Really missing the, "Stay safe, stay legal" sign off! Great video as always Dev, and looking forward to folks making their attempts to adapt and overcome.
It also begs the question if hardened spring steel wafers wouldnt solve the problem too. I could see .015 O1 tool steel wafers hardened to say 55Rc completely stopping the punch tool.
Years ago after seeing Bill's video I ordered some of those blockers for a couple of Master Pro series puck locks I have. It actually came with one installed and when I tried to add more I immediately ran into a clearance issue. I'd have to take it apart and double check but from memory I think adding just one additional blocker plate bound up the cylinder.
In my experience 3 is the absolute maximum number of wafers you can fit before you impede the function of the lock (more than that tends to cause the cylinder and actuator to bind) and 2 wafers are usually sufficient to prevent or at least greatly complicate attempts to use the bypass driver.
00:41 🛠 Installing multiple security wafers on an American Lock seriously hinders bypass attempts. 05:26 🚫 Adding just two blocking wafers significantly hampers the bypass process, causing tool jamming and hindering movement. 06:20 🛡 Robust installations of American Locks with recessed or shrouded mountings can prevent various bypass attacks. 07:30 🤝 Open invitation for experimentation: Offer to send security wafers to anyone interested in creating and testing custom bypass tools for American Locks.
Well, I have a very James Bond solution... modify one of those laser rust removers to simply ablate away the wafer, leaving no shards to get in the way. Granted, it would probably cost over $10K, be very bulky, noisy, and require 220V power near the lock, but you have to admit it would be the coolest bypass tool ever.
The big problem is that the punching tool actually leaves shards up in the lock. You probably would have a better chance if you had some sort of drill that doesn't damage the pins or an additional tool to pull the sharp edges back out. Or maybe combine the bypass tool and the turning tool into a single thing, single punch and turn.
I agree; I think you’d want to make a drill jig with a tube that extends into the keyway, maybe going back almost to the wafer, then you could drill precisely through it. Similar to how the “Tulip Shape Lock Drill Jig CDJ-2” guides the drill bit for that drilling application. Ideally you’d find the right drill bit size to only have to drill once, so it’d have to be small enough to fit through the keyway & jig, but still big enough to let the bypass tool fit through. If that wasn’t possible you might need two jigs for slightly different drill locations. That’s probably more likely since you basically want to make a rectangle hole in the wafer for the bypass hook to fit through.
I was literally ordering these wafers as you posted this video 😂I guess this gets into threat modeling. If I’m using an American padlock for a gym locker, chances that a random criminal would have a version of the American bypass hook? Extremely small but arguably non-zero. Chances random criminal would also have the wafer breaker kit AND want to spend the time and noise to use it? Effectively zero. Obviously the dynamic changes if the lock is guarding something more valuable and less attended-to than a gym locker 😊🏋💪
Anyone else want Deviant asmr content where he just sits in front of a fireplace, fiddles with tools, and talks to us about bitters and dismantling the system?
My first thought would be to make the tool out of a harder steel and add geometry to the lower edge so it acts like a deburring knife. This would clear the back side of the wafer as you pull back, then you can proceed with the bypass once a path is cleared.
Man I really miss Bill's channel. I was hoping since he and LPL live close together that they'd still do the occasional co-lab but it hasn't happened yet.
I had a thought about making a bypass tool out of a plastic ejector pin . Seems like the best starting point anyone could diy at home if they want to take on Deviant's challenge.
Have you tried a wafer breaker with directional ribs on it? Kinda like rasp teeth, you could tap it home, then pull it out and bring the debris with it.
So the penetrator is getting in, just can't get the turning implement in. Would there be a way to integrate the turning implement into the penetrator (perhaps a notch down one flat side of it, allowing some sort of manipulator to worked down? Would probably need a far larger penetrator for that, though. One thought: was the lock able to turn normally after all that wafer-damage? Could you get the key in and unlock it normally? If it's just a case of making a bigger hole, a bigger hole can be made with a bigger penetrator. Maybe even something with a serrated or file-like edge, so the damaged wafers can be worked at.
I was really curious how the lock felt with the key after that. While I don't think it'd be a huge issue, I'm wondering if it feels like it's been futzed with, maybe with a stiff open or something, and if that might be a thing you'd need to worry about if you tried this bypass and failed. I guess you disassembling it with no mention of it is all the answer I need though, since that was kinda necessary to pull the core 😅
i’m not necessarily saying that covert companions bypass tool is better than peterson’s…. But it does have a slightly narrower tip thats also has a slightly different tapper that works much smother and feels stronger on high spring tension locks than peterson bypass in non shielded locks. I wonder if it’d be just enough difference to work?
Is there a difference between the different colored handles on the bypass tools? I know for Petersons picks, the color usually denotes the thickness of the pick. Is it the same for the bypass tools as well? I've only ever seen the black handle ones before.
I wonder if maybe taking a stone or file, and putting a slight chiseling on the edge of the breaker so that it cleaves more and shoves less would change things. No dremels, you'd heat damage the metal but a ceramic or diamond hone might do it, and I'm only talking like maybe 10-15º, maybe 10 minutes of work if you go REALLY slowly. Maybe put the cutting edge on the same side as the flag on the bypass tool has to go so that what gets pushed out by the spreader pushes away from the path of the flag? Might be worth a shot.
What if somebody made a Lock Blocking Wafer out of higher quality steel that is hardened and nitrided for extra hardness? Maybe have the thickness of 2 or 3 normal Blocking Wafers.
That’s was a challange for another company which you had to pick a lock to win a prize. I tried the bypass driver and it didn’t work. I asked one of the guys associated with the challange and he said that there were 3 wafers. I only heard about there being 3 wafers in it after. I tried to break the wafers but was unsuccessful. Now it makes sense
Cool test! I want to know why you had to use the spike two ways before inserting the bypass tool (flag)? Could you make a punch the same profile as the flag and then try it? Also, would the flag itself work if it wasn´t so big? It would probably need the same radius for turning the proper parts, but does it need the entire depth coverage? Try filing one down and go with the same approach. It would be really interesting to see.
If there is enough room for two or three blocking wafers, then the wafers should be made of thicker material. Material that is 2x or 3x as thick will much stronger than simply stacking wafers. And, like any other security measure, even one wafer is going to defeat anyone who doesn't have the specialized tool. Anytime you can make a lock that requires a specialized tool you dramatically decrease the number of people who can get into your lock.
I kind of wonder if you hit it with some r184 to freeze the wafers first if it wouldn’t break up more when you try to punch it. I may have to pickup one of those punch tools to start playing around with. Any chance you will start carrying some wafer packs on the site that shall not be named?
Little update. I froze a wafer outside of the lock and tried to punch it with a screwdriver. It still deformed pretty bad and it didn’t seem to help getting that shrapnel to break off.
On a side note hitting the lock with a quick blast of refrigerant seemed to make the lock easier to pick. It could be that the small pins react to the cold more quickly and shrink making the tolerances looser or maybe I’m just getting better at picking American Locks. I would be really interested if anyone else can reproduce this.
This seems like technique could be developed to clear the shards out. I wonder if a spring pin could be added to the rear of the core to block the bypass tool. Punching through the side of a spring pin seems very unlikely.
It feels like if you could modify a bypass tool to fold the swarf and metal over, you'd be able to stick a slightly sanded down tool in and turn the actuator. Maybe if you could take some of those bent bypass tools and kink one over in a C shape for the purpose?
All of my American locks have been switched over to the 6 pin APTC14 core. I measured the stack up on the core to the bore in the lock body, and found that .010' shim will fit with no issues. This is on older American 700 and 5260 series locks.
If someone makes the bypass tool out of stronger steel and a burr cutting inner edge that would be dope, maybe even a bit of texture on the face to try and help with metal chip removal?
oooo or alternatively tacking a deburring tool on the end of the peterson bypass! Haha I might take machining next semester so I can give it a try@@DeviantOllam
So we just need to figure out the thickest blocking wafer we can reliably fit to a lock and it will still work properly, then have them stamped and heat treated out of a nice tough hardenable steel that will basically render this exploit worthless.
I'm not your man for the remainder of this year but if any curious persons with a piece of O-2 and the kind of attitude to make a keyway broach, I'd watch Episode, The Second.
At first I was wondering if a blocking wafer out of hardened steel would work. It seems like there is a bit of space in there, so you could even make it a bit thicker. Sure, it wouldn't prevent busting through it, but it would make it a lot harder and more time consuming. But if it works with a couple of the standard wafers 🤷♂
Thoughts: The deformed metal folded back by the punch seems to be in the way. If you can punch from the other side, might you have a clear shot? A tiny end mill might clear a path without folding metal into the bypass tool's path. Chips and dust would have to be cleaned up to keep the lock working well and entry covert.
I was thinking something similar. On the penetrator tool what if a small notch was cut in a few millimeters back from the tip. Acting as sort of a barb so once the tool is through the plate, it could be slightly rotated to grab the deformed metal and forcefully bend it in the opposite direction. It would take some finessing but it might give just enough space for the bypass driver to function.
Really missing the, "Stay safe, stay legal" sign off! Great video as always Dev, and looking forward to folks making their attempts to adapt and overcome.
It also begs the question if hardened spring steel wafers wouldnt solve the problem too. I could see .015 O1 tool steel wafers hardened to say 55Rc completely stopping the punch tool.
I am interested as well,but wondering at what point would the steel become too brittle?
Years ago after seeing Bill's video I ordered some of those blockers for a couple of Master Pro series puck locks I have. It actually came with one installed and when I tried to add more I immediately ran into a clearance issue. I'd have to take it apart and double check but from memory I think adding just one additional blocker plate bound up the cylinder.
yeah, fortunately i've found that most American locks have enough wiggle room to make adding two or three OK
In my experience 3 is the absolute maximum number of wafers you can fit before you impede the function of the lock (more than that tends to cause the cylinder and actuator to bind) and 2 wafers are usually sufficient to prevent or at least greatly complicate attempts to use the bypass driver.
00:41 🛠 Installing multiple security wafers on an American Lock seriously hinders bypass attempts.
05:26 🚫 Adding just two blocking wafers significantly hampers the bypass process, causing tool jamming and hindering movement.
06:20 🛡 Robust installations of American Locks with recessed or shrouded mountings can prevent various bypass attacks.
07:30 🤝 Open invitation for experimentation: Offer to send security wafers to anyone interested in creating and testing custom bypass tools for American Locks.
Great video, and happy to see a the cheap solution to an otherwise fine lock still works.
The OG, best there ever was, Bosnian Bill
Well, I have a very James Bond solution... modify one of those laser rust removers to simply ablate away the wafer, leaving no shards to get in the way. Granted, it would probably cost over $10K, be very bulky, noisy, and require 220V power near the lock, but you have to admit it would be the coolest bypass tool ever.
that is amazing and I wish i could see it in action
Using a laser worth 5 figures to defeat a lock that sells for the low 2 figures would certainly be a stereotypical Hollywood scene.
That’s nice calling the video an entry. So fitting for the subject matter.
The big problem is that the punching tool actually leaves shards up in the lock. You probably would have a better chance if you had some sort of drill that doesn't damage the pins or an additional tool to pull the sharp edges back out. Or maybe combine the bypass tool and the turning tool into a single thing, single punch and turn.
I agree; I think you’d want to make a drill jig with a tube that extends into the keyway, maybe going back almost to the wafer, then you could drill precisely through it. Similar to how the “Tulip Shape Lock Drill Jig CDJ-2” guides the drill bit for that drilling application. Ideally you’d find the right drill bit size to only have to drill once, so it’d have to be small enough to fit through the keyway & jig, but still big enough to let the bypass tool fit through. If that wasn’t possible you might need two jigs for slightly different drill locations. That’s probably more likely since you basically want to make a rectangle hole in the wafer for the bypass hook to fit through.
I was literally ordering these wafers as you posted this video 😂I guess this gets into threat modeling. If I’m using an American padlock for a gym locker, chances that a random criminal would have a version of the American bypass hook? Extremely small but arguably non-zero. Chances random criminal would also have the wafer breaker kit AND want to spend the time and noise to use it? Effectively zero. Obviously the dynamic changes if the lock is guarding something more valuable and less attended-to than a gym locker 😊🏋💪
yeah, to me this is like a "perimeter fence" or "storage unit" kind of risk metric
also... woot for like minds thinking similarly =)
And for the cost... Why not.
Anyone else want Deviant asmr content where he just sits in front of a fireplace, fiddles with tools, and talks to us about bitters and dismantling the system?
fantastic!! thank you Dev for sharing this information. Hope your Holiday went well.
thanks! we are flying back tomorrow from visiting family and yeah it was nice =)
My first thought would be to make the tool out of a harder steel and add geometry to the lower edge so it acts like a deburring knife. This would clear the back side of the wafer as you pull back, then you can proceed with the bypass once a path is cleared.
I never tried it but from all that listening about these wafers over time, I feel like I'd be able to get it quickly...^^
Man I really miss Bill's channel. I was hoping since he and LPL live close together that they'd still do the occasional co-lab but it hasn't happened yet.
I had a thought about making a bypass tool out of a plastic ejector pin . Seems like the best starting point anyone could diy at home if they want to take on Deviant's challenge.
Have you tried a wafer breaker with directional ribs on it? Kinda like rasp teeth, you could tap it home, then pull it out and bring the debris with it.
So the penetrator is getting in, just can't get the turning implement in. Would there be a way to integrate the turning implement into the penetrator (perhaps a notch down one flat side of it, allowing some sort of manipulator to worked down? Would probably need a far larger penetrator for that, though.
One thought: was the lock able to turn normally after all that wafer-damage? Could you get the key in and unlock it normally?
If it's just a case of making a bigger hole, a bigger hole can be made with a bigger penetrator. Maybe even something with a serrated or file-like edge, so the damaged wafers can be worked at.
Maybe make the bypass tool like a warded key with a notch to get around the burr?
I was really curious how the lock felt with the key after that. While I don't think it'd be a huge issue, I'm wondering if it feels like it's been futzed with, maybe with a stiff open or something, and if that might be a thing you'd need to worry about if you tried this bypass and failed.
I guess you disassembling it with no mention of it is all the answer I need though, since that was kinda necessary to pull the core 😅
i’m not necessarily saying that covert companions bypass tool is better than peterson’s…. But it does have a slightly narrower tip thats also has a slightly different tapper that works much smother and feels stronger on high spring tension locks than peterson bypass in non shielded locks. I wonder if it’d be just enough difference to work?
Is there a difference between the different colored handles on the bypass tools? I know for Petersons picks, the color usually denotes the thickness of the pick. Is it the same for the bypass tools as well? I've only ever seen the black handle ones before.
I wonder if maybe taking a stone or file, and putting a slight chiseling on the edge of the breaker so that it cleaves more and shoves less would change things. No dremels, you'd heat damage the metal but a ceramic or diamond hone might do it, and I'm only talking like maybe 10-15º, maybe 10 minutes of work if you go REALLY slowly. Maybe put the cutting edge on the same side as the flag on the bypass tool has to go so that what gets pushed out by the spreader pushes away from the path of the flag? Might be worth a shot.
What if somebody made a Lock Blocking Wafer out of higher quality steel that is hardened and nitrided for extra hardness? Maybe have the thickness of 2 or 3 normal Blocking Wafers.
That’s was a challange for another company which you had to pick a lock to win a prize. I tried the bypass driver and it didn’t work. I asked one of the guys associated with the challange and he said that there were 3 wafers. I only heard about there being 3 wafers in it after. I tried to break the wafers but was unsuccessful. Now it makes sense
wow it's wild that they thought of that!
Cool test! I want to know why you had to use the spike two ways before inserting the bypass tool (flag)? Could you make a punch the same profile as the flag and then try it? Also, would the flag itself work if it wasn´t so big? It would probably need the same radius for turning the proper parts, but does it need the entire depth coverage? Try filing one down and go with the same approach. It would be really interesting to see.
If there is enough room for two or three blocking wafers, then the wafers should be made of thicker material. Material that is 2x or 3x as thick will much stronger than simply stacking wafers. And, like any other security measure, even one wafer is going to defeat anyone who doesn't have the specialized tool. Anytime you can make a lock that requires a specialized tool you dramatically decrease the number of people who can get into your lock.
I kind of wonder if you hit it with some r184 to freeze the wafers first if it wouldn’t break up more when you try to punch it. I may have to pickup one of those punch tools to start playing around with. Any chance you will start carrying some wafer packs on the site that shall not be named?
Little update. I froze a wafer outside of the lock and tried to punch it with a screwdriver. It still deformed pretty bad and it didn’t seem to help getting that shrapnel to break off.
On a side note hitting the lock with a quick blast of refrigerant seemed to make the lock easier to pick. It could be that the small pins react to the cold more quickly and shrink making the tolerances looser or maybe I’m just getting better at picking American Locks. I would be really interested if anyone else can reproduce this.
This seems like technique could be developed to clear the shards out.
I wonder if a spring pin could be added to the rear of the core to block the bypass tool. Punching through the side of a spring pin seems very unlikely.
Was the lock still easy to operate using a key, or did it get completely jammed?
I'm curious about if a nail gun could break the back pieces enough to use a bypass 🤔
It feels like if you could modify a bypass tool to fold the swarf and metal over, you'd be able to stick a slightly sanded down tool in and turn the actuator. Maybe if you could take some of those bent bypass tools and kink one over in a C shape for the purpose?
maybe? i'd love to see someone try.
TWO OF THEM!!!!
Probably a stupid question, but why not just turn the bypass tool the other way to go around all that junk that keeps holding it up?
Please let me know how!!^^
Three fit comfortably, maybe for a gate or shed... How about a lishi vid?
Nobody is going to mention the cute kittens? Well, I will. “Look, cute kittens!”
could make a disk that has the protrusion as part of the design, making this bypass essentially impossible
Nice I think you'd need more of a drill bit rather than the beaker tool
Night guard: "Come in!"
I think 3 will be the number!
Well damn. I was wrong! Only 2 was enough to be effective!
It does beg the question how many will physically fit and have the lock still function.
All of my American locks have been switched over to the 6 pin APTC14 core.
I measured the stack up on the core to the bore in the lock body, and found that .010' shim will fit with no issues. This is on older American 700 and 5260 series locks.
If someone makes the bypass tool out of stronger steel and a burr cutting inner edge that would be dope, maybe even a bit of texture on the face to try and help with metal chip removal?
yeah, possibly. i'd love to see folk try.
oooo or alternatively tacking a deburring tool on the end of the peterson bypass! Haha I might take machining next semester so I can give it a try@@DeviantOllam
Bump ALL the things!
I’ll find or measure specs for the wafer breaker I made it might solve this problem.
So we just need to figure out the thickest blocking wafer we can reliably fit to a lock and it will still work properly, then have them stamped and heat treated out of a nice tough hardenable steel that will basically render this exploit worthless.
I'm not your man for the remainder of this year but if any curious persons with a piece of O-2 and the kind of attitude to make a keyway broach, I'd watch Episode, The Second.
Two of them :)
A sharper punch tool might get less deformation.
At first I was wondering if a blocking wafer out of hardened steel would work. It seems like there is a bit of space in there, so you could even make it a bit thicker.
Sure, it wouldn't prevent busting through it, but it would make it a lot harder and more time consuming.
But if it works with a couple of the standard wafers 🤷♂
Screwdriver and fireplug go brrrrrrrrrr
hah, that's an upcoming video i'm thinking about doing! ;-D
Yay
Thoughts:
The deformed metal folded back by the punch seems to be in the way. If you can punch from the other side, might you have a clear shot?
A tiny end mill might clear a path without folding metal into the bypass tool's path. Chips and dust would have to be cleaned up to keep the lock working well and entry covert.
I was thinking something similar. On the penetrator tool what if a small notch was cut in a few millimeters back from the tip. Acting as sort of a barb so once the tool is through the plate, it could be slightly rotated to grab the deformed metal and forcefully bend it in the opposite direction. It would take some finessing but it might give just enough space for the bypass driver to function.
Hey Deviant I Dmd u
Try a quick drill, then punch?
Double the protection, quadruple your chances of not getting your lock bypassed.