконией, она всегда была сама за себя, и никогда не была фанатичной Шариткой, Шаритка помогала защитить Калимпорт от последователей Горгота? Шаритка помогла Высшим эльфам и была принята королевой, при том что она drow? Викония прошла сложный путь с дитем Баала, и уже ей не требовалось забвение, Викония потеряла все, обрекла на себя гнев Ллос, за то, что отказалась принести в жертву ребенка, что мы видим в BG3? Викония годами мучает Шедоухарт, только потому что, так захотела богиня, полный вздор.😮
Thank you for the comments!! I will say though… she is very grateful to Shar. Her devotion to Shar was never on the level of zealotry in bg1-2, however, her gratitude to Shar is evident and could manifest over time. Again, thank you!!
I don't get the option to say she is dead at all :(
I don't get that option either. I've left Shadowheart back in camp. I've ungrouped her from the party. I've left her outside the House of Grief. It tricks the girl on reception if I have left SH back at camp, but it doesn't trick Viconia, who won't let me in until I bring Shadowheart to her. I don't get the option to say she is dead. I'm guessing they've removed the option during a patch or I have to kill SH in some way that I can later revive her. But so far I haven't found a way to do it.
I created a hireling cleric to cast Feign Death on SH. The spell was cast successfully. SH remained inactive and ungrouped outside the house; but as soon as my TAV sat on the bench to talk to Viconia, the cutscene showed SH in the room with my party and the dialogue options behaved as if SH was alive and inside the house. So.... that didn't work.
I also tried to use Scratch to interact with the receptionist and sit on the bench; but neither interactions were possible and so I had to abandon that possibility.
(My goal is to have Viconia as an ally for the final battle, but also keep Shadowheart in my party; and of course to allow SH to find her parents).
I found if you kill her with aoe before talking nobody agros which is kind of nice and peaceful. They even have comments about their leader gone. Haven't seen path that's meant for tbh
True! It may be one of those subjects that Larian removed prior to launch. It makes sense that if you don’t have SH turn away from Shar that that becomes an option. Thank you for commenting!
Or just have one person (just not Shadowheart) talk to her, switch characters, and blast her with fireballs. The rest will be passive and mourn her while you take the black diamond and lockpick the door in peace haha
Agreed, this is likely the simplest of methods. I don't think that is necessarily how Larian intended, but did account for. Switching characters isn't something you see very often (everyone gets caught up in the cinematics). Thank you for your comment!
I think that is just an exploit of the design bug that the dialog doesn't stop even if you start fighting. Of course you can come over it this way, but I prefer the way by playing.
I'm not through it yet. I tried Globe of Invulnerability which started nicely but then they overwhelmed me with Darkness spells so that I couldn't deal damage outside. I think there are some "bugs" in the game also: I casted Daylight but that just dispelled one Darkness. Next Darkness negated the Daylight again which shouldn't be the case (in my opinion and in D&D 5Es).
I like the idea of not going in with Shadowheart. That's what was my next idea also.
The encounter is insanely hard. I don't know what Larian had in mind with such stuff. There are many encounters which are more than deadly (e.g. the Vampire fight if you don't accept losing Astarion) - if you don't cheat.
Thank you for the comment, but you can direct your other party members around during conversation. There is a character selection in lower left (on PC). Moving your characters around when another character is mid conversation is just another tactical option you can use in game. The very long hallway leading to the chamber is often used as an exploit to bottleneck the fight in you favor and if Larian really wanted to make it insanely hard then the hallways would be filled with guards and/or the followers at the entrance of the House of Pain would come in to investigate and cause issues from behind. I'm glad to hear you are enjoying your play through!@@Jalella42
Barrelmancy as always. Go by yourself snf mine the whole area. That's how I cheese raphaels lair too.
Barrels are definitely effective! Thank you for commenting!!
i simply have my monk chug haste potion when it goes bad/bloodlust elixer and murder the people who cast darkness
lol nice! Monk is rarely played. Well done! Thank you!
@@LegionGrey yeah it is a really hard fight but for some reason having shadowheart cast sanctuary on herself a turn or 2 in seems to make it much easier
this is an easy fight... keep everyone at the top of the stairs and attack the closest guard cast locust swarm and firewall in the chokepoint and watch them run into it like moths to a flame.
The hallway is definitely a ready made choke point. Thank you for your comment!!
Really don't get why they made her look so old, yet sound young. She's an elf. Sounds barely have aged since the bhaalspawn saga.
Her look in this game can never compare to our minds eye from the og BG games. I don’t disagree with you though. Stay tuned for more future character/game deep dives! Thank you for your comment!
My friend plays Viconia!
Viconia is my favorite companion in original series! They VA for them in BG3?!! Thank you for commenting! I need details lol!
my earth elemental just killed viconia without any reaction( best dialogue ever just send your elemental alone)
LOL that’s hilarious! Send in the earth elemental tactic. Love it! Thanks for commenting!
I tried to do this, but she wouldn't let go of Shadowheart. Next playthrough I might try going alone like this.
I play a ton of rpg’s unconventionally so it was a nice surprise to see this option. Thank you for your comment! I hope you are enjoying the game!
Soooo you miss out on a really cool weapon, robe and the vault key along with a super cool fight. I guess it's a way to do it but this is probably the worst way to do so.
I am currently working on a longer lore video to explain this point a view a bit more. If you are familiar with the original series then some of these choices are not necessarily good or bad. The point of view of the player can vary based on the history of the NPC’s involved. Thank you for your comment!! However, I respectfully disagree that this is the worst possible outcome.
damn they really aged Viconia, elves are not supposed to show their age till near the end of their lifespan. Her old artwork from bg was based of a adult star if you wonder why her original artwork she was so good looking.
That isn't incorrect at all, however, we may not have all the information related to the events between BG2 ToB and BG3, but if it is as linear as it is presented then, yes, there is a discrepancy with the portrayal of Viconia. Stay tuned for a future video where I'll try to tackle some of these issues. Thank you for your comments!!
Возраст Виконии примерно равен Минтаре) и да, Викония должна быть весьма красивой, а не тёткой преклонных лет...
In my recent playthrough, I stumbled upon another strategy to kill Lady Viconia without making the others aggro on us. Apparently the throw item distance is so huge, you can sort of off screen her from the entrance of the sanctum. She just dies and the rest go about their business. You can even loot her corpse completely and no-one complains. I did this by throwing Nirulna from the sanctum entrance. Let me know if this worked for anyone else.
Hmm. Interesting! Yes, Nirulina can hit with a crit for thunder damage. I would not have thought that it would be powerful enough to do enough damage, but it is before her buffs and things. Excellent use of experimentation! Thank you for your comment!!!
I found a spot about half way down the steps where I could hide with my archer and pepper her with arrows. Her minions don't react and you can loot her shield and stroll to the back room.
Huh. A bit of tactical lying and stealth and you can keep Shadowheart AND have the Sharrans' help in the final fight. It's actually pretty cool that you can get away with this.
To be clear you can’t perform both. I mentioned in video that if you continue to stealth into the parents’ room that that will code game as your party as hostile upon sight. It is, however, a method to not have to fight anyone and still end up with an unusual ally at the end. Thank you for your comment!
@@LegionGrey Happy to help. I'm just impressed by how much game is in this game.
no kill no loot, but still good job for finding this
No loot is a valid issue! Good or bad they brought Viconia back so I immediately looked for alternative solutions. Thank you for your comment!
I just brute forced it? I saw Viconia had Sanctuary up and I said "Hmm. Some AOE will get around Sanctuary I wonder if Moonbeam will.
It does.
Viconoa... dint move. Dint attack. Didn't GET OUT OF THE COLUMN OF DEATH LIGHT. and in three or four rounds just slowly withered into a raisin. And then died. And after combat, Moonbeam struck again before I could break the spell.
In the words of the game: "The corpse is too badly mangled to speak."
So don't pass off Shadowheart
Well done! Great use of observation! Thank you for the comments!
i did the same, but instead of lockpicking the gate, i killed her from the shadows, no one noticed it was me
very good! Yes it is possible to agree, gain het trust, then betray her instantly. I’ve kinda felt she should perhaps have more armor and be immune to backstab but… Thank you for commenting!!
Lock her in conversation with a party member and then just kill her from range with spells.
Valid tactical method! I do think Larian intended to let the conversation play out but if it’s known that a skirmish will happen then that’s a solid way to go. Thank you!!
@@LegionGrey yesh I let it play out the first time and then reloaded a save prior. I still wanted to know what happened. lol
I just switched to Gale and fireball’d her to death while she was stuck in conversation
lol that’s definitely an option! Thank you for commenting!!
My old Bg2 game I ran away with her, then Loth assassinated her. This one got some miles on her.
It’s awesome to hear about your Viconia memories. Stay tuned for future lore vids about BG characters. Thank you for your comment!
They really aged my girl like milk and gave Jaheira the wine treatment.
The fight isn't hard. Keep one person high to kill the top 4. Bring that person around to flank. A caster in the middle can blow up the other side. Stay mobile to avoid darkness. Punk Vicki with a fighter.
Avoiding darkness is key. Good call! The fight can be managed, but there are several who are new to the turn based strategy and this video was also trying to show a non combat solution just in case anyone wanted to see other options. Thank you for your comment!! I appreciate your detailed analysis of the tactics you employed!
I think it is a bug. According to game script the option she is dead is should be available literally when Shadowheart is dead.
It could be but the narrative isn’t written as an impossibility either. Lying happens… especially in D&D and the circumstances behind the Sharrites not reacting to a quick Viconia death implies that there is something impeding everyone’s ability to assess the situation. Larian had stated there is a significant amount of cut content and perhaps it led to some inconsistencies or there could be revelations in updates to come. Thank you for your comments!!
@@LegionGrey I also expected to have option to deceive/convince Viconia. But reactivity is limited in a lot of quests in act 3.
After she wants SH's surrender, 4th dialog option that says she is dead doesn't appear in my game. Well yeah she is alive so i reckon this video only applies if SH is dead in your run
Thank you for the information. I don't think they hotfixed it as it's appears to be method to deceive. However, she was definitely not dead in my attempt or recreations. I just left SH outside of dialogue range. Thank you for the comment!!
The fight was not so hard to kill everyone.
Good job! Thank you for commenting!!
AHHH! the fuck did they do with Virconia?! They made her...OLD! NOOOOOOOO!
I made an almost 2 hour video in honor of Vicki. Check it out. I address the age issue briefly. Thank you for commenting! th-cam.com/video/I-Tm-zAeqkk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KIVySm_Xc7j_6gdf
Viconia use to be a tig old bitty dark elf mommy, what happened to her!!
Howdy! Thank you for commenting! Yes, we all have our positions when it comes to Viconia. Nothing can replace the imagination though. Stay tuned for more Viconia videos! ;)
They did Viconia dirty in this game.
it’s a common comment lol. Thank you for your comment!
I had Viconia talk to shadowheart and then smacjed her ito death with karlach lol. the cuktists wont even attack when she dies
Indded! Yes a lot of players have not unlocked movement outside of conversations. Well done! Thank you for commenting!
Hey, what armor is your character wearing in this scene? Looks really cool! Thanks for the video!
Elven Chain! I think i dyed it a black (I cannot remember). Thank you for the comment! I am eyes deep in a new video! Stay tuned!!
Viconia DeVir is treated so f***ing bad in this game
I have officially addressed this in the video i published today! thank you for the comment!!
From a pure story standpoint I like the retribution in killing viconia, and half the temple. Gotta let that bish get it for kidnapping Bae's parents 😂
I can appreciate that point of view, but stay tuned to the channel as I plan on going over how and why some characters do some things. Thank you for your comment!
I don't because I put all that effort in BG2/ToB to turn her neutral only for her to turn evil again.
the pull of Shar is great. We have to remember why she was drawn to Shar to begin with.
@@LegionGrey Pretty sure she was physically drawn to shar by cultists.
So you can just lie Shadowheart is dead, convince Viconia to join you, and complete Shadowheart's questline?
it appears so. i don’t believe it’s intended as a tactical method but included in the event that SH is actually deceased. however, role play options are always great. thank you for commenting!!
I stood in the tiny spot on the stairs between cone of vision of shar followers (just before dialogue triggers) and sniped Viconia with Shadowheart, she took 3 guiding bolts, died, room started talking about her death and SH being the new leader.... opened the door normal way, finished SH quest and as I was walking back whole room turned hostile.
idk if it's a bug or intended but might be a way to avoid some combat or make it easier
that’s amazing!!! i think the trigger is going into back room and triggering the back guard. maybe they will do something with that in future. thank you for telling me about your technique! i love hearing about inventive methods of gameplay. have a great day!
i guess I'm that guy... but dang did they make viconia ugly in this game...
Let me just say... Viconia DeVir is my FAVORITE companion in original BG series and I do not disagree with you, but I'm sure Larian has some reasons to depart from some known female Drow qualities (extra height, strength, musculature), but I am just happy to see her again. Thank you for commenting! I really appreciate your feedback!
@LegionGrey she's my favorite too. I just remember her as the fairly high charms priest so it stuck out to me. 14 meant even more back in those days than in 5e. Not to mention she's still young for an elf. Even if it's 120 years later.
@Quandry1 not untrue!
Drow can live 900 or more years easily. She was in he 90's in BG2, so about 210 years old above. She's still in her twenties in human years. She not only looks nothing like her BG self, but looks a lot older than she should as well.
Then they do this to her character. There are a lot of things I didn't like in this game.
I mean, yes but fireball.
Big boom!! Thank you for reminding me!! lol
SPOILER: I went down with shadowheart in the team. during dialogue, i selected a different character out of conversation and pre-empted a one-shot kill on Viconia. Interestingly the rest of the people in the dungeon did not attack but rather had some interesting dialogue regarding their former leader. I felt a bit bugged and cheesy. In any case this prompted me to think there is another way. you found one way, but i wonder if there is a way to ostrasize her from the rest of the group.
Very good! Moving companions around while carrying a conversation is a rarely used strategy. The fact that Viconia is not missed or mourned is an interesting event. Thank you for commenting!!
@@LegionGrey the conversation was like, "I can't believe she has us deceived" or something to the like of them questioning their Shar devotion. You should try it yourself a see. It's a while and I don't remember the details. It would be awesome if Nightsong was there too...
I am actually aware of it. The scene plays as if the disciples are under a geas, but it isn’t specific. There could be more to this story as the consistent original BG players insist on is that Viconia isn’t themselves… so that begs the question… what is going on?
Why was this fight hard? Shadowheart in my playthrough (evil delf durge) killed the nightsong and was sent here.. all the justicar's sided with Shadowheart and one shot the archers and mages. Shadow blinded vicona (and everyone nearby) which slowed things down but kept shadow over 50% hp, then it was like a 12v1
It can be difficult based on how Larian intended, but you definitely can mitigate some issues depending on story and build. the Sharrites are prone to radiant damage except for Viconia, but… she too can take some damage. Thank you for your comment!
I won this battle easly, selecting Shadowheart as main character, following her quest without any doubt on my goddess and becaming the herald of Shar, winning every gauntlet trial, getting the spear and killing the nightsong. Almost every soldier in that hall turned on my side, we were about 14 vs 6 characters.
A very nice way to do this that is rarely unlocked! Well done! Thank you for commenting!!
I'm so confused, I never saw this lady.
That's ok. It is through the Shadowheart quest line. Nothing can be done first time through. Enjoy replays! Thank you for your comment!
Your Viconia looks slightly different in the face than the one I encountered on PS5. Weird.
That's interesting. I wonder if any updates resulted in graphical changes. There's nothing in the notes. Thank you for noticing and commenting!!
I crushed them with superior strategy
Well done! Thank you for commenting! I originally made the video to show how you can get the SH story, back room items, and also recruit Viconia and her army for the future battle. Once again, thank you!
upvote for the Deftones reference
Thank you! I appreciate it! Writing scripts can keep me on needles and pins.
@@LegionGrey :D
.... hmmmmm for me always easiest way to deal with the fight was just to win it.
Thank you for commenting!! Yes, the conventional method is to fight, but as a Viconia admirer in previous titles I wanted to search out alternative methods.
@@LegionGrey Yes it's is really disappointing and disheartening that the person I always spent two games turning away from evil bit by bit to ultimately succeeds. ( to a point ) Becomes plus minus antagonist in this game. Plus they even made her look much worse than her picture in original games. I just made myself a head cannon that this Viconia is just an impersonator and real Viconia is some place else. I know it sounds stupid, but it eases my disappointment. TBH I am hoping for a mod that could tackle Viconia issue.
I just made a chokepoint in the stairs and wall of fire the shit out of everyone. Fun times.
Excellent point. It is a ready made kill zone. The conversation option is there mainly to avoid the combat and get option otherwise unknown to most playthroughs. Thank you for commenting!!