The Uchiha's opposite "version" of the Will of Fire is called, rather appropriately, the Curse of Hatred. The same hatred Indra felt for his brother when Hagoromo picked Asura over him. The same hatred Madara felt for Hashirama when he picked Tobirama over him to be the next Hokage. And yes, the same hatred Sasuke felt for Naruto when Naruto did what he could not. All Uchiha inherit the Curse of Hatred just as all Senju inherit the Will of Fire. Well, almost all. Neither Itachi nor his father nor Shisui ever felt this curse. They all openly rejected it in favor of the Will of Fire. Which is why Sasuke's father did not want the coup to be bloody even when he felt it was necessary, and why both Itachi and Shisui saw the suppression of this coup as necessary. And when Sasuke chose to side with Naruto over Madara, he rejected that curse once and for all, and with Madara and Obito's death, so died the last of the Uchiha to inherit the curse. Sarada was born with the Will of Fire deeply instilled into her. This decision on the part of Sasuke symbolises Indra's ultimate redemption for betraying Hagoromo's path.
The will of fire had its own problems(DOnt want to get into it but I can if u reply) to and Sarada was born with the Will of Fire the same way Madara and Obito and Sasuke were born it was their experiences that changed them. The curse of Hatred is that you can't get the Sharing and even better the Mangekyo without feeling true hate and get lost in it.(Although Itachi,Shisui,Fugaku to some extent and later Sasuke Obito overcame that hate) Also about Indra and Ashura I take it as this: Ashura was bestowed by both Indra and Ashuras power as in he had power through cooperation and the Sage bestowed all the power onto him(This did not work). Madara had both Indra and Ashuras power by having senju cells in him and by uniting the world under one banner(cooperation) to survive a big threat but by also ruling alone(This did not work). When either path has too much power balance can not be achieved and so the conflict continues. The sage shared equal power between Sasuke and Naruto and they were able to reach a compromise Sasuke through the darkness and alone and Naruto through the light and cooperation only when these two forces act together and through balance can they achieve peace so Hagoromos Path was not correct or Ashuras it was both in conjunction
@GLM exactly, I've been arguing that for as long as I can remember but ppl act like the "will of fire" doesn't have its own set of problems. Heck, they'll even go as far as justifying Itachi's gen0cide, disgusting to say the least!
Will of fire ideology cause more darkness just like madara said. The darkness that konoha had third hokage, danzo, two elder ,itachi a blind dog of evil konoha. For these people it is not people that live in konoha that makes konoha but the high level of konoha that why white fang had to die as he could become a high level that hokage due to him being a war hero a power full stronger than third hokage students. All hokage have connection to each other. A person can only become hokage through connection. Itachi followed the corrupted evil people to become evil a servant of will of fire. Hashirama wanted peace it didn't happen, children were sent to war . War become form far between clan to village. A person who cannot understand darkness of shinobi system or questions it can never change that world. What I like about sasuke is that he questions the evil system of village, damiyo and will of fire even though he in the end is brainwashed to become the dog of konoha by naruto six path brainwashing jutsu. Peace was never achieved. Grand unification was the only way to achieve peace and to kill all kage ,damiyo, high level elder of each village and all Nobel and remove old government unification of the world is necessary as why should a world having same language, culture, power be devided.
An interesting Orochimaru line: That one reason he and Sasuke were left alive is because someday there will people who can’t be changed by Naruto’s philosophy.
To me, Kaguya serves as the culmination of Indra's philosophy of using chakra to increase one's own strength rather than using it to understand one another. By eating the fruit of the god tree, she used it's chakra in order to stop all wars, and finally bring about peace. However, some people began to fear her power, with some even revering her as a demon, and as a result she became paranoid of people trying to steal her chakra. She also feared the rest of the Otsutsuki clan, as she feared that they would have stolen her chakra if they were to find her. This fear was only amplified when her two children inherited her chakra, and as a result, she became so paranoid she cast the infinite tsukuyomi to build an army of White Zetsu and merged with the god tree in order to reclaim what she believed was hers. By not sharing her chakra, she was only capable of trusting herself, and was unable to understand other people, even going as far as having to manifest her will into Black Zetsu and entrusting him with reviving her should she fail, rather than trusting anyone else to do it. If she had shared her chakra, she would have been able to quell the people's doubts about her, and would have realized that not everyone feared her. She may have potentially even been able to convince them to help her with the looming Otsutsuki threat, rather than casting the infinite tsukuyomi on them an turning them into White Zetsu. She also shows how Sasuke would have ended up had he succeeded in killing Naruto at the valley of the end. He would have become paranoid despite all the power he obtained, over not only the allied shinobi forces, but also the other Ootsusuki's that Kaguya feared, and probably would have resorted to extreme measures to ensure that he could keep his power to himself, rather than entrusting it to someone else. He even admits to Naruto he would resort to finding a way to become immortal so that he wouldn't have to share his chakra, showing that he had already started to become paranoid like Kaguya. Sorry for posting this comment again, I just really want you to see it.
I know I’m a little late but here’s my thoughts, specifically about Obito and his “sudden moment of clarity”. Obito, during the ENTIRE fight he had with Naruto was constantly arguing with him to see what makes him tick. He wanted to change Naruto into becoming a villain, thus proving his own life choices. When Naruto kept coming back at him and refusing to turn, Obito got more and more nervous and angry. The line that makes this clear is when Madara points out that Naruto seems to make Obito uneasy. The climax of there ideals was Narutos conversation with Juubito (Obito when he was the Jinchuriki of the ten tails). This is when Naruto and Obito are able to have a deep and intimate conversation about who’s right and who’s wrong, using the title of Hokage as an anchor for both to understand where the other is coming from. This led Obito to turning good. I could’ve gone into more detail but I didn’t want to make this too long
Naruto was never the underdog(as far as combat). In episode 6 its shown that he has sped up healing thanks to kurama and it is also stated in that arc that he has a higher level of chakra than most. That arc also shows BOTH NARUTO AND SASUKE struggling to climb the tree with their chakra. This shows that the class clown and the prodigy both had to work hard and train. Naruto is an outcast, not an underdog. The only reason he was underestimated by everyone in the chunin exams is because everyone in konoha just knew him as the lazy prankster. All he needed was that push that iruka and kakashi gave him to become an adequate ninja.
You even prove this when you say he struggled to climb the tree with chakra. Naruto took a very long time to become a competent ninja which is why having fast regeneration and more chakra than most doesn't mean he wasn't an underdog.
Boredfan Gerrude Sasuke also struggled with that tree so by your logic that must mean sasuke was also an underdog. Like i said in my comment, naruto only sucked at jutsu because he goofed off instead of working hard like EVERY ninja is supposed to.
Assume only took it seriously because Naruto was there making progress because of his competitive feelings. And no, Naruto struggled because he's dumb and had Kurama's chakra mixed with his which made it harder. But when he had a serious situation he proved himself a great ninja.
The reason he was a dunce in the first place is because no one wanted to be his sensei since he was a Jinchuriki. Hell, Kakashi straight up ignored Naruto to go train Sasuke, and Naruto was lucky enough to run into Jiraiya. Sasuke always had people willing to teach him and that's why he was a genius while Naruto didn't have those opportunities. Yet, let's look at the few opportunities he had. When Kakashi finally decided to train Naruto for the first time what happened? Naruto developed the Rasenshuriken, an S-class forbidden jutsu. Naruto trains with the toads for a week and becomes a better sage than Jiraiya. Sasuke in a way represented the rich kid who is able to get in a good school easily because while he has plenty of talent, he also has tons of opportunity to develop that talent originally through his father and brother and then later on with Kakashi. Naruto in a way is the representation of someone born in the ghetto or whatever you want to call being born poor. Someone can have all the latent talent in the world but because of their circumstances in life don't have the opportunity to develop- that talent.
Dude all of your videos have been amazing and out of everyone out there, who just focus on the fights and action. I feel you truly get Naruto, its characters, its world, its ideals, and it messages. Even its sequel series you nailed. You are an amazing Narutuber, Believe it
yeah people seem to only hate on the war arc cause the fights were not that great ..the point of that arc is to show how bad fighting is so why would kishi focus on great fights when he clearly wants the message of peace to shine through?..he doesn't want to glorify fighting...otherwise hes teaching kids that fighting is wonderful...it shines through better in the anime cause you know acting music movement helps convey his messages better than stand still panel pictures ever could...thats what anime is for to really hammer in the message that may be vague in the manga..fans thought he made he war arc to be some epic fight manga finale...thats their expectations fault...if you actually paid attention since the pain vs jiraya fight the show cared more about ideals messages themes narrative than actual battles...it was clear the war was going the philosophical route...and thats ok
A simple counterargument to the quote you posted from lifefailout000 is that Naruto was finding basic ideas from which to empathize with his enemies. The reason there being parallels to him in various ways is because the simple similarities are what make them able to understand each other. Gaara felt constantly alone, he had to show Gaara that he DID understand the pain of loneliness. He had to show Neji that even the most unseeming opponent can quickly become too powerful to handle. The reason there are these constant parallels and why Naruto is constantly trying to use his own experiences is because many of the enemies in the show assume that there's no possible way for someone else to know how they feel. Naruto giving his little speeches, as much as it can be argued are him imparting his will (of fire) onto his enemies, effectively serve as the dividing line between him and them; Naruto has faced many of the same pains that they have and yet never went down the same path that they did. Where they had failed to learn, he had to show them that their lives could have been entirely different if not for a decision that they had made in anger years before and stubbornly stuck to. Many of these people never considered the alternatives, and had to see that there WERE still some out there.
*Christian Gillespie* Naruto will never parallel his enemies in any meaningful way. His "empathy" falls short of significance when his pains are akin to that of an angsty teen comparatively.
Taurus Frederick His empathetic views generally have him attempt to compare his own trials and tribulations to that of other people. This wouldn’t be a bad thing if he realized that he actually lived an extremely privileged lifestyle compared to people like Gaara, Sasuke, and Neji. Naruto’s not an angsty person per se, but he appeals to his past angst in his infamous Talk no Jutsu speeches way too much. It’s always been a plot device ripe for abuse for him, always making everything about him.
@@psnfailout000 true naruto wasnt as tortured in knowing how his parents for him but for all he knew naruto parents hated him enough to leave him if you rember naruto was raising himself since he was 5 and was in love with a girl who practically abused him as a kid as well as attempted to make friends with his enemies haku and zabuza
Taurus Frederick Let’s say all of that is true (it isn’t, particularly the Sakura part). Try comparing all of that with assassination attempts (Gaara), clan genocide (Sasuke), and slavery (Neji). Add Naruto’s prophetic privileges among other shit, and the dude’s practically been living the good life. And yet Naruto pretends he can relate to these people on such a deep level. I actually have no problems with Naruto’s parallels with Haku. It offered a nice message on how shinobi aren’t tools. He didn’t even need to talk about himself when reprimanding Zabuza, iirc.
@@yamuna6154 but the themes and "deep" concepts talked about in this series goes as far back as the fight with Zabuza. Even as far back as the first chapter if you count setup.
i think my favorite part of the naruto fandom is how mad some of them get over the pairs in a series with so much going on and the fact in the manga the romance was not at focused on...in fact skipped over really...why is it people focus on that first when so much other stuff happened?...its kinda hilarious...the manga series barley focused on or cared about romance..and how mad it makes people to see how happy naruto is with someone not named sakura and they try to claim its out of character and out of pitty and due to the fans and staff that naruto lost his supposed dream girl for hinata and inside hes dead and all this nonsense when I see a fully happy grown man with his life..hes go the family he always wanted their loving and hes hokage which does put stress on him as the village is his family now too but he created a semi peace for them to live in which is just so beautiful as a message ..he doesn't have to be on guard all the time and hes beloved worldwide....what more can you want?..it turned out well for him..sometimes what we want is not the best thing for us...we don't realize it until we get what we needed and deserved
@Bouya You are just the kind of preson that hates on Naruto to look cool😂😂. People who say "then I grew up" are the biggest idiots of all time like seriously.
oh, for the commenter at 5:00, the rebuttal is simple. Whether Naruto's "talk no jutsu" is effective is not about whether Naruto perfectly empathizes with their situation. It's that he understands it well enough for the other person (Neji, Gaara, Nagato, etc) to relate with what he's saying and for them to connect despite their differences. This is *literally exactly what Jiraiya was shooting for*. Does Gaara think suddenly "oh crap, this Naruto kid's trauma is EXACTLY THE SAME AS MINE, I'd better hurry up and change my worldview!" No, lol. Like, wut? For the second point, can we not pretend that every antagonist gets converted to the "religion of Narutoism"? Just list them off, you'll see some do, some don't. Some just get brutally executed (Kakuzu), some are merely defeated and disposed of (Mizuki), some get defeated and don't actually change their worldview until influenced by later events (Neji), some straight up defeat Naruto (Deidara) or use him for some greater purpose of their own (Itachi), some literally just see him as crazy and take advantage of him (the Rock ninja girl who he lets beat him up -- remember these are "antagonists," not "villains"), some are forced to concede simply because he overpowers them and not because of anything he says (Raikage) ...... did that commenter actually watch Naruto recently or are they just going off of some faint impression from when they were younger? Oh well lol
Then the characters "connecting" with Naruto is nonsensical. Naruto has the least sad story compared to the other characters. For the most part of the series, he doesn't even know how his parents died, so his experience is just a plain orphan, he was "hated" by the people of his village, so an abused orphan. It is a sad story but definitely not on the level of other villains. He doesn't understand any of their pain, so the villain suddenly changing their views because he "relates" is irrelevant. For example, in the Obito arc, he didn't suffer as much as Obito, His parents died when he has no memory of them. And even after they died, they managed to slipped a few parts of them into the future saying to him that they died happily and that they died "trusting" him, it's a very happy "death" if you call that "death". Obito lost Rin to a war event that doesn't benefit anybody at all, a meaningless event. His only friend, his only love, he has no family as well, Kakashi is his friend for about 2 hours before he got crushed by the gigantic rock. So the only thing that he loves, Rin, got taken away from him for meaningless reason. That hits much harder. Naruto can preach about pain but if you look at it, he doesn't suffer at all. Most of his friends survived the war, and his acquaintances who died, seemingly all died for "noble" reasons, even in their dying moments, all passed to him this "will of fire" in a few cheesy last words. Seemingly in Naruto world, nobody died for meaningless cause and people's greed for power, they all died happily doing something to "protect". The plot armor factor is so obvious that it's close to being ridiculous The talk no jutsu would be fine if it makes sense, in order for it to make sense, what he talks needs to make sense, but it doesn't. One simple rebuttal to Naruto argument against Obito. Naruto: What would Rin think of you now, Obito? Obito: What she thinks wouldn't matter anymore, because she's not here. Naruto: Whatttttt? It might sound harsh but dying can just be dying, people die all the time without meaningful reason, and sometimes, things people called meaningful reasons are just ridiculous reasons. She died protecting the village? Now who is insane enough to put that idea into a kid? And why is that idea a good thing? That you must "die" to serve this higher cause that cares little for your safety? Shinobi must follow rules? But doing so, abandoning your comrade is acceptable? People choice are the result of what makes them, of what they were taught, a world that taught people like that, to Obito, is hell. Obito cared for Rin, but Rin is dead, the reason he says he shall be the savior that lead mankind out of pain is because he wants to stop all conflict now and forever more, same as Madara. That's why he cast the infinite Tsukuyomi. People who died stopping him casting that genjutsu are the same ones who killed Rin, because they're advocating for a world where human can still decide to act upon their own benefits, causing conflict and he can not accept that. If Naruto can't accept Obito vision, then fine, because Obito can not accept Naruto vision. Obito might picture himself as the Hokage, who leads people to happiness by working together, but that is a dream, it can not happen, it contradict natural law. Absolute equality can never create happiness, because there is limited resource. Peace on the surface is just cover for nasty stuff below it. Obito vision that he is the Hokage because that is what he will experience when he goes inside the Infinite Tsukuyomi, to remind himself that he can not loose control, that he must finish what he started, so that he and everybody left alive, and everybody after him can experience happiness. That is the correct philosophical answer. Not the "I want to be Hokage" nonsense, you won't want to be Hokage if everybody you care about is dead, but of course, due to Naruto plot armor, they're still alive, his friends still give him "hope", unlimited hope because they will never die. Hope is a child answer and Obito, Madara, Nagato should know that when faced with the talk no jutsu. One can only have hope if there's still something left to give him hope, if they lost everything, there is no hope. Naruto never lost anything, that's the ridiculous point.
I totally agree that the story of Naruto doesn't have to be realistic. I guess my problem, after growing up on the philosophy in Naruto of never give up, push yourself to the brink, etc that kind of thinking has created very unhealthy situations in my own life because it can create a refusal to be weak or to think realistically. Which Naruto does deal with as a series I mean lots of shinobi call Naruto out on this and he has to learn to beore mature and discerning over time, but none of that took place in 2004 when 10 year old impressionable me was watching. I think Naruto was a formative show for a lot of people who were into anime in the 2000s, so I wish at least in part 1 that it wouldn't have been so over idealistic. But, at the same time plenty of people could have interpreted this message very differently from me so I don't really know. Really good vids dude I'm so glad I found a channel that overanalyzes Naruto the way I constantly do in my daily life. 😂
On Madara, He, Kaguya, and Orochimaru represent a different path from Indra and Ashura. Sasuke/Indra represent loneliness as a method of confronting the despair caused by dealing with humanity. Kaguya, Madara, and Orochimaru have no humanity left. For Kaguya, humanity is a resource to be harvested. For Madara, humanity is a problem to be removed. For Orochimaru, Humanity is a subject to experiment with. This is different from Sasuke who even while training with Orochimaru holds on to his humanity. He is shown defeating several ninja without killing them even though he could. He holds on to his connection with Itachi once he realizes the truth. Naruto as a show never gives these characters redemption. It is suggested even in Boruto that Orochimaru simply recognizes that he cannot challenge Naruto or Sasuke and that is the sole reason he does not revert to old ways. At the end of the War arc Sasuke does not want to control or destroy humanity as a whole, simply give them a common enemy to put an end to strife.
I disagree that the "Will of Senju" ends with Sarada. It ended with Itachi. At this point, the Uchiha clan and Madara's philosophy are history, dead. Sarada is less an Uchiha and more an inheritor of the "Will of Senju": she aspires to be like Naruto (the Seventh Hokage), is a student of Konohamaru (grandson of Third, likely successor to the Seventh), and her mother inherited the secret Jutsu of the Fifth. Sasuke himself successfully cut his bond with the Uchiha clan by confronting Itachi, then Madara and Obito. By leaving Sasuke as the lone survivor, Itachi essentially exiled Sasuke from the clan and succeeded. Sasuke is an Uchiha in name alone. For all intents and purposes, once his character arch is over, Sasuke is more Senju than Uchiha. Itachi and Shisui who had "the wisdom of the Hokage" tipped the balance into the Senju camp. By eliminating the Uchiha, there is no longer the possibility for the Uchiha to overcome the Senju nepotism: they no longer exist; they lost.
Boruto and Sarada are the people that carry an after effect of both the Will of Senju and Will of the Uchiha in a rather poetic fashion, I think it's essentially turned into something else at this point a compromise a combination of both albeit both of them carry it in different ways Boruto carries in the way of wanting to Inherit the type of Shinobi Sasuke has become where as Sarada carries it as a stepping stone of the people before her entirely and thus why she wants to become Hokage.
I agree and disagree, I believe sauske is neither uchiha or senju if anything he is a byproduct of both clans ideals. A true compromise in the form of, he protects the village and the world( ashura/senju’s will) but he does it all by himself and alone with his own power(Indra/uchiha’s will).
In regards to lifefailout's comments on the flaws in naruto's story telling, One of the main ways in which empathy works is in attaching your past emotions and experiences to someone else's current situation (however dissimilar) and seeing how you might feel in their shoes. I don't remember where the quote comes from but the sentiment the deeper felt something is, the more universal, comes to mind. I don"t think talk no jutsu is flawed simply because naruto did not share the exact same experiences as Neji and Gara etc. Ultimately, it all comes down to perspective. The feeling of loneliness that Gara experience may be worse than narutos because of the violence surrounding it, but that shouldn't mean that it is impossible for naruto to relate.
*robertwilsong* I agree that it comes down to perspective. I just wanted to convey how Naruto's perspective is undermined by experiences that cannot be properly projected onto his enemies. Since Talk no Jutsu is essentially a verbal Miracle Machine, I would consider this to be a major flaw.
These videos have been great, but I noticed that they highlight one of the biggest problems with the Naruto series in general: There is WAY too much focus placed on Naruto and Sasuke, and all of the side characters suffer greatly for it. Everything that happened in the series was either an experience or a lesson for one of them, even if the situation did not involve them in any way. Every time I go back to the chuunin exams, I'm reminded of how much potential was lost.
No one gives a shit about Tenten , she is a very uninteresting character. Neji's character arc / book closed with the Naruto v Neji fight. Lee is certainly lost potential Shino and Kiba too are not as interesting as Lee , but could have been utilized a bit better Ino was used well , in the Hidan Kakuzu arc to and the War , using her jutsu to communicate with the alliance and relay information in place of her dad. We lost 2-3 Konoha characters but look at what we gained , we gained even stronger , deeper and better characters who got good attention / the proper attention needed in Shippuden for their development.
And that's the way it should be. One of the main issues in One Piece, another major WSJ shonen is that after the time-skip, a lot of unnecessary characters were introduced leading to bloated arcs and lack of screentime on the actual Straw Hats.
@@ikiliousdasylouiyasbdetyw9124 Isn't that something One Piece is praised for? It's world building and how those new characters introduce you to the concept of the new world? The 7 warlords for example?
@@Mufflin Worldbuilding is fine but the side characters take away from the actual crew and make the arcs longer than they need to be. And I'm not talking about the Shichibukai. I'm talking about Hyogoro, the boring Scabbards, Onimaru, the giants in Punk Hazard, etc
Either every fanbase is cancer or none of them are. There's always going to be that negative part of any fandom that stands out above the rest, so the whole "the fanbase is toxic" statement doesn't really mean much.
I only read the Boruto manga, but you have the paradoxical hypocrisy of "Tools vs. Hard Work" that can be touched and debated. Naruto's era was all about hard work and effort to reaching new heights. Now Boruto's era takes the easy road by characters becoming more reliant on using ninja tools to have access to stronger techniques. Which is something that traditional ninjas do. Boruto was expelled from the Chunin exams for using a weapon to boost his techniques when that is something that ninjas need to use to survive in combat. Then Naruto had scolded Boruto for cutting corners for the exams and not trusting his own abilities. The question of who was in the right and wrong between Boruto and Naruto could be discussed to high heaven. Both of them can be seen right and wrong even if Boruto was painted in the bad light here.
I think it needs to be pointed out that Naruto was never against the use of tools. He was never anti-technology or old-school. This is proved by the fact that he got Katasuke to build him what is essentially a Preta Path arm. What Naruto is against is the use of shortcuts in the exams, because that is an exhibit of your own abilities, just like in real life. We don't let kindergarten kids use calculators because they need to learn their basics.
Well he got scolded because the whole point of the exams is to do your best under your own power. The scientific ninja tool clearly gave Boruto an edge the other competitors didn't have and wasn't his own power. Boruto even knew going in that he was cheating, hated doing it, and regretted it afterwards and made apologies after getting back home.
"expelled... for using a weapon to boost his techniques" It's not like Sage mode which also boosts attacks, no these were techniques that he did not know or could not do. AFAIK It doesnt add to their attack, it is an attack on its own sealed inside a scroll. No hand signs were used, remember? IIRC it had nature transformations that Boruto did not know (fire) and technique mastery he absolutely did not have (shuriken-jutsu). It might have supplemented the Rasengan but I'm not sure how. "that is something that ninjas need to use to survive in combat" No, that is something *1 ninja* used to *excel* in combat, Konohamaru excluded. "Naruto had scolded Boruto for... not trusting his own abilities." No, up until the parts where he uses the tool Boruto was using his abilities just fine. The problem was that his abilities weren't good enough and instead of doing his best and failing he opted to cheat instead. It's not right and wrong, it's wrong and understandable but still wrong. The point of the exam is to show how good the Genin themselves are, not how good the equipment is. Kunai and the like are allowed because they require proficiency to be used effectively. The Gauntlet entirely removes that prerequisite. They wont grow as much if they use these as a crutch. Its like Goku and Vegeta not using SSJ when training on Beerus' world.
in star wars Darth Vader saved his son and killed the emperor, costing him his own life. its a very touching scene and a great turn of events, more than the hero overpowering the villain, its the good in those people taking the upper hand over the darkness. for Luke and us in this moment his father really becamse his father again, after he was swallowed up by hatred and lust for power so long. it doesnt make his past actions forgotten or redeem him before everyone, but on an emotional level for Luke that doesnt matter at all. it wouldve been off would cities around the universe erect statues in darth vaders image to praise him for destreying the emperor, because he really wasnt the hero there. Obito to me is the same, also luckily both these characters didnt survive. if they did, I imagine they wouldve been imprisoned, killed or exiled to a remote planet somewhere. narratively its been for the best to kill them there, let their final action be heroic and motivated towards saving our hero, so that their memoriam can be one of redemption and triumph of good.
I'm honored you would pick my comment, I now regret not having expressed myself more clearly and concisely. At any rate you stated something along the lines of realism not being terribly important to you which is a perfectly fair opinion but I though it might be worthwhile to give mine. My position towards realism in art only requires it remain true to human nature. I have no problem with unrealistic abilities, magic, physical attributes, settings etc but when characters stop acting like human beings I start having problems. After all a major purpose of art is to come to a deeper understanding of ourselves and the human condition something which can only really be accomplished by studying ourselves through characters which mirror us (at least in the context of narrative driven works). Now I would never go so far as to say that characters should act predictably but their actions should be understandable for a character given their situation. Moreover I think I would be far more willing to forgive Naruto's lack of realism in its characters if it were to actually do something meaningful with that fact, the reality of the series however is that the thematicism of most character redemptions is pretty shallow and primarily serve only as convenient plot devices. Additionally even from a practical writing standpoint it is far easier to become engaged with a story whose characters are relatable which practically requires they think and act in relatable ways i.e. like human beings. So as a writer even if your only intention is to entertain your audience and you have nothing deeper to say it is still wise to write realistic characters with which your audience can relate.
Meh, I actually find the redemptions pretty interesting given the context of their turning points. It's not just Naruto going "hey, stop being an antagonist k thx bye", we always ends up seeing very meaningful discussions and introspection about the antagonist's life, what led them to this point and how they can find a way to get back in touch with the people they once were. The main point of those redemptions being to show that nobody is too far from change unless you're just not willing to make that decision (whether or not that's a shallow theme is mostly subjective so I don't care about arguing against that). I'm not really sure where the argument of the characters not acting in a way that makes sense with their motivations comes into play. Never read through any of the redemptions in Naruto and thought it was breaking my suspension of disbelief because of how little it makes sense for the character to be changing their mind. It definitely feels more like people misinterpreting the characters more then the characters being the actual problem here.
@@SuperHamachiBrother1 And yet, it happened to most villains in Naruto. It doesn't matter what is the purpose of a redemption. If its botched, people will criticize it. What I'm seeing here is excuse after excuse thrown out, and criticism deflected because "you don't understand what the author meant, so your opinion doesn't matter". Also, emphasis on "meaningful discussions and introspection on a antagonist's life". That's highly subjective, especially when characters previous actions don't add up. Like how Itachi was always doing this for his brother, despite the horrible atrocities he committed. He did it for the "greater good", but doesn't kill his brother out of kindness? The same brother who later wants to destroy what Itachi protected. This symbolism would have been great, but you're forgetting an important aspect, the execution. It was poorly executed, so it fell flat. If all along, it's because people didn't understand the characters, then doesn't that speak more about the writing itself being poorly done? It could be, it could be not. What I don't understand, is that it's always 100% because people don't understand, then the writing being bad. Always giving the author the benefit of the doubt, like his story is somehow flawless meaning characters acting a certain way that makes no sense in context means there MUST be logical explanation.
@Agent Ombraura the story tells us nothing first of all, the fact that it is told through unrealistic characters is merely the nail in the coffin. as to how I know they are unrealistic perhaps a better way to phrase myself is to say they are not indicative nor introspective of human nature nor is that nature expressed impressionistically. I'm speaking in generalities of course. it is painfully clear that they are fantasy characters created to act in whatever way is most convenient to suit the writers needs in any given moment. character motivations, development and diegetic consistency are treated as annoyances to be swept aside, that is when they are considered at all.
"It isn't realistic for someone to change in such a short time." But that is false, it happens all the time. Age, sex, ethnicity and background aren't even a factor.
You don't know what you are talking about, EVERYONE has severely flawed idealogies. And that isn't even what I was talking about, I meant in other ways due to trauma!
@Nameless Fag You don't know anyone like that? Change is usually a slow process, but it can happen quickly too. Think of people you know who have changed quickly. It's more realistic if they're about to die or just got their butt handed to them or are put in very drastic circumstances.
@Nameless Fag Yes, but the point of Naruto in showing these characters have them at such a point that their intentions aren't necessarily wrong, teetering already on the point of change. The ideologies in Naruto are twisted due to the cruelties of the ninja world and the tragedies of characters' pasts. Itachi was always a loving character who worked for his village and brother. Pain really just wanted peace. Obito wanted an end to suffering. It's not as if they were bent on destroying the world and then suddenly wanted to protect it, it was always there. It was the methods they wanted to use that were messed up.
On the whole realism point you trying to make. Honestly at that point if anyone dislikes naruto for that reason it all boils down to a matter of personal taste and what each of us personally values in a story. You can never be truly 100% objective in narrative analysis. Individual pieces can be broken apart and argued but at the end of the day if it doesn’t match your personal taste you’re not gonna like it. And that’s totally fine, everyone is different after all.
Thank you for this video,and whole hipocrisy triology, it was interesting and made me view naruto from completely different perspective...and i couldn't agree more about the thing you mentioned at the end. People who watched Naruto for a couple of years on a weekly basis became really pasionate and addicted fans,but can't really grasp integrity of the entire series until they rewatch it...maybe i will...someday...maybe with my kids so i have enough time to forget naruto and be excited about watching it again(although currently i'm still 21😂 and don't plan on having them for at least 10years ).
Some of those comments....When you try to use "realism" as a factor in anime, that's an automatic L. It's not even like some comic books where their universe is a cross between ours and they have superpower individuals living amongst us of how we actually operate in our universe. Animes are always outlandish in terms of not just power but interaction between people. To even say "well they don't have counseling sessions or anything". STOP. JUST STOP. One of the grandfathers for most people in anime was the dragonball series and they literally had the protagonist beat people and they would become part of the team just because.
Anime like all media borrows from reality, but even at that it’s a persons imperfect perspective of reality. All media, anime included is realistic but at the same time FICTION. Which means it also goes against reality. If you want reality read books about war, watch documentaries and never touch tv ever again. Cause it’s all not real or realistic.
in response to the commenters mentioned in the video: 1) Yes, Naruto indeed has to project pretty hard to successfully Talk no Jutsu various "villains" into his own worldview. However, that would be the case for all of us. Simply because it is impossible to experience anything exactly as someone else did. Yes, Naruto does not have the background to replicate Neji's or Gaara's predicament. Yes, Naruto doesn't even come close to Nagato's loses. However, he is able to feel their misfortune. Refer to how Naruto teaches Konohamaru the Rasengan. Yes, that's borderline clinically retarded, but he does have this "gut feeling", this empathy, that allows him to experience whatever his friend/foe is feeling based only on the emotions they have shown. And as much as it is a pretty "Mary Sue" trait, it does fit Naruto pretty well within the story. And that's actually how human beings interact. Without having the experience of a refugee from a war-torn country you're able to sympathize with them. Or vice versa, you're able to understand a threat from a terrorussian even without having them to invade *your* country. It's very humane to be empathetic and understand things on an emotional rather than logical level. 2) While sudden "moments of clarity" can look unreal in a vacuum, they do make sense in the context of Naruto's opponents. All of Naruto's villains/antagonists are good in nature from the start (bar Mizuki, who's a fucking nobody, to begin with, Madara, who's a man with a well-formed worldview and Kaguya, who's the best villain in manga history xD). What they really look for is affirmation/rebuttal from an external source to act upon. Neji: preaches about destiny and fatalism, yet challenges it at every step possible. Gaara: hates anything alive, yet looks for love and acceptance. Nagato: disillusioned in Jiraya's idealistic view, yet tries to create peace just how his sensei told him. They all know they're wrong and in Naruto, they find that external confirmation they're looking for. 3) When Naruto redeems a villain/antagonist he does not "wash away" their sins. He merely implies, that whatever they've done in the past is irrelevant to what they can to in the future. And while that's a pretty simplistic/naive worldview, there's a certain charm to it. As in "the Past is not here to remind the Present what it should be in the Future...". The idea that anyone and everyone is redeemable is very optimistic and foolish, but that's the Naruto we know and it fits him well. 4) Talk no Jutsu in off itself is kinda awkward if we would put it in real life. Or for example, putler. No matter what you say, his imperial ambitions would still get the best of him. However, anime is anime. It's a cultural medium. It's supposed to be fictional, and Talk no Jutsu is just fine in the fictional world. It conveys a very important idea to the viewer - words before fists. Something we all should listen to. 5) Naruto does have its shortcomings (as in what exactly makes Sasuke loveable? He's a jock douchebag that cares for nobody, etc.). Sometimes the ideas are way too simplistic. Sometimes the main hero is downright a Mary Sue - the fight against Kakuzu is way too easy in my opinion. Someone who gave Hashirama a hard time shouldn't have gone down in a single jutsu, no matter how powerful it is. And don't even get me started on the technical side of things :D However, I would say that "Naruto" really is one of the best anime in existence simply due to the core values and ideas it conveys in very simple forms. Friends are important. Losses happen and you should accept that. Hatred only breeds more hatred. True victory comes from the knowledge of oneself, not the mastery over a thousand weapons, etc.
*Volodymyr Postizhenko* Ooooh, do I have qualms with you, strawmanner #3542. Lol. Naw, but real talk, I disagree *wildly,* buuut I see where you're coming from. Some of the simpler ideas of camaraderie and whatnot make sense even in Naruto.
*Volodymyr Postizhenko* The qualms are your strawman arguments. Those can be excused, however, as you aren't the first. I don't see how a plot device affecting me in real life should matter, but the answer is no. Not because I'm a special case, but because I'm not a conformist sheep like everyone in Naruto. Because I'm *not* a special case, unironically.
naruto's number one fanboy 21 Well, point number 3 specifically seems to think I believe that the villains’ sins were just washed away. I said no such thing. The other points are essentially concessions that try to use the “it works in fiction/Naruto’s world” shtick. It’s not a new argument. This is assuming the guy’s addressing _my_ arguments, of course. He may be referring to someone else.
My two cents: "Don't let Boruto taint Madara by including him into such a series, use Kaguya instead! XD". not sarcastic, this just what I was feeling when you were talking about Madara being brought into Boruto.
You don't have to listen to those people complaining that a villain changing their ideology is "unrealistic". Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I dunno. But you can't make art photo-realistic or else you abandon the creativity and romanticism. I don't even think it's unrealistic. There's a saying: If you scratch the surface of a cynic, you'll find a disappointed idealist. The reason Naruto was able to change the ideology of Pain and Obito is because they still wanted to believe in their original ideals. When they asserted their twisted/cynical beliefs, I saw it as, deep down, a cry for help. They tested Naruto's resolve because deep down inside, they wanted him to prove them wrong. Some small part of them were seeking the answer from him that they could not find themselves.
Neji was not right. He said there was nothin you could do to change or effect your destiny and that was proven wrong by Naruto. The argument that Neji was right would hold some water had he not said, "once a loser always a loser".
Madara won, he created a world with no war. The vilages united against him, so technically he achieved his dream, even if he did so using another method. That is what i love about this character. Even when he loses, he wins.
That's a good point, but Hashirama's dream was to pass on the will of fire to future generations so that they can surpass what his generation had done. And that culminates with Naruto's generation defeating Madara/Kaguya. So in a sense both Madara and Hashirama won. Really most of the protagonists and antagonists wanted a world without war, but all went about it differently, but all must be somewhat satisfied that Naruto was able to achieve their shared goal.
You might also say that Madara achieved what later became Sasuke's dream during Sasuke's fight with Naruto - to unite the world in war against himself and thus end all other wars. Madara just did it so effectively that he didn't need to be a continual specter the way Sasuke desired to be.
First, good job on all the videos you made about hypocrisy and also the one about Neji! I'm very messy when it comes to explain myself about complex topics, specially when they are not in my mother tongue, so I'm sorry if they are all over the place. I agree with all that has been said in the video "Anime is UNREALISTIC!?" from craftsdwarf, however I think that there is much more to be said, and in other words, may I say. All these debates are inherently philosophical, they revolve around the concept of reality and the underlying epistemology, up until now I haven't seen any comment about this specifically: what we call "realism" draws heavily from the empirical perspective which we all subreptitiously share since we are all part of modern societies based on Science and Technology (and with access to Internet), and that's not bad at all, of course. You may call it a paradigm of thought if you wish, back in the time of animism the world was explained via Myths and a different reasoning, if it rained it was because some god or goddess had been pleased because somebody did something (which we all know doesn't have any influence) like dancing, hence the origin of the "Rain dance". What we now call fiction, they called reality. The thing is... applying this concept of empirical reality to fiction is problematic in more ways than I can grasp, first, by definition, fiction is opposed to reality, just like the concept of virtuality, because if it is not opposed, we go back to the old times I've just described, so rejoyce we can tell the difference. And since it is a different "realm", it is governed by different laws, not the laws of physics, but the laws of language, syntax, morphology, etc, and the "laws of human psychology", and that means that fiction is restricted to what we can perceive and how we can perceive it, our focus can't be directed to different places at once, that means that we can't follow different stories in a meaningful way at once, you don't watch 4 movies at a time, it's pointless, that's why there aren't any movies with four cameras at once showing different significant stories. Also, it is "restricted" in other way, but not as a law: good/bad quality: reality is boring, that's why we write fiction in the first place, meaningful things happen all the time in fiction, whereas in outside reality (no, this isn't a pun, I'm pointing to "the empirical reality") that is not the case, also, depending on your definition of "reality", it may not even have meaning at all, we are the ones that construct the meaning (see constructivism). I firmly believe that what makes a good fiction is its internal consistency and the creativity to make a complex "construction" which heavily involves the "receiver" (be it a reader, listener or viewer) in many ways, specifically in an emotional way, many call the internal consistency "verisimilitude", but..., "veri" comes from "veritas" which means "truth" or "reality" and "similitude", well... it's obvious that it means "similarity", of course, fiction doesn't have to copy reality to be internally consistent, that's the whole point. In other words, it's a relationship between author and reader/viewer/etc and as such it is rooted in the subjectivity of both, if I can't understand fiction, what's the point of the work having good internal consistency? If it is very bad and just reading it feels insulting to my intelligence, well... I will say it's shit, basically, and, yes, long live postmodernism. This is crucial, because it erases the possibility of writing the perfect book or filming the perfect movie, and all of this because the need for the suspension of disbelief. The suspension of disbelief varies from person to person, from subjectivity to subjectivity, and it is heavily influenced by culture, have you ever shown an anime to an old person just for them to just dismiss it as junk or senseless? They may point out as annoying that "everyone uses the name of the others all the time", yes, because it's japanese culture. This does not happen because "it's not as real as that person expects", it happens because in his/her subjectivity he/she cannot suspend his/her disbelief upon finding certain elements, it may be as well the "avatars" of the characters, we grew up watching anime, we know that those big-eyed fancy-dressed colorful "avatars" are valid characters that simulate human beings, but old people don't have that internalized. TL;DR Let's go back to Naruto: there's nothing real in ninjas that can walk over liquids, walls or even roofs, there's nothing real in jutsus, there's nothing real in drawn characters, there's nothing real in them interacting with other drawings; however, you can successfully touch upon many philosophical and actual topics in certain ways, just like sorrow, societal problems, hope, morality, will, determinism and free will, and many others, as long the "receivers" of that fiction accept what they are reading/watching as consistent and worth of suspension of disbelief, and you are not a terrible author, of course. A very good example is "Animal Farm" from George Orwell, yes, it's about animals... and it's one of the best satires of communism and stalinism ever accomplished. It just have to move you, it just have to get you involved, realistic or not, it has to follow its rules, just that, and Naruto takes its own rules seriously, you may not like how Kishimoto did the execution, but many others will, the flaws of the series have to be internal, if they say they are ninjas one episode and Storm Troopers the following (I highly recommend visitting the webpage tvtropes for this), if they are humans and suddenly they are flawless or just flat, but this last bit is very tricky, because it opens a new world, we are suddenly judging human beings, and that means... yes, psychology, philosophy and anthropology, yey, what is our concept of a human being? I overstretched this so I will end it, it depends on the period of history, humans were considered as mere reason and racionality in the enlightment, it changed with postmodernism, and it also changed with the help of James Joyce and Freud, and it certainly changed many times throughout the last century. In my opinion, characters in Naruto usually keep a personality you can point out, they are not flat, they aren't the most complex neither, but at least they all have reasons, flaws, traits, etc, you can remember Itachi saying that everyone and every jutsu has a weakness, you can clearly apply that to Naruto as a whole, people can relate to the feeling of lack, of course we do, Evangelion wouldn't be popular if we didn't lol, what I mean, there is a lot of content there, you may not like how it was executed, you may disagree with author, but you cannot say it doesn't follow its own rules, and I think it would be silly to say that the premise of the show isn't interesting, who doesn't want to be a goddamn ninja with superpowers?
I hate the part about Sarada becoming the Hokage for the sake of plot, while Naruto becoming the Hokage was this epic sequence of character-defining moments all of which could easily serve as the turning point for the series (the two can't be compared the way you did)
Oh shit are you actually rereading Bleach and planing on making the video that's really surprising and I'm assuming it's the same concept from the nen show which will keep this entire streak of CONTRADICTION videos going but that's only if you're approaching the topic that way
lifefailout000is really wildin out. Like you can dislike or hate a story or its components, but this guy is just saying Naruto is a terrible piece of fiction as if his favorite pieces of literature aren't flawed whatsoever. Naruto doesn't virtue signal, calling someone out on their BS isn't virtue signaling, we just interchange the in today's conversations. Naruto comes from an older time where someone to stand out not perfectly but with conviction was attractive. Also, that whole thing about trauma and suffering from other villains, is he really invalidating Naruto's experiences because he's not satisfied with the narrative? that's some abusive junk if I've ever seen it, people like Gaara aren't unique in Naruto's world, how he says it's just loneliness, Naruto was the son of the president and then was turned into a semi-homeless reject. Sure Gaara went through an assassination attempt, but the Sand village and other few villages were known to be cruel long before these two were born. If I'm born in an impoverished city or town and my idea of wealth is being able to eat twice a day leftovers and have a roof over my head, I can't on people who didn't live where I did if they had more, but if they are being horrible I can call them out on their BS. If Gaara is such a good example for this dude of how bad Naruto is as a protagonist, why not look at Haku? I think he went through horrible stuff, yet I didn't see Naruto's view on him as invalidating him. Heck if someone as common as Iruka whose parents were killed by the nine-tailed fox which was the way naruto was referred as during his childhood, was able to call out Naruto on his BS, educate him and defend and accept him in the end, then Naruto's "virtue signaling" is valid as heck. Also, that thing about Naruto not being able to reach others without seeing himself in others is not a flaw. That has been taught through history, "don't do to others what you wouldn't want to be done to yourself" "put yourself in other's shoes" etc. And the whole unrealistic thing is beyond ridiculous to me. "It's unrealistic" really MFer when did you notice? When Naruto reached Gaara but you missed how unrealistic it was when Naruto was denied basic care as the son of a political figure? How did the Hyuga clan let the female heir to their clan, an important asset, be thrown into deadly combat over and over? Something that would never happen? Countries knew of Orochimaru yet let him run wild? realistically the Stone village and the Cloud village would've relentlessly pushed to get him and try to use him. Naruto is full of inconsistencies but that's part of the ride, some things are to be sacrificed so others are more fine-tuned. Really childish responses tbh.
I think your problem with the 'anime is unrealistic' argument is that we live in reality and it basically functions the same for all of us. Therefore if a series shows people working on the bacon vs blue tie spectrum, that's incomprehensible to us, and makes the message harder to sink in because it's no longer people learning and changing, it's very suddenly and obviously become characters going through an arc
Leonard Deal. I'm severely confused, I didn't say whether I liked it or not. In fact I've never read more than a single book of the manga, and I haven't seen the anime post Zabuza arc. This was a refutation of Mathwiz's argument. Please explain yourself.
Boredfan Gerrude. I agree, I think that for most people change is mostly a gradual process. There are exceptions, true. But my point is, is that most people don't change significantly over the course of a day, much less a conversation. Especially considering that most of them very much want to kill Naruto at the time why would they listen to him? Imagine you're seeing red, not only are you fired up, you straight up want to kill them, they beat you. After they're done beating the daylights out of you they explain that you're wrong and they're right. What is your reaction? To listen to them? Or to not listen to them because you're absolutely livid.
Naruto forcing Sasuke to come back to the village despite what Sasuke really wants. Such a dominance guy. How can he call himself Sasuke's friend when he doesn't respect Sasuke's idea???
I don't think you're missing anything with Kaguya as a character. She felt extremely forced in and unnecessary after Madara, and thematically didn't fit. The three legendary Sannin were based on Japanese folk tales too, but they had the development necessary for good characterisation. Even if Kaguya was a seed planted in Naruto to help tie in Boruto, if you need to read a separate text to understand a character in the original, it's not a strong character. Boruto suffers from a LOT of problems when it comes to story structure and themes - especially following from Naruto. Most of the cast seems to exist reactively - only acting for the purposes of plot, and not for their own ideals/ambitions, which feels extremely sluggish. There are some interesting ideas and new characters, but those positives are far outweighed by predictable and unsatisfying story beats. I really wanted to enjoy Boruto's Dad's Son's story, but I genuinely think it falls way too far from the tree. I'm looking forward to your thoughts on Boruto if you ever decide to get into it.
Kaguya as a tool to explain the origins of chakra I am totally fine with it despite a few flaws or unconsistencies. Kaguya as a villain however... just ugh... awful.
There is a defense for that second point. Naruto at no point ever says that his situation is equivalent to anyone else's. What he says is that he has had similar feelings of loneliness, rejection, self-doubt. You could look at Mizuki in a similar experience to what Gaara had with Yashamaru. Second, Naruto fully acknowledges that his situation is different from Gaara or Neji in that he found people who cared about him and that is what he teaches everyone he "talk no jutsu's". Zabuza learns it's okay to show that he cared about Haku. Neji learns that his father did not hate the main Hyuga family. Gaara recognizes that Temari and Kankuro genuinely care about him despite there fear of him. Sasuke is the exception because Sasuke starts out as being loved and loses everyone and that is something Naruto can't identify with until he loses both Jiraiya and Kakashi. As far as Kakuzu goes Naruto wasn't just taking a step down Sasuke's path. Naruto actually has a habit of trying to do too much by himself and taking on burdens one individual should not hold alone; ESPECIALLY when it comes to Sasuke; ex: swearing to Sakura he will bring Sasuke back, letting himself get taken over by Kurama when facing Deidara and later Orochimaru, facing Kakuzu alone, begging for Sasuke's life at the summit . Itachi points this out to him after he meets Naruto during the War arc.
*Tariq Blake* I . . . . . never said that Naruto says his situation is equivalent to anyone else's. Assuming your first paragraph was directed at my comment's scan, know that I merely wanted to point out how Naruto's feelings are superficial and overrated.
I feel Kaguya was born from the necessity to bring team 7 back together. While Naruto wasn’t “rewarded” for facing Kakazu alone, he did get stronger and it did take him a step in the direction of eventually befriending Kurama. But every time Naruto did his Talk no Jutsu, it was just him alone talking to the antagonist. That means that the antagonist would necessarily have to have a tragic past for Naruto to find and remind them of that. The Sage of Six Paths said he wasn’t sure what drove his mother to suddenly become so heartless, but it happened when she ate the chakra fruit. Maybe Kishimoto didn’t want to explore that too much bc he didn’t want Naruto to talk her down, he had to get team 7 back together as a cohesive unit before Sashke and Naruto’s final showdown. It wouldn’t have made sense to Naruto’s entire narrative for him not to use Talk no Jutsu against an opponent with a reason to change, so Kishimoto left that out of Kaguya’s character. The Talk no Jutsu of that final arc was with Sasuke, so we didn’t need to see it with Kaguya bc the tension between Naruto and Sasuke was laced throughout the entire final battle sequence with Kaguya, even though they were working together. So, unlike his fight against Kakuzu temporarily costing him his arm because he chose to fight alone against an irredeemable opponent, he was successful against Kaguya because he relied on his team. And ironically, permanently lost his arm with his Talk no Jutsu against Sasuke.
Here is my take on kaguya she is madarsas ideology personified or at least hi goal hi point is that mans hypocrucy is unsolvleble so he will make a perfect world throght the eye of the moon plan and kaguya is that would personifed but aperfect world is one without hipocracy and thus one without conflict but conflict is what lets us grow like how naruto and sauske conflict had them pushing each other forward untill they could defeat a perfect veimg with out said flaws like kaguya
Bleach is very interesting because Ichigo really stands out in shounen cause he has no real goal but many things that are weird cause the Quincys and full bringers good luck
I won't be talking about any of what you just mentioned lol. I have something more specific in mind, and since I'm not much of a Bleach fan as a whole, that's probably for the best.
You have to remember, the thing about Naruto is that Shinzo I history is everyone who was involved and died for their will to be carried on And Zetsu mocked that because he set a bunch of events to happen solely for who? For Kaguya…. So Kaguya is important for the story (even in Boruto) I give her character more credit than some do because she did have a role regardless
If ever there was a power that a hokage would needits the ability to reason with someone. Naruto was always a borne leader. If Naruto just overpowered everyone would be really be a good leader
Dude I love your videos, I really think they're well made and you shouldn't put yourself down so much. Seems like most comments you receive only tell you where you messed up and what things you got wrong, so I just want to tell you that you're doing a great job! Keep doing what you do!
I probably make it seem that way considering I mostly only address the comments pointing out my flaws, but I do generally get a lot of praise on my comments. It's just really easy to focus on the negatives even when they're far outnumbered by positives. I'm trying to stop hating myself as much as I do, but it's a work in progress.
First time I've been featured in _any_ video. Dayyuuum. I think I still have some disagreements with this video; I believe Sasuke and Naruto couldn't be far enough apart, for instance. I never found the former to be an exception to Naruto wankers like Gaara, Neji, Nagato, etc., but whatevs. You seem to be a sincere Naruto supporter, so your videos are worth commenting on. Keep up the good work!
Actually if you really take an look at that logic it's pretty consistent for Naruto "You're no longer the demon fox that tried to kill me on the day I was born forcing my parents to jump in front of a fucking claw and kill themselves to protect me but since you hate Madara you're an ally of Konoha" Uzumaki.
i wonder if naruto would say that if obito killed hinata instead of neji....seems a bit hypocritical...without her speech naruto would give up so that seems like a joke
@@shawnmiller4185 That actually makes no sense. Kurama quite literally rarely if ever sought to do shit to anyone, and I am pretty sure Naruto understood that by that point. Not a single one of the Bijuu truly did until people WILLINGLY got in their way and started pulling this Jinchuriki business like complete retards. Lo and behold, the times Kyuubi is made to kill people in the village, he's not even doing anything willingly, he's goddamn mind controlled and fucked into it, not even mentioning that he has all the right after being robbed of his freedom and free will by being sealed like a bomb deterrent for his power. Obito has none of this shit... he deliberately fucked people over that never did nothing wrong to him, caused deaths and despairs and a horrible world all over, because his fucking girl died... Kakashi had his dad literally suicide, but no Obito, we are cool for you being such a shit lord. Your situation is totally understandable. Forgiving Obito and forgiving the fox is not really comparable from any angle.
human being can have a sudden moment of clarity what Naruto is doing is pointing out the mistakes from his perspective which after analysing it they understand it think of it as a maths question you can't solve then later someone shows you how to do it and you are like oh that was so obvious how could I not think of that
On your point with realism: As a writer, the problem is not that something is unrealistic, the issue is the proportion of it. We don't really see many arguments on how Vegeta's redemption arc is unrealistic, we discuss it a lot, but because the series doesn't quite go too in-depth with his acts, and he is portrayed as a wild card for most of the series, that is good enough. Naruto is plagued with repeating flashbacks to bring up a point, and that point is: *Why does that character's feelings matter.* And then their change is just sudden and that is about it. It did not need to do that at all, Kakuzu, Kisame, and every poor unexplored soul from the sound village, including Taka have good premises, good concepts as a character, and although they have plenty depth to be dug, they work just as well on a shonen manga framework. *That is alright.* But then we see villains have whole arcs on why they became that way and suddenly they are okay and no longer a challenge because they were beaten. Pain literally shuts up Naruto and challenges his entire worldview when he captures him, and Naruto's way to change his mind is: Idk the answer but I'll find out. Nagato, who spent decades understanding politics and betrayal and the very nature of war from different angles: Understandable, have a great day. You talk about the lack of opportunity of a character to have redemption, but that is bad writing on itself. Konan and Nagato just die, when they could have perfectly being the first country to be on the alliance and that is why the kage's meeting is important. Danzo would have a point against Naruto for keeping Pain alive, Sasuke actually is justified in wanting to kill the elders at this point because those are characters that walked out with *genocide*. Could Nagato have an alliance with the village after killing so many? The sand certainly did? If chakra is the problem (which is hilarious to point out considering what comes after) trust could come from Naruto and Nagato using part of the Ninetails chakra to revive them if that was so important for Kishimoto. Obito might have good in them but he has the highest on-screen and implied bodycount of all the characters from active decisions, kills Naruto's parents, his future-cousin-in-law, his friends parents and so many others including basically everyone who has some kind of trauma in the Leaf, and not even let me get started on the Mist... and we become a meme for about two weeks when he says Obito was "the coolest guy". Sasuke never deals with the village, he just walks away, he has no conclusions with the elders, nothing. While there are dozens of good arguments to keep them alive after the war, Him, Kabuto and Orochimaru are basically treated like they were going through a phase... and the series don't bother to use any of them.
I don't think your idea for Nagato would work. Wouldn't they have to face justice for their crimes if they survived? Pretty sure what they did guaranteed a death sentence.
When you're so much more powerful than someone that their wrongdoings aren't threatening to you and can be trivially stopped, all you really have to do is beat their face in once. They'll get the hint and you won't have to worry about them again. Naruto can forgive people so easily because he had god-like powers.
· 0xFFF1 Naruto never really forgive pain or Nagato for what they done,but He was abel to set His Personal desire for Revenge and hatered by side and make Peace with them, because Naruto realize with His confrontaion with pain that Revenge and hatred Just making The Things worser and If He wants truly Archive Peace He must be Abel to Set His desire for Revenge and hatered by side.
Joel ! Did you now thats kryptonian sayajins Chanel got deleted,i thought He is Just sick or bussie and thats The Reason why He didn,t Up load for a time and Today i would Check on His Community Funktion If He wrotte when He Starts Up loading but when i went to His Channel it was deleted.What a shame when you consuder how great His Channel was and how much Work He Put in to reach so many viewers and subscribers
I think in the back of his mind, Madara knew he would loose, and through his power, Shinobi would work together to kill him, thus uniting the world under the threat of himself, like what Sasuke tried to do, and a bit like Light Yagami from Death Note.
@@SHINOBIJACK I see you have no standards thats great and what do you mean i would know something about that? Do you think i enjoy dragon ball super thats just as bad as boruto and fan fictiony like your shit show?
Casey James not really his also a liar 1 he knows about the uchia massacre and decided to keep it secret 2 lies and says that it was itachi who resurrected the dead and not kabuto which has killed many many people and defiled the past ninja 3 he keeps orochimaru a secret from everyone ....I wounder what garra and the sand would say if they found out that Naruto has orochimaure close to him when it was orochimaru who tricked the sand to attack konaha and killed the kazikage Hell there was only a few people who knows that kabuto and orochimaru was working close with Naruto 4 he doesn’t give punishment for those who ordered the death of uchia Hell there was only a few people who knew mitsuki was orochimarus son and he never told anyone Hell Naruto after hearing about the uchia massicare ...Naruto didn’t didn’t think .....oh how could the village do this ....but instead he was going....how can he think of revenge Naruto doesn’t question why the village did what it did ......I mean it think about it It was all ...oh revenge is bad Not Why did the village do this why am I defending this village if they are willing to sacrifice there own ninja
i'm willing to sacrifice some realism if there's an interesting an idea or message that's trying to be conveyed. I do have limits to that though, depending on the situation and i do think some of the execution of talk no jutsu could've been better, I do find it an interesting concept. Plus I like to think I'm an optimistic person so, that helps.
I don't understand what people mean when they say Naruto is not realistic are they talking about the powers? Because the characters mirror real life if you ask me.
I’m really curious. Do you think this is the best animated show ever? Not asking for facts but just what you think. Your opinion. Like is this your favorite animated show? If it’s not, which animated show is?
I agree thats is better to re Read or re watch The Animes you like, because when i First watch Naruto from Front to Back i totally agree with everything that Happen and i didn,t Questionung anything but when i came with The critizime of Naruto in contact we're People saying Naruto isn,t perfekt i Couldn,t belive IT and Re watch Naruto and by doing so i was abel to find some Plot holes or controdictory and See The Problem of The series in general.I was also Abel to understand some Charakters better and understand why they acting in The way they done Like Obito or that Naruto isn,r Just a stupid Guy with a good Heart who Just forgive everyone No Matter what they done.After Re watching Naruto, Sasuke become my Favorit anime Charakter of all time because i was abel to understand The Charakter and His Motivation.
In regards to the unrealistic change in antagonists. In my oppinion, all of them were in huge pain, thorn between the hypocrisy of the way they feel, act and think. The longer you live, the harder it gets to keep living this way. You act upon what you think, but that brings you pain that influences the way you think even more, wich influences your actions, wich brings you even more pain and so a vicious cycle of struggle is born. But when someone like Naruto comes along and shows them a different way of thinking, one that does not require them to struggle, they would accept it. Of course, not easily, but that is what the fights in Naruto symbolise. I haven't watched Naruto in a while, but I don't remember an antagonist changing their ideology without a fight. When Naruto defeats them and proves his ideology is better, they have no reason left to stick with their own way of thinking.
Then the characters "connecting" with Naruto is nonsensical. Naruto has the least sad story compared to the other characters. For the most part of the series, he doesn't even know how his parents died, so his experience is just a plain orphan, he was "hated" by the people of his village, so an abused orphan. It is a sad story but definitely not on the level of other villains. He doesn't understand any of their pain, so the villain suddenly changing their views because he "relates" is irrelevant. For example, in the Obito arc, he didn't suffer as much as Obito, His parents died when he has no memory of them. And even after they died, they managed to slipped a few parts of them into the future saying to him that they died happily and that they died "trusting" him, it's a very happy "death" if you call that "death". Obito lost Rin to a war event that doesn't benefit anybody at all, a meaningless event. His only friend, his only love, he has no family as well, Kakashi is his friend for about 2 hours before he got crushed by the gigantic rock. So the only thing that he loves, Rin, got taken away from him for meaningless reason. That hits much harder. Naruto can preach about pain but if you look at it, he doesn't suffer at all. Most of his friends survived the war, and his acquaintances who died, seemingly all died for "noble" reasons, even in their dying moments, all passed to him this "will of fire" in a few cheesy last words. Seemingly in Naruto world, nobody died for meaningless cause and people's greed for power, they all died happily doing something to "protect". The plot armor factor is so obvious that it's close to being ridiculous The talk no jutsu would be fine if it makes sense, in order for it to make sense, what he talks needs to make sense, but it doesn't. One simple rebuttal to Naruto argument against Obito. Naruto: What would Rin think of you now, Obito? Obito: What she thinks wouldn't matter anymore, because she's not here. Naruto: Whatttttt? It might sound harsh but dying can just be dying, people die all the time without meaningful reason, and sometimes, things people called meaningful reasons are just ridiculous reasons. She died protecting the village? Now who is insane enough to put that idea into a kid? And why is that idea a good thing? That you must "die" to serve this higher cause that cares little for your safety? Shinobi must follow rules? But doing so, abandoning your comrade is acceptable? People choice are the result of what makes them, of what they were taught, a world that taught people like that, to Obito, is hell. Obito cared for Rin, but Rin is dead, the reason he says he shall be the savior that lead mankind out of pain is because he wants to stop all conflict now and forever more, same as Madara. That's why he cast the infinite Tsukuyomi. People who died stopping him casting that genjutsu are the same ones who killed Rin, because they're advocating for a world where human can still decide to act upon their own benefits, causing conflict and he can not accept that. If Naruto can't accept Obito vision, then fine, because Obito can not accept Naruto vision. Obito might picture himself as the Hokage, who leads people to happiness by working together, but that is a dream, it can not happen, it contradict natural law. Absolute equality can never create happiness, because there is limited resource. Peace on the surface is just cover for nasty stuff below it. Obito vision that he is the Hokage because that is what he will experience when he goes inside the Infinite Tsukuyomi, to remind himself that he can not loose control, that he must finish what he started, so that he and everybody left alive, and everybody after him can experience happiness. That is the correct philosophical answer. Not the "I want to be Hokage" nonsense, you won't want to be Hokage if everybody you care about is dead. Because then why would you want to be Hokage for strangers? But of course, due to Naruto plot armor, they're still alive, his friends still give him "hope", unlimited hope because they will never die. Hope is a child answer and Obito, Madara, Nagato should know that when faced with the talk no jutsu. One can only have hope if there's still something left to give him hope, if they lost everything, there is no hope. Naruto never lost anything, that's the ridiculous point.
I am glad you took my comment into consideration (and also honored) but I also feel that, while the discussion was not perfect, I would call it a really solid start to talking about the concept of redemption and hypocrisy in the context of anime. Your videos are really insightful and do not possess that much hate over any piece of media so far. Honestly, I find the approach you had to Naruto, Madara and Neji to be well-made, especially since there have been times where, for example, Naruto's "obsession" with Sasuke comes off as annoying or Neji's fatalism as just hard-headedness and pent-up frustration for some people. If you are going to do Bleach videos, I really hope you discuss the unique position (if you can call it that) of Ichigo as a protagonist, seeing as his end goal is not centered on some position or object like Naruto and Luffy. Also maybe more on the deeper themes of Bleach, if you might find them. :D
To point 2. When Naruto ended. Kishimoto went on record to say. That his take on the antagonist. Was due to his grandfather telling him World War 1 or 2. And how the changes the world around created a paradox of emotions. Rather than making Naruto a killer talking about justice. Naruto never kills anyone personally because the narrative he had in mind. Requires him to bring peace. He then states that he understands that take us unrealistic. But it comes from a real place. Do to all the death his grandfather had seen. He can't reconcile the the 2 different versions of the world he lived in. The past and his present when Kishimoto was a boy.
I always thought it was interesting how narutos name came from jiraiyah who chose the name after looking at nagato and presumably just replacing the g with an r after the ramen noodles he was eating
There's a comment in the last video that said Naruto has a lot of hypocrisies. It's just that he's powerful enough to IMPOSE his will on others, and that will is deemed the "right" will. He is THE CHILD OF THE PROPHECY, people have destined lives and they do not get far away from them. There's no way Kiba can become Hokage for example, even though he wills it till the end of the series(his Infinite Tsukuyomi dream was that). Naruto says hardwork, but from the point he lost in that fight with Neji (cause that was like the loss against Pain, he used 'destined' power to get past the defeat), he spent the rest of the series gaining powers to cope with strong villains and enforce his will on them. The peace we have in Boruto is temporal cause Naruto is alive and basically a God. It's like the USA having "won" WW2 and there's "peace" cause no one can or wants to face them so they just follow. To perfect this analogy, the USSR(Sasuke) had to be an ally of the USA before the end of the war for that peace to be and all the powers of the world pointing in one direction, hence the too fast redemption of Sasuke and the bringin of aliens to get a plot. Boruto concentrates on aliens and not on the relationships between humans and villages. Once this batch of Kage dies, it'll be unrealistic if the next Kages do not want their villages to get a little stronger. Even though Madara caused the lack of trust towards the Uchiha, he didn't cause any of the wars and will of increasing power in people. That's how people get. Naruto himself wants peace, but also wants to get stronger than anyone. It's like the USA increasing their military budget and waging wars in the name of peace. And on that point there's no wayTalk-no-jutsu can work cause Naruto rarely has answers. He's just made OP and everything is solved. Also, the fact that his moral compass is not corrupted by all the powers he get is as unrealistic as any anime could get. There's a part before Madara is killed that Naruto tries to Talk-no-jutsu, and it immediately backlashes. The fight is over, people are living IDEALLY FOREVER, yet Naruto just wants to impose his will once more. "THINGS ARE NOT GOING MY WAY, LET'S FIGHT". Now that he has his third ideological defeat (Neji, Tendo and Madara) he needs more power to get through as he has always done, but he can't, the Rikudo himself has already intervened and he can't get past that. So what do we get? Madara's death, the greatest asspull in favor of our hero in the entire series.
Boruto hasn't gotten far enough yet to say for sure, but I kind of feel like Kaguya is meant to be messy in Naruto because one of the major themes I picked up on personally in Boruto is a "cleaning up our parent's mess" type of thing. You see it in the first arc especially, but also with everything that happened in the blood mist village as well. I think they intentionally made Kaguya unclear and messy.
The Sarada part just makes me thing of how sasuke and naruto getting together at the end would be an even better way of ending the "ashura and indra", with their conflict finally reaching an union between the two souls. It would be even better if they could have a kid (I know that they wouldn't be able to, this is just a thought), because then it would be the literal symbol of both of them being unified. Btw, this is literally just a point of view and personal opinion, if you don't agree just ignore it, don't come at me because you don't like the ship
About the stretch of time and gradual change, I disagree with the criticism because of what we are watching. Changes of heart and personal growth don't happen in an ascending line, just look at sobriety after addiction. If someone wants Realism, Sasuke is actually the modt realistic in that regard in my opinion, but within the narrative of a shonen anime, it sucks to watch when alongside the more streamlined talk-no-jutsu stuff (and of course, Sakura). However, a lot of thematic correspondences other than dialog seems like retrospective pondering by us to me. By that, I mean, for someone talking about friends and peace, Naruto sure fights 1v1 a lot.
it is mildly strange to say that both Neji and Naruto were half right. Naruto never attempted to argue Neji could become of another clan, but that he could chose a different path within that clan. There is no duality. Naruto is absolutely right, period. Furthermore, *so what* if they come from an esteemed clan? Gai was able to fight So6P Madara and would have killed him if not for regen
Here's a wild what-if; what if the Otsutsuki were planting divine trees, harvesting chakra from planets, amassing it in the chakra fruits they eat, and powering themselves up as a last ditch effort to fight off something far more dangerous than themselves.
It's actually super realistic because Naruto is based on Jesus Christ our Lord and savior. And as long as you accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, believe he died on the cross for all sins and rose again, and repent of your sins then you are redeemed. Simple and Clean as that... believe it
For me the answer for the duality is oneness that’s why the ending of Naruto it was not that favorite for a symbol best time having fun watching kind of people even the writer himself with all his geniuses when he reach the endpoint of all problems which is duality he couldn’t pass it that’s why he chose to kill all the best watches Naruto and do it all over again which is Boruto and for me it will be the same and I think the writer will know that that’s why he will do it in more colorful action and more colorful sadness and more colorful in everything but the basic of the problems that in Wass Naruto it will be also in Boruto it’s beautiful to put the B in the name anyway the reason that madara he is tapping the root of all problems which is duality was no fun because all of us know that the answer is we need to find the one witches in some cultures call it God and that’s no fun that’s hard core reality
wht tht guy said about Jiraiya was wrong tho wht Jiraiya believed is tht ppl will eventually come to understand each other wasnt really about differences of ppl getting along it was about eventually being able to understand one another and achieve peace also even if wht he said was right most of the antags tht Naruto face are different from him in the path they chose and eventually they understand each other cause Naruto went thru similar things so i wouldnt say thts a mockery he would have to re-read wht Jiraiya actually said
Awesome video I love your content Please make more Naruto content in future i always thought there is more to it than people give it credit for and someone acknowledging that is great
People change cause they have too. People also change to be a "better" version of themselves. People change when dealing with another perspective of their world view that's possible to achieve. Those who wont change dont have a cause, a better persona or a new perspective. They are lost. But who can say they really dont have a shot at all three reasons.
You think Boruto has potential cause youve only seen 2 episodes. Dont worry, it'll prove you wrong. But better yet, dont waste your time. Its total garbage. Just like Dragon Ball Super. If flashiness and explosions and turning your brain off is satisfying for you, you might like it.
Well it's more important to be internally consistent to me then be realistic. Although Naruto is not internally consistent. But that's not here nor there.
All I had to see was the dude say Naruto was a terrible piece of fiction to understand nothing he said had any weight to it. Clearly doesn't understand what makes a good story 😂
the way I think of Kaguya is that she shows that Naruto and Sasuke two opposites are unity as one then right after it has them spill and how Sasuke thinks he can save the world. or that it shows that Naruto and Sasuke had an understanding of each other but still eventually we butt heads with each other to show how is better. (i hope this makes sense) but I still do think she could have been written a bit better in naruto. but she has the perfect set up of the conflict in Boruto. which keeps a motif that the past generations have a big impact on the future ones.
Nah, this isn't A Song of Ice and Fire, Boruto/Naruto are ultimately hopeful fantasy stories. They'll kill off minor characters or sensei characters, but they're not gonna kill off a protagonist/deuteragonist
That's why Sarada should of been Karin's daughter cause Karin is an uzumaki and the uzumaki have closer relationship with the senju and later when Sarada is Hokage everything would've come to place.
Kagukya is supposed to be a divine wisdom Sophia archetype. said to be equivalent to the essence of God. She is the progenitor of chakra, like the divine feminine is the progenitor of wisdom and language. This is the forbidden fruit, that casts humanity from the garden. Kaguya giving chakra to shinobi was like Eve giving wisdom to Man. So the conflict is escalating to a new level beyond human shinobi. Once Ashura and Indra had their conflict essentially concluded, shinobi can ascend to Godhood, or like God-men hybrids. Like Naruto and Sasuke live as essentially demigods. The discussion in Boruto now revolves around living in a world of ‘god shinobi’ with incredible technology.
I think the second comment you showed that you said you have no counter for is a criticism that’s so inherently flawed on all premises and misunderstands everything so much that it’s nearly incoherent and is kind of hard to point out why it’s so wrong as a result. Saying Naruto cannot understand people who are different than him and then pointing to Neji is basically saying something is the opposite of what it was. Naruto got to Neji because he was the opposite of him but he showed Neji how they both still defied destiny. Naruto wasn’t a genius, he couldn’t even do a clone jutsu but he still managed to learn a technique like the shadow clone jutsu and use it to beat Neji, Neji on the other hand was a genius, we was supposed to be from the inferior branch but he was naturally a genius and far stronger than Hinata and Naruto acknowledges that Neji is a genius and he himself isn’t, which is what makes Neji see his hypocrisy and trust Naruto so much. The reason Neji is the first talk no jutsu is because he’s nothing like Naruto so Naruto can easily see his contradictions, he’s scared of Gaara because unlike with Neji he sees a reflection of himself and has to face that, he’s scared of the possibility that someone took a darker path than him and it made them stronger, he’s scared that he could have been like g Gaara. Complaining that Naruto sees reflections of himself in most villains is complaining about the point, the series does have ‘irredeemable’ villains that still have conviction (Hidan, Danzo, Kabuto) but Naruto isn’t the person to fight them because that’s not what his arc is. He’s complaining that Naruto should understand and get along with people and understand them despite there differences by saying Naruto always understands and relates to his villains despite there differences, all it essentially boils down to is saying everything is too optimistic, which is preference but it’s worded in a way that tries to make it sound like an inherent fact. You can’t say Naruto should have had to overcome differences more than complain that Naruto overcame differences with superficial similarities. I think the comment is an interesting analysis but the fact it claims everything is on a “lower standard of analysis” kind of annoys me. It’s true that the fact that Naruto converts people as quickly as he does is somewhat unrealistic, but the way it’s portrayed is due to pacing reasons and in the long form story takes much more time to flesh everything out than the time that passed in the world itself. If you would have preferred they rehabilitated the villains in a more long form manner, that’s reasonable, but it’s a preference not the “superior mode of analysis” I just spent half an hour responding to a 5 year old TH-cam comment being shown in a different video from the one it was posted one, I may be a little too passionate about things sometimes
There's a lot of argument in the comments on how Naruto never gives true solutions to other's source of pain, and that's why his talk no jutsu is bad, because it's based on simple feelings they share like loneliness and that's what he emphasizes with, and not deeper and complicated issues like clan assassination and such. But then what could Naruto do? A) Beat the shit out of characters without ever trying to understand them, which makes both villains and Naruto less human or B) Give actual solutions which would feel even more like it's pulled out of his ass because he lacks any experience to back them up, or he'd need to be a character that suffered everything others have, but then he wouldn't just be a completely different person, but his positive and naive attitude would be even more unrealistic having gone through so much shit This is why I don't agree with this stance on the issue. And this is why I agree with it: The idea of connecting with another person on simple feelings is the very basic concept of empathy: It means we feel the pain of others, even if only experienced a tiny bit of it. However, this doesn't line up well with the sudden moment of clarity. If you connect only through a small portion of a bigger issue, it shouldn't be able to trigger such a sudden change (unless the small shared experience of the whole is the source of the problem, or if someone is already in doubt about their chosen path like Obito), instead it should work as small seed planted, that will give the push for the person to slowly change themselves, but as most characters other than maybe Gaara die after the sudden moment of clarity, they don't have the chance to do it. So I feel like Kishimoto did it, to give these villains a sudden but one final chance at redemption.
Then the characters "connecting" with Naruto is nonsensical. Naruto has the least sad story compared to the other characters. For the most part of the series, he doesn't even know how his parents died, so his experience is just a plain orphan, he was "hated" by the people of his village, so an abused orphan. It is a sad story but definitely not on the level of other villains. He doesn't understand any of their pain, so the villain suddenly changing their views because he "relates" is irrelevant. For example, in the Obito arc, he didn't suffer as much as Obito, His parents died when he has no memory of them. And even after they died, they managed to slipped a few parts of them into the future saying to him that they died happily and that they died "trusting" him, it's a very happy "death" if you call that "death". Obito lost Rin to a war event that doesn't benefit anybody at all, a meaningless event. His only friend, his only love, he has no family as well, Kakashi is his friend for about 2 hours before he got crushed by the gigantic rock. So the only thing that he loves, Rin, got taken away from him for meaningless reason. That hits much harder. Naruto can preach about pain but if you look at it, he doesn't suffer at all. Most of his friends survived the war, and his acquaintances who died, seemingly all died for "noble" reasons, even in their dying moments, all passed to him this "will of fire" in a few cheesy last words. Seemingly in Naruto world, nobody died for meaningless cause and people's greed for power, they all died happily doing something to "protect". The plot armor factor is so obvious that it's close to being ridiculous The talk no jutsu would be fine if it makes sense, in order for it to make sense, what he talks needs to make sense, but it doesn't. One simple rebuttal to Naruto argument against Obito. Naruto: What would Rin think of you now, Obito? Obito: What she thinks wouldn't matter anymore, because she's not here. Naruto: Whatttttt? It might sound harsh but dying can just be dying, people die all the time without meaningful reason, and sometimes, things people called meaningful reasons are just ridiculous reasons. She died protecting the village? Now who is insane enough to put that idea into a kid? And why is that idea a good thing? That you must "die" to serve this higher cause that cares little for your safety? Shinobi must follow rules? But doing so, abandoning your comrade is acceptable? People choice are the result of what makes them, of what they were taught, a world that taught people like that, to Obito, is hell. Obito cared for Rin, but Rin is dead, the reason he says he shall be the savior that lead mankind out of pain is because he wants to stop all conflict now and forever more, same as Madara. That's why he cast the infinite Tsukuyomi. People who died stopping him casting that genjutsu are the same ones who killed Rin, because they're advocating for a world where human can still decide to act upon their own benefits, causing conflict and he can not accept that. If Naruto can't accept Obito vision, then fine, because Obito can not accept Naruto vision. Obito might picture himself as the Hokage, who leads people to happiness by working together, but that is a dream, it can not happen, it contradict natural law. Absolute equality can never create happiness, because there is limited resource. Peace on the surface is just cover for nasty stuff below it. Obito vision that he is the Hokage because that is what he will experience when he goes inside the Infinite Tsukuyomi, to remind himself that he can not loose control, that he must finish what he started, so that he and everybody left alive, and everybody after him can experience happiness. That is the correct philosophical answer. Not the "I want to be Hokage" nonsense, you won't want to be Hokage if everybody you care about is dead, but of course, due to Naruto plot armor, they're still alive, his friends still give him "hope", unlimited hope because they will never die. Hope is a child answer and Obito, Madara, Nagato should know that when faced with the talk no jutsu. One can only have hope if there's still something left to give him hope, if they lost everything, there is no hope. Naruto never lost anything, that's the ridiculous point. Because Naruto can never give out any convincing answer or argument, that's what makes the talk no jutsu bad. Because the "villain", are all heroes in their own stories, Kishimoto portrait those "villains" as heroes that gave up on the perfect ideology, but that is wrong, because the ideology itself is flawed. If there's such a thing as a perfect ideology, maybe Kishimoto should consider publish to some nation in the world.
The Uchiha's opposite "version" of the Will of Fire is called, rather appropriately, the Curse of Hatred. The same hatred Indra felt for his brother when Hagoromo picked Asura over him. The same hatred Madara felt for Hashirama when he picked Tobirama over him to be the next Hokage. And yes, the same hatred Sasuke felt for Naruto when Naruto did what he could not. All Uchiha inherit the Curse of Hatred just as all Senju inherit the Will of Fire. Well, almost all. Neither Itachi nor his father nor Shisui ever felt this curse. They all openly rejected it in favor of the Will of Fire. Which is why Sasuke's father did not want the coup to be bloody even when he felt it was necessary, and why both Itachi and Shisui saw the suppression of this coup as necessary. And when Sasuke chose to side with Naruto over Madara, he rejected that curse once and for all, and with Madara and Obito's death, so died the last of the Uchiha to inherit the curse. Sarada was born with the Will of Fire deeply instilled into her. This decision on the part of Sasuke symbolises Indra's ultimate redemption for betraying Hagoromo's path.
The will of fire had its own problems(DOnt want to get into it but I can if u reply) to and Sarada was born with the Will of Fire the same way Madara and Obito and Sasuke were born it was their experiences that changed them. The curse of Hatred is that you can't get the Sharing and even better the Mangekyo without feeling true hate and get lost in it.(Although Itachi,Shisui,Fugaku to some extent and later Sasuke Obito overcame that hate)
Also about Indra and Ashura I take it as this: Ashura was bestowed by both Indra and Ashuras power as in he had power through cooperation and the Sage bestowed all the power onto him(This did not work).
Madara had both Indra and Ashuras power by having senju cells in him and by uniting the world under one banner(cooperation) to survive a big threat but by also ruling alone(This did not work).
When either path has too much power balance can not be achieved and so the conflict continues. The sage shared equal power between Sasuke and Naruto and they were able to reach a compromise Sasuke through the darkness and alone and Naruto through the light and cooperation only when these two forces act together and through balance can they achieve peace so Hagoromos Path was not correct or Ashuras it was both in conjunction
Itachi didn’t have the curse of hatred, he had the will of fire
@@Edu697 can you plz get into the problems of the will of fire? I'd really like to know
@GLM exactly, I've been arguing that for as long as I can remember but ppl act like the "will of fire" doesn't have its own set of problems. Heck, they'll even go as far as justifying Itachi's gen0cide, disgusting to say the least!
Will of fire ideology cause more darkness just like madara said. The darkness that konoha had third hokage, danzo, two elder ,itachi a blind dog of evil konoha. For these people it is not people that live in konoha that makes konoha but the high level of konoha that why white fang had to die as he could become a high level that hokage due to him being a war hero a power full stronger than third hokage students. All hokage have connection to each other. A person can only become hokage through connection. Itachi followed the corrupted evil people to become evil a servant of will of fire. Hashirama wanted peace it didn't happen, children were sent to war . War become form far between clan to village. A person who cannot understand darkness of shinobi system or questions it can never change that world. What I like about sasuke is that he questions the evil system of village, damiyo and will of fire even though he in the end is brainwashed to become the dog of konoha by naruto six path brainwashing jutsu. Peace was never achieved. Grand unification was the only way to achieve peace and to kill all kage ,damiyo, high level elder of each village and all Nobel and remove old government unification of the world is necessary as why should a world having same language, culture, power be devided.
An interesting Orochimaru line: That one reason he and Sasuke were left alive is because someday there will people who can’t be changed by Naruto’s philosophy.
Let's be real here, nobody can kill Orochimaru (or Sasuke for that matter)
@@rewrose2838 Voldemort would be envious of that snake-loving ninja-scientist.
@Kace Gunnar why?
guys don't listen to this kace gunnar nigga. instaportal is a scam. besides, their account was just created last month. it's a bot account
@Kace Gunnar ur right no one gives a shit
To me, Kaguya serves as the culmination of Indra's philosophy of using chakra to increase one's own strength rather than using it to understand one another. By eating the fruit of the god tree, she used it's chakra in order to stop all wars, and finally bring about peace. However, some people began to fear her power, with some even revering her as a demon, and as a result she became paranoid of people trying to steal her chakra. She also feared the rest of the Otsutsuki clan, as she feared that they would have stolen her chakra if they were to find her. This fear was only amplified when her two children inherited her chakra, and as a result, she became so paranoid she cast the infinite tsukuyomi to build an army of White Zetsu and merged with the god tree in order to reclaim what she believed was hers.
By not sharing her chakra, she was only capable of trusting herself, and was unable to understand other people, even going as far as having to manifest her will into Black Zetsu and entrusting him with reviving her should she fail, rather than trusting anyone else to do it. If she had shared her chakra, she would have been able to quell the people's doubts about her, and would have realized that not everyone feared her. She may have potentially even been able to convince them to help her with the looming Otsutsuki threat, rather than casting the infinite tsukuyomi on them an turning them into White Zetsu.
She also shows how Sasuke would have ended up had he succeeded in killing Naruto at the valley of the end. He would have become paranoid despite all the power he obtained, over not only the allied shinobi forces, but also the other Ootsusuki's that Kaguya feared, and probably would have resorted to extreme measures to ensure that he could keep his power to himself, rather than entrusting it to someone else. He even admits to Naruto he would resort to finding a way to become immortal so that he wouldn't have to share his chakra, showing that he had already started to become paranoid like Kaguya.
Sorry for posting this comment again, I just really want you to see it.
I know I’m a little late but here’s my thoughts, specifically about Obito and his “sudden moment of clarity”. Obito, during the ENTIRE fight he had with Naruto was constantly arguing with him to see what makes him tick. He wanted to change Naruto into becoming a villain, thus proving his own life choices. When Naruto kept coming back at him and refusing to turn, Obito got more and more nervous and angry. The line that makes this clear is when Madara points out that Naruto seems to make Obito uneasy. The climax of there ideals was Narutos conversation with Juubito (Obito when he was the Jinchuriki of the ten tails). This is when Naruto and Obito are able to have a deep and intimate conversation about who’s right and who’s wrong, using the title of Hokage as an anchor for both to understand where the other is coming from. This led Obito to turning good. I could’ve gone into more detail but I didn’t want to make this too long
Naruto was never the underdog(as far as combat). In episode 6 its shown that he has sped up healing thanks to kurama and it is also stated in that arc that he has a higher level of chakra than most.
That arc also shows BOTH NARUTO AND SASUKE struggling to climb the tree with their chakra. This shows that the class clown and the prodigy both had to work hard and train.
Naruto is an outcast, not an underdog. The only reason he was underestimated by everyone in the chunin exams is because everyone in konoha just knew him as the lazy prankster. All he needed was that push that iruka and kakashi gave him to become an adequate ninja.
Jlong908 Wrong, he was an underdog in the very beginning.
You even prove this when you say he struggled to climb the tree with chakra. Naruto took a very long time to become a competent ninja which is why having fast regeneration and more chakra than most doesn't mean he wasn't an underdog.
Boredfan Gerrude Sasuke also struggled with that tree so by your logic that must mean sasuke was also an underdog.
Like i said in my comment, naruto only sucked at jutsu because he goofed off instead of working hard like EVERY ninja is supposed to.
Assume only took it seriously because Naruto was there making progress because of his competitive feelings. And no, Naruto struggled because he's dumb and had Kurama's chakra mixed with his which made it harder. But when he had a serious situation he proved himself a great ninja.
The reason he was a dunce in the first place is because no one wanted to be his sensei since he was a Jinchuriki. Hell, Kakashi straight up ignored Naruto to go train Sasuke, and Naruto was lucky enough to run into Jiraiya. Sasuke always had people willing to teach him and that's why he was a genius while Naruto didn't have those opportunities. Yet, let's look at the few opportunities he had. When Kakashi finally decided to train Naruto for the first time what happened? Naruto developed the Rasenshuriken, an S-class forbidden jutsu. Naruto trains with the toads for a week and becomes a better sage than Jiraiya.
Sasuke in a way represented the rich kid who is able to get in a good school easily because while he has plenty of talent, he also has tons of opportunity to develop that talent originally through his father and brother and then later on with Kakashi. Naruto in a way is the representation of someone born in the ghetto or whatever you want to call being born poor. Someone can have all the latent talent in the world but because of their circumstances in life don't have the opportunity to develop- that talent.
Dude all of your videos have been amazing and out of everyone out there, who just focus on the fights and action. I feel you truly get Naruto, its characters, its world, its ideals, and it messages. Even its sequel series you nailed.
You are an amazing Narutuber, Believe it
yeah people seem to only hate on the war arc cause the fights were not that great ..the point of that arc is to show how bad fighting is so why would kishi focus on great fights when he clearly wants the message of peace to shine through?..he doesn't want to glorify fighting...otherwise hes teaching kids that fighting is wonderful...it shines through better in the anime cause you know acting music movement helps convey his messages better than stand still panel pictures ever could...thats what anime is for to really hammer in the message that may be vague in the manga..fans thought he made he war arc to be some epic fight manga finale...thats their expectations fault...if you actually paid attention since the pain vs jiraya fight the show cared more about ideals messages themes narrative than actual battles...it was clear the war was going the philosophical route...and thats ok
A simple counterargument to the quote you posted from lifefailout000 is that Naruto was finding basic ideas from which to empathize with his enemies. The reason there being parallels to him in various ways is because the simple similarities are what make them able to understand each other. Gaara felt constantly alone, he had to show Gaara that he DID understand the pain of loneliness. He had to show Neji that even the most unseeming opponent can quickly become too powerful to handle. The reason there are these constant parallels and why Naruto is constantly trying to use his own experiences is because many of the enemies in the show assume that there's no possible way for someone else to know how they feel.
Naruto giving his little speeches, as much as it can be argued are him imparting his will (of fire) onto his enemies, effectively serve as the dividing line between him and them; Naruto has faced many of the same pains that they have and yet never went down the same path that they did. Where they had failed to learn, he had to show them that their lives could have been entirely different if not for a decision that they had made in anger years before and stubbornly stuck to. Many of these people never considered the alternatives, and had to see that there WERE still some out there.
*Christian Gillespie*
Naruto will never parallel his enemies in any meaningful way. His "empathy" falls short of significance when his pains are akin to that of an angsty teen comparatively.
@@psnfailout000 how is his views angsty teenager?
Taurus Frederick
His empathetic views generally have him attempt to compare his own trials and tribulations to that of other people. This wouldn’t be a bad thing if he realized that he actually lived an extremely privileged lifestyle compared to people like Gaara, Sasuke, and Neji. Naruto’s not an angsty person per se, but he appeals to his past angst in his infamous Talk no Jutsu speeches way too much. It’s always been a plot device ripe for abuse for him, always making everything about him.
@@psnfailout000 true naruto wasnt as tortured in knowing how his parents for him but for all he knew naruto parents hated him enough to leave him if you rember naruto was raising himself since he was 5 and was in love with a girl who practically abused him as a kid as well as attempted to make friends with his enemies haku and zabuza
Taurus Frederick
Let’s say all of that is true (it isn’t, particularly the Sakura part). Try comparing all of that with assassination attempts (Gaara), clan genocide (Sasuke), and slavery (Neji). Add Naruto’s prophetic privileges among other shit, and the dude’s practically been living the good life. And yet Naruto pretends he can relate to these people on such a deep level.
I actually have no problems with Naruto’s parallels with Haku. It offered a nice message on how shinobi aren’t tools. He didn’t even need to talk about himself when reprimanding Zabuza, iirc.
never thought of naruto to be this complex and deep
Himali Manthreeratna it is but people hate on it to look cool
Himali Manthreeratna It was simple but the writer wanted it to be but ended up making it complicated
@@yamuna6154 but the themes and "deep" concepts talked about in this series goes as far back as the fight with Zabuza. Even as far back as the first chapter if you count setup.
i think my favorite part of the naruto fandom is how mad some of them get over the pairs in a series with so much going on and the fact in the manga the romance was not at focused on...in fact skipped over really...why is it people focus on that first when so much other stuff happened?...its kinda hilarious...the manga series barley focused on or cared about romance..and how mad it makes people to see how happy naruto is with someone not named sakura and they try to claim its out of character and out of pitty and due to the fans and staff that naruto lost his supposed dream girl for hinata and inside hes dead and all this nonsense when I see a fully happy grown man with his life..hes go the family he always wanted their loving and hes hokage which does put stress on him as the village is his family now too but he created a semi peace for them to live in which is just so beautiful as a message ..he doesn't have to be on guard all the time and hes beloved worldwide....what more can you want?..it turned out well for him..sometimes what we want is not the best thing for us...we don't realize it until we get what we needed and deserved
@Bouya You are just the kind of preson that hates on Naruto to look cool😂😂. People who say "then I grew up" are the biggest idiots of all time like seriously.
oh, for the commenter at 5:00, the rebuttal is simple. Whether Naruto's "talk no jutsu" is effective is not about whether Naruto perfectly empathizes with their situation. It's that he understands it well enough for the other person (Neji, Gaara, Nagato, etc) to relate with what he's saying and for them to connect despite their differences. This is *literally exactly what Jiraiya was shooting for*. Does Gaara think suddenly "oh crap, this Naruto kid's trauma is EXACTLY THE SAME AS MINE, I'd better hurry up and change my worldview!" No, lol. Like, wut?
For the second point, can we not pretend that every antagonist gets converted to the "religion of Narutoism"? Just list them off, you'll see some do, some don't. Some just get brutally executed (Kakuzu), some are merely defeated and disposed of (Mizuki), some get defeated and don't actually change their worldview until influenced by later events (Neji), some straight up defeat Naruto (Deidara) or use him for some greater purpose of their own (Itachi), some literally just see him as crazy and take advantage of him (the Rock ninja girl who he lets beat him up -- remember these are "antagonists," not "villains"), some are forced to concede simply because he overpowers them and not because of anything he says (Raikage) ......
did that commenter actually watch Naruto recently or are they just going off of some faint impression from when they were younger? Oh well lol
Then the characters "connecting" with Naruto is nonsensical. Naruto has the least sad story compared to the other characters. For the most part of the series, he doesn't even know how his parents died, so his experience is just a plain orphan, he was "hated" by the people of his village, so an abused orphan. It is a sad story but definitely not on the level of other villains.
He doesn't understand any of their pain, so the villain suddenly changing their views because he "relates" is irrelevant. For example, in the Obito arc, he didn't suffer as much as Obito, His parents died when he has no memory of them. And even after they died, they managed to slipped a few parts of them into the future saying to him that they died happily and that they died "trusting" him, it's a very happy "death" if you call that "death".
Obito lost Rin to a war event that doesn't benefit anybody at all, a meaningless event. His only friend, his only love, he has no family as well, Kakashi is his friend for about 2 hours before he got crushed by the gigantic rock. So the only thing that he loves, Rin, got taken away from him for meaningless reason. That hits much harder.
Naruto can preach about pain but if you look at it, he doesn't suffer at all. Most of his friends survived the war, and his acquaintances who died, seemingly all died for "noble" reasons, even in their dying moments, all passed to him this "will of fire" in a few cheesy last words. Seemingly in Naruto world, nobody died for meaningless cause and people's greed for power, they all died happily doing something to "protect".
The plot armor factor is so obvious that it's close to being ridiculous
The talk no jutsu would be fine if it makes sense, in order for it to make sense, what he talks needs to make sense, but it doesn't.
One simple rebuttal to Naruto argument against Obito.
Naruto: What would Rin think of you now, Obito?
Obito: What she thinks wouldn't matter anymore, because she's not here.
Naruto: Whatttttt?
It might sound harsh but dying can just be dying, people die all the time without meaningful reason, and sometimes, things people called meaningful reasons are just ridiculous reasons. She died protecting the village? Now who is insane enough to put that idea into a kid? And why is that idea a good thing? That you must "die" to serve this higher cause that cares little for your safety? Shinobi must follow rules? But doing so, abandoning your comrade is acceptable? People choice are the result of what makes them, of what they were taught, a world that taught people like that, to Obito, is hell.
Obito cared for Rin, but Rin is dead, the reason he says he shall be the savior that lead mankind out of pain is because he wants to stop all conflict now and forever more, same as Madara. That's why he cast the infinite Tsukuyomi. People who died stopping him casting that genjutsu are the same ones who killed Rin, because they're advocating for a world where human can still decide to act upon their own benefits, causing conflict and he can not accept that.
If Naruto can't accept Obito vision, then fine, because Obito can not accept Naruto vision. Obito might picture himself as the Hokage, who leads people to happiness by working together, but that is a dream, it can not happen, it contradict natural law. Absolute equality can never create happiness, because there is limited resource. Peace on the surface is just cover for nasty stuff below it. Obito vision that he is the Hokage because that is what he will experience when he goes inside the Infinite Tsukuyomi, to remind himself that he can not loose control, that he must finish what he started, so that he and everybody left alive, and everybody after him can experience happiness.
That is the correct philosophical answer. Not the "I want to be Hokage" nonsense, you won't want to be Hokage if everybody you care about is dead, but of course, due to Naruto plot armor, they're still alive, his friends still give him "hope", unlimited hope because they will never die.
Hope is a child answer and Obito, Madara, Nagato should know that when faced with the talk no jutsu. One can only have hope if there's still something left to give him hope, if they lost everything, there is no hope. Naruto never lost anything, that's the ridiculous point.
@@khoile9807 bruh you sound like you need some talk no jutsu. We’re not that different, you and I.
I totally agree that the story of Naruto doesn't have to be realistic. I guess my problem, after growing up on the philosophy in Naruto of never give up, push yourself to the brink, etc that kind of thinking has created very unhealthy situations in my own life because it can create a refusal to be weak or to think realistically. Which Naruto does deal with as a series I mean lots of shinobi call Naruto out on this and he has to learn to beore mature and discerning over time, but none of that took place in 2004 when 10 year old impressionable me was watching. I think Naruto was a formative show for a lot of people who were into anime in the 2000s, so I wish at least in part 1 that it wouldn't have been so over idealistic. But, at the same time plenty of people could have interpreted this message very differently from me so I don't really know.
Really good vids dude I'm so glad I found a channel that overanalyzes Naruto the way I constantly do in my daily life. 😂
It’s pretentious and too many people think it’s complex and deep
On Madara,
He, Kaguya, and Orochimaru represent a different path from Indra and Ashura. Sasuke/Indra represent loneliness as a method of confronting the despair caused by dealing with humanity. Kaguya, Madara, and Orochimaru have no humanity left. For Kaguya, humanity is a resource to be harvested. For Madara, humanity is a problem to be removed. For Orochimaru, Humanity is a subject to experiment with. This is different from Sasuke who even while training with Orochimaru holds on to his humanity. He is shown defeating several ninja without killing them even though he could. He holds on to his connection with Itachi once he realizes the truth. Naruto as a show never gives these characters redemption. It is suggested even in Boruto that Orochimaru simply recognizes that he cannot challenge Naruto or Sasuke and that is the sole reason he does not revert to old ways. At the end of the War arc Sasuke does not want to control or destroy humanity as a whole, simply give them a common enemy to put an end to strife.
I disagree that the "Will of Senju" ends with Sarada. It ended with Itachi. At this point, the Uchiha clan and Madara's philosophy are history, dead. Sarada is less an Uchiha and more an inheritor of the "Will of Senju": she aspires to be like Naruto (the Seventh Hokage), is a student of Konohamaru (grandson of Third, likely successor to the Seventh), and her mother inherited the secret Jutsu of the Fifth. Sasuke himself successfully cut his bond with the Uchiha clan by confronting Itachi, then Madara and Obito. By leaving Sasuke as the lone survivor, Itachi essentially exiled Sasuke from the clan and succeeded. Sasuke is an Uchiha in name alone. For all intents and purposes, once his character arch is over, Sasuke is more Senju than Uchiha. Itachi and Shisui who had "the wisdom of the Hokage" tipped the balance into the Senju camp. By eliminating the Uchiha, there is no longer the possibility for the Uchiha to overcome the Senju nepotism: they no longer exist; they lost.
Unfalsifiable comment.
Boruto and Sarada are the people that carry an after effect of both the Will of Senju and Will of the Uchiha in a rather poetic fashion, I think it's essentially turned into something else at this point a compromise a combination of both albeit both of them carry it in different ways Boruto carries in the way of wanting to Inherit the type of Shinobi Sasuke has become where as Sarada carries it as a stepping stone of the people before her entirely and thus why she wants to become Hokage.
Sasuke will forever be more of an Uchiha than Senju. Therefore your statement is false.
@@painful8069 any supporting arguments for this?
I agree and disagree, I believe sauske is neither uchiha or senju if anything he is a byproduct of both clans ideals. A true compromise in the form of, he protects the village and the world( ashura/senju’s will) but he does it all by himself and alone with his own power(Indra/uchiha’s will).
In regards to lifefailout's comments on the flaws in naruto's story telling, One of the main ways in which empathy works is in attaching your past emotions and experiences to someone else's current situation (however dissimilar) and seeing how you might feel in their shoes. I don't remember where the quote comes from but the sentiment the deeper felt something is, the more universal, comes to mind. I don"t think talk no jutsu is flawed simply because naruto did not share the exact same experiences as Neji and Gara etc. Ultimately, it all comes down to perspective. The feeling of loneliness that Gara experience may be worse than narutos because of the violence surrounding it, but that shouldn't mean that it is impossible for naruto to relate.
*robertwilsong*
I agree that it comes down to perspective. I just wanted to convey how Naruto's perspective is undermined by experiences that cannot be properly projected onto his enemies. Since Talk no Jutsu is essentially a verbal Miracle Machine, I would consider this to be a major flaw.
These videos have been great, but I noticed that they highlight one of the biggest problems with the Naruto series in general: There is WAY too much focus placed on Naruto and Sasuke, and all of the side characters suffer greatly for it. Everything that happened in the series was either an experience or a lesson for one of them, even if the situation did not involve them in any way. Every time I go back to the chuunin exams, I'm reminded of how much potential was lost.
I mean.. the series is literally called Naruto not "The Adventures of the Leaf village ninja"
No one gives a shit about Tenten , she is a very uninteresting character.
Neji's character arc / book closed with the Naruto v Neji fight.
Lee is certainly lost potential
Shino and Kiba too are not as interesting as Lee , but could have been utilized a bit better
Ino was used well , in the Hidan Kakuzu arc to and the War , using her jutsu to communicate with the alliance and relay information in place of her dad.
We lost 2-3 Konoha characters but look at what we gained , we gained even stronger , deeper and better characters who got good attention / the proper attention needed in Shippuden for their development.
And that's the way it should be. One of the main issues in One Piece, another major WSJ shonen is that after the time-skip, a lot of unnecessary characters were introduced leading to bloated arcs and lack of screentime on the actual Straw Hats.
@@ikiliousdasylouiyasbdetyw9124 Isn't that something One Piece is praised for? It's world building and how those new characters introduce you to the concept of the new world? The 7 warlords for example?
@@Mufflin Worldbuilding is fine but the side characters take away from the actual crew and make the arcs longer than they need to be. And I'm not talking about the Shichibukai. I'm talking about Hyogoro, the boring Scabbards, Onimaru, the giants in Punk Hazard, etc
Naruto : great anime ( I just love it despite its flaws.
Fanbase: worst cancer I have ever seen ( Along with MHA fanbase)
Either every fanbase is cancer or none of them are. There's always going to be that negative part of any fandom that stands out above the rest, so the whole "the fanbase is toxic" statement doesn't really mean much.
arsam kiani is MHA that bad I don’t follow the manga anymore and the anime is on hold since they moved into dorms
Keep watching, it gets better.
You clearly haven't seen the Dragon Ball Z fan base.
@@bijuutamer729 that show is just bad
I only read the Boruto manga, but you have the paradoxical hypocrisy of "Tools vs. Hard Work" that can be touched and debated. Naruto's era was all about hard work and effort to reaching new heights.
Now Boruto's era takes the easy road by characters becoming more reliant on using ninja tools to have access to stronger techniques. Which is something that traditional ninjas do. Boruto was expelled from the Chunin exams for using a weapon to boost his techniques when that is something that ninjas need to use to survive in combat. Then Naruto had scolded Boruto for cutting corners for the exams and not trusting his own abilities.
The question of who was in the right and wrong between Boruto and Naruto could be discussed to high heaven. Both of them can be seen right and wrong even if Boruto was painted in the bad light here.
I think it needs to be pointed out that Naruto was never against the use of tools. He was never anti-technology or old-school. This is proved by the fact that he got Katasuke to build him what is essentially a Preta Path arm. What Naruto is against is the use of shortcuts in the exams, because that is an exhibit of your own abilities, just like in real life. We don't let kindergarten kids use calculators because they need to learn their basics.
Well he got scolded because the whole point of the exams is to do your best under your own power. The scientific ninja tool clearly gave Boruto an edge the other competitors didn't have and wasn't his own power. Boruto even knew going in that he was cheating, hated doing it, and regretted it afterwards and made apologies after getting back home.
"expelled... for using a weapon to boost his techniques" It's not like Sage mode which also boosts attacks, no these were techniques that he did not know or could not do. AFAIK It doesnt add to their attack, it is an attack on its own sealed inside a scroll. No hand signs were used, remember? IIRC it had nature transformations that Boruto did not know (fire) and technique mastery he absolutely did not have (shuriken-jutsu). It might have supplemented the Rasengan but I'm not sure how.
"that is something that ninjas need to use to survive in combat" No, that is something *1 ninja* used to *excel* in combat, Konohamaru excluded.
"Naruto had scolded Boruto for... not trusting his own abilities." No, up until the parts where he uses the tool Boruto was using his abilities just fine. The problem was that his abilities weren't good enough and instead of doing his best and failing he opted to cheat instead. It's not right and wrong, it's wrong and understandable but still wrong.
The point of the exam is to show how good the Genin themselves are, not how good the equipment is. Kunai and the like are allowed because they require proficiency to be used effectively. The Gauntlet entirely removes that prerequisite. They wont grow as much if they use these as a crutch. Its like Goku and Vegeta not using SSJ when training on Beerus' world.
Yet boruto got given a alien power that his sister didn’t get convenient right
Oh boi I’m here before I was even notified by youtube
•WhereDidYouGohan • me too
NinjaWarrior even better
•WhereDidYouGohan • guffa u
•WhereDidYouGohan • your profile pic is gold
Drag Gamer thank you very much
in star wars Darth Vader saved his son and killed the emperor, costing him his own life.
its a very touching scene and a great turn of events, more than the hero overpowering the villain, its the good in those people taking the upper hand over the darkness.
for Luke and us in this moment his father really becamse his father again, after he was swallowed up by hatred and lust for power so long.
it doesnt make his past actions forgotten or redeem him before everyone, but on an emotional level for Luke that doesnt matter at all.
it wouldve been off would cities around the universe erect statues in darth vaders image to praise him for destreying the emperor, because he really wasnt the hero there.
Obito to me is the same, also luckily both these characters didnt survive. if they did, I imagine they wouldve been imprisoned, killed or exiled to a remote planet somewhere.
narratively its been for the best to kill them there, let their final action be heroic and motivated towards saving our hero, so that their memoriam can be one of redemption and triumph of good.
I'm honored you would pick my comment, I now regret not having expressed myself more clearly and concisely. At any rate you stated something along the lines of realism not being terribly important to you which is a perfectly fair opinion but I though it might be worthwhile to give mine.
My position towards realism in art only requires it remain true to human nature. I have no problem with unrealistic abilities, magic, physical attributes, settings etc but when characters stop acting like human beings I start having problems. After all a major purpose of art is to come to a deeper understanding of ourselves and the human condition something which can only really be accomplished by studying ourselves through characters which mirror us (at least in the context of narrative driven works). Now I would never go so far as to say that characters should act predictably but their actions should be understandable for a character given their situation.
Moreover I think I would be far more willing to forgive Naruto's lack of realism in its characters if it were to actually do something meaningful with that fact, the reality of the series however is that the thematicism of most character redemptions is pretty shallow and primarily serve only as convenient plot devices.
Additionally even from a practical writing standpoint it is far easier to become engaged with a story whose characters are relatable which practically requires they think and act in relatable ways i.e. like human beings. So as a writer even if your only intention is to entertain your audience and you have nothing deeper to say it is still wise to write realistic characters with which your audience can relate.
Meh, I actually find the redemptions pretty interesting given the context of their turning points. It's not just Naruto going "hey, stop being an antagonist k thx bye", we always ends up seeing very meaningful discussions and introspection about the antagonist's life, what led them to this point and how they can find a way to get back in touch with the people they once were. The main point of those redemptions being to show that nobody is too far from change unless you're just not willing to make that decision (whether or not that's a shallow theme is mostly subjective so I don't care about arguing against that). I'm not really sure where the argument of the characters not acting in a way that makes sense with their motivations comes into play.
Never read through any of the redemptions in Naruto and thought it was breaking my suspension of disbelief because of how little it makes sense for the character to be changing their mind. It definitely feels more like people misinterpreting the characters more then the characters being the actual problem here.
@@SuperHamachiBrother1 And yet, it happened to most villains in Naruto. It doesn't matter what is the purpose of a redemption. If its botched, people will criticize it. What I'm seeing here is excuse after excuse thrown out, and criticism deflected because "you don't understand what the author meant, so your opinion doesn't matter". Also, emphasis on "meaningful discussions and introspection on a antagonist's life". That's highly subjective, especially when characters previous actions don't add up. Like how Itachi was always doing this for his brother, despite the horrible atrocities he committed. He did it for the "greater good", but doesn't kill his brother out of kindness? The same brother who later wants to destroy what Itachi protected. This symbolism would have been great, but you're forgetting an important aspect, the execution. It was poorly executed, so it fell flat.
If all along, it's because people didn't understand the characters, then doesn't that speak more about the writing itself being poorly done? It could be, it could be not. What I don't understand, is that it's always 100% because people don't understand, then the writing being bad. Always giving the author the benefit of the doubt, like his story is somehow flawless meaning characters acting a certain way that makes no sense in context means there MUST be logical explanation.
Wyllowisp Which characters do you feel were unjustifiably talk no justu’d?
@Agent Ombraura the story tells us nothing first of all, the fact that it is told through unrealistic characters is merely the nail in the coffin. as to how I know they are unrealistic perhaps a better way to phrase myself is to say they are not indicative nor introspective of human nature nor is that nature expressed impressionistically. I'm speaking in generalities of course. it is painfully clear that they are fantasy characters created to act in whatever way is most convenient to suit the writers needs in any given moment. character motivations, development and diegetic consistency are treated as annoyances to be swept aside, that is when they are considered at all.
"It isn't realistic for someone to change in such a short time." But that is false, it happens all the time. Age, sex, ethnicity and background aren't even a factor.
You don't know what you are talking about, EVERYONE has severely flawed idealogies. And that isn't even what I was talking about, I meant in other ways due to trauma!
@Nameless Fag You don't know anyone like that? Change is usually a slow process, but it can happen quickly too.
Think of people you know who have changed quickly.
It's more realistic if they're about to die or just got their butt handed to them or are put in very drastic circumstances.
@Nameless Fag
Yes, but the point of Naruto in showing these characters have them at such a point that their intentions aren't necessarily wrong, teetering already on the point of change. The ideologies in Naruto are twisted due to the cruelties of the ninja world and the tragedies of characters' pasts. Itachi was always a loving character who worked for his village and brother. Pain really just wanted peace. Obito wanted an end to suffering. It's not as if they were bent on destroying the world and then suddenly wanted to protect it, it was always there. It was the methods they wanted to use that were messed up.
It happens all the time because there's a lot of people in the world, but it is not common. At all
No one changes that quick they start to think differently and eventually change
On the whole realism point you trying to make. Honestly at that point if anyone dislikes naruto for that reason it all boils down to a matter of personal taste and what each of us personally values in a story. You can never be truly 100% objective in narrative analysis. Individual pieces can be broken apart and argued but at the end of the day if it doesn’t match your personal taste you’re not gonna like it. And that’s totally fine, everyone is different after all.
Thank you for this video,and whole hipocrisy triology, it was interesting and made me view naruto from completely different perspective...and i couldn't agree more about the thing you mentioned at the end.
People who watched Naruto for a couple of years on a weekly basis became really pasionate and addicted fans,but can't really grasp integrity of the entire series until they rewatch it...maybe i will...someday...maybe with my kids so i have enough time to forget naruto and be excited about watching it again(although currently
i'm still 21😂 and don't plan on having them for at least 10years ).
Some of those comments....When you try to use "realism" as a factor in anime, that's an automatic L. It's not even like some comic books where their universe is a cross between ours and they have superpower individuals living amongst us of how we actually operate in our universe. Animes are always outlandish in terms of not just power but interaction between people. To even say "well they don't have counseling sessions or anything". STOP. JUST STOP. One of the grandfathers for most people in anime was the dragonball series and they literally had the protagonist beat people and they would become part of the team just because.
+streetdzine Internal logical is what is meant by realism. Narutards need to learn to steelman their opponents.
Realism sucks.
REALISM IS SUBJECTIVE
Anime like all media borrows from reality, but even at that it’s a persons imperfect perspective of reality.
All media, anime included is realistic but at the same time FICTION. Which means it also goes against reality.
If you want reality read books about war, watch documentaries and never touch tv ever again. Cause it’s all not real or realistic.
in response to the commenters mentioned in the video:
1) Yes, Naruto indeed has to project pretty hard to successfully Talk no Jutsu various "villains" into his own worldview. However, that would be the case for all of us. Simply because it is impossible to experience anything exactly as someone else did. Yes, Naruto does not have the background to replicate Neji's or Gaara's predicament. Yes, Naruto doesn't even come close to Nagato's loses. However, he is able to feel their misfortune. Refer to how Naruto teaches Konohamaru the Rasengan. Yes, that's borderline clinically retarded, but he does have this "gut feeling", this empathy, that allows him to experience whatever his friend/foe is feeling based only on the emotions they have shown. And as much as it is a pretty "Mary Sue" trait, it does fit Naruto pretty well within the story. And that's actually how human beings interact. Without having the experience of a refugee from a war-torn country you're able to sympathize with them. Or vice versa, you're able to understand a threat from a terrorussian even without having them to invade *your* country. It's very humane to be empathetic and understand things on an emotional rather than logical level.
2) While sudden "moments of clarity" can look unreal in a vacuum, they do make sense in the context of Naruto's opponents. All of Naruto's villains/antagonists are good in nature from the start (bar Mizuki, who's a fucking nobody, to begin with, Madara, who's a man with a well-formed worldview and Kaguya, who's the best villain in manga history xD). What they really look for is affirmation/rebuttal from an external source to act upon. Neji: preaches about destiny and fatalism, yet challenges it at every step possible. Gaara: hates anything alive, yet looks for love and acceptance. Nagato: disillusioned in Jiraya's idealistic view, yet tries to create peace just how his sensei told him. They all know they're wrong and in Naruto, they find that external confirmation they're looking for.
3) When Naruto redeems a villain/antagonist he does not "wash away" their sins. He merely implies, that whatever they've done in the past is irrelevant to what they can to in the future. And while that's a pretty simplistic/naive worldview, there's a certain charm to it. As in "the Past is not here to remind the Present what it should be in the Future...". The idea that anyone and everyone is redeemable is very optimistic and foolish, but that's the Naruto we know and it fits him well.
4) Talk no Jutsu in off itself is kinda awkward if we would put it in real life. Or for example, putler. No matter what you say, his imperial ambitions would still get the best of him. However, anime is anime. It's a cultural medium. It's supposed to be fictional, and Talk no Jutsu is just fine in the fictional world. It conveys a very important idea to the viewer - words before fists. Something we all should listen to.
5) Naruto does have its shortcomings (as in what exactly makes Sasuke loveable? He's a jock douchebag that cares for nobody, etc.). Sometimes the ideas are way too simplistic. Sometimes the main hero is downright a Mary Sue - the fight against Kakuzu is way too easy in my opinion. Someone who gave Hashirama a hard time shouldn't have gone down in a single jutsu, no matter how powerful it is. And don't even get me started on the technical side of things :D However, I would say that "Naruto" really is one of the best anime in existence simply due to the core values and ideas it conveys in very simple forms. Friends are important. Losses happen and you should accept that. Hatred only breeds more hatred. True victory comes from the knowledge of oneself, not the mastery over a thousand weapons, etc.
*Volodymyr Postizhenko*
Ooooh, do I have qualms with you, strawmanner #3542. Lol. Naw, but real talk, I disagree *wildly,* buuut I see where you're coming from. Some of the simpler ideas of camaraderie and whatnot make sense even in Naruto.
why does this only have 7 likes?
@@psnfailout000 Like what, for example. You think you couldn't be Talk no Jutsu'ed cause you're a special case? XD
*Volodymyr Postizhenko*
The qualms are your strawman arguments. Those can be excused, however, as you aren't the first. I don't see how a plot device affecting me in real life should matter, but the answer is no. Not because I'm a special case, but because I'm not a conformist sheep like everyone in Naruto. Because I'm *not* a special case, unironically.
naruto's number one fanboy 21
Well, point number 3 specifically seems to think I believe that the villains’ sins were just washed away. I said no such thing. The other points are essentially concessions that try to use the “it works in fiction/Naruto’s world” shtick. It’s not a new argument.
This is assuming the guy’s addressing _my_ arguments, of course. He may be referring to someone else.
My two cents: "Don't let Boruto taint Madara by including him into such a series, use Kaguya instead! XD".
not sarcastic, this just what I was feeling when you were talking about Madara being brought into Boruto.
i think it is more that Madar s story is done wile Kaguya s is barely touched she is a blank canvas
You don't have to listen to those people complaining that a villain changing their ideology is "unrealistic". Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I dunno. But you can't make art photo-realistic or else you abandon the creativity and romanticism.
I don't even think it's unrealistic. There's a saying: If you scratch the surface of a cynic, you'll find a disappointed idealist.
The reason Naruto was able to change the ideology of Pain and Obito is because they still wanted to believe in their original ideals. When they asserted their twisted/cynical beliefs, I saw it as, deep down, a cry for help.
They tested Naruto's resolve because deep down inside, they wanted him to prove them wrong. Some small part of them were seeking the answer from him that they could not find themselves.
Neji was not right. He said there was nothin you could do to change or effect your destiny and that was proven wrong by Naruto. The argument that Neji was right would hold some water had he not said, "once a loser always a loser".
Madara won, he created a world with no war. The vilages united against him, so technically he achieved his dream, even if he did so using another method. That is what i love about this character. Even when he loses, he wins.
That's a good point, but Hashirama's dream was to pass on the will of fire to future generations so that they can surpass what his generation had done. And that culminates with Naruto's generation defeating Madara/Kaguya. So in a sense both Madara and Hashirama won. Really most of the protagonists and antagonists wanted a world without war, but all went about it differently, but all must be somewhat satisfied that Naruto was able to achieve their shared goal.
You might also say that Madara achieved what later became Sasuke's dream during Sasuke's fight with Naruto - to unite the world in war against himself and thus end all other wars. Madara just did it so effectively that he didn't need to be a continual specter the way Sasuke desired to be.
First, good job on all the videos you made about hypocrisy and also the one about Neji!
I'm very messy when it comes to explain myself about complex topics, specially when they are not in my mother tongue, so I'm sorry if they are all over the place.
I agree with all that has been said in the video "Anime is UNREALISTIC!?" from craftsdwarf, however I think that there is much more to be said, and in other words, may I say. All these debates are inherently philosophical, they revolve around the concept of reality and the underlying epistemology, up until now I haven't seen any comment about this specifically: what we call "realism" draws heavily from the empirical perspective which we all subreptitiously share since we are all part of modern societies based on Science and Technology (and with access to Internet), and that's not bad at all, of course. You may call it a paradigm of thought if you wish, back in the time of animism the world was explained via Myths and a different reasoning, if it rained it was because some god or goddess had been pleased because somebody did something (which we all know doesn't have any influence) like dancing, hence the origin of the "Rain dance". What we now call fiction, they called reality.
The thing is... applying this concept of empirical reality to fiction is problematic in more ways than I can grasp, first, by definition, fiction is opposed to reality, just like the concept of virtuality, because if it is not opposed, we go back to the old times I've just described, so rejoyce we can tell the difference. And since it is a different "realm", it is governed by different laws, not the laws of physics, but the laws of language, syntax, morphology, etc, and the "laws of human psychology", and that means that fiction is restricted to what we can perceive and how we can perceive it, our focus can't be directed to different places at once, that means that we can't follow different stories in a meaningful way at once, you don't watch 4 movies at a time, it's pointless, that's why there aren't any movies with four cameras at once showing different significant stories.
Also, it is "restricted" in other way, but not as a law: good/bad quality: reality is boring, that's why we write fiction in the first place, meaningful things happen all the time in fiction, whereas in outside reality (no, this isn't a pun, I'm pointing to "the empirical reality") that is not the case, also, depending on your definition of "reality", it may not even have meaning at all, we are the ones that construct the meaning (see constructivism). I firmly believe that what makes a good fiction is its internal consistency and the creativity to make a complex "construction" which heavily involves the "receiver" (be it a reader, listener or viewer) in many ways, specifically in an emotional way, many call the internal consistency "verisimilitude", but..., "veri" comes from "veritas" which means "truth" or "reality" and "similitude", well... it's obvious that it means "similarity", of course, fiction doesn't have to copy reality to be internally consistent, that's the whole point.
In other words, it's a relationship between author and reader/viewer/etc and as such it is rooted in the subjectivity of both, if I can't understand fiction, what's the point of the work having good internal consistency? If it is very bad and just reading it feels insulting to my intelligence, well... I will say it's shit, basically, and, yes, long live postmodernism. This is crucial, because it erases the possibility of writing the perfect book or filming the perfect movie, and all of this because the need for the suspension of disbelief. The suspension of disbelief varies from person to person, from subjectivity to subjectivity, and it is heavily influenced by culture, have you ever shown an anime to an old person just for them to just dismiss it as junk or senseless? They may point out as annoying that "everyone uses the name of the others all the time", yes, because it's japanese culture. This does not happen because "it's not as real as that person expects", it happens because in his/her subjectivity he/she cannot suspend his/her disbelief upon finding certain elements, it may be as well the "avatars" of the characters, we grew up watching anime, we know that those big-eyed fancy-dressed colorful "avatars" are valid characters that simulate human beings, but old people don't have that internalized.
TL;DR
Let's go back to Naruto: there's nothing real in ninjas that can walk over liquids, walls or even roofs, there's nothing real in jutsus, there's nothing real in drawn characters, there's nothing real in them interacting with other drawings; however, you can successfully touch upon many philosophical and actual topics in certain ways, just like sorrow, societal problems, hope, morality, will, determinism and free will, and many others, as long the "receivers" of that fiction accept what they are reading/watching as consistent and worth of suspension of disbelief, and you are not a terrible author, of course. A very good example is "Animal Farm" from George Orwell, yes, it's about animals... and it's one of the best satires of communism and stalinism ever accomplished. It just have to move you, it just have to get you involved, realistic or not, it has to follow its rules, just that, and Naruto takes its own rules seriously, you may not like how Kishimoto did the execution, but many others will, the flaws of the series have to be internal, if they say they are ninjas one episode and Storm Troopers the following (I highly recommend visitting the webpage tvtropes for this), if they are humans and suddenly they are flawless or just flat, but this last bit is very tricky, because it opens a new world, we are suddenly judging human beings, and that means... yes, psychology, philosophy and anthropology, yey, what is our concept of a human being? I overstretched this so I will end it, it depends on the period of history, humans were considered as mere reason and racionality in the enlightment, it changed with postmodernism, and it also changed with the help of James Joyce and Freud, and it certainly changed many times throughout the last century. In my opinion, characters in Naruto usually keep a personality you can point out, they are not flat, they aren't the most complex neither, but at least they all have reasons, flaws, traits, etc, you can remember Itachi saying that everyone and every jutsu has a weakness, you can clearly apply that to Naruto as a whole, people can relate to the feeling of lack, of course we do, Evangelion wouldn't be popular if we didn't lol, what I mean, there is a lot of content there, you may not like how it was executed, you may disagree with author, but you cannot say it doesn't follow its own rules, and I think it would be silly to say that the premise of the show isn't interesting, who doesn't want to be a goddamn ninja with superpowers?
I hate the part about Sarada becoming the Hokage for the sake of plot, while Naruto becoming the Hokage was this epic sequence of character-defining moments all of which could easily serve as the turning point for the series (the two can't be compared the way you did)
Oh shit are you actually rereading Bleach and planing on making the video that's really surprising and I'm assuming it's the same concept from the nen show which will keep this entire streak of CONTRADICTION videos going but that's only if you're approaching the topic that way
lifefailout000is really wildin out. Like you can dislike or hate a story or its components, but this guy is just saying Naruto is a terrible piece of fiction as if his favorite pieces of literature aren't flawed whatsoever. Naruto doesn't virtue signal, calling someone out on their BS isn't virtue signaling, we just interchange the in today's conversations. Naruto comes from an older time where someone to stand out not perfectly but with conviction was attractive. Also, that whole thing about trauma and suffering from other villains, is he really invalidating Naruto's experiences because he's not satisfied with the narrative? that's some abusive junk if I've ever seen it, people like Gaara aren't unique in Naruto's world, how he says it's just loneliness, Naruto was the son of the president and then was turned into a semi-homeless reject. Sure Gaara went through an assassination attempt, but the Sand village and other few villages were known to be cruel long before these two were born. If I'm born in an impoverished city or town and my idea of wealth is being able to eat twice a day leftovers and have a roof over my head, I can't on people who didn't live where I did if they had more, but if they are being horrible I can call them out on their BS. If Gaara is such a good example for this dude of how bad Naruto is as a protagonist, why not look at Haku? I think he went through horrible stuff, yet I didn't see Naruto's view on him as invalidating him. Heck if someone as common as Iruka whose parents were killed by the nine-tailed fox which was the way naruto was referred as during his childhood, was able to call out Naruto on his BS, educate him and defend and accept him in the end, then Naruto's "virtue signaling" is valid as heck. Also, that thing about Naruto not being able to reach others without seeing himself in others is not a flaw. That has been taught through history, "don't do to others what you wouldn't want to be done to yourself" "put yourself in other's shoes" etc.
And the whole unrealistic thing is beyond ridiculous to me. "It's unrealistic" really MFer when did you notice? When Naruto reached Gaara but you missed how unrealistic it was when Naruto was denied basic care as the son of a political figure? How did the Hyuga clan let the female heir to their clan, an important asset, be thrown into deadly combat over and over? Something that would never happen? Countries knew of Orochimaru yet let him run wild? realistically the Stone village and the Cloud village would've relentlessly pushed to get him and try to use him. Naruto is full of inconsistencies but that's part of the ride, some things are to be sacrificed so others are more fine-tuned. Really childish responses tbh.
I think your problem with the 'anime is unrealistic' argument is that we live in reality and it basically functions the same for all of us. Therefore if a series shows people working on the bacon vs blue tie spectrum, that's incomprehensible to us, and makes the message harder to sink in because it's no longer people learning and changing, it's very suddenly and obviously become characters going through an arc
No, it's just lazy world-building. You can't accept what you liked is flawed can you?
Leonard Deal. I'm severely confused, I didn't say whether I liked it or not. In fact I've never read more than a single book of the manga, and I haven't seen the anime post Zabuza arc. This was a refutation of Mathwiz's argument. Please explain yourself.
Thecynicalone He can't, mostly because it has nothing to do with world-building.
People CAN change in such a short time, it happens all the time.
Boredfan Gerrude. I agree, I think that for most people change is mostly a gradual process. There are exceptions, true. But my point is, is that most people don't change significantly over the course of a day, much less a conversation. Especially considering that most of them very much want to kill Naruto at the time why would they listen to him? Imagine you're seeing red, not only are you fired up, you straight up want to kill them, they beat you. After they're done beating the daylights out of you they explain that you're wrong and they're right. What is your reaction? To listen to them? Or to not listen to them because you're absolutely livid.
Naruto forcing Sasuke to come back to the village despite what Sasuke really wants. Such a dominance guy. How can he call himself Sasuke's friend when he doesn't respect Sasuke's idea???
He does tho, he just doesn't agree with it and is only trying to stop Sasuke because his ideas are going to hurt others
I don't think you're missing anything with Kaguya as a character. She felt extremely forced in and unnecessary after Madara, and thematically didn't fit. The three legendary Sannin were based on Japanese folk tales too, but they had the development necessary for good characterisation.
Even if Kaguya was a seed planted in Naruto to help tie in Boruto, if you need to read a separate text to understand a character in the original, it's not a strong character.
Boruto suffers from a LOT of problems when it comes to story structure and themes - especially following from Naruto. Most of the cast seems to exist reactively - only acting for the purposes of plot, and not for their own ideals/ambitions, which feels extremely sluggish.
There are some interesting ideas and new characters, but those positives are far outweighed by predictable and unsatisfying story beats. I really wanted to enjoy Boruto's Dad's Son's story, but I genuinely think it falls way too far from the tree. I'm looking forward to your thoughts on Boruto if you ever decide to get into it.
Kaguya as a tool to explain the origins of chakra I am totally fine with it despite a few flaws or unconsistencies. Kaguya as a villain however... just ugh... awful.
@ronaldo Heres how you explain chakra: It just exists!
i knew i liked madara, not that i wouild cry over the fact we didnt have a proper full circle, they should rewind it all, and add madara
There is a defense for that second point. Naruto at no point ever says that his situation is equivalent to anyone else's. What he says is that he has had similar feelings of loneliness, rejection, self-doubt. You could look at Mizuki in a similar experience to what Gaara had with Yashamaru. Second, Naruto fully acknowledges that his situation is different from Gaara or Neji in that he found people who cared about him and that is what he teaches everyone he "talk no jutsu's". Zabuza learns it's okay to show that he cared about Haku. Neji learns that his father did not hate the main Hyuga family. Gaara recognizes that Temari and Kankuro genuinely care about him despite there fear of him. Sasuke is the exception because Sasuke starts out as being loved and loses everyone and that is something Naruto can't identify with until he loses both Jiraiya and Kakashi.
As far as Kakuzu goes Naruto wasn't just taking a step down Sasuke's path. Naruto actually has a habit of trying to do too much by himself and taking on burdens one individual should not hold alone; ESPECIALLY when it comes to Sasuke; ex: swearing to Sakura he will bring Sasuke back, letting himself get taken over by Kurama when facing Deidara and later Orochimaru, facing Kakuzu alone, begging for Sasuke's life at the summit . Itachi points this out to him after he meets Naruto during the War arc.
*Tariq Blake*
I . . . . . never said that Naruto says his situation is equivalent to anyone else's. Assuming your first paragraph was directed at my comment's scan, know that I merely wanted to point out how Naruto's feelings are superficial and overrated.
I feel Kaguya was born from the necessity to bring team 7 back together. While Naruto wasn’t “rewarded” for facing Kakazu alone, he did get stronger and it did take him a step in the direction of eventually befriending Kurama. But every time Naruto did his Talk no Jutsu, it was just him alone talking to the antagonist. That means that the antagonist would necessarily have to have a tragic past for Naruto to find and remind them of that. The Sage of Six Paths said he wasn’t sure what drove his mother to suddenly become so heartless, but it happened when she ate the chakra fruit. Maybe Kishimoto didn’t want to explore that too much bc he didn’t want Naruto to talk her down, he had to get team 7 back together as a cohesive unit before Sashke and Naruto’s final showdown. It wouldn’t have made sense to Naruto’s entire narrative for him not to use Talk no Jutsu against an opponent with a reason to change, so Kishimoto left that out of Kaguya’s character. The Talk no Jutsu of that final arc was with Sasuke, so we didn’t need to see it with Kaguya bc the tension between Naruto and Sasuke was laced throughout the entire final battle sequence with Kaguya, even though they were working together. So, unlike his fight against Kakuzu temporarily costing him his arm because he chose to fight alone against an irredeemable opponent, he was successful against Kaguya because he relied on his team. And ironically, permanently lost his arm with his Talk no Jutsu against Sasuke.
18:18 Deidara-esque "Hm!" Noice dawg you a true coolin' game spitter of the greatest gospel that is Naruto
Now you gotta make a 3-part 'In defense of plot armour' mini series
Can you do a video about the uchiha downfall, I would love to see you break that down
6 years later and I still don't know what part of Kaguya doesn't make sense or needed further explaining. Everything is said right there in the story
Here is my take on kaguya she is madarsas ideology personified or at least hi goal hi point is that mans hypocrucy is unsolvleble so he will make a perfect world throght the eye of the moon plan and kaguya is that would personifed but aperfect world is one without hipocracy and thus one without conflict but conflict is what lets us grow like how naruto and sauske conflict had them pushing each other forward untill they could defeat a perfect veimg with out said flaws like kaguya
Bleach is very interesting because Ichigo really stands out in shounen cause he has no real goal but many things that are weird cause the Quincys and full bringers good luck
I won't be talking about any of what you just mentioned lol. I have something more specific in mind, and since I'm not much of a Bleach fan as a whole, that's probably for the best.
The fact he has no goal is part of the problem and this is coming from a fan.
Its not good.
You have to remember, the thing about Naruto is that Shinzo I history is everyone who was involved and died for their will to be carried on
And Zetsu mocked that because he set a bunch of events to happen solely for who? For Kaguya….
So Kaguya is important for the story (even in Boruto)
I give her character more credit than some do because she did have a role regardless
* Tobirama has entered the group chat* ( to murder sarada )
If ever there was a power that a hokage would needits the ability to reason with someone. Naruto was always a borne leader. If Naruto just overpowered everyone would be really be a good leader
Dude I love your videos, I really think they're well made and you shouldn't put yourself down so much. Seems like most comments you receive only tell you where you messed up and what things you got wrong, so I just want to tell you that you're doing a great job! Keep doing what you do!
I probably make it seem that way considering I mostly only address the comments pointing out my flaws, but I do generally get a lot of praise on my comments. It's just really easy to focus on the negatives even when they're far outnumbered by positives. I'm trying to stop hating myself as much as I do, but it's a work in progress.
First time I've been featured in _any_ video. Dayyuuum. I think I still have some disagreements with this video; I believe Sasuke and Naruto couldn't be far enough apart, for instance. I never found the former to be an exception to Naruto wankers like Gaara, Neji, Nagato, etc., but whatevs. You seem to be a sincere Naruto supporter, so your videos are worth commenting on.
Keep up the good work!
Yeah yeah, what ever
Can we talk about jow COOL obito is? He is the coolest guy
Why do you do this hahaha
Lukas Eduardo Especially after he was the reason naruto's parents died in the first placr.
Actually if you really take an look at that logic it's pretty consistent for Naruto "You're no longer the demon fox that tried to kill me on the day I was born forcing my parents to jump in front of a fucking claw and kill themselves to protect me but since you hate Madara you're an ally of Konoha" Uzumaki.
i wonder if naruto would say that if obito killed hinata instead of neji....seems a bit hypocritical...without her speech naruto would give up so that seems like a joke
@@shawnmiller4185 That actually makes no sense. Kurama quite literally rarely if ever sought to do shit to anyone, and I am pretty sure Naruto understood that by that point. Not a single one of the Bijuu truly did until people WILLINGLY got in their way and started pulling this Jinchuriki business like complete retards.
Lo and behold, the times Kyuubi is made to kill people in the village, he's not even doing anything willingly, he's goddamn mind controlled and fucked into it, not even mentioning that he has all the right after being robbed of his freedom and free will by being sealed like a bomb deterrent for his power.
Obito has none of this shit... he deliberately fucked people over that never did nothing wrong to him, caused deaths and despairs and a horrible world all over, because his fucking girl died... Kakashi had his dad literally suicide, but no Obito, we are cool for you being such a shit lord. Your situation is totally understandable.
Forgiving Obito and forgiving the fox is not really comparable from any angle.
4:50 that guy nailed it tbh.....i couldn't word it better
no...he used way too many words. it was cringy af
LilRachelK
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LilRachelK
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human being can have a sudden moment of clarity what Naruto is doing is pointing out the mistakes from his perspective which after analysing it they understand it think of it as a maths question you can't solve then later someone shows you how to do it and you are like oh that was so obvious how could I not think of that
On your point with realism: As a writer, the problem is not that something is unrealistic, the issue is the proportion of it. We don't really see many arguments on how Vegeta's redemption arc is unrealistic, we discuss it a lot, but because the series doesn't quite go too in-depth with his acts, and he is portrayed as a wild card for most of the series, that is good enough.
Naruto is plagued with repeating flashbacks to bring up a point, and that point is: *Why does that character's feelings matter.* And then their change is just sudden and that is about it.
It did not need to do that at all, Kakuzu, Kisame, and every poor unexplored soul from the sound village, including Taka have good premises, good concepts as a character, and although they have plenty depth to be dug, they work just as well on a shonen manga framework. *That is alright.* But then we see villains have whole arcs on why they became that way and suddenly they are okay and no longer a challenge because they were beaten.
Pain literally shuts up Naruto and challenges his entire worldview when he captures him, and Naruto's way to change his mind is: Idk the answer but I'll find out.
Nagato, who spent decades understanding politics and betrayal and the very nature of war from different angles: Understandable, have a great day.
You talk about the lack of opportunity of a character to have redemption, but that is bad writing on itself. Konan and Nagato just die, when they could have perfectly being the first country to be on the alliance and that is why the kage's meeting is important. Danzo would have a point against Naruto for keeping Pain alive, Sasuke actually is justified in wanting to kill the elders at this point because those are characters that walked out with *genocide*.
Could Nagato have an alliance with the village after killing so many? The sand certainly did? If chakra is the problem (which is hilarious to point out considering what comes after) trust could come from Naruto and Nagato using part of the Ninetails chakra to revive them if that was so important for Kishimoto.
Obito might have good in them but he has the highest on-screen and implied bodycount of all the characters from active decisions, kills Naruto's parents, his future-cousin-in-law, his friends parents and so many others including basically everyone who has some kind of trauma in the Leaf, and not even let me get started on the Mist... and we become a meme for about two weeks when he says Obito was "the coolest guy".
Sasuke never deals with the village, he just walks away, he has no conclusions with the elders, nothing. While there are dozens of good arguments to keep them alive after the war, Him, Kabuto and Orochimaru are basically treated like they were going through a phase... and the series don't bother to use any of them.
I don't think your idea for Nagato would work. Wouldn't they have to face justice for their crimes if they survived? Pretty sure what they did guaranteed a death sentence.
When you're so much more powerful than someone that their wrongdoings aren't threatening to you and can be trivially stopped, all you really have to do is beat their face in once. They'll get the hint and you won't have to worry about them again. Naruto can forgive people so easily because he had god-like powers.
· 0xFFF1 Naruto never really forgive pain or Nagato for what they done,but He was abel to set His Personal desire for Revenge and hatered by side and make Peace with them, because Naruto realize with His confrontaion with pain that Revenge and hatred Just making The Things worser and If He wants truly Archive Peace He must be Abel to Set His desire for Revenge and hatered by side.
chibi itachi even tough you're right, why do you constantly switch between writing big and small?
Joel ! Its my Phone changing the words into big Sometimes even If i wrotte them small its Just my Autokorrektur XD
Joel ! Did you now thats kryptonian sayajins Chanel got deleted,i thought He is Just sick or bussie and thats The Reason why He didn,t Up load for a time and Today i would Check on His Community Funktion If He wrotte when He Starts Up loading but when i went to His Channel it was deleted.What a shame when you consuder how great His Channel was and how much Work He Put in to reach so many viewers and subscribers
chibi itachi oh that must be annoying and say what he got deleted? Does he have a new channel or something? damm that sucks
I think in the back of his mind, Madara knew he would loose, and through his power, Shinobi would work together to kill him, thus uniting the world under the threat of himself, like what Sasuke tried to do, and a bit like Light Yagami from Death Note.
And Lelouch from Code Geass
Also. Kakazu showercthat power for powers sake destroys you.
Boruto is really Good, Im thoroughly enjoying the anime, ive been following it every week since it started airing
You mean you like a series that adapts one chapter every month and is written like a fan fiction show
@@dinogt8477 Yep
@@dinogt8477 You would know something about that Gt man
@@SHINOBIJACK I see you have no standards thats great and what do you mean i would know something about that? Do you think i enjoy dragon ball super thats just as bad as boruto and fan fictiony like your shit show?
@@dinogt8477 Im just saying having Gt in your name is awfully ironic, while trying to attack people on their subjective tastes xD
It's crazy how Uchiha/Madara/Kaguya all Eat their young in exchange for power. Naruto takes care of those around him and gets rewarded.
Casey James not really his also a liar
1 he knows about the uchia massacre and decided to keep it secret
2 lies and says that it was itachi who resurrected the dead and not kabuto which has killed many many people and defiled the past ninja
3 he keeps orochimaru a secret from everyone ....I wounder what garra and the sand would say if they found out that Naruto has orochimaure close to him when it was orochimaru who tricked the sand to attack konaha and killed the kazikage
Hell there was only a few people who knows that kabuto and orochimaru was working close with Naruto
4 he doesn’t give punishment for those who ordered the death of uchia
Hell there was only a few people who knew mitsuki was orochimarus son and he never told anyone
Hell Naruto after hearing about the uchia massicare ...Naruto didn’t didn’t think .....oh how could the village do this ....but instead he was going....how can he think of revenge
Naruto doesn’t question why the village did what it did ......I mean it think about it
It was all ...oh revenge is bad
Not
Why did the village do this why am I defending this village if they are willing to sacrifice there own ninja
i'm willing to sacrifice some realism if there's an interesting an idea or message that's trying to be conveyed. I do have limits to that though, depending on the situation and i do think some of the execution of talk no jutsu could've been better, I do find it an interesting concept. Plus I like to think I'm an optimistic person so, that helps.
I'm a pessimistic person, but I liked it too lol
I don't understand what people mean when they say Naruto is not realistic are they talking about the powers? Because the characters mirror real life if you ask me.
I’m really curious. Do you think this is the best animated show ever? Not asking for facts but just what you think. Your opinion. Like is this your favorite animated show? If it’s not, which animated show is?
No, not even close. Naruto is good, but not amazing. My 3 favorite anime are Hunter x Hunter (2011), Baby Steps and Gurren Lagann.
Mathwiz ok i see that’s very interesting. I’ll give those a watch. Thanks.
I agree thats is better to re Read or re watch The Animes you like, because when i First watch Naruto from Front to Back i totally agree with everything that Happen and i didn,t Questionung anything but when i came with The critizime of Naruto in contact we're People saying Naruto isn,t perfekt i Couldn,t belive IT and Re watch Naruto and by doing so i was abel to find some Plot holes or controdictory and See The Problem of The series in general.I was also Abel to understand some Charakters better and understand why they acting in The way they done Like Obito or that Naruto isn,r Just a stupid Guy with a good Heart who Just forgive everyone No Matter what they done.After Re watching Naruto, Sasuke become my Favorit anime Charakter of all time because i was abel to understand The Charakter and His Motivation.
I agree with you, but can you please fix your typos? You can edit your comment, you know.
In regards to the unrealistic change in antagonists. In my oppinion, all of them were in huge pain, thorn between the hypocrisy of the way they feel, act and think. The longer you live, the harder it gets to keep living this way. You act upon what you think, but that brings you pain that influences the way you think even more, wich influences your actions, wich brings you even more pain and so a vicious cycle of struggle is born. But when someone like Naruto comes along and shows them a different way of thinking, one that does not require them to struggle, they would accept it. Of course, not easily, but that is what the fights in Naruto symbolise. I haven't watched Naruto in a while, but I don't remember an antagonist changing their ideology without a fight. When Naruto defeats them and proves his ideology is better, they have no reason left to stick with their own way of thinking.
Then the characters "connecting" with Naruto is nonsensical. Naruto has the least sad story compared to the other characters. For the most part of the series, he doesn't even know how his parents died, so his experience is just a plain orphan, he was "hated" by the people of his village, so an abused orphan. It is a sad story but definitely not on the level of other villains.
He doesn't understand any of their pain, so the villain suddenly changing their views because he "relates" is irrelevant. For example, in the Obito arc, he didn't suffer as much as Obito, His parents died when he has no memory of them. And even after they died, they managed to slipped a few parts of them into the future saying to him that they died happily and that they died "trusting" him, it's a very happy "death" if you call that "death".
Obito lost Rin to a war event that doesn't benefit anybody at all, a meaningless event. His only friend, his only love, he has no family as well, Kakashi is his friend for about 2 hours before he got crushed by the gigantic rock. So the only thing that he loves, Rin, got taken away from him for meaningless reason. That hits much harder.
Naruto can preach about pain but if you look at it, he doesn't suffer at all. Most of his friends survived the war, and his acquaintances who died, seemingly all died for "noble" reasons, even in their dying moments, all passed to him this "will of fire" in a few cheesy last words. Seemingly in Naruto world, nobody died for meaningless cause and people's greed for power, they all died happily doing something to "protect".
The plot armor factor is so obvious that it's close to being ridiculous
The talk no jutsu would be fine if it makes sense, in order for it to make sense, what he talks needs to make sense, but it doesn't.
One simple rebuttal to Naruto argument against Obito.
Naruto: What would Rin think of you now, Obito?
Obito: What she thinks wouldn't matter anymore, because she's not here.
Naruto: Whatttttt?
It might sound harsh but dying can just be dying, people die all the time without meaningful reason, and sometimes, things people called meaningful reasons are just ridiculous reasons. She died protecting the village? Now who is insane enough to put that idea into a kid? And why is that idea a good thing? That you must "die" to serve this higher cause that cares little for your safety? Shinobi must follow rules? But doing so, abandoning your comrade is acceptable? People choice are the result of what makes them, of what they were taught, a world that taught people like that, to Obito, is hell.
Obito cared for Rin, but Rin is dead, the reason he says he shall be the savior that lead mankind out of pain is because he wants to stop all conflict now and forever more, same as Madara. That's why he cast the infinite Tsukuyomi. People who died stopping him casting that genjutsu are the same ones who killed Rin, because they're advocating for a world where human can still decide to act upon their own benefits, causing conflict and he can not accept that.
If Naruto can't accept Obito vision, then fine, because Obito can not accept Naruto vision. Obito might picture himself as the Hokage, who leads people to happiness by working together, but that is a dream, it can not happen, it contradict natural law. Absolute equality can never create happiness, because there is limited resource. Peace on the surface is just cover for nasty stuff below it. Obito vision that he is the Hokage because that is what he will experience when he goes inside the Infinite Tsukuyomi, to remind himself that he can not loose control, that he must finish what he started, so that he and everybody left alive, and everybody after him can experience happiness.
That is the correct philosophical answer. Not the "I want to be Hokage" nonsense, you won't want to be Hokage if everybody you care about is dead. Because then why would you want to be Hokage for strangers? But of course, due to Naruto plot armor, they're still alive, his friends still give him "hope", unlimited hope because they will never die.
Hope is a child answer and Obito, Madara, Nagato should know that when faced with the talk no jutsu. One can only have hope if there's still something left to give him hope, if they lost everything, there is no hope. Naruto never lost anything, that's the ridiculous point.
I am glad you took my comment into consideration (and also honored) but I also feel that, while the discussion was not perfect, I would call it a really solid start to talking about the concept of redemption and hypocrisy in the context of anime. Your videos are really insightful and do not possess that much hate over any piece of media so far. Honestly, I find the approach you had to Naruto, Madara and Neji to be well-made, especially since there have been times where, for example, Naruto's "obsession" with Sasuke comes off as annoying or Neji's fatalism as just hard-headedness and pent-up frustration for some people.
If you are going to do Bleach videos, I really hope you discuss the unique position (if you can call it that) of Ichigo as a protagonist, seeing as his end goal is not centered on some position or object like Naruto and Luffy. Also maybe more on the deeper themes of Bleach, if you might find them. :D
Well, I'll tell you right now that my video won't be about Ichigo, but it is about one of the recurring themes in Bleach.
To point 2. When Naruto ended. Kishimoto went on record to say. That his take on the antagonist. Was due to his grandfather telling him World War 1 or 2. And how the changes the world around created a paradox of emotions. Rather than making Naruto a killer talking about justice. Naruto never kills anyone personally because the narrative he had in mind. Requires him to bring peace.
He then states that he understands that take us unrealistic. But it comes from a real place. Do to all the death his grandfather had seen. He can't reconcile the the 2 different versions of the world he lived in. The past and his present when Kishimoto was a boy.
I always thought it was interesting how narutos name came from jiraiyah who chose the name after looking at nagato and presumably just replacing the g with an r after the ramen noodles he was eating
I always thought it was interesting that Jiraiya was supposed to be his godfather, but he never showed up until Naruto was 12 years old
Just realized in the Kakuzu fight he almost lost his arm trying to follow Sasukes path...a lil bit of foreshadowing there
There's a comment in the last video that said Naruto has a lot of hypocrisies. It's just that he's powerful enough to IMPOSE his will on others, and that will is deemed the "right" will. He is THE CHILD OF THE PROPHECY, people have destined lives and they do not get far away from them. There's no way Kiba can become Hokage for example, even though he wills it till the end of the series(his Infinite Tsukuyomi dream was that). Naruto says hardwork, but from the point he lost in that fight with Neji (cause that was like the loss against Pain, he used 'destined' power to get past the defeat), he spent the rest of the series gaining powers to cope with strong villains and enforce his will on them. The peace we have in Boruto is temporal cause Naruto is alive and basically a God. It's like the USA having "won" WW2 and there's "peace" cause no one can or wants to face them so they just follow. To perfect this analogy, the USSR(Sasuke) had to be an ally of the USA before the end of the war for that peace to be and all the powers of the world pointing in one direction, hence the too fast redemption of Sasuke and the bringin of aliens to get a plot. Boruto concentrates on aliens and not on the relationships between humans and villages. Once this batch of Kage dies, it'll be unrealistic if the next Kages do not want their villages to get a little stronger.
Even though Madara caused the lack of trust towards the Uchiha, he didn't cause any of the wars and will of increasing power in people. That's how people get. Naruto himself wants peace, but also wants to get stronger than anyone. It's like the USA increasing their military budget and waging wars in the name of peace. And on that point there's no wayTalk-no-jutsu can work cause Naruto rarely has answers. He's just made OP and everything is solved. Also, the fact that his moral compass is not corrupted by all the powers he get is as unrealistic as any anime could get.
There's a part before Madara is killed that Naruto tries to Talk-no-jutsu, and it immediately backlashes. The fight is over, people are living IDEALLY FOREVER, yet Naruto just wants to impose his will once more. "THINGS ARE NOT GOING MY WAY, LET'S FIGHT". Now that he has his third ideological defeat (Neji, Tendo and Madara) he needs more power to get through as he has always done, but he can't, the Rikudo himself has already intervened and he can't get past that. So what do we get? Madara's death, the greatest asspull in favor of our hero in the entire series.
Don't watch Boruto read it
Boruto hasn't gotten far enough yet to say for sure, but I kind of feel like Kaguya is meant to be messy in Naruto because one of the major themes I picked up on personally in Boruto is a "cleaning up our parent's mess" type of thing. You see it in the first arc especially, but also with everything that happened in the blood mist village as well. I think they intentionally made Kaguya unclear and messy.
What about Kamara and naruto journey with his mother and father. I think it shows even if people die they are still walking with you.
The Sarada part just makes me thing of how sasuke and naruto getting together at the end would be an even better way of ending the "ashura and indra", with their conflict finally reaching an union between the two souls.
It would be even better if they could have a kid (I know that they wouldn't be able to, this is just a thought), because then it would be the literal symbol of both of them being unified.
Btw, this is literally just a point of view and personal opinion, if you don't agree just ignore it, don't come at me because you don't like the ship
Mathwiz
This video series is legendary.
I'll reread Hunter x Hunter and watch it! Also I'm waiting for the Bleach video.
About the stretch of time and gradual change, I disagree with the criticism because of what we are watching. Changes of heart and personal growth don't happen in an ascending line, just look at sobriety after addiction. If someone wants Realism, Sasuke is actually the modt realistic in that regard in my opinion, but within the narrative of a shonen anime, it sucks to watch when alongside the more streamlined talk-no-jutsu stuff (and of course, Sakura). However, a lot of thematic correspondences other than dialog seems like retrospective pondering by us to me. By that, I mean, for someone talking about friends and peace, Naruto sure fights 1v1 a lot.
Nagato and Obito were redeemed in the same way. They were both willing to give their lives to defend ideals/people they had opposed.
it is mildly strange to say that both Neji and Naruto were half right. Naruto never attempted to argue Neji could become of another clan, but that he could chose a different path within that clan. There is no duality. Naruto is absolutely right, period. Furthermore, *so what* if they come from an esteemed clan? Gai was able to fight So6P Madara and would have killed him if not for regen
They way you talk in this video is stressing me out.
Otherwise interesting take on Naruto's complex theme's
Here's a wild what-if; what if the Otsutsuki were planting divine trees, harvesting chakra from planets, amassing it in the chakra fruits they eat, and powering themselves up as a last ditch effort to fight off something far more dangerous than themselves.
That would be fucked and Naruto wouldn’t even be Naruto at that point, but an interesting take.
It's actually super realistic because Naruto is based on Jesus Christ our Lord and savior. And as long as you accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, believe he died on the cross for all sins and rose again, and repent of your sins then you are redeemed. Simple and Clean as that... believe it
For me the answer for the duality is oneness that’s why the ending of Naruto it was not that favorite for a symbol best time having fun watching kind of people even the writer himself with all his geniuses when he reach the endpoint of all problems which is duality he couldn’t pass it that’s why he chose to kill all the best watches Naruto and do it all over again which is Boruto and for me it will be the same and I think the writer will know that that’s why he will do it in more colorful action and more colorful sadness and more colorful in everything but the basic of the problems that in Wass Naruto it will be also in Boruto it’s beautiful to put the B in the name anyway the reason that madara he is tapping the root of all problems which is duality was no fun because all of us know that the answer is we need to find the one witches in some cultures call it God and that’s no fun that’s hard core reality
wht tht guy said about Jiraiya was wrong tho wht Jiraiya believed is tht ppl will eventually come to understand each other wasnt
really about differences of ppl getting along it was about eventually being able to understand one another and achieve peace also even if wht he said was right most of the antags tht Naruto face are different from him in the path they chose and eventually they understand each other cause Naruto went thru similar things so i wouldnt say thts a mockery he would have to re-read wht Jiraiya actually said
Awesome video I love your content
Please make more Naruto content in future i always thought there is more to it than people give it credit for and someone acknowledging that is great
I'm sure I'll keep coming back to Naruto over time, I have other script ideas, I just want to go back to covering other stuff after this next video.
People change cause they have too. People also change to be a "better" version of themselves. People change when dealing with another perspective of their world view that's possible to achieve. Those who wont change dont have a cause, a better persona or a new perspective. They are lost. But who can say they really dont have a shot at all three reasons.
You think Boruto has potential cause youve only seen 2 episodes. Dont worry, it'll prove you wrong. But better yet, dont waste your time. Its total garbage. Just like Dragon Ball Super. If flashiness and explosions and turning your brain off is satisfying for you, you might like it.
have you read the manga m8?
Well it's more important to be internally consistent to me then be realistic.
Although Naruto is not internally consistent. But that's not here nor there.
Please make more videos im checking for them
All I had to see was the dude say Naruto was a terrible piece of fiction to understand nothing he said had any weight to it. Clearly doesn't understand what makes a good story 😂
the way I think of Kaguya is that she shows that Naruto and Sasuke two opposites are unity as one then right after it has them spill and how Sasuke thinks he can save the world. or that it shows that Naruto and Sasuke had an understanding of each other but still eventually we butt heads with each other to show how is better. (i hope this makes sense)
but I still do think she could have been written a bit better in naruto. but she has the perfect set up of the conflict in Boruto. which keeps a motif that the past generations have a big impact on the future ones.
@Mathwiz imagine if you got copyright strike for using your footage
SUBSCRIBED!!! more naruto content please!
we should do a discord server, im here if you need some help creating one
Wich one you ship ? Boruto x Sarada or Boruto X someone else?
Sarada saying she want to become hokage is a death flag. Much like obito
If Sarada gets killed we riot. She is by far the best Uchiha imo.
@@shirshanyaroy287 excuse me?
@@shirshanyaroy287
Lol what?
Nah, this isn't A Song of Ice and Fire, Boruto/Naruto are ultimately hopeful fantasy stories. They'll kill off minor characters or sensei characters, but they're not gonna kill off a protagonist/deuteragonist
That's why Sarada should of been Karin's daughter cause Karin is an uzumaki and the uzumaki have closer relationship with the senju and later when Sarada is Hokage everything would've come to place.
hey nagato drained all his lifespan to undo his damage as much as his life can offer
Kagukya is supposed to be a divine wisdom Sophia archetype. said to be equivalent to the essence of God. She is the progenitor of chakra, like the divine feminine is the progenitor of wisdom and language. This is the forbidden fruit, that casts humanity from the garden. Kaguya giving chakra to shinobi was like Eve giving wisdom to Man.
So the conflict is escalating to a new level beyond human shinobi. Once Ashura and Indra had their conflict essentially concluded, shinobi can ascend to Godhood, or like God-men hybrids. Like Naruto and Sasuke live as essentially demigods.
The discussion in Boruto now revolves around living in a world of ‘god shinobi’ with incredible technology.
I think the second comment you showed that you said you have no counter for is a criticism that’s so inherently flawed on all premises and misunderstands everything so much that it’s nearly incoherent and is kind of hard to point out why it’s so wrong as a result.
Saying Naruto cannot understand people who are different than him and then pointing to Neji is basically saying something is the opposite of what it was. Naruto got to Neji because he was the opposite of him but he showed Neji how they both still defied destiny. Naruto wasn’t a genius, he couldn’t even do a clone jutsu but he still managed to learn a technique like the shadow clone jutsu and use it to beat Neji, Neji on the other hand was a genius, we was supposed to be from the inferior branch but he was naturally a genius and far stronger than Hinata and Naruto acknowledges that Neji is a genius and he himself isn’t, which is what makes Neji see his hypocrisy and trust Naruto so much. The reason Neji is the first talk no jutsu is because he’s nothing like Naruto so Naruto can easily see his contradictions, he’s scared of Gaara because unlike with Neji he sees a reflection of himself and has to face that, he’s scared of the possibility that someone took a darker path than him and it made them stronger, he’s scared that he could have been like g
Gaara. Complaining that Naruto sees reflections of himself in most villains is complaining about the point, the series does have ‘irredeemable’ villains that still have conviction (Hidan, Danzo, Kabuto) but Naruto isn’t the person to fight them because that’s not what his arc is. He’s complaining that Naruto should understand and get along with people and understand them despite there differences by saying Naruto always understands and relates to his villains despite there differences, all it essentially boils down to is saying everything is too optimistic, which is preference but it’s worded in a way that tries to make it sound like an inherent fact. You can’t say Naruto should have had to overcome differences more than complain that Naruto overcame differences with superficial similarities. I think the comment is an interesting analysis but the fact it claims everything is on a “lower standard of analysis” kind of annoys me. It’s true that the fact that Naruto converts people as quickly as he does is somewhat unrealistic, but the way it’s portrayed is due to pacing reasons and in the long form story takes much more time to flesh everything out than the time that passed in the world itself. If you would have preferred they rehabilitated the villains in a more long form manner, that’s reasonable, but it’s a preference not the “superior mode of analysis”
I just spent half an hour responding to a 5 year old TH-cam comment being shown in a different video from the one it was posted one, I may be a little too passionate about things sometimes
I don't remember what all I said in this video since it was years ago, but you're real for that lol
There's a lot of argument in the comments on how Naruto never gives true solutions to other's source of pain, and that's why his talk no jutsu is bad, because it's based on simple feelings they share like loneliness and that's what he emphasizes with, and not deeper and complicated issues like clan assassination and such.
But then what could Naruto do?
A) Beat the shit out of characters without ever trying to understand them, which makes both villains and Naruto less human
or
B) Give actual solutions which would feel even more like it's pulled out of his ass because he lacks any experience to back them up, or he'd need to be a character that suffered everything others have, but then he wouldn't just be a completely different person, but his positive and naive attitude would be even more unrealistic having gone through so much shit
This is why I don't agree with this stance on the issue.
And this is why I agree with it:
The idea of connecting with another person on simple feelings is the very basic concept of empathy: It means we feel the pain of others, even if only experienced a tiny bit of it. However, this doesn't line up well with the sudden moment of clarity. If you connect only through a small portion of a bigger issue, it shouldn't be able to trigger such a sudden change (unless the small shared experience of the whole is the source of the problem, or if someone is already in doubt about their chosen path like Obito), instead it should work as small seed planted, that will give the push for the person to slowly change themselves, but as most characters other than maybe Gaara die after the sudden moment of clarity, they don't have the chance to do it. So I feel like Kishimoto did it, to give these villains a sudden but one final chance at redemption.
Then the characters "connecting" with Naruto is nonsensical. Naruto has the least sad story compared to the other characters. For the most part of the series, he doesn't even know how his parents died, so his experience is just a plain orphan, he was "hated" by the people of his village, so an abused orphan. It is a sad story but definitely not on the level of other villains.
He doesn't understand any of their pain, so the villain suddenly changing their views because he "relates" is irrelevant. For example, in the Obito arc, he didn't suffer as much as Obito, His parents died when he has no memory of them. And even after they died, they managed to slipped a few parts of them into the future saying to him that they died happily and that they died "trusting" him, it's a very happy "death" if you call that "death".
Obito lost Rin to a war event that doesn't benefit anybody at all, a meaningless event. His only friend, his only love, he has no family as well, Kakashi is his friend for about 2 hours before he got crushed by the gigantic rock. So the only thing that he loves, Rin, got taken away from him for meaningless reason. That hits much harder.
Naruto can preach about pain but if you look at it, he doesn't suffer at all. Most of his friends survived the war, and his acquaintances who died, seemingly all died for "noble" reasons, even in their dying moments, all passed to him this "will of fire" in a few cheesy last words. Seemingly in Naruto world, nobody died for meaningless cause and people's greed for power, they all died happily doing something to "protect".
The plot armor factor is so obvious that it's close to being ridiculous
The talk no jutsu would be fine if it makes sense, in order for it to make sense, what he talks needs to make sense, but it doesn't.
One simple rebuttal to Naruto argument against Obito.
Naruto: What would Rin think of you now, Obito?
Obito: What she thinks wouldn't matter anymore, because she's not here.
Naruto: Whatttttt?
It might sound harsh but dying can just be dying, people die all the time without meaningful reason, and sometimes, things people called meaningful reasons are just ridiculous reasons. She died protecting the village? Now who is insane enough to put that idea into a kid? And why is that idea a good thing? That you must "die" to serve this higher cause that cares little for your safety? Shinobi must follow rules? But doing so, abandoning your comrade is acceptable? People choice are the result of what makes them, of what they were taught, a world that taught people like that, to Obito, is hell.
Obito cared for Rin, but Rin is dead, the reason he says he shall be the savior that lead mankind out of pain is because he wants to stop all conflict now and forever more, same as Madara. That's why he cast the infinite Tsukuyomi. People who died stopping him casting that genjutsu are the same ones who killed Rin, because they're advocating for a world where human can still decide to act upon their own benefits, causing conflict and he can not accept that.
If Naruto can't accept Obito vision, then fine, because Obito can not accept Naruto vision. Obito might picture himself as the Hokage, who leads people to happiness by working together, but that is a dream, it can not happen, it contradict natural law. Absolute equality can never create happiness, because there is limited resource. Peace on the surface is just cover for nasty stuff below it. Obito vision that he is the Hokage because that is what he will experience when he goes inside the Infinite Tsukuyomi, to remind himself that he can not loose control, that he must finish what he started, so that he and everybody left alive, and everybody after him can experience happiness.
That is the correct philosophical answer. Not the "I want to be Hokage" nonsense, you won't want to be Hokage if everybody you care about is dead, but of course, due to Naruto plot armor, they're still alive, his friends still give him "hope", unlimited hope because they will never die.
Hope is a child answer and Obito, Madara, Nagato should know that when faced with the talk no jutsu. One can only have hope if there's still something left to give him hope, if they lost everything, there is no hope. Naruto never lost anything, that's the ridiculous point.
Because Naruto can never give out any convincing answer or argument, that's what makes the talk no jutsu bad. Because the "villain", are all heroes in their own stories, Kishimoto portrait those "villains" as heroes that gave up on the perfect ideology, but that is wrong, because the ideology itself is flawed.
If there's such a thing as a perfect ideology, maybe Kishimoto should consider publish to some nation in the world.
Boruto ep 65 made me love Naruto again